#355 Captain Royce Williams - 100-Year-Old WWII Veteran & Medal of Honor Recipient

Captain Royce Williams is a retired U. S. Navy fighter pilot, Medal of Honor recipient, and veteran of WWll, Korea and Vietnam war. During his 37-year Navy career, he flew 227 combat missions, including a remarkable 35-minute dogfight against Soviet MiG-15s over the Sea of Japan in 1952. The encounter remained classified for decades because of direct Soviet involvement. In 2026, at age 100, Williams received the Medal of Honor for his actions that day. Shawn Ryan Show Sponsors: Sheath. The underwear of legends. Go to https://www.sheath.com/SRS and use code SRS for 20% off. Go to https://helixsleep.com/SRS for up to 30% off. Get 50% off Sundays for Dogs with early access to the Black Friday sale at https://sundaysfordogs.com/SRS50 or use code SRS50 at checkout. Get 31% off Buoy unflavored liquid electrolytes for any drink with code SRS at https://justaddbuoy.com Try 30 days risk free. Go to https://bubsnaturals.com/srs and use code SHAWN for 20% off Collagen Peptides; on November 11th, 100% of net proceeds go to the Glen Doherty Memorial Foundation. Captain Royce Williams Links - Boy Scouts of America - https://www.scouting.org Honor Flights San Diego - https://www.honorflightsandiego.org National Medal of Honor Museum Foundation - https://mohmuseum.org Congressional Medal of Honor Society - https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/elmer-r-williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  Captain Royce Williams.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Welcome to the show, sir.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Thank you kindly.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  This is truly an honor to be able to do this.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:17Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  I'm so pleased.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  It's, um, yeah, it's a real honor to, uh, document you guys' stories and especially yours. So this is a incredible, uh, career you've had. And, um, and, uh, you know, the, the journey to the Medal of Honor you received is, is just amazing. So that is truly an honor to have you here and, uh, and to be able to document your story. So if you don't mind, I'd like to start you off with an introduction.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 1:52Speaker 01

  Captain Royce Williams, you're a decorated U.S. Navy fighter pilot whose life and career spanned over the, over the Great Depression, World War II, the Cold War, Korea, Vietnam, and the collapse of the Soviet Union. On November 18th, 1952, you fought a gang of Soviet, Soviet MiG-15s over the Sea of Japan for 35 minutes in what the Navy has called the longest dogfight in U.S. military history. After serving for 37 years involving 227 combat missions, 518 carrier landings, and over 4,500 flight hours,

• 2:36Speaker 01

  you retired from the Navy as a captain in, in 1980. The true story of that flight remained classified for decades because of direct Soviet involvement. In 2026, at 100 years old, you were finally awarded the Medal of Honor. And from my understanding, that went from a Silver Star to a Navy Cross to the Medal of Honor.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  It did, yes.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  Wow. And so, like I said, it's, it's an honor to have you here today. So I got you a couple of gifts. So one, everybody gets a gift.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Little something for the flight home. Those are Vigilance Elite gummy bears.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Uh huh, thank you.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Made in the USA.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Uh huh. Not China.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Not China. And the second gift, also made in the USA, is... You know, pilots always love pistols. I don't know how they love rifles, but...

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  This is the SIG Sauer P365 Macro, ported slide up front for recoil management. And, uh, there you go.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  It's a light.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Not bad, huh?

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, some, for me, my age and withering, uh, I had trouble with the holdings. So this is sweet.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  We got a young Marine out there that can help you, too. But, uh...

• 4:19Speaker 02

  We've got one that I see quite often named Ted, who's a famous sniper.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  And really, he's written numerous books. Yeah, owned several security organizations. Um, he's, he's a stud. And has his own firing range and so forth over in the desert. And I see him, uh, some of the groupie things that I go with. This is so nice.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Well, I got a friend named Jason over at Six Sauer, and I told him you were coming on, and he was ecstatic. And wanted me to get that to you, so...

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Beautiful.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Thank you, thank you.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  My pleasure.

• 5:09Speaker 02

  So I would like to, in a way, reciprocate.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I, uh, you know, I have a hat here. And behind is a, and a, for you, sir.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, that, uh, is the more important part of it all. Mm-hmm.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Surely.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  I'll read this after the show. Is that okay?

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Fair enough.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  This is incredible. Medal of Honor decanter, Royce Williams, Captain, U.S. Navy, and a set of whiskey glasses.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Exactly.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Beautiful. Thank you.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Hope you like it.

• 6:22Speaker 01

  I have, uh...

• 6:26Speaker 01

  I've never even seen a Medal of Honor in person.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Well, I'm just recently aware of it.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  How did that feel to go from Navy, from a Navy Silver Star to Navy Cross to a Medal of Honor at 100 years old?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  It felt fabulous in, in as much as the story of lies to eventually the exposure that the Soviets made, uh, revealing what really happened. Um, I'm kind of a military kid. My dad was World War I and big in the American Legion in the little town of South Dakota, where we had veterans from the Civil War, Spanish-American War, Mexican-American War, and World War I.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  And, uh, my brother and I, um, had gray uniforms and attended a lot of the meetings and so forth, and watched some of the movies, All's Quiet in the Western Front, from the time we were probably eight years old. And it had a lot to do, I think, with what we did when we grew up.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Your father, your dad, he was a, a World War I veteran, correct?

• 8:00Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And the, uh, hmm, the Army of, uh... Uh, that followed on after the combat, Army of... Anyway, great story. Um, he had a .45 pistol. He was a machine gunner. But he was standing and watching a small town where people were hungry. And there was a wild boar running down the street a half a block away. And the people yelling at him to shoot it, shoot it. And he took this .45 out, which is hard to shoot anyway. And he wasn't good at it, and he nailed it.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  And they all had a big dinner.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Oh, man. And your, your dad actually, did he try to enlist or commission for World War II?

• 8:59Speaker 02

  He, I suppose was drafted for it. I don't know. But he tried, oh, for World War II. Yes, he tried to get back in, and they wouldn't accept him. Of course, logistics wins wars, and he was very much a part of logistics work. He had a grocery business he turned over to women, and he went out on the farm and other tough jobs.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  You know, you grew up during the Great Depression.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Yes, indeed.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Can you talk about that a little bit?

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Cut down on variation, just same old, same old.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  One of my sisters, one evening, said, soup again? And we always say that, being in the grocery business, you have vegetables and fruit and so forth that's spoiled. So when it gets, if we can't sell it, then we eat it. My wife, mother, cans it and whatever, but, uh...

• 10:10Speaker 02

  My dad was just super nice guy. And there were people worse off than him. And some of them with large families. And the way the business went in, everything that was sold, when it was more than a candy item, would be written down on a pad in totals. And a lot of them couldn't pay it, but the books piled up. And after a while, he said to me, Roy, if you can collect anything on here, it's yours. He just basically donated.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  No kidding? What a hell of a guy.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, he was.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  How old were you when the Great Depression hit?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I started, I suppose, about four years old.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Four years old.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  And one of the first things, Herbert Hoover was president, and it hit me hard. I had five dollars in the bank and it disappeared. At five dollars then, it was probably a couple hundred today. Work on the farm, eighteen hours in the heat and all, up early and working late, one dollar. So I'm making twenty-seven dollars a month. And I gave up that job to be shot at for twenty-three dollars a month in the army.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Did you?

• 11:41Speaker 02

  And I put eighteen dollars of that in the bank.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  What did you spend the money on?

