Nico Carney Believes in Evolution

Welcome! Today’s guest is the hilarious Nico Carney! Nico and Caleb talk community engagement, winning over difficult audience members, the decline of smart people, evolution, and so much more! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Nico! @nicocarney Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Try Domino's Parmesan Stuffed Crust Pizza today at dominos.com Find exactly what you’re booking for at Booking.com. Book today on the site or in the app. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at https://RocketMoney.com/SOTRUE Try TruFru today - the Blue bags with fruit found in the freezer aisle! Shop now at https://Fabletics.com/sotrue to get seventy to eighty percent off everything when you sign up as a new VIP Go to https://www.squarespace.com/SOTRUE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code SOTRUE. So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Virginia Muller. All episodes are filmed in The So Trudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. A Wave series. wavesportsandentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:34Speaker 04

  I read this book called Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg. That's like a history of trans people through space and time. I'm trans, I'm not a fetishy guy or something.

• 1:42Speaker 05

  No, he says don't listen to him.

• 1:45Speaker 04

  Caleb wanted to get a really fetishy guy on the podcast to talk about trans people.

• 1:50Speaker 05

  I said, Nico, you can come on, but you have to talk about your trans fetish.

• 1:56Speaker 05

  Today's episode is sponsored by Domino's. Thank you, Nicole. Let's start the episode with a thank you to Nicole. Thank you, Nicole. Nico, how's it going, dude?

• 2:04Speaker 04

  Hey, what's going on?

• 2:05Speaker 05

  How you been?

• 2:06Speaker 04

  I'm good. I'm excited to be here. I've been, I'm enjoying the So True studio, enjoying our time.

• 2:10Speaker 05

  We're talking about the So True video.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, we're getting into it. I hear that there's a different thing every week, so I gotta...

• 2:16Speaker 05

  There's a different thing every week?

• 2:17Speaker 04

  I gotta tap in.

• 2:17Speaker 05

  God damn it. No, we're gonna fix it. We're gonna stay on the set this time.

• 2:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:21Speaker 05

  Uh, what's been going on with you? Tell me everything.

• 2:22Speaker 04

  Damn, I've just been enjoying the, the spring weather, trying to, you know, get outside, trying to hang out with people, trying to just like, I don't know. Try to, I'm trying to live in the moment while also not feeling so much the collapse of the universe all, all at once.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  And the collapse, the, the collapse of at least society is seemingly upon us.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Yes, impending doom, all that stuff. But I'm trying to just, you know, take it day by day and enjoy my life and make other people's lives better, hopefully.

• 2:51Speaker 05

  You, I mean, my perception of you, I know that perception is not always reality, but my perception of you from the times that we've been around each other and from what I see of you, I feel like you're really hanging out. I feel like you're seeing people. Like, I feel like you are seeing people.

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to hang out. I like to...

• 3:05Speaker 05

  You know everybody, you're around, like, I feel like you're getting out there.

• 3:08Speaker 04

  That's so funny. Okay. Well, I mean, I think so, yeah. Like, I, I, I'm definitely like pretty social. I, I've been playing a lot of pool with my friends. I mean, that's a lot of what I've been doing recently.

• 3:16Speaker 05

  Are you good at pool?

• 3:17Speaker 04

  I've gotten good.

• 3:18Speaker 05

  That's, I know that's right. Let's go, brother. Hell, yeah.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  My buddy Jesse and I, we have been playing a lot of pool. She's between tech jobs right now. She's a comedian as well, but she has finagled her way into these like six-figure tech jobs. She's like sort of qualified for it. Nobody looking at that.

• 3:31Speaker 05

  Nobody Google her. Do not look into this.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  And, uh, so she and I have like similar, just like weird, you know, like free time during the afternoon. So we've been going to some bars to play pool and we got really good. And then we were, um, we did a tournament at, uh, the Johnsons in Bushwick on Tuesday. And it was like, I mean, it's such a, like, I, I've come into so many bars over the last five years, you know, to do stand-up open mics or whatever. Bar shows and stuff and I don't feel like uncomfortable walking into these spaces. It's like, whatever. Like, I like my anxiety for that is like, is kind of gone now, but then I walked into this pool tournament to like, sign up and I was like, oh no, what if I'm bad?

• 4:06Speaker 04

  And what if I'm bad? What if I make a fool of myself in front of all these like, straight guys that have gloves on?

• 4:09Speaker 05

  Not gloves.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Gloves.

• 4:11Speaker 05

  Not gloves. Not putting their own pool stick together. Are you putting your own pool stick together?

• 4:14Speaker 04

  No, I'm not, but people.

• 4:15Speaker 05

  Thank god.

• 4:15Speaker 04

  No, but there's, there's guys, they're coming in, putting their pool sticks together and like, they got the gloves on. One guy just had just the fingers.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  That's unfortunately pretty fucking sick. Unfortunately, I find that pretty fucking sick.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Well, I turned to Jesse and I was like, I feel like that's like an undiscovered like lesbian sex toy. Like, just have it excrete like some lube. That's like, so come on, you guys. Somebody get on it.

• 4:35Speaker 05

  Two finger, two fingers, two fingers gloved.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  Two fingers gloved.

• 4:37Speaker 05

  Just walking around with it. That's pretty chic.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  You see at the girl, she's at the club, she's got two fingers gloved, you know what's up.

• 4:42Speaker 05

  You know what's up. You can get those fingers if you need them.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:45Speaker 05

  She's, she's down. She's community finger.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  She's community finger. She comes with her own lube. It's good. It's good.

• 4:50Speaker 05

  That's so fucking funny, dude. I am bad at pool and I feel, there's this, um, pool bar that I love in Kansas City called Chartreuse Saloon. Shout out Chartreuse, love you guys. They, I will go in there sometimes just to fuck around with my friends. I'm bad at it. I know I'm bad at it. I'm not trying to be good at it. I'm not practicing. I just like it. Okay? Then these guys will come in with their little stick in a bag and start putting the stick together and start chalking their hands and I get fucking terrified.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  No, it sucks.

• 5:16Speaker 05

  Cause they're also old, they're like old timers.

• 5:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 05

  Like, these are like, old Kansas City guys that have been there forever.

• 5:21Speaker 04

  People take it seriously. And the Midwest is big for pool. I've been doing some research. It was, it was like, it's like, kind of where it started.

• 5:25Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:26Speaker 05

  Have you been to Kansas City?

• 5:27Speaker 04

  I actually have. Wait, uh, I flew in there because I did, oh my god, what was the name of that college? I did a college show.

• 5:32Speaker 05

  Was it Colgate?

• 5:33Speaker 04

  No. Hmm, hmm, it was really small. Oh, it's gonna bug me. I'll figure it out. I'll tell you later, bud.

• 5:38Speaker 05

  It wouldn't have been Avala, um.

• 5:40Speaker 04

  It was like, I want to say it might have been a historically women's college.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Oh my gosh, yeah. It was, uh, Jewel Williams.

• 5:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 5:47Speaker 05

  God damn it.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  Outside of Kansas City. It was like, it was like, maybe, and I drove like, an hour.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  You drove an hour? Oh, oh, oh. It was, um, um, Columbia College. It was in Columbia. God damn it. It's, I think it's where Lea Delaria used to, um, we looked up women's college, Columbia, Missouri. I think it's this.

• 6:04Speaker 04

  Could be.

• 6:07Speaker 05

  Stevens?

• 6:08Speaker 04

  Oh god, it's like, I can't even

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Oh, it has to be Stevens!

• 6:11Speaker 04

  It was like a school with like, no kids.

• 6:15Speaker 04

  And they all came to the show, which was cool, and I loved them for that.

• 6:18Speaker 05

  Oh god, I think it was Stevens.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  It was like, one of the first times I ever ran an hour was for these, and it was so crazy, because I was like, in the middle of Missouri, and I was like, and I had never been before, I'm like, an hour from Kansas City, I'm, it's like, a one-stop-town kind of place, and it was like, it was the Hampton Inn I was staying at, and then the Walmart next door, and then the college was somewhere's away. And so, I like, was like, I guess I'll just go to Walmart to get like, my food for dinner, because I like, didn't want whatever other thing was around, and so I went into this Walmart, and everybody was staring at me, and I was just like, I was feeling so like, oh, am I like, being clocked, like, what's happening, like, people, they know, whatever, and I was like, they probably have never seen a stranger, they haven't seen a stranger in this Walmart? In a long time, so they're all like, who is this guy, like, what's going on?

• 6:58Speaker 05

  It's that you don't live there, it's crazy.

• 6:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, totally, and then I was like, oh, okay, I'm safe, I'm just, um, I'm just walked into this town, and nobody knows who I am, yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  Truly, it's still like that over there, it's, and it's hard to tell, yeah, it's like, are they also transphobic? Probably.

• 7:11Speaker 04

  But like, do they know what a trans person likes? Absolutely not, absolutely not!

• 7:15Speaker 05

  They're like, look at that, young man, yeah, what is he doing here, we don't know him.

• 7:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, everybody here is blonde, we don't know.

• 7:20Speaker 05

  Oh my god, yeah, well, you should come with me sometime, you need to do a show there.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  I would love to, yeah, I, I definitely want to do, uh, I love going to the Midwest, it's like, some of my favorite places to play, because I feel like, like, the Midwest has a lot of folks that are like, they're really smart, and they're like, left-leaning generally in their politics, but they're also just like, grounded, normal-ass people, who aren't like, I feel like sometimes in New York or LA, you get to shows, and you're like, why is everybody overthinking everything, and like, everybody's overly intellectualizing, they're placing themselves in the material too much, they're not just here to like, have fun, I don't know, it's like, whenever I'm in the Midwest, I'm like, these are just normal fucking people who like, want to have a good time, and also aren't gonna like, say something weird.

• 7:52Speaker 05

  Well, it's, it's, uh, mostly, I feel like, about, my favorite leftists in the country are in the Midwest.

• 7:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:57Speaker 05

  I have always, I've, like, I've said for many years, that like, the most important things I learned about like, organizing, I learned in Southern Missouri, because then I moved to Chicago, and I was totally I was just shocked by the um, the kind of leftist discourse that I encountered that was so in feity and um, also like theoretical that it was like, it was really smart. It was a bunch of people who went to really good schools. And they're from really cool places and they're really, really, really smart. But I was like, oh, all the leftists that like brought me around and taught me about organizing, worked like real jobs and had like a class angle to everything they were talking about because they didn't have a choice. And I realized how important that is, at least to me in my view.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 05

  But that's what it is, is a lot of the people that are coming out to like your show or my show in a, like a midwestern city. They work real jobs and like actually still wonder how they're gonna pay their rent and it's not to say that is not happening for leftists and queer people on the coasts. But I feel like it gets to a way more intellectual place. Because it's been a lot of like sitting around and talking and like dissecting. Whereas there is more like humble like pragmatism to the Midwest and South like that is real.

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, and it's so, it's always so interesting, especially, I don't know, I've met more, I've met more people that will work, like went to Ivy Leagues, working in comedy than I think if I had been a doctor like. It is fucking insane.

