Johnathan Thurston "I was going down the wrong path": The Decision That Changed My Life

Johnathan Thurston didn't make the Broncos academy as a kid — and that rejection lit a fire that carried him to four Dally M Medals, three Golden Boots, and the most iconic grand final moment in NRL history. But this conversation goes well beyond football. JT breaks down the chess match inside rugby league in a way you've never heard before — body language reads, defensive line manipulation, kicking routines under grand final pressure. And then he talks about the work he's doing now, pulling kids away from the justice system and back into school, one program at a time. This is what a champion actually looks like when the jersey comes off. For more content like this: Subscribe to the Mentored newsletter here: https://the-mentored-platform-pty-ltd.myklpages.com/l/WWJGc5 Join my exclusive Mentored+ community: https://mentored.com.au/become-a-member/ See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Jonathan Thurston. There you go. That's it. That's it. Done everything. Straight up. Welcome to Straight Talk, mate.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Uh, thanks for having me. It's a huge opportunity and I'm extremely grateful.

• 0:11Speaker 00

  I'm just, I'm not sure how my audience is gonna take me sitting here talking to a Queensland legend, but anyway, don't worry.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  I'm one of the good ones.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  For Queensland, you definitely were good. Too bloody good. No, mate, I, I, I appreciate being here. It's, it's, it's an awesome opportunity. Now, I wanna get to know Jonathan Thurston though much better. So, were you actually born in Queensland? Cause a lot of Queenslanders aren't born in Queensland. Were you actually born in Queensland?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I was. I was born in Brisbane.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Uh, spent most of my life there. My mum's a proud Ngungurri woman, uh, and Bidjira.

• 0:46Speaker 00

  Which part of Brisbane is that?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  No, so that's from Mitchell. So that's about eight hours west of Brisbane. So that's where she grew up on a little, uh, Yumba out there. So, um, she's one of thirteen.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Thirteen?

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Yes, one of thirteen. She's the, pretty much the matriarch of the family. Um, her, and then this older brother, she's the second eldest. So, um, grew up in a loving household. Um, my dad's, uh, from New Zealand. I don't tell anyone that.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  Whoa. But he's a New Zealander?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, dad's.

• 1:18Speaker 00

  White guy?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Pakia, yeah, Pakia. Yeah, so he come over in the late seventies, met mum. Uh, around then, had me in eighty-three, uh, grew up in Brisbane, uh, with me other brother. Um.

• 1:30Speaker 00

  There's just two of you?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Yes, well dad's got a daughter from his previous relationship and mum's got a son from her previous relationship.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  And then there's you and your brother.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Me and my brother, yep, Shane.

• 1:39Speaker 00

  But that, but the same mum and dad?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 1:42Speaker 00

  So there's basically four kids, but two of you are biologically, biological brothers and sisters.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, on Blackfellow Talk, we're just brothers and sisters.

• 1:49Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. Same with Blackfellow Talk, mate, we're brothers and sisters. But I just wanna understand the biology. So, so is your brother, uh, your?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Both my brother, older brother and older sister from mum and dad's previous relationship. Yep.

• 2:01Speaker 00

  And your, and your younger brother?

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03Speaker 00

  And, and was everybody sort of talented at sport?

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Uh, they gave it a go, but yeah, I think I was the only one that, um, yeah, loved rugby league. I grew up in a rugby league. Mum's got nine brothers, so they were always playing cricket or footy with me in the backyard. So, um, I had a lot of family living at home as well, so.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Where'd you have school?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Um, so I went to Case Ridge Primary School, um, and then I did year eight and nine at Salisbury State High. And then grade ten, that merged with another school and became Nyanda.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  But you didn't go to one of the sporting schools?

• 2:40Speaker 01

  No, no, no. So through my teenage years, early on, I sort of fell out of love with the game.

• 2:46Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so if you're half decent in Brisbane, uh, you're contracted scholarship to the Broncos. And, um, when I was playing against other teams, they weren't coming to the game in their team outfit. They'll come in their Broncos tracksuit. I'd be looking at them going, thinking to myself, oh, I'm gonna school you this game. Like, I'm gonna put, put you on show. And that was always my mindset because I was like, where's my Broncos tracksuit?

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Were you filthy?

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Oh, that was thirty years ago and I'm still filthy.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  That's why Queensland do so well in state of origin. You just can't, can't let it go, can you?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 3:24Speaker 00

  So I had. Don't score a point on me. I'm gonna get you.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  So I always had a chip on my shoulder when I was playing. Um, and then, yeah, sort of fell out of love because I was like, oh, I'm not gonna go anywhere. Started going down the wrong path as well, making some poor choices.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  With, with the wrong friends?

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I'm still mates with those boys today.

• 3:42Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Um, but I had to make a decision. Uh, my, one of my uncles, uh, used to referee, uh, knew the principal of St Mary's College, which is in Toowoomba. So I got an opportunity to go up there to do year eleven and twelve. And at the start of year ten, um, the interview went well until they seen my report card. They said, you can't come to a school like this with a report card like that. So they said, if you wanna, uh, go back to school in Brisbane, come back at the end of year ten and we'll have another interview and see if you really wanna come. So that was probably the first time I understood the power of my mind. When I put my mind to it, what I wanted to achieve. And I had to make a decision.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Uh, so I sort of removed myself from the boys that I was hanging around, cause we were always disrupted. Uh, got suspended a couple of times. Um, and yeah, moved to the front of the class.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Um, cop the fair bit of shit for it, as you could imagine.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  In the mid nineties. Um, and then, yeah, started to put a little bit of effort into my studies. I was never an A-type student, but, um, yeah, it was probably the first time I seen the inside of a library too. So I got my grades to a satisfactory level.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  What do you put it down to though? The, what, what do you put down to that change in attitude? Like mum, dad, brothers?

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I had a great support network around me, uh, to break that cycle that I was going down. And this was an opportunity to go to a rugby league school, um, to try and, you know, crack it. Like, you know, I threw all my eggs in the one basket. I didn't have a plan B. Um, and yeah, so I was like, all right, if I really wanna have a crack at rugby league, this is the path that I need to go down. So they're the choices that I made and.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  That's pretty mature though for, what, you were sixteen, seventeen or something?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, fifteen, fifteen. So, yeah, yep. And it took a lot of confidence, uh, took a lot of courage and belief in myself.

• 5:33Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  To be able to do that. So, um, yeah, went back at the end of year ten and they accepted me for year eleven and twelve. And yeah, they were probably the two best years of my schooling, uh, at that school. It's an all-boys school, a rugby league school and, uh, created a lot of great friendships, still great mates with those boys and, and those families that I lived with, uh, back then. So, yeah, that was a really turning point in my life, uh, because I was either going down the wrong path or I was throwing all my eggs in the basket with, with rugby league.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  That's just, as I said earlier, that's sort of fairly mature decision-making for a fifteen-year-old to say, you know what, I'm probably not going down the right direction here, or, or I got some skills which I should have made better use of. And, uh, maybe another way of putting it, cause not to say, you know, those kids hanging around with going down the wrong path. I mean, they're, they're all sort of value judgments and sort of ethical issues. And sometimes we probably shouldn't judge the reasons or the things that people do, cause they do them for various reasons. And they're maybe not as lucky as you. Maybe didn't have as good a back family as you, or perhaps, or maybe no one actually brought it to their attention. But the point being is, what you just said is making, taking better advantage of whatever skills you had.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  And, and optimizing.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  And recognizing it.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, yeah, I remember the drive from Toowoomba to Brisbane and me uncle was grilling me.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  What about?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  I just, you know, like you got an opportunity, uh, here to do something with your life. So I was sort of pretty handy as a footballer at that age, but when I was not making repsides, I was dinting my confidence and, you know, seeing the other boys that I thought I was, you know, better at that, that age, uh, getting those Broncos scholarships. That was, yeah, that was.

