Face Smashing w/ Hammers & Painfully Stretching Private Parts To Get Hot - Dark Side of Looksmaxxing

It's unclear who the saying "it can always be worse", is meant for. A girl named Liv is suspicious that her boyfriend of 8 months is cheating on her. But it can always be worse, right? But what if it's as bad as it can get? What if there is no worse… this is the bottom? Then what? Liv reaches over while Mason sleeps. There is only one way to find out if he's cheating on her, go through his phone. Within the hour, she's packing her things and making a run for it. What she found wasn't another woman. It was Mason negotiating prices with strangers on Telegram: $20 for videos, $30 for megalinks, $80 for all of the above. And links to what she later described to police as little girls between the ages of 6 and 7 years old, some as young as 3. This is the case of Mason Hullo, a TikTok looksmaxxer exposed by his ex for purchasing CSAM, and his bizarre excuse behind why. Full show notes available at RottenMangoPodcast.com

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Sunny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception, his mom. Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface. Watch the Hulu original series Phony, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive, save hundreds. Because switching your home and auto insurance is better than cutting down on the things you love, like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day?

• 0:44Speaker 00

  So, switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Badabing, badaboo.

• 1:00Speaker 00

  I will say it's quite unclear who the saying, "It can always be worse," is meant for. Like, is it supposed to be uplifting? Don't complain about your weak jawline, it can always be worse. You could have big doe eyes instead of sexy hunter eyes. How will people know that you're a predator and not a prey? Or is it just supposed to be dismissive? Your complaint does not match this imaginary threshold I've created in my mind about the amount of distress you can be in, so quit complaining. Either way, it can always be worse. It's not a very productive, nor is it a very helpful comment to ever make. Like, what does that even mean? A girl named Liv is very suspicious that her boyfriend, for the past eight months, has been cheating on her.

• 1:44Speaker 00

  But it can always be worse, right? But what if it's as bad as it can possibly get? What if there is no worse? This is the bottom, then what do you say? Liv and Mason have been together for about eight months and she has this gut feeling that he is cheating on her, enough so that she either wakes up or stays awake until seven in the morning and she notices that he's asleep in bed next to her, which, side note, how dare he rest? And that's not sarcasm, I'm being very serious. How dare he slumber? He's snoozing away. Liv reaches over and there is only one way to find out if he's cheating on her, which is go through his phone. What else is there to do? She starts going through it, his messages, his most recent chat history.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  And within the next hour or so, Liv hastily packs some of her things, practically makes a run for it. She leaves without waking him up. She doesn't even seem to leave a note, nothing. She just gets out of there. Because Liv went in there with the suspicion that he was cheating on her, which, sure, it can always be worse, but what she finds in his phone is the quote, "worse." It doesn't get worse from here. This is the worst thing that could be found on his phone. And she has all the evidence, she's going to the police with it, and he hasn't been discreet about it either. I mean, usually when you combine a profile picture of breasts with an unknown user on Telegram, yeah, your girlfriend is probably gonna go through the chat history.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  I'm not sure what Liv was expecting, perhaps the worst, or at least the worst that she and probably most others can imagine, which, like, maybe he's cheating. Maybe he's talking to an OF model and he's giving away their shared money that they were saving to buy a house so he could get more pictures of said breasts. Maybe it's his mom's profile picture and this is a very normal occurrence in their family, like, I don't know. It can always be worse, right? She clicks open the chat. The unknown user is messaging her boyfriend, Mason. CP, teens, and all group links available. Which package are you interested in and what's your budget?

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Wait, who's texting this?

• 3:49Speaker 00

  This unknown Telegram profile with boobs is texting her boyfriend, okay? Which is alarming, right? But it could always be a scam. It could be a spam message, a fisher. But her boyfriend, Mason, responds. CP, $25 max. They respond, "Okay, I get quality CP mega link with large good files of 2,500 HD video files." Liv is reading as the two of them start going down the path of talking about how the payment is going to be secured. Her boyfriend, that's laying right next to her, is sending pictures showing that the payment went through. And that's not the only message. She clicks another conversation that her boyfriend initiates with a suspicious user. Her boyfriend starts the conversation, "Hi." The other party responds, "CP content available."

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Her boyfriend asks, "How much?" And they respond, "$20 for videos, $30 for mega links, $40 for joining CP group, $80 for all of the above." Her boyfriend, Mason, seemingly voices his pick by texting back, "Okay, $20." He is then redirected to message another user, which has some variation of like, "trusted seller" in their username, so that's promising. He's told to message him to get a link for the content. The boyfriend messages them April 27th. And the next day, presumably after getting the link, he asks for more content and states that he's willing to pay $10. She clicks on one of the links and she later describes to the police, she saw little girls

• 5:16Speaker 00

  between the ages anywhere between six to like 10 years old and some as young as three years old, toddlers. This is the case of Mason Hull, a TikTok influencer, looks maxer to be exact, who was exposed by his ex-girlfriend for purchasing CSAM and all of his bizarre excuses and why there are still a small but strong group of people that support him.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support NACMEC, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. They are the nation's largest and most influential child protection organization. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers and we'd also like to thank our listeners for your continued support. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmangopodcast.com. Today's case involves mentions of illicit drug usage, that's forced misogynist rhetoric, essay, CSAM, please prioritize your own health, take a break if you need to. Statements and quotes may be condensed for brevity and with that in mind, let's begin. It is, um, it's kind of like a horror movie. So you picture a high school guy named Norm.

• 6:46Speaker 00

  He's not, um, he's not like the most conventionally attractive person out there, but like objectively speaking, I guess you could say that Norm has, he has troubled skin, his skin is full of acne and blemishes, he's not ripped or jacked like the high school jocks, his jawline is nonexistent thanks to his very hungry appetite, like, he's on the shorter side. His eyes are dark brown, his shoulders are slumped, god, his fucking shoulders are very slim, is what Norm would say. And his neck is way too skinny and he's got big doe-ass eyes, like little Bambi caught in some headlights, that's what Norm looks like. Norm is every normal teenage high school boy and he decides that he is going to ask out his crush, his one true love, a girl named Becky, who he believes he has a very good

• 7:31Speaker 00

  chance at because they're both not, they're both not that popular. They're not the most conventionally attractive, they're kind of the outcast. Norm asks Becky to go to prom with him, but Becky, Becky the bitch, doesn't just reject him, she chuckles in his face, she goes around telling everyone, he gives her the creeps and she's so flabbergasted that he would even fathom the idea that they could ever be together for such an important event like prom. This sends Norm over the edge. He grabs a hammer, a used Home Depot hammer from his parents' garage and he starts hitting his face with the hammer. He starts taking substances to stay awake and lose weight, he's barely consuming enough calories to survive. He slips in insoles into his shoes, he finds testosterone on the black market from some

• 8:14Speaker 00

  random suspicious third-party retailer that is definitely not a doctor or a licensed pharmacist and he starts taking testosterone and steroids. He starts pulling at his face, snorting lines of Accutane. He's probably just taking the pills, but that's being dramatic. And now, he has transformed. He has ascended, they say, from Norm to Chad Light. And now, when he walks by Becky the bitch in the hallways, all she can do is leave a trail of drool, like a snail trail, because she is so mesmerized by his masculinity, by his appearance, by his looks. But Norm, I mean Chad Light now, walks right past loser Becky in the hallway and straight up to the blonde, hot cheerleader Stacy and asks her out. She, of course, says yes, but nothing else, because hot girls should never speak, duh,

• 8:59Speaker 00

  you know, that's what makes them hot. And they ride off into the distance, riding each other, except not really, because Chad Light has erectile dysfunction from all the substances he's been pumping for his transformation. But that's not the point. The point is, he has mogged everybody. Welcome to the wet dreams and inner ramblings and fantasies of a looks maxer. Do I think-

• 9:21Speaker 01

  That's their fanfic?

