Pod Insights So True with Caleb Hearon Gaten Matarazzo Loves Pizza About this episode Welcome! This week’s guest is the talented Gaten Matarazzo! Gaten and Caleb talk growing up in the public eye, weird encounters in bathrooms, the proper ways to grieve, Star Wars, and much more! Watch PIZZA MOVIE starring Gaten and Caleb on Hulu April 3rd!
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Transcript 15,610 words · 7 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 Ugh, I hate Mondays.
0:01 Speaker 01 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Swirl Bite?
0:03 Speaker 00 Uh, Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
0:09 Speaker 02 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
0:10 Speaker 00 But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites.
0:15 Speaker 02 Taylor Hansen? Nice.
0:17 Speaker 01 Try one.
0:18 Speaker 02 Mmm.
0:22 Speaker 03 King's Hawaiian Cinnamon Bites. There's nothing like it.
0:34 Speaker 04 I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual.
0:43 Speaker 05 No, because their money is green.
0:46 Speaker 05 Still stream Pizza Movie.
0:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please, please.
0:48 Speaker 05 If you're a devout Catholic, still stream Pizza Movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you.
0:52 Speaker 04 For sure.
0:58 Speaker 05 Today's episode, he's presented by Intuit Turbo Tech. Now this is tech, this is... Gaten, how's it going?
1:05 Speaker 04 It's doing very well, Caleb. How are you?
1:06 Speaker 05 Dude, I'm so glad you're here.
1:07 Speaker 04 Me too.
1:08 Speaker 05 This is a delight to me.
1:09 Speaker 04 This is a delight to me as well.
1:10 Speaker 05 I, uh, what, how did this come about? I, something happened at South by, did it not?
1:17 Speaker 04 I think so.
1:17 Speaker 05 Oh, it was Billy.
1:18 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:19 Speaker 05 It was Billy. We were sitting, we were sitting in the hotel and Billy goes, Caleb, you have to have Gaten on your podcast. I went, I said, Billy, we'll sort this.
1:28 Speaker 04 I wanted to be clear. First, like, he brought it up. The way he brought it up, it seemed like it was such a, I was such an awkward way of bringing it up because it seemed very much like I was like...
1:40 Speaker 05 Will you say something?
1:42 Speaker 05 Can you please stand up for me? Stand up for me.
1:44 Speaker 04 I swear I didn't, but it seemed like, the way he said, he was like, oh, Caleb, you should have, uh, you should have Gaten on the podcast.
1:50 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing where you're like, it's kind of like when you were a kid and you wanted to ask to like sleep over at a friend's house and you'd be like, my mom's not gonna go for it unless you ask.
1:58 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly.
1:59 Speaker 05 What if Gaten stayed over tonight, do you guys think?
2:03 Speaker 04 I was so embarrassed. I was like, you blew up my spot for no reason. I didn't even say anything.
2:07 Speaker 05 Not at all. No, I'm thrilled to have you here.
2:08 Speaker 04 Me too. I'm glad to be here.
2:09 Speaker 05 I'm so glad. We met making Pizza Movie.
2:11 Speaker 04 Yes, indeed.
2:12 Speaker 05 For Hulu.
2:12 Speaker 04 For Hulu, indeed. In that weird little hot warehouse on your first day.
2:15 Speaker 05 Weird little hot warehouse. I showed up. I had such a funny experience meeting you for that because I filmed my HBO special the night before, went out, like, celebrated with everyone.
2:25 Speaker 04 You're a trooper for doing that.
2:26 Speaker 05 Filming a special is like a fucking crazy undertaking. I had also thrown, not thrown my back out, but like, I had gone for a really long bike ride the day before filming the special.
2:37 Speaker 04 Oh.
2:38 Speaker 05 Cause I wanted to like move and feel like get some stress out and I hurt my back really fucking bad.
2:43 Speaker 04 Where was it? Where would you?
2:44 Speaker 05 It was in Chicago.
2:45 Speaker 04 Oh, cool.
2:46 Speaker 05 I filmed in Chicago at like a DIY music venue that we like turned into a venue. Katie Birmingham, who designed the set, designed this like
2:52 Speaker 04 Indeed.
2:52 Speaker 05 black box DIY venue to make it look so cute. But then I filmed the special with a really fucking hurt back. And then the next morning at like 7:00 AM, I had to fly to Syracuse and get off the plane and come straight to you.
3:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:06 Speaker 05 And start filming this fucking movie. And so I was in such a, I mean, I wasn't, I was trying not to show up, but I was in such a bad mood.
3:14 Speaker 05 Cause I got there, they hadn't told me, this comes out after the movie comes out?
3:18 Speaker 04 Uh, the movie comes out tomorrow.
3:19 Speaker 05 Okay, so I won't spoil, I won't spoil anything because people haven't seen.
3:21 Speaker 04 That's very nice.
3:22 Speaker 05 Crazy. Comes out tomorrow from this episode.
3:24 Speaker 04 From this episode.
3:25 Speaker 05 Okay, not, okay. Um, but I got there and had to get into this crazy getup that I wasn't aware I was gonna be wearing.
3:32 Speaker 04 I felt so bad. When I found out you didn't, when I found out you didn't know, I, my heart sank into my stomach. I was like, I just felt terrible. Cause I knew you were coming back from the special. Everyone was making a whole deal of it. Like, everyone was talking about how excited we were about you coming by, especially under the circumstances. And my first question to Nick and Brian was, what's the, what's Caleb's first scene? And then they told me, I was like, he's gonna be so pissed.
3:55 Speaker 05 And I was not pissed. I was just like, I was tired and confused.
3:59 Speaker 04 So bad.
4:00 Speaker 05 And when you guys see the movie, you'll, you'll understand what I had to do. But day one, they were like, yeah, it's really, it's a really intense makeup, uh, that we need to do. And then we gotta get you in this crazy hot costume in this warehouse in the summer with no AC. And I was like, I'm usually very like, uh, on set, I'm usually very like, trying to play music and like keep the energy up. And when they started putting the costume on me, I was like, all right, let's get this quick.
4:24 Speaker 05 So Nick and Brian was like, let's get this shot. Let's get the image that we need and.
4:27 Speaker 04 Wasn't there like, wasn't there an established timeframe in which you had to be in and out of the costume? Because it was so hot. Were they like, we need to get all of this done.
4:36 Speaker 05 They were very kind to do that. They were very kind to do that. Yeah, they were. They were being very, very sweet because that was the only thing I had to do that day. Thank God. And they were very sweet to be like, hey, it's really hot. We should do this quick.
4:45 Speaker 04 Yeah.
4:46 Speaker 05 Which was nice.
4:47 Speaker 04 Which is nice.
4:47 Speaker 05 It was so fun making that movie.
4:48 Speaker 04 It was so much fun making that movie.
4:50 Speaker 05 Do you love it?
4:50 Speaker 04 I had a blast. Oh, it was great. I loved. The first time I saw it was at South by when we were all seeing it together, which is really, really exciting. And I was stoked for it. I think for a while, Nick and Brian know this. I feel comfy saying this is that I was terrified of it.
5:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:03 Speaker 04 For like during the filming process and then during the edit, after hearing how things were just developing and it's their feature debut. And so they would update me very, very consistently on what the ins and outs were looking like when it came to just getting the trailer figured out. And even working out like what the title was gonna be and why it ended up being named what it is. And that was a weird thing to be in the loop of.
5:28 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:28 Speaker 04 Which I hadn't been used to. So that was a little bit more high stress and I felt really good once we saw it.
5:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 04 I feel like it was, it felt like chaos right up until everything worked out because they were, they were still editing things like two days before. It was gonna be in the theater at the festival.
5:45 Speaker 05 Yeah.
5:45 Speaker 04 They were still working out little, I think, like probably audio things more than anything, but so that it was pretty stressful hearing about it. But I was stoked with the way it came out.
5:54 Speaker 05 It's really, I think it's so fucking dumb and funny.
5:57 Speaker 04 Really dumb and funny.
5:58 Speaker 05 It's so fun.
5:59 Speaker 04 I think it was a lot of fun to make.
6:01 Speaker 05 Yeah.
6:02 Speaker 04 I remember I said, cause it's such a, there's so many swings involved in the movie specifically that it's. One thing that was really fun to come to terms with over the course of making it was that. If it's going to be as successful as like this movie, if this type of movie is going to work, it's always going to be for a very specific type of person who enjoys these types of movies. And that's a success story as a whole. I think like it became a thing where we knew if we were going to try to go for as broad of a reach of like, let's see if we can get as many people to enjoy this as we can, it probably will not be a very good movie.
6:38 Speaker 05 Right.
6:39 Speaker 04 We have to just kind of be very assured in this, in the type of movie that we're making. And I think that it's better off for it.
6:47 Speaker 05 I think this was a really interesting choice for you. And I wanted to ask you about, because you and I have not gotten to talk about this actually. But like, you're coming off of, obviously, this little-known indie show called Stranger Things that most people haven't seen or heard of. But you're in this interesting position where now you're like making, it's a, to me, it's a really interesting choice for you as an actor to come off of something like Stranger Things and go do a movie like this. What, why did you do this movie? Like, what was the reasoning?
7:14 Speaker 04 I remember, it was a lot of right place, right time. And I'd finished filming the last season of the show in December of 2024. And this movie shot in June of 2025 is when we started filming and we shot, was that like through the whole summer pretty much?
7:30 Speaker 05 Yeah.
7:30 Speaker 04 I'm trying to remember when we wrapped, but we shot in the summer of 2025. And I remembered that the wind, the, the early months of 2025 being the whole thing that everybody around me was talking about was to, to relax as much as possible and to just like, let it sit and reflect on the year that it took to make the show and hear about the edit and stuff and just enjoy some time off. And I just, I hated it. I hated the time off.
8:00 Speaker 04 I'm not kidding, it was, I was.
8:01 Speaker 05 I did it and I fucking hated it.
8:05 Speaker 04 I hated not doing anything. And there was a conversation that came where I was, I was begging like, please, please, please let me. My managers and my parents and my family, my friends. I was, I remember saying, I'm like, I just want to jump back into something because I just felt so antsy. And I didn't know what to do with spare time.
8:24 Speaker 05 Well, you've said your biggest fear is solitude.
8:26 Speaker 04 Yeah.
8:26 Speaker 05 This is like a thing about you.
8:27 Speaker 04 This is actually a thing. I just, I don't enjoy it.
8:29 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:29 Speaker 04 And this is the first time. My girlfriend was filming her show, so she was in Vancouver. And I was in the city in my apartment without a job actively happening.
8:42 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:43 Speaker 04 Didn't know what to do.
8:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
8:44 Speaker 04 I was, I mean, it's probably a valuable lesson. I'm like, I would like to learn how to, you know, go about a day to day life without necessarily having a deadline or having anything to kind of dive into work wise. That's probably a healthy thing to try to figure out. But I did not, I did not feel good doing it. And so I remember I was just begging. I was like, please, could I just jump into something? Please, whatever comes through, let me jump into it. And they were like, no, take your time. Please wait. And so I just let it simmer until Pizza Movie came through. And I was still taping and auditioning for things. And they were like, okay, do something if it feels like you have to do it. And that's kind of weirdly what this felt like because it was something that came up and I, I've always said, no, I'm like, I have to be okay with.
9:28 Speaker 04 If I read something and I'm like, okay, I will never be able to do something like this again if I pass on this. And if I'm okay with that, great. But if I have to like be aware, because there are some things that come through. I'm like, I saw this last week.
9:39 Speaker 05 Yeah.
9:40 Speaker 04 And that's fine. Like something like this or something that I think is adjacent to an experience like this will come through again. So I can hold off.
9:47 Speaker 05 It's like a type of thing that's going to continue to come up. Yeah.
9:50 Speaker 04 Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. And this one was, I had to say, okay, I will, I know I will never do anything like this ever again if I pass on this. And for some reason, I just wasn't really okay with that.
10:01 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:01 Speaker 04 I don't know why. I was, I just saw it and I was like, yeah, I really just, I was like, so let's do the tape. And then I met Nick and Brian over the phone after taping.
10:09 Speaker 05 You taped for it?
10:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:11 Speaker 05 Oh, wow.
10:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, I taped for Montgomery.
10:15 Speaker 05 Yes, I do know this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:16 Speaker 04 I taped for Montgomery. I think they had a very different idea of what Jack was going to be, which made sense. They had a really good, I think, idea of what Jack was originally supposed to be. And I think they wanted, the one thing that came through by the time they were finishing up the casting process was Sean and Gaten look identical to each other. The whole thing is that it's like a dynamic duo comedy buddy comedy. And there's usually like a contrast and like a crazy like look difference that like kind of sets them apart. And Sean and I are in for the same things constantly. We look, we just, yeah, two short curly haired Italian boys. And it's like the funniest thing for us to play polar opposites, but that's kind of what they loved about it. So we were both in for Montgomery. And he had been attached as Montgomery for a long time. And they were just like exploring the world of it.
11:01 Speaker 04 And then I was like, can I just try Jack? And they're like, fine. And then I went in for the Cam read and yeah, that so on and so forth. And then it kind of just fell into place. But it was just, it just felt like summer camp instantly. And that's kind of why I became obsessed with it.
11:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
11:15 Speaker 04 It just felt, yeah. The head exploding sequence when I read it, oh shit, spoiled.
11:19 Speaker 05 That's in the trailer. That's fine. It's in the trailer. Don't worry about that. It's in the trailer.
11:24 Speaker 04 We're fine. We're good. We're good. Heads explode.
11:27 Speaker 05 Just watch the fucking movie.
11:28 Speaker 04 The heads exploding in the trailer. So you're fine. Uh, that's weirdly what sold me because on, I can't go into it yet. Damn it.
11:39 Speaker 05 Just know that there were things Gaten was thinking about the heads exploding.
11:43 Speaker 04 There were things, yeah. I just was obsessed with the idea of spending the summer doing something as insane as that.
11:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
11:50 Speaker 04 And it just, I knew it was just going to be a blast. And I just wanted to do something really, really fun. And low pressure in the sense of, of just doing something for the sake of making something fun and having fun doing it. And yeah, I think it was a good weird middle ground of this is going to be very challenging, but also scratching the itch that I had at the time.
12:11 Speaker 05 How old are you right now?
12:12 Speaker 04 I'm 23.
12:13 Speaker 05 You're 23. And when did you start Stranger Things?
12:15 Speaker 04 I was 12 when I booked the show.
12:17 Speaker 05 Christ. Okay. So that's fucking insane.
12:23 Speaker 05 Okay. I can deal with that. Hold on, I can deal with that. I mean, that's such an interesting like position to be in. Like Chance and I were talking before the episode, actually, that I feel like the only, and I could be wrong, maybe in the entire history of the show, someone will correct me in the comments, but I feel like the only other person we've had on the show that has experienced that kind of thing was Kiran and Shipka.
12:43 Speaker 04 Oh, for sure. I know Kiran. Kiran's great.
12:45 Speaker 05 Isn't she the best?
12:46 Speaker 04 Awesome.
12:47 Speaker 05 She is so fun.
12:48 Speaker 04 She's so fun.
12:48 Speaker 05 I love that girl.
12:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, she's great.
12:50 Speaker 05 I miss her. We got to do a movie together a couple of years ago and I, yeah, she's coming.
12:53 Speaker 04 I think Sweethearts is awesome.
12:54 Speaker 05 Sweethearts?
12:55 Speaker 04 It's great.
12:55 Speaker 05 Oh, it's fun.
12:56 Speaker 04 I saw it at Savannah when they showed it for, I think it was like the SCAD Film Festival. I was there. We, me and Caleb drove down, Caleb McLaughlin drove down from Atlanta because Caleb's sister was, was, was there at the time. And so we all met up and saw it there and it was great.
13:12 Speaker 05 It is so fun.
13:13 Speaker 04 It's so fun.
13:14 Speaker 05 It really, Sweethearts asked the question, can this very visibly 30-year-old man play a high school student?
13:23 Speaker 05 And we answered it with my character and the answer was not really.
13:26 Speaker 04 Not really. That's so funny.
13:29 Speaker 05 And the answer based on.
13:30 Speaker 04 Though, we need to start accepting that as a universal rule.
13:33 Speaker 05 Sometimes teenagers are 30.
13:35 Speaker 04 Sometimes, sometimes. I mean, for years, teenagers have been 30 in movies.
13:39 Speaker 05 Sometimes 30-year-olds need money and enjoyed reading a script. I actually turned that, when they asked me to come in for that, I said no, because I was like, let's all just get real for a second.
13:48 Speaker 04 Sure.
13:49 Speaker 05 I'm not playing an 18-year-old in any universe. There's not enough prosthetics, there's not enough. And then, thank God, Jordan got ahold of my team and was like, why didn't he come in for this?
13:58 Speaker 04 Right.
13:59 Speaker 05 Because normally when you pass, they're just like, cool. But thank God, Jordan pressed on it and was like, we really do want to see you for this. And I really, really love that movie, but Kiran is the fucking best.
14:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, Kiran's really cool.
14:07 Speaker 05 I love her so much. But you've had this weird experience where you were on this huge show when you were like 12 years old, 13 years old. And now you're out of that, that show has ended. What do you want? Like, what's the big goal?
14:20 Speaker 04 Oh, man.
14:21 Speaker 05 Come on. I don't mean in work, by the way, I mean in your life. I mean, what do you want for your life?
14:25 Speaker 04 Oh, man, that's a, that's a very fun question. I think what's interesting about the process of making Stranger Things was that it accelerated a lot of, or at least it brought forth questions that people usually have as they're entering their twenties of like, what would you think your career is going to be? Or what would you like your day-to-day to look like? What are, what's like a five-year plan? And those questions had kind of been answered at 13.
14:54 Speaker 04 Where we knew what the five to 10 year plan was going to be. I'm gonna burp into the mic, that's why I'm not talking quickly.
15:00 Speaker 05 No, I'm gonna.
15:03 Speaker 04 I had weird, I had those little, those little Starbucks egg bites.
15:07 Speaker 05 That'll do it.
15:07 Speaker 04 But the, uh, not the Starbucks ones, though, like, not the, the pepper ones.
15:11 Speaker 05 Thank you.
15:11 Speaker 04 But they were like the generic frozen ones.
15:13 Speaker 05 Yes, wow.
15:14 Speaker 04 Very good.
15:14 Speaker 05 It's really interesting to hear that you're on that.
15:16 Speaker 04 They're so yummy.
15:18 Speaker 05 I find it hard to believe that you're like microwaving your own egg bites, but that's a beautiful testament. It's, you may as well have just told me that you were out like tilling the land this morning.
15:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, my ox and I were out working the land this morning, so I'm a little out of sorts.
15:32 Speaker 04 Tummy's a little rumbling.
15:33 Speaker 05 Yeah.
15:34 Speaker 04 Which is fine. I, it's, it's a weird situation to jump into, uh, my twenties now with a lot, there's, what's really wonderful about it is that I, I grew on the show. And I got to do what I love for so long. And I'm very lucky in the sense that as I did it for a decade, I've come out of it with a love for it still, with a real deep love for what I do. Cause I know a lot of people who start at 12 or 13, enjoy it at that point, and then they reach adulthood and they're like, this is just not what I want to do with my life. And that's such an understandable, normal process to go through.
16:15 Speaker 04 There's so many things that you invest so much of your time with as a teenager, even as a young, as a younger kid. And it's just like weirdly, it's just something you grow out of and something you just, you realize you want to go down a different path. And sometimes that can be really stressful for younger people, especially in careers, because it's such a public endeavor. And usually people who take a step back or find a career shift, or just choose not to engage as much with it. There's like a whole public spectacle of like, where did they end up? Like, what happened to, like, the, the rise and fall story, which I think is, is unfair. And kinda silly, but most people who do take a step back, like if you talk to them personally, they're like, yeah, isn't that hilarious? Like when they're really just going off and pursuing
17:00 Speaker 04 so many other great things with their lives that aren't involved in this.
17:02 Speaker 05 Well, because we have this like societal worship of fame, which is not a really a status or a process to envy at all. Because we have this worship for fame and everyone imagines that they would like to be famous, even though they probably wouldn't like the the outcomes of that process. Because we have that cultural imagination about it and because we assume that fame is the goal, we measure so many artists against that metric that they're not measuring themselves against.
17:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
17:28 Speaker 05 They go, oh, so and so fell off. And it's like, or so and so is like building a life and a family right now. And they actually just don't want to be seen by you all the time.
17:35 Speaker 04 For sure.
17:36 Speaker 05 But it is, it's a really interesting thing that even when you're actively not taking a break and you're still working and you're doing things that are just not 100% like identically aligned with the building of more and more and more attention and fame. If you're making choices that are not just about that, it's funny that culturally, we as a culture are kind of unable to process that because so many people are not famous and imagine that they would like to be.
17:59 Speaker 04 Sure.
17:59 Speaker 05 And imagine that they would be good at it and sustain it forever.
18:02 Speaker 04 It's the people who do, like who who become famous through the career that they choose to do so. It's not a type of situation or even careers that are involved when people become become famous through them. It's not known for its longevity. Even like the people who are the most famous people in the world eventually gets you get, it gets to a point where it just, it's not sustainable.
18:23 Speaker 05 Yeah.
18:24 Speaker 04 And if you spend so much of your time trying to sustain it, you will be so miserable.
