The Four Psychological Tricks That Get You to Sign Anything (SB1885)

Nobody skips reading a contract because they're careless. Contract attorney Leo Mann spent 30 years writing the fine print that governs leases, car loans, job offers, and gym memberships, and he says the reason smart people sign blind isn't laziness at all. It's four specific psychological pressures, engineered on purpose, stacked on top of each other in the exact moment you're handed the paperwork. Today he walks through exactly how those tricks work, and more importantly, how to spot them before you sign away something you'll regret. What You'll Walk Away With The four psychological traps, stacked together on purpose, that get otherwise careful people to sign without readingWhy the phrase "this is standard" should be one of the biggest red flags in any negotiationA green flag, yellow flag, red flag rundown of common contract moments, from blank spaces to rush deadlines to page-by-page initialsThe hidden clause in shared leases that can leave one person legally responsible for an entire group's unpaid rentWhy the number on the front page of a lease or job offer is often just marketing, and where the real total actually livesThe critical difference between an employment offer letter and the actual employment agreement, and why only one of them is legally bindingWhy severance is almost always more negotiable than employers make it seem, and the two questions worth asking about any financial product before you commitWhy This Matters Now Every adult signs dozens of contracts over a lifetime, apartment leases, car loans, job offers, gym memberships, and the fine print in most of them is written to be skimmed, not read. That's not an accident, and it's not really about intelligence or diligence either. It's about recognizing the exact moments you're being nudged to move fast, and knowing which few sentences in a stack of paperwork actually matter. A little contract literacy doesn't just protect your money, it gives you real leverage the next time someone slides a stack of paper across the table and says, "just sign here." From the Basement A headline about Pepsi's infamous 1996 fighter jet promotion becomes the day's trivia detour, proving that even the biggest brands occasionally get burned by their own fine print, right alongside the rest of us. Resources Mentioned Don't Sign That by Leo Mann https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Sign-That-Consumers-Contracts/dp/B0GXQ3PHNN — Leo's #1 bestselling guide to consumer contractsThe Contract Literacy Movement https://contractliteracy.com — Leo's initiative teaching everyday people to read what they signStacking Benjamins Field Kit https://stackingbenjamins.com/fieldkit — the all-in-one budgeting, credit monitoring, and financial tracking toolStacko Financial Action Month board https://stackingbenjamins.com/stacko — the interactive game with a money move for each square See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  As a little boy, I thought the greatest thing in the world would be to be able to make records. Okay, now let's just play this and you'll see what it sounds like.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  Live from Joe's mom's basement, it's the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 1:31Speaker 00

  I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and it's Financial Action Month in Mom's Basement. And today, we're helping you take better action on all those contracts you sign. You know the ones where you skim to the bottom and sign away who knows what at the gym, online, or when you buy a car, house, or worse of all, start a new job. Today, we'll introduce you to a guy who used to write those contracts and who's here to teach you how to read them well without taking all day. Attorney Leo Mann is here. Plus, that's not all, because you've been looking to win at Stack-O, we're going to find another spot on the bingo board and help you take action on putting more money in your pocket so you can build your

• 2:13Speaker 00

  stack faster. And what goes down fastest of all? You know, because it's delicious? That's right. You'll also get a dose of my incredible, delectable trivia. You won't want to miss it. And now, two guys who would never miss a Monday episode, they're so fun to make, it's Joe and O J J J J G.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  Hey there, stackers. It is Monday Fun Day, and we are rounding out, we're rounding the corner on Financial Action Month. And man, do we have some great actions for you to take today. I am Joe Saul Sehi, super happy that you're here with us. And across the table from me, the guy I'm also happy is super here with us, Mr. OG. How are you, man?

• 3:02Speaker 03

  I am super here with you. That is correct.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  So you, like, are you extra present this morning?

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Super here.

• 3:09Speaker 00

  Here's the question, OG. Have you ever been scrolling along while you're trying to play the next video game, or you're looking at your Apple Terms of Service, or whatever, and they have that, you gotta read it to agree, and you just kind of scroll to the bottom so that it'll actually give you the sign here clicker?

• 3:29Speaker 03

  I can acknowledge that I've been guilty of that. I can stipulate that I have not read every contract in my life put in front of me. Yes.

• 3:37Speaker 00

  I love when, when the company's just like, look, we know what everybody wants to do. Let's just put the button that says scroll to bottom.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  They just do it for you. It's one thing on the video game. It's another thing when we do that because you're at the closing for your new house.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Well, that I wouldn't do.

• 3:56Speaker 00

  Well, right. You're signing for your new car. But as you know, OG, a lot of people do. And Leo Mann is Doug, you said earlier, is here. And he's written a lot of those contracts over the years. And now he's on the other side of the fence, telling you about all the things that he put in those that were pretty complicated. And also, now that he's on the other side of the fence, some of the issues his clients have had. And man, does he have some stories about what happened.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  Nothing's going to endear people to lawyers more than hearing about all the lawyers

• 4:31Speaker 03

  that maybe, you know, don't work for you.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  It is contract week here. And one thing you have to take action on is knowing exactly what you sign. And then on Wednesday, we're going to talk about another big, important contract, which is your estate plan.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  Got an interesting thing about lawyers, actually from, written by lawyers. Maybe we can talk about it a little bit later.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Awesome. Let's dive into that as well. So as you can see, stackers, action-packed show today. We've got a couple sponsors that make sure that we can bring this for you for free every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. So we're going to hear from a couple of them. And then Leo Mann joining us into the basement to talk about what you maybe shouldn't sign before you read the fine print. Well, if you've been with us for any length of time, stackers, you remember all the cool things the Vault did. But guess what? The Vault is now the Field Kit. And the Field Kit adds to it two things, budgeting and net worth tracking. So if you already knew that what you really wanted was to get rid of eight different apps on your phone and make them one, we just gave you two new reasons to

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  do that. Have your financial life in a place where you can find it quickly, and you can go about those financial decisions and get down to the trail of stacking more Benjamins. Where do you find out the details? Head to stackingbenjamins.com/fieldkit for more to get organized. Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in Mom's Basement, what with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is, prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends. Well, that's where Factor

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• 7:55Speaker 00

  Well, think about how many times you've done this, stackers. Somebody hands you a lease, job offer, car loan, contractor agreement, or a screen gives you 47 pages of terms in one brightly colored button that says, I agree. So you skim, you assume the important parts are obvious. You assume somebody would tell you if anything truly dangerous were buried in there. And then you sign. Well, Attorney Leo Mann has spent decades reading, writing, and negotiating the agreements that govern how people work, rent, buy, borrow, and increasingly click their way through life. And today, we're going to borrow his attorney braid. We'll learn what should immediately slow us down, what may actually be negotiable, where expensive surprises might hide, and what to do when we realize we signed something

• 8:39Speaker 00

  that maybe we shouldn't have. Leo, welcome to Mom's Basement, man. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing good, Joe. How are you doing? Well, I'm better now that you're here, because I've done this so many times. I've done this so many times where I've got something in front of me, the person's kind of staring at me. I'm like, oh, okay. And I just go, all right, I'm going to sign this. So before we open a lease or a job agreement, help me understand this one basic mystery. Why do otherwise intelligent people sign legally binding documents they haven't read? Why do we do it, Leo? Oh, you're getting into the meat of it right away, Joe. That's the whole psychology. It's all psychology behind it. This is what happens.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Because it's really a behavioral finance question more than anything that you're asking, right? If, if not reading a contract can cost you your actual house at some point, why does absolutely nobody read them? That's just a query that bothered me for 30 years. People will read 20 consecutive one-star Yelp reviews just to pick a taco place, but, but they'll sign a 40-page lease without moving their eyes. Why do they do this? And for 30 years, Joe, I assumed it was laziness. It's not. It's four psychological traps that stacked on top of each other, going off all at once, like a booby-trapped Jenga game. If you've ever played Jenga. It's just booby-trapped against you. And I'm just going to quickly

• 10:02Speaker 04

  through them, okay? First, reading a contract feels rude, right? Picture the moment. You're there, salesperson smiling at you, your spouse is next to you, radiating let's-go energy, let's get this thing done. To stop and actually read the thing, you become the unhinged person in the room.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't want to second guess your intentions, Leo. I don't want to do that. That's so rude of me. Yeah.

• 10:26Speaker 04

  Right. Yes. If you're going to stop and read it, even for four minutes, you're basically going to stand up and announce to everybody in the room, "I believe every single one of you is trying to rob me." So you sign the thing. You trade years of consequences just to escape four seconds of awkwardness. We are so wired to keep the peace that we will literally set our own house on fire to avoid that tension. That's number one. The second thing they stack against you is the choice feels like it's already over. Let's say you're at the car dealership. You see the car you like, you pick out the options, you negotiate the price. This thing is done. I bought this thing. That's not true. This paperwork is not the annoying troll standing between you and the keys. That's completely backwards.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  The paperwork is the decision. Everything before that was shopping and marketing. The whole system is rigged against you that when the paperwork is slid in front of you, the decision's already made. You've bought this thing. Just stand there, just sign it.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  I'm thinking through this as you're talking, Leo. Number one, the houses that I purchased, in those agreements, I go into this office, I have a woman who's got a stack of paperwork that is, you know, the-

• 11:33Speaker 04

  Don't stop. It doubles as a don't stop.

