LeBron James' Agent, Rich Paul on What It Takes To Stay On Top

Today we'll delve into the mind of the man who's helped keep one of the biggest names in the NBA at the top of his game for years. What does it take to consistently outperform the competition? LeBron James' Agent, Rich Paul, is here to share his insights on what it takes to stay on top. Rich Paul is the CEO and founder of KLUTCH Sports Group, the powerhouse agency representing some of the biggest athletes across major professional sports. Paul founded KLUTCH Sports in 2012 in his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, where he forged a unique and personal approach to representing top NBA talent – putting athletes first and empowering them to build careers and brands on and off the court. Buy his new book Lucky Me: A Memoir of Changing the OddsIn this episode you will learn,How vulnerability is a crucial aspect of human connection, even if it's challenging due to societal expectations and norms. The power of understanding and connecting with people on a deep emotional level by observing their body language and emotions. Why effective communication can be especially difficult for young black men who may feel pressured to conform to certain stereotypes. The importance of evolving and adapting to different roles and situations throughout your life. That true success and greatness are achieved through consistent and disciplined habits, regardless of your background or circumstances. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1513For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960Want more inspiration? Listen to these powerful episodes:Tony Robbins - https://link.chtbl.com/1107-podDaymond John - https://link.chtbl.com/598-podSara Blakely - https://link.chtbl.com/893-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times Bestseller back-to-back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it, and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life. 10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life,

• 0:45Lewis Howes?

  and a book I'm glad I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get your copy today. Again, lewishouse.com/2023mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now, so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  In my environment, we weren't allowed to be vulnerable because I have to be mancho. I have to be tough. I can't be vulnerable, right? And then, when you talk about the pitfalls of the streets, you definitely can't be vulnerable because...

• 1:27Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back, everyone, at School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Rich Paul in the house. My man, so great to see you.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Great to see you as well, my fellow Ohioan. Thanks for having me.

• 2:01Lewis Howes?

  I love this. I just want to do a quick little bio about you for people that don't know who you are. But Rich Paul, you... You started Clutch Sports Group, one of the most influential sports representation companies in the world. Represent some of the biggest pro athletes and you've done billions in negotiated deals. Uh, obviously you work with LeBron James. You are UTA's Head of Sports, from what I read. You were also on the cover of Sports Illustrated. They called you the Kingmaker. GQ called you the Power Broker of the Year and Time called your company 100 of the most influential companies. And it's amazing to watch your journey from behind the scenes as a fellow Ohioan,

• 2:43Lewis Howes?

  watching these things over the last 10 plus years when I started to be aware of you. And I'm really grateful for how I've heard about your reputation. This is our first time meeting, but the way I've heard about you, the things I've seen about you and how you respect people. And how you do business differently in the sports world, which is not about, I've heard you say this multiple times. It's not about the money. It's about the meaning behind the relationships. It's about the connections you create with people. And valuing relationships first. And I really respect and appreciate that about you. And you know, the story, uh, the, the mythology goes, LeBron James wrote the foreword to your book that you guys met in an airport.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:27Lewis Howes?

  And he talked about, if I'm paraphrasing what he mentioned in your book. But he talked about how you gave him and you give people things that most people in your community don't do, which is giving people vulnerability, the ability to be vulnerable. And that's something I talk a lot about on the School of Greatness. And I think it's really the essence of connection, allowing for space for vulnerability. And I'm curious, how did you learn about vulnerability early on? Or did you not, were you not a vulnerable child? Uh, where did you learn that lesson and have you always kept it consistent?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  You hit it right on the head. I think in my environment, we weren't allowed to be vulnerable. Right? And so I had to learn.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  That through emotion, right? And so it's kind of like wavelengths of the of humans, right? I can stand next to you and I can feel that that wavelength. And I can feel that emotion through that wavelength. And I can look in your eyes and understand that you and I have, we share some of the same issues. We share some of the same interests. We share and and oftentimes, young, especially men, all men. And then when you break it down to young men in the black community, communication is one of the hardest things there is to do, right?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Because I have to be macho. I have to be tough. I can't be vulnerable, right? And then when you talk about the pitfalls of the streets, you definitely can't be vulnerable because the mindset has to forget, but not really ever forgive. It's a difference. People, most people say forgive and forget. But when you're in the streets, it's a different mentality. You have to forget in terms of not in his existence, but for that moment to get through. But you don't never really forgive, right?

• 5:51Speaker 01

  And so when I started to, you know, interact with people and be around people just in my community, I started to see a consistent behavior across the board of belittling people, you know, just being mean to someone just because that's what made people laugh, right? Being cool or funny, yeah. That's just, so you thought that, right? And what it was, I started to realize is these people are deflecting pain.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Right, they're deflecting that pain. Their body's a mirror. And when they look at themselves, they're looking in the mirror of themselves. All they see and all they feel is pain. And so their behavior causes them to deflect that. That's not who they really are. But they also don't know who they really are. And the person that they think they are, they're not happy with that person. But there's no therapist to talk to. There's no parental

• 7:00Speaker 01

  structure in place that I can, you know, bounce things off the wall with.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  And so my mom was struggling with her addiction. And I decided to take a different approach at a very young age. And over time, that consistent behavior

• 7:22Speaker 01

  allowed people to gravitate towards me, right? What was that change that you had early on then? I think the change was

• 7:33Speaker 01

  in conversation or in that playful,

• 7:37Speaker 01

  we called it ranking in St. Louis, they called it joining. In other places, they call it different places, playing the dozens back in the day, the older things. It got to a level to where people would start to say a hurtful thing or what they thought was hurtful to you. And it was hurtful in some aspects, but I processed it different. And so at a very young age, when you read inside the book, Lucky Me, I talk about, I had to bottle this up. And then I had to decide, okay, how am I going to react? And if more people in the world did this, there would be less people dead, there would be less people in jail, there would be less, you know, it's just,

• 8:19Speaker 01

  and so as a young man, I'm sitting there, I'm laying on the floor, I'm saying, okay, the next time this person says this, I'm going to have to do one of two things. Either I'm going to have to fight, or one of three things, fight, walk away, or figure out a way to where

• 8:40Speaker 01

  I don't exude violence.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  But I'm killing them with kindness. And then ultimately. Having the ability to to befriend that person because I understand. And help them understand that you and I are one in the same.

• 8:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Right. And so that's what I did that, you know, when the guy said to me, that's why your mom smokes crack.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  My comment back to him was, yeah, but who looks as if their mom smoked crack, me or you? And so that caused the crowd to now have a different response.

• 9:15Lewis Howes?

  The zing, yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Right?

• 9:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  There's no fighting words. There's no, you know, no physicality. It's just a simple thing. But then that caused me to also. You know, because everyone has observer pair observers paradox. Social media today. Is observers paradox at its highest form, right? Kids are reacting based upon a social media response and feels as if. I have to kill this person now because they embarrassed me and everybody's seen it. But if me and you get into altercation. And we're the only one that know about the altercation. You have your story. I have mine. No one else seen seen it. It's only based upon the the crowd of people around.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  To where you and there's been so many instances like that. Growing up in this inside this book of lucky me. That I had to navigate through to get to the point that I am today. So this was a learned behavior.

• 10:15Lewis Howes?

  I mean, emotional intelligence, I feel like is one of the most powerful things that any leader or entrepreneur or agent could have to truly be successful for the long term. You've seen, I've seen a lot of people, you know, make money or build a business or become successful in something, but. Fall quickly without emotional intelligence. What do you feel like is the biggest skill you've learned in the last decade? Plus, it's 11 years of Clutch Sports Group now. I think it's 11. In the last decade, what have you the biggest skill you've learned? To take your leadership skills to the next level, to take your connection to the next level, to take. That's allowed your business to grow so much.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  I think it starts with not sitting your success. Can't sit there. I think the next thing I would say would be.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Be a willing listener.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Because it's important to listen to the people that's helping you get there. Also, third would be know what you don't know. One of the first things I did was I went and I got a guy who was very helpful to me named Mark Termini. And Mark Termini was an agent prior to, never had the success that I had as an agent, but also focused on something very specific. And the one thing I knew that people would say about me was that I lacked, I lacked a negotiation experience.

• 11:47Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Right. And because they would just need something to say. And so that was one of the first things I did. And, and then I would say, so know what you don't know. And then, and then the fourth thing I would say is be willing to invest in others.

• 12:07Lewis Howes?

  What does that, what does that look like for you?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I have people that's in my company that came off the street, pretty much. You know, there wasn't, they didn't, they didn't need a resume prior to. I believe in our platform, I believe in our infrastructure, I believe in our brand, I believe in our culture. So, anyone coming in, the first thing you need to be willing to be is a teammate. A good teammate. You can start there. Everything else, you can be developed, just like a basketball player, just like a football player. You know, if you're a receiver, understanding how to run routes. If you're a basketball player, understanding what you need to work on, coming off a pick and roll,

• 12:53Speaker 01

  coming off a screen, reading the pick and roll, throwing a, you know, the pocket pass or seeing the man in the corner. Those different reads, it's the same thing in our business. But if you fall in love with the headlines, if you fall in love with, well, what's in it for me? And this is what most athletes do, and then most people around the athlete. They're not helping them make the best decisions because it's on the basis of what's in it for them. So now in the sports business, you get this. This pyramid of entitlement or this infrastructure of entitlement around the athlete and it stunts their growth.

• 13:31Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious about this because I want to make sure I get the story right. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you met LeBron early on at an airport.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:38Lewis Howes?

  Uh, in Akron and then, but you didn't start your agency until.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  Twenty twelve.

• 13:46Lewis Howes?

  Uh, you know, was that a decade later or twelve years later or something?

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Ten years later.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  Ten years later, right?

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:51Lewis Howes?

  So, you became friends with LeBron ten years before you launched your business. But you decide not to launch a business sooner than that. You, you wait a decade, even though you're potentially could have launched something with him or around him or in connection to him sooner. If I'm, if I'm, correct me if I'm wrong.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Probably not.

• 14:12Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  I think if I would have tried to do that then, it would, it would have failed.

• 14:17Lewis Howes?

  Gotcha.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  And I think that's what people have to understand. I wasn't, I wasn't able to feel that entitlement because I was next to him. Nor did I want to, right? You have to allow things to evolve.

• 14:32Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  And people count the years, but don't count the years. You have to count the minutes within the hour, the hour, within the day, the day, within the week, and the weeks, within the months, and then the months within the year, and then the years. You get what I'm saying?

• 14:49Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And so, for me, I was already somebody when we met.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  I was what people would deem to be the LeBron of my neighborhood.

• 15:04Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Already.

• 15:06Lewis Howes?

  Why is that?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  You know, because I was the, I was, I was the chosen one. No pun intended, you know? Um, and through all my journeys, you know, all my, my ups and downs, the roller coaster of life, everything I did, the good, bad, and the ugly, I did it best in class.

• 15:24Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Right? And so.

• 15:26Lewis Howes?

  So, you were the go-to guy in your neighborhood?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure. Um, and everyone knew that, right? It was like a secret thing, but everyone knew that. But I was also the, for, when I say the go-to guy, not just for bad things. I'm talking about for like.

• 15:40Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  I help kids with their homework if I see them doing math.

• 15:44Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  You know, just, my friend has a child early and don't really know how to handle it. So, we talk about it, right? Um. I was the young man coming home from school and I'm seeing my brother, his older sibling, I mean, his older friends and, you know, his friends are doing something and I'm talking to, me and my brothers, my brother and I just had this conversation the other day. And my brother is somebody that I really respect wholeheartedly and I appreciate him because he sacrificed a lot for me, a whole lot, and was willing to loot and was willing to do anything to make sure that I was successful. Wow. Right? And so, when you, that's why the title was Lucky Me.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  There's so many different components to the luck. The average person in America would think, oh, of course you're lucky. You met LeBron and you went on to do this and you wouldn't be able to get in these rooms if it wasn't for LeBron, blah, blah, blah. And they're partly correct as it pertains to, yes, I did meet LeBron prior to him becoming LeBron.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  But I also had the ability to understand my position and my role at that time. Roles change. There's a chapter in the book. There's a rule in the book that's, it's called star in your role. Star in your role. Yeah, there's a rule in the book, right? And when you think about the evolution of a person and you think about the evolution of positioning.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Allow yourself to be a part of that evolution by managing the transitions within. Like you said, when we first started, LeBron didn't need, what does he need? He's a rookie. Right. His exact words to me when I was hired is, I have nothing for you to do. Right, I already got my contract. I don't have a title, I don't have anything for you to do. And at that time, I didn't want to, I wasn't looking to be an agent. You weren't? No, not at that time. So you're what, twenty-two, twenty? Twenty-two, twenty-two, yeah. At that time, you know, I'm looking to make it out of the ghetto. I'm looking to be on the side of the mountain that there are no sirens.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  There are no deaths at young ages. There are no, every time I get in my car, I have to look in my rearview mirror to see if it's the police, if it's the jackers and robbers, whoever it may be, if it's a rival, whatever the case may be. People don't understand how much pressure you grow up under in the, in the black community. And I, and I say in black community predominantly, but today it's in these minority poverty stricken communities. There was no such thing as

• 18:46Speaker 01

  planning ahead.

• 18:48Lewis Howes?

  Survival mode.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and people, and I, I, I think sometimes people get it misconstrued because it's like, well, you have a choice. Well,

• 18:59Speaker 01

  we're, this is the, this is the, this is the school of greatness, right?

• 19:06Speaker 01

  But you take this young kid growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, who has the same capabilities of any student at the Stanford Business School, at the Harvard Business School. Now, I said capabilities,

• 19:26Speaker 01

  but the opportunities aren't there.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  And that's the difference. My brain works just as good as anybody's in the world.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  But

• 19:39Speaker 01

  if I'm sitting in sanitation,

• 19:43Speaker 01

  then how do you expect me to evolve? Because I'm dealing with two things. I'm dealing with the lack thereof opportunity

• 19:53Speaker 01

  and the lack thereof discovery to even obtain an opportunity.

• 19:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:57Speaker 01

  So this is some deep stuff, if you want to get into it. And so when you read the book, these are all the things that I'm going to explain to you. Despite all of this, I've been able to land across from Lewis, right? And we're having this conversation.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  But when we, when, when, when LeBron was first drafted, I'm a part of the crew.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Right? At that moment,

• 20:34Speaker 01

  I could be totally satisfied. I get to hang, we're going here, we're going there. It's this, it's that, it's bright lights, things is popping, so on and so forth. But you gotta remember, that's not who I am.

• 20:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  And you'll see from the first chapter,

• 20:52Speaker 01

  I'm a natural born hustler.

• 20:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. You weren't just trying to latch on or just hang out and just get the-

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Latch nowhere.

• 20:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you were trying to, you were the chosen one in your own right.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  I'm trying to live. I'm trying to survive. Like you said, you sold your company. You had enough money to last you a couple of years. Well, I also had enough money to last me a couple of years. And then some.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Based upon my lifestyle at that moment. The thing I was able to give him was, like he said, we would have these conversations. And through my dialogue, he understood that I understood him. And there was no judgment.

• 21:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Yeah, at the time, I mean, growing up in Ohio, you know, LeBron was well-known in Ohio, I think at fourteen or fifteen at that point.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 21:49Lewis Howes?

  But then it was like sixteen, it was like, oh, national, it was like, okay. Now he's starting, who's this high school kid or people to show up to this game? Now, oh, it's on TV?

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:58Lewis Howes?

  So I remember growing up being like, oh, LeBron, because it was Maurice Claret, you know?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Well, that-

• 22:02Lewis Howes?

  And then LeBron, right?

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Well, if you really think about it, and if you talk to Maurice Claret- I used to talk to Maurice Corret when he was incarcerated.

• 22:12Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  I would send Maurice Corret money to his girl that he had called me when he was incarcerated. Maurice Corret was a great guy. I went down to Maurice Corret's mom's house. She had a townhouse down in Columbus. When that happened to Reese, it was just upsetting. But you gotta remember, think about the pressure. He is trying to align himself with LeBron because LeBron can go right out of high school. Why can't I do? Why do I have to play here for? You understand what I'm saying? And in a lot of ways, he was not wrong. In a lot of ways, he was not wrong. But at the same time, here's where that understanding. And with no social media back then.

• 22:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  It was very little player empowerment.

• 23:01Lewis Howes?

  No NIL back then.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  No NIL back then.

• 23:04Lewis Howes?

  Everyone's monetizing off of him, except for him.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so now you have this frustrated young man. And rightfully so. Now, we understand why the limit is what it is. I actually think it should be a year less. But we understand it because of the physicality of the game and things like that. But that's not the only reason. Now there's NIL so you can, you know, you.

• 23:31Lewis Howes?

  To develop more, make money, I think, college a little more.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but we have to fix that too.

• 23:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Cause NIL is broken, right? It's, it's, it's, it's fixed on the front end, but it's broken on the back end.

• 23:42Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  And so, um.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  But it was only LeBron and Maurice. I mean, they were both from Ohio.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  I mean, it was, it was unbelievable. It was an unbelievable time in sports.

• 23:50Lewis Howes?

  It was unreal. I remember being so proud of being from Ohio.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  It was unbelievable time in sports.

• 23:55Lewis Howes?

  Big Ohio State fan and just like, this is amazing.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Huge Ohio State fan.

• 23:58Lewis Howes?

  Huge, man. It's like, I was at the Michigan Ohio State game last year. It was so sad to watch them lose. But, um, but seeing Maurice and then LeBron like take over the country was so inspiring to watch. And I can only imagine.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Imagine if they had social media.

• 24:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh. But I can only imagine the pressure both those guys had.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  A ton of pressure.

• 24:17Lewis Howes?

  At sixteen, seventeen, nineteen.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  A ton of pressure.

• 24:20Lewis Howes?

  And, um. Trying to break all these rules and I mean in a good way, breaking the different rules of of sports and business and all these things, trying to do new things, trying to put, build their brands in certain ways, but just the pressure of everyone wanting something from them and everyone trying to put them in a box at the same time, all these different things. But you were able to be there for LeBron, and it sounds like Maurice, I didn't know this, as well, in ways that others weren't. You were able to give, you know, console, you're able to be vulnerable with them, is what it sounds like to me.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and again, I think that when you look at the dynamic, we all were pretty mild mannered, right? We were all raised a certain way, whether, it didn't matter what we didn't have. We were raised a certain way, so that foundation as a human being and its character mattered.

• 25:21Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  So when the push, when, when we started to push forward, I think the one thing that he knew was, I don't have anybody around me that's gonna make a decision for them. I mean, seen it, very clear. And the one thing that I knew was, this isn't my brother. This isn't my, you know, it's just like when I was in my neighborhood, you get, you know, whether you're in the streets, doing what you do, whether you're running with people that, you know, that can cost you your life or freedom, etc. You get one time. And for me, it was the same thing, like, I had zero entitlement.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And so, I also had zero ego, because I know who I am. And I know my capabilities are. So I don't mind doing the, the, the, the...

• 26:18Lewis Howes?

  The grunt work.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  What people would think would be the grunt work. It's not really grunt work, though. It's what shapes you and molds you. I worked in my dad's store. From 6 a.m., starting at 6 a.m. My dad never took a holiday. There was no such thing as Thanksgiving and Christmas and the stores closed and.

• 26:37Lewis Howes?

  You gotta make money.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  We're open 24/7, 365. Rain, sleet, hell or snow. Schools out, we're open, you know, it's a blizzard, we're open, you know, it's like all those things. And so watching, I had the best example in front of me. Hence why I'm so lucky. I learned math and marketing from cash register and products within the store and how people bought it. I learned customer service, dealing with people. I'm dealing with all types of people. Older men and women, younger men and women, drunks, you know, drug addicts to, you know, people who work in jobs, teachers, mechanics, everything.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  And so I had this world around me and I'm this young kid that my dad has thrown into the fire with an expectation of you know what to do and what not to do. And that's how we live.

• 27:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  And so it wasn't, I didn't grow up in a, in a world where my dad had to say something more than once.

• 27:46Lewis Howes?

  You heard it, you did it.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  You heard it, you did it.

• 27:49Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  Being back here at such time, there was no iPhone.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  There was no FaceTime.

• 27:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, but you're on top, yeah, you're there. But the thing is, you know, I would think that most 21, 22 year olds today, if they met some up and coming influencer on social media or some superstar or whatever, and they became friends with them, I would think that most of them would be thinking, how do I get the most from this person? Maybe I'm wrong, maybe people aren't thinking that way, but I would think, okay, I'm in the friend group, I'm in a circle, I'm, I'm getting, building relationship. What can I do to, to build with this person and monetize or financially grow as well? But it sounds like you just said, I just want to be here as a friend and contribute and add value.

• 28:38Lewis Howes?

  I got my own thing and I'm not trying to monetize anything right now. That wasn't something that was on your mind.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Well, the thing was is my own thing came on the back of debt or in jail. So that, I don't even want that. But what I have is, what's the opportunity cost of me not staying in the fray? And, you know, we're boys, we're friends, we're enjoying it, you know? Sometimes people just need support. Yes. Without you gouging to try to get something all the time, right? Sometimes it's okay for the athlete to be able to

• 29:24Speaker 01

  just do for themselves and not have to do for everybody else and not feel entitled to have to support everybody else. See, there's only in the black community where that, I'm not gonna say only, majority of this transpires, transpires within the black community because if one person make it, then nobody else is really doing anything. Right. And so now, your mentality becomes what? Oh, I'm good, I'm good. Well, no, no, no. He's good. Right.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  We have the ability to be okay, given that we

• 30:06Speaker 01

  value him to the point to where we're not gonna do anything detrimental to his career. Right. And while doing so, hopefully we make relationships that allows us to then detach ourselves from this person. And no, I'm not gonna get rich, but what I am gonna do is get in position. And if I can get in position and I value that position, then I can manage the transition. Wow. And if I manage that transition and I'm able to evolve, then I can do what? Become repositioned. Interesting.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  And that's how my mind worked. My mind didn't work, let me jump in front and let me show my song and dance, that's not what I'm into. And the only reason why I was able to think that way is because of the silly line that I was raised up on. The average person can't get here and think that way. It just doesn't work like that. Right. And even today, right now, today.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  I talk to young men and women all the time. I talk to young people trying to start companies and next to athletes. And you know what they're saying consistently? The bag, the bag, the bag. It's all about the bag, the bag. Well,

• 31:39Speaker 01

  there's a lot of bags with a hole in the bottom of it. Right? And your guy that you're standing next to is only going to be able to do what they do for the next 10 to 12 years, max. You gotta hope they last that long. Very few is going to get to year 21. You can forget that.

• 32:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And so.

• 32:02Lewis Howes?

  Very few make it past two or three years.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  This is my point. And so what I try to explain to them is, no, you're looking at this all wrong. Don't use your position next to the player

• 32:19Speaker 01

  to gouge and get the most for you. Use your position next to the player to evaluate and understand where you can fit in. And when you get to that, when you get there, then try to continue to add value so that you can stay there.

• 32:38Lewis Howes?

  Man, this is the most important thing I think people need to hear right now. And it's about starring in your role.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Have to star in it.

• 32:45Lewis Howes?

  And your role may evolve over time and whatever.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  It will evolve over time. And it, but if you, but, but if I'm a role player and I jump out and I try to, the coach didn't call the play. You come out the huddle and you doing your thing. That's not what the, the, the coach drew up.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Right? And you have to understand the importance of executing out of a timeout.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  That is what separate great coaches from good coaches, from bad coaches. It's not the full 48 minutes of the game because half the time they're not even coaching.

• 33:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  When you have the top talent.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  But what do you do after a timeout? It's the same way in life. If I see something transpire.

• 33:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  Let me go in, readjust, draw up a different play. And then I come out of that timeout, it's important for me to execute.

• 33:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  That's in a relationship, that's in a personal or business, that's in planning. That's in anything you do in life. But these young people today, between social media and the bag. They're caught in no man's land.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  You know what happened when you caught no man's land? What happened? It's a backdoor cut and layup.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  You know?

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  You get beat.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Get beat.

• 34:09Lewis Howes?

  You get beat.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  When you play the game.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  This is fascinating though, because I mean, I remember watching the, I think it was the documentary or it was a series more than an athlete.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  With you and Maverick, um, you know? And who's one other guy in that, right?

• 34:22Speaker 01

  Randy.

• 34:22Lewis Howes?

  Randy, yes. But it just seems like you guys had a level of wisdom and forward thinking that most don't. In that type of dynamics in relationship, when you have a friend, family member, whoever that you're close to, who is making it? When I think about, you know, Mike Vick and this, you know, his friends kind of taking from him and what happened there. And think about someone like Tyson, who had to learn his lessons from giving money to people that weren't adding value and certain things like that. Most people seems like they're trying to get without adding value or knowing their role.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  But you and Maverick, you guys were like, no, we're just going to be friends and help our friend make it and know our role.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  You know why? Because we also would challenge each other.

• 35:11Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 35:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And that's the thing I think that.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Made it become what it has become today because there was no such thing as us being in a room and happened to be and just shut up. Hmm, that didn't exist. Right? That didn't, I mean. We had challenging times amongst each other for the right reason. We, we inspired and motivated each other for the right reason. We listened to each other for the right reason. And when you think about all these things, I, I remember it plain as day.

• 36:00Speaker 01

  When we first started L R M R, there was a conversation, well, who's gonna lead it?

• 36:06Speaker 01

  There was no certain qualifications from nobody to be able to lead it. But this decision made the most sense. And so that's what we going with. And at that time, the decision was for Maverick to lead it, which is fine. That made the most sense. Great.

• 36:24Lewis Howes?

  Did that, did that hurt your ego or were you trying to push and say, I should lead this?

• 36:27Speaker 01

  No, not at all. Right? Because you don't push, you support.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  So now when it was my time and my, because again, the only one that ever had a real opportunity was, I mean, not a real opportunity, out the gate.

• 36:45Lewis Howes?

  Was LeBron.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  LeBron and then Randy, who was LeBron, you know?

• 36:48Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 36:48Speaker 01

  So Randy had a job to do.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  He had a job.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Twenty-four seven, three sixty-five, right?

• 36:54Lewis Howes?

  And you guys didn't have jobs from LeBron. He was like, you're my boys.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:57Lewis Howes?

  Well, hang, I want you guys to hang out with me.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  But that also didn't feel good for us either.

• 37:02Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're like, we don't want to just hang out and not contribute.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  We wanted to make sure that we came up with things to where LeBron supported. But we didn't necessarily want to be totally dependent.

• 37:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  You understand what I'm saying? And it's a different time now and the problem is, and I used to not say this, but today everyone wants to duplicate that and you can't do it.

• 37:29Lewis Howes?

  What is, tell me why?

• 37:30Speaker 01

  Duplicate. Because number one, timing. Timing is so important. Timing is so important. Number two, the stars have to align.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  They just do. Number three, those people.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  If you come with the entitlement, then you well better come with the capabilities.

• 37:57Lewis Howes?

  Better back it up.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  You have to come with the capabilities. And it has to be a two-way street.

• 38:04Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  The athlete and the supporting cast have to be aligned. That athlete has to be able to become a business. Most athletes aren't businesses.

• 38:19Lewis Howes?

  They're just talent. They're getting a talent fee.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  Right, right. Very few athletes actually become businesses. But to most people around the athlete. What do you mean? That is, he is, he make, he makes a lot of money. Yes, he makes a lot of money. But that doesn't make him a business to where you can make a lot of money. Yes, his contract, his marketing deal is in the LLC. He's a walking corporation. He is. But for that walking corporation to have an infrastructure to where the CEO and the CMO and the CFO and the this and the that can actually make money. That don't exist.

• 39:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and if he gets injured or gets cut or doesn't perform, there's no more money coming in.

• 39:06Speaker 01

  Right, but it just doesn't exist.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And the problem is, everyone thinks that because this person makes a lot of money, that they should be making a lot of money without a business to support.

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  You making a lot of money.

• 39:20Lewis Howes?

  And without contributing or adding value. Just being someone's friend doesn't mean they should pay you.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  No, but again, if they chose to do that, great for the moment, not forever.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Because when you talk about evolution, this person has to evolve too. Today, they can hang out with the boys and play the video game all day and it's all good. What happens when they get a girl? Now you upset. What happens when you get a family? What happens when you get married? You know, these are all things that myself and Maverick were thinking about this.

• 39:52Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  In our apartment that we shared, that we flipped a coin for who got the master bedroom or not.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Right, and, and I had already, I was a homeowner when I did this.

• 40:02Lewis Howes?

  Really? What city was this in?

• 40:03Speaker 01

  Cleveland.

• 40:04Lewis Howes?

  Cleveland, yeah.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  But. It was important to be there and to be present and have these conversations. Because, again, nobody thought we would be in the position that we're in today. Nobody thought that I would be standing here in front of you today. You read off that list. Nobody thought that. Right? The NBA world didn't think it. The Asian world definitely didn't think, that is the NBA world.

• 40:30Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Society didn't think that.

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, who are you? You're just this 22 year old. Yeah.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Right, and, and, and that's why some of the articles that came forth was what they were. But I didn't use that to exude the hate. Those articles is just like the kids saying that your mom smoked crack.

• 40:47Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Okay, great. I'll digest that.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  And we move on. I'll, I'll use that for fuel to keep driving my journey.

• 40:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  You gotta keep driving your journey.

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man, this is fascinating. But I mean, again, for you to know timing and to be living in Cleveland during that time, just to be close. And to be available in a, in a, essentially a supporting role at that time, right?

• 41:17Speaker 01

  A supporting role, but not scared to speak the truth.

• 41:23Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  See.

• 41:25Lewis Howes?

  Did you ever get pushed back?

• 41:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but there was no such thing as being late to something. Or there was no such thing as, oh, we're gonna do this just for the sake of doing it. There was no such thing as, we're gonna close the club down. There was no such thing, like, we had things within our inner circle to where this is what it was, and this is non-negotiable.

• 41:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow, really?

• 41:48Speaker 01

  And we respected each other to know that.

• 41:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you guys really thought about this like a business, even though it wasn't at that time, it sounds like. We gotta show up on time. We gotta make sure we're being responsible.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, and everybody

• 42:04Speaker 01

  followed the lead. When you think about it, when you, when you think about the impact and influence that not just us, that LeBron, but also us, have had, has had on that's the entire ecosystem of sport. You know, there's a

• 42:25Speaker 01

  There's a famous, there's a line in a Jay-Z record called I Did It My Way. It's a Frank Sinatra. Song, yeah. Song, but it was a sample.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  But he says, "We came in this game, you know,

• 42:44Speaker 01

  demanding our respect," you know, like, that's what it was. And people seen that as, our peers seen that as

• 42:56Speaker 01

  who they think they are type of thing. And, you know, it's all the chitter chatter and et cetera. And society seen it as the entourage just gonna fail. Right? And so you hearing all this. But the reality of it was, we just really wanted to support somebody and also be dependent, independent enough to where we maintain a relationship from a place of truth and never put anybody in harm's way. To benefit for yourself. That's fascinating. Because that's what takes down the family. It does. In most cases, right?

• 43:41Speaker 01

  That's fascinating. That's why Michael got so mad at Fredo.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Right? It wasn't, it wasn't that he made the mistake talking to Johnny Ola and Johnny Ola gave the information to, to, to Hyman Roth. It wasn't just that. It was that, that thing you thinking about yourself is gonna take down everything that our father built. And then some goofball. And this is what transpires all the time. So now, today, we was around the athlete. You got the guy next to the athlete. That guy is not looking to do anything but make the best deal for himself. Right. That's, that's not good. No. When I lost a player, we, well, I'm not gonna say I, our company.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  You know, we separated from a player this year, but it wasn't because of anything that we done wrong or anything. It was strictly because there was a guy next to him that wanted to make the best decision for him. Not the player, because it wasn't the best decision for the player. But for him, in disguise of this is what's best for you. Right. And this is gonna be our thing and they're gonna do this for you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they did the same thing they did for them, they're gonna do for you. But they, what they don't know is they haven't really done anything for us. Right? You know, despite being on a client list, but they ain't really done nothing for us.

• 45:15Speaker 01

  And so they able to, they was able to sell that. And quite naturally, you know, when there's not, I mean, there's, I can't sit here and say there was this great relationship because it wasn't, it was kind of inherited, but that's the mentality. Right. Versus that person come and saying, hey, we want, this is how we envision things. We're willing to listen and, and, and hear the truth because coming from somebody who built it and done it. And if there's a shortfall, where do we fall short at? Right? And it's just a conversation to have, but that never works when that person wants to be you. Hmm.

• 46:00Speaker 01

  See, that's a whole nother element that people don't understand that, that, that lies under the belly of the beast, right? People don't understand that. So when you talk about, you know, just business and, and the school of greatness and, and all these different things, you cannot have that without collaboration and without communication, right? You cannot have that without a willingness to check your ego at the door. Whether you the talent or the person entitled to the talent or next to the talent. That's very important. And this whole, you know what we deal with?

• 46:41Speaker 01

  We deal with the, there's a, there's a masters or there's a course called.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Outdoing. I can guarantee you, there's more people taking the course of outdoing than there is of macroeconomics.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Cause they don't wanna understand that part. They just wanna outdo. How do I outdo the next person? How do I outdo him? And you know who's teaching it? Nobody.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  You in class.

• 47:13Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  There's no professor.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  So, in your mind, this is just how you think it's supposed to go.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  And you also don't get no credit for that.

• 47:26Lewis Howes?

  You don't get credit for that, man. When you, so you're around twenty-nine, I think, twenty-nine or thirty when you launched Clutch, I believe.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Twenty-twelve, September, I'm thirty-one.

• 47:37Lewis Howes?

  Thirty-one, okay.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:38Lewis Howes?

  So, what was the biggest lesson in your whole, in the decade of your thirties then? As you're now launching this sports agency?

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:46Lewis Howes?

  And no one really wants you to do it in the industry. They're kind of against you. They're like, oh.

• 47:51Speaker 01

  Not kind of against me. They were really against me.

• 47:54Lewis Howes?

  They're against you. They're creating rules and you can't be, all this stuff.

• 47:57Speaker 01

  Well, that came later.

• 47:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  The rule actually came after I've had a little bit of success.

• 48:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  Previously, and still currently, but previously even more so then, the agency I left from, those people were just putting out all type of nonsense, you know?

• 48:16Lewis Howes?

  So when you had, you know, it's hard to launch a business, even if you have access and opportunities and it's still hard to launch a business.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  But I believed, I believed, super thankful for the guys that believed in me. Tristan Thompson, Corey Joseph, Eric Bledsoe, and LeBron. It's cause those guys, I started the company with first.

• 48:37Lewis Howes?

  Those are your first four athletes?

• 48:39Speaker 01

  Those are my first four athletes. And I made no money. Cause all those contracts were at a previous agency.

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Now, the good thing is, wow. Three of those guys were a rookie deal, so it didn't matter anyway.

• 48:52Lewis Howes?

  Right. And their next deals were coming up, right? Their next deals were coming up in a couple of years.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Their next deals were coming up and they would come to me. And wow, I didn't have it planned. This wasn't a plan of mine.

• 49:02Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 49:02Speaker 01

  No. You know, they, they would say, oh, he had this all planned out to save face for themselves. Of my previous agency that I, that I had left. But I didn't have it planned at all. I had a falling out with somebody.

• 49:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. At the previous place.

• 49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm like, you know what?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  I'm already, I know, like, I'm, I'm being, I'm being an ultimate team player while there because I know what my capabilities are and I'm doing it despite all the BS that's going on. I'm like,

• 49:39Speaker 01

  okay, if that's, if that's how it's gonna be,

• 49:43Speaker 01

  great, I'll leave.

• 49:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so you weren't even thinking about launching your own thing?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  No. There was no thought, but I'm an impulsive guy. Like, there was no, there was no, there was no thought of like, oh, this is all gonna be planned out, I'm gonna do just like this, no. I was actually recruiting, at that time, I was recruiting Kevin Durant to where I was at.

• 50:03Lewis Howes?

  Come to that agency?

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:05Lewis Howes?

  So you were, so you were there thinking, hey, I'm gonna go learn this business, work in this agency and, and build with this agency?

• 50:11Speaker 01

  And I was doing all this without even being a registered agent.

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  I was getting all this talent without even being a, and I didn't have the, I didn't care about the business card, I didn't have the office, I barely had meetings, right? It was

• 50:28Speaker 01

  mano a mano.

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  And they believed in me and they, and, and another guy who really believed in me was a guy named Johnny Flynn. And Johnny Flynn, he was the sixth, he was the sixth pick in the draft. Today, he's known for going ahead of Steph. But when Johnny Flynn came out, you know, I think all of his, at that time was a great guard class, it was, uh, Drew Holiday, Johnny, Brandon Jennings, um,

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Steph,

• 51:00Speaker 01

  and I wanna say, um, Ricky Rubio was in that class, and Tyreek Evans was in that class. And it was just a great, Ty Lawson was in that class too. It's a great group of guards, great group of guards. And, um, you know, I, I was able to, to, to recruit Johnny and, and, and, and bring it home, so.

• 51:20Lewis Howes?

  But you were never thinking, I'm gonna recruit these guys and go launch my own thing?

• 51:23Speaker 01

  Never.

• 51:23Lewis Howes?

  You were just trying to support?

• 51:24Speaker 01

  I never thought that.

• 51:25Lewis Howes?

  So it was more of an impulsive thing because you had a falling out?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Because, because, going back to the lucky me, respect matters more than anything. I don't give a about your Hollywood agency. I care about respect and.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  When I felt disrespected, it was time for me to go. Right. Right, and that should be any such, if you're in a relationship, male or female, at the point you feel disrespected, it's time to go. It don't matter what the guy has or what he's purchasing you. I tell my daughter, it doesn't matter.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  And I would tell my son the same thing. My sons, the same thing. Um, and it's the same way for me. That's why I give people the ultimate respect. There's nobody in my business that can tell, that can ever say, oh, Rich is disrespectful to me. There's no one in this business that can ever say, Rich is disrespectful to me. That's never gonna be that. And when I had the, the point I was trying to make, when I made the point on Gil's podcast, when they was asking me about the situation with Stephen A. The point I was trying to explain to them, and I, I should explain it this way,

• 52:43Speaker 01

  in addition to how I explained it, because I was truthful with that, that's all cap. But what I'm saying is, it's cap because of, when you read Lucky Me, the one thing you're gonna take away from it is, I dealt with an environment that every day, this energy that existed, man, that, that's a different type of energy. And if I, that kid on the cover of that book, can navigate through that to get to this point, you think I'm getting here with that energy from there?

• 53:22Speaker 01

  So I'm never gonna put myself in a position for you to ever tell me to get the [bleep] out your face. Wow. That's never gonna happen. I'm for peace, I'm for profit.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  That's never gonna happen.

• 53:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Right? And so that's what my point was.

• 53:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  It's not about being playing a tough role or shit that note. It's about understanding my role, starring in my role, knowing my position, and knowing that I'm not getting to this place that I'm at today with that energy.

• 53:53Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  When I was in that environment, I had to carry that energy with me because it was on sight. Right? And so, but today, I don't live that life today. So I'm never gonna have that. I come with respectful, hey, how you doing? Nice to see you, blah, blah, blah, to my enemies. The same way I did when I was running the streets of Cleveland. And I'm in a neighborhood that I know may not like us or like somebody around me and, and, and, you know, in that situation, you know, you, you, you guilty as charged. You, you know, that's how it comes. You with them, then you ain't with us. That's how it works. And so, that's just always been my, my mentality. And so, that's what really, it wasn't, that's what made me leave.

• 54:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  And I've, I've always been a confident person.

• 54:43Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  So it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.

• 54:46Lewis Howes?

  Right. But when you left and you weren't, you knew you had four guys, but you weren't making any money for it.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:52Lewis Howes?

  It sounds like a year or two.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:54Lewis Howes?

  So how did you have the faith that, hey, this is gonna work out, even though I'm not bringing in a lot right now and?

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Because I was able to, I made something out of nothing. The same faith you have when you haven't seen your mother in six months. That face is, that faith is built within. The same faith you have when you have to, it's dark outside and you don't know who's coming down the street in that black hoodie, and you have to know someone's silhouette. That's the difference between you being here today and going tomorrow. How I grew up. Or that's the worst case scenario. The best case scenario is your pocket has rabbit ears. And so, that, but that's, that's, that's why I'm so lucky.

• 55:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 01

  You know, and, and, and most people would think I'm talking about, you have to read it to understand it. And when you read this book, because I know you're gonna read it. When you do read it, you're gonna call me, you're gonna say, Rich, I get it now. And so, everything I've ever done in life is based upon principle. And, and that's why when I was able to get around LeBron.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Everything was about principle for me. I didn't need nothing per se, but what he gave me, and that was an opportunity, which going back to how we started this conversation, when you're sitting in sanitation, you don't get that. It just so happened that

• 56:18Speaker 01

  he was also in sanitation too, and he understood that it's okay, you know, to give this person an opportunity because he felt that emotional connection, the ability to trust me and to know, look in my eyes and to know, oh, this guy is built off something different. Right? So this is more of me putting this wall around myself of protection between these guys that I got around me. I mean, think about it. I mean, how, talk about a lucky guy. I mean, I mean, obviously he created his own luck, but how do you pick

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Rich and Maverick?

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  That's, I mean,

• 56:59Lewis Howes?

  Well, what you guys have done, yeah, it's amazing.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  And Randy doesn't get, doesn't get the accolades,

• 57:07Speaker 01

  but it don't happen without him.

• 57:12Lewis Howes?

  He holds it all together.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  It can't be us without him, right? And so our ability to be one and to be separate. I have my own separate business. Maverick has his own separate business. You know, LeBron is a player. Randy works LeBron every day on his stuff and we collaborate on things that we can and things that we can't, we don't. And I'm not always in something that they do and they're not always in something that I do, but that's the maturity amongst us all.

• 57:38Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  We've grown to that place in our lives to where it's okay. And we understand business more now than ever before.

• 57:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so Clutch was a thing in which it was very impulsive. I believed in it.

• 57:55Lewis Howes?

  You got, you know, Jay-Z left an amazing review on the, on the back of your book. He said, uh, "One of the greatest stories of growing up in America's ghettos and overcoming adversity is what Jay-Z said on the back of your book, Lucky Me." I'm curious, you've built a relationship with Jay-Z. What's, what's the biggest lesson he's taught you?

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Jay, I mean, again, I think he, he's one of the, he's one of the better examples of someone who continued to evolve. And managed to transitions and reposition himself, right? And Jay's birthday is December 4th, mine is December 16th. You know, we're, we're both Sagis and we both come from similar backgrounds. And similar to LeBron and I, Jay and I have a different relationship, but where we share the same journeys. Different times, same journey.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  We align, same principles, same morals. We call it a G code. It's just certain things that despite what, you got to stand on that business. You have to stand on that decision. You have to hold yourself accountable. And I think it's important

• 59:12Speaker 01

  that we continue to collaborate with each other, unite with each other. Like, I didn't have to do this book with Rock Lit. I was actually down the road with a totally different company. Right. I didn't know that Jay was launching this arm. I happened to see it on Twitter. And I called him.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And I said, yo, I just saw something as that. He's like, yeah. I was like, well, you know, I'm doing a book. He's like, no, I didn't know you was doing a book. And I said to him, I said, well, look, the book is called Lucky Me. You know, it's my favorite Jay-Z song too, as well.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  I said, because of, it's my favorite Jay-Z song because it's something that hit home to me from the beginning to end. If you listen to that song, you'll understand the hook is powerful. And the third verse is, forget about it. But what I said to him was, but I'm down the road, this deal. Here's where the deal is at. I'm more than willing to do the deal with you, but you have to be able to match the deal. Right. Now, think about that. We're friends. We're brothers.

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  He said, let me call you right, let me call you right back.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Call me back. It's done.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  There you go.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  Right? But that respect. For each other. Simple. My respect for him. Cause I don't want my book to come out on a publishing company. It's not like we have one. If we had one. Then, great. I'll do it on our publishing. But we don't have that, so who does? Oh, my man has it. Okay, great, I'll do it on yours. I have no problem with that. And so. It's been great and, and, and the book is.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  It's a lot of emotion, man. I, I haven't been able to make it through the foreword.

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Foreword is powerful, man.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Foreword is extremely powerful, man.

• 1:01:12Lewis Howes?

  What LeBron says about you?

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  It's extremely powerful and when I, when I, and when I was reading, it took me four times, I had to stop. And it's not just what he's saying about me. Cause as he's talking. I'm thinking about. Us, and when I say us, I'm thinking about.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  That young kid in the community. That.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's just, it take a lot to get here, bro, like it does, you know? I don't have, I didn't have a, I didn't, my, my uncles were my heroes as well, but for different reasons. They taught me how to box, take Taekwondo, tumble, you know? Gave me thirty dollars if I was thirty dollars short on the new shoe, or whatever the case may be. And taught me how to hustle and so on and so forth. But imagine if they were. You know, the COO of this company, how. Easier your path becomes, right?

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  That don't exist in our world.

• 1:02:12Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  And not just in my world.

• 1:02:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Nowhere.

• 1:02:15Lewis Howes?

  Right. I love what he says about you. In the foreword, and I want people to get the book called Lucky Me. A memoir of changing the odds, extremely powerful. LeBron says about Rich, he didn't care whether I was a future pro or the kid across the street. He just knew I needed help and he gave me what I needed the most. The space to be vulnerable. And that is a beautiful thing. I'm curious, what is the thing you, you've spent a lot of time with LeBron? Uh, from before he was pro to where he's at now and everything in between. What's the thing you love and appreciate the most about him that? Maybe a lot of people don't know about.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  I think the thing I love and appreciate most about, about LeBron is. His willingness and his ability to empower. Hmm. You know, because let's be frank, like, he don't have to, you know, everyone was telling him. Why would you, why would you do that? Even the people that we put in position that never would have been in that position if it wasn't for us. We allowed them to play a role. They wasn't gonna be his agent. We gave him, we gave them that. Right. You understand what I'm saying? And so then for you to turn around and have the audacity to ask him, why would he, after being, giving something yourself?

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  That just shows you about us as a whole, America. Like, this is crazy. Right. Right? And despite all of that, and again, it's so hard, right? And they were just hoping that we failed, because if we failed, then forget anybody else trying to do it. If we fail, it's not even a thought for the other athletes. The only reason why today, other athletes even consider, it's because of us. Right. Which is great. But the likeliness is very unlikely due to all these different things.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  But that doesn't mean, you, you don't have to duplicate it, but you can take a page out of the book. Mm-hmm. And do it, maybe you collaborate with somebody and do, and fit, you know, like, there's more than one way to skin a cat, is what I've been trying to explain to everyone. Yeah. Right? You don't necessarily.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  I wish I could make the next Instagram. Right. I probably won't. Yeah. But, you know, like, when you talk about duplicating things, you don't think I wanna duplicate the model that, uh, Coca-Cola had? Right. How about Microsoft Windows? You wanna duplicate that? We can duplicate that, you know? It's all these different things that I wish we can, I could duplicate. And it's okay that I can't, but at the same time, it's okay to take a page. Yeah. And for me, and we'll end it here. If people can just take a page out of this book and apply it to their everyday life, and that that helps them not not take a step forward, take an inch of a step forward in life.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  I'd be I'd be so happy.

• 1:05:24Lewis Howes?

  Man, I've got I've got I've got two final questions, but I want people to get the book. It's called Lucky Me. Make sure you guys get this. A lot of wisdom, a lot of lessons and incredible stories about how you've overcome so much and to and to get inside the mind of one of the most powerful business leaders in sports today to learn about the lessons is extremely valuable. So I want people to get this book. Before I ask the two final questions, I want to acknowledge you, Rich, for everything you've done, everything you've overcome, and the the value system that you've had your entire life, and how you continue to show up for people in a relationship to serve them, not always thinking about you and what you can get from the relationship.

• 1:06:07Lewis Howes?

  So I really want to acknowledge you for that because I just think so many people try to get quickly, and you really did everything you talk about in this book and you talked about today, which is, I was a star in my role, then I learned, then I repositioned, then I set myself up for the next thing, and it's really cool what you've done. So I acknowledge you.

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  Appreciate that.

• 1:06:26Lewis Howes?

  I love seeing people, you know, from Ohio crushing it and making a big impact.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  Oh, H, baby.

• 1:06:30Lewis Howes?

  I know. Let's go. I love this. So I want to acknowledge you for that. Uh, these two questions, I'll keep them quick. This is a question I ask everyone at the end of my conversations. It's a hypothetical scenario.

• 1:06:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06:41Lewis Howes?

  So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day on earth, and you get to accomplish and create everything you want to create in your life. Uh, but for whatever reason, on this last day, you've got to take all of your content with you. So this book is gone, this interview is gone, no one has access to the words you've said or written ever. It's gone for whatever reason. But on this last day, you get to leave behind three truths to the world, three lessons that you've learned, and this is all we would have to remember you by. What would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind?

• 1:07:18Speaker 01

  Oh, man, this is this is a tough one.

• 1:07:20Lewis Howes?

  I know, sorry.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  Especially on the spot. Uh, you know, I don't know if it's three, but what I will say is I would just valuing, I think, valuing family.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  You know, um, throughout life, as you, as you become older, you, you start to understand how important that is, right? I would say,

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  you know,

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  just pouring out and really, really, really making a huge investment in others.

• 1:07:57Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Really making a huge investment in others. And I would probably say, it's not my last thing, but another thing, um, for me, just really

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  having a better understanding of the value of time.

• 1:08:18Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Good truths, man. Final question. What is your definition of greatness?

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Wow. I think my definition of greatness, honestly, is, um,

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  you know, consistency

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  and consistency and, and, and, and development of habits

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  that allows you to

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  better position yourself and others.

• 1:08:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  Because I just think it's hard to be great without having consistent habits. And I think people put, you know, I'm great because I did these things and because I got this accolade.

• 1:09:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  But they never talk about what allowed them to be great at its core. And when you go back to every great person, whether it was an inventor, an athlete.

• 1:09:24Speaker 01

  You know, I think it starts with there. Yeah. You know, just that consistency of habits. Yes. It's very important, right? And I don't know, I don't know anyone great at doing anything that doesn't have the consistency of habits. Amen, man. You know. Lucky me. Lucky me, baby. Thanks for being here, brother. Thank you.

• 1:09:45Lewis Howes?

  I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels, at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life,

• 1:10:26Lewis Howes?

  then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.