Pod Insights So True with Caleb Hearon Anania Loves Anime About this episode Welcome! This week’s guest is the iconic Anania! Anania and Caleb talk everything from their mutual midwest roots, phobias, hosting Gaydar, Paramore, favorite anime’s, and so much more!
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Produced by Chance Nichols @chanceisloud
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So True is a Headgum podcast, created and hosted by Caleb Hearon. The show is produced by Chance Nichols with Associate Producer Allie Kahan and Executive Producer Emma Foley. So True is engineered by Casey Donahue and engineered and edited by Nicole Lyons. Kaiti Moos is our VP of Content at Headgum. Thanks to Luke Rogers for our show art and Virginia Muller our social media manager.
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Transcript 12,553 words · 5 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Let's be honest, you don't go to the holiday gift exchange just to participate. You go to win. This year, cause a stir. Gift a KitchenAid stand mixer to whip up new traditions. Tis your season to mix it up.
0:16 Speaker 01 This is a HeadGum Podcast.
0:19 Speaker 02 When you came on my show, one of the comments were like Midwest princes. And I was like, oh, not that. Oh, boop. And I literally, like 30 seconds later, I went to go see it again and it was deleted. I was like, what? Yes.
0:33 Speaker 03 New comment, Midwest royalty.
0:41 Speaker 03 Hannah and I are.
0:43 Speaker 02 What I wanted to tell you was, before we actually get into it.
0:45 Speaker 03 Come on.
0:45 Speaker 02 I was reading your Wikipedia, because every time I go on a podcast, I feel under research.
0:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
0:50 Speaker 02 I was reading your Wikipedia and I go to personal life. It's three sentences. The first one is, he is gay.
0:59 Speaker 03 And period, by the way.
1:00 Speaker 02 I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty important.
1:03 Speaker 03 I see that. I see that for him.
1:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:05 Speaker 03 Oh, my God, that is so funny. What is the first sentence of yours, do you know?
1:09 Speaker 02 I don't know. I don't even know if I have a Wikipedia.
1:11 Speaker 03 No? No, not on there?
1:13 Speaker 02 Damn.
1:13 Speaker 03 Someone needs to put you on there. Yeah, wow. Chance, Chance said, you don't.
1:17 Speaker 02 It's just like that. That's all right. I'll be there.
1:20 Speaker 03 Dude, I'm so excited to have you here.
1:21 Speaker 02 Thank you. I'm excited to be here.
1:23 Speaker 03 You have been, I'm a little worried about my friend.
1:25 Speaker 02 Uh oh.
1:26 Speaker 03 Because you're busy.
1:26 Speaker 02 I am.
1:27 Speaker 03 You've been really busy lately.
1:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:28 Speaker 03 And it's been, I feel like it's a lot. How are you doing?
1:31 Speaker 02 Um.
1:33 Speaker 03 Right. First of all.
1:35 Speaker 02 Someone, yesterday, when I was literally filming yesterday, someone was like, how are you doing spiritually? And I was like, oh, I've been spiritually exhausted for three months now.
1:43 Speaker 03 Oh, I need to check.
1:44 Speaker 02 Yeah, but you know, I'm paying my rent. Yeah. New York.
1:47 Speaker 03 Got a new apartment?
1:48 Speaker 02 I do. I just moved into this new apartment about, it's either, what day is it?
1:55 Speaker 03 What day is it?
1:56 Speaker 02 I think it might be two months now. Is it two months?
1:58 Speaker 03 What's the address and unit number?
2:00 Speaker 02 Oh, sure. So, what is this? This is 20, anyway.
2:04 Speaker 03 Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm so excited for your new apartment. I'm so excited that gaydar is going so well.
2:09 Speaker 02 Thank you. And thank you for doing my show.
2:11 Speaker 03 I was thrilled to be on it.
2:12 Speaker 02 We're so versatile. We're going show for show.
2:14 Speaker 03 Me and you. Let's flip flop.
2:17 Speaker 02 Honestly, Caleb, I would like to see it.
2:18 Speaker 03 Yeah?
2:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, I don't know if we would have good sex, though.
2:21 Speaker 03 Me and you?
2:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:22 Speaker 03 What makes you say that? Because I obviously was hurtful to hear.
2:26 Speaker 02 I don't know if you're, I don't know if I'm ready. Maybe that's, it's.
2:30 Speaker 03 You don't know if you're ready for our sex.
2:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, like, I don't know if I'm able to, um, receive or give you what you might need.
2:36 Speaker 03 You might not be.
2:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:38 Speaker 03 Based on, based on you saying that.
2:40 Speaker 02 It's fine. Well, I'm also going off of your personal life on Wikipedia.
2:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:43 Speaker 02 And you are gay.
2:44 Speaker 03 I'm gay, yeah.
2:45 Speaker 02 So I don't know how much fun you would have with what I got going on.
2:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:48 Speaker 02 I'm Barbie smooth down there.
2:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, nothing going on, just straight up non-binary vibes?
2:52 Speaker 02 Yes, you get it. Okay, good.
2:54 Speaker 03 I get it. I'm around for it.
2:56 Speaker 02 Are you?
2:57 Speaker 03 You know, I've gotten down with many things.
3:00 Speaker 02 That seems like a threat.
3:01 Speaker 03 No, yeah, yeah.
3:02 Speaker 02 Okay.
3:02 Speaker 03 Don't be, don't be so sure.
3:04 Speaker 02 Are we gonna have sex like, okay, no, no, no, no, no.
3:05 Speaker 03 Not on camera, not on this camera. I've, I've, I've been, you name a gender, I've been in there.
3:12 Speaker 03 What are you, what are you after?
3:16 Speaker 02 Can we go back just one second?
3:19 Speaker 03 Go ahead.
3:20 Speaker 02 Name a gender.
3:21 Speaker 03 Name a gender. Name a gender.
3:23 Speaker 02 That's crazy.
3:24 Speaker 03 I'm in there.
3:25 Speaker 02 Is that your gender inclusivity? Is that how it happens?
3:29 Speaker 03 I have, look, when, when the time is right and when it's fun, I've been a little bit of everywhere.
3:33 Speaker 02 Wow.
3:34 Speaker 03 Now, did I have a lot of fun with, when I was in high school, I was, I was exploring straight? Not for me.
3:41 Speaker 02 This is also on the Wikipedia.
3:42 Speaker 03 Straight was not for me.
3:43 Speaker 02 Yeah.
3:43 Speaker 03 Straight was not for me. But I gave it a good faith effort and I feel that so many people don't.
3:47 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
3:48 Speaker 03 You know?
3:48 Speaker 02 I think that's really beautiful. I think the problem with America is a lot of people aren't inclusive with their hearts, but maybe they're inclusive with their penis.
3:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, and I'm, I'm, I'm giving, I'm both. I'm both. I'm community heart.
4:05 Speaker 03 I'm community heart. This heart's been passed around.
4:10 Speaker 03 What are you looking for? Are you single?
4:11 Speaker 02 I'm not. I have a boyfriend. We've been dating for like a year and a half now.
4:14 Speaker 03 How's it going?
4:15 Speaker 02 It's going good, I think.
4:16 Speaker 03 Yeah?
4:17 Speaker 02 I think so. I mean, this is like my, like, really serious adult relationship, my first one, so I'm really excited about it. It is kinda crazy to like, um, you kinda have to let go of a lot of baggage to be in a long-term relationship.
4:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:32 Speaker 02 So it's always like, I'm always working on something, you know what I mean? But it's fun and I love him a lot. I remember when people on Facebook took that very seriously.
4:38 Speaker 03 Oh, my god.
4:39 Speaker 02 You know, like the single, it's complicated, engaged or married thing?
4:42 Speaker 03 That was fun, or poking. You remember when poking meant something?
4:45 Speaker 02 Girl, do I remember poking.
4:45 Speaker 03 Poking. I was poking.
4:47 Speaker 02 I was poking bitches down.
4:48 Speaker 03 I was poking.
4:49 Speaker 02 I was poking bitches down.
4:50 Speaker 03 If you got a poke from me, it meant something.
4:52 Speaker 02 What did it mean?
4:52 Speaker 03 I wouldn't say. It depended. It depended, like, I would put, you know, what's so crazy is I remember in, like, I had me and one other little closeted gay boy in high school. Then we were both closeted gay boys out to each other.
5:03 Speaker 02 Oh, that's sweet.
5:04 Speaker 03 It was sweet.
5:05 Speaker 02 Community, sisterhood.
5:06 Speaker 03 Community, and of course, it started with hooking up.
5:07 Speaker 02 Oh.
5:08 Speaker 03 And, okay, but then we'd be like, we'd be like, oh, my god, one of the straight guys from school poked us on Facebook. Like, what is it, me, like?
5:14 Speaker 02 Oh, I see, I see.
5:15 Speaker 03 Does that mean he's gay, like?
5:17 Speaker 02 And it's so nebulous, you never know.
5:19 Speaker 03 The gymnastics you would do in high school to try to find out if another boy was gay.
5:22 Speaker 02 Right.
5:22 Speaker 03 So intense.
5:24 Speaker 02 Ah, good for you. I wish I came out a little earlier, but I kind of, I'm kind of enjoying this, not late in life, but I definitely had my time to, to sit on it.
5:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:33 Speaker 02 Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 03 What, you grew up in Davenport, Iowa?
5:35 Speaker 02 I did.
5:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:37 Speaker 03 Quad Cities.
5:37 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:38 Speaker 03 Come on.
5:38 Speaker 02 We talked about this a little bit, didn't we?
5:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:40 Speaker 02 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
5:41 Speaker 03 How was it?
5:42 Speaker 02 Um.
5:45 Speaker 03 First of all.
5:46 Speaker 02 I'm happy I'm not there anymore, I'll say that much, but I do, the other day, I got a little homesick, and I don't know what it was. Oh, um, literally yesterday, we were filming, and I saw two tractors go by, and I was like, oh, mm, I could have had it all.
5:58 Speaker 03 You could have had it all.
5:59 Speaker 02 I could have been working, like, mid-level John Deere and sucking dick in a bathroom, you know what I mean?
6:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, you could have had everything.
6:06 Speaker 02 Just to scratch the itch.
6:07 Speaker 03 You in a pair of overalls up on a tractor.
6:10 Speaker 02 Kind of kind.
6:10 Speaker 03 Kind of kind.
6:11 Speaker 02 I think that's my next birthday shoot.
6:12 Speaker 03 It's eating, and it's giving, and I would love to see it.
6:14 Speaker 02 Or I could do, like, the Country Girls make do, just have my ass out in a mini dress.
6:17 Speaker 03 Yes.
6:18 Speaker 02 With a dripping piece of corn in the foreground.
6:20 Speaker 03 Just holding a drill on something it shouldn't be on.
6:22 Speaker 02 Yes.
6:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:24 Speaker 02 I recently did buy a drill for my new apartment.
6:26 Speaker 03 Pink?
6:27 Speaker 02 So I can be Butch.
6:28 Speaker 03 Did you get the pink set?