• 7:23Speaker 00

  Why didn't you get one? What do you reckon?

• 7:25Speaker 01

  You'll have to ask the Broncos then.

• 7:27Speaker 00

  But what do you think in hindsight?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Um, I've always got, the boys are gonna drill me for this too, but, you know, I was always the smallest in the team.

• 7:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  Uh, and had this, um, you know, I couldn't tackle, um, you know, all that type of stuff. So.

• 7:42Speaker 00

  They would say that?

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was, I always had that hanging over, uh, over my head as well. So, you know, and I was never the biggest or the strongest, but I thought I had pretty good technique, uh, to bring players down. So, um, yeah, it was disheartening at the time, but again, it just, you know, gave me a bit more resilience and a bit more determination to go. Having that chip on my shoulder was like, all right, when I played against these boys that were wearing those tracksuit, it was me or them and that was my mindset.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Would you say you have a chip on your, you had a chip on your shoulder? Or you were just fully competitive?

• 8:25Speaker 01

  Uh, both. Fully, like I am fully competitive. Um, and, you know.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Naturally.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Naturally, yep, yep. So, you know, I remember as a child playing in the backyard, uh, with me uncles. And if they were beating me, I'd get the shits and start crying and run into mum. You know, they're playing too hard and rough. And mum goes, don't come in here complaining, get back out there and play. So.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Tough love.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Uh, go back out and, uh, yeah, keep playing. So, yeah, I just hated losing. I just couldn't stand losing. We'd lose a match and I'd be bawling my eyes out because I couldn't stand that, that feeling.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  It's funny, you know, um, and I just wanna just bring it forward a little bit, um. When I go to a game and sometimes I get to go down in the sheds, particularly when I used to sponsor Origin, if you're in the losing team, one of the things I observed in the room after the game, particularly at Origin, it was like someone had just passed away. It was like the difference between winning and losing, the vibe in the room, like it's mental. Like I got a shock in my life. And I used to think to myself, and if I looked around the room and I saw somebody who wasn't that down on it, upset about it, I used to think to myself, but whereas the rest, I used to think to myself,

• 9:47Speaker 00

  there's a major difference and maybe that's the reason we did lose is because you're one or two players who aren't thinking it's a really big deal to lose. Like some players, ah, it's okay, it's just a game of football.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  The best players, there's no such thing.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, definitely not. So like I said, and I've had that since I was a child. Um, and

• 10:08Speaker 00

  And is that something you've experienced later on in your life with other blokes, other great players?

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep, yep. And I remember when I got to the Cowboys, um, you know, we'd lose and I'd still be kicking stones, you know, four or five days afterwards and we were preparing for another match and Ty Williams actually chipped me. I was like, mate, if I can let it go, we play this weekend, you know, it happened. So then, and I was the skipper at that time too. So I was like, oh, yeah, he's right. You know, like I need to be setting the example. Yes, I'm disappointed and I hate losing, but you know, you've got to learn from that and then, you know, analyse your own game, why, you know, you didn't play well or why the team didn't play well. And then, you know, you need to be able to squash

• 10:53Speaker 01

  that and then try and move on quickly to the next. But yeah, Origin, Kangaroos, like, like you said, it's like, uh, someone's passed away when, when, when you lose because those games, there's, there's a bigger purpose, right? There's a higher purpose.

• 11:10Speaker 00

  That's funny you should say that. It definitely is a higher purpose. It's like Queensland, it's Queensland's purpose.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  In your case, whereas New South Wales, you know, purpose in a New South Wales, Wilsham's case. And it's when you don't have that purpose and it's why Queensland, I mean, he had a great, the squad you was in, you were in were amazing squad, like man for man, but, and, and also as a squad, you all coordinated very extremely well for a long period of time, but still you played for Queensland. And it's the thing, you know what I mean? I just, and we've, New South Wales, and when I say we, New South Wales are starting to work on that process to become similar to that. But Queensland used to play right to the very end. They'd never ever give up. That was, I remember Gus used to tell me when he was a coach of the New South Wales side. He said Queensland never stop. You can be winning, but they'll just keep going and keep going. Of course, there is a greater purpose.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  It's not just about you playing well. It's like, I'm playing for a greater reason.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 12:04Speaker 00

  Every player.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  And that's what's so great about that game in the state of Origin series, right? Because, you know, and we've had it at times where, um, New South Wales has done a Queenslander on us.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  You know, where they've won the game in the last couple of seconds through a try or try saving tackle, you know, and, um, as you said, there's a higher purpose. That's why people love it. Uh, it's a tribe. It's, it's very tribal Origin. Um, and yeah, the way that it's going, it's, yeah, it's, it's a beast.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  If I could ask you a sort of advisory question, you're sitting in the sheds after the game, coach, as you know, normally addresses the game a little bit. Mostly they say something.

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Sometimes they kick the shit out of the door and walk out. We've seen that. But like just say the coach has got, tries to be sensible. How sensitive are players, given there's a turnaround of five, six days before they play the next week, because they can't afford to lose the next week, they've got to win again.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  How, how sensitive does a coach have to be to the players' feelings so that they don't feel like they're losers by saying how shit they were? I mean, how does that work in the player's head?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you've got to be very articulate with the way that you communicate with players these days. Um, you know, I was always the one where like just hit me between the eyes with it. All right. So I know where I need to be better. I beat around the bush. Um, you know, if I made an error, um, you know, I'll line up to that. And that's always been how.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  What about if your attitude was shit, John? Like if, if it looked like you just didn't put in, would you cop it? They said, well, you didn't put up.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  No, like as a leader and as a skipper, like if there's people that you know aren't just going through the motions, um, they're the conversations that you need to know and need to be able to have.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  Would you have it on the side though? Would you, would you pull it aside?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, there's, in that team environment, there's different players that connect with different players. Right. So you'll have a leadership group in that team. All right. So if I didn't get along well, or if I didn't have a closer relationship with one of the boys, I would lean on one of my leadership group or go, hey, you know, have you been noticing this?

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I said, well, just have a quiet conversation to him on the, on the side and just let him know that, you know, we're all running in the same direction here and we've noticed some, a couple of things, you know, with the attitude. So is there something going on outside of footy? You know, talk to us so that we know that, you know, because we don't know what's going on in the home life when they leave. So that might be attributing to why they're coming in and doing what they're doing. So.

• 14:47Speaker 00

  Or not doing.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Or not doing exactly right. But, you know, I was always the person that I could leave anything at the door as soon as I walked in, because that was my focus.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Cause we do see some coaches who don't articulate and they actually lose it. And, you know, and we know, we know that.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Pressure environment.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Because they're under pressure.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's a results driven business, right?

• 15:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yep. So everyone wants to win. Um, and you've got to be very articulate with the way that you communicate with the players.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Do you think they're more sensitive now?

• 15:25Speaker 00

  I do.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, and, um, I remember when I first come through at the dogs, you know, like I wouldn't say boo to the first grade team, you know, like I'd, I'd be too scared to say hello to them because there was just this hierarchy, right? And you had to earn your stripes where, you know, the, the, the under twenties boys, when that competition was coming in and then, you know, they'd come in and get their spots and they'd be good banter, but you know, it was like, uh, you're, you're, you're too old. Like, you know, they're giving it to you. I'm like, oi.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  But you, you, that was how you would receive it? You said stuff you.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they've got a lot more confidence, uh, these days to have that banter with the, with the older blokes where, when, yeah, you know, I'll come through in the early two thousands and, you know, they were hard heads.

• 16:24Speaker 00

  It was actual hierarchy.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, actual hierarchy, right? So there was no leadership group. There was no, it was a skipper and you earned your stripes. You know, the rep players, uh, they're the ones that were making the decisions and putting you in your place.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Did you ever feel like, oh, hang on, like, uh, uh, uh, maybe I haven't been here long enough, but I reckon I'm, I could just, I could match up with that particular individual if I need to. And did you, but did you have to bite your tongue?

