Pod Insights The School of Greatness How To Build Confidence, Overcome Criticism & Bet On Yourself EP 1380 About this episode Stephen A. Smith rose from a reporter on high school sports at the Daily News and college and NBA beat reporter at The Philadelphia Inquirer to become the face of ESPN and its most important on-air personality. He is the star of the #1 morning sports talk show First Take, a premiere analyst on ESPN and ABC’s NBA Countdown, the host of NBA in Stephen A’s World on ESPN2 and ESPN+, and the host and producer of the podcast K[no]w Mercy with Stephen A. Smith. Smith has more than 12 million followers across social media platforms, and his opinions on sports make daily headlines. Be sure to check out Stephen’s new book, Straight Shooter: A Memoir of Second Chances and First TakesIn this episode you will learn, What betting on yourself should look & feel like. How to make your hard work stand out. What it means to be a man. Ways to navigate criticism while maintaining your confidence. For more, go to lewishowes.com/1380Inky Johnson On How To Hack Your Mindset To Overcome Life’s Challenges: https://link.chtbl.com/1279-podEd Mylett on Developing Superhuman Levels of Self-Confidence: https://link.chtbl.com/1274-podEmmanuel Acho On Overcoming The Fear Of Failure & Living A Life Without Limits: https://link.chtbl.com/1245-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript 11,777 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:03 Lewis Howes? Here's the thing, there is one person in charge of how successful, how fulfilled, and how happy you'll be in 2023 and beyond. And that person is you. That's right. I've got some good news, though. I want to help coach you into living your greatest year yet for free in my upcoming training. And I'm going to break down the keys to create long lasting change over the next 12 months and beyond. And you can follow through on pursuing your dreams. You can rewrite the story in 2023 and stop living out the same fears and self doubt that has held you back for years. And you can take a major leap towards multiple areas of your life. But first, you just got to make sure you click the link and show up. Join me for this upcoming free training, The Four Keys to Overcome Your Fears and Achieve Your Biggest Goals
0:48 Lewis Howes? by going to lewishouse.com/reprogram. Make sure to click the link to sign up and I can't wait to see you there.
0:56 Speaker 01 Betting on yourself is believing in you, knowing who you are, what you're worth, having an idea about it anyway, and willing to work towards that to validate that reality. That's betting on yourself.
1:10 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
1:34 Lewis Howes? We've got a number of things in common.
1:36 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:36 Lewis Howes? After learning more about your backstory, your childhood, and diving into your book, Straight Shooter. Number one, we're both not diagnosed with dyslexia early on. In eighth grade, I was at a second grade reading level when I got in eighth grade. I think we were held back in fourth grade or somewhere around there.
1:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:57 Lewis Howes? So we both struggled in school.
1:58 Speaker 01 Okay.
2:00 Lewis Howes? We both are the youngest in the family. I'm the youngest of four.
2:04 Speaker 01 I'm the youngest of six.
2:05 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
2:05 Speaker 01 Right.
2:06 Lewis Howes? And we both had challenging times with our fathers.
2:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:11 Lewis Howes? And we both played college basketball.
2:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
2:14 Lewis Howes? So this is just a few, and we both have a podcast.
2:17 Speaker 01 There's a lot going on, there's a lot going on, you know.
2:20 Lewis Howes? But it's amazing that I learned more about your story because I didn't know a lot of these things about you and I want to talk about some of them. But you seem so, you are confident, you seem confident on, on camera, on TV, in your podcast, when you're doing all the different stuff on TV. But did you always have this confidence and if not, how did you start to develop that, that confidence? Especially with all the setbacks, with all the heartaches, with getting, you know, fired from ESPN at one point and then coming back. How do you stay confident when you don't grow up that way?
2:52 Speaker 01 Well, first of all, to answer your first question, I was not always confident, there's no doubt about that.
2:59 Speaker 01 I've always had my insecurities. What I firmly believed in was, as it pertained to me, was that I always worked hard. I was never lazy. I was always somebody that believed in hard work. And when I got to a point where that seventh grade teacher, it's in the book, and that seventh grade teacher talked about, you know, finding what my passion was and you'll have a star on your hands. And it was really validation for me at that point that I had that kind of potential. And so that's really, really where it started. And from that point forward, the mission was to find what I love to do.
3:44 Speaker 01 And discover whether or not I can make a living actually doing it. And when it came to sports, obviously I was incredibly confident. I wasn't incredibly confident as a player per se because even in college I was five nine, five ten, a hundred and thirty pounds. You could blow me away for crying out loud, but I could really ball. And so because of that, I had enough confidence to know that the skillset, which got me a basketball scholarship, which put me in a position to learn from a legend, not just about sports, but about life. I learned about that and then I learned about the importance of networking because he knew everybody.
4:27 Speaker 01 And because he knew everybody and I was one of his players, I came to know so many people. And a multitude of people that I'd I'd come to know, the late great John McClendon, ultimately the Sunny Hills of the world of Philadelphia, the John Chaney's, the John Thompson's of the world, and various others. You could pick up the phone and talk to anybody, or you could run into anybody and have a conversation. And they edified you with their wisdom, their knowledge, uh, that they were eager to impart upon somebody that wanted to listen.
4:56 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
4:56 Speaker 01 Somebody that they felt was interested in making a difference. And that's when that last part came in. Because if I wasn't interested in making a difference, if I wasn't interested in impacting the lives of others in a positive fashion, they would have not been interested in giving me the time of day. I had to be interested in something greater than myself to get their interest to elevating me.
5:18 Lewis Howes? How, were you always interested in making a difference in other people's lives?
5:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:22 Lewis Howes? Or since the time you were a kid?
5:23 Speaker 01 Always, always. I was, I was just growing up in the streets of New York, um, Hollis, Queens. Half of my friends are dead, uh, a lot of them were in the drug game.
5:36 Speaker 01 Those who were not in the drug game and aren't dead still had their struggles.
5:42 Speaker 01 And to see the things that I saw and to be surrounded by a bunch of Muslims growing up.
5:49 Speaker 01 You know, black empowerment was a big thing, um, a belief in oneself, and that was the difference. So many people think about black empowerment and you think, you know, you got folks screaming about white folks and others being the devil. It's one like that. It was about black empowerment, believing in yourself, being self-sufficient, striving to do whatever you could to be the best that you could be. So you could be seen as an equal.
6:13 Lewis Howes? Right.
6:13 Speaker 01 And that's what people miss in this day and age. So understanding that difference just made me more motivated to be in a position where if I spoke, people would hear me. Not just listen, but actually hear me. Because I came at you in such a way that you couldn't help but open your ears and be receptive to what I had to say. Even if it were for the purposes of simply disagreeing with me. You had to listen. And that's what I tried to do.
6:43 Lewis Howes? How did you develop that skill set to get people to listen?
6:46 Speaker 01 My mother told me I had it coming out of the womb, that, that, you know, you know, they marveled at the struggles that I had in the classroom because...
6:58 Speaker 01 It didn't show in grades per semester. It would show up in elementary school on the final exams. And then when you took the final exams and the reading comprehension wasn't up to snuff, you got yourself left back. But if you listen to me throughout the year and I'm talking, you're like, this is a really, really smart kid. Because I knew how to speak, I knew how to articulate my thoughts, et cetera, et cetera. My challenge was reading and then comprehending exactly what I read.
