Gaten Matarazzo Loves Pizza

Welcome! This week’s guest is the talented Gaten Matarazzo! Gaten and Caleb talk growing up in the public eye, weird encounters in bathrooms, the proper ways to grieve, Star Wars, and much more! Watch PIZZA MOVIE starring Gaten and Caleb on Hulu April 3rd! Join our Substack for ad free full episodes, early access to merch, our community chat, and more! https://calebsaysthings.substack.com/ Follow Gaten! @gatenmatarazzo Follow the show! @sooootruepod Follow Caleb! @calebsaysthings Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud Head to https://turbotax.com to find a store location near you and get matched with a TurboTax expert — with real-time updates in the iOS app. Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Head to https://RULA.com to find a therapist the easy way. Get $29 denim when you sign up as a NEW VIP at https://Fabletics.com/sotrue Head to https://squarespace.com/sotrue for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use OFFER CODE: SoTrue to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So True with Caleb Hearon is edited and engineered by Nicole Lyons. Our social media manager is Virginia Muller. All episodes are filmed in The So Trudio at Legitimate Business World Headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. A Wave series. wavesportsandentertainment.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?

• 0:03Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 0:09Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  Taylor Hansen? Nice.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Try one.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.

• 0:34Speaker 04

  I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual.

• 0:43Speaker 05

  No, because their money is green.

• 0:46Speaker 05

  Still stream Pizza Movie.

• 0:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please, please.

• 0:48Speaker 05

  If you're a devout Catholic, still stream Pizza Movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you.

• 0:52Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 0:58Speaker 05

  Today's episode, he's presented by Intuit Turbo Tech. Now this is tech, this is... Gaten, how's it going?

• 1:05Speaker 04

  It's doing very well, Caleb. How are you?

• 1:06Speaker 05

  Dude, I'm so glad you're here.

• 1:07Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 1:08Speaker 05

  This is a delight to me.

• 1:09Speaker 04

  This is a delight to me as well.

• 1:10Speaker 05

  I, uh, what, how did this come about? I, something happened at South by, did it not?

• 1:17Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 1:17Speaker 05

  Oh, it was Billy.

• 1:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:19Speaker 05

  It was Billy. We were sitting, we were sitting in the hotel and Billy goes, Caleb, you have to have Gaten on your podcast. I went, I said, Billy, we'll sort this.

• 1:28Speaker 04

  I wanted to be clear. First, like, he brought it up. The way he brought it up, it seemed like it was such a, I was such an awkward way of bringing it up because it seemed very much like I was like...

• 1:40Speaker 05

  Will you say something?

• 1:42Speaker 05

  Can you please stand up for me? Stand up for me.

• 1:44Speaker 04

  I swear I didn't, but it seemed like, the way he said, he was like, oh, Caleb, you should have, uh, you should have Gaten on the podcast.

• 1:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing where you're like, it's kind of like when you were a kid and you wanted to ask to like sleep over at a friend's house and you'd be like, my mom's not gonna go for it unless you ask.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:59Speaker 05

  What if Gaten stayed over tonight, do you guys think?

• 2:03Speaker 04

  I was so embarrassed. I was like, you blew up my spot for no reason. I didn't even say anything.

• 2:07Speaker 05

  Not at all. No, I'm thrilled to have you here.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Me too. I'm glad to be here.

• 2:09Speaker 05

  I'm so glad. We met making Pizza Movie.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Yes, indeed.

• 2:12Speaker 05

  For Hulu.

• 2:12Speaker 04

  For Hulu, indeed. In that weird little hot warehouse on your first day.

• 2:15Speaker 05

  Weird little hot warehouse. I showed up. I had such a funny experience meeting you for that because I filmed my HBO special the night before, went out, like, celebrated with everyone.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  You're a trooper for doing that.

• 2:26Speaker 05

  Filming a special is like a fucking crazy undertaking. I had also thrown, not thrown my back out, but like, I had gone for a really long bike ride the day before filming the special.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:38Speaker 05

  Cause I wanted to like move and feel like get some stress out and I hurt my back really fucking bad.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Where was it? Where would you?

• 2:44Speaker 05

  It was in Chicago.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  Oh, cool.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  I filmed in Chicago at like a DIY music venue that we like turned into a venue. Katie Birmingham, who designed the set, designed this like

• 2:52Speaker 04

  Indeed.

• 2:52Speaker 05

  black box DIY venue to make it look so cute. But then I filmed the special with a really fucking hurt back. And then the next morning at like 7:00 AM, I had to fly to Syracuse and get off the plane and come straight to you.

• 3:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:06Speaker 05

  And start filming this fucking movie. And so I was in such a, I mean, I wasn't, I was trying not to show up, but I was in such a bad mood.

• 3:14Speaker 05

  Cause I got there, they hadn't told me, this comes out after the movie comes out?

• 3:18Speaker 04

  Uh, the movie comes out tomorrow.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Okay, so I won't spoil, I won't spoil anything because people haven't seen.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  That's very nice.

• 3:22Speaker 05

  Crazy. Comes out tomorrow from this episode.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  From this episode.

• 3:25Speaker 05

  Okay, not, okay. Um, but I got there and had to get into this crazy getup that I wasn't aware I was gonna be wearing.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  I felt so bad. When I found out you didn't, when I found out you didn't know, I, my heart sank into my stomach. I was like, I just felt terrible. Cause I knew you were coming back from the special. Everyone was making a whole deal of it. Like, everyone was talking about how excited we were about you coming by, especially under the circumstances. And my first question to Nick and Brian was, what's the, what's Caleb's first scene? And then they told me, I was like, he's gonna be so pissed.

• 3:55Speaker 05

  And I was not pissed. I was just like, I was tired and confused.

• 3:59Speaker 04

  So bad.

• 4:00Speaker 05

  And when you guys see the movie, you'll, you'll understand what I had to do. But day one, they were like, yeah, it's really, it's a really intense makeup, uh, that we need to do. And then we gotta get you in this crazy hot costume in this warehouse in the summer with no AC. And I was like, I'm usually very like, uh, on set, I'm usually very like, trying to play music and like keep the energy up. And when they started putting the costume on me, I was like, all right, let's get this quick.

• 4:24Speaker 05

  So Nick and Brian was like, let's get this shot. Let's get the image that we need and.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Wasn't there like, wasn't there an established timeframe in which you had to be in and out of the costume? Because it was so hot. Were they like, we need to get all of this done.

• 4:36Speaker 05

  They were very kind to do that. They were very kind to do that. Yeah, they were. They were being very, very sweet because that was the only thing I had to do that day. Thank God. And they were very sweet to be like, hey, it's really hot. We should do this quick.

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 05

  Which was nice.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  Which is nice.

• 4:47Speaker 05

  It was so fun making that movie.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  It was so much fun making that movie.

• 4:50Speaker 05

  Do you love it?

• 4:50Speaker 04

  I had a blast. Oh, it was great. I loved. The first time I saw it was at South by when we were all seeing it together, which is really, really exciting. And I was stoked for it. I think for a while, Nick and Brian know this. I feel comfy saying this is that I was terrified of it.

• 5:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  For like during the filming process and then during the edit, after hearing how things were just developing and it's their feature debut. And so they would update me very, very consistently on what the ins and outs were looking like when it came to just getting the trailer figured out. And even working out like what the title was gonna be and why it ended up being named what it is. And that was a weird thing to be in the loop of.

• 5:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:28Speaker 04

  Which I hadn't been used to. So that was a little bit more high stress and I felt really good once we saw it.

• 5:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  I feel like it was, it felt like chaos right up until everything worked out because they were, they were still editing things like two days before. It was gonna be in the theater at the festival.

• 5:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 04

  They were still working out little, I think, like probably audio things more than anything, but so that it was pretty stressful hearing about it. But I was stoked with the way it came out.

• 5:54Speaker 05

  It's really, I think it's so fucking dumb and funny.

• 5:57Speaker 04

  Really dumb and funny.

• 5:58Speaker 05

  It's so fun.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  I think it was a lot of fun to make.

• 6:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 6:02Speaker 04

  I remember I said, cause it's such a, there's so many swings involved in the movie specifically that it's. One thing that was really fun to come to terms with over the course of making it was that. If it's going to be as successful as like this movie, if this type of movie is going to work, it's always going to be for a very specific type of person who enjoys these types of movies. And that's a success story as a whole. I think like it became a thing where we knew if we were going to try to go for as broad of a reach of like, let's see if we can get as many people to enjoy this as we can, it probably will not be a very good movie.

• 6:38Speaker 05

  Right.

• 6:39Speaker 04

  We have to just kind of be very assured in this, in the type of movie that we're making. And I think that it's better off for it.

• 6:47Speaker 05

  I think this was a really interesting choice for you. And I wanted to ask you about, because you and I have not gotten to talk about this actually. But like, you're coming off of, obviously, this little-known indie show called Stranger Things that most people haven't seen or heard of. But you're in this interesting position where now you're like making, it's a, to me, it's a really interesting choice for you as an actor to come off of something like Stranger Things and go do a movie like this. What, why did you do this movie? Like, what was the reasoning?

• 7:14Speaker 04

  I remember, it was a lot of right place, right time. And I'd finished filming the last season of the show in December of 2024. And this movie shot in June of 2025 is when we started filming and we shot, was that like through the whole summer pretty much?

• 7:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 04

  I'm trying to remember when we wrapped, but we shot in the summer of 2025. And I remembered that the wind, the, the early months of 2025 being the whole thing that everybody around me was talking about was to, to relax as much as possible and to just like, let it sit and reflect on the year that it took to make the show and hear about the edit and stuff and just enjoy some time off. And I just, I hated it. I hated the time off.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  I'm not kidding, it was, I was.

• 8:01Speaker 05

  I did it and I fucking hated it.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  I hated not doing anything. And there was a conversation that came where I was, I was begging like, please, please, please let me. My managers and my parents and my family, my friends. I was, I remember saying, I'm like, I just want to jump back into something because I just felt so antsy. And I didn't know what to do with spare time.