• 11:35Speaker 00

  It is. And she is like, "I could read all this to you, or we could just sign it." And I'm like, "Oh, God, save us." But she presents it in a way as well, that's like, "Hey, look at all this paperwork. Do you want to be here all day? I don't want to be here all day. Let's just sign the stuff and forget it." Because to your point, we think it's already done. At the car dealership, I've been dealing with this salesman over here. He sends me to this room with, again, a guy with a bunch of paperwork going, "Oh, my God, you're almost done. I got the keys sitting right here. All you gotta do is sign these things and you're out the door."

• 12:02Speaker 04

  And it's standard. The most dangerous word in the English language when you're working on a contract. It's standard. It's boilerplate. Just sign it, right? And I think what you're getting at right there is the third tenant, the third thing they stack against you, or I did, I was part of these, right? I engineered a lot of this stuff when I worked for the brands and the, and the companies and the dealerships, right? It's the authority gap. The person across the desk from you has done this 10,000 times in their career, the salesperson. You're doing it once. And if you're a young guy, young gal, like, this is the first time you're doing it. Your first auto loan, your first car at 25. And they just smile at you and say, "Oh, it's just standard boilerplate language." Your brain doesn't hear a salesperson. And here's an expert giving you the all-clear,

• 12:45Speaker 04

  and it powers down. It's the same instinct that stops you from questioning your doctor, right? Except this doctor works on a commission, and, and you're going to regret it in, in the end. And that's not inadvertent. That's not, just doesn't happen by chance. That's all engineered. There are people that dedicate their lives to the psychology of this stuff. They don't want you questioning anything. They don't want you changing anything. They don't want you doing anything that upsets the process. And that, that leads to our fourth and final thing they stack against you, Joe. And this is what I call organized chaos. It's manufactured confusion. The document is aggressively exhausting. It's dense. You've read these things. You've seen them. It's eight-point font. You barely see. You gotta put your glasses on. It's written in words no

• 13:29Speaker 04

  human has spoken since the Civil War. These are the words they drop in there, that you have no idea what they mean. And then, when something looks impossible to understand, we as humans don't fight. We surrender. And trust me, that's not a bug. The confusion is the strategy. And if I look at all four of these points, this is the biggest one. Somebody got a Christmas bonus for making that paragraph unreadable, that you just glossed over and said, "You know what? You know, because of the other three things stacked against you, I, I'm not going to read this. Like, I'm going to sound like an idiot. This is all, it's all about. The four things: social pressure, decision fatigue, authority gap, manufactured confusion and chaos." And here's the truth that changes how you walk through the world. People don't get wrecked because

• 14:12Speaker 04

  they're dumb. They get wrecked because the entire moment is engineered around exactly how the human brain is wired. And these salespeople and these corporations, they know this. I've sat in the boardrooms for 30 years talking about this. That's just what it is. Those are your four things stacked against you in any contract you sign.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  It is wild how much homework they all do for you. It seems like we should be doing a little homework on our end to get ready for them. And actually, it feels to me like these contracts are getting longer. Is that true?

• 14:43Speaker 04

  That's absolutely on purpose, Joe. And you're absolutely right. They are getting longer. Like I said, there are literally teams of people at the corporations I used to represent, where we'll sit in a conference room for days, making the contracts as obtuse and long as possible. Because the longer it is, the more it goes to that psychology of chaos, right? And confusion. Like, this paragraph, what does this mean? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. What do I do? You know, and that, and that's the thing. This is so stacked against you, these four things that we mentioned, that it's unbelievable to me that corporations get away with it, but they do. This is their playbook. We're going to look at this as a playbook. This is their playbook. And how do I know this? Because for 30 years, I'm the guy who wrote that playbook. And here's the beauty of it. The

• 15:25Speaker 04

  second you know these four buttons exist, these psychological buttons that we just talked about, they completely lose their power when you understand exactly what they're up to. You know, the next time one of your listeners is at a desk, whether it's a leasing agent, whether it's a car dealership, catch yourself. "Wait, I'm about to sign this purely because I don't want to look awkward?" And you'll slow down. Listen, you can always say, "I want to take this home and read it." You don't have to sign it on the spot. That's part of the psychology, the pressure. Once you tell them, "I'm going to take this home and read it," you'll see how quickly all of those really obnoxious provisions disappear.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  I just think to myself, too, that if, if I have to sign this today, is this the person I want to do business with? Is this truly the person I want across the table from me? I want to play a game. You know, Leo, you've heard the show. We like to play, we like to play some games. I think this is a great way to begin to pick your brain on all of these contractual situations. Let's find out whether my contract instincts are completely broken. I'll give you a situation. You tell me, green flag, yellow flag, or red flag. You've been doing this for a long time. You see this thing. Is it green flag, you're fine, yellow flag, or red flag? And they're just give me a quick sentence or two, why?

• 16:41Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  All right. They need my signature today. Green flag, yellow flag, red flag?

• 16:47Speaker 04

  Red flag. They don't need your signature today. There's nothing about it. I'll give you just really quickly an example. My daughter bought her first car. She's in college, went to the Ford dealership, got a little Bronco. I'm trying, in the background, trying to let her be herself and do her thing, right? But I'm in the background, listening to this sales guy, the whole thing, right? He, he's a dad. Oh, you know, this is the safest car for your daughter. Don't worry about the paperwork. And he says, "Listen, in order to get the Ford employee pricing today, it ends today. The deal's over today. If you don't sign today." I go, "Really?" So I scroll on Ford's website, and I look, it doesn't end for 10 days from today. There's no reason to be signed today. Red flag.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  You just mentioned this one. The salesperson says, "Don't worry about that paragraph."

• 17:33Speaker 04

  That's red flag. I, I like to give it a yellow. It's kind of borderline, but I'd give it a red flag because he's telling you not to worry about it. You should be worrying about it.

• 17:43Speaker 00

  There are blank spaces. You've seen this one. Sign it. There's some blanks. We're going to fill it in later.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Absolutely not. That's the oldest trick in the book. This gets into a very obscure clause in a contract called, you've probably heard of it, the integration or merger clause, right? Or the four corners of the document clause. What that basically means is whatever a salesperson has promised to you, he's promised you the moon, it doesn't matter. If it doesn't appear in the contract, it's not legally binding. So those blanks are a trick for this integration clause. So you heard the salesperson say, "Oh, the monthly payment will be 600 a month," right? You look, it's blank. You, you, you sign everything, you go away. Two weeks from now, you get something from the finance company. It's a thousand dollars a month. And you go, "Wait a minute." You go back to the dealership. You say, "Wait a minute. You, you find the guy. You say, "You said 600." He says, "No, I didn't." And you said, "Yes, you did." So, well, regardless

• 18:31Speaker 04

  of I did or not, look at the clause, read it. Integration, merger, whatever's in the documents would hold. I see a number of 1,000 in the document you signed. Memories fade very quickly at car dealerships.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  We had this with my spouse, Cheryl. I was away on business. This actually was part of writing my book. I was hours away from home. She goes into the car dealership to sign. I've already negotiated the entire deal. And she's just going to go sign. And when she goes to sign, Leo, I said, "Hey, just, you know, put me on video." And I had her show me the pages. The numbers were completely different, Leo, than what we had talked about.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  Hundred percent. Happens. What time do you know?

• 19:09Speaker 00

  No, no, no, Leo. You're going to find this completely shocking. The salesman's like, "I have no idea how that happened." I know this wasn't what we talked about, right? And for those of you not on YouTube who watch this, the look on Leo's face like, yeah, right?

• 19:24Speaker 00

  All right, how about this one? They tell me this language is non-negotiable.

• 19:28Speaker 04

  Uh, I'd give that a yellow flag. I'll be honest with you. You know, let's take a gym membership, for example, right? You go in and you sign up for a gym membership and, and they, you know, free T-shirt, you know? You go in there at the beginning of the year, you know, you've got a water bottle sized as if a fire hydrant, ready, ready to go. You bought your little lemon and you sign this thing, right? And you sign it on a tablet with, with your finger that looks like a seismograph reading when you dump the signature.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Here's the thing, like, if you stopped and read that whole thing and something in there that bothered you, let's say auto renewal. That's the biggest problem with gym memberships. Auto renewal. They're not going to change it for you. They're not going to say, oh, whoa, you know, Joe, okay, yeah, no auto renewal for you, my friend. Like, they don't have the authority, but there's things you can do. And that's why I give it an orange flag, because they're things you can do to combat that. So what's the quickest way you can deal with an auto renewal clause, right? Auto renewal clause is basically, you know, if you don't cancel it 60 days before the membership ends, you renew for another year. And you have to send a certified letter, certified mail, like your grandmother used to send you the crisp $5 bill in your birthday card, right? Came certified mail and it has to go to a state two time zones away from you.

