ENCORE: Rod Blagojevich: All the Governor’s Men | 217

We’ll be back soon with all new episodes. In the meantime, enjoy this episode about Rod Blagojevich, the infamous governor of Illinois who used his office to line his pockets. Rod Blagojevich is an ambitious son of immigrants who knows how to win over a crowd. After marrying the daughter of a powerful alderman, he rises through the ranks of Illinois politics. He gets elected governor in 2002, and immediately starts wheeling and dealing, leveraging his influence for his own personal gain. But when he gets wrapped up in a scheme to sell Barack Obama’s U. S. Senate seat, he’s faced with the campaign of his life. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sarah Hagi?

  Audible subscribers can listen to all our episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.

• 0:08Scaachi Koul?

  We'll be back in two weeks with a brand-new episode of Scamfluencers, but today, we're revisiting a story that just keeps getting more absurd: the saga of Rod Blagojevich, the Illinois governor who tried to sell a US Senate seat. When we first told this story, Rod had already had his sentence commuted by President Trump during his first term. Well, in February 2025, Trump went even further and gave Rod a full pardon, saying that what happened to him was a "terrible injustice." And what did Rod do with his fresh start? Well, he became a lobbyist.

• 0:42Sarah Hagi?

  That makes sense for someone who tried selling a Senate seat. It's like, why not do something evil but legal, right?

• 0:50Scaachi Koul?

  Well, within weeks of his pardon, Rod registered to lobby on behalf of the Republic of Srpska, a Serb-majority territory in Bosnia. He's also lobbying the Trump administration to pardon another convicted politician, Anne Pramajiori, the former CEO of Commonwealth Edison, who was found guilty last year of bribing the Illinois House Speaker.

• 1:09Sarah Hagi?

  I guess it's one of those game-recognize-game situations, right?

• 1:13Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it has to be. So, to recap, the man who went to prison for trying to sell political favors got pardoned and is now being paid a reported six figures to ask for more pardons. Rod even told The Washington Examiner that Trump said he'd back him if he ever ran for office again. So with this stunning update in mind, we're taking another look at Rod Blagojevich, the governor who proved that in politics, the grift never really ends. A heads up to our listeners: the subject of this episode, Rod Blagojevich, has a bit of a dirty mouth, so this episode has a few more F-bombs than usual. Welcome to the messy macho world of Chicago politics, baby.

• 1:58Scaachi Koul?

  Sarah, you know how American politicians are always campaigning on how they come from humble roots? You know, it's like, "Son of a goat, doctor, daughter of a boat of immigrants," you know, that kind of thing?

• 2:08Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, it's the American dream. They're like, "I'm the American dream, and so are you."

• 2:13Scaachi Koul?

  Yes. Well, do you ever buy it? Like, does it make you believe in the politician? Because it makes me much more suspicious.

• 2:22Sarah Hagi?

  Of course I don't. That's why I'm proud to be Canadian, where our leader is the son of a former prime minister.

• 2:29Scaachi Koul?

  Well, I ask because today, I have a story about one of those politicians. A son of Eastern European immigrants who loved the attention he got from campaigning, and the money he made as a powerful figure in American politics. But you know what I remember the most about him, Sarah? His hair. His awful, awful hair. It's October 2009, and Rod Blagojevich is visibly nervous. He's wearing a dark suit with a blue tie, and his signature mop of thick brown hair hangs over his eyes. He's in a boardroom, seated next to celebrity chef Curtis Stone and retired Olympic sprinter Michael Johnson. TV cameras highlight the sweat dripping down his face. He fidgets with his tie.

• 3:13Scaachi Koul?

  He seems completely out of his element. For six years, Rod was the governor of Illinois. But not anymore. He's recently been impeached. He's also been charged with racketeering, conspiracy, and lying to public officials. But his anxiety isn't because of the 19-count federal indictment. No. He's frazzled because he's appearing on The Celebrity Apprentice. And the show's host, Donald Trump, is not happy.

• 3:40Speaker 02

  I just want to ask this one question. Your Harry Potter facts were not accurate. Who did the research?

• 3:48Scaachi Koul?

  On this week's episode, Rod's team, which includes Poison frontman Bret Michaels and wrestler Goldberg, was assigned to create a 3D infographic about Universal Studios' wizarding world of Harry Potter. But Rod's presentation was a mess. He's uncomfortable and he's obviously unfamiliar with Harry Potter. Here he is trying to name the houses in the book's fictional school, which he calls Hogwarts.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  It's Slytherin and it's Hufflepuff and it's Ravenclaw.

• 4:17Scaachi Koul?

  Rod was a political star, and now he's one of the worst contestants on The Celebrity Apprentice. He naps during assignments. He's bad at delegating tasks and talking with his teammates. He is unable to use a cellphone. At one point, he tries to turn on a MacBook by flipping it upside down. But Rod is desperate to stay on the show. Not just because he wants to win people over and convince them that he did nothing wrong as governor. It's also because he's broke and he needs the reality TV money. And the longer he stays on the show, the more he gets paid. But the Donald has other ideas.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Governor, I have great respect for you. I have great respect for your tenacity, for the fact that you just don't give up. But Rod, you're fired.

• 5:06Scaachi Koul?

  As governor, Rod used to handle tens of millions of dollars, and his decisions affected the lives of more than 12 million people. But his political career went about as well as his foray into Harry Potter marketing. Now, his hopes of reality TV redemption have been dashed. And soon, he'll face a much harsher judgment: in federal court.

