Asha de Vos’ journey from deck hand to marine science leader

In a 2025 story, Asha de Vos tells how she became the first Sri Lankan to earn a PhD studying marine mammals, then built a biology program.

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• 0:17Speaker 01

  Hey, it's Flora and you're listening to Science Friday. Today, we are bringing you one of our favorite conversations from last year. We're headed back to the waters of Sri Lanka, a tropical island off of the coast of India. There, we'll find a population of blue whales that behaves unlike any other in the world, because those whales stay put while every other population we know of migrates. And that discovery was made by a student who'd just finished her undergrad degree. The finding made a huge splash, and so did that student, who later became the first Sri Lankan to earn a PhD on marine mammal research, effectively charting a whole new path in science in her country.

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  Dr. Asha Devos is here to tell us about how she did it and what it takes to raise the next generation of ocean champions. Asha is the founder and executive director of the nonprofit Ocean Swell. Asha, welcome to Science Friday.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm so pleased to be here.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Asha, I want to go back to this big moment in your scientific life. It's 2003, you're fresh out of undergrad, you're working on a research vessel off the coast of Sri Lanka, and something catches your eye. Pick it up from here.

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Okay, so whenever I get to tell the story, I get so excited because it takes me back to that moment. So we were tracking some sperm whales, actually, off the coast of Sri Lanka. I was out on deck looking for them, but actually, in the distance, what I did see was a really tall, powerful blow on the exhalation of a whale. But it was so tall and powerful, I immediately knew that it was not a sperm whale. It was like a gigantic animal, you know? And so I got super excited, and I told my captain, I was like, 11 o'clock, 2 kilometers, let's go. I was telling him to change the direction of our entire research expedition, by the way. And also, you know what? On this boat, just to say, on this boat, I was working as a deckhand. So I was only cleaning toilets and polishing brass. That was how my career started, right?

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  So can you imagine? Like, the person who's cleaning toilets and polishing brass is now asking this expedition to go completely off track because she may have seen what looks like a blue whale, right? Like, I don't know, I was clearly living on the edge at that point. And then luckily for me, the captain was like, sure, after I said, I think it might be a blue whale, and we went in that direction. And so, you know, we were getting closer and closer to this animal. I am panicking because I'm so afraid I'm going to lose sight of it because now everybody's like, you know, looking for this so-called blue whale. And we're getting closer and closer, and then I immediately started to think I'm losing my mind because it wasn't one blue whale, but there were six blue whales, right? And it wasn't just that there were six blue whales,

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  but they were in and air the size of a soccer pitch.

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  Was it surprising to see blue whales? Like, I know you were looking for sperm whales, but did you not expect to see blue whales in this area?

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  There were blue whales in our waters. They had been documented in 1983, but nobody had done any research on whales in Sri Lanka consistently since then because the country had gone through a war and, you know, access was limited, and there was lots of things, right? And I think there's two exciting and really surprising things. One is that, you know, these are the largest animals that have ever roamed our planet. They can roam 70% of our planet, right? Because that's how much ocean we have. But they were choosing to aggregate in this small patch of ocean. And the second exciting thing is that they were aggregating in a small patch of ocean in like warm tropical waters, right? And we normally expect to see aggregations like this where they're feeding.

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  And large whales, what I'd been told by my textbooks and my professors was that large whales go to cold places to feed and come to warm places like Sri Lanka, which is in the tropics, just to breed and have babies. And so I was excited because I thought I was going to see like blue whales mating and having babies, right? Like, I was like at the edge of my seat. I was hanging off the front of the boat. I was like, let's go, let's go, you know? Like, I'm like, there's six of them, there must be something happening. And we get there, and it's not at all what I expect to see, right? And that's when I saw what you're talking about, this magical, bright red patch of whale poop.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  I mean, it was one, it's till to date, one of the most incredible things you've ever seen. If your audience, anyone out there, if you've never seen blue whale poop, please Google it because it is bright, brick red color. And against the deep blue of the ocean, it is, it is eye-catching. And it is

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  Okay.

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  amazing.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  You're gonna have to translate for us about why this was magical.

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  Yes, so if an animal poops, that means it's feeding somewhere close, right? And that was, for me, that was evidence. I was like, wait a second, what's happening? Because these whales are not supposed to be feeding in these waters. They're supposed to do these giant journeys to go to places where there's lots of food, like cold Antarctic waters, for example. But they seem to be feeding here. And to me, at that moment, I was like, what is going on? This is just going against every rule in the textbook and everything that my professor said. And I was like, gobsmacked, gobsmacked.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Did it, did this launch your career? How did this change your trajectory?

