431: Clancy Updates, Chris Watts Getting Married, Kohberger Psych Eval Released & Eugene Horsch

This week on Headline Highlights: Lindsay Clancy’s journals and searches shed new light on her mental state, while the defense challenged key evidence. A Michigan family of eight was found shot to death, with investigators uncovering multiple fires and missing smoke detectors. Newly unsealed records reveal Bryan Kohberger’s autism, OCD, ADHD, and ARFID diagnoses, raising questions about his future appeals. A “Philly House of Horrors” investigation uncovered missing women, weapons, drugs, chemicals, and disturbing digital evidence. Chris Watts is reportedly set to marry a woman he met while behind bars, who moved closer to him and changed her name to “Lizzie Watts”.. If you’re new here, don’t forget to follow the show for weekly deep dives into the darkest true crime cases! To watch the video version of this episode, head over to youtube.com/@annieelise. .🔎Join Our True Crime Club & Get Exclusive Content & Perks..🎧 Need More to Binge? Listen to both of my weekly true crime series 10 to Life & Serialously with Annie Elise wherever you get your podcasts on the Annie Elise Channel!🍎 Apple Podcasts | Where you can also unlock access to 100+ and growing extra exclusive deep dives.💚 Spotify🔴 YouTube🎙️ All Other Platforms.📸 Follow Annie on Socials Instagram: @_annieeliseTikTok: @_annieeliseSubstack: @annieeliseFacebook: @10toLife.⭐SponsorsNeuro Gum: For a limited time, you can get 20% off your first order at http://neurogum.com by using code: AE. Ro-GLPS: Go to http://RO. CO/AE to see if you qualify.👗 Shop Annie’s Must-Haves! ShopMY: bit.ly/AnnieElise_ShopMy Amazon: bit.ly/AnnieElise_Amazon.🫵🏻 Get Involved or Recommend a CaseAbout Annie: www.annieelise.comFor Business Inquiries: [email protected].📚 Episode Sources ABC News | ABC 6 | Abby Blabby | CBS News | Click on Detroit | Court TV | FOX 29 | Fox 13 | Inside Edition | JustinTheNickOfCrime | NBC Philadelphia | NewsWeek | New York Post | People | Reddit | TMZ | Wikipedia | WZZM••••••••••••••••••🚨Disclaimers1️⃣ Some links may be affiliate links, they do not cost you anything, but I make a small percentage from the sale. Thank you so much for watching and supporting me. 2️⃣ Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research. 3️⃣ The views and opinions expressed in this video are personal and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer, or company. Assumptions made in the analysis are not reflective of the position of any entity other than the creator(s). These views are subject to change, revision, and rethinking at any time and are not to be held in perpetuity. We make no representations as to the accuracy, completeness, correctness, suitability, or validity of any information on this video and will not be liable for any errors, omissions, or delays in this information or any losses, injuries, or damages arising from its display or use. All information is provided on an as-is basis. It is the reader’s responsibility to verify their own facts.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Are you hosting the holidays this year? Better start decorating early. At Lowe's, with decor for as low as $10, it's easy to make every room feel festive. Plus, shop viral favorites like the Lowe's Mini Bucket, Cobalt Mini Tool Cabin, and other fun finds they'll love. Big smiles and low prices mean everyone wins this Christmas. The holidays are on now at Lowe's, in-store and online. While supplies last, selection varies by location.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Most meeting note takers get the easy words right and the important ones wrong. The client's name, the acronym. Whisper Flow Note Taker is built to get the hard words right. It takes notes on any meeting platform. Zoom, Google Meet, Teams, even WhatsApp calls. Keeps every meeting searchable and connects to Claude or ChatGPT. So you can ask, what did we agree to last Tuesday? Free to try on Mac and Windows at whisperflow.ai. That's W I S P R flow.ai.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  If your child lives with type 1 diabetes, a low blood sugar is hard enough without trying to convince them to eat another chalky glucose tablet. That's where Glow Gummies come in. Delicious glucose gummies made with fast-acting dextrose to raise blood sugar quickly. In a soft gummy they'll actually want to eat. They're vegan, gluten-free, dye-free, don't melt or stick to teeth, and taste just as good as candy. Head to glowgummies.com, that's G L O W gummies.com, and use code PODCAST20 for 20% off.

• 1:33Speaker 03

  Hey, true crime besties. Welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialishly.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of Serialishly with me, your host, Annie E. Lys. Happy Thursday. Hope you're having a great week. I know it's been a wild week with the defense now up for the Lindsey Clancy trial. There is a lot going on, lots of new cases, too. So we have so much to talk about today. If you're new to the podcast, Thursdays are the days where it's headline highlights, talking through everything that's happening this week in true crime. And then earlier this week on Monday, a deep dive came out into an all-new case, breaking everything down, which this Monday actually was a sit-down interview I had with Chris Hansen. And I have seen it getting picked up now on like the Daily Mail,

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Yahoo, Hollywood Reporter, because he shares his true thoughts about the new Robert Pattinson movie, and it's a hot take. So that episode came out on Monday. And then on Tuesday, another deep dive came out on my second true crime podcast feed called 10 to Life about, once again, a horrific family annihilator. And there's, it's just like, hello, they're left and right coming out of the woodwork, right? And so now we are talking about all the headlines happening this week. And as you can see, if you are watching the video version of this, I have the distinct honor of being joined by the founder of Sunkist Orange Soda.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh.

• 3:23Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  I knew there was some sort of a dig coming.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Not a dig. You look like sunshine.

• 3:29Speaker 04

  That feels like a Romeo and Michelle title.

• 3:31Speaker 03

  It's like, you're like a Fanta girl. Fanta, Fanta, don't you want to? Fanta, Fanta, just like this bright bunny.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  Halloween right now.

• 3:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  And also, you're kind of giving little boy prep school.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Here's the thing, I am in my cardigan era, okay?

• 3:50Speaker 04

  She really is.

• 3:51Speaker 03

  Guys, I'm being responsible. I'm growing up. I'm coming into my own. I'm wearing my cardigans. I have my natural hair color. I have short nails, like.

• 4:00Speaker 04

  She's also wearing jorts that are very similar to mine.

• 4:03Speaker 03

  This is growth. This is growth, okay? Okay, so how are the sales at Sunkist?

• 4:11Speaker 04

  Flourishing.

• 4:12Speaker 03

  Flourishing. How much Red 40 is in it?

