RERELEASE: S1E2: Will the Real Evil Empire Please Stand Up?

Today, we have Episode 2 of our first season of SNAFU all about Able Archer 83, the NATO military exercise that almost started a real nuclear war. Last week, you met some of our main characters and heard about 1980’s America where tension with the Soviets was a fact of everyday life and we heard about a dauntless sleuth trying to unearth the SECRET CIA files that reveal the entire Able Archer story. Now, in episode 2, we meet the men keeping it all together – aka avoid a nuclear armageddon. This of course is Ronald Reagan and Yuri Andropov. SIt back and enjoy SNAFU Season 1, Episode 2: "Will the Real Evil Empire Please Stand Up?" See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Ed Helms?

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• 0:34Speaker 02

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• 1:24Ed Helms?

  All right, we're back. And as I mentioned last week, we're coming at you with episode two of our first season of Snafu, all about Able Archer 83, the NATO military exercise that almost started a real nuclear war. Last week, you met some of our main characters and heard about 1980s America, where tension with the Soviets was just a fact of everyday life. And we heard about a dauntless sleuth trying to unearth the secret CIA files that hold the entire Able Archer story. Now, in episode two, we get into the two men at the center of it all, just trying to keep it all together. And by that, I mean, avoid nuclear Armageddon.

• 2:06Ed Helms?

  I'm, of course, referring to Ronald Reagan. Yeah, that's my Ronald Reagan impression. Not good. Ronald Reagan and his counterpart in the Soviet Union, Yuri Andropov. So sit back and enjoy Snafu, Season One, Episode Two. Will the real evil empire please stand up?

• 2:32Ed Helms?

  You know what's unsettling? Thinking about how easy it would be to push the nuclear button. You know, the one, the big red button. Nukes go flying, and millions of people instantaneously evaporate. You know you shouldn't, but you still kind of want to push it. It's right there. That button.

• 2:51Speaker 04

  Button pushing. It gets so much easier to talk of how many tens of millions of deaths are acceptable when one is removed from it.

• 3:00Ed Helms?

  This guy gets it. The idea that a simple flinch of a presidential finger could cause so much destruction. It feels too easy, too clean. Okay, there's not really a big red button. That's a myth. The truth is, the nuclear war plans live in a briefcase that follows the US president wherever they go. The codes are always on hand, written on a small card in the president's pocket. Like your gym membership card. You've always got it on you, and you never use it. But it's still relatively easy, because the process of launching a nuclear weapon is still a million miles removed from the real cost: millions of human lives. In the 1980s, people were pondering this problem: how to make the weight of pushing

• 3:44Ed Helms?

  that button just a little bit heavier. People like Roger Fisher.

• 3:47Speaker 04

  Roger Fisher, who is a law professor at Harvard or Yale, I can't remember, which had a fantasy about how one could overcome this button-pushing distance.

• 3:57Ed Helms?

  Fisher was a professor at Harvard, not Yale. But anyway, he proposed an idea.

• 4:03Ed Helms?

  "What if," he said, "the nuclear codes weren't in a briefcase? What if the codes were actually in a little capsule? And that capsule was buried in the chest of a volunteer? Let's call him Fred. Instead of carrying around the briefcase with the codes inside, imagine Fred carrying around a big, heavy butcher knife."

• 4:21Speaker 04

  And if the president needed the codes, he would have to retrieve them from the volunteer and would hand the president the knife.

• 4:28Ed Helms?

  Fred, I'm sorry, buddy, but I gotta hack your chest open. Fred's freaking out. The commander-in-chief is forced to then physically butcher good old Fred with his own hands, in order to then kill millions.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  When he told this to his friends in the Pentagon, they were aghast. Blood on the White House carpet.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  They said he might never push the button.

• 4:53Ed Helms?

  Precisely. Much to his dismay, Roger Fisher's fantasy was just that: Earth-destroying power still rests in a briefcase that follows the president wherever they go. To me, it makes the prospect of launching a nuclear weapon a terrifying psychological dilemma. What will it really take to push a man so far that he'd press that button? That he'd prompt the end of the world?

• 5:19Ed Helms?

  I'm Ed Helms, and this is Snafu, a podcast about history's greatest screw-ups. In season one, we're telling the story of Able Archer 83, the 1983 NATO military exercise that became a Snafu so gigantic, so absurd, so terrifying, that it almost led to a real nuclear war.

• 6:01Ed Helms?

  In order to trace what happened during Able Archer 83, we need to get to know the players at the heart of this story. This episode will follow the two powerful men behind the proverbial big red buttons: US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet General Secretary Yuri Andropov. They're two men with political savvy, plenty of bravado, and an aptitude for mind games. The question is, would they push each other too far?