• 5:31Speaker 04

  I'm Lauren Malloy, the host of the podcast My Mom's Murder. For 30 years, I thought my mom died of natural causes. That's what everyone told me. That's what I believed. Until one day, I got a phone call that changed everything. A woman claiming to be my mom's best friend told me my mother was murdered and that no one had ever investigated it. So I did what the detectives Wouldn't, pulled the threads, knocked on doors, and confronted the contradictions. And what I found, it's worse than I imagined. Something happened to my mom. Someone killed her. And I won't stop until I find out who.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  The system may have given up on my mom, but I never will. Listen to My Mom's Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all 10 episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 6:31Speaker 05

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Jonathan Bailey as Dracula and Ella Purnell as Mina Harker. Don't miss the year's best new audio thriller. Listen to Bram Stoker's Dracula only on Audible.

• 6:54Scaachi Koul?

  From Wondery, I'm Sachi Cole.

• 6:56Sarah Hagi?

  And I'm Sarah Haggy.

• 6:57Scaachi Koul?

  And this is Scamfluencers.

• 7:07Scaachi Koul?

  Rod Blagojevich was an ambitious son of immigrants who never lost an election and knew how to win over a crowd. But the same things that helped him rise to the top, like his love for fast talking and fundraising, ultimately led to his downfall. You might think you know the strangest things about Rod Blagojevich, but this is a story that includes bears, Elvis, and the most important hairbrush in the state of Illinois. It's an all-American scam. This is Rod Blagojevich: All the Governor's Men.

• 7:42Scaachi Koul?

  It's the summer of 1975, and 18-year-old Rod feels trapped. He's tidying up the offices of the Alaska Oil Pipeline Company where he works as a janitor. It's super dusty, so he decides to open up the doors and the windows. All he wants is a breath of fresh air. It's a long way from his home on Chicago's northwest side. Growing up, Rod's family was typical of the neighborhood: white, working-class, European immigrants. His dad was a Serbian-born factory worker with expressive eyes and a weathered face. His mother, a ticket taker on public transit, was born in the US to a family from Bosnia and Herzegovina. Rod grew up in the shadow of his older brother, Rob. That's Rob like Robert.

• 8:25Scaachi Koul?

  In high school, his brother, Rob, was movie star handsome, star athlete, and a top student. Rod, on the other hand, was baby-faced with chubby cheeks. He got cut from the high school baseball team, and instead of studying, he spent his time memorizing baseball cards and presidential trivia. But even at a young age, Rod knows how to work a room. He's the shrimpy little brother who doesn't mind being the butt of a joke if it makes people like him. He also loves Elvis Presley, his rags-to-riches story, his dance moves, and of course, how much he loved his mama. Rod is also a mama's boy.

• 9:01Sarah Hagi?

  That's really sweet. Good for Rod.

• 9:03Scaachi Koul?

  Well, this summer, Rod has joined his dad in Alaska to help pay for college. He didn't get a job on the actual pipeline like his father, so he's doing graveyard shifts scrubbing pots and pans and cleaning up the offices. He lives in a dingy, cramped trailer. He later described this time as being in a minimum-security prison. He's lonely and overworked. And Sarah, remember that door he opened to let in a little fresh air while he was cleaning? A few hours later, one of his coworkers rushes in and asks Rod if he's seen the office security guards. Rod says no, and he asks why. And the coworker then says, "Some fucking idiot left the doors open at the offices, and there are two bears in there."

• 9:45Scaachi Koul?

  And sure enough, two bears are wreaking havoc, turning over desks and knocking down lamps. Rod cleaned the place just hours ago, but who could tell anymore? He is the fucking idiot who left the door open. Even so, he lets the security guard take the fall. And over the next decade, Rod grows up. He moves back to Chicago to finish college at Northwestern and works as a court interpreter to pay his way through law school in Malibu. By the late 80s, he's a lawyer in Chicago. And while he'd rather forget his time in Alaska, he's learned a lesson that will stick with him for the rest of his career: lying can get him out of trouble.

• 10:25Scaachi Koul?

  It's March 1988, over a decade after the incident with the Bears. At a fancy political event in Chicago, Patty Mel is the belle of the ball. She's 22 years old and dressed up in a sleek red dress that complements her auburn hair and dark eyes. This is a glitzy fundraiser for her dad, Dick Mel, a longtime alderman who wields a ton of influence. Dick looks exactly like what you'd expect from Googling "old-school Chicago politician." White hair, no chin, bulldog face. You've heard of Chicago politics being called "the machine," right? Well, Dick is the machine. The event is at a German restaurant on the city's north side. It's a gorgeous two-story Tudor-style space with oak walls, old-world paintings, and a huge dining area.

• 11:10Scaachi Koul?

  But instead of feasting on sauerbraten and Spätzle, Patty is schmoozing. She's introduced to a 31-year-old lawyer named Rod. He's cute enough, with nice hair, but she really responds to his mile-a-minute conversation. Patty's impressed with his charisma and his charm. She's spent her life around colorful Chicago characters thanks to her father, but Rod sticks out, and he says something that makes a lasting impression. He tells her, "If you go out with me, I'm gonna show you the time of your life."

• 11:40Sarah Hagi?

  Would that work on you, Saji?

• 11:42Scaachi Koul?

  100% it would work on me. Might not work forever, but it would work on me for the night.

• 11:48Sarah Hagi?

  I would be like, "What's that gonna mean for me?"

• 11:52Scaachi Koul?

  I'm open to hearing more. Well, over the next two years, they fall in love. On drives together, Rod sings Elvis songs to Patty because his sports car radio keeps getting stolen. By the time they get married in 1990, Patty's dad, Dick, has already hired Rod to work for him. Rod likes the job, and he respects the way Dick gets things done through deals and maneuvering. Rod begins to see a future for himself: political office.

• 12:21Scaachi Koul?