• 4:14Speaker 04

  I was just gonna say their non-natural ingredients are just selling like hotcakes.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  We love it, and we love a hot cake. So like I said, we have a lot to talk about. We're gonna talk, of course, all things Clancy trial, updates happening there. We're gonna talk about this new insane House of Horrors case that is coming out of Pennsylvania. We also are going to talk about my favorite douche canoe on the planet, Brian Kohberger, because fucking, of course, he's back in the news.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  You've got two of them this week.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  Who?

• 4:46Speaker 04

  Your two douche canoes.

• 4:48Speaker 03

  Who?

• 4:49Speaker 04

  Watts?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, we're gonna talk about Watts, too. You're right, we are gonna talk about Watts. Oh, God. Okay, so yeah, we, let me just get right into it because we have a lot to go over.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  Well, I can't believe how divided people are on the Clancy trial.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Okay, I don't think there's division anymore. I think.

• 5:07Speaker 04

  You don't?

• 5:07Speaker 03

  I think I'm the minority.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, okay, I should say, yeah, you are the minority.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I'm the division. No, no, no, I will say this. And actually, for all my Apple Podcasts listeners, I released a bonus episode yesterday where I do these bonus episodes that are not scheduled or planned, and they're called Annie Rants, where I just kind of go off the rails and start talking, and it's not edited, it's not scripted, it's not clean. It's just like, I go, and I didn't even tell you this yet, Amy. I released one yesterday all about this and about what's been happening this weekend trial and some of the craziness out there. And I really like let loose. But one of the things I mentioned is that, while yes, I am in the minority of thinking that Lindsey did do this,

• 5:56Speaker 03

  I have talked to no less than 15 experts over the last three weeks. Detectives, prosecutors, defense attorneys. In yesterday's episode, I also like talked to a very well-known defense attorney. You guys know who it is, but I'm not gonna say his name. But all medical experts, every single expert I've talked to has said there is a 0% chance that Patrick did this. So while I'm in the minority, I'm not alone there in, like, in that sense. All of these people are with me. And yeah, I go into more of that in yesterday's episode. So if you want to ever know what unhinged Annie sounds like, all you have to do is listen to one of those rants. And you can get them either on Apple, because they don't go to Spotify,

• 6:39Speaker 03

  they only go to Apple on the Annie E. Lys Plus, like, subscription thing. You can see it right on your Apple interface, on your phone, on the podcast app, or on Patreon as well. So, well, some of the comments already on that episode are a little.

• 6:53Speaker 04

  Well, even our own, I feel like it's so mainstream now that when people ask me about it.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  Obviously, I share my opinion, and even our friends think that it was Patrick.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  I know, I know. Um, I know. Well, let's actually start there, then. Let's talk about what's going on in the Clancy trial. So, starting off today, there were a lot of big things that happened last week in the trial that I just want to touch on before we go into everything this week. Both of them gave the jury a little bit more insight into what Lindsey was thinking in the months and also even the days leading up to that horrible night in January. So first, investigators testified about journal entries that Lindsey had written on her phone. And she was constantly making notes about how she felt, what she was thinking. And these were incredibly heartbreaking to read. You could tell she was devastated, distraught. She thought she was failing as a mother. She knew something wasn't right. She just wanted to feel well again.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  And in one entry, she wrote about feeling depressed because she felt like she couldn't parent her third child, Callan, not the way that she parented her two first kids. She said that she felt less connected to him after she stopped breastfeeding and said that she felt like she resented Cora and Dawson because they prevented her from treating Callan like her first baby. She wrote, quote, "I'm sad and depressed. I'm sad that I stopped breastfeeding. I feel not as connected with Cal now. I think I sort of resent my other children because they prevent me from treating Cal like my first baby, and I know it's not fair to them. I know that. I was feeling so depressed last evening when Cora and Dawson came home from school. I want to feel love and connection with all my kids. I'm also probably having a bit of an internal conflict

• 8:33Speaker 03

  because my whole life I've wanted to have a lot of kids." So just having this realization of this isn't what I thought it was going to be. I'm feeling disconnected. I want to be the best mother I can be. And obviously, that's not what I'm feeling right now. And kind of just before I go into more of the journal entries, this ties into something that happened this week in the trial. One of her colleagues was up on the stand, and she testified about a day at work at the hospital, because as you know, Lindsey was a labor and delivery nurse, and where a woman had come in, a patient, and she had thoughts of taking her own life, and she was pregnant, and taking the life of her baby as well, obviously. And this coworker of Lindsey's asked her,

• 9:17Speaker 03

  "Have you ever heard about Andrea Yates?" And Lindsey was like, "No," which isn't unheard of. I mean, it's a very old case. A lot of younger people haven't heard about that. And not that Lindsey was incredibly young, but like a decade younger than me, pretty much. And when the coworker started sharing with her about the case, Lindsey started crying, saying, "How could a mother ever hurt her children?" Like, and so you can see, like, she's just really conflicted with everything that she's feeling right now. In another note, Lindsey wrote about being terrified that something would happen to her kids or that she would do something wrong that would affect them and their development. And that reminded me a lot of Cara.

• 9:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 9:57Speaker 03

  Um, our friend who had postpartum psychosis and ended up taking her own life. She felt the blame that what she was doing was negatively affecting her child. And again, I'm not gonna go into a lot of details of that because it's nobody's business, but it's awful, and it's very, very real.

• 10:13Speaker 04

  I think that's fairly common with intrusive thoughts. Is you think that like you're going to harm the children or that something you're doing is causing harm to them?

• 10:22Speaker 03

  Yes. Then there was also an entry that had been modified just one day before the children died. In it, Lindsey wrote, "Medication stole my motherhood and my life. Prescription medication stole me from my own body." And that one really stands out because, given everything we've heard about her medications and her mental health throughout that, throughout the trial, she knew something was going on. She knew she didn't feel right. Also, fast-forwarding to this week, when her mom took the stand, she had been texting her mom, saying, "I need you to come here, Mom. Something's not right. I'm sick. I'm having a hard time." And she even confided in the kitchen to her mom that she had thoughts of harming the children. And so the prosecutors then last week started presenting Lindsey's internet searches,

• 11:05Speaker 03

  which this is where things get a little bit more complicated because a Massachusetts state police sergeant testified that a computer inside the Clancy home had visited a website called Suicide Methods. This was in August of 2022. Now, here's where it got conflated, okay? They were talking about how. Patrick was in Lindsay's Facebook, how he was making these searches about self-harm, methods, all of these things. But and I guess what everybody was running with. When you broke down what they were saying and what the evidence outlined, it was more of a hyperlink hop. So for example, if you were looking right now at the Tupac trial,

• 11:46Speaker 03

  and then it took you to a link of drive-by shootings, then it took you to a link of firearms. What's the best weapon? What's a silencer? Things like that. It's like where it takes you from one thing to another, not independent searches as though you're searching for firearms. What? How do I get a silencer?