• 8:24Speaker 05

  Well, you've said your biggest fear is solitude.

• 8:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:26Speaker 05

  This is like a thing about you.

• 8:27Speaker 04

  This is actually a thing. I just, I don't enjoy it.

• 8:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  And this is the first time. My girlfriend was filming her show, so she was in Vancouver. And I was in the city in my apartment without a job actively happening.

• 8:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Didn't know what to do.

• 8:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  I was, I mean, it's probably a valuable lesson. I'm like, I would like to learn how to, you know, go about a day to day life without necessarily having a deadline or having anything to kind of dive into work wise. That's probably a healthy thing to try to figure out. But I did not, I did not feel good doing it. And so I remember I was just begging. I was like, please, could I just jump into something? Please, whatever comes through, let me jump into it. And they were like, no, take your time. Please wait. And so I just let it simmer until Pizza Movie came through. And I was still taping and auditioning for things. And they were like, okay, do something if it feels like you have to do it. And that's kind of weirdly what this felt like because it was something that came up and I, I've always said, no, I'm like, I have to be okay with.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  If I read something and I'm like, okay, I will never be able to do something like this again if I pass on this. And if I'm okay with that, great. But if I have to like be aware, because there are some things that come through. I'm like, I saw this last week.

• 9:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 04

  And that's fine. Like something like this or something that I think is adjacent to an experience like this will come through again. So I can hold off.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  It's like a type of thing that's going to continue to come up. Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. And this one was, I had to say, okay, I will, I know I will never do anything like this ever again if I pass on this. And for some reason, I just wasn't really okay with that.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 04

  I don't know why. I was, I just saw it and I was like, yeah, I really just, I was like, so let's do the tape. And then I met Nick and Brian over the phone after taping.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  You taped for it?

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I taped for Montgomery.

• 10:15Speaker 05

  Yes, I do know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  I taped for Montgomery. I think they had a very different idea of what Jack was going to be, which made sense. They had a really good, I think, idea of what Jack was originally supposed to be. And I think they wanted, the one thing that came through by the time they were finishing up the casting process was Sean and Gaten look identical to each other. The whole thing is that it's like a dynamic duo comedy buddy comedy. And there's usually like a contrast and like a crazy like look difference that like kind of sets them apart. And Sean and I are in for the same things constantly. We look, we just, yeah, two short curly haired Italian boys. And it's like the funniest thing for us to play polar opposites, but that's kind of what they loved about it. So we were both in for Montgomery. And he had been attached as Montgomery for a long time. And they were just like exploring the world of it.

• 11:01Speaker 04

  And then I was like, can I just try Jack? And they're like, fine. And then I went in for the Cam read and yeah, that so on and so forth. And then it kind of just fell into place. But it was just, it just felt like summer camp instantly. And that's kind of why I became obsessed with it.

• 11:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  It just felt, yeah. The head exploding sequence when I read it, oh shit, spoiled.

• 11:19Speaker 05

  That's in the trailer. That's fine. It's in the trailer. Don't worry about that. It's in the trailer.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  We're fine. We're good. We're good. Heads explode.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  Just watch the fucking movie.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  The heads exploding in the trailer. So you're fine. Uh, that's weirdly what sold me because on, I can't go into it yet. Damn it.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Just know that there were things Gaten was thinking about the heads exploding.

• 11:43Speaker 04

  There were things, yeah. I just was obsessed with the idea of spending the summer doing something as insane as that.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:50Speaker 04

  And it just, I knew it was just going to be a blast. And I just wanted to do something really, really fun. And low pressure in the sense of, of just doing something for the sake of making something fun and having fun doing it. And yeah, I think it was a good weird middle ground of this is going to be very challenging, but also scratching the itch that I had at the time.

• 12:11Speaker 05

  How old are you right now?

• 12:12Speaker 04

  I'm 23.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  You're 23. And when did you start Stranger Things?

• 12:15Speaker 04

  I was 12 when I booked the show.

• 12:17Speaker 05

  Christ. Okay. So that's fucking insane.

• 12:23Speaker 05

  Okay. I can deal with that. Hold on, I can deal with that. I mean, that's such an interesting like position to be in. Like Chance and I were talking before the episode, actually, that I feel like the only, and I could be wrong, maybe in the entire history of the show, someone will correct me in the comments, but I feel like the only other person we've had on the show that has experienced that kind of thing was Kiran and Shipka.

• 12:43Speaker 04

  Oh, for sure. I know Kiran. Kiran's great.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  Isn't she the best?

• 12:46Speaker 04

  Awesome.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  She is so fun.

• 12:48Speaker 04

  She's so fun.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  I love that girl.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, she's great.

• 12:50Speaker 05

  I miss her. We got to do a movie together a couple of years ago and I, yeah, she's coming.

• 12:53Speaker 04

  I think Sweethearts is awesome.

• 12:54Speaker 05

  Sweethearts?

• 12:55Speaker 04

  It's great.

• 12:55Speaker 05

  Oh, it's fun.

• 12:56Speaker 04

  I saw it at Savannah when they showed it for, I think it was like the SCAD Film Festival. I was there. We, me and Caleb drove down, Caleb McLaughlin drove down from Atlanta because Caleb's sister was, was, was there at the time. And so we all met up and saw it there and it was great.

• 13:12Speaker 05

  It is so fun.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  It's so fun.

• 13:14Speaker 05

  It really, Sweethearts asked the question, can this very visibly 30-year-old man play a high school student?

• 13:23Speaker 05

  And we answered it with my character and the answer was not really.

• 13:26Speaker 04

  Not really. That's so funny.

• 13:29Speaker 05

  And the answer based on.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  Though, we need to start accepting that as a universal rule.

• 13:33Speaker 05

  Sometimes teenagers are 30.

• 13:35Speaker 04

  Sometimes, sometimes. I mean, for years, teenagers have been 30 in movies.

• 13:39Speaker 05

  Sometimes 30-year-olds need money and enjoyed reading a script. I actually turned that, when they asked me to come in for that, I said no, because I was like, let's all just get real for a second.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  I'm not playing an 18-year-old in any universe. There's not enough prosthetics, there's not enough. And then, thank God, Jordan got ahold of my team and was like, why didn't he come in for this?

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 13:59Speaker 05

  Because normally when you pass, they're just like, cool. But thank God, Jordan pressed on it and was like, we really do want to see you for this. And I really, really love that movie, but Kiran is the fucking best.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, Kiran's really cool.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  I love her so much. But you've had this weird experience where you were on this huge show when you were like 12 years old, 13 years old. And now you're out of that, that show has ended. What do you want? Like, what's the big goal?

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  Come on. I don't mean in work, by the way, I mean in your life. I mean, what do you want for your life?

• 14:25Speaker 04

  Oh, man, that's a, that's a very fun question. I think what's interesting about the process of making Stranger Things was that it accelerated a lot of, or at least it brought forth questions that people usually have as they're entering their twenties of like, what would you think your career is going to be? Or what would you like your day-to-day to look like? What are, what's like a five-year plan? And those questions had kind of been answered at 13.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  Where we knew what the five to 10 year plan was going to be. I'm gonna burp into the mic, that's why I'm not talking quickly.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  No, I'm gonna.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  I had weird, I had those little, those little Starbucks egg bites.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  That'll do it.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  But the, uh, not the Starbucks ones, though, like, not the, the pepper ones.

• 15:11Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 15:11Speaker 04

  But they were like the generic frozen ones.

• 15:13Speaker 05

  Yes, wow.

• 15:14Speaker 04

  Very good.

• 15:14Speaker 05

  It's really interesting to hear that you're on that.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  They're so yummy.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  I find it hard to believe that you're like microwaving your own egg bites, but that's a beautiful testament. It's, you may as well have just told me that you were out like tilling the land this morning.

• 15:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, my ox and I were out working the land this morning, so I'm a little out of sorts.

• 15:32Speaker 04

  Tummy's a little rumbling.

• 15:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Which is fine. I, it's, it's a weird situation to jump into, uh, my twenties now with a lot, there's, what's really wonderful about it is that I, I grew on the show. And I got to do what I love for so long. And I'm very lucky in the sense that as I did it for a decade, I've come out of it with a love for it still, with a real deep love for what I do. Cause I know a lot of people who start at 12 or 13, enjoy it at that point, and then they reach adulthood and they're like, this is just not what I want to do with my life. And that's such an understandable, normal process to go through.

• 16:15Speaker 04

  There's so many things that you invest so much of your time with as a teenager, even as a young, as a younger kid. And it's just like weirdly, it's just something you grow out of and something you just, you realize you want to go down a different path. And sometimes that can be really stressful for younger people, especially in careers, because it's such a public endeavor. And usually people who take a step back or find a career shift, or just choose not to engage as much with it. There's like a whole public spectacle of like, where did they end up? Like, what happened to, like, the, the rise and fall story, which I think is, is unfair. And kinda silly, but most people who do take a step back, like if you talk to them personally, they're like, yeah, isn't that hilarious? Like when they're really just going off and pursuing

• 17:00Speaker 04

  so many other great things with their lives that aren't involved in this.

• 17:02Speaker 05

  Well, because we have this like societal worship of fame, which is not a really a status or a process to envy at all. Because we have this worship for fame and everyone imagines that they would like to be famous, even though they probably wouldn't like the the outcomes of that process. Because we have that cultural imagination about it and because we assume that fame is the goal, we measure so many artists against that metric that they're not measuring themselves against.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 05

  They go, oh, so and so fell off. And it's like, or so and so is like building a life and a family right now. And they actually just don't want to be seen by you all the time.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  But it is, it's a really interesting thing that even when you're actively not taking a break and you're still working and you're doing things that are just not 100% like identically aligned with the building of more and more and more attention and fame. If you're making choices that are not just about that, it's funny that culturally, we as a culture are kind of unable to process that because so many people are not famous and imagine that they would like to be.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 17:59Speaker 05

  And imagine that they would be good at it and sustain it forever.