• 6:31Speaker 05

  How do you do, everybody?

• 6:32Ed Helms?

  Hey there!

• 6:33Speaker 05

  I'd like to introduce myself.

• 6:35Ed Helms?

  Please do.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  My name is Ronald Reagan.

• 6:38Ed Helms?

  This was it, where it all began. It's the late 30s, and a young Ronald Reagan introduces himself to moviegoers in the trailer for his first film, Love is on the Air. Even from the beginning, he had that incredible knack for making you feel like he was talking right to you through the camera.

• 6:55Speaker 05

  A few months ago, I was a sports announcer on a radio station in Des Moines, Iowa.

• 7:00Ed Helms?

  Back before he was charming political audiences with his good looks and brilliant smile, Ronald Reagan was a radio sports announcer in Iowa. Legend has it, sometimes Reagan would lose the feed of the game while he was live on air, so he would just make up amazing plays until the feed came back. But his descriptions were so vivid, audiences didn't really care whether they were hearing about a real game or not. But Reagan knew his face was too pretty for radio. He wanted Hollywood. And in 1937, he got the break he was looking for.

• 7:31Speaker 05

  And one day, I ran into one of these movie talent scouts. I think I caught him off guard, because the next thing I knew, I was taking a screen test for Warner Brothers in Hollywood.

• 7:42Ed Helms?

  His career didn't exactly take off like a rocket, but he was working, got some good roles in smaller films. He even got to play a guy whose legs were amputated by an angry, small-town doctor. Good stuff! After a few years, it seemed like Reagan was finally headed for the A-list, until a world war inconveniently disrupted his path.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  December 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy.

• 8:15Ed Helms?

  The World War II draft called up young, able-bodied American men, including the famous ones. Even Jimmy Stewart went off to fly bombers in the war. But Ronald? Well, he left Hollywood to go nowhere. Yeah, no, he didn't actually leave Hollywood at all. Instead of fighting the war on the front line, he filmed propaganda and training videos for the army at a movie studio in Culver City, California. To be fair, the 405 and the 10 intersection is the closest I've ever seen to a war zone, but I digress.

• 8:43Speaker 06

  So he serves out his time, and the war ends. And he is very disappointed that the fighting has not fixed the world.

• 8:55Ed Helms?

  This is journalist Seth Rosenfeld. He says that, at this point in time, Reagan's life wasn't going so well. His relationship was falling apart, his career was faltering, and he was looking for a new sense of purpose.

• 9:08Speaker 06

  One night, there's a knock on his door, his home, 1946. And two FBI agents are standing there, and they say they have some information that he might be interested in. They came wanting some findings from me.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  on people that I had dealt with and so forth.

• 9:25Ed Helms?

  By this time, Reagan was a vice president of the Screen Actors Guild, and the FBI came knocking. Hey, Ronald, we could use your help.

• 9:33Speaker 06

  This is about spies and savages. We're sure, as a former military man, you know all about that.

• 9:39Ed Helms?

  Calling Reagan a military man was a bit much. It's like calling Dr. Pepper a member of the medical establishment. But, you know, I mean, come on, they were buttering him up. The FBI thought Hollywood communists were brainwashing the American public by sneaking pro-communist propaganda into movies. At first Reagan said, no, thanks. He wasn't interested in what he called red baiting. But then the FBI said.

• 10:02Speaker 06

  We think you're going to want to hear what some of these people are saying about you.

• 10:08Ed Helms?

  Basically, the commies are talking shit about you behind your back.

• 10:11Speaker 06

  That got his attention.

• 10:13Ed Helms?

  And there, right on his doorstep, Reagan got his shot at patriotic glory. The FBI offered him a chance to enlist in the world's next great conflict, the war against the communists.

• 10:23Speaker 06

  After that meeting, he agreed to become an FBI informant.

• 10:28Speaker 06

  He did provide information about colleagues and people who he suspected were un-American in some way.

• 10:40Ed Helms?

  As it happens, the FBI's communist plot story was a bit exaggerated.

• 10:44Speaker 06

  There's really no evidence that anything like that ever happened.

• 10:48Ed Helms?

  Sure, there were people in Hollywood who called themselves communists. And it's not at all surprising that some of their politics seeped into their work. But these weren't national traitors in contact with Soviet agents. There was no coordinated plot. But that wasn't Reagan's takeaway.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  I never got over realizing I could recognize the signs.

• 11:10Ed Helms?

  Reagan wasn't just convinced that communists were his enemies. He started to believe that every one of his enemies were communists. If someone was against him, it was a sign they were a pinko for sure. And here's where things get a little weirder.

• 11:23Speaker 06

  Not only was Reagan reporting on somebody who he suspected somehow might be a communist or a communist sympathizer, but he was also reporting on people he didn't like.

