The $1.7 Trillion Data Center Bet, and Why Apple is Getting Into the Subscription Game

Scott Galloway breaks down the borrowed money behind the AI buildout, how Apple turned the iPhone into a monthly bill, and how to angle for your boss's job. Want to be featured in a future episode? Send a voice recording to [email protected], or drop your question in the r/ScottGalloway subreddit. Plus, you can now call or text Scott a question at our new Office Hours hotline: ‪(201) 472-3656‬. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Scott Galloway?

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• 1:45Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Office Hours with Prop G. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech entrepreneurship and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected] or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit and we just might feature in our next episode. Question number one comes from a listener who emailed us. Hi Scott, I'm an ex UK Army engineer officer working on grid upgrades in the Scottish Highlands. Hmm, your No Mercy No Malice episode 1999.ai has led me to believe that the push on data center construction is ill advised and will end up with data center developers holding the crying baby with incomplete sites and sunk costs. There's also the question of realistic capacity in the grid

• 2:30Scott Galloway?

  and the demand from new building, housing and other sectors. Is the model of speculative build of data centers for hyperscalers destined to fall down? Thanks as always for speaking out, swearing and drinking. Well, I won't stop that. Your ancestral home is proud to call you a jock. Huh. Well, you oatmeal savage. That's what my father used to call me when he was joking. Some data, most announced data centers were never real. To build a data center developer applies to plug into the power grid and operators get five to 10 times more applications than real buildings because they file a whole pile to hedge. Most have no financing, no power deal and no equipment order.

• 3:11Scott Galloway?

  And some, most or most planned data centers are press releases. Bloomberg expects a third to half of all US data centers planned for 2026 to be delayed or canceled. Why people seem, the latest scare around AI is the debt. Wall Street's mood has flipped fast and Bank of America's investor survey 45%. Now I'll call the AI bubble the biggest risk, up from 28% a month earlier. The build out runs on borrowed money right now. And one estimate puts the giant's hidden debt at 1.7 trillion. That's up eightfold in four years. The scary part is what's not on plain sight here and that is 800 plus billion is pushed off the books into shell companies. So it's hard to see who's going to eat the losses.

• 3:54Scott Galloway?

  Plus this debt is backed by chips that can lose value overnight if a better one emerges. A lot of people are equating this to 1999 and there's real parallels here. Ordinary people, in my view, will be the ones left holding the bat. I think there's going to be an AI slash data center bailout from Trump, who's got the entire economy on AIs or the valuations of AI to continue to be out over their skis. In many states, utilities are guaranteed a profit for building power plants. So if the demand never shows, it lands on everyone's power bill. The financing is circular. Nvidia sells the chips and lends its customers the money to buy them. And so the same dollars keep flowing in between a handful of companies making demand look bigger, artificially bigger than it is.

• 4:36Scott Galloway?

  In some, the end here or the slowdown isn't likely one dramatic bang. It's kind of a slow rolling thud, similar to 2002 where the weakest, most borrowed players fall first while big tech survives. So this listener, you're right about the crying baby and who'll end up holding sort of the over leveraged developers and the rate pairs, not the hyperscalers. But my understanding is you're working on grid upgrades in the Scottish Highlands. I think it's interesting to be in the center here and a specter. I would argue as it relates to your job, I still think the demand is going to be pretty substantial

• 5:17Scott Galloway?

  and that your skills are going to be in pretty high demand for a while. In other words, the technology and I do think the data centers will survive. I just don't know what the valuations will be or who pays off the debt to finance these things. But as it relates to what you're doing, I think you're in a pretty good spot right now. One, working in the Scottish Highlands, I mean, I have an ability to romanticize Scotland. So I think it's the most beautiful place in the world. So to be there, and I don't know if you're working outdoors or probably not. I know to have any skills around adjacent to data centers right now is a pretty good rap, probably for a few years.

• 5:59Scott Galloway?

  I just don't think these things are gonna, I don't, I don't think we're going to stop building data centers. I just wonder if the people financing this type of growth are going to scale back or their debt is going to come under pressure. But brother, to be working in the Highlands and have skills around what is at the center of AI and that is the data center build out. I still think there's going to be enough demand to justify the centers that do get approved, if you will. Anyways, very much appreciate the question and congrats on your geography and your profession.

• 6:40Scott Galloway?