• 9:22Speaker 00

  Basically. And I'm not even like joking with you, they write on forums like this.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Say this, write this? That's wow.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Do I think that everyone in the looks maxing community thinks like this? Probably not. Do I think that there's enough people that think this way, that it's almost become a meme? Absolutely. Now, I do wanna make a quick disclaimer, as a girl who went through an ugly phase in high school and is probably still in like the tail end of said ugly phase, just, just getting old enough not to really care about it, I do have a lot of sympathy for people who feel overwhelmed by societal pressure to change their appearance and meet some sort of arbitrary beauty standard that is most likely not even attainable, nor is it healthy in the long run. I don't judge a single person who gets consumed over their appearance. I don't think it's vain in the slightest, I think it's very understandable pain to look at yourself in the mirror and not be happy with what you see. I think everyone can relate to that.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  However, sometimes I think people's reasonings behind why they're doing such drastic things for their appearance is a little silly goofy. If it's to show Becky the bitch from high school that you're better than her, it's just kind of weird. I also think that if you're out here peddling all these methods, you call them, to children on how they can not be ugly and keep mugging and you're just like giving harmful advice such as blunt force trauma to the face via a hammer, I think it's free game to openly shit on those individuals if their net impact is a net negative to their audience. Like, yeah, maybe we should dissect some of their little thought patterns. So with that, let's get into the world of looks maxing. It's very hard to pinpoint, you know, looks maxing is difficult to define.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  At face value, it's just the idea that you need to take care of yourself because we live in a society where things like pretty privilege exist. So take care of your health, eat healthy, do your skincare, be hygienic, which I don't think inherently seems like a bad thing at all. In fact, I do think if you can afford it and you're able bodied, self grooming is not a bad idea. Like it's probably a very good thing to adopt. However, looks maxing is just not just that. They take it a step further where they have decided that not only are looks the most important thing in your life, but also there are only a few set of traits that are considered attractive. Everything else, you might as well roll around in dog shit and call it a day because you're never going to be considered hot.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  One looks maxer states, first impressions are visual, not verbal. So you're literally being judged before you even say anything. Think about when you see an attractive person out in public on the train or something. Your brain is literally making assumptions. You're perceiving who they are as a person before you even talk to them. It takes an extreme level of willpower and critical thinking to not judge someone based on how they look at first glance. I know a lot of you people are probably coping, you know, thinking people don't do that. It's literally hardwired into our psychology. I believe looks maxing is the future.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  I don't know if he's like fucking running for office. Okay. But let me say this. I think that it might be a trend currently at the moment, but I think something so hardwired into our brain and rooted into our biology is not going to leave. I think that we just all of a sudden understood the importance recently of this and it's only going to get bigger and bigger. He says that looks maxing can be broken into two groups, appeal and PSL. Appeal is literally maximizing how attractive you are in the real world and to others. Whereas PSL is maximizing your online little PSL score of how attractive you are objectively by measurements that are made in looks maxing forums.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  PSL, what does that stand for?

• 12:54Speaker 00

  We're gonna get there. Yeah, it gets crazy. So I looked into it. It ranges from zero to eight. Okay, eight being high. PSL doesn't stand for anything that's going to be enlightening. So to everyone's surprise, it does not stand for pumpkin spice latte. It actually stands for PUHATE, which was a back then online forum.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  PUHATE?

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, pick up artist hate. I was thinking, pick up artist hate. They must be for the girls. Yeah, sign me up. I want to be on that forum. Um, it is now like a defunct forum and they hated pick up artists. Not because they stand for women and not manipulating women, but they said that pick up artists are online schemers who sell ugly boys courses. And it doesn't matter how charismatic or funny you are because girls only like hot chats. So it will never work.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  All right, the boys are fighting.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, the boys are fighting by themselves on who's uglier. It's so weird. Then there's another one, slut hate, lookism, PSL. Yeah. But now they've relabeled it perceived sexual level scale, but it originally stood for, this is like the incel looks maxing initial three trifecta forums that existed. Like this is before Reddit. Well, I don't know if Reddit was around, but this is before like instead of you used to go to PUHATE.com versus like r slash PUHATE. You know what I mean? PUHATE, but yeah, PSL, perceived sexual level scale. Here's the scale. You have to judge the face based off of four categories. Harmony, how well your features work together.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  Dimorphism, how distinct you look from the opposite sex. Angularity, how sharp you look, so low body fat. And miscellaneous, which is your individual features such as eyebrow thickness, skin clarity, nasolabial folds, color, contrast, nose shape, teeth, hair. The lowest tier is point two five to one point five in PSL ranking. That tier is called subhuman. So they're like straight to the chase. They don't really beat around the bush. Only one in two thousand people make it into the lowest tier, which is described as individuals falling within this category are exceptionally unattractive and often exhibit deformities. Revealing their face could genuinely frighten people and they have almost no redeeming facial qualities.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  And that, um, quote, real cause of medical and surgical consultation. Then you have one point five to three, which is a low tier normie. Normie being a mediocre bitch, basically. Okay. One in seven people fall into this category. I genuinely don't know how the math adds up, but here we are, right? I don't think looks maxers are known for their mathematical abilities. Individuals falling into this category possess an ordinary level of unattractiveness. You're just like regular ugly. They might face bullying due to their appearance, generally considered ugly in real life, but nothing serious. Great. So not seriously ugly, just like moderately ugly. Love it. Then you have two to four point five, which is the mid tier normie.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  One in two people fit in this standard according to who the fuck knows. And it is described as individuals belonging to this group are entirely average. They epitomize the common person. While they might be seen as unattractive by a few, in truth, they are simply ordinary.

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Then you have four point five to five point five tier, the high tier normies. Individuals falling into this group are typically seen as appealing and good looking, often being among the most attractive individuals in a classroom or a small workplace setting. So tell me why in this example list for this tier, some mashed potato for brain looks maxer placed photos of Michael B. Jordan and Zendaya as high tier normies. I don't know what the looks maxers have against Michael B. Jordan because another one rated Michael B. Jordan. They said, actually he's three point five. He's quote, super facially challenged. Which is not what

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Super facially?

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. It's not what any women alive thinks, especially after the movie Sinners, but like, okay, sure. Then you have the tier above, the five to five, five, five point five to six, Chad light. Individuals falling into this category experience an advantage in their lives.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Do they ever show their own face?

• 17:11Speaker 00

  Um, usually not. Usually not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course not. So in my head, they just look like a fucking giga Chad. Yeah, I'm just like, okay, sure. Like you look like the drawing, not a real giga Chad, like the drawing of the giga Chad. Yeah. Yeah. And they say, um, advantage in their lives due to their looks, huge advantage. Their appearance can potentially launch a modeling career or lead to a substantial following on social media. Above that is six to seven point two five. These are the real chats. Not the fucking diet version, not the light, the reels. Individuals belonging to this category would easily stand out in a crowd, often possessing at least one striking feature, if not more. They typically encounter no difficulties with attracting romantic partners unless facing severe mental health issues.

• 17:57Speaker 00

  Their looks serve as an extreme advantage in various aspects of their lives. Then there is seven point two five to seven point seven five to eight, the giga chats. Widely recognized for their exceptional looks characterized by extremely minimal flaws such as slightly unideal eye spacing or subtle variations in brow color and nose shape. These individuals are rare with only a handful found globally. They are considered the elite of the modeling world due to their near perfect features. Then you have the terra chats, seven point seven five to eight. Anything in this category is impossible. Attaining this level is virtually impossible. No one can achieve absolute perfection or universal attractiveness to every woman worldwide.