• 11:34Ed Helms?

  Get in an argument with Ron at a meeting, snub him at a party, maybe write a bad review for his chimpanzee movie. You just got yourself blacklisted. It wasn't just Reagan. Everyone was ratting each other out. There were hearings, public shamings, people were prevented from ever working in Hollywood again. Some even ended up serving time in prison.

• 11:54Speaker 05

  It did give me a real understanding of the communist menace.

• 12:01Ed Helms?

  If you asked Reagan, he was fighting the good fight. He was an American hero. Fast forward to the mid-'50s, Reagan's acting career was buttering a little, which meant maybe it was time for a career change. Perhaps a leap from the silver screen to the political podium? Reagan versus the communists, coming soon to a political stage near you.

• 12:23Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  Thank you very much. A group of prominent party members came to me before the 1966 governor race in California and claimed that I was the only one who could bring the party together and win the election.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  California millionaires were looking for a new candidate, and they didn't have an obvious one. But they saw him, and they saw how he appealed to audiences.

• 12:54Ed Helms?

  This is Frankie Fitzgerald. She literally wrote the book on Reagan and nukes.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  They knew they didn't have to worry too much about what he actually thought about because he was a good actor. He would just, he would do what people wanted him to do.

• 13:08Speaker 05

  They kept after us till pretty soon Nancy and I couldn't sleep. We thought, well, what if they're right? Can we live with ourselves if we keep saying no?

• 13:17Ed Helms?

  Pretty soon, the Hollywood actor Ronald Reagan was the governor of California with his sights set on the White House.

• 13:24Speaker 05

  The distinguished guests here, and you ladies and gentlemen, who I know are looking for a cause around which to rally and which I believe we can give them.

• 13:35Ed Helms?

  Running for president in 1980, Reagan gave Americans causes to rally around all right. And in so doing, he permanently altered the character of the Republican Party.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  He didn't have much support at that point nationally. But he went for the South, and the South had just turned Republican.

• 14:00Ed Helms?

  His opponent was Jimmy Carter, the incumbent Democrat, who was really more of a centrist. So in order to capture votes, Reagan needed to move to the right.

• 14:09Ed Helms?

  Far to the right. His main thing was Reaganomics: tax cuts, balanced budget, trickle-down economics, all that. And in order to sell the policy, he needed a villain. And you could be pretty sure it wouldn't be Wall Street.

• 14:21Speaker 05

  In Chicago, they found a woman who holds the record. She used 80 names, 30 addresses, 15 telephone numbers to collect food stamps, social security, veterans' benefits for four nonexistent deceased veterans' husbands, as well as welfare. Her tax-free cash income alone has been running $150,000 a year.

• 14:45Ed Helms?

  Now, this little anecdote, while tethered to an actual person, is deeply embellished. And worse, Reagan is using it to sell a larger myth that is complete horseshit. That welfare queens were running rampant in US society. It was racist, and this myth has never really gone away. It's a nasty old political trick, scaring the voters straight into the voting booth. And when it came to the Cold War, Ronald Reagan saw an opportunity for a new villain, one he knew very well: the communists.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  So that was when Reagan began to move to the right on national security issues.

• 15:24Speaker 02

  Reagan did take a very strong line on building up US defenses.

• 15:30Ed Helms?

  That's nuclear expert Jeffrey Lewis.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Reagan was hawkish in a way that alarmed not just Democrats, but many mainline Republicans.

• 15:39Ed Helms?

  Reagan was hawkish, but he didn't actually want to fight a nuclear war. In the same breath that he spoke about building more weapons, he always talked about how awful a nuclear war would be. He said he dreamed of a day with no nuclear weapons. A bit confusing, I know, but the idea was this: in order to maintain MAD, mutually assured destruction, the US needed to match the Soviets' nuclear strength. That would be the only way to keep us all safe. And that's what's known as peace through strength.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Reagan really painted himself as a person who was going to be strong and who was going to stand up to the Soviet Union in a way that Jimmy Carter did not.

• 16:19Ed Helms?

  In reality, Jimmy Carter was not at all soft on the Soviets. I mean, this is the president who pulled the US out of the Moscow Olympics. He wouldn't even share the beauty of rhythmic gymnastics with the Soviets. But the truth didn't really matter. Reagan had a political story to sell. The evil communists are threatening the American way of life, and we're too weak to stop them. Hey, vote for me.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Somewhere along the way, fantasy got mixed up with reality. That is to say, if you're an actor, it does to some degree.

• 16:50Ed Helms?

  Ouch, Frankie, that hurts. But I guess it's fair. I still think The Hangover is a documentary, and do not try to convince me otherwise.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  Well, the time has come. Ronald Wilson Reagan of California, a sports announcer, a film actor. We have projected Ronald Reagan the winner.