18:27 Speaker 05 If that's your goal, you're not gonna ever win.
18:29 Speaker 04 You're not, you're not going to win. And that's weird. It's like a weird, I recognize that. I don't have a desire. That's not at all why I enjoy this, this show. And having been on it for as long as I have. The most incredible thing to come out of it is that it has facilitated my ability to continue working. Where I choose to.
18:51 Speaker 05 Yeah.
18:51 Speaker 04 And that's rare and really, really cool. And that's why I'm excited to jump into stuff that is just kind of by me for me. That makes me feel very, very good and makes me feel like I'm growing and learning more about myself. And that's why I'm excited to jump into it. And I, there's even, but there is a weird little pull from like voices in your head of you have to make things that are projectable. Or you have to make things that are going to, to maintain this level of, of visibility post Stranger Things. And I really don't, I'm just, I don't understand why I would really want to do that. I don't have any real desire to pursue things for the purpose of that. Cause it's not like something I rather enjoy.
19:28 Speaker 05 Have you at any point during all of this, um, had a fear that, that you would, um, that people would forget about you? Or that you, that fame would fall off or that you need to maintain? Did you ever feel that and just came over, got over it? Or did you not ever feel it at all?
19:44 Speaker 04 I, yeah, I felt it. And I don't know why I felt that. Cause I think it was a, I think it's a weird, there's a correlation that you create with those two things, I guess, being mutually exclusive. Or it, the only, the way that for things to feel the same and the way for them to feel satisfying and, and be seen as, as you doing your job. To the best, I mean, to, to the greatest extent that you can is in relation to how many people see it or, or, or how visible it is.
20:19 Speaker 04 And it really, the day to day, well, doesn't necessarily really change for me either way. If I get to make things that I really, really like that nobody sees, and I think that's like the best case scenario for me personally. I think for like other people, it's like, I, it would be nice for people to see what is that I do. But really for me, the, it doesn't change a thing and that's cool to get used to. But there is, I think especially when you do it as a kid, when you're kind of instructed on what to value. It kind of is instilled over time. So there is a process of breaking that down and kind of coming to terms with the things that I was told to value. Aren't necessarily what I truthfully do. And that's been fun to unpack and discover.
20:59 Speaker 04 And it's just getting rid of the idea that, uh, if I don't engage with the attempts to be as visible as I can.
21:11 Speaker 05 Like visibility above all other things.
21:13 Speaker 04 Sure.
21:14 Speaker 05 Not being the goal.
21:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, if that's, if that's not the goal in the slightest, then I think I'll be probably the happiest that I could be in, in doing this. And I think that would be, yeah, that'd be lovely. But there is a weird little like self-conscious like, oh no, but other people I know and like are gonna, are, are being seen more, why not me? And so there's like, even something you don't want or something you don't like, when you see other people like, kind of going down that road of that, working out in that department, it's still a little bit like, uh, there's like a little bit of like a sting there. And I don't know why.
21:41 Speaker 05 Because it's the cultural, it's the societal anxiety that I think, I don't think those are your values based on what I know about you and on what you're saying. But the, there is a, it's similar to like internalized homophobia or misogyny or any of these other things where like, it does, it might not be your personal values, but there's a kind of like cultural, um, pressure that almost can seep into you through osmosis because you're swimming in it. Like we're swimming in a society that values that and tells us that that's our value. And so it gets really hard to be like, I, all the time will have a thought that I'm like, I'm like, oh, I'm annoyed that that person got this thing. And then I go, you don't want that.
22:21 Speaker 05 And then I go, wait, that's not your values, you know?
22:23 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:24 Speaker 05 But it's that math of being like, wait, that's not even me saying that, but the voice is still in there. And it's like, yeah, other voices are able to make noise in my head. It, the work, the, I think the work of figuring out like who we are and what we want is, is placing like which voice is your own and which voice is in there from someone else.
22:39 Speaker 04 For sure.
22:40 Speaker 05 But I feel like watching you, I've, I've watched you now, like I watched you on set, I experienced working with you on set. You always knew your lines, you were always on time, you're super polite and like nice to everybody. You're like a consummate professional.
22:52 Speaker 04 Thank you.
22:52 Speaker 05 And you handle, I've watched you handle like the festival and I've seen you handle the way that people approach you. And I just feel that you're very mature and capable and like competent at all of this.
23:05 Speaker 04 Oh, thank you very much.
23:06 Speaker 05 And I wonder, like, do you feel like you had to grow up really quick?
23:11 Speaker 04 Yeah. That was, there was a, there's a good conversation around it. It's like a weird ebb and flow of it of prioritizing a maintenance of innocence and a maintenance of childhood, but also understanding that if that were the case, then there will be problems that come up with that, that there will be growing pains there. And so there are certain situations where growing up quickly and kind of gaining a bit of a shell. Earlier is beneficial, just objectively.
23:43 Speaker 05 Yeah.
23:44 Speaker 04 And I think that's just understanding that, learning that there are so many people that just do not have your best interest at heart. And to develop the skills and tools to, to recognize what that looks like. And to let that hurt your feelings because that's a good thing and then move on from those people. That's not something you learn until your adulthood usually, and that's something you have to pick in this. When it's an industry that is kind of, I mean, so much of the conversation around kids in the industry has been dominated by how many adults have tried to take advantage of them through that process.
24:17 Speaker 05 Yeah.
24:18 Speaker 04 And that's just something that you're, what's really great about it. In the context of, of me and the other kids on the show was that we were told about this the minute we started working on it. It wasn't anything that we had to discover, anybody around us had to discover. The whole big wave of, of everything that happened over at Nickelodeon and like even like the Brat Pack days of hearing about even the, the little things like lack of education on set and lack of child labor laws, like that had all been sorted out. And then of course, there's so much that comes through about understanding that like in this industry. There was so much predatory behavior as well to look out for.
24:59 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:00 Speaker 04 And because we were aware to look out for these things and to have our parents close to us at all times. And to understand that as cool as everybody is and as fun as it is to engage in a professional, in a work, in a workplace and talk to adults, it feels like you're growing up faster. To keep everything kind of at arm's reach was, was inscribed very early. And of course, when you're 13, you ask why, and then they tell you why, like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll do that.
25:28 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:28 Speaker 04 And so that's weird to learn very early, but very necessary.
25:33 Speaker 04 To ensure our, our safety in that, in that type of environment.
25:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
25:36 Speaker 04 For sure. But like that, all the sets that I'd worked on, because everything was so, there was so much emphasis on ensuring safety. They always were, which is very nice.
25:46 Speaker 05 I feel like even, even just the. Like I had to grow up very quickly in a different way because I was poor and my mom was like working all the time. So it was like this different kind of thing, but I relate to people who got like successful at their career really early in this way that I'm like, I see similar traits that I'm like, I knew how to carry myself in adult spaces at an age that I, it was only beneficial to know these things, but I probably shouldn't have known them.
26:11 Speaker 04 Sure.
26:12 Speaker 05 And I think like, a lot of it nets out positive. Like I think there's so many positive things about, look, you're 23 years old and you're like, are running a massive fucking business. You know, you have, you have like your pick of creative projects. You know how you like to work. You like, you show up on time, you know your lines. Like these are things that like, a lot of people getting a job at 23 wouldn't fucking do. You know what I mean? That you would, a lot of, a lot of us would be like, well, he's late again and he doesn't know his lines. You know what I mean?
26:36 Speaker 04 Right.
26:37 Speaker 05 So a lot of it nets out positive, but it is an interesting thing to, to get so much attention at the age that you got it and have handled it so positively. I just feel like that must've been a crazy experience.
26:46 Speaker 04 I think so, but it's all, it's the only experience I had.
26:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:49 Speaker 04 So it's not like there's any reference point outside of it. There's not, it's not like I can really compare and contrast because it's just the experience I lived in, especially when you're, you normalize everything when you're a kid. And that's why breaking down so many things that were not normal is so hard to do in your adulthood because the whole point of being a kid and protecting yourself is normalizing things that aren't normal around you.
27:11 Speaker 05 Yeah.
27:12 Speaker 04 And so that's why it never really felt, as much as people told me and all of us how crazy of a situation it was that we were in, we were always around each other and were able to, I guess, relate to each other or just, we never really had conversations about, oh man, this is weird, right? Cause it was, it wasn't us and it just didn't really, I think it was weirder probably for the older members of the cast, probably the teenagers who started the show at 23.
27:39 Speaker 05 Yeah.
27:40 Speaker 04 I think like, yeah, Natalia was like 19, Joe, Joe Keery was like 23, I think, when he started the show, probably around the same age. So they had that lived experience of becoming an adult and then a sudden shift. And that I think is probably way more of a boat rock than.
27:56 Speaker 04 Doing it at 13.
27:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
27:58 Speaker 04 Weirdly enough.
27:58 Speaker 05 What do you think is that you, I mean, that was really interesting, what you said about normalizing things that aren't normal. I feel like that's a really good thing for all of us to think about in terms of just like a lot of things that are happening in general in the world right now.
28:11 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:11 Speaker 05 Like what we get comfortable with, even though it shouldn't be comfortable.
28:13 Speaker 04 For sure.
28:14 Speaker 05 What do you think is the most abnormal thing that became normal for you during that time? Is there anything that that like sticks in your mind when you say that? Or are you just kind of like general as a?
28:21 Speaker 04 I think just intense, like people pleasing to adults in a weird way.
28:30 Speaker 04 I think there's this mentality, and I think it comes from a place of meaning. Well, I, people are way more aware of their boundaries now with me in my twenties than they were when I was 13, which seems odd. You think that anytime you were interacting with somebody who was a child, who was obviously like, the first thought is like, all right, where's your parent? Can I ask them if I can say hi and talk about your show? But there was a weird mentality of like, ah, yeah, get over here, kid. Nah, you're fine. Yeah. You want to take this, this picture with me real quick?
29:00 Speaker 05 Right, yeah.
29:02 Speaker 04 Which is a little bit weird. And of course, I was like, yes, of course, of course. And anytime I'd say no, there was always like a you little shit mentality. I remember that that happened once or twice. I remember I was in like Denver for a convention and I was eating dinner with my dad and somebody had come over and asked for a picture. And I remember I was like, I, I said, I'm not going to do one right now just because if I take one here, then sometimes it, because it's a very busy place and I've already like been clocked elsewhere that usually when I take one, then it's like, okay, great. Then he's willing to take.
29:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
29:34 Speaker 04 Pictures. So other people come up. And I remember like, but let me come to you when I finish up my meal before I leave. And then I, yeah, I always felt like, because she was around my age at the time, too. And then her mom came over and just like cursed me out and.
29:52 Speaker 05 Whoa.
