UFC Champ Alex Volkanovski on Retirement, His Next Fight & Life Outside the Ring

Alex Volkanovski walked into Mark's studio years ago with no idea what his brand was. Now he's a former UFC featherweight world champion, part-owner of a fight gear company, building a media presence through Cooking with Volk, and defending his belt at 38 — by choice, not necessity. This is a conversation about identity, purpose, and what happens when elite athletes build something that lasts beyond the sport. Volk is as calculated in business as he is in the octagon, and this conversation proves it. For more content like this: Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ Executive Producer: Samuel Morgan Head of Production: Jonah Mclachlan See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Well, welcome to Straight Talk, mate. About time we did it again.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  I know, it's good, it's good. Plenty's happened since then.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  Mate, I remember a very long time ago, you came into our studios at, in the George Street in the city. And this is like, this is pre-COVID, I think.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  And you came in, Tim Yizou came in, and you weren't the world champion at that stage. And I remember it wasn't far off that Tim Yizou became world champion, you became world champion. And I think I interviewed a couple of other guys during that month, but you two actually maintained the position. And you've come a long way. Here we are at Freestyle MMA. This is an amazing gym. We're going to, guys, the boys have got some footage, we're going to show it around during the podcast, et cetera. Tell me about how important is it for someone like you to be fully responsible for the outcomes of all the hard yards they put into fighting

• 0:56Speaker 00

  for the day they retire? And I'm not saying you retire, but for the day they retire, what are you doing? Why are you doing all these businesses? What, what is that for?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I guess the obvious answer is, yeah, we ain't going to fight forever, right? We all know that. And I think a lot of athletes are starting to understand, well, everyone's, it's that, that's a conversation everyone's always having. And I mean, I think even the teams are having now, the, the, the clubs, even the, say, rugby league, rugby league is going to talk about it. I think it's, everyone's pretty vocal about what are you doing outside of your sport? Because it was a big problem for athletes to just be athletes and then not knowing what they're doing after, once the sport was done. And you've seen a lot of people really struggle with that. So it's something that's always been talked about. I'll be honest, it wasn't something that I took serious enough till not that long ago. And I will bring in that I still remember, and in that case, like what I'm talking about when I say that is,

• 1:46Speaker 01

  I still remember just being a fighter. I remember you asking me on that podcast that you were probably talking about.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Would have been maybe six, seven years ago.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Even, maybe, yeah, probably not even that long ago. I can't, can't remember what it was.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  Just before COVID, I think.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  Okay, there you go. And I remember you asking, you talked to me about, you know, what my brand was. And I'll be honest, at that time, it was like, I'm just used to, used to talking about fights and whatnot. And obviously with you, we want to talk business and I didn't have a clue. I really felt, you could even say

• 2:21Speaker 01

  lots of words, like I didn't know what to say. You asked me what was, what, you know, what's your brand? And I didn't know what that even really meant. I bring this up sometimes even when I'm talking to people. I remember being asked by Mark Boris, like, what's my brand? I had no idea. I remember not knowing. And then now for me to be in this position where I am setting myself up and doing so much outside of fighting. Where a lot of people, you know, sometimes going to be like, oh, you're still fighting? I see you do so much more outside of fighting.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. Especially your, especially your socials.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So there's so much that I go, I'm lucky and I've got a great team behind me. But, I mean, it needs to be done. I'm lucky enough that I've been successful enough in my career to look after myself and then build, you know, you could say build a bit of your empire. And financially was, I was quite clever, you know, I didn't spend too much money on myself and I was always investing and doing the right things with that. So I can, I can say, do I exactly need things outside? I think you, you definitely do, because you want to keep building that empire and building your brand and whatnot. And have something to, you know, that income to keep coming. But I'm in a great position just because of the sport.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  But the fact that I do have so much outside of the sport that'll, you know, keep me, you know, get goals, tasks that I want, and then obviously look after my family and just be successful in so many other ways.

• 3:44Speaker 00

  That's a very interesting point you make too, by the way, because you know, you and I, we watch, observe lots of sports people. They identify themselves as either rugby league player or a rugby union player or a UFC fighter or an MMA fighter. If you say to them, what's your brand? They say, look, I'm a fighter. That's who I identify with. But that has a limited life. Like you're not going to be doing it at 50 or 40 or 60. You know, maybe 40, maybe in your case, 40, you might, well, those freaks will get there. But generally speaking, no. And when the sport stops, they lose themselves. They feel like they're no longer got any purpose because they've always identified themselves as being the fighter. Now all of a sudden they're not a fighter and they're lost. This is really important for you. Who influenced you this? Was it your missus, like your family or was it Joe Lopez?

• 4:29Speaker 00

  I mean, who influenced you to think this way? Was it just Alex?

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Um, I think it was, like I said, it's out there. The, you know, people are talking about it. You know, it is conversations that I will have with, with you, with people that are business savvy as well. You're going to have these conversations and everyone's always going to bring it up, you know, you know, what are you doing outside of fighting? You know, you can't do this forever. Even though them conversations were happening before I cared like about that. As I said, I still didn't know. People were still bringing that up, but I was just tunnel vision. Like I'm, I'm going to be the best and that's all I'm focusing on. And you were saying a lot of people lose themselves after their fighting career. And that's 100% you said. You said in all, all athletes, not just fighting. But I felt like I was a little lost during the title reign as well.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Because I was like looking at, I'm not going to be champion for, forever. And I would get a bit uneasy in between camps when I didn't have a goal set or a fighter. I felt like there wasn't purpose, you know, even though I was still champ. I just felt like I had a lot more purpose when I was in camp and I had something to drive for because I was in the game for a while. And then I started thinking, you know, how, how long do I have this? What am I going to do after? If I'm already getting a little uneasy in between camps, like how am I going to be later? And it started really getting to me.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Does that get into your head a bit?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  It did. So there was a time that, that it did get into my head quite a bit. And that was before the Islam, the second fight.

• 5:55Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  So that's even, you know, I was, I would always take that fight. A lot of people ask me, you know, why'd you, you know, take that short notice fight? It was 11 day notice, but I was like, let's do it. That's just who I am anyway. But before then, you know, I was coming off surgery, I was drinking a lot. You know, wasn't in the gym as much, just like, you know, the, the head was spinning. It was a time where the head was spinning. And then this, the fight ended up, like, you know, coming towards me. I'm like, this will snap me out of it. Let's do it. So I ended up doing, like, you know, when you hear people saying coming off the couch, you know, fighting like a little off the couch. I was coming off the couch. Yeah, like I was, this is the, the, the least I've ever trained. And I'm, I'm always back in the gym. That's what's made me the fighter I am.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Because I was, you know, I'd win the world title and I'm back in the gym the next.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Super fit.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yes. And I'm just always back in the gym and I'm, I'm, a lot of people have a break and then on camp starts, they start picking it up. No, I was, I was doing more hours outside of camp than I was in camp. But then that started to get difficult when you're in the game so long, repetition and all that, even though I did so well for so long. That started to get a little bit more difficult. And then other little problems and then just, you know, couldn't train because of surgeries and then head was spinning. Then I was drinking, then didn't feel like, you know, I fitted in the gym enough at that time, you know, just, again, the head was spinning. So I took the fight, got knocked out. And then wanted to be like, oh, look, man, I don't know if you've seen the footage straight after that. I ended up, I was there a bit vocal about it and I'm talking, you know, please keep me busy, you know, I don't do well when I'm not fighting.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  And, you know, so a lot of people were, oh, wow, this is a big problem. And you could say it could have been a big problem, but it was a bit of a learning lesson. I ended up fighting three months later after a big knockout, probably shouldn't have done that. But again, that's just who I am. So I, I did that and then I decided, you know, after that second knockout, let's have a break. I'm going to, you know, look after my head and have a proper break. And it wasn't till probably then, even though I was still doing the cooking with Volk and I was doing things, I was, you know, just, I, I enjoyed it. But, you know, I didn't really understand exactly. It was more just, I had a bit of fun with it. It wasn't really my brand or like, you know, I don't know if I use the word my brand, but I don't know if that was really