• 9:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 04

  Um.

• 9:16Speaker 05

  It's their little rebellion.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  Oh my god, these folks, they are just coming out of, out of, out of every nook and cranny of the Ivy Leagues. But anyway, it's always so funny to me because it's like these, I don't know, it is a lot of like theory and just like this, I don't know. Really um, esoteric ideas about these things, but it feels like so far removed from, I don't know, real life or just real people that when you go actually like out to these places and talk to people and I always really enjoy talking to people after the shows like, again, like I really like seeing like trans guys that come out to my shows and like, just like asking what their life is like in these other places that like I, I just like, in my, I don't know, I could feel fearful of living in or whatever and it's just always really like, cool to be like, these are just like, cool, living their life. It just gives, I don't know, it gives me, I don't know, some reprieve from some of the.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  Headier nonsense that comes with like, living in a coastal place. That's, you know, very uppity about its own sense of self, I guess.

• 10:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, absolutely. And very like self, I mean, I think all the time of that, who was it? Jemima from Girls? That she, that she, that someone wrote to her on Instagram and was like, "What's your advice for unconfident young women?" And she was like, "I think you guys might be thinking about yourselves too much."

• 10:21Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 10:22Speaker 05

  I think about this all the time, that I'm like, the number of times I have to tell myself that, that I'm like, I'm like, "Oh, what, what, you know, what is XYZ thinking about me? Or what is the opinion of me doing this?" And it's like, you're thinking about yourself too much.

• 10:33Speaker 04

  Dude.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  Who cares? Get over it.

• 10:35Speaker 04

  That is like what I'm literally like, this week, for some reason, I've been so in my head about stuff and just like, I keep having this thought pattern where I'm like, literally think about anything but yourself. Think about anything but yourself right now. Like, think of anything else right now.

• 10:47Speaker 05

  Find one thing that's not you.

• 10:48Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  To think about right now.

• 10:49Speaker 04

  Oh, it's so god, it's so god awful. And then I'll just like, somehow it'll like creep back in. I'm like, ah, ah, ah, why are we doing that again? Why are we doing that again? It's horrible.

• 10:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  It is hard. I mean, I don't know how you feel about this, but like, just like working in this industry, in this career, like, especially as a stand-up, I don't know, like, because so much of my material is anecdotal, or it's about my life, like, there's like, an element to my work that requires some like, introspection and, and like, thinking about myself. But then it gets so dangerous when you start to think about like, the stuff you can't control, or just like, it starts to creep into like, career stuff. And I find myself finding, like, trying to strike a balance of being like, smart and planning for things, or being industrious in a certain way with like, career, but like, not overly worrying about crap like, I just like, can't control.

• 11:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 05

  100%. I feel like, I was just talking to a friend yesterday who's like, really, she's a entertainer, and she's got a lot going on, and she's really burnt out, and like, having to like, pare back like, immediately.

• 11:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Like, you know, when you get to like, a mental health, like, uh, uh, cliff? And it's like, "Oh, I gotta pare stuff back now. Like, I have to cancel things tomorrow." And we were talking about it, and I was just like, you know, like, Because part of what she was saying, that I feel like a lot of people that do this kind of work experience is like, "Oh, I don't feel like myself. I don't really know who I am right now." And it's like, right, well, part of the job, if you like are in comedy and like entertainment, is just like mining everything that happens to you all the time to see what's interesting and relatable, and what's different and unique and what's weird. And like, you'll go to the grocery store and experience the same thing that someone who isn't a comedian experiences. But you're the whole time being like, "Oh, that was weird. That's kind of funny. Like, what if, I wonder what that person's like point of view is and like, "Oh, why, when they said that to me, I wonder if they meant this, or like, who do they go home to?" Like,

• 12:24Speaker 05

  you start pulling threads on everything to try and make something interesting, or to try and like figure out the most interesting thing about whatever just happened to you. And so, yeah, you start living this like meta existence where you are a character in a story, and you really have to push back about against that.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 05

  And like, let things happen and then revisit them later.

• 12:43Speaker 04

  Totally. And I think like, social media has made it all the worse. Like, I don't know, just to say this, I feel like we all have this, like, sense of who our, our public self is, even if you're not a public person, even if you're just like, you know, you have an Instagram account. I feel like there's this like, this like, for the last, you know, decade and a half, there's just been this splintering of the actual self and the, and sort of the, you know, public self of who we put out in the world in this like, social media lens. And I think it's just made us all so much more aware of the way that we come across or what our opinion, it's just like to like, look at our lives as such, as such an outsider as well. It can be so dangerous. I, I don't remember whose quote this was, but I've seen it a couple of times. It said like, "Don't do the," I think it was like, Marcus Aurelius or something. "Don't quote me on that. Don't check it."

• 13:22Speaker 05

  Quote, quote, check, quote, check.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  But it was like, "Don't do yourself the disservice of looking at your life all at once." And I try to think about that a lot, because that feels like what that instinct is to like, yeah, meta-textually like discover. I don't know, just think about too much about like, who I am as a person versus who I am as a, I don't know, an entity, a brand, whatever those things are. And it's, but I think people are doing it on all levels of, of that spectrum of fame, from like, the most famous to like, people that are just on Instagram. I feel like it's like, really such a brain worm that, I don't know. I'm interested to see how the, um, that changes us as people in general.

• 13:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, I am also interested, uh, but with a, I'm so worried about it. I don't, the internet, I'm like, we really should have stopped at a certain point.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  Oh, man, yeah.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  And we keep going.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Oh, man, yeah.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  I'm like, stop, just stop, stop, stop.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  Hey, but the metaverse is shutting down.

• 14:10Speaker 05

  Hey.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Hey, that billion dollar flop is shutting down.

• 14:13Speaker 05

  Any questions about that? I love that.

• 14:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, anybody, anybody make a visit to the metaverse?

• 14:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was there this morning.

• 14:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, right, right, right.

• 14:19Speaker 05

  Paying my respects, I was laying flowers.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Well, you have a lot of friends there, don't you?

• 14:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:22Speaker 05

  In the metaverse? Oh, my god, yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 04

  You think you're a celebrity in real life? You should see them in the metaverse.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  You should see them in the metaverse. I, well, I program them to only say what I want. So they all, I mean, anytime I tell a joke, they don't even laugh. They just go, yes!

• 14:34Speaker 04

  Yes, they go, they she, they she, they she.

• 14:38Speaker 05

  Yes, king! Oh, that's so funny. What, what you were talking about, um, earlier, you said something that I wanted to talk about. You were, um, you said like, oh, yeah, I'm trying to like, I'm trying to get out and see people and pretend that like, society is not collapsing.

• 14:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 05

  How, what's your, what's your relationship with happiness right now? Are we happy most of the time? No? Yeah?

• 14:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think I'm a generally pretty happy person. I, I don't know, I, I'm definitely like a, a, I, I have realized in my adulthood that I'm more of a depressive than I thought I was. Like, I, I think depression's a bigger part of my life than I thought it was, but, um, but I'm also very happy, generally speaking. I think, I, I don't know, I, I find a lot of happiness in connecting with my community and being with people and being with friends and find a lot of happiness performing. Um, but I think like, I don't know, it's just heartbreaking now to not feel like, you know, things are coming crashing down. I'm sure people are loving to turn into a comedy podcast and hear about that, but it just like, is what it is.

• 15:33Speaker 05

  They're okay.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're okay.

• 15:35Speaker 05

  This is what they're hearing all the time, yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're, they're whipping up some oat lattes right now as they listen. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, I, I don't know. I, I think I'm generally pretty happy, but it comes in waves. I don't, I think it's like, uh, every day's a, a battle to try to be happy.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 04

  In a way, yeah.

• 15:50Speaker 05

  100%.

• 15:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, that makes total sense to me, and I feel the same. I feel like there's this mix of like, I also, I, I'm always wondering like, what?

• 16:02Speaker 05

  What am I gaining slash how am I helping by knowing the intimate details of every atrocity ongoing? Like, I feel like people will be like, don't, don't look away. And I'm like, right, and I'm not. I am totally tapped in. I know what's going on. I'm trying to talk about it. But I'm also like, do I need to see every photo of every horrific thing? Like, I'm trying to find the balance of like, yes, I absolutely believe that we need to know what's going on and be talking about it. And I'm trying my best to like, be a good person. I'm trying my best to be a good person all the time. I'm doing the best I can. And also, I don't know, some of my most miserable friends, God love them, are the most tapped in.

• 16:39Speaker 04

  Oh, of course.

• 16:40Speaker 05

  I think you could know thirty to forty percent less and still be a good person, a good citizen.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 05

  A good neighbor without making yourself so fucking sick and miserable every day. Do you know what I mean?

• 16:50Speaker 04

  No, totally. I mean, it's always the people that are most online that are the most sad. Uh, and the most like, yeah, just fucked up by it all. But I, I've been trying to like, just like, whenever I get into that space where I'm like freaking out about stuff. And obviously, it's like justified freakouts, you know, because of what's going on. But I, I've been recently trying to just like, be like, is there something I could do right now? Like, do I have some old clothes I could just like go donate? And that would maybe be a moniker of impact in a positive direction, even though there's a million things coming this way. Um, I really want to get involved with, I used to work with kids. I used to coach kids soccer, um, for my day job. And I liked that and I liked it a lot, but I wanna, I, I don't think I want kids, but I like working with them. And I, I wanna get like more involved with like, trans youth in the city or something like that.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  Like, I feel like that's like an actual way that you, I could get involved that would be like a positive, you know, eh, I don't know, fight against all the shit that's happening right now because it just feels like so overwhelming all the time to be like, everybody needs my donations? I don't even have money myself. Like, this is crazy. Like, it's just like, yeah, like, everybody needs money and everybody needs help all the time. It's like, where do I even start? So I think like, I'm just trying to be better about getting really involved in like my local communities and finding like, yeah, starting from the smallest place that I can actually like make some tangible impact.

• 18:02Speaker 05

  That's it. Yeah, I think. I sometimes, I've said something like this on Substack recently and people, it was met with varying degrees as are all things that I say.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  The internet, you're kidding.

• 18:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, no shit. People, some people really related to it. Some people thought it was the worst thing that's ever been said, but I, I have found in my own experience that like the, the people who tell me they're the most hopeless are often the most privileged and they're doing the least. And I'm not saying that I'm doing the most, but I'm saying like, the people that I know that do the best work, like my organizer friends that I'm like, you are a legitimate hero. I come nowhere close to doing the good work that you do in the world. And I am trying every day to get even an inch closer. Those people have the most hope of anyone I know.

• 18:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 05

  And they see the worst shit. They're making the least money. They are every day in like, like truly dire circumstances, trying to like save lives.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 05

  And they have the most hope. And that's just the thing that I've observed that I'm like, but it's because every single day, I think it's the thing you're talking about where it's like every single day they're doing stuff that makes the world immediately at least a little bit better for somebody.

• 19:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  And then my friends, I've got friends, you know, that have like, like very well-paying jobs and cushy lives and they're not, they're not like a marginalized person living, they don't have like a, a intersection of multiple marginalized identities, living in some dangerous place.

