Pod Insights SNAFU with Ed Helms Sarah Spain and Napoleon's Russian Blunder About this episode Sarah Spain knows a thing or two about winning. But sadly for ol' Napoleon Bonaparte, he managed to do anything but win this war. Ed and Sarah trudge into the tundra to follow Napoleon's epic screwup in his campaign to conquer Russia.
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Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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0:34 Speaker 02 The scariest part of Halloween isn't the full moon or a chainsaw starting up in the distance. It's running out of Reese's Cups. Because when you open the door to four princesses, six superheroes, and three Draculas all reaching for your Reese's Cups, things can get scary fast. Especially when you were kind of counting on some leftovers. So this Halloween, buy extra. Because your neighbor Jeff dressed like a kangaroo? That's scary enough. Running out of Reese's Cups doesn't need to be.
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1:35 Speaker 05 Hold on, Ed. What you're trying to tell me is they made a bunch of men share responsibility for power, and it didn't work out? They couldn't all just get along and, you know, best idea wins?
1:46 Speaker 06 Believe it or not, I mean, this is like the one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.
1:51 Speaker 05 How do you say penis measuring contest in French? Do you know?
1:56 Speaker 06 It's a contest. Meure l'échelon.
2:04 Speaker 06 Welcome to Snafu, the show about history's greatest screw-ups. I'm Ed Helms and today I am joined by the Emmy and Peabody award-winning journalist, host of the iHeart Podcast, Good Game, all-around sports fanatic, and also she's someone who I recently met and just happened to adore. It is the one and only Sarah Spain.
2:29 Speaker 05 Thanks so much for having me and saying that. That's so nice.
2:31 Speaker 06 Well, right on.
2:32 Speaker 05 We hit it off.
2:34 Speaker 06 We did. Yeah, we were, uh, we were both in Austin at South by Southwest for some iHeart Podcast fun. And, um, yeah, it was just fun to connect. Did you have a good time down there?
2:47 Speaker 05 I did. That was actually my first time at South by Southwest. And I know that the iHeart treatment is not what everyone gets because we were in that beautiful hotel and never really had to leave. I just got to roll out of bed, walk out into this beautiful yard and go to different parties for awesome people and their podcasts. I know sometimes people have to actually go to, I think, conference rooms and meeting areas and things like that.
3:09 Speaker 06 Do stuff?
3:10 Speaker 05 Like do stuff. We just got to hang out with cool people like you. And so I loved it.
3:14 Speaker 06 At the, the Hotel Saint Cecilia, which is, uh, oh, what a gorgeous spot. So Sarah, I ask this of all my guests on Snafu, what is a snafu from your life? A personal snafu of some sort?
3:30 Speaker 05 I will, I will try to tell this story tight because it has many twists and turns, but I think the payoff is worth it. So let's just say I have terrible sense of direction. And I am also a multitasker, which puts me in the position where I'm leaving a physical therapy appointment that is only about 15 minutes away from my home. I am trying to be on a conference call while driving, while plugging into my GPS, the closest Mariano's grocery store here in Chicago. I see one that pops up and it says Ashland. I'm like, yep, that's the one near me. I hit go. I'm still taking the conference call. I start driving. I realize I've selected one that is not the one that's near me. But since I'm driving, I don't really have hands to plug it in again. I'm like, whatever. I'll just go to this one. It can't be that far.
4:14 Speaker 05 It's pretty far. The problem is that on the way there, I acquire a flat tire. So, I don't know this yet, but I go into the grocery store, I buy all my groceries, I put my credit card in the pocket of my giant puffer coat and not where I normally put it because my hands were full and I'm still on the conference call.
4:32 Speaker 06 That's a black hole. A puffer coat pocket?
4:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
4:35 Speaker 06 Forget it.
4:35 Speaker 05 And it was polar vortex. This was a couple of years ago in Chicago where we had multiple names for how cold it was in Chicago. Snowbra, Snowmageddon, polar vortex, etc. So, I go outside, discover the flat tire. Don't have AAA anymore. Call my husband, of course, he's who I call whenever I screw things up. He plugs in, he's like, "Oh my God, why are you like 30 blocks south?" or whatever it is. And I'm like, "Don't ask, just come help me."
4:59 Speaker 06 Oh boy. This is snowballing, if you will.
5:02 Speaker 05 Yes, well done. So, in the meantime, I've tried to go across the way to an auto zone or something who can't help me, which feels strange. It feels like the place that you would go if you have an auto problem, but no. Right next to there is a Party City. So I'm like, "I'll just pop into Party City really quick and walk around while I'm waiting for my husband to come fix the tire." I see a bunch of stuff, I don't buy anything, I use the bathroom, I come out. He fixes the tire and on the way home, I say, "You'd be very proud of me. I did not buy the football-shaped platter for the upcoming Super Bowl because I know we have too much stuff." And he's like, "I'm proud of you, you're always buying garbage we don't need." Fast forward, we get near home, I walk down the street to get us a sandwich and realize I don't have my credit card. But, I still have to go do my live radio show. So, while
5:45 Speaker 05 I am going home to get ready, my husband is graciously driving back to the Party City on the new tire we got to get my credit card. I go home, I start to prep for my show, my dog comes out of a side room looking real weird, and then he proceeds to vomit all over the brand-new carpet I'd just installed the day before. And it was one of those things where he had a different kind of accident and then ate it to clean it up and then put both into the carpet, if that makes any sense-
6:12 Speaker 06 Oh no!