• 8:10Speaker 01

  something that, that it is now anyway, right? It wasn't. And then, but I had the break and I said to myself, you know what, I'm going to have family, myself, and then I'll train around that. It's always been everything around training schedule. But now it was about family, myself, and then I'll train around, around that in my schedule. So I did a lot of that and I started doing a lot more cooking with Volk. I even started, you know, you know, playing golf here and there and just doing, I had more time. Yes, you know, like with friends and, and just got to be myself again. So like, that's, that's where I really started to understand. I started being able to spend a lot more time on the cooking stuff.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  We went, we end up getting it's, you know, at that time it wasn't its own channel, but we're a bit more full time, well, not full time, but we did a lot more of it. We're in front of the camera a lot more, got a lot more comfortable. And then even though I had them two losses, you know, I started getting a lot more love from that, me taking the fights. And not only that, I started putting myself out there a lot more. And that's when it all started to fall into place, just me having the, the big break. And then for me, as I said, I did struggle in between fights and all that. And I was like, you know, what am I going to do? Now I don't have them questions. I know what I'm going to do.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Because you've got the ready setup.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  I, I'm, it's not just set up. It's like, I know, now I'm in a position where it's like, I like, you know, do, you know, I don't need to fight, but I want to because of this and this and this, you know? And I'm like weighing my options and I'm blessed to be in a position where I can do that, right? Not many fighters are in a position where they can have that choice. A lot of people thinking I'm like doing it because I need to. No, it's just as a business, as now that I do think of being successful and I guess you could say I still look at it as a business. I'm never going to make that type of money, you know, at a level, it's, you can, obviously.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  But not in one, one in one moment.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Especially with something that I'm so good at and there's something that, you know, me, you know, fighting and that, even though it's very hard to go through camps, it's very clear. It's a very clear path to a gold mine every time you, you fight and every time you step in there. And then while I'm doing that, you're building your platform and then as a business, you're building your brand and everything goes up with that. And, but yeah, so they're the, they're the options that you're going to weigh. But I don't know where I was going with that. I just, I guess I was just saying that that break was where I really found myself because I did have that fighter's identity. And I like bringing it up because I want people to understand that. You know, if you want to be the best in the world, you want to be an elite athlete or, you know, you want to, you know, be pound for pound champion or you want to be a defending champ.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  You might have to have a bit of a fighter's identity. You might have to lose yourself in that, in that chase to, to that, you know what I mean? Like you, you might need to be all in and there's going to be a lot of sacrifices. And some of those sacrifices in my case was a bit of myself.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  And I did lose a bit of myself, but I'm thankful for that now. Because that's what made me the fighter, put me in a position I am. And I end up learning that you can, you can get it back. You can find yourself again. And that's why I wanna chat about that and I'm glad I, I can be vocal about that. Because yeah, I was uncertain. You've seen that, you've seen me been very vulnerable. But now I'm very comfortable with who I am outside of fighting. I don't need fighting. Um, and yeah, and I like so for other people that are gonna be in this position, other athletes. I wanna know that, yeah, look, you might have that tunnel version, you might feel like you're losing yourself, but you will find yourself again. Chasing that dream, just know if that's what you're chasing. Know that will come, but it might come with time, but if you can be a little bit clever through that process and, and.

• 11:47Speaker 01

  You know, again, obviously you're a full-time fighter, but at the same time. Have that awareness that we can't do this forever and then maybe slowly set things up. You know, that, that, that'll, that'll be good too.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  So we, explain where we are physically right now, like in, in terms of New South Wales.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Where, where are we right now?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  Uh, well, Paul Kimbler, well, as Joe would say, North Wingdang, North Wingdang, cause we still love the, the Wingdang. Um, that's where the gym just always been, you know, the small gym, the little raw, small gym that we had in Wingdang. And now we've obviously got a facility, a world-class facility with, you know, like a massive weight gym, massive, uh, you know, space upstairs. Um, they've even got a pit, like, because a lot of the jiu-jitsu now are, are doing, uh. I don't know if you've seen the, the walls, like a lot of them are doing that in their competitions now. So we've even got them just got the cages set up, just everything, extra rooms for, for jiu-jitsu and, and whatnot. And, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, pretty lucky to have, uh, this, even though having that little raw gym is.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  You know, we learned so much there, you know, it was a little more intimate and, and raw and like, I felt like that's.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  It's spit on the walls.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean, yeah, but I mean, that's where like, uh, we built our character, like our, our, the character we have in this gym, like that hardworking. You know, as you say, this is a blue collar town, you've got the steelworks right there. And that's why you're saying it's not too busy right now in the afternoon, everyone comes in after work. Um, but you know, it's just, uh, we're hard workers here, we get stuck into it. We know we've got that, uh, that mindset of. You know, if you, you wanna be the best, you've got to work hard, you know what I mean? You've just got to work harder than everyone else. It's sometimes, you know, obviously not the most business savvy way approach. Cause people are gonna be like, oh, you know, look at this, look at that. But in our sport, I think ninety-nine percent of the time, if you wanna be successful, and you wanna be at the top. It's gonna be you just doing more than everyone else.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  And I think in all business, actually, all business, right? That makes sense. There's probably different ways of doing that. Ours is probably, we get to, um, do more than everyone else, but I guess it's just in the gym. Where you's just gotta do, you know, where.

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Well, we do it in the office, so it's no big deal.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Hey? Yeah, yeah, I guess, but in, I guess dabbling in, doing more than everyone else. With so many different things, I guess we just gotta do it just pretty much in the gym, if that makes sense.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  And you don't even point at Joe, Joe Lopez, Joe was, was, is still.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  This is, uh, Joe, Joe's gym, Joe, it's always been freestyle, uh, Joe's gym.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Freestyle MMA.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  MMA, yeah.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  And, um, and, but, but Joe's been, you've been under Joe's, I don't know, mentorship, training for. How many years?

• 14:19Speaker 01

  First, first day I ever stepped in the gym was, uh, the one in Wingdang and.

• 14:22Speaker 00

  With Joe Lopez?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Joe Lopez.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  You're serious?

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, man, it's, uh, how long ago was that? That would have been maybe two thousand and fourteen, I think. Let's say maybe two thousand and, actually, I'm thinking maybe even a little bit earlier. Because I come in, I was still playing football and I came, the first time I came to the gym might have been like two thousand and twelve, two thousand and thirteen. But that was just preseason training, just cause I wanted to keep fit in between the.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  You were like a hundred kilos or something.

• 14:46Speaker 01

  I'm ninety-seven KG. Yeah, so I wanted to keep fit and, um, that's, uh, sort of how that sort of started.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  A little outside featherweight, UFC.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  In terms of weight.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, quite a, yeah, just a little bit.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  And, and so apart from, you know, having, training fighters down here, you're also training. Blokes and women, I guess, who don't necessarily be fighters, who just wanna learn the skill.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  But you've got kids classes?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  For, for the local, how's it all going?

• 15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, good, good, it's, uh, we're like, yeah, really good numbers, you know, it's, uh, been really good, like especially coming in the, the afternoons. Uh, cause outside of, uh, training now, I usually just doing morning, morning sessions outside of camp.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  You're taking, you're taking classes?