• 20:39Speaker 04

  Okay, so here's what you do. You're not going to change that because that was engineered, right? I engineered those things. Like I mentioned to you before, the guy who came up with the certified mail idea, he got a big bonus for that. That's a big one. Like, that's going to get so many people, right? 24 hour fitness, Planet Fitness, that's the whole game that you're not going to cancel.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Got to be certified mail, drives you crazy.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  But here's the thing you can do to combat that. And the reason I give it a yellow flag is this one's on, on us as the consumer, is pull out the one thing you have with you all the time, your phone, right? Your phone has a calendar function. Go eight, nine months from now, 10 months from now, whatever, 60, 30 day cancellation policy. Put it in your calendar right there when you sign to go off. That way you're never caught with an automatic renewal. Put that in your calendar, send a certified letter, send it, you know, with notarized, with the wax seal, whatever, you know, crazy things they require and you do it. So to your question about non-negotiable, I would say most of that's not negotiable, but there are things we can do to combat these tricks.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're not helpless.

• 21:40Speaker 04

  You're not helpless.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the other thing I like about this, that you're really giving me this aha about Leo, is that also by reading the contract, you know what the end game looks like. I mean, when it comes to gym membership, it comes to, let's say I'm leasing a car. What are the conditions at the end of my lease? What are the conditions to get out? We'll talk a little bit about severance in a little bit. Is there severance at the end of this job? What's my out game look like? If I know that going in, I feel so much more empowered, even if I can't negotiate it. What about this one? They want me to initial every page.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  A green light. It's some states, that's just a legal formality. Some states require initial every page. You see some of these cities, New York City, for example, has this new thing about canceling subscriptions and making it a lot easier for the consumer to do so. There's a lot of stuff going on. So there are some, some states that consumer advocacy is a big thing. They make every page be initial. But what good is initial in every page, Joe, if you're not actually reading it? It's almost like a second or we call it the law, belts and suspenders. If you say, well, I didn't know that clause was there. Well, you signed it. Well, yeah, but I didn't read the whole thing. Oh, yes, you did. You initialled every page. It's there for a formality and, and, and just another trick. But I'd give it a green flag. Go ahead and sign, now you initially page, so it's not going to do it, change anything. Read the thing. If you're going to initially read it.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  Take just a second longer. Let's walk through a contract almost everybody encounters, Leo. You find this apartment, the location's right, the rent works. The landlord slides this 12-page thing across the table in a font, as you mentioned earlier, apparently selected by somebody who hates human eyesight. You flip to the end, you sign.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  When I'm looking at leasing an apartment, what are two or three things I might've just agreed to without even realizing it if I didn't read this apartment lease?

• 23:37Speaker 04

  Two or three things, you know, I have in a checklist that I think I provide over to you and give to you listeners for free. I actually look at every contract, whether it's a lease or anything else. And we can definitely take a lease and there's five things I always look at. I had a client, a hedge fund guy, daughter got her first lease for an apartment in college, freshman year, signed it for four years, got a great rent. He did what every great dad should do. He looked, made sure the rent number was right, the lease term was right. You know, he took pictures on the move in, taught her everything. She also had three roommates. One of the biggest thing in the lease, and it's very obscure and it's, it's language that most people don't understand. You probably know what it is. It's called joint and several liability.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  I don't.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  Okay, so joint and several liability means if you have three roommates, like this, this young woman did, this young college student, she took in three roommates, they split the rent farts, those four of them, one fart 25% each, dad paid the 25%. Fast forward to sophomore, middle sophomore year, okay? One roommate's dropped out of school. Another roommate's taken off with her boyfriend. Another one just doesn't want to live there anymore. She's going to go live on her own. She doesn't want to be part of this same one. So dad does the good thing. He says, listen sweetheart, I got your 25% comp, but don't worry about it. Like, we're all good.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  Oh, boy.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  Wrong, right? Wrong. He calls me and he's like, Leo, I just got, he's got a letter for like 200 grand that I owe, right? Personally, because he personally guaranteed it too. What is this all about? I don't understand. Like, only my daughter's there. I am only liable for a 25%. I said, listen, I'll call him George, I said, George, send it over to me. Take a look at it and it costs on page six, because nothing's ever on page one. Nothing, except the terms, the one thing you look at. Hidden in page six is what's called joint and several liability. And now he's on the hook for all of them. And there's really nothing we can do about it. I mean, is there a fix? Sure. Get three, one new roommates, right? Get two, it's afraid it costs to your dad a little bit.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  But that's one of the bigger ones that I see, especially where there's multiple people signing on to a lease, is that joint and several liability. That's one that I would tell your listeners to definitely look out for.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  You even mentioned when I was reading about this, they can even dictate whether you can have roommates or not in the lease.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  That's correct. That's right. You may think you can, they think you can't, you don't read the lease, you have three roommates. All of a sudden, the landlord or the maintenance person's over there, out, two people out, you're not on the lease, get out. And they have the right to do that, right? If you're not on the lease, they can technically toss you out of there, right? After getting eviction proceeding, I'd assume most states. That's the first one I see when you have multiple situations. What if you don't have a multiple situation, multiple tenants? Let's look at a really big one. Auto renewal. This is a big one in the lease. Always look for that. And how do you find that? Like, all leases now, all documents come in DocuSign or Adobe Signature and these, these like trying things. You can now search them, right? Like, time, you go in DocuSign, you hit search, search for the word automatically.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  That is the magic word. That says whether or not your lease is going to automatically renew. And that's a big one, right? You sign up for a 12-month lease and there's, like we said about the gym membership, there's some archaic, you know, voodoo mechanism that you have to use to get out of this lease. So it doesn't auto renew for another 12 months that you're on the hook. And that could be certified mail, it could be, it could be a number of things. Look for that word. And again, are you going to change this? Probably not. Can you put it on your phone as a reminder? Absolutely. Beat them at their own game. So automatically renewal clauses, that's another big one. Joint and several liability, automatic renewals. Now, here's the big one, Joe, that I think your listeners are really like, because it's, you know, financial literacy, right?

• 27:22Speaker 04

  This is what you guys teach, what you preach. What does this lease actually cost me? So my daughter just got her first car in college. She also got her first lease. So I'm there with her at the management company, looking at the lease for her. And we go see an apartment, it costs, it's floor to ceiling windows, beautiful view of the city, loves it. How much is this? Oh, it's $2,200 a month. $2,200, wow, that's a bargain. Whoa, that's a bargain. Then they put the paperwork in front of you, right? Like a DJ, you know, spinning here, you know, doing some scratching. They put the lease in front of you, they shove it in front of you. And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. She goes, okay, dad, let's sign it. $2,200, oh dad, that's in my budget. You told me up to 2,500? Nope, slow down. Let's read this thing. What is actually going on here?

• 28:05Speaker 04

  So you look at the front page and that's where the big friendly font on the front page is. It says $2,200 a month base rent. That's just marketing. Flip the mattress over and add up every hidden fee, convenience fee, management fee, breathing our air tax, right? You're breathing the air, you owe us money. She has a little dog, tiny dog. Oh, the dog has to rent too, 50 bucks a month, you know, 500 deposit. Water, 50 bucks a month. Internet, 70 bucks a month. Cable, 30 bucks a month. Parking space, which they showed us the beautiful new shiny parking garage. Didn't tell you it was 150 a month tacked on to the base rent. So now what you should do in that lease is read the pages, look for other numbers. They are charging you more than the base rent.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  That 2,200, Joe, became close to $3,700 a month. There was 1,500 in hidden fees when you were all said and done.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  That wasn't in her budget.

• 29:00Speaker 04

  That was not, that's not in your budget, sweetheart. Let's go on to the next building. That's what you got to do.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  You know, you mentioned that the word automatic or automatically, either one of those words, like searching for those. I think that's great. Is there, are there any words that I can use to search for that? Or is there a section that's usually under where it says like additional charges?

• 29:19Speaker 04

  Additional charge, yeah, it's always in there, your additional rent. So in any lease, there's base rent and there's additional rent, right? There's two rent components. And if you look at a commercial lease, you know, retail space, then you also have what's called percentage rent, based on your sales. And a consumer facing residential lease, you're going to have two rental amounts. One is the base rent. Second is what they dub additional rent. But additional rent is not just one, one thing. It's, it's a multiple things. It could be buried everywhere, but they'll always say this is part of additional rent. So if you were to want to find those, I would run terms like additional rent, rental charges, total rental amount, because that's buried deep in page 10. The total amount is 3,700 bucks a month, not 22, 37.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  But we put that big shiny, and it was in like 126 point font right on the front there, bolded. 2,200 a month base rent, gorgeous place. Can you believe that? What a deal.

• 30:16Speaker 00

  The time a deal becomes, becomes not a deal. I want to take this because I wanted to use that. And obviously a lot of these terms we're going to look for no matter what we're doing. Right? I mean, you brought up the auto renewal thing on two different types of contracts. That's a problem in a lot of different types of contracts. When you open up any, any contract, Leo, any unfamiliar document, is there anything you're scanning for first? Like just, can you give me the anatomy of how you scan these documents when they first land on your desk?