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Hershey wire.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  And before you, before we get to your military service, you met your wife at eleven years old.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  How did you guys meet?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  In Sunday school. First day, we moved from South Dakota to Minnesota because my dad modified the building he bought there on Main Street. Grocery up front and our quarters in the back. And when it was ready, we gove over. And the first Sunday, there she was in Sunday school. Cute and eleven and lovely lady.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Did you talk to her first?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  What did you say? Do you remember?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  No, no, I was, I was pretty timid. So it was one of maybe ten kids in the Sunday school class. And we were just sitting there with my brother also, you guys. And it took us some time to open up and talk to everybody.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  And you, let's move to your military service. Why did you decide to join the military?

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, it was built in what I had done up to then. My interest in the American Legion. I just felt and also I was big in scouting. And it seemed hand in glove. Nation needed you. So about two months after Pearl Harbor, I enlisted in the Minnesota Guard, which was nationalized. And I had two cousins in it that were killed in North Africa.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  They were killed in North Africa? What was the, you know, what was the sentiment of the country after Pearl Harbor happened?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Well, it was immediate and it was solid. Even a German family that were sort of rebels in World War I were on board for this one. And everybody had a piece of something. A lot of them started out by saving paper. And even with chewing gum, taking the silver part out and wanting it separate. Everything was being saved. And everyone had a hand in it. And it didn't take long before go down the street and you look in the window and there's

• 14:54Speaker 02

  either a blue flag or a star or a gold star. They, they donated. They gave what they could.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Everybody was pitching in one way or another.

• 15:08Speaker 02

  Everybody was pitching. It was just common.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  Were a lot of people enlisting at that time? Everybody wanted to serve the country?

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, and I really don't know, except people that were, like, the Guard that got nationalized immediately, they were in. There was no volunteering or anything. They were already a part of it and they weren't conscripted. But there was conscription, but an awful lot of volunteering, people getting in line to volunteer.

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• 18:37Speaker 02

  I wanted to fly off aircraft carriers.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Where did you hear about that?

• 18:43Speaker 02

  As a little kid, both my brother and I were aviation motivated. And we both joined Navy Cadet Program in due time. I had to wait till I was seventeen to go from Army to Navy. And I got in, in the Aviation Cadet Program.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Did you join at seventeen years old?

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  So you were in the Army for what, about a year?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  And then switched over? What planes were available to fly back then?

• 19:25Speaker 02

  Well, I started in an N2, an N3N. It was a Boeing airplane built for Navy. Most of them had floats and they were built for the Naval Academy. But I trained in pasture in Arkansas.

• 19:49Speaker 01

  These are prop planes, correct?

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, open cockpit, biplane.

• 19:53Speaker 01

  Open cockpit?

• 19:55Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, yes. These are made out of sticks and canvas, propeller, gas gauge is a cork. The float showing you how much fuel you have.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Wow. Did they have guns on them?

• 20:13Speaker 02

  Pardon me?

• 20:14Speaker 01

  Did they have guns on them?

• 20:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:17Speaker 01

  No?

• 20:18Speaker 02

  No. It's just basic training.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Training planes.

• 20:23Speaker 02

  However, my instructor was a, uh... Well, the people that fly, cop testers.

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  And he taught me some things that weren't in the syllabus.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  How long was flight training?

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Oh goodness. I got in, I went from Army in forty-two, Navy in forty-three. And I didn't get my wings till, um, forty-five.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  Got your flight wings during World War II?

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  In August of nineteen forty-five?

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Right. And all that was flight training at, I guess, five different bases.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Wow. Was your brother in that with you?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Yes, and not, well, Samuel. He went to Wolf Chamberlain for pre-flight, before primary flight in Minneapolis. And he went to pre-flight at the University of Iowa State. I went to primary flight at Memphis. And my pre-flight was at University of Georgia.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  How did it feel to get your flight wings?

• 21:58Speaker 02

  To get my what?

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Your wings, how did it feel to get your flight wings?

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Mission accomplished, what I wanted to do. And it took me a while, but I was focused and bingo, it happened.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Was your dad proud?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  Oh, indeed, yes.

• 22:20Speaker 01

  Was he there when he got your wings?

• 22:21Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  What did you tell him?

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Well, he followed it all the way. He knew, and as time matured, he was well aware I was getting my wings. My brother had already gotten his, because when I was still in the Army, he was in the Navy, in the cadet program. So he got his probably at least six months before I got mine. He carrier qualified in Lake Michigan, on the paddle wheel aircraft carrier.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  And went into combat and Corsairs in, on the Bedouin Strait, a little Jeep carrier off Okinawa.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  And what were you flying?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Well, I flew a whole lot of airplanes. It depends at what point. But I finally went from canvas and sticks to metal. And after a while, airplanes that, the wheels would come up. And they would have flaps and sophistication.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  I mean, you went from Hellcats and Corsairs to jets.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  I did. And in between was SPD and Bearcats. The Bearcat being my favorite airplane, very powerful airplane.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  What plane is that right there?

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Well, this one is the enemy. That's a MiG. It was the best airplane in the world at the time, nineteen fifty-two. And this one's a Panther. It's what I was flying at that event.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  How did it feel? I mean, you went from flying prop planes to those, to jets?

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  What? I mean, that has to be a staunch difference.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Well, flying is flying. The propeller develops torque, so you use your right foot to use the,

• 24:44Speaker 02

  the tail to correct for what's being imposed on your flight, especially landing and coming in for a carrier. Not so with the jet that thrusts you straight down and you don't need the rudder so much. And it's quieter. It's just plain smoother, doesn't rattle as much. Goes a little faster. But in that, flying is flying.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Were you, I mean, were you guys pilots, which is really excited to move to the jet?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  I was. I was coming from Monterey PG School to assignment in the air group that I eventually joined, but to a Corsair squadron, because I was qualified in the Corsair. And my wife and I were driving down and we're going to get a motel. I went by Miramar, the airbase that I would be working out of. And I drove over to look at the air group that I'd be joining. And there were the Panther jets.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  And I said, oh, that's what I really would like. So I got the name of the commanding officer and his phone number and found out he's the guy I knew at the University of Minnesota, was executive officer of the ROTC unit there. And I called him and told him, I'm coming in to the air group and to the Corsair squadron, but I really love to be in the Panther squadron. And he said, see what I could do. The next day I was in his squadron.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Wow. I bet that felt good.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  Worked out great.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  So you, the majority of World War II, you were training, correct?

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Yes, from the beginning.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  I didn't miss much of it. About two months after Pearl Harbor, I was in.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  What, what was, what was it like when World War II ended? What was the, what was it?

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Well, I was with a lot of people that didn't want to make a career of it. And they went downtown and celebrated. I just, I didn't drink till I was twenty-three. So I just stayed on the base and marveled at the changes about me that because the war was over and people were getting out by big numbers.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  Really? So they legitimately, they went in to fight for the country?

• 27:47Speaker 02

  Yes, they did.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  And when it was over, they were like, all right, we want to go back to everyday life?

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Not a lot of them stayed on. And of those that wanted to, because of the cutback, were forced out. And I didn't know why I wasn't, because I was a high school kid. And expect, and without the actual combat that a lot of them had. I got selected for regular Navy and sent to the University of Minnesota. And for eighteen months, I get a two-year degree. And I got a four-year degree, then sent to PG school, catch up.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  How long was it after World War II that the Korean War started?

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Forty-eight to fifty, fifty-one. Well, that's six years.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Six years.