• 18:02Speaker 04

  It's the people who do, like who who become famous through the career that they choose to do so. It's not a type of situation or even careers that are involved when people become become famous through them. It's not known for its longevity. Even like the people who are the most famous people in the world eventually gets you get, it gets to a point where it just, it's not sustainable.

• 18:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  And if you spend so much of your time trying to sustain it, you will be so miserable.

• 18:27Speaker 05

  If that's your goal, you're not gonna ever win.

• 18:29Speaker 04

  You're not, you're not going to win. And that's weird. It's like a weird, I recognize that. I don't have a desire. That's not at all why I enjoy this, this show. And having been on it for as long as I have. The most incredible thing to come out of it is that it has facilitated my ability to continue working. Where I choose to.

• 18:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  And that's rare and really, really cool. And that's why I'm excited to jump into stuff that is just kind of by me for me. That makes me feel very, very good and makes me feel like I'm growing and learning more about myself. And that's why I'm excited to jump into it. And I, there's even, but there is a weird little pull from like voices in your head of you have to make things that are projectable. Or you have to make things that are going to, to maintain this level of, of visibility post Stranger Things. And I really don't, I'm just, I don't understand why I would really want to do that. I don't have any real desire to pursue things for the purpose of that. Cause it's not like something I rather enjoy.

• 19:28Speaker 05

  Have you at any point during all of this, um, had a fear that, that you would, um, that people would forget about you? Or that you, that fame would fall off or that you need to maintain? Did you ever feel that and just came over, got over it? Or did you not ever feel it at all?

• 19:44Speaker 04

  I, yeah, I felt it. And I don't know why I felt that. Cause I think it was a, I think it's a weird, there's a correlation that you create with those two things, I guess, being mutually exclusive. Or it, the only, the way that for things to feel the same and the way for them to feel satisfying and, and be seen as, as you doing your job. To the best, I mean, to, to the greatest extent that you can is in relation to how many people see it or, or, or how visible it is.

• 20:19Speaker 04

  And it really, the day to day, well, doesn't necessarily really change for me either way. If I get to make things that I really, really like that nobody sees, and I think that's like the best case scenario for me personally. I think for like other people, it's like, I, it would be nice for people to see what is that I do. But really for me, the, it doesn't change a thing and that's cool to get used to. But there is, I think especially when you do it as a kid, when you're kind of instructed on what to value. It kind of is instilled over time. So there is a process of breaking that down and kind of coming to terms with the things that I was told to value. Aren't necessarily what I truthfully do. And that's been fun to unpack and discover.

• 20:59Speaker 04

  And it's just getting rid of the idea that, uh, if I don't engage with the attempts to be as visible as I can.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Like visibility above all other things.

• 21:13Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 21:14Speaker 05

  Not being the goal.

• 21:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, if that's, if that's not the goal in the slightest, then I think I'll be probably the happiest that I could be in, in doing this. And I think that would be, yeah, that'd be lovely. But there is a weird little like self-conscious like, oh no, but other people I know and like are gonna, are, are being seen more, why not me? And so there's like, even something you don't want or something you don't like, when you see other people like, kind of going down that road of that, working out in that department, it's still a little bit like, uh, there's like a little bit of like a sting there. And I don't know why.

• 21:41Speaker 05

  Because it's the cultural, it's the societal anxiety that I think, I don't think those are your values based on what I know about you and on what you're saying. But the, there is a, it's similar to like internalized homophobia or misogyny or any of these other things where like, it does, it might not be your personal values, but there's a kind of like cultural, um, pressure that almost can seep into you through osmosis because you're swimming in it. Like we're swimming in a society that values that and tells us that that's our value. And so it gets really hard to be like, I, all the time will have a thought that I'm like, I'm like, oh, I'm annoyed that that person got this thing. And then I go, you don't want that.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  And then I go, wait, that's not your values, you know?

• 22:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:24Speaker 05

  But it's that math of being like, wait, that's not even me saying that, but the voice is still in there. And it's like, yeah, other voices are able to make noise in my head. It, the work, the, I think the work of figuring out like who we are and what we want is, is placing like which voice is your own and which voice is in there from someone else.

• 22:39Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 22:40Speaker 05

  But I feel like watching you, I've, I've watched you now, like I watched you on set, I experienced working with you on set. You always knew your lines, you were always on time, you're super polite and like nice to everybody. You're like a consummate professional.

• 22:52Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 22:52Speaker 05

  And you handle, I've watched you handle like the festival and I've seen you handle the way that people approach you. And I just feel that you're very mature and capable and like competent at all of this.

• 23:05Speaker 04

  Oh, thank you very much.

• 23:06Speaker 05

  And I wonder, like, do you feel like you had to grow up really quick?

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Yeah. That was, there was a, there's a good conversation around it. It's like a weird ebb and flow of it of prioritizing a maintenance of innocence and a maintenance of childhood, but also understanding that if that were the case, then there will be problems that come up with that, that there will be growing pains there. And so there are certain situations where growing up quickly and kind of gaining a bit of a shell. Earlier is beneficial, just objectively.

• 23:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 04

  And I think that's just understanding that, learning that there are so many people that just do not have your best interest at heart. And to develop the skills and tools to, to recognize what that looks like. And to let that hurt your feelings because that's a good thing and then move on from those people. That's not something you learn until your adulthood usually, and that's something you have to pick in this. When it's an industry that is kind of, I mean, so much of the conversation around kids in the industry has been dominated by how many adults have tried to take advantage of them through that process.

• 24:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 04

  And that's just something that you're, what's really great about it. In the context of, of me and the other kids on the show was that we were told about this the minute we started working on it. It wasn't anything that we had to discover, anybody around us had to discover. The whole big wave of, of everything that happened over at Nickelodeon and like even like the Brat Pack days of hearing about even the, the little things like lack of education on set and lack of child labor laws, like that had all been sorted out. And then of course, there's so much that comes through about understanding that like in this industry. There was so much predatory behavior as well to look out for.

• 24:59Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:00Speaker 04

  And because we were aware to look out for these things and to have our parents close to us at all times. And to understand that as cool as everybody is and as fun as it is to engage in a professional, in a work, in a workplace and talk to adults, it feels like you're growing up faster. To keep everything kind of at arm's reach was, was inscribed very early. And of course, when you're 13, you ask why, and then they tell you why, like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll do that.

• 25:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 04

  And so that's weird to learn very early, but very necessary.

• 25:33Speaker 04

  To ensure our, our safety in that, in that type of environment.

• 25:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  For sure. But like that, all the sets that I'd worked on, because everything was so, there was so much emphasis on ensuring safety. They always were, which is very nice.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  I feel like even, even just the. Like I had to grow up very quickly in a different way because I was poor and my mom was like working all the time. So it was like this different kind of thing, but I relate to people who got like successful at their career really early in this way that I'm like, I see similar traits that I'm like, I knew how to carry myself in adult spaces at an age that I, it was only beneficial to know these things, but I probably shouldn't have known them.

• 26:11Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 26:12Speaker 05

  And I think like, a lot of it nets out positive. Like I think there's so many positive things about, look, you're 23 years old and you're like, are running a massive fucking business. You know, you have, you have like your pick of creative projects. You know how you like to work. You like, you show up on time, you know your lines. Like these are things that like, a lot of people getting a job at 23 wouldn't fucking do. You know what I mean? That you would, a lot of, a lot of us would be like, well, he's late again and he doesn't know his lines. You know what I mean?

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Right.

• 26:37Speaker 05

  So a lot of it nets out positive, but it is an interesting thing to, to get so much attention at the age that you got it and have handled it so positively. I just feel like that must've been a crazy experience.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  I think so, but it's all, it's the only experience I had.

• 26:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  So it's not like there's any reference point outside of it. There's not, it's not like I can really compare and contrast because it's just the experience I lived in, especially when you're, you normalize everything when you're a kid. And that's why breaking down so many things that were not normal is so hard to do in your adulthood because the whole point of being a kid and protecting yourself is normalizing things that aren't normal around you.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:12Speaker 04

  And so that's why it never really felt, as much as people told me and all of us how crazy of a situation it was that we were in, we were always around each other and were able to, I guess, relate to each other or just, we never really had conversations about, oh man, this is weird, right? Cause it was, it wasn't us and it just didn't really, I think it was weirder probably for the older members of the cast, probably the teenagers who started the show at 23.

• 27:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:40Speaker 04

  I think like, yeah, Natalia was like 19, Joe, Joe Keery was like 23, I think, when he started the show, probably around the same age. So they had that lived experience of becoming an adult and then a sudden shift. And that I think is probably way more of a boat rock than.

• 27:56Speaker 04

  Doing it at 13.

• 27:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Weirdly enough.

• 27:58Speaker 05

  What do you think is that you, I mean, that was really interesting, what you said about normalizing things that aren't normal. I feel like that's a really good thing for all of us to think about in terms of just like a lot of things that are happening in general in the world right now.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 05

  Like what we get comfortable with, even though it shouldn't be comfortable.

• 28:13Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 28:14Speaker 05

  What do you think is the most abnormal thing that became normal for you during that time? Is there anything that that like sticks in your mind when you say that? Or are you just kind of like general as a?

• 28:21Speaker 04

  I think just intense, like people pleasing to adults in a weird way.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  I think there's this mentality, and I think it comes from a place of meaning. Well, I, people are way more aware of their boundaries now with me in my twenties than they were when I was 13, which seems odd. You think that anytime you were interacting with somebody who was a child, who was obviously like, the first thought is like, all right, where's your parent? Can I ask them if I can say hi and talk about your show? But there was a weird mentality of like, ah, yeah, get over here, kid. Nah, you're fine. Yeah. You want to take this, this picture with me real quick?