• 17:11Ed Helms?

  You hear the subtle incredulity in his voice? How about a little less subtle incredulity?

• 17:17Speaker 05

  Who's president of the United States in 1985?

• 17:21Speaker 04

  Ronald Reagan.

• 17:22Speaker 05

  Ronald Reagan, the actor?

• 17:24Ed Helms?

  Suffice to say, Doc wasn't the only person who was surprised. Over in Moscow, the Soviets were trying to get a read on this new Hollywood president. But they also had their hands full with a leadership shakeup of their own.

• 17:41Speaker 07

  Pumpkin carving sounds fun, until you're elbow-deep in pumpkin guts. There's an easier pumpkin tradition: Reese's Pumpkins. No seeds, no giant kitchen knife, no pressure to create a masterpiece that's just going to shrivel up on the front porch three days later. And if something goes wrong, just eat it. Every mistake is still pretty delicious. So this Halloween, skip the mess of pumpkin carving and stock up on Reese's Pumpkins.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Picture this: you're the owner of a plumbing company descending into an 18-inch crawl space to hydrojet a sewer line. Don't ask.

• 18:20Ed Helms?

  Oh, boy, this is tight. I knew I shouldn't have had that extra helping of mashed potatoes last night.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Now let's say your phone rings.

• 18:30Ed Helms?

  Uh-oh.

• 18:32Speaker 02

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• 18:35Ed Helms?

  I better get that.

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• 18:39Ed Helms?

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• 18:50Ed Helms?

  Oh.

• 18:53Speaker 02

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• 19:36Speaker 02

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• 20:17Speaker 04

  Good evening. Leonid Brezhnev, the Soviet Communist Party leader and president, died yesterday morning of a heart attack, but the news was not enough.

• 20:25Ed Helms?

  In the Soviet Union, 1982 ended with the bang of a coffin lid. Brezhnev was dead, and his successor emerged from the shadows.

• 20:35Speaker 04

  Yuri Andropov, former chief of the KGB, or secret police, was named chairman of the funeral committee, possibly a sign that he could succeed as party leader.

• 20:44Ed Helms?

  When Leonid Brezhnev died at the end of 1982, Yuri Andropov, former head of the KGB, stepped up to become the leader of the Soviet Union. Yeah, the head of the KGB took over. That KGB. Mm-hmm. Russian secret police, political assassinations, midnight arrests, domestic surveillance. Ring a bell? So, believe me when I say the news of Andropov's appointments sent a chill up every spine in Washington. Suddenly, everyone was scrambling to learn something, anything, about their new adversary. But the stories that were emerging about Andropov, they were all over the fucking place. Some said he spent his youth as a boatman, or a film projectionist. Others say Stalin almost killed him in the Soviet purge,

• 21:26Ed Helms?

  or that he was the mastermind behind the Berlin Wall, or that he plotted the death of the Pope. It was difficult to get a sense of him, to figure out what was true biography and what was lore. What people were left with were mostly just photographs. His icy white hair was always combed back just so. The thick, black rim of his glasses kind of merging with his wily eyebrows. His face, always entirely expressionless, not giving a damn thing away about what he's thinking. So, when it comes down to it, as you might expect from a KGB man, Yuri Andropov was a total mystery.

• 22:07Speaker 04

  Yuri Andropov is, I think, one of the most interesting Soviet leaders.

• 22:12Ed Helms?

  This is Simon Miles, a Cold War historian.

• 22:15Speaker 04

  So Andropov was definitely a man of the system, as we say. He started his career in the party, and he finished his career in the party.

• 22:28Ed Helms?

  It was actually more complicated than it sounds, because throughout the middle of the 20th century, the party was constantly shape-shifting, as were its rules, norms, and expectations. So, to remain in the party's good graces for so many years was a feat all its own.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  He's a remarkable man. I read his speeches very carefully. He managed always to be a centrist, whatever it meant to be a centrist at that particular moment. A great master of political maneuver.

• 22:56Ed Helms?

  Andropov rose through the ranks of Soviet politics, slowly gaining more and more power, and eventually demonstrating a particular talent for brutal policing.

• 23:07Ed Helms?

  He became head of the KGB in 1967. This is historian Douglas Selvage, who specializes in the history of Soviet secret police and propaganda. Once Andropov took over the KGB, he began to issue new regulations, push for new laws, new ways to prosecute people for anti-Soviet agitation or propaganda.

• 23:31Ed Helms?

