What Jane Doe & Cornell 7 Said Happened That Night- All The Inconsistencies

Senior Night at a high school football game is a very big deal. It’s kind of like the Oscars and a State of the Union coming together for one night. There are tears, balloon arches, and slow-motion football videos, with a coach trying his best to sound like Morgan Freeman. But at Timberline High School in Boise, Idaho, the spotlight has shifted from football to protests, police involvement, and student walkouts. Homecoming festivities, including the game, were canceled after a Snapchat group chat allegedly involving football players went viral. The messages allegedly discussed how they were going to r*pe and kill a female student. “Let’s make her life hell.” “Hell yeah.” Then came a chilling reference: “You think Cornell was bad? Just wait for us.” This is part 2 of the Cornell 7 case. Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

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• 1:31Speaker 01

  Senior night at a high school football game. It's a very big ordeal. It's kind of like the Oscars and a State of the Union address coming together for one singular night. It's like a ceremony for the senior members of the high school football team, cheerleading team, and the marching band. So all the graduating seniors are walking down the field, usually guided by a parent, where the crowd is chanting. Everybody's crying because this is the last regular home game of the season. There's usually some sort of giant balloon arch that the football players and their parents have to walk through as some sort of threshold. Okay, now you're going to be a college student? I don't know. But I do know that all of it is most likely going to be recorded

• 2:14Speaker 01

  and later edited by another student, probably chugging one too many Monster Energy drinks. And it's just like slo-mos of the players getting ready in the locker room with a voiceover from the coach as he tries his very best Morgan Freeman impersonation. And then, once they get on the field, suddenly the coach's voice pauses and you hear the beginnings of a Kendrick Lamar song just thumbing in the background before the coach's voice comes back and it's a voiceover screaming like, "Give it all you got." Like, that's the vibe. And it's all great because now there's a digital footprint to look back on. Either you go, "Look, see, I told you I went to high school with that guy that's now in the NFL." Or you go, "See, look, I told you they all peaked in high school." It's like one or the other. There's no middle ground, okay?

• 2:59Speaker 01

  It's a very, very big deal, senior night. And in Boise, Idaho, Timberline High School is going to play the Post Falls High School. The Timberline Wolves versus the Post Falls Trojans. And it is said it's going to be a pretty tense game. These high schoolers take football just like way too seriously. Apparently, last year, Post Falls High School, there was like a little scandal in Idaho. No one really heard about it anywhere outside of Boise, Idaho. In Boise, Idaho, everyone was talking about it. But there was a protest because I guess these three Post Falls High Schools, so like three Trojans high school football players, two of them were fully decked out in Trojans gear, repping their own school. And they're on the football field and they had the third high schooler

• 3:44Speaker 01

  dress up in their competitors' gear, wearing a T-shirt from the competition. And he's on his knees surrendering as the two Post Falls football players are pointing an airsoft gun at his head. Basically saying like, "We're coming for you to the other high school. You're gonna bend to our will, you're gonna surrender, you're gonna get on your knees because we're gonna destroy you in football."

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Is this recorded?

• 4:09Speaker 01

  No, the picture starts circulating all over the school campus. Now, everyone's protesting at the school. But they're not protesting because the students took the picture and they needed to be disciplined. No.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  People are protesting because the students involved in that picture, they were suspended for 10 days and were removed from all athletics for the year. Students and parents were protesting the disciplinary action, saying it was way too harsh. "Members of the football team," a fellow teammate said. "To see our friends that are seniors not being able to play anymore games, I mean, that's it for them. It's sad. It hurts. So we're out here to show our support." Another one says, "Especially their senior year? That's like their biggest year for getting looks from colleges. I think they definitely deserve to play." Needless to say, I mean, this year seems like it's gonna be a lot more tense than last year. Because it's not, I mean, it's not even because of Post Falls High School, but it's because of Timberline.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Timberline High School has been in the national news as of recent. They have been having a rough month with protests, police, authorities getting involved with their high school, as well as full-blown student walkouts. Students are walking out of class and walking out of school as a form of protest. Timberline already missed the homecoming game. They still had the homecoming dance, just like none of the festivities. Like, homecoming week is huge in places like Boise, Idaho, in places that you would consider football nation, small-town America, Friday night lights, Monday morning quarterbacking. Like, homecoming week is everything. Parents think homecoming week is everything.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Parents who pay taxes and mortgages think, no, homecoming week is end-all, be-all. But the school had to cancel most of it, except for the dance, and they released a statement. "This is not a decision made lightly or easily. Homecoming is so much more than one game, one parade, or one dance. It is a celebration of current, future, and past presence and the families, educators, and community who support them." But they had to cancel it, even the game, which is a pretty big deal. You know, where everything revolves around football? But it's all because a Snapchat group chat started going viral. Supposedly, Timberline High School students of the football team, the Timberline Wolves, they were talking about how they were going to R-word and kill a female student.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  The supposed Snapchat messages, and these have not been confirmed to be the right ones, but that have been circulating on social media read, "Drop her bitch ugly ass. Let's hang her from a light post and let the birds pick at her brain for days. Dumb slut, let's make her life hell. Hell, yeah." But then the conversation shifts to whether or not she deserves to die after being R-worded. And one of them even says, "She would definitely let us all fuck her. You think Cornell was bad? Just wait for us."

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Wait, this is a group of...

• 7:01Speaker 01

  High school.

• 7:02Speaker 02

  And in the, how many people's in the group chat?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  We don't know for certain. But one student and their parent apparently showed it to the school and that kickstarted a whole, it got leaked to the media. Authorities started getting involved. They are still involved to this day. A lot of female students are rightfully walking out protesting, as well as male students, saying that they don't feel safe. They don't know what's happening. They don't know what this culture is. They're also saying like, everything about what the authorities do moving forward is going to be defining for this entire area, probably for decades.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  They did cancel the homecoming football game, but they are going through with the senior night game that's happening in two days. Yeah. The Timberline Wolves will be playing. We don't know if anyone in the group chat that is supposedly on the football team will be playing, but people are watching and it's, it should be interesting to see how it plays out.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  But they are on the news because they said, "You think Cornell was bad? Just wait for us." This is part two of the Cornell seven case.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support RAIN, AKA the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network. They provide free confidential support services and information to survivors. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers, and we would also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. Before we begin, a content warning. This episode discusses an alleged sexual assault, including drug and alcohol usage, potential coercion, as well as the greater ripple effects that have resulted from this case, whether that be... A silver lining of people finally standing up and drawing more attention, or whether that just be a wholly negative impact. If you are a survivor or find this subject hard to hear, please take care of yourself.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Skip this one if you need to. There are also lots of discussions of whether or not the victim in this case is to be believed or not. And I know that can be triggering for a lot of people, so take time off if you need. And I cannot stress this enough. This case is currently ongoing. When we describe what happened that night, we're describing what is alleged in court filings, lawsuits reported by news outlets, what's found in public record up until the time of recording. Due to the current pending status legally, we have to use words like alleged, according to the lawsuit, according to Jane Doe, according to the accused. He said, she said, he states, she states. The usage of these words is not to discredit anybody's claims, but just for the purpose of, I mean, I'm not the police, I'm not the DA on this. I don't know what happened.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I don't have all of the resources to get all the information needed to give any sort of definitive or conclusive statement on this. I'm just telling you guys everything that we were able to find online, as well as any comments, theories, speculations, opinions, claims, or leaked information. They were found publicly online and do not reflect Rotten Mango's beliefs. If there are any massive developments or changes, we will do our best to keep you guys updated. But with that being said, let's get started. Also, just a side note, because I feel like everyone's throwing around lawsuits and defamation, like defamation has become a big thing again all over the news for just everyone. A lot of the people that are involved in today's case have lawyered up, and it just feels like their lawyers have lawyers, and some of the lawyers are lawyers that we are familiar with.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  One of them just retained the Agnifilo firm. I don't think they're being represented by Mark Agnifilo, who was, you guys remember, represented Sean Combs and then was later Luigi Mangione's attorney, was also Keith Raniere's attorney way back then, the NXIVM sex cult. But, um, yes, Tanny Garrigos, who was also Sean Combs's attorney, daughter of another very famous TMZ-linked attorney, Mark Garrigos. Tanny, she, I believe, is one of the accused attorneys, and she has been pretty vocal.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  And all of the accused have been pretty vocal, saying that these are lies. This is defamatory, basically. I just want to say be careful what you're posting online, as always. But with that, let's get started. I'm gonna try to give you the best reconstruction of events of October 19th, and I'm gonna tell you exactly how we did it, because there's so many little pieces of information floating around. And I just wanted a clear idea of exactly what happened that night in terms of who said what happened that night. Because one party is saying this happened, the other parties are saying this has happened. Did any of them slip up? We keep hearing like, oh, Jane Doe kept changing up her story, but maybe she's not the only one that was changing up her story. So we took Jane Doe's lawsuit as the template, since the alleged action has an accused name attached to it.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  So there's no redaction in Jane Doe's civil lawsuit. She's like, at this point, it was Jillio Lopes, for example. At this point, it was Winston Lee, for example. And so we took that as a template of the allegations in terms of timeline. So I'm not saying I took it as a template as the truth, but trying to figure out who was involved at which point of the night. And then we took that to cross-reference with other documents that are online. So we cross-referenced it with the local DA's first initial very defensive statement that we covered in the first part. Then the full six-page report that the DA apparently received, that was obtained by CBS News and released to the public. So we took that, that one has a ton of redactions.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  So from there, we're cross-referencing with Jane Doe's lawsuit of, okay, at this point, we think these people were in the room. Now, with any redactions, I cannot say with a hundred percent certainty that I think that this is the individual speaking or being spoken about. And so I'm going to try to give you as much information of why I thought it was this person, but I'm also just gonna keep saying like, maybe Winston, maybe Matthew. And that just means it's redacted. I think it might be Matthew, but it's redacted, so I can't say with certainty. But it's kind of, I would say it's somewhat easy if you pull from Jane Doe's lawsuit, because the first interaction, sexual encounter is Matthew and Jonathan, then it's Jonathan and Jillio Lopes, then it's Matthew and Winston, and that's in the faux face. So like, you can kind of see the timeline from there.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  The timeline matches up from Jane Doe and every other documents, even though they're redacted.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Yes, then from there, we cross-referenced news articles detailing snippets of Jane Doe's interviews with the Cornell Police, because some major news outlets were able to get their hands on the transcript of this, I would imagine, multi-hour-long interview that Jane Doe gave to the Cornell University Police Department. And they have just been releasing like random snippets of this transcript, and they have not been made public. So we're combing through as many articles as possible, trying to piece together the transcript, because everyone's just releasing snippets. So that's great. Then we took another lawsuit. We took John Doe's lawsuit against Cornell. We briefly went over this in part one, but one of the accused sued Cornell for the way the Title IX investigation was handled by the school. And because of that, there's a lot of snippets of this Title IX investigation that's included in the lawsuit,

• 14:12Speaker 01

  which this lawsuit, you can find it available to the public online, and it's filled with failed redactions.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Context is John Doe is one of the seven.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  He sued Cornell because?

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Because he did not agree with the conclusion Cornell came with of his involvement in the alleged crimes.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  Right, he got some sort of punishment from that?

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yes, some sort of sanction, right? And he's like, I don't like this, I don't agree with this Title IX investigation, so I'm gonna sue Cornell.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  That became, nothing fruitful came of it, but he did sue Cornell. This was actually a lawsuit that was filed before Jane Doe's lawsuit. So one of the seven sues Cornell. And this lawsuit is publicly available to you, if you just Google it and maybe go through a few links on Google. And it is filled with failed redactions. Download it, you'll see what I'm talking about, if you're a little savvy, right? So do without what you will. However, a lot of names are still redacted, meaning we had to use context clues from all the previous information to figure out who is who in this Title IX investigation, because this actually gives us a lot of direct quotes from the accused.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  It wasn't in Jane Doe's lawsuit?

• 15:18Speaker 01

  No, it was not in Jane Doe's.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  You found it from John Doe's lawsuit?

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  And that had failed redactions. But even without the failed redactions, you know, there are lots of snippets of who said what, and then judging based off of the context of, well, I came in at this time, or when I came in, this was who was in the room, you can kind of pinpoint who it is, right? Again, we can never be a hundred percent certain, so obviously, because it's redacted, we will do our best to tell you, you know, like, maybe Matthew, maybe this. But just keep in mind, at the end of the day, we're just taking some guesses. We would like to call them educated guesses, but we also did not go to Cornell, so maybe they're just guesses. But with that, let us combine it all and give you a somewhat clear timeline of who said what happened and when, and try to figure out what really happened October 19th, 2024.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Making the time out of your day to go work out, I would say, is a big deal. And then you do that only to get robbed, is the embodiment of the saying, no good deed goes unpunished. Or as I guess the gym rats would usually say, like, no pain, no gain, okay? It's a bit more positive of an outlook on life. Saturday, October 19th, 2024, Jane Doe is at Crunch Fitness. This is an off-campus gym. Someone takes her car keys without her knowing in the afternoon. So it's like 5:00 PM, she's working out, someone takes her car keys, they unlock her car, break in, slip inside, steal her wallet amongst other things, and she realizes when she sees a $400 charge to Walmart that she did not make. Her wallet is gone, her car keys are gone, someone took her wallet and is buying stuff off of Walmart.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  She says, upon discovering this, I canceled all of my debit and credit card accounts. And this is kind of pertinent later. Because of this whole gym incident, it seems like this series of events for October 19th get altered. Jane Doe was originally supposed to be a sober sister for her sorority party, meaning she was gonna be sober the entire night, and her entire task was gonna be keeping an eye on the sorority sisters at the bar that night, because they're having like a whole event at Mooney's. So they're gonna go to Mooney's, and she's gonna be sober, because she's 20, so she's not even legally of drinking age, which would make sense, but because her car keys and wallet were stolen, she had to go to the Ithaca Police Department, and the sorority was saying like, you don't have to be the sober sister, because we don't even know when you're gonna come back from the police station. And like, maybe it's just too much on your plate today. We're just gonna find a different sober sister, it's fine.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  So by the time that she makes it back to the sorority house, Tri Delta, on Cornell campus, she's like, okay, I'm no longer the sober sister, I'm gonna start drinking. So she starts drinking vodka from the bottle. She reports, I was trying to catch up to my sorority sisters, who had already started drinking 30 minutes before I did. She says that she typically doesn't drink that much alcohol, because she has POTS, which makes her feel very dizzy, and she says on top of that, that particular day, she probably ate about 400 calories the whole day. So she, she's got an empty stomach, she's taken approximately six vodka shots in a very short amount of time. She's sipping mixed drinks from her sorority sister's cups, I guess, testing out their drinks. When she gets to the Mooney's bar, she then orders another drink at the Mooney's bar, even though she's underage.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  She gets a drink called Sex on the Beach, and she believes that drink had about two alcoholic shots in there. And she has these giant X's on her hand, but they still serve her the alcohol, she says. She doesn't even have a credit card. Her friend lends him his credit card, so that she can buy this Sex on the Beach drink. And this is, you know, part of the original six-page statement that the DA received. So from there, she makes her way to the other bar, it's called like Bar 10, where another sorority, Pi Phi Phi Pi, it's another sorority, they're having a party. She stays briefly, and then she starts walking back to campus, so that she can go to the fraternity house. Remember, the whole DA was like, oh, it was a mile, and there was a lot of emphasis on the distance.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  But she's, it's interesting, because I didn't know this, but when she got to the fraternity house, I guess it's guest list only for this particular party, so she would have to prove that she knew someone inside the fraternity, that she was invited. She says, when I got there, I remember feeling numb from being cold and intoxicated. I'd been texting Matthew along the way, but when I arrived, he was no longer responding to me. So I was forced to wait outside of the fraternity. He's still not responding. So Jane notices that there's these three individuals, fraternity brothers, standing outside the front door. So she walks up to them and asks, do you guys know where Matthew is? And she reports, I said I could prove that I was a friend of Matthew's by showing them our text conversation, and they responded by saying, we know who you are, you're Jane. She says, I found this odd, because I didn't think that I had met these three individuals before,

• 19:49Speaker 01

  but they allowed me to enter the fraternity. I remember them saying something nice along the lines of like, make yourself at home, as I entered the fraternity.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  She thought it was odd.

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• 23:16Speaker 01

  She says that this particular party was not packed. Usually, the KaiFai parties, it's wall-to-wall people. People are jammed in there like sardines. This one seemed more chill. It didn't seem to be that packed at all. Walks into the main room, and she spots Matthew pretty quickly. And she's dancing with Matthew, and she says, "I was okay with dancing and being flirtatious because I was attracted to Matthew, and I was open to the idea of dating him." Remember the DA summarized the very first threesome? And like, he summarized it in a way that was so bizarre to me. I kept reading it over and over again, and I was like, asking everyone around me, like, "Does this even make sense? I don't even understand what's happening right now." But he was like, Jane Doe is asked by Matthew if they want to have a threesome, right?

• 23:59Speaker 01

  And Jane Doe is so excited because that means Matthew and Jonathan, the first person in the sexual encounter, must be gay. And I'm like, wait, what? What does that have to, right?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, she found out, and she was excited or something.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  It just kind of like, in that moment, it made her sound like an airhead. Like, "Oh my God, that means you guys are gay." Like, it just sounded bizarre. I've never seen that sort of reaction. But the six-page statement gives so much more context. Because the DA's paraphrasing doesn't give any context. It's confusing. So by way of paraphrasing, it's kind of a failure, because you're supposed to make it not confusing. But the full statement is that Matthew pulls her to the side and asks if she wants to have a threesome. And she responds by saying, "With what woman?" I responded this way because the idea of having a threesome with one male partner and two female partners is safer to me. There is a long portion that's redacted, but, her statement reads, "But Matthew asked how I would feel about having a threesome with two male partners." At first, I was kind of shocked, but I eventually agreed,

• 24:57Speaker 01

  due to how attracted I was to Matthew on top of my drunken curiousness. She says that she asked who the other party, who the other guy would be, and Matthew told her that they would find someone. Which a lot of people think is weird, because usually when you proposition someone for something as big as a threesome, especially if you're not even dating this individual. I mean, I was going through Reddit threads where people are like, even when you're in a relationship and the idea of a threesome comes up, people have someone in mind. It's like a lengthy process. It's not just like, "I'm sure we'll find a willing participant somewhere." Even in the craziest of college environments, this is kind of out there. This is kind of crazy. So it seems like people are skeptical of Matthew's intentions because it was so out there.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  He leads her upstairs, drops her off in a room with the other fraternity brother that doesn't appear to be involved in really anything. Eventually, she's led to the alumni room, and she sees Jonathan. So it's now Matthew, Jonathan, and Jane in the alumni room. And she says, "I remember being excited because I thought that Matthew and Jonathan wanting to have a threesome meant that they were gay," right? This is the paraphrasing the DA gives. But then she says, and the DA has access to this, "Which would have meant that they were part of my community as I'm bisexual. I believe I said something along the lines of like, 'I didn't know you guys were all fruity.'" And either Matthew or Jonathan responds, "Uh, I'm homo curious." And the other just laughed and didn't say anything else. I mean, that just gives so much more context.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Like, because what do you mean? You just, "I got excited because I thought they were gay." But this gives a lot more context, and also more context of why she might be more open to having a threesome, even with another woman, because she's bisexual, right? And so also, another thing to note is some netizens are saying, "This might have made her feel more comfortable, because now she almost feels like she's helping other people awaken their sexuality, and that might be something that she would feel inclined or want to help with." The report reads, "I would say that I was pretty okay with having this threesome with Jonathan and Matthew. During the threesome, I began to feel Jonathan hitting me many times on my butt, and I remember that the hits were hurting me." And she says, again, in a later statement, that she was okay with the first encounter,

• 27:13Speaker 01

  quote, "As much as I can be, because again, I was super drunk when I got there, but I was pretty okay with all of this." But she did not seem comfortable getting physically hit, she says. "And then, of course, I was being hit at the same time, like physically, very, very hard." She then states that while they're engaging in this act, Matthew was unable to maintain an erection. And apparently, Matthew says, according to Jane Doe, quote, "I'm gonna die." Jane says that she was confused because she wasn't sure if he was serious about dying, or if this was a joke, or if like, something was happening, because this is after she claims that they did ketamine, Jamaican weed, and all of these other things. And so she's kind of freaking out, and she seems to be taking it upon herself to take care of both Matthew and now Jonathan, because now Jonathan is like, dry heaving into a trash can somewhere.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  And she keeps waking up Matthew every few minutes. She's helping Jonathan, trying to throw up, even though he does not end up throwing up. Now, on the flip side, Matthew Ingalls, in his written statement, claims that Jane Doe did not take any ketamine before this first sexual encounter. He also states that he took a lot. He says that he only really knows how much he did, which was multiple kees worth. I guess that's, I guess maybe in like cocaine sense, which is a little more common. It's like multiple lines, perhaps. But key is, I guess, a measurement for cocaine. You like, put it on it. I don't know. And he snorted multiple lines or kees worth in rapid succession. He says, "No less than 10 minutes after consuming the ketamine, I began to struggle breathing, gasping for breath, and groaning uncomfortably. Several times, I lost consciousness momentarily.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  I was too incapacitated to consent to sexual activity anymore." Matthew is the one that is now accusing Jane Doe potentially of SA. There's a crazy email that he had, crazy as an opinion, you know? Crazy email that he had sent to the Title IX investigators, where he said that he was, there were rumors that he was sodomized by Jane Doe, and that he felt the Title IX investigation was completely being steamrolled by gender politics and, you know?

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Wait, how legitimate is this email?

• 29:16Speaker 01

  The email seems legitimate.

• 29:18Speaker 02

  Okay, he's telling the...

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Title IX investigator.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  That he has been...

• 29:25Speaker 01

  It's kind of vague. It's like, "I told you in November that I believed I was sodomized." That's kind of the paraphrasing that I'm giving of this email.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  I see, I see.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  But it's vague. We don't know for sure. But he, it seems like he's consistently kind of throwing back the idea that he was more incapacitated, which means that he would have been the one that's essayed. He says that, "I attempted to remain conscious. I could feel my face, you know, contorting as if I was crying, but no tears came out. That was the last clear memory I have up until that point." He then recalls Jonathan was throwing up into a trash can, while he's on the bed now, trying to remain functional, right? But it's interesting, because he was still able to maintain enough function to send multiple messages into the KaiFai Snapchat. So there is that. Jonathan Newell, in his alleged statement to the Title IX investigators,

• 30:19Speaker 01

  and this is like, redacted, his name is redacted, but I think it's Jonathan because the timeline adds up, right? So the thing with Matthew, however, is he is involved in the Title IX investigation, but he is one of the seven accused, the only of the seven accused, that does not do interviews with the Title IX investigation. He gives one written statement, and that's about it. It's interesting, because Matthew Ingalls' dad is allegedly an educator. He's high up on a school board in Dubai for an American college. So people speculate that maybe his dad has extensive knowledge of Title IX investigations, and how they are not criminal investigations, and how you do not have to partake in them, so that he's the only one that gave a written statement instead of multiple interviews.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Some of these other guys, I mean, they were interviewed in January, multiple times in March, May. Like, there's a series of interviews that are had. And some of their stories evolve as well. So if we're gonna say Jane Doe's story is evolving, the accused, some of their stories are also evolving. I'm not gonna tell you how much weight to put into all of this, but it would make sense that at some point Matthew and Jonathan's statements are similar. Because I mean, that would make the most sense. Jonathan also agrees that during that initial encounter, Jane Doe declined the ketamine. So she did not do ketamine before the very first sexual encounter. That's what Jonathan and Matthew were both claiming. But then later, in a statement, Jonathan says that they pulled out the bag of ketamine,

• 31:47Speaker 01

  asked if Jane wanted some, and she said no, because she'd never done it before. So they didn't ask again. They didn't ask again, right? That's key. However, later, he talks about what substances were given to Jane, and he responds in that interview, I guess ketamine, alcohol, weed. Me and Matthew Ingles did it. We offered it to her. She chose to take it. We didn't force her to do anything. Did you give it to her and she declined? And then you never pushed her again? And then you never gave her ketamine? You never offered ketamine again? Or did she take it and you did not push her to take it? I mean, it's just, they're two vastly very different things. But the very first sexual encounter occurs, and when they take a break because Matthew wanted to sleep, Jonathan is feeling nauseous. Also, I believe this is Jonathan in the redactions because it makes the most sense.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  But it appears maybe Jonathan is asked about if he was smacking Jane Doe's buttocks during the initial encounter. And he claims that it was actually the other party. He's asked about how many times the other participant struck Jane Doe. He says, after the first one, she asked him to do it again. He says Jane never indicated that she was in any pain, and he was also unsure if it was a striking, or a grabbing, or a squeezing situation. He also can't remember which hand was used by the other participant.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  Okay, so Jonathan's saying Matthew's doing a smacking.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yes, but he's also like, I don't know if it was smacking, or if it was squeezing, or grabbing. I also don't know which hand. I also don't know how many times it happened, but I don't think it was me. And there's a lot of things that he doesn't think. He also reports not remembering sending the initial free pussy alum PU Snapchat, so yeah. Okay. When those Snapchat messages comes up, he, maybe Jonathan says, I don't remember using my phone at any point that night. So I don't remember sending that text. I was honestly kind of mortified when I saw it was me. He says that this has occurred before, though, where he had sent a message without remembering. He said it happened the last time he blacked out, which is just fucking fantastic, isn't it? Because now a bunch of fraternity brothers are gonna walk into the alumni room for whatever

• 33:42Speaker 01

  reason, and this incident is going to get exponentially messier. But also, is he blacked out? Is he not blacked out? Like, there's so much gray area. Back to Jane, though. She says that Jillio Lopes walks in, because it's his room, there's three beds, a lot of fraternity brothers live here. He's reportedly the first to walk in. So now it's Jane, Matthew, Jonathan, and Jillio. He pulls Jane in for a kiss, and Jonathan starts coming up behind her, and according to her, basically groping her. She says she doesn't remember much of the sexual interaction with Jillio Lopes and Jonathan because, quote, "I was pretty intoxicated." The original report that the DA receives reads, "I remember hearing redacted and redacted say something about having a turn.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  After hearing that, I realized that the threesomes I had taken part in that night were not about each person getting their own gratification out of it, but more so about redacted and redacted using me without caring about what I was getting out of the situation. This made me feel really uncomfortable in the moment." She says that she felt really used. Then she says Matthew wakes up, sees activity going on between Jillio Lopes and Jonathan and Jane, and according to Jane, says something along the lines of, "Hell, yeah." That's when he said he wanted to make it a foursome. Jane Doe declines. There is a portion of the Title IX investigation, which I think could be attributed to Jillio Lopes and his interviews. I don't know with certainty, like the other times, but I was able to cross-reference some information.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Maybe Jillio states to the Title IX panel that during his interactions with Jane in the alumni room, she seemed very positive, smiling, engaged, talkative. Said that everything was completely consensual, the sexual stuff. She did not seem incapacitated. And another one of the accused, who apparently witnessed the kiss between Jane and Jillio, says, "My roommate Jillio walks in the room, Jane invites him in, they start kissing and talking, and I hear like from the side, her telling him like, 'You don't know how long I've wanted to do this.'" And eventually, they start having sex on the bed.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Wait, who is this witness?

• 35:45Speaker 01

  I think it's Jonathan. Again, it's redacted, right? But from what I could piece together from these redactions, what I concluded, and this is not a fact, this is just what I'm trying to decipher from the document, and that could not be the truth at all, whatever's in the document could also not be the truth, right? We don't know what the truth is. But it seems like maybe Jonathan is insinuating. Jillio walks in, they start making out, and Jane is like, "You don't know how long I've been wanting to do this." They get on the bed, they start having sexual activities, and Jonathan makes it almost seem like, well, maybe Jonathan makes it almost seem like, he's not involved in that second interaction. Matthew's passed out, and he says, "I'm still on the couch, still nauseous, like throwing up." And like, these are the context clues I'm using to believe that this is Jonathan.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Hmm, I see. Right, because the first one, she said she was okay with it.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  But the second one, he's saying, "I'm not a part of it."

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Jillio just walked in.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  And she seemed like she wanted this. She said, "You don't know how long I've wanted to do this."

• 36:46Speaker 02

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  And they went to the bed, "I'm throwing up."

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Uh huh, but Jane Doe's saying, no, he's...

• 36:53Speaker 01

  He was involved, and it was rape.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  He states, "I don't remember having sex from that point I threw up to when I went to bed. I feel like I would remember it, but it's possible it did happen."

• 37:06Speaker 02

  It's possible it did happen?

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is kind of vague, okay? Whereas Jane says it was Jillio and Jonathan. And again, I'm not saying one story is truer than the other, but I will say, hello? Eventually, Jillio Lopes leaves the room. Then walk in Diego Sarabia and Winston Lee. They enter the room. It seems like they enter separately, but that's the timeline of when they come into the alumni room. And according to Jane Doe, a ton of guys start coming in. And I know it sounds like just two guys walk in, but it's gonna be four, because the two Scots come in, Jillio later stops by again. So it is a lot of action of people moving in and out of the alumni room. And I'm sure maybe there were other times where maybe someone had poked their head in, I don't know.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  But according to Jane Doe, there's a lot of guys coming in and out of the room, and she is freaking out because she's unclothed and she's just hiding under the covers, naked. She says at some point, one of the guys says something very offensive to her. The report reads, "I don't remember exactly what he said to me. I instantly became defensive, and I sat up quickly in the bed to confront," I think it's Diego, but again, don't take it with full certainty, "about what he said to me. And in doing so, the covers had fallen off my breasts, which are now exposed to everyone in the room." She's saying like, "I'm defending myself, I'm getting passionate, and the covers are slipping down." She says, "I was defending myself, yelling at him, he apologized, and grabbed my face and started kissing me. I quickly backed away to stop redacted from kissing me, and I remember not having many

• 38:32Speaker 01

  emotions at that point, because I was starting to become completely numb to the whole situation. I remember the room we were in had red lights on that were pretty hurtful to my eyes. Also, I remember someone bringing up the scars that I had on my legs from SH that I had done in August of that year. Hearing that my scars were brought up, but no one cared to ask about them, made me feel super isolated, and I don't even matter as a person to these men. Adding to my feelings of isolation was the fact that my phone was across the room, and I felt like I couldn't get to it. As well as, I didn't have any form of payment to order an Uber to get out of the situation I was in, because, remember, she had canceled all her cards earlier that day."

• 39:09Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 39:10Speaker 01

  She says, "At that point, I was still angry with the person who offended her," said that rude remark. "So I stood up and I began flexing towards him." So this was like a huge point, the internet picked up of like, why is she flexing? Why is she getting up naked? She's saying, "I was so scared, I got up naked, and then I started flexing." People are like, what's happening? You're either scared and hiding under the covers, or you're getting up and showing off your body and flexing and consenting to at least visually being seen by people, unclothed. She says, "I was still angry, so I stood up and began flexing towards him while telling him that I would mess him up. I also felt like it was a primitive self-defense manner as a reaction to the situation I was in." It sounds very confusing, right? It's a little difficult to understand.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  However, earlier in the statement, remember how I told you that she only ate 400 calories that day? She is a weightlifter. She's a bodybuilder.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  So it seems like she takes it very seriously. She ate 400 calories of chicken and rice. She was at Crunch Fitness. I don't know how serious, I don't know if she's involved in any competitions or anything like that, but it does seem like this could be additional context of why someone would get up and start flexing. And people do report, she kept doing like a bodybuilder pose. So again, I think a lot of people were thrown off by that, like, what do you mean, she's doing a bodybuilder pose? This is some context. You can still have the opinion that it is very odd and something that you would not do in her situation, but it is just further context that I think is necessary. The report continues to read, "I realized that I was standing in front of the group of men completely naked, so I sat back down on the bed and tried to cover myself with my arms as best as I could, so I wasn't completely exposed." She later describes

• 40:49Speaker 01

  the situation as being surrounded by a ton of men and feeling a severe power imbalance. Whereas, who I believe to be Diego in the John Doe redactions, and I believe this to be his statement, I could be wrong, though, look up the John Doe lawsuit yourself, maybe Diego says, "Basically Jane just asked more about my involvement at Cornell." So he's just saying, "I walked into the alumni room and I was just having a little chit chat with Jane. They have the same major, so we started talking and bonding over our majors. And then, at some point in that conversation, I just remember her smiling and kind of leaning in towards me a little bit. And then eventually I leaned in as well. Then I recall our lips touched in kind of like a pecking kissing motion for maybe two or three seconds. And then I pulled my head away because I realized that there are other people in the room and

• 41:32Speaker 01

  I did not want to be kissing someone." Which is, again, I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying-

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Weird order of events.

• 41:41Speaker 01

  And it's really weird usage. You're telling me a bunch of fraternity brothers who are writing "free pussy alum pull up." You don't want PDA in front of your fraternity brothers. You don't even want to kiss someone in front of them.

• 41:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but also, who just, like, kiss and then realize, like, that's really odd?

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very odd.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Anyways.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Not saying it's untrue, it's just odd. He says that while all of this is happening, Jane Doe seemed happy and did not seem incapacitated at all. He describes the group as appearing joyous and happy. Sometimes these fraternity brothers use words that boggle my fucking mind. What do you mean joyous and happy? You're gonna, you're gonna roll over because there's another guy who says some insane stuff. One thing to note is, and this is, could be speculation on my part, but going through some of these Title IX snippets and interviews by the redacted individuals, you can kind of see cliques, even within the fraternity brothers. It seems that, to me, from my observation,

• 42:44Speaker 01

  it seems that Matthew, Jonathan, and Winston are closer. It seems Jillio Lopes is kind of in doing his own thing. And then it seems the two Scots and Diego are very close. And the two Scots seem further removed than Diego from the others. Okay, this is all important because there's a separate fraternity room where the two Scots are hanging out with Diego before they go to the alumni room.

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• 47:41Speaker 01

  So you got two Scots and Diego. Diego's sitting there, and the two Scots say, out of nowhere, Diego just kind of like gets up out of the room and leaves. We don't know what happened, you know, and the two Scots are like, "We're doing our own thing. We're watching some TV." And then one of the Scots, his vape pen dies. And this is like the trigger event of all of this, okay? So his vape pen is dead, and he's like, "What am I gonna do? My vape pen is dead. Hey, one of the guys that lives in the alumni room has a vape pen. We should go there. And hey, maybe that's where Diego went, because did you see this Snapchat? Is that where Diego left to? We should go investigate." So there's like a lot of weird things that are being claimed. However, Diego, based off of the context,

• 48:23Speaker 01

  I think this is Diego's statement from the John Doe lawsuit, but a lot of these guys are asked, "What did you think when you saw the Snapchat message? Why did you go to the alumni room? Especially if you are not a resident of the alumni room, why did you go to the alumni room?" And this is maybe Diego's response, and it reads, "Basically, I just kind of questioned it, because it's something I've never seen before in my entire four years living in the KiFi house." It's just like, okay, I don't know what that means.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  Question what?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  He just questioned the free pussy alum PU chat, because he's like, "I just questioned it."

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Right. We are all questioning what that means, right?

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  What, whoever sent that, question marks, what do you mean by that?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Right?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he says, and this I think is Diego, but, I mean, they all kind of give similar responses to the Snapchat. And the Snapchat itself is not a criminal act. It could probably be, I don't know, if it's, it's probably admissible, but you get what I'm saying. I'm not accusing them of a crime by what they're saying about this Snapchat group. But he says, someone says, "I honestly did not have a great understanding of what was happening at the time, but was very concerned and just overall curious about the matter."

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Hmm, concerned.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  And overall curious about the matter.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Just like objectively a fucking odd statement. I don't know what's happening, but I'm very concerned. Overall, curious about the matter. The matter being a Snapchat that reads, "Free pussy alum pull up." Then another one of the accused that was in the room that time says that when they saw Jane and Diego kissing, they were quote, "kind of laughing about it after." So a lot of the accused are saying, "Well, I saw some other people engaged in sexual activities, and they all seemed happy." Jane Doe reports that she did not recognize a lot of the faces in the room. So she quote, "I remember grabbing redacted's arm. We don't know who this could be. We could presume it's Matthew, but it's unclear. And I grabbed his arm at some point, and I remember saying to him, 'I don't know who any of these people are.'" Redacted replied by laughing and asking if I wanted to do more ketamine.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  "When he asked that, it hit me that I had taken ketamine on the couch with Matthew and Jonathan earlier in the night." Redacted would later tell me that I had also smoked marijuana from a large bong, as well as consumed Jamaican liquor while on the couch with him. And, um, redacted, "So I remember smoking marijuana, but the ketamine and Jamaican liquor, I have zero memory of." She says, "All I could remember was the feeling that I had already done ketamine." So this is a huge point of contention. In Jane Doe's lawsuit, she brings up before the initial threesome, that they ask her if she wants ketamine, and she feels like they're pushing her. That's kind of the vague language she gives. It's never straightforward of, "I did the ketamine right before the act." It's vague. However, during the Title IX investigations, the Title IX panel,

• 51:07Speaker 01

  this is not a criminal investigation, but they concluded that they believe Jane's statements of taking ketamine. They believe that her not remembering the first time she took ketamine is on par with people taking ketamine, because it is kind of a dissociating drug where you may not remember taking it. On top of that, they think that her candor, her honesty of being so straightforward of like, "I think I took it on the couch, because I have this feeling," they think that actually goes against her credibility. And she, if she really wanted to have this story be believed, she would just say, "I did take the ketamine." Whereas the guys, they, the panel points out in their decision, they have differing, Matthew and Jonathan, and then it's specifically Jonathan is like, "Well, she didn't want the ketamine." And then later, he's like, "Yeah, we gave her ketamine."

• 51:51Speaker 01

  So it's very, they, they're inclined to believe Jane's story, that this is now the second time. She says, "I thought if I do ketamine again, maybe I'll pass out. My thought was, if I pass out and these men had sex with me, they could be charged with rape." At that point, they poured a line of ketamine, and she says that she did it from Jonathan's erect private part. She snorted it. She says, "I snorted the line of ketamine, which was a heavy amount of ketamine. I know it was a heavy amount based on how hard it hit me. At that point, I was back under the covers, and redacted got under the covers with me, where he again tried reaching for the area of my vagina." Side note, I will say, some of the accused will either claim that they never saw her do that second hit of ketamine, or that the timing of when they came into the alumni room was

• 52:34Speaker 01

  after they, she did the ketamine. It's just everyone saying, "I didn't see any drugs." Or others that said they saw it were like, "She didn't do it off of Jonathan's body part. She did it off of a key, like we all did, because that's how you do ketamine." As for Jonathan, he says he has no recollection of Jane Doe doing ketamine off of his body, but he also acknowledged, quote, "There are pieces of his memory that he just can't remember." This is the panel decision. "Holes in his memory from that night." He also says he doesn't remember if he did ketamine off of Jane's body, but that it definitely could have happened. Jane Doe's statement continues, "At that point, the group of men began flooding me with compliments about my body. All of them were talking about how pretty I was, which was very confusing to me, because although it's very nice to hear those things being said, I was still very uncomfortable with the situation I was in."

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Okay, side note, this is an opinion by a lot of netizens, and it's a very nuanced opinion that I think a lot of people are going to be upset about. I'm not saying I agree with this opinion, but it's just food for thought. Some people are saying, "This statement is very interesting, because she's saying they're complimenting me, and they're all saying how perfect my body is. People thought, 'Oh, this girl is so insecure and so vain.'" She's like, "Oh, my God, you think my body is perfect? Yeah, douche lines of ketamine off of me." But some netizens are saying, "This sounds like a group of men who are humiliating you and coercing you into things. All of them are complimenting your perfect body, and she's saying, 'I'm still very uncomfortable.'" Maybe she feels it's not genuine. Maybe she feels that there's something weird going on.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  It's just a very odd statement. I think people are trying to wrap their minds around, and I think a lot of people are pulling from their own anecdotal experience of being around certain people. That does not mean that that's what these seven were doing, but it's interesting. It's food for thought. She says, "Shortly after that, I believe it was redacted, and everyone fights about who asked the question of if they can do ketamine off of her body first." So the seven accused are fighting about who it was, right? So we don't know, but one of them asks if they could do drugs off of her perfect body. She says, "Seeing as I was already laying down and feeling extremely tired, I told him, 'Sure.' And then a group of men all started pouring various things all over my body. I couldn't tell what they were pouring on me as I had my face covered with my hands."

• 54:42Speaker 01

  They allegedly snort ketamine off of her unclothed body, and this point becomes a huge debate because of the words, "I had my face covered with my hands." A lot of the defense attorneys and a lot of the Title IX investigation was pushing back on, then how do you know who took ketamine off your body if you weren't seeing it? It's a whole thing. But that is where I leave you with the first half of this audio episode. Stay tuned for the second half, because we're going to go over the other accused's statements to Title IX, as well as what Jane said happened after the fact of when she went back to her sorority house, how the rumors started on campus, and all of the text messages that came after that. Stay tuned, stay safe, and I will see you in the next one.

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