• 16:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep. So my greatest strength was my fitness. So.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Super fit?

• 16:59Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. So.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Naturally or?

• 17:02Speaker 01

  Naturally. Yeah, yep, yep. So, um, when I got to the dogs, it was that, like I was coming into a team that was already based in the, in the early days. Ricky Stewart was our coach. So how am I going to crack this team? And they trained hard. And yeah, I would eat that training up and lead everything and.

• 17:23Speaker 00

  We're talking like beep tests and stuff like that.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Beep tests, yep.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  You towel them up.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  I was like, yeah, yep. Every, every training session that we did with fitness, I would, I'd be leading the pack. That was my way of going, you know, I'm here to.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  Was that a strategy though? Was that something that Jonathan thought, well, that's the way I'm going to do it?

• 17:41Speaker 01

  Well, because I come down through halfway through the year. So the Jersey flag team was already picked. So it was a train and trial. So this was my one and only shot at, you know, getting a, getting a contract. Um, and yeah, so that was, like I said, my strength was my fitness and any fitness that we did, I would win that.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  I'm always curious to know how someone builds up that level of fitness. I mean, uh, I mean, I, I mean, I love the boxing world and, uh, one of the, my greatest fighters that I've ever watched, and I still love watching his old fights is Jeff Ennich. And he was the, probably the fittest boxer in history. Maybe not the most skilled, certainly the most courageous and the maddest. You could knock him out.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  But he was definitely the fittest, definitely the fittest. And, uh, I'd say today, there's no one ever been fitter than him in, in, in, in boxing. Um, and it was his strength, but it was his strategy. His strategy was to be that person.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I found the fitter you are. Um, in high pressure situations, the calmer you are.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  That's interesting. You found that for yourself?

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  So if your, if your fitness dropped off, you would not be as calm.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Well, if your heart rate's going through the roof, you need to be able to think slow.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  That's very interesting because, you know, it's funny you should say that John, because scientifically, if your heart rate's going fast, it's usually because your adrenaline and your cortisol's out of control. And what that does is it shuts down the, the front part of your brain where you make decisions, because it's just fight or flight.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  I'm either gonna fight or I'm gonna run.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm gonna get out of here. And uh, no decision making. In fact, your whole digestion stops. If you have food and there's something, if something like this happens, your, your body stops digesting food.

• 19:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 00

  So you're right. That, that makes sense. A hundred percent makes sense. So that, we're going back, uh, how old are you now? Fifty?

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Forty-three.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Fifty.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  So.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  But if we go, we go back to thirty, twenty odd years, you knew that then, that if I could make sure that my fitness was such that my heart wasn't jumping out of my chest, I can make better decisions on the field, better judgments.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, a hundred percent you can. Yep. So that was always.

• 20:01Speaker 00

  That's in FLEG. That's, that's a FLEG. What was FLEG then? Eighteen?

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Uh, I think it might've been under twenty-one.

• 20:07Speaker 00

  Twenty-one was it? It kept changing around. But they, so you came down to play FLEG halfway during the season, team's already picked.

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  You're, but you're backing yourself to be fitter than everybody else on the side.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 20:17Speaker 00

  Were you already training to be, before you came down, were you, were you already super fit?

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. So I was playing local A grade when I was at high school in Toowoomba. Um, and playing against grown men at that age, it accelerated my ability to move.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  Cause you're gonna get out of the way. Cause if they grab hold of you, they're gonna build you.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  Especially at A grade then.

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a really strong competition, uh, in the late nineties, uh, there. So, um, yeah, that taught me a lot. And then, yeah, getting down to Canterbury, I was like, all right, this is my opportunity. So my, you know, I was never the strongest, but my strength was my fitness. So I used that. And I always found that being the half, you have to be the fittest because you're the one that's making the decisions in high pressure moments.

• 21:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're touching the ball.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  You're touching the ball the most.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  Other than a dummy half.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Dummy half. So, and your teammates get you in a position to ice the game or close out the game. And, you know, through experience, you know, that keeps evolving. But yeah, you see things happening before it does.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  How long were you staying FLEG for?

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I played a few games and then started playing reserve grade, uh, sit on the bench for reserve grade. Um, and then, yeah, we won the FLEG grand final in two thousand and one.

• 21:36Speaker 00

  Do you remember your first game in first grade?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Uh, I do. Yeah. Uh, against Penrith, um, out of Penrith.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  Who, who was in your side then? Willie?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Mason, uh, yeah, Braith, Nigel Wangan, Willie Tilow, uh, Adam Perry, Mark O'Meara, Bob Cat, Steve Price.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  A great side.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Steve Riordan.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  Great side.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was just playing with all these like proper hard nuts, like, you know, and, yep. And yeah, it was nerve wracking. Um, but, you know, that was my dream, right? That was my dream to play in the NRL and, and I achieved that. And then you set new goals and you just keep going.

• 22:19Speaker 00

  Were you nervous?

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep, yep. The boys that I was playing with, uh, made me relax, um, because, you know, they were an extremely strong side. Um, and yeah, so.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Who was coach?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Steve Fokes.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Fokesy.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. So, um, you know, Joe Nullabel was there, um, Pulutua, um.

• 22:44Speaker 00

  That's a pretty solid team.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, and those two boys were just running at me the whole time. So, but yeah, it was, it was a great experience.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  You went on from Canterbury, then played for North Queensland, for the Cowboys. Um, you're moving out of, um, well, what was it like, by the way, I should ask you this one, to come from Brisbane, to live in, where were you living when you came down and played for the Dogs?

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Belmore.

• 23:08Speaker 00

  Belmore, okay. So you're right in the middle of it. So you're living in Belmore. So you've come, you've gone from, uh, uh, Brisbane out to, uh, Toowoomba, back to Brisbane perhaps. So down is, down to Belmore?

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Down to Belmore. Yes.

• 23:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And were you living by yourself?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I was in the, uh, Bulldog's house.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Okay. They got a joint there, yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. So Roy Asatasi, Jason Williams, Ben Harris, Sonny Bill Williams, Nate Miles.

• 23:31Speaker 00

  Are you with the SPWs on that side?

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. So, um, it was a great house to be in, uh, with Pete and Mary, the, the caretakers there. And yeah, it was, it was good fun.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  And you, so you, but you're living in Sydney and then, um, and playing for the Canterbury Bank Center, playing for the Dogs. And then you moved from Sydney though, from Belmore to Townsville.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  To Townsville, yep.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  That's a big change.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not as big as the one moving from Toowoomba to.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  To Belmore.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  To Belmore. Um, you know, and I really enjoyed my time there and I didn't want to leave. Um, but, you know, they threw all their eggs in the basket with, with Braith and, and, and Brent Sherwin, uh, at the time. So, and also.

• 24:13Speaker 00

  How did you feel about that?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Like, I thought I was good enough to cement a spot, spot there. Um, but yeah, you know, Fokesy, when I had the conversation with him, um, you know, he said, we can't match what the, the Cowboys are doing, uh, have given you. So he pretty much said, you know, you gotta take that because we don't have a spot here for you.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  Do you think it was salary cap related or?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Um, well, I think it's just more that they threw their eggs in with, with, you know, Braith was playing for Australia at the time. Brent just signed a five year deal. I think he was the first ever. So, um, they, that was their path. And also I probably had to get out of Sydney as well, in the bright lights.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  Yes, it did for one.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep. So, and I, at that stage, you know, I only played, when I left, I think twenty-eight first grade games over three years. So, and that was due to injuries and being in and out of first grade and whatnot. But I wanted the keys to the team.

• 25:12Speaker 00

  To run the team, to run the game.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. And going to Townsville, uh, to the Cowboys, that was the opportunity for me to do that.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  So have you kept mates with all those Canterbury guys? You're still?