• 28:55Speaker 02

  If I'm doing my math right.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Do you want to talk about kind of the conflict and why we got involved in the Korean War?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  The Koreans, but it sticks out there, not quite China, it's not, it's its own country, but Japan on one side and China on the other, and Russia right on top of it. Off of a lot of influence in that country. And the Japanese had been in there in a big way for several years in the long time of World War II, and then they lost it. And they also lost their position in Korea. And then the fighting took place between the North and South,

• 29:52Speaker 02

  the thirty-eighth parallel dividing them north above it in the upper border of China. And they became communist influenced. And then there was greed, looking at each other and influence who were, they were very unhappy. And in time, the North Koreans wanted to invade and become one country, all communists.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  And that's when the United Nations took a look and joined in and trying to protect the South. The Japanese, by the way, at that time backed off, but there were hard feelings between the two countries.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  The Soviet Union supplied aircraft, equipment, and advisors to North Korea and China. It secretly sent Soviet pilots to fly MiG-15s against American aircraft.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Yes. And when you say Soviet, of course, that includes Soviet and Russia at that time. Poland, Czechoslovakia, and so forth.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Stalin authorized Soviet pilots to fight under a layer of deniability. They flew MiG-15s with the North Korean or Chinese markings and were supposed to avoid situations where a captured pilot or wreckage would expose Moscow's role.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  When did you learn about this? Did you know about this as it was taking place?

• 31:43Speaker 02

  I did. I don't think it was a well-kept secret.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Did you know about these, so you knew about these MiG-15s and their capabilities?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I did, I knew about their capabilities. And we were not really involved with them. They were...

• 32:08Speaker 02

  I don't know the reason why, but all of their effort was on the eastern half of northern Korea, fighting against the air force. The air force had the responsibility for the eastern half, and the navy, pretty much the western half of North Korea. And after an early episode, they pretty much left the western, the navy portion, and what they had was in Russia, not involved in Korean War. Or so I thought so.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  U.S. radar detected aircraft approaching the carrier force, Task Force 77. You, now 27 years old, were about to take off on your second combat mission of the day.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Flying combat air patrol near North Korean-Soviet border area in a F-9F Panther with three others.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Can you describe that day?

• 33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was on the first mission of the day, and the weather was good, and the target was Oriyang, a city we had on the upper border of North Korea. That was ripe with manufacturing and warehousing, war materials. We were unable to hit it from our normal position with the task force located at the 38th parallel. We didn't have in-flight refueling in those days, and it was just out of range. And it was a pity, and our task force commander, Jaco Clark, Vice Admiral, decided we better do something about it. So he arranged for

• 34:06Speaker 02

  a task force of three carriers and 27 other support ships. His battleship, I suppose, a couple of cruisers, and then a lot of destroyers. And on the night of the 18th, we moved up off Chongjin, which is a rather large commercial shipping coastal city about halfway from 38th parallel to the Soviets, to the upper targets, and well within range. But that's where we operated in the ocean 100 miles at sea from Chongjin.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Wow. And what was the target?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  The target was the city of Chongjin's warehousing and manufacturing.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Do you know what they were manufacturing?

• 35:05Speaker 02

  I don't. War materials. I met probably general materials, which are also used by civilians, but supporting combat troops.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  And what were you, what were you guys, were you gonna bomb it?

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  What kind of, what kind of munitions were you carrying on the Panther?

• 35:26Speaker 02

  We were carrying bombs and rockets and 20mm cannons. I think I probably had 500-pound bombs, probably maybe six of them, something like that.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Wow. And so let's move into November 8, 1952, the day of the longest dogfight in U.S. military history.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Wasn't it 18th?

• 35:58Speaker 01

  November 18th.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it was my second flight of the day. When I landed, the weather was deteriorating, bad already, with clouds down to 500 feet and poor visibility with a blizzard blowing snow cold. And landing, they told me to get a quick lunch. I would be on the next launch in a combat air patrol. So I did, and messed with the three other pilots of that flight, none of them which I'd ever flown with before. We were all

• 36:42Speaker 02

  in this division in this extra flight because we had not kept up with all the rest in equal amount of combat flights because of cold or whatever. And so I was flying as the section leader. That's the guy who flies the two airplanes on the lead and his wingman. So it was four airplanes, and I have in charge of the second group, two, flying together. We briefed, and we didn't expect any combat threat, air threat, was gonna be a piece

• 37:27Speaker 02

  of cake, and went out in the storm, got catapulted, joined up, climbed through the clouds. While climbing, got a report from Combat Information Center, our control on the risk any the ship I was operating from, that there were inbound bogies, term for unidentified aircraft. Don't know whether they're friendly or not. So, in the clouds, and when we got on top, the clouds at 12,000 feet and in the clear, could see them coming from the north directly

• 38:09Speaker 02

  at us, maybe 60 miles away, but closing pretty fast toward each other. And at that time, the lead airplane announced that he had two warning, pump warning light, and they directed him and his wingman to return and remain above the clouds over the task force. So I'm now with lead, and they were directing me to intercept and find out who and what. So as they passed over me, I saw they were mixed.

• 38:52Speaker 01

  How did that make you feel?

• 38:54Speaker 02

  It made me feel that they were interested in looking us over, at least.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Were you nervous?

• 39:00Speaker 02

  No. I didn't think there would be any combat.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Really?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. There hadn't been any really on the, on the east coast. So I went about getting ready to fight. I charged my guns, I got the sight and everything going, turned on the master armament switch, and I was ready to fight. And directed to intercept. So as he went over the top of me, I identified them. They headed back north from whence they came, saying just returned flight. And I climbed to intercept, and they were faster

• 39:46Speaker 02

  and very high. Airplane was capable of flying at altitudes that Panther couldn't reach, nor the Air Force F-86s couldn't get up there either. It was a superior airplane. So I climbed with my wingman, who I'd never flown with before, in the direction to try and close the gap and look them over, following behind, but climbing to 26,000 feet in their direction, at which time they split into two groups. They were one formation, beautiful

• 40:31Speaker 02

  looking group, but the lead and a total of four airplanes broke off to the right and three to the left, separate formations. And I assumed that they were going in the land. They dove out of the clouds, out of the contrail level, to where they disappeared in clear air, well to the north of us. And I declared to combat that I had lost contact. And they said they had too, because as they became smaller group, they didn't show on the radar anymore. So they directed me to return.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Turn around, come back from whence I came to establish a barricade back and forth from the last sighting and the task force and just to be ready in case they were still interested. Certainly showed interest in just flying down toward the task force and then spotting that we had an air patrol and then turning around, well, with malice. And we had the new combat capability of NSA with the detachment on the Helena cruiser

• 42:03Speaker 02

  off the coast of Vladivostok, watching everything they were doing and listening to their instructions. And they were telling them to increase speed and to intercept. And with that in mind, it looked like it was pretty nasty. So in that turn to come back and establish a barricade would be going east and west, whereas the approach up there was north and south, this would be crossing it. And in that turn, the four that went off to the right and descended were down at my

• 42:45Speaker 02

  altitude and coming directly at my 10 o'clock position and loose formation so they could each fire on their own solution. And all four were shooting.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  So the fight was on.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  And it's just you versus four MiGs at this?