• 19:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 05

  And they're the first ones to be like, oh God, the world's a dumpster fire. We're fucked. And I'm like, you do nothing. Like you, this is a total privilege for you to sit here and say this.

• 19:26Speaker 04

  No, totally, totally.

• 19:27Speaker 05

  And I'm not saying you're wrong. It does look like a dumpster fire. Hey, we, we do seem to be pretty fucked.

• 19:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 05

  I'm just saying to like, sit there and like, spout that is not ever the behavior I see from the people that are doing the best work.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  No, totally.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  You know what I mean?

• 19:40Speaker 04

  It's kind of like that. I don't know if this is a real fact or if this is like an old wives tale, but um, again, nobody check anything.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  Check this, quote this.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  I have no facts today. Everybody, everybody stop. Um, but like that, that adage that like, you know, somebody who, if somebody's asking for money on the train or something like that, it's more likely that the person who like, doesn't have a lot to give will give them a dollar than like somebody who's like in a business suit is not going to give them any money. And it really is that idea of like, when you know what it feels like to be close to the bone, like you, you want to help more because you understand and empathize. Whereas I think people that have these cushy lives, like they just, they're like perfectly, I mean, they are systematically positioned in the middle to feel comfortable so that they are the buffer between the elite and the, the rest of the working class.

• 20:16Speaker 05

  It's the whole point.

• 20:17Speaker 04

  It's the whole point. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, you, you feel this guilt and this cushion because you're, you've been systematically set up to be here to feel this guilt, but not enough to like do something about it. Anyway, I could rant for days, but um. I like, I've been reading a lot of history books to like, ground myself in some like, you know, the things have been worse and people did more when it was harder and like that kind of stuff and that's been really helpful too. I read this book called, um, Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg. That's like, a history of trans people through space and time. I'm trans, I'm not a fetishy guy or something.

• 20:47Speaker 05

  No, he says don't listen to him.

• 20:50Speaker 04

  Caleb wanted to get a really fetishy guy on the podcast to talk about trans people.

• 20:54Speaker 05

  I said, Nico, you can come on, but you have to talk about your trans fetish.

• 20:57Speaker 04

  Listen, listen, and I, I've been begging to get an audience to listen about it, so thank you for, yes, to everybody, yes. But anyway, it's a, it's a really great account of like, Leslie Feinberg was like, wanting to like, look through history to find themselves in history, was essentially the conceit going in and, um, it was really cool to read, just like, oh, we've existed across, you know, civilizations and time periods and continents and it's just like, so cool to like, actually be like, yeah, all this stuff that's like, this is new and this is like, fake shit, it's like, no, that's the part that's fake and made up, like, and, you know, I don't know, for me, it's like, really helpful to just like, ground myself in this like, a tethered reality to other human beings throughout time and space, that like, is very helpful for that kind of stuff, yeah.

• 21:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, that makes so much sense.

• 21:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:37Speaker 05

  You and I have a, I, I feel like a pretty, somebody, you grew up in Savannah.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:43Speaker 05

  Um, and then now you're like, you know, a comedian who's out touring and living in New York and like, I feel like, we have had a lot of similar, uh, experiences, like the way you talk about things, I'm like, yeah, I feel that too.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  Like, what is your relationship to, to Georgia and to home, uh, at this point in your life?

• 22:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I feel like I've had an evolution with it because when I was a kid, it was like, I gotta get out of here.

• 22:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  They don't understand me, I gotta get out of here.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  I'm too different, they'll kill me.

• 22:10Speaker 04

  And it's a thing of like, when you're young and especially I think like, for, I don't know, I mean, I'm sure a lot of different types of people, but as a trans person, like, sorry, I'll bring it up again, now that I've brought it up once. Um, it's this thing of like, I don't know why I'm different, but there's something different about me and nobody here understands me and that, and I think that's an experience a lot of kids have in high school anyway. But anyway, so that was kind of my mindset and I was like, I gotta get out of here. And then I went to, um, I played soccer all through school, so I, I played in college and so I went to Wake Forest, which is where I played in, um, which is not that much different from Georgia, it's like, a very, a very wealthy school in North Carolina, so like, it was a lot of the more of the same, but, so I was still kind of feeling like this, like, I gotta get out of there. And then I was back home with my folks in Savannah during COVID, uh, and I like, had such a new appreciation for the city and just like, I got to meet some people that were like,

• 22:56Speaker 04

  Not my parents' friends, or not my friends' parents, and just like a new idea of like what the city was made up of and stuff. And it was just like a really eye-opening thing to do, like to experience at 21 and be like, oh, like I like lived in this bubble within this city that I felt very oppressed by. But there's so many other types of people that live here and there's obviously so much history to Savannah. And so I just had like a much broader appreciation for just like what the South represented and like all the erased people that get, you know, erased by like the northern elitism of like, we should just let them fuck themselves over and like, yeah, go legislate yourselves into the dust. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, there's a lot of people that live down there. Um, so I think I've had like a broader appreciation for it. And I like going back to the South and like, I like, I like going home and I like to, I used to feel like resentful of that, like sort of identity of being like, I'm from the South.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  But like, I've, I've come to really appreciate it because I think I want to reclaim that among this like sort of, I don't know, world where like so many of these like whack people from the, from the fringes are coming in to try to like, claim southern identity is one thing when I, I think it's much broader. So, I don't know, I feel like I really, I don't know, I, I really, I, I like, I like that that's a part of like, and it's also like living up here now, it's like everybody's from fucking Connecticut. It's like, at least I got something interesting.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  Exactly. Don't you feel like an undercover agent a little bit?

• 24:08Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 24:08Speaker 05

  I'm like, I have a superpower. I understand, that is how I felt after 2016, that my whole life, up until then mostly, I had felt like, oh God, I'm like fat, gay and from middle of nowhere, Missouri. Like this is, these are the least interesting things. I'm like, I want to.

• 24:20Speaker 04

  And honey, it gets worse.

• 24:21Speaker 05

  I'm like, baby, it gets worse. And then everyone after Trump got elected, every, all my friends on the coast started being like, we really got to understand the middle of the country. And I was like, I understand it over there. And I felt like for the first time, I was like, no, it's actually like, cool that I'm from there and I know about that place and you're right, you guys should have been paying attention.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 05

  And so I felt like, yeah, I, I had a total reclamation and started like, yeah, I started like loving home actually and started feeling like, wait, no, I, I'm. I guess I just had the realization that I was letting them win. That I was like, you don't actually get to kick like me and my friends out of here and like claim this as your own like weird Kristo fascist like, we live here. Yeah. And like, we're important to here. And if we did leave here, you guys would be fucked. Yeah. You can't do this without us. No, totally. I feel that too. The Kansas City that you love is not the same without all the trans people making it cool. Totally. And like, that is reality. Like, you can't, you just can't do any of this without us. You need us and we, like, the same way that like queer people living in cities need farmers that they don't agree with on stuff, y'all need us too. Yeah. Like, we all need each other. And that's being like obscured by these rich billionaire

• 25:25Speaker 05

  psychopaths that are like sending out like bat signal hate messages to us. Yeah. But we do all need each other.

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• 27:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, and it's, it's, I don't know, it's just like, it's given me such a more, I think, well-rounded, I don't know, view of people because just like you just are used to having grown up with all these people that you don't agree with at all, like having to, like, have gone to school with these kids forever, and I don't know, it's just interesting. It's also been, I mean, I will say on the, on the flip side, it has been a little tough at times to like, you know, I've definitely lost relationships because of people's political leanings and, you know, how that intersects with my identity and things like that, and it's like, it can be really frustrating, I think, to like, be like, I see this place as this beautiful opportunity and like, you know, I find that like a lot of the north is a lot less diverse than they, they're like, oh, we're like really great to black people up here. I'm like, you don't have any black people up here. What are you talking about? Like, you know, it's like, yeah, there's actually-

• 27:45Speaker 05

  Or they live, or you live in a separate part of town-

• 27:47Speaker 04

  Right, yeah-

• 27:47Speaker 05

  And y'all don't interact-

• 27:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's like, or, yeah, exactly-

• 27:50Speaker 05

  That was shocking to me-

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Yeah-

• 27:51Speaker 05

  When I, coming from Kansas City where, look, everybody was poor, but white folks and black folks were hanging out all the time-

• 27:57Speaker 04

  Right-

• 27:57Speaker 05

  And the Mexican folks, and like, everybody was together at the same barbecue restaurant. And then I moved to Chicago and the black folks and the white folks, by and large, separated intentionally by interstates-

• 28:07Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm-

• 28:07Speaker 05

  Not talking-

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm-

• 28:09Speaker 05

  Not hanging out, not being in the same spaces, and I was shocked. I was like, oh, this is like, supposed to be like liberal heaven-

• 28:14Speaker 04

  Right, right-

• 28:15Speaker 05

  Like, what is going on?

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Right, and it's like, yeah, and then, so, and it's always, anyway, so, all that to say, like, I just find it really, I can find it frustrating on the flip side of that argument of like, when, like, I can see this beautiful diverse place that could be so much more and like, you're just hanging on to your creature comforts and your, and your, you know, this middle zone where you get to feel comfortable all the time and I, I just, so it makes me frustrated at times that some people down there really double down on the comfort of just being like, I live on a river and I'm never gonna be politically engaged. And honestly, my day, I wouldn't either-

• 28:45Speaker 05

  Living on the river's part of it, that's always-

• 28:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would love to live on the river and not be politically engaged either, but, yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 05

  Something about living by a body of water makes a whole bunch of people go, I'm done. I'm not, I'm not, hey, it's five o'clock somewhere, right here-

• 28:56Speaker 04

  Always, yeah-

• 28:58Speaker 05

  That's so funny-

• 28:58Speaker 04

  Yeah-

• 28:59Speaker 05

  You said something earlier that I, uh- I'm coming back to since then and have been thinking a lot about lately, which is you were like, oh yeah, I think a lot of kids in high school just feel like this regardless.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 05

  If you're like, even if you weren't trans, that you're like growing up and feeling artistic even in Georgia, you'd be like, I gotta get the fuck out of here.

• 29:15Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 29:16Speaker 05

  And I've been thinking about that so much with this like driver's license situation in Kansas. About my buddy, I have a, my buddy's a trans guy, he lives in Missouri. He passes, most people in his, not most people in his life, a lot of people he interacts with at work, he's a mechanic, don't know. And he's not out to anybody at work. And then this fucking license thing happened in Kansas where they revoked everyone's driver's licenses. He's on the Missouri side, so he still has his license for now, but of course, we all have like these big fears that it's gonna happen there.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:42Speaker 05

  But he works in Kansas a lot, and so he was forced to come out to his HR supervisor, which is extremely unsafe.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 05

  She, we don't know, like, we didn't know how she was gonna react.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  And luckily she was really cool and she was like, you know, like, don't tell any of the other guys. Like, I got you, we'll take care of it, we'll figure it out when the time comes, which is so lucky.

• 30:01Speaker 04

  Don't tell them when they're under a car.