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a, there's a group of them that really close to. So still in touch. Um, obviously, um, you know, won the two thousand and four grand final with those boys as well. So.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  I remember the game.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Create a special bond.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  I remember it. I remember that. I was at that game.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 25:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, you.

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Sos not sos.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  I remember and I remember it well. Actually, um, I think Hodge was playing for us actually. Hodge, Hodge was on the bench.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  He, we put, we had him go on the bench, but, uh, Sonny was sort of tall and was up a fair bit.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:56Speaker 00

  So I remember the game. Uh, I remember, um, I was sitting there and, um, I was sitting, I was with Nick Poyce, we're sitting on the tunnel, right, right on the edge of the tunnel where the tunnel is there at, um, Ackall. And across from me was the Bulldog supporters. And they recognized that I can't, some recognized me and they knew that I, I grew up in the area. And they were giving me so much shit about being a Rooster supporter. Oh my God, it was full on, full on. And then I, I, and I, I thought it got, it got a bit heavy, you know, I thought it was gonna be, you know, I, I, I yelled out something to somebody, said something to Poyce or whatever. And, uh, and I thought this is gonna, this is gonna turn to something. So I thought I better look for the security guy. And I turn around and the security guy is a bloke I knew from the suburbs. Mate, he

• 26:41Speaker 00

  couldn't, he wouldn't hurt a balonish. Like he's, he's, he wouldn't hurt anything. Like, he was like, I'm looking at him, like, oh my God, you're not the guy who's gonna look after this situation, eh? But that, that, that was a great game. That was amazing.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Like that, those are.

• 26:55Speaker 00

  Ricky was our coach.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. Well, he coached me in FLEG sticky in two thousand and one, then went to the Roosters.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  What did someone like you learn from someone like, uh, then, when you were just a young guy, um, from someone like Ricky Stewart? Like who's, who's a half pack of course?

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I was a Canberra Raiders supporter growing up.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  So you loved him?

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was fangirling.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  But he's always given everyone shit.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, he, yeah, they reckon, uh.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  In the game, I'm telling you.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  In the game, yeah. He, he was very chirpy.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Talking to the front rowers, saying, you know, like, you, you look like a big girl or something like.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he was very.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  Good sledge.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  Did you sledge?

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Uh, no, not really, not really. Uh, if someone poked me, yes. But, you know, I was never one to go out there and try and sledge people to get them off their game.

• 27:43Speaker 00

  That's what his thing was.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. See, I was too focused on what I needed to do for the team. So. Um, there were opportunities.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  But what did you learn from someone like him in terms of, well, he's an unbelievable competitor.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:55Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Yep, yeah, a lot. Um, you know, his passing game was, you know, the big spirals as well.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Like a rugby unit style pass.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep. So, um, but just his attention to detail, uh, with the game as well. So, you know.

• 28:10Speaker 00

  Analytically, you mean?

• 28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep, yep. So that's when all the computers started to come out where you can start watching your own game. Uh, on the, on the computers. Before then, it was the V H S. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, uh, sitting down with him and, and going through your game, um, you're, you're learning a lot, right? Cause he's obviously experienced the, the highest level. So, um, yeah. My knowledge certainly grew about rugby league with the time that I had with him.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  And your approach to the game in terms of being more analytical, did, do you think that was something?

• 28:46Speaker 01

  That was, yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I also loved about the game. Like, uh, it was. I enjoyed manipulating the defensive lines. Like, that's what I really liked.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  So you would study the defensive line of your opposition and then you would manipulate that?

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. So you're trying to get players outside of their comfort zone on the field, right? So you're trying to get, um, you know, front rows on the short side that you can take them on with your speed. You're trying to, you know, attack a third man out late, um, back and behind the ruck or, you know, as a half. You know, you, you, you're watching what, you know, the halfback is doing, the defensive halfback's doing. Whether he's sitting in the seat, you're watching what the centre's doing, whether he's in a starting position to pull the trigger and try and jam. And then you're also watching what the winger's doing. So, and then when you get down to that part of it. You're trying to set them up to catch them out. So, you know, I'd play short into the back row to get the half sitting in the seat.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  Uh, the centre jammed then, all right, let's get back to that same field position and put that same play on and see if he jams again. He's jammed again. So you go straight across the face of the fullback and hit the centre and then it's a two on one with the winger.

• 30:01Speaker 00

  But that's a pretty intense, um, thought process that, that's, that's just one example, but that's pretty intense. That was in your playbook.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Well, that's what I loved about it. So, yeah, that's.

• 30:11Speaker 00

  That was just one aspect of your playbook?

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  Would you watch their faces too? Like, are you looking for a tie?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  More their body language.

• 30:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  All right. So like if the halfback's got his weight on his outside foot. Um, then you know that he's going to have a weak inside shoulder tackle.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  So when you go into the line, if he's starting to turn out, then you know it's going to be a weak inside shoulder tackle. So if you play short, you're going to quick, get a quick play of the ball. You can jump the short side or you can go back through the middle. So, yeah, just, you know.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  So it was an instinct. Uh, this is actual analytics.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that's what I loved about the game was breaking it down. So I would, I would tell my forwards who to run at.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Wow, good. From what you can see.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  From what I can see. So then I can see what, who's moving in the defensive line. So then I can play off the back of that.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  I find that amazing. I mean, I've never heard anyone speak like that before, cause I was gonna ask you. You know, like when I, no, I was gonna ask, cause like, you know, I've been watching probably for a long time and, uh, you know, the, the great players. Of which you're one of, the, the great players, um, especially in the halves, five, eight and half back. They tend to have, it what appears to me as an observer, more time. When they're, when the ball's in the hand, they seem to have more time than everybody else. I don't know. It's like ti- time slows down for some reason.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Um, and I often wondered to myself, why that, it, why that observation is the case? Why does Jonathan Thurston, Darren Lockyer, Brad Fittler, et cetera? Uh, these guys appear to have more time when they've got the ball. Cooper Cronk too. Like, they just seem like they've got more time with the ball.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  What is that? Is that because the other team's just waiting because they know you're going to do something? Joey Johns, I mean.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, it's all, um, circumstantial, right? Yeah, you've got time, uh, time on the field, time to make decisions, but also, you know, if. A player comes shooting out of the line to try and limit your time, then, you know. When you pass the ball, they've exposed their teammate for a one on one tackle. So whilst they've taken me out. They've got to get back another 10 metres. So I can still get up and still manipulate the defensive line because they've made a bad, well, poor choice defensively. So, um, yeah, it's all about body language when you're a half and trying to.

• 32:43Speaker 00

  Your body language too? What about your body language?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Definitely, yep, yep.

• 32:47Speaker 00

  I mean, even if you're sort of a bit ginger somehow, I mean, are you, are you trying to, are you thinking yourself, um, the opposition, you know, like, uh, Mitchell Peers watching my body language? Um, in the grand final, uh, I, I, even though I might be a bit ginger on the left side, I'm not going to show it.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Yes. Uh, well, that's, yeah, yep, yep. I was, uh, I'm a very emotional person. I'm an emotional person. I, I see that as a strength of mine. Um, I'm not afraid to show my emotions and that probably got the better of me at times. But also my teammates can see that emotion as well. So you've got to be very careful the way that you're exposed.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  If it's a negative emotion.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. So that's when I take things from different players that I got to play alongside. Um, you know, especially Cameron Smith and, and, you know, Darren Lockyer, like. You don't know whether they're winning by 10 points or they're behind by 10 points because they're just so, they're so calm. So that was something that I had to really learn to do was try and control my emotions and, um, but yeah, like.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Or not show them.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Not show them. Yeah, exactly right. So, um, but again, you know, it's all circumstantial what's going on in the field.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  I mean, years ago, I used to go to footy with Kerry Packer and, and he often would get, we'd often ask, you know, Ron Coot or someone like to come along to the game and. Other beats and, and Kerry, he never invariably would take them. Away from watching the game we went to watch and he started talking to him and I used to sit there sometimes listening and he'd always ask the same questions. And I want to ask you the question, I think it's a great question. Kerry used to always say to Cootie and also to, um, Arthur, et cetera. Um, who was the hardest player, the toughest player you ever had to tackle? Who, who you just hated to have to play against, against?