  As head of the KGB, it was like Andropov became a twisted Soviet Santa. Through his staggering surveillance network, he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good, so, holy shit, you better be good. This was a naughty list you did not want to be on. He actually created a new division within the KGB responsible practically just for suppressing internal dissent. And one that was especially dealing with intellectuals or people who had contacts to Western journalists or the West. One story goes that when he was hiring someone new for his KGB office, he didn't bother to interview anyone. One candidate said, "Let me tell you about myself," to which Andropov replied, "My dear boy, what makes you think

• 24:16Ed Helms?

  I don't already know everything about you?" Yeah, the British accent's mine. I was taking creative license. I just thought it sounded more kind of like a movie villain. Because that's kind of what he is, right? I mean, this dude was frickin' scary. All you had to do was sing the wrong protest song, and you'd get scooped up by Andropov's trash collectors.

• 24:36Speaker 04

  He is having Soviet dissidents sent to state mental facilities.

• 24:43Ed Helms?

  Of course, if you're diagnosed with, there was this special diagnosis, sluggish schizophrenia, it's even harder to get out of a mental hospital than to get out of prison.

• 24:53Speaker 04

  He was a perpetrator of some really horrible things.

• 24:59Ed Helms?

  And yet, in 1982, as he stepped into the role of Soviet leader, rumors began floating around about Andropov. That he loved Western art, literature, folk music. A real Renaissance man.

• 25:13Speaker 04

  So at the same time as he's sending these people to state mental facilities, he is happily sitting around a fireside in the Caucasus Mountains with the head of the local Communist Party, singing their songs, and playing them on a guitar, and roasting, you know, sausages on sticks and things like that. There seems to be some controversy about Andropov. There's a suggestion that some of his political aides leaked through the Western press, what some are calling disinformation, about his being a closet liberal, a man who likes Western art, is a very urbane intellectual. What is your view of him?

• 25:50Speaker 07

  Part of it is the complexity of the man himself, I think.

• 25:54Ed Helms?

  Complexity. That's the best they could do on good old PBS back in 1982. Throw their hands up in the air and just kind of shrug. Goes to show, when it comes to Andropov, everything you learn about him should have an asterisk and a little footnote that says, "Maybe."

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Andropov is ultimately a mystery in this, because he turns out to be an old, sick man dying.

• 26:13Ed Helms?

  Oh yeah, one more thing you should know about Yuri Andropov. When he became the leader of the Soviet Union, he was practically on his deathbed from kidney failure.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Keep in mind, if you complained about the Soviet Union too much, he'd probably have you and your family murdered, but yes.

• 26:26Ed Helms?

  He'd kill you, then sing songs at your funeral. Permission to not feel bad for him. So here's where we are. In one corner, we've got Ronald Reagan, newly-elected American cowboy who does not keep his distaste for the communists on the down-low, campaigned on the promise of building more weapons. And in the other corner, Yuri Andropov, who nobody really knows anything about, except for the fact that he likes to squash dissidents, and he's dying of kidney failure. I'd buy a ticket to this fight. That's right, Ed. The atmosphere is electric. We've been waiting nearly 40 years to see these two sluggers enter the ring. Who's gonna land the first punch? Well, that's anyone's guess. One thing we should probably get out of the way. This nuclear missile standoff is basically just a big dick-measuring contest.

• 27:13Ed Helms?

  I'm not being crass. This is an idea straight out of academia. A young professor named Carol Cohn wrote about it in the early 80s. She said that US defense intellectuals, the guys who literally shape our nuclear policy, talked about nuclear war in a way that was overtly erotic. Nations without nukes were called virgins. They talked about the creamy foam of mushroom clouds. Nuclear blasts were called orgasmic womps. I'm not joking. And according to Carol, apparently, the men kept touching the bombs, like stroking them, even asking her, "Hey, Carol, do you want to touch it?" It sounds like harassment, but Carol says they were totally unaware of the innuendo. Honestly, to me, it sounds like a bad stand-up routine. The point is, at the peak of the arms race,

• 27:58Ed Helms?

  nuclear weapons became a very unsubtle metaphor for one's manhood, which made nuclear policy awfully susceptible to the good old-fashioned inferiority complex.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  When Reagan comes into office, and this is where the war scare comes in, he has this very partisan idea that the US is weak and the Soviets are strong, and we have to fix that.

• 28:18Ed Helms?

  Oh yeah, Reagan's campaign message, that whole thing about Soviet strength and American weakness? It's totally and utterly incorrect. Let me take a big highlighter to that, because this is the first domino. It's this misunderstanding that sets us up for the real clusterfuck in November 1983. The United States was never behind the Soviet Union in military capability. In fact, the Soviet economy wasn't doing great. The military was broke, and their equipment was in total disrepair. But Reagan was running for president, and candidates always ramp up the rhetoric. Of course, now that he is president, surely he'll get the real intel? He'll realize the Soviets are not an actual threat and cool down all this talk about building more bombs.