• 30:02Speaker 05

  What? Boom. Boom.

• 30:05Speaker 05

  And then they'll have little birds flying around their head. And then they'll transition, it'll be a nightmare.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, it's the whole, I mean, we're gonna have to get, what a health plan we're gonna have to get.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  This cannot be a trans mechanic center.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 30:15Speaker 05

  But yeah, like he goes and fixes these people's cars that like would, probably did vote against his rights. And if he gets his driver's license revoked, like, it's not even this like, I don't know, these debates turned into these like big like weird conversations that are so unrooted in pragmatism, it's like, no, this guy just needs to get to work.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  Well, that's the other thing, it's like, okay, so we take a bunch of people's driver's license away, okay, now nobody's getting anything at the coffee shop, these people can't get to work. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, I mean, it's just like, it's like, it is, it is, it's just not practical at all. It's just like, we're just getting a bunch of people who now have to like, try to figure out how to get the bus on time, and that's like not helpful, I don't know. It's just, it's exactly that, it's just like, it's like, this isn't even something that's gonna, even if you didn't want trans ideology out there, like, people not getting to work is not gonna help.

• 31:05Speaker 05

  It's, the, the, yeah, the thing that it makes me like so sad and pissed off about is I'm like, this is actually... It's painted as this like unrelatable thing that is nowhere near your community. And I'm like, no, it's the most relatable thing imaginable. You're a teenager who doesn't feel loved and wanted. You're barely making rent and you have to be able to get to work. Like, these are the most relatable things in the world.

• 31:28Speaker 04

  You have three to four situationships that are untenable.

• 31:30Speaker 05

  Hello, your polycule is going through a tumultuous time.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  And they are, and there's a lot of infighting. And that's a big part of the community is fighting yourselves. And how is that gonna help anybody? It won't, but we will.

• 31:43Speaker 05

  I think every farmer in Kansas has had a situation where their polycule got out of control. Okay?

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Yes, they also have multiple wives. It's okay.

• 31:52Speaker 05

  Someone wasn't doing their chores. Someone wasn't being communist enough at the book club. Like, we've all experienced these things. These are universal.

• 32:00Speaker 04

  I know. I just, I mean, I was just telling my friend Jesse when we were playing pool the other night. I just really hope that this year's Dyke March gets out without, gets off without a hitch. Oh, my God, I'm gonna knock that over.

• 32:08Speaker 05

  I was curious what would happen with the water, but I just wanted to see what would happen with it.

• 32:11Speaker 04

  I'm just too finicky of.

• 32:12Speaker 05

  Wait, what's happening with Dyke March?

• 32:14Speaker 04

  I don't know. Every year, it's like, they're like, we have just announced that we are doing the Dyke March again. And there is a fight happening between the organizers. It's like every year without fail, they're like, there's some sort of infighting going on. And it's like, what if the, what if the theme of this year's march was we're all gonna have fun?

• 32:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  What if we were all gonna have a good time?

• 32:29Speaker 05

  Well, I feel like, was it, was it, which march was it? It was some pride thing that they were like, we're doing it again this year, of course, and we are having the cops. Like, was that part of it?

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Like, there was like, I think like in the early, I mean, to be fair, this is all people being, trying to be respectful and empathetic, I think. And it, whatever, gets out of hand. But I think it began maybe with like, there was, yeah, maybe something with the cops. I think there was something to do with masking, like post-COVID. Like, there was like, everybody had to wear a mask, or there was like a masking section. I don't know. Anyway, it, it started off as those kinds of things, but then it always escalates to just like people like, I mean, it's like, so many people's exes are probably working on this thing. It's like, it's just gonna, it's a hotbed. It's a hotbed.

• 33:09Speaker 05

  Look, my only goal for this year is that the Dyke March goes off without a hitch.

• 33:12Speaker 04

  Listen, and I always have a great time, but I'm just like, and what were we fighting about? Everybody's out here in the sun, like, having a good time. People get their shirts off. This is great.

• 33:19Speaker 05

  Hello?

• 33:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:20Speaker 05

  That is so funny. Yeah, I mean.

• 33:23Speaker 04

  Like, maybe I'm naive, but to me, when I first went for the first time, I was like, the most powerful thing that's happening right now is that I'm looking around and seeing a bunch of people like me, like, with their shirts off, doing like incredible things and just like being out here kissing each other. I was like, this is healing so much in me, like, whether or not we are, I don't know, abiding by every possible, you know, moral upstanding thing we could be doing here today, I think there's a lot of good being done. Let's just have a good time.

• 33:43Speaker 05

  That is, yeah, we're splinter, we gotta stop splintering over stupid stuff. Like, there's all the, like, the language policing and the, like, like, who makes fun of who in the community. I'm like, do we want to be in community or not? Everyone needs to relax.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 05

  Everyone needs to get cool quick.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 05

  Because it's not helping. It's only making it worse. It's splintering us. And they're on the other side, by the way, they're completely unified on everything.

• 34:02Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 34:03Speaker 05

  They have a, they, on the, on the right wing side of things, they have somebody who comes out and says something that almost none of them agree with, and they go, "Yeah, that's crazy, but he's ours." Can we get someone out on the left?

• 34:13Speaker 04

  Like, being like, "Well, that's my uncle." Like, that's their attitude towards everything. I know.

• 34:16Speaker 05

  That's our senator.

• 34:17Speaker 04

  I know, yeah.

• 34:18Speaker 05

  That's our senior senator from Utah, sorry.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Even with them all kind of coming out against, uh, like, even that, it's like, not even working. Um, wait, I was gonna say something about, uh, oh, I was gonna say, despite, despite all we're saying, I will still be coming for gay guys. I'm not sorry about that.

• 34:32Speaker 05

  What are you coming for gay guys on?

• 34:34Speaker 04

  Their behavior.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, what are we doing?

• 34:35Speaker 04

  How they speak. How they speak to me.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  How they speak?

• 34:39Speaker 04

  Right in my head.

• 34:39Speaker 05

  How are they speaking to you? Directly above, talking over me?

• 34:42Speaker 04

  Talking to another gay guy. Um, no, I'm just fucking around. I, um, I've been doing a joke up top where I, when I ask if there's any gay guys in the house, and then they'll say, you know, they'll cheer, and I'm like, "Oh, I love when there's gay guys in the audience, because they have to listen for once, and I think that's nice."

• 34:57Speaker 05

  Carly Kane has this fucking, you and Carly, yeah, you know each other, because we've all hung out.

• 35:01Speaker 04

  Uh, I feel like I've met her once before, maybe, but I'm familiar, yeah.

• 35:05Speaker 05

  Um, she has this fucking hilarious joke where she was doing it all the time, opening for me on tour, which was disrespectful, where she's like, she's like, I'll butcher it, but she, maybe we'll, I'll have Carly send a video of her doing the joke, and we'll put it in right here. But she, Carly, basically the joke is she's like, "I love hanging out with my gay guy friends, because I don't have to say a word." I wake up the next morning, I have no anxiety, and I'm like, "Why, why don't I feel weird about last night's hang?" "Oh, I didn't speak once."

• 35:30Speaker 05

  And she's like, "My gay guy friends are the best, because they don't care about anyone else." And I, she would tell that joke every night on my show, and I'm like, "I'm your best gay guy friend."

• 35:38Speaker 05

  That is so fucking funny.

• 35:39Speaker 04

  Okay, I'm the aforementioned gay guy, sorry to, yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 05

  Number one gay guy in your life, I think.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  I'm a chatty, and I'm about to chat for another hour for you guys, so, not beating the chatty allegations.

• 35:47Speaker 05

  So fucking funny.

• 35:52Speaker 05

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• 37:20Speaker 05

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• 42:42Speaker 05

  That's so funny. What is the makeup of your audience? What's, who's mostly in there?

• 42:46Speaker 04

  I get a good amount of trans people. I get a lot of lesbians, a lot of bisexual women. Um, and then I'll get like some straight people and then I'll get like, like parents of trans kids sometimes too that are like really excited about, you know, that kind of stuff. There was a guy in the front row-

• 43:01Speaker 05

  That could make me cry for kind of no reason, by the way.

• 43:03Speaker 04

  Dude, I know, right? Oh my god. So I have two stories. So there was a guy in Philly, was front row of my show and I was like, and he was like very burly looking and I was just kind of like, okay, did you know what you were coming to? Cause I never know with like clubs and stuff like that. Cause like, I'm doing, like my audience is like, uh, I'm very grateful for everybody who comes to the show, but I'm not like so like sellout level or whatever. So I'll get some like random people that just show up and I'm always like, okay, well, I hope you like this. Um, but then he stood up at the end and he had a, uh, parents of trans kids or whatever, or protect cancer shirt on and I was like, and I was like, okay, this is awesome. Um, but I was at a, I did a benefit, uh, pride, I did Heartland Pride in Omaha last summer, which was really cool. It was a cool event. Um, and they did like a little meet and greet kind of thing after for the acts that were going on and this, uh, this little trans boy ran up with his two trans dads.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  And I was like, I've found the epicenter of my audience. Everything builds from here. Like-

• 43:51Speaker 05

  Hey brothers.

• 43:51Speaker 04

  I was like, this is the perfect family. Um, so anyway, so the two trans dads and the trans son. And I just like talked about being a short guy on stage and, uh, the, the, one of the dads was like, he kept being like, he's not that short. Why is he saying that? He's not that short. Not that short. And the dad was like, I didn't know how to tell him like, he has no understanding of like what short is. He has two trans dads. Like to him, like height is like not, it's meaningless. It's like, yeah, it's like, we're the tallest people you know and we're 5'3". Like, yeah, it's like, well, yeah, you don't know. So I get a lot of that, which is cute. Yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 05

  That's so fucking funny.

• 44:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, I guess mine's a lot of bisexual women. They're really in there.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  I mean, they're good ticket buyers and I love them.

• 44:32Speaker 05

  They buy tickets because they have good jobs.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 44:35Speaker 05

  Bisexual women, quiet as it's kept. They are the backbone of this nation.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  They are the only thing with, I mean, our GDP is, is all because of bisexual women.

• 44:43Speaker 05

  These women are saving our lives.

• 44:45Speaker 04

  They're saving our lives. They really are.

• 44:46Speaker 05

  And we need to be thankful to them.

• 44:47Speaker 04

  They really are. No, I, I have all love to the bisexual listeners. I'm a big fan of yours too.

• 44:52Speaker 05

  Big fan. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for buying tickets. That's so funny.

• 44:55Speaker 04

  No, it's so funny. Like, I don't know. There's some, um- I don't know, there's been, I feel like there's been this movement in comedy over the last several years of like this more bro-y, whatever. I mean, I'm, this is all things we know, but it's always so interesting to me when I think about just if you're looking at it from the most like business-minded, capitalistic lens you could of like, I wanna sell out and have like, like sell-out shows and stuff like that. Why would you appeal to cis straight men? Like, they don't buy tickets for themselves. They don't have a lot of friends. They don't go do group activities. Like, invest in audiences that are gonna invest in you.

• 45:25Speaker 05

  They're embarrassed of earnestness.