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Do they know what the independent search was?

• 12:04Speaker 03

  Yes, it was for the singer Tom Hall, who died by self-harm in 2021. And then it like linked to all of these other things. And so immediately Lindsay's attorney Reddington pretty much pushed back on that. He said, yeah, the computer belonged to Patrick, not Lindsay. And Lindsay was actually at the doctor's appointment for Dawson when this search happened. But it's a very controversial thing because and not to keep referencing yesterday's episode, but this is something I talk a lot about. Some of these theories that are coming out, while yes, it's good to ask questions. It's good to push back and try to break things apart. You have to include the whole story, not just the bits and pieces that help bolster your narrative.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  So like if you're going to talk about him using her Facebook account and that computer and searching self-harm and methods and all that, then tell the whole story of how he searched.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Everybody come to their own conclusion.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  Right. He searched the singer, then it was a hyperlink hop to different things. It wasn't independent Google searches. And so, but when people are just sharing that on social media, you see it, you believe it, you repost it and you run with it, you know? And so, I don't know, it's just, that's one of the things I wanted to talk about. Prosecutors also introduced a search from Lindsay's phone where she had searched, can you treat a sociopath? Now, this happened three days before the children's death. However, the defense pointed out that there were other searches that the prosecutors weren't emphasizing, including searches for hallucinations, which was on January 19th, and intrusive on January 20th.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  So some people are thinking, or I guess asking the question, did she think she was a sociopath because of the thoughts that she was having of harming her children? Like, so can you treat a sociopath? Or some people are saying, of course, she knew that Patrick, like she was searching that because Patrick's a sociopath. Which the truth is, we don't know why she searched that. And that's what you also have to say is fair. Bring up the question for both sides, but we don't know for a fact why she searched that, right?

• 14:06Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, either narrative could work, either it could talk about him, or if she felt truly that she couldn't be treated, would that have moved this along?

• 14:15Speaker 03

  Exactly. There also were some completely normal searches in there as well. Things like pre-made goodie bags, best kids movies. And that's honestly, that's one of the things that makes digital evidence so interesting in cases like this one. Because you're getting these tiny snapshots of somebody's life, which can range from deeply concerning things to completely ordinary things within the span of days. And for people saying like, she was texting Patrick that night when he was out at CVS with smiley faces and things like that. Like she was fine, she was happy. He said she's a good mom. She like hearted it or whatever, but put the smiley face. An active psychosis happens in a split second. I could be acting completely normal right now, talking to you, and then bam, it hits.

• 14:58Speaker 03

  So it's like you, because and think about that too. If there was precursors to knowing that somebody was in an active psychosis state, you'd be able to intervene. You'd be able to see that something's going on. That's not the case. And, and you can hide it in plain sight.

• 15:12Speaker 04

  Well, and how many times in self-harm situations do you hear? I was with them the day before. I just talked to them. I, I mean, I feel like that happens more often than not. If there were these glaring signs, again, to your point, they would have been addressed.

• 15:26Speaker 03

  So now the jury is hearing not only what Lindsay told the people around her about her mental health, but also what she was privately writing and what she was searching for online. So this week, the prosecution rested their case. That was Monday morning, and the defense is currently now in the process of presenting their evidence. So far, they have questioned Lindsay's mom, Patrick's mom, who are both in Lindsay's corner on this. But there was one really gross thing that I saw. When Patrick's mom was on the stand, the prosecutor said, basically, I'm paraphrasing here, like, you're a Catholic woman, right? So murder is a mortal sin, right? Trying to almost imply that that's the reason that she's standing by Lindsay,

• 16:06Speaker 03

  because being a murderer is a mortal sin, like this weird, just like, what does that have to do with anything? Yes. And, um, and then, as I said, the mom, Lindsay's mom said how, she shared those text messages. She also shared how Lindsay in the kitchen, which she said Patrick was there too, how she said she's had thoughts of harming her children. And there was something that did come up that I will say, I'm not trying to make excuses for it. I do have questions about, and I don't know if you saw this, I talk about it a lot in yesterday's episode. The Apple Watch registered her resting heart rate at 57 beats per minute. And the question was, if she was moving around, killing her children, how would her heart rate be that low?

• 16:50Speaker 03

  She must have already been incapacitated by Patrick. And, um, because then like her phone activity also, or her Apple Watch activity abruptly stops, the health data stops syncing, then her phone activity continues for a moment, like all of these things. I don't know the answer to that. I know that last night, I was sitting on my couch, or not last night, the night before, I was sitting on my couch, and I looked at my resting heart rate on my Oura ring, and it was at 68.

• 17:13Speaker 04

  Mine's always high.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  It's always high. So, but 57 is very low. And they were saying that her heart rate throughout the day was between 80 and 90. So it is a significant drop, absolutely. I mean, my husband Jeremiah, his heart rate is like, he's dead, basically. Even when he's sleeping, I think his heart rate's like 44. I'm like, you good? Um, but here's what I'm saying, like, I think that is a valid question, 1,000%. Like, how did her heart rate drop so low before, like as she was still supposed to be like, you know, committing these murders and stuff? But again, bringing in more evidence, I don't know how all of that stuff works to where if you take your Apple Watch off, is there a delay in how it sinks? Is there still activity reading and it just slows down?

