Pathological Liar Kills Beloved Dentist Through Manipulation & ALMOST Gets Away With Murder

There are 2 younger women sitting around a table at a trap house in Dallas, Texas. They’re both Latina with a bit of baby fat in their cheeks - but they’re not just some college students looking to buy drugs. They’re here to sell them – a lot of them. One of the 2 women – she’s a narco with deep connections in Mexico. The other woman? Just a Spanish/English translator for her boss, the narco, and the dealer of the trap house, a man named Love. They need someone to move product for them and since Love has connections in the US - this deal could mean a lump sum of drugs and cash PLUS a lifetime supply from the cartel. He just needs to earn their trust. How? Kill someone. But not just anyone. They already have the target picked out. A 35 year old pediatric dentist named Kendra Hatcher. Why would the cartels want to kill a random dentist for children in Dallas, Texas? Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

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  Usually, movies like to exaggerate things. But when it comes to trap houses, maybe the movies are going a little bit light. A trap house typically refers to a place like an empty house or an apartment that is used for the purposes of selling drugs, illegal gambling, and sex work. But mainly drugs. So think of it as like a very, very illegal CBS. You walk in, you hope not to step on anyone that's slumped over on the floor. You pay for your drugs and you leave with every intention that you're going to feel better after you take these drugs. Some people like to loiter through the high of their recently acquired purchase, hence, you know, the people laying on the floor at most trap houses. It's a very common sight. Each trap house, though, is going to be a little bit different.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Some of them just are non-government approved pharmacies where transactions are made. Others serve as manufacturing points, where the drugs themselves are created, but not in a lab, in the kitchen. And they're all lumped together and people just call them trap houses. It said the term comes from the fact that trap houses were known to only have one door in and out. So there's only one way in, there's only one way out, so that nobody could rob the pharmacist, the dealer. Yeah. But others say that's not entirely true, because no smart dealer is going to keep their stash in their trap house. They're gonna have a separate house called the stash house. But who are we to dissect someone's business model? Nevertheless, there are two younger women

• 2:51Speaker 01

  standing at what appears to be the only entrance into this trap house, trap apartment. They look a tad bit out of place. They both look Latina with a bit of like baby fat in their cheeks, which makes them look even younger than they already are. And they kind of look like the types of girls that you would see like at a receptionist's desk, at a doctor's office, a dentist's office. But instead, here they are at the front door of a trap apartment in Dallas, Texas. Which is not to say that there is like a look to someone who finds themselves addicted to substances, but they just look a little bit out of place. Especially when you hear the reason that they're in this trap house to begin with. They are not here to purchase drugs. They're here to sell them, a lot of them.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  This is a business deal, a proposition for the owner of the trap house, who is ironically named Love. And like any good business proposal, the details are going to be ironed out by both parties. One of the two women, she's a narco with deep connections to a cartel in Mexico. The other woman, she's just the translator. So she's translating everything the other one says in Spanish, translating it's English for Love. They likely need someone to move products for them. And since Love already deals drugs, has connections in the U.S., it could be a profitable business deal for both parties. But the cartels don't just trust anybody, especially a complete outsider like Love with no ties to the cartel. He's just an American man.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  The three of them are sitting around Love's kitchen table and the younger woman, the translator, informs Love, before we can enter this very profitable business agreement, the type of business agreement that has the potential to turn Love into one of the biggest dealers north of the border. This deal is gonna give him a lump sum of drugs and cash on signing. Well, it's more like a handshake. Plus, a lifetime of drugs from the cartels.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Is this Love's house, apartment?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Now, the only thing Love needs to do is earn the trust of the cartels. How? It's very simple. Kill someone. And not just anyone. They've already picked out the target. A 35-year-old pediatric dentist. Her name is Kendra Hatcher. And in order for this to work, Love needs to kill her first. Okay? Maybe this is some sort of initiation to say that you can get blood on your hands, but also it doesn't make any sense. Why would the cartels want to kill a random dentist for children in Texas? They want her dead so much so that they're offering Love the chance to become one of the biggest drug lords in America, just to get it done? Why do the cartels want her dead so badly?

• 5:52Speaker 01

  We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support Dentists Who Care, a nonprofit that provides free urgent dental care for uninsured children and adults, provided by volunteer dentists across the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers. And we'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. Today's case has brief mentions of gun violence, stalking, relational violence, and a very brief description of stress related to immigration status. Viewer discretion is advice. Statements and quotes may be condensed for brevity. And with that said, let's begin. Grey's Anatomy is a show about a fictional hospital in Seattle called Grey Sloan Memorial, where you watch doctors fall in love with their very attractive colleagues

• 6:37Speaker 01

  while also having the bandwidth to save lives here and there. It's a great show that is like kind of about medicine, kind of. It's like 35% medicine, 65% really hot, conventionally attractive doctors falling in love with other really hot, conventionally attractive doctors. Which sounds like something that only happens in TV shows. But Dr. Hatcher starts living her own Grey's Anatomy, to some degree that is. She's a pediatric dentist, which, okay, to me, I feel like being a dentist. But pediatric is just on steroids. All day, you're fixing cavities, drilling, pulling teeth, trying to maintain a conversation with someone while shoving a hose down their throat. And at least adult patients, they begrudgingly cooperate.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  They're quick to accept their fate. They lay there, they stare at the TV on the ceiling and basically disassociate for 45 minutes while trying not to drool over themselves. Pediatric dentistry is that on steroids. It's another level. You're doing all of that, but now you have to convince an undeveloped frontal lobe of a toddler that cooperating is in their best interest. It's like negotiating with a bank robber. They can cry, hit, full on attempt a prison break. And when the treatment is really, really important, sometimes that mini sized bank robber has to get strapped down to the chair, exorcism style. And I would imagine if it were up to the children, if they knew what Google reviews were, they would leave scathing reviews of their experience at the dental office. Because what kid likes a dentist? Apparently, that sentiment does not apply to Kendra. Kids have handwritten letters for her

• 8:08Speaker 01

  after their dentist's experience. It's almost like she's their Santa Claus. And eventually, not that she needs it by any means to have like a fulfilling life, but Kendra does have her own Grey's Anatomy moment storyline, if you will. She meets a doctor, Ricky the dermatologist. "Living out my childhood dream as a physician. Very happy and in a great place in life. Enjoy running, exploring places new to me, and opening the car door for my date." That's what Ricky's Tinder profile read. Kendra swipes right. Their first date is at a restaurant called The Cozy Kitchen. And it's like one of those, um, I guess it's like one of those montages that you do see in Grey's Anatomy, where you see three months of their lives, just in little snippets and blurbs. They travel together for work.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  They go to Ricky's twenty year old reunion, school reunion, which is a pretty big deal. They ride tandem bikes that hopefully Ricky is putting on most of the work. They're meeting each other's family members, even the more mundane. Ricky is bringing dinner over to Kendra's house so that she can have a warm meal right after she gets home from work. It's very Grey's Anatomy, which Kendra even picks up on because she wore this really cute cheesy pink t-shirt to one of their dates that reads, "I'm with McDreamy," which is a big Grey's Anatomy reference. He's the main male lead, Doctor Derek Shepherd, who is married to Meredith Grey, the main lead in the show. And just like the show, Derek Shepherd, right, good guy, but Meredith Grey is kind of the prize.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  For Ricky, I'm sure meeting Kendra is, I guess like meeting is Meredith Grey. So before meeting Kendra, he was actually in therapy. He was very concerned and worried about how he tends to shut people out. And he said, quote, "I feel like I'm guarded in a relationship. I feel like I can kind of get to a certain point and then I just, I just can't let them in." Those feelings seem to dissipate when he meets Kendra. Ricky says Kendra was able to enter that space. I mean, it was palpable. And it's not just his love life that falls into place. It's like Kendra uplifts every aspect of his entire existence. He had this dermatology presentation that he was so nervous about. He practiced his full speech in front of Kendra and her best friend, just because the act of prepping and prepping with Kendra would calm him down. He starts joining Kendra for runs, exercising more.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  She even convinces him to get fitted for one of those, those whitening retainers for his teeth, which is very much a girlfriend thing to do. She's a dentist. I mean, of course, at some point, she's going to be looking at his teeth. I mean, she's kind of perfect. She majored in biochemistry and Spanish. During the holidays, she would volunteer traveling all the way to Central America to offer her services. I mean, she was just perfect. And there's this thing that she would do whenever she would, he'd be like, oh, let me bring dinner to your place. She would correct him and say, "our place," which is exactly where Ricky is right now, is at Kendra's, well, their place, eating tacos at the taco stand outside. So the apartment building, he's getting into the spirit, if you will, because tomorrow he and Kendra are going on their vacation to Cancun.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  So if it were up to him, she would be home eating tacos with him at the taco stand across from the apartment building, but she's running a few errands before they head off to Cancun tomorrow. I mean, maybe it's like for the best, actually. There has been a bit of commotion in the apartment building. It's not big. It's not like there's a fire, but there seems to be a heavy presence of police vehicles and the parking lots of the building has been taped off. It's not until Ricky is almost done and finished with his meal, he overhears the table next to him, and they're talking about what happened over there. And one of them responds, "I think a woman was shot." Yeah, I think a woman was shot. There's no panic that registers in Ricky, though, because it's clearly not Kendra. I mean, she's out running errands.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Besides, they're talking about how they're going to move to California. So Ricky's moving to California in five months. Kendra was thinking about moving out with him, and they're talking about how they should save up for a wedding. So there's no way it's Kendra, okay? Ricky ubers back to his apartment and he focuses on making sure this trip is going to be perfect. He's calling his bank to ask about international transaction fees for his credit card. Ricky sends Kendra a text message, letting her know, "There's something going on at the entrance of your parking garage? You're not going to be able to drive into your underground parking lot." When Detective Barnes with Dallas PD gets a call about a homicide. He's already on his way home. He just finished a full shift, but there's apparently no other homicide detectives available. So they call him in and he immediately turns around.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  And he details, when he first gets there, there's not really a lot going on. Like, no one can really tell him much. It's a robbery gone wrong in a luxury apartment building in Uptown Dallas, which is typically a very wealthy area with very little crime. He arrives on the scene, there's cruisers, there's fire trucks all around, there's an unused ambulance, already long gone, all at the entrance of this gated parking garage. It's at street level and then it starts sloping down. So you just drive and it's kind of, you know, like those sloped parking garages. And Detective Barnes arrives and some of the other officers are there briefing him. Two sixteen year olds were walking to their car in the garage when they heard tires, a woman scream, and then a gunshot. They booked it to their car, locked the doors and called 911.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  The 911 call, you can hear the teenager say, "Someone just got shot in the parking lot of Gables Park Seventeen. She had a little hole and there was blood coming out of her throat." They say, "All I heard was screaming and then a loud pop. Her phone's on the floor, her car doors open, I remember it vividly." Detective Barnes walks into the parking garage with the other officers. It's mainly packed. You know, there's resident vehicles everywhere, but there's also this one area where next to a white Toyota, there's two empty parking spots. And instead of a car, there's a body laying there. There are these very long, like, for lack of a better word, they look like tentacles, like streaks of blood, it just stagnant blood that's leaking from a young woman's head. And it's just leaking down the slope of the parking garage.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  The woman's head and her hair is matted with blood and flesh. She's dead. Her purse is gone, which is consistent with the report of a robbery gone wrong. But her phone is still there. And it's very clear who she is because they run the tags on the white Toyota who belonged, which belongs to her. But also, right on her medical scrubs, her name is spelled out, Doctor Kendra Hatcher. Even before talks of the cartel being involved in this case. And all of that gets to Detective Barnes. He's already very confused by this because technically, at first glance, sure, it could appear like a robbery gone wrong. Her purse is gone, but next to Kendra is a fully loaded magazine with thirteen live rounds. So you know the part of the gun where you keep the bullets?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they dropped it?

• 14:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, they dropped it, or it was an extra magazine that slipped out of someone's pockets. They test it, no fingerprints, but it feels like someone got lucky with that. It doesn't seem like it was intentionally left as some sort of message or clue or signature. Like, this magazine just feels accidentally left behind. This feels clumsy.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  The robbery theory doesn't make sense either. Carrying out a robbery in an upscale apartment building that requires a key fob to get into the parking lot, most would assume that there are CCTV cameras pointed at the entrances, and they would assume correctly. It's so audacious and blatant, there's no cover up, really. But it's also like simultaneously clumsy and it just doesn't make any sense. Also, who would want to kill a thirty-five year old dentist who has no real enemies? At least not that the police can quickly identify. It doesn't make any sense. Step one to becoming one of the bigger drug lords operating in North America might be, you just have to become an Olympian first. Just become an Olympic snowboarder and the rest will be history.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Ryan Wedding might be the blueprint of allegedly becoming one of the bigger drug lords in all of North America, allegedly because he has pled not guilty. Though he is accused of rising to a high ranking Sinaloa cartel affiliate position, where he was allegedly nicknamed Giant or El Jefe.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Wait, so who is this?

• 16:09Speaker 01

  He was an Olympic snowboarder for Canada. And then he was arrested in January of this year for running one of the biggest drug distributions from Colombia through Mexico, through the United States into Canada, operating one of the biggest cocaine markets in all of Canada, is what he's accused of doing. He said he didn't do it. Prosecutors accuse him of building his own wedding criminal enterprise, is what they say, stating that he was the single largest cocaine supplier in Canada, which obviously lands him in more trouble in the United States, landing him in the FBI top ten most wanted list, which more on that later, because someone involved in this case is going to end up on that very same list.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  But according to prosecutors, Ryan would move product, mainly cocaine, that was cooked and quality tested in Colombian kitchens, smuggle it through Mexico via cartel boats and planes owned by the Sinaloa cartel, smuggle them across the US Mexico border in a long haul semi truck with stash houses all throughout LA Riverside, San Bernardino, before they make it across the US Canada border, which was his target final market. So, you know, after representing Canada in the Olympics as a snowboarder, he started selling, well, at least he was very consistent with his love for snow, I guess. But authorities believe he ordered dozens of murders, placing multimillion dollar bounties on potential federal witnesses

• 17:33Speaker 01

  who were going to testify against him, basically snitches.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  He killed witnesses?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  It's alleged that he put bounties on. It's not alleged that he's the one that pulled the trigger, per se.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  But there are people who were killed.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, one of them was basically killed in a restaurant, just publicly killed in a restaurant.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  That is wild.

• 17:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. To their estimate, prosecutors estimate, he was generating over a billion dollars in annual revenue, making him one of Canada's largest cocaine suppliers. Though it is unclear, I will say, how much his personal cut was. He was arrested earlier this year, but the reason the case has gained so much attention is, um, how the hell did an Olympian snowboarder become one of the largest drug lords in North America? How does anyone become a drug lord in North America, one of the bigger ones? The answer is usually simple. You just have to prove yourself.

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• 21:02Speaker 01

  Jose Luis Ortiz never had plans to become a drug lord. In fact, he probably would have despised every concept of that, okay? Everything he does is to ensure the success of his tiny little auto shop, which is his own little business, okay? This is the exact opposite of a drug lord. If there was ever an honest living, it would probably be Jose's living. He's basically done everything by the book. So why is he panicking, watching the evening news? He's panicking so much that he's even pulling out his phone, Googling what they're saying on TV, just to confirm. And he confirms, this is bad. This is really bad. You know what a BOLO is? It's a be on the lookout.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  Typically, the point of a BOLO is to plaster it everywhere, so everyone in the area, officers, citizens, generally, everyone in town can be on the lookout. And on the phone and on the TV, there's a BOLO for a Jeep. It's a very unique Jeep. There's distortions on the hood. The wheels are custom, very rare rims. The paint is also distinct. Jose's looking at the TV, he's looking at his phone, and he's looking out the window where the identical Jeep is sitting parked in his driveway. Why are they looking for his Jeep? It's connected to the local murder of a pediatric dentist. Like I said, it's bad. It's really bad. How do you explain to police, okay, yes, that is my car, but I had nothing to do with this? Really? I don't know. I don't know how you explain it.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  But Jose's gonna try to explain it, even though sometimes people are not fair to people who look like Jose and aren't named Jose. But Jose's gonna try because he knows he has, I mean, he has nothing to do with any of this. He doesn't even know who was murdered. He just hopes the police will see that.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Police posted a photo of his truck, exactly?

• 22:43Speaker 01

  Yes, everywhere, multiple photos, different angles from CCTV camera inside of Kendra's apartment parking garage.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Oh, that's, okay, got it.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  But you can't really see the driver. But Jose's like, that's my car. How am I gonna convince them that I had nothing to do with this?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  How does he know that's his car, though?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  There's distortions on the hood that are exact. The wheels are so unique and rare, he's never seen another Jeep with this. That's his car. He knows it's his car. You know, and he, he's sitting in there, light gray baseball cap, he's hunched forward in the interrogation room. They, they brought him into an interrogation room, which is not a great sign. This is like the end-all, be-all of interrogation rooms, completely beige room. They have beige paneling. It looks like some sort of foam panel that absorbs echo, so you know, the audio recording comes out great. And they've just like, put it up, or maybe they just put it up to drive someone crazy, who knows? There's a small desk pushed up against the wall. Jose explains the entire story to the detectives. He's explaining, okay, yeah, it sounds crazy.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Trillion percent confident, that's my Jeep in the BOLO. And that's my Jeep, and I think that my Jeep was driven into the parking lot where Kendra was shot and killed, yes. But, but you have to believe him, it's not him and the Jeep. And he doesn't even know Kendra. Why would he kill her? Okay, but also, he lent his Jeep to a friend that day? Which sounds really convenient and sounds like a lie, but he can explain, okay? He runs a tiny little auto shop. It's not like he has a full Jiffy Lube and a full rental car agency attached to it. Most of his clients are through word of mouth, so friends, family friends. And because he knows them and they trust him to fix their car, he lends out his own Jeep while he works on their cars so that they can run errands or whatever else they need to do.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  That's what happened the day Kendra was killed. A family friend of his came in with her car, and he's known her since, God, I think, like, she even lived with his sister at one point. They went to high school together, like, so long. She comes in with her BMW, and Jose lets her borrow his Jeep. That was two days ago. He didn't think anything of it, okay? Two days ago, a family friend named Brenda borrows his Jeep, it's uptown Dallas. And then in uptown Dallas, a woman is killed in her luxury apartment parking lot. He didn't think those were connected. And then the next day, the day after the Jeep was borrowed, which was, you know, yesterday, so he's describing to police. So he's talking to police September 4th. The murder was September 2nd, and then so yesterday is September 3rd.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Jose's like, I was watching TV, and I saw my Jeep on a BOLO. And then I Googled it, and I saw my Jeep on a BOLO. Okay, and he's telling this the next day. So after seeing his Jeep on the BOLO on September 3rd, the day before, he decides he's gonna first ask Brenda about what the hell is going on. He explains to the detectives, I met up with her. He needed answers. I mean, at this point, he's terrified for himself, his family, he can't even, he can't even drive his own car to meet Brenda? Because all of Dallas is looking for his Jeep. They're be on the lookout. They're looking out. He needs to get answers from Brenda, but he also doesn't know what the hell she did or didn't do, or what any of this is.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  So as casually as possible, he asks her, hey, did you hear about that dentist who got shot in Dallas? Brenda says, no. Oh, but Jose has a plan. He responds, that's funny, because the Jeep they're showing on the news looks a lot like mine. I lent you my Jeep, and then a day later, I'm seeing something that looks exactly like my Jeep on the news, connected to this murder? Show me.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Brenda wants Jose to just show her the pictures, like, you mean, it's a BOLO, Google it, okay, it's my Jeep. But he cooperates. He pulls out his phone, pulls out the pictures, and presents it in front of her face. Brenda studies the pictures. No.

• 26:34Speaker 02

  That's it?

• 26:35Speaker 01

  It's not your Jeep.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Okay. What do you mean it's not my, what do you mean it's not my Jeep? Jose, the owner of the Jeep, is telling Brenda, who drove the Jeep for like, one day, that it's his Jeep and he knows it. Why are you telling me it's not my Jeep? But she's telling him, it's not. How would she know? At, at this point, he might as well be zooming in on each picture, shoving it in her face, pointing out, look at the paint, the distortions, the wheels, the sequence, the hood damage, the paint damage. This is all very unique to my Jeep. The Jeep, that is my Jeep. It's not. Jose, at this point, might as well have his flabbers gassed it, because even the cap he lost from the front bumper on the right side, look at the pictures, he's showing the pictures. Guess what's missing on the right side of the front bumper?

• 27:20Speaker 01

  The cap. He even remembers exactly how he lost the cap. It was snowy, he was driving, the Jeep's, it, it doesn't matter. That's his freaking Jeep. It doesn't even matter. The cap is, it's his Jeep. He's a freaking mechanic for crying out loud. He knows his cars, and somehow, this conversation, this very frustrating conversation between Jose and Brenda, go from Jose trying to convince Brenda, weirdly, that that's his car? While she remains very stubborn with zero evidence or factual argument to back up why it's not his car? Until all of a sudden, the conversation ends with Brenda telling Jose, I'll pay for you to repaint your Jeep.

• 27:59Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Okay, but now it wasn't my Jeep, but now you're gonna help me repaint. Why would he even paint it? Why would he do that regardless of who pays? Even if he paints it, this Jeep is all over the news. He can't drive it. Everyone in Dallas is basically looking for it, and it's just sitting in his driveway. Brenda tells him ominously, don't say anything. Don't tell your family. Don't tell anyone, because you will get in trouble with the police. And she pulls out the trump card, literally. She tells him, well, his citizenship could be at risk if he goes to the police. Is that a threat? Brenda basically tells him, hide the Jeep, hide it in your shop, maybe paint it if you want, I'll help you pay for the paint job. Just don't go to the police.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 28:41Speaker 01

  Jose agrees. At least that's what he tells Brenda because now he's at the police station doing the right thing and informing police. That's my Jeep. And at some point during the interview, Jose might regret not listening to Brenda, at least briefly. Well, not briefly, maybe for hours. Because the police, they take a statement, they leave him in the interrogation room without his phone, without anyone or anything, just sitting in the interrogation room for at least the next four hours.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, for at least two hours of that, he's in a fetal position and it appears he starts praying out of sheer panic, fear and desperation. I'm sure the detectives have to confirm Jose's story. But I'm sure in Jose's mind, he's running through like every possibility. ICE could be on their way, they're stopping by for a few snacks, that's why it's taking so long. Every news story of wrongfully convicted individuals could be popping up in his mind. And then finally, the door swings open, the detective asks him, you good? Yeah, I'm good. He was in fact, not good.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  He was on the ground or?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  He's like in a fetal position, he's on the ground on his knees praying and then he's getting back up. Yeah. But what else are you gonna say when you're not good in this type of situation? They're like, water? Yeah, I'm just ready. Um, okay, yeah, a couple more minutes. Officer comes back with a bottle of water and repeats, couple more minutes, uh, you want some pizza? No, Jose doesn't want some pizza, he wants to go home. But they tell him, just a few more minutes. The officers shut the door again and when Jose is alone, he whispers to himself, a couple more minutes, my ass, a couple more hours, dang it dude, what the fuck? Eventually, the time does come. Jose is cleared to go home. But his Jeep? His Jeep has to stay. But Jose is not the only one calling into the police with information.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  One comes in the form of an email, a very formal sounding email at that. Hello, I recently heard about Kendra Hatcher's tragic death. I attended dental school with Kendra for four years, two thousand and six to two thousand and ten. I, as well as other classmates, were witnesses to her talking about her ex-husband physically abusing her. He includes the last name. I'm not sure about the first name, but I'm sure you can easily look up marriage records. I have no particular reason to suspect he did it. But given the history and my knowledge that most people are not murdered by strangers, he is definitely a person I would recommend looking into. Please let me know if you need anything else. Respectfully, Dr. Arnold Berger.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Whoever Dr. Arnold is, you know, what he has to say might be worth looking into as the local crime stoppers also receive a very similar yet anonymous tip, stating the only reason Kendra moved from Houston, Texas to Dallas was because she was quote, beaten within an inch of her life by an ex-partner. The anonymous tipster goes on to say, even after Kendra moved to Dallas, she was still being threatened. Two tips, pointing fingers at two former partners. And then a third tip. From Kendra herself. During the investigation, authorities uncover some of Kendra's personal notes. Only three pages were scanned and included in the FOIA request. So it's unclear if these were loosely for part of a diary, but they were included nonetheless.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  The first page is kind of like a, like a list of her thoughts. Should I take this job? Core kids dental? Irving, Texas? Community clinic, question mark? In small letters underneath that, she writes, meet good friends in Dallas, where? Lots of serendipity. Another line, I feel like I should be getting into something bigger in life. What would that be? Traveling long distance to the mountains? Then another entry, pursue relationship with Jeremy? He is crazy about you, but not able to date you right now. He's not the one. She sees a guy from El Paso that I'll meet in class of some sort, one child, a little girl, very musically talented, is a healthy relationship? Family, kids, marriage? In my future?

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yes, a man from El Paso, one little girl.

• 32:30Speaker 01

  She, it seems like a brain dump of thoughts that she's having. But the next thought she writes down seems connected to the tip that the police received. She writes, should I pursue civil suit against Steven for domestic violence? Is Steven going to pursue hurting me? I will be safe. He has a lot of other things to worry about. He will do jail time, handcuffs, not first time. The officers turn the page and it's another page filled with what appears to be quickly written down thoughts. And then the words, Steven, deal. Presented plea bargain. Doesn't look good for him. Safe, yes, he has a lot to worry about, he's done this before. He's done this before. And if he's done this before, is he gonna do it again? I have never thought deeply about chair etiquette before seeing this interrogation.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  I mean, okay, I have, but this is a weird interrogation. Let's say you and I walk into a restaurant and we're led to a table with a booth and a chair. Who takes the booth, who takes the chair? You would take the chair and offer me the booth, right? Although I actually really hate sitting in a booth, I much prefer a chair. That's like a thing, okay, but if, or if your boss asks you, follow me into my office. You don't sit in her chair behind the desk because it's just chair etiquette. I mean, I guess there's no written rule that you cannot. But you would just sit in one of the guest chairs across from the desk. The same goes for interrogation rooms. Everything is typically designed purposefully, including the chair etiquette. And Brenda immediately fails. Detective Barnes escorts Brenda into the room. She enters first.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  The interrogation room, recording starts and we're like a fly on the wall, corner camera angle. It's a different room from the one that Jose is in, but it's like pretty much the same layout.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  So Brenda is brought in after Jose's whole thing, okay?

• 34:12Speaker 01

  Now, they have, um, there's two chairs. One of them is an office chair, a wheelie chair. Whoever is sitting in that chair is gonna have their back to the door and also to the camera. The other chair, the person of interest chair, has four metal legs and it's just like bars of metal. It's a metal chair and it's the furthest corner of the room and it's a stationary chair. Interrogation rooms are designed to make the interviewee feel cornered, locked in one spot, hence the lack of wheels. Never too comfortable, never too relaxed. And it's also usually very clear who sits where in an interrogation room. If a detective brings you into one of these types of rooms, well, first of all, you gotta ask for your attorney, but that's just my advice.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  But second of all, Detective Barnes newest interviewee, newest lead, walks in, plops right down in the wheelie chair. And she's like wheeling, scooching into the desk, leaving the cold metal stationary chair for the host, Detective Barnes. And Detective Barnes asks her to switch. I mean, she does without hesitation to her, you know, to her benefit, but it's just very bold.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  It's just a little off.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Either way, she promptly moves to the metal chair, crosses her legs with her hands in her lap. She has her hair pulled back, low ponytail, she's wearing a black baseball hat. And she's kind of wearing this like striped, almost Y2K tight shirt. It's like an orange creamsicle color of stripes, it's like a sherbet ice cream. It's cute, it's very casual, she's also wearing.

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Brenda?

• 35:43Speaker 01

  In her thirties, but she, she could easily pass for like twenty-nine even, she looks pretty young.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  She's also wearing black capri leggings that end right under her knees. Bright white tennis shoes and her body type is, just like for visual sake, just like a regular looking lady. I don't know, you know, Detective Barnes is kind of what you expect, he's very law and order-y, very messily. White ironed button down, dress shoes, dress slacks, broad back, very great posture, even in a wheelie chair, which Brenda almost stole from him, but he thanks Brenda for coming down to talk to him. And she responds, and I will note, I just wanna put a disclaimer. I do think, and I know this, and so no one has to point it out in the comments, but people do anyway.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Um, I do know that I, to some people, have a voice that is reminiscent of a hyena being resurrected. So, I don't think I'm in a place to comment on someone's voice. However, it's also the tone that Brenda uses. That's very interesting and I'm not judging her for it, I'm just pointing it out so you get the full picture. Her voice and tone reminds me of the trad wife trend online. Where they talk very slowly and almost kind of breathy.

• 36:56Speaker 01

  It's soft to the point where it's almost nurturing and it's incredibly feminine.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  She tells Detective Barnes that she wants to help. Tell me what I can help with. Barnes continues to give her the lowdown, you know, assures her that he's not going to be.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  What?

• 37:14Speaker 01

  He's just like smacking on the table. Okay, like out of nowhere to demonstrate like I'm not going to be the type of cop. It's gonna intimidate you or yell. That would probably have me peeing, but instead of jumping or appearing even more nervous, you know, when Barnes is smack smack on the table, Brenda immediately pulls her hand from her lap, rests an elbow on the table, her hand on her chin and she leans in.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  I I I've watched a lot of interviews, innocent, guilty witnesses. You never really see people lean in.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, because she wants to help.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, it's just maybe we just have different ideas of personal space, but it's just a lot of leaning in, like a lot of leaning in. I don't even think I would lean in this much if I were on a dinner date with you. It's just a lot of leaning in. What is she Cheryl Sandberg? Okay, so it's like the lean is not even just the lean is like she's at a bar and a guy just bought her a drink with a black AMX. Okay, then you lean in a little maybe, right? She asked gently, how did my name come up? I don't. Detective Barnes says he'll tell her, but right now he just needs the basics. So he's filling out the police report, contact info, all the administrative stuff, you know, and he's it's it's also like breaking the ice a little bit. I want to make sure that you're comfortable while you're here. Perfect.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll work together. Right? Okay, so Brenda is a little bit of an eager beaver, but I guess that's fine. I guess that's great in the grand scheme of things. Okay, how do you spell B R E N D A Brenda? Okay, Barnes takes a second to write her name down and Brenda sees an opportunity. She leans in. She reaches out her hand and almost like caresses his bracelet. He's wearing a bracelet.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  That's crazy. She just physically made physical contact with the interrogator?

• 39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Wow, okay.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  I am second. I like that. So his bracelet says, I am second and he's like, yeah. And she says, I'm part of it too. Which I don't know why she made it sound like they're in a cult. Um, I am second is just a Christian phrase. So it's like if you saw someone wearing a bracelet with a Bible verse on it, other Christians will recognize other Christians, right?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  Like God first?

• 39:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, God first, I'm second, but she made it sound like a cult. She's like, I'm part of it too. Whatever that means. Okay. What do you mean? You go to church? Essentially what Brenda is trying to do here is um, I guess build rapport, which is kind of the interrogator. Yeah, but like, you know, I guess he's attractive, conventionally attractive interrogator, right? So but still kind of odd to flirt with your interrogator. Anyway, Detective Barnes is like, yeah, well, um, there's a long story behind this. I'll tell you in a minute, but um, I believe in that. Yeah, I do too. That's why I normally don't wear jewelry. This is who I am. So if people see anything outside of police, this is what I want them to know about me. Me too.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  And she holds out her arm to see, you know, for him to see. She holds out her wrist. I don't wear it because my wrist is too tiny.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  And Detective Barnes says, you do. You do have a small wrist. She interrupts him. All my family, they're true believers. And I want to cooperate. I want to know what's going on and you know, I I want you to. It kind of sounds like they're flirting. I mean, Brenda might as well do the grade school flirting thing where you ask a guy, you know, that you like to compare hand sizes with her whole little tiny wrist move. Okay, obviously knowing his hands are going to be bigger and but it's like just a a chance to hold your hands together. I mean, I'm sure for Brenda, it's giving, I'm just so tiny and fragile. Oh, my gosh. Brenda in like, I mean, this in the nicest way possible is kind of giving,

• 41:06Speaker 01

  if my wrist is this tiny, just imagine how tiny my brain is. I have no clue, not an iota, not an idea of why I'm in this interrogation room, sir. It's kind of giving that a little bit. And if I had to guess, Detective Barnes is probably using this as a way in. He notices Brenda trying to cozy up to him, touching him and plays along, complimenting her wrist size. But he's also tries to get back into business. So he's filling out this police report. He's like, okay, so you're unemployed. You're studying. You're in school, right? Yeah, I'm taking my board exam. I've been preparing for the last two weeks. I took my state exam and I made a hundred and then I'm taking my board next week. It's pretty hard. Four hundred fifty questions.

• 41:48Speaker 01

  The board exam to become a dental hygienist. Yes.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Interesting.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Now Barnes reads Brenda her Miranda rights and finally confronts her. One of the things that I wanted to talk to you about, a young lady was killed. Kendra Hatcher was killed on Wednesday, September second. Brenda has no visible reaction. She is being questioned on September fourth, the night of September fourth. So this is two days later. The way that your name came up in the investigation was linked to the vehicle. Okay, so the Jeep, the black Jeep, and I wanted, you know, to talk to you a little bit specifically about Wednesday, what you were doing Wednesday and the incident involving a Jeep. Of course. Okay, can you tell me a little bit about it? Wednesday I was in Carlton and I studied for maybe twelve all the way to maybe six. And then from six, we went to Fuzzy's. We had some tacos at Fuzzy's in Carlton.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And then from Carlton, we went to the Chili's, the restaurant off of George Bush, and that was my day on Wednesday. Brenda continues to tell Barnes that her classmate Billy Wen can verify that they were at the library study room from twelve to five thirty on September second. Uh, was it one of those things? Is it kind of like a date thing? You guys got a? No, just a classmate? Yeah. Oh, I'm dating. I I mean, but I mean, he's not someone, he's not the type. Okay. She continues, after the study session, Billy gives her a ride to Chili's. Billy goes home while Brenda goes inside and grabs a table with Jose. Jose with the Jeep. Jose with the Jeep. So technically he's Jose with the BMW now.

• 43:21Speaker 01

  So he drove up to Chili's in a BMW because he's trying to swap. That's why he's at the Chili's because he wants his Jeep back. The BMW is fixed. That's why he's meeting Brenda at Chili's to swap the cars back. Brenda was dropped off though, because Billy gave her a ride to Chili's after their study session and then after going to Fuzzy's for tacos. So where's Jose's Jeep? Jose is wondering this. Detective Barnes is wondering this. We're wondering this. But first, we have to find out what she ate at Chili's. Okay, she's telling us fried pickles, three chili ritas for three ninety-nine each, which is basically Chili's Margarita Special. And I still want to know where the hell the Jeep is, but this is not my interrogation. This is Detective Barnes interrogation.

• 44:03Speaker 01

  So we see Brenda grab her purse, reach into her bag, then her wallet, and she pulls out a tiny little white piece of paper, a receipt from Chili's, of course.

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• 48:21Speaker 01

  The time that Kendra Hatcher is killed, Brenda is taking advantage of the Chili's Margarita special.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  Because the receipt time matches the murder time?

• 48:31Speaker 01

  So he's like, okay, you closed out at eight fifty-six. Okay. Do you mind if I hang on to this? Go ahead. No, yeah, keep it. Okay, great. You're free to go.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  She just pull out a receipt from her bag?

• 48:43Speaker 01

  So he's like, okay, great. You're free to go, Brenda. See you next week at Chili's so we can pound back chilaritas. Uh, we don't need any more information. That's not at all how it happens. He's like, what the hell happened to the Jeep? Obviously Detective Barnes has a little more tact than that. So instead he asks in a very calm, casual manner about the Jeep. And how what Jose told him and what Brenda is telling him is not adding up. I got a very different story from Jose. Got a very different story from him about the Jeep and about who borrowed it and about whose vehicle was dropped off and okay, he told me he was working on a vehicle for you. She's like, no. He said that he was working on your BMW. That's what he told me. It's not my BMW. It's Crystal's BMW.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Crystal? Who the hell is Crystal? Crystal is Brenda's friend and they were apparently together dropping off Crystal's BMW with Jose borrowing his Jeep. Either way Detective Barnes is gonna need to bring in Crystal. Detective Barnes doesn't play favorites though, because you know, just like Jose, he does keep Brenda in the interrogation room for hours. She has her purse and an officer gives her a pink blanket as she waits for them to verify her alibi. And just like Jose's interrogation Detective Barnes keeps those cameras rolling. And while Jose was contemplating pretty much every life decision that led him to even purchasing a Jeep in the first place, Brenda is very relaxed. For the most part Brenda snuggles in the chair and tries to fall asleep with the pink blanket. But there's this one point towards the end of the footage.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  She throws the blanket off, stands up, reties her hair into a pony, sits down, rummages through her purse, pulls out something, dabs it on her face, puts it back in her purse, rummages through her bag, pulls out another thing, dabs it on her lips. She's doing makeup. In the interrogation room, which again, there is nothing wrong with touching up your face. And you know what? I don't know what I would do in an interrogation room.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  She's just very relaxed, right?

• 50:35Speaker 01

  Super relaxed.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Is it forced or is it she's actually really relaxed?

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Honestly, it feels really relaxed.

• 50:43Speaker 02

  Okay, interesting.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, she's doing her makeup as Dallas PD or in the next office over trying to verify her alibi for the murder of Dr. Kendra Hatcher. A bit strange perhaps, but it's definitely not illegal because like I said, that same evening Brenda is released, her alibi clears and so does Jose's. So, and since we're talking about cleared alibis, Kendra's ex-partners are also cleared. So that just leaves, I mean, that leaves who? This very elusive Crystal and probably Ricky, Kendra's current boyfriend. It's time to bring Ricky in again. Detective Barnes has already spoken with Ricky. He was at the taco stand right outside Kendra's apartment where she was murdered in the parking lot of the, you know, apartment that he's outside eating tacos.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  He told Detective Barnes already that he left from the taco place to go back to his place to call the bank and the rest of the night, I mean, he sent message after message after message to Kendra that went unanswered. I mean, they've been going unanswered even before he went to go eat tacos. Seven fifty-three, I'm super hungry, sweetie. Have you eaten dinner yet? No response. Eight oh four, sweetie, I can't wait any longer. Off to get food. Let me know when you're home. It's interesting because Ricky had already been at Kendra's waiting for her, but since he's hungry, he decides to head down to get tacos. He takes the elevator straight down to the first floor, which is the level above the first level of the parking garage, crosses the street, grabs tacos, and while he's eating, he sends another message.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  Eight fifteen, there's something going on at the entrance of your parking garage. You won't be able to drive into your underground parking lot.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, what time was the murder, to complete?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Like around seven forty-five. Eight thirty-eight, are you okay? You said you were on your way home over an hour ago. Eight forty-four, I'm a little bit worried about you, sweetie. So at this point, he's probably back at his place. Nine forty, still no response. Ricky can't take it. He takes an Uber back to Kendra's apartment. By nine fifty, he's walking through the first level lobby where the concierge desk is and he's asking John, the concierge, buzz me up. This is what he normally does every time he visits or stays over at Kendra's. This is normally how it goes and the concierge always buzzes him up except this time because John is looking at him for a few moments. Hold on. Hold on for what? John disappears into the back room and Ricky is left alone in the lobby feeling, he describes it like a full-blown panic coming in.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  He sends another message to Kendra. Nine fifty-three, they are not letting me upstairs. Please call me. John finally comes out of the back room and instead of buzzing Ricky up, he guides Ricky to the back room where he's like, what is going on? The police walk in and inform Ricky that Kendra has been shot and killed. And I imagine any detective with their badge is going to be studying Ricky's face when they inform him of her passing. But it's not his reaction that's intriguing to investigators. It's more so what he does immediately after. So technically Ricky's alibi does clear, but the investigators are intrigued by something. Ricky is, I will say, he's really beside himself. Like he, his reaction, I think it seems like it was very genuine.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  But he starts informing everyone around him of Kendra's passing. His family, he texts his sister who lives a few states away, his old friends, he starts texting them all. And his sister, it seems like she's a big problem solver in her life. She decides to come see Ricky. She's gonna come a few states over, manage everything. She's gonna run a tight ship. She's gonna field calls coming into Ricky. She's gonna calls from people likely offering condolences, calls from news reporters, journalists, media. She's organizing a meal train with a local friend of Ricky's so that Ricky doesn't have to be overwhelmed thinking about groceries and where to buy food and likely forgetting to eat because he doesn't have food. And that local friend of his that his sister is organizing with also happens to be his ex-girlfriend. And it's someone that the detectives-

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Ricky's ex-girlfriend is a friend of his?

• 54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that he texted and now she is helping Ricky's sister organize this meal train.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  I see.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  So his ex-girlfriend.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  And this ex-girlfriend is someone the detectives are becoming very familiar with. Because it is none other than Brenda Delgado. Wheelie chair, lipstick, I am second, Jeep friend, tiny wrist, Brenda Delgado. And that is where I leave you with part one of this case. Let me know what are your thoughts? Stay tuned for part two because it's like the amount of people that come into this case, it's like you have the entire town that at least gets brought up. You'll see how it plays out. Let me know your thoughts. Stay safe and I will see you in the next one.