• 29:03Ed Helms?

  Right?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Ronald Reagan, having campaigned on being tough, is not going to stand up and say, "Oh, that was just for the cameras. I'm actually an old softie. I love Borscht." He's not gonna do that. He truly believes that the Soviets are strong and we are weak, and he has to restore his strength.

• 29:20Ed Helms?

  And Andropov, trained to be paranoid, assumes that Reagan must be up to something.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  And I think when he hears Reagan talking about how the Soviet Union is strong and America is weak, and America has to get stronger, Andropov knows it's the other way around, and he thinks that Reagan is lying, right? That Reagan is deliberately distorting the truth in order to exploit the Soviet Union's weakness.

• 29:46Ed Helms?

  In order to gain public support for building more bombs, which of course had the Soviets wondering, "Why is Reagan want all these bombs so badly?"

• 29:55Speaker 02

  And they don't see Reagan as bringing the US up to their level. They see Reagan as pushing past them. And it's really in that context, right? Where you have those two totally different views of what the hell is happening, that you get the war scare.

• 30:12Ed Helms?

  Ladies and gentlemen, that is a pissing contest. Except, in this case, the piss is radioactive. And the pissers are shooting completely in the dark. And we're all in the crosshairs, getting a very deadly golden shower.

• 30:29Ed Helms?

  If it's possible to take a metaphor too far, we might have done it. And what's about to happen next? It's only gonna make things worse. I think it's time for that "day after" scream again.

• 31:01Ed Helms?

  When Andropov and Reagan came into power, they weren't just on different pages. They were reading from entirely different books. Arms negotiations were closed, but a chilly Cold War relationship does not necessarily a nuclear crisis make. In order for things to spiral out of control during 1983's Able Archer exercise, things needed to get a lot hotter. And they did.

• 31:25Speaker 00

  I was born in Hungary. My father was in the Soviet military, so we moved a lot.

• 31:30Ed Helms?

  This is Svetlana Sovranovskaya.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  I work at the National Security Archive as Director of Russia Program and Senior Analyst.

• 31:40Ed Helms?

  Svetlana works in DC now, but she grew up in the Soviet Union, where she was constantly told that the United States was a threat, that they could attack at any time.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  My father was a very devoted communist. Like, he actually believed seriously. I remember when I began asking questions about nuclear weapons and possibility of war much later, maybe in high school, he was always saying that, well, of course, we have to defend ourselves.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  So I get into Moscow State University, and I am very, very excited.

• 32:22Ed Helms?

  Svetlana's first year of university was, you guessed it, 1983.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  In the universities in Moscow, you had mandatory military preparation. So one day a week, we would have a complete military immersion day. You would wear a military uniform, go to a separate place, and you'd take military courses.

• 32:44Ed Helms?

  It wasn't all marching to Tchaikovsky. Periodically, Svetlana and her comrades would do nuclear drills, practice what to do if the Americans launched nuclear weapons at the Soviet Union. Sirens would blare, and the students would file into lines and head straight for the bunkers.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  We had a civil defense system.

• 33:00Ed Helms?

  Underground bunkers were meticulously scattered throughout the country so that in case of a nuclear attack, Soviet citizens could survive.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  So we practiced it regularly. Like, once a month, we had to go to the nuclear shelter.

• 33:14Ed Helms?

  Svetlana says the walk from her university to the bunker was about 10 to 15 minutes. So if the United States launched a missile and the Soviets sounded the alarms...

• 33:23Speaker 00

  It takes 30 minutes for a ballistic missile to get to Moscow, and under 30 minutes, you can walk leisurely to your shelter.

• 33:36Ed Helms?

  I don't know how leisurely I'd be walking in that situation, but I take her point. A secret CIA report from the late 70s said that there were only enough bunkers to save about 20% of the Moscow population, if American intelligence was right. But they did expect most of these shelters to actually work. Anyone inside would survive a nuclear blast. But then, as Svetlana tells it, the bunker chatter started to get a little more tense.

• 34:01Speaker 00

  Over the summer, the relationship between the United States and the Soviet Union really got from bad to worse. There was a discussion of how the danger is rising. The United States is becoming more and more aggressive. We could see that there was also very genuine concern among these military guys, especially after the deployments started.

• 34:30Ed Helms?

  The deployments Svetlana is talking about are the 572 shiny new missiles being installed in Western Europe by NATO, the Pershing 2s and the ground-launched cruise missiles. The Pershing 2s were little and lightweight, at just over 30 feet long. They were highly maneuverable and fast. And then there were the ground-launched cruise missiles, aka Glikhams. They were designed to fly low to the ground underneath radar, capable of delivering seriously big booms. Now, these new missiles would be nicknamed the Euro missiles because they would be installed in Europe, very close to Soviet territory. Now, if NATO wanted to attack the Soviet Union, the missile

• 35:14Ed Helms?

  flight times would be a lot faster. Disastrously faster.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  So our military officers explained to us one day, your civil defense arrangement is useless because now with the Pershings in Europe, it takes under 10 minutes. They said it takes seven minutes for them to hit Moscow.

• 35:40Ed Helms?

  Seven minutes, which means if it took Svetlana 10 minutes to get to her bunker...

• 35:46Speaker 00

  There is no use anymore of going, running. They had this joke. Now, if you hear the alarm, your training should be, you cover yourself with white sheet and lay your head away from the nuclear blasts.

• 36:03Ed Helms?

  Woohoo, very dark joke. Starting to understand why Russia is known for ballet and not comedy.

• 36:10Speaker 00

  Really, for the first time in my life, I felt like there could be nuclear war.

• 36:16Ed Helms?

  To be clear, the threat to deploy these new Euro missiles was a negotiation tactic during the Carter years, before Reagan ever set foot in the Oval Office. Because the Soviets had missiles too, enough to bomb all of Europe if they felt so inclined. So European leaders felt exposed. They said they would also like a light sprinkling of missiles on their side of the border, thank you very much. Thus, the cruise and Pershing 2s. But in reality, the prospect of these missiles being deployed was only intended to be a threat. Back off, or we'll bring in some nukes. But when Ronald Reagan entered office, he and the NATO chiefs made good on that threat. The deployment was scheduled for November 1983, the exact same time as NATO's annual Able Archer exercise.

• 37:07Speaker 07

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• 39:30Speaker 06

  In New York, a nuclear freeze off!

• 39:34Speaker 06

  The nuclear freeze movement was a grassroots movement that wanted to de-escalate the nuclear arms race.

• 39:41Ed Helms?

  Seth Rosenfeld again. Seth says after the announcement of the Euro missiles, people all over the world took to the streets in protest. They thought Reagan was being irresponsible by pointing even more weapons at the Soviets, and they put pressure on Congress to cut Reagan's defense spending. And of course, Reagan didn't like that.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  Reagan actually made an allegation that the nuclear freeze movement was just another communist plot to weaken America.

• 40:08Ed Helms?

  Yep, Reagan believed that the Soviets were brainwashing people, all to orchestrate a massive nuclear cock block. And by now, Ronnie knew exactly what to do when a communist plot was afoot. He got on stage.

• 40:26Ed Helms?

  I'm delighted to be here today. It's now March 3, 1983. We're T-minus eight months to Able Archer, and Reagan's in sunny Orlando, Florida to deliver a speech. A number of years ago, I heard a young father saying, "I love my little girls more than anything, and I would rather see my little girls die now, still believing..."

• 40:48Speaker 05

  than have them grow up under communism and one day die no longer believing in God.

• 40:59Ed Helms?

  Okay, that's pretty weird for a crowd to cheer on a father wishing for the death of his children. But the audience was the National Association of Evangelicals, and I think it's safe to say they take believing in God pretty seriously. Say what you want about Reagan, the guy knew his crowd.

• 41:20Ed Helms?

  With the nuclear freeze movement on Reagan's back, he needed to remind the public why his military buildup was necessary. He needed to remind them who the enemy was, like he'd done a million times before. But this time, he would go a little too far.

• 41:36Speaker 05

  Let us pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness. They preach the supremacy of the state, declare its omnipotence over individual man and predict its eventual domination of all peoples on the earth.

• 41:50Ed Helms?

  The next words out of Reagan's mouth are a critical turning point in our Able Archer story. If all this nuclear tension was already soaked in gasoline, you might say Reagan was about to light a fucking match.

• 42:04Speaker 05

  They are the focus of evil in the modern world. I urge you to beware the temptation to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire.

• 42:20Ed Helms?

  An evil empire. Now, them's fighting words.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  And that was a shock. It was in all Russian newspapers.

• 42:31Ed Helms?

  To the Soviets, calling them an evil empire was a step too far. They wondered, was Ronald "My nuke is bigger than yours" Reagan calling them out because he was building up to an attack? Well, they wouldn't have to wonder for long.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  Good evening. President Reagan today issued a formal directive to the National Security Council to begin initial research on the space-age missile defense system he proposed to the nation last night.

• 42:57Ed Helms?

  Three weeks after calling the Soviet Union an evil empire, Ronald Reagan announced that he was building a new technology. He gave the public an irresistible pitch. What if the thing you're absolutely the most afraid of could suddenly vanish into thin air?

• 43:12Speaker 05

  We could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they reached our own soil or that of our allies.