7:23 Lewis Howes? I couldn't read a page and remember what I was doing.
7:25 Speaker 01 That's right. I couldn't do, I couldn't, I couldn't comprehend it. And so for me, you know, that was the big challenge and, you know, but I always had supreme confidence in my ability to express myself. I might not have had it any other, any other way. But when it came to expressing myself, I knew that. And I remember throughout the years, you know, because I've been single all of these years, even though I'm a dad, and I would tell, I've always told women this one line. There is no one you will ever find more emotionally honest than me. What I meant by that was, you will know how I feel. You'll never be able to say, I had no idea.
8:09 Lewis Howes? Right.
8:09 Speaker 01 This was totally clueless to me. He didn't tell me. I didn't know.
8:13 Lewis Howes? You expressed it fully.
8:14 Speaker 01 No, I expressed it. I articulated my feelings very, very well because I was raised by five women, my four older sisters and my mother. My brother left when I was nine years old to go to the armed services before coming out and becoming a salesman before he passed away in a car accident in 1992. But I was raised by my four older sisters and my mother. And so when you're around five older women, all of whom are telling you what to do.
8:40 Lewis Howes? Right.
8:40 Speaker 01 When you stand up to express yourself, you had better know what you're talking about. Otherwise, they would slap me upside the head and say, boy, go ahead. And it was just that simple. And so, you know, I knew that and after dealing with them, of course, I'm fearless because who could be worse than them?
8:56 Lewis Howes? Right. What was the greatest lesson your mom taught you then?
8:59 Speaker 01 Wow. My mother, you know, obviously, hard work was first and it stood out above the crowd because my mother was like, you're never gonna get anywhere being lazy. And you're the hardest working guy on TV. You work more days than anyone else on TV. That's what they say. That's what they say. I have averaged, you know, I've never worked less than 330 days a year, with the exception of last year when I had COVID. Outside of that, I've never worked less than 330 days in any year in my entire career, my entire journalism or television career. That's been nearly 30 years now, if you can include the newspaper industry. But I would tell you that hard work is what stands out to answer your question directly because, but it was for different reasons.
9:43 Speaker 01 My mom was a very, very hard worker. But she had to because my father was negligent. He was lazy, right? He was, well, you don't wanna say the word lazy in this respect. It wasn't that he wouldn't work. It's that he would take his earnings and go elsewhere. Got it. And he wouldn't bring it home. So he'd do it for himself? Tell him to do it for himself and not the family. And that was really the crime. My mother, as a result, was forced to work. But what she wanted to instill was the importance of hard work. She says, because you don't work hard to play hard, she used to tell me. You work hard to have the ability to play when you want to. That's a good line. There's a difference.
10:25 Speaker 01 And what she meant by that was that you handle your responsibilities first. And when you work hard and you have that sense of pride, it goes right out the window if you utilize your efforts in the wrong fashion. But when you do what's right and it's based off of that effort that you put in, then you feel good about it because you took care of your responsibilities, then you can go play. Sure. Can't do the playing before any of that stuff. Right. And so I've always been about my business in that regard, to put in the work, to make sure, like, one of the greatest compliments I've ever received in my career, I had to give a speech at the University of Syracuse. This is about three years ago.
11:09 Speaker 01 And the, less than three years ago, actually, more like two years ago or so. And the, two to three years ago, and the athletic director of the school, his name is Mr. John Wildhack. He's the athletic director at Syracuse. He's my former boss at ESPN. He was an executive VP spanning three decades. Whatever he was as an executive doesn't even come close to what he is as a man. He's a good man and somebody that I have a lot of love and respect for. And he asked me to come and speak to the Syracuse football team.
11:47 Speaker 01 And when I went to speak to them, he introduced me. And he said, I've been in this business for thirty-five years. This man, Stephen A. Smith, is the only talent in my career that I had to make take vacation.
12:04 Speaker 01 And it was the honest truth. Wow. It's not to say I wouldn't take vacation. Right. But I'm very big on when the job gets done. That's when you take it. As Kobe said, job's not finished. It's like, you know, people go on vacation, Kobe was big about that too. And, you know, Lord, I miss him so much, God rest his soul. But it's like, he was that guy. And, you know, for me, the story's the story. When something's percolating, the audience expects to hear from me because of what I've been blessed and fortunate enough to establish at ESPN. Yeah. If I ask the audience to invest in me on that level and I build that kind of cachet with the audience. If I can't do something, I can't do something.
12:48 Speaker 01 But if I can, I'm supposed to. Yeah. Because I asked them to make that investment in me. And so to me, it's why I've been on vacation on a boat between St. Thomas and St. John's. And I'm working on SportsCenter, literally in the middle of the ocean. Wow. Fifteen-minute boat ride, that's all it was, right? It's a reason why I'm in Barbados one summer and I'm doing the same. It's a reason why I'm in St. Thomas, Virgin Islands, and I'm doing the same. You know, or I'm in Europe and I'm doing the same. Because I had the means to do it, I had the access to that intel. And the audience had come to expect me to be a guy that they heard from when something was percolating.
13:30 Speaker 01 And you hear da da da da da, sports and the breaking news, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Where the hell Stephen A? And it was my job to say, I'm right here. And so that's the kind of mentality I've always had.
13:42 Lewis Howes? Right. You're here, you just may not be in studio in the same place every time.
13:45 Speaker 01 Well, absolutely. Most of the time I'm not because I'm on a move. I'm making things happen, you know, I mean, I don't, I'm not somebody that's staying still. I'm in studio because they have me. Like, people could sit up there and say that he's not at games and stuff like that, but you don't hear people saying that about me. Because they knew that when I didn't have a studio show to do, I was at a minimum of 125 games a year.
14:07 Lewis Howes? That's crazy.
14:08 Speaker 01 Minimum.
14:08 Lewis Howes? It's amazing.
14:09 Speaker 01 I, I showed up. I was in the locker room. I was courtside. I'm in the press box. I go to games. I stopped going to games as much because A, I'm stuck in studio and I can't just get up and travel when I gotta be in studio the next morning by 9 a.m. Number two, and more importantly, um, when you, you know, you, you're not at the games. And because you're in studio, people are looking at you and they're thinking, hey, well, you know, why isn't he there? Then they say, this guy was always there. And this guy would always be there and he just get, because I like, I can't stand talking about people I don't talk to.
14:52 Speaker 01 Now, you can't help it because you can't talk to everybody and so many people make news. But I'm the kind of guy, I, if I'm talking about Lewis, I'm like, yo, man, I'm about to say this today. Here's how, here's why.
15:06 Lewis Howes? You're telling them first.
15:07 Speaker 01 I try to tell them first.
15:08 Lewis Howes? Wow.
15:09 Speaker 01 Now again, you can't reach everybody. And more importantly, sometimes, especially in the world of sports, unlike politics and stuff like that, in the world of sports, they don't want to be reached. They don't want you to have that access a lot of times. Very few of them are different. Kobe was one of those people. Yeah. Like, I was like guarded with what I said. Sure. Because Kobe called. It wasn't a publicist, it wasn't some agent, it wasn't anybody, it was him. Right. Man, I know that I didn't just hear your say blah, blah, blah. Did he do that one time? Oh, several times. Really? Kobe, Kobe be on me, you know, no the hell you didn't say, Stephen A, I expect you to know more. What the F was that? I mean, come on now. And then we'd go back and forth and we'd argue about it, you know?