• 15:26Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll do so, yeah, so now, cause I'm in camp, cause I can't train as, uh, much as I used to, right? So, uh, I'm, uh, trying to be in the gym, I lightly drill and I help coach just to keep my head in the game. But I think if I do what I was doing five years ago, it would be quite detrimental. So like, I've got it. Physically, exactly. So, uh, I'm, uh, yeah, helping in the gym, so I've been able to come in the afternoon quite a bit and. Uh, the numbers, uh, that are coming in, uh, you know, pretty impressive. We obviously have the space, we used to try and just squeeze it in that little gym, uh, but it's good to have the space, but it's doing really well.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  When you're coaching, let's say you're coaching someone in grappling, do you start to learn something yourself? You go, wow, hang on, I remember that, but, uh, it's not something you would learn when you are training as a grappler. But when you're coaching as a grappler.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  What do you learn?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, that's where I feel like I learned the most at the moment.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  Really?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yes, when, uh, when we're coaching, yeah, well, we're not, not just that, it's like. Yeah, well, it is, so like, that's what I learned when I started teaching people, like, I would do things instinctively and it just comes very natural to me. Uh, but I wouldn't even know I'm doing it. So I'll see someone doing it and I'll know they're doing it wrong and then I'll, uh. Oh, no, no, you need your hip here and this and like, I'll explain the mechanics of it, I'm like, oh, that's why I do that. Yeah, cause now they can't do this, they can't.

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Articulate.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I get to articulate and I get to go into the finer details that a lot of people just oversee. They just go there as like, they, they look at the technique as a whole and they, they miss all the important details in there. There's so many important details and until you break it down like that. Um, that's, that's when you really get a good understanding of it.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  Stepping it out?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Stepping it out, telling them, it's like, yeah, even just here, exactly, you're like, oh, no, your hips, see how your hip's here? So you can't, you, you physically can't turn that way because of that and your mechanics won't work. So you need to be here and now when you post on him, now he can't go here and you know, and I can really explain. Um, in a way where this is here and the purpose of why it's there. And then not only I'm teaching them how that's gonna work for this technique that we're doing. But now they've got an understanding of how effective a post is, how effective this little movement is and why I need to be here. So that I, I try and make sure that, so I'm learning while I'm doing that, but I try and make them realise that. It's not just, don't just learn a technique and just do the technique, understand the fundamentals, understand the mechanics, the concepts of what it is.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  And then now you can make twenty, twenty of your own techniques purely because of the mechanics that I just showed you. There's, uh, you know, I can, uh, I usually have a hand here to post on this hip. Cause if I use an elbow, I can use anything, it's gonna have the same purpose. I might not be able to get a hand there cause I need a post here, but I can use a, a knee to stop them from, you know, building themselves up and whatnot. So me, uh, being able to explain that, you know, not, I wouldn't even say reminds me, it just explains to me. Like properly, it's like, even though I'm naturally doing it, it's like now I know, now it's a tool in the belt, like I can literally. If I'm stuck, I'll be like, ah, you know, I can, it's a tool I can use. Or if I need to, as if I am coaching or helping in the corner, I can, you know, articulate that a bit better too.

• 18:23Speaker 00

  How's the striking going? So cause you know, you, in terms of teaching here, do you teach striking as well?

• 18:28Speaker 01

  I teach a bit of everything, yeah.

• 18:29Speaker 00

  A bit of everything.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like to, to help, obviously we've got all the, the guys like Joe, Joe's a head coach. Who do, uh, a lot of the class and we've got a lot of the, you know, athletes, you have Kobe, uh, Casey, a lot of the.

• 18:41Speaker 00

  Kobe thickness?

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Kobe thickness, Casey Murdoch, uh, and a couple of other guys, we've got a lot of guys, uh, good younger fighters as well.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  I heard Izzy was here last week.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  Izzy was here, um, yeah, Ruffy, Ruffy's fighting, uh, this weekend.

• 18:52Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  So it's in LA, yeah, uh, so LA, uh, they have UFC three thirty-one. I'm actually going there for the press conference.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Today?

• 19:01Speaker 01

  I leave straight after the show.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Which is the reason we're not gonna get to the farm, but we might get to the farm on another day.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Cause I do wanna talk about cooking with Bob.

• 19:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Um, unbelievably successful, um, you being a wog, um, bit of macaroni, you know, a little bit of greek in it, I mean, both. Um, we love our food.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  And, and by the way, men like to cook.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:19Speaker 00

  We like to, from the beginning until the end.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  I've actually seen stuff where you actually, actually kill the animal.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  And, and, um, butcher it.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  In, in a proper way.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  And then prep it and then cook it. How's cooking involved going?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's going really well. It's, uh, something, again, I, I, as I said earlier, I'm trying to be, I'm a full-time fighter still. I always try and tell myself that.

• 19:41Speaker 00

  But fighters gotta eat.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Fighters gotta eat, fighters gotta eat. And then, uh, not only that, now that I've told you that, uh, I've had to pull that schedule back, it has opened the doors up. So now, uh. I obviously wanna be effective my time. If, you know, did I have the time five years ago to be doing what I'm doing now? No, I would have rather been, been in the gym, um, perfecting my craft. And a craft, so that's a, why, I guess I didn't, I could dabble in and I did. But uh, I couldn't let it be what it is now, but now I do have the time for it.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  It's a business now too.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  It is a business. So now I get to, you know, with that time I got, wanna make sure I've got the family time and all that, but not only that.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I wanna be successful for my family. A part of my job is obviously the fighting, but now I can't fight the hours that I used to. So I can free up some hours for cooking with Volk, uh, for the, the farm stuff, you know, the venture side of things and. Um, you know, just, just my b- brand, I can, I can pay a bit more attention to that. So it's um, it's yeah, it's been, it's been great. It's been going really good. There's opportunities all over the place that I've had to be like. I'm still fighting, like, wait a second, you know, so it's, it's good, it's a. For what we're, for the time that we can only spend on it and for how quickly it's risen and, uh, you know, and just what it's doing. It's uh, pretty impressive for the little time we can actually give it.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Now, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna challenge you on the floor because I mean, I, I'll get my ass kicked, but, but what I am gonna challenge on, I'm gonna get one of the MasterChef or, uh, guys to come along and judge.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  You and me, do a sort of like, yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Okay, nice, nice.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Who's got the best taste?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  No, I'll, we'll be biased for ourselves, but we'll all find out what they actually think. Well, I'll, I'll get one of the MasterChef, um, one of the MasterChef judges to come and do it for us. And we'll get in for, we'll do it, try and do it before Christmas if you, if.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Let me know who it is, I wanna do my best.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  I wanna know exactly what they like.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  We'll give you two names and we, and you can choose whichever one.

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Okay. No, it's just gonna be like, oh, their style, what's their style, is like, you know?

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, we know, I think we should do that, that'd be fun.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Cause if we had a, you know, if we had someone from the, you know, you could imagine, right? If you've got like a. Someone that really knows what they're talking about, but then you've got someone that's just gonna enjoy it from the gym, right?

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  So I'm cooking two different meals. You know what I mean? Like there, there's gonna be two pretty different, uh, styles.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  You like to win, don't you?

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'm just saying, you know, really like this.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  I can see it, like you like to win.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  They say, yeah, cause uh, yeah, cause there's definitely a lot, a lot, that'll be fun. I would, I would enjoy that.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  That'd be fun, I, I.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  We'll do it on the farm, I reckon.

• 22:06Speaker 00

  No, no, go to a farm, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, and.

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Over the, over the charcoal.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  Can I bring my meat though? Like, uh.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, yeah, that's fair.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  I'll choose my butcher.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  I mean, I trust your butcher, can I use it too?

• 22:16Speaker 00

  Oh, you can say it to someone. So, one of the things I've been really impressed by is that you've managed to, um, leverage other parts of your fighting brand.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:26Speaker 00

  In this business called Engage. Tell us about that.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the Engage, I've actually been a part of Engage since they started. So it, it's pretty cool, cause we've been here, we've engaged, like I met, uh, Ash, the owner of Engage, like we met in Thailand. Um, before we were in the UFC, this was, I can't even remember when it was, maybe two thousand and fourteen or something. And um, or two thousand and fifteen or sixteen, I couldn't tell you, sorry. Not good with my dates, but a long time ago. And uh, very early in my career. And this is where Izzy, we, Izzy was then, well before UFC, Dan Hooker, Brad Riddell, uh, Kai Kara friends. Like we all met and were all a part of Engage back then, like, so he's sort of like, I wanted to, you know, do a fight brand and bring you guys.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Cause you could see us in the gym, seeing like, you know, hard working and, uh, you know, we were all training together, it's like, you know, wouldn't mind sponsoring us. So that's sort of where it started. And then now, um, yeah, we're all, uh, you know, a few of us, Izzy and myself, you know, part owners of it. And it's uh, yeah, really, it's doing well.