6:29 Speaker 02 No, I got, like, a, oh, god.
6:32 Speaker 03 Like, a real, like?
6:33 Speaker 02 I don't even know.
6:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:35 Speaker 02 The lesbians said to get it, so I got it.
6:36 Speaker 03 That's what it is.
6:37 Speaker 02 Right.
6:38 Speaker 03 It's you have to take the lesbians' lead on that stuff.
6:40 Speaker 02 Right.
6:40 Speaker 03 Yes. Uh, what's making you happy lately?
6:44 Speaker 02 Hmm.
6:45 Speaker 03 What's making you happy in life?
6:48 Speaker 02 Buy my new apartment, there's a Wendy's, there's a Popeyes, there's a Dunkin' Donuts, there's a Sonic, and a grocery store, literally, as soon as I walk out the door.
7:00 Speaker 03 I could weep.
7:00 Speaker 02 Across the street.
7:01 Speaker 03 I could weep.
7:02 Speaker 02 I haven't eaten anything but fried food in two months.
7:07 Speaker 03 Okay.
7:10 Speaker 03 People also, I think, they don't, I want people to really understand, when, when the way that you're going right now, you've got Gadar, you have all your other stuff, you're in this show right now that we're gonna talk about, you have so much going on, that like, genuinely, being able to grab a fucking chicken sandwich on the way out the door, is like, necessary.
7:26 Speaker 02 It actually has been saving my life.
7:27 Speaker 03 It really does.
7:28 Speaker 02 My, the juxtaposition of what's in my fridge, versus what's in my closet is crazy.
7:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:34 Speaker 02 Like, I'm pulling, like, I have, like, all these, like, outfits and stuff, just in case I gotta go, or I have to do, like, a one-off shoot, or something like that, but in my, in my refrigerator, there's three eggs, um, Polynesian sauce from Chick-fil-A, you know what I mean?
7:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:50 Speaker 02 There's like, there's nothing in there that could actually sustain me, but I do look kind.
7:53 Speaker 03 You do. Looks good all the time.
7:55 Speaker 02 Oh my gosh.
7:56 Speaker 03 Oh, don't worry about that. No, no, no! That's okay. There was urine on the floor. Chance, can we clean up the urine? Yes, sir. Thank you. I'm sorry. Don't be, we like that it adds character to the show. Also, I was just noticing while you were talking, that how well the mic matches your boots and
8:08 Speaker 02 Work!
8:09 Speaker 03 bow and outfit, like, you know, you all, you have a sixth sense for these things. Thanks. Like a true diva does.
8:16 Speaker 02 I can't wait until I'm styled, instead of styling myself, though.
8:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
8:19 Speaker 02 I'm over it.
8:20 Speaker 03 Oh my god, Chance trying to crawl under the cameras. This, they're gonna see this, Chance.
8:25 Speaker 02 It's, my love, just
8:28 Speaker 03 My, haha!
8:33 Speaker 03 Get the tendrils, get the offshoots, get the tributaries. Yup. Great job, Chance, we appreciate you.
8:40 Speaker 02 Ooh!
8:40 Speaker 03 He can't.
8:41 Speaker 02 Ooh, help him, Lord!
8:42 Speaker 03 He can't.
8:43 Speaker 02 I live!
8:44 Speaker 03 We're not cutting any of that.
8:45 Speaker 02 Haha!
8:46 Speaker 03 We're leaving all of that in. Me, are you, are you at one point, just kind of quietly?
8:49 Speaker 02 My love.
8:52 Speaker 02 I wasn't expecting all that, but work.
8:53 Speaker 03 Okay, wait, I want to know this.
8:55 Speaker 02 Okay.
8:56 Speaker 03 Davenport, Iowa.
8:57 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
8:58 Speaker 03 Now you live in New York City.
8:59 Speaker 02 I do.
8:59 Speaker 03 Tell me about the in-between.
9:03 Speaker 02 I will. It's just so interesting, because you're a great interviewer, and I like to think I'm a good interviewer, and...
9:09 Speaker 03 You're a great interviewer.
9:11 Speaker 02 Thank you. It's hard to like, not want to interview you back.
9:13 Speaker 03 I know, you want to turn it back on me, right? I do this as well.
9:16 Speaker 02 Fuck. Davenport, New York, in-between. So after Davenport, well, for college, I went to Emerson College in Boston. I was there for four years.
9:26 Speaker 03 Yep.
9:26 Speaker 02 Then I did a gig in North Carolina for a couple of months, moved back home, almost [BLEEP] myself, and then...
9:33 Speaker 03 Real.
9:33 Speaker 02 I was joking, joking.
9:34 Speaker 03 Okay, okay, okay, okay.
9:35 Speaker 02 Whoa, whoa.
9:38 Speaker 02 And then moved to Chicago. I was a lesbian in Chicago.
9:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
9:41 Speaker 02 And then I moved to New York.
9:42 Speaker 03 I love that.
9:43 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:43 Speaker 03 When you were at Emerson, I know you studied performance, but then you also got a minor in peace and...
9:47 Speaker 02 Yes, peace and social justice.
9:48 Speaker 03 Peace and social justice.
9:49 Speaker 02 I don't have a fucking Wikipedia and you found that out?
9:51 Speaker 03 Baby, you think we're playing around over here?
9:53 Speaker 02 I live! I live for that!
9:54 Speaker 03 We take this very seriously.
9:55 Speaker 02 Work!
9:56 Speaker 03 What does, how did you decide on that? And also, what does that look like? I've never heard of that.
9:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, honestly, I, I was always pretty woke, but you have to remember, I'm from Iowa.
10:05 Speaker 03 Yes.
10:06 Speaker 02 So I think during the 2020 riots with Black Lives Matter really woke me up. I was like, okay, I could be doing something about this. And this is also when I started making content. And when I first started making content, it was just political, like I was just weighing in on like, things like, people should care about and sharing mutual aid funds and all that kind of stuff. So I decided to just go in that direction. My peace and social justice minor really helps with like, knowing what to do in terms of protest, advocacy, and research with like, any kind of political thing, I guess, like...
10:43 Speaker 02 I got the minor because I never wanted to be in a position where I didn't know what to do. And I could help other people figure out what to do as well.
10:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:50 Speaker 02 So that's basically what I wanted out of it.
10:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:53 Speaker 02 And it was too hard for me to do a double major, so I just stuck with the minor.
10:56 Speaker 03 Yeah. So the gig in North Carolina, what was that?
11:00 Speaker 02 We, I was doing Hunchback of Notre Dame and Wedding Singer.
11:03 Speaker 03 Oh, my God. Fun, like Summerstock or something?
11:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, Summerstock.
11:07 Speaker 03 That's so fun.
11:08 Speaker 02 It was so much fun. And then we did Hunchback with an actual deaf actor and he had like a shadow that was singing, singing the songs while he was signing.
11:16 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
11:16 Speaker 02 So kind. That's one of my favorite shows I've ever been in.
11:19 Speaker 03 That fucking rocks.
11:20 Speaker 02 Yeah.
11:20 Speaker 03 So did that and then went back home for a little bit. And then what was, was the plan to go home and, and just like hold yourself over until you could go to New York?
11:27 Speaker 02 Yeah. Well, I thought, I thought I was gonna move to New York one year sooner than I did.
11:41 Speaker 03 That's the rebel.
11:42 Speaker 02 I was gonna move to New York one year sooner than I did. I just didn't have enough money.
11:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
11:45 Speaker 02 Like, it is impossible to move here unless you have X amount in your savings account.
11:51 Speaker 03 Oh, it's dice-ardly.
11:52 Speaker 02 I just didn't. I just didn't. I was like, what do you mean? I need to pay over a thousand dollars for one room every month.
12:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:01 Speaker 02 And I just wasn't there.
12:02 Speaker 03 And the months keep coming.
12:03 Speaker 02 And they keep coming.
12:04 Speaker 03 It never stops.
12:04 Speaker 02 More than one month.
12:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:05 Speaker 02 I was like, oh, God, no.
12:06 Speaker 03 It's the first of the month every week somehow.
12:08 Speaker 02 Right. So I literally went back home for maybe,
12:13 Speaker 02 this is maybe two months.
12:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:15 Speaker 02 Couldn't do it anymore. And then I was like, I know I could afford Chicago, no shade. And I moved to Chicago.
12:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
12:22 Speaker 02 Yeah. Oh, yeah, you moved to Chicago after school, too.
12:25 Speaker 03 After college, yeah. Chicago, Chicago was where Chance and I both moved after college.
12:29 Speaker 02 Nice.
12:30 Speaker 03 To do improv and stuff. Where'd you live?
12:31 Speaker 02 I lived in Logan Square.
12:33 Speaker 03 Nice.
12:33 Speaker 02 I loved Logan Square.
12:34 Speaker 03 I was in Lakeview.
12:35 Speaker 02 Oh, gay.
12:36 Speaker 03 Gay. And a lot of the theaters were close to there, so it was like easy.
12:39 Speaker 02 Oh, sure.
12:40 Speaker 03 Like, the improv theaters were over there and stuff.
12:41 Speaker 02 I always wish I was closer to Boys Town because every time I had a drag gig, it was like a 30-minute drive.
12:46 Speaker 03 Exactly correct.
12:46 Speaker 02 Yeah.
12:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, but Logan's my cooler.
12:48 Speaker 02 I loved Logan Square. I miss it all the time. I miss Chicago all the time.
12:52 Speaker 03 The Chicago queer scene is so fun.
12:54 Speaker 02 It's so, and it's just like, I feel like they get it in a way that
13:00 Speaker 02 New York definitely has gotten. It's just like not as, um...
13:06 Speaker 02 The word coming to my mind is violent. It's like not as, I don't know, there's like not as much contention with other queer people in Chicago. It's just like, we're rooting for each other more.
13:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:17 Speaker 02 I figure. And I'm so happy. I started actually performing in drag in Chicago.
13:22 Speaker 03 Wow.
13:22 Speaker 02 Yeah. I felt so liberated to do so. It was crazy.
13:26 Speaker 03 Do you remember your first ever drag show?
13:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was Roscoe's. They have an open stage night every Tuesday.
13:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:35 Speaker 02 And that's when I did, I did Warning by Fantasia for no reason.
13:38 Speaker 03 Let's go!
13:39 Speaker 02 I don't know why.
13:40 Speaker 03 Let's go!
13:41 Speaker 02 I always thought my first drag song would be Only Girl in the World by Rihanna.
13:47 Speaker 03 Yes, of course.
13:48 Speaker 02 But then I was like, well, what if I didn't do that? For whatever the fuck reason was.
13:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
13:53 Speaker 02 And I don't know. It was probably the worst I've ever done in drag, but I, honestly, some of the most fun. So you have to, you just have to start.
14:00 Speaker 03 Yeah, I've had the pleasure, because of being in Chicago, of watching so many drag queens.
14:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
14:04 Speaker 03 Uh, get good at it.