  One day in January 1992, Rod and Patty arrive at Dick's house and see him on his hands and knees on the living room floor. He's surrounded by maps and a list of names. Thanks to redistricting, there's a state representative seat that's wide open. Dick doesn't like any of the politicians who might run to fill it, but there is someone who Dick likes: Rod. Even though Rod has no experience, Dick asks him to run for state representative. Rod says yes immediately. He just has one question: If he wins, could he vote however he wanted? Or would he have to listen to Dick? And Dick says, "I don't give a fuck about that."

• 12:58Sarah Hagi?

  All it takes is one guy to start the trajectory of someone like Rod's career.

• 13:05Scaachi Koul?

  As long as one guy named Dick Mel believes in you, you can have anything you want.

• 13:09Sarah Hagi?

  Dick Mel gave me my start, you know? I can't make fun of his name for that reason.

• 13:12Scaachi Koul?

  Grateful to Dick. Well, with Dick's help, Rod easily wins his first election. After the polls close, he calls his mom. She makes him promise that he'll be honest and won't take bribes. He tells her, of course. And then immediately after that, she asks him to find a job for her sister's son-in-law. It's a story Rod will tell as a joke for the rest of his career. And even though Dick said he didn't care how Rod voted, Rod continuously asks Dick how to vote throughout his time as state representative. After four unremarkable years in office, Rod decides to run for Congress. He feels bored with state politics, and he wants to be closer to the action. And with his father-in-law's influence, he has a real chance to get there. So here's the thing about Rod:

• 13:57Scaachi Koul?

  He's a natural campaigner. He's great at meeting voters at train stations, bowling alleys, and diners. He always remembers names and faces. And it doesn't hurt that his father-in-law, Dick, has a lot of money and campaign workers. Rod wins the election in 1996, the same year Patty gives birth to their first daughter, Amy. But once he gets to Washington, he's bored, and he spends more time jogging around the Capitol than on his committee assignments. He uses this extra time to focus on what he does best: calling campaign contributors to ask for money. And soon, Rod gets an opportunity to debut on the global stage and raise his own political ambitions.

• 14:38Scaachi Koul?

  It's 3 a.m. on April 30th, 1999, the middle of the Kosovo War. Rod is in a hotel room in Belgrade, Serbia, watching NATO bombs detonate on the horizon. He's responding appropriately by wearing running shorts and oohing and aahing at the explosions, which he thinks look like special effects. He calls his assistant and says, "Are you seeing this man?" Hours later, accompanied by HBO cameras, Rod jogs through the streets of Belgrade. He later tells Chicago Magazine he's thinking, "I'm standing probably where my father has stood." Rod is in like a bit of a weird state of mind. His mother has just passed away, and he's always been a mama's boy, but now he has to put his grief aside. He has a very serious job to do.

• 15:23Scaachi Koul?

  He's here on a mission led by the Reverend Jesse Jackson. Since Rod can speak Serbian, and he's the only congressman of Serbian heritage, he's helping to negotiate the release of three captured U.S. soldiers.

• 15:34Sarah Hagi?

  Okay, so the whole reason why he's there is that he speaks Serbian?

• 15:39Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, that's basically it.

• 15:41Sarah Hagi?

  And that's enough?

• 15:42Scaachi Koul?

  Well, he was the one in the room.

• 15:44Sarah Hagi?

  Got it.

• 15:45Scaachi Koul?

  And in negotiations, Yugoslavian President Slobodan Milosevic is so taken with Rod that Jesse calls him Slobodan's homeboy. It's a term that Rod has to explain to Slobodan, his new war criminal bestie. Eventually, the prisoners are released, and Rod knows that even though the Reverend will take most of the credit, it's still a huge victory. He's getting sick of DC, and he wants to be back home with his wife Patty and his daughter Amy. He knows Illinois' Republican governor is mired in a scandal for illegally selling government licenses, and even though the state hasn't elected a Democrat governor in 25 years, Rod smells blood. Rod announces his campaign in August 2001 at the steel plant where his father once worked.

• 16:30Scaachi Koul?

  His father died after suffering a stroke a little more than a decade ago, but Rod clings to his blue-collar immigrant origin story. He uses his heritage to position himself as a populist reformer. Take this campaign commercial, which was also filmed at the steel plant.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  I'm Rod Blagojevich. My name is Eastern European. My story is American.

• 16:51Scaachi Koul?

  Rod wants to strike out on his own and get out of Dick's shadow. So he relies on his own people to oversee fundraising, like Chris Kelly. Chris is a sweaty, cigar-smoking roofer who loves gambling. Rod likes him because he's fun, a working-class Chicago guy that you can really hang out with. In the primary, Chris helps Rod outraise and outspend his competitors at a rate of almost 4 to 1. Sarah, can you read how a former campaign consultant described Rod's rise to The New Yorker?

• 17:20Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, it goes, overnight Rod went from Dick Mel's schmucko son-in-law congressman with the goofy hairdo to, holy shit, this guy could be governor. And he never forgot that lesson, that the thing that made him real was money. I mean, it is so baffling and it's like, this is how things happen all the time and not just in America.

• 17:42Scaachi Koul?

  Yep. Well, all the money that Chris fundraises for Rod lets him sail through the primary. But it also gives him the freedom to be his worst self. He yells at staff and donors when one fundraiser ends up being seven grand short of a $300,000 goal. Rod's fundraising tactics seem similar to one of his biggest donors, Tony Resko. Tony is a bald, mild-mannered, and well-dressed Syrian immigrant. He's also extremely well-connected, a killer fundraiser, and an early backer of State Senator Barack Obama. Rod likes Tony because he gets the job done. And more importantly, Tony's ready to help however he can, like throwing Patty some needed work in her real estate career. After building a healthy war chest, Rod faces his first serious political obstacle,

• 18:26Scaachi Koul?

  one that puts him at odds with his father-in-law, Dick. At the Illinois State Fair in August 2002, just weeks before the election, a state leader claims that there are indiscretions in Rod's past. Dick goes on a local radio show to deny the rumors, but he just ends up giving them more publicity. He says that the rumor about Rod is that he, quote, "visited a house of ill repute." Dick calls this kind of rumor "gutter stuff, being put out by the opposition", and he repeatedly denies that there's any truth to it. But Dick's flub strains their relationship, and Patty is mad at her father. Even still, Rod manages to avoid a dip in the polls, and he easily wins a governorship thanks to Tony and Chris's help.