29:52 Speaker 04 Yeah. Was like, you are not famous enough to say no to a picture. Who the fuck do you think you are? That type of thing. My dad did not take like nicely to it.
30:01 Speaker 05 Yeah. I can't imagine that was received.
30:04 Speaker 04 No, it wasn't received well at all. Yeah, I've never seen my dad closer to just like drop kicking a stranger in the head. And yeah, it was so embarrassing. And obviously in retrospect, they are in the wrong. But ever since then, for years after that, I always said yes to pictures after that.
30:23 Speaker 05 Yeah.
30:23 Speaker 04 And even in situations where I probably could have been like, it's not the best time. If I, even like now, I'll be running painfully late to something that I'm already late for, and someone will stop me. And I think it's very much a good time to be like, I really wish I could. I just have to keep on running because I'm already late for something. And even now, I'm like, okay, yeah. And I do, I always like to, there's not, I don't have an aversion to doing it at all. Cause it's the only job, and it's one of the only jobs in the world where people actively stop you on a day and say, I appreciate what you do for a living. That's really cool. It's made a difference in my day to day. And that's something that's incredible to hear. It's very, very rare.
30:58 Speaker 05 Yeah.
30:58 Speaker 04 That, cause everybody's job makes a difference to everybody, but it's rare that people hear that on a daily basis. And that's really, really special. So I want to acknowledge that and make that interaction special for somebody who may like the show. So I very rarely, I don't usually say no to pictures at all, but like in those weird little times where it may not be the best time to do it, I get so anxious with the idea. I'm like, I really hope that a mom doesn't curse me out again.
31:24 Speaker 05 Well, that's insane.
31:25 Speaker 04 It was so my, yeah, that was tough.
31:31 Speaker 05 April 15th, tax deadline is coming fast. That's my new take on it, like confrontational. But don't worry.
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33:11 Speaker 05 we've all used the same excuses when it comes to avoiding seeing a therapist. Things like it's out of my budget. I don't know if my insurance even covers it. Or that classic, what if I can't find someone who's a good fit for me? Lucky for y'all, our friends at Rula are here to make all those worries disappear by making getting into therapy easier than ever. Be honest. How many times have you thought, I should probably look into getting a therapist? And then you just didn't do it. Plenty of people are in the exact same boat. Okay. And Rula is here to help. They make it incredibly easy to get quality care with therapists who take your insurance and who actually have openings with 93% of patients reporting symptom improvements after signing up. And the signup part? With Rula, this genuinely takes like five minutes.
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35:24 Speaker 05 Okay, we need to talk about this.
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37:19 Speaker 05 Well, but again, though, that to me, that to me is an illustration of that thing of like, this is, again, someone who has not experienced that level, a level of attention on, at scale, that we might call fame. They haven't experienced fame. They imagine that they would like it and they imagine they would do it better than people that are doing it now. But they go, I would never, they go, if I were you, I would never say no to that picture. That's what's going on in the brain.
37:41 Speaker 04 And that's the mentality I had jumping in. Yeah. I was like, oh, I'm being presented with this. Yeah. And I keep hearing, I keep hearing stories about how people are just dicks. Once this becomes a part of their life. I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. So I spent so much of my time, I guess, trying to prove to myself that I was not gonna do that. And that's been a weird adjustment, too. Of like, recently, I'm like, it's okay if someone doesn't necessarily like me in a specific interaction. That's fine. If it's, of course, I'm never actively going to try to be a dick to somebody. Right. Like, ever in a day to day. It's just, I just don't enjoy that. That's not, that inherently kind of scares me. Yeah. How do you, I'm sure that must have been
38:21 Speaker 04 a pretty sudden shift on your end for it becoming pretty intense very quickly.
38:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, 100%. It's only getting weirder by the day.
38:30 Speaker 04 For sure.
38:31 Speaker 05 I
38:31 Speaker 04 Do you have a moment that you remember of being like, oh shit?
38:34 Speaker 05 Yeah, there are like little ones over time, because at first it was just like, it was kind of like an if you know, you know, type of thing. Whereas like, if I'm in Brooklyn or LA or Chicago, and I go to a place where there's gay people, one or two people are gonna want a picture.
38:47 Speaker 04 Cool.
38:47 Speaker 05 And that was like, I was like, cool, no worries.
38:49 Speaker 04 That's like, that's like a sweet spot, right?
38:51 Speaker 05 Totally manageable. 100% a sweet spot.
38:53 Speaker 04 Oh, this is awesome. Like, every now and again.
38:55 Speaker 05 You can kind of turn it on and turn it off. It's like, if I'm in like rural fucking Kansas at a gas station, I'm safe. I'm good to be normal. And then if I want, if I really want some attention today, it's like, well, just get to Chicago and get to that gay coffee shop. You know what I mean?
39:07 Speaker 04 Like, when you went home, because you're Kansas City, yeah?
39:09 Speaker 05 Right.
39:09 Speaker 04 Was it kind of a haven of being able, like, I'm
39:13 Speaker 05 It still kind of is. I mean, people don't fully leave me alone in Kansas City, but it's so respectful. And I will say, like, I was just, Trixie Mattel and I were just in Kansas City at the same time. And I was like, taking her around and trying to socialize her like a sick dog, you know?
39:28 Speaker 04 Yes, of course.
39:29 Speaker 05 Teach her how, what it's like to be around people, you know? These drag queens don't know how to act in public. So I was trying, I was like, take the makeup off, let's shake some hands, let's, you know, I'm trying, I told her, please and thank you, that was new for her. Better, she doesn't bite anymore.
39:43 Speaker 04 That's good.
39:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, she doesn't bite anymore. And leash training, we're working on.
39:50 Speaker 05 But I was, yeah, I was taking her out for walks and people were, yeah, it was just like, it was a very respectful, like, even when people did, it was very much an acknowledgement of like, I'm so sorry, I know I'm bothering you, I love your stuff. And then a quick like-
40:03 Speaker 04 And that's 99.9% of interactions.
40:05 Speaker 05 It was really sweet. I've gotten, I will say, as, as things have upticked in intensity, I have started to set some boundaries and I never thought I would have any.
40:13 Speaker 04 Right.
40:14 Speaker 05 But getting cornered in bathrooms is a new thing.
40:16 Speaker 04 Bathroom's is tough.
40:17 Speaker 05 Bathroom's is weird as fuck.
40:18 Speaker 04 Bathroom's is weird as fuck. You ever get a shoulder tap at the urinal?
40:20 Speaker 05 Yes.
40:21 Speaker 04 Yes, I've gotten a shoulder tap at the urinal.
40:22 Speaker 05 Dick in hand. Could I get a photo? I love your work.
40:28 Speaker 05 And also, I'm gay, so like, be careful.
40:32 Speaker 05 You start tapping me at the urinal, I'm like, I don't know what day we're having. I'm ready to have that day, but we need to make sure.
40:37 Speaker 04 Airport.
40:38 Speaker 05 Yeah, truly. Chase down the street is another thing, like, that's been happening more and more.
40:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
40:42 Speaker 05 I don't like chase down the street, please don't chase me.
40:44 Speaker 04 I don't like, because I'm not a fast runner, so it's not like I have an option.
40:47 Speaker 05 You're gonna catch me.
40:49 Speaker 04 That's what's scary.
40:50 Speaker 05 Hey, you'll get there. You know, it's like-
40:53 Speaker 04 They have the power in that jet fully.
40:55 Speaker 05 You know, in, in horror movies where the, the killer only really walks at a brisk speed and you can't seem to catch him? You will catch me like that. You didn't need to pick up your pace at all, you're gonna get me. Yeah, that stuff. So I've started to be a little like, or if I'm having like a, a private conversation, I've started to be a little better about being like, thank you, that's so sweet, I'm in the middle of a kind of private thing right now, but have a great night.
41:14 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:14 Speaker 05 And the thing you said, I've, I've really employed around being like, hey, not right now, but on my way out, I'll come find you. That's been really helpful to be like, I'm not gonna disrupt my whole flow of being in this room right now and like, open up a gate, but on my way out, I'll come over and do it. But what, you know, it's just an interesting, it is an interesting thing, because the thing you said about people, it being the only job where people tell you they like your work, it means the world to me that anyone cares about what I do.
41:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:39 Speaker 05 And then also, I have to, if I- I just feel like if you engage with it too much, not you, not you, not you, Roy, you, Caleb, I feel like if I, Caleb, engage with it too much and think about the number of people who watch and listen to me too much, I will become an insane person. And I am trying so hard to maintain normalcy and a connection to the real world that I'm just like, I almost view it as like, help me out, like, help me, help me maintain some normalcy. And if I express a boundary, like, consider helping me out, you know?
42:12 Speaker 04 Do you, do you look at the numbers? Do you look at the engagement?
42:15 Speaker 05 No, but I, it's known, you know what I mean? Like, I know, like, I know about how many people this show reaches a month. I know about how many people have seen the HBO special. I know, like, you know, I know when I go on someone else's show and it's, if it happens to be one of their most watched episodes or something, I can, or I understand even too, like, when people come up to me, my approaches are interesting because a lot of them have a different thing they're coming up for.
42:39 Speaker 04 Sure.
42:40 Speaker 05 That they're like, I loved you on so and so show, or I loved your HBO special. So I can actually tell by what they're saying to me where they're coming to me from.
42:47 Speaker 04 That's pretty special.
42:48 Speaker 05 Do you know what I mean?
42:49 Speaker 04 That's really, is that not really cool?
42:50 Speaker 05 It's cool, but it's weird. Cause they're getting different, like, a person, it's funny, a person who comes up to me because they loved me on Z Way is very different from a person who comes up to me because they loved me on Royal Court.
43:01 Speaker 04 Sure.
43:02 Speaker 05 You know, and so I'm, it's almost like I start to think about the interaction I'm about to have.
43:06 Speaker 04 Yeah.
43:06 Speaker 05 You know?
43:07 Speaker 04 That's interesting.
43:08 Speaker 05 Yeah.
43:08 Speaker 04 Does that make you change the way that you approach the rest of that conversation?
43:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, cause I know what they want. You know what I mean? Like, if they love me from Z Way, they want me to be kind of mean to them.
43:19 Speaker 05 They want me to be a little, they want me to be like, nice shirt, you know, or something like that. Like, that's what they think I am.
43:25 Speaker 04 Yeah, right, right.
43:26 Speaker 05 You know?
43:26 Speaker 04 And that's fun.
43:28 Speaker 05 It's cool. It's cool. Okay, what's so true to you?
43:32 Speaker 04 Oh, man.
43:33 Speaker 05 Do you have a so true for this episode?
43:36 Speaker 05 Dude, I have to tell you, do not feel any way about it. There is something about this show, nobody comes with one. Do you know what it is?
43:45 Speaker 04 I have one that's fun. I think that Zemeckis's Christmas Carol is objectively a perfect movie.