• 43:04Speaker 02

  So I had my wingman with me.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  You had your wing, who you've never flown with before, from what I understand.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  That's right. And as they came on in, I saw them firing and I knew the fight was on. And I turned hard into them as they went by me, ended up right on their tail end Charlie, fired a short burst and he dropped out of formation. And my wingman left and followed him on down and was out of the fight, no longer at 26,000 feet. But for the next 35 minutes at full throttle, 36, 37, whatever, 1,000 feet, 27, not 37, 27, we were engaged.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  So there were six planes, six MiGs, superior airplanes versus me and the Panther. And as the remaining-

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Six MiGs versus you and a Panther.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Odds aren't good.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  And yeah, these three, were four, they're now three, and they pulled up abruptly, showing off their might as they climbed rapidly, accelerating high above me. While the other three that turned off to the left came in from the other side. And I was going to shoot at the guy that just lost his wingman, but I saw the other two had already turned in and were shooting at me. So I reversed over and picked the lead, who happened to be a World War II ace, a well-known guy. And I got him in my sight. He was already shooting.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  And I fired a short burst and he stopped firing and turned away. And I'm quite sure he was hit. I don't say shot down, I don't think so at that point. But then his wingman, which was following right with him, was also coming and he picked me as the target and he's shooting and I reversed after this guy turned away and got the solution and fired. And he quit firing, but I think he was incapacitated, probably dead. He didn't maneuver at all, he just slid right underneath my airplane.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  And then, like I say, the other three came and there are now at least two of these in the battle going down and they no longer were in formation. They are taking a position above me elevation-wise. And when it's their turn, they're coming in on my tail and shooting at me. And then when they can no longer consider me a target, they would pull back up and to get back in and take their turn again. So whatever remains of active MiGs, that's what they're doing.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  They're just, with their superior capability, we're getting up and when it was their turn, they would come in until they were through firing and then they'd pop up and get in position again. Well, so my primary concentration is my tail. And that's kind of to start with, they were head-on targets, but no longer. Now they're in a superior position and taking their time about when they're going to shoot.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  And I'm quartering like this with a rubber gasket suit, immersion suit, to extend your life if you go in the water. Instead of dying in about 11 minutes, you'd live to about 20 minutes.

• 47:16Speaker 01

  So you had-

• 47:19Speaker 02

  It was so cold.

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• 48:06Speaker 01

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• 48:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 01

  -went back to base. You shot another MiG where you think you killed the pilot.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Well, the other guy didn't get back. Out of the, out of the seven, only one got back to base.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  So you've incapacitated two?

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  Shot one-

• 49:02Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  -killed another one, likely killed another one. Now there's, there's four left?

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yes. And one of them came down and made a mistake, then after I'm here. Don't drop it. And I'm flying like this in a turn and they're coming and they're shooting when they think they're in range, I guess. And I'm a little slower and so I may turn a little tighter and that spoils their aim. And when they're through shooting, they just put their nose up and climb up a couple thousand

• 49:51Speaker 02

  feet in position to come back in again.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  So my primary concentration is what's going on as me as a target. And over and over and over.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't want to drop it. They belong to my neighbor.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  One of them, after firing, instead of putting his nose up, he just turned, kind of leveled at my elevation like this, and I was able to turn around with him in range, and I fired at him close in, and pieces of his airplane started coming off, and I had to maneuver abruptly to keep from hitting him

• 50:56Speaker 01

  No, hitting.

• 50:58Speaker 02

  with my airplane.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  So there goes another one for sure. And as this went on, thirty-five minutes, longest air battle ever, I think.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  Still to this day.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Pardon?

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Still to this day, the longest dogfight in U.S. military history.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, with the weapons now being missiles instead of guns, this sort of thing won't recur. So one came in, and I happened to stance was right on his tail, and I fired, and he started dropping his smoke and slowing, and I was closing right behind him, and I don't know why, I was always just firing short bursts, I think about sixteen seconds worth, seven hundred and sixty rounds of twenty millimeter. I had to be cautious to stay in the fight at all,

• 52:04Speaker 02

  and these guys are firing seventy, uh,

• 52:09Speaker 02

  thirty-seven millimeter one gun and two twenty-three millimeters. So they had me sort of outgunned.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  So I'm behind this guy, and I decided I was going to make another squirt, and it's the first time I really leveled out instead of in the turn, which set me up for the guy that's coming in, which I was always battling against. I just lost it, boy, I have too much attention to the guy that's burning. And I pulled the trigger and went pop, pop, two rounds, and I was out of ammunition. And I looked back, and sure enough, I made the fatal mistake. Here's this guy right behind me in close range, and I booted the airplane around real hard and got it to a good angle off,

• 53:06Speaker 02

  but he got lucky and he hit me with a thirty-seven millimeter right in the wing butt, and it exploded in the accessory section of the engine and knocked out all the hydraulics, it cut the cable to the rudder, and I was in bad shape.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Shit. So you're outplained, outgunned, and outnumbered. You've taken three planes out at this point, and then you got hit.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, luckily, I was pointed toward the clouds with the storm that was covering the task force in my ship, and where I had to go for any recovery at all. And so I was pointed toward it and diving down, and this guy had just sitting ideally behind me just shooting, and I'm pushing the stick hard forward and then hard back, yo-yoing, and I see the bullets over me, then under me, and over me, and over me, and until I rammed into the clouds down there.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  It started from twenty-seven thousand into twelve thousand, the tops of the cloud bank. And we lost sight of each other, at least I lost sight of him, and there was no more firing. So I thought, gee, I better reject, but no. Had I done that, I'd have died, there's no rescue that could have gotten to me. So I stuck with it, knowing that the bases of the clouds were five hundred feet, lowering down and sort of sensing what I could find out about the flyability of my airplane, talking to the task force that I'm returning and for recovery, hopefully.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  And so we were in touch, and I'm just letting on down to below the clouds, and as I come in and I see the task force, and they're shooting at me. They were at general quarters, which means ready to fight and cleared to fire if they have a target that is not identified as friendly. And they had forgotten to identify me to the defensive forces, so they shot at me.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  So now you're taking blue on blue.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  Landing launcher had just been launched to go up and relieve me in combat, and saw what was happening and called them off, and so no more shooting at me. So I used the time to analyze my situation and wait for the carrier that was ready to launch another

• 56:09Speaker 02

  air-to-ground attack against Oriang, and they had to move them forward to make the landing area available for me. So move it ahead of the barricade, which is a device that comes up in the middle of the ship that protects anybody landing from going into the pile of aircraft that are parked forward. So when that was done, they were ready for me to land. So I had found out at that time that the airplane would stall out

• 56:51Speaker 02

  if I'm flying anything below a hundred and seventy knots, two hundred miles an hour. Normally come in about a hundred and five to a hundred and fifteen, so this was hot. So I notified the landing signal officer of this problem, and they passed it to the captain of the ship, who was in storm with a lot of wind, and the ship can develop thirty knots. They'd bring them in any speed they want, if he could compensate for it. Good, that they heat off that particular part of it. But while they are moving the aircraft forward,

• 57:36Speaker 02

  I use what capability I have to fly the airplane to try and get in position so that when the ship turned into the wind, as they do to land, I would be in position to make my approach. And in about ten minutes, I got a signal Charlie, I mean, land.

• 57:59Speaker 02

  And they were into the wind, but I was over here out of line, and because I didn't have elevator and rudder, I could go up and down fine, but I couldn't turn well. And so I'm coming at the ship to make the landing, pointed at it, but off angle to where I would be crossing the deck instead of lined up with it. And announced it as such, and the captain was aware, and the only time I've ever heard of it, the captain lined the ship up with me, and I made a nice landing.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 58:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  What was it like to be back on the deck?

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Good.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  All back?

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was safe, got popped out of it. Went into the ready room, which was full of pilots, because that's our station for general quarters. All, all the pilots, except for the group that just took off to re- replace me in the air. For the, the skipper of the squadron and his division.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Was the wingman there?

• 59:19Speaker 02

  My wingman? After I landed, all of them came in and landed. And, uh, hmm, unfortunately, the last one to land was the guy who was

• 59:33Speaker 02

  the flight lead. Was out of combat, didn't have anything to do with it. But the intelligence officer wanted to debrief him first to put it in the standard order. He was kind of mixed up and he shouldn't have done that. And there was pressure on him to get into the ship's intelligence officer, where Washington was on the line, wanting to know what was going on. And he held off and tried to get some information through debriefing. And he had me in there and he's not debriefing me, the only one that really was in the fight. Because he wanted to go one, two, three in order.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  And so finally, when the lead landed, he found out he had nothing to do with it. And he finally got around to me and I told him about the plane that I had to abruptly turn or run into him. And he finally gave up. I can see his confusion and concern. Washington's on the line, he wanted to hear right now. Well, he didn't know anything and he went in and made up a story. And he gave everybody a little credit for patting the back. And that became history.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  So he went in, wow. He went in and lied?