• 5:41Speaker 02

  So I always tell people, not everyone has the privilege of saying that, you know, an aggregation of blue whales and a floating pile of whale poop was that, you know, where that career kickstarted, but it's a pretty good story, so I'm going to go with that. And it was my eureka moment. So yeah, at that moment, I was like, I want to understand what is going on. I want to understand how this is possible. What are they feeding on? Why are they here? Why are they not migrating? So I actually, that night, I remember going into the bookcase and digging out any documents about blue whales and like kind of reading up and trying to see what was known about blue whales in this part of the world, which was basically nothing. And, you know, trying to understand a bit more of the biology of blue whales

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  because, you know, I knew there was something exciting. And then I actually reached out to scientists across the world who worked on these species because I was like, okay, I think I've got something exciting. I'd like to do some research and to kind of build a project around it. But of course, at this point, I'm 23 years old, right? So like, I don't have any experience. I don't, and in Sri Lanka, because nobody had done this kind of work, I had no one to turn to locally. So that's why I had to write to people across the world and, you know, as I would say, the global north. And people were so excited, and I got like a flurry of emails. But like, their immediate response was, this is so interesting and exciting, and we'd like to learn more and do more work.

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  Can you get us the research permit so we can bring our teams and do research on the ground? And

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Wow, they wanted you to become essentially the fixer.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Exactly.

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  Not the scientist.

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  Exactly. And I remember, you know, like, thinking, there's something wrong with this. You know, like, I am Sri Lankan. I was on an expedition in Sri Lankan waters, and I made a discovery about a potentially Sri Lankan group of whales. If someone was trying to come and take over the research, and I was like, no, thank you. And, you know, to date, I thank my 23-year-old self for having the courage to say that because, you know, it was the start of my career, and I could have been in a position where I was like, okay, what if I can't do this? And maybe, you know, maybe I can work on it for someone else. And instead, I decided that I was going to be the person to do it. So, so bold move. I'm glad it all worked out, is what I should say, you know?

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Wow, so you bootstrapped this project yourself.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

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  By yourself in your 20s.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, not bad. I mean, I still am

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  Yeah, congrats.

• 8:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I say that often to myself. I think it's important for us to look back and reflect and see these moments, you know, and really appreciate them, but yeah.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  We've got to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We have got lots more when we come back.

• 8:34Speaker 03

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• 9:08Speaker 01

  Why was it important to you that, you know, you as a Sri Lankan were leading this research? Explain for other people why that felt important.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  The vessel I was working on was an American-owned vessel, and there were no other locals. Okay? And they were all foreigners from the global north. And, you know, sitting in that instance, I realized that how little opportunity people like myself had. The last time a research vessel had come to Sri Lanka was in 1983. This was 2003, right? So that's, like, our opportunities are so rare. And I realized that even the previous vessel was all foreigners and working in my country. And, you know, later down the line, I realized that that was my first encounter with what I call parachute science. So parachute science is basically where people, in this instance, come from the global north

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  to countries like mine in the global south, which are, you know, exotic in many ways, with, you know, conservation challenges, and do work and leave without any investment in people on the ground or local infrastructure. And what happens in that situation is that the project is designed around the priorities and the interests of the outsider, but not the priorities on the ground. And because the outsider is coming with the resources, like funding, there's an unequal power imbalance between those from outside and then on the ground. And what happens is then the person who, researcher from outside who comes and does the work, their career tends to skyrocket because, you know, they made these discoveries in these exotic places.

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  But structurally, it just doesn't work. It's unsustainable because people on the ground don't have that expertise. And I think there's so much local talent if we create the opportunities, because talent is equally distributed, while the opportunity is not. And I think there are a lot of capable people who can lead and do this research. And I guess that's what I hope to be a lived example of exactly that being possible.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  I mean, how do you start a research program in a place where no one's doing what you're doing?

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  The truth is that, you know, I said I made the discovery in 2003, and I started the project in 2008. And I'd been kind of spinning my legs on how to start and where to start and how to find money and whatever. I just decided I was going to borrow my skills with the whale watch company that had literally just started in Sri Lanka that year. And I was like, I'll go on their boats, I'll talk to tourists, and spend a bit more time observing these whales. And so it was like little steps like that. Then I started writing a proposal. Then I started reading about work done in other places. So it really was like really chipping away at little baby, little steps, you know? But just always having that vision in the distance. I think that's what it was, just holding on to what I really wanted

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  and just taking these little baby steps that slowly but surely were taking me close to getting there.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  You make it sound easy, but I'm sure there were challenges.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, yeah. Oh, definitely. I mean, there's always challenges. I mean, there's challenges even today, you know? Like, you're wrestling with all kinds of things. You know, I mean, I talked about the parachute science, right? And being at the receiving end of people constantly telling me that I wasn't capable because of where I came from and things like that. But on the flip side, I live in a country which is very male-driven. And, I mean, imagine like a young female in a patriarchal society trying to establish a field that's very outdoorsy and, you know, like boats and things like that. And people were just like, it's a man's job. Why are you doing it? You know? And I was like, you don't need to have a gender to care for something.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  I basically care for the ocean, and that's what my job is, you know? Or, you know, people constantly telling me I'm not good enough because of what I'm wearing versus what I'm achieving, or not being good enough.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Wow. Like, give me an example of that, because I think the details are important.