• 30:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I have a 20 point checklist, which is pretty much in my head. And what I look for, and obviously I've done this for 30 years, so I can find those things really quickly.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 30:55Speaker 04

  Like, for example, you had started to ask about automatically, where is that? It's always in the term section or the section that that's after the term section, which is the renewal of terms. Sometimes called extension of term, option to extend. That's where you'll find the words automatically.

• 31:11Speaker 00

  But it sounds like you don't begin on page one and just read it from top to bottom. You're boom, boom, boom.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  I'm scanning, I'm scanning and I will go back, I will go back and read the lease because that's where unethical, immoral people can sneak things in, right? And you gotta be careful, but most of these things are standard, right? You know, these are all based on form, real estate documents that the state will put out a residential lease, you know, a mortgage, a purchase and sale agreement. They're standard. So for, in order for them to sneak something in, it usually goes to the end because they're pretty lazy. They'll put it at the end. So you find it, but yeah, you're right. And Joe, that's an interesting point. I don't start on page one. I start looking for the things I want. It's human nature, right? You start reading the first five pages, like you're really detailed focus. And then by the time you get to page 20, you're like daydreaming about going to play golf and it doesn't work that way. You've got to look for the most important things.

• 32:01Speaker 04

  And the few I went through with you, I call them the big five system. I went through with you auto renewal. What does it actually cost that we just went through? What's the eject button and what can they change later? Change later is the integration merger, what your wife was subjected to. Those are four. And then the fifth is, does the paper meet the promises? What the salesperson say to you, do this? That's one of the things I'll ask clients for typically is, listen, what did the leasing agent tell you was happening here? What did your real estate broker tell you was going on in this purchase and sale agreement? What did they say? I want to make sure it made it into this agreement.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  A lot of us during our lifetime are going to your contractors. I think almost a hundred percent of us at some point are going to work with a contractor. So this is another agreement that I think is going to be ubiquitous, like each of us either have signed or will sign a rent agreement. Before I sign, walk me through, what do you look through in a contractor agreement that might be a red flag?

• 32:59Speaker 04

  How much money do they want upfront? Number one red flag, go right to that section. States usually regulate how much a contractor can ask for upfront. Some states 10%, some 20, 30. And listen, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, the contractor probably has a ton of money. They've got all by the supplies, the wood, the sinks, whatever you're doing. One, one thing I always look at is how much money upfront. There were a lot of scams down here in Florida, you've probably read about where guys were going to these elderly people saying, put a pool in for the grandkids, you know, salesperson, 50% down. Okay. You know, they write the check right there, they're pressured. The other big one is these Generac salespeople that sell the home generators down here in Florida. Cause of the hurricanes, electricity, 50% down.

• 33:40Speaker 04

  Most of those people in Florida, the swimming pools, and you can look at it on the news, never came back. They dug the hole and never came back, just kept collecting that 50% was a scam. So that's what you look for, that contract, don't sign it. Say, you know what? This is great. We really want the pool for the kids, the grandkids. This is awesome. I want to show this to my attorney or I want to just sit down and read this with Leo Mann's book, whatever they want to do. That's when you do it, right? A, a big red flag of any contractor agreement is how much do they want upfront? That tells you a lot about it because most contractors, first of all, if they're legit, they're making a lot of money. They don't need you to bankroll the purchase of the materials. So 10% is usually the norm. And I think down in Florida now it's 10% and I'd have to look, I've looked at.

• 34:22Speaker 00

  A lot of this Leo might be remodeling. What happens if they find stuff that's unexpected later on? Is that, is that, is that pre-written in the contract? Or is it something that I should expect might be different than the contract?

• 34:36Speaker 04

  It's usually in the contract legally, it's required to be. It's what's called a change order or a change work order, right? So you want to do, and usually, and again, I highly advise this, usually you have a description at the end. It's an addendum which details what the contractor is doing for you. Because you don't want, and I've had clients get in situations where the people show up, they agreed it was $15,000 to remodel a bath. They show up, they demo the whole thing, demolish the whole existing bath and they give you a bill for an extra $5,000. Well, wait a minute, demo was never in there. I didn't say that was part of it. I've got dumpsters I gotta get, I gotta, you know, pay to get rid of this stuff. That wasn't part of it. The part was actually constructing the new, once I had the frame in the box. No, the description is, is everything, right?

• 35:17Speaker 04

  Make sure you to the every nth detail you can think of, make sure you get in that description what it is. Now that gets to your question, what if something happens, right? They, they tear out the wall, there's mold damage, they gotta do some mold remediation. There's a concept called the change order. And what a lot of contractors do, and this is the trick, this is why you have to read it. As they say, if there's a change order, they can unilaterally, unilaterally, meaning one party can change the contract themselves. They can unilaterally change the contract to cover any change orders that weren't anticipated, like hidden latent things that just went there. Not their fault, there was mold, not your fault. Maybe you just bought the house, you know, it's a leak in the, the board, that cement board they put up.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  That's okay. But here's the thing, as a consumer, as the purchaser, as the homeowner, you should have the right to speak with them about what that change order entails and how much it is. They should not be making that decision for you because you can see right there, what I just said, where are you going to get taken advantage of? Like, oh my gosh, I got in here, I need more profit. So this $5,000 mold remediation, I'm charging 20, right? So now the 15 contract is 35. Hey, it's mold. I gotta, you know, the guy buys a hazmat suit at Home Depot or a thing and comes in, doesn't really need it. But he comes in with it like he's hazmat in the place on you. He's got the NASA space pack on, you know, no, no. You should have the right to call a mold remediation place, right? Well, okay, you're the contractor, Joe. Okay, Joe, thank you.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  Thank you for finding that. Not your fault. Totally get it. It's going to cost a little bit more money. I'm going to get a second opinion. That 20 you quoted me for mold remediation, sounds like a lot. I'm going to call the guy down the street over here that advertises mold remediation. Bring him in at $750. I took care of it, thing like that. That's why it should be a bilateral decision in the contract. That's, that is one of the biggest things, Joe. You just hit upon one of the biggest reasons a lot of people come to me. Like I said, I represent a lot of Wall Street bankers, hedge funds, CEOs. They all do this type of stuff to their homes, millions of dollars of renovations. They come to me after they signed the contract, didn't read it and show it to me. These are not dumb people. They're highly intelligent. And they come to me with that exact question, oh, mold remediation, 20 grand, Leo, what is this? I'm getting ripped off.

• 37:27Speaker 04

  Yes, you are. And you signed up for it.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And it was in the contract. Yes.

• 37:30Speaker 04

  It was in the contract. I, I can go negotiate for you. I'll use my magical negotiation skills here and try to get you something better. But you have no right to go find your own remediation company. You have no right. They make the decision how much that's going to be.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  I wanted to pick a few of the different things that we do in our life. All of us are going to have a job at some point. You write about this wonderful woman, Emily Leo. She's excited, getting a bump up in salary, title looks great, reads the paperwork and tells you it all looks standard. These words terrify you. It all looks standard. Why does it terrify you?

• 38:09Speaker 04

  Because standard is the most terrifying word in the English language to anyone who reads a contract. There is no such thing as standard. Look at the definition, it says standard is something neutral, right? This is neutral, you know, it's standard, we do it all the time, it's neutral, it's standard. That is not true. The provisions that were drafted in that contract, and how do I know this? Because I drafted them are one-sided and rigged against you. They're completely rigged against you. There's nothing as standard. What you're describing in Emily, probably aside from, you know, apartment leases, probably the second biggest clients to come to me because of who my clientele are, that they've signed an agreement. They've, and they sent it to me, just had a woman, yes, a huge biotech company, signed on a deal. I signed it. Why did you sign this? Now she wants to leave.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  Why did you sign this? Like you lose all your equity that you got, like, why did you sign this? Oh, they told me it was standard. Nothing is ever standard. That is the biggest lie going in the contract industry.

• 39:03Speaker 00

  Well, let's dive into this because you make a big deal about, there is a thing called an offer letter. And there's a different document called an employment agreement. And these are two terms that you, man, you hammer home. You gotta know the difference between these two things, Leo. So what are they? What's an offer letter and how's it different than employment agreement?