43:50 Speaker 05 Whoa. Whoa.
43:55 Speaker 05 Gaten, you're gonna get cancelled. Okay, tell me about Zemeckis's Christmas Carol.
44:00 Speaker 04 This is the one with Jim Carrey.
44:01 Speaker 05 Yes.
44:02 Speaker 04 With the really awkward looking mocap before, I think, it was like the Polar Express style motion capture in context of a Christmas Carol. And most people like, it's just disturbing and it looks weird and it's off putting. And it's just, I tried to like introduce my kids to this story and they just left terrified.
44:24 Speaker 04 The ghost of Christmas present like disintegrates into like a laughing skeleton.
44:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
44:28 Speaker 04 And, but dude, that story is terrifying.
44:30 Speaker 05 Yeah.
44:31 Speaker 04 That story is about how insanely guttingly terrifying it is for this dude. And that's why he changed his life.
44:36 Speaker 05 Yeah, ghosts visit you to tell you that you're living your life wrong.
44:39 Speaker 04 And that you're gonna go to hell.
44:41 Speaker 05 It's not an upbeat tale.
44:42 Speaker 04 That's what it is. It's like, if you don't stop doing this, you're gonna, you're going to hell. I guarantee that you are.
44:49 Speaker 05 My kids couldn't get on board with it.
44:51 Speaker 04 Like, I feel like we were like weirdly watered down with the Mickey Christmas Carol.
44:56 Speaker 05 Yeah.
44:57 Speaker 04 And like goofy coming in with the chains and, you know what I'm talking about?
45:00 Speaker 05 Yeah, 100%.
45:01 Speaker 04 Funny, it's like cute and cool and it looks fun. And like the Muppets one is great and it's a classic story, but at its core, it is an absolute night. It's literally a nightmare.
45:10 Speaker 05 Harrowing nightmare.
45:11 Speaker 04 It's an absolute nightmare.
45:12 Speaker 05 Yeah.
45:13 Speaker 04 And that movie looks like it. And I'm obsessed with it.
45:16 Speaker 01 Ugh, I hate Mondays. King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?
45:19 Speaker 00 Uh, Taylor Hanson? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
45:25 Speaker 02 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
45:27 Speaker 00 But Taylor Hanson's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.
45:31 Speaker 02 Taylor Hanson? Nice. Try one. Mmm.
45:38 Speaker 03 King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.
45:46 Speaker 04 Jim Carrey plays...
45:49 Speaker 04 Scrooge and all three ghosts.
45:51 Speaker 05 Yeah, well, he's a.
45:52 Speaker 04 And he's incredible.
45:53 Speaker 05 Yeah.
45:53 Speaker 04 Does he play Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come? There's no lines. I don't know if it's his body doing the pointing. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know.
46:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:03 Speaker 04 It's crazy. There's some things that don't really work. There's like a crazy sequence in The Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come where you get shrunken down and you get like surfs on an icicle.
46:13 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:13 Speaker 04 It's bizarre and weird, but it is actually the only time that I think that like that book scares me and that movie scares me. And so I I relate that to be like, they did this the right way.
46:26 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:27 Speaker 04 And the cast is crazy. The cast is awesome.
46:29 Speaker 05 Who's all in it? I don't think I know.
46:30 Speaker 04 Gary Oldman is in it.
46:31 Speaker 05 Oh, fuck.
46:31 Speaker 04 And, yeah.
46:32 Speaker 05 I love him.
46:33 Speaker 04 Robin Wright's in it as well.
46:34 Speaker 05 Love her. Of course she's in it.
46:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:35 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:36 Speaker 04 And I think it's awesome.
46:38 Speaker 05 Yeah.
46:38 Speaker 04 Gary Oldman's in it.
46:39 Speaker 05 Gary Oldman?
46:40 Speaker 04 Gary Oldman plays Jacob Marley.
46:42 Speaker 05 Why the fuck didn't I know Gary Oldman is in this?
46:44 Speaker 04 This movie rocks. And the thing is, is that I thought that I would talk to film buffs about this and be like, all right, let's get together. This movie, this movie rocks, right?
46:53 Speaker 05 You're convening clandestine meetings of film buffs, being like, just so we're all on the same page.
46:58 Speaker 04 This movie rocks and everybody says I'm insane.
47:01 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:01 Speaker 04 I don't think I'm insane.
47:06 Speaker 05 I don't think I'm insane. Let's put that on the record.
47:09 Speaker 04 I think in this context, I think people don't give it a shot because it's like, maybe the animation doesn't hold up. But how many amazing movies don't hold up visually?
47:19 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:20 Speaker 04 That we don't discount those movies for.
47:22 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:22 Speaker 04 Like Empire Strikes Back doesn't look up to par. It's still a perfect movie.
47:26 Speaker 05 Yeah, well, you love Star Wars.
47:27 Speaker 04 I love Star Wars.
47:28 Speaker 05 You're not kidding around about Star Wars.
47:29 Speaker 04 I don't. I don't fuck around about Star Wars in the slightest.
47:31 Speaker 05 Yeah. What? What is your favorite of the Star Wars movies?
47:33 Speaker 04 I know that Empire Strikes Back is the best movie.
47:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:36 Speaker 04 But my favorite one to watch growing up is Return of the Jedi.
47:39 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:39 Speaker 04 I, it's just like the most like fun space adventure vibe.
47:43 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:43 Speaker 04 But I remember, did you see David Kornswet talk about this on Royal Court?
47:48 Speaker 05 No.
47:49 Speaker 04 He talked about his order in which he likes to watch Star Wars and I had this. I agreed with him wholeheartedly.
47:55 Speaker 05 Yeah.
47:56 Speaker 04 And I remember I was like, I've never heard anybody else mention that this is the way to do it, where you go four, five. One, two, three, six.
48:04 Speaker 05 Four, five, one, two, three, six.
48:06 Speaker 04 Or some people say you can skip Phantom Menace.
48:08 Speaker 05 In that order. And which one's that?
48:09 Speaker 04 That's the first one. That's that. Well, the first one chronologically. That's Darth Maul, Krygon Jin.
48:13 Speaker 05 Four, five, two, three, six. Then it would be the sequence?
48:16 Speaker 04 Yeah, four, five, two, three, six. This is for people who have never seen Star Wars before because you still get the twist in Empire Strikes Back, the classic.
48:24 Speaker 05 Yeah.
48:25 Speaker 04 I can say it's his dad, right?
48:27 Speaker 05 Totally.
48:29 Speaker 05 No, I think you're totally safe. The window has expired on spoiling that.
48:32 Speaker 04 I think it's fine. It's been 50 years. Yeah, I think it's fine.
48:35 Speaker 05 Dude, speaking of, one time, I think during COVID, I got on a big kick. I watched every single minute, no phone, very focused of The Crown on Netflix.
48:45 Speaker 04 Oh, it's great.
48:46 Speaker 05 Okay. And I posted about.
48:48 Speaker 04 It's great.
48:48 Speaker 05 It's incredible.
48:49 Speaker 04 It's incredible.
48:49 Speaker 05 Every performance legendary.
48:51 Speaker 04 Insane.
48:51 Speaker 05 And I posted something on Instagram about something that happened one of the episodes. And someone legitimately got mad at me and were like, no spoilers. And I was like, hey,
48:59 Speaker 04 It's history.
49:00 Speaker 05 This happened.
49:02 Speaker 05 I'm like, I can't spoil an event of the royal family. This occurred.
49:07 Speaker 04 This infuriates me. Do you remember, like, I know that there's a great community around it and like, there's, this is why the show works so well. And it's why, like, I love when theater kids engage with shows and make it their whole personality. But I was always so fuming when everyone was like, talking about Hamilton saying, I'm Team Angelica. I'm like, you can't be Team Angelica. These are real people.
49:31 Speaker 04 What do you mean you're Team Angelica? This is a historical event.
49:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
49:35 Speaker 04 What do you mean?
49:36 Speaker 05 No, you can't ship this. There's no shipping.
49:39 Speaker 04 There's no shipping, Angelica.
49:41 Speaker 05 That's so fucking funny.
49:43 Speaker 04 He married Eliza. That's, that's historically what happened. And you can't be like, man, I just wish that they ended up together. What are you talking about?
49:51 Speaker 05 There was no writers' room.
49:52 Speaker 04 That's not how this goes.
49:53 Speaker 05 This is a thing that happened.
49:54 Speaker 04 How do you think that that family would like, just, I also think about that of what do we think founding fathers would look at, at Hamilton and be like, that's like the story that's, the way it's being expressed. I think it would give them like an aneurysm.
50:06 Speaker 05 Of course.
50:07 Speaker 04 You know that that, like, the whole thing of what do you show Victorian child to kill them on sight?
50:11 Speaker 05 Yeah.
50:12 Speaker 04 Is that the saying?
50:13 Speaker 05 Oh, sure. Totally. Yeah. If you showed a, this would make a Victorian child's head explode or something like that. Yeah, yeah.
50:19 Speaker 04 Something like that.
50:19 Speaker 05 Hamilton for the founding fathers.
50:20 Speaker 04 Hamilton for the founding fathers.
50:21 Speaker 05 Dude, I hope I get to come back and see some shit after I'm gone.
50:24 Speaker 04 Dude, fly on the wall.
50:25 Speaker 05 I want to be fly on the wall.
50:26 Speaker 04 It's my girlfriend and her best friend, our best friends, like, whole. Like belief in the afterlife. They're like, I can believe in anything and want anything. It's fly on the wall.
50:39 Speaker 05 Do you want, when you die, do you want a celebration of life or mourning?
50:44 Speaker 04 I say to be, to bring levity, I want celebration of life, but I'd be bummed if some people didn't cry.
50:50 Speaker 05 I want mourning. I want mourning. If I died tomorrow, my ideal is that every person in this room, including you, who I just met, does not recover. And I mean, ever. I mean, never recovers.
51:04 Speaker 04 Lifelong.
51:05 Speaker 05 I mean, if you guys out with me by 50 years, I hope on the, I hope 50 years from now, on this day, of the day that I hope you wake up, just on a random Tuesday, I hope you wake up unable to go to work. I hope you are so devastated by my loss. Celebration of life? I don't think so.
51:20 Speaker 04 No, I don't think so.
51:21 Speaker 05 No.
51:21 Speaker 04 No, no, no, no.
51:22 Speaker 05 No dancing at my, no dancing, no remembrances, no funny stories. Weeping tears, mourning, black veils. Estate funeral. I want everyone, I want flags at half mass for eternity.
51:35 Speaker 04 This is good.
51:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
51:37 Speaker 04 It's like in every movie, every like movie where there's a funeral sequence where you see all the black umbrellas like open up and then the rain starts to fall. How many times are we gonna do that in a funeral movie?