• 17:58Speaker 03

  I know even, which is totally different, but I remember I had to stop wearing my Apple Watch when I would work out because even my tattoos blocked it from reading the sensor accurately. So I would never get an accurate read. So like, I'm not tech savvy and they haven't had an expert yet to clarify this. But like, I don't know if then when she removed her Apple Watch on her own, it would have some sort of delay, or it would have a different reading, or it would slow down, or you know, what happened? Or if she was so heavily medicated that her heart rate dropped that low? Or if when you're in a psychosis, your body starts shutting down because your body just takes over. Remember, she described in her 2026 filing, she described recalling,

• 18:40Speaker 03

  hearing voices direct her on what to do, telling her children, go to God, baby. And this isn't from the night of, it's not from a couple of weeks after. She recalled this this year in her civil suit. So who knows if when your body is shutting down in that way or protecting yourself if your heart rate drops? I don't know. But I do think it's a fair question. So like, you know, I'll give the TikTokers that for a moment, like, it's, it's fair. So the defense is continuing with their case this week. I think that they still are illustrating that this is a mental health crisis, that this wasn't, that I don't think they're trying to say she's not guilty. Which actually, before I wrap up with this segment, let me say that at the start of the defense's case,

• 19:25Speaker 03

  he did ask the judge to find her not guilty. However, here's where it's getting confused. People are thinking that he's saying, he was asking the judge, based on the state's presentation of the case, find her not guilty of murder and all the charges. That's not what he was saying. He was saying, the Commonwealth has now presented their case for why they think she was legally and criminally responsible for these murders. They did not meet the burden of proof for that. So because they didn't meet that, that the burden of proof for that, it shouldn't be introduced to the jury. You should find her not guilty by reason of mental health and, or by insanity, or however you want to say it. And so that I also am seeing getting mixed up online. Like, oh, he was trying to say like mistrial or end the trial, she's not guilty.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  That's not what it was about. He has never argued that she did this. And even when he had filed the stipulation, trying to separate things out, they were conceding to the fact that she did this. And while technically, yes, she can be found not guilty, that's not what's going to happen here because the trial isn't to determine whodunit or what happened. It's to determine her state of mind. And that's why I think too, through the rest of all of this, of the defense's, uh, case that they're presenting, that the line of questioning he's going to have, even with Patrick, is going to be very similar, like with the mothers, where it's more so to understand her mental state, leading up to and at the time.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  It's not going to be to catch in an aha moment or create reasonable doubt that she is the one responsible. It's to talk to her state of mind when all of this happened.

• 20:59Speaker 04

  Well, and I mean, obviously, it's easy for everyone to get caught up in this like salacious trial and they have their own speculative thoughts. But it's like at the root of this, how do we prevent this from happening again? And when you think about the fact that she did tell so many people and she was seeking care, I think that should really be what most of the conversation is centered around.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  I agree, because now it's turning into a goddamn circus.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  I know. And that's kind of what, for me, is frustrating. I mean, a lot of it, but it's just, let's figure out how we can help prevent this from happening again. And this poor woman, regardless, did not get the care she deserved. So.

• 21:38Speaker 03

  Well, and to that point, it's like, if everybody's arguing that Patrick did this, you're taking the spotlight away from the seriousness of postpartum psychosis and the effects of that and the results of that. So with so many people getting swept up in the Patrick of it all, the husband did it, all of this stuff, what happens when another woman is on trial a year from now, or two years from now? And because that, the postpartum psychosis of it all was so watered down and Patrick was the focus, they're not valuing that experience or what happened? Like, you're taking away the agency from Lindsay even saying that she did this herself, you know?

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Well, that was my first question to you when we, when this like controversy started happening. As I said, well, what, how, what's her reaction to all of this? Now her husband is the one potentially being accused from a public standpoint, and you're the one who admitted to all this. Like, well, how do you feel about all of that?

• 22:32Speaker 03

  And she's obviously, I mean, I do not think there is a possibility at all that she is going to be testifying. And she hasn't spoken out on anything because why would she? She's on trial right now. She's not going to advocate for Patrick right now and do anything that could potentially sway the jury in thinking that she that she was mentally okay. I wouldn't be surprised though, if once this trial wraps, if she does make a statement, um, maybe she won't. I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me. Maybe trying to just be like, he didn't do this. And can we just talk about the freaking exercise band thing? And how people all over the weekend were posting the photo of his new wife at a marathon.

• 23:12Speaker 03

  Being like, oh my God, she's running and she has exercise bands tied around her waist. What a sick monster. Did it? I'm like, first of all, zoom in, it's a long sleeve shirt. You can see the seam for the cuff on it. And you think that this woman is after her husband just seemingly got away with the perfect crime and murdered his three kids to be with her. You think this woman's going to go out in broad daylight, run a marathon with this trophy or this like s- symbol of remembrance of my husband got away with murder. I'm going to tie the murder weapon or a version of the murder weapon around my waist and run this marathon like, get a grip, get a motherfucking grip. It's crazy.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Really reaching there.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  Okay. So this next one that we're going to have, we have an update for is one that we talked about on headline highlights a couple of weeks ago. And there's been some more details that have come out, but it hasn't really answered many of the questions. It's actually created more questions because there's still a lot of uncertainty around this and it's obviously just horrific. This is the case of the family of eight that were all found dead in their Michigan home after a murder self harm unfolded on the morning of July 24th. So just as a quick recap, first responders were initially called to a neighborhood in Grand Haven around eight 49 in the morning after someone reported smelling smoke in the neighborhood.

• 24:28Speaker 04

  And when firefighters had arrived within minutes, they couldn't find where the smoke was coming from and reportedly didn't smell the smoke either. Then at 11:46 AM, a neighbor called 911 after seeing white smoke coming from a specific house. So of course firefighters returned, they put out the flames and that's when they found all eight family members dead in different bedrooms inside the home. And investigators had determined that they had all been shot. But now new details show that the fire itself was apparently much more deliberate than investigators first realized. The Michigan State Police Fire Investigator concluded that the fire was intentionally set. And investigators believe that Chris Kara Kiyovitz, the husband and father of the family,

• 25:11Speaker 04

  started it using gasoline, paper towels and a lighter. The reports say that the investigators found a red gas can in the kitchen that still had gas in it, along with a grill lighter on the kitchen island. Investigators also say they found multiple suspected spots where the fire was started inside the house. And that there was at least one fire in each of the six kids bedrooms, another under the basement stairs, and another in the basement storage room. They also found partially burned and completely burned paper towel rolls, suggesting that there had been multiple areas where he tried to start that fire. Some of those fires went out because there wasn't enough oxygen while other of those fires made complete destruction in the house.

• 25:55Speaker 04

  But then there was something super eerie. The investigators noticed that several smoke detectors seemed to be missing from the home. And at least one was taken from the main floor and another was pulled from the basement wall. So obviously when we look at this, there's the fi- fire starters, starting it in multiple rooms.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. He wanted to burn all the evidence.