• 19:06Scaachi Koul?

  He quotes Elvis at his victory rally, saying he's got a hunka-hunka burn in love for his supporters. But do you know what Rod loves even more than his supporters? The power of public office.

• 19:22Speaker 06

  Journalist Tristan Redman goes where no son-in-law should ever go. Deep into his wife's family history, digging up the cold case of who murdered her great-grandmother. Because, I should mention, he thinks the murderer might actually be the beloved family patriarch. For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cassie DePecce, the host of Against the Odds from Audible Originals. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who lived to tell the tale. In our latest series, we track the story of Hugh Glass, the real-life revenant that inspired the 2015 film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In 1823, Glass was brutally mauled by a grizzly bear in present-day South Dakota and left for dead.

• 20:07Speaker 06

  His survival depended on trekking through 350 miles of wilderness alone with grave injuries. But he was driven by his thirst for revenge. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Against the Odds early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 20:30Scaachi Koul?

  And I feel like I...

• 20:34Scaachi Koul?

  Rod is inaugurated as governor of Illinois on January 13, 2003, flanked by his wife, Patty, and his father-in-law, Dick. It's a regal affair, and here's how Rod introduces himself as captured by C-SPAN.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  I see a state where ethics laws are respected, where doing good is once again honored. I will govern as a reformer, and I will lead this state in accordance with the values I learned.

• 21:01Scaachi Koul?

  Does he not sound like Mayor Quimby from The Simpsons? I mean, Mayor Quimby's a little more New England, for sure. But the same nonsense tone. The vibe is the same. Yeah, 100%. Well, after dancing to Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight," Rod and Patty stay up late drinking with donors and advisors at the governor's mansion in Springfield. That's where Mayor Quimby lives. Rod sees a bowl of oranges in the kitchen and reportedly tells the party attendees, "Have a taxpayer orange. It's on me."

• 21:33Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, yeah, that is kind of a funny joke, but not the kind of joke you should be making at a party when you just got elected.

• 21:41Scaachi Koul?

  Well, one of the first things Rod does as governor is make an executive order freezing all government hires. He also fires dozens of people, including several appointed by the disgraced former governor. It's political theater to make Rod look like an anti-corruption crusader. But really, it just gives him and his advisers an opportunity to hand out jobs to their allies. He even keeps some Republicans who are willing to play ball, like Stuart Levine. Stuart might look unassuming with his glasses, his receding hairline, and his dirty gray hair, but he's an absolute shark of a businessman. He's a millionaire who made a fortune working in healthcare and has been knighted by the king of Sweden. Early on, Rod decides to live at home

• 22:23Scaachi Koul?

  rather than move into the governor's mansion, almost four hours away. His north side Chicago home is a fortress-like red brick bungalow in an upper-middle-class neighborhood. The crown jewel of the home is Rod's neoclassical office. Its dark red walls are covered with portraits of Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton. There's a bust of Napoleon on his desk and a floor-to-ceiling library. The whole place is presidential, and there's plenty of room for a family to grow, which is perfect because Patty is pregnant with another daughter. Naturally, Rod's a work-from-home king. Instead of talking to his policy team about governing the state, he spends his days on the phone with his, quote, "kitchen cabinet of informal, unappointed advisers raising money." When he has to be in the governor's office, he apparently hides in the bathroom

• 23:08Scaachi Koul?

  to avoid boring meetings with his budget director. He'd rather be shopping, dropping thousands on fancy ties and Oxford suits. He carries multiple Paul Mitchell brushes wherever he goes. He calls those brushes "the football", like the suitcase with the nuclear code that travels with the president.

• 23:24Sarah Hagi?

  It's like he's playing with Legos or something.

• 23:27Scaachi Koul?

  It's Sims. He's like in The Sims.

• 23:29Sarah Hagi?

  It just doesn't make any sense.

• 23:31Scaachi Koul?

  Well, still, Rod is likable, and he ends his first year with a 55% approval rating. Not bad for a quiet quitting governor. But there's trouble brewing. By 2005, his relationship with his father-in-law is on the rocks. Dick is already frustrated because Rod pushed him aside for his own fundraisers and advisers. But the thing that really puts him over the edge is when Rod decides to close a landfill run by Dick's distant relative. It becomes an all-out war. Dick calls several local reporters to vent about his rogue son-in-law. He accuses Rod of destroying his family. He tells The Sun Times that he feels like a jilted spouse, saying, quote, "Chris Kelly is the new wife. I'm the old wife." And in that interview, he drops a bombshell.

• 24:15Scaachi Koul?

  He accuses Chris of illegally giving out taxpayer-funded jobs in exchange for donations to Rod's campaign. Chris threatens to sue, and Dick retracts his statement. Patty stands by her man, not her father.

• 24:28Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, OK, sure, whatever this drama is, go for it. But how insane is it to make that comparison, that Chris Kelly is the new wife, I'm the old wife, about your son-in-law?

• 24:40Scaachi Koul?

  It's like biblically gross.

• 24:42Sarah Hagi?

  It's so weird.

• 24:44Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, you're right. But when reporters ask Rod why he would risk ruining his relationship with his father-in-law, Rod twists the knife. He says the decision to close the landfill is the kind of action that separates the men from the boys. Listen to what he tells a reporter from NPR. Do you have the testicular virility to make a decision like that, knowing what's coming your way, and then stick to it? Rod has torched his relationship with a man who is both his father-in-law and a major source of political power. Rod is his own man now, and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

• 25:22Scaachi Koul?