• 23:28Speaker 00

  When, when, when, is there a website? Like, is it engaged.com?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  Engage, Engage, yeah. Engage I N D dot com.

• 23:33Speaker 00

  That's great, you're leveraging off everything. So when you're, you're bringing an audience in here, and you've got a big audience anyway, but you bring an audience into the gyms. Um, you're leveraging just about everything. Um, uh, and we, we talked about, uh, um.

• 23:45Speaker 01

  I will, I will ask you, like, that's a good question, cause I'm gonna ask you a question here, sorry. So with the websites and all that, like, obviously websites have been so big and they still are, but there's so many ways to get there now, right? Like, so maybe you can just click a button on, on Instagram and all that. So what's more, what do you, what would you say is more important? For, the website needs to be where they go to, right?

• 24:06Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 24:07Speaker 01

  But uh, say if I was gonna push right then, right, we're talking about, should I definitely know the Gage dot com? Or should I just be like, go on Instagram and go through there, cause that's, you can shop straight on there. What would be easier?

• 24:19Speaker 00

  Cause there's different audiences.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Different audience, okay, yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  Different age groups look at, uh, uh, a different audience.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  And for our audience.

• 24:25Speaker 00

  Your audience would be, right? Okay, well, who are your audiences? Give me some age.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  So yeah, so I'm, uh, okay, there you go. Probably from about sixteen to like, you know, fourteen.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Well, they're gonna go to Instagram.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Or, or something like that. Um, and then the older audience will go to Instagram, uh, older audience will go to your website. But your older, your, your older audience will watch this podcast, this will go on YouTube too. So you want them to go to Engage.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Engage, I N D, exactly. So this is, that's, that's it, exactly. There's little things that I'm still learning.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, but what's, what's really amazing and quite interesting about you is that, I mean, not only do you apply that thinking process to your fighting game. Cause you know, you go out and get the best, you get Craig Jones in here, and I, no doubt he's been here with your current prep. Um, you, you get Craig Jones, you, you used to go off to, um, uh, Auckland City Gym, you used to go to Thailand for a while. Used to go, you know, cause you can get really good opponents there, guys to try, try with. Um, you've always been someone who wants to learn about what is, what is learned from the best and what is the best for you.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Now you're trying to do the same thing for business. If you can apply that same process. And you, then you put in behind it a lot of hard work, it's a lot of hard work.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  Take a little bit of risk.

• 25:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:31Speaker 00

  There's risk involved. Um, build a good brand around it, you'll be successful, which is what you are. You are successful now.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Um, I am usually, again, I try, as I say, I'm a fighter first. So I try not to be as hands-on with the business, but I can't help myself as well. So I'm like, uh.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  I think you're an obsessed, I don't think you're a fighter first, I think you're an obsessed person, obsessed with the best ideas.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the thing is, I wouldn't be where I am if I wasn't like that as well. So I can be, uh, you know, sometimes when I am with, with guys, obviously I did the, the Volk bar and all that. I can be a bit of a handful as well, because I'm like, ah, you know, this ain't how I want it, you know, like, I can be on to them and.

• 26:04Speaker 00

  But you've gotta be that way.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  But I mean, they're, they're, they're usually worded up before that happens anyway, they're usually like, oh, look. When we do this, you know, Alex is gonna be on your ass about everything, you know what I mean? But I guess that's a good way to be. But I mean, yeah, so that's, that's a good question, so. Again, I should have, uh, looked into that, knowing that the audience is, you know.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  They're different.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  It would be an audience here, so I should have had that website ready.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  You should know what my audience is.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go get all of them now, now I was gonna.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  You should know what my audience is, this is gonna go on my podcast, it's gonna go on my Spotify and it's gonna go on my YouTube channel. And my audience also ranges from those age groups.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:40Speaker 00

  We have a big female, uh, side of our audience as well, and then, and, you know, they're equally interested to hear what people like Alex Volkanovsky's doing. They are absolutely interested in what you're doing, which is one of the reasons why it's so exciting for us to be able to do this. Talk to me about CMBT Combat.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:53Speaker 00

  So, most people don't realise it spells combat, but.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:56Speaker 00

  What, what is CMBT? Cause you've had that for a long time.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they've, they're, they're, yeah, so I was with them since they started as well, actually. So, uh, yeah, protein, obviously supplements and that, and then I'm doing the Volk bar with them now, so we've, I've been with them for.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  You only launched it, haven't you, just recently?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I launched that, um, yeah, a couple of months back, a few months back. So, uh, now it's all through, uh, seven elevens, um.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  So you've got shelf space, great.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and they're gonna be another one, like one announcement just yet, but, um. But yeah, it's going good. We're still, uh, working again. I'm very picky, I just said how, how I'm very picky. Uh, here's a good question, cause I would, I'd love to pick your brains. So, uh, we've got the bar. Um, I won't get into too much detail, but uh. Obviously it's doing well and it is how it is. I want to improve it, cause that's just how I am.

• 27:42Speaker 00

  In terms of taste, quality?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Yes, I think I can, I, I think I can, uh, still do better.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Like, would that be more detrimental to something that's already there?

• 27:55Speaker 00

  No, I think.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Or can you use it as a rebrand, as like, uh, you know, you're not rebranding, but you're like. Cause obviously you did the announcement, you did your release and we did real, we ended up being like the, I think in the first week, um, we were the highest. Yeah, we sold the most protein bars from seven eleven, uh, ever and stuff like that. So we did, we did well with that. But I mean, uh, I want to do that, is that somewhere is like, oh, now you're going against then what you've already had?

• 28:21Speaker 00

  No, I don't think so.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Is it now is like, you know, you did the release, done well, and you get to almost do another release?

• 28:26Speaker 00

  Too comfort, too, too, being too comfortable. I mean, I think.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Okay, there you go.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  I, I think you, you, if, if Alex Volkanovsky says, this is what we were doing, but where there's now, now our more improved bar. There's no, I, I, I, you know, not straight away, but you might wait to sometime next year. And the new ingredient that we're adding to is, I don't know, makes up not creative, whatever the words are.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Creatine is a craze at the moment, you know, people go and ask for that.

• 28:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's the most researched supplement in history.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 00

  And.

• 28:55Speaker 01

  It's very effective. It's uh, something that, uh, like I need to, to use, I'm using right now. Yep, yeah, it's obviously good for the brain, it's good for the muscles, everything.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  So it's very, very effective.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Very important for women.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Cause women, everyone thinks, oh, this is all about men. Creatine is, is more important for women, especially, uh, uh, older women, as women get into their fifties and sixties, like post-menopause, really important. So if you were saying, you know, I sat down with the scientists at, uh, at, you know, at where we make this stuff and we sat down with the food scientists, we sat down with all the. Biological, biology scientists and what we've now come up with a new improved version of what we're doing. There's nothing wrong with a new iteration of what you've already released. I think it's actually a good idea. And people will buy, more likely to buy it or more likely to keep buying it.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:36Speaker 00

  Because right now, what stands out from your bar relative to everybody else's, other than the fact that it's Alex Volkanovsky behind it, okay?