15:53 Speaker 01 Shaq and me, same thing. We'd argue about it because they, you know, they knew I knew my basketball. So we'd have a conversation, we'd talk about things, but if they're right, I'm gonna say they're right. Wow. And if I said something publicly and I was wrong, I'm not gonna connect it, I'm not gonna correct it properly. I'm gonna correct it publicly. Wow. I'm gonna show them that courtesy. And that's my MO. That's good. With anybody, I don't care who you are. If I say something publicly and I'm wrong publicly, I'm apologizing, I'm apologizing and I'm correcting it publicly. Wow. Because it's not personal. It's not personal. I have a job to do. I know there are lines I'm not gonna cross. I'm not gonna get into your personal affairs, whatever. Stay out of the police blotters.
16:38 Speaker 01 Don't make your personal business our personal business because your business becomes public. Outside of that, ain't nothing my business. Right. You ask? What you do on the court or field of play, that's my domain. And if you play like, excuse my language, I'm gonna call it. Right. I'm gonna say it just the way it is because that's what we saw. Uh huh. Understand that. And Kobe was one of those dudes that he'd challenge you because he was a basketball savant, brilliant mind, you know? And this is what he is, but this is me. So it's Kobe, it's Michael Jordan, it's CP3, it's D Wade, it's Shaq. It's all of these people that I've known, you know, it's stars, it's, you know, the Spike Lee's of the world, Jamie Foxx of the world, Michael B. Jordan's in this day and age. Everybody got to say the same.
17:23 Speaker 01 But a lot of times they're right. I'm not, doesn't make me wrong, but when I am wrong, I'll correct it. It's the right, it's the right thing to do. And I'm always, always, always going to be that guy. Cause I'm not the most religious person in the world, but I do believe in God. I do believe in a high power. I do believe in the spirit. I do believe in that. And if you don't have that kind of oomph inside of you that really humanizes you and shows your humanity and your willingness to be fair, then you ain't worth much. And I would never be that guy. But then you also have people that are just ultra sensitive. They shoot two for 20 and you said they shoot, they, they play like trash tonight.
18:07 Speaker 01 And it's like, it's like you talked about their mama. It's like, it's like, wait a minute. You, you shot two for 20 in front of 20,000 people in attendance and millions watching on television. Why are you having an attitude with me? You did it for the world to see. What's the problem? And so you have to, you just maneuver yourself through that mind field. And the best way to do it is to be fair.
18:29 Lewis Howes? I'm curious about how you handle criticism and, and feedback and hate and anger and frustration. And a range of the emotions that might come as criticism towards you for being so forward on your thoughts. And your full range of emotions publicly and certain things. A lot of people that love you, a lot of people that don't love you as much. And they both watch you.
18:53 Speaker 01 Yep.
18:53 Lewis Howes? Right? They, they love you, they hate you, they're still gonna watch you.
18:55 Speaker 01 Right.
18:56 Lewis Howes? How do you handle when you say something that maybe you were wrong or right or whatever? And people don't like it and they are aggressive and their attacks, their feedback, their, their criticism. How do you handle that and still stay confident? When maybe a lot of people are second guessing you in that moment?
19:16 Speaker 01 It depends on what we're talking about.
19:19 Lewis Howes? Sure.
19:22 Speaker 01 First order of business.
19:25 Speaker 01 Was I honest and truthful?
19:30 Speaker 01 Did I display my humanity?
19:34 Speaker 01 Was I fair?
19:37 Speaker 01 If the answers to those are yes, excuse my language, they can kiss my
19:43 Speaker 01 I can kill us. Yeah. And kill us what they think. It really doesn't, I don't lose in a minute of sleep over it, a second of sleep over it. It doesn't faze me in the slightest.
19:55 Speaker 01 If I'm wrong,
19:58 Speaker 01 totally different,
20:01 Speaker 01 I have to correct that. Yeah. I was wrong. And I have to be just as straight up about myself if I, as I was willing to be about them. Now we get to a different category. Was I cruel?
20:18 Speaker 01 I am not a person, I have a hard time with somebody telling me I was cruel. I don't believe I'm a cruel person. I don't believe I'm cruel because you did something in public display and I called it like I saw it. Yes. You wanted everybody to see it, they saw it, they judged your actions, not you. Your actions. Your efforts. Your actions, your efforts, your lack thereof, whatever. I don't believe that's cruel. Now if I use that to campaign against you and to character assassinate you and to get everybody to believe this is who you are,
21:00 Speaker 01 they shouldn't like you, they shouldn't trust you, they shouldn't show you no love, they shouldn't give you any second chances and stuff like that, that's cruel. Yeah. I don't believe I'm that guy. And so you have a, you'd have a very, very difficult time convincing me that I'm a cruel person. Because I can tell you right now, there's not many, believe it or not, people think that athletes, you know, can't stand me or whatever the case may be. Listen, man, I get a lot of love and respect from these guys. Do they want to sit down and be across from me doing an interview? Hell no. They don't want that, they don't want that smoke because they know what I'm going, they know some of the questions I'm gonna ask. Sure. And unlike
21:44 Speaker 01 a reporter that hasn't been blessed and fortunate enough to achieve what I have achieved, that needs to ingratiate themselves with them so you don't alienate them so you can continue to do your job, I don't have that problem. Literally, I can wake up every morning and say, who do I want to talk about today? Be by virtue of A, the debate show format that I work on. B, the fact that it's been number one for 11 years and that the viewers keep coming. We're in linear television, okay? And just last month, in linear television, you know, in an age where shows are being canceled, salaries are being cut, people are being laid off, show's still number one and the print and the ratings are pre-pandemic ratings.
22:30 Speaker 01 In linear television, in an age where they're using smartphones and subscribers have dipped by the millions. My ratings have stayed the same or have increased double digits. It's incredible. Month to month, over the span of years. Why do you think that is? Well, they got love for me. Or they love to hate me. My host, Molly Karam, is phenomenal. The contributors on the show from Michael Irvin to Mad Dog Russo to Keyshawn Johnson to Dan Olavsky and Marcus Spears, Ryan Clark and, you know, Mina Kimes and Kendrick Perkins and all these people that I have contributing to the show, they're phenomenal.
23:12 Speaker 01 And it's entertaining because we haven't, we've, we've, we've brought that entertainment element to sports. We're not just spewing our knowledge about sports. We're trying to entertain you. We're making you laugh. We're making you think. We're, we're talking about a lot of different things, so that goes a long way. But to get back to your question, I say this to you. Again, cruel is a different animal. And to make sure that I'm not cruel, again, you're dealing with things differently. And I make sure, as long as I'm fair, as accurate as I possibly can be, and I display my humanity and avoid being cruel, and most importantly,
23:54 Speaker 01 Making sure I draw a distinction between assassinating what you do.
24:01 Lewis Howes? Right.
24:02 Speaker 01 As opposed to who you are.
24:03 Lewis Howes? Your character, yeah.
24:04 Speaker 01 As long as I make sure to draw that distinction and I don't engage in the character assassination of another person, I sleep very well at night.
24:13 Lewis Howes? That's amazing.
24:14 Speaker 01 I sleep very well at night.
24:15 Lewis Howes? Now, you've had, you know, in your book, which is beautifully written, by the way. I love, I love the stories and everything. I haven't finished every.