• 34:37Speaker 01

  Uh, it was always, uh, the back rows, the back rows of the opposition, like. Being in, being a half, you're always targeting the opposition halves, right? So the back row was. Um, you know, Sonny Bill, uh, in the back row was hard to, to tackle Sam Burgess in the back row. So like, I remember what's, uh, playing a game and I was exposed on the short side and he was opposite of me. And I was just going, please do not pass him the ball. Please do not pass him the ball. And they go the other way. So.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  Thank God.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. So those big boys that are targeting you to try and.

• 35:13Speaker 00

  Adrian Morley.

• 35:13Speaker 01

  One, one on one tackles. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I'd have to say the back rows, because they're the ones that. They get the bumper bars up, they get the, you know, they've got the solid hips, you know, you go low, you hit their hip, you get a burner. It's, yeah.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  And, and what about in terms of someone you love to play alongside?

• 35:33Speaker 01

  There's a few.

• 35:34Speaker 00

  Yep. Obviously Smith.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, Smithy was probably the best that I played alongside, um, person that I loved.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Why is he so good?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Um, I, I was fortunate enough to play a test match alongside Joey, um, my first ever test match. And he took my knowledge from here to here, uh, with the game as well. Um, he was. His skill set was the best of everyone. Um, and he was, you know, a few sets ahead of what the opposition was doing. Cam Smith, he could control the game. So what the decisions that he's making right now isn't for that. He's making it for five, six sets down the track. So he just had this unbelievable ability to manage the game.

• 36:22Speaker 00

  And the referees.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Hey?

• 36:24Speaker 00

  And the referees.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  I know. I wish I learnt that off him.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  But yeah, my favourites to play with was, was Matty Bowen.

• 36:33Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Matty Bowen.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Matty Bowen and G I, Greg English. Uh, Matty Bowen, you just had to get him the ball.

• 36:39Speaker 00

  Couldn't you run?

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Space and he could do the rest and, uh, yep.

• 36:43Speaker 00

  Not much of him either, but amazing.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  No, so he was a big reason why I moved to Townsville was to play alongside him. And we formed a great friendship and a great bond on and off the field. So, um, and then through the rep footy. Um, yeah, I loved having G I outside me on that left side. He just. Was so powerful, so skillful. And when he was on, he was just like, there's no chance we're losing.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  And then Matty was, he would have been in the fullback. He's probably still playing footy, is he? Someone told me. A grade or something, I don't know.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, um, yeah, he was, he was, he was a sharp footy brain as well. But, um, yeah, he's speed off the mark. Like it was, his skill set, um, you know, nailing three on twos or, you know, um, being able to beat defenders one on one. Uh, yeah, there wasn't too many better than him.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  And would you consider yourself, when you're playing at your peak, would you consider yourself as what they call an eyes up footy player? Like, were you, or are you more structured?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Nah, I, I, I was, I was blended with the both.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Bit of both?

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. I loved the eyes up footy, um, but also I loved, you know, manipulating the defensive line throughout that set of six.

• 38:07Speaker 00

  Because when I look at, um, Smith and the teams that he played in, he played in very structured, when I'm talking about Melbourne. He played in very structured sides. It was a very structured game. Cooper.

• 38:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  And Smith, Billy at the back. It was, and they had these, you know, processes they just went through and it's very hard to stop.

• 38:27Speaker 00

  And they were good, but they were good. It was a, it was a machine.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 00

  Your game, the style of footy, did you ever feel pressure when you played Origin, when you're playing with those individuals who had a style in Melbourne?

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Um.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  To play their style?

• 38:41Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say pressure, but.

• 38:43Speaker 00

  How do you deal with that? And what do they say to you?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, again, it's, it's a team sport, right? So you've got to play to your strengths. And, you know, like I was less to play alongside Lockie in my early years. Um, so, you know, Smithy would get the boys around the park and my role was to get Lockie the ball when he, when he wanted it. But he gave me free rein, uh, to play the way that I like to play. Um, but when Cooper started coming in and then when he got seven, uh, then with Billy. So there was that Melbourne dynamics, right? So, you know, you have to have a conversation with those boys to go, hey, I know you three are, you know, at the peak of your powers everywhere, but I've got G I sitting outside me.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, give me the ball.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  When I need the ball, I need the ball.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  So would you, would you say to Coop, like, mate?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to. Yeah, you have to.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Cause I've got to get it, cause I've got him on my left side.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Outside me.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  He had Hojo outside him on his side as well. So he had a handy centre as well.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  So do you talk to Cameron or, or do you talk to Cooper?

• 39:50Speaker 01

  No, well, you've got to have the conversation with all of them, right? Because it's a team sport. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

• 39:55Speaker 00

  So when you, when you're in Origin side, I mean, that was an amazing origin side, like, seriously, like, you know, like it's ridiculous, so good. But when you think about it, but, um, you know, like if you're, you're in the situation, because, you know, you, you come together for whatever it's nine weeks or something like that. And all of a sudden you're all arrive at the training environment. You've all been chosen or picked by the coach and you turn up. Do you, does the spine sit down? Do you just go and go up to the spine, maybe alongside G I and say, look, guys, this is how we're going to do it. This is how we, well, do you have like a negotiation?

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, the spine would come up with, uh, the style of footy that we like to play. And we could also roam as well. If I was wearing the six jersey or the seven jersey, I could jump in and be first receiver for Lockie or Lockie could be first receiver for me. Um, you're trying to just create that five on four, um, style of footy to, you know, get that advantage, uh, where you can to create that ruck speed to, you know, uh, manipulate the defensive line. So, you know, if you're coming off a sideline, you know, the seven, nine, six to one would be getting the ball. So you go sideline to sideline and we would get that structure put in place.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  So that, you know, if Cooper had a go down the right side, then, you know, we could all just fall back into the shape where we could, you know, pull the trigger and go from sideline to sideline.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  Go to the other side.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or you break it down and then you've got, you know, someone out of position. And then you can pull that part, that part of the defensive line apart.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  Did you have situations where you might've been behind in an Origin game? And, uh, Billy comes up and goes, listen, just go this direction. Like not, not as he's, he's playing fullback. He would say, let's, let's just take you down this direction. Would you, would you have that like?

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So it's all, it happens very fast. It happens extremely quickly, right? So if I see something, um, I would scream to, to the fullback to come with me. All right. So whether.

• 41:58Speaker 00

  Literally?

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, in case, so if the, if you start kicking early, the defensive wingers start dropping back a bit more. All right. So from the midfield, right? If they're detached from the defensive line and you can see that, then you need to get the ball out there to, you know, create that opportunity that you get. So if I had seen that, you know, you call the overriding call and then you get, you scream to your fullback that you call the play. So then he's sweeping around and then he creates that extra man to, that's detached on the end of the line. And that's how you manipulate it. So you're watching everything unfold, right? So.

• 42:39Speaker 00

  How was that process work? I mean, like, I don't know. I just can't work it out. Like I, I obviously didn't play it like that, but like, how do you work it out? How does Jonathan Thurston and others detach themselves from the, the, the, the hustle, the scrambling, all the stuff that's going on out there with that two seconds and enough to be able to make yourself, put yourself, make a decision and make a call?

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it, well, it's.

• 43:04Speaker 00

  What's your process?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  Well, you're, you're watching it all unfold as it happens, right? So when a defender, when an attacker takes the ball into the defensive line, there's normally three players in that tackle. Sometimes there's four. So then you're seeing who's coming out and who's out of position. And that's what you're trying to.