  Stuart's got it made. Under Rod, he's been allowed to maintain his powerful positions on two major state boards. One of them controls which hospitals get built and by which companies. The other doles out and invests $30 billion in teachers' pension funds. The lifelong Republican might disagree with Rod about taxes, but he agrees with him on the power of money. But Stuart is corrupt. He uses his influence to help appoint his own contractors for big hospital projects. And once his contractors get the job, he siphons millions of dollars in kickbacks and finder's fees. This usually works out great, until it doesn't. When the CEO of a suburban hospital decides not to work with Stuart's chosen contractors, Stuart decides to apply a little pressure.

• 26:07Scaachi Koul?

  He orchestrates a run-in with the hospital CEO at a diner so that he can hype up his contractors. But he also has no idea that she's wearing a wire in her bra and working with the FBI. And because of this recorded conversation, which sure sounds a lot like a shakedown, the feds are now secretly tapping Stuart's phone. They record him talking explicitly about the frauds he's committing and gloating about getting away with them. Later that year, Stuart is approached by federal prosecutors, who convince him to resign from the board that controls the hospitals. And if the crimes weren't enough, it turns out Stuart has been living a double life. Despite his family man image, he's been flying to parties on private jets and going on vendors using meth, ketamine, and cocaine.

• 26:50Sarah Hagi?

  How does one find the time to do all this? Like, all this work for what? So you can fly around doing meth and ketamine?

• 26:59Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, when you put it like that, it sounds amazing.

• 27:02Sarah Hagi?

  But it's like, you can just do that? It's just so crazy. It's like, you're making your life so hard, dude.

• 27:09Scaachi Koul?

  I know, I know. Well, by the end of 2005, Stuart isn't the only one under federal investigation. So are Rod's other right-hand men, Tony and Chris. And it's all thanks to Stuart's tapped phone. Rumors swirl that Rod is under federal investigation too, but he's unfazed. He denies having anything to do with these scandals. Sarah, can you read what he says during a press conference in September 2005?

• 27:33Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, he says, "I have on my side the most powerful ally that exists, and that is the truth. And the truth is that we do things legally, we do things ethically, and we do things right."

• 27:45Scaachi Koul?

  When Stuart learns just how damning the tapes of him are, he realizes he can't play it cool anymore. So he starts wearing a wire and he turns on Tony and anyone else he can to help him get a lighter sentence. Rod's political career depends on a vast network of corruption in Illinois, maintained by a lot of guys who, like Stuart, decide to flip. Stuart has been at the center of this network for years, and if he's going to unravel, he'll take everyone down with him.

• 28:14Scaachi Koul?

  Even amid all of the scandal of his administration, Rod is poised to win reelection. And then comes another scandal. The Chicago Tribune reports that Patty has received $38,000 in real estate commissions from working with Tony and over $100,000 in commissions from a woman who had a lucrative state contract. None of this seems to faze Illinois voters. They reelect Rod in 2006. But there are signs that he's losing his edge. He takes the oath of office the following January to a half-empty arena. And even though it seems like Rod is already bored with the gig, he still has FOMO when Senator Barack Obama announces his run for president about a month later. Rod feels like it should have been him running for president, or at least making an announcement in front of all those adoring fans.

• 28:59Sarah Hagi?

  I mean, here's the thing. Rod, you easily can run for president.

• 29:03Scaachi Koul?

  He could. He just didn't.

• 29:04Sarah Hagi?

  He could. He actually could, and that's the scary part.

• 29:07Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah. While Rod has multiple swords hanging over him, in December 2007, his chief campaign fundraiser, Chris, is indicted on charges of tax evasion and misusing corporate funds to pay off gambling debts. Then, a month later, Rod's major donor, Tony, gets arrested for corruption and illegal kickbacks. And as a part of the case against Tony, the government gets another associate of Rod's to flip. To make matters worse, a new bill is set to grind Rod's entire operation to a halt. If passed, it would prevent any company that has a sizable contract with the state of Illinois from donating to the politicians who gave them the contract. These kinds of donations are Rod's bread and butter. He attempts to veto the bill, but the state senate overturns his veto, and it becomes law.

• 29:52Scaachi Koul?

  Rod doesn't know who he can trust anymore. So he brings on a new person to handle fundraising, his older brother, Rob, a banker and retired Army Lieutenant Colonel in Nashville. They'd grown apart, but Rod remembers how much his mother wanted them to be close. And with their parents dead, his brother is all he has left. He's gonna need all the help he can get because the FBI is closing in. The feds are looking for run-of-the-mill extortion, but they're about to find something even bigger. It's the fall of 2008, and Barack Obama is about to win the US presidential election. It'll be a historic moment for the country and a huge moment of pride for the city of Chicago. But Rod isn't looking to the future. He's thinking about the Senate seat Obama

• 30:36Scaachi Koul?

  will leave behind. As governor, Rod gets to decide who fills that Senate seat. So he starts testing the waters, finding out who wants it and what he could get for it, which is, of course, completely illegal. A month before the presidential election, investigators catch Rod's brother, Rob, on a damning phone call. In it, he explains that Illinois Representative Jesse Jackson Jr., the son of Reverend Jesse Jackson, is interested in Obama's Senate seat. So the feds immediately set up wiretaps on all of Rod's phones. And here's Rod on one of those calls.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  I got some lady calling my house for Jesse Jr. a little while ago. We were approached to pay to play. You know, he'd raised me 500 grand. A necessary came. And the other guy would raise a billion. So I made him a senator.

• 31:22Scaachi Koul?

  Like cartoonish. He's like Megamind.