• 29:00Speaker 05

  Right, yeah.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  Which is a little bit weird. And of course, I was like, yes, of course, of course. And anytime I'd say no, there was always like a you little shit mentality. I remember that that happened once or twice. I remember I was in like Denver for a convention and I was eating dinner with my dad and somebody had come over and asked for a picture. And I remember I was like, I, I said, I'm not going to do one right now just because if I take one here, then sometimes it, because it's a very busy place and I've already like been clocked elsewhere that usually when I take one, then it's like, okay, great. Then he's willing to take.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  Pictures. So other people come up. And I remember like, but let me come to you when I finish up my meal before I leave. And then I, yeah, I always felt like, because she was around my age at the time, too. And then her mom came over and just like cursed me out and.

• 29:52Speaker 05

  Whoa.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. Was like, you are not famous enough to say no to a picture. Who the fuck do you think you are? That type of thing. My dad did not take like nicely to it.

• 30:01Speaker 05

  Yeah. I can't imagine that was received.

• 30:04Speaker 04

  No, it wasn't received well at all. Yeah, I've never seen my dad closer to just like drop kicking a stranger in the head. And yeah, it was so embarrassing. And obviously in retrospect, they are in the wrong. But ever since then, for years after that, I always said yes to pictures after that.

• 30:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:23Speaker 04

  And even in situations where I probably could have been like, it's not the best time. If I, even like now, I'll be running painfully late to something that I'm already late for, and someone will stop me. And I think it's very much a good time to be like, I really wish I could. I just have to keep on running because I'm already late for something. And even now, I'm like, okay, yeah. And I do, I always like to, there's not, I don't have an aversion to doing it at all. Cause it's the only job, and it's one of the only jobs in the world where people actively stop you on a day and say, I appreciate what you do for a living. That's really cool. It's made a difference in my day to day. And that's something that's incredible to hear. It's very, very rare.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  That, cause everybody's job makes a difference to everybody, but it's rare that people hear that on a daily basis. And that's really, really special. So I want to acknowledge that and make that interaction special for somebody who may like the show. So I very rarely, I don't usually say no to pictures at all, but like in those weird little times where it may not be the best time to do it, I get so anxious with the idea. I'm like, I really hope that a mom doesn't curse me out again.

• 31:24Speaker 05

  Well, that's insane.

• 31:25Speaker 04

  It was so my, yeah, that was tough.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  April 15th, tax deadline is coming fast. That's my new take on it, like confrontational. But don't worry.

• 31:42Speaker 05

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• 31:59Speaker 05

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• 32:42Speaker 05

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• 33:11Speaker 05

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• 35:24Speaker 05

  Okay, we need to talk about this.

• 35:29Speaker 05

  Cause it's kind of a big deal. Fabletics just dropped denim. Yes, real denim, not athleisure-inspired, actual structured, durable, premium-feel denim. If you know Fabletics, you probably think of them for performance gear. So seeing them step into denim, ah, it's a serious level up. They have millions of loyal members who trust their fit. So seeing them bring that same innovation into denim is exciting. And this is a brand-new drop, new styles, new washes and sizes will not sit around forever. The only downside to great denim is the price. But because this is their launch, new VIPs unlock major savings on their first purchase. So trying this new denim right now actually makes sense. Now, here's the part that actually shocked me. I'm telling you guys, I saw this, I was shocked.

• 36:12Speaker 05

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• 36:39Speaker 05

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• 36:45Speaker 05

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• 37:19Speaker 05

  Well, but again, though, that to me, that to me is an illustration of that thing of like, this is, again, someone who has not experienced that level, a level of attention on, at scale, that we might call fame. They haven't experienced fame. They imagine that they would like it and they imagine they would do it better than people that are doing it now. But they go, I would never, they go, if I were you, I would never say no to that picture. That's what's going on in the brain.

• 37:41Speaker 04

  And that's the mentality I had jumping in. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm being presented with this. Yeah. And I keep hearing, I keep hearing stories about how people are just dicks. Once this becomes a part of their life. I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. So I spent so much of my time, I guess, trying to prove to myself that I was not gonna do that. And that's been a weird adjustment, too. Of like, recently, I'm like, it's okay if someone doesn't necessarily like me in a specific interaction. That's fine. If it's, of course, I'm never actively going to try to be a dick to somebody. Right. Like, ever in a day to day. It's just, I just don't enjoy that. That's not, that inherently kind of scares me. Yeah. How do you, I'm sure that must have been

• 38:21Speaker 04

  a pretty sudden shift on your end for it becoming pretty intense very quickly.

• 38:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, 100%. It's only getting weirder by the day.

• 38:30Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 38:31Speaker 05

  I

• 38:31Speaker 04

  Do you have a moment that you remember of being like, oh shit?

• 38:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, there are like little ones over time, because at first it was just like, it was kind of like an if you know, you know, type of thing. Whereas like, if I'm in Brooklyn or LA or Chicago, and I go to a place where there's gay people, one or two people are gonna want a picture.

• 38:47Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 38:47Speaker 05

  And that was like, I was like, cool, no worries.

• 38:49Speaker 04

  That's like, that's like a sweet spot, right?

• 38:51Speaker 05

  Totally manageable. 100% a sweet spot.

• 38:53Speaker 04

  Oh, this is awesome. Like, every now and again.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  You can kind of turn it on and turn it off. It's like, if I'm in like rural fucking Kansas at a gas station, I'm safe. I'm good to be normal. And then if I want, if I really want some attention today, it's like, well, just get to Chicago and get to that gay coffee shop. You know what I mean?

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Like, when you went home, because you're Kansas City, yeah?

• 39:09Speaker 05

  Right.

• 39:09Speaker 04

  Was it kind of a haven of being able, like, I'm

• 39:13Speaker 05

  It still kind of is. I mean, people don't fully leave me alone in Kansas City, but it's so respectful. And I will say, like, I was just, Trixie Mattel and I were just in Kansas City at the same time. And I was like, taking her around and trying to socialize her like a sick dog, you know?

• 39:28Speaker 04

  Yes, of course.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  Teach her how, what it's like to be around people, you know? These drag queens don't know how to act in public. So I was trying, I was like, take the makeup off, let's shake some hands, let's, you know, I'm trying, I told her, please and thank you, that was new for her. Better, she doesn't bite anymore.

• 39:43Speaker 04

  That's good.

• 39:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, she doesn't bite anymore. And leash training, we're working on.

• 39:50Speaker 05

  But I was, yeah, I was taking her out for walks and people were, yeah, it was just like, it was a very respectful, like, even when people did, it was very much an acknowledgement of like, I'm so sorry, I know I'm bothering you, I love your stuff. And then a quick like-

• 40:03Speaker 04

  And that's 99.9% of interactions.

• 40:05Speaker 05

  It was really sweet. I've gotten, I will say, as, as things have upticked in intensity, I have started to set some boundaries and I never thought I would have any.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 40:14Speaker 05

  But getting cornered in bathrooms is a new thing.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  Bathroom's is tough.

• 40:17Speaker 05

  Bathroom's is weird as fuck.

• 40:18Speaker 04

  Bathroom's is weird as fuck. You ever get a shoulder tap at the urinal?

• 40:20Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 40:21Speaker 04

  Yes, I've gotten a shoulder tap at the urinal.

• 40:22Speaker 05

  Dick in hand. Could I get a photo? I love your work.

• 40:28Speaker 05

  And also, I'm gay, so like, be careful.

• 40:32Speaker 05

  You start tapping me at the urinal, I'm like, I don't know what day we're having. I'm ready to have that day, but we need to make sure.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  Airport.

• 40:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, truly. Chase down the street is another thing, like, that's been happening more and more.

• 40:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:42Speaker 05

  I don't like chase down the street, please don't chase me.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  I don't like, because I'm not a fast runner, so it's not like I have an option.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  You're gonna catch me.

• 40:49Speaker 04

  That's what's scary.

• 40:50Speaker 05

  Hey, you'll get there. You know, it's like-

• 40:53Speaker 04

  They have the power in that jet fully.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  You know, in, in horror movies where the, the killer only really walks at a brisk speed and you can't seem to catch him? You will catch me like that. You didn't need to pick up your pace at all, you're gonna get me. Yeah, that stuff. So I've started to be a little like, or if I'm having like a, a private conversation, I've started to be a little better about being like, thank you, that's so sweet, I'm in the middle of a kind of private thing right now, but have a great night.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 05

  And the thing you said, I've, I've really employed around being like, hey, not right now, but on my way out, I'll come find you. That's been really helpful to be like, I'm not gonna disrupt my whole flow of being in this room right now and like, open up a gate, but on my way out, I'll come over and do it. But what, you know, it's just an interesting, it is an interesting thing, because the thing you said about people, it being the only job where people tell you they like your work, it means the world to me that anyone cares about what I do.

• 41:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:39Speaker 05

  And then also, I have to, if I- I just feel like if you engage with it too much, not you, not you, not you, Roy, you, Caleb, I feel like if I, Caleb, engage with it too much and think about the number of people who watch and listen to me too much, I will become an insane person. And I am trying so hard to maintain normalcy and a connection to the real world that I'm just like, I almost view it as like, help me out, like, help me, help me maintain some normalcy. And if I express a boundary, like, consider helping me out, you know?

• 42:12Speaker 04

  Do you, do you look at the numbers? Do you look at the engagement?

• 42:15Speaker 05

  No, but I, it's known, you know what I mean? Like, I know, like, I know about how many people this show reaches a month. I know about how many people have seen the HBO special. I know, like, you know, I know when I go on someone else's show and it's, if it happens to be one of their most watched episodes or something, I can, or I understand even too, like, when people come up to me, my approaches are interesting because a lot of them have a different thing they're coming up for.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 42:40Speaker 05

  That they're like, I loved you on so and so show, or I loved your HBO special. So I can actually tell by what they're saying to me where they're coming to me from.

• 42:47Speaker 04

  That's pretty special.

• 42:48Speaker 05

  Do you know what I mean?

• 42:49Speaker 04

  That's really, is that not really cool?

• 42:50Speaker 05

  It's cool, but it's weird. Cause they're getting different, like, a person, it's funny, a person who comes up to me because they loved me on Z Way is very different from a person who comes up to me because they loved me on Royal Court.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 43:02Speaker 05

  You know, and so I'm, it's almost like I start to think about the interaction I'm about to have.

