Robert Greene: How To Find Love & Master The Art of Seduction EP 1174

Today’s guest is Robert Greene! Robert Greene is the author of the New York Times bestsellers The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The 33 Strategies of War, The 50th Law, and Mastery. And he’s written a new book called The Daily Laws: 366 Meditations on Power, Seduction, Mastery, Strategy, and Human Nature. Robert is one of my favorite guests to have on, he was actually the very first guest on the podcast so many years ago as well coming on a few times since. We’ll link all the previous interviews if you want to check those out after! In this episode we discuss the biggest mistakes people make when trying to find love, how to maintain a thriving long term relationship, how to master the art of seduction, the 3 things to focus on after a breakup, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1174Check out Robert's new book: The Daily LawsCheck out Robert's website: www.powerseductionandwar.comRobert's previous episodes: www.lewishowes.com/1, www.lewishowes.com/713, www.lewishowes.com1024Daymond John on How to Close any Deal and Achieve Any Outcome: https://link.chtbl.com/928-podSara Blakely on Writing Your Billion Dollar Story: https://link.chtbl.com/893-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1174 with New York Times bestselling author, Robert Greene. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:30Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone. Today's guest is the incredible Robert Greene. And Robert is the author of the New York Times bestsellers, The 48 Laws of Power, The Art of Seduction, The 33 Strategies of War, The 50th Law and Mastery. And he's written a new book called The Daily Laws, 366 Meditations on Power, Seduction, Mastery, Strategy, and Human Nature. And Robert is one of my favorite guests to have on. He was actually the very first guest on the School of Greatness so many years ago, as well as coming on a few times since then. And we'll link the previous interviews I had with Robert in the description below this over on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to your podcast. And in this episode, we discuss the biggest mistakes people make when trying to find love,

• 1:14Lewis Howes?

  how to maintain a thriving, long-term relationship, how to master the art of seduction, whether you're single or in a committed relationship, the three things to focus on after you go through a breakup, and so much more. I don't think I've ever heard Robert talk about these subjects so deeply. So I hope you enjoy them. And please make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired by this message as well. And a quick reminder, if this is your first time here, then welcome. Please subscribe over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Leave us a rating and review of the part in this episode you enjoyed the most, as I'd love to hear your thoughts on what inspired you and moved you the most from Robert.

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  And today, we want to share the fan of the week, who is Priti, and they left a review about episode 1167 with Derek Huff. And they said, "This was one of my favorite conversations. There are a lot of people out there that believe they will only find love because of their success and achievements, because we think that's what people fall in love with, but it's not true. You alone are enough. This is truly a message many need to hear." So big thank you to Priti for sharing that review over on Apple Podcasts and being the fan of the week. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only, Robert Greene.

• 2:29Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. We are honored today to have my first ever guest on the School of Greatness back on the show. Robert Greene is in the house, my friend. I appreciate you every time you're on. I think this is the fourth or fifth time. Every time you're on, the audience just says, "We want more." We love the message you have, the wisdom you share, and the way you share your knowledge. So we appreciate you coming back on.

• 2:54Robert Greene?

  It's always nice to hear music to my ears.

• 2:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:57Robert Greene?

  "We want more, not less."

• 2:58Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. You have so many masters of art that you've put it out into the world. So many great books that are incredible art for so many people, that have helped so many people in different areas of their life, around seduction, power, influence, mastery, and just understanding human psychology. You've got a new book called "The Daily Laws: 366 Meditations on Power, Seduction, Mastery, Strategy, and Human Nature." Before you even get to this, go get the book. It's going to change the game for you. I've already been diving into it. It's extremely powerful. Every day, a new message. Go get this right now. And I want to break this up into a couple of parts.

• 3:39Lewis Howes?

  First, talking about love, relationships, seduction, and money included in that, because I haven't heard you talk about love and relationships that much. Obviously, your book on seduction that you have is very powerful. But I want to ask about the biggest mistake that you've seen in your research, and maybe also your personal experience, that people are making when it comes to finding love and using seduction within that discovery of finding love.

• 4:11Robert Greene?

  Well, the greatest mistake people make is they judge simply on appearances. And of course, you know, we all have sexual desire. We have physical desires. And often, we're attracted to people, and there's a sexual component. But the character of that person doesn't mesh with us, right?

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:31Robert Greene?

  And so, the, the physical stuff doesn't last that long. It can't go on forever, although we can go on fairly well if, if you connect on that level. But it kind of dies down at some point, and then you're confronted with their psychology, their personality, their character. You have to be able, you have to think, can I talk to this person in five years and carry on an interesting conversation? Can I sit across from the table? If that is, if you want a long-term relationship and, you know, find a stimulating conversation with them, you know, because that's, that's really what it ends up boiling down to. And so, you, you really want to be able to also judge their character. And if you're able to look inside the other person a little bit, and to see a kind of

• 5:15Robert Greene?

  deeper connection between you, I believe that the sexual part, which is extremely important in any relationship, will actually be intensified and heightened, right? As opposed to the immediate kind of animal attraction that we have to people. So if you deepen your connection to that person and love is involved, where you actually feel a vulnerability to them and this kind of back and forth electrical charge, I think the physical component, you know, the, the value of it increases.

• 5:45Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 5:45Robert Greene?

  So, that's the number one mistake people make, you know?

• 5:50Lewis Howes?

  Is it, is it, do people have sex too early?

• 5:54Robert Greene?

  Well, I don't know what's going on necessarily with young people right now. I know the hookup culture is still pretty strong and, you know, guys are watching a lot of porn. And so, you know, that's probably a tendency. And in the traditional, and things have changed, it was the woman who had more to lose by becoming pregnant who tried to keep the sex at bay for at least several weeks or months or, or longer. And that's kind of been lost. But yeah, I think, um, the fact that the falling in love process generally takes time, right? I mean, we do have love at first sight, and it is a real phenomenon, and I, and I've had it myself.

• 6:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 6:36Robert Greene?

  Yeah. But, um... The idea, so there's a famous French writer named Stendhal, who wrote a great book called "On Love", one of the greatest books written about love. It was in the 19th, early 19th century. And he compared to falling in love to what he called crystallization. And it's based on this thing where you would throw a piece of wood into this mine in Germany somewhere, at Salzburg. And then you would pull it out, like a week later, and it would be filled with all of these brilliant crystals. And he compared that to the process of falling in love. The person is just who they are. They're like a trunk of a tree. But your mind kind of puts all these qualities on them,

• 7:19Robert Greene?

  crystallizes them into some kind of ideal figure, right? And so that mental process takes time, right? It requires also some distance and some fantasizing. You know, sort of basic elements of human psychology.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by distance? Like, don't spend all your time with the person in the first one.

• 7:40Robert Greene?