14:05 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
14:06 Speaker 03 Like, they, your friend starts, and the wig is horrible, and the fit is bad, and the song is like, but then they get, they, they learn their makeup and their style, and I've gotten to watch so many queens figure out their thing.
14:15 Speaker 02 Yes!
14:16 Speaker 03 It's like watching someone get good at stand-up. It's so beautiful.
14:18 Speaker 02 Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:19 Speaker 03 It's so fun. So you're in Chicago, and how long you in Chicago?
14:24 Speaker 02 I was in Chicago just for a year.
14:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, and then what took you to New York?
14:28 Speaker 02 I finally saved up enough money. This was when I was doing pretty well on social media too. So I was like, I was making enough money to move to New York, and then I moved in with my best friend Cedric. We went to school together. We went to college together.
14:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:39 Speaker 02 And I moved to Flatbush.
14:41 Speaker 03 Of course, as we all do.
14:43 Speaker 02 As we all do.
14:44 Speaker 03 What, um, you and I are from very similar places, like, small town Iowa, small town Missouri. I moved to Chicago, you moved to, originally to Boston.
14:53 Speaker 02 Right.
14:54 Speaker 03 What was like the, oh, go ahead, baby.
14:56 Speaker 02 When you came on my show, one of the comments were like, Midwest princes! And I was like, oh, not that!
15:02 Speaker 03 No, boop!
15:03 Speaker 02 And I literally, like, 30 seconds later, I went to go see it again, and it was deleted. I was like, what? Yes!
15:10 Speaker 03 New comment, Midwest royalty!
15:14 Speaker 02 I was like, I live, I live.
15:16 Speaker 03 Oh, that's so funny.
15:17 Speaker 02 It was everything.
15:18 Speaker 03 What was the, uh, what was the biggest, like, how was that transition for you, moving from small town Iowa to Boston?
15:25 Speaker 02 There was a culture shock for sure. And I was still straight at the time. I was still a straight man at the time.
15:29 Speaker 03 Thank you for your service.
15:30 Speaker 02 No, thank you. I know you get it too.
15:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:33 Speaker 02 Um, it was just a lot. Like, I was...
15:39 Speaker 02 I was constantly, like, surrounded by queer people in a way that I have never in my life before.
15:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:45 Speaker 02 Like, I think there was some kind of pull at my school and more than 50% of... I don't know what the percentage is, but we were gay.
15:54 Speaker 03 50%, yeah, I can...
15:55 Speaker 02 Everybody was gay.
15:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:57 Speaker 02 And I was like, this is crazy. I didn't even know this, and I just picked the school.
16:01 Speaker 03 You're like, this is so crazy, because I'm straight. How did I end up here?
16:03 Speaker 02 I was like, no!
16:06 Speaker 02 This can't be right!
16:08 Speaker 03 But I guess if I have to.
16:10 Speaker 02 Then I think of home.
16:12 Speaker 03 Come on, yeah!
16:16 Speaker 02 So I was like, this isn't gonna last long. And I literally started hooking up with guys maybe the next year, like, the next, beginning of sophomore year. I was still in the closet. I didn't come out until the pandemic.
16:26 Speaker 03 Of course.
16:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:27 Speaker 03 That was how it was supposed to be.
16:27 Speaker 02 And then it was the pronoun pipeline from there.
16:29 Speaker 03 I know. The pronouns start coming and they don't stop coming.
16:32 Speaker 02 And they don't stop coming!
16:33 Speaker 03 One thing about the pronouns, once they come, they don't stop coming. I've seen it. I've seen it a million times.
16:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, you've been in them.
16:40 Speaker 03 I've seen the pronouns. I've been in there. I've been up close for the pronoun journey.
16:47 Speaker 02 That's crazy.
16:48 Speaker 03 That's crazy.
16:49 Speaker 02 Okay.
16:49 Speaker 03 So then, okay, you moved to New York. What is the show you're in right now? Tell us about the show.
16:53 Speaker 02 Oh, I'm in an Off-Broadway production called Saturday Church.
16:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:57 Speaker 02 It's an adaptation from a movie from 2017.
17:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:01 Speaker 03 You're singing in this show.
17:02 Speaker 02 Oh, we're singing down in the show.
17:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:04 Speaker 02 I'm having the time of my life. It's awesome.
17:07 Speaker 03 Why should, uh, why should people come and see it? What's the, what's the draw? What's the thing?
17:11 Speaker 02 And bear with me.
17:12 Speaker 03 Stay with me?
17:14 Speaker 02 Gay kid, gay black kid, like, "Ooh, I sing pretty. Let me sing in the choir." The aunt's like, "No, you're gay and you're in church. You can't be gay in church." He's like, "But I wanna," and the mom's like, "Too busy because the gay kid's dad just died." Oh, my God. I'm bastardizing this real bad. The gay kid's dad just died and the mom's like, "Oh, I'm gonna cope with working all the time." So then the gay kid's like, "What? I have no community." So then he goes to a place called Saturday Church. Gay kids, trans people.
17:52 Speaker 03 Going with trans people on the second go around.
17:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
17:54 Speaker 03 Cleaning that up a little bit.
17:58 Speaker 02 And they're like, "Hey, come. You can be gay here."
18:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:02 Speaker 02 And then he gets in a fight with his boyfriend. The aunt finds out he has a boyfriend. The pastor's like, "Don't be gay." He runs away. He comes back and then there's a ball.
18:16 Speaker 03 They, they need to, the social media for your show needs to clip just that minute. Gay kid doesn't wanna, churches can't be gay at church, but sings at the other place. Just clipping that down and putting it out is...
18:31 Speaker 02 Honestly, I think that's pretty good. I think I've got all the, I didn't spoil, I guess I did.
18:36 Speaker 03 No, you nailed it.
18:38 Speaker 02 I got all the good stuff. I got all the good stuff. I think people should just come see it because it's like, it's actually really important for where we are politically right now in our country. I, I think it shows the queer black experience in a way that hasn't been done before. Like, these things are, like, the things he's going through are very real. Like, they're not like, absorbently... Traumatic, you know what I mean? Like, there is, like, some things he goes through that are traumatic. But at the end of the day, it's like, through his community and through, like, dealing with grief and acceptance and love and all that stuff, he figures out who he is and who he can be. And his family supports him at the end of it.
19:23 Speaker 02 It's a very, it's a, it's a feel-good, which I really, really like.
19:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, a happy ending.
19:28 Speaker 02 Happy ending, yeah.
19:29 Speaker 03 We don't get those very often.
19:30 Speaker 02 Nope, nope, nope, nope.
19:32 Speaker 03 It's nice to see them on stage and screen.
19:34 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
19:34 Speaker 03 It's rare.
19:36 Speaker 02 I want to ask you so many questions.
19:38 Speaker 03 You can ask me a question.
19:39 Speaker 02 How, do, do the people know you're in Devil Wears Prada?
19:42 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, this is, this is, yeah, this is out.
19:44 Speaker 02 Okay, how's it going?
19:46 Speaker 03 It's great, I'm finished.
19:47 Speaker 02 Oh, my God, are you really?
19:47 Speaker 03 I wrapped, yeah.
19:48 Speaker 02 Wow.
19:49 Speaker 03 I wrapped.
19:49 Speaker 02 How long was your shooting schedule?
19:52 Speaker 03 I was maybe on it for, I think I was, I think I was booked for 23 days and I ended up working for like, I don't know, 16 or 17.
20:02 Speaker 02 Okay.
20:02 Speaker 03 Scheduling-wise, it worked out that way.
20:04 Speaker 02 Nice.
20:04 Speaker 03 Um, yeah, it was great, it was so much fun.
20:07 Speaker 02 That's amazing.
20:08 Speaker 03 It's funny, by the time this comes out, I will have already done it, but I'm doing Seth Meyers this week.
20:12 Speaker 02 Okay.
20:12 Speaker 03 And I'm sure they'll want to talk about that. And I'm like, I'm like, wondering what I'll say because it was just so lovely. Like, it's like, there's, there's really nothing that interesting in being like, "Oh, it was a dream come true, everything I expected, everyone was the nicest I've ever worked with."
20:26 Speaker 02 Was there a rosebud thorn of it?
20:28 Speaker 03 Um, I mean, the whole thing was just genuinely lovely. There really wasn't a downside. It was like, we were shooting on a soundstage.
20:35 Speaker 02 That's awesome.
20:35 Speaker 03 So, weather wasn't an issue. We didn't, like, you know when you're on location, you have your trailer on the fucking side of the road or whatever? We're in like, a gorgeous soundstage, like, studio building with like, green rooms.
20:44 Speaker 02 Here, right?
20:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, here, in, yeah, in New York.
20:46 Speaker 02 Nice.
20:46 Speaker 03 And, um, yeah, it was just like, a beautiful, fun experience.
20:50 Speaker 02 That's amazing, good for you.
20:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, really, really fun.
20:52 Speaker 02 I'm so excited to see it.
20:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, I can't wait for it to come out, I'm very excited. And my, yeah, my character in it is great. And I hope I, I hope that all the scenes I shot get into the final film, that'd be great for me.
21:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:03 Speaker 03 But you know they don't have to, so.
21:04 Speaker 02 Exactly.
21:05 Speaker 03 Um, yeah, we'll just see, but I loved it.
21:07 Speaker 02 That's amazing.
21:08 Speaker 03 It was so fun.
21:09 Speaker 02 What?
21:11 Speaker 02 How many movies is this now?
21:14 Speaker 03 This year?
21:15 Speaker 02 Fourth total?
21:16 Speaker 03 Uh, total, I guess I, this year I filmed three, about to film a fourth.
21:22 Speaker 02 Wow.
21:22 Speaker 03 Total, how many movies have I been in? I used to be funny, I used to be funny Jurassic World. Is that it on movies? Sweetheart's the biggest one and my, yeah, sweetheart's duh. Um, so yeah, I guess like six or seven total.
21:37 Speaker 02 Okay, work.
21:38 Speaker 03 It's going now.
21:39 Speaker 02 Good for you.
21:40 Speaker 03 It's going now.
21:40 Speaker 02 That's awesome.
21:41 Speaker 03 There were many years where it was not going.
21:44 Speaker 02 Amen, amen.
21:45 Speaker 03 You're just begging, you're trying to make the case all the time and it's like, I mean, the particular thing for me is like when they wanted somebody fat, they wanted like a, an old gruff, like masculine construction worker guy. And then when they wanted somebody gay, they wanted like a thin, white twink.
21:58 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
21:59 Speaker 03 And so it's just like, I never feel, I never felt when I was starting out, like anything made any sense for me ever. And so just like, I mean, we all have our versions of this, right? But of like, trying to convince someone that I have a place in this.
22:11 Speaker 02 Absolutely.
22:11 Speaker 03 And then it starts going and you're like, ooh. They figured it out.
22:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
22:15 Speaker 03 They figured it out.
22:16 Speaker 02 I'm in that phase right now, I feel like, where I'm like so close. Like I can feel like I could break through at any moment.
22:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:23 Speaker 02 And I'm going to.