• 45:26Speaker 04

  Like, go, like, I am, I'm like, yeah, I like that girls come to my show because they bring eight friends.

• 45:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  That's eight more tickets that I wasn't gonna, you know what I mean? It's like, why would you invest in a bunch of guys that are gonna be single-ticket buyers and sit by themselves? Like, that's crazy.

• 45:38Speaker 05

  You're bad at business. You need to be nicer to girls. You're bad at business.

• 45:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, seriously.

• 45:41Speaker 05

  I'm, one of my favorite things, and I, I sometimes wonder what this says about me that I love this so much. I think it's just that I like to win people over, but one of my favorite things is I can, I'll go out in a, I'll go out on stage if I'm headlining, and I can see immediately the guys who are only there because their girlfriend made them come, and they are not thrilled to be there, and my favorite thing is to win them over. And I'll get them. I'm like, I can get you. You're gonna try to stonewall me, but I'm gonna get you.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:08Speaker 05

  And I love that.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  Can I, okay, I have, I have thoughts and questions on this. So, do you feel like, okay,

• 46:14Speaker 04

  because I have this thing too where I, I find, like, I get, I get so nervous about like the, like the straight guys, like ahead of time, and I feel like I want their validation and this, like, this, like, deep-seated thing in me. Do you feel like you ever fight that about that, or it's like, hey, fuck this, I don't care if these guys like this or not? Or do you feel like you're like, oh, I wanna win them over? Because I, because I know they don't like getting everybody else here likes, does, I don't know if I make any sense.

• 46:33Speaker 05

  Yes, it makes total sense. I've, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Thinking about, do I wanna win them over because they're the straight guys?

• 46:39Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 46:40Speaker 05

  That, uh, whose approval I wanted when I was 12. Like, is that what's going on here? Is this about my dad? You know, basically, like, what is, what is this? And I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, and I genuinely think that, I genuinely think that it's just that I wanna, I wanna get the hardest person in the room.

• 46:56Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 46:56Speaker 05

  Like, I want the person who wants to laugh at me the least is who I wanna win over. It happens to be those guys, but, I mean, it would mean just as much to me. It's just not as easy to spot.

• 47:07Speaker 04

  I know.

• 47:07Speaker 05

  It would mean just as much to me if it was like, there are plenty of like hardcore, like Tinder queer leftists that don't love me all the time. They think I'm annoying, they think I'm too, I go too far, they think I say things I shouldn't say. They are, they're a different kind of opposition to me than straight guys. Straight guys just think I'm like, they don't think of me at all, or they think I'm, um... I don't know, like, they just can't imagine that I'm someone they would think is funny.

• 47:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:30Speaker 05

  I would want to win either of them over. I want, in the room. Out in the world or on the internet, I don't, you can't play the same game.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  I know.

• 47:36Speaker 05

  Because it's people, it's manufactured outrage in order to get clicks and attention. They, there are some people that are not gonna like you just because it's the unpopular thing to do and it'll get interest. In the real world, in the room, it's different because funny is funny.

• 47:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 05

  And I don't know, so I really, I think that it's that. But also, like, sure, maybe, maybe part of it's that I just want these guys to like me.

• 47:54Speaker 04

  Because I have that same thing where I'm on stage and I'll be like scanning the room and then there's like one dude who's like towards the front who's like kinda, I'm just doesn't care and I'm like, okay. I want this guy, I want to get this guy, like, I want, I keep looking at him, I want him to laugh and I'm like, oh, this next one will be able to get you, and they're like, whatever, and it's like. There's so many people who have been having a great time, enjoying themselves, came to see me, wanting, like, I should give them my attention, not get, but it's like, I can't stop.

• 48:16Speaker 05

  This is the illness, yeah.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Because that's the illness, it's like, I got it, it's like, if everybody in this room doesn't think I'm funny, I'm a fucking failure, you know, it's like, what is that?

• 48:22Speaker 05

  Well, that's, this is the whole thing about what we do, it's so sick.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is.

• 48:26Speaker 05

  It's so sick, the whole reason we're up there is because we need, who, who needs a room full of people to show up and spend the night of their life laughing at you? Like, that's insane.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  It's like, I came up with these little thoughts I thought you'd like.

• 48:38Speaker 05

  What do you guys think, yeah? Isn't this true?

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Mostly about me, but.

• 48:42Speaker 05

  Sorry, this is mostly about me, but I.

• 48:44Speaker 04

  This is kind of my life story, I hope you guys were cool to spend forty dollars to hear that.

• 48:47Speaker 05

  It applies to you guys in some ways. Yeah, no, it's insane.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 05

  It's a completely insane endeavor and I've, yeah, I definitely want, but I enjoy, we actually had a whole joke on our last tour where we like did a shout, we did like a, like basically a moment of silence for the, the straight men that had to come with their girlfriends. And it was so much fun, they loved it, I mean, they were like, there's also something.

• 49:05Speaker 04

  Well, they love to be talked about.

• 49:06Speaker 05

  They love to be talked about.

• 49:07Speaker 04

  They love to be addressed, they love to be addressed in a gay space, I find.

• 49:09Speaker 05

  They love to be addressed in a gay space and it also gives them permission to, these guys will come in, well, they're so, I mean, look, I don't want to be too mean, but they're so insecure and scared and I get it, and it's, in some ways their fault because they perpetuate it and in other ways, it's just like what we do to men in this society.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:23Speaker 05

  That like, they have to come in with their arms crossed and, everyone needs to be visually signified that they're not, they're not gay, they're not happy to be here. And the second you give them permission, like, you say like, hey, I know your girlfriend brought you and you don't want to be here, they're like.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's suddenly a Cosmo in their hand, they're like, I'm relentless.

• 49:41Speaker 04

  Do that one again.

• 49:42Speaker 05

  You nailed that one, girl. All of a sudden, they feel so comfortable being like, okay, everyone knows I'm straight. I can relax.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  No, totally. It's so funny, though, because it's like, I'll find like, like if I'm in a, if I'm playing for a straight crowd and I'm gonna ask like, are there any trans people here? Like, maybe somebody will be willing to say it, but a lot of times, people are either just, if there is a trans person, they're probably not gonna like shout out, and that's totally fine. They don't need to do that in a room full of straight people. But then if you're in the opposite, you're around a bunch of gay people in the audience, and then like, any straight people here, they're like, let's go! Okay, well. It's like, it's like the reverse of this is not happening. Like, people are not as excited to announce themselves. Anyway. But no, I, I like, I like when there's straight people in the audience, because I, I do find it is like a good place to, it's a good place for them to be hearing about things that are otherwise being talked about so negatively. So it is nice that they like, you know, I, I like when they venture in and then like, yeah, I try not to overthink like playing to them, but.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's the, that's the line to walk is like, I don't want to play to you, but also I would like to expand your horizons a little bit. Like, I'd like to be, I'd like to imagine that you come to, your girlfriend drags you out to this show, you didn't want to come, but she didn't want to come alone, you kind of have to do it. Uh, I'd like to imagine that the next time she asks you to go see a gay comic, or a, a woman, or a trans person, or anyone that seems outside of your wheelhouse, that you might be a little more excited and go, oh, last time was actually pretty good.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:55Speaker 05

  I'd like to imagine that that's maybe some effect of all that.

• 50:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 05

  But, whatever. You think God's real?

• 51:01Speaker 04

  In some form.

• 51:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, what form?

• 51:04Speaker 04

  Oh, man, I think probably like some sort of, uh, non, non-embodied thing, like, like a light, or like, energy. Some sort of like goodness energy that is existing, that is not, I don't necessarily know that it's, like, all-knowing, or all-powerful. And the, like, I think it's powerful in the way that, like, human connection is powerful, and that energy is powerful, but like, I don't think it's like this, you know, Judeo-Christian tradition of like, there's a, a moral understanding, and that, I think that that is something we map on to God, but, um, I do believe there's something that is why we're here, connects us all, there's some sort of, some sort of life force.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  And I, I was raised Catholic, so like, I always have that kind of. In the back of my head, but I don't really feel, I don't really feel that like any sort of human idea of what God could be is like, I don't even think we could possibly conceive what it is. Like, I wonder if it's something that we can't even fully, in this form, like, see, you know? You know how there's all these things in front of us that like, other animals can see or some shit?

• 52:10Speaker 05

  In here, yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, right in front of us, yeah.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  Right here.

• 52:13Speaker 04

  The tension.

• 52:14Speaker 05

  Specifically right here, yeah. I think, yeah, I think, uh, I think, like, God is, like you're saying, like, an energy and a thing that everyone has felt. Everyone has felt God, in whatever that is, but I think the only thing humans could have ever done with that feeling is what we have done, which is mapped humanity onto it.

• 52:33Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 52:34Speaker 05

  And been like, well, first of all, it's a boy.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 05

  And, second of all, he's violent, you know what I mean?

• 52:38Speaker 04

  And, um, he snatched his.

• 52:39Speaker 05

  Hello, he's hot, he's violent, he's white. It's like, okay, yeah, humans, the humans in power were always going to map as much of themselves as they possibly could onto this energy. It doesn't mean the energy isn't real.

• 52:51Speaker 04

  And maybe he looks like the King of England or something, you know?

• 52:53Speaker 05

  I don't know, I think he's white and thin.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  Maybe he looks a little like me.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  And if you give your mean to him, he'll kill you. It's like, okay.

• 52:59Speaker 04

  And he doesn't want women to talk, and he wants me to have eight wives.

• 53:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't know, I think he wants me to fuck a lot and for you to be obedient. That's kind of what I've experienced with him.

• 53:07Speaker 04

  He told me, he told me this.

• 53:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm talking to him, and then people go, well, why isn't he talking to us? Nah, don't worry about it, he's very shy.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  He's really shy. He likes to talk through us.

• 53:17Speaker 05

  He has favorites, and, um, yeah. But, no, I think, yeah, I think it's, um, I think it's, I don't know, I go back and forth on whether or not I think it's, like, intentionally nefarious, like, the way, the way that we got here, I think certainly it has been used that way, but I'm like, I just think it's a misunderstanding of the energy and what's going on.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think there's a version of religion that's really positive, I think, like, I just don't trust a lot of humanity and the current power structures to, for that to, I mean, I just don't know that there's a world where, like, religion in its best form and capitalism can coexist.

• 53:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  I don't think, those things, I mean.

• 53:47Speaker 05

  I completely disagree.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Capitalism's the devil.

• 53:49Speaker 05

  I think, I completely disagree, I think that God is, um, a capitalist.

• 53:53Speaker 04

  Well, I mean.

• 53:54Speaker 05

  I think the energy, wouldn't that be funny? I'm like, the energy I'm talking about actually, uh, wants you to be a landlord.

• 53:58Speaker 04

  Um, the energy I'm talking about is the invisible hand, okay? That's moving the markets.

• 54:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's trickling down. Thank you.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  Regonomics, big at the true, at the so true, yeah.

• 54:07Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm a big Regonomics guy, love him.

• 54:09Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 54:10Speaker 05

  He was charming, isn't that a shame?