6:13 Speaker 05 ...without being too graphic. So instead of cleaning it-
6:15 Speaker 06 Oh no, this is barf and-
6:17 Speaker 05 Yeah, shit vomit.
6:19 Speaker 06 Dookie in the same-
6:21 Speaker 05 Yep. So, I just roll up the rug and put it in the alley. I don't care that I bought it the day before. I'm not cleaning it, this is the worst day ever. I literally just throw it in the alley-
6:32 Speaker 06 You did the right thing. You did the right thing.
6:35 Speaker 05 I go upstairs to host my show and during a commercial break, I get a text from my husband. "Got your card." Photo of him holding the credit card and the second photo is him holding a football platter that he bought for me to make sure that my day improved.
6:49 Speaker 06 Oh fabulous. That is not a snafu, that is a cascading
6:55 Speaker 06 just blender of snafus all wrapped up into one.
6:59 Speaker 05 You will not be surprised to learn that that rug was gone by the next day.
7:03 Speaker 06 Oh good.
7:04 Speaker 05 You could put almost anything in an alley in Chicago and someone will give it a go.
7:07 Speaker 06 Somebody took it, put it in their house and was like, "Whoa!" And then put it in their alley and it's basically just bouncing around apartments in Chicago.
7:15 Speaker 05 I do feel really bad for whoever was like, "Whoa, free rug."
7:18 Speaker 06 Yeah, oh my god. Alright, well, let's get into today's snafu.
7:27 Speaker 06 This week's snafu takes us back to one of the most famous bad ideas in military history. It was bold, it was brutal, and spoiler alert, it did not go as planned. But before we get into snowstorms and supply chains and a very stubborn little general, we've got to rewind a bit, all the way back to 1789 when one country decided, "Enough of this damned monarchy and ancien régime. It is time for révolution, baby."
7:56 Speaker 05 Oh, vive la France!
7:57 Speaker 06 Yes, that's, we're talking about the France Revolution.
8:01 Speaker 05 La guerre française!
8:02 Speaker 06 I took like seven years of high school French or something like some crazy amount.
8:08 Speaker 05 You were in high school for seven years? Wow. That explains a lot, frankly.
8:12 Speaker 06 No, I started in junior high. I started in junior high, then took French through high school, and then I think I did a year in college. All I got from it was this accent. That's all I could do.
8:22 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's pretty good. Did you start with "Voilà Monsieur Thibault"? Because I think that's what everyone started with in junior high French, was the Thibault family.
8:29 Speaker 06 Oh, c'est chouette le guignol. Does anyone remember that? That means, oh, great, the puppet show. The guignol was like a famous puppet.
8:36 Speaker 05 No one remembers that. It sounded German for some reason.
8:39 Speaker 06 That's not what you want when you're trying to speak French. It's 1790s in France, and it was a wild time. Guillotines, heads rolling all over the place, "Sorry, not sorry, Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette." It was a time of mass bloodshed and became known as the Reign of Terror. Over 20,000 people were executed for things like being anti-revolutionary, or religious, or just a little too fancy. How do you think you'd do during the Reign of Terror?
9:06 Speaker 05 I, yes, I've thought about this many times. I think I was born in a good time, seeing as I am a very outspoken woman, who does not follow any guidance based on the lanes in which I should inhabit or otherwise. So I think it would go one of two ways. Either I would die almost immediately upon being old enough to speak for myself, and they would be like, nope, she's gonna be a problem, and I would be out. Or, because I'm very tall and athletic, I would be one of those women who cosplayed as a man in order to both receive great goods and wealth, and also dominate some sort of army, or take some sort of leadership position where people didn't realize that I was actually a lady.
9:46 Speaker 06 I like that version, but I don't think you would need to even pretend to be a man. Like, I feel like Joan of Arc was this, was like of this kind of ilk, and I feel like the French get powerful women.
9:58 Speaker 05 Powerful women. Yeah, maybe I could just be one for the history books.
10:02 Speaker 06 Eventually, the chaos of late 1700s France hit a wall when Maximilian Hérault Sierre, head revolutionary and chief vibe killer, was executed in 1794. The next year, France handed the keys to the kingdom to a five-person Governing body called the Directory. It honestly sounds less like a governing body and more like some horrific database in which Mark Zuckerberg has collected all of our thoughts so that he can finally control the world.
10:32 Speaker 05 Yeah, or potentially like a Soho House type spot in New York that you have to pay a real big sum of money to join where you both learn your advanced biometrics and what age you'll die. And also get to smoke cigars in a room that no one else is allowed in.