• 29:43Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  If you go out and say, look, we've, our bar's been successful, but one of the things we've noticed that's missing. In everybody else's protein bar is blah.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  And we've now put it in, all of a sudden you're unique.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 29:58Speaker 00

  It's not just about Alex Volkanovsky, it's what Alex Volkanovsky's gone and curated for the buyer of the bar.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:04Speaker 00

  And but keeping the same name.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for sure.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  He might call him Combat Two or something.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  It's just, you know, it's just, uh, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a weird one, cause look, we've been talking completely. I'm talking about the book right now. It's good, I guess it's. So, but I mean, for me, again, I'm, I'm quite picky with how I wanna, cause uh, all natural, that's the thing with it's all natural ingredients. A lot of people are always gonna be like, oh, it's got this protein and all that. There's so many ways that they can just tick the boxes and say it's this and say it's that. You know, we try to not cheat it at all, you know what I mean? So it's a.

• 30:34Speaker 00

  It's clean.

• 30:34Speaker 01

  Ed, yeah, exactly. So that's why it's, um, but then you can go there as like, all right, we can maybe go this one, is, is it gonna be a little bit too artificial? They're saying it's not. But is, you know what I mean? And then now I'm like, yeah, but now I'm going against, cause I, one thing that I, that works for me, you know, this is something that's a big part of my brand as well. I believe and I don't know if it's, you should be saying it like this, talking about yourself like this, but I believe in, um, this is, cause I, I wanna be honest with, with my, my audience as well.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  And yourself.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, yeah, exactly. So like, I, I don't, yeah, I feel like, uh, with my, my audience, the people with cooking with Volk, they can relate to me. They're like, oh mate, he's just like one of us. He's like, you know, and I feel like that's always been very good and I, and I wanna keep it that way. So I wanna, I don't want to bullshit around it, you know, type thing, you know? So that's why it's a tricky one for me where even though you can go down these routes and they are, it's still, you know, all natural, but I'm sitting there going, I still tastes, I feel like there's a bit more of a maybe artificial taste and that we need to taste. I wanna get more natural uh, flavors in there.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  What are you using the sugar? What, what's your sweetener?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Uh, monk fruit, is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a, but yeah, like it's just, we're going, you know, I wanna, I wanna look into, into things a little more and just see, see where we end up. But I mean, I think.

• 31:54Speaker 00

  What does Jordy think of it?

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I'm not sure. I haven't, haven't chatted to him about that.

• 31:57Speaker 00

  Really?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  I mean, I haven't, no.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  He's someone you should talk to.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  He should be, he should have talked to Jordy.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. I'm actually gonna see him, uh, in L A. So he's over there for, for Ruffey. So he's a smart man. So we're actually, you know, right in camp now and um, he's got, yeah, we're fine tuning everything with the diet this time.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, how you going with the diet? Like say.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Very good. We're ahead of schedule. Head of schedule, yes. Head of schedule and.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  Does that weigh you a little bit? Just a little bit?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  No, no, this is, this is good. Like, cause I'm following the, cause I've always had that little bit of freedom. I'm obviously disciplined. And, uh, but I'll have the freedom where I will eat my barbecue, so I love my cooking. But, oh, all right, I'll just fast in the morning. I won't eat much around it and you know, I'll do it that way. But then it's too hard to really calculate how much you're doing. So I'll always eventually make weight, but, um, but you know, maybe do it that little bit tough where this time we're like, no, we can't. We wanna, we wanna do this one hundred percent and go like, you know, when we talk about the one percenters, you know, uh, we always say that, let's go the zero point one percenters. Like let's really, really, that's what, uh, Jordy's been using, the zero point one.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  Uh, by the way, you just said Jordan Solomon is your, um.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  Fight dietitian, yes, yeah.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  And for a lot of other people too. Like he's the best.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Very, very, very good, very good. So he's, uh, and he's worked with us for so long. So he's, uh, well, he's got so much, uh, data on, on me as well. So like, it's so easy for, for us to, you know, find what, what works or even improve if we want, but this time.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Scientifically too.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Everything's done with data.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  So, and the good thing about scientifically and then knowing you're knowing your athlete as well. So that's, um, a big part. So that's something that really, really works. So a lot of people are just gonna go just pure, oh, sign, the science says this is this, and they've never met a fighter. They don't know the training schedule. They don't, you know what I mean? They're like, oh, no, you know, science say you need to do this. They're going, yeah, but this guy trains four times a day.

• 33:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  This guy's got to cut weight. This guy's got to do this. This guy's got to do that. Um, you know, and yeah, so it's a, you gotta, you gotta know your athlete and he's, he knows his athletes. So it's, um, yeah, it's, it's incredible. I've, I've been, when I say fine tune, and I mean to the gram with everything for like ten, where it's gonna be ten weeks out from the fight, um, which I've never really done that. So now yeah, we're really.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  You feel strong?

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's like, uh, it's not easy. Like you sit there, you know, I love my food, you know, again, and I, I'm, I'm more than happy to fast and not eat for hours and go to training a little bit tired and all that, just so I can, you know.

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Have a good meal.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  I'll have a good meal at night time, though. So it's all good. So I can punish myself to do that where this time was a nut.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Everything's like, have to eat at this time, have to do this, have to do that. And, uh, it's been good though. It's been, it's been really good. The, the diet's come and uh, come along really, really nicely. The weight's coming off. We're in a really good position. So I'm gonna be probably the leanest I've ever been. Uh, the lightest I've ever come into a fight week.

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Without a crash.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  Probably the easiest, easiest cut as well. Yeah, we've had a crash, cause we obviously very well.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  And let's talk about Masa.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Okay, let's do it.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  So you, you've been through these processes before where you fought for someone who's an expert in, let's call it wrestling grappling, jujitsu, that type of thing, floor, put it that way. And you acquitted yourself brilliantly. You've done it not just once, you've done it a couple of times. We're talking about a tag earlier on, um, you know, you, you, you know, the grapplers.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Um, this guy's not great up, stand up. I mean, he's good, but he's not the best.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Been more unorthodox.

• 35:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, uh, what's your, without telling it, you know, too many trades, so he goes, what are you thinking about this? Cause there's been a lot of talk, a lot of talk between the two of you. You've been doing a lot of talk.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Like I can talk about it like, uh, you know, not too detailed, but the overall, we know he's gonna want to take down. He's, well, like, uh, in saying that, that's gonna be there, you know, but it, but what I've been saying, I've been quite vocal about is like, he's gonna have to, he's gonna be forced to stand because you are gonna take me down. You try and take me down. It's gonna be hard, even if you do on bounce, straight back up. It's exhausting doing that, you know, for them to just wanna keep taking down. For me, I can anti wrestle all day. I can literally, that's something that, uh, I don't really get too tired. I can do this all day. Um, and then he's gonna be forced to stand.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  So that's, um, and that's pretty obvious. I'm gonna be, uh, in his face, looking to land the, the big shots and and, uh, he's gonna be forced to panic shoot. That's not gonna work and he's gonna be forced to fight. And, uh, which, to be honest, I've always said this for most of my opponents. I believe everyone's best chance of beating me is to land a, a lucky shot anyway. Uh, when I say lucky shot, that's not right.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  It wasn't a nice shot, but he got you on the, he got you on the.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  He got, he, he closed a distance on you.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, he did a good job. So like, I just mean landing that, that shot. Like, uh, can they beat me for twenty five minutes? It can be very hard. Obviously Islam can say he did, you know, that first fight was very close. You know, controversial, but, uh, you know.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  They made it was close.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it was a, it was a, you know, that's someone, you know, moving up a division, but in my division, I believe there's no one that can be better than me for twenty five minutes. Can they knock me out? Yes. This is the fighting game and I've always said that. And I believe even with him who's never knocked anyone out in the UFC, I don't think.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  He's always, no, he's always gone to this.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's always been a decision and he's really good at winning. But even for him, his best bet would be to knock me out. I truly do believe that. And, uh, cause, uh, I just don't believe he's gonna beat me for twenty five minutes. And again, undefeated, um, this wrestler grappling, uh, style that um, has taken over the UFC. A lot of people struggle with that. Um, but I believe I haven't. I've got that anti wrestling sort of formula that.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  What does it mean anti wrestling?