22:24 Speaker 03 And you are going to. Well, somebody, somebody asked you recently where you want to be in five years and you said happy, rich and a Tony winner, right?
22:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
22:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, is that the goal still?
22:32 Speaker 02 I think so. I always had this, um, this thought that I'd have an EGOT by 30. So, um, I'm making good progress.
22:40 Speaker 03 How old are you?
22:41 Speaker 02 I'm 25.
22:42 Speaker 03 You got time.
22:42 Speaker 02 I got time!
22:43 Speaker 03 Five years to get those.
22:44 Speaker 02 One year and one for buffer. I think that's pretty good.
22:47 Speaker 03 Yeah, one year off.
22:48 Speaker 02 Right.
22:49 Speaker 03 One year off in there.
22:50 Speaker 02 Right, I can go to Puerto Vallarta and just chill out for a year after I get my Oscar.
22:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, chilling out in PV, that's for sure.
22:57 Speaker 02 That's where I'm at.
22:58 Speaker 03 That's where all the Midwestern gay guys go to Vegas, snowbird. All the older gay guys in Missouri are snowboarding in PV.
23:04 Speaker 02 I changed my mind, I want to go to Cherry Grove.
23:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, there we go, make it happen.
23:06 Speaker 02 I want to be free.
23:08 Speaker 03 What's, where, what's like your dream, like bucket list, like travel destination that you haven't been?
23:12 Speaker 02 Oh my God, good question. I think I have a list. My phone's over there. Um, that's on the top of my head, I know I want to go to Tokyo really bad. Um, I've been to Paris, I've been to London, um, I want to go to...
23:31 Speaker 02 Oh, Venice. I want to figure out what's going on with those aqueducts.
23:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:37 Speaker 02 Is that what it's called? Canals?
23:39 Speaker 03 Canals, right?
23:40 Speaker 02 Are they canals?
23:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:41 Speaker 02 That, I want to know why the buildings are in water.
23:45 Speaker 03 Yeah. And why are they, frankly?
23:47 Speaker 02 I don't.
23:47 Speaker 03 Amsterdam, same deal.
23:48 Speaker 02 I feel like I just need to, I need to dip my toe in that water.
23:52 Speaker 03 Yeah. I think it's because of how they used to transport stuff.
23:55 Speaker 02 Sure.
23:56 Speaker 03 They're so old.
23:56 Speaker 02 But like, what's the foundation of the buildings?
23:59 Speaker 03 What's under the buildings?
24:00 Speaker 02 Right.
24:00 Speaker 03 Yeah. That scares me to think about.
24:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:04 Speaker 03 Well, you said, all those, like, buildings, all those houses that were built on stilts on the beach in North Carolina now?
24:09 Speaker 02 Yes.
24:09 Speaker 03 Are, like, getting taken out to sea? That's kind of interesting.
24:13 Speaker 02 That's what it feels like to me. Like, that feels like the next step.
24:15 Speaker 03 Yeah, is that they just go out there.
24:17 Speaker 02 Venetians, way in.
24:19 Speaker 03 Venetians, let us know what your buildings are on.
24:20 Speaker 02 Are they called Venetians?
24:21 Speaker 03 Venet-
24:22 Speaker 02 People from Venice?
24:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, right?
24:23 Speaker 04 And I've, I've got it here.
24:25 Speaker 02 Oh.
24:25 Speaker 04 Firstly, the city's lagoons provided a natural defensive barrier against invaders.
24:31 Speaker 03 Lagoon.
24:32 Speaker 04 Like, the Middle Ages.
24:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, but what are the buildings on, Chance?
24:36 Speaker 04 What are they on? They're on, it's on a lagoon, and they're through canals, and they're on stilts.
24:41 Speaker 03 They're on stilts?
24:42 Speaker 02 Are you kidding me?
24:43 Speaker 03 Wow.
24:44 Speaker 02 That's crazy.
24:45 Speaker 03 I don't understand architecture one bit.
24:47 Speaker 02 It just feels like, it's a lot of faith in a couple of sticks.
24:52 Speaker 03 Especially old timey, like, back then. Like, can you imagine when they built, like, the San Frans, like, the Golden Gate Bridge?
24:57 Speaker 02 Oh, my god.
24:58 Speaker 03 How trusting you had to be to just be like-
24:59 Speaker 02 I'm terrified of bridges.
25:00 Speaker 03 For sure.
25:01 Speaker 02 Do you have any phobias?
25:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, but they're all politically incorrect.
25:07 Speaker 02 Trance!
25:09 Speaker 03 Yeah, there's that, and then, um, heights can get to me.
25:13 Speaker 02 Okay.
25:14 Speaker 03 Heights can get to me, not always, but I can get scared of a height.
25:17 Speaker 02 Is it that you're, you're scared you're gonna fall, like, you're, what is it about the height?
25:22 Speaker 03 I like to have control.
25:23 Speaker 02 Sure.
25:24 Speaker 03 In general.
25:25 Speaker 02 I'm with you on that.
25:26 Speaker 03 And I don't have control when I'm up high.
25:28 Speaker 02 Right.
25:28 Speaker 03 Because the height has the control.
25:30 Speaker 02 Well, you obviously have control in that moment because you're still here.
25:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, that's a nice way to look at it. It just doesn't feel that way. I feel powerless when I'm high, you know?
25:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:40 Speaker 03 When I'm up there. Yeah, well, but anyway, what are your phobias? You have any?
25:44 Speaker 02 Snakes.
25:45 Speaker 03 Wow.
25:46 Speaker 02 Um, tripod phobia, like the little clusters of small holes.
25:49 Speaker 03 I have some friends with that, yeah.
25:50 Speaker 02 Oh!
25:51 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, I don't like thinking about that.
25:52 Speaker 02 And, um, I just said it. I forgot.
25:56 Speaker 03 Snakes, shapophobia.
25:58 Speaker 02 Bridges. Bridges, of course.
26:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm scared of bridges.
26:00 Speaker 03 My mom has a, uh, I don't, maybe she got over it. She had a fear of bridges at one point. I haven't checked in recently.
26:08 Speaker 03 I don't want to speak ill of her if she's cool with bridges now.
26:11 Speaker 02 Right. There's, she's allowed to grow.
26:13 Speaker 03 Can you go over bridges? Like, what is your?
26:14 Speaker 02 Yeah, absolutely. I have to. I mean, I grew up off of the, um, the Arsenal Bridge in Davenport, so I had to. But it's just like, sometimes, maybe it's because I'm catastrophizing maybe 80% of the time. It's just like, there's no way you can save yourself if a bridge were to collapse and you're on it.
26:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:35 Speaker 02 You know?
26:36 Speaker 03 It's over.
26:36 Speaker 02 Like, those kind of things where you can't find a way out kind of stresses me out a lot.
26:41 Speaker 03 It's big over. If you're in the middle of a bridge and it goes down, that's the end for you.
26:45 Speaker 02 Like, you can't jump to the other side.
26:48 Speaker 03 There's nothing.
26:49 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, and also things are clanging around. It's like too, it's too scary.
26:52 Speaker 02 Oh, my god.
26:53 Speaker 03 But it would never, yeah, it's not, no, it's just not our story. Not our truth, yeah. Not our story.
26:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:58 Speaker 03 Okay, now I know what you have phobias of.
27:01 Speaker 02 Right. And if you look under your chair, you'll find six snakes!
27:06 Speaker 03 There are trans snakes in the studio.
27:07 Speaker 02 Yes, there are transsexual snakes! Well.
27:10 Speaker 03 That'd be con.
27:11 Speaker 02 That's just Brooklyn.
27:14 Speaker 03 Bushwick, you've been called out.
27:17 Speaker 00 Let's be honest, you don't go to the holiday gift exchange just to participate. You go to win. This year, cause a stir. Gift a KitchenAid stand mixer to whip up new traditions. Tis your season to mix it up.
27:32 Speaker 03 I'm gonna ask you this question.
27:33 Speaker 02 Okay.
27:33 Speaker 03 And I want you to be so honest with me. If you, for the rest of your life, could only hear two albums. And I mean, I don't mean-
27:40 Speaker 02 I love this.
27:41 Speaker 03 I'm talking like when you're in the grocery store, when you're in an Uber, when you're watching a movie. The only music you hear for the rest of your life has to come from two albums, cannot be a greatest hits album. What two albums are you picking?
27:53 Speaker 02 What do you mean by greatest hits?
27:54 Speaker 03 It can't be a greatest hits album.
27:55 Speaker 02 It like can't be like one of the-
27:56 Speaker 03 You can't do like a compilation.
27:57 Speaker 02 Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
27:58 Speaker 03 It has to be two albums that are like technical albums.
28:02 Speaker 03 Mine usually, just to get you started. I'll usually say Miss Education of Lauryn Hill.
28:08 Speaker 02 Oh, Taste.
28:09 Speaker 03 And Fly by the Chicks.
28:11 Speaker 02 Oh, work!
28:12 Speaker 03 Two incredible albums.
28:13 Speaker 02 Oh my god, okay, I think I'm gonna have to go...
28:19 Speaker 02 I think I'm gonna have to go, and I'm thinking like, for the rest of my life.
28:26 Speaker 02 I'm gonna say Brand New Eyes Paramore.
28:29 Speaker 03 Wow.
28:29 Speaker 02 And...
28:33 Speaker 02 I'm torn between B-Day and Cowboy Carter. Wait, rest of my life.
28:38 Speaker 02 B-Day, Cowboy, I'm gonna say Cowboy Carter.
28:40 Speaker 03 Really? I was gonna go B-Day.
28:43 Speaker 02 I love, B-Day's my favorite album, but I think, like, where I'm at as a 25-year-old, like Cowboy Carter really made a lot of sense to me. Like, I felt connected to that story.
28:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:54 Speaker 02 So I'm thinking about for the rest of my life, I think it's only gonna age, I think Cowboy Carter's gonna age much better than B-Day did.
29:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:01 Speaker 02 In 50 years. You know what I mean?
29:03 Speaker 03 Tell me about Paramore. What's your connection to Paramore?
29:06 Speaker 02 Well, first of all, every black person you know likes Paramore.
29:08 Speaker 03 I know that, I know that.
29:09 Speaker 02 Whether they know it or not.
29:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:11 Speaker 02 My sister was the one who got me into it, really, cuz she used to listen to it a lot growing up. And my sisters and I were 10 years apart. I have a half-sister who's, I think, 5 years older than me, and I have a younger brother who's 3 years younger than me. But my middle sister, she's 10 years older. She left the house when I was like, what, nine for college or something like that?
29:34 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
29:34 Speaker 02 But she left all of her, like, her CDs and stuff. So I was listening to, like, Wicked, Paramore. I was reading the Twilight books, like, all of these things at the fresh age of nine.
29:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:46 Speaker 02 So I remember listening to the Paramore stuff and I was like, this is loud.
29:50 Speaker 03 First of all.
29:51 Speaker 02 Whatever the fuck this is, whatever. And I put it down for literally 10 years. And as soon as I got to college, I was like, I know this band. And I know they're good, and I know Ain't It Fun and Still Into You, but what else do they got?
30:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:04 Speaker 02 Blew my mind. Absolutely blew my mind.
30:06 Speaker 03 So, yes, so, black people love Paramore.
30:10 Speaker 02 Black people love Paramore.
30:11 Speaker 03 This is a constant in my life.
30:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:12 Speaker 03 All my black friends love Paramore.
30:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:14 Speaker 03 And I love Paramore.
30:15 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
30:15 Speaker 03 Do you, what is that? Is it because Hayley Williams, like, came up in the church as an incredible vocalist? Or, like, what is the connection?
30:22 Speaker 02 Well, I've been theorizing what this might mean. I think it's kind of why black people love anime, too. It's like, there's a certain level of...
30:34 Speaker 02 I'm so gassy.
30:35 Speaker 03 It's the Red Bull.
30:36 Speaker 02 It's the Red Bull.
30:37 Speaker 03 It's the Red Bull.
30:38 Speaker 02 There's a certain level of, like, catharsis in the music, I guess. It feels good to have that kind of, like, a mixture of the BPM, the vocals, the message. All that comes together and it makes, like, a really powerful message, at least for me.
30:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:54 Speaker 02 Because I'm not the, I'm not every black person you know.
30:56 Speaker 03 Okay.
30:57 Speaker 02 Believe it or not.
30:58 Speaker 03 I hadn't thought about that.
30:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, believe it or not.
31:00 Speaker 03 Yeah, that makes sense.
31:00 Speaker 02 Um, and I say it's the same as anime because when I watch, like, especially like a shounen, like, action anime, it's kind of the same thing. It's like, the message, the tone, the animation, the characters all come together for something that's cathartic.
31:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:13 Speaker 02 In a way. I think that's my, I think that might be why, I don't know.
31:18 Speaker 03 You kind of just really made me want to watch anime because I'm not an anime person.
31:21 Speaker 02 Are you not?
31:22 Speaker 03 I've never really watched anime.
31:23 Speaker 02 Have you ever watched an anime? Can you, like, think of one that you might have?
31:26 Speaker 03 What's a really popular anime?
31:28 Speaker 02 Uh, my favorite one's Naruto, and it's probably the most popular.
31:30 Speaker 03 Never seen it.
31:31 Speaker 02 Okay. That's crazy.
31:32 Speaker 03 I've seen Dragon Ball Z a little, right?
31:34 Speaker 02 Oh, sure, is that, that's anime?
31:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:36 Speaker 02 And Pokemon, maybe?
31:37 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, okay, I've seen, I've seen these when I was a kid.
31:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:40 Speaker 03 But those aren't the, I feel like, when I think of anime, what are, like, I feel like that's not what I think of as anime. Why do I think that? I'm just wrong?
31:47 Speaker 02 I think maybe because it was... I guess it was given to like, western kids as like, a children's show.
31:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, I thought maybe there was like more, I thought there was maybe like deeper anime that people were into as adults. When people say they're into anime, are they watching Dragon Ball Z? Is that what they mean?
32:00 Speaker 02 They can, yeah.
32:01 Speaker 03 Okay, cool.
32:02 Speaker 02 It's like, for, like, some of my favorite anime are, uh, Number Six, Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. I would say, um, Given, Erased, Death Parade. Like, all of these are like, they have really adult themes in most of these, um, anime.
32:22 Speaker 03 Is Sailor Moon an anime?
32:23 Speaker 02 It is.
32:24 Speaker 03 I know about Sailor Moon because so many queer people dress as that.
32:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, she's pretty iconic too.
32:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
32:28 Speaker 02 And I think there's a gay girl in the show. There's a gay girl. Ulta, Ulta...
32:34 Speaker 03 Some, uh, we're gonna dub that over in the edit. You just sang it perfectly with this look.
32:42 Speaker 02 It's not AI, it's just good editing.
32:44 Speaker 03 It's a dub. Anime, okay, maybe I need to tap into anime.
32:47 Speaker 02 I think you should.
32:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
32:48 Speaker 02 I think you should. I mean, if you ever, I have a Google Doc of anime recommendations.
32:52 Speaker 03 Legitimately, please send my way.
32:53 Speaker 02 Will do.
32:54 Speaker 03 What are your favorite musicals of all time?
32:57 Speaker 02 Good question.
33:00 Speaker 02 Oh, Caleb!
33:02 Speaker 01 I knew you'd be excited about that.
33:02 Speaker 02 Oh! I feel like Jill Scott in Why Did I Get Married, and she goes, "Oh!"
33:08 Speaker 03 God, that movie is horrible for her.
33:10 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah. It's been, I would hate to be mean to hell like that.
33:15 Speaker 02 My favorite musicals, Next to Normal, The Color Purple, Safe.
33:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:22 Speaker 02 I like this musical called Title of Show. There's a pretty racially, um, questionable moment in it, but I think we can get past that.
33:33 Speaker 03 Okay.
33:36 Speaker 03 Seems like it's probably not up to me to decide, so I'll take your word for it.
33:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, it's just a matter of perspective.
33:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, okay.
33:42 Speaker 02 Sure.
33:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:46 Speaker 02 I really like falsettos. And then like, you know, like the easy ones like Wicked, Rent, Chicago.
33:52 Speaker 03 Is falsettos the name of a show?
33:53 Speaker 02 Yeah.
33:54 Speaker 03 Okay. I didn't know if you meant like the concept of falsettos.
33:57 Speaker 02 Sure.
33:58 Speaker 03 Or there's a show called falsettos.
33:59 Speaker 02 No, it's a show called falsettos.
34:00 Speaker 03 I didn't know that.
34:01 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
34:01 Speaker 03 I'm so sorry. I love to learn.
34:05 Speaker 02 I'm impressed.
34:06 Speaker 03 I would see falsettos.
34:07 Speaker 02 Do you want to go see falsettos?
34:08 Speaker 03 Is it on right now?
34:09 Speaker 02 No, it's not.
34:10 Speaker 03 Oh, I was like, I was like, yes, I'll go with you.
34:11 Speaker 02 Do you have favorite musicals?
34:12 Speaker 03 Do what?
34:13 Speaker 02 Are you a musical person? Do you have favorite musicals?
34:14 Speaker 03 No.
34:15 Speaker 02 Okay.
34:16 Speaker 03 Well, um, what's ones do I like?
34:17 Speaker 02 Okay.
34:18 Speaker 03 Chance, you know what ones I like? Uh, Legally Blonde?
34:21 Speaker 02 Ah, love Legally Blonde.
34:23 Speaker 03 I guess I liked that. I don't, I don't like when people, when the emotion gets really big and all they can do is sing.
34:32 Speaker 02 That kind of bothers me. So should I fucking myself or?
34:36 Speaker 03 I like seeing my friends.
34:37 Speaker 02 I want you to know that's my job.
34:38 Speaker 03 I like seeing my friends in anything. I want to come see you show. I went to all Chance's, um.
34:42 Speaker 02 I don't really like when people make jokes on a microphone.
34:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
34:45 Speaker 02 Is that? Is that anything?
34:47 Speaker 03 That was tough to hear. That was really tough to hear. That was really tough to hear.
34:51 Speaker 02 Well, what do you think? Okay, it's all right. It's okay.
34:54 Speaker 03 Caleb came to see me in Runaways.
34:56 Speaker 02 Okay.
34:57 Speaker 03 I did. I saw, I see, I saw all Chance's shows in college and they were, you know.
35:02 Speaker 02 Did you like it?
35:03 Speaker 03 I love supporting my friends.
35:05 Speaker 02 Oh, God.
35:05 Speaker 03 It means the world to me to support my friends.
35:07 Speaker 02 Caleb.
35:07 Speaker 03 Musicals are just hard because also the theater is hard in general for me. I love the theater. I have so much respect for the theater. They need to do something about the chairs.
35:15 Speaker 02 Oh, absolutely.
35:16 Speaker 03 Sorry.
35:16 Speaker 02 I'm with you a hundred percent on that.
35:18 Speaker 03 I'm tall, I'm fat, and I can't be living like this.
35:20 Speaker 02 It feels like this, it, it's akin to like being in a plane. Like, it's the worst feeling ever.
35:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it's a night out.
35:25 Speaker 02 Yeah.
35:26 Speaker 03 When you go to on a plane, you're like, I have to do this to get somewhere.
35:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
35:29 Speaker 03 Going to the theater and being uncomfortable for two and a half hours is like, I'm, this was the activity.
35:34 Speaker 02 If I don't get an aisle seat, I literally cannot sit in the chair.
35:37 Speaker 03 It would be like if your friend was like, I'm a flight attendant. Would you come sit middle row economy for a couple of hours and watch me do my thing? It's like, well, yeah, if you really want me to, but I'm going to have a bad time.
35:46 Speaker 02 I don't know if I would.
35:47 Speaker 03 It's hard.
35:48 Speaker 02 I don't know what I would, I don't know if I would.
35:50 Speaker 03 It's hard, dude.
35:50 Speaker 02 I've been in an era of saying no, and I love it.
35:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:53 Speaker 02 I love saying no.
35:54 Speaker 03 You're in your no era?
35:55 Speaker 02 I love it.
35:55 Speaker 03 Your no-er?
35:56 Speaker 02 I love it.
35:57 Speaker 03 Whoa.
35:57 Speaker 02 Well, my thing is like, if I genuinely know I can do. Good by you or for you, I will do it.
36:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:04 Speaker 02 But if it's like, I have to extend myself in a way that I don't want to in this moment, I'm gonna say no.
36:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:10 Speaker 02 I'm gonna say no.
36:11 Speaker 03 No's powerful.
36:12 Speaker 02 Love it.
36:12 Speaker 03 I've been on no-
36:13 Speaker 00 Let's be honest, you don't go to the family holiday gift exchange just to participate. You go to win. This year, get a gift that'll cause a stir. A KitchenAid stand mixer. It's not just an appliance, it's a present to help them with the making. Year after year, recipe after recipe, you're enabling the family to whip up new traditions. 'Tis your season to mix it up. Gift a KitchenAid stand mixer this year and make more than meals.
36:41 Speaker 03 For years.
36:42 Speaker 02 Good for you.
36:42 Speaker 03 I've been living in no for a long time.
36:44 Speaker 02 It's crazy because it feels like, like mid twenties right now. It's like, how have I not been doing this my entire life?
36:50 Speaker 03 You're so young.
36:51 Speaker 02 I don't feel that, but yeah.
36:53 Speaker 03 You're so young.
36:53 Speaker 02 I don't feel that at all.
36:54 Speaker 03 I feel that I've been here many, many years.
36:56 Speaker 02 But, you know, being queer, it's like, once you turn 26, you're kinda dead.
37:01 Speaker 03 I'm 30.
37:02 Speaker 02 Damn.
37:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, you're saying that to a 30-year-old.
37:05 Speaker 02 And isn't your birthday in January?
37:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, so it'll be 31. So you think I've been dead for four years?