10:48 Speaker 06 Yeah, and that and but also it's secretly a cult. Have you joined the Directory?
10:53 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly.
10:54 Speaker 06 Are you on the Directory?
10:56 Speaker 05 Or it sounds like Handmaid's Tale.
10:58 Speaker 06 Yeah. Surprise, surprise, the Directory was a total mess. Corruption, instability, nonstop dramas, and eventually-
11:06 Speaker 05 Wait, hold on, Ed. What you're trying to tell me is they made a bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't work out? They couldn't all just get along and, you know, best idea wins?
11:17 Speaker 06 Believe it or not, I mean, this is like the one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.
11:22 Speaker 05 How do you say penis measuring contest in French? Do you know?
11:27 Speaker 06 There's a contest.
11:29 Speaker 05 Le mèchement de slong.
11:32 Speaker 06 Oh, yes, of course. Corruption, instability, nonstop dramas, and eventually the French public started craving some real leadership again. And that's when a famously short, strategic, and wildly ambitious military man entered the picture. And you guess who we're talking about?
11:48 Speaker 05 Napoleon Bonaparte.
11:51 Speaker 06 Bonaparte, Napoleon. Why is it so fun to do that accent? I hope it's not too offensive. It's only inoffensive if it's a bad accent. I have a very good accent.
12:00 Speaker 05 Right, we're also running out of accents we can make fun of without it being a problem. So I think we gotta hang on to making fun of the French.
12:06 Speaker 06 It's kind of sad that to a lot of Americans, French people are basically the chef in Little Mermaid.
12:11 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:12 Speaker 06 Which is- Preposterous, like.
12:15 Speaker 05 Can you still sing any of that song? And do you have the rights to sing it on this podcast? Sacrabla, what is this? How on earth could I miss such a sweet little succulent crab?
12:26 Speaker 06 The most amazing thing about that song is that they rhyme, uh, Poisson with Hon. He goes, les Poissons, les Poissons, hee hee hee, hon hon hon.
12:36 Speaker 05 Hon hon hon, that's the most French thing ever.
12:38 Speaker 06 That's a rhyme. That's part of the lyrics is hon hon hon. It's ridiculous.
12:43 Speaker 05 I love that our brains will forever hang on to that. There's so many more useful things that should be lodged up in there, but I will forever remember all the lyrics to that.
12:50 Speaker 06 Yeah, I have a couple of little kids, so it's like still hitting me in the face constantly. So we're talking about Napoleon Bonaparte. Born a commoner on the French island of Corsica, Napoleon rose through the military ranks and after saving the Directory's asses from a royalist insurrection, he earned himself a cushy promotion to Major General. But this is France, right? So naturally there's another coup. And in 1799, Napoleon overthrew the Directory and put himself in charge, introducing First Council, Napoleon Bonaparte.
13:24 Speaker 05 Do you think it's a sign that France has really nailed the coups? Because we haven't found our own word, we just took theirs. Cause coup is a French word. And we were like, wow, they did it so well, we don't need our own word for it.
13:36 Speaker 06 I think they just had so many of them that the word was used so constantly.
13:40 Speaker 05 It's like Kleenex.
13:41 Speaker 06 And, and it, exactly. It's their brand. It's like the French brand to have.
13:47 Speaker 05 Government overthrow. Yeah.
13:50 Speaker 06 So, once Napoleon took charge, he basically Marie Kondo'd France, cleaned house, reorganized everything. You know, if it didn't spark joy, it was out of there. Brought some much needed structure to the post-revolution chaos. He revamped education, tried to set up a meritocracy and made the country feel like it was finally in grown up hands. And he was also out there crushing it on the battlefield. He was winning wars all over Europe. Of course, all this victory was going straight to his head. His ego was getting bigger than a French aristocrat's wig.
14:26 Speaker 06 Come on. Solid joke.
14:29 Speaker 05 It's pretty good. Are you making fun of him at different turns when you said he rose, which would be tough for him because even when standing up, it looked like he was sitting and in big hands, but probably quite small because he was known for being a tiny man.
14:41 Speaker 06 Those were not deliberate jokes.
14:42 Speaker 05 Okay, well.
14:43 Speaker 06 Believe it or not, yeah. So basically, what's happening here is that he is just like running roughshod all over Europe. The Napoleonic wars are going on and he's just kicking ass and he's winning. And he's like getting this bigger and bigger ego. And of course, that in classic snafu form would wind up badly compromising his judgment. Where's the line between confidence and full-blown delusion? Have you seen ego backfire like in the sports world?