• 43:24Speaker 00

  That you've got to, yeah, but you've got to calculate all that stuff or analyze and calculate it within the seconds.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  You see that happening and then, all right, if nothing, if they get their defensive line set, all right, then you just keep going until you get the opportunity. So you're trying to manipulate the defensive line to create those opportunities throughout that set of six.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  There, there's like a 20 or 30 moving parts there.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's true experience too.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Like, uh, you, you, I've played it since I was, you know, six years of age, but, you know, the more you get in those situations and, and like I said, that's what I loved about the game was, you know, watching the footy, watching the, the opposition edges, um, and then trying to manipulate that, right? Because if you see, when you're taking the ball into the line and as a half, right, you're trying to get to the back rower. And if you've got your back row leading and then you've got your fullback at the back, um, you've got a five on four opportunity. And then you're trying to just, your vision is seeing what the halfback and the centre are doing. So if the centre's a metre ahead of the halfback,

• 44:35Speaker 01

  he's more than likely going to pull the trigger and try and shut down the, down the, uh, fullback. So that's when he goes straight across his face to the centre. If he's still got his feet planted square, he's not pulling the trigger. All right. So that's when he just hit the fullback and the fullback with his speed beats and he's got a three on two.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  Wow, this is so technical.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  You're watching what the opposition body language is. So.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  Were there any coaches you hated playing against? What I mean by playing with, you would think, oh my God, here's the coach, it's going to be hard to beat this side. Are there coaches who sort of feel the same position as some of the blokes you never wanted to run, who you never wanted to run at?

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Melbourne for me was always.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Bellamy.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Bellamy. Yeah, yeah. I've got a huge respect, uh, for that club. Um, and yeah, didn't get too many wins against them, but, um, yeah, they were, like you said before, they, they were a team that would just strangle you and suffocate you. You know, I remember watching some vision, um, from the game and I remember telling them, have a look, you're like, there was three blokes on me and you couldn't see me except my feet.

• 45:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, they smothered.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  They, they just smothered me like, you know, so you got no, you know, and that's what they did extremely well.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  And how do you, what do you think of the new rules? Cause I mean, now you're an observer, you know, you're a commentator, you, you like the six again?

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Is it because it would have suited Jonathan Thurston more when you were playing?

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Yep. The only thing that I don't like about it is it's called a ruck infringement, but you don't know what that ruck infringement is.

• 46:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  All right. So, yeah. Is it marker not square? Is it, um, you know?

• 46:18Speaker 00

  Laying on the player.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Laying on the player for too long, you know, like, so I think when they make that decision, it would be good to know that that was the call. So then, yeah, as a, as a watcher, because you don't know what, it's just called a ruck infringement. There's three or four different ruck infringements. So that's the only part that I don't like about it. I wish we could have the referee say, not square, six again, you know?

• 46:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  There you go. So, all right, everyone knows.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Or you're going to repeat it on the screen or something.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, so, um, but yeah, I love the way that the game is going now. Uh, the ball and play is what I loved, um, especially playing in Townsville where it's hot. So you wouldn't be kicking it out to try and slow the ball down. You're trying to fatigue the opposition and, you know, the, there's so much entertainment in the game now. And yeah, I love the way it's being, being run.

• 47:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, Valantis has sort of had a big role in some of those changes. And we had him on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about why I brought it, brought the six again in. And what if, how do you feel now we have got, you know, potentially 22 teams in the comp, uh, definitely, um, P and G and, uh, the Chieftains and also, um, West Australia, the old Bears. How do you feel about the competition expanding?

• 47:34Speaker 01

  I love it. I love it. I think 20 teams is our mark. Um, and then

• 47:41Speaker 01

  I'd like us to see us grow the international game.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Uh, you, you're talking about like European, like France, those teams?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. I'd love to see us, uh, invest more in the international game. Our players are playing so much footy now. Um, you know, our best players, they're playing every game for their club. They're playing Origin and then they're playing for Australia. So, and then you've got trials at the start of the year, you've got all stars, so. I think if we had twenty teams, uh, each team plays each other once, uh, go into the finals and then you have two months of international footy.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Well, you're, you're, you're an influence in Rugby League today, I mean particularly.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say that.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  No, you are. No, you aren't. You are, Jonathan, because like ever, everybody respects you, not just from your, particularly now I have a greater, a different, a deeper understanding of you, but also from your analytical ability. As more a observer now, um, do you, where would you prefer your next club to come from, uh, for Rannaral? Would you like, would you like to see it some from like, we talk, there's a lot of talk about, uh, west of Brisbane, like Ipswich, that type area, but probably out to Toowoomba.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  I think there's enough corporate, uh, sponsorship to have a fourth team there.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  In Queensland.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  In Queensland. Yep, yep.

• 48:59Speaker 00

  And would you like to see something west of Brisbane, out to Toowoomba?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  That, that, that corridor.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Uh, screaming out for an NRL team.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  It's pretty strong too.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  It is, it is. It's very strong. And also, um, you know, the other sport in AFL are trying to get a stranglehold in there as well.

• 49:17Speaker 00

  So we've got to stop them.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  We've got to stop it. Yep. Yeah. It's, it's heartland. Um, they love their footy. You know, I think the Warriors have set up an academy there because of how much talent is there as well. So, yeah, I definitely believe that, uh, yep, that team, then you've got, you know, we, we want to create rivalries in our game. And then you've got, you know, the Dolphins, Brisbane, Gold Coast and there. That's a huge rivalry network. And then obviously the Cowboys as well. Um, so, yeah, I think.

• 49:50Speaker 00

  How do you feel about the Chiefs? What do you think about that? That's a bit of an experiment, I guess, to some extent, but what do you think about it?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I love it. I've, uh, been to PNG many times. Um, the people are great. Um.

• 50:02Speaker 00

  They love their footy.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  They, they love their.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  I'm a guy, like it's not just love your footy. It's the only sport.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. So, you know, and, uh, they're doing extremely well with their recruitment for their first season. So, you know, they need to be successful, as do the Bears.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  The Bears need to be successful as well. So.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  That's harder.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yep. It's going to be hard, but, um, we need to make sure that the, the new franchises that come in, they need to be successful. Um, it's going to take some time for them to be successful, but, um, yeah, I think, uh, PNG. Yeah, they, they love their footy. They're great people. Um, and from a social perspective as well, what the game could do for that country.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Unbelievable.

• 50:49Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. Yep.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Because everybody watches footy.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:51Speaker 00

  Somehow.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. Yep. So, and yeah, I've had ambassadorships up there as well, where I've gone into the communities and, and seen, you know, what it's like. So, um, yes, they love their rugby league, but that can be the power to bringing, uh, you know, better social outcomes for that country as well.

• 51:12Speaker 00

  That's interesting you talk about the social outcomes. How important has Rugby League been to you to be able to shine light on cultural issues that exist within indigenous communities, given how famous you became?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, yeah, that's a privilege and an honour, um, and something I don't take for granted. I'm extremely proud of my, uh, indigenous heritage, uh, my culture. And I have a deep understanding of the history of our nation and what our culture has endured. Um, so, uh, I've used that platform through what Rugby League has given me, uh, to give back to the community and try and create, you know, better social outcomes for, uh, the young people that I get to work with. So that's where my passion lies now with the Jonathan Thurston Academy and.

• 52:02Speaker 00

  Let's talk about that for me because so, explain what that is. I mean, I, I, I know what it is, but give it our audience an explanation.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Back end of my career, I started to become, uh, ambassador for different programs, uh, indigenous programs with the Cowboys and the Fogs. Uh, and really enjoyed.

• 52:19Speaker 00

  The Fogs being the, uh, Origin Greats?

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  That's a Queensland concept.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Yep. So, um, yeah, I really enjoyed those, uh, social outcomes that the kids were making, uh, whether they were setting goals and, um, you know, understanding the values and, you know, and increasing their attendance or whatever it was. I really enjoyed, uh, making a difference on that side. So I spoke to my manager, Sam, uh.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  The famous M E A U.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Thinking, you know, do I have a big enough brand to go out and do this on my own? And, uh, we set up a structure. Uh, we launched the academy in twenty eighteen and we got a bit of a, uh, funding, uh, from the feds, uh, to run programs in, uh, Yarrabah, Cowan Yama and the Torres Strait. And, uh, we called that, uh, our J T Believe program.

• 53:12Speaker 00

  What is that?

• 53:13Speaker 01

  So that's a co-ed program, uh, attendance program, uh, for the schools. Um.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  It's, it's run by the schools?

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's our, our facilitators run the program.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  In the schools?

• 53:24Speaker 01

  In the schools, correct. Um, so we named it J T Believe program because, uh, after an origin, um, a mate of mine was working in Arakune. Um, and there was a bit of community unrest. We played in Sydney and won and, uh, gave a shout out to Arakune and the community. I was like, uh, keep believing in yourselves and keep turning up to school. And it was their biggest attendance day the next day.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  But you went there?

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  Did you go there?

• 53:51Speaker 01

  No, I've been there.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  But you shouted out, but a shout out.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  I did a shout out after Origin. So, um, that's why we named that the J T Believe program. And, um, that went extremely well. And then I was approached by the Assistant Police Commissioner, uh, just around COVID about an early intervention program. And, um.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  In Queensland?

• 54:10Speaker 01

  In Queensland. Yep, yep. So he said, if you can do that, uh, come back to me. And, uh, so J T A designed a four day.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  J T A?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. Uh, Jonathan Thurston Academy, uh, designed a four day intensive program. Uh, Q P S would pay us. We had a hundred and thirty odd kids come through eighteen programs. Uh, Sunshine Coast University did an evaluation on that, which Q P S paid for. And then they randomly selected thirty of those, uh, young people. And I think it was nine months, twelve months prior to program. They had a hundred and ninety-two charges between them. Um, and then post-program up to nine months, uh, from those thirty kids was a reduction to forty-two.

• 54:53Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 54:54Speaker 01

  So.

• 54:54Speaker 00

  We need something like that in Maureen, a few of the other places down near South Wales, to be honest with you.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  So I took that to the state government, uh, at the time. And, uh, I was like, if we're getting those type of behavioural changes with twenty hours of content, how about we redesign the program and run it over ten weeks? And try and re-engage the young people back into school, into mainstream schooling. So we've got some funding to do that. Uh, I've got some, uh, great outcomes, uh, with that, re-engaging kids back into school. Um, you know, diverting them away from the, the justice system. Um, you know, emotional regulation, healthy relationships.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so that was something that I'm extremely passionate about because I was one of those kids going down that path. And, um, I shared that with them. And when I did my autobiography, I was contemplating whether putting that in there. But I thought, you know what? If, uh, I can do it with the support network I had around me, it's important to put that out there and, you know, with the right support network. Uh, you know, other children and other young people can break that cycle as well. And that's what I want J T A to be. Um, so, yeah, now I've been to Canberra to hopefully, uh, get some more funding to be able to run the program in schools. So I've also done a partnership with James Cook University to co-design

• 56:21Speaker 01

  this program now to be run in schools. So extremely excited about what lies ahead for the academy. And yeah, that's where I put a lot of my energy into now.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Do you do that because you feel like you're paying forward what you were lucky enough to have done by going out to the Catholic school out there at Toowoomba? Um, and sort of, obviously there were, that was a massive moment in your life, you know, changed your life. Um, you were lucky enough to have great support and people encouraging you to do it, like your uncle, et cetera. Um, and no doubt your parents as well. Um.

• 56:57Speaker 00

  Is this Jonathan Thurston saying thank you?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 57:02Speaker 00

  Or is it more, or are you more driven to help your, your community?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's more driven. Um, I understand that the, the power of sport. Um, but our programs aren't about sport. Uh, it's about building young people's self-efficacy. So, once we spend that time with them, um, and through our program, uh, they're starting to understand who they are as a person. Um, they're starting to understand their cultural connectedness. Um, you know, like I said, emotional regulation, their healthy relationships. So they're doing effective communication now. Um, and you know, the young people that we have been working with, um, their numeracy and literacy levels

• 57:49Speaker 01

  are much lower than the rest of the, uh, their fellow peers that are at school. So, um, you know, we want to try and get that up to the level so that they're confident in, in going into school and feeling comfortable in school. So, you know, they, they don't get bullied or whatever it is, uh, that they do. And, you know, so that's what JTA is trying to do is, uh, work, build their self-efficacy. So, once they understand, uh, that they can achieve the task that is in front of them, you know, they have the confidence then to, you know, be on their own two feet and make positive, uh, contributions to society.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  It sort of like takes us right back to the very beginning when you're talking about how you felt. I mean, like,

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  how you, you, you probably, um, apart from doing well and they're giving you an opportunity to go and play footy then one day be coming down and play for the Bulldogs jersey flag, all that stuff.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:42Speaker 00

  And, but like that sort of sense of, um, purpose and also that sense of, uh, um, yeah, I'm like, I'm as good as everybody else. That's a pretty, it sounds pretty basic and fundamental.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Well, as we say, but it's so bloody important.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. Uh, I was lucky, not lucky, I was blessed to have, uh, things already in place for when I retired, uh, from rugby league. But what I was really, uh, struggling with was where am I going to find those moments that I loved about the game? So, again, um, speaking to a sports site, uh, which I had had all my life. And this person has helped me overcome a lot of, uh, personal issues as well. Um, yeah, I had to find them elsewhere. So I had to change my mindset, right? And I get that now through the success stories of the young people we work with. Obviously, I've got four daughters as well and wife.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  Um, get that, that's, I get that part of it as well, obviously. But, um, yeah, I've changed my mindset now to find those moments elsewhere. And I feel like JTA has given me the same highs that rugby league gives me through the success, the success of what, uh, we've been capable of doing, uh, and changing lives of, of young people. Like, you know, the one young lady through the partnership that I've got with Coles. She came to us with no drive, no goals, nothing on court orders. Um, through our program, uh, she's gone on to do other programs.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Um, and she did a, a barista course, uh, I think it was a hospitality cert. And she rang the academy asking if we can go to the graduation. So I went to the graduation, so with her and to see how far she had come and, you know, from, she said to me, if it wasn't for your program, I wouldn't have been here. So, uh, she now has a part-time job at Coles. Um, you know, she was on court orders. She had no drive, no, uh, goals or anything. And

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  Or self-esteem probably.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly right. So now it's great to see through our program now, this lady, this young lady is a strong young lady and has got a, you know, a, a life, um, on track. And she's contributing to society in a positive manner. And she's, you know, got a part-time job. She's still going to school now. So, you know, and there's been countless of those stories, uh, with what, you know, the JTA has been able to achieve over the years since 2018.

• 1:01:23Speaker 00

  That's crazy. I, I, I mean, I think that's an amazing, um, outcome. And, you know, it's obviously something driven by you. And, and it's interesting that you said that we get this little drug in our system that we, that we produce ourselves. This comes from playing footy, for example, in your case. And then you think, well, where am I going to find that? And I can find, can I find that by helping others? And, uh, it is great that you lean into that. And speaking of that drug, um, you know, apart from, you know, Daliya Medal, four times, oh, five, oh, seven, fourteen, fifteen, um, first player in history to ever have that award to them. Um, Golden Boot, three times, best player in the world. Um, seventeen, thirty-seven State of Origin matches. Um,

• 1:02:09Speaker 00

  but I'm not going to talk too much about that because it kills me. Um, thirty-eight Test for Australia, including Kangaroo's 2013 World Cup victory. But the big one, mate, Cowboys grand final. Uh, kicking that goal. Tell me about it. Tell me, what was going through your head in the, the dying moments? And, uh, and what you're gonna do?