51:46 Speaker 05 And I want it in real life.
51:47 Speaker 04 And you want it in real life.
51:47 Speaker 05 I want that for Caleb.
51:48 Speaker 04 This is good to know.
51:49 Speaker 05 I want that bad. Please, Gaten, promise me you'll make this happen.
51:52 Speaker 04 I'll make sure. I mean, that's crazy. If you died, I'm the first one to text you like, hey, guys, by the way.
51:58 Speaker 05 Caleb specifically asked me.
52:00 Speaker 04 I don't know if you remember the episode. Not to be a pain, I know you guys are going through a lot.
52:05 Speaker 05 Yeah, you text my mom. You're like, hey, girl, saw you posting pretty jovially on Instagram.
52:11 Speaker 04 He doesn't want you to.
52:12 Speaker 05 It's only been a few years since we lost him. Maybe knock it off. No, I want mourning. I want mourning.
52:20 Speaker 04 I do too, a little.
52:21 Speaker 05 You believe in reincarnation?
52:22 Speaker 04 What's your? I would like to.
52:24 Speaker 05 Do you have a faith? What is your faith?
52:25 Speaker 04 I'm pretty pessimistic about this, this thing.
52:27 Speaker 05 Thank you.
52:27 Speaker 04 At the moment.
52:32 Speaker 04 I wish I wasn't.
52:33 Speaker 05 I'm gonna tell you on this thing, yeah.
52:34 Speaker 04 Because also, there is a vibe, I guess, I guess I'm an atheist, but that's such a like an eye roll of a thing to say you are.
52:43 Speaker 05 No.
52:43 Speaker 04 But I also don't want to discount or imply that I am like rolling my eyes or scoffing at people who are very intensely faithful or spiritual.
52:53 Speaker 05 No, because their money is green.
52:56 Speaker 05 Still stream pizza movie.
52:57 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please, please.
52:58 Speaker 05 If you're a devout Catholic, still stream pizza movie. I'm not rolling my eyes at you.
53:02 Speaker 04 For sure.
53:06 Speaker 04 But I get in this conversation specifically a lot. And also, it's an awkward conversation to have because I've, I've lost people who, and it like that has made people in my family more religious. And I've lost people like suddenly my cousin passed and he was only 19. And that weirdly like that ignited some, some faith and some, some, I guess, more talk of, of, of God and, and love and stuff like that amongst family members. And then for me, I just like, it didn't like spark that. And so that's awkward to kind of when like discussions come up. And it's not, it's rarely discussed. Like I've talked about this like in public settings. And I'm like, oh man, I hope my grandma's not bummed.
53:44 Speaker 05 Yeah.
53:45 Speaker 04 That that's the way I feel about it.
53:47 Speaker 05 Were you raised in something?
53:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, I was raised pretty religious.
53:49 Speaker 05 Which one?
53:50 Speaker 04 Uh, generally Protestants, I guess. I, I went to Methodist churches.
53:55 Speaker 05 Yeah.
53:55 Speaker 04 I went to a Methodist church growing up, but I think because that was closer to where my house was and my mom was friends with the people in choir.
54:02 Speaker 05 Yeah, obsessed with her.
54:03 Speaker 04 Right.
54:04 Speaker 05 She was like, I like the choir and it's close to the house. Guess what? We just became Methodist.
54:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, she was really, she was religious growing up. She, she went on traveling, um, she, she traveled to Europe once on not a missionary situation. She wasn't like preaching, but she was with a musical group that would have like, like Christian based music to crowds of people in like Latvia. I don't, maybe that might be, it's pretty cra- it's pretty cool. I don't ask her about this way. I do not ask her about this enough.
54:38 Speaker 05 Yeah.
54:38 Speaker 04 That's a crazy situation.
54:39 Speaker 05 Do you know what? I have advice for you.
54:41 Speaker 04 Shoot.
54:41 Speaker 05 I have one piece of friend to friend advice for you. Have you ever, do you know the New York Times questions to fall in love?
54:46 Speaker 04 Mm-mm.
54:47 Speaker 05 The question set? It's like 37 questions or something. It's in brackets of intimacy. I've done it with many people that I love in my life. It's meant for partners.
54:56 Speaker 04 I have heard about this.
54:57 Speaker 05 It's really good.
54:58 Speaker 04 Yeah.
54:58 Speaker 05 It's really good. The third bracket, there's some things that like when I did it with my grandma and my mom that you skipped because it's meant for partners. So it's like, hold hands and look into each other's eyes and like that part you don't do. Because it's meant for like physical intimacy, but you skip those ones with your, anyone older in your life that you love, grandparents, mom. The next time you get a chance, sit down with them for like two or three hours, go on a long drive, sit in the house, something, ask these questions. Things came up with, I am very close to my mommy and my grandma. I thought I knew everything about them. Things came up that I have never heard them talk about.
55:29 Speaker 04 Oh, it sounds like.
55:30 Speaker 05 Never.
55:30 Speaker 04 Weirdly, that sounds like so much fun.
55:32 Speaker 05 It's amazing.
55:32 Speaker 04 That sounds amazing.
55:33 Speaker 05 It's amazing. And I learned things about both of them. I feel like I understand there have been multiple times since then. This has been a couple of years ago that I've done it with both of them. There have been multiple times that we've been in some kind of dynamic that, you know, whatever, we're just in our relationship. That I have remembered something they've said and I've been like, this is where this is, this is why you do this. This is why you're like this. This is why.
55:52 Speaker 04 So interesting.
55:52 Speaker 05 This is why we're not connecting on this. You know what I'm saying?
55:54 Speaker 04 Yeah. I would love to do this with my mom because she's had a crazy life.
55:58 Speaker 05 Yeah.
55:59 Speaker 04 Yeah, for sure. She's had, or just like the craziest type of upbringing and one that I respect a ton. Cause there was so much in her childhood, growing up that was like, it felt like the world was just out to like kick her ass.
56:13 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:13 Speaker 04 Her and her brother. And growing up, it's another thing you normalize even hearing stories about this, about like, she was raised by her grandparents because her parents just weren't in the picture. And I was like, oh, that's normal. And I grew up later, I'm like, oh, that's not normal in the slightest.
56:29 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:30 Speaker 04 That's so nuts, especially because my dad is like, had like the polar opposite situation. His parents had him when they were 18 and finished having all four of their kids by 23.
56:39 Speaker 05 Wow.
56:39 Speaker 04 And are still married today.
56:41 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:41 Speaker 04 And I have like a lot of cousins and we're very, very close on that side. So they had like the polar opposite situation. And it's so cool to see both sides of that, but I never.
56:49 Speaker 05 That's also not normal.
56:50 Speaker 04 That's also not normal.
56:51 Speaker 05 That's like, that's not the norm or the.
56:53 Speaker 04 So interesting.
56:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, the most.
56:54 Speaker 04 Polar opposite types of situations.
56:56 Speaker 05 Yeah.
56:57 Speaker 04 And that's why I think it's so interesting how they connected when they first were married. My parents aren't married anymore, but they, when I was so, I'm so curious as to how those two opposite situations kind of attracted towards each other.
57:09 Speaker 05 Yeah.
57:09 Speaker 04 And yeah.
57:10 Speaker 05 You have kids?
57:11 Speaker 04 I think so, yeah.
57:12 Speaker 05 Yeah?
57:12 Speaker 04 Yeah, I do.
57:14 Speaker 05 Oh, I love that.
57:14 Speaker 04 I, for sure. I don't have any plans on it for a good chunk of time.
57:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, like not six, seven months.
57:20 Speaker 04 Yeah, right.
57:22 Speaker 05 Like, enjoy yourself, relax, be young.
57:24 Speaker 04 Enjoy my time, for sure. Take a break, for sure.
57:25 Speaker 05 By 25 years.
57:26 Speaker 04 I'm gonna be yay.
57:29 Speaker 04 A few months, for sure. Yeah, I definitely, I've always said, I'm like, yeah, it's like a given. But I don't want to approach it with the mindset of, oh, that's a given. Because I think that's how most people approach bringing children into the world and bringing new lives into the world is, oh, that's kind of the process of growing up and, and living life. And that's like a, a stepping stone and kind of just a rite of passage. But I think that there's a lot of thought that can go into understanding, like, do I have my shit figured out enough to be able to realistically raise a functioning human being and do it well?
58:07 Speaker 05 Yeah.
58:08 Speaker 04 So, yeah, I would love to. Not yet.
58:10 Speaker 05 No, not right now.
58:11 Speaker 04 Not yet.
58:11 Speaker 05 Not right now.
58:12 Speaker 04 Not right now.
58:12 Speaker 05 Do you feel generally happy and optimistic about the world? Is that your outlook? What's going on? How are you feeling about everything? Crazy time to be alive.
58:21 Speaker 04 Crazy time to be alive.
58:22 Speaker 05 What are you thinking?
58:23 Speaker 04 That's the go-to.
58:23 Speaker 05 That's the go-to.
58:24 Speaker 04 I almost spilled my coffee. I am individually a very happy person, but I don't want to just be like, yeah, life's fucking awesome. Because it's also, I'm a very happy person because I'm in the luckiest situation that human beings are in.
58:45 Speaker 05 Yeah.
58:45 Speaker 04 And I recognize that fully. Like, there's like, the amount of, there's just an overwhelming bucket load of privilege that comes along with me being able to acknowledge the fact that I get to live happily and feel safe every day. And I don't think that discounts my ability. I still feel like I have, like, I can feel comfy being like, yeah, I'm very happy and I-
59:06 Speaker 05 Many people have that and don't feel happy.
59:08 Speaker 04 For sure, for sure.
59:09 Speaker 05 So it's still an accomplishment?
59:10 Speaker 04 It's for sure, it's an accomplishment. But I do, I don't want to be preachy in the sense of, of talking about, like, and you can do it too. Whereas like, that's insane to think about.
59:21 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:21 Speaker 04 I am a straight white guy who is financially secure at 23.
59:26 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:26 Speaker 04 In the United States, which is-
59:29 Speaker 05 Not bad.
59:30 Speaker 04 Not bad.
59:33 Speaker 05 Not bad, huh?
59:34 Speaker 04 As far as it goes.
59:35 Speaker 05 Shit's pretty good.
59:37 Speaker 04 As far as the cards are dealt, that's a, that's a pretty.
59:40 Speaker 05 A lot of people.
59:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, like I recognize fully that's like, I can't just be like, what are people talking about?
59:45 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:46 Speaker 04 This place rocks.
59:47 Speaker 05 Like, everyone, cheer up.
59:51 Speaker 05 No, I'm.
59:52 Speaker 04 Like, I'm fully aware that it would be insane of me for my life's message to be like, why don't we just smile more?
59:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
59:58 Speaker 04 Because, yeah, that's insane. That would be insane of me.
1:00:01 Speaker 05 But, like I said, there are, there are plenty of people that have those, the, there are people that have the circumstances that you have, or at least some of them, and do not find themselves to be happy.
1:00:10 Speaker 04 And I know that's not like, yeah, there's, that's not the key to, there's like, the situation being on paper as good as it can get. That's not necessarily the key to being necessarily a very happy person. Cause that does not guarantee that in the slightest.
1:00:22 Speaker 05 I feel the same way you do. I talk about being happy all the time and, and, and trying to have fun and enjoy life. And I increasingly, it's funny because it's taken a turn for me just in the last three years. When I was first talking about that stuff on stage, it genuinely did feel kind of like revolutionary because I was poor and no one cared about my work.
1:00:39 Speaker 05 So I was like, the fact that I'm happy is crazy. And then as that has changed, I'm like, this is starting to hit a little different, I guess.
1:00:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:00:46 Speaker 05 But it is, I think there, you have to be a some level of optimistic to intentionally want children. To intentionally, even to say like, yeah, I think I'll have kids.
1:00:53 Speaker 04 Right.
1:00:54 Speaker 05 And I'm always interested in that because I have so many friends that are so smart and doing well. And they make a good living and they're safe and comfortable. They have a house that has running water and, and electricity. And these are privileges. And they are like, fuck no. I want nothing to do with that.
1:01:08 Speaker 04 Wow.
1:01:08 Speaker 05 So I'm always interested in people who do because I'm like, well, that's interesting. That's, there's some level of optimism involved in that, I feel.
1:01:14 Speaker 04 I obviously, I would like there to be a legitimate reason. I would like that to be normalized.
1:01:20 Speaker 05 Optimism?
1:01:21 Speaker 04 Optimism, but when it comes, I think for sure optimism, but I mean, in, in the decision making to have kids. But a lot of times it's not a decision. A lot of times it's just like, oh damn, all right, we're in this situation. We're going for it. We're going for it.
1:01:33 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:01:33 Speaker 04 And that's, that's how I came along. That's how both of my siblings came along was like, oh shit.
1:01:38 Speaker 05 Whoops.
1:01:39 Speaker 04 Here we go.
1:01:41 Speaker 04 And I understand that that's probably the maj, the vast majority of how people are brought to this earth.
1:01:47 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:01:48 Speaker 04 Damn, I should have wrapped it up.
1:01:49 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:01:53 Speaker 04 Well, I wasn't quick enough, so we're having a kid. Yeah. Which is crazy. So, but I, so I understand that that's just like a different situation. But in the, in the, in the concept of, of family planning, of understanding like when, when it is you're deciding to have kids. I would like to normalize there being a legitimate reason as to why I feel that I would service bringing a person here. Yeah. And raising them. Like an intention. An intention. A thought about it at all. A thought about it at all, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's, and that's a great, I wouldn't know yet. Yeah. I don't know. I wouldn't be able to think right now and say, this is my reason for why I think bringing a human into this world with another human is the right thing to do for both of us and the person we make. Yeah.
1:02:35 Speaker 04 And that, yeah, I just, I've got time to figure that out. So it's not a priority for me. Yeah. When, what, what makes you the happiest? When are you the happiest? Oh, that's a really good question.
1:02:48 Speaker 04 It, I, what I've started to understand and really love is that I can feel at a weirdly peak level of happiness that I think that I have the ability to feel under very, under very different circumstances. And I think that's been a fun adjustment. It's because I believe in like, I will only be happy if I'm engaging in my life's passion, where I want to do it, when I want to do it. And other than that, I'm not doing it right. And there are times where I'm not actively working and I just have been weirdly, really in sync with the people in my life outside of work. And that's why I feel super happy. And then there are times where I'm not really feeling engaged with my family or with my friends or my girlfriend. And there's like, kind of things that just feel like out of sync for a while.
1:03:30 Speaker 04 But I'm working on something that I really, really love and I'm still very, very happy. So that's, I think it comes in waves. And I figure that out, uh, as it comes along. I've noticed that I feel happiest when, this is a very selfish way of, of, of looking at it because it's just like, when all the circumstances are aligned for like the things that I love. I love being able to work in the city where I live. When my friends and family are also working and living in that same area as me. Cause there are times that's very rare. So anytime I notice that, I'm like, oh man, these are all the things I love about what I get to do with my short bit of time here. And that's a great moment and that always feels very good.
1:04:11 Speaker 05 It's the best when you can leave work and be like, oh, I can see someone for dinner.
1:04:14 Speaker 04 I can see someone for dinner.
1:04:15 Speaker 05 I can sleep in my bed tonight.
1:04:16 Speaker 04 I can go sleep in my bed. Oh, it's lovely.
1:04:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's the best.
1:04:19 Speaker 04 It's so lovely. And that's the one thing that's hard with like with this job. It's like most of the time when you're working, it's not at home.
1:04:23 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:04:24 Speaker 04 It's just a job that you travel for.
1:04:25 Speaker 05 To me, the worst situation is working in New York on overnights. Because then it's like, I'm working.
1:04:33 Speaker 04 I've yet to do that.
1:04:34 Speaker 05 3pm to 7am.
1:04:35 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:04:35 Speaker 05 I am sleeping all day, which is so unnatural.
1:04:38 Speaker 04 It's so weird.
1:04:39 Speaker 05 And then I'm going straight back to work. But I'm in the city where so many of my friends and loved ones are doing things.
1:04:45 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:04:45 Speaker 05 I'm like, I almost wish I was in fucking Vancouver or like.
1:04:48 Speaker 04 There was like, there was a disconnect.
1:04:49 Speaker 05 Croatia or something. So I'm like, then I could just be like, oh, the reason I'm not seeing anyone is because I'm away. Instead of like, oh, if I slept two hours less, I could squeeze in a lunch with someone, but then I'll be tired at work. Like the, the math even being possible.
1:05:02 Speaker 04 That it's rare for that to line up.
1:05:03 Speaker 05 Working days in New York is working, normal days in New York is great, especially on like a soundstage or something.
1:05:07 Speaker 04 For sure.
1:05:08 Speaker 05 Get out quicker.
1:05:08 Speaker 04 You got, that's, it basically is close. Anytime you're working inside, it's basically as close to a nine to five as this job can get.
1:05:14 Speaker 05 Yeah, and it's awesome.
1:05:15 Speaker 04 It's awesome.
1:05:15 Speaker 05 That was Devil Wears Prada.
1:05:16 Speaker 04 It, oh.
1:05:17 Speaker 05 Devil Wears Prada was on a.
1:05:18 Speaker 04 How long did you shoot on that?
1:05:20 Speaker 05 Like 17 days.
1:05:21 Speaker 04 Nice.
1:05:21 Speaker 05 Mine was quick and it was like, it was gorgeous. It was on this beautiful soundstage.
1:05:27 Speaker 04 Amazing.
1:05:27 Speaker 05 Everything ran like a machine in Queens.
1:05:29 Speaker 04 Nice.
1:05:30 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:05:30 Speaker 04 Oh dude.
1:05:31 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:05:31 Speaker 04 That's awesome.
1:05:32 Speaker 05 It was awesome. And then there were all the other soundstages, everyone would file out into this like one shared street where everyone was like eating and reading books and in costume and getting their hair done while they walk. And it was just like.
1:05:40 Speaker 04 So fun.
1:05:41 Speaker 05 We're making movies, baby. This is what it's all about. We're making films.
1:05:45 Speaker 04 This is lovely.
1:05:46 Speaker 05 I'm just watching, I was, I would between takes, I would just go sit outside because it was really nice. It was like fall weather. I would go sit outside like in my costume and wait to be in the next take. Cause there, you know, there'd be a setup. I was in the background of a lot of Meryl scenes, uh, which is an honor.
1:05:59 Speaker 04 That's awesome.
1:06:00 Speaker 05 But they, you know, sometimes I'd be framed out or whatever. So I'd have like three hours to kill.
1:06:03 Speaker 04 For sure.
1:06:03 Speaker 05 And I'd just sit outside and read my book and talk to whoever was going by. And what was really fun. Was, it was the first time I've been around long enough now and made enough things that, just barely, that I ran into people I knew from past projects.
1:06:16 Speaker 04 Whoa.
1:06:16 Speaker 05 I got run into like-
1:06:17 Speaker 04 It's not fun.
1:06:18 Speaker 05 A P A from three movies ago. And it was so fun.
1:06:21 Speaker 04 It's so fun.
1:06:22 Speaker 05 I was like-
1:06:22 Speaker 04 It's so small world.
1:06:23 Speaker 05 I know people.
1:06:24 Speaker 04 It really does make it, make you understand how few, I think, people, and relative to like, how, how big the, the industry seems.
1:06:32 Speaker 05 Especially on the crew side.
1:06:32 Speaker 04 On the crew side, the amount of people that just like cycle through.
1:06:35 Speaker 05 You just keep running into these- And it's someone awesome. It's like, oh my god, that fucking, that like, uh, key grip that I loved from that movie is now here working on this thing and we get to hang out all over again.
1:06:45 Speaker 04 It rocks.
1:06:46 Speaker 05 It's the best thing ever.
1:06:47 Speaker 04 It's so fun.
1:06:47 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:06:48 Speaker 04 It feels like, I don't know, it feels like starting school. I never went to summer camp, and I don't know why I keep on bringing up summer camp and the things-
1:06:56 Speaker 05 You're loving summer camp right now.
1:06:57 Speaker 04 I'm, I keep on saying-
1:06:58 Speaker 05 Summer camp's on the brain.
1:06:59 Speaker 04 Summer camp's on the brain. But it would be like, almost like you find out that a friend you made at camp is going to your same school the next year.
1:07:05 Speaker 05 Yeah.
1:07:05 Speaker 04 It's like, oh, and then it's like, you get to pick up where you left off and you thought, because you did so many goodbyes and it's like, I really liked getting to know you, this is awesome. You exchange numbers, you're like, well, hang. And then a few weeks pass and then you work, you inevitably work on other things. And like, the bummer of it is that you realize it's just like, you rarely get around to doing so. And so it's really fun. When you jump back onto a set and you get to just immediately-
1:07:26 Speaker 05 Fall back in.
1:07:27 Speaker 04 Yeah, fall right back into it.
1:07:28 Speaker 05 Just interesting to hear you say that you exchange numbers with people. I asked for your number at the end of Pizza Movie and you said no.
1:07:32 Speaker 04 That's bullshit. I've had your number for months. I've had your number for like a year. That sucks.
1:07:38 Speaker 05 I said, I said, Gaten, it was so much fun working with you.
1:07:40 Speaker 04 The day we wrapped.
1:07:41 Speaker 05 I'd love to stay in touch and you said, sorry man. You said, call my publicist.