15:12 Speaker 05 Yeah, for sure. True confidence actually usually manifests in someone who is much more laid back and wants to uplift others and put them in positions of power and empower them to be a part of decision-making. Narcissistic insecurity is usually the kind of ego power trip that results in a dictatorial leader, a boss who's an a-hole, or a player who is, you know, too diva-like in their tendencies and doesn't know how to incorporate the rest of their teammates. I think famously, Michael Jordan was one who, I don't know if it was ego so much as it was just an understanding of his own superheroic powers, but he had
15:53 Speaker 05 to be convinced to embrace an offense that would bring in his teammates, understanding that he was still going to be the main target. But in order for him to get the ball and shoot it, they needed to make everybody else be a threat as well. And so that flip from perhaps a little bit too egocentric to team player was really what opened up his greatness. So I think you can usually tell when somebody is a real leader. I think what's the, that's the phrase, leaders don't create followers, followers make leaders.
16:20 Speaker 06 Oh, I like that.
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16:52 Speaker 02 The scariest part of Halloween isn't the full moon or a chainsaw starting up in the distance. It's running out of Reese's Cups. Because when you open the door to four princesses, six superheroes, and three Draculas all reaching for your Reese's Cups, things can get scary fast. Especially when you were kind of counting on some leftovers. So this Halloween, buy extra. Because your neighbor Jeff dressed like a kangaroo? That's scary enough. Running out of Reese's Cups doesn't need to be.
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18:39 Speaker 06 All right, let's get back to Mr. Napoleon. He was getting a little too big for his cute little white britches, and he started forcing... You did it again. Yeah, that one was deliberate. You're right. Okay.
18:51 Speaker 06 He started forcing France's allies into a strict economic boycott of Great Britain. Most went along with this, but there was one holdout, one stick in the mud, and that was Russia. Napoleon did not think that that was very bon. So guess what he did? What do you do? Another country pisses you off?
19:12 Speaker 05 Tariffs?
19:13 Speaker 06 Good answer. Not correct. You just invade. You're pissed off at another country, you invade them. It's June 1812, and Napoleon is really feeling himself big time. He's giving major "I alone can fix this" vibes, and he's got the largest army Europe has ever seen, 650,000 troops. And that's not even counting all the mimes who are just pretending to be troops. Come on.
19:43 Speaker 05 And all the bakers that made the baguettes for the troops every morning, but were forced into battle with baguettes as swords when things went awry.
19:51 Speaker 06 A stale baguette is a, that is a weapon, for sure.
19:55 Speaker 05 Hard as hell.
19:56 Speaker 06 Yeah.
19:57 Speaker 05 Yeah, you'll break a tooth.
19:58 Speaker 06 You can't eat it. You're gonna use it on the battlefield, for sure.
20:01 Speaker 05 Can I ask you an honest question, Ed?
20:03 Speaker 06 Yes.
20:04 Speaker 05 How many guests do you have on this podcast who are listening along, and you could tell by their face that they recognize all the dates and names you're saying, and then suddenly realize they retained nothing from school, and while they've heard of Robespierre, and they believe 1812 to be a pretty big year for some stuff.
20:21 Speaker 06 Mm-hmm, couple wars.
20:22 Speaker 05 If you made them take a quiz right now, they'd be like, not entirely sure what happened.
20:27 Speaker 06 Honestly...
20:28 Speaker 05 Marie Antoinette definitely got her head cut off. I remember that.
20:31 Speaker 06 It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Like, we're, that's what I'm here for. We're just hanging out, enjoying it together, and some of these things, like, you know, I dip into them as like new research projects from, like, episode to episode, but I don't retain stuff either.
20:47 Speaker 05 No, I was gonna say, if we learned one thing from history, it's that we don't remember history.
20:51 Speaker 06 Yeah. So with all this military might, Napoleon's like, it's time to teach Russia a lesson. He's fully convinced they're a total mess. They're disorganized, underpriced. Prepared and just not at all at his level. And he even claims publicly that this whole thing will be wrapped up in 20 days, which spoiler alert, might be the mother of all jinxes. I'm curious, you're an athlete, you cover sports. Like, do you believe in superstitions and jinxes, streaks, hot streaks, all that kind of thing?
21:23 Speaker 05 I don't believe in superstitions like, oh, if you sat on the couch in this one specific spot, wearing this one specific shirt and your team won, if you change that up, they're gonna lose. I think the average fan has absolutely no import on the, on the outcome. But there's a guy named Ben Cohen, who wrote a book called The Hot Hand. And he actually dove into the concept of whether an athlete is essentially better in the middle of having like the hot hand, the NBA jam, if you will. He's on fire, if there's actually such a thing. And it's a really complicated and fascinating look at like the parts that feel like it's a very clear thing. You're almost in flow state.
22:02 Speaker 06 Sure.
22:02 Speaker 05 Which most creative types understand versus whether it's simply about confidence mixed with a trained body, right? If you have enough muscle memory to remember the thing you're supposed to be doing and you can get so in the flow state and so confident that you're not overthinking anything, you just naturally do the thing successfully over and over again, which then becomes like you're on fire or you're in the zone. So I believe in it for the athlete. I do not believe in it for the fan.
22:29 Speaker 06 I still feel like if I wear the wrong color socks, the Dodgers will lose. So that's.
22:35 Speaker 05 Well, keep wearing them then, because I'm a Cubs fan.
22:39 Speaker 06 French troops moved into Russia. Russian generals deployed a very interesting strategy. Instead of standing their ground, they just kept retreating again and again, letting Napoleon's troops chase them deeper and deeper into Russian territory. Why would they do this? This seems insane, right? Well, it was actually quite savvy because the French were burning through their supplies, getting farther and farther from their reinforcements. And despite the crushing heat and endless mud and tons of disease ravaging all the troops,
23:10 Speaker 06 They kept marching, like they took the bait. They just kept going straight into Russia. Cue the dramatic music, because this was all a trap. The Russian army was employing what is known as a scorched earth strategy, meaning they would burn down their own towns and torch all of their own supplies as they retreated, basically saying, "If we can't have it, neither can you." Oh, no, wait, they're Russian. I can't do a Russian accent.
23:35 Speaker 05 It's very smart. I mean, terrible, but smart.
23:37 Speaker 06 It's brutal, but, but, but shrewd. So, this scorched earth policy basically meant that Napoleon's army couldn't live off local food stores and supplies, which would be the typical practice of an invading army, and they-
23:51 Speaker 05 Beef stroganoffs and such.
23:53 Speaker 06 Of course. And they really couldn't do anything except keep marching, exhausted and starving, deeper and deeper into what was quickly becoming a hellscape. Now, you've been around a lot of competition. What's more valuable, brute strength or sound strategy? How do you, how do you find that balance?
24:09 Speaker 05 Well, actually, something I learned in, um, laser tag is you have to have the upper ground. The most important thing out of the three is you have to have the upper ground so that you could see down upon your enemy, and your strategy improves because you're able to see them, and often they can't see you.
24:27 Speaker 06 Okay, laser tag.
24:30 Speaker 05 In laser tag or in life, once you've established the higher ground. I am way more into strategy than brute strength. I believe there's a time and place, like a bar fight, where brute strength will likely win, and everywhere else where strategery is involved, uh, I think, I think it's more about the brain. Brains over brawn.
24:49 Speaker 06 I think you're right. And I say that because I'm a weakling, and I like to think I could persevere in a tough situation. Now, despite numerous, what we can only imagine to be stern warnings from many of his top advisors about turning around, Napoleon was convinced that he could lead the French army to victory in Moscow. He was all in on chasing this glory. At one point, he nearly caught the Russians at the city of Smolensk, but instead of pressing his advantage, he paused the march on what happened to be his 43rd birthday, because nothing says military genius like taking a personal day during a war.
25:24 Speaker 05 I would presume champagne was involved, though.
25:27 Speaker 06 You're right. I guess.
25:29 Speaker 05 Right.
25:29 Speaker 06 I mean, it is weird how well the officers lived, right? In these, on these like, like they had like these incredible tents with furniture and butlers and servants and all kinds of stuff.
25:42 Speaker 05 There's a famous Napoleon champagne quote, "In victory you deserve it, in loss you need it."
25:49 Speaker 06 Oh, interesting. So it's kind of like, just always have it on hand. There you go.
25:53 Speaker 05 Yeah, I believe he might have been the originator of the sabering.
25:57 Speaker 06 Oh, that would track.
25:58 Speaker 05 Have you seen, you know, a champagne saber?
26:00 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah, I've done it.
26:01 Speaker 05 Yeah, me too. I think it's tied back to Napoleon and his, his thoughts on champagne. Don't quote me on that, but that's something I've been told.
26:08 Speaker 06 I like that. The only downside of this birthday party is that the party favors were lice and typhus, which is a horrible disease, spread by lice.
26:19 Speaker 05 Oh, oh, no.
26:20 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah. This army was really, really bedraggled at this point. So we're settling into a cycle here. Chase, scorch, repeat. But there was one proper showdown, and that was on September 7th, 1812, at the Battle of Borodino. It was brutal. Both sides took massive casualties, but the Russians had the edge. They were closer to home and could rebuild faster. Napoleon's army, not so much. This raises a good question. Home field advantage, is it always an advantage? Or is it sometimes a liability?
26:52 Speaker 05 I would say it's always an advantage.
26:54 Speaker 06 Yeah.
26:55 Speaker 05 I don't think it's always gonna tip the scales, but I would say it's arguably almost never a disadvantage.
27:03 Speaker 06 Mm-hmm.
27:03 Speaker 05 Although I can think of a couple places where the ownership was so hated that being at home and still being showered with booze and rage over the decision-making of your front office, GM, president, etc., might be more frustrating than just being on the road and accepting that the opposing team's fans will hate you. But I think for the most part, knowing you came from your house and you're going back to it, you know the lay of the land, all that stuff. Maybe you get some hometown whistles because the fans are subconsciously affecting the officiating. Usually a good thing.
27:34 Speaker 06 Yeah, and I would think that the, that just roar of a hometown crowd is gonna give you so much adrenaline. But at the same time, I could see how, like, going into the, the sort of den of the enemy could also be like... Like, kind of, like, rage-inducing in a powerful way and then in a, maybe an inspiring way. Napoleon finally made it to Moscow on September 14th. Victory. Right? I mean, it's the capital city of Russia. He took the capital. You got it. That should be it. Like, game over. Not quite.