37:12 Speaker 02 What kind of flowers would he might want?
37:14 Speaker 03 Tulips.
37:15 Speaker 02 Tulips. Um- Outdoor dash some tulips.
37:18 Speaker 03 You know what, I have good news for you.
37:19 Speaker 02 What?
37:19 Speaker 03 It only gets better.
37:21 Speaker 02 Okay, I'm excited.
37:22 Speaker 03 When you get to my age-
37:23 Speaker 02 I am excited.
37:23 Speaker 03 You're gonna see things all kinds of different ways.
37:25 Speaker 02 And the crazy thing about healing, the crazy thing about getting, not getting rid of, but coping with trauma is like, now I feel like I will be 30 one day. You know, which is good. I love that feeling.
37:35 Speaker 03 This was a big part of my problem as well. I never saw myself, I was, when I, all my whole life up to like 17, I was like, I don't see myself being 18.
37:43 Speaker 02 Yep.
37:43 Speaker 03 I think I'm going to die.
37:44 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
37:45 Speaker 03 And then when I turned 18, genuinely, every year after that, I've been like, oh, this is a miracle.
37:50 Speaker 02 Color me gagged when I found out that was just a trauma response.
37:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:52 Speaker 02 I was like, whoa!
37:56 Speaker 03 Not me being alive still.
37:58 Speaker 02 It's serious like that? Like, come on, I was just having a little fun.
38:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, no. Um, yeah, I should be therapized, but yes.
38:05 Speaker 03 I'm so glad that you're here.
38:06 Speaker 02 Thank you, I'm glad that you're here too.
38:08 Speaker 03 Just so you know.
38:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
38:09 Speaker 03 Are you in therapy?
38:10 Speaker 02 I, kind, not anymore.
38:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:13 Speaker 02 I got to a point where I didn't, this sounds bad, but I didn't need it anymore.
38:17 Speaker 03 It doesn't sound bad. You fix certain problems, yeah.
38:18 Speaker 02 Right. I might go in soon for like maintenance, just to get like better coping skills with like certain work things, but no, I was in therapy-
38:29 Speaker 02 Like five months, no, what is it, October? Yeah, five months ago, I stopped going.
38:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, and how's it been?
38:35 Speaker 02 Pretty good. I'm actually really proud of myself when it comes to that. I've like been able to,
38:43 Speaker 02 I guess like self navigate or maybe self therapies like problems that have been coming up. And I'm really proud of myself for that.
38:49 Speaker 03 What do you, is that you, do you think that's the biggest thing you've gotten out of therapy so far?
38:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, when I first started doing therapy, I think maybe two or three years ago, every session I would be crying and I was like, okay, maybe it was good that I was here.
39:03 Speaker 03 Suck.
39:04 Speaker 02 Yeah. I was like, okay, my bad. I didn't even know that it was like that.
39:08 Speaker 03 Like that, yeah.
39:10 Speaker 02 And this year, it's been about like, a lot of the problems I'm having now is just like work related and like self care. And she wasn't telling me, this sounds bad too, but she wasn't saying anything that I didn't know.
39:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:21 Speaker 02 It was just a matter of, I guess I needed someone else to tell me to do the things that I know how to do, I guess.
39:27 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:27 Speaker 02 It was like, leave out time for yourself. Cook your own meals.
39:32 Speaker 03 Stop going to Wendy's.
39:33 Speaker 02 Right.
39:34 Speaker 03 Right.
39:34 Speaker 02 Maybe figure out a way to go to sleep without jerking off.
39:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:38 Speaker 02 So.
39:38 Speaker 03 Why?
39:39 Speaker 02 I know. I haven't got past that one yet.
39:41 Speaker 03 That one seems harmless.
39:42 Speaker 02 I'll let you know when I do. I'll text you.
39:43 Speaker 03 Yeah. You text me at like 6 a.m. one morning?
39:46 Speaker 02 I did it.
39:46 Speaker 03 Good news, King. I just slept without jerking off.
39:50 Speaker 02 I fucking did it. I fucking did it.
39:52 Speaker 03 That one seems harmless.
39:53 Speaker 02 It is harmless. I think it is.
39:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:55 Speaker 02 But who knows?
39:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, I've been thinking about getting back to therapy, but mostly because I, I really relate to the thing about like, well, a therapist has never told me something I don't know, frankly, like that's just reality. That there, every time I've been in therapy, they've said things that I'm like, duh, like, I'm sorry, just duh. I know that.
40:12 Speaker 02 I feel like a lot of it is just like, you need someone to say, you need to do it. You need to take an action item.
40:17 Speaker 03 I want someone to be there keeping, keeping track. Like, I would like to, I would like to be with someone who's like, remember three months ago when you were working on that thing and now it's better? Cause I will have that realization myself sometimes way too late that I'm like, you've gotten way better at this thing.
40:29 Speaker 02 Yeah.
40:29 Speaker 03 I would like to maybe, I, I'm thinking about going back to therapy now because I'm like, that would be nice to just have someone who's like, hey, how's that thing going?
40:36 Speaker 02 Okay.
40:36 Speaker 03 How's that, how's that thing you were working on?
40:37 Speaker 02 Are you the same way with like creatively with, when it comes to your comedy and like work and stuff like that?
40:41 Speaker 03 How do you mean?
40:42 Speaker 02 Like, do you need like partners and stuff to keep you? Motivated?
40:47 Speaker 03 No, I'm very self motivated and I would actually like to incorporate more collaboration into my creative life.
40:54 Speaker 02 I see what you're saying, yeah.
40:55 Speaker 03 I do pretty much everything on my own creatively.
40:57 Speaker 02 Okay, cool.
40:58 Speaker 03 Like in terms of like ideating, not making things like there's a whole team to make everything. I obviously can't engineer the show, Nicole does that, I need Chance's help, Michelle's help. I have a lot of help in my life, but when it comes to like writing jokes, finishing the script, getting the thing done, like the creative stuff that needs to come from my brain.
41:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
41:16 Speaker 03 I would like to work in more ways to like extract that stuff.
41:20 Speaker 02 Okay.
41:20 Speaker 03 With other people. I think that'd be fun.
41:21 Speaker 02 Do you have any advice for me to start stand up?
41:24 Speaker 03 Are you thinking about starting stand up?
41:25 Speaker 02 I want to.
41:25 Speaker 03 Oh my god!
41:27 Speaker 02 The next natural thing I need to do.
41:29 Speaker 03 That makes me so happy. I love that. Well, my advice is just start doing it.
41:32 Speaker 02 Okay.
41:33 Speaker 03 And, um, open mics were never any good for me personally. I didn't have fun at them. They were deeply misogynistic, which made me ill, and homophobic, which made me mad. And even when they weren't, I just didn't feel like it was useful information.
41:47 Speaker 02 Sure.
41:47 Speaker 03 Six comics barely paying attention to you, laughing at your material, tells you nothing about a joke. A lot of comics I deeply love and respect disagree with that. My personal opinion is that it's just not good feedback.
41:57 Speaker 02 Okay.
41:57 Speaker 03 So here's the advice I would give you, or anyone who's thinking about starting stand up, is there's always room for more of us. Please do it. I don't subscribe to the idea that we need fewer stand ups. We need more people who give a shit about it and actually want to be good at it.
42:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
42:09 Speaker 03 So if that's you, come on out. And then what I would say is like, get booked on some friends' shows and things like low stakes shows to build some material. And then after you have a good little base of material, if you want to test new stuff, ask to jump on someone's show or do a booked show, like in New York, it's like Union Hall, Littlefield, Bell House, these are those places. And the way I test new material without doing open mics is, well now I could put up a new material show if I wanted to, like I'm lucky to have an audience like that. But when I didn't, I would do... Like a 70 30 or a 60 40 where I would do like, I would open with a really strong joke that I've done before that I know works and then I would try some new stuff and then I would middle with a strong existing joke, try some new stuff and then close with a strong existing joke.
42:53 Speaker 02 That's smart. Okay.
42:54 Speaker 03 So it's like, I'm not robbing the audience of a good set.
42:56 Speaker 02 Yeah.
42:56 Speaker 03 I know that I'll open, open middle and close on something that's tested and works.
42:59 Speaker 02 Mm hmm.
43:00 Speaker 03 But I'm also not robbing myself of the chance to get a genuine audience reaction to what I'm working on.
43:05 Speaker 02 That's really smart. Okay, wow.
43:06 Speaker 03 That's one piece of advice I can give you.
43:07 Speaker 02 Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
43:08 Speaker 03 I would love to see you do stand up.
43:09 Speaker 02 I would love to see it too. And the thing is, I kind of, all of my jokes are already posted online. You know what I mean? Like, I'm already a comedian. I just need to take literally what I post on TikTok and make a story out of it. So I'm excited.
43:23 Speaker 03 Absolutely.
43:23 Speaker 02 This is something I'm thinking about doing maybe next year. I'm pretty booked until the end of it. So of this year, I mean.
43:29 Speaker 03 I love it. I think also something to consider is like, there are a lot of people who put like, uh, John Marco Sorace is somebody who is such a great stand up, such a great writer.
43:40 Speaker 02 He was just on the show too.
43:41 Speaker 03 I love him. And he tests a lot of stuff online and then takes it to the stage.
43:45 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah.
43:45 Speaker 03 That's one way to do it. And then another way, a way that I like to do it is if I have something that's really juicy and really good that I think is gonna be amazing, like, if I think it's like stand up that I'm gonna love, I won't say it anywhere else.
43:56 Speaker 02 Oh, right.
43:56 Speaker 03 And I save it for the stage. And that sometimes is really fun too, to be like, oh, if I have this story that I love, that I think is so juicy and like.
44:03 Speaker 02 So it stays fresh.
44:05 Speaker 03 And then I just don't know.
44:05 Speaker 02 There's been many a comedian in New York that I've seen online and I'm like, I know every single one of your punchlines already. Yeah, gotcha.
44:12 Speaker 03 I think saving some stuff for the stage is so, such a gift to the audience.
44:16 Speaker 02 Having some lore, some mystery. Some mystique. I'm excited for your stand up era. Thank you.
44:22 Speaker 03 Who are, do you have like stand up, uh, inspirations?
44:26 Speaker 02 Yes, I'm so glad you asked. Obviously Bob, I love Bob the Drag Queen. She's like one of my biggest inspirations.
44:32 Speaker 03 Bob is so fucking funny and smart. It's insane.
44:35 Speaker 02 It's smart. Like so smart.
44:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:37 Speaker 02 Um, do you know who Ali Siddique is?
44:39 Speaker 03 I don't.
44:40 Speaker 02 He's really funny. He's, um, I remember watching one of his specials and I think I was, um, just listening to it and the way he can navigate through a story and his timing is perfect. I love Ali Siddique. Um, it used to be, used to be Kevin Hart too, but I'm.
44:58 Speaker 03 What changed?
45:00 Speaker 02 I don't know. It became too.
45:04 Speaker 02 Uh, flouncy, I guess.
45:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:05 Speaker 02 I, I, I'm not gonna go in that direction is what I'm essentially saying.