• 31:27Sarah Hagi?

  Just let it all out on the phone. Like, this is the least ambiguous way to say you're doing something like that. And that's absolutely crazy. He said it over the phone. After all this has happened to people you know.

• 31:40Scaachi Koul?

  Well, on the tapes, Rod sounds desperate. Since he took office, he and Patty have spent roughly $400,000. More than their mortgage, just on clothing. He's broke, and he has no interest in finishing his term as governor. Can you read this transcript of one of Rod's calls from November?

• 31:57Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, he says, I gotta get moving. The whole world's passing me by, and I'm stuck in this fucking job as governor now. Oh, my God. That is so... You know what? This proves so much about why people get into politics.

• 32:10Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 32:11Sarah Hagi?

  It's like a game to them. See how easily they can get to the top. And then once they're there, they're like, no, this isn't actually fun. And having power sucks.

• 32:20Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it does. Well, Rod considers appointing Valerie Jarrett to Obama's old Senate seat. She's a longtime adviser to Obama, his preferred pick, and a Chicago politics mainstay. But Rod wants something in exchange, like a cabinet position or an ambassadorship, and Obama's camp is not interested in negotiating. In other recorded phone calls, Rod even tries to get Patty a job in exchange for the Senate seat. She's caught on the wiretap suggesting that Rod appoint himself, saying, quote,

• 32:51Sarah Hagi?

  "Um, hey, senators make 169 grand."

• 32:54Scaachi Koul?

  It gets so ridiculous that Rod is recorded wondering if he can appoint Oprah. And Rod is saying all the wrong things, too. Can you read this wiretap transcript where he cites his hilariously low approval rating?

• 33:07Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah. He goes, "Now is the time to put my fucking children and my wife first for a change. I fucking busted my ass. I gave your fucking baby health care. What do I get for that? Only 13% of you think I'm doing a good job, so fuck all of you." Okay, I understand the warning at the beginning of this episode now.

• 33:26Scaachi Koul?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:27Sarah Hagi?

  "I gave your fucking baby health care."

• 33:30Scaachi Koul?

  Hard to fight that one, huh?

• 33:31Sarah Hagi?

  Leave a baby out of this, bro.

• 33:33Scaachi Koul?

  Well, then Rod himself says the thing that investigators have been waiting to hear.

• 33:38Speaker 06

  "I've got this thing, and it's [bleep] golden. And I'm just not giving it up for [bleep] enough."

• 33:46Scaachi Koul?

  Before long, The Chicago Tribune breaks the story. The feds have been tapping Rod's phone. And now that their cover's blown, the FBI decides they already have enough evidence to arrest Rod.

• 34:01Scaachi Koul?

  At 6 a.m. on December 9, 2008, Rod's phone rings. The person on the phone says they're from the FBI, they're outside of his house, and they have a warrant for his arrest. At first, he thinks it's a joke, but when he realizes it's not a prank, he tells them that he needs to make some calls, and then he hangs up.

• 34:20Scaachi Koul?

  He's still on the phone with his lawyer when the FBI agents walk into the room. They tell him that he needs to get dressed. He puts on a navy blue tracksuit, maybe the one he would have worn for his morning jog, and a pair of sneakers. As they're getting ready to go, Rod turns to the agents to ask, "How does my hair look?" He leaves out the back door handcuffed. Patty is pissed. The feds, who are still tapping their phones, catch her on a call with Rod's assistant, saying, Husband away. I need to talk to fucking somebody. They took him in his running clothes. Rod is facing some pretty serious charges. He needs to prove his innocence. And now he's gonna have to run the campaign of his life.

• 35:06Sarah Hagi?

  On January 24th, 2023, in Ducksbury, Massachusetts, Patrick Clancy called 911. He had found his wife Lindsay badly injured and his three children dead and dying. What followed would become one of the most searing and complicated cases in recent memory, raising hard questions about motherhood, mental illness, and how far our justice system will go to understand what really happened. I'm Candace DeLong, host of the podcast Killer Psyche. In our latest episode, we take you inside the case of Lindsay Clancy, the postpartum psychosis defense, the courtroom battle, and the trial that just ended in a stunning mistrial.

• 35:50Sarah Hagi?

  Follow Killer Psyche wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Killer Psyche one week early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organized crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand-new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne? I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes.

• 36:47Speaker 07

  Goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne? Wherever you get your podcasts and you can hear the full six part investigation from the beginning ad free with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 37:14Scaachi Koul?

  A month after Rod's arrest, he stuns everyone by actually appointing someone to Obama's old Senate seat. It's Roland Burris, a longtime Chicago congressman who was caught on the wiretap discussing donation options with Rod's brother, Rob. The appointment does not look good. A few weeks later, Rod's officially impeached from office. He buys his daughters a poodle mix named Skittles to help them cope with the stress. Then Rod is officially hit with a 19 count federal indictment. It names him and a few other co-defendants, including Chris and Rod's brother, Rob. One of the 19 counts stems from a call where Rod was caught on tape asking about stopping millions of dollars in state funding for doctors to treat sick kids.

• 37:56Scaachi Koul?

  All because the CEO of a children's hospital didn't donate to his campaign. Patty isn't charged, but she's mentioned throughout the 75 page complaint for her real estate work with Tony, including getting 12 grand a month to do nothing.

• 38:11Sarah Hagi?

  Wow, Patty stays winning.

• 38:13Scaachi Koul?

  Icon.

• 38:14Sarah Hagi?

  She is not involved in this, got her bag.

• 38:18Scaachi Koul?

  God bless.

• 38:18Sarah Hagi?

  Good for her.

• 38:20Scaachi Koul?