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28:44 Speaker 02 Pumpkin carving sounds fun, until you're elbow-deep in pumpkin guts. There's an easier pumpkin tradition: Reese's Pumpkins. No seeds, no giant kitchen knife, no pressure to create a masterpiece that's just gonna shrivel up on the front porch three days later. And if something goes wrong, just eat it. Every mistake is still pretty delicious. So this Halloween, skip the mess of pumpkin carving and stock up on Reese's Pumpkins.
29:14 Speaker 07 Picture this: You're the owner of a plumbing company, descending into an 18-inch crawl space to hydrojet a sewer line. Don't ask.
29:23 Speaker 08 Oh, boy, this is tight. I knew I shouldn't have had that extra helping of mashed potatoes last night.
29:30 Speaker 07 Now let's say your phone rings.
29:31 Speaker 08 Uh-oh.
29:35 Speaker 07 It could be a lead on a very big job.
29:38 Speaker 08 I better get that.
29:39 Speaker 07 Or, it could just be a spam call.
29:41 Speaker 08 Oh.
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30:14 Speaker 00 Halloween's almost here and I've got plans. My first stop is Total Wine & More for cold beer, ready to drink cocktails and a bottle of wine to share, and I know I'm getting the lowest prices. Get the fun started at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly, be 21.
30:30 Speaker 06 Napoleon believed capturing Moscow would force Czar Alexander to seek peace, as had occurred with all of the other European capitals he had invaded. However, he massively underestimated the Russians' resolve and their flair for strategic nihilism. When Napoleon's battered troops entered the city, it was a smoldering husk. Russian forces had completely torched it, their own capital city, on the way out. Civilians had fled, supplies were nearly nonexistent, no food, no shelter, and not even any officials to negotiate with. And to top it off, the legendary Russian winter was fast approaching.
31:12 Speaker 05 Oh, this is like when you play the Packers in December.
31:16 Speaker 06 Yes.
31:17 Speaker 05 You just, you know, you know that you've got an extra man on your side and it's, it's the hail and sleet.
31:24 Speaker 06 If you're the Packers.
31:25 Speaker 05 And conditions at Lambeau.
31:27 Speaker 06 Yeah.
31:27 Speaker 05 Yeah, invited the Chicago Bears over and then just left them there.
31:31 Speaker 06 They got old man winter on their side.
31:33 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly.
31:34 Speaker 06 Oh, man, that's, that's a great way to think about it. Things are dire, but Napoleon is still convinced he just won the war. So he sends Czar Alexander a letter politely requesting his surrender. Now, to be fair, 18th century military etiquette did allow for this kind of thing, but after five freezing miserable weeks with no response, it became clear Napoleon was just being ghosted, like hard. And the worst part, he had absolutely no leverage left. I love this. He's like, I took your capital, I won. And the Russians were just like, shh, don't pay him any attention, he'll leave.
32:13 Speaker 06 And they're right.
32:14 Speaker 05 That is incredible.
32:15 Speaker 06 Yeah.
32:16 Speaker 05 You would never imagine that the goal would be to trash your own place and just retreat, retreat, retreat, run away, run away, as they say in Monty Python. And then it would work because you don't even consider the fact that the opposing side doesn't have any backups.
32:32 Speaker 06 It's weirdly nihilistic to torch your own city, but they saved their city by doing that, weirdly. Of course, they had to rebuild, but it was still theirs. Because finally, with no food, no shelter, and by the way, fresh whispers of yet another coup brewing back home, Napoleon had no choice. In mid-October, with the first snow starting to fall, he ordered the retreat.
33:00 Speaker 05 Wow.
33:01 Speaker 06 Great timing, right?
33:02 Speaker 05 Having gained nothing.
33:04 Speaker 06 Nothing.
33:04 Speaker 05 Having won nothing, gained nothing, other than, I guess, a big chunk of Russia is now ash. Right, they did achieve burning down a significant number of cities and towns and a big, a big city center in Moscow.
33:19 Speaker 06 But they weren't able to claim.
33:20 Speaker 05 They didn't claim anything.
33:21 Speaker 06 Yeah, it was, it was a total loss. And as we'll soon find out.
33:26 Speaker 05 Do you think he went back and said it was a complete and total obliteration? And then his, his people were like, I don't know.
33:34 Speaker 06 The journalists of the day are like, well, we've covered, we had some reporters there, a little bit of a different story, my friend.
33:46 Speaker 06 So what was left of the French army, which they lost so many people, we'll get to the numbers shortly.
33:55 Speaker 06 But what was left of the army limped away towards the border and finally made it out of Russia in late December of 1812. But at this point, Napoleon wasn't even with them. He had actually abandoned his troops to rush back to Paris on December 5th, not because he left the oven on, but because those coup rumors were really heating up. Now, there was actually a coup brewing and it was quashed pretty quickly. Still, what kind of coach leaves his players in the dust like that?