• 39:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. So when we talked about a residential lease, there's the front page has all the terms on it, right? It has your rent, your base rent that we just went through, why that's not true, all of these things. Your offer letter, your employment offer letter has all of these same things. Your base salary is this, this is that, this is that. But if you're looking at an offer letter, most times, especially if you're getting equity, stock options, it'll say, "Subject to the plan," right? What they're talking about is an equity incentive plan that a corporation issues typically under ERISA, so it's tax deductible. And that is the magic words right there. So let's just take that in an offer letter. It says it's subject to the plan. And then by the time you get to the employment agreement, it once again references the plan. What is this plan? And it's magical, right? I don't

• 40:04Speaker 04

  have any right to ask what this plan is. If you get that plan, Joan, if you've ever looked at these, I know you in the business, like if you've ever looked down for clients and private companies, that plan is at the absolute discretion of the board of directors to change, modify, delete, amend, anything they want to do. So your offer letter, it now becomes codified and legalized in the employment agreement, is subject to the plan. So not only you now being legally bound, because the offer letter is not legally binding. It says it right in there. Non-legally binding, you know, its intentions, the legal binding is in the contract, the agreement. You now become not only bound by that employment agreement, but by that equity incentive plan. It goes by a bunch of different names. We call it EIP, Equity Incentive Plan. So yes, I do make a big deal about that because that's where

• 40:47Speaker 04

  most employees at that level, getting jobs, whether you're C level or below C level, you're getting something that looks shiny and pretty and bright and new. That first page of the lease has all the terms of $20,000, $200,000 a month. My daughter was starry-eyed over, "Dad, I came well below budget." No, you didn't. Go read. So the rest of the lease is the legal agreement, is your employment agreement. And that's where they bury all the terms. And you don't read it because it's set up that way. HR departments are notorious for this. They're set up that way.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  You read the offer letter, so you think you're good.

• 41:19Speaker 04

  You're good. It's standard. Oh, this is standard. Everything you need to know is in that offer letter. That's not legally binding. What's legally binding is what you're signing. Read the thing.

• 41:27Speaker 00

  One that surprises creative people or people that want to have what we call a side hustle, Leo, is that, let's say I write a book, I build an app, I record music, launch a newsletter, start a side business while I'm employed. Could my employer claim ownership over this thing that I make while I'm working at this company?

• 41:47Speaker 04

  Hundred percent, hundred percent. There's a document also that goes along with your employment agreement. It's typically in the employment agreement. And we call it a PIIA, which is proprietary information and infringement assignment. What they do to trick you is they say there in the agreement, if you have any pre-existing inventions and they're not going to be owned by the company, list them out on the back on the schedule. So if you were in the process of writing your book and you're joining a company, you could list that out. They would have no rights to it. But what if you forget to list it? What if you didn't read it and even know what that said? Or what if you start writing the book after you start work? There's no going back and amending that schedule. Not happening. Some states are pretty careful. Like if you look at the notoriously, and

• 42:28Speaker 04

  I don't mean that in a bad way, I think it's actually good, states like California, Massachusetts, which is super employee friendly, they do have statutes around this kind of stuff, right? But still, those statutes are kind of rigged in the employer's favor. Did you use, they have this whole test. Did you use their computer to write that book, Joe? Were you sitting there at your desk, utilizing their office space to write that book, Joe? Did you call any of their customers, clients, vendors to try and sell your book? So you're in, it's some, you know, perfectly in that industry, media, whatever. Did you use any of that? Non-solicitation that you're subject to? All of that. So that's scary. I've had a lot of clients come to me because some of the work, a good part of the work I do also, is I work with founders and startups. And that's the first question they ask when

• 43:11Speaker 04

  they come to me. And these are kids like, "Oh my gosh, we've got this great idea. We're going to change the world." Okay. First question I ask them, "Give me everything you signed with your employer. When you were working at Adobe, when you were working for Goldman Sachs, send me everything you signed." And not just what you signed, Joe, there's another X factor there. That's the employee handbook. That's the biggest thing. You agree in the employment agreement that there is this thing called the employee handbook, which somebody at some point is going to send to you on your first day, maybe, along with 10,000 other pages of documents. In there, there's a lot of stuff that govern inventions, that govern non-solicitation, non-compete sometimes are buried in the handbook, and all these things. Non-compete are what they are. They're statutory prohibiting in California. The

• 43:52Speaker 04

  FTC tried to federally ban them, never happened. Lobby's way too big with employers in Washington, so that didn't happen, but.

• 44:00Speaker 00

  The surprising thing to me, though, is you also make a point of, you can, once you know this stuff exists, you can negotiate this. This is negotiable. I got a book. I want to write my book while I'm for you. I want to make sure that in the employment agreement, it says, "I own it." You don't. You can put that in your employment agreement.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  If you read it.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  If you read it.

• 44:21Speaker 04

  Absolutely. That's one of the agreements, especially in this day and age with AI and people who can do AI stacks and, you know, skilled in AI. It's, everybody wants a hire right now, right? Huge salaries. You have leverage. By of all the contracts we talked about today, employment agreement is probably the one where you have the most leverage, especially if you're a sought-after skill set like AI today, you know, what was software developer five years ago. If you're in high demand and people really want you and you're coming from a shop they want you coming from, there's a lot of ability to negotiate. But the problem is, there's two things. One, you have to read the thing. And then after you read it, you gotta know what to negotiate. If you're getting a six-figure salary, spend the whatever it costs you to have a lawyer look at it. But if you don't want to do that, you're not inclined to call a lawyer and get them involved because, again, you're afraid

• 45:06Speaker 04

  of spooking the employer, like, "Oh, I'm not hiring you. Get out of here. I'm not dealing with the lawyer. Go hire somebody else."

• 45:12Speaker 00

  It always just seems to me, Leo, like it's just this insurance policy. You know, I've met people that don't want to do the inspection when they buy the house. Are you kidding me? You're paying how much money for this house? You're not going to have an inspector go through, you're going to waive the inspection? I would never waive the inspection. I wouldn't sign up for something that's going to, you know, be my lifeblood to this income stream without, at the very least, knowing what the hell I'm reading and making sure that my income stream's happening the way that I want it to. And on that note, I mentioned earlier, I want to talk about severance, Leo, before we say goodbye. Can I negotiate severance originally? Because that also seems awkward. If I'm sitting across from you and I'm going to work for Leo, and I'm like, "Leo, I want to talk about my severance."

• 45:53Speaker 00

  Leo's like, "You son of a, you're not even working here yet. You're talking about leaving."

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Yeah. Again, that's the psychology of it, right, Joe? You don't want to feel rude. You don't, you don't want to do anything. Like, this is, if it's your dream job and the salary's more than you were thinking, the bonus, the options, you don't want to do anything to trip that up, right? And that's engineered to do that. Severance is 1,000% negotiable, and it's negotiated all the time. And if I'm representing an employee, a CEO negotiating their contract, their employment agreement, that is the one thing I always negotiate. Now, here's what the employer will tell you. It's, "Hey, okay, it's industry standard to get one month, and then you get one month for every year up to a total maximum of three months of severance." That's not true. That is completely negotiable. And here's the thing, like I would tell listeners today, you got severance in that package,

• 46:43Speaker 04

  right? And you want to negotiate that. They've also gave you a signing bonus, let's say. And read that signing bonus. Read the language. They have no qualms about telling you, "If you leave within the first 12 months, you have to pay us back every penny." So they're thinking on the same thing. "Hey, this, this woman may leave, right? Great executive. We love her, but she might leave too. We just gave her $100,000 signing bonus." They're putting every penny back if you're leaving the first 12 months. They have no problem doing it to you. Talk about what happens at the end. Here's the thing, you have to always be thinking about the worst-case scenario. That's what we as lawyers do, right? That's how our brains are wired. That's what we're taught in law school. What is the worst thing that could happen here? Not the best thing, right? So I think that's part of what our contract literacy movement is about, too. Again, it's not really about changing clauses

• 47:26Speaker 04

  that you can't, like in gym subscriptions that we talked about. It's arming yourself with information, knowledge, and ability, right? Ability to talk to people, ability to say, "Hey, I'm not concerned about this. Like, I have no intention of leaving. Like, I love you guys. I want to spend the rest of my career here." But things happen, right? Something gets taken over. Yeah, it's like a prenup. I talk about those, too. Don't wait till the day of your wedding to do those. But bad move.

• 47:51Speaker 00

  There are so many areas. You talk about healthcare. You talk about wedding venues or event agreements. Online terms of service? Oh my goodness, the number of times I've scrolled on Apple all the way to the bottom just to click that button.

• 48:03Speaker 04

  Give up one of your kidneys. Joe, can I give you a great story about terms of service? I've got to give you this story for you.

• 48:09Speaker 00

  Oh my God, yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 04

  This is great. Okay. This is the GOAT of paperwork, greatest of all time of paperwork. And almost nobody who signed it knew they did. This is my favorite contract in human history. Picture it, Joe. It's April Fool's Day, 2010. A video game retailer in the UK called Game Station decides to run a little experiment. Overnight, some beautiful unhinged genius in their legal department slips one new paragraph into the terms and conditions. What did it say, Joe? Here is, and I'm barely paraphrasing this, okay? "By placing an order today for the new Call of Duty game, you agree to grant the company a non-transferable option to claim," are you ready for it? "Your immortal soul." I'm not kidding. Your soul,

• 48:51Speaker 04

  Joe. "Not stock credit, not your email address, your eternal soul in fine print." And here's the thing, Joe, they were thorough. And listen, that's not all it said, right? You could maybe gloss over a couple of words, right? It was explicit in the contract a couple of times that if they ever chose to collect your soul, they would notify you with six-foot-high letters of fire delivered by one of our duly authorized minions, okay? Which means there's an HR department in hell, right? Talking about severance, there's an HR department in hell that's going to get this. And here's the thing, they're not playing Satan. It was a joke, right? They put a little link right next to that said, "If you'd like to keep your soul, click here." And the people that did that got a $5 voucher towards the new Call of Duty.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Oh, that's so cool.