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  He did. And that was it for 50 years.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  Even though, when the Soviet Union broke up in, I think, 92, the newspaper in Moscow came out listing the event and listing the names of four people that were shot down. Shot down, not whatever else. So that left, what, three? And they did cover them, but they came, who was named, what, 2002? Came out with the history book covering the war and all the big engagements during that time, including the Air Force.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  And this event, only, only one returned and they list the name of the guy that came back. So there are two, we don't have names. We don't have positive knowledge of what happened to them. But they didn't get back.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  That is a hell of a mission.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  Exciting.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll say that.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  No, I think I didn't strive, I just, um,

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  was prepared, I guess.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  What kept you calm up there? Were you calm?

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Calm.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  What kept you calm?

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Nature.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  Nature.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  God. I just, uh, took it as it came and busy, busy, doing my best to be a good fighter pilot.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  And you're the only one in that plane, correct?

• 1:02:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  Oh, and later, hmm, a year ago now, I woke up at night and I thought I was talking to God. I really thought I was talking to God.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  And he's saying, Royce, all this confusion, people giving me, me, God, credit for your airplane getting back and landing on that ship. And he said, you missed it. You ran out of ammo and you got hit. There was no reason for you to stick around anymore. Had you been there just a few more minutes, you'd run out of fuel and you'd be dead.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  God told you that?

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  That's true, then, I wouldn't, lasted much longer up there and there had been no rescue.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  When did, when did, when did God tell you that?

• 1:03:59Speaker 02

  About a year ago.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  About a year ago? What did it sound like?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  Hmm, pretty natural.

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  Kind of a conversation, as kind of a

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  a handsome man, a fuzzy view, the but it seemed real.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  What did his voice sound like?

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Did it sound like yours?

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Not female, male. Bass.

• 1:04:31Speaker 02

  Maybe dinner.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Is that the only time you've talked to him?

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  I've had what I feel is communications, but nothing where I felt like I was personally talking to somebody. I thought I was dead one time for a few minutes. And everything went, and it just, uh, quiet. And, uh, I think there was one or two persons viewable. Then I came to and the room was crowded with doctors and everything. And, uh, realized something had happened.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  How many more missions did you fly after that, before you went home?

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  This was just the completion of their, our first, uh, online

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  tour. We'd fly about 30 days. And then we'd go into Yokosuka for resupply and R and R. And so this was the first one, I suppose, out of maybe

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  five more 30-day uh, mission before going home.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Was that the first dogfight you'd ever been in?

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Yes, first and only real bullets.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  It was very unusual of any naval aviator getting involved in aerial combat in Korea. And a little more so in Vietnam with, with different missiles.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  What, before we moved to Vietnam, I mean, what?

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  I, I read that you went back to look at the plane.

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  And it was gone.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  What happened to it?

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  Well, I came down to the hangar deck from my quarters. And I saw a second-class aviation bosom mate. And I said, I'm the pilot that flew the airplane back with the bullet holes in it yesterday. And I realized it's going to be put ashore and I'd like to take one last look at it. And I'm sorry, sir, but we pushed it over the side. He said, no, they're the people that handle the airplanes. But my very good friend, who spent 12 serious years investigating

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  the combat information, trying to get more data and get credit for me,

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  learned that by tracking the bureau number, that the airplane was offloaded indeed and restored and sent for duty as a trainer at, in Corpus Christi, Texas. Now, both of them sound very reliable, believable, but only one can be true and I don't know which one.

• 1:07:51Speaker 01

  How many times, how many bullet holes were in that plane?

• 1:07:54Speaker 02

  Well, really one. Uh, perforations, 263.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  263?

• 1:08:03Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. But mainly, this is from a 37-millimeter exploding right in the middle of the engine area.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  And, uh, putting holes more of them going out than going in.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  But I'm protected with armor plating from where that happened in the back of the seat of my airplane. And I wasn't injured. Except for my, looking around and bleeding at the neck from the gasket up there and spending most of my time looking behind me.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  That is incredible.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  How did it feel when Admiral Briscoe told you to never speak of this?

• 1:09:04Speaker 02

  It was almost a shock, but I accepted for what it was right there that I'm not going to, I'm not going to talk about this ever. And made up my mind and didn't.

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  How long was it before you could talk about it?

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  Fifty some years.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  Did you tell your wife?

• 1:09:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  Holy shit, wow.

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  I didn't tell anybody. I was told by Admiral Richardson,

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  who had spent a lot of time in intelligence, at a cocktail party at the tail of headquarters. Hey, Royce, there's more to this story than you're saying, isn't there? And I'm trapped. And I said, hmm. He said, well, I want you to know, it's no longer classified and you can talk about it. I said, well, gee, nobody's interested in, that's past history, years and years ago. I said, hey, I'll tell my wife.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  I said, hey, Cam, I told her about this thing and I had to keep it secret. She said, oh, Royce. But two years later, I told my brother, the Marine aviator, about it and he was, he was super surprised.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  What did he say?

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Oh, come on, Royce. Gee.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  So you came home from that, is that when you decided to get married?

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Oh, no. I came after my second South Pacific tour, I guess, in 1947.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  And I had gotten engaged by having leave at Christmas time in, I think, 1945. Yeah, because I had wings and I pinned my wings on her as an engagement device. And so we were waiting for an opportunity and I'm coming back from deployment and she picks the first of June as wedding date. And so happened then that you get, a large portion of your crew on the ship

• 1:11:45Speaker 02

  goes on leave when you get back to the States and somebody has to stay behind and that was me because calendar wise, it was going to set me up to get my turn for the first of June. And during that time, very busy because we were trading coursers for Bearcats. And I was the ensign, I was an ensign for four years. I was the senior officer there parlaying all these transfers. And then as they finished their time, it was my turn and I went home.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  My brother, now First Lieutenant Marine with a convertible Mercury,

• 1:12:34Speaker 02

  came back as my best man and went with him to Minneapolis to buy cars for my need as a married man. And I bought a Studebaker Commander on used car lot with six miles on it.

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  And I was a happy man and came back and I think the next day I got married.

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• 1:14:39Speaker 01

  At some point after Korea, Eisenhower comes into the picture.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  What happened there?

• 1:14:51Speaker 02

  General Eisenhower ran for president. I heard that a five star general was running for president and I thought it was MacArthur. But it was Eisenhower and he said that if elected president,

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  he would go to Korea and see firsthand what's going on. I'm accusing him for it.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  So

• 1:15:26Speaker 02

  the event was highly classified and few knew about it unless they were in somehow directly involved

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  one way or another. So he was elected and he was given a lot of old close information, including this event. And he said, I want to see that guy. And so arrangements were made to come to Korea and for me to have time with him. So I was prepped and sent to South Korea to stand by for his visit to Seoul. And when Admiral Jaco Clark, the Task Force 77 commander,

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  came on his way for that visit, he picked me up in Busan, South Korea and flown to Seoul. I was dropped off from the limo at a hotel while he proceeded to Eighth Army Headquarters, which today is University of Seoul.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  And he said, just stand by the phone and if this comes about, they'll send a limo for me. And I got the call on the limo and the trip, which was interesting in itself. An awful lot of security, every so many feet all the way around the compound. And I got to the main gate with the Corporal of the Guard Army MP Captain with the squad. And they weren't expecting me, so I more or less got jerked out of the car

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  and brought into the guardhouse. And they were about to quiz me when the phone rang. And it was Admiral Clark on the other end there and he's saying, do you have Captain Williams down there?