34:23 Speaker 05 There's an NFL player who retired at halftime. No, it was not an important game. It was just a regular season game. But at halftime, he was like, yep, I think that's about it for me.
34:35 Speaker 06 What?
34:36 Speaker 05 Vontae Davis, Vontae Davis.
34:38 Speaker 06 That's intense. Well, this was needless to say, a brutal escapade. Let's review the numbers here. Napoleon had marched into Russia with over 600,000 troops. Fewer than 100,000 made it out. Not, not good, not a good look. And after this, the dominos started to fall pretty fast. Napoleon's aura of invincibility was shattered and his enemies pounced. By 1814, a coalition of major European powers, including Austria, Prussia, Russia, Britain, and others defeated him and sent him into exile on the island of Elba, which is kind of a beautiful island in the Mediterranean, so.
35:18 Speaker 05 I was gonna say, it sounds nice.
35:20 Speaker 06 Yeah.
35:22 Speaker 06 But Napoleon wasn't done yet. Less than a year later, he pulled the ultimate surprise, bitch, and escaped for a brief chaotic comeback known as the Hundred Days. This ended at the famous Battle of Waterloo, where he was trounced again and sent packing again, this time to Saint Helena, which is an extremely remote island way off in the South Atlantic. They learned their lesson, like, we're not gonna put him in just like a nice fancy place. We're sending him way the hell away. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe, traumatized by Napoleon's entire vibe, held the Congress of Vienna to redraw the map, restore monarchies, and basically agree, let's never do that again.
36:04 Speaker 06 Napoleon then died in exile in 1821, presumably still wearing that awesome hat. And Europe found a balance of power.
36:13 Speaker 05 Napoleon's dead? Wow.
36:15 Speaker 06 Oh yeah, no, he's dead. He didn't make it. He died.
36:20 Speaker 05 Should put that at the beginning of the episode.
36:22 Speaker 06 He was still a young man.
36:23 Speaker 05 In case we haven't watched history yet.
36:25 Speaker 06 He was, I think he was in his 50s. He was like 51 or something. Yeah, evidently, when he went to St. Helena, his health declined pretty rapidly, in part because it's thought he was such a, this, this grand personality. And now he was just confined to this remote place with very little going on. And he became depressed and reclusive and, and his health declined.
36:50 Speaker 05 Died of a broken heart. Wow.
36:51 Speaker 06 I guess so.
36:52 Speaker 05 I would have guessed gout.
36:53 Speaker 06 Yeah.
36:53 Speaker 05 To be honest, I would have guessed gout, but.
36:56 Speaker 06 He died of champagne poisoning.
36:58 Speaker 05 What a shame.
36:59 Speaker 06 Yeah.
36:59 Speaker 05 Do you know how you get gout? It's literally too much alcohol and rich foods.
37:05 Speaker 06 Yeah.
37:05 Speaker 05 I have a friend who got it in college from being a sorority sister.
37:09 Speaker 06 Yikes, but you're, it's also a genetic thing. I like, you have a genetic predisposition for gout.
37:14 Speaker 05 Right, sure, but we'll never stop making fun of her for getting the gout in college.
37:18 Speaker 06 Do you know Judah Friedlander, the comedian? He, he's, he's so amazing. I've known him from way back doing stand up in New York, like in the 90s. And I remember he got, he got gout and he talked about it on stage. He talked about how it's like your toe becomes like a Fred Flintstone toe. It looks like you, it looks like you dropped a rock on your toe in, in a Flintstones cartoon. And it's now like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like a red bulb pulsating. Like, that's how badly it hurts. Yeah, anyway. So Europe found a balance of power that was actually pretty rock steady until a certain world war broke out in 1914. But that is a story for another snafu day.
38:02 Speaker 06 And that, Sarah Spain, that is our snafu for today. What did you learn? Any takeaways?
38:09 Speaker 05 Well done.
38:10 Speaker 06 From Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Russia?
38:13 Speaker 05 I mean, one of the things I learned was that there was more strategy, even in the days of that kind of town torching battle.
38:21 Speaker 06 Yeah.
38:22 Speaker 05 I'm impressed by the Russians, which feels like a strange thing to say right now. But truly, good plan, well executed. About a five stars, Russia.
38:33 Speaker 06 Yeah, and if there's any lesson for, for Napoleon here, it's like, I mean, I feel like Kenny Rogers said it best, right? You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them. Know when to walk away, know when to run. He should have, he should have just thrown in the towel there. And I
38:50 Speaker 05 I completely agree.
38:51 Speaker 06 Unfortunately, this is a vibe we still see a lot of today. Leaders doubling down instead of backing off, mistaking stubbornness for strength. We have tech CEOs telling us that AI is going to save us. Meanwhile, it's really starting to feel like the fast track to full on dystopia.