• 37:39Speaker 01

  I just mean like.

• 37:40Speaker 00

  You can defeat a wrestler.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Well, exactly. So I mean, cause a lot of people, it, it used to be funny where you would go to gyms, people would be like, oh, I'm firefighting, wrestling. They'll just do wrestling. I'm like, oh, let's do more wrestling. And half their wrestling hours they're doing is them shooting takedowns, which they're never gonna do. It's like, no, let's just focus on keeping the fight where you wanna be. Focus on where that they might get you and then how do we build ourselves back to get to where you want to be.

• 38:05Speaker 00

  So get you back up.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Yes, get back to the feet, you know, to stop the takedowns. Let's just spend all them hours there. It's like this guy's like, you don't wanna be trying to out wrestle this guy. Like you, it's funny. You still see people like, oh, I'm gonna go to wrestling school, cause I'm fighting a Daghestani wrestler. It's like, this guy's gonna smoke you no matter how much hours you, you know, like you need to just perfect, you know, uh, you know, maybe the range, um, the, you know, stopping the defenses. You could limit that stuff. Like I can nail it down to ten different things and just try and perfect those. Why try and perfect fifty things when forty, forty of them are gonna be useless to you. Don't waste your time on that.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  So like, uh, for me, it's a, I, I, I actually can wrestle. I think I can out wrestle him if I want it anyway. But, um.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  How do you study something like that? I mean, what do you, do you watch all their fights?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you watch their fights, um.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  Do you sit there with Joe, watching them?

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, not really. The, I, I, I trust the coaches to do a bit of the research and then they tell me and I've watched enough fights um, to understand and, um, then yeah. So like, I've, yeah, I've watched these fights. So I know, I know his game. Um, and then I trust the positions that my, my coaches are telling me. And then we're just, you know, and it isn't oh, this was successful. Like, you know, you are gonna find out, oh, this, this guy was successful on him when he did this and when he done that. It's like, okay, cool. These are the positions he was successful. This is what he likes to go to. And then, uh, so we will weigh the options of this has worked against him, but what works when, when someone's doing that to me. So like, when I'm in them positions, I like to do this, this, this, this, this. And, uh, that suits my style, suits my body type.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  I'm very comfortable here, you know, and then I know I can build up and I can force him to this position where now I know he doesn't really have much options there. So like, just, you know, things like, like that, like just approaching it, uh, very calculated, you know, I'm like, uh, no wasted movements, no wasted time and energy in, in things that you just weigh, which I see people do all the time.

• 40:06Speaker 00

  You, you become so experienced with this sort of stuff.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  I mean, there's a challenge because you've done lots, a lot of people challenge you or you defended a lot, defending your titles, um.

• 40:16Speaker 00

  I mean, as a person loves the fight game, um, will you be trying to, uh, uh, keep it in the middle of the ring or in the middle of the octagon?

• 40:23Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, like, uh, I'm.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  If you're up in stand up.

• 40:26Speaker 01

  So like, he's gonna wanna press and press and it's easier to trap people and go for takedowns on the cage.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Um, for me, I will be comfortable anywhere. I mean, him trying to shoot on me, as I said, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'll be bringing the fight more to him. Like he's gonna, there, there'll be times it will be staying in the middle and then even if we're at the cage, it, it won't really matter, but he's.

• 40:50Speaker 01

  Like I, I, I'm inviting, you wanna shoot, try and shoot on me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm in a position where I can really put hands.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  That's a good brains game.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, exactly right. It's like, I'm.

• 40:59Speaker 00

  Would you say it to him? Would you say that?

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. Like, I've been vocal, it's like on.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  No, but in the, in the, in the fight, would you say, come on, shoot?

• 41:05Speaker 01

  A hundred, well, yeah. I'm, I'm gonna be not, I don't even have to say it. It's like, he's gonna feel that. I'm not worried about it. I'm in front of him. All I'm worried about is like landing these ones. You know what I mean? It's like, uh, I'm like, you wanna shoot? I'll worry about that when, when it's there. It's like going, all I'm focused on is what I'm, I'm gonna do, do here. And, um, that's the beauty of it, cause you do get a lot of people that went through the anti-wrestling, as I said. They're so worried about the takedown that they forget about the striking. Cause they're like, you know, they're so focused on, oh, I can't let him grab me. And then all of a sudden, they're not pulling the trigger and they get taken down anyway. That ain't the, the fact of me. It's like, oh, I don't care if you take me down. I don't care if you shoot. I'll worry about that then. I'll fight till you're in, then I'll worry about that. And do what I plan on doing.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Show you that that ain't gonna work. That's only gonna tire you out. Then you're gonna panic. Then you're gonna panic punch, panic shoot. Then you're gonna get real tired and that's when I'm gonna start. And that's why I believe I can get to finish. And I know I sound very confident and cocky, but I believe that's how this fight's gonna be. Even me at thirty-eight years old. I'm thirty-eight in less than a couple of weeks. I'm gonna be thirty-eight at the fight. Um, you know, people aren't defending their belt at thirty-eight years old.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Maybe in the heavyweights, but definitely.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Heavyweights, yes. In our divisions, it doesn't happen. So I broke the record of, of winning a title fight at that age, at thirty, over thirty-five. Uh, but defending champs, it's like, it's just not really normal. And I not only plan on defending and winning. I plan on probably making this look like one of my best performances I've ever done.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  And is that saying, is that because, again, this is a lot of people like, oh, everyone's gonna talk like that. I'm not saying I'm in my prime. It's not because I'm in my prime, that's why this is gonna happen.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Physical prime?

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, physical prime. Stylistically, you know, with my fighter queue. Um, and the way I'm gonna approach this fight and the way he will approach this fight. I believe the formula of that is, is, you know, I feel like I'm destined to really. Put on one of the best performances I've ever done. Like after this, people are gonna, that's the best, best we've seen him. Like, he's still got another ten years in him. I was like, I don't, but that's what I believe it could look like.

• 43:14Speaker 00

  It's funny, you know, uh, it's funny.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I sound cocky, but I'm, you know, I'm just quietly, it's not quiet now, is it? I just, you couldn't say quietly confident after that, but, uh, I'm, I'm confident.

• 43:23Speaker 00

  Definitely confident, I'll tell you.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  I'm definitely confident.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  What about your legs? Like, what about his legs? Cause you see a lot of these, um, really good grapplers, they tend to, um. Have one leg out in front all the time when they, when they wanna box, when they wanna throw punches. Um, will you be looking at his legs?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  I'll be doing every, like, everything. A lot of people, yeah, a lot of people are worried about leg kicks, oh, because they can grab him and all that. Grab it. Try and grab it. No more, no problem. You know what I mean? Like, that's, for me, I'm gonna fight my fight. If that leg's there, I'll kick it. If that head's there, I'm gonna jab it. Um, you know, I mean, I'm a, if that head's there, I'm gonna put a two straight in there, even if I know you, you wanna fire that shot. Um, I'm committing to them shots and then I'll worry about the takedown afterwards. So that's, uh, sort of how it is. So I'll play, I'll just fight my fight and, uh, that's where I feel like I can do my best work.

• 44:06Speaker 00

  I remember when, in the Perth fight, um, with Islam, um. Towards the end of one of the rounds, I don't remember which round it was, um, he sort of had your back.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  That he was sort of, he was trying to, and he was trying to put a choke on you. You were smiling. I mean, you, you just kept moving his arms around. It was towards the end of the round, but probably someone told it, but. But you were, and you were sort of, you, you, you, you kept fighting his arms.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 00

  It was an arm fight, a hand fight, and, uh, you were smiling.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause I was.

• 44:32Speaker 00

  That would have fucked him up. They, they would have been going, oh my God, what's the, what's the deal with this guy?