• 13:13Speaker 02

  I, so, okay. I'll give you this example because it's something that really sticks with me.

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  You know, when I work on the boats, I wear skinnies and shorts, right? Like, and no shoes. That's how I work. And someone had taken one of the pictures of me, someone local, and put it on local Facebook, like local language Facebook, and basically been like, what kind of a woman dresses like this? And, you know, I didn't see it. I've also grown very thick skin because I have dealt with enough of people trying to tear me down. And I'm not really interested in expending energy in that direction. But the reason I saw this is because a young female, a young girl, a scientist, who, you know, is, for want of a better word, a fan of mine, I would say, or who's been inspired by my work.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  She sent it to me and said, you know, Dr. Asha, I need you to see this, but don't be upset. Just read the comments, you know? And I was like, okay, strange comment, but okay. And I opened it.

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  No, because you never read the comments.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  No, never. God, I loved that very early in my career. But then I read the comment, and you know what? All these young Sri Lankan girls who had been inspired by my journey basically were standing up for me and being like, do you know what she's done for this country? Do you know what she's done for the field? Do you know what? Like, and like just laying it thick, you know? And I felt so proud. I felt so proud that there were people who, you know, were inspired enough to stand up and to learn to stand up for another woman, you know? And I thought that was a really quite, like, it was a really powerful moment for me.

• 14:56Speaker 02

  But these are not uncommon things. And I have dealt with a lot of similar things, unfortunately, in Sri Lanka. And I think, you know, we need to, and also, you know, the fact that I'm not married has been, you know, I'll have people being like, oh, my gosh, congratulations on that big award, but when are you getting married? You know? And I, oh, my gosh, there is not even a full stop in between those two sentences, you know? Like, but...

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  Not even a comma.

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  Not even a comma, not even a breath, let's say. But I think, you know, I, someone told me long ago, hate and jealousy means you're doing something right. Okay, so I kind of hold that close.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  I also decided very early on that I'm going to let my work speak for me, and I'm not going to, work speak for itself. I'm not going to ever try to fight the critics because it's a waste of energy, you know? And, and I've dealt with, you know, so many challenges along the way. It's been a roller coaster ride in its own way. But I also often tell people that if it wasn't, then I wouldn't have an interesting story to tell. And people like yourself right now wouldn't be interviewing me because, you know, it would be a boring story. So I'm grateful for the challenges.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  You know, your story about those girls really, it gives me goosebumps. I can't even imagine what it's like for you. It must be so moving. You became a marine biologist in Sri Lanka when the field did not exist. What is it like now?

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so exciting because today, like, there are lots of local universities that have marine-related degrees. There are so many young people who want to go into the field, who want to work with us or work on our projects. Or there are other organizations that have, you know, also been established, you know, addressing marine issues. So it's a completely different environment. And it's nuts because it's only been, what? Like, 20 years? And just to see that trajectory and that interest, and suddenly Sri Lankans are looking beyond the shoreline and, you know, starting to recognize the importance of protecting this ocean space. I mean, one thing I should point out

• 17:07Speaker 02

  is that traditionally, countries like us, even though they're islands, most people don't swim. And that's because the ocean was traditionally not a place of recreation. It is where fishermen went to work. And the stories that were told were of people drowning or, you know, there was loss. And so it was a place of fear. And, you know, being, you know, using this ocean as a recreational space is really quite a new concept. And people thought choosing to work as a marine biologist was frivolous, you know? And that was one of the reasons why they were just like, oh, that's so cute. Like, oh, it's such a cute little hobby you'll have, you know? Because they pictured it being just a frivolous plaything.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  And I think the fact that today it's such a recognized field, like Sri Lanka is, you know, really looking beyond that shoreline into what we can do next and, you know, signing global treaties and whatever. It is amazing to see that change. And I feel very proud because I know that in part, my own journey has inspired this shift as well. And so, yeah, it's amazing.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  It's amazing. I mean, you get to live through these students, as you say, but because you pioneered this path. It's beautiful. Congratulations.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Dr. Asha Devas is a marine biologist and the founder and executive director of the nonprofit Ocean's Well. Thanks for joining us today.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful, and I really, really enjoy myself.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  This episode was produced by Rasha Aridi. We'll catch you next time. I'm Flora Lichtman.