• 43:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:06Speaker 05

  You know?

• 43:07Speaker 04

  That's interesting.

• 43:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  Does that make you change the way that you approach the rest of that conversation?

• 43:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, cause I know what they want. You know what I mean? Like, if they love me from Z Way, they want me to be kind of mean to them.

• 43:19Speaker 05

  They want me to be a little, they want me to be like, nice shirt, you know, or something like that. Like, that's what they think I am.

• 43:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, right, right.

• 43:26Speaker 05

  You know?

• 43:26Speaker 04

  And that's fun.

• 43:28Speaker 05

  It's cool. It's cool. Okay, what's so true to you?

• 43:32Speaker 04

  Oh, man.

• 43:33Speaker 05

  Do you have a so true for this episode?

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Dude, I have to tell you, do not feel any way about it. There is something about this show, nobody comes with one. Do you know what it is?

• 43:45Speaker 04

  I have one that's fun. I think that Zemeckis's Christmas Carol is objectively a perfect movie.

• 43:50Speaker 05

  Whoa. Whoa.

• 43:55Speaker 05

  Gaten, you're gonna get cancelled. Okay, tell me about Zemeckis's Christmas Carol.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  This is the one with Jim Carrey.

• 44:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  With the really awkward looking mocap before, I think, it was like the Polar Express style motion capture in context of a Christmas Carol. And most people like, it's just disturbing and it looks weird and it's off putting. And it's just, I tried to like introduce my kids to this story and they just left terrified.

• 44:24Speaker 04

  The ghost of Christmas present like disintegrates into like a laughing skeleton.

• 44:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:28Speaker 04

  And, but dude, that story is terrifying.

• 44:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  That story is about how insanely guttingly terrifying it is for this dude. And that's why he changed his life.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, ghosts visit you to tell you that you're living your life wrong.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  And that you're gonna go to hell.

• 44:41Speaker 05

  It's not an upbeat tale.

• 44:42Speaker 04

  That's what it is. It's like, if you don't stop doing this, you're gonna, you're going to hell. I guarantee that you are.

• 44:49Speaker 05

  My kids couldn't get on board with it.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Like, I feel like we were like weirdly watered down with the Mickey Christmas Carol.

• 44:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:57Speaker 04

  And like goofy coming in with the chains and, you know what I'm talking about?

• 45:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, 100%.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  Funny, it's like cute and cool and it looks fun. And like the Muppets one is great and it's a classic story, but at its core, it is an absolute night. It's literally a nightmare.

• 45:10Speaker 05

  Harrowing nightmare.

• 45:11Speaker 04

  It's an absolute nightmare.

• 45:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:13Speaker 04

  And that movie looks like it. And I'm obsessed with it.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  Ugh, I hate Mondays. King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Uh, Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  Taylor Hanson? Nice. Try one. Mmm.

• 45:38Speaker 03

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.

• 45:46Speaker 04

  Jim Carrey plays...

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Scrooge and all three ghosts.

• 45:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, he's a.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  And he's incredible.

• 45:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  Does he play Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come? There's no lines. I don't know if it's his body doing the pointing. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know.

• 46:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  It's crazy. There's some things that don't really work. There's like a crazy sequence in The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come where you get shrunken down and you get like surfs on an icicle.

• 46:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  It's bizarre and weird, but it is actually the only time that I think that like that book scares me and that movie scares me. And so I I relate that to be like, they did this the right way.

• 46:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 04

  And the cast is crazy. The cast is awesome.

• 46:29Speaker 05

  Who's all in it? I don't think I know.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Gary Oldman is in it.

• 46:31Speaker 05

  Oh, fuck.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  And, yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  I love him.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  Robin Wright's in it as well.

• 46:34Speaker 05

  Love her. Of course she's in it.

• 46:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  And I think it's awesome.

• 46:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 46:38Speaker 04

  Gary Oldman's in it.

• 46:39Speaker 05

  Gary Oldman?

• 46:40Speaker 04

  Gary Oldman plays Jacob Marley.

• 46:42Speaker 05

  Why the fuck didn't I know Gary Oldman is in this?

• 46:44Speaker 04

  This movie rocks. And the thing is, is that I thought that I would talk to film buffs about this and be like, all right, let's get together. This movie, this movie rocks, right?

• 46:53Speaker 05

  You're convening clandestine meetings of film buffs, being like, just so we're all on the same page.

• 46:58Speaker 04

  This movie rocks and everybody says I'm insane.

• 47:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:01Speaker 04

  I don't think I'm insane.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  I don't think I'm insane. Let's put that on the record.

• 47:09Speaker 04

  I think in this context, I think people don't give it a shot because it's like, maybe the animation doesn't hold up. But how many amazing movies don't hold up visually?

• 47:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  That we don't discount those movies for.

• 47:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  Like Empire Strikes Back doesn't look up to par. It's still a perfect movie.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, you love Star Wars.

• 47:27Speaker 04

  I love Star Wars.

• 47:28Speaker 05

  You're not kidding around about Star Wars.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  I don't. I don't fuck around about Star Wars in the slightest.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  Yeah. What? What is your favorite of the Star Wars movies?

• 47:33Speaker 04

  I know that Empire Strikes Back is the best movie.

• 47:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 04

  But my favorite one to watch growing up is Return of the Jedi.

• 47:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 04

  I, it's just like the most like fun space adventure vibe.

• 47:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  But I remember, did you see David Kornswet talk about this on Royal Court?

• 47:48Speaker 05

  No.

• 47:49Speaker 04

  He talked about his order in which he likes to watch Star Wars and I had this. I agreed with him wholeheartedly.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  And I remember I was like, I've never heard anybody else mention that this is the way to do it, where you go four, five. One, two, three, six.

• 48:04Speaker 05

  Four, five, one, two, three, six.

• 48:06Speaker 04

  Or some people say you can skip Phantom Menace.

• 48:08Speaker 05

  In that order. And which one's that?

• 48:09Speaker 04

  That's the first one. That's that. Well, the first one chronologically. That's Darth Maul, Krygon Jin.

• 48:13Speaker 05

  Four, five, two, three, six. Then it would be the sequence?

• 48:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, four, five, two, three, six. This is for people who have never seen Star Wars before because you still get the twist in Empire Strikes Back, the classic.

• 48:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  I can say it's his dad, right?

• 48:27Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 48:29Speaker 05

  No, I think you're totally safe. The window has expired on spoiling that.

• 48:32Speaker 04

  I think it's fine. It's been 50 years. Yeah, I think it's fine.

• 48:35Speaker 05

  Dude, speaking of, one time, I think during COVID, I got on a big kick. I watched every single minute, no phone, very focused of The Crown on Netflix.

• 48:45Speaker 04

  Oh, it's great.

• 48:46Speaker 05

  Okay. And I posted about.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  It's great.

• 48:48Speaker 05

  It's incredible.

• 48:49Speaker 04

  It's incredible.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Every performance legendary.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  Insane.

• 48:51Speaker 05

  And I posted something on Instagram about something that happened one of the episodes. And someone legitimately got mad at me and were like, no spoilers. And I was like, hey,

• 48:59Speaker 04

  It's history.

• 49:00Speaker 05

  This happened.

• 49:02Speaker 05

  I'm like, I can't spoil an event of the royal family. This occurred.

• 49:07Speaker 04

  This infuriates me. Do you remember, like, I know that there's a great community around it and like, there's, this is why the show works so well. And it's why, like, I love when theater kids engage with shows and make it their whole personality. But I was always so fuming when everyone was like, talking about Hamilton saying, I'm Team Angelica. I'm like, you can't be Team Angelica. These are real people.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  What do you mean you're Team Angelica? This is a historical event.

• 49:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 49:36Speaker 05

  No, you can't ship this. There's no shipping.

• 49:39Speaker 04

  There's no shipping, Angelica.

• 49:41Speaker 05

  That's so fucking funny.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  He married Eliza. That's, that's historically what happened. And you can't be like, man, I just wish that they ended up together. What are you talking about?

• 49:51Speaker 05

  There was no writers' room.

• 49:52Speaker 04

  That's not how this goes.

• 49:53Speaker 05

  This is a thing that happened.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  How do you think that that family would like, just, I also think about that of what do we think founding fathers would look at, at Hamilton and be like, that's like the story that's, the way it's being expressed. I think it would give them like an aneurysm.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 50:07Speaker 04

  You know that that, like, the whole thing of what do you show Victorian child to kill them on sight?

• 50:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 04

  Is that the saying?

• 50:13Speaker 05

  Oh, sure. Totally. Yeah. If you showed a, this would make a Victorian child's head explode or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Something like that.

• 50:19Speaker 05

  Hamilton for the founding fathers.

• 50:20Speaker 04

  Hamilton for the founding fathers.

• 50:21Speaker 05

  Dude, I hope I get to come back and see some shit after I'm gone.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Dude, fly on the wall.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  I want to be fly on the wall.

• 50:26Speaker 04

  It's my girlfriend and her best friend, our best friends, like, whole. Like belief in the afterlife. They're like, I can believe in anything and want anything. It's fly on the wall.

• 50:39Speaker 05

  Do you want, when you die, do you want a celebration of life or mourning?

• 50:44Speaker 04

  I say to be, to bring levity, I want celebration of life, but I'd be bummed if some people didn't cry.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  I want mourning. I want mourning. If I died tomorrow, my ideal is that every person in this room, including you, who I just met, does not recover. And I mean, ever. I mean, never recovers.

• 51:04Speaker 04

  Lifelong.

• 51:05Speaker 05

  I mean, if you guys out with me by 50 years, I hope on the, I hope 50 years from now, on this day, of the day that I hope you wake up, just on a random Tuesday, I hope you wake up unable to go to work. I hope you are so devastated by my loss. Celebration of life? I don't think so.

• 51:20Speaker 04

  No, I don't think so.