  Yeah, and if you're having sex right away, it's too close, it's too intimate, it's too early to be able to go through that process, right? And often, you know, there's usually a letdown after that initial sexual encounter, if you have it too early, right? Whereas opposed to letting time go by and letting the other person begin to think about you and fantasize about you. And in their mind, sort of imagine some interesting qualities about you and fascinate them, which is what he calls this crystallization process. I mean, literally think of it that way, that you're having a, you're, in their mind,

• 8:21Robert Greene?

  they're kind of forming this sort of ideal crystal image of you, right? And it takes time, and it takes some absence. It takes the ability to say, you know, you're not in their face all the time. You disappear for a couple of days, a couple of weeks or whatever, not weeks, but a few days. You let them think about you, and you let that kind of spell. Because seduction and love is kind of a spell that you're casting, right? And there's an art to it. And so the mistake people have is they're in too much of a hurry, right?

• 8:53Lewis Howes?

  Too much of a hurry to want to have sex, to fall in love, to...

• 8:56Robert Greene?

  Yeah, or to have like a really, you know, intimate relationship, or to get married, or whatever it is. In general, in our culture, people are too much in a hurry. They're too much in a hurry to make money, too much in a hurry to get attention. That also involves, you know, in romantic relationships.

• 9:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 9:13Robert Greene?

  Right?

• 9:14Lewis Howes?

  So what's the difference between seduction and love?

• 9:18Robert Greene?

  Well, I maintain that the process of seducing is making the other person fall in love, right?

• 9:26Lewis Howes?

  The process of seducing is getting the other person to fall in love.

• 9:32Lewis Howes?

  Could you, could someone?

• 9:33Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 9:34Lewis Howes?

  Could someone fall in love without being seduced? Without seducing them?

• 9:38Robert Greene?

  No.

• 9:40Lewis Howes?

  Even in love at first sight, there could be like a moment of seduction that turns into that? Or how does that work?

• 9:45Robert Greene?

  Well, even in love at first sight, which I say I've kind of maybe experienced, it doesn't necessarily lead to something, right? You still have to go through a process where the other person's character, that you start idealizing and romanticizing and thinking about them. You know, even that immediate attraction, there is still the seduction process that has to go on.

• 10:09Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 10:09Robert Greene?

  Right? And so, you know, I try in the art of seduction, I make the point that political seduction, marketing seduction, social seductions, because in your office, you're continually seducing, it's the same process. And it's getting, you're getting the other person to think about you and getting them to fall in love with your product, with your idea, with your political platform, or whatever it is. And that process of internalizing that other person, of having their presence, their spirit or whatever, inside you, inhabit you, and you're thinking about them a lot, is a process of falling in love, right?

• 10:51Robert Greene?

  So it doesn't mean that there aren't seductions where you're seducing the other person, and then it's over after a month, right? It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to lead to a relationship. But I don't, so I, I separate seduction from just having sex. Yes. So if you go to a bar and you, you pick up a woman in the bar and that night, you go back to your place and you have sex, that's not seduction, right? Because we are psychological creatures, right? We're not, we're not animals. And the process of actually having our emotions engaged by the other person is, takes a lot deeper process, right? It can't happen quickly, it can't happen overnight.

• 11:35Robert Greene?

  So seduction isn't like, you know, pick up artists don't really like the art of seduction so much. Why is that? Because it's not quick enough for them. Hmm. I'm telling you, you have to go through these steps. I don't want to have to go through all these steps. I don't have to wait three weeks to sleep with her or a month. I don't have to surprise her, give her gifts, or I'm talking about from the male point of view. Sure. Do all of these things that Robert talks about. You know, I want a quick, you know, some of them aren't like that, but some of them are. And so there are plenty of books written out there about how to pick of women or guys in a bar. But the seduction isn't about that. It's something else, it's something more elemental. And I talk in The Art of Seduction about how it goes back to our childhood,

• 12:18Robert Greene?

  how we are incredibly vulnerable to the emotions of other people. It begins with our parents, right? And the sense of, you know, we internalize their presence, we're thinking about them. We have this kind of very deep emotional attachment to them. We're seduced by our parents in some ways. It kind of sets a tone from early childhood, this need to feel vulnerable to other people, right? Hmm. This, that's the thing as well is, you know, it's, a lot of people mistake seduction, and that's the reason I wrote the book, they have really bad ideas about it. What do they think it is? Well, they, they have an idea that it's this kind of cold process. Typically, it'll be a male seducer, but it can be a woman.

• 13:03Robert Greene?

  And they're really conniving and they're coming up with all kinds of tricks. Schemes. Schemes to get the woman or man to like fall for them. And either they're after money or sex or something else, right? And actually, seduction is a matter of vulnerability. It's making yourself vulnerable to the other person. Really? Yeah. And, you know, we live in, in times where people have a hard time being vulnerable. You know, if you're insecure, if you're filled with a lot of anxiety, you tend to close up inside of yourself. And to let another person in and to let them have some control over your emotions can be kind of a scary process.

• 13:46Robert Greene?

  But if you can't feel that vulnerability, if you can't open yourself up to the power of that other person, there won't be a seduction, it'll be this kind of cold, mechanical process, right?

• 13:58Lewis Howes?

  So how do we learn to open ourselves up and be vulnerable to allow for seduction to happen? If we're really interested in someone, we're like, ah, we're really, we want to start dating this person, we're really excited about the potential, but we're also don't want to ruin it and mess up?

• 14:16Robert Greene?

  Yeah, well, you know, each relationship is different. You know, I talked to a lot of people on this vulnerability issue, particularly women who've come to me for counseling. They've had a bad experience, right? They dealt with maybe a man who was a kind of cold, calculating seducer type, or an abusive relationship, right? And what happens is, they get kind of bitter and hardened by it. And they don't want to open themselves up to another relationship. They're not aware of that's happening, but unconsciously, that's what's going on. And I try to tell them, if you let that happen, that means that that person, that abuser, or whoever it was,

• 15:01Robert Greene?

  they've defeated you, not only physically, but mentally. They have conquered you, they have ruined one of the most important aspects of your life. They've made it impossible for you to feel vulnerable and open because you can't trust another person. And it's very difficult. So my process in there is telling them that, making clear to them that if that happens, then they have this power over you, and you don't want to let them have that power, right? And so we work on ways, first, making it clear how important it is in life to feel vulnerable, not just to other people, but to everything in the world. That's sort of the subject of my next book.

• 15:43Robert Greene?

  But to feel vulnerable when you read a book, to open yourself to other people's ideas, to open yourself in general to people and to their spirit, and to let them in, and to let them have some influence over you, and some power over you, you know?

• 15:57Lewis Howes?

  Why is that important?

• 15:59Robert Greene?

  Because it allows you then to have a deeper understanding and a deeper connection with people. So, you know, we all kind of live in these castles where we're trying to protect ourselves, right? And we're all kind of defensive. And it's for good reason. We live in a world that's very harsh. You know, a lot of information, a lot of things going on at the same time. So we kind of live in these castles. And you're not understanding people unless you can kind of open up to their spirit. I talk about in The Art of Seduction, "Enter the Other Person's Spirit" is one of the key chapters. Where you're able to kind of put yourself inside of the other person and feel what they might be thinking, right?

• 16:42Robert Greene?