• 54:11Speaker 04

  If you give Caleb your money, he will trickle it down to you.

• 54:13Speaker 05

  I will trickle it down to you.

• 54:14Speaker 04

  Pretty easy.

• 54:15Speaker 05

  I'm doing my best.

• 54:16Speaker 04

  Easy.

• 54:17Speaker 05

  It's trickling down. Nicole and Michelle, trickles are coming.

• 54:18Speaker 04

  They're waiting, their paws are open.

• 54:20Speaker 05

  They work for free right now, but they're both on internships and so is Chance. All my staff is on internships currently, but once they prove themselves. Yes, yes.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Speaking of, I'm a little bit pissed that Chance isn't even here to see me or anything.

• 54:34Speaker 05

  He didn't want to, he actually, he called in sick this morning. Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 04

  He said, somebody's trying.

• 54:41Speaker 05

  Yes, he threw up.

• 54:42Speaker 04

  God, I said.

• 54:43Speaker 05

  He said, Nico, what? I said, Carney. He said, let me Google him. And he said, I'm not feeling well this morning. I said, what?

• 54:48Speaker 04

  He said, that's giving gross to me.

• 54:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's giving gross. How Chance talks.

• 54:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's giving gross.

• 54:53Speaker 05

  No, he's in Los Angeles on his other job. He went and got another job. I know, you can't buy loyalty. You can't buy loyalty these days.

• 55:02Speaker 04

  Let alone for a class credit.

• 55:03Speaker 05

  I mean, I give this guy a job, I've known him since we were teenagers, and he goes and gets another job.

• 55:08Speaker 04

  And Los Angeles is all devious cities he could be in.

• 55:10Speaker 05

  At all things comedy. You're gonna go work for Bill Burr, a guy you don't even know? Sick, disgusting, Chance.

• 55:14Speaker 04

  Some guy from Boston, Jesus Christ.

• 55:16Speaker 05

  And leave this in. Imagine working for some guy from Boston when you could be working with your buddy.

• 55:19Speaker 04

  I once saw Bill Burr at this Netflix is a Joke event where he was clearly paid to be there and he was just pacing and the bodyguard was like following him and I was like, oh my God, I wonder how much their money they're giving you to like just pace in the corner of this pool right now. He did not look happy to be there, but.

• 55:33Speaker 05

  God.

• 55:33Speaker 04

  I would, I would love to get paid to be miserable.

• 55:35Speaker 05

  That's one of those, that's, that's one of those things that he wasn't, his team wasn't able to strike from the contract.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  I know, right?

• 55:41Speaker 05

  They struck, they struck six things that he didn't want to do and they're like, they need you at the pool.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  You gotta walk back and forth by this pool.

• 55:47Speaker 04

  Gotta walk back and forth.

• 55:48Speaker 05

  This is a sticking point for them, Bill. It's really important to them.

• 55:51Speaker 04

  That all the Netflix executives have a good time and see you in person.

• 55:53Speaker 05

  They need to see you at the pool.

• 55:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 05

  Badly.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  God, it is like that. It's so fucking funny. That it's like, well, I'm gonna not have fun when I go do that and like, it doesn't matter.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're like, it's not about that. They just need to see that you exist as a person.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  Five minutes contractually. We'll start the timer as soon as you step in the door. And then, and then at four minutes and 59 seconds, you're breaking for the door. It's like, Bill.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  They got him.

• 56:16Speaker 05

  Bill.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Bill, you gotta talk to the developments of animation.

• 56:19Speaker 05

  Oh, my god. Bill, you need to talk to these execs.

• 56:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 56:23Speaker 04

  Mostly because they're bored. I know. Yeah.

• 56:25Speaker 05

  Well, and the the number of things that um in this career path that we've chosen, the number of things that revolve around somebody.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Hey, it chose me, but that's fine.

• 56:33Speaker 05

  It chose you. Well, I I had to choose it, just so you know. It the number of things that revolve around this really simple fact that there are a bunch of people that are deeply incurably terminally uncool. And they need to feel like that's not true.

• 56:48Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 56:48Speaker 05

  So much of this industry spins around that.

• 56:50Speaker 04

  I agree. I agree.

• 56:51Speaker 05

  That they have no talent, so they became uh somebody near the talent.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 56:55Speaker 05

  And we have to make them feel cool or else everyone's gonna die.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. Yeah. How do we get on to that? Anyway, um, do you believe in God? Is that like a big part of your? Do you feel that's a big part of your life?

• 57:04Speaker 05

  Hmm, not a big part of my life. I do. I go back and forth. I've talked about a lot on the show. It actually probably, depending on how many years I do this show, I imagine it'll be pretty interesting to watch all the times I've talked about God and see how it evolves. But because I feel like it changes all the time. Um, I believe in, I think there's a power in the universe that generally pushes us all towards good. I think people are fundamentally good.

• 57:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:25Speaker 05

  And uh, I think that, yeah, I think that we're mostly good. I think we want to be good. I think we know when we're doing bad and we feel bad about it. How that comes out is different for different people, but I think we are predisposed to be good to each other. And I think that having that belief means that something must be going on that's bigger than individual like actors.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 05

  And, yeah, I think that I I struggled for a long time with putting God to it. And it's so funny. My friend Tara was just making fun of me recently because she was like, I'm doing a prayer zine. And I was like, I don't pray. And she was like, what do you do?

• 57:56Speaker 04

  Prayer scene.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  A a prayer zine.

• 57:58Speaker 04

  Zine.

• 57:59Speaker 05

  Like a zine about prayer. She's like, I'm asking a bunch of people about um prayer and what they think about prayer and what they pray for, and I'm gonna do a zine about it. And I was like, that's cool, but I don't pray. And she and we had this like really kind of intense back and forth where I was like, yeah, I mean, I I. I am a part of the universe. I think about the universe. I try to contribute to the universe. I try to put good into the universe. I think the universe gives me good back. But I specifically wouldn't call that prayer on purpose because it has such religious,

• 58:27Speaker 05

  like rewarding behavior kind of energy and I don't believe that.

• 58:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:32Speaker 05

  And she was just making fun of me because she was like, for all intents and purposes, you are a spiritual person, but you fight it so much was kind of the energy. And I'm like, yeah, I guess so. But I, yeah, I think, I think God is certainly not a person, certainly not raining down like blessings on people.

• 58:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:48Speaker 05

  That doesn't make any sense. That makes, that would account for, that would not, there's no way to me that we can say that God rewards people for being good when there's so many good people suffering. That just makes no sense to me.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  And the most vile people are at the top of the pyramid.

• 59:03Speaker 05

  The most vile people. And the prosperity gospel, I mean, yeah, the idea that you get good things because you're a good person, or even that you just, I struggle when people, when something is going well for me and like even fans of mine will be like, oh my God, Caleb deserves this. I'm like, no one, there's no such thing.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:17Speaker 05

  There's no such thing as that.

• 59:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 05

  I am very, very lucky, but there's no, to say that I deserve to make money in such a frivolous way is inherently to say that people who are working really, really, really hard and barely making ends meet didn't deserve better.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Right.

• 59:32Speaker 05

  You can't have one without the other.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  Right.

• 59:34Speaker 05

  And that's fucked up.

• 59:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. And then you get into the whole, I don't know, at least I will get into this whole guilt of like, and does a comedian deserve to have anything like as compared to like, you know, doctors and nurses and all these people who like really are actually helping people in other, I mean, not, whatever. There's ways that we are helpful too, but I get in that space too. But do you feel that God, like God is something that like comes up in your, like, do you feel that that's like a constant, like an anxiety or something you're thinking about like all the time? Like it's like, uh, do you feel like any like religious from like as a child, like a child, like any religious oppression kind of stuff? Like, does that feel like it's still part of you?

• 1:00:10Speaker 05

  Not in day to day. Like I think like when I am moving through the world day to day, when I'm like, should I do this or should I do this? Like when I come to like a moral decision, it really doesn't even get to God for me that I'm like, this is just, there's almost always a clearly right thing to do. Even if there's like personal consequences. And I generally try my best to just be like, Despite what it means for me, this is the right thing to do. And I try my best to just do that because I would want someone to do that if they were in my position. So it doesn't usually get to God. But when I get to God, like when I get anxiety from, uh, growing up and being around the church, it's always about death and what happens afterwards.

• 1:00:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 05

  Really not about what I'm doing here. I'm pretty clear on what I'm doing here. It's death and what happens afterwards that really makes me ill.

• 1:00:51Speaker 04

  That makes you anxious.

• 1:00:52Speaker 05

  Makes me completely sick.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:00:53Speaker 05

  Dude, the, the way, I've been talking about this so much lately, but the way I can't watch this fucking dinosaur documentary.

• 1:01:00Speaker 05

  This, there's this dinosaur show on Netflix, narrated beautifully by Morgan Freeman, of course. The, it's, they start ticking back the time clock on, on Earth. And it's like, Earth, 300 million years ago, I could throw up.

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:13Speaker 05

  The idea that Earth is 300 million years old, the idea that, the, truly the fact that someday humanity writ large is not guaranteed, is not going to exist.

• 1:01:24Speaker 05

  Like I, what the fuck are you talking about?

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  I hate that.

• 1:01:28Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  And also, yeah, I mean, I, I got really, I was of course stoned, but I got really, really high the other night and was thinking about like, the way that we sit here and speculate about like what it was like on Earth 300 million years ago when like, you know, I don't know, tadpoles ran the fucking world or whatever.

• 1:01:44Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:45Speaker 05

  People are going to be.

• 1:01:46Speaker 04

  They were running around with their little legs.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  Hello, and now they've got legs. What the fuck did that come from? What are you talking about?

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  Well, that's the thing that always gets me when they're like, evolution, they're like, and then at one point, then they grew legs and they walked on the ground. And it's like, well, like overnight, like one guy, like what?

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Not overnight, over a million years.

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  Like, right, but there's like, what, what do you mean, like?

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  How?

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  Like, like, like, like smaller legs that became bigger legs that could walk or like, oh, one day it's wet legs, like what?

• 1:02:07Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't.

• 1:02:08Speaker 04

  We don't know.

• 1:02:08Speaker 05

  Was it born with legs? How did it develop the legs? It's, I guess it rained for a million years at one point.

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like, and I'm fully believe in evolution, so don't come for me, but I just am like, I, I wanna see it. And I wanna see it.

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  I wanna see it. Show me.

• 1:02:21Speaker 04

  I wanna see it. And a lot of it's guessing. I wanna see it get legs.

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  A lot of it's guessing. Like, they'll be like, they'll be like, this dinosaur was six stories tall. And I'm like, you don't know that. You were not here. Sorry. They're like, we have the bones.

• 1:02:30Speaker 04

  We didn't have stories back then. What are you talking about?

• 1:02:32Speaker 05

  Baby, I'm not, look, I'm not a denier. I believe in evolution, but I would like to see it.

• 1:02:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:37Speaker 05

  I wish I was there.

• 1:02:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, I wanna know when they went from, from sea to land. That, that part, that jump is just pretty, pretty seismic.

