Patrick Clancy & Rachel Danis: Barry's Bootcamp Photo, Costa Rica, and the Affair Theory

Eight months after the Clancy children were killed, Patrick Clancy has a new city, a new life, and the internet has a whole new list of questions. Who is Rachel Danis, and when exactly did she enter the picture? From a blurry Barry's Bootcamp photo to a coincidence in trips to Costa Rica, netizens have been pulling at every thread. These are all the rumors, the timelines, and the online theories surrounding Patrick's move to NYC, the mistress allegations, and the woman some say looks a little too familiar. Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

• 0:00Speaker 00

  A perfect crime film, says The Daily Beast. John Turturro gives a career best performance. Sony Pictures Classics proudly presents the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Turturro stars as an aging master pickpocket whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price, and Steve Buscemi. See the film that the L.A. Times calls instantly classic. Opens October 23rd in New York and Los Angeles. Nationwide, October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Sunny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom. Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface. Watch the Hulu original series Phony, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers, terms apply. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive, save hundreds. Because switching your home and auto insurance is better than cutting down on the things you love, like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  So switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  About an hour outside of New York City, ambulances are rushing to this million-dollar private residence. It's a house. It's the house of an oncology specialist that works at Mount Sinai in New York City. She's known to be an investigator of breast cancer clinical trials. She's very accomplished in her life. When the ambulance gets there to the scene, two individuals have already passed by gunshot. The doctor, Dr. Crystal Cascetta, she is the prominent oncologist in the city, and her four-month-old daughter. The authorities are very quick to rule this a murder self-exit, with a lot of netizens agreeing that there is likely some sort of postpartum psychosis or severe postpartum depression at play here.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  I mean, this incident was particularly shocking as many of Crystal's colleagues, they're coming forward and yes, they are expressing a lot of grief, but they're also expressing shock. People describe her as someone who is dedicated and passionate about her job in healthcare, who is dedicated to being a good mother. Nobody saw any sort of warning signs that something very bad was happening. The only surviving member of the immediate family was the husband, the father of the four-month-old child. There were other witnesses in the home that were present, but it seems to be Crystal's parents were home and they thought something fell from upstairs and when they rushed up. But the husband, Tim Talty, was not home at the time of the incident.

• 2:59Speaker 01

  Tim Talty will soon get a message, though, from someone who believes they're going through very similar things. Someone whose family was in the news just eight months prior. And he gets a message from Patrick Clancy.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Patrick reaches out to Tim and by this point, Patrick lives in New York City, so they're able to meet up, grab a pizza. And we know all of this because Patrick Clancy has done a few interviews since January 24th, 2023. The main one initially was this extensive narrative piece done by The New Yorker. That's from October 2024. And in that piece, Patrick tells the author that he actually read about what happened to Dr. Cascetta. Patrick says, "Crystal, Dr. Cascetta, kind of looked like Lindsay. So for a couple of days, I couldn't stop thinking about them." On the surface, I will say with the two cases, there does appear to be similarities. Two incredibly accomplished professionals in the healthcare industry, two women whose peers have nothing but positive things to say about them,

• 4:00Speaker 01

  that nobody saw this coming and it's all happening within the same year of 2023. But as far as visual similarities, I tried to go through a lot of Reddit pages. I couldn't find a single Redditor and maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough, right? Or maybe it's subjective. I couldn't find a single person pointing out the visual similarities of Dr. Cascetta and Lindsay Clancy. But some netizens think it's interesting because there is another visual similarity in the Clancy children case that has some netizens confused. And that's the visual similarity between Lindsay Clancy, the woman who was on trial for the murder of her three children, and Rachel Dannis, the new wife of Patrick Clancy.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Some netizens believe that Lindsay and Rachel look so similar, they would even go as far to question how Patrick can look at his new wife without seeing Lindsay? And with seeing Lindsay, maybe he is constantly reminded of his three children's passing? Would he be reminded of what Lindsay is accused of doing every time he looks at Rachel? And if he saw a visual similarity between Dr. Cascetta and Lindsay that was so jolting that he couldn't stop thinking about them for a few days? Does he see a visual similarity between Lindsay and Rachel Dannis? Does it even really matter in the grand scheme of things? I mean, I guess it depends on which netizen you ask. But this is part three of the Lindsay Clancy case.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support Postpartum Support International. Their mission is dedicated to promoting awareness, prevention, and treatment of mental health issues related to childbearing in every country worldwide. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. This case has themes of mental health conditions like postpartum depression, psychosis. However, the details of this case are not representative of any particular diagnosis and no generalizations should be made from this case about those conditions. There are mentions of taking one's life. There are mentions of taking the lives of others, including, I mean, particularly small children.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  We may mention various opinions, speculations, comments, all from the public about this case. These are not representative of our own and they are not legally confirmed. The only person that was ever considered a suspect in the murders of the three Clancy children has been Lindsay Clancy. Nobody has been named a person of interest, nobody has been named a suspect, nobody has been charged or arrested or convicted with those crimes. I mean, Lindsay hasn't even been convicted of those crimes as of right now. So just keep that in mind. Everything available for this case is public information, at least what we pulled from. Please keep in mind that statements and quotes may be summarized, condensed, or shortened for brevity. This will be a multi-part series and there might be individual additional disclaimers.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  But for now, please watch with discretion, take care, and let's get into it. Summer of 2013, about 10 years before the Clancy children are killed. Lindsay is a nursing student and her roommate, Kristen, happens to be a cousin of Patrick Clancy. That's how they meet, which like, what are the odds, right? Not that slim, apparently, because Patrick has 41 first cousins. This is just like first cousins. Yeah, he comes from a huge Catholic family. So with this case, you're gonna, and we're gonna go over it in the next part, but you're gonna see a lot of people say, oh, well, have you seen that his cousin works here? And here and here, and this is also his cousin, we think this is his cousin. There's a lot of links to a lot of family members. Lindsay's only 22 years old at this point, but she seems like she wants to settle down.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  One of her friends states, she was looking for a good potential family man, which Patrick is that on paper. Relatives say he was an even-keeled, gentle kid. His mom, Sue Clancy, says, "Pat doesn't like to be angry. He doesn't like hostility. He's always been that type since he was very little to just give the benefit of the doubt." It seems like they were a good match for each other. Later, Patrick would even say that Lindsay was just a very fun-loving, outgoing person and they had the same goals in life, like they both wanted a family. One of Lindsay's former colleagues at the hospital says, "Yeah, Lindsay would talk about, kind of in a joking manner, that she would want enough children to fill a baseball team." Some friends say, "Yeah, I mean, if anyone was gonna do that and be a good mom, it would probably be Lindsay, though. She was like born to be a mom."

• 8:43Speaker 01

  Her roommate introduces her to her cousin, so Kristen's cousin, Patrick. The roommate is like, "Meet my cousin, this is my roommate Lindsay." And the first date sounds cute. Patrick takes Lindsay to fly kites on a beach in Boston. Apparently it's 95 degrees outside, but they don't even care. And then soon she's going to the Fourth of July party with the entire Clancy clan, which is, I don't know, like a whole population of people. They do date for a while. They date for about two years before they move in together, September 2015. And then a year later, December 2016, they get married. And a year after that, December 2017, they have their very first child, Cora, together. By all accounts, their relationship seems just overall uneventful.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Patrick's sister describes Lindsay as, "Sweet, a little quiet, just lovely." The cousin, the roommate, remember? She says, "They never really had any bumps in the road." So on paper, I imagine they seem like a great match. After graduating, Lindsay goes on to be a labor delivery nurse. And as we know, Patrick's mom, Sue Clancy, was also a labor and delivery nurse. They actually worked together briefly when Lindsay was doing um rotations at the hospital that she worked at.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Wow, interesting.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, Patrick is a business major, starts working at a telecommunications company in Boston, later working remote for Microsoft. They are a very active couple. Lindsay was a former cheerleader in high school. Patrick loves sailing. Both of them do a lot of running, which seems to be how Patrick meets his next wife, Rachel Dannis, through running, it appears. And this is where things get very convoluted. And before we get into the very explosive sixty minutes interview done by CBS, we're gonna have to go through a lot of the internet theories. Because there's this one lingering theory that Rachel Dannis and Patrick Clancy had a relationship before the Clancy children were killed.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  And that would change the entire narrative, that would change the entire, I would imagine, investigation of things if that were to be proven true. And when you go on places like TikTok and Reddit, there are a lot of people who are stating it as a fact. And I was just trying to dig up everything that I could of what's been confirmed, what's semi-confirmed, what seems real, but we don't know for sure, and what is definitely not true. And we're going to dissect all of that. Rachel Dannis is a reproductive endocrinologist and infertility specialist in New York City, affiliated with Mount Sinai. Her work page states that academic medicine has always played a significant role in Dr. Dannis's career, stating she has conducted research, written book chapters,

• 11:17Speaker 01

  and has been a devoted educator to medical students, residents, and junior fellows. It feels like the very first initial reaction online about Patrick's new wife has been more so about how similar she looks to Lindsay Clancy. One person comments about Rachel, "He's got a type. Her resemblance to Lindsay is scary." Someone agrees with, "I have always found it strange that he chose someone to marry who looks like the person who killed his kids." To which someone responds, "She's much prettier than Lindsay." There's quite a bit that people have tried to dig up into Dr. Rachel Dannis, but none of it has been confirmed. I mean, there are theories floating around out there that her father is Roy Dannis. And I do think that this is, it does seem to be her father.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Roy Dannis has a public page that goes through his thirty-five-year career in the wine and spirits industry, including a very notable seventeen-year stint at Seagram before it went defunct. Seagram, um, as, I mean, they were sold off. Seagram, i-if you know, they had a lot of notable brands that were later sold off when they went defunct, like Absolute Vodka, Maker's Mark, Crown Royal, Fireball, and obviously Seagram's Ginger Rail, like the most iconic ginger rail. Well, I guess you could argue it's Canada Dry. It's up to you, right? The public profile for Roy Dannis states that he was there with increasing responsibilities in sales and marketing. It seems like he was a very high-up executive. Then doing some Facebook stalking, Instagram stalking,

• 12:45Speaker 01

  we were able to find pictures of someone who looks very similar to the very public professional profile of Roy Dannis in pictures with Rachel Dannis. And they were posted before the internet went into a frenzy. So it does, I mean, unless someone's really great at AI and Photoshop and hacking, i-it seems like her dad is either Roy Dannis or someone who looks exactly like Roy Dannis. But again, in the world of doppelgangers, who is to say that it's the same guy, right? But it just feels-

• 13:13Speaker 02

  So potentially, her dad is very, very wealthy and successful, right?

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. But that's not the controversial connection. The controversial connections have come as the internet started loosely connecting strings of information. So for example, one of the Seagram heiresses, Claire Bronfman, has been sentenced to a seven-year prison sentence for being a leading member of the sex cult Nixium. Do you remember that?

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and Edgar Bronfman Jr., the brother of Clara, has a name listed, he's a name that's been listed in the Epstein files.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  Ah, I see, so there's like some association.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  Yes, uh, there's a stronger association with Edgar I'm gonna get into, but the facts could remain like this. Rachel Dannis's father may or may not be a man named Roy Dannis. He may or may not be the same Roy Dannis that worked for seventeen years at Seagram. Seagram heiresses Claire and Sarah have been accused of being involved with Nixium, the sex cult. Claire herself has been convicted and sentenced to prison for her involvement. Sarah has not been. They are the Seagram heiresses. They may or may not have had any interaction with Roy Dannis. The only known connection being that he worked for the brand, and there's no indication that if any interaction was had, that it was nefarious, at least with the sisters.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  However, the connection with Edgar Bronfman Jr., the sister's brother, another Seagram heir, is a lot deeper. Edgar and Roy Dannis co-founded a new company, Revival Spirits, together with a third partner. So, like a little trio.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  Really?

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, but again, that doesn't mean that either of them are involved in something nefarious or that they have been doing nefarious things together. And also, just because your name does come up in the Epstein files does not mean that you knew what Epstein was doing. But there's a lot of just connections. Now, are these just connections made because powerful people who do dirty nasty things are friends with other powerful people who may or may not do dirty nasty things? We don't know. But those are the facts that people could have gathered. And people have started theorizing based off the facts that something sinister is going on, that there's some level of deep corruption, that Rachel Dannis is protecting Patrick Clancy, and there's some sort of underlying power play that's happening.

• 15:31Speaker 01

  But again, I would just like to reiterate, and probably attorney, our attorney would like me to reiterate, probably, okay? While I am quick to side-eye a lot of people listed in the Epstein files, these are just loose publicly known professional connections with no indication of personal ties or anything sinister happening behind the scenes. It's almost like saying a high-up executive at Microsoft should have known that Bill Gates was cheating on his wife and should probably ban him from playing bridge in order to keep it in his pants. And that connection is a little bit harder to draw. It's kind of a far throw. Then there's the hot mic situation. The internet found what appears to be Roy Dannis's Instagram page. And for a brief moment in time, it appeared that he had reposted a clip from the trial of the infamous hot mic moment.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  We go more into this later, but during the testimony of a medical examiner, Lindsay was crying pretty, pretty audibly, pretty hard. She was sobbing uncontrollably, a lot of news networks describe it. And one of the prosecutors were allegedly caught on a hot mic saying, "Shut her up." Now, many people who do not like Lindsay, or just many people who have heard the same audio, think that the prosecutor was saying, "Shut it off." But the internet is mixed. Some people think they're saying, "Shut her up, shut it off." In the context, both do seem to work.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  When you say "shut it off"?

• 16:50Speaker 01

  There was something, like a, something on the projector.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  Oh, so it's unrelated to Lindsay?

• 16:55Speaker 01

  Yes, so both in the context actually make sense.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 16:59Speaker 01

  I, I would say "shut her up" is a little less contextual because you would assume-

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Like, how do you shut her up, right?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then you would assume that the prosecutors know there's mics everywhere, but-

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Live streaming.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  But it does kind of sound like it, so it's very confusing. Now, we don't know what was actually said, but it's been the running internet theory that Lindsay's reaction to the medical examiner's testimony, I will say, did not do the Commonwealth any favors. So with that context, it also makes sense of, maybe they're very stressed. This is not doing what they thought it would do. A lot of people felt the prosecutors came off unusually cruel, and Lindsay was showing very real, raw emotions. Regardless, Reddington brings it up in court with the judge in a very tense moment. So of course, Reddington is arguing that the prosecutor said, "Shut her up." And Reddington has this very viral moment where he tells the judge, "This is not the Handmaid's Tale, we can't just shut women up." Essentially, that's what he says, and the judge-

• 17:56Speaker 02

  Is that happening at the same time, or this happened the next day?

• 18:00Speaker 01

  The next day.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Ah, so Reddington likely saw the live stream, like the hot mic moment?

• 18:05Speaker 01

  Yes, it seems like Reddington has somebody that's on TikTok.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  I mean, he must be checking, but what, so what did the judge say, or?

• 18:13Speaker 01

  The judge was like sidebar immediately. He was getting upset, he's like, "We're not doing this right now." It was not in front of the jurors, but still.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  And nothing came out of it?

• 18:24Speaker 01

  Nothing, yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  You don't need a finance degree to do the right thing with your money. Acorns has your back. Acorns is the financial wellness app that makes it easy to grow your money and build towards your future automatically. Just choose an amount, set a schedule, and they'll automatically save and invest your money for you. Sign up now and join over 14 million people already investing with Acorns. New customers get a $20 bonus investment just for signing up. Takes about two minutes and could be the quickest $20 you'll ever earn. Head to acorns.com/rotten. That's A-C-O-R-N-S.com/rotten to claim your $20 bonus today. Acorns.com/rotten. Limited time offer. Terms and conditions apply. See acorns.com/terms for details. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Tier two compensation provided. Potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts, age, and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results may vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/rotten. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over and over again? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. Quince is your go-to for quality essentials that feel cozy. They look so refined and they're not going to blow your budget. They figured out how to make luxury pieces actually affordable by working directly with the same factories that make stuff for high-end brands. No middleman markup, no inflated prices.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  You have the same quality materials and craftsmanship, but for literally half of what you pay elsewhere. You guys already know how I feel about my Quince Mongolian cashmere sweaters. There is something about it that just gives quiet luxury. The best part is, everything feels intentional and well-made. These aren't pieces I'm going to get tired of next season. They're the kind of quality basics that just make getting dressed easier. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Rotten Mango. It's the best way to support the show. For kids, summer means freedom. And for adults, summer still means freedom, thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale. Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Free yourself from big wireless and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. When I made the switch to Mint, everything stayed the same, except for the money that I was saving. I got to keep my phone, my number, save my time, my money, and the coverage stayed the same. No loopholes, no hidden fees. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/rotten. That's mintmobile.com/rotten. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/rotten. That's it, there's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Netizens report seeing Roy Dennis reposting it on Instagram before taking his account to private, which if he did do that, there were some netizens saying, what's the meaning behind that? It doesn't explain why he did it. I would like to think if this were true, again, I saw it, but with things being doctored these days, it's very hard to say definitively that this is exactly what happened. I can't say with full confidence, really, anything. I think that he accidentally reposted it, if that were the case. I don't think there's any sort of deeper meaning or underlying message that he's trying to send out to the world. I think he's just an older man that didn't realize that his reposts were public.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  But even with that, why was he saving it? Why was he logging it? Why did he want it? It's kind of odd.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  I mean, to me, all this sounds like is he's definitely watching all the content out there, but who isn't?

• 22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, who's, yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of speculations, but ultimately, they lead nowhere with that train of thought. But I think if one really is in the mood to speculate, I guess it could be speculated that Rachel Danis comes from a very wealthy and perhaps very well-connected family if Roy Dennis is in fact her father, which it seems very likely that he is. But since the start of Lindsay's trial, Rachel Danis and Patrick Clancy have been the subject of a lot of people's attention, including the likes of tabloids such as TMZ, who have been following them around in New York City. One article reads, "Ex-Hubby Patrick's tense outing with the new wife." There's pictures of the two of them on a rooftop area in New York City, and the article

• 23:11Speaker 01

  reports, "Patrick was seen taking phone calls and pacing in circles while using his phone. At one point, he reportedly sat his feet on the table and wiggled his toes." Which is quite descriptive, but you get a wide range of reactions from the internet. One is, hear me out. They're talking on the roof because they're worried their apartment is bugged. Others point out that he's not in Massachusetts for most of the trial, saying, "I think something is coming out that's changing about the trial and revealing something more about him and maybe them." To which another person writes the opposite sentiment, saying, "People are ruining his life again after he did everything he could for Lindsay, even made sure his family was there for her. People are mad that he's remarried three years later." Rachel and Patrick have since been spotted in New York City, smiling, running errands,

• 23:56Speaker 01

  at a coffee shop in the Hamptons, browsing. People have a lot of mixed feelings about it. Some are happy and think that it's very healthy that he testified at the trial and is trying to live a normal life. I mean, his kids are gone. Being involved with this criminal trial that he probably likely did not want to begin with is not going to bring his kids back. Others are saying, it's still weird. It's still the trial for your three children. Your kids and your ex-wife is the defendant. Don't you want to be there? Or at least is it not a time where maybe you hole up in the house and you're just going through it? Not saying that people are wishing him to be in pain, but I think people are just analyzing his behavior. And fine, maybe you're not in Massachusetts. Maybe you stay home in New York City, but maybe you just like work from home and you're

• 24:41Speaker 01

  not in the Hamptons at a coffee shop. People are arguing. People say, some people also argue, it's not just the fact that three years have passed. A lot of people bring their own anecdotal evidence into it. And again, anecdotal evidence is not really evidence, but you get the idea. I think with this case, everyone comes in with their own opinions that a lot of them tie back to their own personal experiences, their own personal relationships, their relationship with their own children. But people have come out to say, like, a family member of mine was killed and there wasn't a trial for like 10 years. But even after 10 years, your life moves on, the trial hits, nothing is the same anymore. It's redigging up all these past traumas, the memories, and it's, it's just a very visceral moment.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  It's not like, oh, well, it's been three years, you should be able to move on. So there is that argument. But as TMZ was following Patrick and Rachel in New York City during the trial, there is one paparazzi photo of them holding hands, walking in the city, and Rachel looks pregnant. I know it's not good to speculate. I know it's not good to comment on women's bodies, but it is something that has kick-started another frenzy of theories and rumors online. Some people are focused on Patrick and they say, if Rachel is pregnant, either A, you know, some netizens are saying, I'm really happy for Patrick. I'm really happy for Rachel. I'm glad that Patrick gets to move on after this horrific tragedy. Or B, they're confused how he can just have another child three years after the incident? Some people wonder, isn't he traumatized?

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Like, isn't he scared about leaving the baby alone with Rachel? I mean, sure, he thinks it was postpartum psychosis that happened to Lindsay and that's why the three children are gone. But, and yes, it is rare, but the, people are saying, you know, that trauma, your brain doesn't work logically. So it's not like your brain is going to say, oh, well, PPP is very rare and what are the odds? People are saying, I just would never feel comfortable. I would be so paranoid. Like, I don't know if I would want to relive that paranoia just three years later.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  So this conversation happened before the 60-minute came out?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  When they, after they announced?

• 26:46Speaker 01

  And I will say, there's so much confusion that Rachel and Patrick already have children. So there was, you know, some theories online that they already have a child, that they, this is her second pregnancy. It doesn't seem to be the case. This seems like, everything is very vague. Even in the 60 minutes, it's very vague. But we do know, if they hadn't already had a child, they are going to have a child soon.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, because they're saying they're starting a family, so she's, okay.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  But there are some conspiracy theories that the wording of that, it meant like they already had the child.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Like maybe the child was recently born and that's why the internet is confused because there seems to be some sort of source material. I guess someone is pulling from to indicate that they already have children. I don't know. I I think it seems likely that she's probably pregnant right now, but we don't know for sure. We're not certain. She it's not like she was like, oh, yes, I'm pregnant. But also, the timing, people think, is odd to start a family during the midst of the trial.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  And then a lot of the focus has also shifted to Rachel with a lot of these paparazzi photos. With a lot of people being confused how Rachel feels comfortable having a child with someone who is at the center of national attention and not in the best way, but in a very complicated, messy way. I mean, she's accomplished in her own right. She could find another partner that doesn't come with so much baggage is what netizens are saying. A lot of other netizens are fighting back on this verbiage as they believe that it shames surviving family members. They're saying, what do you mean baggage? Oh, so that's supposed to mean that if you're the surviving family member of a tragedy, that someone with a good job, someone with a good family background, should think twice before they love you. There's a lot of discourse online back and forth.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  But regardless, the conversation is out there. And with that conversation, there's a whole new theory out there that people are like, well, maybe Rachel Danis is not with Patrick Clancy after the incident. Maybe Rachel Danis has been there from the beginning. Maybe Patrick and Rachel Danis met before the children were killed. One of the biggest pieces of circulating media that I could find that would lead netizens to believe that Patrick and Rachel knew each other before they said they did is a circulating picture. It is a screenshot of an Instagram post from November fifteenth, twenty twenty two. I couldn't find the original photo because the poster's handle has been censored. So I couldn't go back to Instagram to confirm with you that this was posted November of twenty

• 29:16Speaker 01

  twenty two, but it is a picture of seven people at a Barry's Boot Camp in Tribeca, standing in front of this giant Barry's Boot Camp Tribeca sign. And there are two people in the picture that look familiar. They think the person second to left is Rachel, and the person on the very right is Patrick Clancy. Now, side note, this is again a circulating screenshot. I don't know what could have been edited on there. The date of the post could have been edited. The poster's username is censored. So again, there's, we don't know. And it's a little grainy. It's a little pixelated.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  So Patrick already is in New York back in twenty twenty two?

• 29:53Speaker 01

  No. I mean, he was going on there for business trips, which is another connection that people are like, maybe he met Rachel on a business trip. The connection actually goes a little bit deeper. So Microsoft works with, they create a lot of healthcare system, like data aggregation models and like, oh, here's this system that a lot of hospitals will use to track whatever, right? And so people are saying, well, Patrick works at Microsoft and he actually helps in the sales department. And Rachel works at Mount Sinai, and there is a connection between Microsoft and Mount Sinai. So maybe they met at some sort of work-related event, or they ran into each other at the hospital. However, I will say, a lot of people, I don't think that's the case.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  That's just like a crazy.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I do see a lot of people on Reddit being like, I work in healthcare. I work at Mount Sinai. Never once have I ever met any employee from any sort of system company. Like, they're not meeting up with the providers. They're, they're meeting up with the admin of the hospitals. So that's up for debate. Now, this picture in itself is quite blurry. So it's hard to say if that's even Rachel in the photo, though I will say it does look like Rachel in the photo. Patrick looks a little bit harder to identify. It could be Patrick. It could also be Mark Zuckerberg. It could also be another random guy. I mean, they kind of look, like the picture is that grainy is what I'm trying to emphasize. At first glance, I did think it was more Mark Zuckerberg than Patrick.

• 31:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  So it's hard to say if this is an undocumented post from November twenty twenty two, and if that's even Rachel and Patrick on there. But that's one of the main pieces of media. And again, it could be both of them. I'm just saying, I can't confirm that it is or is not. But there are theories circulating online, since Reddington did focus a portion of Patrick's cross-examination on his travels November of twenty twenty two. So this picture was posted November twenty twenty two, right? Apparently. And then Reddington is like, well, didn't you go to New York City in November of twenty twenty two? So people are like, is Reddington telling us something? Is Reddington telling us like that picture is real? And we, the internet, are finding out about this affair, alleged

• 32:09Speaker 01

  affair, potential affair, rumored affair, whatever. And a lot of people think the timing matches up. Patrick would have gone to New York City around November first through the third. This picture is posted mid-November, so that someone could have waited a week or two to post it, which is very believable. But again, there's no way to confirm nor deny that that is Rachel and Patrick in the photo. But because Reddington focused on it, a lot of netizen feels like it adds credibility to the photo.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Why did Reddington ask the the November twenty two?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I don't think it has to do with the photo. I think it has to do with the fact that

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Lindsay is not doing well in November, right? Because all of her troubles started in September, and November is also a rough month. December is the month where she told Patrick that she had thoughts of harming the children. And this is him saying, like, you were gone for days at a time. She could have killed the kids then. That's kind of more of the route that I think that he was trying to go with the cross-examination. I don't think that he was trying to focus on New York City, per se, but more so, you were out on a business trip. Then you went to San Francisco with Cora, just the two of you guys, right? She, she's alone with the kids. She's alone with all three kids when you went to New York City. So why didn't she do it then? Why in this random, like, small timeframe of window on a random day in January twenty

• 33:27Speaker 01

  fourth? I think that was more of what he was trying to push the jurors to. But another thing that netizens believe adds a little more credibility to this unconfirmed photo is that Rachel and Patrick do seem to be frequent Barry's customers.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Both of them like to go to Barry's Boot Camp?

• 33:47Speaker 01

  Yes, because later there is a real photo from later in the timeline that would make more sense with them meeting after the incident of both of them at Barry's.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  That's, wow.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  But it could be that Rachel had an interview with her workplace where she talks about how she loves Barry's Boot Camp. She loves the red lights. She loves how she can just decompress and just get lost. This is like the best way to re-energize herself. So she seems like she loves Barry's. I don't know if maybe they met later, as they said they did, and she introduced him to Barry's.

• 34:18Speaker 02

  When, when was that photo?

• 34:21Speaker 01

  It's like twenty twenty five, or later in twenty twenty four. So it would actually match with their timeline. And I will say that photo, I'm like, that is definitely Patrick. That is definitely Rachel. That is not Mark Zuckerberg.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Interesting, okay.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  But I think the thing fueling the mistress rumors, if you will, is that people just have a hard time believing Patrick could move on so quickly. And that Rachel would

• 34:47Speaker 01

  choose to be involved with Patrick. I think people are trying to say that they're being pragmatic about the situation and just saying logically, she is this very accomplished doctor in the city. Her dad seems to be this very well-connected, very wealthy person, and she wants to get entangled in one of the biggest controversial stories in America as of late. It just doesn't make any sense. People are saying, some people are arguing, obviously. But one comment reads, you'll never change my mind. The affair was happening before the tragedy. No one, no one moves on that fast. Others point out the Rachel thing. They say, I would have reservations on dating a man whose wife unalive their three children. I would just have so many questions. To which someone comments back, same, I'd question

• 35:30Speaker 01

  if he could have done more to help her safeguard his children. And the fact that he's ready to move on so quickly, she should see that as a warning. Then another big circulating conversation has been that Rachel was at the children's funeral. So this was February third of twenty twenty three, you know, a week or two after the children's deaths.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  She was?

• 35:49Speaker 01

  No. I could not find any credible evidence of that at all. All I could find was Rachel was at a memorial for the children in a park that was created in the children's memory. That was in twenty twenty five when the park had its grand opening. Well, I don't want to say grand opening, but it's opening ceremony. And Rachel was videoed there. She was photographed there. And so because people have been conflating, oh, she was at the memorial, and memorial sounds like a funeral, they they were like, how could she have been at the funeral unless she knew Patrick from before? Then another big allegation is that Patrick signed a lease to an apartment in New York City before the children's murders. That has been hotly debated.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I could not find any credible evidence of that. It seems like he moved in April of twenty twenty three, which is just a few months after the murders, which is, I will say, there is some good conversation to have of like, that is a quick move, but I couldn't find evidence that it was before the children's murders. Could he have been redditing and Googling about apartments in New York City before the murders? That's up for debate right now. But just to give you a rough timeline, Patrick moves April of twenty twenty three. That's the most credible timeline that we have so far. That is the confirmed timeline. But it does appear that he would travel to New York City before the murders for meetings at Microsoft. And now that he's alone, he says he, he didn't want to stay in Duxbury,

• 37:11Speaker 01

  where everyone knew what happened. He just wanted anonymity. And it seems maybe it was a better fit for his job. He moved to New York. Some say they understand his choice. Others say they understand, but damn, that was a fast friggin' move. But another circulating claim on TikTok has been that he rented an apartment that was owned by a company that was run by Roy Dennis, which simplified turned into Patrick rented an apartment from Rachel's dad. Rachel's dad is Patrick's landlord. I did find zero credible evidence of that. And again, just because I can't find credible evidence doesn't mean that it's not true. But also, we can't take it as truth either, because there's nothing to prove that it

• 37:52Speaker 01

  is true, publicly at least. But it doesn't seem to be, I mean, nothing, I was trying to cross-reference like the company name, and then Roy Dennis. Roy Dennis is like known for just spirits and wine. They could have other relations. A lot of wealthy, powerful people also do invest in a lot of real estate, but it just doesn't seem.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  I see.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. There was also a viral claim that Patrick and Rachel ran a half marathon together just nine days before the children were killed in January of 2023. The initial online discussion being, did they just happen to run the same marathon? Or did they know each other? The race being circulated with this viral claim is actually from 2026 and not 2023. So it doesn't, I tried to look at the records. It doesn't seem like either of them ran the 2023 race. But they did run the 2026 race together. Patrick, um, Patrick, I think, finished 81st. Rachel finished like 105th, right? So it appears to be a mix-up of the years, but more on this race later. Now, one of the bigger aspects of the conversation by netizens who believe Rachel

• 38:55Speaker 01

  and Patrick knew each other before the children's murders is they reference Patrick Clancy's potential Yelp account. I cannot again say with full confidence really anything about this case, but this does seem like Patrick's Yelp account. It seems like it. Side note, another reason people believe this is likely Patrick's account is there's a review for Kingsbury Club and Spa, which the Commonwealth actually had an employee from Kingsbury Club and Spa testify about Patrick and Lindsay being members, and they were members of that spa. Ducksbury is not this huge place in Massachusetts. There's connections to reviews of restaurants from Lindsay's hometown and New

• 39:34Speaker 01

  York City where Patrick traveled for work and it seems like it's his account. The review reads for Kingsbury Club and Spa. Two stars is very fair. It's very expensive, a hundred dollars plus every month. They try to pretend this cost reflects an upscale gym, but almost everything about it is outdated. It's like taking a trip back to 1995. They offer babysitting, but our kid, who is usually very social, comes out crying every time. This was part of the reason we joined, but this service has been proven to be obsolete. Another connection is the employee that testified was the one that ran the babysitting, like the kids' section.

• 40:10Speaker 02

  Whoa. So what, what is the, the employee, um, testifying for?

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Just who picked them up, who dropped them off. The Commonwealth was trying to draw some conclusions that like, oh, look at Lindsay exercising all the time. Like, look at her living this life where she's just got all this help. Yeah. Did Lindsay seem like she was hearing voices that you didn't hear? Like those kinds of, people did not understand the point of that witness, I will say. Yeah.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's really interesting.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. But he, this reviewer continues to write, so then we canceled and they continued to charge us for another month. It's kind of like asking for your bill at a restaurant and then your server brings you two more drinks. Two stars. Now, there are lots of reviews on this account and netizens have been trying to, well, first of all, the assumption is that this is Patrick's account. The second assumption is that this is reflective of Patrick Clancy's personality then. And that's why these reviews have garnered a lot of attention. It's not that these reviews have anything explosive or crazy about them. It's just, um, it's part of the conversation, so we're gonna cover it. A review for a company called Miami Kite Boarding, which

• 41:19Speaker 01

  again, he likes kites, reads, "The poor reviews for this place surprised me, but after my trip there, they were unfortunately confirmed. When I arrived at the front desk, I was simply ignored. The woman made eye contact with me and knew I was there, but just kept looking at her phone and having a casual conversation with her coworker. It was honestly weird and frustrating. Then they were arrogant. They were trying to tell me what size kite and board I should use, even though I've been kiting for years and knew which size I should be on. I ultimately took their advice, but had to come all the way back to switch to the size I originally wanted. Then I asked to buy some sunblock and realized at that point I was just getting ripped off. They gave me a tube the size of a chapstick for $20. I asked if there were other options? Nope. That tube lasted me two applications. Next time I will bring my own gear and kite somewhere else. What a shame. Two stars.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  You know how special it feels when you're deep in a true crime rabbit hole or you have to work late? Again, and someone sends you a little surprise to help you get through? That's the magic of DoorDash. Because showing up isn't always about being there in person. Sometimes it's making sure your people have their favorite meal or necessities before they even have to ask. DoorDash delivers from restaurants, grocery, retail, and convenience stores. So you can show up for the people you love, no matter what the moment calls for. And with Dash Pass, there's no delivery fee on thousands of eligible orders. It's one of the best ways to say, I got you, without saying a word. A family friend just had her second baby, and instead of getting the baby anything, because let's be real, they're not going to

• 42:52Speaker 01

  remember, I wanted to splurge and send a DoorDash gift card to the family so that they don't have to worry about meals, groceries. They can just be home and focus on their newborn. I love a DoorDash. It saved me so much time and energy personally, so I just know that they're going to really enjoy the doorstep delivery service as well. DoorDash makes showing up for the people you love easy. Needed that, delivered. DoorDash, order now. Zolair omolizumab is proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens. Zolair 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or

• 43:34Speaker 01

  more foods. While taking Zolair, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolair. Zolair may cause a severe life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you've ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing, or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolair should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolair is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches, and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolair.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolair. This is an

• 44:18Speaker 01

  advertisement for Zolair paid for by Genentech and Novartis. This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. World's Mental Health Day is a reminder that your mental health is just as important as your physical health. In addition to reminding you that your mental health is also important 364 days out of the year as well. And for some people, therapy can be one way to support their mental well-being. Remember, therapy isn't just for the big life choices either. It can just be a place to talk about relationships and problems and work issues, or simply like the sense that something feels off. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms, having served millions of people globally. BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. Plus, BetterHelp makes it easy to fit

• 45:03Speaker 01

  therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles. Your mental health doesn't need a special occasion or anyone else's permission to matter. BetterHelp can connect you with a therapist who gets you, so you can make space for what matters to you. Visit betterhelp.com/rotten to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash rotten. I'm gonna be honest, guys. I don't remember the last time I wrote in Korean. I can have conversations with my family out loud, but every time I have to text my dad, we just end up calling because I don't think he can decipher anything that I type to him. With Rosetta Stone Sapphire, their biggest launch in over a decade, I can practice my writing in personalized games that

• 45:44Speaker 01

  actually make it fun to learn. It's one of the coolest new features called Chat Missions. You're put in interactive scenarios and given three objectives. A mission to accomplish, like asking how much something costs, ordering a cold brew coffee, getting a wifi password. Along the way, you get real-time corrections and feedback to help you sound more natural and confident. It's a supportive way to build confidence before putting your language skills to use in real life. And it incorporates Rosetta Stone's industry-leading immersive method for language learning with new learning tools powered by the latest in learning technology. If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire. Rotten Mango listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. This gets you access to Rosetta Stone Sapphire in 25 languages.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  The account leaves reviews for hotels with one reviewing, "How this place attracts paying customers might be the eighth wonder of the world. Do you like hallways that smell like urine? Well, this place is for you. Not only that, the staff is incredibly rude, the food service is worse than prison, and a sure way to get diarrhea. One star." Another one for the Sheraton, New York in Times Square. "For this money, this is one of the worst hotels I would, I have ever stayed at. The elevators are insanely slow. One day, it took me 15 minutes to get from my lobby to the room. They will charge you for everything, even holding onto your bag for a moment. Rooms are tiny, bathrooms are gross, holes in the wall, chip paint will never come back. One star."

• 47:15Speaker 02

  Does he only write low reviews, or?

• 47:17Speaker 01

  No, he has some, but a lot of them are predominantly seems to be airing on the side of negative. Yeah, another one for a restaurant is called, uh, the restaurant is called Taylor Gourmet. Not gourmet. Greasy? Question mark? That would be an extreme understatement. My cheesesteak was not packed well and I spilled grease all over my suit, ruining it. I won't eat here again. The sub itself was not desirable. One star. Hula Hands. Decent food, service sucks. Capital sucks with an exclamation mark. You await an eternity for your food, a drink, a table. I asked for my check and the guy says, okay. What does he do? Goes and starts cleaning tables. Asked for a beer last night. Waiter goes off and stands in the corner. It's actually amazing to watch. Another review about the food at Hot Coffee, which reads, "Can't comment on the coffee,

• 48:02Speaker 01

  but the breakfast sandwich I was served was one of the worst I've ever seen. It was on a roll that was broken multiple pieces. The egg was mini. Not sure how that was accomplished, but it was about two inches in diameter. I ate the whole thing in three bites. Seriously, I don't know how someone could serve this and think their customers are going to like it. A breakfast sandwich isn't hard to make. Nice decor inside. Two stars." There's another low review for a coffee shop due to the fact that they did not have ketchup packets for his breakfast sandwich. And I say his, I don't know who this Patrick C is, who this Patrick Clancy is, right? But he says the sandwich was however decent. But he says, uh, why would you not have ketchup for breakfast sandwiches? Two stars. Another review for a restaurant called Dante reads, "Had to get up and leave, which is disappointing." The reviewer

• 48:44Speaker 01

  says that he was sitting down at the bar and the bartender was pretty non-social, but regardless, orders a beer, and then he notices the bartender's friends start showing up. Quote, "They're both swearing like pirates, talking about how much it would suck to have kids. Little awkward for people who do have kids. F-bombs every other word and pretty loud about it. Came for the dollar oysters, but now they're $2. So that's a bummer. It's a really nice atmosphere with a great view. Just wish it was a little more professional." Which, side note, again, we cannot confirm that this is Patrick Clancy's Yelp account, but if it is, some netizens say, I get the feeling he does this all so that these places end up grovelling and apologizing to him. He likes that. Now imagine being married to that. And again, we don't know that this is Patrick Clancy's account. But if it is, you know, and

• 49:29Speaker 01

  it's, it does seem kind of likely, but, um, again, we can't not confirm.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  How often he posts these like is it very frequent or you think he just gets a bad experience and then you will write about it or he's like a constant Yelp poster?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  He's pretty frequent poster. Yeah, pretty frequent like in the span of I wanna say like a year and a half. It seems like twenty reviews.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  At least once a month.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it seems pretty frequent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  That sounds like a lot to me, but maybe not.

• 50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not like a.

• 50:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Another person writes, how many negative reviews does one person have to leave before they realize they're the problem? One kind of out of place review is for a place called Park Avenue Market Ace Hardware, and there's another connection there cuz they just talk about Home Depot, which is gonna be relevant later, but he said this person writes, this place is my go to as long as it's not something I can buy only at Home Depot. They're incredibly helpful and I always know I can be in and out so as long as so I can get back to what I was doing. Also, only place where you can buy a hammer and get hammered. I guess it's in a big market where they sell drinks.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  But it's not like all the reviews are bad. Some are really great, like for a restaurant called The Tasty. Awesome place. The decor, location, staff vibe are all incredible, but most of all, the food will leave you with a warm memory. Can't wait to go back. Five stars. He, whoever it may be, also leaves a review for a local Starbucks, which reads, been here twice, both times on Saturdays. It takes twenty five minutes to get one drink. You'll get your coffee, but this location is very understaffed slash inefficient. There is another review for a CVS store that is also the same exact CVS store that Patrick Clancy went to on January twenty fourth. So while the Commonwealth alleged that Lindsay was at home with all three children, killing the three children and self exiting that CVS,

• 51:24Speaker 01

  that review reads, I can't express enough how garbage this store is. The service is terrible. I literally can't believe the people they hire. If you plan on going here, make sure you have nothing planned for the day. It will take forever. Or just save yourself the headache and go somewhere else. One star.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a CVS.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, people have been using his avid reviewing to draw connections and kind of confirm another unconfirmed review. So everything's unconfirmed, but everyone's like, oh, but judging by the fact that this unconfirmed Yelp account that seems to be Patrick leaves a lot of reviews. That leads me to believe, you know, and that's how netizens are drawing these connections. But there's this one review that people are talking about in depth and it's a Google review. So this is not the same Yelp account, but it's a Google review and people are saying, well, it's probably Patrick because Patrick loves reviewing places. Look at his Yelp, his alleged Yelp. So this Google account, it appears to be Patrick Clancy. And again, we cannot confirm with certainty.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Or account names or anything on there? It says Patrick Clancy.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's the areas that he's from.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Let's say this Patrick Clancy.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Clancy on Google.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  This Patrick Clancy on Google reviews a hiking trail that reads, this hike was amazing. It is short, but lots of stairs. You will be dripping sweat. I'm not sure about the seventeen dollars. I was the only one there with no one else in sight. There's also zero cell service. So I don't know if it's like seventeen dollars to hike the trail, but that is from February twenty first, twenty twenty three. Less than a month after the three murders of the Clancy children. Patrick Clancy allegedly went on a hike in Costa Rica. We again, don't know if this is indeed his review of this hike, but we do know with certainty that in February, Patrick did go to Costa Rica.

• 53:08Speaker 02

  Really?

• 53:09Speaker 01

  Yes, and he did go to Europe afterwards. Patrick tells The New Yorker in twenty twenty four that he stayed at youth hostels to avoid the sight of vacationing families. The article reads, when he got back, he cleared out the Duxbury House and drove around town handing off his children's stuffed animals and unused arcade cards to friends. And then he went to Costa Rica.

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Gave away his kids' stuff, he said?

• 53:31Speaker 01

  So The New Yorker says he kept the sentimental things, but he also gave away a lot of things and that is also caused a lot of controversy and conversation online. Some parents are saying, I lost my child. I kept every single thing, like their room. You never clean out their room. You wanna keep it forever. You have to like force yourself to clean out their room. Others are saying they see why maybe seeing everything was just more painful, but I saw more people kind of, but this is again, just my personal experience online. I saw more people kind of on the former of that quickly. Some people are saying maybe like three years later, you're like, okay, you're right. I need to get rid of things and I'm just holding on to it and it's unhealthy.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  You say one month after?

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  He's giving away a lot of the kids' stuff.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. And again, just because he has behavior that some people do not think makes sense does not mean that he's guilty of anything. That is not what we're saying. There's just lots of conversations to be had of everyone's behavior online. There is also an old Instagram post that starts circulating. I mean, fucking went viral, actually, not just circulating. It's from February twenty twenty three. It starts making its rounds on TikTok of a random netizen who was in Costa Rica in the month of February. The caption reads, Costa Rica was a blast. This trip was all about getting out of my comfort zone. And it goes on to list the posters experience in Costa Rica. But netizens notice a very specific person in many of the pictures in the carousel, the Instagram carousel,

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Rachel Dannis in Costa Rica in February, which has netizens spinning initially. Perhaps Patrick and Rachel were in Costa Rica together in February, which if that were the case, that would at least to some degrees indicate maybe that there's some sort of relationship prior to the children's murders. The original poster has come out to post a clarifying statement. And again, these are pictures of hers that were posted back in twenty twenty three that are now going viral.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  It is Rachel?

• 55:27Speaker 01

  For sure. It's Rachel and they confirm it's Rachel, but there's a lot that they say that debunk some of the other speculations. And I'm sure they're getting bombarded with questions and comments and they indicate that not all of them have been civil. But they write, and this has been a condensed statement, but they write on Instagram, Rachel and I met while participating in the same five day organized group trip to Costa Rica from February first to February fifth of twenty twenty three. The travel company organizes group trips for solo travelers. I joined the trip independently and did not know Rachel or any of the other travelers beforehand. She says the group obviously spent a lot of time together, which is why Rachel is in a lot of the pictures, but it's not like they're best buds, right? They haven't spoken since the trip.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  They continue to say, when the organized trip ended, we all went home. Patrick was not a participant in our trip. This is very important to note because the Clancy children's funeral was February third and it doesn't appear that Patrick went to Costa Rica until later in February. So Rachel, according to the original poster, who doesn't appear to have anything to gain from not telling the truth, says that they all went home, so nothing would indicate that Rachel stayed behind to meet up with Patrick.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  They continue, Rachel and I have not maintained contact since my trip. My experience with Rachel was limited to those five days. I don't have information that would allow me to comment on the circumstances surrounding this case and I won't speculate about them. They also leave a pinned comment where she further addresses the question, saying, one additional point for anyone asking about Patrick, I have no recollection of seeing him during the trip or of his name coming up in conversation. I don't know Patrick and therefore wouldn't have had knowledge of his whereabouts. So it does not appear as of right now that they were together, but some still think the coincidence is just bizarre. Together there or not, but out of all the damn countries in the world, it just seems weird. Others questioned Patrick for even going to Costa Rica a month after his kids were murdered, regardless of

• 57:25Speaker 01

  if he saw Rachel, didn't see Rachel. And then some are saying, leaving reviews for hiking trails, which again, that has been not confirmed. But one person writes, I have warned everyone that if anything were to happen to my children, you will literally watch me rot away because I cannot move forward after. Everyone grieves different, but writing fucking Google reviews three weeks after your children die? To which the opposing sentiment is, going to Costa Rica, or at least, this is a quote from a comment, going to Costa Rica, or at the very least away from Lindsay in that area is probably the best thing he could have done for himself. Someone argues back, I just learned it's illegal to enjoy nature after your ex-wife brutally murders your children. I think the Costa Rica thing probably is not what I would do at all.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  I can't see anyone that I know also doing that, but that's very different. Like maybe we're just not big traveler. I don't know, right? I just can't imagine going to Costa Rica that quickly and just because I can't imagine it doesn't mean that nobody else would do that and that's not the best thing for them in that moment. This unconfirmed hiking review, though, I I will say is a little weirder than the Costa Rica trip itself. And I think the argument there would be that it's not about hiking or not hiking. I guess the review itself is kind of odd. Cause the hiking would make sense, like you're, maybe you're trying to refine yourself. I don't know. I don't know what would happen, right? But people have very passionate opinions. Another comment reads, this is not how a man who loses his whole family grieves. This is a man who thinks he got away with it.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  And right under that, someone writes, had a coworker whose wife murdered his son and shot his daughter and then took herself out. He went on a self-seeking trip himself after, so. It's just really all you can do after a situation like that. I think everyone's own personalities play too big of a role when determining whether or not someone thinks it's weird when Patrick does something. So it's really hard to say with certainty if something feels off or strange because everyone's just pulling from, well, I know someone that something similar happened and they did this. Or it's like something similar happened to me and I did this. I can't imagine myself behaving this way. It's just even with myself, I catch myself being like, okay, I don't know how much of it is just anecdotal at this point of having an opinion. But there does not seem to be any credible evidence that could 100% verify and would

• 59:35Speaker 01

  establish Rachel having accompanied Patrick to Costa Rica a month after his children's murders. But speaking of reviews, there is a review that has been heavily attributed to Rachel and it's for a fishing charter company in Massachusetts, which allegedly Rachel, who people presumed to be Rachel, wrote that she's been using this fishing charter company in Massachusetts for years, which people were wondering, what the hell are you doing in this random Massachusetts area going fishing? What ties do you have to Massachusetts?

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  What kind of review is this? Yelp? It's just her name? How do we know it's her?

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  It's Rachel Dannis, isn't it? Yeah. And even if this is Rachel's real review and she did have connections with Massachusetts fishing charter companies, there's no link in the review to Patrick. It's not like me and my boyfriend Patrick. It does not establish that Rachel knew Patrick before the Clancy children were murdered. And then on top of that, a TikTok came out of a girl claiming to be the Rachel Dannis reviewer stating, "When internet sleuths think you're Patrick Clancy's new wife." Some say that this TikToker is now trying to get attention online because this would be a very easy way to get onto the algorithm, but I just don't see why she would make up a lie about this. But again, I could be very naive. She does include footage of her on a boat fishing, catching a rather large fish at that.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  So it does seem like it's her. And she says there is more than one Rachel Dannis in this world and she has since changed her TikTok profile name to R A Y dash chill, C H I L L, Dannis. Some of the more serious accusations that have been thrown out online, though, are of people accusing Patrick and Rachel of having an affair and masterminding the children's murders and framing it on Lindsay. And for obvious reasons, I do have to state just clearly again and again, that Patrick nor Rachel, they have never been named a suspect in the deaths of the Clancy children. There is zero official evidence that would point to Patrick being involved in the children's death.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  And official evidence is exactly what I said it is, official evidence. There is nothing that the police have said or indicated that they think that Patrick was involved, nothing the prosecutors have said or indicated where they think that Patrick was involved. Now, how much weight you put on official evidence is a personal choice that you have to make yourself. But there is zero official evidence that would point to Patrick being involved in the children's death. The only one that has been arrested, charged, and has been on trial for the deaths of their three children is Lindsay Clancy. Patrick Clancy has not been named a suspect. He has not been named a person of interest.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  He is not the target of any investigation that we know of. And I do want to make it abundantly clear again that Rachel Dannis is relevant to the public story because she is Patrick's current wife and has decided to do an incredibly high-profile 60 Minutes interview with Patrick Clancy about this case. She's not connected to the case because she is part of the criminal investigation in any way. She was not even named a witness. She was not named really anything. There's nothing pertaining her to this case. But because of the nature of everything and the fact that Patrick is remarried and a lot of netizens have been left to speculate, one person writes a lengthier comment speculating, "You gotta wonder about Rachel. I do not think Patrick Clancy had any part of the murders, but dude still had hell of a lot going on and was kind of in the center of a shitstorm.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Why would a woman want to sign up for that? Did they not anticipate this trial was going to become this? Is he really that much of a catch that you would put up with all of this for him? Maybe she likes helping broken people. I must be selfish as fuck because I don't think any man would be worth all of this." And those types of comments actually led to more speculations. Like that's the energy of people being like, unless she knew him before and unless this was the plan. These are again, internet theories, rumors, and speculations. And with that heavy disclaimer, that is where I leave you with the first half of this episode. Before we get into the second half where we dissect, I mean, the 60 Minutes interview, practically phrase by phrase, because at this point, every single sentence that was uttered

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  in that 60 Minutes interview has been debated to the depths, the ninth circle of hell and back. Please stay safe and I'll see you then.

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  Oh, look. You just got added to a meeting about coordinating another meeting to prepare for the pre-meeting ahead of the follow-up meeting, which will, of course, require a recap meeting and then another meeting. Hit your booking point? Book with Southwest and enter airplane mode.

• 1:04:38Speaker 04

  There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still? Not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now, we are here to help you keep going further. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.