39:08 Speaker 05 I think the thing we started with at the beginning, the, the directory, the idea of co-leading is something that should be getting a lot more attention in many spaces of late because it prevents that one egotistical dictatorial person who will not stop themselves from being checked. And I think in a lot of business and, and corporate spaces, there is a push for the kind of leadership that co-leadership would embrace, which is best idea wins, bring everyone together, utilize the strengths of all the different people, elevate the people beneath you, empower them to make great decisions and do things instead of the sort
39:49 Speaker 05 of micromanaging of one person who needs to double check everything and sign off on everything, which is a complete waste of time, completely ineffective and empowers one person to believe that they're the reason for all the success. And that's how you end up like Napoleon, where you've now convinced yourself you're so great that every decision you're making must be the right one. Every decision you make going forward must be followed, but no matter whether someone is telling you, hey, maybe there's a reason all these towns are already torched by the time we get to them.
40:16 Speaker 06 Exactly.
40:17 Speaker 05 You think they've got a plan.
40:19 Speaker 06 Amen. Very well said, Sarah Spain. You just put a book out. Congratulations. In addition to your amazing podcast all about sports, tell us about Good Game first.
40:28 Speaker 05 Yeah, so Good Game with Sarah Spain is the first and only, as far as we know, daily women's sports podcast. Yes, daily. It is a lot of work, but it is what was necessary. The folks who started the iHeart Women's Sports Network reached out and one of them was Sue Bird, and you can't say no to Sue Bird about really anything because she's a legend. But when she said, we want you to do a show for the network, what would it look like? And I had just gotten out of 13 straight years of daily radio for ESPN. I was enjoying my first year of not having a show every day and I stupidly said, It's gotta be a daily show because that's what's missing. Because in women's sports, you really just need the same cadence of learning about the star stake stats and stories that are out there so that you get excited about the games
41:12 Speaker 05 and want to watch them and attend them and buy the merch. And so we're offering that to people and people seem to love it, which is great.
41:17 Speaker 06 That's awesome. So you have a book. You just put a book out called Runs in the Family, An Incredible True Story of Football, Fatherhood, and Belonging. Give me the quick like breakdown.
41:30 Speaker 05 Well, I wanted to be like you, so I wrote it all in the two weeks between when your book came out and mine came out. Can you believe it? So fast. Um, no. So I wrote a story for ESPN and did a feature for ESPN a handful of years ago about this guy, Dylan McCullough. He's the running backs coach for the Las Vegas Raiders and grew up in Youngstown, post deal milk collapse, was adopted, never knew his birth family, his adoptive dad leaves when he's two. So sort of a troubled relationship with father figures, gets into football, gets recruited, has a great career until he gets a knee injury and becomes a coach. And finally in his 40s, the laws change in Pennsylvania where he was born, he can get his birth certificate. And he discovers after finding his mom, who never told the dad that she had gotten pregnant,
42:14 Speaker 05 was sent away to have the baby in private like they used to do in the seventies, finds out that his college football coach and mentor of almost 30 years was his birth dad all along. And neither of them knew it.
42:26 Speaker 06 Oh, my God.
42:28 Speaker 05 So it's this really unbelievable story, but also there's a ton in there about nature versus nurture, what we inherit through blood and DNA, what we inherit through family systems, emotional DNA, messages, lessons, all the things. And so I really wanted to be a book about him because his story is so incredible, but also a book that anyone would read and think to themselves like, what are the irrefutable things that I've been passed on that I can't reject or deny? And what are the things I get to choose to hang on to or pass on?
42:57 Speaker 06 I can't wait to read this. It really, really sounds insanely inspiring. And congrats. Writing a book is a big freaking deal. It's hard.
43:06 Speaker 05 I know you too. Congrats.
43:07 Speaker 06 It's a ton of work.
43:08 Speaker 05 Yeah.
43:09 Speaker 06 Oh, that's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, Snafu. It has been an absolute pleasure.
43:14 Speaker 05 Thanks for having me. It was really fun. I actually do feel like I was in history class, but with more cool internet terms of phrase.
43:23 Speaker 06 Snafu is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snafu Media, a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. Our post-production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me, Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim, Whitney Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino and Tori Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal review from Dan Welsh, Megan Halson, and Caroline Johnson. Special thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein, and everyone at iHeart Podcasts,
44:07 Speaker 06 but especially Will Pearson, Carrie Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Otosky, and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snafu: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest Screw-Ups. It's available now from any book retailer. Just go to snafu-book.com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.
44:40 Speaker 02 The scariest part of Halloween isn't the full moon or a chainsaw starting up in the distance. It's running out of Reese's Cups. Because when you open the door to four princesses, six superheroes, and three Draculas all reaching for your Reese's Cups, things can get scary fast. Especially when you were kind of counting on some leftovers. So this Halloween, buy extra. Because your neighbor Jeff dressed like a kangaroo? That's scary enough. Running out of Reese's Cups doesn't need to be.
45:10 Speaker 00 Halloween's almost here, and I've got plans. My first stop is Total Wine & More for cold beer, ready-to-drink cocktails, and a bottle of wine to share. And I know I'm getting the lowest prices. Get the fun started at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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