• 43:18Ed Helms?

  He proposed a kind of magic shield, a technical innovation that would shoot down Soviet missiles from outer space. He called it the Strategic Defense Initiative, acronym SDI, and he would need a massive increase in his defense budget to do it. Now, a nuclear shield sounds like a comforting thought, but you might be wondering, how the hell would you do that? Well, Reagan conveniently wrapped up his speech before offering much detail.

• 43:46Speaker 05

  There will be risks, and results take time. But I believe we can do it.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  In this speech, he said, we're going to make nuclear weapons obsolete by building these defenses. And he didn't say what the defenses would be, really, but people then began asking all of his aides what the defenses could be, and they came out with their own view of it. Whereas everyone in both houses of Congress and in this knows the Defense Department understood that he was talking about something that simply didn't exist and couldn't exist.

• 44:18Ed Helms?

  In other words, it was bullshit. Fantasy. America didn't have the technology to block out thousands of incoming Soviet nukes. Hell, we still don't have that kind of technology. Reagan's opponents in Congress started calling it the Star Wars program because of how obviously it was rooted in science fiction.

• 44:36Speaker 05

  I got a bad feeling about this.

• 44:38Ed Helms?

  Some scientists estimated that developing Star Wars would take 30 years and cost a million, million dollars. But that didn't stop Reagan supporters from trying to sell the illusion with creepy ads like this.

• 44:51Speaker 03

  I asked my daddy what the Star Wars stuff is all about. He said that right now we can't protect ourselves from nuclear weapons. And that's why the president wants to build a peace shield. It would stop missiles in outer space so they couldn't hit our house. Then, nobody could win a war. And if nobody could win a war, there's no reason to start one.

• 45:20Ed Helms?

  Anyway, all of that might have been fine, funny even, if the Soviets didn't have their own interpretation of this announcement. They thought it was part of a cunning plan. That, sure, Reagan would put satellites in space, only these satellites wouldn't be used for nuclear defense. They would be used to launch nuclear weapons at the Soviet Union.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  There was a certain hysteria among the Soviet leaders because what it meant to them is a blitzkrieg from space. And that would create a situation where the United States would have first-strike capability.

• 46:01Ed Helms?

  Star Wars, the new missiles in Europe, and the evil empire speech. To the Soviets, these three things added up to one conclusion. The United States was preparing a surprise nuclear attack against the Soviet Union. It was the only explanation. They were certain of it. What was Andropov to do? Well, for one thing, he needed to see the attack before it happened. He needed eyes on the other side of the Iron Curtain. And it turns out, he had them.

• 46:33Ed Helms?

  Next on Snafu, we leave the Oval Office and Kremlin to meet the spies in the field who would be forced to intervene during the Able Archer crisis. America is preparing a sudden nuclear attack on our country. It was moments like that that he really began to think, I need to do something about this. I need to target the Soviet system, undermine it somehow, and try and damage it somehow. NATO was my enemy, and I went in to destroy it. I mean, this is just so utterly crazy. Stanley Kubrick could not invent this.

• 47:09Ed Helms?

  Snafu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film Nation Entertainment, and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with Gilded Audio. Our lead producers are Sarah Joyner and Alyssa Martino. Our producer is Carl Nellis, associate producer Tori Smith. It's executive produced by me, Ed Helms, Milan Papelka, Mike Falbo, Andy Chug, and Whitney Donaldson. This episode was written by Carl Nellis and Sarah Joyner, with additional writing from me, Elliot Kalin, and Whitney Donaldson. Our senior editor is Jeffrey Lewis. I'm actually an old softie. Olivia Canny is our production assistant. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Additional research and fact-checking by Charles Richter. Engineering and technical direction by Nick Dooley. Original music and sound design by Dan Rosado. Additional

• 47:54Ed Helms?

  editing from Ben Chug. Some archival audio from this episode originally appeared in Taylor Downing's fantastic film 1983: The Brink of Apocalypse. Thank you, Mr. Downing, for permission to use it. Special thanks to Alison Cohen and Matt Aizenstat.

• 48:26Speaker 07

  The scariest part of Halloween isn't the full moon or a chainsaw starting up in the distance. It's running out of Reese's cups. Because when you open the door to four princesses, six superheroes, and three Draculas all reaching for your Reese's cups, things can get scary fast. Especially when you were kind of counting on some leftovers. So this Halloween, buy extra. Because your neighbor Jeff dressed like a kangaroo? That's scary enough. Running out of Reese's cups doesn't need to be.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  Halloween's almost here, and I've got plans. My first stop is Total Wine & More for cold beer, ready-to-drink cocktails, and a bottle of wine to share. And I know I'm getting the lowest prices. Get the fun started at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21.

• 49:11Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.