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. So this is, when you, when you have that approach, a lot of times, you know, when we're in there. You might talk, cause I'm not the type to trash talk or anything, but you will let them know it's like, I'm sweet. Like, I'll do this all day. Like, let them know, cause I know. We're all getting tired. We're all tired. We all feel the fatigue. Who deals with it better? I deal with it fine. I'm gonna let them know. I'm dealing with it sweet. I'm like, how are you dealing with it? And when they see that, it's like. He looks fresh. I'm blown. Like, this ain't good. It's like, oh man, this isn't good. And, uh, cause, uh. So that approach, again, I wasn't trying to be cocky to, to Islam, but I wanted to let him know. I was like, I'll do this all day. Like, I'm sweet. And I wanted to, even straight after that, like, I'm like.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Going like, oh, you said that you were so, maybe in a, in twenty seconds and now you're hanging on for dear life. Cause, um. He was, wasn't really going for the choke as much. He was more, I'm just gonna keep him here. Uh, which was, did a great job, won the round for it and you could say won the fight because of it. So, you know, fair play to him.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  Um, there'd been another twenty seconds in the last round, I reckon you would have got him, but.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, but look at that last round. You could see that, uh, I had him mentally defeated, right? So it's, uh, and that was a lot of me just pushing that pace, going at him the whole time. Letting him know that. I was comfortable everywhere, everywhere. There was not one. Position that I was freaking out in at all. Like, I was, uh, I, I accepted every single position. I, I usually change the word, you know, the, the quote, comfortable in there, uncomfortable. I've changed it to accept the uncomfortable, but I can literally say, in that fight. I felt comfortable in them, uh, well, in them positions.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  But I just, uh, but again, I, I try not to train my brain or to train people around me, the brain, to think that. What we do at some point is gonna be comfortable. So like, do you get what I mean? Like, I know the, they're not saying it'll be comfortable. I know that's just the quote. But I think, uh, you know, if you believe that you can go in this training room and train with us and that the training is gonna eventually be comfortable. Like you're, you're not gonna get that fatigue. You're gonna be so comfortable that you're not fatigued. You're kidding yourself.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  You're not.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  So let's not set ourselves up for failure. Let's just know that we will accept the uncomfortable. And once you understand is that I'm just, I'm gonna accept whatever problems come my way, that's gonna be a lot easier to deal with, cause we accept it. Uh, but if you're waiting till you get comfortable to, to problem solve, it's like going, oh, then, you know. When you're in that guillotine with Vortega, it's like, you ain't comfortable. The lights are dimming. I mean, you know, this, uh.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  I'm about to pass out.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  I just gotta accept that, oh, this ain't good, but I'm just gonna try and do this and try and do that. And luckily it paid off. But I mean, if I thought like, uh, you know, if I'm waiting to be comfortable. I mean, you're chasing something, cause the world's gonna throw uncomfortable things at you every single time. But if we can accept them, you'll deal with things much better.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  You're a father of, you're married and a father of four?

• 47:33Speaker 01

  Four girls, four girls, yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 00

  Well done. Um. How much do they motivate you?

• 47:39Speaker 01

  I mean, that's why I do everything. That's why. I, you know, that's, that's, even with a lot of people. Ask me, you know, like, you know, what I fight for and they, they talk about legacy. They wanna bring up legacy and all these things that sound cool. So I don't care about any of that. I really don't. I just wanna be successful with my family and that's it. You know, I wanna be able to provide.

• 48:01Speaker 00

  Why, why that? Is it, is there something you?

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, just like anyone, everyone's got a, their, you know, the, the, whatever, their career path, you know, their, their choice of their career. And they wanna be successful, obviously to, you know, be able, for me, it's just, I wanna be successful. I can look after my family and put, put us in a, in a good position. That's always been my driving factor, always. Um, do I have traits that? You know, I wanna be a perfectionist and, you know, you know, I, I am gonna have them traits, so that's gonna, gonna be there as well. But my main driving factor is my family and it always has been, it always will be. And like even now, like, uh, again, all these decisions, like, do I need to fight? You know, again, I wanna, you know, you wanna protect the brain. You wanna, you know, you, I wanna be able to protect the body and be able to look after my kids after my career.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  But then their paychecks and like, so you gotta, you know, so you're weighing all these options. So like, uh, and, and that's purely, all these options revolve of. How I can best deal with the future for my family.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Do you ever talk to your daughters about that? Do they sit and say, dad, why, you know, cause they would just see other kids, mum, mum and dad, what they do?

• 49:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  Do they ever say to your dad, why are you fighting? Like, what is that about?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Not really. I think it's.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess, uh, you know, it's, it's probably, it's probably, well, yeah, it's probably. You know, they're at an age now where it's probably cool as well and they don't know the depth of, um, fighting and, you know, and I guess. Um, you know, they don't understand, like, you know, again, when you have them, uh, them vulnerable points. Or when you are concussion, you've got concussions, um, you know, and, you know, they're not gonna really understand the depths of, of things. Um, you know, so maybe later they might be like, but I'm, by the time they understand, I'm, I'm pretty sure I'll be done anyway. And I'm confident I'll be in a pretty good position and still have the head on my shoulders.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Um, so that's, that's why I've been saying, I've been taking each fight as it goes. I even said, and I'm happy to say that, a lot of people are like, oh, he's talking about. He doesn't know. Like, if I take a heap of damage in this next fight, I'm done. I'm like, I'm not there to take a heap of damage. Like, I'm. I'm weighing them options, a big part of my, my options. And, um, and I've said that. And I said that in my last fight. So a lot of people, when they hear that, they're like, oh, that doesn't sound good. I go, what do you mean? I said that last fight. And I'm here.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, cause my job is to control it, don't get damaged.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And like, does that mean I'm not in the gym busting my ass and I'm, I'm half assing it? No, it's just, I'm a realist. I understand my situation and where I am and I wanna deal with things in a calculated approach and I've always been like that. And that is, uh, how I have to. I need to understand that I don't want, you know, of a, you know, that we've had bad concussions. We've had that and this, that serious stuff and I need to take it serious. Um, and if, you know, if I go into a fight and I ever, you know, I take damage like I have in some other fights, okay, we're done. You know what I mean? Uh, but if not, well, maybe we'll keep going. We'll maybe take that risk one more time for that paycheck. For, you know what I mean? For the, cause the business side, you know what I mean? That's, that's how I am. A lot of people are like, oh, he's doing it just for the paycheck.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Obviously.

• 51:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, like, people wanna act like it's a bad thing. It was like, oh, it's always been about that. I told you, my main driving factor has been for my family, for, for my wife and my girls. And, uh, you know, if I can get a good paycheck, that's gonna put us in a better position.

• 51:22Speaker 00

  For the future.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  For the future, where I can even, not only, um, cause again, I'm always gonna, I'm, I'm not someone that's just gonna be able to do nothing. I'm always gonna be quite busy, but I'm gonna be able to spend better quality time with my family when my sport, when, when I'm done with this sport. Because of those extra paychecks, oh, let's do it. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's how I am. So I'm weighing all the options and, um, that's a big part of it. But again, I said that in the last fight, I didn't take too much damage. I look great and here we are. So you can still see that I'm gonna be driven and I'm gonna train hard and I'm gonna do what I need to do every single time. Like it's, it like, uh, yeah, people can look at what I'm saying and be like, oh, that's someone that's half in it.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  I was like, um, this is just how I talk. I, I have a calculated approach always. Every single time with everything I do, um, and that's just, that's just where we're at with it.

• 52:18Speaker 00

  And how are you getting on with Dana?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Good. Yeah, we're sweet. I'm pretty easy champ to get along with, you know, I'm a pretty easy guy and I don't ask for too much.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  Well, you're great for him.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? So.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  Defending, defending, defending.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so he's not gonna have too much problems in me.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  Like, like, that's, like, he, he would be very happy with it. But does he, do, do you have, does he ring you up or do you have?