• 1:02:44Speaker 05

  And I wanna know how we got here. And I'm really, really worried about that. And I think, I think, yeah, someday we're not even gonna exist at all and all of this will, it's just so, you can't, you literally can't think about it day to day because when I think. There are times that I'm about to respond to an email for some stupid thing I don't give a fuck about. Then someone needs to hear from me, sorry, Michelle, someone needs to hear from me about that I if I just for a second think like humanity won't exist someday. It unravels me for a week. I'm like, I can't, what do you mean? What do you mean?

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  I'm responding to this email.

• 1:03:14Speaker 05

  Haribo really needs to hear back about, shut the fuck up. We're not going to exist. I just, it's really tough.

• 1:03:20Speaker 04

  You know what will though is a Haribo gummy. Those things are indestructible. That thing will be, it'll be that and the cockroaches.

• 1:03:24Speaker 05

  It'll be them.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  And the remnants of this podcast.

• 1:03:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, the SoTrudio.

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  The SoTrudio.

• 1:03:28Speaker 05

  SoTrudio will live forever.

• 1:03:29Speaker 04

  Well, obviously, this is all, um, you know, it's not, it's, you know, not radioactive, any of that. So I'm not sure what's the word I'm even looking for. Cut this out.

• 1:03:36Speaker 05

  Cut it. Keep it. Quote, fact check, keep.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  Okay, keep it, fine. Listen, people should know I'm a human being too.

• 1:03:41Speaker 05

  You're a human being? I say that all the time. Yeah, that stuff trips me out.

• 1:03:45Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:45Speaker 05

  That's when I get to God.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:47Speaker 05

  Mostly.

• 1:03:47Speaker 04

  Cause I don't really like, so my, my girlfriend and I have talked about this a lot because she was raised egnot, like with no religion in the house. Her parents were both raised Catholic, but kind of like didn't care for that and didn't want to raise her that way. And then I was raised Catholic because my parents were afraid and, um,

• 1:04:02Speaker 04

  I feel like there are things about it that like, of course are negative. There's like definitely like, oh, I deal with a lot of guilt and shame and all those things that Catholic people do, but I think I have like this like, kind of, I don't know. I just believe everything's gonna be fine. And if this ends and nothing else, whatever, like, I don't know. I guess I just don't, I, it just like, doesn't bother me that much. Um, but my girlfriend, like she, because she wasn't raised with any religion, I think she just doesn't have like a roadmap or just like a, this thing in the back of her head that's like, something is there and it will be okay. Cause like she wasn't given that as like a child for framework for how to think about these things. But she is a lot more anxious about like death and afterlife and these types of things. Whereas I'm just kind of like, whatever, I don't know.

• 1:04:42Speaker 05

  Yeah. I guess it depends on the day.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Speaker 05

  So, you know, but sometimes I'm like, I don't ever want the party to end. And other times I'm like, this has not been a party.

• 1:04:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  We can, we can go whenever we need to.

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  No, totally, totally. I mean, sometimes I'll have this thought of like, I, God, am I stuck in this perspective for the whole time?

• 1:04:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  I gotta have this outlook on life for the entirety of it. I like, I really wish I could snap and be somebody else sometimes.

• 1:05:06Speaker 05

  This has been my biggest source of depression throughout the years. I've really, it's, it, the reason that loving myself was such a cure to my depression is that I really had to fall in love with the life I got. And I'm like, this is the perspective I get. I will always be from where I'm from. I can change my mind. I can learn new things. I can have new experiences. But I will always fundamentally be the son of the people I'm the son of, from the place I'm from. That I, that is just who I am.

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 05

  And the thing that depressed me the most in my early twenties, when I was like, super depressed, was I was just like, God, I'll never get to be all these other people. I'll never get to understand the world the way they do. And that really fucking, it still stresses me out.

• 1:05:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:41Speaker 05

  I'll like, meet someone and I'm like, God, you have such a cool, or even like, I'm unable to understand the way that you view the world.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:48Speaker 05

  Even, even sometimes when I meet someone that I'm like, I fundamentally disagree with the way you view the world, but I would be fascinated to live as you for a little bit. I, I'm just so like, kind of sad that I can't be ever, like, I wanna be, uh, I want a chance to be everyone and I just get to be me.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  And I think the thing I'm also like, responding to myself, to get back to what we were talking about earlier, is like this, this constant, uh, self narrative or whatever this is that I'm doing, that I'm like, thinking about and obsessing about. And it's like, oh, you know, if I was in another, I would be doing the same fucking thing. I'd be doing the like, you little human thing of like, am I okay? And does everybody like me? And it's like, it'd be the same if I was anybody. It's like, that, that part's not going anywhere. So like, I don't even, I'd be running from the same thing over and over again.

• 1:06:29Speaker 05

  Yeah. And the real truth that again, I can't spend too much like day to day time with, but it's just that there is really, there, like, sorry, sue me, I'm a hippie or whatever, but there is no me. There is no you. There is no like, there really is just like, we're like, I don't know. I'm just like, there's just one big energy and we're all playing out that energy in different ways.

• 1:06:46Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:06:46Speaker 05

  But like, it's senseless to even worry about the self that way. And thinking about the self too much is so destructive to being like, a, a productive and loving part of this whole project.

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  When you get obsessed with the self.

• 1:06:59Speaker 05

  So I don't know, I go back and forth.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  I know. It's tough, though. I'm so fascinated by it, though, and I'm just fascinated by like, all of our relationships to the idea of the self and to bring it back up, what I was saying earlier, like, with like, social media and stuff like that. I'm so fascinated by people, the way that they like, put themselves out there in, in all kinds of ways and just like, what that means for how they see themselves and, I don't know, I just find it such a fascinating relationship that we all have. Cause to your point, it's like, it doesn't exist. We're all just sort of, making up this idea of the self myth and like, what we are constructing of ourselves and like, every day make being like, this is real, this is a thing, but it's like, it totally isn't. It's just like, we're all-

• 1:07:32Speaker 05

  Just a way to pass time.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, really, truly.

• 1:07:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, the creation of self is just a way to pass time while we're here. It's like, it's nice to be like, my family, my house, my job, my life, my, it's like, we're just, we're truly just killing time. And it's the most fun way to do it. I love it. I think it's the, it's the best, it's probably some sort of like evolutionary thing that like, this is, our, our brains decided this is the best way to spend this time.

• 1:07:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Speaker 05

  Is to just be like, me and my things, and how, and how I did it here. And I'm like, okay, rock on. So then I need, I need a new pair of Uggs, really badly.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 05

  I need to be a consumer.

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  It's the same, uh, part of us that was like, I'm here, so don't let the lion eat me. And now it's like, I'm here, I should get some Uggs and a coffee.

• 1:08:11Speaker 05

  I'm a guy who gets Uggs now.

• 1:08:13Speaker 04

  I'm a guy who gets Uggs.

• 1:08:13Speaker 05

  That's me for the next couple of years. You know, they're comfy.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  I like the, uh, the trim on those. That's really nice.

• 1:08:18Speaker 05

  You know, they're really comfy. I put that trim on there myself.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I knew.

• 1:08:20Speaker 05

  I went down to the factory. I said, can I put trim on these?

• 1:08:22Speaker 04

  They said, we only have kids working here, but sure, get in there.

• 1:08:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, and they, and they, that was true. That was true.

• 1:08:27Speaker 04

  He said, hey, get out of there.

• 1:08:27Speaker 05

  I said, hey, go take a break. Take a smoke break.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  Here's a candy cigarette, get out there.

• 1:08:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I gave him a real cigarette. They're working for God's sakes.

• 1:08:34Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, they deserve it more than we.

• 1:08:35Speaker 05

  I know you're seven, but you're working. Go smoke this real cigarette.

• 1:08:39Speaker 04

  Those little nimble fingers.

• 1:08:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I didn't, actually, I didn't give him a real cigarette. I gave him tobacco and papers. Give a man a fish.

• 1:08:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. Give a child some, some Lucy's and then, and now you're leaving with cigarettes.

• 1:08:53Speaker 05

  Exactly, correct. That's so fucking funny. Nico, what's so true to you?

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  So what's so true to me is we all need to be reading more books.

• 1:09:02Speaker 05

  Whoa. What kind of books are you reading?

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  Right now, I'm reading a book called Valencia. That's a novel about a woman, a lesbian, living in the nineties in San Francisco. It's total lesbian romp. It's very fun. My girlfriend read it and gave it to me and I really enjoy it. Um, but I just, uh, I've been reading a lot more recently. I grew up reading, I liked, you know, I read a lot as a kid. Um, but I find that I'm really trying to- Take my attention span back and I think that like phones are just have fucked us up so maybe irreverently but like definitely in a direction and so I'm trying to take back some of that like mental energy and like I find that reading is one of the few things I can do that makes me actually sit somewhere and be like I can't I literally can't do anything else but hold this book and read these words.

• 1:09:44Speaker 04

  I find it very grounding. I think it actually like lowers my cortisol levels and like gets me more calm. And I also think too like, I don't know, I just read so much stuff on the internet or the way people post and I know like there's a vernacular to the internet, but I'm like, we are losing language so badly. People are speaking in this like new age internet speak that I just don't find very exciting, interesting, attractive, boundary pushing. Really, I find it's a lot of like sort of memetic speech that's just like repeating other people's things, which is like what humans do. But anyway, I like to read and I like to read things from different time periods and just like look at the words that they would have used and I don't know, it feels like it's connecting to this like sort of human language that's, I don't know. Anyway, so for all those reasons, I think more people should be reading books.

• 1:10:27Speaker 05

  I think so too. It really is obvious. Like I, I have been thinking a lot the last couple of years about how like even in the downfall of like the conservative movement and how bad it's gotten that I'm like conservatives used to be even though hateful and I disagree with their worldview, smart. Like they used to be like, they used to like have like theoretical frameworks and like they used to like write like they would write really beautifully about their hatred at least. And now that's completely devolved. Like our dumb people used to be like the least educated people used to at least like speak beautifully and like be able to uh like articulate thoughts a little more like easily, I guess. And now, I don't know, our dumb people just sound so dumb and our smart people even sound kind of dumb, myself included.

• 1:11:11Speaker 05

  I catch myself saying things. I'm like, for all intents and purposes, I should kind of be one of our smart people. I've like gone to school, I've read books. I'm like, people are listening to me talk and I find myself saying things and I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I don't mean like ideas, I mean the way I say them, I'm like, it's giving fascism. I'm like, why are you talking like that?

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  I know. It's like you say enough around enough gay people for a long time, you're like, we all gotta go back to school.

• 1:11:33Speaker 05

  Now.

• 1:11:33Speaker 04

  We gotta go back to school today.

• 1:11:35Speaker 05

  Break up the gay guy friend groups. Break up specifically gay guy friend groups, but gay people in general, break it up.

• 1:11:40Speaker 04

  It's giving, it's giving, it's giving go back to school.

• 1:11:41Speaker 05

  It's giving go back to school.