  Which is, I think, a problem that a lot of men have in dealing with women that they're interested in. Putting yourself in their position, trying to understand what makes them tick, what their psychology is about. To do that, you have to kind of let go of yourself. You have to be willing to kind of float and let yourself go into them and open yourself up to their spirit. And not assume that you know everything about them or that all of your ideas are correct. So vulnerability is a very important element that we must have in this world in order to be able to have empathy and to be able to understand people.

• 17:22Lewis Howes?

  Is it, you know, you wrote a book about the Laws of Power, the Forty-Eight Laws of Power. Is this, you know, different than the Laws of Power? The, you know, the seduction strategies where you're being more vulnerable as opposed to, you know?

• 17:39Robert Greene?

  Well, believe it or not, I wrote The Art of Seduction as a kind of, not a sequel, but it kind of played off the Forty-Eight Laws. And there were a few chapters in the Forty-Eight Laws that dealt with seduction, such as "Use Absence to Create Honor and Respect", you know, or "Make Others Come to You", or "Create Compelling Spectacles". There were at least eight or 10 of the Forty-Eight Laws that were very sort of seduction-oriented. And the idea is...

• 18:11Robert Greene?

  We all want power in this world. I maintain that's sort of my key thesis that drives all of my books. And it's not power, just in a political sense. It's the idea that you have some control over your fate, control over destiny, right? And control and the ability to influence the people around you. Well, seduction is the ultimate form of that kind of power.

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 18:34Robert Greene?

  That's what I, yeah, I talked about that in the 48 Laws. It's a form of soft power. So people, if you seduce them, they're not even aware that you have gained this kind of power over them. They've opened up to your influence.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of hypnotizing in a sense, right? It's like this, you're not even aware. Just being hypnotized by someone's message or their, their brand or their product or their political message as well, I guess, right?

• 19:01Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Lewis Howes?

  You're just like, I like this. I don't even know why I like this person.

• 19:05Robert Greene?

  Right.

• 19:06Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 19:07Robert Greene?

  Yeah, because if people sense that you're trying to get power over them, if they sense that you're scheming, that you've read Robert's 48 Laws of Power, whatever, they get defensive and they close themselves off to you. And you can't move them, you can't maneuver them in the right way. I know about 16 years ago, when the pickup artist thing was really big and hot.

• 19:30Lewis Howes?

  With the game and, yeah.

• 19:31Robert Greene?

  The game, everything. Neil's a friend of mine, he's a great guy. But, you know, every woman in Los Angeles, where I live, had been approached by a pickup artist.

• 19:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:43Robert Greene?

  They all knew the strategies, the nagging, all that kind of, you know.

• 19:47Lewis Howes?

  Putting them down and this, yeah.

• 19:48Robert Greene?

  Yeah, they knew all of it. And so it didn't work anymore. It lost, it lost all its power because everyone had been exposed to it, right? They could see through the tricks. They could see a pickup artist coming from a mile away, you know? All the little gag, little tricks like cards or reading their palm or all of this stuff. Oh, come on, man, I know you've read that book. So it didn't work anymore. So if people sense... That you're trying to manipulate them, they close off. And that's why in advertising and marketing, they know that they have to make it seem like they're not advertising. That it's just kind of word of mouth. That's just average person on the street who's touting their products, et cetera.

• 20:32Robert Greene?

  Because if you're advertising it so clearly how you're manipulating, it doesn't work. So the trick in seduction is to have such a gentle touch that people don't even understand what's going on. And that's what a kind of a master seducer can do.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  And what I'm hearing you say, that's living from more of a vulnerable state. Is that right? Being open to being vulnerable?

• 20:59Robert Greene?

  Well, you know, there are people who are cold seducers and they seduce women. But I don't, you know, there's kind of a limit to it as well. It's not the kind that I'm interested in. So I've known a lot of really great seducers. There was a person in Paris who was sort of the, to me, the greatest seducer I ever personally met. He was this Brazilian guy in Paris. Very tall, very handsome guy. But he was the most brilliant seducer I've ever seen, right? And I've known others as well.

• 21:29Lewis Howes?

  What did he do?

• 21:30Robert Greene?

  Well, I say it was this kind of openness that he had. And you could call it a vulnerability. It was a kind of a childish, boyish quality. So the women felt comfortable in his presence. He might, you know, dump them in a week and go after someone else. But in that week, he was completely at their feet. He, you know, he was inside their brain. He understood them deeply. And he was like a boy, you know, he didn't seem threatening at all, right? And I know probably the greatest male seducer who ever lived is probably Errol Flynn, the great American, Irish, American actor. I think he's Irish, actually.

• 22:13Robert Greene?

  And Errol Flynn supposedly had slept with... I don't know, it was like 3,000 women. It's crazy. And he died at the age of 51. I remember when I wrote The Art of Seduction, I was kind of doing the math. That's crazy. And it was like Wilt Chamberlain or something like. It had to be like a woman every other day or something. That's crazy. And then I wanted to understand what made him so powerful, right? Because he was one of the icons in The Art of Seduction. And finally, I found a book written by a woman, an actress who'd been seduced by him. And she kind of revealed to it all of his secrets. And the key was, he made women feel so relaxed, right?

• 22:54Robert Greene?

  She said, just being next to him was like drinking two martinis. I felt so calm and so relaxed. He had this kind of animal presence where he was very comfortable with himself. And that was the thing about that Brazilian man. He wasn't defensive at all. He was very, very comfortable with himself. He wasn't arrogant or grandiose. But he just felt comfortable in his own body, in his physicality, and in who he was. And I think the problem that a lot of people have is they bring their insecurities into the seduction realm. And it's very anti-seductive, it kind of breaks the spell.

• 23:35Robert Greene?

  Because when you're insecure and you're trying to pick up on a man or a woman, the other person can sense it, right? You're not saying anything, but they read it in your body language. Because we're animals that read a lot from nonverbal communication. And when another person is insecure like that, it means they're thinking about themselves, right? And it's a very off-putting sense, like they're more worried about if they say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing. And it makes the other person tense and insecure. I don't know if you've ever had this experience, Lewis, but if you've ever been around... A very insecure person, it kind of makes you uncomfortable and awkward.

• 24:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, super uncomfortable.

• 24:16Robert Greene?

  So probably the most important lesson I tell people in the realm of seduction is to be able to project a degree of confidence and calmness and comfort with yourself are probably the most important qualities.

• 24:30Lewis Howes?

  What about when you're in a relationship and you want the relationship to work long term? You wanted to have, whether you're getting married and you wanna, you know, you wanna last. And you don't wanna just hang on to the marriage and be miserable, but you want it to be a happy, thriving existence, healthy, conscious, loving, to the best of your ability. Should we continue to seduce our partners in committed long-term relationships? Or is that not something you do once you're in a relationship?

• 25:00Robert Greene?

  Well, I have a chapter in The Art of Seduction that deals with, I think it's the last chapter. And basically, I think a lot of people complain, it used to be women complained about it, but I think it transcends that, where we've been in a relationship for a year. And all the things that, I'm going in, hearing the woman talk, because I've heard this before. Everything that he used to do, he doesn't do anymore.

• 25:25Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:25Robert Greene?

  He doesn't take me special places, he doesn't make that extra effort, he doesn't buy me special gifts anymore. All the things that he did when he wanted to have sex, he was like going crazy and doing all these, these things, he was dressing really well. Now he kind of dresses like a slob, he kind of doesn't wanna go out anymore. I hear that more than I hear the opposite, like, he keeps trying to seduce me and I'm getting tired of it. I don't hear that too much.

• 25:51Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:52Robert Greene?

  But I hear that he's taking me for granted, right? So it's not like you're practicing the same things that you did when you were trying to get that other person to fall in love with you, that would be exhausting, right? And I don't think it would really work. But it's that you still do some of the effort, right? You still try to surprise the other person. You still have sides of your character that they don't know about. You do things that they've never seen before, you still take them to places. You still put effort into buying gifts, right? You buy that special gift. You still take effort to take them one night to a special restaurant or to a movie that they, something that they hadn't, you know, like if you understand, if you listen deeply to that other person

• 26:37Robert Greene?

  and they reveal. Their secret desires and what they're not getting from the world. Just take that in and go. If I give her a gift or take her to a place that feels that very thing that she said she's not getting. Man, that'll have such a powerful effect on that person. Even if you've been in a relationship for two or three years. And I've been in a relationship for decades, I'm afraid, I have to admit. And you still have to go through that process.

• 27:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:05Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 27:07Lewis Howes?

  What is the questions you can ask to find out someone's secret desires without saying, what are your secret desires?

• 27:15Robert Greene?

  You just have to listen there. Okay, so the main thing is get them to talk about their childhood.

• 27:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:22Robert Greene?

  Yeah. I mean, obviously, don't go, tell me about your father. Did he, what was he nice to, you know?

• 27:28Lewis Howes?

  What question can you ask in an organic, relaxed way? That would open that up?

• 27:34Robert Greene?

  Well, in the course of a context, you can say, you know, are, I don't know, it's like, are you close to your parents? Do you see them? And then to, just without being, you know, too inquisitive, without making it clear that that's what you're doing. Just get them to talk about their early life.

• 27:54Lewis Howes?

  Why is that important to figuring out people's secret desires as adults? Asking about their childhood?

• 27:59Robert Greene?

  Because it's the key to everything.

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 28:02Robert Greene?

  In, in, in the laws of human nature, I have a chapter about, I call it about gender, about the mix of the masculine and feminine in us. And there's a concept from the great psychologist Jung called the anima in animus. And he basically says that from a man, from his mother, if you're straight, because things change. The man from his mother internalizes an image of women that it'll haunt him for his entire life.

• 28:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 28:34Robert Greene?

  Right? Because the relationship between a mother and son is very intense. It's not the same as between a mother and a daughter, right? Because she's the opposite gender. You're suckling on her breast. She's the only person you know for the first couple of years. It's very powerful, powerful. And unconsciously, her image slips inside of you. You internalize a part of it. And you're going to have this, you're going to carry with this, even if. You don't like your mother and you come to not like her later on. That image is still inside of you and you're still gonna choose women that have some of those qualities that you would like, you wish your mother had, or that she did have. So, those early relationships, the woman with her father

• 29:19Robert Greene?

  will tell you so much about her and about her weaknesses and her vulnerabilities. And what she's missing, yeah.

• 29:26Lewis Howes?

  So what if they, if the person...

• 29:28Robert Greene?

  That's one, you know, anything where the person gets excited, right?

• 29:35Lewis Howes?

  Then just take note of that.

• 29:36Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 29:37Lewis Howes?

  And start...

• 29:37Robert Greene?

  If you touch upon a subject and you see that they get nervous or they laugh a lot, they're very excited. Just put that in your little index there and go and return to it and notice you've hit upon a chord. A subject that either excites them or gives them like fear or whatever. There's something very powerful going on there, right?

• 29:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 29:58Robert Greene?

  So, but, and childhood is a very powerful one like that.

• 30:03Lewis Howes?

  So, what should people be aware of? When they're getting into a relationship, what do you think are a few questions they should ask? And get answers to, to see if it's a potential for a good relationship? Or it's gonna be completely off, or they're just wasting their time trying to get into this? Are there any questions you can think of?

• 30:27Robert Greene?

  Well, no, I can't think of questions. It's more like...

• 30:31Lewis Howes?

  Or should it be asking, "How is your parents' relationship?" and this and that?

• 30:34Robert Greene?

  It's not that direct. It's not that verbal. It's not that intellectual. It's more of a kind of a spirit meshing between two people, right? So, there are plenty of examples of couples that have done extremely well. Where they kind of disagree on political issues, although that can be a problem as well. But there's a little bit of tension on that, but they connect on some deeper level. I refer people to that chapter I was just talking about in The Laws of Human Nature, where there's a level where we connect to people that is not on the surface, that is kind of non-verbal. It has to do with our unconscious, it has to do with things that we've never been able to get

• 31:18Robert Greene?

  from our parents or whatever. And we've kind of have these ideals that have been unmet. And connecting on that level, connecting on the level of spirit, where your emotions, you have, it's more like your emotions mesh together well than your ideas. Like there's, you know?

• 31:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:41Robert Greene?

  And because if that other person is incredibly dramatic and out there, and you know, that's something you can, even though they have the similar ideas to you, it's gonna grate on your nerves, you know?

• 31:59Lewis Howes?

  I saw a post recently, excuse me, about something like, I'm gonna mess this up, but something like, you don't marry the person, you marry the person's like trauma, you marry their, you know, in-laws' trauma, you marry like what they haven't healed yet, you marry their emotional, you know, the relationship to certain things, you're marrying the emotions of the person, really.

• 32:23Robert Greene?

  Yes, exactly.

• 32:24Lewis Howes?

  And being aware, like, just because they look great and just because we have fun together certain times, you're really marrying all the other stuff along with it.

• 32:32Robert Greene?

  Right, and you won't find that out right away.

• 32:34Lewis Howes?

  Because they're good at hiding it, right? They're good at like reserving that until six months, a year, two years later, right?

• 32:40Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 32:40Lewis Howes?

  So it's making sure that your emotions mesh well over your ideals, is that what I'm hearing?

• 32:47Robert Greene?

  Over the intellectual part, over just the superficial fact that you both vote Democratic or Republican, or that you both like this movie director. I mean, certain tastes that mesh are important. But I don't think, there has to be kind of a charge between you. A kind of, something that goes on underneath the surface. That has nothing to do with just words or kind of superficial things, you know. Something deep.

• 33:14Lewis Howes?

  Spiritual.

• 33:15Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 33:16Lewis Howes?

  Because sometimes people will think, oh, we have all these things in common. We have this connection. This is a great match. But then they don't experience the emotional or spiritual level.

• 33:26Robert Greene?

  Right.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  And then that comes out later and you're like, well, we are from the same city and we went to the same school and we voted whatever.

• 33:33Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  And we have similar friends and we like to go to baseball games.

• 33:36Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  But if there's not that spiritual or emotional meshing.

• 33:39Robert Greene?

  Rubble, you just, you, your idea is very, is very apt. You are marrying the other person's emotions, right? And so that's not something that you see right away. And you could love the same movies, you can have all these other things. But if that part isn't connecting on the right way, if they're revealing something that's gonna really drive you crazy after several months or years, doesn't matter about how well your ideas are similar.

• 34:04Lewis Howes?

  What if your ideas are amazing together? This sexual connection is incredible, but the emotional level is not in sync?

• 34:14Lewis Howes?

  Like.

• 34:15Robert Greene?

  Well, you know, it's hard to generalize. You know, have a relationship, it'll probably last just a few weeks or a couple of months. You know, it'll be hard to build a relationship where you don't connect on this kind of deeper level. But it's not to say that it doesn't happen. And it doesn't to say that people can't change, right? So, um, you know, you might discover after five years that this person has qualities that kind of get on your nerves a little bit. You wish you had seen them earlier. But by then you've fallen in love with them.

• 34:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 34:50Robert Greene?

  And you go, you know, I, I can appreciate their weaknesses. I can love their weaknesses. I can get over it. It still kind of irritates them. Me, it's, it irritates me, but there's something deeper. I actually really love this person. And even their flaws are lovable. And that happens, right? So it's hard to generalize about everything. And you can't change. You can like, see that maybe I'm overreacting. Maybe I'm too cold and rational and they're too dramatic. And maybe I can learn from her or him and become more like them. People change and you, that's the great thing about a great relationship. It's the ability for the other person to change you as well.

• 35:30Lewis Howes?

  To influence you, yeah. How long have you been in your relationship now?

• 35:35Robert Greene?

  It's over twenty years.

• 35:36Lewis Howes?

  Over twenty years. What do you wish you knew about, you know, being in a long-term relationship like this twenty years ago? Is there anything you would have done differently on your end? Or anything that you would wish you would have known to, I don't know, it seems like it's been a happy, healthy relationship to last that long. But is there anything you wish you would have knew earlier, Robert? You know, at that point, before getting into the relationship?

• 36:02Robert Greene?

  You mean and not have the relationship or what?

• 36:05Lewis Howes?

  No, and being in the relationship, like things that you could have, I don't know, it's, things you could have eliminated or things that you could have done differently yourself to make it even greater, or wish you would have like solved things before challenges came up for you, if they did come up?

• 36:20Robert Greene?

  Well, it's...

• 36:21Lewis Howes?

  Or have you just been like the king of relationships?

• 36:24Robert Greene?

  No, no, no, no, no, not at all. As I've made very clear, I have got my own problems, my own flaws, you know?

• 36:33Robert Greene?

  No, I mean, being more forgiving would have probably helped, you know?

• 36:41Robert Greene?

  I'm, I can be kind of rigid and kind of stubborn, thinking I know the right way all the time. And I felt like, you know, she had certain flaws that were really too strong. And if I could just like, you know, go with them and say that I have flaws as well and be a little more humble and be more forgiving of her, I think that would have helped.

• 37:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Robert Greene?

  You know, and that's not, that's not easy all the time.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  How important is it, do you think, being in a healing process before entering a new relationship? As opposed to just jumping into a relationship without the process of reflection, self-awareness, looking at what pain has caused you in your past that you haven't forgiven or healed?

• 37:29Robert Greene?

  It's very, very important. Because oftentimes your choices with a partner occur for reasons that you're not aware of.

• 37:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:37Robert Greene?

  And I talked about an example in The Laws of Human Nature. That's sort of a classic case in therapy, where this man had come to a therapist and he had a series of like ten very powerful emotional relationships and each time he broke it off. And he would say, you know, she betrayed me here. I found out that this was happening and I no longer loved her, on and on and on. The therapist started to go into his early childhood. And he discovered that he had a mother, this man, who was very cold. Wasn't very loving to him.

• 38:18Robert Greene?

  And he had a sense, and this is what happens to children, it happens to boys. When the mother is like that, you feel abandoned. You don't feel like it's your fault. I'm sorry, you don't feel like it's their fault, you feel like something's wrong with you. And they have chosen to abandon you. It scars you. It scars that three-year-old in a way that he'll never get over. And so what his pattern was, each time he got in a relationship, before the woman could begin to maybe hurt him and abandon him, he was the one doing the abandoning. It gave him a sense of power and control. It was like he was redoing the mother relationship, where he was the one abandoning and not being abandoned. He was not aware of this at all.

• 39:01Robert Greene?

  He'd gone through thirty-five years of his life in all of these relationships.

• 39:06Robert Greene?

  Probably choosing women that kind of mirrored that early relationship as well. But that he could then abandon them, so he could have this feeling of power. Now, you might not be having something so dramatic going on in your life, but you will have patterns like that. And I know I've had patterns like that. And I've analyzed them and I've become aware of them. And so, if you've been in a very bruising, kind of damaging relationship, which we've all had, if you've been alive for enough years, right? It is absolutely essential that you step back and analyze it. Because kind of negative relationships and traumas like that will reveal a lot of truths about yourself.

• 39:48Robert Greene?

  You will tend to blame the other person for everything, but you need to look at yourself and see the patterns that are making you fall for people like that, right?

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  You getting into those relationships over and over again.

• 40:01Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Lewis Howes?

  So what would it look like when you start the healing process or the awareness process of, okay, I'm the one who's responsible for this pattern. I'm the common denominator of all these relationships. So there's, you know, partially me to be responsible for. What would it feel like to start the healing process? And what would that next relationship look like when you make a commitment? Would it just feel different? Would it feel like, oh, this is very healthy? How would that look, do you think?

• 40:33Robert Greene?

  Well, there's a lot of problems. It's not easy.

• 40:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:35Robert Greene?

  And the, and the, and the main problem, Lewis, is, believe it or not, some of those early dysfunctional relationships with your parents are charged with this kind of sexual energy.

• 40:49Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 40:49Robert Greene?

  Yeah. And so you'll find yourself attracted to the very man or woman who's going to hurt you. Whereas the man or woman who is good for you, there's no kind of sexual charge. Because, and this isn't everybody, this is maybe a third, I don't know what the percentage is. Don't quote that.

• 41:08Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 41:09Robert Greene?

  But you are actually more attracted to the person that has these damaged qualities.

• 41:15Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 41:16Robert Greene?

  Because you get to relive some of those early traumas, right? And so the problem that will happen, and I can see this in my own life as well, that the person who is good for you, that's actually caring, that will mesh with you, that physical charge maybe isn't as strong, right? And that's a problem, right? Because you want to have that element. But you need to be aware of this. You need to be aware of the fact that some of the people that you're most attracted to, you're not attracted to just because of their sexy body or whatever it is. There's also some kind of issues you haven't worked out from your early childhood that are at play in that relationship and that are going to cause you a lot of pain.

• 41:56Lewis Howes?

  Why does that turn us on sexually, do you think? Why is the human brain turned on by drama and, you know, unhealthy relationships? Like, why does that?

• 42:09Robert Greene?

  Well, you know, I would be a multi-billionaire by now if I could answer those questions. I'd be the ultimate doctor of love. But I can say this, that when you're a child, you're two or three years old, you know, we're talking about entering the spirit. Try and enter the spirit of the three-year-old Lewis Howes. You're very vulnerable, you're very weak, right? You're at the mercy of this person who's very powerful. Your mother and also your father, it depends on what, you know. You're at their mercy, right? And you're open to them, you depend on them for so much. So the emotional energy that you are putting onto them is extremely powerful. More powerful than any other relationship you will have in your life, and you're not aware of it.

• 42:52Robert Greene?

  And so it meshes with all these other kind of physical impulses and desires that you have. Because a child who's two or three years old is actually still having like sexual impulses very early on. It's kind of creating a pattern of attraction that you are very rarely aware of. It's hard to say everybody is like that, but it's a pretty common denominator. That, you know, if you have, for instance, a very narcissistic mother, right? Who was more interested in herself than in you, you're going to be attracted to narcissistic women.

• 43:30Lewis Howes?

  If you're a man, yeah, I got you, wow.

• 43:32Robert Greene?

  Yeah. And you're not aware of it, and you know, it creates this, a lot of pain for you, right? So, you've got to go through a process. It's kind of like there's the ancient Greek play of Oedipus, right? I don't know if you were, he married his, he killed his father, and then he ended up marrying his mother.

• 44:02Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 44:02Robert Greene?

  Yeah, you know, so we get the Oedipus complex from, right? And he never realizes it until he's like, in his late 30s, and he's gone through this, his whole career as the king of the Thebes. And then suddenly, he's made aware of it through various things that happen, right? And it's like, oh my God, really? I've done all that? This is what my life is? And he's so overwhelmed that he cuts his eyes out and he blinds himself. As proof of, you know, how blind he was.

• 44:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 44:36Robert Greene?

  And so the Greeks are saying, In that play that we're all kind of blind. Fate kind of pushes us around and we're not even aware of it. And the moment of feeling enlightened about becoming aware of some of these patterns in your childhood is actually a great moment. It's very painful, but it's very powerful, you know?

• 44:59Robert Greene?

  Sorry, I didn't mean to take it to such a dark place.

• 45:02Lewis Howes?

  No, I love this.

• 45:05Lewis Howes?

  Let's say someone has been through a tough breakup. And maybe this is their first breakup. They've gone through that was tough, a tough relationship. Or this is a pattern. This is their third or fifth relationship in 10 years. It's been like, you know, what's wrong with me? What would you say would be the next three things they should focus on after the breakup? On how to find that awareness and open their eyes on how to start, you know, observing men or women in a different way before they get so committed and go all in and start fantasizing about how amazing they are? What would you say are three things they could do before entering another relationship?

• 45:46Robert Greene?

  Well, first of all, to become acquainted with yourself and to see, know who you are and know the source of your own desires. So if it's your very first relationship, it's a little hard to see patterns. But you can begin to see patterns of the kind of person that you're attracted to after the third or fourth time. And to analyze that and to be aware of it. Now, you know, some people will say, well, won't that kind of ruin the whole relationship game that I'm analyzing myself? That seems so unseductive, et cetera. And, you know, if you're in your twenties and you're healthy and you're young, maybe it doesn't matter so much. You know, you're gonna have some painful moments, but you're having a lot of fun.

• 46:30Robert Greene?

  Okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, rain on that parade. But eventually, you're not gonna be so young. You're gonna be in your late twenties, you're gonna be in your early thirties. And the series of bad relationships, they're gonna start wearing on you. They're gonna start creating trauma. And it'll start infecting you with this kind of negative, this kind of defensiveness. Where every time you meet someone, you're worried that they're gonna hurt you. And you can't like, you know, open yourself up to them, right? So you've got to, as early as possible, understand your own patterns. Why am I attracted to this person? Just simply ask that question, right?

• 47:11Robert Greene?

  It's, you know, like, what was it about him or her that attracted me to that person? You know? Is there something I'm not thinking about? Could I have foreseen some of the darker side of this person earlier on? Yes, yes. Obviously. Could I have seen the fact that he could be someone who could be kind of cold and abusive? Yes. You know, he, oftentimes, a man who is like that will love bomb the woman. He'll overwhelm them with emotion, so they get confused and they're not aware of it. That also is a sign when, when a man overwhelms you in the first two days with so much attention. Wow. That he's hiding something dark.

• 47:55Robert Greene?

  But don't look at it as if it's always the other person. See your own temptation, why you give into someone like that? Why you are attracted to people like that, right? Mm-hmm. Go through that process. And then say, alright, what are the qualities that I really, really want? What is important for me that I'm not, that I'm not getting from this person? You know, the sex is great, but there are other things that are more important, like validation. Like the other person cares about my work and about my career. They're not just interested in me as a physical presence, but they actually show interest in my future, right? Yes. What are these things that I need that are very important to me?

• 48:39Robert Greene?

  That I didn't get in that last relationship, right? Who am I, right? That's just the question, who am I? What are my deepest needs? And what are my dark patterns, right? Yes. And then, to go through a process of... If I, we talked about this earlier. If I now become all defensive and closed, and if I'm like always judging the person, you know, oh, he's not right for me, or she's not, you know, because you're afraid of being hurt again.

• 49:08Lewis Howes?

  That last person has power over you still.

• 49:10Robert Greene?

  Yeah, they defeated you, they conquered your spirit.

• 49:12Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 49:13Robert Greene?

  So you can't be afraid to have some more of that pain again. Right? You have to open yourself up a little bit here.

• 49:22Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 49:22Robert Greene?

  And if you do that, and you're hurt again, at least you can say that that person who hurt me earlier on has no more power over me. You know, I'm still able to fall in love. I'm still able to let myself, open myself up to another person.

• 49:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 49:39Robert Greene?

  It's incredibly important to be able to feel vulnerable to another person. It's, it's a deep human need, it goes back to our childhood. It's part of our human nature. And if you close yourself off, it's not only going to affect your romantic relationship, it's going to affect you in work and everything.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so don't jump into another relationship if you're closed off, is what I'm hearing you say. Like be willing to heal that part or process it.

• 50:04Robert Greene?

  And then, and then one last thing, you asked for three, those were two, I'll give you a third. The third is, learn to judge people by their character.

• 50:12Lewis Howes?

  So true.

• 50:13Robert Greene?

  Right? So not the superficial charm and smiles and all the great stuff that they're able to fake, but who they are deep inside, right? You know, do they have some of these strong character traits? Can they take criticism? Man, you have no idea that that is such an important quality in a relationship.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  Taking criticism?

• 50:35Robert Greene?

  Yeah. If that other person cannot take any kind of criticism, how can you be in a relationship with them? And they'll make you, they find ways to, to make you pay for criticizing them, they get passive aggressive, they get called, oh, I'm never gonna do that again. You can't be in a relationship.

• 50:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:53Robert Greene?

  So judge someone like that. Can they take criticism? Can they deal with moments of stress? Can they get outside of themselves and think about me? You know, think about how they are in a conversation. Do they hear what you're saying? Do they come back with things that reveal the fact that they've been listening to you? That they picked up signals from you? Get inside them, get inside their character and be able to judge them on that basis as opposed to their sexy veneer that they have. So those would be the three things.

• 51:25Lewis Howes?

  Those are powerful. What's your thoughts on relationships and money? And should we be focusing on money as a factor in relationships? Because it seems to me like a lot of people end relationships with money problems. Or it's one of the main factors.

• 51:42Robert Greene?

  You mean there's an inequality between the two?

• 51:44Lewis Howes?

  Inequality or just like the value of money? If someone sees spending money in a certain way, another person sees it in a different way? It's just like the topic of money seems to mess with people. How do we develop seduction with money involved in a relationship? And how do we stay in a healthy relationship and not allow money to ruin the relationship?

• 52:08Robert Greene?

  Well, money isn't just money. Money is a sign. Money is something that has psychology, has other things attached to it. So let's just say it's a woman who is finding herself losing her attraction to a man because he's not making any money, right? That could be because it's a sign that he doesn't have enough ambition, he doesn't have enough drive. Or it could be a sign that he's just finding himself and eventually he'll discover it. But you kind of turned off a lot of women, and I think, you know, yeah, it's mostly women, by the fact that this person doesn't have any drive, has no ambition. They're not trying to make something of their life, right?

• 52:53Robert Greene?

  And so it's not about the money that there is, it's the fact that there's something missing in them, right? That kind of masculine energy, such as masculine, women have great drive to make money as well. I don't mean to put it that way. But that kind of drive, that energy that makes them want to get ahead can be very seductive and very powerful.

• 53:11Lewis Howes?

  That's powerful for women to see that in men.

• 53:13Robert Greene?

  Yeah, and to sense that he's just kind of a slacker. Okay, maybe he's got good qualities, maybe he's a wonderful person, and that's fine. And then the money isn't a problem, you don't care. And maybe what, if you do care, it's because it reveals something about their character, right? The other thing is generosity in a relationship is very important, right? It's not just giving money, but it's also giving your energy, giving your time to the other person. So a lot of, a classic turn off that men will do is that they're not so generous with money, time, attention, etc.

• 53:56Robert Greene?

  And it's a sign of something closed inside of them. So, you know, they don't want to pay for a meal, they don't want to pay for something, they don't want to spend money on a, on a, on a nice gift or whatever. It's not the money, it's the sign that someone isn't generous in their spirit, in their heart. They're not willing to take risks, right? That'd be another thing that the lack of money will say. You know, to start a business and fail would not be such a bad, I don't think would be such a turn off as opposed to never starting a business. As always talking about, oh, I could have been great, I could have done this, but never trying. Because it reveals a lack of, of, of security about yourself, confidence.

• 54:40Robert Greene?

  Because confidence is a key quality. So I think money is often a sign of something else, another problem. It's revealing something about their character. You know, I mean, it could be he's, he or she isn't pulling in their weight and that, that's an issue. Yeah, and I, and I kind of resent that.

• 54:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 55:00Robert Greene?

  But that's not about the money, that's about the other person not caring enough to pull their weight or to not thinking about the other person's needs.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  It's what's underneath the money.

• 55:10Robert Greene?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 55:11Lewis Howes?

  You mentioned confidence for a second. How does, um, how much does someone lacking confidence affect their ability to seduce? And maintain a level of seduction in a long-term relationship?

• 55:27Robert Greene?

  Well, confidence is extremely important. I mean, it can border, it can go off into grandiosity and arrogance and hubris. And that can be a turn off. But in general, most people, men and women, make the mistake by not having enough confidence.

• 55:43Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:43Robert Greene?

  By being insecure.

• 55:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. It's better to rein someone's confidence down a little bit than to have none at all. Right? It's like, it's better to have more of it.

• 55:54Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 55:54Lewis Howes?

  And be like, okay, your ego's getting out of control. Let's take it down a little bit.

• 55:58Robert Greene?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:58Lewis Howes?

  Then like, I have no confidence at all.

• 56:01Robert Greene?

  Well, the fact that you feel confident about yourself is very seductive in itself. It has an attractive power. You know, I talk in The Art of Seduction of Charisma. I have a whole chapter on the charismatic and the origin of charisma. And what I define charisma is, there's a person who has a kind of inner light inside of them. They're so confident that they kind of glow with that confidence. That their words are kind of revealing it, their eyes are glowing, their gestures are glowing. And they're very charismatic. It could be a Malcolm X, it could be a Marilyn Monroe, it could be a John F. Kennedy, it could be a Mick Jagger, whomever. Right?

• 56:43Robert Greene?

  We sense this incredible confidence and this power. And it's like an inner lantern that just makes everything glow. And we are so attracted to that. That's what charisma is. Why are we attracted to it? Because we envy people who have that kind of confidence. We wish we could have that. And we find it very compelling. We want to know them. We think that some of it perhaps will rub off on us. I know, in working with 50 Cent, I wrote a book with him. This guy is very charismatic. He's extremely seductive. He's one of those men that I mentioned earlier, who's like in that pantheon of great seducers. And I've seen him up front doing his seduction.

• 57:25Robert Greene?

  So I know, I speak from experience. And he has this incredible charisma, this insane confidence. It's not in what he says, it's not in his eloquence, it's just in how he carries himself. Right? And it can be a little bit cocky sometimes if we've all seen from him. But man, it is so seductive and women go crazy over things like that. And men will go crazy over that in women as well. So confidence is extremely important in the realm of seduction. You can almost not go wrong with it. Yes, you can border on being insane and grandiose. But the feeling of that person is comfortable and confident

• 58:06Robert Greene?

  and has that kind of inner, you know, force, energy that's coming up from somewhere they don't know is very powerful and very compelling. So, and the lack of confidence is extremely anti-seductive.

• 58:21Lewis Howes?

  It is very. It'll probably hurt the relationship. If your partner is always lacking confidence in themselves, it doesn't make you feel attracted to them, right?

• 58:30Robert Greene?

  Right.

• 58:31Lewis Howes?

  So what would you say if someone's been through a breakup after breakup? Or even just one bad breakup and they feel heartbroken or closed off? How can they reclaim that confidence? What would you say to that person if they've lost confidence on how to reclaim it themselves? And also, if your partner has lost confidence and you're in a long-term relationship, how can you help someone gain confidence in a relationship? So individually, how do you reclaim it? And then your partner is lacking it?

• 59:01Robert Greene?

  Well, there's several ways to answer that. I mean, you know, seduction is almost like a skill. It's almost like being able to hit a baseball and bat 300.

• 59:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 59:13Robert Greene?

  So the best thing you can do after a bad relationship is go back in the game and try and meet other women and go back in. And if you fail, to have a kind of a light attitude and not care. But closing yourself off will make it harder, each time harder to get outside of yourself, right? I can remember one time. I was in New York, I was young, I was maybe twenty-four. I was on the subway. And I'd just received some great news about my career, about this thing that I had written. Right? Twenty-four, yeah. Yeah, and I was on the subway going in somewhere in Manhattan. And all of a sudden, like, these, these women were looking at me.

• 59:57Robert Greene?

  And, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying that, that never usually happens. Right, right. So I'm not bragging. Yes. What's going on here? Wow. This, you know, this one really attractive woman, what's going on here? And then I, I can never, I can't forget that moment, it stuck out of my mind so strongly. Like, there's this energy that I had that they were picking up, and they were sensing it, and they were attracted to it. I didn't say anything, I just heard, it wasn't on, we didn't have a phone then, I just had heard it, and I was really happy and in a great mood. But I'm certain that that was, that energy was kind of projecting itself onto other people. Yes. So seduction is a skill. And getting out there and trying your hand at, at meeting other women and going through the process,

• 1:00:42Robert Greene?

  you'll learn about yourself, you'll, you won't take things, don't try and take things so personally. Get back in the game by being defensive and going into your shell and saying, oh, I don't want to get hurt again. You're gonna make it harder each time to get out of that shell. Yes. You know, so, um, the, you know, that other gender is kind of mysterious to us. We don't really know them. Right, right. They have a different world, a different personality, right? But the more you interact with the, with women or men, the more you can kind of get a sense of what drives them and motivates you. You can't ever totally understand them.

• 1:01:23Robert Greene?

  A man can never, ever, ever understand a woman, there's always a big mystery there eventually, thank God there is, but... To the degree that you interact with women or men in any situation, you're kind of learning about them, you're getting more comfortable with them, right?

• 1:01:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:01:39Robert Greene?

  So, a lot of great male seducers had sisters. A lot of great female seductresses had brothers.

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:47Robert Greene?

  They grew very comfortable with that male or female presence.

• 1:01:51Lewis Howes?

  And they might have been around the sister's friends, or the woman might have been around their brother's guy friends, and been around that energy more.

• 1:02:00Robert Greene?

  Right. So, if you had just brothers, you know, women seem kind of scary or weird, or what do they want? And the opposite is true. So, interacting, getting outside yourself, interacting with women, you'll get to feel more confident, you'll learn more, and you'll be more comfortable in their presence. So, don't go into a shell, that's the main thing.

• 1:02:23Lewis Howes?

  That's the key. And what about, did you have something else?

• 1:02:26Robert Greene?

  No, you had a second part.

• 1:02:27Lewis Howes?

  What about if your partner, you're in a relationship for 10 years, and whatever reason your partner, and a woman, is lacking confidence? They're insecure, they're doubting themselves over and over. What could the other partner do to help them reclaim their confidence? Or is that not something you can do?

• 1:02:47Robert Greene?

  No, you can do that. You can find what it is that they need validation about, and you can, you know, give them pep talks, and make it clear to them, this is the most important thing, Louis. Make it clear to them that you still have confidence in them. You haven't lost it. Because the sense that that other person is losing faith in you and your abilities is deadly.

• 1:03:14Lewis Howes?

  That's big.

• 1:03:14Robert Greene?

  So, if you care about that person, and you don't want to see them go down the drain with their insecurities, make it clear that you haven't lost faith in them, and show it to them in certain ways. You know, whatever it is that they're worried about, show them that you still believe that they can accomplish something.

• 1:03:33Robert Greene?

  You know, the relationship I've been in, it predates the forty-eight laws of power just barely, right? And before the forty-eight laws of power, I was a nobody. I had no money, I had no success, I was very frustrated, I was depressed. I was very depressed, even bordering on suicidal.

• 1:03:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:03:52Robert Greene?

  I was thirty-seven, I hadn't going. Didn't bother her, she had faith in me, she had confidence in me, right? She saw that something probably would happen. And, you know, and then it did with the forty-eight laws. But, you know, I could sense that, she could sense that there was something I could do, right? So she kept boosting me about my writing and about my career. So what is it that a person is insecure about? Boost them up, make them feel like you haven't lost faith in them. And that will be almost enough in itself.

• 1:04:26Lewis Howes?

  Robert, like always, I've got one final question for you.

• 1:04:28Robert Greene?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:04:29Lewis Howes?

  But like always, I want to acknowledge you for being my first ever guest on the School of Greatness, for always showing up and being consistent in your life since I've known you in serving people. You're using your uniqueness, your talent, your gifts, your energy, to create beautiful pieces of art that serve and help people. And I think it's incredible that you continue to show up and do this. You don't have to anymore, but you keep doing it. Even when you have your own personal challenges that you're facing, you continue to show up to serve. So I acknowledge you for always being the example, even during challenging times for yourself. It's a beautiful thing to see and I appreciate your friendship.

• 1:05:11Robert Greene?

  Thank you, Lewis.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:05:13Robert Greene?

  Likewise.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:05:14Robert Greene?

  I have very fond memories of that first time you came.

• 1:05:16Lewis Howes?

  First time in your house.

• 1:05:17Robert Greene?

  Your little recording device. You didn't know really what you were doing so much.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  Zero idea. You gave me an opportunity. You said, hey, I'll interview you.

• 1:05:25Robert Greene?

  I liked you, I liked your energy.

• 1:05:27Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:27Robert Greene?

  And I could see that you were good, something was gonna come from this.

• 1:05:31Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. And sometimes when you don't know what's gonna happen sometimes, but you have an enthusiasm and an appreciation and a gratitude and you're having an energy, hopefully good things can happen.

• 1:05:43Robert Greene?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Lewis Howes?

  So I appreciate you being the first one. But I think I also was like, hey, listen, I want to sell a bunch of books of yours and we're gonna do this thing and I was excited about selling books for you. And I think it's always important to create a win-win. You know, experience, so, but I appreciate you taking the chance on me launching the podcast with you as a first.

• 1:06:01Robert Greene?

  Oh, no, no, no, I enjoy, it's very memorable.

• 1:06:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes, yes. My final question is, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:06:10Robert Greene?

  My definition of greatness is kind of what I've talked about before. It's realizing your potential to some degree. So, we may not realize 100% of our potential. I certainly haven't realized 100% of my potential. There are things I probably could have done other, more of. But if your, if your potential is to raise a great family and raise really great kids, and you've done it, that's greatness. If your potential is to, is to just build something, however small it is, and you realized it, and you put, realized 50, 60% of your potential, that is greatness.

• 1:06:54Robert Greene?

  And then you can, you can go to bed at night feeling good and proud of yourself, right? So, a lot of it is, is, it's not the money that matters. It's not the attention that matters. It's the inner feeling you have that you have accomplished something, that you have fulfilled your potential, that you have accomplished some of the dreams that you had as a child for yourself, right? And to have that sense that I have done that, that I have wrote this book, that I created this business, that I started this podcast, that's greatness to me. Of course, there are levels of greatness, right?

• 1:07:35Robert Greene?

  But that, that's enough for me as well, just the sense that I was born with this potential, and I worked, and I realized some of my gifts. I think that's, that's an amazing thing, that's greatness for me.

• 1:07:50Lewis Howes?

  Robert Greene, thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir.

• 1:07:53Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.