24:20 Speaker 01 That means a lot to you to say that, because I wrote it.
24:23 Lewis Howes? Yeah, I can tell. I can tell your voice. I'm excited to finish it, but you, you talk about a lot about the setbacks. And I don't think people know about all your setbacks personally. I'm curious, or professionally, quite honestly. I'm curious, in your mind, what was the biggest setback in your life, either personally or professionally, that people either know about or don't know about? And what was the biggest lesson that you learned in that heartache, in that setback, in that pain that has served you today?
24:52 Speaker 01 It, it varies. There's some times that I think getting left back, and be, and be very, very clear. I got left back twice. I got left back in the third grade.
25:03 Speaker 01 In June of my third grade year, but that September, after summer school, they promoted me back to my right grade. So it was like I didn't get left back at all.
25:12 Lewis Howes? That's nice.
25:13 Speaker 01 Then I went to the fourth grade, completed that year, and then got left back again.
25:18 Lewis Howes? Wow.
25:18 Speaker 01 And this time held back the whole year.
25:20 Lewis Howes? The fourth grade over.
25:21 Speaker 01 The fourth grade. I had to do the fourth grade over. So the third grade I didn't have to do over after summer school, but the fourth grade I had to do over.
25:27 Lewis Howes? Wow.
25:27 Speaker 01 And so it was incredibly embarrassing and humiliating. And some of the things that my father said about me to my mother hurt incredibly much. Um, there's no doubt about that. It's all in the book.
25:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
25:40 Speaker 01 Um, but sometimes I've thought it was that, and then there were other times I thought it was in 2009, when ESPN let me go.
25:49 Lewis Howes? That was kind of the dream job, right? This is the place, this is the space.
25:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that wasn't the reason. It was that everyone knew. You gotta remember, I had, I was on NBA Countdown, NBA Shootaround at the time. That's what it was called. And I had my own show, quite frankly. And a year and a half earlier, the show had been canceled. After 327 shows, 780-plus interviews, the show had been canceled because of minimal ratings. And everyone knew. And so, when you go from that, to being on billboards, to being on commercials, to be on national television every day, to getting let go, everyone knows you're gone. Everyone knows it's not of your own volition.
26:38 Speaker 01 Everyone knows you've been fired. And then you also have to take into account the black element. When you are a black man, you do not, if you're smart, which a lot of us are, you don't assume that opportunities are waiting for you. You know obstacles are standing at every door. You do firmly believe, and you're raised to believe, you have to do twice as much to get half of what folks in white America get. And so that challenge that you have to embrace and you have to deal with, that's hard to deal with when you have achieved. It's hard to deal with when you're standing on the mountaintop. Because everybody's gunning for you, trying to take you down.
27:22 Speaker 01 But when you fall, you never assume it's guaranteed. And so, for me, to lose my job was bad enough. To lose a seven-figure salary was bad enough. But to then turn around and to know that everybody knew, and to know that you had your share of haters, and people were basically saying it was justified, not knowing anything that was going on or why it happened, to go through all of that, while at the same time, wondering whether or not you were gonna ever be able to restore your career. Wow, you're an expected father.
28:07 Speaker 01 Hmm, my goodness. It is, it was by far the scariest moment of my life. There's no doubt about it because you wanna know what a nightmare is for a man. And I say this to people and I've said this to black men, I've said this to white men. I've said this to everybody. I said, this is where real men come into play, where we all in this together. If you are a real man, you want to provide for your family. Mm-hmm. To those out there, you ain't a real man if you ain't thinking about providing for your family. You understand? If you wanna take all the money for yourself and you don't wanna give nothing to anybody else and you wanna leave everybody else hanging while you live the good life, that is not a man.
28:52 Speaker 01 A man provides. That's what men do when you have a family. Any man, I don't give a damn what ethnicity you are. When you have a concern as to how you're going to pay your bills. Hmm, scary time. There is nothing worse. Scary. There is nothing worse. Cause then you don't feel like you can be a man. That's right. There's nothing worse. I don't care if you have a woman with money. You still don't feel like you're a man? You don't feel like you're a man. Right. Because it's like, she, she could make, she could make two million a year. No matter. If you made three hundred thousand a year to her two million, you're still okay. Yes. Because you know you could provide for your. For the lifestyle.
29:34 Speaker 01 And you could provide for a certain lifestyle. Maybe not the lifestyle her salary gives you. Right. But it ain't like you on the street. Right, you're buying food, you're paying for rent, you can travel. You're fine. You don't have to make as much as her or whatever. But when you cannot provide. At all. At all. It is no worse feeling on the planet. That is.
29:57 Speaker 01 That is as close to death spiritually as I've ever felt in my life with the exception of losing my mother. Nothing, losing my brother was devastating.
30:14 Speaker 01 Losing my mother was just a different level.
30:17 Speaker 01 It's hard to explain and put into words what I went through after I lost my mother.
30:24 Speaker 01 But a close second was when I was unemployed. And wondering whether or not I was gonna have a job.
30:33 Lewis Howes? And what was the lesson for you and what did you learn or develop in that time?
30:37 Speaker 01 First thing I learned is that don't give a damn about popularity.
30:45 Speaker 01 Whole bunch of people knew me.
30:48 Speaker 01 Well, this is double edged sword to that. That means they knew I was fired.
30:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I was popular.
30:56 Speaker 01 That means when I got fired, I was popular.
30:58 Lewis Howes? Popular, talked about.
30:59 Speaker 01 They talked about, exactly. You know, they're popular for the wrong reasons. So you can't give a damn about that. The other thing was, and the most important lesson, matched in my business.
31:11 Speaker 01 I thought popularity was people screaming my name in the streets.
31:18 Speaker 01 I paid little to no attention to revenue or ratings. I left that to other people.
31:23 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
31:25 Speaker 01 So you know what that meant, Louis? I didn't know my worth.
31:30 Speaker 01 I had no clue.
31:31 Lewis Howes? You didn't know your financial worth because you were like, well, people know me, they're talking about me, I'm on TV. So that's enough.
31:37 Speaker 01 That's right. Exactly.
31:39 Lewis Howes? You didn't understand the numbers, the banking.
31:41 Speaker 01 When you go to negotiate, well, you're offering me X amount of dollars. Well, I think I'm worth twice that much. Well, why? How can you validate that? So. You didn't know how to communicate that at that time. I had no idea. Right. I was clueless. It's like, I'm just happy to be on TV. I got the popularity. Again, I talk about all of that in the book. And then I went, and let's just say this, fast forward, less than 10 years later. After I had been back, because I returned back to ESPN two years after that. And I had gone through a couple of contracts. By the time 10 years later arrived, and it was negotiation time. Yep. There was no emotion, zero, zero.
32:26 Speaker 01 It was like, these are my ratings. This is the revenue that I'm told I bring into, I bring to the table. Right. Was my money. So. Yeah. And that's exactly how I felt. It's amazing. And all of a sudden, you become empowered. Because the industry has a right. Any industry has a right to speak their own language. You can't go before a judge in a courtroom, in a criminal courtroom, talking like an accountant.