• 18:39Speaker 00

  This destination is reserved for mythical features like Adonis or Apollo.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  It's like a lot. Okay. The arbitrary rankings are just a whole bunch of nonsense that has looks maxers whipping out Adobe Photoshop to get facial measurements on someone's face. For example, ideally the width of the eye should be three times its vertical height.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Like, now we're all Asian.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  You know, have you seen those, um, people put, put the

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Chad, yes.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Like the, the Photoshop people's face into like a full, uh,

• 19:12Speaker 00

  The perfect face, yes.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  And then they all look so weird.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  So gross, yes. That's what the looks maxers want. That's what they dream about. The symmetry for some has almost become like an obsession. The face has to like have facial symmetry that abide by the facial thirds rule. I guess if you want to have a chance at feeling a cuddle from like a fellow warm body, you have to have like perfectly thirds. It's got to be imaginary thirds. Okay. Each segment must occupy one third of the face's total height. Forehead is a third. This part is a third. Your lower part needs to be a third. And it's not just the only random test out there. There's also the very, very real, very, I mean, everybody abides by this because of course we do.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  The SMV, that stands for sexual market value, which takes into your account, your job, your popularity, your weight, height, facial rating to figure out your value in some sort of horned up farmer's market. This is exactly what happens when I go out with my girlfriends. We sit there and I say, what the fuck is his SMV? Let's calculate right now. Bring out your calculator because we're dumb and we don't know how to do math because we're just girls. Like, what are you talking about?

• 20:27Speaker 00

  I'm gonna be honest, guys. I don't remember the last time I wrote in Korean. I can have conversations with my family out loud, but every time I have to text my dad, we just end up calling because I don't think he can decipher anything that I typed to him. With Rosetta Stone Sapphire, their biggest launch in over a decade, I can practice my writing in personalized games that actually make it fun to learn. It's one of the coolest new features called Chat Missions. You're put in interactive scenarios and given three objectives, a mission to accomplish, like asking how much something costs, ordering a cold brew coffee, getting a wifi password. Along the way, you get real time corrections and feedback to help you sound more natural and confident. It's a supportive way to build confidence before putting your language skills to use in real life.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  And it incorporates Rosetta Stone's industry-leading immersive method for language learning with new learning tools powered by the latest in learning technology. If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire. Rotten Mango listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. This gets you access to Rosetta Stone Sapphire in 25 languages. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over and over again? Those are the pieces that earn a permanent place in your wardrobe. And that's exactly what Quince does so well. Quince is your go-to for quality essentials that feel cozy. They look so refined and they're not gonna blow your budget. They figured out how to make luxury pieces actually affordable by working directly with the same factories that make stuff for high-end brands.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  No middleman markup, no inflated prices. You have the same quality materials and craftsmanship, but for literally half of what you pay elsewhere. You guys already know how I feel about my Quince Mongolian cashmere sweaters. There is something about it that just gives quiet luxury. The best part is everything feels intentional and well-made. These aren't pieces I'm gonna get tired of next season. They're the kind of quality basics that just make getting dressed easier. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Rotten Mango. It's the best way to support the show. For kids, summer means freedom. And for adults, summer still means freedom, thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  Right now, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. Free yourself from big wireless and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. When I made the switch to Mint, everything stayed the same, except for the money that I was saving. I got to keep my phone, my number, save my time, my money, and the coverage stayed the same. No loopholes, no hidden fees. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/rotten. That's mintmobile.com/rotten. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/rotten. That's it, there's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months, plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only.

• 23:24Speaker 00

  Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Looksmaxing and looksmaxers seem to be part of the manosphere, the red pill, black pill, if you will. If you've ever, if you've ever been confused, just know that if you click on a livestream, and it must be a livestream, it cannot be like a video, and it's not taking place in a hotel convention center. And you just see a bunch of dudes in a nice, modern house in Los Angeles or Miami. It's typically one of those two cities. And it's a bunch of white guys wearing suits, holding cigars while flashing their watches and Cuban link chains. And you realize that they're not attending any sort of formal event that would require a suit. They did not just get back from a wedding or some sort of work convention. This is the event. The livestream is the event.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  They just look like a fucking butler from The Ritz in Paris. You're probably stumbling upon some looksmaxers to some degree. And more often than not, they can be considered part of the manosphere. They all just feed into each other's pipelines, the pill pipeline. Which drug would you like? There's a lot of pills. We know the main ones, red, blue, black. Okay, so the pill color indicates basically like how much are you getting?

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Hold on, hold on. Say that a little bit. Okay, back to the livestream.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  So there are a bunch of guys dressed in suits with, holding a cigar, sitting around a table or standing there? What are they doing?

• 24:57Speaker 00

  So sometimes they sit around the table, and it's like the juxtaposition of the men in suits in like gaming chairs and like roll-around office chairs. And they're all like sitting in a semicircle and then where the other half of the circle, the livestream camera. Or sometimes it's like IRL livestream, someone's following the whole mansion and they're all just like standing on the balcony. You can see the City of Angels behind them and they've got a cigar.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  They're, they're streamers or?

• 25:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, they're streamers. And like, it's just a bunch of dudes. You don't see a woman in sight and they just talk about women.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Oh, I see.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  I've actually never seen that even like as a clip before. Is that a big trend or?

• 25:41Speaker 00

  You know, I, I went to the depths of really messing up my algorithm for this one, okay? I didn't see any casually until this, but it seems like they're popular.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Are their audience mostly men then?

• 25:54Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like a circle jerk. And like when I, I mean, you're gonna know these people. It's like, um, I don't know what his name is. I forget his name. I just feel like he's, can't say that on camera, but I forget his name. But like the Tate brothers hang out with them. It's like the manosphere.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  I see. Are they lookmaxers or?

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Are they considered?

• 26:18Speaker 00

  Manosphere is, looksmaxers are like a subset of the manosphere. Not all looksmaxers are part of the manosphere. It's like not all Christians go to church, right? Type of vibe, but.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  Do they call themselves lookmaxers?

• 26:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think the Tate brothers do.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Do you have to look a certain way to call yourself lookmaxer?

• 26:37Speaker 00

  I mean, probably because you might get laughed out if you don't. I think the Tate brothers are just criminals, but.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I see, I see, okay.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  All right, so those livestreams, got it.

• 26:48Speaker 00

  Yes, also, if you want a video on the Tate brothers, let me know because while I was going down the whole rabbit hole, I did see their arrest footage. And I just want to say one thing and one thing only, and this is my only opinion right now that I'm going to give you. I don't even think I own a pair of pants that tight, even in my ho-iest of ho days. Never. It's cutting off circulation. It's basically like compression pants. He's going, like, is he trying to get on a plane? Anyway, the pill color indicates how strong the misogyny coursing through the veins is and probably is a direct correlation of how often you get laid. I'm only half kidding, but not really. Red pill appears to be how it all started.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  It's from the movie The Matrix, which is like a movie you cannot watch anymore without having incels talking about it. If you take the red pill, you've watched the movie, red pill, blue pill. If you take the red pill, that means you have woken up to the system of the real world, where you realize women have the advantage and female oppression is a myth. Typically, women are manipulative, lying, scheming creatures who really only care about status and looks. And they will tell you that they want someone with a good personality, but in reality, they just want a rich Chad with a fat wallet who walks like it's heavy. That's it. Blue pill means a man who has not woken up to his reality. A lot of red pillers think that blue pillers are doormats putting women on pedestals. They haven't taken the red pill yet. They're just a bunch of bozos.

• 28:18Speaker 00

  And then you have the purple pill. Usually someone who is both red and blue pill, they agree with aspects of both sides, but they're not as aggressively like one or the other. They, yeah. And then you have the black pillers and they seem to be where a lot of the looksmaxers fit in. So red pill is typically synonymous with incels.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  Black pill too, but black pillers have this, they do have intimate relations, it seems, however sparse. I believe black pillers believe that the system is too far gone to change. This is just how life is and how life is going to be forever. Looks are at the center of everything and there's no way to change it. But looksmaxers within the black pill community, instead of taking on the very nihilistic approach of, well, then what's the point of trying? They aggressively try. They do everything to change how they look so they can bring up their sexual market value. And for them, women are just numbers to be conquered that will enforce their SMV.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  So do they care about anything else besides look? Do they care about like?

• 29:21Speaker 00

  Fame, aura?

• 29:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no, but like substance, like?

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Substance abuse, yes, but no personality.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  They believe that women don't care for personality.

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Oh, like brain, personality, nothing, just appearances?

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Women care about looks first and then fame, status and money second. And then nothing else, really.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Interesting. Wow, they think looks is, okay, I mean, it makes sense to them, but wow.

• 29:50Speaker 00

  But not sense to anyone else, because I feel like we've had this conversation too. We were talking to a bunch of, yeah, we were like, oh yeah, what do you guys categorize? And like, pretty much every girl I know is like, oh yeah, personality. I just need them to be fucking funny. Yeah, it's interesting. Now, looks maxing is a term that was developed in the early twenty teens on, like I said, openly misogynistic forums like P way hate, slut hate, lookism. It's technically an ideology that appearance is the end all be all. Just based off how you look, it's going to dictate who you date, how much money you make, and pretty much every other aspect of your life. Now, I will say I do have some like level of sympathy for looks maxers in the sense of, um, I think they're like feeling what girls feel.

• 30:33Speaker 00

  Of like, damn, people will judge my looks before they judge anything else. That kind of sucks. So I understand and I think it is a very miserable place to be. But I do think, um, the hatred that's placed on women is probably not great. That's the part where I'm like, oh, you're losing us. You're losing lots of people. It's kind of getting weird and violent and scary.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 30:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, but just know that the looks maxing, black pill, red pill, pipeline is very alive and well. It's being maintained every single day by some chiseled Chads. Who on the internet dream about live streaming with the likes of the Tate brothers, wearing booty tight trousers that you will only see in West Hollywood at the gay bars. Someone on Reddit describes it like this, blue pill, they tell you, just be yourself and a girl will date you. Red pill, just have game, otherwise they don't care. Black pill, just be hot. Purple pill, just be a little bit of every pill with moderation. And the best way to be the king of the looks maxers, the king of the black pills is to mog. Mog so hard, you don't remember a time where you were not mogging. It all starts and ends with mogging.

• 31:42Speaker 00

  According to Clavicular, more on him later, one of the biggest moggers on the internet, Poster Child for looks maxers. He says mog comes from A M O G, an acronym which he states used to stand for alpha male of the group. But now they just shortened it to mog. It means you out hot whoever you're standing next to. The looks maxers take it so seriously. They have world war mogs.

• 32:09Speaker 00

  They have a place called Mogwarts. It's a paid course where they teach you how to be the moggiest of moggers. So you can forever mog.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Okay, how do you do that?

• 32:20Speaker 00

  I didn't pay. It's fifty dollars a month, honey. Yeah, you can height mog, just means you're taller than whoever you're standing next to. Frame mog, you're more jacked than the person you're standing next to. Neck mog, you've got a wider neck. This is a good thing. The wide neck epidemic needs to be studied in the future. There are pictures that looks maxers will show you what the perfect neck looks like. Just think of your neck to be the exact width of your face. It's a lot of neck. It's just like a tree trunk implanted under your chin. Decapitation is a far away worry for any real looks maxer because their neck is just a behemoth.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  One person says, a big problem that I see with a lot of guys is their neck is simply too skinny compared to the size of their head. Because it's too small, their entire facial harmony and facial masculinity is thrown off, which makes them less attractive.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Also, they need to do eye corner pulling, which if you do in public, I'm gonna call you racist, but it's just like where you like do this, okay? It's like you stretch the sides of your eye. And they say this is something that is meant to train the muscles around your eyes over time, teaching those muscles to hold your eyes in a sharper position. It will essentially allow you to achieve more hunter-like eyes over time. They want your eyes to look predatory. Do they look predatory? No, these looks maxers just look like they're fucking squinting, like it's too bright in the room and they're squinting all the time. Hunter eyes, I mean, they're supposed to be deep set in the face, no upper eyelid exposure.

• 33:53Speaker 00

  Studies, apparently, they cite random studies, okay, have shown that individuals with hunter eyes are generally perceived as more attractive. They say be careful though with the hunter eyes exercises because the skin around the eyes is very thin and sensitive. Optometrists have come forward to say, don't do that. Don't even try doing that, but okay. You must also mew to the gods. It's your sacrifice that you must make to the deities. One looks maxer says, mewing is a must. We should all be mewing twenty-four seven. So you, you know what mewing is, right? The tongue has to sit on the roof of your mouth and it makes your jaw more chiseled. Apparently it's the correct tongue placement.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  I don't know. A lot of this stuff is just silly goofy stuff that the girly pops invented and guys have rebranded it. Infringed upon our girly trademarks and renamed it something that sounds more masculine, so they don't feel gay while they do a nine step skincare routine. God forbid. He did. But he's been more open to it these days. Nevertheless, they're mewing. They're doing skincare. They're also just like doing color theory. They say your teeth should match the whiteness of your eye whites, because if it's whiter than that, you look uncanny, you look unnatural. Freaky color theory, but color theory nonetheless. But also for men, the mouth has to be wide. If not wide, there's no point in even opening your mouth to talk.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  If you don't have a wide mouth, were you not, it's not entirely hopeless. You still have a chance at living a meaningful life and contributing to society. You could always get a mouth expander. Or perhaps that could interest you in having the simple procedure of having a doctor cut open the sides of your mouth to make it wider. But why have a doctor do it when you have a pair of scissors and a roll of gauze at home?

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Are people doing that?

• 35:40Speaker 00

  I would say, yeah, but more so at the doctor's office.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Does it work?

• 35:47Speaker 00

  I actually don't see it a lot with the mouth as much as I see it with the eyes. It's actually a pretty common procedure, um, in other countries to cut the sides of your eyes to make a bigger wide, a wider eye, a bigger eye. Yeah. And again, I say, I think a lot of people watching can relate to the misery that is trying to be conventionally attractive. So this is not me trying to be snarky or say like, huh, look at them trying to be hot. When like, we're all trying to be hot and we're all failing miserably. It's just the way they go about it is a little weird. And the way that like, I think also, maybe I'm not conveying correctly, if you take-

• 36:25Speaker 01

  I think they're too judgmental, right?

• 36:27Speaker 00

  They're too, yes, too judgmental to each other and to kids who go on the forum, like fourteen year old boys. And on top of that, all of this angst that they have of feeling conventionally attractive is directed straight into hatred for women.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's not empowering, it's negative, yeah.

• 36:46Speaker 00

  So that's why we're poking fun. It's not because it's like snarky, like, haha, look at them, they're pathetic, like, we're all pathetic, right? But it's just brutal. There's subreddits like r slash true rate me. And people will post pictures of themselves to have anonymous, but most likely guys that smell like wet moldy towels and a greasy keyboard. Rate some of the prettiest people I've seen. And they say, oh, you're a six point two on a good day with makeup. And I'm like, that person could be on a TV show. They tell other people, seemingly underage boys, that they're not mogging hard enough and they should chew on a towel. Which is a thing, it's called towel chewing, towel pulling or whatever, and you bite on a towel so you can train your jaw. You add stress to your mastoid muscles to make your jawline look sharper.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  And again, I can't even judge that because there are lots of people who get masters botox to make their jaw look slimmer, but it's just, I would never advise an underage person to do that. There's towel maxing, thumb pulling, where you put your thumbs on the roof of your mouth every single day, a few times a day, and you pull because you're trying to pull out the upper palate, because the last thing you want, the last thing a looks maxer wants is your lower face to be recessed, like a mouth breather, they say.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  So when you're not trying to rearrange your face, you're also gym maxing, so you can rearrange your body. And a very important message if you're gym maxing is you must post photos of yourself gym maxing, which results in the looks maxing community to just be filled with guys posting thirst traps. Shirtless thirst traps, flexing their neck muscles, sucking in their cheeks. They, they love sucking in their cheeks to get like a defined jawline. Yeah, like they're sucking on a straw or something else so hard that their cheeks are like starting to cave in.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, just muscle memory sucking motion.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  So weird.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  So bizarre. And then it's just a bunch of guys commenting on those thirst traps, talking about how Chad, the original poster is, how good they look. It's almost by definition, I don't think we could get closer definitionally to a circle jerk filled with a bunch of guys. And you rarely ever see girls in that circle jerk. Except when the looks max or wannabes are talking about how the girls are gonna love how Chad someone is. Look, I don't know. Can I just say, if you're young and you're insecure about the way you look, looks maxing is probably not the right way to go, or at least the way it looks right now. Aside from a few, most of the looks maxers have this very uncanny valley look to them where they just look like wannabe cosplayers who escaped from Comic Con, which side note, I think cosplayers are typically very hot, but the looks maxers are so stiff.

• 39:24Speaker 00

  Like the cosplayers are cool and they're fun and they're just like the way they express themselves artistically is so attractive to see, right? But then looks maxers, they walk weird and they're always posing and sucking in that you just feel very uncomfortable watching them because they look so conscious about how they look. And then you start feeling their insecurities and you just want to leave because you feel uncomfortable. It's just weird. One looks maxer says, it does not just stop at looks though, okay? Status, fame, aura, connections are a huge part of the looks maxing journey. And maybe just as important, equally as important, is something they call banana maxing. Yeah, you never thought we'd get here, right? Banana maxing is making your banana the best in the market of your pants.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  One looks maxer gives the advice, weight loss can help reduce the fat pad under there, which can make your banana look a whole lot better. And there are vacuum tools out there, devices that you can use to temporary gain.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  They use the word banana?

• 40:20Speaker 00

  No.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, there's also um this like so they use pumps. It's like a vacuum.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  I always thought those were like for activities. I always thought people were getting those like because they're into certain scenes, right? But turns out looks maxers are a huge market. Yeah, I don't know where they're hiding it, but they just whip them out during live stream. I think clavicular has like a whole collection of them, yeah. They're giving advice, they're doing YouTube videos. Then there's the suspender bungee rope contraption you can wear. If I'm not mistaken, you attach something to your knee or somewhere down there. And then the other part is attached to your banana. And it's like a bungee cord down to your knee. So it's like trying to pull gravity down on your banana. And you're supposed to wear it all day under your pants. Just uncomfortable, absolutely, okay?

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Unbearable pain, fingers crossed it's not, does it work? Some claim after a year of wearing this torture device every single day, they have noticed about an inch of difference in a single year. So I mean, how long to get to eight, right? Maybe seven years, who knows? Have they put it to good use? I don't know, I imagine it's very sore. I don't even know if you could use it, but what do I know? And again, I think it's weird because and I'm not making fun of it. I also have very, I had insecurities about intimate parts of my body. And I, it's not like me shaming people for having those thoughts. I just think it's weird because I've never met a girl who cared about stuff like that. So it just feels a little misled, it feels a little misguided,

• 41:54Speaker 00

  and it feels very dangerous, if I might say, because clavicular himself has stated that he struggles heavily with erectile dysfunction from all of the substances and treatments that he's done. And I'm sure banana maxing was not helpful. But they rank it as important as shoe lifts, which they say the height gained from shoe lifts is not the most substantial. The insole is rather squishy, so the added height is actually not as much as it claims to be. So it's better to actually just wear a shoe that is naturally taller. And if all else fails, in the wise words of clavicular, you can always wear long pants and tiptoe max.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Which is like what I do when I wear long pants and I have to go into a public restroom. He's just tiptoe maxing, okay? All of this is also as equally important as wearing colored contacts, which one looks maxer describes as colored contacts can actually save a bad eye area. Never heard of a bad eye area, but apparently having brown eyes, you might as well get ready to live a life of pain and suffering. Some people are even getting eye color surgery, which is laser maxing straight to your retina so you can blue max, is what they say.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 43:00Speaker 00

  It just like takes all the pigment out of your eye and it is widely known to be dangerous and not worth it at all. I don't know what looks maxers have against a simple brown eye, but it's like the bane of their existence. Side note, a lot of these guys, not all looks maxers, but a lot of them think that men and women are not equal. They are rather complimentary, meaning you know, men are supposed to be in charge and women are supposed to listen, right? But are we supposed to listen to someone who's petrified of staring into the depths of his own brown eyes? I don't know if I would put my life in those people's hands. If you have brown eyes, you're cooked, that's what they say. Clavicular said, you know, if you, you can get the procedure. He says, you could probably slay tons of hot chicks while ascending and living in Mog City.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  I'll do this eventually in my life.

• 43:47Speaker 01

  Do what?

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Laser surgery for eye color change.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Oh, oh, he has brown eyes?

• 43:52Speaker 00

  I think they're like light brown.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  He doesn't like it, I see.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  There's also height surgery. Oh, yeah, oh, there's a whole caste system ranking for colors of eyes. If you have dark, almost black, brown eyes, you are quote untouchable sanitation workers, street sweepers. If they're dark brown, you're a manual laborer, peasant, street merchant. It goes all the way up in order of hazel, green, dark blue, to the very lightest blue color, which they state as quote, men destined to define eras and change history, who will be remembered for millennia to come. Which I also think light blue eyes are stunningly beautiful, as with all eye colors. But like they can't even really go out in the sun because it hurts their eyes so much. But like, okay, what's happening right now? This ranking is so weird. It's a goofy chart.

• 44:40Speaker 00

  If you have green eyes, that means you're an officer, an official or a diplomat. If you have dark blue eyes, you're an influential artist, writer in general. Where are we getting any of this information? I feel like the peptide maxing has melted everybody's brains. What is peptide maxing? I can't even tell you, but I know everyone's doing it. Wall Street is no longer full of coke heads. They're all peptide maxing, apparently. I almost got sold on peptide maxing. Someone was like, you can live a very long time for longevity and health. And then I realized, we're not in the good place, we're in the bad place. Why extend this day? Okay, I really still don't to this day know what peptide maxing is. But everyone's on peptides, it's a thing.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  Eyebrow maxing, same as shoulder maxing, height maxing. Oh, height maxing is a really big thing. People are even undergoing surgeries to height max where they like put a lever, they break your bone, they put a metal lever and then you have to like crank it every day for six months. And you just like grow a tiny bit every day.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Does it work?

• 45:38Speaker 00

  Um, I don't know, but it takes years to learn how to walk properly again. And some people, even after three, four years after height maxing surgery, they get excited at jogging. And like, it's just kind of sad because you know, there are lots of people who would die to have functioning legs or functioning eyes regardless of the eye color. It's just kind of depressing, but you can also shoulder max, wear shoulder pads. They do recommend only whipping those bad boys out during winter months though, because the layers help hide them, right? I did see one clip of clavicular just like throwing on um sticky boob under his T-shirt to make his shoulder more shoulder maxing, yeah. And I never, like, I never want to hear a looks maxer

• 46:21Speaker 00

  make the very unfunny joke of taking a girl swimming on the first date to see her without makeup. Because yeah, you've got two floaties strapped to your arms. I'll be drowning without makeup on and you'll be like a little airhead just bobbing around with your shoulder pads, keeping you afloat. Also, you've got four eyeballs, your colored contacts are rolling around in your eyes now because of the chlorine. We're all humbled by chlorinated water, it's just weird.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  One could make the very good argument that looks maxing is just hotter incels that sometimes get laid. But ultimately, like, how harmful is looks maxing? I think if looks maxing kept to themselves in this bubble where they all just are men raiding men's looks, maybe it's okay, but it just um, it gets unhealthy. If they just stuck to self-care grooming, maybe wearing makeup, which side note, looks maxers will do videos like how-to guides. They call it fraud maxing. Where they show you how to use eyebrow pencils to get chiseled jawlines, basically contour their face. It's like a repackage makeup tutorial. They're just doing get ready with me's, but they never call it that because they want to call it fraud maxing because that sounds, I think, more masculine.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  But is that really harmful at the end of the day? One person writes on a looks maxing forum. Hello, everyone, I'm a fourteen-year-old subhuman. I'm five, seven and a hundred and nineteen pounds and I'm ugly as fuck. I've lost twenty pounds in a month during an extreme cut, but I don't think I'm close at all to even looking okay. Please help me, I want to get better looking, please give me tips. The height to weight ratio with more cutting, probably unhealthy, I'm not sure. But one comment, instead of pointing that out or encouraging them because they're fourteen and calling themselves subhuman because of this random little scale online, they just comment back, get a haircut to cover your forehead, gee. Which is actually pretty tame because there's other people commenting things like, nothing you can fix with soft maxing, bro.

• 48:15Speaker 00

  Meaning, like, you gotta get surgery. Soft maxing is just grooming and eating healthy Accutane, but hard maxing is surgery, jaw surgery, eye surgery. You know, other people post nineteen, here's a picture of me, how can I improve? And someone will comment, you got a really frail, weak-looking body. Someone else comments, you look submissive as fuck. Take roids and get a genio like looks or you're cooked. Genio is shorthand for a sliding geneoplasty, which is where the chin bone is cut and they slide your chin forward and reposition it. It's to fix, I mean, there's real medical reasons why you would need this, but aesthetically speaking, it's to fix what people believe is quote a weak chin

• 48:58Speaker 00

  and to create a projected and defined jawline. Some people advocate for it on looks maxing forums, saying it's not as painful as people make it out to be, but also you can't chew soft food for like three to four weeks after the operation. Some people say it took them closer to two months to chew mashed potatoes. So it does seem like a very big trade-off. Other people are saying, go to an ortho, not gonna lie, I would beat the shit out of you. I don't know what, it's just like a picture of them and they're asking for advice. But when surgeries are tens of thousands of dollars to get it done safely, like, how else can you fix the problem that is the face that we are born with? Right, there are lots of predatory looks maxers out there that charge their fans courses,

• 49:41Speaker 00

  reminiscent of the pickup artist courses, Bitcoin crypto courses, finance courses, stock trading courses. They teach courses on how to mog, how to be hot. For ten to fifteen dollars a month, you can be a mogul and pay for Mogwarts, the school for looks maxing. Who on earth would pay for such a program? Two thousand people, two thousand people. Now, to the credit of Mogwarts, they do market themselves as a hate-free space for young men. So I would hope and imagine that they're not out here brutally ripping people apart for having facial asymmetry, but I don't know. What does admissions into the very legitimate school of Mogwarts looks like? There's going to be classes every week from influencers who cosplay as professors who will teach you to mog better, Q and As with professional moggers,

• 50:24Speaker 00

  AKA famous looks maxing looks maxers, PowerPoint presentations and guides on how to be the ultimate mogger and guides on how to get a razor-sharp jawline that you can use to cut open the next admissions letter you get from your mogul friends. The founder of Mogwarts states, it's completely delusional to think that young men are going to go on social media, see these high-value, attractive people with money and all these sorts of things and not get insecure. It is innate, it's going to happen. So I'd rather be the one influencer who, instead of making people feel like this sort of insecurities, instead I'll guide them towards the sort of thing that they can change by charging them.

• 51:04Speaker 00

  This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. World's Mental Health Day is a reminder that your mental health is just as important as your physical health. In addition to reminding you that your mental health is also important 364 days out of the year as well. And for some people, therapy can be one way to support their mental wellbeing. Remember, therapy isn't just for the big life choices either. It can just be a place to talk about relationships and problems and work issues, or simply like the sense that something feels off. With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy platforms, having served millions of people globally. BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. Plus, BetterHelp makes it easy to fit therapy into your routine with flexible ways to connect that work for different schedules and lifestyles.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Your mental health doesn't need a special occasion or anyone else's permission to matter. BetterHelp can connect you with a therapist who gets you, so you can make space for what matters to you. Visit betterhelp.com/rotten to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash rotten. You don't need a finance degree to do the right thing with your money. Acorns has your back. Acorns is the financial wellness app that makes it easy to grow your money and build towards your future automatically. Just choose an amount, set a schedule, and they'll automatically save and invest your money for you. Sign up now and join over 14 million people already investing with Acorns. New customers get a $20 bonus investment just for signing up. Takes about two minutes and could be the quickest $20 you'll ever earn. Head to acorns.com/rotten.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  That's A C O R N S dot com slash rotten to claim your $20 bonus today. Acorns.com/rotten. Limited time offer, terms and conditions apply. See acorns.com/terms for details. Paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier two compensation provided. Potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts, age, and investment settings. Does not include Acorns fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results may vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/rotten. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive, save hundreds.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  Because switching your home and auto insurance is better than cutting down on the things you love. Like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day? So, switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states. But this is also the same guy that gives very spectacular dating advice, where he has said, "If you're dating a girl who has told you that she has a celebrity crush, it's over." Quote, "She's disrespected you by mentioning the celebrity in front of you. If a girl truly likes you, she won't even think about any other guy.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  Drop her, she's immature." And I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of these looks maxers, all their ex-girlfriend celebrity crushes were Michael B. Jordan. Because I feel like that's the only reason that they're shitting on Michael B. Jordan all the time. For no reason, just shots fired at Michael B. Jordan.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  It's a common thing?

• 54:19Speaker 00

  Yeah. I'm like, hello? I've never taken a course at Hogwarts, so I'm not sure how much, if at all predatory the course can be. But there are looks maxers out here just encouraging people to do at-home injections of Aquelix, which is a fat dissolving injection. They want you to do it straight to the face. It is not FDA-approved in the US, not that the FDA has been doing much recently, but in the UK, you could potentially get a prescription for it, but it's... This is, I mean, hardly the only substance or injection looks maxers talk about doing to their very impressionable, sometimes very desperate, audience who just want to fit in. There's also steroid maxing, testosterone maxing.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  They have this other weird, like, pre-GAB. They encourage taking benzodiazepines or different forms of that so that you can be not so nervous when you talk to members of the opposite girls. When you talk to girls. Yeah. Also, if it were just a bubble where guys are just trying to look hotter and not go through just these really extreme measures, it's probably still not great. But again, these forums have so much hatred against women. They write things like on the forums, "Land whales and deformed girls will still have access to 100 times more intimate relations than any average-looking men." The bane of their existence is what they call hypergamy.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  Well, it's like a real concept, but I don't know if it's proven to be at all, other than one random generic study that isn't even well-done. But it's this concept, this ideology that they have, that women, 80% of women, date the top 20% of men. And they don't care to date the other bottom 80%.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 56:03Speaker 00

  So it's basically saying, "All women always date above their look and socioeconomic status." Which I do think that there's a lot more studies recently that show that is not the case. In fact, the opposite is true, where I believe, at least in the US, more often than not, women will marry men who are less educated than them on paper. So, I don't really know where they're getting this from, but they write, "Land whales and deformed girls will still have access to 100 times more intimate relations than any average-looking man, as men have become literal low self-esteem social roaches, ready to do anything for some fat, pre-owned, stinky-smelling pee. The only thing that will determine how long your very good-looking chick is going to stay with you is the amount of money you have or how good your bedroom game is.

• 56:47Speaker 00

  That is the ultimate straight-relationship black pill." It continues to say that you need to practice being the last one in the race. In fact, don't even finish the race, okay? So, he's like trying to teach you how to be manipulative? So he's like, "You need to learn not to arrive at the destination during intimate relations." And he says this is so serious, because that's how he operates, and he gets a lot of girls insecure and desperate for him, because the first time you meet a girl and have intimate relations, she should be exhausted, and if you don't finish the race, it will, quote, "psychologically trick her into thinking she's not good enough for you." And then he says, "Right after that, you want to stop texting her. Be cold to her, so that she feels like something's wrong with her."

• 57:32Speaker 00

  And he says, quote, "By doing that, she'll literally be on a leash and come begging me to fuck her, and in addition, she'll try her best to make me finish the race." You know, what "finish the race" is. What? He also writes, "We've all seen a really hot girl go out and marry an average or deformed guy that isn't rich or famous." So like, you know, this is the one time where the wall has been broken. He's like, "A hot girl marries a guy not hot and not rich." What does that mean? Oh my God, could it be that girls just really care about personality as well? No. The only explanation is that he successfully kept her thanks to his intimate game, his sex game, his banana game. That's what he says, you know? Like, what's happening?

• 58:17Speaker 00

  When you take your partner in crime, you need to... This is his, um...

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Who is this?

• 58:21Speaker 00

  Some random dude on a looks maxer forum, and this is like one of the top posts that everyone's obsessed with. He said it's the ultimate guide. And so he said, "This is how you know if you have a good friend down there. You need to get it and slam it against a desk. It needs to sound like a fucking hammer. It needs to be metal-solid, zero flexibility. Anyway, in order to not finish the race, you need to do math in your head. Double the numbers, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64. Or if it gets really bad, think about your dead grandma. They call that mental maxing. Your mental maxing has to be strong." I swear, a lot of these rules and maxing guides are just written by a bunch of phonies. They say the only way to have a good intimate session is if she's begging you to stop pushing

• 59:03Speaker 00

  you away, crying, screaming, "The neighbors or the police come," because she sounds like she's getting butchered, and your condom breaks multiple times. Somebody call the cops and sue Trojan, because what's happening? How is that an indicator of a good time? That sounds like a crime. This is like more unrealistic. This is as realistic as my spicy romanticy books, where one of them is like a shadow daddy shapeshifter vampire werewolf who knots. Like, what even is this post? But then you have a bunch of guys commenting on the thread. Holy shit. Good post. Good post. Need to find a Foid to fuck first. Side note, Foid is incel shorthand for female humanoid. It's how incels refer to women. It's derogatory. It's dehumanizing.

• 59:48Speaker 00

  And very quickly indicates that they've never touched a woman before. But who am I to stop them from telling on themselves? One person comments, "All this work just to have some fat, ugly whore commit to you?" And again, I guess, I mean, maybe if there's just hookup culture where everyone's just trying to be hotter so that they can have the most amount of one night stands possible. I don't think there's anything wrong between consenting adults doing that. But it's also the fact that like, a lot of the looks maxers agree with the manosphere sentiment that um, body count is one of the most important things for a girl's value. Yeah. One manosphere fucking turd says, "I would like to have my partner be less experienced and more loyal so that her sexual compatibility is malleable to mine.

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  We get to mold our sexual partners to our liking and vice versa. Like we're some sort of Tamagotchi." I think that's a lot more possible when the partners haven't had stacked body counts to the sky. They also think that three body count is high, like atrociously high. They think even one, if it's not the one you're married to, is like atrociously high. There was actually a whole debate about it. Yeah, there was a whole debate on like, I mean, everywhere, but there was one Jubilee debate where Mark Manson, the self-help guru, was like, "What's the difference between having one person that you've had intimate relations with like a thousand times versus multiple partners that you've had multiple relationships with?" It's just weird, but they don't get it. Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  Also, this guy who said that he wants a woman to be malleable to his sexual preferences, not to enforce their idea of looks maxing. He is not easy on the eyes. It's just kind of strange, okay? It's just a lot of demands and it's just weird. And they also say things like, "This is clavicular, okay?" Clavicular said, quote, "No woman has a political ideology that she's going to stand by, right? Because they have no backbone. They have no spine with any of their opinions."

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 1:01:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. Which, speaking of clavicular, he has a looks maxing course that has over a thousand members and costs fifty dollars a month, which is a lot of money, yeah. He also makes about eighty to a hundred thousand dollars a month from streaming. And as I'm filming this, I decided to go check upon him on TikTok and he's starting his college tours. I don't know what that means. I think he's gonna go to college campuses and just like make an incel army. I don't know what's happening. But yeah, and in that promotion for the college course, he's like making out with this girl. And then her husband walks in and it's like, "Ha ha."

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  This is real?

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  I mean, I think that's, I guess it's a bit, but...

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  I see.

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  But like, for that to go around in college is kind of crazy.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Speaker 00

  It's very weird. Like, I don't know what the message...

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  What is his lore? What does he do exactly?

• 1:02:36Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Are you gonna talk about him later?

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  No, I'm, uh, right now, okay? Clavicular is a very interesting individual that I came across as of more recently. And I actually, the stuff that was showing up on my TikTok algorithm about clavicular, the girlies were getting into clavicular, including me. I was like, "Oh, wait." This one clip I saw of him was actually kind of enduring. I don't know anything about clavicular. And then I started the research for this case and I was like, "Oh, I take back any sentiment I had of that." Because it's, it's bad. So the first thing that I found out about him, other than like he had this collab with Woviki, we're gonna talk about it in a second, but was that he spends just like a lot of money on peptides and drugs and enhancements every single month. I don't even know if he's breaking even at this point with how much he's making.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  He said that he approximately spends like fifty to eighty thousand dollars a year on peptides. Yeah.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  What exactly is the difference between peptides and drugs?

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  I think, I mean, peptides is a amino acid that's like created by protein. I don't know. I think GLP-1s are peptides. I think peptides help with lots of medical issues that people actually need. But then now people are peptide maxing. It's kind of giving a more extreme version of sauna and cold plunge. So there's like, there's a lot of overlaps with clavicular because he is the most presentable mainstream face for looks maxing. And if you go down one of the alleyways, you're gonna get a very different side of clavicular because of your algorithm. So for example, I would say that my algorithm is not, but would be more in favor of like Woviki. So like all the Woviki stuff came out because the live stream was going viral.

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  And then I started getting pushed his longevity overlap. So like doctors are interviewing him, but he's not a longevity guy, but like maybe that. And then you actually get like the red pill overlap where he's just shitting on women. So there's just like lots of weird. And then you have the lol cow overlap, which is just him saying dumb stuff to get viral. But he has a huge digital footprint that he has tried to erase a good chunk of it. But he, growing up, was self-identified. I don't know if he was diagnosed. He says that he grew up with, that he has autism, that he's awkward. He had all of these, he was actually very active on these forums, these look-ism forums. Yeah, he said that he would try to say as little words as possible on a daily basis.

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  He would wake up early so that he didn't have to run into people, including his parents, before he went to school. I think beginning clavicular was more relatable. He talks about how it's hard to talk to anybody without being on some sort of benzodiazepine. He just seems like a really uncomfortable guy who faced some rejection that maybe because he's not neurotypical, does not interpret social cues that well, and that has caused tension in his life and feels a lot of social anxiety. And that is something that I think a lot of people can relate to. He says that he started working as a bouncer at a club after high school. And he said, quote, "I was noticing who was going home with the pretty girls every night. And I noticed it was really only about one to two percent of men. So it was people who were very tall, people who were very good-looking,

• 1:05:46Speaker 00

  something I was noticing over my formative years when I was a teenager growing up." So making these observations, kind of seeing that sometimes good-looking people would be able to go up to women and start making out with them without saying anything, I kind of started to shift my worldview a little bit and realized, "This is the most important metric and I have to go all in." And he says that he purchased testosterone online when he was fourteen, so like illegal testosterone, and he's been taking testosterone since. He also talks about, like, testosterone is like a huge thing. This is where I would say like the wellness, longevity, manosphere slightly overlap and like all of that. But fourteen is crazy and he wasn't getting it from a doctor. He also does, the one thing about clavicular that I will give him is he does talk about all the downsides.

• 1:06:31Speaker 00

  So he just straight up tells everyone he cannot have kids because his body does not create testosterone on his own. He can't have kids. He says that he can do some sort of therapy later if he decides to stop taking testosterone and have kids. I don't know how accurate that is, but I will give it to him. He is very open about all the consequences of the things that he does. So he's not trying to make it seem like it's a walk in the park. He's known for a lot of other things, one of them being that his mom had to take away his hammer when he was a teenager because he kept doing what he... It's referred now in the large scheme of things as bone smashing, which is where you repeatedly tap your face with a hammer to change your face shape because you're creating all these like micro fractures.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Is it true? Like, is it like a real thing, safe thing?

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  No. So every doctor has come out and been like, "You're just..." Like you could paralyze your face, you could also hit a nerve. You're also likely not going to get symmetrical results. So you're just like swollen and red and inflaming your face and probably doing more harm than good. But he said that he would bone smash ever since he was a teenager. And then now when you look pictures of him, he's like twenty, he looks thirty. But, I mean, he looks chiseled, but everyone's like, "How much of that is just his genetics?" There's a clip of him even using a massage gun to his face, jamming it in his face, which again, you really should not do a massage gun for sure. He's also said things about Sydney Sweeney, okay?

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  And like, not a lot of people are Sydney Sweeney fans, however, he says, "I think she's pretty malformed. Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed. She's got the Eyes of Doom with no infra orbital support. She's really not that much of a looker in her face. I think that a lot of people with porn brains find her attractive because of her body." In other podcasts, there are, like, he'll go on the Fresh and Fit podcast where he's sitting across from other women and he's just like rating their looks or rather listing out a bunch of random things that he thinks are wrong about their face, stating her mid-face is way too long, obviously she's got the jowls coming in, horrible nasolabial folds, horrible total facial, facial with the height ratio,

• 1:08:41Speaker 00

  just really bad age indicators, but obviously at thirty, that's not something that's really going to surprise me. Her inner maxilla is super recessed, horrible, and it's like, you know, her eyes are sunken in. Then the next person, he's like really recessed chin. He's just doing, he's just doing a lot. And like, what do you expect from the guy? He used to apparently make anonymous Instagram accounts when he was in high school and college and take creepy candid photos of girls in his class in town, post them on Instagram and brutally rate their looks in the caption. And I think the part that really annoys me is, like, in the forums, it's definitely a lot of self-hatred that is transferred to other guys in the looks maxing community and ultimately to women. But when you see these famous looks maxers and they're rating people online,

• 1:09:24Speaker 00

  for example, that's what he said about Sydney Sweeney, but fine, she's a public figure, whatever. But then you'll have him rate random girls at a club and just be so rude, so degrading and like, nobody asked you, like, "Why are you doing this?" And it's like getting off on the girls being humiliated. And then he'll see another famous live streamer, you know, that is not conventionally attractive. And he'll be so soft and gentle with how he rates the guy's looks. It's just very like circle jerk. Yeah, he calls lots of women chagladites, which I guess stands for like a cave dweller, basically a feral human in the essence of what he's trying to say.

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  He also even admits, he self-admits, you know, "I was always a peak hater. I was like incel, incel." Yeah. However, I guess if there's anything to get behind clavicular on is when he rips into politicians. But like, the way he does it is also bizarre. He says, "I mean, this next election cycle, who's going to win? It's gonna be Gavin Newsom against JD Vance and because JD Vance is subhuman and Gavin Newsom mogs, he's gonna win." The person interviewing him asks him, "JD Vance is subhuman? Like, what makes you say that?" And also, the person interviewing him is like a super alt-right podcaster. So they're all like trying to get him into the alt-right line, okay? And then he's like, he's got a very short total, you know, facial width to height ratio. He's obese, very recessed side profile, whereas Newsom is like a six-three Chad.

• 1:10:49Speaker 00

  He also states that he disagrees with Newsom's politics, so he's like very MAGA. But he is going to vote for Democrat Newsom because he mogs.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  What is this world?

• 1:11:02Speaker 00

  Like, I can't tell. I really cannot decide if this is funny, or if this is like catastrophic foreshadowing for the future of humanity in our country, where we're just voting for like the hottest moggers.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Wow, I mean, he's on brand, I guess.

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's saying that sarcastically, by the way. But he also says it's just embarrassing for the president of the country to be fat. He says, how are you fat and you expect to lead a country? You can't even be in shape. But he's also very seemingly supportive of the Trump administration, which is not. I don't know if any of these people are like symbolic of health and fitness, but I mean, they're all old as well, but I don't know. I don't know. He also says in stream, my grandma texted me today and she was like, stop making fun of J D Vance. And I was like, oh, my God, bro, I'm not gonna do that. He's fat and he's ugly. No, thank you, grandma. And for someone who is so heavily on the right, he says some weird things. He has this one video that has gone semi-viral in. I mean, I didn't see it up until the research of this video.

• 1:11:57Speaker 00

  So I guess in very specific circulating groups. But he says, would Charlie Kirk have gotten assassinated if he were a Chad? Probably not. Here's why. Good-looking people experience something called the halo effect. So it's quite possible that if Charlie were to be better looking, someone wouldn't have hated him enough to assassinate him. So I don't really know. He's like, he hangs out a lot with the alt-right people, like Nick Fuentes. Really likes Nick Fuentes. Um, yeah, Nick Fuentes, he said he would vote for Nick Fuentes if he runs for president. He hangs out with the Tate brothers. He hangs out with all those types of people. Um, so he is very aligned with the alt-right pipeline and the manosphere.

• 1:12:41Speaker 00

  However, it's confusing because he's also like shitting on them at the same time. So it doesn't make any sense. It's just weird. I think he just goes for whatever is lucrative. That's why it makes zero sense. He's also said things like, I hate politics. So whoever wants to give me the fattest bag, let's be real. And he said, I'll go each and every way, brother.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  So do, what do all the look maxers, like forums or people think about him? Since he's like the poster child now. Do, do they approve of him? Do they think he's the Giga Chad or is that the energy or?

• 1:13:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think they all like him, except I don't know if they think he's a Giga Chad. There's some more smaller, we're gonna talk about him next. Mason Hull, otherwise known as Hulo, the one from the beginning of this story. I think a lot of people think he's more representative of an aesthetic Chad.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:13:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, from what I could see. I mean, what do you expect from clavicular, clavicle, clav? I just don't know how much his brain can handle after he's loaded up with every substance under the sun. It seems, he also like livestreamed his friend putting him in a chokehold. And then when he was released from the chokehold, he went limp and started convulsing on the ground. He also seemingly overdosed during a livestream. He was slurring his speech on live. There's videos of him being carried out of the bar and taken to a hospital. And when I say carried, it's not just like a security guy supporting his weight. He's fully being carried by two dudes down the stairs.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  What, wasn't he in court for something recently?

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  Yes, he was in court multiple times for different charges and he got mugged by the judge. We're gonna get into that all in part two. This is going to be the first half of the audio podcast. In the second half, we're gonna go down clavicular's lore because it's really impossible. I tried to keep this episode just on Mason Hull and looks maxing because I thought the looks maxing was very important to the charges that he has against him and like the fan base that he has supporting him even after his charges were revealed. And after the video with J D on, we're gonna get into it. But it's impossible to talk about looks maxing without talking about clavicular. So with that being said, stay tuned for the second part of the audio podcast and I will see you in that one.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  A perfect crime film, says the Daily Beast. John Turturro gives a career best performance. Sony Pictures Classics proudly presents the acclaimed new thriller, The Only Living Pickpocket in New York. Turturro stars as an aging master pickpocket whose latest score puts him in the crosshairs of a ruthless crime family. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslany, Will Price and Steve Buscemi. See the film that the L A Times calls instantly classic. Opens October 23rd in New York and Los Angeles, nationwide, October 30th.

• 1:15:35Speaker 00

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus. Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom. Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola. This small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface. Watch the Hulu original series Phony. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.