• 49:34Speaker 04

  I got a question for you. What percentage of people do you think actually kept their souls that day? 7,500 people bought the game that day?

• 49:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I didn't even know, percentage-wise, I was going to say, number might be two.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, well, it was a little bit more than that. So 12%. Yeah, 12%. That shows you that there are people out there doing this. We've got to get everyone to do this through contract literacy. But that still means 7,000 people legally signed away their eternal souls to this company. Now, that's a joke, right? And these people weren't dumb. They just scroll through like everyone does. I've done it. Like I said, signing all these Apple things, all these Apple products. I'm sure some nut job at Apple put in there to give them your kidney, right? Somebody said, these people, you know, lawyers have a really weird sense of humor, I tell. So somebody probably did it at Apple, too. But this is a joke. This was fake. It was done as an April Fool's joke. Listen, the landlord who puts this kind of stuff in a lease isn't joking. The gym isn't joking. The car dealership

• 50:30Speaker 04

  isn't joking with your wife. I just had to tell you that story, though. That's one of my favorites in 30 years. Great attorney humor. Sorry.

• 50:38Speaker 00

  That is fabulous. There's something for everybody. Yeah, it saddens me that it's that few people, even though I was, I'm actually pleasantly surprised that it was that many people.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was, I was too. Well, it's statistics. Yeah, me too.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  Leo's book is called, Don't Sign That: Consumers' Guide to Contracts Running Your Life with this hilarious, oh, God, why are you signing that?

• 50:57Speaker 04

  A big X.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Graphic on the front. When Leo and I were first talking about this, we were changing networks. And so we were going from Westwood One Cumulus to Gamut, where we are now. And it was interesting, Leo, because I'd just been reading your chapters on employment agreements, and it certainly was an employment agreement, but it was close. It was a distribution agreement.

• 51:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, sure.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  I was promised that the new network was going to send me to an industry conference each year. Like, that was part of our discussion. And because I'd been reading your book, getting ready for this, I went through the contract, and it wasn't in there. And it just, it was nowhere in there. And I'm like, no, no, no. This is like the offer letter and the employment agreement. He said at first it freaked him out that I read the agreement, but then he was like,

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Awesome, dude.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  This is a financial show. They should know how to read the agreement. I gotta tell you, Leo, I got it in writing because of you.

• 51:53Speaker 04

  Good. I'm glad you did. And had you not read it, had you just signed it, like most people do, then, you know, the conference comes up, you go to it, you submit the invoice. What are you talking about?

• 52:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 52:05Speaker 04

  What are you talking about? Why am I doing that? You say, no, you promised me. So, well, let me, hold on, Joe. Let me look at the agreement. It says right here, I don't see in the agreement, it says integration and merger. Everything we agreed upon is in the four corners of this document. Show me where it is.

• 52:18Speaker 00

  So Leo has already made me money on this book.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  I know.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  I'm very glad, Joe.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  I know it will help you too. Don't sign that. You can get it at leoman.com, or I'm assuming wherever books are sold at Amazon.

• 52:32Speaker 04

  Sold, Amazon. Yep. It's a number one bestseller on Amazon. Please read it.

• 52:35Speaker 00

  Well, and if you thought this was entertaining, I'm thinking about the last time I read a book about contract law that I found entertaining. This may be the first one. Thank you for being a mentor to our stackers, Leo, today. I super appreciate your time, and I think we helped a lot of people read the contract.

• 52:53Speaker 04

  Thank you, Joe.

• 52:55Speaker 05

  Hey, this is Lou Mongello from WDW Radio, and when I'm not at Walt Disney World or sharing my passion for Disney World or eating, I am stacking Benjamins.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Hey there, stackers. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and huge thanks to Leo Man. Look at all the things that can go wrong when you don't think enough about the wording. Case in point, how about what happened to Pepsi back in 1996? A clever ad exec came up with the idea of a loyalty program where fans could earn Pepsi points and trade them in for real items like three sodas or maybe a TV. Cool stuff. Well, in their advertising, these not-so-smart execs featured a protagonist who won, well, something that cost a lot of money. Sadly, someone came to claim the fake prize, prompting one of the biggest, most publicized lawsuits of the 1990s when Pepsi didn't want to pay up.

• 53:52Speaker 05

  What was the big prize that Pepsi didn't want to hand over? You know, because it was a price worth only $37.4 million at the time? I'll be back right after I see if Joe's mom will create a window washer loyalty program, maybe offer free lasagna nights for participants. Seems like a great idea to me, ma.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  Well, you may know that chaos is the name of the game here in Mom's Basement, what with guests coming in and out, Cooper the cat getting in the way, Doug being, well, being Doug. The holidays make it even worse because it's all about food and big meals. And the problem is prepping for those takes forever. But what about those between meals, right? The meals between those huge, huge, huge bookends? Well, that's where Factor comes in. Factor is made with high-quality ingredients that you recognize and trust with over 175 banned ingredients. You always know you're eating something that's good for you, even when you don't have time. It's ready in two minutes, whether it's lunch between meetings or dinner after holiday shopping.

• 55:01Speaker 00

  Factor requires zero prep, cleanup, or effort from you or mom, so you can focus on everything else in your day. Factor even has heart-smart options like the Green Goddess Bara Monday with tomato, rice, peas, kale, and green beans, or the enchilada-style chicken and sweet potatoes. Those are so good. They're crafted with lean proteins, fiber-packed fruit and veggies, and healthy fats. Try those out. Your heart and your taste buds will thank you. For Cheryl and I, Factor has been a great way for us to stay busy and focus on family life and beating mom at card games.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  I use Factor, and you should too. So let's eat real, stackers. Head to factormeals.com/sb50off. Use code SB50OFF. And you know what? You're going to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until December 31st, 2026. That is code SB50OFF at factormeals.com, SB50OFF at factormeals.com. See website for more details. There is a financial conversation that's coming to millions of American families, and there's a pretty good chance nobody wants to be the person who starts it. Inheritance. And here's why that matters.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  An estimated $124 trillion to heirs in charity is expected to be transferred by Americans over the next 20 years. It's an extraordinary amount of money, but Kiplinger's research found that 51% of adults and their parents, get this, never talk about money. And there's a pretty big disconnect. 47% of parents expect to leave a meaningful inheritance, while only 24% of adult children expect to actually receive one. Nearly 30% of parents don't even have a will in place. Maybe it's time we talked. Kiplinger calls it the trillion-dollar talk, a conversation about inheritance,

• 57:03Speaker 00

  estate planning, wills, and the questions families should be asking before those decisions become urgent. Because knowing what your family wants and having a plan for it can be one of the most important financial conversations you will ever have. Ready to start yours? Visit kiplinger.com to learn more about the trillion-dollar talk and what this historic wealth transfer could mean for your family.

• 57:29Speaker 00

  It's incredible, at a small company like Stacking Benjamins, how one, one hire makes all the difference in the world. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break. Hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on, you need the right hire. This is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. When workplace chaos hits and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen at other sites. Get matched with and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Reach candidates that meet your specific criteria like skills, certifications, or locations. Sponsored jobs boost your job post on search results, so you can reach the people that can help your business thrive. Plus, with Indeed Sponsored Jobs, you only pay for results. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, listen to this. Companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. And sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos,

• 58:54Speaker 00

  that's a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And guess what? Our stackers are going to get a $75 sponsored job credit. That's you to help get your job the premium status it deserves at indeed.com/podcast. Just go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support Stacking Benjamins by saying you heard about Indeed in Mom's Basement. Indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  Hey there, stackers. I'm lasagna lover and guy who maybe needs to brush up on his persuasive argument skills, Joe's mom's neighbor Doug. I described to you earlier how Pepsi stepped in it in a big way by getting too clever during an ad campaign. In one ad, they showed a guy who redeemed 7 million Pepsi points into what item that was valued at $37.4 million at the time, or over double that amount today, an amount that an actual person really tried to cash in. It was a Harrier fighter jet. How sweet would that be? Ultimately, I know, right? Ultimately, Pepsi didn't have to pay out the fighter jet after

• 1:00:13Speaker 05

  a judge, lame judge, ruled that no reasonable person would have taken that seriously. But taking a loyalty program for window washing? I don't think Joe's mom has taken that seriously enough. I'll work on her as I send you back to Joe and OG.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  I'm not sure you know who's across the table from you on that negotiation, Doug. That might be, might be a little difficult one.

• 1:00:37Speaker 05

  I've underestimated her.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, she may have some terms of service that she's got listed somewhere that you signed without reading it. Big thanks to Leo, man. Some real horror stories there. A good reason to OG when, you know, the person across the table is going, come on, just sign it. This is all standard. I love Leo's discussion around the phrase, this is just standard. There is no such thing as standard. It's all, it's all different every time and it's made for you. And listen, even if it is standard, the thing that they created boilerplate, you don't know what's in that boilerplate.