1:07:46 Speaker 04 We'll flag it with the team and then maybe-
1:07:48 Speaker 05 I flagged it with the team.
1:07:49 Speaker 04 Flag it with the team.
1:07:50 Speaker 05 I tried to walk up to you, I tried to walk up to you and your security guard went, "Excuse me?" No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding, guys. I'm playing.
1:07:56 Speaker 04 Oh, that's funny.
1:07:57 Speaker 05 I'm playing, guys.
1:07:59 Speaker 04 Oh, that'd be so, oh, that'd be good.
1:08:00 Speaker 05 Gaten, I have a game for you.
1:08:01 Speaker 04 Please.
1:08:02 Speaker 05 We play it every episode on this show.
1:08:03 Speaker 04 I can't wait.
1:08:04 Speaker 05 Okay, it's a true false segment.
1:08:06 Speaker 04 Amazing.
1:08:07 Speaker 05 Um, ba, ba, ba, da, ba. Basically, what's gonna happen here is I'm gonna read you 15 statements. You're gonna tell me as quickly as you can after each one if what I just said was true or false.
1:08:16 Speaker 04 Okay.
1:08:16 Speaker 05 And Gaten, if you get 10 or more correct- Don't get too excited. We're gonna give you 50 US dollars.
1:08:24 Speaker 05 I know, I know.
1:08:25 Speaker 04 This is good.
1:08:25 Speaker 05 Stranger Things is over, brother. It's time to get back to work. It's time to clock in. Alright. Dr. Seuss wrote Charlotte's Web.
1:08:32 Speaker 04 False.
1:08:32 Speaker 05 False. It was E.B. White. The airplane was invented in 1903.
1:08:35 Speaker 04 False.
1:08:36 Speaker 05 True. Alaska has the most lakes of any US state.
1:08:39 Speaker 04 False.
1:08:39 Speaker 05 True. Elton John's middle name is Hercules.
1:08:42 Speaker 04 False.
1:08:42 Speaker 05 True. Goldfish don't sleep.
1:08:45 Speaker 04 True.
1:08:45 Speaker 05 False.
1:08:46 Speaker 04 Fuck.
1:08:48 Speaker 05 Pineapple's regional high school's yearbook is called a cat tail.
1:08:51 Speaker 04 False.
1:08:52 Speaker 05 It's true.
1:08:52 Speaker 04 No, it's not. It's the cat eye.
1:08:54 Speaker 05 Oh, Chance.
1:08:56 Speaker 04 Wait, that's their website. Sorry.
1:08:59 Speaker 05 You wouldn't be the first to challenge Chance. Passports for US adults are valid for 12 years.
1:09:04 Speaker 04 False. It's 10.
1:09:05 Speaker 05 False. It's 10. Wendy's is older than Taco Bell.
1:09:08 Speaker 04 True.
1:09:08 Speaker 05 False. The mascot for Kraft Mac and cheese is the Cheesosaurus Rex.
1:09:12 Speaker 04 That's not true. No, it's not. I eat Kraft Mac and cheese once a week.
1:09:15 Speaker 05 It's Cheesosaurus Rex.
1:09:16 Speaker 04 I've never seen Cheesosaurus Rex. Wait, show me Cheesosaurus Rex.
1:09:19 Speaker 05 We'll pull it up. The Property Brothers are not twins.
1:09:22 Speaker 04 The Property Brothers are twins.
1:09:24 Speaker 05 They are twins. They're identical twins, so it's false. The New Jersey state drink is cranberry juice.
1:09:28 Speaker 04 That would make sense, so I'm gonna say true.
1:09:30 Speaker 05 It's true. The Drowsy Chaperone won five Tony Awards.
1:09:35 Speaker 04 That's got, oh, that's true. Yes. Did it not win any? Did it? True.
1:09:40 Speaker 05 It's true.
1:09:40 Speaker 04 True, yeah, okay. Don't look at me like that. It sucks.
1:09:42 Speaker 05 A group of cheetahs is called a pride.
1:09:45 Speaker 04 One more time?
1:09:46 Speaker 05 A group of cheetahs is called a pride.
1:09:49 Speaker 04 Their cat's so true.
1:09:50 Speaker 05 False. It's called a coalition. It's horrifying.
1:09:54 Speaker 04 That's so annoying.
1:09:55 Speaker 05 The original Motorola Razr did not have a camera.
1:10:01 Speaker 04 True.
1:10:02 Speaker 05 It's false.
1:10:04 Speaker 05 Anakin Skywalker's mother's name is Shmi.
1:10:07 Speaker 04 Shmi Skywalker, that's true.
1:10:08 Speaker 05 That is true. How do you do? Six.
1:10:14 Speaker 04 Show me Cheesosaurus Rex.
1:10:16 Speaker 05 Pull up Cheesosaurus Rex now.
1:10:18 Speaker 04 There's no way.
1:10:19 Speaker 05 Put Cheesosaurus Rex right here in the episode, I'm begging.
1:10:22 Speaker 04 I am a crab, mac and cheese connoisseur.
1:10:23 Speaker 06 It's kind of shocking you haven't seen.
1:10:25 Speaker 05 Cheesosaurus Rex.
1:10:26 Speaker 04 When's the last time they've used Cheesosaurus Rex?
1:10:28 Speaker 05 I'm assuming, is it not on the boxes? Chance does this to people, dude. He's a very nefarious actor. He's a bad agent.
1:10:36 Speaker 06 I don't know why this is not.
1:10:37 Speaker 05 Chance, you think you want to pull the picture up?
1:10:38 Speaker 06 I know, it's not connecting to my.
1:10:40 Speaker 04 But I guess we can just say it's false.
1:10:44 Speaker 04 Cheesosaurus Rex, and I'm gonna remember what this guy looks like, too.
1:10:46 Speaker 05 Oh, there he is. Oh, you've seen him.
1:10:50 Speaker 04 That guy hasn't been used since 1993. Look at that guy.
1:10:52 Speaker 05 Look at him.
1:10:53 Speaker 04 That.
1:10:54 Speaker 05 You love him.
1:10:55 Speaker 04 I don't think I've seen that guy.
1:10:56 Speaker 05 Look at him. Chance, is it still in use?
1:10:59 Speaker 06 Uh, he is used in select promotional campaigns.
1:11:02 Speaker 05 That means he's retired.
1:11:03 Speaker 06 Primarily from like 1997 to like 2013, but he still appears on some boxes and things.
1:11:09 Speaker 04 That looks like 1982 to 87.
1:11:11 Speaker 05 I was gonna say, if he was gonna say like.
1:11:14 Speaker 04 He was a float in the Macy's Day Parade?
1:11:16 Speaker 05 He's very famous, Cheesosaurus Rex. It's cool to be cheesy.
1:11:20 Speaker 04 It certainly is.
1:11:22 Speaker 05 Oh wait, click on that shirt. Do I need that shirt? Go down, bottom, right, right, right. Oh my god.
1:11:27 Speaker 06 That's sick.
1:11:28 Speaker 05 We need to get that for you.
1:11:29 Speaker 04 That's a great idea.
1:11:30 Speaker 05 You need that.
1:11:31 Speaker 04 I will look that up.
1:11:32 Speaker 05 Chance, buy that for Gaten on my dime.
1:11:33 Speaker 04 If I do get that, though, but maybe can I, that's a hundred and forty-five dollars?
1:11:37 Speaker 05 I don't care how much it costs. No price is too big for my boy.
1:11:41 Speaker 04 Wait, can I get it so that it can be the thing you display on my behalf here?
1:11:44 Speaker 05 No, it's too big, but we should, we should put a Cheesosaurus Rex on the set.
1:11:47 Speaker 04 A Cheesosaurus Rex is a really good, cute little thing.
1:11:49 Speaker 05 We're gonna put Gaten's Cheesosaurus Rex on the set. Don't let me forget. Don't let me forget. Wait, what's that other one, the long sleeved one? Get him that as well.
1:11:57 Speaker 04 Is that?
1:12:00 Speaker 06 This looks like a Brian Robert Jones.
1:12:01 Speaker 04 Dude, I love that shirt.
1:12:02 Speaker 05 Buy every Cheesosaurus Rex shirt you can find and send it to Gaten's house immediately. It's like, it's like funny at first, but then you get like seven more Cheesosaurus Rex shirts from me. You start telling people, you're like, Kailbaren's kind of a weird guy.
1:12:17 Speaker 04 You block my number and keep sending me.
1:12:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never talk to you. I see you in public. I avoid you. I just keep sending the Rec shirts. She's a source Rec shirts every day. Oh shit.
1:12:28 Speaker 04 So, oh my gosh, look at that guy wearing it like a little model.
1:12:31 Speaker 05 We gotta put some of these on screen so people know what we're talking about.
1:12:34 Speaker 04 That Hollister pose.
1:12:35 Speaker 05 Why would he ever be surfing on water and not cheese?
1:12:38 Speaker 04 I don't, that's a waste of opportunity for sure.
1:12:41 Speaker 05 Gaten, thank you so much for being on.
1:12:42 Speaker 04 Thank you for having me.
1:12:43 Speaker 05 You were an incredible guest. Do you want to tell people, well, Watch Pizza Movie?
1:12:46 Speaker 04 Watch Pizza Movie, we're both in it.
1:12:48 Speaker 05 Watch Pizza Movie, Gaten's incredible in it.
1:12:49 Speaker 04 As are you.
1:12:50 Speaker 05 Fully his film and they allowed me to show up for a couple of days.
1:12:53 Speaker 04 That's great. We're so happy you did.
1:12:55 Speaker 05 Is there anything else you want to tell the people?
1:12:56 Speaker 04 I appreciate your investment of your time and your energy.
1:13:01 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah. And follow him on Instagram, for god's sakes, you guys.
1:13:04 Speaker 04 I don't post.
1:13:05 Speaker 05 He's not, he's not posting his cute pictures on there for nothing. Give this guy a follow. Let's, everybody, everybody, let's bring Gaten to the top. Thanks for doing it, dude.
1:13:15 Speaker 04 Thanks, man.
1:13:17 Speaker 00 I hate Mondays.
1:13:18 Speaker 01 King's Hawaiian cinnamon swirl bite?
1:13:19 Speaker 00 Taylor Hansen? Sure, I'll try one. Mmm.
1:13:25 Speaker 02 Hey, let's get back to work, please.
1:13:26 Speaker 00 But Taylor Hansen's making my day way better with these new soft and swirly King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites.
1:13:31 Speaker 02 Taylor Hansen? Nice. Try one. Mmm.
1:13:38 Speaker 03 King's Hawaiian cinnamon bites. There's nothing like it.
Previous Taylor Tomlinson Isn't Settling Next Sarah Sherman Sees Everything Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated