Relationship Expert: How To Date To Find The Person You Want To Marry

Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! What if the only destination for dating is marriage? Senior pastor Stephen Chandler unpacks his transformative "Relationship Roadmap" approach, challenging our modern dating culture with refreshing honesty. Stephen shares why intentionality is the missing ingredient in most failed relationships. Through vulnerable stories of his own marriage journey — from being the broke pastor who married a financially stable nurse, to learning the hard way about how his achievement-driven mindset nearly damaged his marriage — Stephen reveals why the two decisions that will define your life are what you do with God and who you choose to spend your life with. This eye-opening conversation delivers practical wisdom for anyone seeking to build a relationship that doesn't just survive but becomes the foundation for true greatness in every area of life. Order Stephen’s book Relationship Road Map: Step-by-Step Directions to Finding Your SpouseOrder Stephen’s book Stop Waiting for Permission: Harness Your Gifts, Find Your Purpose, and Unleash Your Personal GeniusStephen on InstagramStephen on XStephen on FacebookStephen on YouTubeStephen’s websiteIn this episode you will learn:Why dating without marriage as your destination creates detours that delay your path to greatness and damages your heart along the wayHow physical intimacy clouds judgment and prevents you from recognizing relationship red flags before it's too lateThe critical difference between yellow and red flags in dating, and why your trusted community's opinion of your partner matters more than your ownWhy money problems aren't necessarily relationship dealbreakers, but a partner's unwillingness to grow absolutely isHow to create the proper balance between pursuing ambitious goals and making meaningful memories in your relationshipFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1756For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Pastor Sarah Jakes Roberts – greatness.lnk.to/1606SCPastor Michael Todd – greatness.lnk.to/1508SCJillian Turecki – greatness.lnk.to/1740SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneymeasibook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment, moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to this episode on the School of Greatness.

• 0:41Lewis Howes?

  It is a blessed and beautiful day, and I hope you're feeling blessed and grateful for all that you have in your life right now. And if you're feeling stuck or trapped or overwhelmed in some area of your life, trust me, I know the pain. I've been there for many different years off and on, and it is a journey to creating peace, healing, and wholeness inside of you. And if you are feeling overwhelmed in a relationship, if you're feeling like you don't have a good relationship with yourself or with others, then this is going to be a powerful episode because this is all about how to create that beautiful relationship with intention and purpose, and how to challenge modern assumptions about relationships.

• 1:23Lewis Howes?

  If you've been struggling in a relationship, I've had five, six, maybe seven long-term relationships that all struggled for me, that were all hard, that all were up and down, emotional roller coasters, that were all just like, why can't we just make this work? Why is it so challenging? Why is there so much stress and friction and sabotage? And it wasn't until I started to do deeper reflection, deeper healing work, and start creating a relationship with myself from a place of peace and wholeness, when I was able to create and attract a relationship in my life of the same mirror image.

• 2:04Lewis Howes?

  In this episode, we are talking with an aspiring guy named Stephen Chandler, who's going to talk about

• 2:11Lewis Howes?

  The process of dating and staying in a healthy relationship. He, we dive deep into why the only destination for dating should be marriage, which is something that I never thought about. I was actually like, maybe this will happen, but let's see. And let me just get to know you first and this and this. It was never thinking, okay, what, are we really in alignment early on? Are we really on the right path? Or are we just, you know, attracted to each other physically and we have fun and we like each other? So we're going to start investing all this time and energy and realize that we're actually not in alignment. We don't have the same values or the vision and we have a lot of friction, actually. And I'm not saying you're never going to have friction, but it shouldn't be friction every day.

• 2:56Lewis Howes?

  I mean, it's exhausting when you have that. So we dive deep on all these things and how to identify red flags versus yellow flags versus green flags. And why having a clear vision is essential before bringing someone into your life. Because man, I brought a lot of people into my life in the past and it caused a lot of pain and a lot of problems and a lot of setbacks and all these different things. And once I got clear, once I was able to go on the healing journey and create wholeness within me, that's when I was able to create wholeness outside of me. So if you are stuck or struggling in a relationship in your life, or you feel like your relationship with yourself is not where it needs to be, then this is the episode for you and I hope you enjoy it.

• 3:36Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited for you to be here. Please make sure to subscribe to our podcast if you haven't yet over on Apple or Spotify. And share your review, your feedback on this episode on Apple Podcasts so I can hear your thoughts on your review here. I'm so grateful for you and let's go ahead and dive in today's episode. You say we should not be dating unless it's to get married.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that right?

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  How do you phrase that though?

• 4:03Speaker 01

  So the only destination for dating is marriage. And if you go into dating and marriage is not your intention, not that you have to marry the first person you date.

• 4:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  But if that's not your intention to find a spouse, you will get yourself in trouble. One of my thoughts is.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  That was me.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  A marriage license is the only license that they will give you with no training. No education, no test that you have to pass.

• 4:33Lewis Howes?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  If you tell them you want one, they'll just hand it to you. And there's principles that we apply to building business, to getting into shape, fitness, to building wealth. And there's principles to relationships just as much. But if you don't know to look for them, you're not gonna find them.

• 4:51Lewis Howes?

  Did you have a good foundation or training? When you were growing up as a young boy, developing in your teens and early twenties, did you have a foundation of what healthy, conscious marriage looks like?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Ooh, yes and no.

• 5:07Lewis Howes?

  I'm making you uncomfortable already.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? You said, "What's off limits?" And I'm like, "Nothing." And then you start with, "What's off limits?" No, so I have phenomenal parents. My mom and my dad were married for 34 years. My mom passed away from cancer in 2013, which is actually the same year I got married. But, so I had that model, 34 years of a beautiful marriage to watch. But nobody's perfect. And everybody has their own, you know, things that they bring to a marriage and a relationship and all that. So I had a great picture of what it could be. And I also had a great picture of what I didn't want.

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but also, sometimes a great model isn't always the right roadmap. Right? It may not, they may not be giving you the direction. They may be showing something, here's a beautiful destination. How do you get there?

• 5:57Speaker 01

  So I had a great model. I had no roadmap.

• 5:59Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I always laugh and joke. I am, I've been married for 11 years, going on 12. I got three kids. And I'm still waiting for the intimacy talk from my dad. Never came in middle school, never came in high school. It was kind of just like, "Go figure it out." So a lot of us leave home and nobody gave us that roadmap. But I'm blessed to have had some great mentors in my life. One gentleman told me, he said, "Steven, there are two decisions that will define the rest of your life. What you do with God and who you choose to spend the rest of your life with." He said, "A lot of other decisions you can undo, you can redo, but those two," he said, "you can't get those two wrong."

• 6:40Speaker 01

  And with that thought, and a lot of more kind of ideas in that space, really kind of just brought intentionality from young.

• 6:48Lewis Howes?

  What you do with God and who you choose to...

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Spend the rest of your life with.

• 6:52Lewis Howes?

  Those are the two most important decisions.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Two most important decisions you will make in your life.

• 6:55Lewis Howes?

  Do you think people can have a healthy, loving... Abundant relationship if they do not have God at the center of the relationship.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  Ooh, I will say it is very difficult. And here's why. There's a verse in the Bible that says, if you've received love, comfort, joy from God, consider others' needs above your own.

• 7:20Lewis Howes?

  Say that one more time.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  If you've received love, joy, peace, comfort from God, consider others' needs above your own.

• 7:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  One of the keys of making a relationship thrive is when you're in that relationship more for what you can give than what you can get. But if I'm living life from a deficit, I will look at every relationship of what I can get at. And I will.

• 7:47Lewis Howes?

  What I need.

• 7:48Speaker 01

  What I need, and I will bankrupt that relationship because no human was designed to give me everything that I need.

• 7:54Lewis Howes?

  It's almost like you're taking money out of an account.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  That you're not depositing.

• 7:57Lewis Howes?

  You're not depositing in and it's running dry, maybe.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely. So when I found my identity in God, I found comfort in God, I found inner peace in God, then I can step into a relationship not in a deficit. And I can have the desire to serve more than receive. And you know how it works, it's the reciprocity. When I give, I always get back more than I ever was able to give. So it's, like I was saying, impossible, but it's very difficult.

• 8:26Lewis Howes?

  It's more challenging. But I mean, you could also say, people watching or listening might say, well, I know people that are religious or believe in God or go to church together, but they have miserable marriages. They have challenging relationships. And it either they have God at the center or it seems like they do. But why are they divorced? Why are they struggling? Why is there infidelity? Why is there deceit? Why is this still happening to these individuals? And I'm sure you've seen people struggle in your church as well.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  I get in trouble as a pastor for this because obviously I'm a pastor. So it's God first, God over everything, which is 100% true. But I will tell people, shared faith. Is not enough reason to marry somebody. It is a part of a healthy marriage, but it is not the totality of a healthy marriage. And you know, even in the church community, for your Christian audience, we're told, you know, find a Christian and spend the rest of your life with them. And yeah, it's a little bit more than that. If I haven't unpacked past pain, if I don't have a clear vision for what I want to build, I don't know how to communicate, if I haven't found peace internally, if I haven't gotten over this selfishness deal and a heart to actually serve,

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I can bankrupt a relationship and still have God in my life and still bankrupt that relationship.

• 9:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you could have God at the center of your life, but lack the skills, the tools, the self-awareness on how to be a good partner.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 9:52Lewis Howes?

  And that's going to hurt a relationship.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  It will every single time.

• 9:55Lewis Howes?

  So we need the skills that, it sounds like the roadmap, you learn the skills along the way with the roadmap to get you to the destination. But what I'm hearing you say also is we should not, unless you're like in high school or something, or it's just like a fling, you shouldn't be getting into a committed relationship unless you see the possibility of wanting to marry.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Here's how I would describe that. It would be as if someone went to medical school, finished residency, and their career path is I'm going to be a doctor. And they decide to take a three-year job working in a construction firm. Good job, great job, pay the bills, yeah, we meet great people. It will not move you towards the goal of being a physician. It won't prepare you, it's sideways energy, it's a detour. And if you're living an intentional life and you've got a destination, I'm not even saying marriage is the destination, let's say greatness is the destination, the more detours you take, the more you delay getting to where you want to go.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  And if we were humble enough, we would say, there's people that we dated that were detoured.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  That were absolute.

• 11:03Lewis Howes?

  I'm sure, I'm sure, those people would say that about me too.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  And it doesn't mean we were bad people, we didn't have good intentions, but if we're not thinking of that in mind, and it's like, it's not a distraction, because I feel like every relationship is also an experience that educates us, that also gives to us, and hopefully we give to the other person. But it's just, you're taking a detour still if you're not intending for it to go there. And the longer you stay in that relationship, the longer it takes for you to then find the person you're going to be with.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  And potentially the more damaged your heart is.

• 11:36Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Which takes time to unpack and heal, which delays. Here's one of the things people are, oh, we dated, we had a good time, it didn't work out, you know, it was no big deal. No, no, no, no. The most valuable thing you have is your time. Not, not your money. You could always make more money. You can never make more time. And the Bible says wherever your time goes, your heart is gonna follow it.

• 12:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  So is it possible to spend one year, two year, three year with someone, your heart not go? And they be a sense of devastation when it does not work out. So.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  And it takes time to heal and kind of let go of that old identity.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Trust again.

• 12:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and, and, and move on and not think about that person.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  As I'll talk to people, you know, single folks or whatever, they'll say, you know, all men are, or all women are. And I'm like, you haven't met all men. You haven't, but you are now seeing a lens of the world from one person you encountered and had a negative experience with. It takes time to unpack that. Nobody lives a perfect life, but the more of that you can avoid, the faster you can make progress towards a goal you have for your life.

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  What is the problem with having sex in a relationship before marriage?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Oh, it messes your head up. So, th- th- there's a couple, there's a couple of aspects to that. One is, it literally does impair your ability to make healthy decisions. At, ah, almost everybody would admit, I stayed in a relationship longer than I should have. And I can't quite explain to you why I did. I knew it wasn't gonna work. I knew it wasn't the one. And six months later, I'm still there trying to make it work. And what they don't realize is, the physical intimacy brought a sense of responsibility mentally,

• 13:28Speaker 01

  that I have to help this person through whatever they're struggling with, or help them accomplish this goal, or whatever. And it blinds your judgment of red flags, yellow flags. It delays the exit parachute because you're more committed than you ought to be.

• 13:43Lewis Howes?

  Gosh, this is, it clouds your judgment so much when you create that chemical bonding.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  That sexual intimacy. And something that I think about is.

• 13:56Lewis Howes?

  If you're in a relationship or you're dating someone, if you weren't having sex with them, would you want to spend 10 years with them, 20 years with them if there was no sex?

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:05Lewis Howes?

  Do you enjoy their company, their conversation? Do you have the similar values? Are you going in the same direction? And would you want to be with them if that wasn't there? If that was off the table? A lot of people wouldn't.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  And it's one of the, that's gonna sound bad. It's one of the most shallow levels to pick a partner off of.

• 14:24Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  Because, you know, we have great intimacy. Yeah, but, you know, that could be true with a litany of people. We have great conversation. Uh-oh, that narrows the list. Man, we have shared vision and dreams. Oh, that even narrows the list. Man, when I'm around them, they replenish me and they build. There are a lot deeper levels to make decisions on than just, you know, sexual compatibility or whatever it may be. But, once you start there, you get stuck there. And it's harder to evaluate someone at any other level. They're not gonna like to hear that.

• 14:59Lewis Howes?

  No, they don't want to hear that, man. Especially in the modern world, people don't want to think about not having sex before marriage because it seems like, what's the point?

• 15:06Speaker 01

  The other thing is, it puts you in a position, because it is my belief that we were made by God for sex. So it puts you in a position to make a decision faster. When, I could, I could date you for five years. I could date you for 10 years because there's no physical urgency that is driving me to make a decision.

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  What do you mean by that? What do you mean it makes us decide faster?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I think-

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  If we're having it or not having it?

• 15:32Speaker 01

  If we are not having it.

• 15:33Lewis Howes?

  Because then we're like-

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Because it is a-

• 15:35Lewis Howes?

  We want it.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Godly desire. It is a godly desire. It is an outlet of stress. It, all that other kind of stuff. So when I don't have it, it's like, okay, I've got to figure out, how can I put myself in a position where that's a part of my life? And if marriage is the only option for me, then I'm gonna be a lot more intentional about getting to marriage faster. So I'm not going to date people that I know are not marriage material.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna stay in a relationship that I know is not headed towards marriage. I will have a lot higher standards. Can I say it this way? When I want to have sex-

• 16:11Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  And I've relegated it to marriage.

• 16:13Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting. So if men or women take sex off the table, how much happier do you think they would be in the dating phase? Or in the relationship phase before marriage?

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Well, here's what I will say. It depends on what else is on the table. Because just like God is not the totality of every relationship, sex is not either. So if you take sex off the table, but you still can't communicate, you still don't have clear vision, um, there, there's not gonna be much joy there.

• 16:41Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Um, but if you are taking sex off the table, because you're making a decision, I'm gonna be intentional about this entire process, I am telling you, you will have greater joy and you will have greater success in the long run.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  So for a lot of people who are watching or listening, they, they probably are, have struggled in relationships and they're not sure on how to make theirs the best possible they can right now. Maybe they're going through a challenge right now. And it seems like we've got a single phase, dating phase, committed dating phase, and then a choice to be married and committed, hopefully long-term phase. And marriage, right? What would be the step-by-step process then? From being single to getting into a relationship that will lead to a beautiful, loving marriage?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  I will say this, you've gotta do the visionary work when you're single, before you bring anybody into the picture.

• 17:47Lewis Howes?

  What does that look like?

• 17:48Speaker 01

  So my, my children, I got three kids, uh, eight, six, and three. And our new obsession is puzzles. So we'll, we'll build thousand-piece, five-thousand-piece puzzle or whatever. If you ever built a puzzle, you know, the picture is on the cover of the box.

• 18:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  And then all of your time is just trying to create the picture that you see. A lot of people go into dating and they've never established a picture of marriage that they want to build. So you've gotta start with, what is my end destination? Where do I wanna go? Do you remember back in the day before there was GPS? And you had to go on a computer and punch your directions in and all that. It says, MapQuest or whatever. All that other good stuff. What's your current location and what's your final destination? And let me give you some final destination questions. Not just, I wanna be married, but what do we, I want our life to look like financially? What do I want our life to look like romantically? What do I want our life to look like with communication and all that? Now that I've got a picture, and it can't be too specific

• 18:47Speaker 01

  that only one person on the globe can fit into this picture. But man, a woman or a man, they can fit into that picture. Now I'm out just looking for who's the person that can fit into the picture that I have. So that's step one, you gotta have a vision. Step two is, don't waste your time with anybody who can't fit into that picture. Be intentional. But in the beginning, you know, exchange numbers, we go on a date, whatever it may be. We've decided we're gonna date and be exclusive. It is so important that that first season. And if you ask me, I'll give you a timeline. If you don't, I won't push it.

• 19:23Lewis Howes?

  What's the timeline?

• 19:24Speaker 01

  I say this, no shorter than 12 weeks and not much longer than eight months.

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  In terms of what, just dating, a dating phase?

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Of just having fun.

• 19:35Lewis Howes?

  Oh, really?

• 19:36Speaker 01

  And what I find is some people, they get too heavy too soon. So it's like, the first date, how many kids you wanna have?

• 19:44Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  What's your credit score? You know, what's your idea of wealth? And it's just like, I don't even know you, and I don't even know if I like you. Let's just enjoy life because friendship is one of the greatest foundations of any healthy marriage.

• 19:59Lewis Howes?

  But what if, I wanna push back and ask you about this. What if, man, you can have fun with this person, but you haven't asked the tough questions until three, six, eight months in? And you realize, oh, our values are not aligned. Like, we can go out and have great dinner and go bowling and go travel. And man, we have great conversation and same interests, but, oh, they actually don't want kids.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they're actually in debt a hundred grand, and that scares me. Oh, actually, they don't wanna-

• 20:27Speaker 01

  We gotta talk of the debt thing.

• 20:28Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they actually don't wanna, you know, raise our kids in this way.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:32Lewis Howes?

  They, you know, their in-laws are so intertwined in the relationship that it's too, whatever it is, you know. Whatever, how can we ask questions that make sure they fit the picture? Without interrogating him too much?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  So let me go out on a limb. What is in a person's heart will come out their mouth. It is impossible for what is in your heart not to come out of your mouth. So in that, yes, you're having fun, but you're observing.

• 21:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  You're watching, hold on, we've been together for six months. You've never even mentioned your parents. Like, that's gonna be very obvious. Hey, we've been hanging out for four months. You've never introduced me to your friends. Without interrogating them.

• 21:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 01

  If you're paying attention, you may not know if they want to have kids or not. I'm getting in trouble. But if that's the person that you want to spend the rest of your life with, that may not be a deal breaker. Once you fall in love with them.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Or they may say, I want to have a kid with you.

• 21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they may change your opinion.

• 21:38Lewis Howes?

  You know what's interesting? There was, as I reflect back on all the challenging relationships that didn't work out. But that taught me beautiful lessons.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  I don't blame any of these individuals. I was equally a part of them.

• 21:53Lewis Howes?

  There's something, you asked me before we started the conversation. And you said something around the fact of like, how do you know she was the one? For me?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:05Lewis Howes?

  Martha. And I didn't really give you the clearest answer. But I knew she could be the one. When I realized she was resourceful enough to take care of our future kids. If we had them and something happened to me where I died.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:23Lewis Howes?

  Where I was no longer able to provide.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:26Lewis Howes?

  I trusted that she was a resourceful woman. That she was a spiritual woman. That she was able to do things where she could provide and value in so many other ways to children if we decided to have them. And if we decided to get married, all these different things. A few months in.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:45Lewis Howes?

  And I was like, this is a woman.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  And I was always dating girls.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  Where I felt like I had to rescue or they weren't resourceful. But this person I can trust with my kids. And that made me feel like, oh, this is, maybe she's not the one, but she could be the one. It was like a feeling.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  This conversation, it might end a few relationships. Hopefully it starts some too. I was dating this girl, I was actually in high school at the time. And I was dating this girl and my mom just couldn't stand her. But my mom knew I was stubborn enough that if she told me, I'd have studied and stayed in it a lot longer. And she said something along the lines of, she said two things. She said, one, Steven, I'm pretty much the same girl I was when I was 16. And she's like 54 at the time. She said, I've matured in all that, but my personality is this. What she was saying is, Steven, you're waiting for this girl to change. Okay, she's not gonna change. The other thing she said is, um, pick somebody that you wouldn't mind raising your children. Which is kinda like what you just said.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  Wouldn't mind raising them, yeah, yeah.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Listen, a lot of us will stay in a toxic relationship because we're like, I can handle it. You know, it's what, it look crazy, but you know, I can deal with it and all. But then when you kinda step back and you do what you said, if I wasn't here, is this who I want my daughter to become like? Is this who I want my son to become like? Is there values what I want to shape the legacy of my? All of a sudden, you begin to narrow that and say, no, no. Or, and this is for some of the people that are watching this conversation, there's a good friend that you've kept in the friend zone for a long time. And if you were to take a step back and you'd realize, this is the type of person that has the values that I want my family to have.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  And maybe you're overlooking someone that you shouldn't be.

• 24:33Lewis Howes?

  Why, maybe I'm just speak for myself in my twenties, but why do so many of us choose people over, over, with sexual connection over friendship? To be in relationships of like attraction.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 24:51Lewis Howes?

  Wow, we have a great connection, or they're a great kisser, they look so good, or we're like compelled by the physical versus the spiritual or the friendship.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Let me, let me give you the answer that you probably wouldn't expect the pastor to say. Uh, physical matters, physical matters. You see before you hear. You see before you experience, and I believe God made us that way. I think there is someone for everybody, so I think everybody is attractive to somebody. But at the end of the day, I've got to wake up next to you. Every single day, I've got to lay eyes on you, and I know we grow, life changed, bodies changed and all that. But I don't think that physical attraction should be discredited or ignored.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  And, I mean, let's be real, nobody wants to be in a relationship with someone that they're not attracted to me, but they like my mind. Or, you know, I've got a great personality.

• 25:50Lewis Howes?

  A good person.

• 25:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't want to hear that. So I think physical attraction is the first step. The issue is, most people, it's kind of like credit cards or whatever it may be, most people don't have the self-control.

• 26:02Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  To be able to manage the physical attraction. That's important, it's a part, but it's not the totality. And I've got to be intentional enough, okay, physical attraction is ticked off on the list. But now let me go deeper and see if there's other things there that make it worth taking a step forward. So I wouldn't discredit it altogether. And you said in your twenties, well, that's, you know, some of the most immature seasons of our lives. Ain't nobody thinking very deep in their twenties, so that's kind of the.

• 26:32Lewis Howes?

  I always think about this, I don't know how people get married in their twenties. Cause for me, I just feel like I would have been married and divorced.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:40Lewis Howes?

  If I would, or I just had a really challenging time, if I'd gotten married the way that I know I thought in my twenties. Or just my ability to manage my emotions, or just all that stuff, I would have really struggled. Do you think people should wait longer to get married, or getting married young is a good thing?

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Absolutely not, get married young.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Okay, so, I'm getting in trouble again. So when I got married, I was 26. I wanted to get married at 23. I blame my wife. I'm like, I don't know what she was, she was wasting my time, where was she at? But, um, I got married when I was 26, she was 25.

• 27:14Lewis Howes?

  How long were you dating for?

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Okay, why are you getting me in trouble? Okay, so here's the whole story. Uh, we dated for 10 months. So first date was December. Actually, no, I'm talking about first date to marriage.

• 27:27Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so how long did you know her for?

• 27:28Speaker 01

  That's the thing, two years.

• 27:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay, so you knew her?

• 27:31Speaker 01

  We knew her, she knew my family, we were friends for two years. So it wasn't somebody I was learning.

• 27:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  So anyway, first date in December, we got married in August, so not even a full year. But, and like you said, man, if I got married in my twenties, there'd be so many challenges that I'd face. We faced all of them.

• 27:49Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 27:50Speaker 01

  You're a hundred percent right, but here's the deal. When you get married in your thirties, you face those challenges. When you get married in your forties, you face those challenges. So here's what I'll tell people, it's like investing for retirement. The earlier you start, that compound interest, sorry.

• 28:08Lewis Howes?

  I know, man, it's so hard.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Pays off.

• 28:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, if you can get through it together.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  If you can get through it.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  But if you can't, it's gonna be five, 10 years of stress.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  One of the things that I say in the book is that marriage was never supposed to be done in isolation. You, I actually tell people, do not date or marry someone that doesn't have great mentors in their life. Whether it's family members or just wise counsel in their life. And those difficult seasons that you talk about that, I'd like to submit, nobody gets through marriage without facing those difficult seasons, and you come out stronger on the other side. When you've got wise mentors around you, what are they gonna tell you? Ah, we've been through the same thing. Oh, you wanna kill each other? Yep, and they're done that month of T-shirt, you'll make it through. Oh, you're just being prideful, you need to humble yourself.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that's major, y'all need to go to counseling. You've got people to walk you through the journey, and all of a sudden, you realize, no, this is normal. This is powerful. A lot of people jump out of a marriage because they didn't have anybody in their life to tell you, this is normal. Most people go, it's gonna sound bad. I think every married couple at some point in their life have secretly thought, oh God, I married the wrong person.

• 29:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I just made the worst decision of my life. And it's just part of the journey. But if you don't have wise people in your life, you're gonna think, A, you're the only person experiencing this, and B, this is a reason to make a lifetime change. When the right mentor in your life is able to say, no. Then they're done that. That's normal. Or, no, it is as major as you think it is.

• 29:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  And this may be a reason for a lifetime change.

• 29:55Lewis Howes?

  When you were working on the writing of this book, Relationship Roadmap, what was something that you realized that you believe in? Maybe you preach at your church frequently, and you know really works well in a marriage, that you went against or struggled with earlier in your marriage?

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 30:21Lewis Howes?

  Or was a challenge for you to fully embrace in your journey?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think one of the things that I had to learn in marriage is while I believe as a husband, it's my job to lead my family, it is more important for me to love my family than to lead my family. So, in our space, you know, especially, you know, most of your audience, they're trying to maximize their life. They're building phenomenal careers, businesses, and all that other good stuff. You see almost everything in your life as what's the opportunity? What's the next major thing? And I realized I was pushing my wife to accomplish goals that she didn't have for herself.

• 31:09Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  And didn't slow down enough to realize not what do you see her as, but what's in her heart that she wants to do. And I also-

• 31:18Lewis Howes?

  So you were pushing and driving and trying to accomplish her creator. Let's do this.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  That's what I did in every other area of my life.

• 31:23Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  It's everything.

• 31:25Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to just, how can I be in love?

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I was missing the opportunity to create memories and moments because I could only see what was next. Which is, I mean, it's immaturity, but you imagine, we all do it though. All you think about is marriage.

• 31:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, well, the thing you say is the first two steps in your roadmap is have a clear vision, like the picture in mind, and don't waste your time essentially on anyone who can't fit that picture. But if you have that same approach towards goal accomplishment, this is the end result, we gotta go do this, you're not enjoying the moments in the present.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  The danger of vision is panic and insecurity. If you feel like that vision is possibly not going to come to pass, you begin to push at unhealthy paces and you can bring that into a relationship.

• 32:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  So.

• 32:18Lewis Howes?

  So that was something you did early on?

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:20Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  When did you wake up to it and say, okay, I just need to create memories and moments and be present day by day, even if it's not pushing towards my timeline of this goal?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Well, I think there was a couple of factors. One was I thought marriage was going to bring a relief from the exhaustion of leading and building.

• 32:46Lewis Howes?

  The weight.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  The weight of it, that emotional drain. And when I was in the marriage and still as exhausted as I was before, I'm like, oh, dude, you're doing something wrong because it's not bringing the relief. And then you realize, ah, it was me all along. It wasn't this person or whatever.

• 33:02Lewis Howes?

  It's not going to fix something or solve something, yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  I think one thing that we don't talk about in terms of this journey of vision and greatness is there is some peace that comes with success.

• 33:15Lewis Howes?

  For some people.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  For some people.

• 33:17Lewis Howes?

  For some people, it's like, what's next? What's next? It's not enough.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  But I think some of my goals started to become accomplished. And I began to realize, okay, Stephen, you can calm down. You can slow down. And also, if you don't, you're not going to like the person you're becoming.

• 33:33Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:34Speaker 01

  So you probably need to. Take a step back.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 33:38Speaker 01

  And I think feeling the exhaustion when I thought it'd be gone after marriage and some of those goals being accomplished at ages far before I thought they were going to be accomplished. I realized, okay, you kind of need to chill out a little bit and live life, not just drive life.

• 33:55Lewis Howes?

  Really? So you accomplished a lot of your big goals and dreams earlier than you expected.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  And then you realized I need to take some pauses or take some breaks or be more present.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  You realize there's more to life than just the next goal.

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  It's interesting you say that because Michael Todd, when he was on here, he said early on he had a mentor. When he was getting into his, you know, becoming a pastor and learning how about how to be, you know, an effective leader. He said he had a mentor who told him you need to take a month off every year. No matter how successful, how busy, how many people want your time and attention, how many opportunities.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:29Lewis Howes?

  You need to schedule a month off, otherwise it's gonna trap you, you know, and you're gonna burn out.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  And he said he always does that every year. I think he does it every year, but he even said I had a his, one of his last books that came out was a New York Times bestseller for like 16 weeks in a row. He goes, I had all these opportunities to go do more press, but I had this scheduled in for this month. And the week I left to stop doing press, the book came off the New York Times bestseller list, but I'm at peace with that. Because I know I'm in this for the long term and not just trying to grab everything right now.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  And so it sounds like you have a similar approach to making sure you either have days, weeks, or time where you reflect, recover, and relax.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Life will always give you opportunities that are not worth taking. Every opportunity has a cost and you've got to make the decision, I'm not willing to pay that cost. What's the cost? I'm not willing to lose my health. I'm not you willing to lose the relationships that matter to me, or whatever is on your list. And you know, early on, you say yes to everything. You have to. You have to, because there's not a lot of. Survive, man, yeah. But after a while, it is your no's that catapult you forward. Yes. Not your yeses.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  And for driven people, that is so hard to figure out. I see this when it comes in, I put this in the book, actually started the book off, talking about, I had, you know, a great personal success. And it was just email came, it was mind blowing and all that. And, you know, in my space as a pastor, I can't get on Instagram and be like, ah, look at me now. Like, that's not very appropriate. So I go home, I turn on the radio, I'm blasting OutKast, I'm on the kitchen countertop going off, and my wife comes, she jumps on the countertop, and we're just celebrating. And I finally learned how to make moments. And in that moment, it struck me, and I hope this kind of shakes somebody.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  What use is it of accomplishing greatness if when I get there, I've got nobody to share it with? There's, the moment doesn't really become a moment if there's not people there that can scream and shout and just fully celebrate me in that moment. That's what marriage is. And a lot of times, it's, I think some people would just see marriage as an inconvenience. It's just like, I got this other miserable person that I gotta keep happy. I can't even keep myself happy. Like, I don't got the time for that. I'm too busy hitting this goal and hitting that. And what if you accomplished every goal in your life before you died?

• 37:21Speaker 01

  What would you do in that gap between all my goals are accomplished? And I leave this earth. I'll tell you what you want to do. You want to spend time with your grandkids. You want to impart all the wisdom you received to the next generation. You want to sit down with your spouse and say, look at what we built. Look at what we accomplished. But you've got to start making that investment in your early twenties. Before, you know, that time comes.

• 37:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, there's an amazing book called Die With Zero. That that talks about memory dividends.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:53Lewis Howes?

  And if we're not creating these moments now and having time to reflect on them now also in our twenties, thirties, forties, or whatever. We won't have the dividends of the memories later as well.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  We've got to enjoy those moments and make moments and be present to them. But you said something about opportunities. Life will always give you opportunities.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  That are not worth paying the cost for.

• 38:17Lewis Howes?

  How do you know which opportunities to take and which ones not to? And in relationships or in business or life?

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you have got to have a set of personal values. Before you step out of the house. Of there are certain compromises I will not make for any cost. And it is for wisdom's sake. Because it's not like I'm just, you know, this, you know, highly moral, better than everybody else type of person. I know that compromise will lead me to a place I don't want to go. So hopefully all of us have some level of moral value. Where there are certain things we will not lie, we won't steal. There's certain things we won't do for success.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  We should have values of, I'm not going to compromise my health. I've got to be able to sleep at night. I've got to be able to eat well. I'm going to have time for physical exercise. Why? Because I'm going to end up on an operating table before I can accomplish all the goals of my life. So it's that. And it doesn't have to be a deep list. But it needs to be moral. It needs to be health. I think it needs to be relational. That I am not willing to sacrifice these key relationships for any level of success. And then every opportunity that comes, I then determine.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  Is this gonna cause me to compromise one of my values? Which is really scary. So this year, I decided I'm gonna cut back my travel.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Uh, last year, I traveled fifty-three different engagements. So that's almost once a week. And you know how it works.

• 40:00Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot, man.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  You try to pile them all into one week. So some of those are like three.

• 40:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you're on the road, constantly traveling, time zones, different beds, different foods. Out of your routine.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:10Lewis Howes?

  And now with your family, all these things.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  But I've got an eight-year-old, a six-year-old, and a three-year-old.

• 40:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  My eight-year-old is a female girl. And she's starting to notice when daddy's gone.

• 40:19Lewis Howes?

  Eee.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  And I said, man, eight to sixteen, eight to eighteen.

• 40:23Lewis Howes?

  You only got a handful of years with her.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Only got a handful of years. Ten years from now, she'll be eighteen. Ten years from now, I'll be forty-eight. I can travel and speak all over the globe from forty-eight to a hundred. I cannot spend those years with her ever again. I made the decision, I'm gonna cut back travel. And I'm gonna make sure that I tuck them in bed at night. And I'm dropping them off at school in the morning as much as possible.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  You know what happened? Every speaking engagement I ever wanted.

• 40:50Lewis Howes?

  They all came to you. They're like, they tempt you.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Where were y'all?

• 40:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. When I was on the road, I was a road. Road dog over here, you know, running around.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  It's just like, hey, kid, come do this. Yep, no. Oh, come. But I made a decision alone with my wife. These are certain things that I am not willing to compromise for any goal or level. And here's what I just know. You can call it God, you can call it life. But I know whatever sacrifices you make based on personal value, you will never go without. You will always reap a reward on the other side of that decision, a lot greater than anything you sacrifice.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  How can someone trust that, though? If they're like, man, there's this massive opportunity where it could bring me money or some deal flow or some person that's gonna help me further my career. And I'm gonna say, no, do it. And trust that it's gonna eventually come somewhere else. And I stick to these values?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  So there's, there's two ways, and both of them stick. One is, you just gotta live long enough. There, there are certain things that only time will prove to you. The other way is, you gotta trust somebody else's word.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  You gotta have a mentor who's been there and done that. Who says one of two things. I didn't trust that and I regret it. Don't make the mistake I made. Or I did and I'm so glad I did. I'm cautioning you to follow in my footsteps. But if you're not gonna learn from time and you're not gonna learn from a mentor, you gonna learn the hard way.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  Man. Speaking of the roadmap, the first step was having a clear vision. I think that's really important is like we have to at least have an idea of what we want. If we're just like, I don't know, let me just date a bunch of people. You're gonna get a bunch of different things. But I think you gotta have a clear vision of like the type of relationship you want. And don't waste time with anyone who can't fit into that vision. What would be the next few steps on the relationship roadmap?

• 42:49Speaker 01

  So you got that season, 12 weeks to eight months where we're seeing, are we friends? Do chemistry is what we call it. Do I enjoy being around this person? And then after that, you need to have a season where you are determining how closely aligned are our values? Or are the yellow flags that I absolutely identified over the last eight months of having fun, are they red flags or can they be turned into green flags?

• 43:22Lewis Howes?

  How do you know the difference between yellow, green and red flags?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Well, that's major. Here's what I would say on green flags. Don't trust your green flags. Because whether you are intimate or not, you got that puppy love going on. You can't think straight. So make sure that the person you're interested in, it'll sound very corporate, is vetted by your trusted community. Get them around friends who know you better than you know yourself.

• 43:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Get them around, absolutely. And I'll, I'm gonna get more trouble. If you're a man and you're dating a woman, get that girl you're interested in around other females that you trust. Because women have a way of tricking all of us guys. I mean, if she's pretty, she's gorgeous.

• 44:06Lewis Howes?

  You can't think.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  None of us are thinking straight. No, get her around a woman that ain't impressed and that knows all the tricks. And you know, vice versa. So that's a green flag. Yellow flags, you mentioned it and I kinda cringed. Oh, they have $100,000 worth of debt. Okay, hold on, that can be paid off. I would you really miss out on a really great person? Because financially?

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  Depends how it is, though. If it's like, oh, they invested in like going to to school to because they have a vision for their life. And this was a part of that versus.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  They got 28 credit cards.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, they're just like, they're not thoughtful of money.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  Then there might be a different type of issue.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  And that's why it's yellow. Yellow means investigate more. It's not a deal breaker. And it's also not a, oh, it's no big deal, keep going forward. It's more investigation needed.

• 44:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what are they doing to improve or how are they handling it, things like?

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Some people are like, I will never, you know, date or marry somebody who has children. Whoa, hold on. You can be missing out on a phenomenal person. Once again, it depends what's the circumstances? What's the level of maturity and health in handling and managing that reality? And you can, there are some blended families that have built amazing lives.

• 45:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  And then there's some people who've married some people with no kids.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Have done the exact opposite.

• 45:32Lewis Howes?

  It's true.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  So yellow means more investigation needed. Red obviously means run for your life. And this, the, these are things that, here's how I would put it. It's an issue. And that person is showing zero interest in building and growing in that area.

• 45:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, zero. Zero, all right, what am I doing?

• 45:55Speaker 01

  So let's, let's talk about emotional regulation. We automatically think about the person with anger, with rage, you know, whatever it may be. And you're just like, oh, oh, that's a warning flag. Can I give you another red warning flag? Somebody with zero emotions.

• 46:12Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Somebody who cannot celebrate wins.

• 46:15Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Somebody who can't celebrate themselves or others. That is going to be very frustrating in a marriage when I'm dealing with someone who cannot emote.

• 46:26Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  And we only see one side of the spectrum as the red flag. We don't, matter of fact, especially if you come out of a dramatic relationship, you might actually enjoy the fact

• 46:36Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  that there's not much emotion going on in this new one. But that will come, and, and, and it's not that the emotion or lack of emotion or whatever it may be is a red flag. It is their unwillingness to grow and develop in that area. Hear me, without your input, don't fix the person you're dating. It's not your job and you're not capable of it. And if you are dragging a boyfriend or a girlfriend to a level of life that they don't want to live at, what do you think marriage is gonna look like?

• 47:14Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  You're gonna, it's a life sentence of dragging someone a place that they do not want to go. So you've got to evaluate, does this person have a motivation? You can have three hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. But if they're like, oh, it used to be five hundred. I've paid off two and I, I, I have a vision for my own life financially. Obviously, that's somebody I want to partner with.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  But, yeah.

• 47:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you can't change your partner. And one of the things, one of the big agreements that I made with Martha when we got into a relationship

• 47:49Lewis Howes?

  was, I was like, listen, I'm never gonna get upset at you. I'm gonna be maybe frustrated or maybe we're gonna have like disagreements, but I'm never gonna be angry at you for your way of being or who you are. Because I feel like I've gotten to know you. I feel like I've seen your personality. We've had this time together. And I'm choosing to get into this relationship, accepting you for who you are. And because I'm gonna accept you, I shouldn't try to change you.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:17Lewis Howes?

  I know you have a growth mindset, so you're gonna be growing on your own. I know you want coaching and therapy because you're already doing it. So you're in a mindset of like, how can I reflect and improve and grow? So me trying to change you doesn't work. And I have one condition, don't try to change me. Accept me as well.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:35Lewis Howes?

  It's who I am and I'm gonna grow and I do coaching and I have mentors, things like that.

• 48:41Lewis Howes?

  But as long as we can accept each other, I think it could be a beautiful relationship. That's when things get in trouble. And that's what I dealt with in my past was like, I always felt like I had to change to make someone happy.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:51Lewis Howes?

  And that's exhausting.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You used a perfect phrase, a growth mindset.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Because I cannot change anyone.

• 49:00Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  But we all have to change as life changes. If that person does not come with a growth mindset themselves, oh, I'm in trouble. So what I'm looking for, and I think that's a great way to kind of sum up the red flags. There are really no red flag, deal breaker, run for your life for a person who has a growth mindset.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Because whatever that flag is, it's only temporary.

• 49:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  The red flag is this person has zero interest in becoming the best version of themselves.

• 49:33Lewis Howes?

  Run.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Fat.

• 49:36Lewis Howes?

  Run. This is gonna be a controversial question or conversation we're about to talk about.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  I'm here for it.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  What is the the difference between a man's role in a marriage? A woman's role in a marriage and God's role in a marriage?

• 49:56Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. Well, God is easy. That's an easy one. It's God's job to change everybody. Everybody else, leave that to Him. That's not your job. So that's, that was easy. Who, the man and the woman's role? So let me, let me start. I ain't scared. Let's do this. Let's start off with this. Let's talk basketball.

• 50:17Lewis Howes?

  You use the same analogy I use.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Listen.

• 50:19Lewis Howes?

  You use the same one I use. I love this.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  Let's take, let's take men, male and female roles out of the equation.

• 50:25Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  And let's just say this, somebody gotta play point guard.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  What, we can't both dribble at the same time?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  It's only one basketball, okay?

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  Can't both bring it up at the court at the same time?

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Somebody's gotta be center. Somebody gotta get that rebound. Somebody gotta start the fast break. Like, we, there is no, let's say it this way. There is no organization that does not have clearly defined roles.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  No successful organization.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  No successful organization.

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  Might be some that.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Literally, but that's why they're not successful.

• 50:53Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  I'm a pastor, obviously, I believe the word of God is the way to live. A lot of people don't realize this. The marriage and family was the first organization ever created in scripture. Before there was business, before there was church, before there was government, there was family. So when you look at the family as an organization, there are roles.

• 51:13Lewis Howes?

  And what are the, the best use of the roles for men and women in marriage?

• 51:19Speaker 01

  All right, you go, you go pin me in the corner. This is my belief and you're free to disagree with me. I think, I think the band has a few roles. I think one of the primary roles is to protect. I think it is the man's role for his spouse, for his children, to protect physically and to protect emotionally, which is very interesting in this generation because some of the greatest threats to our family won't come at the front door. It's gonna come through the internet. And I've got to know what's on my kids' phones and what's on their tablets. And I've got, you know, all that other, other kind of stuff. So I think protection is major. I think it is the man's role to be the provider of the household. And this is where I get in trouble.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  Are you saying a woman can't make more than a man? And what if she makes more than a man? And do you believe in stay at home dads? This is where I will get canceled. I do not believe in stay at home dads. And I'll tell you why real quick. If you're gonna cancel me, let me say this first. Because I don't think work is about money.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  What's work about?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  I think work is about God's place you on this earth to fix a problem that nobody else can fix but you. And it has nothing to do with income. And I think as a man in particular, if you haven't figured out what the problem on this earth for you to solve is, there will always be a discontent on the inside and it has nothing to do with income.

• 52:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I call that, I call that purpose.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's what's the purpose you're meant to do to solve that problem to help fix it.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Are you saying that raising kids is not a man's purpose? Let me get in trouble. I don't think it's a woman's purpose. Cause them kids are gonna be there for 18 years. That woman's gonna live for 60, 70, 80 years. I think even women need to have a purpose outside of, I just wanna raise kids and then sit around for my grandkids. Like, no, there, there's a greater impact. Not there's anything wrong with that. And once again, fulfilling your purpose doesn't have to come with an income. So I'm not saying everybody has to be out here working in corporate America or whatever else it may be. I love how you're looking at me like this guy's gonna back himself into a corner.

• 53:26Lewis Howes?

  Nah, I'm just.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  But, so when, when it comes to provision, here's what I would say for a man. You've gotta make enough money for your family to have a roof over their head and food on the table. If your wife makes a lot more than you, great. It just means the quality of life, the level of living, the experience that you're gonna have are gonna be greater. But if she does not wanna work, we will have a house to live in, we will have food on the table, we'll have clothes on our back. And everything after that is icing on the cake.

• 53:55Lewis Howes?

  What if she's like, oh, my man's not able to provide in the same way that all my girlfriend's men provide. And so that we, we have to, we live in a way that is not as enjoyable as them. I can't go and do certain things with my friends because we don't have the means, because my man isn't providing for me.

• 54:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:12Lewis Howes?

  So I'm gonna have to step up and go make my own money because he can't provide.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  Well, that's real.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  And you may not like me for this, but that's what I said before you date him. Have your vision. And when you're interested and you're looking to spend, does this person fit into my vision? And here's what's difficult. It's not fair. 10 years into your marriage to switch the vision. If you were content with this level of living before you met those people, it's not fair to now have a resentment towards someone that they're not fulfilling a promise that they never made.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  But that's tricky though. 10, 20 years, you might have a new vision. You might have a new vision for life. You might have different goals, different seasons.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  We've been walking through it. And if you married a growth mindset person.

• 55:06Lewis Howes?

  They'll be growing and earning more.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  They will go with you.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  The issue is, I got somebody who doesn't have that growth mindset.

• 55:11Lewis Howes?

  I know. That's the challenge. But, okay, Stephen, at 22, you're not making squat. You know, you're making 10, 12 bucks an hour. You're not providing. You can't even afford rent. You're still at home.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:22Lewis Howes?

  How are you gonna marry someone who can't provide when you're that young getting married?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  So, we do this, you know, Singles Night, and I mean, this last one was 3,000 singles. And it was, you know, Q and A and all that. And one of the number one question from women, especially women in their 30s, was, you know, I've got, you know, three master's degrees, I have a six-figure income.

• 55:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  I've got my 401K. I will, I will not.

• 55:46Lewis Howes?

  I've got my home.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  Literally, I will not settle for a man who cannot match me financially. And I said, you know, let my wife take this. But I said, well, my wife made more money than me when we got married. I was a pastor of a church of 50 people.

• 56:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, making nothing.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Nothing. She was a nurse. I mean, first of all, nurses make good money. And then she could take all the overtime she wanted. So if her decision was strictly financial, I wouldn't have had a shot. But, and so they asked her, well, why did you marry him? Because he was broke. And I was, here's the funny thing. My wife had no debt. I brought all the debt. Student loans, like, car debt. It was a mess.

• 56:27Lewis Howes?

  That's why you justify a hundred thousand dollars.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Don't give a fuck about the guy with debt. I got caught. But here's what she said. She said, it was a simple decision because I married a man with a vision. And she said, a man with money and no vision. Is not guaranteed to have money for long. But a man with no money, a vision and the track record that he has the work ethic to accomplish that vision. She said, I followed him because he had the proof that he was going to work.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  And he had a vision of where he was going.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you weren't just sleeping on your parents' couch trying to trying to figure out life, just being a charmer. You were working, you were devoted, you were committed, you had a vision for your life, you were developing your skills. And so someone can sense and feel that.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  You can't evaluate somebody based on their net worth.

• 57:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Because that is a temporary measurement.

• 57:15Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Um, you've got to evaluate them based on their vision, based on their work ethic. And based on the proof that they accomplish what they say.

• 57:22Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  They're going to accomplish.

• 57:24Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of like what beauty and looks are for men in women.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  Money is to women in men. It's like you could see the person with a lot of money and can be very seductive and attractive. Oh, this person can provide for me.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:39Lewis Howes?

  But do they have a good character, good values? Do they have good relationships? Or are they just going to, you know, be abusive in some way? Because they feel like they have money or power.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  So this conversation started with what's a man's role? What's a women's, what was a woman's role? And, you know, everything's fluid nowadays and everybody could do whatever. But nah, because women do have a need for security. Will say, oh, she just wants him for his money and she's a gold digger. No, hold on. Maybe it is, there's an internal need in women of I need to feel secure. And part of security is, is there going to be a roof over my head?

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  And food on the table. What women have done is, well, I don't want to trust him for the security because he may walk out the door. And now I'm high and dry, so I will go out and get it myself. But it's not just all about, I just want money and I want to live a great life with my friends. It is a God instilled need in women to feel security. And it is the man's job to provide that security. I will say.

• 58:46Lewis Howes?

  What about the women watching or listening to say, I don't want to put my security in a man until he can prove he's trustworthy. So I'm just going to always have this, create the security for myself and be in control of my own life.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  I will say yes, in the, um.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Thought. Wrong in the reaction. I do not want to put all of my thought, hopes and trust in a man providing security. Great. While I'm dating. While I'm giving him time to prove to me who he is. Yeah, that's the time. Don't trust him. Make him prove himself.

• 59:24Lewis Howes?

  But then when you're getting committed or in a marriage, you just surrender all trust?

• 59:28Speaker 01

  And here's why I say that. You're gonna trust him with your kids?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  But not your financial future? That, and here's what it really comes down to. It begins to show us where money falls in our life. Because we will give somebody our body. We'll give them our kids. But we will not trust them with our money. What's more important, we would all say, my physical health. My children mean so much more to me than my money. But if we look at the number one thing we talk about. And we look at the hierarchy that we put our trust in. Money is usually the last area.

• 1:00:03Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  Because money, uh oh. Plug for the book. Is so connected to our hearts and our worldview. And a lot of us have not done the work of unpacking that connection between money and our heart. So it really is not, I don't trust this person with my money.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  It's I don't trust him with my heart.

• 1:00:29Lewis Howes?

  So why get married to the person? If you don't trust them with your heart?

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Because none of us think that deeply. It's just that simple. I thought I trusted them with my heart. But when you realize, I actually haven't handed my whole life to them. It's the fact that I don't trust them with heart. In healthy marriage, trust is built. Nobody's been married for 24 hours.

• 1:00:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  And they 100% trust the person that they're, it takes time. And that's the beauty of building a relationship.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  So the man's role, I'm hearing you say is protect and provide. Is there any other role that the man should have in marriage?

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  The man is also the visionary of the household. And that's, you know, once again, very sensitive. But it is a man's job to say, here is where I believe our marriage, our family, our finances, our children, our children's education. This is where it can go, or this is where it should go. And you're having fun with getting in trouble. You're gonna get comments. But you will find a lot of women that have to drive vision and conversations in their relationships and in their marriage. They will say, I do it because I have to, because he won't.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  Because he's not leading.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Not because I want to.

• 1:01:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  And a lot of women that step out of relationships, they'll say, because I had to lead him and I did it. You know, it's so funny. There's these natural things inside of us that we respond to. But then when somebody wants to write it on a piece of paper and say, this is a man's, we pushed back against them. A lot of women, some may, I want to call the shots and I want to lead and everything like that. But a lot of women are like, I'm doing it because I have to, not because I want to.

• 1:02:20Lewis Howes?

  Let me push back on this then.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:22Lewis Howes?

  For the men that say, I've tried to lead, but she just keeps taking over control. She won't listen. She keeps pushing back on me. She won't either submit, surrender, you know, relax in my leadership, whatever you want to call the word.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Lewis Howes?

  And so I've just stopped because it's exhausting because I'm leading, but then she's pushing back constantly and pushing against my vision. So I just let her do what she wants to do and be in control.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  The Bible says wives are to submit to their husband, not be submissive. There's a difference. And some women are like, I am pushing back and asking all these questions because I want to fully understand. And when I fully understand, I'm going to give my all. All to it.

• 1:03:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  And if I can be honest.

• 1:03:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Sometimes our insecurity doesn't like to be questioned.

• 1:03:15Lewis Howes?

  I can. That's true.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:03:17Lewis Howes?

  I don't like that. You know, when I'm like, this is my vision and when you question me, it doesn't feel good.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Let, let's switch this to the business realm. If you are a CEO, entrepreneur, business leader, and, and you've got some thoroughbreds around you. They are going to question your vision.

• 1:03:32Lewis Howes?

  And you want them to poke holes in the plan.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  Because they're watching your back.

• 1:03:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  But if you're insecure, you're going to see it as rebellion, as attack, as they're trying to divide the company or whatever. And you will find an insecure leader will not have great leaders around them.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  Because they won't give them space to think for themselves. Bring it back into your marriage. Sometimes it, we're all, we all have ego. Anybody who says they don't have ego, they're lying. As I've, I've felt this of telling my wife, hey babe, we're going here. And she's like, well, what about this? Don't question me. You know, it's just like, and then I had to realize, dude, she's questioning you because it was a half baked idea. And you had holes that you didn't even see. And I can't see every question as threatening, you know, my masculinity or whatever it may be. So A, some of those, you know, that woman, you know, she, she won't follow me. No, she's just asking so she can be fully bought in.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  And then some women, um, something in their past has taught them, I can't trust anybody else but myself. And they're responding through fear instead of through what your track record has proven that you can be trusted with.

• 1:04:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  So that's why dating the right person.

• 1:04:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  And making the right decision before you say I do. And not sleeping with them so that your judgment is not off. It's so major because once you've said, I do, doesn't mean you can't undo it. But the amount of collateral damage.

• 1:05:10Lewis Howes?

  That's a lot.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:05:12Lewis Howes?

  It's a lot.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:05:14Lewis Howes?

  So pick the right person.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Lewis Howes?

  Pick the right person for you.

• 1:05:19Speaker 01

  The Bible says, he who finds a good wife finds favor from the Lord. A lot of people think it says, he who finds a wife finds favor. No, no. There's thousands of wives out here. Not a lot of good ones.

• 1:05:34Lewis Howes?

  And not a lot of good ones for you.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  For you.

• 1:05:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  So it takes a lot of time and intentionality to find who you want to trust with your future. And it's the same thing, you know, especially when it comes to the biblical world, there's all this pushback of, you know, why do I gotta submit to a husband? Why, women hate that verse.

• 1:05:52Lewis Howes?

  And I like that word, right?

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  It is, I'm not gonna say easy, because nothing in life is easy. But it's not as difficult to submit to a husband that you love where he's going. And you like the vision, and you want to be a part of that vision. And wives realize, you get to pick what vision you submit to. So pick well. Just because he's ripped and got muscles, and he's six feet tall, and got a six-figure income, or whatever the sixes you're looking for are, does not mean that that's the only thing to pick from. In this thing called life, we live based on the decisions that we make.

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  And they're major decisions.

• 1:06:36Lewis Howes?

  So what is the role of a woman in a marriage, then?

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  So when you think about marriage, I would divide it out into different spaces. There's family, there's finances, there are extended in-laws, there's career, all that other good stuff. And I think one role of a woman is to be the nurturer in the home, not the only one. Us men, we have to be nurturing. And it does not mean that women have to stay home with the kids, or they shouldn't. That is every family-specific decision. And anybody says everybody should do that is just naive. However, God has given women a sensitivity, a connection to their emotions

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  that's a lot more challenging for men, that is easier for them to create that nurturing type of environment. Whether you have no kids, or whatever it may be. And as a woman creates that, it's a lot easier for a man. To step into that. Make sense? A hundred percent. So that's one. Two, it, I heard a pastor say, when you think of the word submission, just think of the broken out, support the mission. So it is the wife's job to support the mission, which in one season of the marriage may mean I'm out here working, making more money than my husband.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Because that supports the mission of our family for this season. It may mean the exact opposite. It may mean that I step away from my career and I'm home with the children for a season because it supports the mission, not that he has, but that we've set for our family. So you can't say women should stay home with the kids, or women should be out here working, or whatever it may be. It's what is the mission that we've mutually agreed upon is the mission for our family? And how do I support that in this season? I love that. I, I say, um,

• 1:08:45Speaker 01

  this is kind of using a biblical term, but the word prophecy or prophetic. I think one of a woman's role in a marriage is to be the prophetic voice, which prophecy, the word really means to encourage, to put courage in. And one of the roles of a woman is to say, we got, we can do this. We, we can accomplish this. Now, we, and us guys, sometimes we are so in our head and we are our worst critics. And I mean, it's a minor mistake and in our head, it is the biggest thing ever. And when you've got that right woman in your corner, I said, no, you're, you're overthinking it. Then no, the goal can still be accomplished.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  No, we still, it breathes life into the family. And it brings you to goals that you would have given up on if you were by yourself. Wow.

• 1:09:43Lewis Howes?

  What do you think people struggle with hearing the most about their roles getting into a marriage? Both men and women?

• 1:09:49Speaker 01

  I think one of the things that both men and women struggle with just in marriage in particular is I'm gonna lose my identity. I think women struggle with this more. But I'm gonna be overshadowed. There are gonna be things that I want to accomplish that I'm not gonna be able to accomplish because we're, you know, serving my spouse's vision in this season or whatever. Life is all about giving up something you want for something you want more. What do I want? I want to be on vacation 12 months a year. That's what I want. What do you want more? I want to build a legacy. I want to build greatness. I want to build an impact.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  So yes, I'm gonna give up Cancun for 12 months out of the year. But what I get in return is greater than what I gave up. Forget marriage. There is no relationship that you don't have to compromise and give up part of your dream. What makes it worth it? What I get back is greater than anything that I've given up. So guys or girls, when you get married, you're gonna have to slow down a little bit. Because when you were single, you made a decision and you acted on it. You had nobody to check in with. And slowing down for drivers is frustrating sometimes because it's just like, I've already thought it through, I've already made a decision. Let's go.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  But slowing down and making that decision with someone who has massive talent and gifting and ability is gonna make the results of that decision far greater than they would have been if I was by myself. So yes, I gave up the speed at which I love to go through life in. But the reward is, it's worth it. So that fear of I'm gonna lose part of myself and I'm not gonna relieve that fear. You will lose part of yourself in that marriage. But you lost part of yourself when you launched that business.

• 1:11:47Lewis Howes?

  That's true.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  You lost part of yourself when you had those kids. And that's life. You're developing. And it's worth it when you see the goal on the other side.

• 1:11:56Lewis Howes?

  I've got a couple of final questions for you, but this is a powerful book called Relationship Roadmap, step-by-step directions to finding your spouse. And again, most people are struggling and challenged with relationships in their life, and this is going to give you the tools on how to set you up with more success. So make sure you guys get a copy or two. Give it to a friend who might be struggling in their relationship as well. As someone who's been married 12, almost 13 years now, but also been around a lot of individuals who've been married for a long time. You have great married mentors, and I'm assuming you've counseled many people in their marriages as well. As I get into my married, newly married season of life, what would be three pieces of advice you'd give me

• 1:12:39Lewis Howes?

  that either you followed when you were getting married, or you wish you would have followed as well?

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, congrats. Come on, it's been a fun journey. And I'm gonna kind of turn it heavy for a second, but it's okay, it's gonna resonate with a lot of people. My mom ended up passing away in 2013. And I got engaged the first week of February. She passed away the last week of February. So she passed away three weeks after we got married. She was 54. And, you know, when someone's coming to the end of their life, life comes in perspective. And the things that matter, matter. And the things that you thought mattered, you realize at this point. And so the greatest piece of advice I got was from my mom. And she said, "Steven, if I had known I was only going to spend 34 years with your dad,

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  some of the things that I was dogmatic about, I now realize they don't matter." So in marriage, pick which heels you're gonna die on. And I'll even say this, three or less. Don't have a lot of them. Like, I will not compromise on this. And then other things, we can talk, we can disagree, but don't make it, you know, World War III. You know, some of the dumb stuff we get in a relationship. Ah, you know, my husband bought a red car and I hate red cars. Why do you, you know, but at the end of the day, nobody cares. You know, you drive the car for five years, you get a blue one next. It doesn't matter. But, you know, in that moment, it seems like the biggest deal in the world. Or, I don't like the house.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Uh, this is gonna get me in trouble. My wife did not like the house that we bought after, uh, we got married. And, yeah, I'm a little bit of a bulldozer. So, you know, I asked her and I got her permission. But looking back, I probably kinda, you know, pushed her into something that, and we ended up living there for two and a half years. We thought it was gonna be our forever home.

• 1:14:36Lewis Howes?

  Nah, and you're out.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Work changed and we ended up, and she said later, man, that taught me something. That even when I disagreed with your decision, it wasn't a lifetime decision. And it wasn't worth the emotional. So you, the less wars you have in a marriage, the better.

• 1:14:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  And when you look back, you're gonna find out that wasn't worth, it wasn't worth it.

• 1:15:01Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't worth fighting or arguing about, yeah. Okay, so that's, that's your first piece of advice?

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:06Lewis Howes?

  You got two more?

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  I got two more. Uh, make great memories. Make great memories. One mentor told me, um, accomplish great things in life. The one thing I regret is I did not enjoy the journey. And he said, now that I'm coming to the end of it, I wish I had stopped to celebrate more along the way.

• 1:15:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Speaker 01

  So I think that, that would be number two. And then I, I think the third one is, is what a lot of people don't think about. Uh, marriage, family, whatever, make it more than just about y'all. You, you, you used the word purpose. I think there are individual purposes, but there's also a purpose to a union into a marriage. And I believe God brings people together. But why did he do it? It wasn't just for our joy. It wasn't just for our legacy. So what is the impact we can have as a couple? What is the, um, blessing we can have to people?

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Some of the greatest joy you're gonna get in life is from blessing people who cannot bless you back. And I think in a marriage, if you would just take a time to say, hey, who can we have an impact on? That we want nothing in return from them. At the end of your life, some of your greatest joy is gonna be the people that we impacted. And we'll find out just the joy it brought us. We received far more than we ever gave.

• 1:16:36Lewis Howes?

  I'm getting the chills the whole time we're talking about this because that's another thing, now that I'm thinking about it, where I realized that Martha was the one. Early in the relationship,

• 1:16:49Lewis Howes?

  just service is a big part of my life.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:52Lewis Howes?

  Being of service, however that might look. It might be donating to a cause I really care about, or just impacting the person that I come up to me on the street that says hello. And being of service in that moment in a small way or a big way. But thinking about service as part of my mission to life.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:09Lewis Howes?

  And when I realized that she wanted to make a big difference as well in the world, and that she cared about, you know, how could we as a couple also do something to serve people? That either give us something in return or don't. Like, just how can we give and make a difference? And having a partner on my team that wants that same mission, that's when I realized, oh, I'm not gonna be the only one thinking about service in a relationship. Because that's tiring as well, it's just you. But two people coming together, finding a purpose to serve, either your friends, your family, your community, or whatever you can, is a beautiful thing.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  Let me brag on my wife, Zai, for a second. When I tell you this woman has expanded my universe, it will happen to everyone. I don't think God puts the total skill set in one individual. So all of us, whether it's people's skills, whether it's dry, all of us are deficient in some area. And when you marry someone who their strengths are your deficiency. I'm, I'm an introvert. I love one-on-one relationships. Crowds freak me out. I'm just like.

• 1:18:20Lewis Howes?

  Just being on stage every week.

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  Which is wild because you wouldn't think that at all, but I tell the church, this stage is my little box. This is my world. My wife is, I mean, crowds, life of the party.

• 1:18:32Lewis Howes?

  People, let's hang out, hug, yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  And she has introduced me to spaces and worlds that Stephen by himself would have never ventured into. Now, vice versa, because I pastor and all that kind of stuff, I see crowds. I know how to move crowds. My wife sees individuals. So I'm thinking about the crowd and my wife's like, hey, don't forget about this person. Hey, go text this person. I'll call this person or whatever. And now I'm able to care for people on a level that is outside of my skill set or temperament because of the helpmate biblical word that God has given me and vice versa. I've been able to put my wife in front of crowds when she sees individuals.

• 1:19:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  It multiplies your effectiveness.

• 1:19:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man, that's beautiful. Um, relationship roadmap is what we're talking about today. Couple of final questions for you, but people can follow you. Where's the best place to follow you on social media to, to see your content and get the book?

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Stephen R. Chandler, everything.

• 1:19:32Lewis Howes?

  Stephen R. Chandler.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Everything, IG and all that. And it's with a P H and it's still Stephen.

• 1:19:37Lewis Howes?

  Stephen with a P H.

• 1:19:41Lewis Howes?

  This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. Imagine a hypothetical scenario. You live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth. So you're as old as you want to be, but you've got to turn the lights off.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:53Lewis Howes?

  Go to the next place. And you've accomplished everything you want in this journey. Your roadmap is complete. You got to the destination, faithful servant. And you're reflecting back on all the memories that you made.

• 1:20:09Lewis Howes?

  For whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you can't leave anything behind that you've created. This conversation, this book, everything you've shared before is gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons that you've learned. Three truths. What would those three truths be for you?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Man, that got emotional. That's major. And it was, it was really easy.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  The first one is, I was placed on this earth by God on purpose, for a purpose. And I live my life to fulfill that purpose. I'm not a mistake. It wasn't happen chance. It was intentional by my creator. My second thought is this, that the people who know me the best respect me the most. I think it is easy for crowds to revere you because they don't really know you. It is the people who know you the most that I want to respect me the best.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  And then I think the final thing is, I did not let pain

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  or inconvenience keep me from maximizing my greatness. Everybody in life has adversity that you've got to push through. And every time you push through, it's always worth it. But it is so tempting not to push through.

• 1:21:42Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful, beautiful truths, man. I want to acknowledge you, Stephen, for, this is the first time we've met, but I've heard about you from mutual friends. I've seen your content. I want to acknowledge you for

• 1:21:54Lewis Howes?

  your authenticity, because I think a lot of people struggle talking about some of these things, fully authentically owning what they believe, because they're afraid of, you know, like you said, getting in trouble. But, you know, it's beautiful to see that you've been living your life on purpose to values you believe in that have been serving you and communities and multiplying the fruit of that value within your relationships, your marriage, your family, your communities, because you live by them.

• 1:22:26Lewis Howes?

  And they may not be for everyone, but they're for you. And I acknowledge you for that authenticity and for sharing your truth here, man. I appreciate it.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  I'm grateful for you. The work you're doing is amazing.

• 1:22:36Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, brother. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Oh, that's one I had to work out. Greatness is maximizing the potential and resources that you have. So I've got to say this, it is not competition with somebody else. Because we all have different resources. We have different opportunities. You are in a race against yourself and nobody else.

• 1:23:02Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Stephen, my man. Thanks for being here, brother. I'm grateful. Powerful, man. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

• 1:23:44Lewis Howes?

  And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.