• 1:11:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, no, I totally, yeah, no, it's, it's, it's pretty wild. And it's like, to your point, it's like, yeah, like conservatives now, they're like, you know, eating Tucker Carlson out of a trough. And it's like, you used to read a memoir about Andrew Jackson, you dumb fucks. Like, at least, at least get back in there and read a 400-page book about the destruction of the universe. Yeah.

• 1:11:59Speaker 05

  Yeah. It used to be like, well, whereas the founders intended for marital relations to occur between a man and a woman, now it's, it's like, so disgusting. It's like, no boys in the locker room for the girls. It's like, okay, we have lost, we have lost our touch on this, bare minimum. It doesn't make any fucking sense.

• 1:12:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:17Speaker 05

  Doesn't make any sense at all.

• 1:12:18Speaker 04

  But I just, I'm like, like, reaching for more activities in general that I can put my phone away and like, not feel like I'm doing screen time or all that kind of stuff. Cause I just think that that's, uh, rotting my brain, even though I'm trying actively not to like.

• 1:12:29Speaker 05

  It's so rotting our brains. It really is the phones. There's no way around it.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  There's no way.

• 1:12:33Speaker 05

  We've gotten so used to the conveniences, the lies I tell myself, where I'm, I, I just, I've gotta stop. I've gotta, I have to get back to the dumb phone.

• 1:12:39Speaker 04

  I know. Do you have a, do you have like a, like a dumb phone, like app, or is it like a full other phone?

• 1:12:46Speaker 05

  Here's the deal. I've recently learned that the reason I can't, okay, so at one point I had, I kept my smartphone and I got a dumb phone. Separate dumb phone, different number. I was using the dumb phone. I've said a lot on here. I was treated like a leper in a pariah. I was border, I was almost stoned in the streets by my loved ones. Everyone was trying to kill me.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:13:05Speaker 05

  They were outside my house with pitchforks and Molotov cocktails. Okay, that, the dumb phone was not accepted by my community. I was cast out.

• 1:13:10Speaker 04

  More green messages.

• 1:13:11Speaker 05

  I was cast out. They hated it. They, they were like, can I text you this picture? I'm like, you're gonna have to email it to me. Like, it was really, really tough for everyone involved.

• 1:13:17Speaker 04

  Email they have on their phones.

• 1:13:19Speaker 05

  Of course. You have it on your phone, just email it to me. I'll check it later on the computer.

• 1:13:21Speaker 04

  Like, I don't know, um, like, saber it to me or whatever the fuck you guys still do. I'm off the grid.

• 1:13:25Speaker 05

  And that's not me.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:27Speaker 05

  They don't like that. So now I'm like, okay, I wanna get a dumb phone again, and I wanna just switch my SIM card back and forth. Like, when there's days.

• 1:13:32Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:13:32Speaker 05

  Cause like, when I'm traveling, there are things I need. Like, I do need to be able to order an Uber sometimes. I do, like, that is the reality of my life. But there are plenty of days where I can just be on the dumb phone. And if I could just put the SIM card with the same phone number in the dumb phone, everyone else can deal with the green text messages, they can call me, I'll be fine. I think I can get my community to embrace me while I have dumb phone.

• 1:13:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Speaker 05

  But I have a fucking eSIM in my current iPhone. So I have to go, I have to make time to go to the phone store and go, I want an iPhone with a SIM card, and I want the SIM card to be able to, and then I want you to sell me a dumb phone, and I want to be able to move the SIM card back and forth, and I don't want to hear anything about it. But right now I have an eSIM, it's a whole thing.

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  I know, I have an eSIM too.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  And then, by the way, you go into these fucking phone stores, and you ask them for help. I went into a phone store recently, I was murderous. I said, can I please do this? They said, oh, we can't do that in the store, you have to do it online. Then why the fuck do we have a store?

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, why is there a brick and mortar if I can't get everything damn done here?

• 1:14:25Speaker 05

  This shit, this has-

• 1:14:26Speaker 04

  In New York City of all places. Nothing makes me angrier, nothing makes me angrier than when I can't get something done in person in New York. It's like, why do I live here?

• 1:14:33Speaker 05

  Why do I live in New York? I have to call someone, why the fuck are you here? What do you do?

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  I walked by a pizza store the other day. Pizza place in my neighborhood the other day.

• 1:14:41Speaker 05

  It was Venture Capital.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  Went, probably. Wednesday at 8:50, they're shutting down shop already.

• 1:14:47Speaker 05

  They can't be.

• 1:14:49Speaker 04

  I looked around, I was like, am I in, am I in Vermont?

• 1:14:53Speaker 05

  I'm in Toledo.

• 1:14:54Speaker 04

  Like, what the fuck? This is New York City.

• 1:14:56Speaker 05

  Nobody, Nico, can I say something? Nobody wants to work anymore.

• 1:15:00Speaker 04

  I mean, I'll say it, it might have been a clear run business, I'll say that.

• 1:15:03Speaker 05

  Hello, hello.

• 1:15:05Speaker 04

  I'll say that.

• 1:15:05Speaker 05

  What, do you have Sober Bingo to get to? Keep the pizza shop open.

• 1:15:10Speaker 04

  Well, you gotta get the polycule on the tandem bike to get over to Sober Bingo, give me a break.

• 1:15:14Speaker 05

  Stop it.

• 1:15:15Speaker 04

  Give me a break, make me another slice. I couldn't believe it.

• 1:15:17Speaker 05

  You doing mocktails at pottery? Open the pizza shop.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  It's terrible. I'm also trying to get on a dumb phone vibe though, that's my goal as well.

• 1:15:24Speaker 05

  Do it together. If enough of us powerful in the community kind of came together and did dumb phone, we might be able to make a real change.

• 1:15:31Speaker 04

  I think so. I think so. Because I'm trying to get like a little flip phone or something. I think we should have stopped with the BlackBerry, that's my hot take on it.

• 1:15:37Speaker 05

  Nico. Nico, I've been saying this.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  I think that's the perfect, I think it's the bell curve, because it's like,

• 1:15:41Speaker 05

  Nico, that was it.

• 1:15:42Speaker 04

  It was the best version.

• 1:15:44Speaker 05

  That was it. We did it with the BlackBerry. Why do we keep going?

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:15:47Speaker 05

  I want to go back in time and tell everyone, you don't know how good you have it. Stop now.

• 1:15:50Speaker 04

  That's the most you're gonna want.

• 1:15:52Speaker 05

  Turn back.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  You got email, you got internet, you got maps if we need it.

• 1:15:55Speaker 05

  You got the little roly ball?

• 1:15:56Speaker 04

  Little roly ball. Not a screen that made you want to look at it all day.

• 1:15:58Speaker 05

  No. You felt like a cool business person?

• 1:16:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:01Speaker 05

  I remember when I got a BlackBerry, I got a BlackBerry when I was like, I don't know, like 13, 14 or something, and I felt like I was a publicist.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  Go for Caleb.

• 1:16:07Speaker 05

  I was like, I was like, go, yeah, go for Caleb. It's Caleb here. You've got Caleb. Oh, no.

• 1:16:12Speaker 04

  Oh, you need Caleb? Just a second. Hey, it's Caleb.

• 1:16:13Speaker 05

  Hey, it's Caleb. 10 million, or I don't get out of bed. Goodbye. That was my, me with my BlackBerry.

• 1:16:18Speaker 04

  Like, you didn't hang it up at all.

• 1:16:19Speaker 05

  It was awesome. I just slammed it down.

• 1:16:21Speaker 04

  You could slam it down, it wouldn't do anything, because it was indestructible.

• 1:16:23Speaker 05

  Didn't matter, because it was made out of titanium, I think.

• 1:16:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:26Speaker 05

  God. You want to play a game?

• 1:16:27Speaker 04

  Let's do it.

• 1:16:29Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:16:33Speaker 05

  Nico, I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can if what I just said was true or false. Brother, you get 10 or more correct, we're gonna give you 50 US dollars.

• 1:16:40Speaker 04

  Let's go.

• 1:16:40Speaker 05

  You ready?

• 1:16:41Speaker 04

  This is the highest paying podcast in the world.

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  It actually is. Um, Denver is one mile above sea level.

• 1:16:47Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:16:48Speaker 05

  True. Hot Wheels came out in 1968.

• 1:16:50Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:16:50Speaker 05

  True. Dell Computers is older than Apple Computers.

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:16:54Speaker 05

  False. Otters hold hands when they sleep.

• 1:16:56Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:16:56Speaker 05

  True. Savannah, Georgia's nickname is the hostess city of the South.

• 1:16:59Speaker 04

  Sure is true.

• 1:17:00Speaker 05

  True. Napoleon Bonaparte was born in Paris.

• 1:17:02Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:17:03Speaker 05

  False. Corsica. The currency of Japan is the yen.

• 1:17:05Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:06Speaker 05

  True. There are three theatrical, there were three theatrically released Jimmy Neutron movies.

• 1:17:11Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:11Speaker 05

  False, just one. There is zero gravity on the moon.

• 1:17:14Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:15Speaker 05

  False. Wake Forest University's newspaper is old, gold, and black.

• 1:17:18Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:18Speaker 05

  True. Penguins live at the North Pole.

• 1:17:21Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:17:21Speaker 05

  False. Only the South Pole. Light travels faster than sound.

• 1:17:24Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:24Speaker 05

  True. The Berlin Wall was torn down in 1989.

• 1:17:27Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:17:28Speaker 05

  True. Australia is the smallest continent.

• 1:17:31Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:17:32Speaker 05

  True. The first FIFA World Cup took place in 1908.

• 1:17:35Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:17:35Speaker 05

  False. 1930. How'd he do?

• 1:17:37Speaker 04

  Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. I appreciate the tailored questions. Thank you.

• 1:17:42Speaker 05

  Dude, you were locked in.

• 1:17:43Speaker 04

  I was ready.

• 1:17:44Speaker 05

  I was chance, even though he didn't show up today, he did still think of you.

• 1:17:46Speaker 04

  All right. Well, you know, he got some surface level questions about my hometown.

• 1:17:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, whatever. Yeah, you're taking it back. Like, actually, I don't care anymore.

• 1:17:52Speaker 04

  Obviously, it's the hostess city. Yeah, ask me the zip code next time, Jesus Christ.

• 1:17:57Speaker 05

  You were so excited when you thought it was Michelle. You found out it was Chan. You're like, whatever. It was a fucking, this is stupid.

• 1:18:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:02Speaker 05

  Uh, Nico, thanks so much for being on, brother.

• 1:18:04Speaker 04

  Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

• 1:18:05Speaker 05

  Tell people where they can find you, please.

• 1:18:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can find me. I'm on Instagram at Nico Carney. I'm also on Substack, uh, which is where I prefer. Uh, so check me out there. Do you know when this is coming out?

• 1:18:13Speaker 05

  I don't. I bet we know. But say whatever you need to say.

• 1:18:17Speaker 04

  Anyway, I'm, uh, I'm on tour, so check me out on tour. Tickets at nico carney.com. And I have a movie coming out in June called She's the He. Check that out. Really funny, trans, coming-of-age high school movie. So check that out.

• 1:18:27Speaker 05

  Hell, yeah. We did it.

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