• 51:21Speaker 05

  No.

• 51:21Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 51:22Speaker 05

  No dancing at my, no dancing, no remembrances, no funny stories. Weeping tears, mourning, black veils. Estate funeral. I want everyone, I want flags at half mass for eternity.

• 51:35Speaker 04

  This is good.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 04

  It's like in every movie, every like movie where there's a funeral sequence where you see all the black umbrellas like open up and then the rain starts to fall. How many times are we gonna do that in a funeral movie?

• 51:46Speaker 05

  And I want it in real life.

• 51:47Speaker 04

  And you want it in real life.

• 51:47Speaker 05

  I want that for Caleb.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  This is good to know.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  I want that bad. Please, Gaten, promise me you'll make this happen.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  I'll make sure. I mean, that's crazy. If you died, I'm the first one to text you like, hey, guys, by the way.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  Caleb specifically asked me.

• 52:00Speaker 04

  I don't know if you remember the episode. Not to be a pain, I know you guys are going through a lot.

• 52:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, you text my mom. You're like, hey, girl, saw you posting pretty jovially on Instagram.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  He doesn't want you to.

• 52:12Speaker 05

  It's only been a few years since we lost him. Maybe knock it off. No, I want mourning. I want mourning.

• 52:20Speaker 04

  I do too, a little.

• 52:21Speaker 05

  You believe in reincarnation?

• 52:22Speaker 04

  What's your? I would like to.

• 52:24Speaker 05

  Do you have a faith? What is your faith?

• 52:25Speaker 04

  I'm pretty pessimistic about this, this thing.

• 52:27Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  At the moment.

• 52:32Speaker 04

  I wish I wasn't.

• 52:33Speaker 05

  I'm gonna tell you on this thing, yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Because also, there is a vibe, I guess, I guess I'm an atheist, but that's such a like an eye roll of a thing to say you are.

• 52:43Speaker 05

  No.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  But I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual.

• 52:53Speaker 05

  No, because their money is green.

• 52:56Speaker 05

  Still stream pizza movie.

• 52:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please, please.

• 52:58Speaker 05

  If you're a devout Catholic, still stream pizza movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you.

• 53:02Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  But I get in this conversation specifically a lot. And also, it's an awkward conversation to have because I've, I've lost people who, and it like that has made people in my family more religious. And I've lost people like suddenly my cousin passed and he was only 19. And that weirdly like that ignited some, some faith and some, some, I guess, more talk of, of, of God and, and love and stuff like that amongst family members. And then for me, I just like, it didn't like spark that. And so that's awkward to kind of when like discussions come up. And it's not, it's rarely discussed. Like I've talked about this like in public settings. And I'm like, oh man, I hope my grandma's not bummed.

• 53:44Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 04

  That that's the way I feel about it.

• 53:47Speaker 05

  Were you raised in something?

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was raised pretty religious.

• 53:49Speaker 05

  Which one?

• 53:50Speaker 04

  Uh, generally Protestants, I guess. I, I went to Methodist churches.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  I went to a Methodist church growing up, but I think because that was closer to where my house was and my mom was friends with the people in choir.

• 54:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, obsessed with her.

• 54:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 54:04Speaker 05

  She was like, I like the choir and it's close to the house. Guess what? We just became Methodist.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, she was really, she was religious growing up. She, she went on traveling, um, she, she traveled to Europe once on not a missionary situation. She wasn't like preaching, but she was with a musical group that would have like, like Christian based music to crowds of people in like Latvia. I don't, maybe that might be, it's pretty cra- it's pretty cool. I don't ask her about this way. I do not ask her about this enough.

• 54:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  That's a crazy situation.

• 54:39Speaker 05

  Do you know what? I have advice for you.

• 54:41Speaker 04

  Shoot.

• 54:41Speaker 05

  I have one piece of friend to friend advice for you. Have you ever, do you know the New York Times questions to fall in love?

• 54:46Speaker 04

  Mm-mm.

• 54:47Speaker 05

  The question set? It's like 37 questions or something. It's in brackets of intimacy. I've done it with many people that I love in my life. It's meant for partners.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  I have heard about this.

• 54:57Speaker 05

  It's really good.

• 54:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:58Speaker 05

  It's really good. The third bracket, there's some things that like when I did it with my grandma and my mom that you skipped because it's meant for partners. So it's like, hold hands and look into each other's eyes and like that part you don't do. Because it's meant for like physical intimacy, but you skip those ones with your, anyone older in your life that you love, grandparents, mom. The next time you get a chance, sit down with them for like two or three hours, go on a long drive, sit in the house, something, ask these questions. Things came up with, I am very close to my mommy and my grandma. I thought I knew everything about them. Things came up that I have never heard them talk about.

• 55:29Speaker 04

  Oh, it sounds like.

• 55:30Speaker 05

  Never.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Weirdly, that sounds like so much fun.

• 55:32Speaker 05

  It's amazing.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  That sounds amazing.

• 55:33Speaker 05

  It's amazing. And I learned things about both of them. I feel like I understand there have been multiple times since then. This has been a couple of years ago that I've done it with both of them. There have been multiple times that we've been in some kind of dynamic that, you know, whatever, we're just in our relationship. That I have remembered something they've said and I've been like, this is where this is, this is why you do this. This is why you're like this. This is why.

• 55:52Speaker 04

  So interesting.

• 55:52Speaker 05

  This is why we're not connecting on this. You know what I'm saying?

• 55:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. I would love to do this with my mom because she's had a crazy life.

• 55:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, for sure. She's had, or just like the craziest type of upbringing and one that I respect a ton. Cause there was so much in her childhood, growing up that was like, it felt like the world was just out to like kick her ass.

• 56:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  Her and her brother. And growing up, it's another thing you normalize even hearing stories about this, about like, she was raised by her grandparents because her parents just weren't in the picture. And I was like, oh, that's normal. And I grew up later, I'm like, oh, that's not normal in the slightest.

• 56:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:30Speaker 04

  That's so nuts, especially because my dad is like, had like the polar opposite situation. His parents had him when they were 18 and finished having all four of their kids by 23.

• 56:39Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  And are still married today.

• 56:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 04

  And I have like a lot of cousins and we're very, very close on that side. So they had like the polar opposite situation. And it's so cool to see both sides of that, but I never.

• 56:49Speaker 05

  That's also not normal.

• 56:50Speaker 04

  That's also not normal.

• 56:51Speaker 05

  That's like, that's not the norm or the.

• 56:53Speaker 04

  So interesting.

• 56:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, the most.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  Polar opposite types of situations.

• 56:56Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:57Speaker 04

  And that's why I think it's so interesting how they connected when they first were married. My parents aren't married anymore, but they, when I was so, I'm so curious as to how those two opposite situations kind of attracted towards each other.

• 57:09Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:09Speaker 04

  And yeah.

• 57:10Speaker 05

  You have kids?

• 57:11Speaker 04

  I think so, yeah.

• 57:12Speaker 05

  Yeah?

• 57:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, I do.

• 57:14Speaker 05

  Oh, I love that.

• 57:14Speaker 04

  I, for sure. I don't have any plans on it for a good chunk of time.

• 57:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, like not six, seven months.

• 57:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 57:22Speaker 05

  Like, enjoy yourself, relax, be young.

• 57:24Speaker 04

  Enjoy my time, for sure. Take a break, for sure.

• 57:25Speaker 05

  By 25 years.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be yay.

• 57:29Speaker 04

  A few months, for sure. Yeah, I definitely, I've always said, I'm like, yeah, it's like a given. But I don't want to approach it with the mindset of, oh, that's a given. Because I think that's how most people approach bringing children into the world and bringing new lives into the world is, oh, that's kind of the process of growing up and, and living life. And that's like a, a stepping stone and kind of just a rite of passage. But I think that there's a lot of thought that can go into understanding, like, do I have my shit figured out enough to be able to realistically raise a functioning human being and do it well?

• 58:07Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  So, yeah, I would love to. Not yet.

• 58:10Speaker 05

  No, not right now.

• 58:11Speaker 04

  Not yet.

• 58:11Speaker 05

  Not right now.

• 58:12Speaker 04

  Not right now.

• 58:12Speaker 05

  Do you feel generally happy and optimistic about the world? Is that your outlook? What's going on? How are you feeling about everything? Crazy time to be alive.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  Crazy time to be alive.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  What are you thinking?

• 58:23Speaker 04

  That's the go-to.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  That's the go-to.

• 58:24Speaker 04

  I almost spilled my coffee. I am individually a very happy person, but I don't want to just be like, yeah, life's fucking awesome. Because it's also, I'm a very happy person because I'm in the luckiest situation that human beings are in.

• 58:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 04

  And I recognize that fully. Like, there's like, the amount of, there's just an overwhelming bucket load of privilege that comes along with me being able to acknowledge the fact that I get to live happily and feel safe every day. And I don't think that discounts my ability. I still feel like I have, like, I can feel comfy being like, yeah, I'm very happy and I-

• 59:06Speaker 05

  Many people have that and don't feel happy.

• 59:08Speaker 04

  For sure, for sure.

• 59:09Speaker 05

  So it's still an accomplishment?

• 59:10Speaker 04

  It's for sure, it's an accomplishment. But I do, I don't want to be preachy in the sense of, of talking about, like, and you can do it too. Whereas like, that's insane to think about.

• 59:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  I am a straight white guy who is financially secure at 23.

• 59:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 04

  In the United States, which is-

• 59:29Speaker 05

  Not bad.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  Not bad.

• 59:33Speaker 05

  Not bad, huh?

• 59:34Speaker 04

  As far as it goes.

• 59:35Speaker 05

  Shit's pretty good.

• 59:37Speaker 04

  As far as the cards are dealt, that's a, that's a pretty.

• 59:40Speaker 05

  A lot of people.

• 59:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, like I recognize fully that's like, I can't just be like, what are people talking about?

• 59:45Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  This place rocks.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  Like, everyone, cheer up.

• 59:51Speaker 05

  No, I'm.