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  He said, what's your name? And I said, Williams. He said, yes, sir. And words got kind of heavy, I guess, at the other end and he took the phone away from me.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  And I did it, and it was snowing. And I arrived, and the Admiral was waiting for me at the door. And he brushed me out to get the snow off and comb my hair and get me to look decent. Follow him into this room that was loaded with very important four and five star secretaries and so forth. And once in there, I was introduced around. There were probably at least fifteen of such level personnel.

• 1:18:50Speaker 02

  And we're just chit chatting, and the President came in from the side, President-elect. And General Mark Clark said, "Gentlemen, the President." And we snapped to, and the President says, "That is, boys, that is." And he was brought over to me because he knew everybody else. And I guess I was the bunch of what was going on anyway. He took me by the arm and led me to a chair overstuffed with arms, pressed me into it, sat on the arm of it, put his arm around me, and looked me right in the eye.

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  And he said, "Lieutenant, before we get down to business, we ought to have a drink, don't you think?" I said, "Yes, sir." He says, "Well, we have Scotch and bourbon, water and soda." My son John's the bartender. "What'll you have?" I said, "A bourbon water, please." He says, "We have awfully good Scotch." I said, "Well, sir, I prefer bourbon." "Young man, we've got great Scotch." "Well, yes, sir, but I prefer bourbon." "Lieutenant, we've got the world's greatest Scotch." And I said, "Mr. President." "I'd drink bourbon."

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  And all these stars over there are dancing. "What's this snotty-nosed kid doing?" And so he says, "Oh, John, give him a bourbon water." And he did. And almost in a follow-on, it was similar that he stayed away from asking me anything direct that I had already been pledged to not talk about, to challenge me into getting trouble at all. But we talked about other things, about what he could do as President and so forth. And so he's asking me some questions.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  And amongst the brass over there, a lot of them wanted to provide the answer to me and through their whatever. And so I'm about to say something, and General So-and-so will get online and say his piece. And when he's through, he'd look back at me and say, and somebody else would pop up. And Lieutenant Williams, what were you gonna say? And it happened the second time. And after that, they got the picture that we were talking, not them. It was kind of...

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  But years later, I think that the whole room is full of people and the importance of how smart these guys are, and they're all drinking Scotch. There's something I'm missing. So I made a study, and I... Gee, this has got peat in it and charcoal, various flavors to high-powered Scotch that I just didn't like. Well, one day, years later, I got a call from an author that wanted to interview me. And I said, "Yes."

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  And he arrived, and we went out on the deck, and he had a bottle with him. And he says, "Do you have a couple of glasses with ice?" I said, "Yeah, good." "Well, give me a moment." So I went in, fulfilled, brought him back out, and we poured it, and I said, "What is this?" And he says, "Scotch." I said, "What? Scotch? This is... It tasted like really good bourbon to me." I said, "What is this?" "It's Monkey Shoulder." Well, captivated.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  And a lot of my friends, a lot of convert going on here with drinking Monkey Shoulder.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  What did Eisenhower say he could do as President?

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  He had the power to make changes and decide on equipment we use, procedures. And he just wanted to know what I thought about what the enemy did as compared to us and what I thought about this and that.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Did he make any changes?

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  I don't know if he had to follow through on any of that. But it was stay on top of technology.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Do you think he knew about the November 18 event?

• 1:23:54Speaker 02

  Oh, he was told about it, and that's when he said, "I want to see that guy."

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  I mean, do you think he knew the whole story?

• 1:24:01Speaker 02

  Sure. I think NSA has got to tell somebody, and I don't know anybody else. And right now, President Trump, when he decided to give me the Medal of Honor, jumped on them to release some information that they'd been holding close. They grabbed the film, everything, and they just hush-hush, and they let the lie live. I don't know why. They couldn't correct the story a little bit, but they just stayed out of it.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  How... Royce, how long was it after that event on November 18 that you got the Silver Star?

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Oh, when our tour, the ship's tour, air wing tour was over, was the war was sealed on in 1953. We went back maybe just before July, and that's when the truce was declared. And then on last day on the land, no longer in combat, we had a meeting on the hangar deck of the awards being passed out.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  And I was given it, another one of the pilots was giving it, my wingman was given the distinctly flying cross, and I didn't know what for. But I got a Silver Star, and so did Middleton. And I don't know what for, but because of what the intelligence officer said, they shared the wealth. So before he got back to the States, I got back to the States with the Silver Star.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Did you talk to the pilots that went up after you? When you landed and they went back out?

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  No. They... It was over by the time they got on top of it. They saw two planes headed back, and one of them made an emergency landing on an island and was killed. And only one guy made it back.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  You have some other stories where you almost died. One where you were flying and you had hypoxia.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  What is that story?

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was exchange duty with the Air Force, flying at Las Vegas, Nellis Air Force Base. And I was off on a flight by myself, flying F-86. And I don't know why, maybe it was testing a plane just out of... Being worked on on a periodic basis. I see it all as well. Anyway, I got a guy to join on me, and we were looking for trouble. And we picked on two other airplanes and got on their tail at 44,000 feet, which is

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  much higher than we usually flew. And I lost sight of them. And I asked my wingman, "Where are they?" He said, "They're right in front of you." I said, "What? Where are you?" "On your wing." And I knew I was in deep trouble. We have training about what to expect when you're hypoxia, when you're out of oxygen. And I knew I'd had it. And just before I passed out, I pulled a little green apple that has the handle to

• 1:28:01Speaker 02

  actuate a oxygen system in your parachute emergency bottle and pass out at 44,000 feet. And I came to by myself at 18,000 feet.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Could have been all the way, just a little longer.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  And you woke up sharp, able to take control?

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  Yes. Kind of groggy, but alert. And, yeah, from that point on, my aim was getting the plane back on the ground.

• 1:28:45Speaker 01

  Maybe that's another time God intervened, huh?

• 1:28:47Speaker 02

  There have been other times.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  And then you, let's talk about Vietnam.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  What were you doing in Vietnam?

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Then my first effort, starting in nineteen sixty-five, it was the wing commander on the USS Kitty Hawk. So I had several squadrons under my command.

• 1:29:19Speaker 02

  This was air combat. I was flying F-4s and A-4s. But we had A-6s and A-1s and EA's and the latest ship and the latest configuration of the air wing. This was top-notch.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  How did you like those planes?

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  I liked them.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  You didn't?

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  I did. Yes, I liked them a lot.

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  And the A-4s kind of small airplane, but was designed for nuclear bomb delivery. And it was, our assignment was air-to-ground targets. And we were using, um, we have guns. And sometimes I would carry an auxiliary gun in addition to that, but normally it was rockets and bombs for ground targets of any nature. And some of it's close air support for our troops. But mainly in Vietnam, we were north of there and our troops are all fighting in South Vietnam.

• 1:30:32Speaker 02

  And we were in north.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  You flew a hundred and ten missions there?

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  At least.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  At least?

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, more than. I ended up with

• 1:30:44Speaker 02

  two hundred and twenty-seven, I think, combat missions between Korea and Vietnam. So I don't know, split somewhat evenly.

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  What were some of those missions? What's one that stands out to you?

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. Um, there was a bridge between Haiphong and Hanoi. And it was very important, big bridge over a large river. And it had been attacked several times before, including missions jointly with the Air Force. And they had never destroyed the target and they had lost airplanes. It was well defended.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  And the Admiral in charge of the task force called me and the other wing commanders in. And he wanted us to form a joint

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  group, all of the ships there and their air wings and really go after it big time. And I was the senior wing commander and I knew the Admiral, we were members of the same church back in the States. And I said, really Admiral, if you don't mind, I would prefer to take it just my air wing by myself and not the complexity of trying to work with these other ships and everything. He said, oh, really? You're willing to do that? And it was just great with the other wing commanders. They thought that was great.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  And I had him tell me that later on when I saw him after the war was over. I appreciated it.