  Well, with the trial approaching, Rod needs to prove his case to the public. So he hires a new attorney who's coming off of a high profile job defending R. Kelly on child pornography charges. And under the advice of his new lawyer, Rod begins a media blitz. He appears on any talk show that'll have him, even though his interviews keep making things worse, like when he went on The Late Show with David Letterman.

• 38:43Speaker 05

  Why exactly are you here? Honest to God.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  Well, you know, I've been wanting to be on your show in the worst way for the longest time. Well, you're on in the worst way, believe me.

• 38:54Sarah Hagi?

  He's doing everything he shouldn't be doing all the time.

• 38:58Scaachi Koul?

  That's a really good way of putting it. Well, he's asked by the hosts of The View to do a Richard Nixon impression. And of course, then he gets fired by Donald Trump on Celebrity Apprentice. Sarah, do you remember that?

• 39:09Speaker 03

  But it's slithering and it's raven cloth.

• 39:11Sarah Hagi?

  It's weirdly so endearing because it's like when your mom's trying to like

• 39:15Scaachi Koul?

  I know.

• 39:15Sarah Hagi?

  Talk about something you're into or one of your friends.

• 39:18Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, yeah, it feels like that. Well, Patty, meanwhile, appears on I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here. And she gets paid 80 grand a week and has to eat a tarantula.

• 39:29Sarah Hagi?

  Again, Patty stays winning. She's not a celebrity. And that show had actual D-list celebrities that you would know.

• 39:37Scaachi Koul?

  Patty is a celebrity to us because we love Patty. Well, Rod's trial starts in June 2010, and it's a media circus. Fans and reporters flock to see him. And just like he's done his whole life, he plays to the crowd outside of the courthouse. But inside, Rod never actually takes the stand. Two months later, the jury convicts Rod on one count of lying to the FBI. But they're deadlocked on the other counts, and the judge declares a mistrial. The prosecutors are committed to bringing Rod to justice. A second trial happens almost a year later. And the government's case is simpler this time. They drop the charges against Rod's brother and focus mostly on two things. Rod's attempt to sell the senate seat and his shaking down the children's hospital. This time, Rod takes the stand.

• 40:22Scaachi Koul?

  But it goes about as well as a stint on Celebrity Apprentice. The lead prosecutor's first question to Rod? You are a convicted liar, correct? And Rod says, yes.

• 40:34Scaachi Koul?

  Rod finally found something he can't talk his way out of. In June 2011, a jury finds him guilty of 17 felony counts, including every charge related to selling Obama's senate seat. He's sentenced to 14 years in prison, far more than anyone expected. Outside the courthouse, Rod appears in a black suit and a thick blue tie, visibly defeated. Patty's crying and looks like she's about to faint. Rod tells the news cameras.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  And this is also a time for Patty and me to get home so we can explain to our kids, our babies, Amy and Annie, what happened, what all this means, and where we're going from here. So we're gonna keep fighting on through this adversity and

• 41:15Scaachi Koul?

  See you soon. Rod has finally hit rock bottom. In March 2012, he reports to a federal correctional facility in Colorado. His signature hair immediately turns white. He'll be there for a long, long time.

• 41:31Scaachi Koul?

  It's been six years since Rod was locked up, and appeals haven't worked. Rod spends his days exercising and reading books, especially the Bible. He even starts a band. They're called the Jailhouse Rockers. Rod mostly uses his TV time to watch the Cubs games. But one night in 2018, he might have insisted on watching Fox News, where his wife is lobbying for his freedom. Patty goes on Tucker Carlson Tonight. She's a little nervous, but she nails Tucker's softball question. If you could speak to the president, what would be your pitch to pardoning your husband? You know, my husband is probably the only person in the entire history of the United States

• 42:08Sarah Hagi?

  who is serving any kind of sentence for simply asking for campaign contributions. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's it, Patty. That's why he's in prison. Simply asking for money. I think people do every single day.

• 42:22Scaachi Koul?

  Oh, and by the way, the president of the United States is Donald Trump, the guy who fired Rod on The Celebrity Apprentice. Patty makes several appearances on Fox over the next two years, and it seems like Trump is tuning in. In February 2020, he commutes Rod's prison sentence. He tells the press.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  I don't know him very well. I've met him a couple of times. He was on for a short while on The Apprentice years ago. He seemed like a very nice person. Don't know him.

• 42:50Sarah Hagi?

  I can't believe it worked.

• 42:52Scaachi Koul?

  It worked, man.

• 42:53Sarah Hagi?

  And it's like, that easy?

• 42:55Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah, it was, I guess. When Rod arrives back in Chicago, he served nearly eight years, just a little over half of his sentence.

• 43:05Scaachi Koul?

  He's welcomed by a small crowd of supporters and reporters outside of his house. He signs autographs, including a baseball. And even though his security rushes him to the front door of his home, he stops to greet the people and shake hands. As a free man, Rod doesn't avoid the spotlight. Though Illinois banned him from ever running for office again, he's got other outlets. He immediately joins Cameo in 2020 and starts selling personalized videos for $100 a pop.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  So I'm Rappin' Roddy, and I want to wish you a happy birthday. When I think about the day you were born, it ain't no day to mourn.

• 43:38Scaachi Koul?

  He stars in a 2020 Hulu docu-series about his life, his conviction, and his release. He does another media blitz where he appears on podcasts like Chapo Trap House and Vlad TV. And he's grown in at least one way since going on The Celebrity Apprentice. He has finally learned how to use a cellphone. He is a prolific tweeter who pays for a blue check and retweets people like Roger Stone and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. But in spring 2023, he jumps into another spotlight, performing rock and roll covers onstage at a northside club called Martyrs, if you could believe it. Rod's sitting in with a band called The Doors. It's not the Jailhouse Rockers, but they're tight and they draw a healthy crowd.

• 44:19Scaachi Koul?

  And onstage, he says, "I'm just a former governor of Illinois who went to jail, so don't be cruel." And then he sings the Elvis hit. He nails it. The audience's cellphone cameras record his dance moves. And when someone shouts from the crowd, "Sing Jailhouse Rock," Rod replies without missing a beat, "I'm sick of that. I lived it for eight years."

• 44:41Scaachi Koul?

  Well, you're probably wondering what happened to some of Rod's guys. Remember Stuart and his drug and sex parties? Well, his help in bringing down Tony, Chris, and more got him a much smaller five-and-a-half-year term compared to Rod's 14 years. Tony served seven for money laundering and wire fraud. But Chris had the worst luck. He pled guilty to tax evasion and was indicted again months later on corruption charges related to illegally trading state jobs for campaign donations. In September 2009, months before his prison term was set to begin, he kills himself. His last words to his girlfriend are, "It's my life. Tell them they won." Rod's brother, Rob, was never charged again and still maintains his innocence. He says so in a book he wrote that's critical of the federal government.

• 45:25Scaachi Koul?

  In the press cycle for the book, Rob says that he continues to be estranged from Rod. Dick, however, has since reconciled with Patty and Rod. As far as we can tell, the couple still live at the house on Chicago's North Side. And to this day, you can still see the former governor going on his daily jogs in the neighborhood.

• 45:45Scaachi Koul?

  Well, Sarah, is your faith in the American political system restored?

• 45:50Sarah Hagi?

  No, not at all. And like, I don't even know where Rod fell policy-wise or like what he cared about. At the end of the day, he just chose what benefited him the most. And I think a lot of politics is just that. It's not really believing in anything. It's just kind of like, how am I going to get to where I need to be? What's the easiest way?

• 46:11Scaachi Koul?

  Rod's an interesting scam artist because what he did was bordering on being legal, but then he went insane and he overdid it. And he had a good time all the way down. I don't think he ever cried or frowned.

• 46:23Sarah Hagi?

  No, he had an amazing time. Like, he lived large. His wife ended up being fine in the end. She wasn't implicated in any criminal sense. He went to prison for eight years, which is bad, but also he got so lucky because Donald Trump was president and he was like, "Yeah, sure, I'll let him go." That's nuts.

• 46:46Scaachi Koul?

  The other crazy part is you know that if Illinois had not banned him from running for office again, he would be on the campaign trail immediately.

• 46:54Sarah Hagi?

  Actually, I'm not 100% sure. It seems like he liked politics up to a certain point, but then he was like, oh my God, like he couldn't run away from certain responsibilities.

• 47:04Scaachi Koul?

  Mm-hmm.

• 47:05Sarah Hagi?

  And I think someone like him is different than Trump in the sense that he kind of didn't want to go so far because he was like, I'm not cut out for this level of responsibility. Like, I just wanted my bag, you know?

• 47:17Scaachi Koul?

  Yeah.

• 47:17Sarah Hagi?

  So I don't actually know if he would continue. It seems like even if he wasn't banned, I'm like, he learned his lesson.

• 47:21Scaachi Koul?

  I mean, maybe this is what he wanted. He's super famous now. He's got a little bit of name recognition. Maybe he'll end up doing like the reality show Circuit a little more. Wouldn't you watch Rod and Patty on like Marriage Boot Camp Celebrity Edition? I would watch that so much.

• 47:39Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, I really think he's meant to be famous. He just picked politics when he should have been like, I don't know, anything else.

• 47:47Scaachi Koul?

  He would have been one of those kids who are like doing pranks at the mall if he had been born a few decades later.

• 47:51Sarah Hagi?

  Yeah, he's kind of a victim of the times, you know?

• 47:54Scaachi Koul?

  That's true. I'm glad you found a way to make Rod Blagojevich the victim.

• 47:57Sarah Hagi?

  You know, if the internet existed, if YouTube existed, he would have just been pranking his friends and getting canceled for other reasons.

• 48:05Scaachi Koul?

  What a missed opportunity, Rod.

• 48:11Scaachi Koul?

  Follow Scamfluencers on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Scamfluencers ad-free by joining Audible.

• 48:20Scaachi Koul?

  This is Rod Blagojevich, All the Governor's Men. I'm Sachi Cole.

• 48:24Sarah Hagi?

  And I'm Sarah Haggie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at [email protected]. We use many sources in our research. Two that were particularly helpful were the books Golden: How Rod Blagojevich Talked Himself Out of the Governor's Office and Into Prison by Jeff Cohen and John Chase, and Natasha Korekki's Only in Chicago: How the Rod Blagojevich Scandal Engulfed Illinois and Enthralled the Nation.

• 48:50Scaachi Koul?

  Josh Terry, a Chicagoan, wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie. Our senior producer is Jen Swan. Our producer is John Reed. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Perry. Our story editor and producer is Sarah Enney. Eric Thurm is our story editor. Sound design is by James Morgan. Fact checking by Will Tavlin. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scoff Alaskas for Frieze on Sync. Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock. Our managing producer is Matt Gant and our senior managing producer is Ryan Lor. Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Janine Cornolo, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer Beckman, and Marshall Louie. For Wondery.

• 49:46Speaker 05

  There are books that change how you see the world. And there are books that change how you see yourself. In a new podcast series, A Great Book with Barack Obama, President Obama sits down with a series of surprising and sharp guests to explore six books that have shaped his life and perspective on the world. From Song of Solomon and the Fire Next Time, to All the Pretty Horses and Gilead, the president is joined by guests like Tom Hanks and Ta-Nehisi Coates to reflect on how these timeless stories shaped his thinking on everything from fatherhood to leadership and discover together what they tell us about the world we live in and the world we want to create.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of A Great Book with Barack Obama ad-free right now plus access each audiobook discussed in the series. Download the Audible app today.