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  And with 7,000 pages of whatever, right? I mean, it can be standard, but I still need to go through it.

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  Yes. I love the, so that might be one, stackers, that you go back and re-listen to because I love his points on exactly what to flip to when you go through those contracts. So big thanks to Leo. Hey, let's cover a headline.

• 1:01:33Speaker 06

  Hello, darlings. And now it's time for your favorite part of the show, our Stacking Benjamins Headlines.

• 1:01:39Speaker 00

  Our headline today comes to us from Investment News. Investment News is a place where financial pros go to get news and what's going on in the business. We love covering this on Stacking Benjamins because of OG's place on the other side of the table from where most of our stackers sit and also where I used to be. And what I think a lot of the time is there needs to be this marrying of what advisors you're thinking about and what individuals are thinking about. But in this case, it's a little bit of beware what you read. This is from just about a week and a half ago. "Pre-retirees want guaranteed income," is the headline, "but advisors aren't excited to deliver." This is written by, ostensibly it's written

• 1:02:24Speaker 00

  by Leo Almazura, but I get the feeling that Leo OG might have just taken a life insurance industry PR piece and pumped it out. But let's see, because the first half of this I like. Nearly nine in 10 Americans approaching retirement have thought about how they will generate income once their paychecks stop. Nine in 10. What's the 10th person doing, Doug?

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  They're reading a contract.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  They're thinking about donuts? I don't know. Like nine, nine in 10 of us are thinking, how will I generate income? 10th one's like, I'll, I'll deal with that later. The new research from LIMRA, by the way, what does LIMRA stand for? They got rid of these words, but what it used to mean was Life Insurance Market Research Association. So LIMRA has this study called a Retirement Income Readiness Report. They did this in April. 486 pre-retirees, 804 retirees, all age 45 and older. They found that most respondents called themselves reasonably prepared. 59% of pre-retirees and 63% of retirees scored themselves on the

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  high end of the 0 to 10 preparedness scale. What was most interesting here, and let's dig into this. LIMRA found that confidence tracks closely with financial guidance rather than assets alone. Pre-retirees working with a financial advisor or planner reported high preparedness 77% of the time versus 47% of the time for those without an advisor. Yet only 40% of pre-retirees currently work with an advisor and just 8% of the least prepared group does. So I don't know, maybe that 8% needs to look for a different advisor, but

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  92% of people that are in the least prepared version feel like, I don't know if they feel like it's because they don't have an advisor OG, but they're not getting any financial help.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Okay, so maybe they should, if they want.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, if they want, but I think just this idea of, listen, whether it's an official person with a CFP tag or not, starting to dig in and get help from people around your financial situation to see how you're doing versus how maybe you, you should be doing, I think is an important, is an important first step for anybody.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  At the end of the day, when it comes to financial planning, especially for retirement income, you have to have an idea of what it is that you're trying to get to. A lot of times, I mean, I'll give you a perfect example of this. A couple of weeks ago, I was talking to somebody and they were, you know, trying to gauge out their retirement, kind of a late 40s, early 50-year-old couple and, you know, making pretty good money, $200,000, $300,000 a year, 250 or something. And they say, you know, just, I've heard about the 4% rule, you know, make 250 grand. I don't understand how I'm going to get to 5 million bucks. Like, this is just nuts. Like, I just don't see a way to do that, you know, where we are today. But the reality was, was that after you took out their taxes and all their savings, which they were saving quite a bit, and their house payment, which was going to be paid off by

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  the time they got to retirement, their living expenses were closer to $90,000 a year. Well, $90,000 a year versus $250,000 a year, just using that ballpark figure of 4% is a materially different retirement lump sum needed than the other number. And all this comes back to, you know, just get a sense of where, like what reality is, you know, and I don't like the comparisons of like where I should be compared to other people, but I think it's more about where you comparison you should be based on what you're trying to do. And if you've got garbage data going in on the front end, you know, and in this person's case, it was very discouraging. They're like, why even bother? Like, I'm going to work till I'm 80 because there's no chance I'm going to have $5 million. And by the time I get

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  to 5 million, then I'm going to need 10 because, you know, inflation and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, no, no, no, you barely need 2 million. You're like spending 90 grand. Plus, you know, you've got this, you know, social security, you know, if you want to count on that. It's like, changed it from being a never going to retire to sooner than later type of situation.

• 1:06:34Speaker 00

  There's so many times in our life where having just an accountability partner works so much. You're doing these amazing bicycle rides now, OG. You're not doing this alone. You've got accountability buddies who are tackling this stuff with you.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  We are tackling it and more specifically giving each other, you know what, when a day goes by and it's like, yo, I didn't see your name on Strava today. Are you sick? Are you stealth training?

• 1:06:59Speaker 00

  That's great. It's the whole reason why I work out at the gym with groups is because I know myself well enough to know that if I don't have a group, I won't go. Like, I just don't, I should go. I know I should go. But if I have a group, same thing, OG. I, I just think that having that accountability works. And most of the time, I feel better. And to your point, when I get the news from the pro, like I get the news about my dental work or because I got the dentist appointment coming up soon, or whatever it is, generally the dentist is like, hey, either it's good news that I didn't expect, or the bad news is positioned in a way that, hey, if we just work on this now, it's going to be great

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  in six months. And it always is. It always, it always is. So people want to get help. Well, Brian Hodgins, Senior Vice President and Head of LIMRA Research says, people also say they value guaranteed income. Imagine a life insurance research study that wants to know if people value guaranteed income. That's pretty shocking, OG.

• 1:08:01Speaker 03

  Who wants guaranteed anything? I would love to have guaranteed. I would like a guaranteed pay raise for the rest of my life of 20%.

• 1:08:10Speaker 00

  And just think about the ridiculousness.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Per month.

• 1:08:14Speaker 05

  Compounding.

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  Escalating, right?

• 1:08:19Speaker 00

  Just think about the ridiculousness of that question. Do you want guaranteed income for life? Who doesn't want guaranteed income for life? Roughly seven in 10 respondents said they prefer retirement income that includes a protected component, social security, a pension or an annuity, over relying solely on portfolio withdrawals. Answer, anybody going to vote no on that? I don't know who the three people are that would say no.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:08:50Speaker 00

  No idea. Nah.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  They're already billionaires.

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  Forget it.

• 1:08:55Speaker 00

  Yet only 25% of pre-retirees believe their protected income sources will actually cover essential living expenses compared with 52% of current retirees who say those sources fully cover their basic costs today. So the number of people who are in pre-retirement OG represent a smaller percentage that are going to have covered all their expenses covered than people that are retired right now. With pensions going away, that just makes sense. Like that tracks that there'd be a smaller number, doesn't it?

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Speaker 00

  I feel like that insurance industry building a case here that's not real going, hey, there's all these retirees that have it and love it and too many pre-retirees don't have it. Well, as we get away from pensions, it just makes sense that fewer people would have it. But they then turn that immediately to why advisors are allergic to annuities. If client demand for guaranteed income is broad, they write advisor adoption of the product built to deliver it has lagged.

• 1:09:59Speaker 00

  Rich Romano, chief executive of FIDX, told Investment News earlier this year, the hold up around annuities. What do you think Rich is going to say the hold up around annuities is?

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  It's advisor education.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Comes down to the operational burden of selling them. The amount of hoops one must jump through to sell an annuity versus a traditional investment's night and day, Romano said, pointing to inconsistent carrier paperwork, licensing hurdles and assets held away from a client's primary account that complicates quarter reviews.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  That's the reason.

• 1:10:28Speaker 00

  Stackers, let's just cut to the chase here. If your advisor is allergic to selling you an annuity and they're a good advisor that you trust, it has nothing to do, I believe it has nothing to do with the paperwork. OG, do you think it has anything to do with the paperwork?

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, the paperwork does suck. I will cop to that.

• 1:10:48Speaker 00

  He's not wrong.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, paperwork sucks and every company's paperwork is different, which sucks. And unlike, you know, we do business at Schwab, so all of our client accounts are at Schwab. So we know how to open brokerage accounts and Roth IRAs and traditional IRAs and donor advice funds and like, that's all on that platform. But if you're like trying to shop annuities, you have to shop 10,000 of them. And then, yeah, the paperwork does suck. What sucks more is the fact that they suck. And, you know, we come back to this from time to time on the show. And if you're listening for the first time ever today and you're like, oh, thank God, somebody also hates annuities. I don't think we hate them. I think they're just misapplied. I think a lot of times people put the stake in the ground just to have a little bit of

• 1:11:30Speaker 03

  clickbait and, and something to argue about on LinkedIn or whatever. And I think that we come down on the, on the fact that there's a lot of great financial products out there and they all have a purpose. They all have a key that goes in them that unlocks the Tumblr to like being a perfect fit for the perfect scenario. And the problem that exists is not the product, although they can be, you know, themselves miss, you know, mismanaged. But, you know, looking at it from a big picture, it's the application of the product. It's when the incentives are aligned incorrectly. It's when a person who calls himself a financial advisor, but is really an insurance agent. And you know what else is hard besides selling life insurance?