• 59:52Speaker 04

  Like, I'm fully aware that it would be insane of me for my life's message to be like, why don't we just smile more?

• 59:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  Because, yeah, that's insane. That would be insane of me.

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  But, like I said, there are, there are plenty of people that have those, the, there are people that have the circumstances that you have, or at least some of them, and do not find themselves to be happy.

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  And I know that's not like, yeah, there's, that's not the key to, there's like, the situation being on paper as good as it can get. That's not necessarily the key to being necessarily a very happy person. Cause that does not guarantee that in the slightest.

• 1:00:22Speaker 05

  I feel the same way you do. I talk about being happy all the time and, and, and trying to have fun and enjoy life. And I increasingly, it's funny because it's taken a turn for me just in the last three years. When I was first talking about that stuff on stage, it genuinely did feel kind of like revolutionary because I was poor and no one cared about my work.

• 1:00:39Speaker 05

  So I was like, the fact that I'm happy is crazy. And then as that has changed, I'm like, this is starting to hit a little different, I guess.

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:00:46Speaker 05

  But it is, I think there, you have to be a some level of optimistic to intentionally want children. To intentionally, even to say like, yeah, I think I'll have kids.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:00:54Speaker 05

  And I'm always interested in that because I have so many friends that are so smart and doing well. And they make a good living and they're safe and comfortable. They have a house that has running water and, and electricity. And these are privileges. And they are like, fuck no. I want nothing to do with that.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:01:08Speaker 05

  So I'm always interested in people who do because I'm like, well, that's interesting. That's, there's some level of optimism involved in that, I feel.

• 1:01:14Speaker 04

  I obviously, I would like there to be a legitimate reason. I would like that to be normalized.

• 1:01:20Speaker 05

  Optimism?

• 1:01:21Speaker 04

  Optimism, but when it comes, I think for sure optimism, but I mean, in, in the decision making to have kids. But a lot of times it's not a decision. A lot of times it's just like, oh damn, all right, we're in this situation. We're going for it. We're going for it.

• 1:01:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 04

  And that's, that's how I came along. That's how both of my siblings came along was like, oh shit.

• 1:01:38Speaker 05

  Whoops.

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  Here we go.

• 1:01:41Speaker 04

  And I understand that that's probably the maj, the vast majority of how people are brought to this earth.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 04

  Damn, I should have wrapped it up.

• 1:01:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Speaker 04

  Well, I wasn't quick enough, so we're having a kid. Yeah. Which is crazy. So, but I, so I understand that that's just like a different situation. But in the, in the, in the concept of, of family planning, of understanding like when, when it is you're deciding to have kids. I would like to normalize there being a legitimate reason as to why I feel that I would service bringing a person here. Yeah. And raising them. Like an intention. An intention. A thought about it at all. A thought about it at all, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's, and that's a great, I wouldn't know yet. Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't be able to think right now and say, this is my reason for why I think bringing a human into this world with another human is the right thing to do for both of us and the person we make. Yeah.

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  And that, yeah, I just, I've got time to figure that out. So it's not a priority for me. Yeah. When, what, what makes you the happiest? When are you the happiest? Oh, that's a really good question.

• 1:02:48Speaker 04

  It, I, what I've started to understand and really love is that I can feel at a weirdly peak level of happiness that I think that I have the ability to feel under very, under very different circumstances. And I think that's been a fun adjustment. It's because I believe in like, I will only be happy if I'm engaging in my life's passion, where I want to do it, when I want to do it. And other than that, I'm not doing it right. And there are times where I'm not actively working and I just have been weirdly, really in sync with the people in my life outside of work. And that's why I feel super happy. And then there are times where I'm not really feeling engaged with my family or with my friends or my girlfriend. And there's like, kind of things that just feel like out of sync for a while.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  But I'm working on something that I really, really love and I'm still very, very happy. So that's, I think it comes in waves. And I figure that out, uh, as it comes along. I've noticed that I feel happiest when, this is a very selfish way of, of, of looking at it because it's just like, when all the circumstances are aligned for like the things that I love. I love being able to work in the city where I live. When my friends and family are also working and living in that same area as me. Cause there are times that's very rare. So anytime I notice that, I'm like, oh man, these are all the things I love about what I get to do with my short bit of time here. And that's a great moment and that always feels very good.

• 1:04:11Speaker 05

  It's the best when you can leave work and be like, oh, I can see someone for dinner.

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  I can see someone for dinner.

• 1:04:15Speaker 05

  I can sleep in my bed tonight.

• 1:04:16Speaker 04

  I can go sleep in my bed. Oh, it's lovely.

• 1:04:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's the best.

• 1:04:19Speaker 04

  It's so lovely. And that's the one thing that's hard with like with this job. It's like most of the time when you're working, it's not at home.

• 1:04:23Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Speaker 04

  It's just a job that you travel for.

• 1:04:25Speaker 05

  To me, the worst situation is working in New York on overnights. Because then it's like, I'm working.

• 1:04:33Speaker 04

  I've yet to do that.

• 1:04:34Speaker 05

  3pm to 7am.

• 1:04:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 05

  I am sleeping all day, which is so unnatural.

• 1:04:38Speaker 04

  It's so weird.

• 1:04:39Speaker 05

  And then I'm going straight back to work. But I'm in the city where so many of my friends and loved ones are doing things.

• 1:04:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 05

  I'm like, I almost wish I was in fucking Vancouver or like.

• 1:04:48Speaker 04

  There was like, there was a disconnect.

• 1:04:49Speaker 05

  Croatia or something. So I'm like, then I could just be like, oh, the reason I'm not seeing anyone is because I'm away. Instead of like, oh, if I slept two hours less, I could squeeze in a lunch with someone, but then I'll be tired at work. Like the, the math even being possible.

• 1:05:02Speaker 04

  That it's rare for that to line up.

• 1:05:03Speaker 05

  Working days in New York is working, normal days in New York is great, especially on like a soundstage or something.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 1:05:08Speaker 05

  Get out quicker.

• 1:05:08Speaker 04

  You got, that's, it basically is close. Anytime you're working inside, it's basically as close to a nine to five as this job can get.

• 1:05:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, and it's awesome.

• 1:05:15Speaker 04

  It's awesome.

• 1:05:15Speaker 05

  That was Devil Wears Prada.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

  It, oh.

• 1:05:17Speaker 05

  Devil Wears Prada was on a.

• 1:05:18Speaker 04

  How long did you shoot on that?

• 1:05:20Speaker 05

  Like 17 days.

• 1:05:21Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:05:21Speaker 05

  Mine was quick and it was like, it was gorgeous. It was on this beautiful soundstage.

• 1:05:27Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 1:05:27Speaker 05

  Everything ran like a machine in Queens.

• 1:05:29Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:05:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 04

  Oh dude.

• 1:05:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 1:05:32Speaker 05

  It was awesome. And then there were all the other soundstages, everyone would file out into this like one shared street where everyone was like eating and reading books and in costume and getting their hair done while they walk. And it was just like.

• 1:05:40Speaker 04

  So fun.

• 1:05:41Speaker 05

  We're making movies, baby. This is what it's all about. We're making films.

• 1:05:45Speaker 04

  This is lovely.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  I'm just watching, I was, I would between takes, I would just go sit outside because it was really nice. It was like fall weather. I would go sit outside like in my costume and wait to be in the next take. Cause there, you know, there'd be a setup. I was in the background of a lot of Meryl scenes, uh, which is an honor.

• 1:05:59Speaker 04

  That's awesome.

• 1:06:00Speaker 05

  But they, you know, sometimes I'd be framed out or whatever. So I'd have like three hours to kill.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 1:06:03Speaker 05

  And I'd just sit outside and read my book and talk to whoever was going by. And what was really fun. Was, it was the first time I've been around long enough now and made enough things that, just barely, that I ran into people I knew from past projects.

• 1:06:16Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 1:06:16Speaker 05

  I got run into like-

• 1:06:17Speaker 04

  It's not fun.

• 1:06:18Speaker 05

  A P A from three movies ago. And it was so fun.

• 1:06:21Speaker 04

  It's so fun.

• 1:06:22Speaker 05

  I was like-

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  It's so small world.

• 1:06:23Speaker 05

  I know people.

• 1:06:24Speaker 04

  It really does make it, make you understand how few, I think, people, and relative to like, how, how big the, the industry seems.

• 1:06:32Speaker 05

  Especially on the crew side.

• 1:06:32Speaker 04

  On the crew side, the amount of people that just like cycle through.

• 1:06:35Speaker 05

  You just keep running into these- And it's someone awesome. It's like, oh my god, that fucking, that like, uh, key grip that I loved from that movie is now here working on this thing and we get to hang out all over again.

• 1:06:45Speaker 04

  It rocks.

• 1:06:46Speaker 05

  It's the best thing ever.

• 1:06:47Speaker 04

  It's so fun.

• 1:06:47Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:06:48Speaker 04

  It feels like, I don't know, it feels like starting school. I never went to summer camp, and I don't know why I keep on bringing up summer camp and the things-

• 1:06:56Speaker 05

  You're loving summer camp right now.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  I'm, I keep on saying-

• 1:06:58Speaker 05

  Summer camp's on the brain.

• 1:06:59Speaker 04

  Summer camp's on the brain. But it would be like, almost like you find out that a friend you made at camp is going to your same school the next year.

• 1:07:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Speaker 04

  It's like, oh, and then it's like, you get to pick up where you left off and you thought, because you did so many goodbyes and it's like, I really liked getting to know you, this is awesome. You exchange numbers, you're like, well, hang. And then a few weeks pass and then you work, you inevitably work on other things. And like, the bummer of it is that you realize it's just like, you rarely get around to doing so. And so it's really fun. When you jump back onto a set and you get to just immediately-

• 1:07:26Speaker 05

  Fall back in.

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, fall right back into it.

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  Just interesting to hear you say that you exchange numbers with people. I asked for your number at the end of Pizza Movie and you said no.

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  That's bullshit. I've had your number for months. I've had your number for like a year. That sucks.

