SC EP:1297 Doctors Encounter Sasquatch

The SquatchDocs are Dr. Curtis Miller and Dr. David Fuller, two longtime friends who are both physicians and are coming on to share their Sasquatch encounters and wilderness investigations. Their investigations and stories have featured several locations and alleged encounters: - Siskiyou wilderness in California: Reports of unusual structures, large footprints, strange vocalizations, and objects being thrown near their campsite. - Gypsy Meadows, Washington: Expeditions involving reported tracks, tree structures, nighttime sounds, and possible activity around their camp. - Salmo-Priest wilderness in northeastern Washington: An area associated with their reports of unusual encounters and unexplained activity.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Wes Germer?

  It almost sounds like that knock was trying to impress that, uh, that female voice.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelled me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach.

• 0:58Speaker 02

  I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears.

• 1:34Speaker 03

  911, what are you reporting?

• 1:36Speaker 04

  Jesus Christ, you better, Karen, see him?

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Hello?

• 1:40Speaker 04

  Get somebody out here.

• 1:42Speaker 03

  What's going on now, sir?

• 1:42Speaker 04

  That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

• 1:46Speaker 03

  Do you see him now, sir?

• 1:47Speaker 04

  Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh.

• 1:55Speaker 05

  This is Jason from Eastern Idaho. You're listening to my favorite broadcast, Sasquatch Chronicles.

• 2:31Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here. You know, I've been looking into these data centers for AI and something isn't quite right with those data centers. I can't quite put my finger on it, you know, except for the fact that they use a huge amount of electricity. They seem to consume most of the water around them. They change local communities, increase pollution. Most of the economic benefits don't match the costs and I could do a whole nother show on updated AI and how far it's gotten just in the last two years. It's kind of scary.

• 3:11Wes Germer?

  It's actually really scary, but I came across this guy on, I think this was actually on Facebook and he goes under Dreadful Inc. Take a listen to this.

• 3:23Speaker 06

  Last night a caller told me mass chaos broke out in their town after the low hum that their data center was producing began pulsating and sending horrific messages to everyone. So wait until you hear the actual recording. So Ben said the hum that the data center produced when it went live was extremely annoying, but after a week or so, everybody basically became earblind to it. But that was until the hum started pulsating. Now, when the pulsating began, Ben started hearing crazy voices in his head telling him to do some wicked things. And after holding this burden so close to his chest, he finally came clean to his wife, terrified that he was going to eventually do something to his family that he would gravely regret. Now, when Ben told his wife what he had been experiencing, the voices he had been hearing,

• 4:08Speaker 06

  her jaw just dropped because she had been hearing the same voices with the same twisted messages. So let's fast forward two weeks to when things get really ugly. So Ben, his wife and his two kids go out to dinner when suddenly the pulse from the data center changes and out of nowhere, Ben gets this vile urge to do terrible, terrible things to his wife and his kids. Then suddenly his wife just bursts out into tears and seconds later, everyone in the restaurant is sobbing uncontrollably. Then fights start breaking out. Now immediately Ben grabs his wife and kids and ushers them out of the door as fast as he can. And as soon as they got home, Ben told his wife to take the kids, drive as far out of

• 4:49Speaker 06

  town as they could, find a hotel and just let him know where they were staying. But Ben's had something he needed to do. So once they left, Ben drove to the fence of the data center so he could record this pulsating hum. So what I'm about to show you is what Ben recorded and then I'm going to show you what that same low pitch hum sounds like when its pitch has been adjusted. So get ready for this. This is the original.

• 5:18Speaker 06

  So that's the original. Now I'm going to play the pitch adjusted one and I'm going to play it twice just in case you don't hear what I think it's saying. So here we go.

• 5:32Speaker 06

  Now, I don't know if you heard it, but to me it sounds like you all will die, the end is near and it just repeats it. Listen.

• 5:45Speaker 06

  So if they are truly poisoning our minds with these crazy frequencies, then all hope is lost. And as always, I'm keeping my ear to the ground on this one. Follow for more information and I will keep you updated when I know.

• 5:58Wes Germer?

  And I take a lot of this stuff with a grain of salt, but in this case, he's not wrong with the sound of those data centers. Actually pulled some audio and I was messing, tweaking with the pitch and, eh, you know, it's, I kind of got the same result, about the most terrifying thing I've ever heard. Thought I'd share it with you guys. Tonight we'll be chatting with Curtis and David and they're two doctors that actually went out and started looking for Bigfoot and they captured some really cool audio. They've come back with some really good evidence and I'll be posting that throughout the show.

• 6:41Wes Germer?

  But they'll be coming on and sharing their experiences, how they got started and a lot of the activity that they've had over the years. And I'll let the guys go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected] and if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Curtis to the show. Curtis, thanks for coming on.

• 7:18Speaker 07

  Thank you for having us.

• 7:20Wes Germer?

  Yeah, we also have David. David, thank you for being here.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  Hey, thanks for having us, Wes.

• 7:26Wes Germer?

  Appreciate you guys being here and for the audience, if you want to go and check them out on Instagram and on Facebook, they're under Sasquatch Docs and the guys have been posting a lot of their audio and just different things that they've captured since looking for these creatures. If you would, guys, what got your interest? I'm fascinated the fact that both of you guys are medical doctors and now you're out looking for Bigfoot. What got you interested in looking for this creature?

• 7:57Speaker 07

  Well, David and I have been lifelong friends. We've probably known each other since we were eight or 10 years old. David has always had an interest in Native American culture. When we were kids, he was reading books and watching shows, whatever he could find on Native American lore. And, and he had some interest in Bigfoot just because of that. I was much less into Bigfoot. I mean, I knew Patterson Gimlin and, uh, you know, saw Bigfoot on, uh, you know, some shows that were kind of cheesy and stuff like that, but I really did not have much interest in it.

• 8:39Speaker 07

  And then on David's 50th birthday, um, I was over at his house and happened to be scrolling through his DVR while he was taking a shower and I noticed all of the videos he had that he had saved from shows on TV. And so we started talking about it and probably six months after that, I happened to go to Nepal. We were doing the Everest Base Camp Trek and there's a little town on the Everest Base Camp Trek called Pangboche, oh, actually Tangboche. And anyway, there's a, no, it is Pangboche. Sorry about that. There is a monastery there where they have the skull and a hand, which they say are

• 9:24Speaker 07

  from a yeti and we happened to see that. And we were, we're the kind of friends who tried to get together as frequently as we could. Usually it was a guys trip where we'd go to a sporting event or go play golf or something like that. But he called me up after we got back and I had seen this and I said, well, why don't we see if we can go find Bigfoot? And so David started looking for, for things. So my interest peaked after seeing that skull. Now you can debate whether that skull and that hand are real and there's a lot of debate online, but anyway, they sure believed that that was a yeti and it just, it piqued my interest a little bit that the possibility of something like Bigfoot could be out there.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, like Curtis said, uh, I did Native American history and stuff, and I knew that every tribe has a name for Sasquatch. And so I've always had kind of a belief interest of been interested in tracking and Native American history and things. So when Curtis said, hey, let's go find Bigfoot, I was like, okay, that's good. So I started doing research and being this is our first time, we called this Bigfooting, but it was more like a camping backpacking trip with two buddies, you know, have fun. We had no idea what we're getting into, but we're gonna go find Bigfoot. So I said, why don't we go? We looked around in California, close by to where I'm living in Central Valley. Um, Siskiyou National Forest seemed to have the most views and it's, you know, close up

• 10:52Speaker 04

  to Willow Creek and all that history. So we said, why don't we go there? So then I started doing research into trails and wilderness and things like that. Found a good spot that looked like it on the Kelsey or Smith River on the Kels- South Kelsey Trail. And I said, let's go there. So we packed it up and went on up and we really had no idea what we were getting into, but we were going finding Bigfoot with my buddy.

• 11:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, we, we were totally unprepared and like David said, we were planning on just camping and um, backpacking. And then things started happening and you know, before we even got there on our drive up, you know, we kind of, David said, well, what's, what's your belief in Bigfoot? I said, well, it's possible, but I still was pretty much a skeptic. And I think David was more on the probable side of things. Uh, but when, once we got there, we uh, set up camp on the side of a creek and not much happened the first couple of days. And then David was looking at his online maps and he realized that there was a small uh, trail

• 12:03Speaker 07

  across the creek and, and one of the days he said, hey, let's just cross the creek and, and see what we can find. And uh, again, we didn't expect to find hardly anything. And I think, you know, one of the first things we found um, was this primitive shelter that was way off trail. It was probably about a hundred yards off trail. We just, David found a little game trail and we sort of took it off the main trail. And we were just following this game trail back and we came across what I can only describe looking like an igloo.

• 12:42Speaker 07

  And it was ma- made of woven branches. Uh, the branches were not uh, sawed off or cut with an axe. They had been broken. And I would say it was probably about the size of a three or four person uh, backpacking tent. It was about maybe three feet high, maybe eight feet long and six feet wide. And, and something had obviously slept in there. And our first thought was, this has got to be human, you know, someone's was just out here. But then we started looking around and there was no, no trash, no, you know, even, even if humans are trying to be careful, they leave

• 13:22Speaker 07

  something behind. And then we realized there was also no fire pit. And uh, this was in June of 2022. And I would say the, the lows were in the low 40s. So it was pretty cold out at night. And then we also started looking around the, the primitive shelter. And um, we found about six or eight huge piles of what looked like human scat, but only what I could say is, was bigger, both in diameter and in length. And they were sort of placed every 50 or 60 feet around the shelter. It was almost like a, a boundary mark. So that was kind of one of the first things that uh, that we found. And to show you how unprepared

• 14:06Speaker 07

  we were and rookies in this, we have lost the SD card of all the pictures we took of that. So we have no proof that we, we found this, this structure. Uh, but anyway, that started to, you know, why, if it was a human that made that shelter, why were there no other signs that humans had been there? It's not saying it couldn't have been a human-made shelter, but again, all the branches were broken. They were not sawed or cut. So that was kind of one of the first things we found.

• 14:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, we walked up a trail. We found this 30 foot long tree. It was about six inches in diameter and it's just almost like floating in the air. And it was wrapped with vines that were twisted, holding it up. And we go, that did look strange. And we look around, you could see the break in the, in the bottom of the tree. And, but we couldn't find a stump anywhere for it. We looked around within 30 feet of it. There was no stump where that came from. And then we looked and right next to it was a game trail. So I was kind of, well, that's strange. I don't know how this was made, but something wrapped this tree and held, it's held up by these branches that are wrapped by another tree. Could it happen

• 15:26Speaker 04

  naturally? Maybe, but it's coincidental that it was right by a game trail. We had other, you know, some tree breaks and stuff that were out of reach of us and that looked, hey, that was a tree break. You know, what made it, didn't know. Um, but on the, one of the days we're walking back, so this is about two miles further in, into the wilderness from where our camp was. We're walking back and I'm always looking for track traps. And I saw about 30 yards off the trail behind some bush. It looked like wet area. And I said, well, let's go over there and you know, see if we can find out what's walking around

• 16:05Speaker 04

  here. So we go over there and we walk around, you can walk around this wet, so like a marsh. And you could go to the left 10 feet and walk around it or to the right 10 yards and walk around it. But right going right through the middle of it, we saw three tracks going through it. And they were right through the middle of the marsh. They were about six, they were 16 inches long and wider than our foot. I think we sent you some of those pictures. And the first step would have been a left foot. The next one wasn't very far, second foot, but the third step was 48 inches past the second step, which was, that was a big

• 16:48Speaker 04

  step. And you can tell with tracking on whether something is running or just casually walking or jumping, depending on the pressure releases that you see in there. And there was no sliding, there was no slippage, there was no splatter, you know, it was nothing. So just a casual walk and a 48 inch step is huge. And Curtis can talk about that later on the work ethic side. But that, for us at that time, it was, man, this is huge. It's twice as wide as our foot, 16 inches long. We both wear size 13, so we were pretty impressed by that. And so we came back the next day to that. And what was interesting was is that third step

• 17:28Speaker 04

  in the middle of the marsh had disappeared. And so we go, this is fresh. So within 24 hours, one of these in this wet marsh had just got reabsorbed by the marsh and it was gone. So we knew something had walked through there within a 24 hour period of time that we'd been there. And we had trail cams. We knew that no one else was around there. We saw one guy the whole time we were in there the whole week and we knew when he came in, we knew when he left. But he didn't go in that area. And so that was kind of our first tracks of type things that we did, hey, something is in here.

• 18:02Speaker 07

  And that second day that we went back, we noticed that those tracks were leading towards um, sort of the main trail that we had followed back to that area that we had crossed the creek and got onto. And we started looking and I noticed that just on the opposite side of where whatever made those tracks came out onto the main trail, there was this about four inch diameter log. It looked like the base of a tree that had been broken off. And it was under the, sort of the canopy of a redwood. And I just looked at it, it looked a little strange because the base was not wider than the, than the, the top.

• 18:47Speaker 07

  Uh, I'm not saying it was an upside down log or anything like that, but it was just, just a consistently thick log and there were no apparent roots. And I walked over and grabbed it and started to move it and realized that there were no roots. And we eventually, I think we have a video somewhere, you could always find it, but I, I pulled it out and this was probably about three feet long, three, three and a half feet long, had been jammed in the ground just off of the trail. And it was probably in the ground about six inches. And uh, at least the time of year we were there, it was pretty hard ground. That's not to say it couldn't have been placed when the, the ground was softer and wet, but,

• 19:30Speaker 07

  but you know, it's kind of the, the story you've heard of, of things being jammed in the ground as a marker. And so again, I'm not saying Bigfoot did that, but all these things just sort of started happening while we were there. And then our very last morning, uh, we got up about six in the morning to, to get out of there because we had to hike back six miles before we ever got to our car. I started making coffee before we packed that camp and we had set up our little camp stove underneath the canopy of a redwood tree. And all of a sudden a pine cone landed by my foot. Okay. I didn't think much of it

• 20:13Speaker 07

  because I'm under the canopy of a redwood tree. And then about five seconds later, another one landed by my foot. And David and I are both under this tree and we're looking up to see, you know, if there's maybe a squirrel up there and we didn't see anything. But again, we didn't think any of it. And while the water was boiling, I kind of moved about 10 feet away and sat down in one of our camp chairs. And again, within about 10 seconds of me sitting down, two pine cones landed by my feet. And David was standing up and, and he sort of backed out to look into the tree to see if there was, you know, a squirrel or something up in the tree dropping pine cones on us. And uh, he could tell you what, what happened to him.

• 20:58Speaker 04

  Well, I, I noticed the first two, we didn't, again, we didn't think any of it were under a tree and, but when it happened so quickly, like four pine cones within 30 seconds landing by Curtis, and we're looking up and when it happened again, and I couldn't see anything, I moved out from under the canopy. I moved back about 20 feet. And I was up and under open sky, looking up, trying to see up in the tree if I could find some sniper squirrel. All of a sudden, a pine cone lands by my foot. And then another pine cone lands on my foot. And then a third one. And at that time, all Curtis stood up and we both turned and looked up the ridge that was behind our camp. We kind of figured that's the only place they could be

• 21:40Speaker 04

  coming from. And that's when they stopped. But we started looking at these pine cones and at least three of them were green pine cones. And there was no wind, no nothing or anything. We got a picture of one of those. We didn't keep it or save it for DNA or anything like that. We had no idea what to do with it, but figured taking a picture of it. But at that point, we were like, hold it, something's throwing pine cones at us. Well, we had packed up and we took off and we didn't pass anybody until we got to about a mile and a half from our car. And there was people coming in. So there was no one camping out there. We had no one in our game cameras that we had put up. So something had thrown pine cones at us on that trip. So that

• 22:19Speaker 04

  was kind of the, the last thing that we had happened in August of 22 on that South Kelsey Trail.

• 22:27Wes Germer?

  Yeah, very interesting. First trip. Kind of going back to the footprints that you guys found that the tracks, what stood out to you the most when you were looking at them?

• 22:39Speaker 07

  Well, as far as the shape, it looked like a human shaped foot. I think the two things that that made it unique were its size, being roughly 16 or 16 and a half inches. And it looked like a barefoot. There were one or two of them that we could see toes. So to put that in perspective, right now, in, in the world, there is not a known person who has a 16 and a half inch barefoot. I think the, the biggest one on record right now is 15.97 inches or something

• 23:19Speaker 07

  like that. I'm a little bit of a math nerd, so I can, I can remember numbers. So there's not even a human alive that, that we know of that has a 16 and a half inch foot. And there's actually a, a ratio that you can use called the Topinard Index. I'm probably geeking people out, but, but basically to get the height of a human, if you know their foot size, barefoot size, you can pretty much estimate how tall that person is. And it's a ratio, you divide the, the length of the foot by 0.15 and 16 and a half inches. I

• 24:04Speaker 07

  could do it right now, but it's probably close to nine feet if that's a person. So that was one thing. And the other thing was the, the one step that David described as being 48 inches. The normal human's step length minus, I'm 6'2", 6'1", 6'2", David, 6'4". My normal step length is probably 31 inches. David's a better, much better tracker than I am. He could talk about, you know, if something had to hop or jump, I think you see explosions when that happens in, in the track. And I don't think we saw any on that second one. It was almost like it, like David said, there was one right on the edge, a second one where

• 24:48Speaker 07

  it kind of balanced itself. And then a third one, it was almost as if it realized that, okay, I can take a regular step. I don't think David thought that, that one that was 48 inches distant was a, a running or jumping step by any means. So again, to put that in perspective, there's another mathematical index. If you know a normal walking step length of a person, you can estimate their size. You know, there's just a simple mathematic ratio. And again, if that was a human making those steps, it would have to be roughly nine feet tall to do that. Now, I'm not saying, you know, I know Bigfoot anatomy by any means, I don't.

• 25:30Speaker 07

  But if, if a normal human had a 16 and a half inch step and had a 48 inch step, excuse me, a 16 and a half inch foot length and a 48 inch step, it probably have to be about nine and a half feet tall. So I could tell you that wasn't a human that made those steps, but yet it had a human shaped foot.

• 25:54Wes Germer?

  Yeah, you know, one last comment I'll say before we move on to what happened at Gypsy Meadows here in Washington. When you look at their tracks, especially when they step in mud or a really good substrate, where it really reveals a foot, it looks human, but I always called the Fred Flintstone foot. They almost kind of have a boxy foot, not like a normal human. I mean, it looks human like, but there's just more of a boxy look to it. And I guess the only way I can put it is, I like Fred Flintstone's foot.

• 26:29Speaker 07

  Well, that's, that's sort of what I meant by the size. I didn't talk about the width. You know, David said, you know, there are pictures of my foot and, and I, I wear a size 13 shoe. And I think, I think my shoe is about 12 and a half inches long and about three and a half inch, three and a half to four inches wide. This thing was, you know, probably 50 to 80% wider than my foot. And, you know, four, three or four inches longer than my, than my shoe was. So definitely part of the size was that boxy shape. It was definitely much wider than even my foot inside of a shoe.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  I think that, you know, you have to combine the, being able to read a track and looking at, you know, like your pressure releases and your discs and your waves in this step to see how fast this thing is walking. And if it's jogging or a normal walk or slow trot or things like that, you can see that in a track. And when you don't see that, you know that it's going slow. You know, you know, it's just a slow walk. If you're going to see a jump or a push off, you're going to see a deep dig out and pressure blowout explosion off the back, you know, when someone does that. And this was not doing that. And same goes for a lot of the other things we're going to talk about later. But you have to combine

• 27:53Speaker 04

  that knowledge of what you can read out of a track that I call a life, the life in a track, that's explaining things first. And then you combine that with orthopedics, you know, knowledge, sports medicine, things like that.

• 28:08Speaker 07

  Well, and, and not only just the foot size, but also, you know, getting back to the, if that was a human, they'd be over nine feet tall. There aren't any humans currently in the world over nine feet tall. So while I'm using human, human measurements here to make an estimation of the size, I'm basing it on human record. So we don't have a human that we know of that has a 16 and a half inch foot on record right now. And there are no humans, I think the tallest human right now is eight feet 10 inches. So, you know, could a human have made those? No. And, and that's sort of what then piqued our interest after

• 28:51Speaker 07

  this first trip where we sort of went out saying we're going to find Bigfoot, but we really never expected to find anything. And now we're finding things that we as physicians cannot explain being human. So that really sort of got us down, going down the rabbit hole into this whole subject, finding those steps and then having pine cones thrown at us in the middle of nowhere.

• 29:18Wes Germer?

  Well, take me to Gypsy Meadows here in Washington State. Was this the following year that you guys went there?

• 29:26Speaker 04

  We, the next, the next trip we took was in August of 24. We actually missed the next year. We actually went into Idaho, which we did find a track in Idaho, which we weren't even looking for. But in 24, we decided, hey, let's go do this again. And then Curtis started going through some YouTube videos. And I think he found Will Olmer's channel, Grassman 58. And he lives up in that area. So he called up the ranger station up there and said, hey, where can we come up there? We have some water and stuff. And the ranger actually said, hey, go to Gypsy Meadows. So that's how we got up to Gypsy Meadows area.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  Yeah. So David's right. I mean, I started looking at a million videos. I semi-retired at the end of 23. So I then had time to look at, at videos and I found Will's and a few little stories about Gypsy Meadows that we found. But we wanted to get as far away from population as possible, sort of like our California trip. We were out in the wilderness there. And Gypsy Meadows is right, literally on the, the border of the Salmo Priest Wilderness. So it's sort of the last official campground before you are in the wilderness. And the wilderness is basically just across the creek. So that's sort of why we chose Gypsy Meadows.

• 30:47Speaker 07

  And we, we kind of pulled into there. And one of the first things I did was I wanted to blow up my air mattress. I have this little air pump that makes a horrific little wind. And while that was going, blowing up my air mattress, we noticed that there was a bard owl just going crazy across the creek. And I'm not saying it couldn't have been a bard owl, but it sort of has some significance later. And it would not stop. It probably went for the whole two or three minutes it took me to blow up my air mattress. And then as soon as I stopped my air mattress, you know, it stopped as well. And I think it

• 31:29Speaker 07

  was the second night we were there and we don't have any audio of this, you know, we, we are, this is our second trip. We're still learning. And we, we are still very much rookies. Even now, after seven or eight trips, we're still learning what, what to do and what not to do. But we hadn't placed out audio. And the second night,

• 31:53Speaker 07

  Uh, we went to bed probably about ten thirty or so. And I just could not sleep and about eleven, it sounded like that same owl was just going crazy across the creek. And it went for probably two minutes and it would just would not stop. I mean, it would do the, what's, you know, the typical nine hoot barred owl sound. And then it would wait like five or 10 seconds for something to respond and nothing would respond. It just kept doing it, doing it, doing it. And then all of a sudden, after two or three minutes, I heard two or three whoops from that area. Now, whether it was the same thing, or I am mimicking an owl and then whooping, or whether it was just using the owl

• 32:37Speaker 07

  to mask its sounds, I have no idea. But that caught my attention and I, I kind of, I was getting ready to unzip my tent to get David awake in his tent. And all of a sudden I heard two or three calls, uh, two calls, uh, probably about a quarter mile away, uh, from that, I, in different directions. And then it went quiet. And so by the time I was going to get David up, everything was quiet. And so I kind of got myself back into the tent and the same exact thing happened about an hour later. And it went for two minutes and then all of a sudden two whoops. And then two, uh, responses from different directions.

• 33:19Speaker 07

  And the next thing I knew, I must have fallen asleep, but David woke me up probably, you know, two thirty or so in the morning and he had heard something.

• 33:28Speaker 04

  So we, we got to bed. I didn't hear, I, I have bad hearing. So I didn't hear the, what Curtis had heard at twelve or, you know, one o'clock. But all of a sudden I woke up to this loud hooting going on towards where the creek is. Now there's a, the meadow is long and we were at one end and it's about a hundred and fifty yards to the other end. And there's a, where the drive's up to the creek. And all of a sudden it's just got loud and I knew it was on the ground. And it went, it started moving and it was moving fast. And some, two guys had driven in that evening and were camping down in the campsite down there. And

• 34:10Speaker 04

  they just had pitched their tent and got in there and I go, man, this thing is going right through their camp. And it was like hoot, hoot, hoot. And when they got to in the angle of where it was towards their camp, all of a sudden it changed to what I call, the only thing I described is like Sierra sounds and it was like hoot, hoot, and then a rat, rat, rat, rat, whoa. And they were just angry. And then they went past where the camp was and it changed back to these hoots and they went on up the ridge. And I got up and I said, Curtis, did you hear that? And he got out and goes, no, I didn't. And we got up and these two guys started crawling out of their tent. We could see their flashlights and stuff going around, see what was going on. So that was really strange. It was a combination of hooting with

• 34:54Speaker 04

  these Sierra sounds, voices that were arguing each other and it sounded like three different ones that were going through the camp. And so then Curtis went and had talked to them the next day.

• 35:06Speaker 07

  Yeah. So I, I kind of, I wasn't planning on necessarily talking to him, but I ran into the guy going to the bathroom and, uh, I, I said, you know, it's kind of a, it was a crazy night, wasn't it? And he, he said, yeah, what was that? And I was kind of playing dumb. I, I said, I, I don't know. And he said, there was a pack of them. And one of them may have been in the tree right above my tent. And he said, and they were barking like dogs or, or, no, they were barking. That's what he said. And I, I said, you mean like a dog? And he said, well, not really. And he said, I don't know really how to explain it, but they were, they were, you know, going at each other.

• 35:49Speaker 07

  And I said, have you, what do you think of Bigfoot? And he kind of snickered. And then I said, have you ever heard of the Sierra sounds? And he said, no. And he kind of just cut the conversation off and he, he walked back to his camp and, um, they packed up and left. Uh, but that's basically all he told me is it sounded like a pack of them. One might've been in the tree above him. It's, they were going at each other while they were kind of running through his camp. And so both he and David had told me that the thing seemed to, uh, you know, after it left his camp, kind of run up this ridge. And I went out to the main road and I kind of found where they had, had come out of the,

• 36:34Speaker 07

  um, and come out of the, the forest, crossed the main road and had gone up this forty-five degree embankment. You could just see the ground chewed up there. Uh, it wasn't a game trail, but it was sort of the only area uh, on that ridge that was open where something could go through without having to climb through a bunch of brush. And, uh, I went back and, and David was looking at some of the tracks and he, we kind of followed him because he's, he's pretty decent at tracking.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  Uh, I'd gotten up and Curtis had been gone walking. So I started walking through the meadow on the other side from where the camp was. And then Curtis showed up and said, well, let's follow this. There was beat down grass. You couldn't see a lot of trap, rural footprints or anything. Instead of beat down grass over here. So let's follow this. Ended up going into a pretty large game trail that went up the ridge. And we followed it all the way up and we end up coming up on this perfect X structure. And I sent you a picture of that. It's these two trees and

• 37:46Speaker 04

  how they got to be where they are, I have no idea because they went through, they went through two other trees. It had to be bent and twisted. And one of them, you could see where the whole tree was rotated and twisted in order to fit over the other one. And so the bottom of the tree was, you could see the bark was twisted on it. And it was still in the ground. The other one had to rip, the structure had come up, but it had been pushed through a tree and then pushed over to get behind another tree. But it was a perfect X structure. It was right by this big game trail, right before the road. And so as we go up on the road, we come out right to the place where Curtis had marked on the road where he thought these things had come across.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  Um, we did find a wet footprint on the road that where these things had crossed. There was a, measured out to be eighteen inches. I think I sent you a picture of that. And one with my foot beside it, but it was wide, you know, at least, you know, six and a half inches wide and eighteen inches long, how that wet track. And it was only one track in the middle of the road. And so something had took in one step and then crossed the road. Um, because we didn't see anything else.

• 38:57Speaker 07

  Talking about audio, we, we really don't have a ton of audio, if, if any at all, from that first trip. We're, we, uh, didn't have any audio out unfortunately for those Sierra sounds.

• 39:10Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I know with, uh, additional trips, you, you did capture a lot of audio, maybe not on this first night. And I'll play that here in a moment. Can I ask both of you, what do you think was actually going on that night?

• 39:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. My impression from what I was hearing was something had, a group of them had come across the creek and were traveling to go there. And I think when they finally ran into the camp, they got mad and got angry. And basically we're, maybe they were telling each other, hey, get out of here, whatever they're going to do. But it definitely, the, the vocals that they were doing changed when they got in line, what I thought was the camp, the angle where the camp, and then it went back to the old vocals when they got past the camp.

• 39:57Speaker 07

  And then, you know, you asked what they were doing. Both the beginning where they came across the creek and where they went up this ridge. In subsequent years, we had other things happen at both those exact points. So while there is a campsite there,

• 40:17Speaker 07

  what, this may be some kind of, you know, thoroughfare for them. I, I don't know, but we had, have in subsequent years found things up that ridge. And we've had encounters basically right where they, they would have crossed that creek to get into that campsite. So it may be some kind of thoroughfare for them. And like David said, maybe they were surprised because those guys had not set up a campfire. Uh, they literally pulled in at dark and just kind of pitched a tent and went to sleep. So whether they were surprised that they were there or not, I don't know. But we've had other things happen in that exact same campsite.

• 41:00Speaker 04

  The first, I mean, this, again, this was our second trip, so we had no clue what was really going on. And so initially we thought they were owls. But when I'm hearing owls and then they changed to like arguing Sierra sound voices and then back to owls, that's telling me that the, whatever made that sound was not, not an owl at that time. And just in the, in the three or four other trips we've made there, we've also seen just other things happen around when we get owl hoots and things start happening with it. Um, so.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  I'm sure there are owls. We've seen barred owls there. We've heard barred owls. The spectrograms, when we look on the audios, that sometimes they're different. And sometimes the hoots turn, or the owl hoots turn into whoops at the end of it. So it just changes sometimes when they're, when we hear it.

• 42:00Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's interesting about that owl call. And then you guys hearing the Sierra, what sound like that Sierra gibberish afterwards. You know, we talk a lot about their behavior. I just had a witness on last weekend. And he was talking about it sounded like two owls having a conversation as they walked out of camp. And I don't know if they do the owl call to kind of fool humans. If they're doing it to fool us, and then they come across humans and they're cussing back and forth, or whatever they're doing with that gibberish. Kind of shows a lack of patience and discipline on their part.

• 42:39Speaker 07

  Well, David had something happen. Just, I think it was either the next night or two nights later. There was something right outside his tent.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that really changed my opinion on what these were owls or not. Because I got woken up around 1:30 or 2:00 and there was the vol- there was like an owl, it was like a barred owl hoot. So you can describe whoo, whoo, whoo. But it, the volume of the air that was being moved in that hoot was tremendous. And it was loud. And it was like just 10 feet. It felt like it was only 10 feet away from my tent. And there's a horse, metal horse. Where you tie horses up there. And that's where I thought it was. And at that point, I was like, okay, this thing was loud and it's right here. What do I do?

• 43:33Speaker 04

  Am I, do I turn on the light? Do I get out? Do I, I, you know, trying to figure out what I could do. And then the thing moved across the meadow about 30 yards. Continuing that loud hoot. And then it, but it was on the ground. And then moved further out towards an area that we called the gifting area. And I could hear it move that whole direction with it. But I didn't hear wings flying. I didn't hear, you know, flapping or anything like that. But it just, I could tell the sound was moving on the ground across the meadow. And then into the tree line, and then moving off to the right of the meadow. At that point. So at that point, I was like, that was not an owl. The volume of that air moving was not a small owl.

• 44:17Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's the amplitude. That's why people always say it was a thousand pound owl. Now you guys come up to this X structure. And I've seen them. I'm not sure why they make them. What was your impression when you saw that X structure? I mean, why do you think they would even bother making something like that?

• 44:37Speaker 04

  It, it seems to, at least I think our opinion is that when you look, go up on the road, to cross the road and go up onto the ridge. You look towards the right and it's just a wall of just a wall of trees. And you look to the left and it's a wall of trees. And this is for like a quarter mile in either direction. But right where that X structure is and where that game trail comes up there, where Curtis saw the chewed up dirt is this probably 20 foot wide strip of grass that goes across and up the ridge into the back behind there. Now, once you get past that wall, it opens up. Now there's this down trees and all this other stuff back there, the

• 45:22Speaker 04

  further story later on about what you see behind Curtis right now, but

• 45:27Speaker 04

  this grass gets you into that area. And so the only thing we could figure was this was marking an area for people crossing across the meadow. Saying, hey, here's where you need to go in order to get across to this opening. Through this wall of trees on the other side of the road. Cause it's directly across it. Probably the best prints that we found was at the end of that trip, the last day, I said, I gotta go up to that wet area. A marsh that was above the ridge behind our camp. And we went up there. And the day before, we had heard some hooting and stuff and grabbed my camera. Interesting that my battery died. It was full within 10 minutes of the time that I did it. But we were going up there chasing this hooting that happened on the ridge.

• 46:09Speaker 04

  As we got up into there, we heard three hoots, like, I mean, whoops off on the ridge from the direction that we've just been talking about. And we said, no, we're not getting pulled off this trail. So we kept going and we walked by this marsh area that I had seen. When I looked at the, later, when I looked at that video that I was recording, there was nothing in this marsh area that we walked by. And the next day, when I went up to recheck it, we found these perfect 16 and a half inch tracks walking right through that marsh area. When I looked at it on the video the day before, they weren't there. So I know that something walked through there that night.

• 46:52Speaker 04

  And so we, we followed it back. We found probably five or six in the trackway going right through the water. But this was a not as wet area and it left these perfect tracks with a 48, 51 inch step length in that marsh right there. So that was the last thing that we did. And that really got us going and saying, okay, this is, this is not human. A human is not going to do this. In the night, from the time that we videoed to the next day when we found them in that area.

• 47:23Speaker 07

  Well, there is one other story. We, we were sort of, uh, I don't know what the right term is, innocent bystanders to it. But one morning, David and I got up and the only bathroom is probably about an eighth of a mile away. And so we walked down to the bathroom and, and David went to the bathroom and I didn't want to stand there while he was doing his business. And so there's a small campground where the bathroom is. It has four spots in it. And it's got a circular loop. And I basically started walking that, that circle. And there's only one other person in that whole campground. And he was in a trailer in the very first campsite.

• 48:08Speaker 07

  And when I went by, he wasn't out there. And when I made this circle, and it's probably maybe a 200 yard loop. So it took me a couple of minutes, three or four minutes to get around. I come back and he's standing out in his, in front of his trailer, looking all around. And we had been cordial. We waved at him every time we went past and he kind of walked down a couple of times into the meadow and said hi to us, but we had never really talked and he sees me walking and he says, hey, what's your buddy wearing? And I, I, I don't know. I don't pay any attention to what my buddies wear. And he said, is he dressed in tan from head to toe?

• 48:52Speaker 07

  And I said, no, I don't think so. And about then David came out. And he said, well, you guys were walking down the, the road into Gypsy Meadows, uh, towards the bathroom. And I saw him go into the bathroom, or I know, he didn't see you go into the bathroom, but he saw me walk out to the road and start making a loop. And he went and sat down and all of a sudden his dog started barking. He told his dog to, to sit. And he said, his dog is well trained. But his dog would not stop barking and he was scratching at the door. So he got up and looked out the window. And he said something tall and tan followed us out of the woods.

• 49:34Speaker 07

  And when I made that loop around the, uh, um, the sort of the camp loop, it walked across the street and sort of up that ridge where other things had gone. And then he didn't see it again. Uh, we never heard it, but he said, basically it was in the tree line. And he thinks it was following us out as we walked out. We never heard it. We never saw it. We never smelled anything. Um, so if that is true, that it was following us out, it had to be able to travel through that brush and stuff very quietly. But that was sort of the, one of the last things that happened to us and we never saw it. He later estimated that it was probably eight feet tall.

• 50:20Speaker 07

  And he thinks it was tan from head to toe.

• 50:24Wes Germer?

  Yeah. And I know that description of whatever it was that guy saw comes up later. I want to go through some of this audio. And the first one is titled, uh, Five Knocks. And I think this is a shortened clip, but let's take a listen.

• 50:50Wes Germer?

  This other piece of audio you sent me from Gypsy Meadow is Knocks With A Whoop.

• 51:07Wes Germer?

  And I thought this other one was really interesting. You had titled it Knocks Get Up.

• 51:22Wes Germer?

  Wow, you can really hear it there.

• 51:32Wes Germer?

  These are whistles that you captured at Gypsy Meadows.

• 52:00Wes Germer?

  Sounds very human. Those whistles sound very human. This one is titled Howls. A little bit harder to hear, but you can definitely hear it in the background.

• 52:46Wes Germer?

  I don't know how well that one translated over audio on a spectrograph. I can definitely see it. This other one is titled breathing. And when I first heard it, I thought it was it sounded like a man to me.

• 53:15Wes Germer?

  And this last piece of audio I'll play is knock with a female voice.

• 53:35Wes Germer?

  It almost sounds like that knock was trying to impress that that female voice.

• 53:48Wes Germer?

  Tell me about how you guys captured this audio.

• 53:52Speaker 04

  This would have been two trips later because the next year we wanted, we got Sarah and Jonathan Brown asked us to film us on site. So we went back in May and June. Then we had already planned to go back in August of 2025. There was interesting things in that June trip that happened, especially to my wife. But the one you're talking about happened in August of 25 because we had camped at the end of the meadow where we had camped the first time in August of 2025. And so the audio you're talking about was up on a ridge about 30, 40 yards above our camp on the ridge.

• 54:35Speaker 04

  There's a weather station where they measure rainfall. And there's a post there and I just put my audio right up in that area. And so this, the recording of that one and the other one that's like, get up, you know, is all, both of them are from that weather station area and they're all about 2 o'clock at night, 2, 2, 3 at night. And that would have been in August of 2025.

• 55:06Wes Germer?

  And I know there's so much more audio to play. You guys had sent me so much audio and pictures and I really appreciate it. One of the videos you sent me was trailer heating thermal. And this is a video. Tell me about this.

• 55:23Speaker 04

  Which one?

• 55:24Speaker 07

  The, the, the trailer thermal. So it's actually a, a long story. I'll try to make it as short as I can. But so that was this year, 2026, Will Olmer, Bill Basson, Marshall White, and a few other YouTubers got with us and they went on this trip. And we crossed the creek and went hiking up into the wilderness. As I told you, the wilderness basically starts right across the creek. And on one of the trips, Bill started drumming on a hollow cedar.

• 56:07Speaker 07

  And as soon as he stopped drumming, he heard and one of the other guys down with him heard what they describe as Klingon talk, kind of across another branch of the creek. And they didn't hear it again. But that afternoon, when we got back, all my, all my, my, my phone had, had kind of died on that trip. Now, I'm not saying anything funny happened, but I was doing a lot of scans. We found a lot of footprints on that trip that we ended up scanning, trackways of, I think, 15 and a half inches by five inches. We probably found 10 or 15 tracks

• 56:47Speaker 07

  on that. Anyway, we got back to camp and I went to charge my phone in the meadow. That's where David's solar charger for his Jackery was. And I'm looking at my phone when it charged and all of a sudden I heard a big thump in the, in the meadow. And I didn't want to shout or anything, but I, I knew everybody was on, on their phone since we had internet back at camp. And I texted everybody to the group text, did everybody hear that? And even people that were 100 yards away, like Will, they heard it. So we kind of got together and went

• 57:26Speaker 07

  looking and Will ended up finding this huge 17 and a half, 17.3 pound rock that we think had been thrown clear across the meadow and landed on the opposite side of the meadow. You can see the indentation. It took pine leaves with it or pine needles that were crushed underneath. It broke a branch as it went through and it wasn't embedded in the dirt like the other rocks in the meadow where it was just kind of maybe a half inch or so deep there. So we then figured it had to come from the opposite side of the, of the meadow, right near where our camp actually was where David and I were staying with his wife Candy.

• 58:07Speaker 07

  And Will and another guy kind of went over there and they found the source of where that rock was. It was right behind our camp. Something had excavated this huge 17 pound rock and thrown it across the meadow. And then after that, David found footprints. I think they were 15 and a half inches, weren't they, David, or something like that, 15 by five or something?

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, once we found the hole where, and it actually fit in perfectly right where the hole was, you could tell that's where it came from and it matched.

• 58:38Speaker 07

  Just like a, just like a puzzle.

• 58:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was perfect. And I lasered it with a laser that the minimum that they could have thrown that without being seen in the meadow was 75 feet. So I started looking around there. If something grabbed this thing and pulled it out, there has to be tracks here somewhere. So I started looking around and I found three 15 inch tracks walking towards where that rock was that looked pretty fresh.

• 59:04Speaker 07

  So the next day, we decided to hike across the creek again. Not a lot happened. We casted, one of the guys casted one of those prints we had found. And we got back late in the afternoon and then that night, sort of when the, the trailer incident happened. So, so two times we had crossed the creek into the wilderness. One time we get back and, and something threw a rock, not at us, but across the meadow. And then the second time is, is when, when we crossed the wilderness is when the trailer incident happened. And David could tell you about that.

• 59:40Speaker 04

  I, I set up, we were like, again, 150 yards away. So we, we had, we had four thermals. We set in different directions. Will had two thermals in his different directions that he was going. The mine was pointed down the meadow towards Bill Basson's, you know, the teardrop trailer. And just to cover that whole area over there. The next morning he gets up and, and tells us, hey, did you guys come and hit my trailer or something hit my trailer and woke me up around 12:30 at night? And it was hard enough, it shook me. And I opened my doors and looked and I didn't see anything, you know, but something came over

• 1:00:22Speaker 04

  and hit and shook my trailer. And I said, well, I had a thermal on you. Let me go look and check it out. So I went and found my thermal and I think I sent you the video of that thermal picture. And you can see something come from the right, from behind the trailer. All you see is the very top of it come towards the trailer right at the time that he's talking about that something came up and hit his trailer. Then you see in the video, he, he opens his door. And when you use thermal, I hadn't noticed this, didn't notice about thermal, but I had, when I was at my son's house, I found it out that you can point

• 1:01:01Speaker 04

  a thermal at a window and get a heat reflection from somewhere else off the window. And so when he opens his door.

• 1:01:12Speaker 04

  There's a reflection of heat off his window of his door as a door angles out that points back towards, we figured out the angles and we think it was coming from back by a bear box that was in their camp over there. And it opens up and it looks like a Bigfoot. If you could see a head and a shoulder there, kind of leaning, and then it kind of goes away. Um, we tried to film it with Bill behind the door. We, you couldn't see him through the door the next day when we were looking at it. What was interesting was is that we found an imprint behind the bear box. And they called me over and said, hey, what does, does this look like a print to you? And I go, man, it looks strange. Didn't think much of it. Then Will figured out that what we actually found there was a hand

• 1:01:57Speaker 04

  print. You could see the five fingers of a hand print in the gravel right behind the bear box and a knee print. The gravel was just dispersed where it hit. And we think that when he opened the door, this thing spun around and put his hand on the ground and left that imprint in the gravel. Just cleared out all the small pebbles there and the knee print there was right at the right angle that would have met the thermal was bouncing off his window as he opened his door. And that was pretty cool.

• 1:02:25Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that is interesting. I need to take a closer look at that thermal you sent me and I'll post it for the audience underneath this episode. Going back to the audio for a second, the howls, the breathing, all the other audio I played, are you guys all capturing that in the same spot? You guys were talking about earlier?

• 1:02:46Speaker 04

  Where I got was again, in the middle of the night, like, you know, two thirty, three o'clock in the night, up on that weather station area. And that the howls that we got were further up, they seemed like they come from further up on the ridge. They were a little further away.