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, that was a crazy year, that year. Um, lost our first three games and all the knives were out for us. Uh, and then we end up beating Melbourne in Melbourne in extra time up in Townsville.

• 1:02:44Speaker 00

  Which is rare.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Yes, very rare. Uh, I think I kicked two field goals to, uh, win the game. Um, and then we went on a run and we had so many tight games where we won by less than four points. So it didn't matter what the scoreboard was showing or what the clock was doing. We had this belief in ourselves that if we get an opportunity, we can win the game. And when the Broncos started kicking it out to try and run down the clock, that's negative. Um,

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  That's negative.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  That's negative.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  From their point of view.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  From their point of view. So that was building my belief that, you know, well, we can win this game. And yeah, that last play where I end up finding Morgo and Morgo, you know, flick passes it to Felty. And that's what I love about this game, uh, and that grand final is two local boys, born and bred in Townsville, pretty much win the game for the Cowboys.

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  Put you in a position to kick the goal.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep, yep. So, and that's a place where I love to be. Like, there's nowhere else in the world I want to be than in that moment because I'd trained and dreamt of that moment.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Of the field goal?

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Of, of, of the goal kick from the sideline.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  Can I know, that got, but let's, if I could go back a step, the goal kick from the sideline. But can I go back a step? Are you, are you nervous as shit? Are you thinking to yourself, if I stuff this up?

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  You're not?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  You're serious?

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  The whole game, I'm either gonna win or lose it?

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep.

• 1:04:25Speaker 00

  You don't.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Uh, and, um, oh, give me that opportunity every day of the week. I'm backing myself.

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  I just watch players do this now and I get nervous. I'm serious.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  But like I'd.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  Is it because you practice so many times?

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I always put myself in scenarios.

• 1:04:42Speaker 00

  Do you talk to yourself?

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'll get the boys to, all right, give me a scenario, boys, I'm kicking from here. All right, we've just scored. You know, we're one point behind. Uh, you've got to kick this from the.

• 1:04:52Speaker 00

  You mean in the game or a training?

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  Like a training, training. And, you know, they would be flicking me, they would be spraying water on me or, you know, trying to put me off in, in ways. So you're just completely zoned in on your routine. And that's what gives you the confidence to be.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  Cause I see someone like Burton talk, he's, before he kicks, for example, if, when he's kicking for a goal, he talks to himself. I've seen his lips. And like, I've seen, um, semi-walk into a turbo. Do you, what are?

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  No, no, no. So my routine was my, that gave me the confidence. Every time I stood over the ball, I was kicking it through the sticks. There was no other option. Yes, of course I missed, but my mindset was this is going through the sticks. So I've got a routine. Um, I pick out a target, uh, outside the, the upright. Uh, take a couple of deep breaths when I'm standing over the top of the ball. And then I take my five steps back. Make sure I'm still comfortable, wriggle the headgear.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  I'd wriggle my toes as well because I always loved to get in the feeling of where I'm going to strike the ball on my foot. And then I take my two steps, uh, two steps to the left and then half a step back. And when I'm in that moment wriggling my toes, I visualize my walking, visualize kicking the ball, visualize a ball going through the.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  Before you do it, before you run?

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  Yep, and visualize a ball coming back on the tee. Take a breath.

• 1:06:21Speaker 00

  It comes back to you on the tee?

• 1:06:22Speaker 01

  Yep, that's what I visualize.

• 1:06:24Speaker 00

  Did someone teach you that or that's?

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  I was, I've always been a visual person, like, uh, you know, I'd always sit in bed the night before game, visualizing the game plan, right? Visualizing being in parts of the field. All right, this is what I'm doing when we're in this part of the field, like laying in bed and just visualizing it all. So, always been visual and that's just do it for real. And when it come off the foot, I, I would have put my house on it was going through the sticks. Like, it just felt pure and flush.

• 1:06:55Speaker 00

  With the same go for a field goal when you're scrambling it, like,

• 1:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  you know, in an extra time.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what happened, right? So it hits the upright and it crushes my dreams. Because you don't know whether you're going to get another opportunity, right? Because Broncos could have won.

• 1:07:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  So if they, if it didn't go our way, like, I would have been in the fetal position and probably never forgive myself for that goal kick, you know, but.

• 1:07:21Speaker 00

  You got another chance.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  I did get another chance and yeah, I just remember, yeah, so when you, when you're going for a field goal, you want the player, the ball to be outside the 10 metre line. Because if it's inside the 10 metre line, the defence only has.

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're gonna get to you.

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  They get to you. So, you know, if you're 12 metres out from the try line, that's perfect. Then the defensive line, only the markers can try and get you. If you're deep enough, they're not going to get to you in time.

• 1:07:48Speaker 00

  And you're also close, still close enough.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  Still close enough. Exactly right. So, yeah, we got ourselves in a really good position and then, yeah, slotted that field goal and yep, it was a.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's my greatest memory on a rugby league field.

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  Oh, really? It's your greatest memory?

• 1:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  Could I, could I just dig into your, before we go, just dig into your expert opinion for a moment? Um, we're in the middle of the 2026 competition. Um, who do you think are the two teams in the grand final and why?

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Cowboys.

• 1:08:18Speaker 00

  No, this year, 2026.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're in the finals.

• 1:08:22Speaker 00

  Oh, okay, right. Okay, who else?

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Um, look, it's, history shows it's gonna be the top four teams.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, one of the top four, yeah. Cause it's very hard to come from fifth, sixth or seventh or eighth.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Yes, it is. Um, but.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Who would you pick?

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  History's meant to be broken and maybe there's a team outside the eight that could.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  Potentially, but, but like if you had to have a, not that you're allowed to bet or you do bet, but who, who, who do you think's like looking form wise? Probably the, probably the gun, cause I mean, I, I, I mean, obviously I was gonna say the Roosters, but like I, I really, I, I think the Dolphins are playing fantastic football. I mean, I think Penrith is really good. Auckland's, my God, this, New Zealand's, the Auckland, they're, they're a good side.

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  They're a roll.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Uh, I can't, yeah, the top four sides are, it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard to beat those, those top four teams.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  What could go wrong apart from injuries, the usual stuff, but?

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing, right? You need your best players, uh, playing at that time of the year. Um, and those top four teams have a lot of rep players in their team, so they know how to get the big games done.

• 1:09:32Speaker 00

  Is there a team that, apart from North Queensland, but apart from Cowboys, but is there, is there a team? Like each year you watch, I really love watching outside play, you know, there's this, uh, is there a side that you love to watch play?

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  Uh, the Warriors.

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're great, aren't they?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  And the Dolphins.

• 1:09:50Speaker 00

  The do, the speed of the Dolphins, actually speed in defence is mad.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:55Speaker 00

  I mean, it's not just speed in attack.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, those, those two teams are phenomenal, phenomenal at the moment.

• 1:10:01Speaker 00

  It looks like Herbie Farnsworth hates being tackled, like he, like he just, like, he looks like he's filthy if someone grabs hold of him.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yep. So, yeah, those two other teams I, I enjoy.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, cause they're fast and they're quick and they, they, they move the ball a bit.

• 1:10:14Speaker 01

  They've just got, yeah, great ball movement, uh, coming out of the backfield as well. So, yeah, they're, they're both handy.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  Well, Jonathan Thurston, good luck to the Jonathan Thurston Academy, mate. You're doing great work there. And I, I, I'm so happy to be able to talk to you about that today and well done. And I can only say, from every New South Welshman, um, they truly do believe this. What a brilliant career you had, mate.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Thanks very much. Appreciate it.