• 1:32:39Speaker 02

  And I did, and I designed it different from any other, I think, that had ever taken place. But I decided to go at it with just A-6s, which was the best airplane for the Korean War and was very capable airplane. And F-4s, which would keep up with it and give good cover with the bombing and so forth that take out the defenses. And we studied and studied all the crews that are going on it. We're well-prepared.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  And we, the A-6s took the bridge and the rest of us all took the defenses. And we did it without any radio. We took off and we didn't go above maybe two hundred feet. We just stayed on the water. We didn't turn on anything, no electric. There's no way they're going to know we're coming. And the A-6s take the lead. And down low, no communication, no, no

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  nav devices or anything. It was all quiet. And we came in hot and we hit the beach going, hmm, almost five hundred miles an hour. Then we popped up to target about ten thousand feet. They were going to start a dive. And to the target like that and now we could talk. They would know we're there. And they, the lead went in with the A-6s and we all took our other targets and took out the bomb or the gun devices. And they took out

• 1:34:40Speaker 02

  three of the five uh, sections of the bridge were in the water. We really did a job on them and we got out and we didn't lose a single airplane.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  I got interviewed after that by somebody from intelligence when I got back to say, what on earth was behind this?

• 1:35:10Speaker 02

  But it was successful. Anyway, big time.

• 1:35:15Speaker 01

  So did you just take a straight bearing from the water to the, to the, to the, to the target?

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Straight bearing.

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  Just popped on up, gun in the air.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  How long did that take?

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  The whole mission?

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  Just the, just the combat part?

• 1:35:36Speaker 02

  The part that's really important, I guess, is from the time we hit the beach.

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  And that was probably two minutes.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  Not long. We were on it and done and out of there.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Did you fly a lot of missions like that?

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  No radar, no communications?

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  I did a lot of air-to-ground, but none of them were that significant or well-defended.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Sheesh.

• 1:36:07Speaker 02

  I did one on a target that, with an airfield. Uh, and it was a, um,

• 1:36:18Speaker 02

  a ship harbor and it was loaded with Russian ships, bringing war materials. And we were instructed to stay clear of the Russian ships.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  That came on in and took out the, the targets on the field and so forth and and gun, gun emplacements. Uh, and got out of there, but it was enough that the ships got underway. They got scared good, but they were never attacked.

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  And still today, your favorite, after all the, all the jets, the Panther's your favorite plane?

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  What is your favorite plane?

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  The, uh, the F-8F Bearcat. My favorite airplane. It's the last propeller airplane I flew.

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  It was power. It was just, the difference between it and other airplanes, it was just better

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  at that time.

• 1:37:23Speaker 01

  Do you miss flying?

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  Sure. Not in any big way.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:37:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I fly what I can. I have friends that have airplanes. Uh, I don't get up by my finger, but I'm a hundred and winds. No big deal.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

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• 1:39:13Speaker 01

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• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Where did you go after Vietnam?

• 1:40:31Speaker 02

  After Vietnam, I was Apple Five A, Executive Assistant to DCNO for Air in the Pentagon. And then, Sybil Stockdale, wife of Admiral Stockdale, commander at that time, POW, Senior Prisoner of War in Hanoi. She was privileged. She had information I didn't know about, that her husband and Sybil were briefed on

• 1:41:05Speaker 02

  certain communications techniques, whereas he could communicate if given the opportunity to write in a way that there was code in there that could never be understood by the enemy that they were passing intelligence. And she'd come to Washington, and she'd be debriefed by the intelligence community. So she was there, and I was the head of prisoner of war programs. Well, I don't know, I'm out of faith.

• 1:41:47Speaker 02

  She was there and having lunch with the Secretary of the Navy, Chief of Naval Operations, Chief of Naval Personnel, and my boss, Chief of Naval Air. And during the discussion, she's saying, "If you don't take some captain/aviator recently involved in combat and put his career on the line for these guys, the POWs, you're not trying hard enough." And as my boss, Admiral, came back, passed by me into his office, patted me on the back, "You're gonna miss you, Royce."

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  And the next day, I was the head of prisoner of war programs, forming and everything from scratch, and I made quite a job out of it.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  What was the prisoner of war program?

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Well, for the Air Force, it was led by an Assistant Secretary of the Air Force, a two-star general, a colonel and his staff, and they didn't do anything but work in Washington, mainly within the Air Force. And the joint DOD portion of it, which I was a member with them. But I was a part of everything. I even worked with Admiral Herriman in the State Department, who during World War II

• 1:43:24Speaker 02

  was our ambassador to Russia. Spent a lot of time with Stalin. But I even met with him in his living room. But I got around in meeting the families all over the country. I even went out to Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines, and I went back aboard the carriers. I went everywhere. And I got in on writing some of the data for recovery when the prisoners are released. But I was full-time busy.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  You worked with your brother as an aviator too, correct?

• 1:44:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  What were you guys doing together?

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  Well, he was a Marine, and he had World War II combat experience. And he was stationed at El Toro when I was at Los Alamitos. And I'd been flying Hellcats and then switching over to Corsairs. And he came through as a visit to me, and I went into the ops officer, and I was ready to transition. I said, "My brother's here, he's well-qualified, and is it okay if he checks me out?" "Yeah, sure." So he stood on the wing. This is the way we checked out, very simple, no, what do we call them? Practice air devices, everything.

• 1:44:52Speaker 02

  We'd just get on the wing of the airplane, explaining how to start the airplane, what speed you take off, and what speed you approach to land, what altitude to start your loop, and where you go. So he said, "Go ahead." So my brother checked me out in the Corsair. And later on, I checked him out in the Bearcat. And I jumped in another one, went up, and we flew together. But we flew together in F-8 Crusaders, and we flew together in F-4 Phantoms.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  Jolly good to fly with my brother.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 1:45:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. I sat when I was wing commander on the Kitty Hawk in Vietnam. He was stationed at Zanang, and I landed there a couple of times just to chit-chat with him.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  No kidding?

• 1:45:52Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  What do you guys chit-chat about in the middle of the Vietnam War?

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  What are you doing? What are your targets? You know? What do you hear from home?

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  Wow. And you became an honorary Marine?

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  How did that happen?

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  I did nothing. Yes, big time. I'm really impressed. They had, well, the year before, I came into Pensacola, which I've done now a few years in a row. And they've always made a big deal out of it. And I came in, and they met me in the airplane and assisted me out. And that time, I was in a walker bound. I think I had a cane. And they had side boys lined up.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  And I walked through all of them and into another room, and then we had a small party and they came, escorted me to the hotel, and we had a bottle of Monkey Shoulder Scotch and started with a little party and got... But I felt so noble about the way they treated me. And the next year, they invited me to be a Marine, and they did it upright. There were two four-stars there that participated in the ceremony. And it was well done, and I'm pleased, very pleased.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  So in nineteen eighty, you retired as a captain.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  US Navy, serving approximately thirty-seven years.

• 1:47:45Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  Fourth, over four thousand five hundred flight hours. Three thousand jet aircraft, one thousand five hundred propeller aircraft, five hundred and eighteen carrier landings, seventy career war, Korean War combat missions, hundred and ten-plus Vietnam combat missions, and approximately two hundred and twenty-seven combat missions in total.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  That's insane.

• 1:48:15Speaker 02

  Well, there are friends I know that have over five hundred combat missions.