• 26:16Speaker 04

  Moved the detector. So this was a clear plan, premeditated, which is horrific. And I can't even imagine what's going through your head when you're putting fire starters in each of your six kids bedrooms.

• 26:28Speaker 03

  After you just have shot them.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Like, it's sick. I mean, it's, it's crazy.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's deranged.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Well, now there's also information surfacing about the dynamic inside the home. Now remember, Chris was fired from his job at the American Heart Association right before all of this happened. And there was a lot of speculation that maybe that was the cause and the reason behind all of this. But there was also a lot of talk about he and Mandy's marriage and if there was any struggles that could have potentially made him snap. Well, it turns out there was something going on years earlier that people think may have played a part in Chris's mindset during all of this. Mandy had reportedly written a subreddit called As One After Infidelity in 2024 about Chris allegedly cheating on her with a younger intern a few years earlier.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  She said that if it weren't for their children, she wouldn't have worked towards repairing the marriage. And she basically forced herself to keep going because of the kids, which we obviously hear all the time. She allegedly wrote, he was divorced and older than me. Fast forward 10 years and five kids, he was cheating with the intern again, the same age I was when I was the intern. And continued with, I kept telling myself, I love my kids more than I hate my husband right now. They have no idea. I faked it till we made it.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 27:48Speaker 04

  Which is obviously very telling. She also talked about being terrified by the idea of leaving because they had six kids. And that there had been major red flags in the marriage that she just chose to ignore. And this is important because Mandy's family said that she was actually very, very private about these matters with people in her real life. So if all of this stuff was true, nobody in her life had any idea that any of this was happening.

• 28:14Speaker 03

  Well, that makes sense that she would go to Reddit because you know, people are always on the Reddit communities. They're sharing advice. They're sharing thoughts. So it looks like she was probably looking for a community and looking for advice or commentary on her experience, but like too ashamed to go to her family about it.

• 28:33Speaker 04

  Which I was going to say, it kind of brings, I've had this feeling for a while now is I've always wondered why there's so much shame around cheating, but there is. And I've been the same way where you were embarrassed to tell somebody that that's happening, but at the same time, why should you be embarrassed?

• 28:48Speaker 03

  I think it's more like embarrassed because if you choose to stay, you don't want to be judged. And so if she wanted to stay because of her kids and she was going to tell her family he cheated, they'd be like, leave him. He sucks. Like fuck that guy. And then if she's like, no, I'm staying for my kids. She probably wouldn't want the judgment at family get togethers. She wouldn't want them to like treat him differently. That's my guess. I don't know.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  I get that. And there's also been some unverified claims circulating on Reddit from someone claiming to be Chris's stepfather. And this person does talk about the possibility that him losing his job could have been a motive for Chris doing all of this. This person alleges that Chris sent an email shortly before killing his family and himself. And then it says a lot more about his mindset when this all happened. They claim that Chris said he was feeling like he was quote, living behind a mask, losing his sense of self and believed that his children couldn't be happy if he couldn't financially provide for them. They said that Christopher's last words in the email he sent in his sick mind, sounds like he really thought that he was actually doing the right thing.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  He seemed to think his children couldn't possibly be happy without the financial security that he had been providing. But then again, none of these Reddit claims have been confirmed. So we do have to treat them just as allegations, not as facts. So the exact timeline and motive are still being investigated. And at this point, the biggest question is still what we talked about a couple of weeks ago, which is why did this all happen? And again, I mean, we've talked about this in several of these family annihilator cases where it's like, why do you feel like the only option is to take out the whole family? And in this case, he's feeling the finances, but it's like, kids don't give a shit about all of that.

• 30:27Speaker 03

  I know. But if he, I, again, like, I could see where if he's the breadwinner, he has the shame that it comes with that. And I remember hearing, or we talked about that there were allegations, again, not proven to be confirmed of possible embezzlement happening and that that's why he got fired. So if it was like, not only do you no longer have an income, but you're bringing shame to your family for that. Not that it's obviously excusable, but I could see where someone may get there in their mind.

• 30:54Speaker 04

  But why not just harm yourself? Like you have shame, great, bye. But like what?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah. Million dollar question.

• 31:04Speaker 04

  I, I really don't understand that.

• 31:07Speaker 03

  Million dollar question. You guys know how crazy life can get, especially when you are juggling work, kids and a million other things. I'm always trying to do little things to make life easier for my future self, whether that's getting organized the night before, putting out the outfit the night ahead, planning ahead for my family, whatever it is. And one thing that is so important, but very easy to put off is life insurance. But that's where Policy Genius comes in. It's a free online marketplace where you can compare life insurance quotes from top insurers side by side. Their licensed team can help you answer your questions, handle the paperwork and help you find affordable coverage that fits your family's needs.

• 31:45Speaker 03

  With Policy Genius, you can find 20 year life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage. So head to policygenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save. That's policygenius.com. All right, so now let's go into my most hated villain of all time, Brian Kohberger. Brian, mother effin' Kohberger, who like, I'm so sick of talking about. But if you remember, back in 2025, Brian's defense said that he had a psych eval done, and that he had been diagnosed with several mental health disorders and disabilities, one of them being autism. And because of that, they said that he should be disqualified from the death penalty.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  They also, if you listened to an episode a few weeks back, once we knew that he was trying to like, throw out his plea deal and his guilty plea, I had talked about how they were resurfacing all of these diagnoses, diagnoses, diagnoses, whatever the hell you, however you say it, and that I felt like it was strategic in some way to say that he wasn't fully understanding the plea at the time he accepted it. But here's where we're at. So obviously, they brought in the autism diagnosis and tried to say, hey, because of this, you should remove the death penalty, which the judge was like, uh, no, bro, that's not how it works, absolutely not. But other than that, we didn't really have any other information. It seemed like it kind of came out of left field, but we didn't really know much more. However, now, Brian's psychological eval from when that happened, back in February