• 1:12:15Speaker 03

  Getting a frigging CFP or starting a company and getting it registered by the SEC or your state agency. And that paperwork is a thousand times harder than an annuity application because you have to like have lawyers drafted, you know, speaking of, and guess what? The state does read your documents and they go, hey, this paragraph that you have in here, we don't like this. You need to redo this. And that's a pain in the butt. Sometimes easiest solution, if I'm a sales guy is to go, well, what's the thing that I can sell tomorrow to put food on my table? That's a gross generalization and probably not totally fair for everybody. But just as many people, I'd say frankly, probably more people have the opinion that annuities solve every problem or life insurance solves every problem or whatever.

• 1:13:01Speaker 03

  Just as many of those people that have that opinion or more people have that opinion than what our opinion is, I think, which is, yeah, annuities can have a purpose. If you're solving for this purpose, there, it's a tool that can be used. As it stands from an industry standpoint, they generally suck because it's just too costly and all these other reasons.

• 1:13:23Speaker 00

  Well, Limmers Report actually identified what they called a parallel barrier on the consumer side, cost concerns and reluctance to lock up savings. And you know what? I think to put a pin in this OG, if your advisor isn't concerned about those same two things, if your advisor said, you know what? Here's the cost versus a lot of annuities and they show you that it's very low cost. And then second, they show you why you should be able to overcome that reluctance to lock up savings. Or they say, listen, I'm reluctant to lock up your savings, but here's why I think it applies.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 00

  And they can provide a cognizant argument, a very well reasoned argument of, well, well to do this. I think that's when it's time to start listening. But if the advisor covers up the fact that they're expensive or covers up the fact that you're going to be locking up a lot of your savings, that's when the trouble begins.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  I mean, two very simple questions that you can ask if this comes up in a conversation with anybody ever is how much does it cost? And how do I get my money out? And if you're not satisfied with both of those answers, next.

• 1:14:26Speaker 00

  So I think to put a pin in that stackers, beware of what you read. Look at what's the slant? What's the point of view of the author of the piece? Annuities aren't all bad yet. I think you need to start with a planning perspective and then maybe come to whether an annuity works or not.

• 1:14:45Speaker 00

  Into the back porch, we have financial action month going on all month long. We're playing a game like bingo called Stacko. Hopefully stackers, you can start reporting in our basement Facebook group that you have been completing your Stacko boards. Love to see that. I've had seven people so far write me that they have completed their Stacko boards. Nice job, stackers. OG, pick off another square. What are we going to help people do today in financial action month?

• 1:15:11Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness. Um, you know, cause I'm, I'm refinancing a bunch of stuff right now. I'm going to say number 14. Check your credit score. And I would change this a little bit. Can I make an amendment to the?

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Can I offer an amendment for discussion?

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  To the gentle person from Texas? I would offer a credit score. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it matters. Credit report is what I want you to check.

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Oh, good point.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  So I would say, uh, get on annualcreditreport.com, get your free ones. I mean, frankly, you should be able to get a free one. Just about every credit card offers free, all this stuff nowadays anyway. So you should be able to get it. Actual credit report, go through it, just make sure it's right. Make sure there's nothing that jumps out at you. That's a little like, I didn't know that that account was still open or since when do I have a balance on this card or whatever? And do that for your family too, your spouse or kids, if they're over 18.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  And then after you do that, freeze your credit report. It's very simple, takes literally under five minutes to freeze everybody in the household. Kids, grandkids, nieces, nephews, podcast hosts, you guys can freeze everybody's credit report. It just takes a few clicks of a button. You just literally type in TransUnion, freeze. Equifax, freeze. Experian, freeze. And it will show you how to do it. You just like tap a button, it says, boom, it's frozen. What's cool is, is then if you go to apply for something, so I know this because I'm going through right now. So we're trying to refinance mom's house because it's an arm. When I get to the company, they're like, hey, we need your TransUnion report unfrozen.

• 1:16:48Speaker 03

  You go online, you click thaw, huh? Get it? Freeze thaw. And you can thaw it for a period of time, like two weeks, bang, and it will automatically refreeze, unlike the stuff that's in Doug's freezer. So check it, freeze it, do not refreeze it.

• 1:17:04Speaker 00

  By the way, if you have the field kit, you get your credit score once a month. You just press one button in the credit area and you're able to get that every single month. And so you can go through your credit report very easily by doing that, by being a little bit organized. So whether it's the field kit or just going directly to you want to go, you've got, you've got lots of resources. All right. That's going to do it for today. Big thanks to Leo Mann for hanging out with us. Hopefully you now are going to, at the end of today, check your contracts and check your credit score. I think that is check your credit report rather. That's a big one that OG picked today. All right, Doug, you've got it from here, man. What should we have learned on today's show?

• 1:17:43Speaker 05

  Well, Joe first, take some advice from Leo Mann and read the contract before you sign it. If the person across the table becomes indigent, it's probably because they're hiding something. Oh, wait, that says indignant. Well, either way, they're probably hiding something.

• 1:17:58Speaker 00

  And you know what they're hiding? That they might be indigent if you don't sign it. Cause they're trying to scam you out of a bunch of money. So both apply, Doug.

• 1:18:06Speaker 05

  I'm good even when I don't know I'm being good. Second, want lifetime income? Sure, we all do, but there are often better ways to create it than to sign your money away to an insurance policy. Do your homework and finish your financial plan before investing. But the big lesson? Don't sign contracts with Joe's mom. Who knew she even included the certified letter wording in my window washing contract? Hey, ma, can I just tell you when I'm done with the windows? I mean, why a certified letter? Might have overshot the landing on that one.

• 1:18:41Speaker 05

  Thanks to attorney Leo Mann for joining us. You'll find Leo's new book, Don't Sign That! The Hidden Clauses, Legal Traps and Fine Print That Can Cost You Thousands on amazon.com. You'll find links at our show notes page at stackingbenjamins.com. This show is the property of SP Podcast LLC, copyright 2026 and is created by Joe Saul Sehi. You'll find out about our awesome team at stackingbenjamins.com along with the show notes and how you can find us on YouTube and all the usual social media spots. Come say hello. And oh yeah, before I go, not only should you not take advice from these nerds, don't take advice from people you don't know. This show is for entertainment purposes only.

• 1:19:26Speaker 05

  Before making any financial decisions, speak with a real financial advisor. I'm Joe's mom's neighbor Doug, and we'll see you next time back here at the Stacking Benjamin Show.

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  It's incredible at a small company like Stack and Benjamins, how one, one hire makes all the difference in the world. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break. Hoping the right people see your job posting isn't the best growth strategy. When the pressure's on, you need the right hire. This is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs is a boost whenever you need to find quality talent. When workplace chaos hits and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post even seen at other sites. Get matched with and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Reach candidates that meet your specific criteria like skills,

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  certifications, or locations. Sponsored jobs boost your job post on search results. So you can reach the people that can help your business thrive. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs, you only pay for results. People are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, listen to this. Companies like yours have made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. And sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed are 95% more likely to report a hire than non-sponsored jobs. So spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes, less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, that's a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. And guess what?

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• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  So apparently this week is lawyer week and you know, Instagram elgos know that. So you know, I've been seeing some content from some lawyers. And you know what? This is kind of the time where people are passing the bar exam. So they're kind of starting to be real lawyers now. And I thought this was a pretty good piece of advice. It's kind of a Q and A that somebody wrote into this lawyer and he posted about it.

• 1:22:51Speaker 07

  Dear briefing attorney, what kind of car should I buy as my first car since I passed the bar exam? Okay, this is a really critical question that you've asked, and I'm glad that you've come to me with it. It's really important that you uphold the legal profession. The fact of the matter is, is that when you're driving around the courthouse or even your office building, other lawyers need to see you and they need to see you riding something that's awesome. You can't be in a Mazda 3 from 1997 with hard plastic tires. That's a disgrace to the profession. In fact, I think you can get a grievance over that. So let's not do any of that. If for instance, you've got a job that may be in a tall building and you know, you're not going to be seen that much in the car.

• 1:23:36Speaker 07

  Maybe you can get away with something more affordable. Park in the back of the parking garage where none of your other coworkers can see you. You'll, you'll just sort of lose aura points and absolutely under no circumstances, park where any potential client could see it. If you're somebody who needs to go to the courthouse, there's some Maseratis that are kind of cheap and used. And a lot of people don't know that they're kind of pieces of [BLEEP]. But it's a Maserati and you know, your client sees you driving away and that that might be kind of a more affordable option. But really, this is a good opportunity for you to get really comfortable with excessive debt. And it's really worth it because again, your client expects their lawyer to be driving away and it bends. They just do.

• 1:24:20Speaker 07

  And you're really letting down the entire planet by not doing that for them. So I'm glad you've come to me with this and I hope you make the right choice.