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  One of them was the Deputy CNO. And goodness.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  Years old, you're a living bridge through an enormous time period of

• 1:48:45Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:48:45Speaker 01

  American warfare.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  Certainly so.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Two thousand twenty-three.

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  I met Melena.

• 1:48:54Speaker 02

  The president's wife. That was a thrill.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  How was that?

• 1:49:00Speaker 02

  She placed the ribbon around my neck. The first lady.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  And she's a delightful woman.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  I mean, that was so in two thousand twenty-three is when it got upgraded to the naval cross, correct? The Navy Cross.

• 1:49:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  And then.

• 1:49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And that was a thrill.

• 1:49:24Speaker 01

  February twenty-six, you were awarded the Medal of Honor, but

• 1:49:33Speaker 01

  there was, um, what is this? It's the, I mean, there's a time limit for it to get.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Yes, five years.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  Upgraded, correct?

• 1:49:44Speaker 02

  No longer

• 1:49:47Speaker 02

  permitted consideration of an upgrade to Medal of Honor after five years.

• 1:49:53Speaker 01

  The Congress had to waive the time limit.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  The two thousand twenty-six National Defense Authorization Act, which allowed your case to be considered despite the passage of more than seventy years.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  Congress and Gerald Isa just did a whole of a job on my behalf. Wonderful, wonderful.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  You know,

• 1:50:21Speaker 01

  you've been through the Great Depression, World War Two, the Korean War, Vietnam, Desert Storm. You saw the global war on terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  What, what do you want people to remember about you the most?

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  That I cared.

• 1:50:49Speaker 02

  I cared about everything I got involved in.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  I did a lot at scouting.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  And they did a lot for me.

• 1:51:02Speaker 02

  I have two awards behind Eagle. And the last one was done aboard the USS Midway Aircraft Carrier Museum. And it was fabulous.

• 1:51:19Speaker 02

  And Congressman Isa

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  left Washington just in time to get there at the beginning of the ceremony.

• 1:51:31Speaker 02

  And at the end of it, he had to return immediately back to Washington on the job. He took time out to be there.

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Certainly made me feel fine.

• 1:51:44Speaker 01

  I bet it did. I'll bet it did. How about this law you got passed?

• 1:51:51Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. Um, I was instructed in the Fleeter Gunner Unit with, uh, Faygo, which was a predecessor to Top Gun. I had been in exchange duty with the Air Force at the Fighter Weapons School in Ellis. And, uh, knew Boots Boussey, the writer of No Guts, No Glory, who had nineteen killed. And, uh, brought back information and kind of, uh, updated regarding fighter tactics. And as such, was the tactics constructor at Faygo. And one of my students was the first commanding officer of Top Gun.

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  And he gives me credit for everything he learned about fighter tactics. So as an instructor, I was flying FJ threes, which are very similar to an F eighty-six. And, uh, one day, uh, we only had three, so I gave them to the students. And I decided I could run the flight from the tow airplane that's bringing the tow for aerial combat or gunnery. And so I bumped the tow pilot and decided to fly it and happened to be the Panther that was doing the towing.

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  On take off, it lost power, uh, not total, but not enough to let me continue fly or climb, uh, at thirty-five hundred feet. And, uh, at the end of the runway at Hell Central, where this was happening, is a, uh, crevice, is a mini Grand Canyon and a place you don't want to put your airplane. Uh, so I got rid of the tow I was towing to give me some additional distance. And, uh, and, uh, keeping the gear up and everything clean to extend, uh, my glide as far as possible.

• 1:54:06Speaker 02

  Uh, I made it across this mini Grand Canyon and crashed. And the airplane broke up and I broke eleven vertebrae and was in pretty bad shape. And so was sent to the, uh, hospital in San Diego for quite some time. And, uh, when they cut the cast off and so forth, uh, I went back to flying. But, uh, with

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  medications that were not permitted for pilots, but with the authorization of BuMed.

• 1:54:50Speaker 02

  And, uh, I did that for a lot of years and during the Korean War as well. But I mean, Vietnam, when we came back from the first tour in Vietnam as wing commander, the senior flight surgeon talked to his buddy at the medical, uh, organization in Pensacola. And they decided, hey, we want to see this guy. He's saying, gee, every time he really gets tired and, uh, kind of needing help in his eighteen, twenty-hour days, we give you more of this and more of that. And he says, well, what?

• 1:55:33Speaker 02

  Well, for instance, thyroid body produces about two grains a day, and we have him on five and a half. And they're saying, we want to see this guy. So I got ordered to go back to Pensacola and studied. And when they got through, they said, there are changes in your body. You no longer need all this, uh, medication. Stop taking it and go about your business. Well, not that easy. Your body doesn't transition that easily. And I was losing my hair and things were pretty sad. And it was reviewed at BuMed and they said, this can't be.

• 1:56:14Speaker 02

  So they talked to BuPurse and they gave me orders, you're authorized for command and see naval aircraft in combat, not at the actual controls.

• 1:56:26Speaker 02

  So I'm saying to myself, how do I run an air wing in war? Combat and not fly? So the only answer was I've got to be airborne and NFO. And I ordered myself to go to the NFO school and get designated and went about businesses in combat in the back of an F four Phantom. And I did that throughout until I was relieved. And I went to Washington as OPo five A, working for the senior naval aviation command.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  And as such, he's the head of the board with other senior Navy Marine admirals, generals that make policy. And they, they meet, met in San Diego. And my job made me secretary of the board. And item one, NFOs, what do we do about them? Example A, Captain Williams, two sets of wings. I knew some of these guys. And we get into it and they say, what is there about the job that precludes command? And I said, frankly, can't think of a thing. In several cases, it was enhancing.

• 1:57:52Speaker 02

  Well, we worked that over and learned that it was against the law, Title X prevented command for NFOs. And there weren't any senior enough to really worry about it, but they'd probably ended their job as lieutenant commander and no position beyond that.

• 1:58:16Speaker 02

  So, uh, I had learned about Title X before when I was head of promotion plans in BuPurse and had gone to Congress and changed the law. So we did it again and, uh, got authorization to get rid of that law. And equal opportunity for NFOs.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  Probably most important, we've got four stars, admirals and generals, NFOs.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  Nice work.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  Nice work.

• 1:58:55Speaker 02

  I'm very proud of that.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Should be.

• 1:58:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:58:59Speaker 01

  Well, sir, would you like to end this with a prayer?

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  Do you want to lead it?

• 1:59:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:59:06Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 1:59:10Speaker 02

  The Heavenly Father,

• 1:59:14Speaker 02

  Divine God,

• 1:59:18Speaker 02

  Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

• 1:59:27Speaker 02

  I came before you with great gratitude.

• 1:59:36Speaker 02

  My preservation.

• 1:59:39Speaker 02

  You told me that you loved me.

• 1:59:45Speaker 02

  You were there, Lord, I knew you, time after time.

• 1:59:54Speaker 02

  You gave me a wonderful woman as a life partner.

• 2:00:02Speaker 02

  Friends to see me through troubled times and good times.

• 2:00:14Speaker 02

  I praise you.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  We praise you. We thank you.

• 2:00:23Speaker 02

  You look after our country.

• 2:00:27Speaker 02

  God bless America and to you all credit.

• 2:00:34Speaker 02

  Amen.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Amen.

• 2:00:41Speaker 01

  Captain?

• 2:00:43Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  It was an honor.

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  Thank you kindly, thank you. This is a noble event. I just love being here. Kind of a hallowed room.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  I love having you.

• 2:00:56Speaker 02

  And a gun.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  You like that gun?

• 2:01:01Speaker 02

  I love that gun.

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  No matter where you're watching The Sean Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything, please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous, head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.

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