• 33:12Speaker 03

  of 2025, it has been unsealed. The evaluation was done by Dr. Rachel Lawson Orr, a clinical neuropsychologist who was hired by the defense as an expert witness to talk about his mental health. And when she was hired, the defense made it very clear that this evaluation wasn't being done to argue that Brian was mentally incapable of standing trial or understanding what he was doing. They were actually doing it because they were in this huge back and forth argument with the prosecution about whether Brian's mental health and developmental disabilities should be classified as mitigating or aggravating factors. So let's talk about this evaluation. According to the documents, Brian met with Dr. Orr six times over the course of about three months, so that he could do this testing and these interviews.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  One of the first things that Dr. Orr noted was Brian's, quote, "restricted range of facial expressions," saying that he had a stoic effect, which, if you've seen any photo of Brian, it's always the same straight-faced, mean mug look, except for that one disgusting cheesy smile face where his teeth are all yellow and he looks like the fucking Joker. But he also, he usually just has like that, you know, serial killer face. She also said that his smiles were often very slight, his social smiling was inconsistent or completely absent, and that the way that he would furrow his eyebrows during lighter conversations sometimes made things feel awkward. Which that's pretty much in line with everything we heard from the TA, from people who encountered

• 34:39Speaker 03

  Brian, that he was like this awkward guy.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  He's a creep.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, a creep. She also said that Brian had several, quote, "atypical social behaviors," things like lack of gestures, atypical tone and cadence when talking, awkward interaction, and an overall lack of fluidity in conversations. He apparently also had an inconsistent understanding or acknowledgement of humor, often redirected conversations back to his own experiences, and sometimes gave odd or short responses to questions. And then, there was one detail that I think we all have heard and know about Brian by now. Dr. Orr noted that he occasionally had a, quote, "intense gaze." She also described him as having, quote, "impulsive tendencies throughout the evaluation,"

• 35:23Speaker 03

  saying that he broke the rules during the evaluations, that he would rush through certain tasks, and kind of like he thought he was in charge, which again, very much is in line with everything we heard about during his schooling. And interestingly, a lot of these same behaviors weren't just noticed by Dr. Orr. His parents and his two sisters also described a lot of the same issues during their interviews with her. They said that they had tried social coaching with Brian and repeatedly gave him social feedback, essentially trying to teach him how to act in certain social situations, but apparently, it didn't really change things. So all of this ultimately ended with Dr. Orr diagnosing Brian with Level 1 Autism, OCD, ADHD, and ARFID, which is Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder.

• 36:06Speaker 03

  But those weren't the only diagnoses that were mentioned. Dr. Orr also said that Kohberger had met the criteria for four other diagnoses at some point in the past: developmental coordination disorder, an unspecified depressive disorder, anorexia nervosa, and opioid use disorder. Now, this didn't really surprise me when I read that, because we know that he was a past heroin addict, and that he was also very overweight at one point, and that he lost all of that weight, he became obsessive over it, that he was running all the time, he would do those late night runs, all these things, trying to stay very lean and thin. But here's where I think that things could get interesting going forward. Like I said earlier, Brian and his team didn't claim that these diagnoses made him

• 36:51Speaker 03

  incapable of understanding what was happening in the court process. I mean, in fact, he specifically signed in the plea agreement that he understood what the plea meant. He clearly knew the stakes. But I can't help but wonder, because now that we have this evaluation laying out his history, the diagnoses, his developmental issues, and his family also saying that he struggled with these things basically his whole life, I wouldn't be shocked if some version of this comes back up during his post-conviction relief process. And that is what I said literally a year ago, when they started floating the ADHD, the AFib, or AFRID, whatever, all of these things. I was like, oh, this feels like it's laying the foundation for an appeal coming, or to

• 37:33Speaker 03

  try to get ahead of it, to lay the, like, again, lay the foundation of why he wasn't in his right state of mind, or why he couldn't have understood what he was accepting, or why he did accept it because he's so socially awkward and all of these things. And then sure enough, as we know, a few months ago, the post-conviction relief came up, which is basically a precursor to an appeal, if you will. And now the evaluation is getting unsealed. So feels strategic and intentional. And so I don't think it's necessarily going to be like, and I didn't know what I was doing type argument, but I think it's fair to ask, could he eventually say that some aspect of his mental health did affect his decision-making or his ability to fully communicate with his attorneys? Kind of playing into that whole ineffective counsel argument.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  I don't think anything is beyond Brian Kohberger at this point. I think he is being a little pussy shit in jail, and he can't, yeah, and he can't hack it, and people are threatening him, and he thinks life would be cushier on death row. So he's trying to do what he can to either get fully exonerated, or to go to death row and live a better life. So we're just gonna have to wait and see what happens.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  So do you think the purpose of this evaluation being pushed by his defense is, obviously it'd be great if he was exonerated from their standpoint, but do you think it's mainly to try to push him out of the death penalty? Like, which are they gonna argue further?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  No, no, no, he wants the death penalty.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  Or, I'm sorry, to, for the death penalty? Like, cause I mean, you have ADHD, you suffered from an eating disorder, that doesn't necessarily mean anything when you're talking about the crime that he committed.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Right. Probably, I think that he probably wants the death penalty now. I think that life in prison without parole is horrible for him, and that he's like, I'd rather have a cushy life on death row until ultimately getting hit by the firing squad, which, pass me the gun.

• 39:24Speaker 04

  I was gonna, sooner rather than later. Okay, so this next one has been all over the news, and I know that you guys have messaged Annie and myself about it. It's known as the Philly House of Whores, and it's absolutely horrific. And so we're gonna get into it. There's a lot of twists and turns on this one, and so I'm sure you're probably gonna do a deep dive on this one.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  I'm literally making notes right now, as you're speaking.

• 39:48Speaker 04

  Perfect, because this one, it's like, every new detail, I feel like we always say this, and I'm a broken record, but every single detail that comes out, it just keeps getting more and more horrific, and also so many questions about what actually happened here. So, back on June 19th, a federal park ranger noticed a black BMW was parked in an area that it wasn't supposed to be. And when he approached the vehicle, he said he heard a woman in the passenger seat say, "You're going to hurt me." The driver was later identified as 44-year-old Eugene Horsch, and the ranger noticed that both Eugene and the woman had sores on their bodies, were moving kind of twitchy, leading the ranger to suspect they were probably using drugs.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  The ranger also reportedly saw a butane lighter, tweezers, and multiple pairs of scissors around the front seat. So because of this parking violation, what he had overheard from this woman, and the suspected drug activity, the ranger asked them for identification. A records track showed that the BMW was registered to Eugene, and the woman allegedly provided an ID with the name Blair Tonzelli. Now, the problem was, she wasn't Blair. Blair was actually a woman who had been reported missing in 2023. The woman told police that Eugene was the one who had given her that ID, and they were both then taken into custody. And officers say that when he was taken into custody, officers found a switchblade knife,

• 41:12Speaker 04

  a glass pipe in his pocket, and inside the car, they found two loaded guns, including one with an obliterated serial number, another switchblade, a cattle prod, a collapsible baton, handcuffs, drugs, and a fake DEA badge. So this guy was packing a lot of illegal stuff. Now, after Eugene was arrested, investigators then went to his house with a search warrant, and inside that house, that's where they found things that, at the moment, nobody can explain. Inside, they found ammunition, drugs, a marijuana-growing operation worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and another gun. Then in the basement, they found what is being described as a large amount of various

• 41:56Speaker 04

  chemicals, including a 55-gallon drum with connections to water lines, which I'm not super familiar what that could possibly be. I was gonna ask you if you knew that.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Probably to get rid of a body. If it's connected to a water line, like maybe acid, maybe it's like mixing chemicals.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Okay. I didn't know if it was like explosive related or

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Maybe I would imagine to dispose of evidence. That's my guess. I don't know.

• 42:19Speaker 04

  So more than 20 containers holding unknown substances were taken to a lab in Chicago for testing and analysis. And investigators still don't know exactly what the chemicals were used for, but officials say they determined that if some of them were mixed together, then it would have become very, very dangerous. So obviously not a good situation. Then investigators also found a handwritten note allegedly referencing Ted Bundy and methods for quote disposing of trash. And so this is where everything really escalated. Police kept digging and that's when they found more than 600,000 images, 70,000 videos and more than 10,000 pages of writings, manuscripts and drawings across multiple digital devices and hard drives.

• 43:03Speaker 04

  It's giving Duggar.

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  600,000 images. So on the first hard drive that the detectives examined, they found photos and videos from inside the home that showed two women, Maribel Freses and Gabrielle Emorondo, and they both appeared to be dead. But when investigators figured out who was in these photos, that's when the whole situation changed and just turned really dark. Because both of these women had been missing for years. 27-year-old Maribel was last seen in February of 2018 and 22-year-old Gabrielle had been missing since September 2012. Now their bodies have not yet been found, meaning the medical examiner can't issue a cause of death or death certificates, but investigators believe that both women have died based on what they have uncovered so far.

• 43:52Speaker 04

  Investigators have said that of all the evidence they are working through, it's extremely graphic and dark, and they've only gone through five to seven percent of the photos and videos so far. Now, as for Eugene himself, he is in custody on federal charges connected to firearms and the fake federal credentials. And he has not yet been charged in connection with any of the missing women or with any death investigation at all. And what's interesting is that he has also carried a pretty lengthy criminal history himself. In January of 2004, he was convicted of aggravated assault and aggravated battery by vehicle and sentenced to two to four years. Then in February of 2014, he was convicted of possession with intent to distribute a controlled substance

• 44:36Speaker 04

  and sentenced to another two to four years in prison. Then finally, last year in November of 2025, he was convicted again of possession with intent to distribute. So this guy is no stranger to the criminal system. Eugene's attorney has since raised one very interesting point about the evidence found inside the home, though. His attorney says that Eugene's father had lived there for a very long time and had a quote, "very interesting past." So I was seeing this as obviously teeing this up to it's not his fault. So that brings us to Raymond Charles Horsch. Raymond was a photographer and filmmaker, but his work was described as dark and often focused on women in sadomasochistic settings.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  So just for anyone that's not familiar with sadomasochism, it's basically getting pleasure often from something sexual, either giving pain or receiving pain. And so it sounds like these photos were dealing with women.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  BDSM.

• 45:37Speaker 04

  Yeah. There's another part of Raymond's history that becomes especially important here. His ex-wife, Amy McHale. Raymond and Amy were married from 2004 to 2008 and Amy disappeared in 2016. And the home is currently the center of this whole investigation and was reportedly the last known location of Amy McHale. So there's a lot of missing women here, obviously, and they're uncovering all these images, photos, all of which are very dark. And then we've got the son and this mysterious woman who was in the car with an ID of somebody who is also missing another woman. And that's where all of this just gets, of course, very convoluted and unsettling

• 46:17Speaker 04

  because investigators are still working through this enormous amount of evidence and they've only gone through a very small, tiny part of it. And so far that evidence has already, like we said, allegedly shown two women who appear to be dead, two other women who are still missing. But then again, Eugene has not been charged with any of these crimes or disappearances. So right now, the investigation is of course ongoing and we'll bring you updates as they come. But it's from what I read and from what I've seen, this house was not, um, the police had been there before mainly for drug charges. So I don't know what the extent of a search there was, or when they went there to arrest him last fall for those drug charges,

• 47:02Speaker 04

  if they had any other suspicions, because it feels like had they gone inside the home, they probably would have recovered some of the stuff or at least had some questions to further that investigation. I don't know. What are your thoughts?

• 47:15Speaker 03

  It depends what was on the search warrant and yeah, what they were able to actually collect and look for.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  But that's probably why they haven't charged yet too. They need more evidence.

• 47:24Speaker 04

  But it just always surprises me that these people who have been in trouble before so openly do things that they're not allowed to. Like if you are someone who's hiding all these secrets in your house, why are you going somewhere and parking where you're not supposed to with paraphernalia out in the open? It's just, is that just because you feel like you're never going to get caught?

• 47:45Speaker 03

  Probably. They probably feel untouchable, I would imagine to a degree.