45:10 Speaker 03 I will say on that front, and this is no, personally no knock on Kevin, I really respect his craft.
45:14 Speaker 02 Me too.
45:15 Speaker 03 But there is, I do think he, um, it seems that he suffered a little bit from what a lot of stand-up suffer from, which is that stand-up is the people's art form.
45:23 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
45:23 Speaker 03 Stand-up is a relatability art form.
45:25 Speaker 02 Yes.
45:25 Speaker 03 Getting up in front of a room of people and talking about life in a way that makes sense to you and to them.
45:29 Speaker 02 I think after his, whatever his third Netflix thing was.
45:33 Speaker 03 Because guess what happened?
45:34 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:35 Speaker 03 He got rich.
45:35 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:36 Speaker 03 And so you get rich, and then if you're lucky, you don't lose touch, but very few people have been lucky. And I think he suffers a little bit now from being like, all of his stories are like, "Me and LeBron James were on the PGA," and it's like, "I'm bored."
45:47 Speaker 02 I do like him with, um, Dwayne The Rock Johnson. I think they're hilarious together.
45:50 Speaker 03 Well, they're just so...
45:51 Speaker 02 They're so... It's like, right there.
45:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:54 Speaker 02 It's written there. Oh, and Monique as well. Monique is huge.
45:57 Speaker 03 You know she's one of mine.
45:57 Speaker 02 I love Monique.
45:58 Speaker 03 Monique, Queens of Comedy set?
45:59 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
46:00 Speaker 03 Monique, Queens of Comedy set?
46:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
46:03 Speaker 03 She is everything to me.
46:04 Speaker 02 You skinny bitches are evil and you need to be destroyed!
46:06 Speaker 03 You need to be destroyed. Her, the Monique Queens of Comedy set, her coming out and say, she, I don't, I've talked about this a million times on this show at this point. The two of the most iconic sets of all time to me are Monique Queens of Comedy and, uh, Bernie Mac. When he's doing...
46:20 Speaker 02 Oh, I love Bernie Mac.
46:21 Speaker 03 Not Scared of Y'all.
46:21 Speaker 02 I'd never gotten to him, like, deeply. I loved his show, though.
46:25 Speaker 03 Unbelievable.
46:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
46:27 Speaker 03 Uh, especially that set, the "I'm Not Scared of Y'all, Kick It" that set. But Monique, when she, she starts that set by coming out and going, "Every fat bitch in this room should be standing up and applauding me right now."
46:41 Speaker 02 That's mother!
46:42 Speaker 03 And I was like, "Queen, dude."
46:43 Speaker 02 That's what Andy said.
46:45 Speaker 03 Uh, and I did, I got up and applauded.
46:47 Speaker 02 That's mother!
46:49 Speaker 03 I had just, like, the first time I saw that in high school, I had never seen a fat person take up a room like that.
46:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
46:55 Speaker 03 And I was like, "Oh, she's not apologizing. She's so in charge."
46:58 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm. I feel like if people, like, scroll down my, um, my, my channels, they will see, like, the inspirations of Monique and Ali and, um...
47:10 Speaker 02 And a little bit of, and Bob, of like, just seeing like how I navigate and like every word is funny. I'm like picking each word specifically for the joke. That's what I really appreciate about their kind of comedy, too.
47:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:21 Speaker 02 Smart.
47:22 Speaker 03 She, yeah, she's so smart and fearless and, yeah, I love, I love, her Queens of Comedy is the biggest thing for me, but then obviously The Parkers. Meet the Parkers.
47:30 Speaker 02 I don't know if I've seen it.
47:31 Speaker 03 Really?
47:31 Speaker 02 Mm-mm.
47:32 Speaker 03 Oh, my god.
47:33 Speaker 02 Is there, what joke was the most, I don't know if I've seen it.
47:37 Speaker 03 Uh, it's not really a, it's a sitcom, so it's, it's just like her.
47:41 Speaker 02 Oh, I didn't, yeah, I didn't, I don't know anything about this.
47:43 Speaker 03 Is, and also was it Meet the Parkers or just The Parkers? That's what I thought. The Parkers is Monique, uh, sitcom from like late 90s, early 2000s.
47:51 Speaker 02 Who else is in it?
47:52 Speaker 03 Who else was in it?
47:53 Speaker 04 Uh, yeah, it was, so it was called just The Parkers and it was on, uh, yeah, 1999 to 2004 on UPN. It was a spinoff to Moesha.
48:05 Speaker 03 Oh!
48:06 Speaker 04 It stars Monique, uh, Countess Vaughn, uh, Mari Moro.
48:10 Speaker 02 I have heard of this.
48:11 Speaker 04 Dorian Wilson, Jenna Von Oi, Kanelle and Yvette Wilson.
48:15 Speaker 03 You have to watch it for a million reasons, but not the least of which is Monique plays.
48:18 Speaker 02 Because I'm black.
48:19 Speaker 03 A horny, yes. Uh, Monique plays, imagine, Monique plays a horny legend.
48:24 Speaker 02 Oh, I live.
48:25 Speaker 03 She's so horny in that show.
48:26 Speaker 02 Is she not just a horny legend?
48:27 Speaker 03 Well, she is, but I'm saying like in the show, she imb, in such a specific, she's like going after this professor the whole time.
48:32 Speaker 02 I love that.
48:33 Speaker 03 She, it's, it's unbelievable.
48:35 Speaker 02 I, um, and I think maybe because I do gaydar, like a lot of people think I'm just like a lexicon of references.
48:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:42 Speaker 02 If it is before 2010, I promise you I don't know it.
48:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:46 Speaker 02 I promise you.
48:47 Speaker 03 Well, do you know, I knew, I, I randomly will know a bunch of stuff about the, I don't know if you guys ever got into this, but the, I love the 90s, I love the OOs, I love the, do you know, do you know that show? See, there's something missing in our culture now. Was it VH1 or MTV?
49:01 Speaker 04 It was VH1.
49:02 Speaker 03 VH1 had this series called like I Love the Series and it was a panel show for comedians and writers and musicians to come on and do like talking head interviews about like, I love the 2000s would be like everything important that happened culturally in the 2000s. And it was like how I learned pop culture history.
49:19 Speaker 02 Okay.
49:20 Speaker 03 And I don't know if it's streaming somewhere, but honestly, like worth a watch.
49:23 Speaker 02 That actually sounds like something I need.
49:24 Speaker 03 And it's funny, it would be like.
49:25 Speaker 02 My sisters are constantly trying to catch me up on, on like pop culture references from the 90s and the 2000s. But I just, there's so much where I can't, like, there's no way I can be.
49:37 Speaker 02 Like at the front of now and trying to learn at the same time? I don't know.
49:43 Speaker 03 I'm not really at the front of now. I'm behind on so many things now.
49:46 Speaker 02 Good.
49:46 Speaker 03 I don't know what the hell's going on.
49:48 Speaker 02 Good.
49:48 Speaker 03 Uh, movies I'm pretty up on, but TV shows, I haven't seen like any TV show.
49:52 Speaker 02 Yeah.
49:52 Speaker 03 So I'm always behind on that. The Parkers iconic though, they go to college together, they have a little apartment, it's mother-daughter, it's cute.
49:58 Speaker 02 Love an adult sitcom.
49:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, really fun. What is your favorite, like what's your favorite TV show of all time?
50:03 Speaker 02 My instinct is to say Naruto, but um, just because it's what I grew up on.
50:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:08 Speaker 02 I think if I had to pick like a, a western live action, live action, um, I don't know.
50:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:16 Speaker 02 That's a good one. I will say what I liked recently in the past year or so, I loved The Last of Us, I thought they did that really, really well.
50:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:24 Speaker 02 I loved, um, I recently watched, what's it called? Uh, Scavengers Reign, I liked it, I couldn't finish it though, cause it was too uh, heebie-jeebie.
50:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:35 Speaker 02 Um.
50:35 Speaker 03 It's scary, you're like.
50:37 Speaker 02 It was just like, not scary, there's like creatures and morphine and body horror and gore and that kinda stuff. And I'm not a huge fan of that kinda stuff. But it was a great story. Um, what else have I liked? Oh, Interview with the Vampire, okay, got it. Interview with the Vampire is probably one of my favorite TV shows ever.
51:00 Speaker 03 Oh yeah?
51:00 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:01 Speaker 03 I love that.
51:01 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm. Have you seen it?
51:03 Speaker 03 No.
51:04 Speaker 02 Gay vampires start in Louisiana.
51:08 Speaker 03 I need to log in. Hello.
51:10 Speaker 02 That's all you need.
51:10 Speaker 03 Hello.
51:11 Speaker 02 That's all you need.
51:12 Speaker 03 That is all I need.
51:12 Speaker 02 I really need you to see that movie, that TV show actually.
51:15 Speaker 03 I will. What is so true to you?
51:18 Speaker 02 So true to me?
51:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:19 Speaker 02 Is this the thing you guys have told me to come, okay. Um, I've been thinking about this.
51:26 Speaker 03 Thank you. You're, you're one of the only.
51:28 Speaker 02 Well, I knew, this is the thing, I go on podcasts and I'm like, oh, they're gonna ask me something for their show.
51:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:36 Speaker 02 And I'm always under research.
51:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:37 Speaker 02 So I was thinking about it.
51:41 Speaker 02 And not to be on some Alpha Beta Omega Dynamics shit, but to also be on some Alpha Beta Omega shit.
51:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:49 Speaker 02 I think men should get pregnant.
51:52 Speaker 03 Thank you. This has come up.
51:54 Speaker 02 I really do.
51:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:55 Speaker 02 And I can't speak to the logistics.
52:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:00 Speaker 02 I can't speak to the anatomy or the physiology of such.
52:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:04 Speaker 02 I just think we would be in a completely different position globally if men got pregnant.
52:11 Speaker 03 I agree.
52:11 Speaker 02 And it's not even like they need to be inseminated. Maybe it's every time they inseminate, they get pregnant. Like if there's some kind of.
52:19 Speaker 03 The egg travels into them.
52:22 Speaker 03 Let's wake that up.
52:23 Speaker 02 Boom.
52:24 Speaker 03 Where is science?
52:25 Speaker 02 Boom.
52:26 Speaker 03 Because what are we doing with science if the egg can't go up the dick?
52:28 Speaker 02 I'm thinking, I'm thinking like, okay, first of all, crazy. Wild. That's insane.
52:37 Speaker 02 Whoa. I'm thinking like, anything from financially to racially to sexually, romantically, things would change.
52:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:48 Speaker 02 Like, and I don't know if it's better.
52:52 Speaker 02 What's so true to me? What's so true to me? I don't know if it's better if both sexes can get pregnant.
53:01 Speaker 03 Ooh.
53:03 Speaker 02 So it's all skate?
53:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:05 Speaker 02 Or if it's like in 20 years, or no, in two years, everybody on the other side of the spectrum can get pregnant. I don't know what's better.
53:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:17 Speaker 02 But that's what's true to me. I think men should get pregnant.
53:20 Speaker 03 I like that. I really like that.
53:22 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
53:22 Speaker 03 And I would support it and love it. And I wish I could get a man pregnant. I've said, I've said this on the show. I think it would be really cool.
53:33 Speaker 03 What?
53:34 Speaker 02 It's just, it's a lot, Caleb.
53:36 Speaker 03 You think that's crazy of me?
53:37 Speaker 02 I don't think it's crazy. I just, maybe what's happening is I'm reconciling my headcanon of you from a bottom to a top.
53:47 Speaker 03 Whoa, you thought I was a bottom this whole time?
53:49 Speaker 02 No, I didn't think you were just a bottom.
53:50 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:51 Speaker 02 I thought you might have had a preference.
53:55 Speaker 03 I never thought you were just a bottom. I always thought you were so much more than that.
53:57 Speaker 02 Right. We teach bottoms and James Factora, they're a writer at them.
54:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:03 Speaker 02 Came on my show and was like, "We teach bottoms to be small, to shrink themselves." I was like, "That is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life."
54:09 Speaker 03 I'm not a top or a bottom or a verse. I'm a dedicated team player who thrives in a fast-paced environment.
54:16 Speaker 02 And you'd be great at Starbucks.
54:20 Speaker 03 I just love to see the team win, you know?
54:23 Speaker 02 Are you a cuck?
54:24 Speaker 03 I want to see everyone, I want to see everyone getting what they need. I want everyone to come.
54:29 Speaker 02 I live for that.
54:30 Speaker 03 I want everyone to have a good time.
54:31 Speaker 02 Everybody should come.
54:32 Speaker 03 Everybody should come.
54:33 Speaker 02 You included?
54:35 Speaker 03 Me? Oh, definitely.
54:39 Speaker 03 If I don't come, it didn't happen.
54:40 Speaker 02 I don't know. It sounded just so altruistic. I wasn't expecting that from you.
54:42 Speaker 03 Oh, no, I'm coming. Yeah. No, I need to come.
54:45 Speaker 02 I'm gonna get mine, sweetie.
54:46 Speaker 03 But everyone gets to come.
54:47 Speaker 02 Yeah.
54:48 Speaker 03 I'm not the only one.
54:49 Speaker 02 You're a, you're a, a social comer.
54:52 Speaker 03 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
54:56 Speaker 02 I want you to stop acting like you can't think.
54:57 Speaker 03 And I'm coming.
55:02 Speaker 02 Do not come.
55:03 Speaker 03 Do not come.
55:04 Speaker 02 Do not come.
55:04 Speaker 03 Do not come. I love that.
55:06 Speaker 02 Good for you.
55:07 Speaker 03 Thank you.
55:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm proud of you.
55:09 Speaker 03 Thank you.
55:09 Speaker 02 What's, what's your usual so true take?
55:12 Speaker 03 Oh, I haven't done one in a while. What's so true to me right now? Um, I, I mean, I, I say some, some version of this all the time, but we really, we have to throw the smartphones in the oceans.
55:25 Speaker 02 Sure.
55:25 Speaker 03 It has to end.
55:26 Speaker 02 I think about often about like, how, I miss letters. I miss letters. I miss writing letters.
55:33 Speaker 03 Really cool.
55:34 Speaker 02 Um, one of my friends and I used to be pen pals. Like, we would send each other letters instead of like texting all the time.
55:40 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:40 Speaker 02 But then they moved here.
55:41 Speaker 03 Fuck.
55:42 Speaker 02 Like, what the fuck?
55:44 Speaker 03 I have a friend in New York who sends me letters.
55:45 Speaker 02 That's awesome. I guess I could. It's just like, now, there's not really an excuse.
55:51 Speaker 03 Yeah. I just, yeah, I need us to figure something else out. I'm not having fun.
55:56 Speaker 02 Yeah.
55:56 Speaker 03 I don't want people to continue hitting me up. What's so true to me is, don't hit me up. Like, unless you have something really fun to bring to me, stop asking me for stuff. Everybody wants something.
56:07 Speaker 02 That's true. I wonder, maybe we'll talk about this off the camera too. But it feels like I'm in this exact same experience where it feels like a lot of people need a lot of things from me all of a sudden.
56:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:18 Speaker 02 And I hate it.
56:19 Speaker 03 I hate it.
56:19 Speaker 02 And I think they have, it's the constant access to me that is allowing them to do such, which I hate.
56:27 Speaker 03 Yeah, there's something, yeah, I'm trying really hard to give off a don't contact me vibe. That's not, there's something about my jolly, fat, Midwestern presence that's negating the vibe I'm giving.
56:37 Speaker 02 Sure.
56:37 Speaker 03 And so I'm actually, I think I'm giving off, hit me up.
56:40 Speaker 02 Right, because it's, I mean, like, do you ever feel like you can't be fat and mean?
56:43 Speaker 03 For sure.
56:44 Speaker 02 Okay.
56:44 Speaker 03 Constantly.
56:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
56:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I'm doing it anyway.
56:49 Speaker 03 I was literally getting ready to say.
56:51 Speaker 02 So you're being both.
56:52 Speaker 03 So you're being both.
56:53 Speaker 02 And we're right back to bisexual.
56:54 Speaker 03 And we're right back to bi. All roads lead to bi, and I've always said that.
56:58 Speaker 02 All roads lead to bi.
56:59 Speaker 03 What's your sexuality these days?
57:01 Speaker 02 Um, I'm a non-binary, bisexual, trans woman.
57:04 Speaker 03 That's what I thought.
57:05 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's a lot.
57:06 Speaker 03 Insert applause.
57:07 Speaker 02 A lot of people, you know, a lot of people just had an aneurysm.
57:09 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:10 Speaker 02 They were like, eh eh eh.
57:11 Speaker 03 All my Republican fans.
57:12 Speaker 02 Their, like, brain took a screenshot.
57:14 Speaker 03 The number's not zero. Chance, I would like to do a segment, please. Let's go. Thank you, babe.
57:21 Speaker 02 Ah, I'm so excited for this.
57:23 Speaker 03 And I, um, I have a segment for you. True or false? I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can. If you think that what I just said is true or false, if you get 10 or more correct, you know.
57:35 Speaker 02 Okay.
57:35 Speaker 03 We're gonna give you 50 US dollars.
57:37 Speaker 02 Okay.
57:37 Speaker 03 The segment has kind of randomly become, like, everyone's favorite part of the show.
57:41 Speaker 02 It is kind of iconic.
57:42 Speaker 03 It's an, it's the iconic so true.
57:44 Speaker 02 It's also such a good, um, we'll talk marketing later, but it's just such a good, it's such a good way to post, like, to promote your show.
57:50 Speaker 03 We'll talk marketing later. Okay, you ready?
57:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, but if I do get less than 10, I'm calling you transphobic.
57:54 Speaker 03 Of course.
57:54 Speaker 02 All right.
57:55 Speaker 03 And you would be right. Um, cheese existed before written language.
57:59 Speaker 02 Uh, true.
58:00 Speaker 03 True. Smoking one cigarette can reduce your life expectancy by about 20 days.
58:03 Speaker 02 False.
58:04 Speaker 03 False, it's 20 minutes. Snakes sleep with their eyes open. False. True. A group of Wildcats is called the Destruction. True. True. Iowa State University's mascot is the Hawkeyes. False. False. It's the Cyclones. And, yeah, that was a chance you tried to do a trick, but a real Iowa person knows. There's no word in the English language that rhymes with month.
58:26 Speaker 03 False. True. Emerson College's school paper is the Berkeley Beacon. Oh, true. True. Cynthia, Cynthia Erivo was born in Scotland. True. False. England. Razor scooters came out in 1989. True. False. 2000. William Henry Harrison was only president for a month. True. True. Only 2% of Earth's population naturally has green eyes. False. True. Davenport, Iowa is the largest of the Quad Cities. True. True. Facebook is older than, Facebook is older than LinkedIn.
59:00 Speaker 03 I actually don't know. True? False. Okay. Heinz ketchup.
59:04 Speaker 03 Okay. Immediately. Okay. Heinz ketchup was originally a glue company. False. False. The Pope can't be an organ donor.
59:15 Speaker 03 False. True? It's true. What the fuck? How'd they do? Nine. Oh. You transphobic piece of shit. I know. That's okay. I did get all the Iowa ones right. Thank you for that. Oh, that one was, oh, maybe it'll go, slow that down, make me look cool. Nine was a beautiful run. That's okay. And the Pope thing, what is that? Is that true? Like, is it because his organs are so much better than mine? They're holy from God. Uh, it's because the church owns his body. Yeah. Yeah. Wake up. Wake up, people. Literally, wake up. Hello? That doesn't sound crazy? Say that one more time. The Catholic Church owns the Pope's body. Hello? Is that not fucking crazy? These people are psychotic.
59:58 Speaker 03 If you take any piece of religion and just like sit with it for a moment. Yeah. They're all fucking bananas. I knew I wasn't gonna be like, at least religious in that sense, very long, as soon as I started asking questions. Yeah. Because the reaction from adults, when you start asking questions, no, I was like, something's up. The whole thing's crumbling. Something's up. They're like, don't poke holes. I've decided on this. Yeah, it's nuts.
1:00:21 Speaker 02 Why?
1:00:21 Speaker 03 Why?
1:00:22 Speaker 02 Because it is.
1:00:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:23 Speaker 02 Why? Because it is. Uh-uh. No ma'am.
1:00:26 Speaker 03 Anania.
1:00:26 Speaker 02 Yes.
1:00:27 Speaker 03 Such a treat to have you.
1:00:28 Speaker 02 I am so honored to be here. Thank you.
1:00:30 Speaker 03 We love you so deeply. Tell the people where they can find you, what they should be watching.
1:00:33 Speaker 02 You can find me at Anania00, A-N-A-N-I-A-00, and watch my show Gadar.
1:00:40 Speaker 03 And come see you.
1:00:41 Speaker 02 And come see Saturday Church. By the time this comes out, we might be closed.
1:00:45 Speaker 03 When do you close?
1:00:45 Speaker 02 October 24th.
1:00:47 Speaker 03 Nope, there's some time.
1:00:48 Speaker 02 Oh, work! Come see Saturday Church at the New York Theatre Workshop.
1:00:51 Speaker 03 Come see Saturday Church.
1:00:52 Speaker 02 I'm on broad.
1:00:53 Speaker 03 And watch Gadar and follow Anania. Thank you so much for doing it, babe.
1:00:56 Speaker 02 Thank you!
1:00:57 Speaker 03 Yay!
1:00:57 Speaker 02 Bye, queers.
1:00:59 Speaker 01 That was a HeadGum Podcast.
1:01:02 Speaker 00 Let's be honest, you don't go to the holiday gift exchange just to participate. You go to win. This year, cause a stir. Gift a KitchenAid stand mixer to whip up new traditions. 'Tis your season to mix it up.
Previous Rosebud Baker has a Tall Baby Next Holmes Returns Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated