Stop Overthinking Your Sales Calls (Do This Instead)" | Adam Lowther - 2030

An architect plans every brick before laying one. An archaeologist starts digging and adjusts based on what turns up. Adam Mark Louther says most sales reps try to sell like architects when the job actually calls for an archaeologist's mindset. Adam built his first sales skills knocking on doors selling exterior cleaning services, and today he coaches founders and sales teams on turning conversations into paying clients. We talked about why overthinking kills deals, how the first five minutes of a call sets the frame for everything after, and the two-call process he uses to close more business. Stop Overthinking and Take Action Adam's biggest message: sales gets overcomplicated. Most people already have enough information to move, but they stall out gathering more instead of acting on what they have. People stuck in analysis paralysis are the ones who need every detail mapped out before they'll take a single step, and that costs them in a fast moving environment like sales. The reps and leaders who win aren't the ones with the perfect plan. They're the ones who execute, look at the results, and adjust from there. Think Like an Archaeologist, Not an Architect Adam's framework, borrowed from his mentor: an architect needs total certainty before building, since every measurement has to be right before anything gets built. An archaeologist works the opposite way. They dig in one spot, see what's there, and adjust based on what they find, since nobody knows exactly what's underground until they start. Sales works like archaeology, not architecture. You have a general idea of where to focus, then you test, learn, and adjust instead of waiting for certainty that never comes. There's No One Right Sales Process Adam pushes back on the idea that there's a single correct sales methodology to follow, whether that's MEDDIC, Challenger, or anything else. What matters is consistently doing the fundamentals: finding the real issue, talking to the right person, and building enough value that price stops being the objection. Getting stuck choosing the "perfect" framework is its own form of analysis paralysis, and it keeps people from ever getting real reps in. The First Five Minutes Sets the Frame A call handled poorly in the first few minutes can cost the entire sale, because that's when the frame and the agenda get set. Whoever asks the questions controls the call. Without setting that frame early, a buyer with a strong personality will take over the conversation entirely. Adam learned this the hard way early in his career, watching experienced buyers steer his calls before he had a structure in place to prevent it. Three Parts of Opening a Call: Icebreaker, Frame, Agenda The icebreaker is genuine, unscripted small talk. It should feel like a normal conversation, not a routine, and it should be dropped if the other person clearly isn't in the mood for it. The frame reminds the buyer why the call is happening and how they got connected in the first place, since a call booked weeks ago often gets attended on autopilot without that context. The agenda tells the buyer exactly how the call will run, before a single discovery question gets asked. Adam explicitly tells prospects he'll ask questions first, then invite them to a second call if it's a genuine fit. Always Book the Next Meeting From the Meeting Adam uses what he calls BAMFAM, book a meeting from a meeting. If a prospect says they'll "arrange something" later, that call almost never happens. The second call needs to get booked on the calendar before the first call ends, since people get busy and forget otherwise. This is a small habit that protects momentum on every deal in the pipeline. Build a Personalized Game Plan Before the Second Call Between the two calls, Adam reviews the discovery call transcript and notes, then builds a plan using the prospect's own language and specific pain points. On the second call, he walks through that plan, framed as free coaching rather than a pitch, which is what makes prospects want to see more detail instead of feeling pitched to. The transition into the actual offer is simple: he tells them the plan isn't quite as simple as the summary, offers to show them more detail if they want it, and lets the prospect self-select into hearing the pitch. How to Actually Start Taking Action Adam's advice for anyone stuck in analysis paralysis: first figure out what's actually driving the hesitation, whether it's fear of rejection or something else, since you can't fix what you haven't named. After that, find the smallest possible action you can take today, not the biggest. Small wins build confidence, and that confidence compounds until the actions that felt out of reach start to feel normal. "Think about what is the smallest action you can take today. Gain confidence from every action you take, and it compounds." — Adam Mark Louther Resources Connect with Adam on Instagram: @adammarklouther. He offers a free 45-minute discovery call to talk through where your sales process may be losing deals. Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way. https://thesalesevangelist.com/linkedin-prospecting-course/Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content. https://bluemangostudios.com/ Sponsorship Offers This episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot. With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales https://www.hubspot.com/products/sales. This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation. Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/UCMfjZbX. Credits As one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey http://thesalesevangelist.com/survey. https://tsesales.typeform.com/to/lc5yAa8P We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sales-evangelist/id788738885, Google Podcast https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3RoZXNhbGVzZXZhbmdlbGlzdC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj5kaXI3Pj2AhVKcjABHW5PDVwQ9sEGegQIARAC, Stitcher https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-sales-evangelist-sales-trainingspeakingbusiness-marketingdonald, or Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1NjzsFjQwVrgboUfDvbzd5?si=LdQOJDc1T-WBPMxr1h3RsA. 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• 1:53Speaker 00

  You can overthink something and overthinking it, you may feel is going to help you to be more successful, but it's sometimes you just overcook the grits and we don't want to do that. Today, my good friend Adam and I are going to talk about why you need to stop overthinking and start taking action. And listen to how a door-to-door sales guy led to the consultancy that he has today. Check it out.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  Hey, hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to another great episode of the Sales Evangelist Podcast. I'm your host, Donald C. Kelly, the Sales Evangelist. And I'm so excited for another great episode. I'm so excited to be here with you today. On this episode, I have Adam Lowery, who's coming on the show. Adam and I connected. Adam has been a door-to-door salesperson and he used that door-to-door sales knowledge, selling gutter cleaning and just roof stuff, just cleaning and to a B2B focus and help organizations. And now he helps companies with their sales teams develop and consult. And he has a consultancy and highly recommend you check him out. You can find details about Adam in the show notes, but he's a person that takes action. And this is what we started tackling today because many of us as sales leaders and sales reps,

• 3:06Speaker 00

  sometimes we can overthink, we can go into the spreadsheet, we can analyze too much, and that limits us from taking action. I've seen it firsthand and it impacted me in my success. Until I was able to get past that and take some action, I saw more success. Now, we're not telling you go to one side and not do any preparation. Forget that, we need you to prep, but we just don't need you to overcook the grits, so to speak. And today, Adam is going to talk to you about why you need to take action and help you to get out of this paralysis mode and start taking some action. If this is your first time listening to our podcast, I appreciate you being here. Please subscribe. If you've been listening for a minute, thank you so much. Please share this episode with one other person and connect with me on LinkedIn. Not just follow, connect with your homeboy on LinkedIn and say, Donald, I'm loving the show and I appreciate that. As we dive in, you get a chance to hear a little bit more about Adam's passion, philosophy,

• 3:51Speaker 00

  and why he's so big on taking action. Check it out.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  Adam, welcome to the show, man.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  I am looking forward to it. As someone who sold door-to-door, I always have an affinity for people who sell door-to-door or have done it in the past. And the way that we have this lined up, I am pumped about it. You've done a whole lot over the course of your career, not only from just sales, but also helping business and so forth. I bragged about you a little bit, but I'd love for you to take maybe just one more minute and just tell us a little bit more about why, you know, tell us about why you're so passionate about this topic? How we need to get sellers and sales leaders to take action rather than just learning spreadsheets?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, just briefly, I mean, again, thanks for having me on the show. I think for me, like, we can always have more frameworks. We can always have more ways of approaching sales and we can go amongst the weeds, if you will. But often, sales is just simple and I feel like it's overcomplicated. I feel like one of the main things that, one of the main action points people can do is just take action. And it sounds super simple, but I see so many people who are, you know, thinking through every single detail before they take any action. And I feel like it's just holding them Batman, so.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  One of my coaches back in the days, he taught us like it's the analysis paralysis by analysis. Like, you think about it so much that all of a sudden you go paralyzed. You don't want to do anything like, I can't do it. And like, bro, calm down, take action, the first step. So I'm looking forward to this, man, and to dive in a little bit more about it. But the problem that we see that many sales leaders, just like you said, they overthink it. Three things we talked about. One is that we need to stop overthinking, take action. Two, the first five minutes and how that set the frame for any calls, any call you're making. And then your to-call close process.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  And how this, you learned this from door-to-door. What did you sell door-to-door, by the way?

• 5:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I sold, it was my own business and I sold exterior cleaning for domestic properties. So things like gutter cleaning, PVC cleaning, parts of like roof cleaning, that kind of thing. So kind of random and not what I'm doing now, but the principles of sales obviously still translate to what I'm doing now, which is the interesting thing.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  The gutter cleaning part, my brother was, he did a company, worked with a company where they did that. And it's fascinating like how, like, I didn't think that was that big of a deal, right? I'm like, it's just gutters, you know, people can just clean it. But dude, if your gutter doesn't get cleaned properly, you can grow a new ecosystem.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  And you can, yeah, I've seen it, I've seen it myself.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  You might have some dead animals in there.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen that, honestly, yeah, dead birds in there. It's horrible, yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 00

  And then it ruins the roof, right? Because then it backs up and then it goes back into drainage into your roof, so.

• 6:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's so funny, like the things that I've seen while I've been up there, like looking in the gutters. It's not for this show, like it's going to have to be rated 18 or something.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Great. We'll do that on another episode. It'll give Sales Evangelist After Dark. There we go.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Yes, new ideas, sounds good.

• 6:53Speaker 00

  Well, let's dive into this. Stop, the idea, the first point, stop overthinking and start taking action. You kind of alluded to it, but why is that so critical for any seller that's trying to make breakthrough or sales leaders and, and why did they get so stopped oftentimes in focusing on spreadsheets?

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's, I think the natural inclination, like the natural thing to do that we think that we need to do is always have more information. We think having more information is going to make us make better, more informed decisions and we're going to be able to plan everything better. But as you know, like, sales is a fast, dynamic-moving environment. And if you're that person that needs to have every single thing planned out before you take action, you're going to get left behind from the guys who, yeah, they're strategic and they have a plan, but they don't spend the majority of the time on that plan. They execute on that plan, they see what data they get back, and then they iterate based on the market feedback that they get. And what you said like about, was it analysis paralysis?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, I like that, like, analysis paralysis, like overthinking is such a common thing that I see. I like to think of it as like the difference between an architect and an archaeologist. So if you think about it, like, an architect's whole job is having certainty before taking action, right? Like, every single precise measurement, where every brick is going before it's laid, all calculated out on paper before a single thing even gets built. And that makes total sense if you're building a house, right? You know, the building isn't dynamic, it's not changing, like it's just a static building. But in sales and business in general, with it being that fast-moving, dynamic environment,

• 8:34Speaker 01

  we need to adopt the mindset of more of like an archaeologist. So an archaeologist's job is opposite, right, to the architect. So they don't know what's under the ground, nobody does. So they start digging over here, they see if there's anything in the ground that's working over here. Maybe there's not, so they try over here. And then it's like, oh, we found something, let's dig here a little bit further and see what works. So that's how I like to think of it in sales and in business. It's about taking action and it's about having that mindset of an archaeologist where we don't know exactly what's going to work, but we have an idea of the area of the things that we should be focusing on. And then through having a little dig and seeing what works, we can change our strategy based on that, if that makes sense.

• 9:18Speaker 00

  It does. And I like the approach with the architect and archaeologist. I may have to borrow that and I'll give you some credit on that.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I got that from my mentor, actually. It's a really good one, isn't it?

• 9:30Speaker 00

  It is, I mean, like, yeah, you're, I think, when you said it from sales, you're discovering, right? Archaeologists, I'm discovering, trying to find, you know, whatever this is. I don't know, I just saw bones, let me just keep going deeper and see what's there.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Exactly. And there's no, yeah, and there's no like set right and wrong way to do something. Like, it's just what works. So like in sales, you know, for sales reps, for sales leaders, like, what might work for one sales rep might not work for the other. It's obviously depending on the, the offer and the context, who they're speaking to. So it really just is about having that mindset, almost like a scientist mindset, right? We're just running like little experiments, seeing what happens and then changing based on those results, really.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  You know, and then the cool piece about that is you're, you don't have a, it's like you're, the process of going about executing the sale doesn't necessarily, it's like almost tomato and tomato. And let me give you what I mean by this is when I first got formal sales training, I was doing just garbage. And then I had formal sales training, which gave me a parameter that I can follow to be successful. The thing that I had was I thought that formal sales process was the only one. And I got them, I was like, this is the best one that you got to follow. Everyone must follow it. But then you look around the country, you look around the world, you're like, how come all of these other companies are still making tons of billions of dollars? Are they following my exact same process? And the answer is no. And I think it's what you're saying.

• 10:58Speaker 00

  There's certain things that are just innate, like you must identify the issue and you must make sure you're speaking with the right people. And you must ensure that you, you know, obviously they have money to pay for it. But if you build enough value, you can do that. But whether it's like MedPic, Medic Challenger, whatever process you follow, Chandler, it's what's comfortable for you to be able to help you get to that point. And I think that's where people would go and analysis by paralysis might say, I need to figure out what's the best disco method to use.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  And yeah, yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  And go for it.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that resonates with like, what you're saying like makes complete sense. And like, I see that all the time as well. It's kind of like having a script or like, I don't like calling them scripts, but like call maps, if you will, are kind of useful for a framework.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Like that.

• 11:44Speaker 01

  And especially for like beginners as well, or people who aren't maybe taking sales calls all the time. So they're a bit rusty, but it is like you say, it's just a framework and it's not a one size fits all. You've really got to experiment. It's like when I started my door to door business, I had no training, no CRM, you know, no script, no nothing. And I literally just knocked on the door and I didn't even really know what I was going to say the first time I knocked on a door, to be honest with you. And it was kind of just like an iterative process of like, let's see what works. Like, sure, I knew I had a service, I knew they had a problem, I knew that I could solve it. And hopefully they'd be willing to pay for it, but it was just trial and error, knocking on those doors, getting rejected, not letting that affect my mindset and going on to the next door, resetting.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  That's a huge thing. Like we can come onto that a bit later if we do, but like mindset in sales, it's cliche, but it's just so, so important. It is, it is.

• 12:43Speaker 00

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• 13:46Speaker 00

  Your focus on, you know, not overthinking it, taking the action, I resonate with that. There's also a part of it where, yes, you know, and I hope people don't get the wrong impression of, you know, 2000 episodes. And I've surely talked about preparation and so forth. And I think with AI and these days, we can be more prepared. I think the argument we're making is that don't not take action because you have to over prepare. Like you need to have some stuff that you go in with, and which I think goes naturally into the next portion where you, you have your framework that you follow. It was the first five minutes sets the frame for the call.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Walk me through that real quick.

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. So as you said, before I jump on a call with anyone, like I've done a little bit of homework before. So going back to your point, we're not trying to say, don't be strategic, don't do any homework, any of that thing. Like, of course, that's just a given, but in terms.

• 14:38Speaker 00

  Sorry to interrupt there because it's one example is like you're going in neighborhoods when you're knocking on doors is a perfect example. Neighborhoods that you researched that probably have money and two, they probably have people with gutters. You're not going in some of the, you know, condominiums or some of the.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  That don't have it. And I think that's what we're trying to make. You didn't go to the neighborhood with, that has the, you didn't research to say how, you know, the, the price of the home has increased this much. And the people drive this type of car and they work in this type of neighborhood, you know, industry. You're just like, hey, there's a neighborhood, they have gutters and they look like they are paying your mortgage. So let me go to the.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah. Exactly. And it's just exercising common sense and like, that's going to be different for every sector, every industry. But I didn't like pay a data analysis to like, get all the data and grab it and like scrape it. And then I do a big analysis on it. It was, yeah, just kind of like you say, like, you know, do they have gutters? Like, might they need cleaning and might they be able to pay? Yes, yes, and yes. So that's enough. And so, yeah, in terms of what you were asking with the call. So I do think that the first five minutes, even the first couple of minutes of a call can, if done poorly, it can completely ruin your chances of closing that sale.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Why?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Because when we are, the first few minutes of the call are really setting the frame and setting the agenda. So the way that I like to think about it is that you want to make the prospect realize that you're the one in control of this call, right? So you're the one asking the questions, you know, you're not getting swept along by whoever's got the stronger personality on the call. Because I've been there in the past where I've been on a call, like when I first started doing sales calls. And it was this guy who's worked in corporate for years, who works with companies that are doing north of like 20 million a year plus. And he knows what he wants and he's very strong personality. And without setting that frame, like he would just take control of that conversation. So the way I kind of view it is the start of a call is in three parts.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  You've kind of got like the icebreaker, which is just, you know, a warm open, you know, it's genuine small talk. It's not scripted, it shouldn't feel robotic. It's kind of just like what we're doing now, having a conversation like normal human beings, you know, maybe like, how's your week been? You're like, where are you calling from? Like finding something genuine that you can connect over. And then after you've had that, then, and by the way, we, we shouldn't force this. So like, if the other person is like, obviously not wanting that, then you, you adapt yourself on the fly. But once we've like had a bit of an icebreaker, it's about setting the frame. So the frame is where you remind them why the conversation is even happening in the first place, right? And how you connected, because you might have booked that call like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, like a month ago, you might've been pushed back.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  And they, they just see it on the calendar and they think like, oh, I'll just jump on this call. But you need to like bring them back to the mindset they were in when they booked that call. Because that's conditioning them in a way where they're going to be potentially in the highest possible buyer's intent position to buy something eventually, if it's a good fit. So essentially on my own calls, I'll literally say something like, you know, so just to recap, Donald, you know, we connected after this webinar. And you mentioned that you were struggling with X, you know, does that still feel like where you're at? Just to confirm that you've not had a massive like change in your business and you, you're not even focusing on that anymore. Because without that, I could just spend the whole call going down that rabbit hole and focusing on the completely wrong thing.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  To then be told at the end of the call, like, oh, this isn't really what I need. Actually, we've changed something. So it's quite important to, you know, it does two things. It confirms that the starting point is the correct starting point out loud. And then it also reestablishes why you're credible to be even having this conversation, if that makes sense.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  It does.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  And then, yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  Sorry, keep going, you're, you're, you're wrapping, man. This is good.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I've got it. I just, so, so, yeah. Yeah, exactly. My indicator cookie, it's hot. So kind of like, yeah, we've done the icebreaker. I've set the frame. So you know why I went on this call. And then we want to set the agenda. So that's the one I find that people skip the most. And it's obviously, it's honestly like the most important of the three. So this is where you explicitly tell them how the call is going to run. And this is before you ask like a single question and go into discovery. So on every discovery call I run, I say some version of, the way that I normally run these calls is I'll ask you some questions about where you're at, what your goals are, maybe what's getting in the way of those, maybe some challenges, some obstacles that are preventing you from getting to that goal.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  And then if I know that I can genuinely help you, what I'll do is I'll invite you to a second call where I bring back a personalized game plan of the, the three things that are going to push your business in the right direction. How does that sound? So what I'm doing is like, I'm setting the agenda that I'm the one asking the questions. And if it's a good fit, I'm going to invite you to a second call. So I can present this personalized game plan. And that's quite important because I'm framing the second call, not as a decision call where they have to decide whether they want to work with me, whether they're going to pay me the money or anything like that. I'm framing it as almost like free sales coaching. So the first call is all about discovery, like there's no pitch. Like if they're like, just tell me how much it is, like, what is it?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  I'll be like, dude, I'm nothing to sell you right now. I don't even know if I could help you right now. Right? I need to understand. It's like if you walked into a gym and you wanted to get a PT, a personal trainer, right? And they just gave you a workout plan without asking you any questions. You'd be like, what the hell, man? You didn't, you don't even know my goals. You don't know if I have any medical conditions. You don't know like what my goals are. So it's the same in sales. Like we really actually need to understand what they need and what a problem is before we can, you know, we need to diagnose before we can prescribe, right? And but I see so many people kind of skipping over that step and framing it in the call, like the agenda.

• 20:25Speaker 00

  Yeah. And I think that's an important idea of not abandoning your agenda. The part that gets me with folks when they do that, because I coach sales reps from a wide variety of different levels. A lot of them are new or inexperienced, or some of them have been selling for a minute, but they, you know, fall into a slug, a rut. And one of the things that I find is that they are abandoning the basics and they get comfortable. Like you get on a call, the new guys get on a call and they don't know what they don't know. So they get on a call with a person and they just start having a conversation and they're like, okay, I'm, they're hopeful a deal is going forward.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 00

  And then they, it's not. Then you have the, then you have the other folks who are veterans. They've been selling for a while. They've been successful and then to ease off some of those fundamentals. And then you, their deals are stalling and it's like, we know what's going on because they got on these calls. And like you said, they go with the stronger personality. The person is just like, you know, give me, and then you follow them and then you just, you skip steps. And when you skip steps, just dangerous things happen. Again, not being prescriptive, but just making sure you have some bench markers. Do we have a next step? Do we have a reason why we're meeting? And that piece alone oftentimes misses folks, it messed me up. And I'm just speaking from, you know, for real, like you have appointments and you're going back to back at these appointments.

• 21:44Speaker 00

  And you don't know why you're meeting with that person.

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 21:47Speaker 00

  And if that was reestablished, that makes the conversation better. And you're trying to figure this out in 30 minutes and you didn't, you didn't get it. By the time you get done, you figure out what, why you're meeting and what the real issues were, but you didn't get strong value. And next thing you know, this deal is sideways.

• 21:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, I hate like, I hate like rushing discovery as well. So a lot of like people who are more experienced with sales calls will do the one call close. They'll just have one call, close on that call, which is fine. And like, depending on like the context, obviously you can do that. Maybe you've spoken with them before and you've had a form of discovery before. However, like I don't like to rush discovery because as you know, like we can use what they tell us in discovery to get them over the line, to get that sale when it comes to actually closing, right? So I like to BAMFAM. Have you heard of BAMFAM before? B A M F A M.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Somebody mentioned it.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So like book a meeting from a meeting, like you said.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Yes, totally. Yes, we do.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. So like always book a meeting from a meeting. Like if they're like, oh yeah, we'll arrange something like, no, you need to get them in the calendar booked in on that call. Otherwise it's probably not going to happen. People are busy, people forget. And yeah, I like what you said about really having it clear in your mind who this person is, what context you're going into the call with and why they're on the call with you. And that's why what I said about setting the frame at the start of the call is so important, right? Because they may just be going through the calls, they have multiple calls a day and they're like, oh, I don't even know what this is. Quickly jump on this one. They need to be reminded of why it's important they're on the call and why they've agreed to be on the call.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  And that makes them more open to having a pitch shown to them later on as well, if it's a good fit. So I kind of booked that second call and then in between those two calls, I go away. I use AI obviously to look at the transcript and in other ways, I look at notes that I've made and I go away and build a personalized game plan for them based entirely on what they actually told me. So I use their language and their pain points of what they've said, right? And then on that second call, I essentially show them the game plan. And I'm like, this is what I found. These are the main things. And they're often like, wow, this is so good. Like this is exactly, sounds just like what I need. And I'm, and I'm thinking to myself, yes, because my discovery has been good.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  And then I've gone away and I can look at the specific language they use. And I know exactly where their head is at going into this call.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  And then the transition that I use to go from this free thing, game plan to the pitch is, you know, I would say something like, you know, so obviously that's the game plan. Obviously as I'm going through it, I'm like, you know, how does that sound to you? Like, does that make sense? So, you know, what's good about that? What makes sense? And then I would say something like, you know, so that's the game plan. Obviously it's not quite as simple as this. The devil's in the details.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Amen.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  It really is. And if you want, I can show you a bit more in depth, like what that actually looks like, but it's completely up to you. And like, I've not had one person say, nah, I don't want to see it. Cause you're like literally saying like, I'll show you in more detail. And that's the invite for you to essentially pitch because they're saying like, I'm interested.

• 24:59Speaker 00

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• 25:43Speaker 00

  The most dynamic buyer network working just for you. Accelerate your sales with LinkedIn Sales Navigator. Try LinkedIn Sales Navigator now with a free 60 day trial at LinkedIn.com/sell. That's LinkedIn.com/sell. Terms and conditions apply. Since 2013, we launched this podcast. The goal of the podcast was to share wealth of information and I feel that we've successfully done so. As a natural byproduct, listeners like you would reach out and ask, could I coach them? Could I train their team? Could I come and speak in an S K O? Could I consult for them? And that is how we gain the majority of our business and still to this day.

• 26:25Speaker 00

  So in 2019, one of our clients saw what we did and asked, could we do that for them? We experimented with it and we started a podcast production agency. Now we create podcasts for some of the biggest brands in the world and it's amazing. I would love to show you and your team how we can create podcasts for you and use it as an entertaining source, but also educational and a lead generation. If you're interested, go to bluemangostudios.com. Again, bluemangostudios.com and our team can show you exactly what we did. It's amazing.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  That's your two part or third point. We're going to look at the two point discovery, right? The two point call.

• 27:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, sorry, I might have skipped ahead a little bit.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  It's flowing really well.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get passionate.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  So we did the first five minutes to understand why you're setting the call. And then you go into the two call discovery. And from there, you're, one is the discovery and then two, your second call is your solution.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  Yes, yes, that's right.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  And that's that cliffhanger you leave with them to go more in detail. Is that right on that?

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Because if we frame the second caller as like, okay, like I think I can help you. Let's jump on this second call and I'll show you what that looks like. They know that they're going to get pitched to and tried to get sold to on that second call. So it increases the friction for the match to attend that call. Like it's, it increases like no shows and things like that. But if I frame it as though like, you know, based on what you said, it sounds like you're struggling with X and Y. And you've tried Z and that's not working for you. I know that I can really help you. Like what I want to do is go away and put together this personalized game plan for you. Because I could just give you like some generic advice, but honestly, like I want to give you the advice that's actually going to help you. So let's get that second call booked in and I'll walk through the game plan with you.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  And if you want, you can just go off and implement that yourself. Obviously if you want to hear more about it, like in depth, we can talk about that, but it's completely up to you. And then they feel good about getting on this second call because they think like, oh, I'm getting this personalized game plan. And I do genuinely spend a lot of time on each game plan because I want them to think, wow, you know, this guy knows what he's talking about. These are, it's in a stage where they could take that advice and go away and do it themselves. But often people are so blown away by how much you actually understand their business, their problems, that they just want to like, have you help them with it.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're just trusting you to take care, take it off for them.

• 28:51Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  I mean, there's so many great insights that you shared with this. Imagine there's a sales leader listening here or a sales rep thinking like, you know, man, I need to take action. I need to do more of this. They may be analysis by paralysis right now and they're just, you know, some of the deals they have are not getting traction as they would like.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  What's the one advice you would give them to start taking action? What's that one thing that they need to do right now to start taking action?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess like the easy answer would just be just take like action. But you know, in all seriousness, yeah, like you've just got to, you know, sometimes you've just got to do it. But like, if you're really struggling with taking action for whatever reason, that's normally an internal thing like that you need to fix. So the first thing I would do is actually try and look at like, what can I, like, what's the reason that, why do I have fear around taking this action? Like, is it fear of rejection or is it fear of something else? Because if we don't know what's holding us back, how can we progress from it? In terms of like actionable advice that people can actually do, aside from that, which I would really suggest starting with, the actionable advice is thinking like, what is the smallest thing you can do to take action?

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Like, don't try and say like, I don't know, I need to get on this call and pitch this thing to this big corp or whatever. Like just think, what is the smallest action I can take today? And then gain confidence from every action you take and they'll compound. And before you know it, you'll be taking actions that right now seem out of reach.

• 30:25Speaker 00

  Hmm. Love it. Love it.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  That makes sense.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  It does. You start here, it grows and you can start taking bigger actions essentially.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Cause a lot of the time it's a confidence issue for whatever reason. It comes down to fear and confidence. So if you can take small actions that you know are very likely to be a win, then that's just going to give you confidence to keep building on top of one another. And then before you know it, you know, you've got that positive reinforcement. You're going to have the confidence to take the other actions.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Tell us about what you're doing right now.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So in terms of like my work and who I'm working with. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm working with a wide variety of people at the moment. I'm only working with three people at the moment because I try to limit the amount of people I'm working with so I can get the best results, right? But essentially if you're having real conversations, but you're struggling to convert them into paying clients, or maybe you have a sales team who just aren't quite cutting it on the sales front. They're the types of people that I work with best. So just to give you a quick flavor, I'm working with a coach for CEOs in the US at the moment who works with these, you know, companies that are doing like 20 million plus and working with an aesthetics clinic in the UK who are doing very close to seven figures.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  I'm also doing some one-on-one coaching around like mindset when it comes to sales, objection handling and that kind of thing. So it is quite varied, but essentially yeah, helping with the, the sales front. Yeah. If you're getting leads in and you're not converting them, then I help like do a full audit and figure out where the gaps are and what a path forward would look like.

• 32:00Speaker 00

  Love it, man. If people want to get in touch with you, they're curious about that. What's the best way for them to do so?

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. So the best way is probably on Instagram. I'm quite active on there. I quite enjoy Instagram and it's at Adam Mark Lowther. I don't know if you can put it in the description or something, but it's Adam Mark and then Lowther is L O W T H E R. I'm more than happy to have a conversation and yeah, I offer a free 45 minute discovery call. So again, like I've just talked with you on this podcast, you know, I can talk with them about what's going on and if I can help, but if I can't, like no hard feelings, I'll just signpost them in the right direction. Like, yeah, it's water off a duck's back. Like they say in the UK, like it's no problem at all.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Not a big deal, man. We'll figure it out.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Well, listen, Adam, thank you for taking the time to come on the show today, man. Thanks for bringing the wisdom and helping us take some action.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been awesome.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  We'll put this stuff in the show notes. Appreciate you, man.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I really enjoyed it. Cheers.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  Oh, sucka sucka now. Adam came through, he saw and he delivered. Listen, if you haven't done so already, connect with Adam, tell him you heard him here on the Sales Evangelist Podcast. We have him on Instagram. You can find us details there as well. And I would love to hear, what are some of the actions that you're taking? Have you ever been in a situation like Adam where you just didn't take action and it used to start taking action, you start results or like me? I would love to hear what some actions that you started to take. Connect with me on LinkedIn. You can also connect with me on the Gram as well, Donald C. Kelly, and let me know. And I would love to hear from you. Listen, this show is great, but it's not great. It can't be great without you. So please share the podcast and tell me, connect with me, engage. I want you to thrive. I want you to succeed. I want you to raise your level of thinking, but most importantly, I want you

• 33:42Speaker 00

  to go out. I want you to do big things. See you on the next one.

• 33:51Speaker 00

  The Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSC Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jershun Obayal. Our video engineer is Dusan Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Kristy Virtus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galberith. Our graphic designer is Yurvish Savalia and I'm your host and executive producer, Donald C. Kelly.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Sales Podcast Network.