• 47:49Speaker 04

  Well, I hope that these families of these missing girls finally get some answers because I would imagine they've just, I mean, could you imagine after all these years, finally maybe potentially getting some answers?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Oh, I know. All right. Well, to another douche canoe on my list, Chris Watts. Didn't think that name was going to come up anytime soon, but we need to take a moment and talk about this. The news started coming out last week and I needed to just like pause, sit with it, research it, figure out what the hell was really going on here. But apparently Chris Watts is going to be a married man again.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  He's going to the chapel.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  Going to the chapel. Now, as a reminder, you all know Chris Watts. If you don't, he's currently serving multiple life sentences at Dodge Correctional Institution in Wisconsin for murdering his pregnant wife, Shanann, their two little girls, Bella and Cece, and his unborn child, Nico, who Shanann was pregnant with. And he apparently has applied to now marry a woman that he met while behind bars. I wonder what Nicole Kassinger thinks of that. Her name is Lizzie Henderson. Now, Lizzie is 39 years old, originally from Ohio, and according to reports, she and Chris have been together for about 15 months. In fact, she has visited him 23 times, which those aren't little quick, you know, wave through the glass type visits.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  These are reportedly contact visits, which these visits can last up to three hours. So some people have said that conjugal visits aren't allowed at this particular prison. So these contact visits are apparently kind of the ones like you see in movies or TV shows where they have a room full of tables. You're sitting across from the table, you're talking, you're able to sometimes like hold a hand, maybe you can hug, maybe you can't. Um, but you can sit face to face rather than through the glass. However, they, like I said, usually you can still hug, kiss at the beginning and the end of the visit, but like not during the whole visit. So apparently she's so serious about this that she and her mother actually moved from Ohio to Wisconsin so that they could be closer to him, which I don't know.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  That seems so bizarre to me that your mother's even signing on unless for some reason she's elderly and Lizzie is her caretaker and so she has to move with her. Otherwise, does the mom support this? I don't know. I have a lot of questions. Now, as for who Lizzie is, Lizzie has a real estate license in Wisconsin, but she also has been reportedly working at a grocery store right now. And when Lizzie was asked about this relationship, she acknowledged that people might think that, yeah, you know, hello, it's weird. Why would you be marrying this family annihilator? But when she was asked how the two of them met, she said, "How things began is between me, him and God." Which we all know that Chris has claimed to find the Lord in all of this. So who the hell knows what's going on?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Now, Lizzie apparently isn't waiting around for Chris to officially become her husband before embracing his name because this month she applied for a confidential name change. And those records are sealed, so we don't actually know what name she requested, but hello, I think we can all take a pretty good guess. But relatives say that she's been going by Lizzie Watts within her family. And her siblings have also confirmed that she changed her name online to Lizzie Watts, which even if you want to marry him, why are you trying to take that last name when it is synonymous with one of the most brutal murders that the country has seen in recent years? She was even photographed earlier this month wearing rings on her left ring finger, like an engagement ring and a wedding band together on that finger.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  And here's where things get even more uncomfortable and strange. When Lizzie was asked how she feels about what Chris did to Shanann and the girls, she said, "How I feel about it? He knows. He knows how I feel. I don't know all the people involved, but I would want to respect them." Which what the hell does that even mean? She also described the murders as quote, "something harsh for anyone to experience." Harsh is an understatement. He killed his wife, his pregnant wife and his two daughters, then stuffed his daughter in an oil container and buried Shanann's body.

• 51:48Speaker 03

  I think that's more than harsh. That's like, what are you even talking about? Now, this isn't really the first time we've even heard about women being interested in Chris Watts while he's been sitting in prison. There has been some weird fandom around him for years. And we've talked about this phenomenon before. It's happened with people like Bundy, Brian Kohberger, Wade Wilson, these men who are accused or convicted of horrific crimes, yet somehow develop these groups of like fan favorite women who are just fascinated and enamored with them and love them. They defend them. They believe they're misunderstood. They think that they are the one who can somehow change them.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  And I guess that's kind of the obvious question here. Is Lizzie just another one of those women? Maybe. But what's interesting is that Chris reportedly had several women reaching out to him before this relationship ever happened. According to reports, an inside source said that Chris initially started responding to the letters because he was bored. He had nothing else to do. Then, as certain women started standing out and getting his attention, he kept in touch with them. And eventually, according to this source, some of the letters back and forth became racy. Women started sending him photos, selfies, things of them in lingerie, stuff like that. So the person basically summed it up by saying, "There are a lot of women who think that Chris is handsome

• 53:10Speaker 03

  and misunderstood. And because he's in protective custody and isn't exactly popular with the other inmates, the letters have become his main outlet." So in other words, he's sitting in prison, bored as shit, has nothing to do. Women are sending him letters, love letters, photos, and he's apparently getting his ego stroked from it. Which honestly, when you look at the situation from that angle, it does make you wonder how much of this relationship is a genuine connection verse how much of it is just her filling this void for him, boosting his ego, and like companionship for him because he's so bored? Because let's remember, this guy is never getting out of prison. He's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. Yet somehow, eight years after murdering his wife and daughters,

• 53:54Speaker 03

  we're now talking about Chris Watts potentially becoming somebody's husband again. And that is a terrifying thing to think about. So, don't send me the wedding registry.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  I mean, how is that allowed that you can even receive nude or racy photos?

• 54:10Speaker 03

  It's not fully nude. It's just like, yeah, like racy.

• 54:12Speaker 04

  They shouldn't be allowed to have photos or any of that stuff. And you shouldn't be allowed to get married.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, but...

• 54:19Speaker 04

  I mean, and also, like, what's in it for her?

• 54:22Speaker 03

  Maybe she really is a delus-

• 54:23Speaker 04

  It's like the notoriety of like, being married to Chris Watts?

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Or maybe she's delusional and thinks she really does love him.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  But let's just say he was the most amazing person in the world and not in jail, but somewhere else that he would never get out of. Like, why would you marry someone that you could never have a real relationship with?

• 54:40Speaker 03

  If you think it's true love. I don't know.

• 54:43Speaker 04

  Crazy.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  I know. It is crazy. Um, all right, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of Headline Highlights. I will be back with you first thing on Monday with an all-new deep dive into a case. But don't forget, there are three episodes right now. You can go back and binge. Monday, the Chris Hansen episode, which is on this main feed. Tuesday, another family annihilator deep dive on my 10 to life feed. And then yesterday, either via Apple or Patreon, where I go off on a rant, all things Lindsay and Patrick Clancy. So, you've got a lot you can go binge this weekend. All right. Thank you so much. And until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't marry Chris Watts, and...

• 55:24Speaker 04

  Keep your smoke detectors installed.

• 55:28Speaker 03

  Keep your smoke detectors installed. And let's see what the fuck happens with Brian Kohberger. Yeah. All right. Bye.

• 55:47Speaker 05

  Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. For decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at angie.com.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Walmart shoppers, meet the debit card designed with you in mind. The Walmart Money Card offers up to $75 cash back on purchases at Walmart each year. Early direct deposit, overdraft protection, and so much more. When Walmart is your everyday store, you need a card to match. That's the Walmart Money Card. Open your account today. The Walmart Money Card is issued by Green Dot Bank, member FDIC. Fees, terms, and conditions apply. Visit walmartmoneycard.com to learn more.