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Um, like, oh, no, like, yeah, we'll, we'll keep in touch. Like, I'll, uh, you know, sometimes, you know, cause I've known for taking the short notice fights. I would hear there's some things I'll hit him up and like, I remember if there's anyone, I'm, I'm your guy. He goes, you're a legend. I love it. So, uh, he's, yeah, so he appreciates what we do. Obviously, after that, after he found out I was fighting, um, Islam on 11 days of notice, he, he knew that for me, in my position, pound for pound, number one, a rematch that should have been done properly. Um, a champion, just a person in my position would not do that.

• 53:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:10Speaker 01

  So he's just like, he had to just sit there and go, mate, thank you for saving the day. Like, you know, this, we're in a sport where athletes just don't do this. I think, uh, UFC, you know, is a sport where they actually do, which is pretty crazy.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Most people don't realise, but there are obligations being contracted to UFC. And for example, after this, you're off to LA to do a press conference.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:32Speaker 00

  In the middle of your camp.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:34Speaker 00

  Just explain what that is. What, like, what happens? And how's work? Cause this is about the professionalism in your game.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yes. So what I mean, it's a, it's a part of it, right? As you said, the fight game, it's still a business and like, uh, for us. But not only that, obviously, as a company, UFC, it's a business. They need to promote their fight. Um, they wanna make sure, you know, now even though they've got, you know, paramount, the deals that they've, they've done. They wanna live up to, to them contracts too. They wanna make sure they're getting the viewers that they said they would. It's a business. They wanna get another $7 billion contract, you know what I mean? Like, they, they wanna make sure they're still hitting them numbers and whatnot. So they, they wanna promote the fight. Uh, so we're going there later to do that. For me, again, I'm a.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  That's today, today?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I leave today. So that's, um, I'm in the middle of camp. I'm fighting in a five week, or like just, just over five weeks. So it's deep in camp, but again, I'm very calculated. Um, and I've, I've been training for like 14 weeks. Most people do an eight week camp, but for me, uh, I, I like having longer camps. I like to get a lot of my fight simulators, which are the really hard workouts. I like to do them nice and early. So if I get sick, if I need to do press conferences, if I need to do some business venture, whatever it is, um, I can do that knowing that I've got a lot of weeks in the ba, in the bank. So I've all made like, to be honest, like with this diet I'm doing. Um, and with the training load that I've done for so long,

• 55:03Speaker 01

  this has come at a great time. So I've, I've, uh, put myself in a position where I think this is, me going over there isn't, uh, inconvenience. I think it's more of a convenience for me. I think it will be.

• 55:16Speaker 00

  How many days will you be there?

• 55:17Speaker 01

  I'll be there just a few days.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  So you literally fly there?

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Fly there. I get to watch the fight, roof his funds. I'm gonna corner him as well.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Um, I get, I'm gonna do some training. Joe doesn't want me training too hard. Again, like I've got so many, uh, um, weeks in the bank where it's just like, all right, now we're gonna use this as a little deload. And this deload is where, so straight after, as soon as I come back.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Even I'm allowed to eat the, the, the food on the plane, you know what I mean? Uh, I'm gonna have a little, you know, that freedom, I told you. I'm, I've got my fight dietitian. We're gonna have that little bit more freedom while we're over there. We're gonna make sure the calories are here. But now that I'm not gonna be so training focused, you know, I'm gonna let you have a lighter meal here so we can have two bigger meals here and have that freedom that I haven't had for like eight weeks.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  A little bit of a break.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  A little bit of a break, but my weight's still gonna be where it needs to be. Um, so I get to come back at the back end of that, refresh like, let me get back to this diet, follow it to a T, let's get back in the gym. Someone put me in a fight simulator again. I'm pumped. I'm ready to go.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Tell them what the, tell everyone what a fight simulator is.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  So a fight simulator is just, uh, yeah, like, uh, just the hardest work. So like, uh, you know, fighting's obviously not easy. So we'll do a fight simulator. I'm fighting five rounds. You're gonna do a five, five minute round. Like I said, it's a five, five minute round. Um, fight simulator. So I might do, you know, uh, it might just be shark tanking from fresh guys in all these different positions and literally just 25 minutes of just hard work with fresh guys. Shark tank's probably just the easy way of putting it. So it's just a very, very hard workout. So it's not just you in hidden pads and, you know, going at your own pace. This is just going fresh guys attacking you, putting you in a bad position, you fighting out of them. And, and if you don't,

• 56:59Speaker 01

  you're gonna be tapping, which your ego won't let you. So you're gonna fight, you're gonna push yourself. Um, you don't wanna get taken down cause you know that if I get complacent in these workouts, I'm gonna get complacent in the cage. So you're gonna push yourself and, uh, you're doing 25 minutes against fresh guys. Um, yeah, so it's, it's pretty cool.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  It's interesting cause I, I remember years ago when you went to Abu Dhabi to, um, Fight Island.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:25Speaker 00

  And you defended, I think it was against, um.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  That would have been Max Holloway, the first one.

• 57:29Speaker 00

  Holloway, it might have been Holloway. Yeah. One of the things you couldn't do, which you used to do, was to go off to Auckland, to the city, Auckland City Gym. And then you used to go to Thailand as well.

• 57:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  You couldn't do that at that time for that defence. Um, and you used to always feel, I, I, I still recall that it wasn't a great feeling for you cause it was just, your routine was, you used to go over to Auckland and then you used to go to Thailand. I've done what the order was. And then you'd train here and in.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  I heard about the fight six weeks out as well.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, correct. So, yeah, that was, that was very.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  It was a short notice. Well, that's when I found out. I'd know about everyone else.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  I found out too. It was like six weeks notice. Um, and but now you don't do that and because you've got this new facility here. You don't need to, because you can bring the fighting partners in.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, I mean, in that stage, remember it was deep in COVID.

• 58:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  So we had to have our bubble.

• 58:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  So we're allowed to have our training, uh, partners and we, we could only train, um, in the gym with just those training, training partners. Uh, where now, I still do, I still will go to Thailand, like a nice, and again, nice and early in camp where I can follow a pretty strong schedule, train hard and then, uh, you know, go full, full time over there. I usually take the family as well. Then, uh, that rolls me into like, all right, let's keep that momentum going. So it's, um, I'll, I'll do that early in camp, but then now I'll, I'll bring everyone to us. So I'll bring, you know, Brad Riddell, you know, Frank Hickman, some of the coaches and training partners. I'm lucky enough to have great training partners here, like some of the, the fighters we have. And it's just crazy. We've got like amateurs that like, uh.

• 59:00Speaker 00

  Heck, do you got it?

• 59:01Speaker 01

  Oh man, it's just, you're like, how are they amateur? They should not, they're, they're getting, these guys have like beat up UFC fighters, no problem. And they're having their debut pro fight. It's just crazy to see the talent that comes through.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Young guys?

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, young guys. It's just, uh, yeah, it's insane. So it's just, uh, you get training, uh, partners like that, fresh guys that, you know, young, athletic, they're just gonna go all in, you know what I mean? Uh, and, you know, wanna prove themselves. So they, it's, it's great. So it's good. And then you bring your training partners from overseas and coaches, um, and then, yeah, have the team that you already have here. Just it's, it's incredible. It's great to have, uh, to be in a position where we can do that and have a facility to, to be okay with that.

• 59:41Speaker 00

  Well, mate, congratulations on this gym, what you're doing here. Um, this is a fantastic, a fantastic initiative. It's great for the area, by the way. It's not just you, but it's a great, a great outcome for you and all the other stuff you're doing. And good luck in five and a half odd, odd weeks. Um, thanks for the interview, mate. I really appreciate it.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  No worries. Thank you.

• 1:00:01Speaker 00

  Can't wait to cook off with you.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. So we're gonna get that done. Hundred percent. Thank you.