33:02 Speaker 01 The accountant has his language. The criminal justice system has its language. The corporate justice system has its language. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. The medical profession has its language. You have to speak that language. Outside of speaking that language. You have to edify yourself to the point where you're having a conversation and you're looking people straight in the eye devoid of any emotion. Because when you're talking numbers and facts, now they have to come at you with their own. And if they can't do that, then emotions infiltrate the proceedings. And once emotion infiltrates the proceedings, it only did that because you don't have the facts to back up the argument you were making. Sure.
33:45 Speaker 01 And if you don't have the facts to back up the argument that you wanted to make, so you divert to emotions. What that means is, you don't want to pay me. Now we get to the why would you not want to pay me? If I'm bringing in this revenue. Yeah. In the world of business, you have people. That have this mentality, you ever see these corporations and they talk about, well, you know, we gotta lay people off because, you know, we're projected to lose this amount of money. Well, actually, you didn't lose money. You projected that you were gonna make more than you actually made. You budgeted accordingly. You didn't meet that targeted number. And so, everybody around you have to suffer because your numbers were off. Right. Right?
34:30 Speaker 01 Right. And because of that, that might have led to you hiring people that didn't need to be hired, hiring an inordinate amount of people that didn't need to be employed, etc., etc. It could lead to a lot of things, but at the end of the day, the point is, there's real losses and then there's actual, there's projected losses. Sure. So, when you're paying attention to all of these things, all of a sudden, it empowers you. Mm-hmm. Because now, you have an idea of what your worth is. Right. And it leaves you in a position of being able to make better decisions about what's best for you. Because you're able to depersonalize things. My problem back in the day was that I personalized. Mmm. I got caught up in, I deserve this, I, I worked 330-plus days out of the year. You got guys getting paid more than me that you paying.
35:12 Speaker 01 They work, they, they work 100 days out of the year, they work 20 days out of the year. You got emotional. Yeah, and then you got emotional. You didn't know the numbers. And I didn't know, I didn't, and again, sometimes, the, the numbers are always arguable. Right. They always, they can fudge it. But the point is, you have a ballpark idea of what those numbers are and what your worth is. Yes. And by virtue of that, when they come to you, you're able to negotiate. When ESPN came to me with my last negotiation,
35:42 Speaker 01 they shocked the living hell out of me. With how low or how high? It wasn't the number that I wanted. And I eventually got more. Okay. But their, the opening offer Was so low. Was very respectable. Oh, it was? And I knew it. So, they shocked you? I went like this, well, this is lower, but damn, I didn't expect an offer this much. That's nice. So, all of a sudden, it changed the whole tenor of things. Because I knew you respected.
36:07 Lewis Howes? You're not frustrated, you're not.
36:08 Speaker 01 Not at all. Because it's like, okay, there's a negotiation that has to take place here. But this number is very respectable. And the number was respectable enough for you, because you didn't make me, you didn't have to make me work for it.
36:22 Lewis Howes? Right.
36:23 Speaker 01 If they had made me work for it, I would have walked. No one knows that. But I would have walked. Because after what I had been through, I'm perfectly fine if I have to make less now to get more on the back and being in an environment that I think is fruitful.
36:39 Lewis Howes? Sure.
36:39 Speaker 01 And edifying for me.
36:40 Lewis Howes? Wow.
36:41 Speaker 01 And the fact that they came with such a respectable offer at the very start
36:49 Speaker 01 completely disarmed me. Because now it's a fair negotiation. You're not insulting me. And because of that, that changed the whole, changed my whole complexion.
37:00 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you're like, yeah, I want to be here then.
37:02 Speaker 01 I want to be here.
37:02 Lewis Howes? I feel like you want me here.
37:03 Speaker 01 There we go.
37:04 Lewis Howes? I want to be here.
37:05 Speaker 01 There we go.
37:05 Lewis Howes? That's good.
37:06 Speaker 01 There we go. And that's important. Because when you work as hard as I do. You expect to feel wanted.
37:11 Lewis Howes? Hundred percent.
37:12 Speaker 01 You expect to feel wanted because you got to remember, we sign contracts. So understand as long, once I sign my contract, as long as I show up to work every day and I honor my contract, I don't owe you anything. I could win, I could lose. It doesn't mean anything. My number's guaranteed. But I don't play that way. I pursue number one at all times.
37:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you pursue the win.
37:32 Speaker 01 And so, I got my money and I could have rested on my laurels, but it ain't in me. And it was made considerably easier, easier for me not to rest on my laurels because of how they go open those negotiations. The respect that they showed me made me say, I'm good here. I appreciate that.
37:54 Lewis Howes? That's good.
37:55 Speaker 01 But it took that because I was planning on walking. Nobody knew that, but I was planning on walking.
38:01 Lewis Howes? From ESPN?
38:01 Speaker 01 Yes.
38:02 Lewis Howes? Wow.
38:02 Speaker 01 Yes. It all came down to how you're going to treat me because I knew that I had felt disrespected in the past.
38:09 Lewis Howes? Interesting. Isn't it interesting that you cared, well, you cared about the money, obviously, but more about the way you were treated? And whether or not you would continue to support a massive global organization in being successful, or you taking your talents, as LeBron would say elsewhere.
38:27 Speaker 01 Right.
38:28 Lewis Howes? And it's interesting for people to know, just in working environments, relationships, that people care just as much about how they're treated over the number.
38:37 Speaker 01 People.
38:39 Lewis Howes? And maybe it's not over, but it's just, it's an equal.
38:42 Speaker 01 My pastor, my pastor, and again, I'm not the most religious person in the world, but you know, I love God and I'm thankful for all the blessings that he's given me. And one of the greatest blessings he's given me is my pastor, A.R. Bernard, at the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, New York. He is a man that is near and dear to my heart, and I, I love him eternally. And a lot of times I use him as that litmus test per se, or that, that more, that morality gauge per se, for lack of better words. Sorry if that's not good enough. I want to make sure, he knows when I'm on the air and I'm bragging, when I'm having a good time trying to make people laugh, I'm joking around or something, he knows that's
39:26 Speaker 01 not my MO, you know, so it's like, he, he knows that about me. If I'm sitting there, I look, I look good, hell no, I don't think I look that good. I'm not ugly. I'm not Godzilla, but I, I don't think I'm some male model. I ain't Zoolander, okay? I'm not that guy, right? That's not me, all right? But here's the thing, at this industry, in this industry, that I'm in, of tele, of broadcast television, stuff like that, I believe I'm the best there is. I ain't apologizing for it to anybody. I, I think I'm the best thing since sliced bread.
40:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
40:04 Speaker 01 My pastor knows why I feel that way.
40:06 Lewis Howes? Why is that?
40:07 Speaker 01 My sisters and my family and my closest friends know why I feel that way. Number one, I always use this line, I'm brilliant because I know I'm not. I steal from those who are. And I learn from them, and I disseminate that level of brilliance that I got from other people, always giving them credit, number one. Number two, here's the biggest thing, I think I'm the best because I think about the company.
40:39 Speaker 01 I know Bob Iger, the CEO of Walt Disney. I know George Bonenheimer, the former president of ESPN, ABC. I know Jimmy Pataro, the present, the present president of ESPN, who's a really, really good man. Norby Williamson, Dave Roberts. Pick up former bosses like John Skipper, John Wildtack, Connor Shell, or whatever. I challenge any human being alive to go to any of them and ask them what my dedication was to winning. What is winning? It's not my definition. They define it. When you represent a brand,
41:24 Speaker 01 the brand decides what winning is. You can't sit up there and say, "This is what winning is to me." No. It's not your company, yeah. I'm a big dude. I'm a big deal, they say. I'm the most recognizable face on ESPN, blah, blah, blah. "Man, you bigger than ESPN." No, I'm not. They'll be just fine without me. NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, National Hockey League. List goes on and on. I'm a lot of things. I ain't a $22 billion a year conglomerate. That's not who I am. I'm not that big. I'm not Walt Disney. But you know what?
42:07 Speaker 01 Whatever Walt Disney's mission is, how can I help? So, as I say in the book, how can I make my bosses more money? How can I get some of it? Right. That mentality That's a game changer. is what makes me the best. That's a game changer. Because what I'm saying is, I'm not saying I'm the best because I articulate myself on television better than anybody else. Even though I think I work as hard as anybody, but I work more than anybody. Or that I got, even though I've been number one for 11 years in morning television, "Pardon the interruption," is number one on ESPN, not me. I'm a lot of things. I'm not my brother, Michael Wilbon. I'm not my brother from another mother, Tony Kornheiser. I'm not those guys.
42:52 Speaker 01 They're the institution. You see what I'm saying? I understand who I am. But what I'm saying is, is that... You show me what winning is for the brand. And I'm gonna bust my butt to go and get it for you. Don't forget me. Make sure you reward me. Or I'll go someplace else that does. Treat me well, yeah. Treat me well. I'll find a way to go someplace where I will be treated well, even if it's on my own, like I'm doing with my own podcast. I will do all of those things, okay? All I'm saying is, is that that is what I believe makes me the best. It's my commitment to excellence for the collective whole. That's incredible. Not just me. I don't go on First Take.
43:36 Speaker 01 I'm the executive producer of First Take. The bosses handing me carte blanche. I'm the one that determines the rundown every day. I'm the one that goes on TV every day and executes it. The people that contribute to First Take have been handpicked by me. I picked them, okay? I'm the one responsible. Do I have bosses to institute? Dave Roberts, yes. Jimmy Pataro, yes. Nobby Williamson, yes. The, the, Bob Iger, yes. I have to answer to these people, no question. They're the bosses. But they've made me the boss of First Take. Right. Okay? Antoine Lewis, exceptional black man, be producer for First Take. James Dunn, Sam Tanucci, Nick Skiallo, all of these guys, phenomenal guys.
44:18 Speaker 01 But I'm the one that they put it on the, on, on the shoulders, okay? I understand every day.
44:28 Speaker 01 What would Dave Roberts want?
44:31 Speaker 01 What would Jimmy Pataro want? What would Bob Iger want? I'm not saying that those decisions are the final decisions that I make, because they left it up to me. Sure. And sometimes I believe that my thought process, it's rare, but sometimes I believe that my thought process might be a little bit different than theirs and it might work better for this particular show. But there is never a moment that I'm on the air that I don't think. About what they want. And a lot of people will sit up here, what kind of true independence is that? Stop it. The fact of the matter is you getting a check from somebody else. You have an obligation to think about them.
45:08 Lewis Howes? Sure.
45:08 Speaker 01 And a lot of times, it's just like a musician. If you Jay-Z, you running Rock Nation, you're a billionaire, blah, blah, blah. Do you make music just for yourself or do you think about what the audience would want? What about the record company that you, the people that you employ, who do they think about? You know, we have the President of the United States leading the free world. Want to get reelected, don't you got to think about what your constituency wants? Everyone has to think about somebody. It is absolutely silly and erroneous and disingenuous to convey a message that says otherwise.
45:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
45:40 Speaker 01 And that's what I know.
45:42 Lewis Howes? That is brilliant you said this because if everyone could take this in and realize it's about the win-win.
45:47 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:47 Lewis Howes? It's about how can, you know, when I was playing high school ball, I was a freshman, trying to make the varsity.
45:52 Speaker 01 Right.
45:53 Lewis Howes? And I wasn't as good yet, but I was tall, so they put me in there, right?
45:56 Speaker 01 Right.
45:56 Lewis Howes? I would listen to the coach and say, and complaining about some of the starters who weren't hustling. He said, we need more hustle.
46:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:03 Lewis Howes? I need you guys diving for balls, jumping out of bounds, and I was just like, I'm going to be the hustle guy. Right? I'm going to do what he needs, what he wants, so I can play. And try to help him win.
46:13 Speaker 01 Right.
46:13 Lewis Howes? And that got me on the team.
46:14 Speaker 01 Right.
46:15 Lewis Howes? It's like working for a company. It's like if you can help the company make more money.
46:18 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
46:19 Lewis Howes? They, and show them that, they're going to want to continue to support your growth.
46:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:23 Lewis Howes? The win-win. So this is, for me, that's brilliant. And I don't think a lot of people probably think you think that way.
46:28 Speaker 01 They don't.
46:29 Lewis Howes? So for, for me to know that you're thinking of like, how can I make this the best show in the world, obviously for me, but, but for the company to succeed.
46:36 Speaker 01 Right.
46:37 Lewis Howes? The win-win.
46:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
46:38 Lewis Howes? That's why you're one of the best.
46:39 Speaker 01 And that's why I can be in a negotiation and I'm looking at them with a raised eyebrow, how you going to treat me?
46:44 Lewis Howes? Right.
46:44 Speaker 01 Because the names that I mentioned, along with everyone else at that company, knows that about me.
46:50 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
46:51 Speaker 01 So if you know that about me, why would you undercut me?
46:54 Lewis Howes? Uh-huh.
46:54 Speaker 01 Why would you lowball me?
46:55 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
46:56 Speaker 01 Why would you put me through stress and strife when you know I'm trying to do this for you? Because those are, those are the things that are going to determine. My tenure here. You see, because you do get to a point in life where you got new regimes coming in. You got people that have been reassigned, repositioned, and they got their own vision and they want their own people. Well, they don't always tell you in corporate America, and I'm not talking about ESPN. I'm talking or Disney, I'm talking about in general. They don't always tell you they don't want you anymore. They just have little ways of showing you.
47:27 Lewis Howes? Right.
47:28 Speaker 01 And so when you realize that, it's incumbent upon you to say, I got the message. It's time to make new plans. And so the beauty of the business that I'm in, the business I've chosen to be in, is that instead of working around the clock trying to figure out what somebody else wants from you, good or bad, there are moments that crystallizes it for you in your mind. Pay attention and you'll see what they are.
48:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
48:02 Speaker 01 And you'll know what to do accordingly. Don't be scared to leave. Don't be scared to bet on yourself. Um, you're going to be scared anyway because it is scary. But at the same time, betting on yourself isn't always leaving. Betting on yourself is believing in you, knowing who you are, what you're worth, having an idea about it anyway, and willing to work towards that, to validate that reality. That's betting on yourself.
48:31 Lewis Howes? Right.
48:31 Speaker 01 Whatever decision emanates from that is based off of you looking at you and saying, I'm going for it.
48:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
48:40 Speaker 01 And that's why I wrote my book. That's why I have my podcast and all of this other stuff because that's the point I reached.
48:47 Lewis Howes? I'm curious, you know, again, you, you are and you come across extremely confident in your knowledge, your wisdom, your brilliance and knowing you're not brilliant, all these different things. You're extremely knowledgeable. You've got decades of reps and experience. But for people that are riddled with self doubt and insecurity, you mentioned insecurities in the beginning that you used to have. How does someone overcome the doubts that come up? Whether it be the fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of other people's opinions, the fear of pleasing their parents, how do they overcome the doubts and start to gain that confidence, that self esteem like you?
49:27 Speaker 01 Well, a couple of things. Number one, first of all, understand you're not alone. That everybody you run across has had doubts. Everybody you've run across has had apprehension about who they are, where they're, where they are, where they're going, etc. You're not alone. In situations like that, you want company. You wanna feel like you're not this aberration. You're not this anomaly, standing alone by yourself in the wilderness of fear and you're the only one that doesn't have the courage to tackle it and overcome it. That's number one. Number two, educate yourself about what you wanna do.
50:05 Speaker 01 You should be scared if you're clueless. You should be scared if you're ignorant to what you wanna do, why you wanna do it, and how you intend to go about achieving whatever aspirations you may have. You're supposed to, i- if you're going to overcome that fear, at some point, knowledge is a part of the equation. So educating yourself about what it is, your field is, what it is, your aspirations are, whatever the case, maybe the mind fields, that lying weight, all of these different, the potential mind fields, etc., etc. You gotta know, to educate yourself about those things, because you have no shot at overcoming it if you don't educate yourself. And last but not least,
50:48 Speaker 01 you know, it's not just about educating, educating yourself and knowing that you have company. But really, the most important thing is really putting yourself, and it requires like a literal, not just figurative, but a literal look in the mirror. Asking yourself how you will feel if you never try.
51:13 Speaker 01 Asking yourself, if I never try, if I don't go for this, where's that gonna leave me?
51:22 Speaker 01 When you don't do that, what you have done is refrain from challenging yourself to be all you could be. Because there's no one that could become all they could be without looking at themselves. Absolutely. You know, Denzel Washington talks about consistency, the importance of consistency. You understand? You gotta put in the work, you gotta go for it. But you have to have consistency. Because without consistency, putting in the work, the dream is nothing but a dream. Right. And I get all of that, but you have to be able to look at yourself. And you have to be able to be honest with yourself and know when you mess up. Because when you mess up, Louis,
52:08 Speaker 01 it's gonna catch you. And what I mean when I say it's gonna catch you is, at some point, you're gonna look at you and you're gonna say, "I didn't try. I didn't go for it." And we know this because of relationships and various other things, but I often tell people this, particularly when it comes to relationships. Relationships come and go. Things don't work out sometimes. But there is nothing on earth worse than when you know you're the reason it messed up. See, if somebody mistreats you, if somebody that you love wants you, you know, don't want you no more, but you wanted them,
52:51 Speaker 01 and you treated them right, and blah, blah, blah, but it didn't work, it hurts. But you'll be fine. Yeah. Most people will be fine. When you're not fine is when you know it was you. You messed up. You messed up. You hurt them. You want, you wanted them and you messed up. And you messed up. Now, if you didn't want them and you messed up, okay. Because you didn't want them. Perfectly illogical explanation as to why you messed up. But when you wanted them and you effed up, it's no greater pain. Yeah. Because you gotta look at you. And you gotta say, "Damn."
53:27 Speaker 01 I blew this. And that's some hard, hard stuff to overcome. Cause it lives with you because no matter what you have, even if it's better, you don't know it because you're thinking about what you lost because you're the one who messed up.
53:40 Lewis Howes? I know.
53:41 Speaker 01 If they messed up, you ain't thinking about it like that. But if you messed up, you're always thinking about what you lost. And it's hard to move forward.
53:50 Lewis Howes? I've got a handful of questions for you left.
53:51 Speaker 01 Sure.
53:53 Lewis Howes? And one of them is about in the book, Straight Shooter. Make sure you guys get the copy of the book, Straight Shooter, Amazing Stories and Lessons from Stephen A. You talk about your dad and I'm curious, the biggest lesson he taught you, whether in a good way or a bad way, that you said, this is something he did positive that I'm gonna do as a father? Or something that I'll never do as a father that he did?
54:19 Lewis Howes? What is that lesson? And what has he taught you about fatherhood now that you are a father?
54:23 Speaker 01 The importance is two things, one positive, one negative. The positive part is he taught us the importance of laughter because my father was funny.
54:32 Lewis Howes? Really?
54:33 Speaker 01 And you know, he was exceptional in sports and he was an exceptional calypso dancer. He could sing and he would make people laugh and smile all the time. He could light up a room. And you know, the importance of laughter, you could bring up a lot of gifts, but somebody's ability to make other people, other people laugh is one of the greatest gifts you could ever give anybody. That's a positive.
55:02 Speaker 01 The negative is that, and it answers the question about fatherhood,
55:08 Speaker 01 he taught me what not to be as a father.
55:14 Speaker 01 My father, this is in the book, he just wasn't good.
55:22 Speaker 01 I loved him, always will.
55:27 Speaker 01 But I didn't shed a tear when he was gone.
55:33 Speaker 01 The only reason I see him at his gravesite is because he's buried next to my mother.
55:37 Lewis Howes? Wow.
55:39 Speaker 01 If he wasn't, I wouldn't go visit him.
55:42 Speaker 01 We didn't have that good of a relationship. It's not hatred,
55:48 Speaker 01 but there is a significant and flagrant lack of respect.
55:55 Speaker 01 My lack of respect for my father
56:00 Speaker 01 has very little to do with me.
56:04 Speaker 01 It has very little to do with how he quote-unquote treated my mother. Because my philosophy is, don't put your hands on a woman. He put his hands on my mother, we would have killed him.
56:18 Speaker 01 But he never did that. And he preached against it, so I give him credit for that. But what he did with my mother,
56:31 Speaker 01 he forced her to be the man of the house.
56:35 Speaker 01 Now, I know that's not the popular thing to say in this woke culture. I'm not apologizing for that. It is a beautiful, beautiful thing for a woman to have a career, to make money, to provide for her family. I admire it, I respect it. I throw no shade on it. But I am unapologetic about the fact that if you can afford it, it is your responsibility as a man to provide for your family.
57:06 Lewis Howes? Especially if your wife just has six kids. You've got to take care of nurturing and feeding and developing.
57:11 Speaker 01 It's your job. It's your job. You understand? I mean, any help that she could give you is great. But the responsibility is supposed to be yours. And if you can't do it, you scratch, claw, and even die trying. One of my favorite all-time shows was the show Good Times. James Evans Senior. You know?
57:38 Speaker 01 He lived in the projects in Chicago.
57:41 Speaker 01 They had to scratch and claw. They barely had enough money to feed their family. It was a apartment in the projects. But that's what they had to deal with. He was the one out there busting his butt every day to make sure that his wife and his children were provided for. I'm of that ilk. It means nothing to me. And I mean nothing. And I'm not married. I've never been married, even though I'll probably get married sometime in the near future. The bottom line is this. It's my responsibility. And I usually say this, and even though I would take care of my wife and what have you, I have two daughters, and I tell people all the time.
58:21 Speaker 01 If they're hungry, it's because I'm starving.
58:24 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
58:25 Speaker 01 I don't eat. I don't eat unless I know they eat.
58:29 Lewis Howes? Wow.
58:30 Speaker 01 I'm not comfortable until they're comfortable. I'm not providing for me until I provide for them. When they're taken care of is when I get to take care of me.
58:43 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
58:43 Speaker 01 The priority is them because they didn't ask to be here.
58:48 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
58:48 Speaker 01 They're mine and they're my responsibility.
58:52 Lewis Howes? Wow.
58:52 Speaker 01 And I live by that.
58:54 Lewis Howes? Wow.
58:55 Speaker 01 And so to me, any man that thinks differently is not the kind of man that I respect.
59:03 Lewis Howes? Sure.
59:04 Speaker 01 And my father was not that kind of man.
59:06 Lewis Howes? Right, right. Do you feel like something unlocked inside of you when you had your first child? Because at the time, if the timeline is right, you got lost the job and then the child was on the way, the first child. Was there a new power?
59:20 Speaker 01 She had just arrived, she had just arrived, yes.
59:21 Lewis Howes? Was there a new power, energy, or something that?
59:24 Speaker 01 It was pure fear.
59:26 Lewis Howes? Really?
59:26 Speaker 01 It was pure fear, Louis.
59:27 Lewis Howes? Wow.
59:28 Speaker 01 I've never been more scared in my life. I've never been more scared in my life. I was petrified. And I held on to that because regardless of what I felt I didn't deserve from ESP and letting me go, the reality of the situation was it was the time I was living in. And I had to find a way to feed my child. It's just that simple. And I was scared to death.
59:54 Lewis Howes? Wow.
59:55 Speaker 01 To death. I mean, I really, really, really was. I had saved up money. I had saved up well over half a million dollars and I was living off of it.
1:00:05 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
1:00:06 Speaker 01 You know?
1:00:07 Lewis Howes? You see that go down every month.
1:00:08 Speaker 01 You see that go down every month and it's dwindling and you're like, oh. You know, it was really, really, really scary. So for me, that's what it is now. Anything that I have now is dressing. Because to me, I can give up. A couple of my cribs. You know, I can give up the cars. I can give up any of that stuff. What I can never give up is making sure that my daughters are provided for.
1:00:39 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
1:00:39 Speaker 01 That's my number one responsibility. Everything comes after because I'm a man. And that's my responsibility.
1:00:48 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
1:00:48 Speaker 01 And if I were to get married, even though unmarried, I'm still like that. But if I was married, I'd be even more like that. It's my job to handle my responsibility for my wife. Now, some people be like, man, please, you got some men out there that's like, hey, man, please pay some bills. But you think, I don't think like that because anytime I see a woman pushing and struggling or whatever, I think about my mom and what my mother was forced to go through. And so for me, that is everything to me. You do what you want. I'm talking about what you have to do. I'm not talking about doing what you want. To me, if you are a man and you have a woman in your life, you have a family,
1:01:33 Speaker 01 she should have to pay bills. That's your job. That's just the way I am.
1:01:39 Lewis Howes? Sure, I love this. Steve, I got two final questions for you. I know you got to run here in a minute, so I want to wrap up with these two final questions. Before I ask them, make sure you guys get Straight Shooter. Get the book. You can, your website is where you can probably get it, straightshooterbook.com. You're Stephen A. Smith everywhere on social media. Also, No Mercy with Stephen A., the podcast. Make sure to check out a different side of you, a different perspective if you guys want to learn more there. But again, get the book, some powerful stories and lessons in this book. I really recommend it. The two final questions, and again, thanks for being so open and sharing your thoughts here.
1:02:20 Lewis Howes? This question is called the three truths question. I ask everyone at the end of the show. It's a hypothetical question scenario. Imagine you live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth.
1:02:31 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:02:32 Lewis Howes? And you get to accomplish everything you want to accomplish. From this point moving forward, it all happens. It all plays out the way you want. But for whatever reason, everything you've ever said or written or on ESPN or the podcast, for some reason has to go with you. So no one has access to your communication anymore. Your words, audio, video, it's all gone. Hypothetical, but you had three things you could share with the world. And this is all we have to remember are these three lessons that you have. I call them three truths.
1:03:03 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:03:03 Lewis Howes? What would those three truths be for you? Again, this is off the cuff, so you weren't, you weren't prepared for this. But what are, what are those three truths for you off the cuff?
1:03:13 Speaker 01 I love family.
1:03:19 Speaker 01 I was honest as I could possibly be.
1:03:25 Speaker 01 And I never mean to hurt anybody.
1:03:27 Lewis Howes? Yeah. I love it. I want to acknowledge you, Stephen A, for your creativity, for your brilliance, for your intelligence, for your wisdom, for your consistent dedication to your craft over decades. Even when people didn't see the worth of the value and you showing up and owning it and declaring it even more. So I really acknowledge you for that.
1:03:52 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:03:52 Lewis Howes? And I also acknowledge you for being one of the most entertaining people on TV. It's fun to watch you. It's fun to be entertained and your wisdom and your debate skills are incredible. So I really acknowledge you for all the gifts that you have and the talents you bring in the world. And your real honestness in this book, Straight Shooter, I really appreciate it.
1:04:10 Speaker 01 Thank you.
1:04:11 Lewis Howes? Final question, what is your definition of greatness?
1:04:15 Speaker 01 Wow, I've never been asked that before. My definition of greatness.
1:04:23 Speaker 01 Sustained excellence. That's just the two words that come off the top of my head.
1:04:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 Anybody could be great for a moment. Anybody could have their moment in the sun.
1:04:36 Speaker 01 But who you truly, truly are at a particular craft.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 It's whatever is done over a period of time, a sustained period of time. You know, to me,
1:04:52 Speaker 01 First Take being number one is not what I'm proud of. I'm proud of the fact that it's been 11 years straight. That's what I'm proud of.
1:05:04 Speaker 01 You can do a lot of things. You can't take away what I've done over the last 11 years.
1:05:09 Speaker 01 It's sustainable, it's sustained. And the fact that I was able to do that at a continuous level, that means I had to put my head down and do the work. And just be about the business of being as excellent as I could possibly be on a day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out basis. And something along that way, I've proven two things. I didn't cheat anybody because I wouldn't have been able to have the sustained excellence if I did cheat. You know? And so, I didn't cheat anybody.
1:05:54 Speaker 01 And just as important as that, I cared.
1:06:02 Speaker 01 Because when you're in our line of work, particularly when you've been blessed enough to make the money that I've made,
1:06:11 Speaker 01 it's real easy to sit up there and say, "Hey, I don't need this. I'm good. I got my money." I've never been that guy. And last but not least, it proved I was trustworthy. Because when an employer pays you, they don't pay you for what you've done.
1:06:32 Speaker 01 At least totally. In part, they may have, but not totally. What they're paying you for is that they're projecting that it's going to continue. They can't project forward in a positive fashion without a belief in you and a trust in you. And somewhere along the way, while I was doing what I've been doing, I've shown I'm trustworthy. That you can trust that I'm gonna be at the top or I'm gonna go down swinging.
1:07:06 Speaker 01 And they, no matter who it is, it's Disney today and ESPN today, it could be somebody else next year, year after, whatever the case may be, or it could just be me working for myself. But anything that I do, I'm always going to strive to be at the top of the mountain.
1:07:22 Lewis Howes? Stephen A, my man, thanks, sir.
1:07:25 Speaker 01 Appreciate it. Appreciate you.
1:07:27 Lewis Howes? Powerful. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter
1:08:11 Lewis Howes? and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com/newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
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