• 1:07:38Speaker 05

  I said, I said, Gaten, it was so much fun working with you.

• 1:07:40Speaker 04

  The day we wrapped.

• 1:07:41Speaker 05

  I'd love to stay in touch and you said, sorry man. You said, call my publicist.

• 1:07:46Speaker 04

  We'll flag it with the team and then maybe-

• 1:07:48Speaker 05

  I flagged it with the team.

• 1:07:49Speaker 04

  Flag it with the team.

• 1:07:50Speaker 05

  I tried to walk up to you, I tried to walk up to you and your security guard went, "Excuse me?" No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding, guys. I'm playing.

• 1:07:56Speaker 04

  Oh, that's funny.

• 1:07:57Speaker 05

  I'm playing, guys.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  Oh, that'd be so, oh, that'd be good.

• 1:08:00Speaker 05

  Gaten, I have a game for you.

• 1:08:01Speaker 04

  Please.

• 1:08:02Speaker 05

  We play it every episode on this show.

• 1:08:03Speaker 04

  I can't wait.

• 1:08:04Speaker 05

  Okay, it's a true false segment.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  Amazing.

• 1:08:07Speaker 05

  Um, ba, ba, ba, da, ba. Basically, what's gonna happen here is I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can after each one if what I just said was true or false.

• 1:08:16Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:08:16Speaker 05

  And Gaten, if you get 10 or more correct- Don't get too excited. We're gonna give you 50 US dollars.

• 1:08:24Speaker 05

  I know, I know.

• 1:08:25Speaker 04

  This is good.

• 1:08:25Speaker 05

  Stranger Things is over, brother. It's time to get back to work. It's time to clock in. Alright. Dr. Seuss wrote Charlotte's Web.

• 1:08:32Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:08:32Speaker 05

  False. It was E.B. White. The airplane was invented in 1903.

• 1:08:35Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:08:36Speaker 05

  True. Alaska has the most lakes of any US state.

• 1:08:39Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  True. Elton John's middle name is Hercules.

• 1:08:42Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:08:42Speaker 05

  True. Goldfish don't sleep.

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:08:45Speaker 05

  False.

• 1:08:46Speaker 04

  Fuck.

• 1:08:48Speaker 05

  Pineapple's regional high school's yearbook is called a cat tail.

• 1:08:51Speaker 04

  False.

• 1:08:52Speaker 05

  It's true.

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  No, it's not. It's the cat eye.

• 1:08:54Speaker 05

  Oh, Chance.

• 1:08:56Speaker 04

  Wait, that's their website. Sorry.

• 1:08:59Speaker 05

  You wouldn't be the first to challenge Chance. Passports for US adults are valid for 12 years.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  False. It's 10.

• 1:09:05Speaker 05

  False. It's 10. Wendy's is older than Taco Bell.

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:09:08Speaker 05

  False. The mascot for Kraft Mac and cheese is the Cheesosaurus Rex.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  That's not true. No, it's not. I eat Kraft Mac and cheese once a week.

• 1:09:15Speaker 05

  It's Cheesosaurus Rex.

• 1:09:16Speaker 04

  I've never seen Cheesosaurus Rex. Wait, show me Cheesosaurus Rex.

• 1:09:19Speaker 05

  We'll pull it up. The Property Brothers are not twins.

• 1:09:22Speaker 04

  The Property Brothers are twins.

• 1:09:24Speaker 05

  They are twins. They're identical twins, so it's false. The New Jersey state drink is cranberry juice.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  That would make sense, so I'm gonna say true.

• 1:09:30Speaker 05

  It's true. The Drowsy Chaperone won five Tony Awards.

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  That's got, oh, that's true. Yes. Did it not win any? Did it? True.

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  It's true.

• 1:09:40Speaker 04

  True, yeah, okay. Don't look at me like that. It sucks.

• 1:09:42Speaker 05

  A group of cheetahs is called a pride.

• 1:09:45Speaker 04

  One more time?

• 1:09:46Speaker 05

  A group of cheetahs is called a pride.

• 1:09:49Speaker 04

  Their cat's so true.

• 1:09:50Speaker 05

  False. It's called a coalition. It's horrifying.

• 1:09:54Speaker 04

  That's so annoying.

• 1:09:55Speaker 05

  The original Motorola Razr did not have a camera.

• 1:10:01Speaker 04

  True.

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  It's false.

• 1:10:04Speaker 05

  Anakin Skywalker's mother's name is Shmi.

• 1:10:07Speaker 04

  Shmi Skywalker, that's true.

• 1:10:08Speaker 05

  That is true. How do you do? Six.

• 1:10:14Speaker 04

  Show me Cheesosaurus Rex.

• 1:10:16Speaker 05

  Pull up Cheesosaurus Rex now.

• 1:10:18Speaker 04

  There's no way.

• 1:10:19Speaker 05

  Put Cheesosaurus Rex right here in the episode, I'm begging.

• 1:10:22Speaker 04

  I am a crab, mac and cheese connoisseur.

• 1:10:23Speaker 06

  It's kind of shocking you haven't seen.

• 1:10:25Speaker 05

  Cheesosaurus Rex.

• 1:10:26Speaker 04

  When's the last time they've used Cheesosaurus Rex?

• 1:10:28Speaker 05

  I'm assuming, is it not on the boxes? Chance does this to people, dude. He's a very nefarious actor. He's a bad agent.

• 1:10:36Speaker 06

  I don't know why this is not.

• 1:10:37Speaker 05

  Chance, you think you want to pull the picture up?

• 1:10:38Speaker 06

  I know, it's not connecting to my.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  But I guess we can just say it's false.

• 1:10:44Speaker 04

  Cheesosaurus Rex, and I'm gonna remember what this guy looks like, too.

• 1:10:46Speaker 05

  Oh, there he is. Oh, you've seen him.

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  That guy hasn't been used since 1993. Look at that guy.

• 1:10:52Speaker 05

  Look at him.

• 1:10:53Speaker 04

  That.

• 1:10:54Speaker 05

  You love him.

• 1:10:55Speaker 04

  I don't think I've seen that guy.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  Look at him. Chance, is it still in use?

• 1:10:59Speaker 06

  Uh, he is used in select promotional campaigns.

• 1:11:02Speaker 05

  That means he's retired.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  Primarily from like 1997 to like 2013, but he still appears on some boxes and things.

• 1:11:09Speaker 04

  That looks like 1982 to 87.

• 1:11:11Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, if he was gonna say like.

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  He was a float in the Macy's Day Parade?

• 1:11:16Speaker 05

  He's very famous, Cheesosaurus Rex. It's cool to be cheesy.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  It certainly is.

• 1:11:22Speaker 05

  Oh wait, click on that shirt. Do I need that shirt? Go down, bottom, right, right, right. Oh my god.

• 1:11:27Speaker 06

  That's sick.

• 1:11:28Speaker 05

  We need to get that for you.

• 1:11:29Speaker 04

  That's a great idea.

• 1:11:30Speaker 05

  You need that.

• 1:11:31Speaker 04

  I will look that up.

• 1:11:32Speaker 05

  Chance, buy that for Gaten on my dime.

• 1:11:33Speaker 04

  If I do get that, though, but maybe can I, that's a hundred and forty-five dollars?

• 1:11:37Speaker 05

  I don't care how much it costs. No price is too big for my boy.

• 1:11:41Speaker 04

  Wait, can I get it so that it can be the thing you display on my behalf here?

• 1:11:44Speaker 05

  No, it's too big, but we should, we should put a Cheesosaurus Rex on the set.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  A Cheesosaurus Rex is a really good, cute little thing.

• 1:11:49Speaker 05

  We're gonna put Gaten's Cheesosaurus Rex on the set. Don't let me forget. Don't let me forget. Wait, what's that other one, the long sleeved one? Get him that as well.

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  Is that?

• 1:12:00Speaker 06

  This looks like a Brian Robert Jones.

• 1:12:01Speaker 04

  Dude, I love that shirt.

• 1:12:02Speaker 05

  Buy every Cheesosaurus Rex shirt you can find and send it to Gaten's house immediately. It's like, it's like funny at first, but then you get like seven more Cheesosaurus Rex shirts from me. You start telling people, you're like, Kailbaren's kind of a weird guy.

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  You block my number and keep sending me.

• 1:12:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never talk to you. I see you in public. I avoid you. I just keep sending the Rec shirts. She's a source Rec shirts every day. Oh shit.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  So, oh my gosh, look at that guy wearing it like a little model.

• 1:12:31Speaker 05

  We gotta put some of these on screen so people know what we're talking about.

• 1:12:34Speaker 04

  That Hollister pose.

• 1:12:35Speaker 05

  Why would he ever be surfing on water and not cheese?

• 1:12:38Speaker 04

  I don't, that's a waste of opportunity for sure.

• 1:12:41Speaker 05

  Gaten, thank you so much for being on.

• 1:12:42Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:12:43Speaker 05

  You were an incredible guest. Do you want to tell people, well, Watch Pizza Movie?

• 1:12:46Speaker 04

  Watch Pizza Movie, we're both in it.

• 1:12:48Speaker 05

  Watch Pizza Movie, Gaten's incredible in it.

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  As are you.

• 1:12:50Speaker 05

  Fully his film and they allowed me to show up for a couple of days.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  That's great. We're so happy you did.

• 1:12:55Speaker 05

  Is there anything else you want to tell the people?

• 1:12:56Speaker 04

  I appreciate your investment of your time and your energy.

• 1:13:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. And follow him on Instagram, for god's sakes, you guys.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  I don't post.

• 1:13:05Speaker 05

  He's not, he's not posting his cute pictures on there for nothing. Give this guy a follow. Let's, everybody, everybody, let's bring Gaten to the top. Thanks for doing it, dude.

• 1:13:15Speaker 04

  Thanks, man.

• 1:13:17Speaker 00

  I hate Mondays.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  Hey, let's get back to work, please.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.

• 1:13:38Speaker 03

  King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.