• 1:03:01Speaker 07

  And we've, we've now, you know, in our four years of doing this, gotten a little smarter and learned what we've done wrong. And we're still learning, clearly. But we, we now have multiple audios out. We had one, uh, you know, basically have the meadows surrounded. And then we also have them off, you know, at a distance in, in the forest. And incidentally, I also have one that I didn't send you of breathing was probably one o'clock in the morning. That was right near where Will and, and Bill Basson and another guy named Ops had been camping. So it was sort of 50 yards from their camp. And you hear something at whatever, one o'clock in the morning, kind of

• 1:03:46Speaker 07

  walk by. And then you hear this very deep breathing. And then a couple of pebbles are kind of ping, pinging off like the, the table. And then you can actually hear what we think we're not certain, but we think something tried the doors of their, of their car. So it's all in that same campsite that those things had run through. And I told you there are a lot of things that have happened in that campsite. Um, we also, the year before, when Jonathan and Sarah were there, we didn't know this at the time, but we spent the evenings around the campfire like you

• 1:04:27Speaker 07

  tend to do. And Will had set up a thermal pointing kind of across the meadow. And he ended up getting a, something that was watching us from behind a tree. And anyone wants to see that, they could go to, to his channel. Uh, but basically it looks like a round head that peaks, you know, around a tree and comes back and it does it for, I think it's almost a half hour every, you know, 30 or 40 seconds it looks out. If somebody gets up out of their chair and moves it, that's back really quick. All you ever see is sort of a round hot blob. And then we, we, we sized it. Uh, we

• 1:05:11Speaker 07

  did a recreation the year after. And using someone's known head size, the head of whatever was peeking around, we estimate was about nine inches wide. And the average human head is probably six, six and a half. So it's probably 50% wider than the, the typical human head. It didn't look like, uh, you know, a bear. We did, you couldn't see ears or a snout. Uh, clearly wasn't a moose. The head wasn't shaped like that. It was a round head that right in that same area where the, the, you know, in 2024, the Sierra sounds were, you know, and where these other things have happened

• 1:05:51Speaker 07

  with trailer was hit. Uh, something was watching us around a campfire for almost a half hour.

• 1:05:57Speaker 04

  And it didn't, it didn't have a neck. When we put Bill back there, it didn't have a neck. And Bill, we could see his neck and his head and the size was definitely smaller. And in that same campsite in June of 20, you know, 25, at 4:30, something came with a hand and pushed on my wife's hip through the tent wall. And pushed in and then pulled back out. And she woke, she was like, David, David, David, you know, something's out here. By the time I got up and got out and looked, there was, I couldn't find anything. But what was interesting is that when she would get up and go to the bathroom at night in the woods, there she had a hole that she would go and use. And she

• 1:06:40Speaker 04

  would put a big volleyball sized half rock all over the hole. And every time she went back to that hole, the rock was moved, not slid about two feet away. And she would move it back and it'd be slid. So something might have been smelling her scent and followed her to the tent and pushed on that wall of the tent. But that kind of freaked her out. Um, at that point, because every time she'd go back, that rock was gone.

• 1:07:08Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I was gonna ask you about what happened to your wife, David. Have you guys ever experienced fear when you're out there? Or it's like, I just kind of want to go home. I don't really want to be here anymore.

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  In Gypsy Meadows, I haven't. I've never, I had a rock thrown at me at Gypsy Meadows that landed behind my hammock, a small one. Curtis had a small rock thrown at him about 50 yards where I found 16 inch prints from where it threw it. Uh, at Gypsy Meadows, we have, they can go to Will's channel and see that documentation. But they're throwing rocks at us, not at us per se to try to hit us, but they're doing it. The, the 17.3 pound rock was huge. But I've never felt fear like they're trying to hurt us or do anything like that. At least at Gypsy Meadows.

• 1:08:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, I never have either. And, um, I even had a, a potential sighting at Gypsy Meadows. I say potential because my, uh, let's see, my heart tells me I didn't see it. My head tells me I did. Um, and what I mean by that, it was early morning. It was pre dawn. Uh, David and I had been awakened by, um, by rain coming down and our thermals were brand new and expansive. And we both kind of jumped out of our tents and went and brought in our thermals. And while we were doing that, my thermal was basically up at that weather station where he was talking about. His thermal

• 1:08:43Speaker 07

  was across the meadow. We were bringing in our thermals and we heard, uh, two or three whoops. We heard a couple of whistles and we heard a knock. And this all occurred in about five to 10 minutes of us bringing in our thermals. And we sat there for maybe 10 or 15 minutes and nothing else happened. And David went back to bed and I was, you know, once I'm up, I'm kind of up. So I just decided I'd go for a walk. And Will and the other guys were down in that other campground where that, uh, one guy had seen the tan thing that was eight feet tall. And so I just decided I was going for a walk, not anything specific, not, but I was just going to walk down there and walk

• 1:09:25Speaker 07

  through their campground and, and waste some time until it was light. And I got down to kind of a little circle road that I talked about. And I looked to my right and right where Will was camped, I saw something lightly colored. And again, this is pre dawn from about the waist up, standing behind a bush. And it was right up at the edge of Will's camp. And I just, my, my brain just all of a sudden went to, oh, that's gotta be Will. So I waved and didn't get a wave back. But I figured, you know what? It's no big deal. I'm going to walk the loop and I'll talk to Will when I get to

• 1:10:07Speaker 07

  the other side. And I got to his campsite and he was asleep. Everybody was asleep. There was no one else camping around us. And now all of a sudden I'm looking around, I probably spent 20 minutes or 30 minutes before anybody else woke up, looking everywhere. And you could, we have game cameras showing me setting off the game cameras, looking for this thing. And incidentally, where whatever was there standing, uh, was out of game camera range. So it wouldn't set anything off. But, but when I got about 15 feet closer to their, their camp, it, the, the game camera would go off. Uh, anyway, everybody gets up and we sort of recreated a little bit later. And the

• 1:10:52Speaker 07

  reason I thought it was Will was because it was lightly colored. And Will has this kind of yellow, off yellow fleece jacket that he wears. And I just assumed it's in front of his campsite. It looks like Will's jacket. And again, this is pre dawn, can't really see color. I just see something light. And so David is six, four, he's a big guy. And he was, uh, playing the, the figure. And he stood behind this bush and I sort of did the same walk where I only looked for two or three seconds down to my right. And all of a sudden I realized even at six, four, I'm only seeing David from about the armpits up.

• 1:11:34Speaker 07

  And then I realized also David's head was about a foot to a foot and a half lower than this branch where I had seen the head. And then we went behind that bush before David did the recreation and stuff had been trampled right behind the bush. So we think, the reason I say my heart doesn't think it was Will's or doesn't think it was Bigfoot, you want your sighting to be definitive, you want it to be something great, but my head tells me, you know, if David's six, four, and I can only see him from his armpits up and this other thing was, I could see waist up basically, because I saw what I thought was

• 1:12:15Speaker 07

  the whole, you know, fleece jacket of Will, it had to be something absolutely huge. And if you remember back to that Randy Lute finding, he was the guy in the trailer who saw something tan and big following us out of the, out of the forest, we wonder if maybe it was the same individual, just lightly colored, standing in Will's camp at 5:30 in the morning. And, and just 10 minutes before, 15 minutes before, we had three or four whoops and like I said, a knock and a whistle right in the same place. So, so getting back to the fear, I've never been fearful there by any means. As David said, they've thrown rocks, but

• 1:12:58Speaker 07

  they've never tried to hit us and we don't think. Even the one that touched candy, I think it was more out of curiosity than, than, than trying to harm her by any means. So we've, we've never felt uneasy being there. Now, it doesn't mean it can't happen or it won't happen, but so far, so far I haven't had that feeling there.

• 1:13:21Wes Germer?

  Is most of the activity that you guys kind of experience in this area is mostly, does it happen at night? I know this one you were just talking about Curtis that, you know, was early morning, but does stuff happen during the day or is it mainly at night?

• 1:13:39Speaker 04

  We do. We have had vocals. We've had whoops during the day. One of us, if you look on Curtis's, behind Curtis, you see a weaved perch that we found and we think one was sitting there up on the ridge behind. And those are all woven together and we went and found that during the day after we were chasing a whoop. It was an owl hoot and then a whoop. And then when we got up on the road to go up that ridge, it was Will, Marshall, Curtis and I. And Curtis is the one that found that weaved pine boughs there. But that was in the day, like four o'clock in the afternoon. The rock throw

• 1:14:20Speaker 04

  was probably around four in the afternoon, 4:30 or so during the day. My rock throw that landed behind my head when I was in a hammock was right before we went up that ridge and found that weaved perch area.

• 1:14:36Speaker 07

  That thing is a perfect observation post. It, you know, when you look into the forest, you can not see anything except trees, but from there you have a great view of the main road and you can see a portion of the meadow that we were in. So we think it was kind of an observation perch.

• 1:14:57Speaker 04

  And Will, Will found fingerprints on the side of that. They were like someone pushed up to get up.

• 1:15:02Wes Germer?

  I know you guys have been to a few other places. Have you guys ever seen the lights when you've been out there?

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:15:10Speaker 07

  I have not, no. But we've had, we've had weird electricity things. Like David said, his battery went out that one trip. This one trip in 2026, we've had electricity things, but it was also that week, we looked, you know, before and it was a high solar flare week. So we can't say what the electricity or electronics failures were, were due to, but we would have, for instance, thermals that would go for two hours. The battery was fine. Then it would record nothing for four to six hours and then start recording

• 1:15:49Speaker 07

  again. We had, you know, batteries drained. We had same thing with the, that happened to the thermal happened to some audio where it would record for a while, then stop, nothing turned it off. It would just stop and then it would pick up again two or three hours later. In fact, the thermal David had of the trailer, that thermal stopped, I think about an hour after the trailer was stopped, even though the battery was full and the thing was running the next day.

• 1:16:21Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it's weird that you guys are having battery fails and electronics fail on you, but that goes on. A lot of investigators, a lot of researchers talk about that. I think it's so cool. You guys are both doctors and you guys are looking into this. Curtis, what do you, you know, after all these experiences and some pretty cool evidence that you captured, what do you think Sasquatch is?

• 1:16:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, David and I have had this discussion. I think they're flesh and blood. But, and you know, when I first started out after the 2022 trip, I probably thought they were some type of ape. Now I think they're more, you know, closely related to us. And in the last year or so, David and I have been talking about the possibility of Nephilim in their heritage. But I think they're flesh and blood and I, I think even things that

• 1:17:32Speaker 07

  they can do that we don't understand, they still follow the laws of physics, but they may be able to manipulate things in ways that we just don't know. And that's just kind of my personal opinion. Even, even if they are potentially part Nephilim, I, I still think that angels and, you know, God, if, for those who believe in all that stuff, follow, follow the laws of physics, they just have ways of, of using those laws that we just don't understand.

• 1:18:07Wes Germer?

  What made you kind of start going down the route of these things could be possibly a Nephilim?

• 1:18:14Speaker 07

  Well, go ahead, Dave.

• 1:18:17Speaker 04

  I'm probably the one that, you know, we talked about that, but I'm a Seventh Day Adventist Christian. So everything in my circle, I need to have, try to get something and, you know, maybe expand my circle to fit in there and understand what's going on. I think that the forest people, the Native Americans thought of them as people of keepers of the forest. So I, and I think they were like, they felt like they were a separate tribe. I think we've seen that they have a language. I think they have intelligence. I think they, you know, are know more about the forest than we do. And I don't think that, you know, they're any dumber than we are as far as, you know, they have chosen to be separate from us. So when I, from a Christian standpoint, I try to look at it

• 1:19:01Speaker 04

  and say, where do these come from? If I believe in the flood, if I believe in the Bible and talking in Genesis six where the Nephilim were there before and then after they were this, you know, the sons of God came down and saw the, you know, the daughters of men and they had children that were Nephilim giants. The story of, I think the genetics of the Nephilim came through from Ham. You talk in the Bible of David and Goliath and his five brothers that were giants. You talk about Esau who was very heavily covered in, you know, skin and hair. You talk about Love Lock Cave where the Navajos found eight foot giants, redheaded giants that were, you know, cannibals there. You talk about

• 1:19:46Speaker 04

  skeletons that are found eight or nine foot, you know, human sized skeletons. So I think all that, trying to put it in, trying to fit, you, you look at the DNA studies that have been done that maybe a lot of people don't accept, but with their half human female DNA versus unknown primate. If that's the case, then they could be, the unknown primate card could be the, the Nephilim genetics that came through the flood that produced the giants of Anak, the sons of Anak, Goliath and those things. And if that's the case and they were Middle Eastern female human DNA, then that may be where they have come

• 1:20:27Speaker 04

  from. And if they are, then their genetics are, they are like a human, human thing, their brains probably as smart as ours. But that would, if that's true, we know that angels and them have, they can manipulate, Curtis was saying, they could be around us and we not see them and have that type of what we call paranormal thing. Maybe that gives them the ability with that type of DNA or genetics.

• 1:20:57Wes Germer?

  Does it bother you as a Christian to potentially go out there and interact and look for what could be the Nephilim?

• 1:21:06Speaker 04

  I wonder, it doesn't, um, I, I think there can be bad Sasquatches and there have been bad Sasquatches that have harmed humans and stuff, but I think there's bad species, bad individuals and all species, you know, around. I think what we have been and what we've been involved with at Gypsy Meadows, or there might be different at Gifford Pincho, I don't know, but at Gypsy Meadows, anyway, it seems like the ones there are not dangerous. They've been around us. They've just been observing us and watching us and, you know, interacting us more and more every time we go. They've left glyphs for us there on the meadow. Um,

• 1:21:49Speaker 04

  we found a couple of them there, a big one right in front of Will's camp. So, um, I think they are a human-like species. I think the Indians communicated with them. I've started learning Native American sign language in order to try to communicate with them. Um, I've tried to use that in the woods to, you know, communicate with them if I ever stand in front, but I want to be able to have some way of doing it. And I feel that Native American is as good as anything, Native American sign language, through the genetics and through the generations that they used to communicate with Indians, that maybe they know that. So that's my purpose and what I think as far as that goes.

• 1:22:32Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I appreciate your feedback. I, I don't think that they're, they're actually the Nephilim, because the Nephilim were gods and kings. They were tyrants, actually, rulers of the world at the time. Um, and did act very animalistic. I mean, they had no problems eating a human being, but I don't know if I'd put them in the Nephilim category, maybe more abomination or something that shouldn't exist. You know, when I very first got into this, I really thought it was an ape, because that's kind of what I saw, you know, somewhere between a gorilla and a man, but I'd probably put it more in the gorilla category, based

• 1:23:14Wes Germer?

  on, you know, long arms and just how it appeared and how it was proportioned. But I think the longer that you're in this subject, and if you have half a brain, you start to realize, like their behavior, for example, a lot of their behavior is very human-like. It's not animalistic by any means. Kind of like what you were talking about Curtis earlier, where you guys had the thermal and this head was peeking around a tree and every time you guys kind of looked in that direction, it would move back. A bear's not going to do that. A moose isn't going to do that. That sounds like something a human would do, but it makes you wonder. I mean, I could be a hundred percent wrong as well. I mean, you guys could

• 1:23:55Wes Germer?

  be right on your theory. Be safe while you're out there. And, you know, I really appreciate the fact that, again, you guys are doctors, you guys are out there taking this serious, you're collecting evidence. And for the audience, go to Instagram under Sasquatch Docs. You'll find what the guys are posting and on Facebook. But it's been a real pleasure having you guys on. I really enjoyed chatting with both of you guys. Thank you so much for taking the time.

• 1:24:24Speaker 04

  Hey, thank you, Wes. Thanks for having us.

• 1:24:26Speaker 07

  It's been our pleasure.

• 1:24:28Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, guys. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance to check out sasquatchchronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.