  Question number two comes from Jacob. Hi Scott, what do you think about Apple's move to a subscription based model? To me, the subscription model not only means more reliable revenue for the company, but it is also stickier. When consumers get on the plan, they'll likely be contentious to keep receiving new iPhones, regardless of the fact that the only substantial upgrade year over year is a better camera. Apple knows they are done innovating in that space and they want to get, lock in customers now. I'm curious about your thoughts. Yeah, I think we're in a violent agreement on this one. So on July 28th, Apple launched an Apple upgrade in the US. The program will let customers pay a monthly fee for an Apple product, then upgrade to the newest model, return the device or buy it outright when the lease ends. Leases start at $18 a month for an iPhone. This is likely a reaction to a slowing upgrades cycle.

• 7:25Scott Galloway?

  The average global smartphone replacement cycle is expected to stretch to four years in 2026, up from three and a half years in 2025. And some, the improvements have become incremental. And I think people have decided they don't need the latest and greatest right when it comes out. Apple's subscription business is working. Apple's services business, which includes subscriptions, the App Store, iCloud and Apple Care, brought in over $30 billion last quarter. We think of Apple as being a transactional company, but at $30 billion a quarter, $120 billion a year, it's got to be one of the five or 10 largest subscription companies in the world. That's up 12%. Apple has now more than one and a half billion paid subscriptions across its platforms. Services carry an estimated 77% gross margin versus 39% for hardware,

• 8:08Scott Galloway?

  meaning a service dollar is roughly twice as profitable as the iPhone dollar. The services segment lifted Apple's overall gross margins to 49%. And some, Apple is converting an unpredictable four-figure purchase into a predictable monthly payment that keeps customers inside its ecosystem. Like, so let's bring this back to me. I started a company called Profit Brand Strategy my second year in business school, where basically I was running my brain to old white guys who are CEOs and CMOs and helping them make decisions. And I would charge Williams-Sonoma half a million dollars to do their internet strategy or Levi Strauss and Company, you know, a million bucks over two years to figure out their direct to consumer strategy, including owned and operated stores. And about halfway through the engagement, most of my effort and brainpower would be focused

• 8:52Scott Galloway?

  on inventing new problems that only me and my team could answer. And I sold profit when it was doing 10 million in revenue for 28 million or 2.8x revenues. I essentially started the equivalent of profit again when I was teaching at business school in 2009. That was L2 where we collect data. But instead of a transactional model, I wanted, quite frankly, I wanted a larger exit. And I read this amazing study from Deloitte saying, these are where the irrational multiples, the features that a company that's able to garner irrational multiple have in common. One, they own a niche. Two, they're international. Three, they have defensible IP. And four, they have recurring revenues. And that's why software

• 9:34Scott Galloway?

  companies, when you have recurring revenues, someone signs up, it's a harder sales process, but they sign up. And people think recurring revenue is exploiting a flaw in the species, right? So I sign up for Equinox at 250 bucks a month. And I, well, I work out three, four times a week, three times a week, 12 divided into 20 bucks a workout. Okay, I'm never in Soho. I work out there two or three times a year. So I am paying $1,000 a workout. If they charge me $1,000 every time I walked into Equinox, regardless of how hot the people are there, and how convenient it is, and how nice the environment is to work out, I would not pay 1,000 bucks. But because we have a problem, understanding how fast time is

• 10:17Scott Galloway?

  going to go as a species, we're willing to sign up for something, what, X dollars per month? That's not a lot. And I'm gonna, I'll use it at least this much. In addition, the organization itself can better plan its CapEx because it knows what its incoming revenues are going to be. So subscription model is stickier. It also forces you to focus more of your revenues, not on getting more people into the store, but on the customer relationship on renewal. So you're, instead of investing more money and getting more people into the store, you're investing more money on the relationship itself and how to improve it, which typically creates kind of a better, a better product, if you will. So on average, retailers trade at one to three times revenues, and recurring revenue companies trade at six

• 11:00Scott Galloway?

  to eight times revenue. So cut to, I also sold L2 when I was doing about, oh, I was doing about 20 million revenues, and I sold it for 160 million or eight times revenues. So recurring revenue, the, you know, word is out, the recurring revenue works. There's probably been an overinvestment in subscription revenues. And it's getting harder and harder because people benchmark against Netflix, which gives you a billion dollars in content for every dollar a month you spend. So as is the reason why it's so hard to build a subscription Substack offering. Anyways, Apple has been great at this. And they have said, okay. And I'm not exaggerating. I suggested this to Apple, maybe three years ago. I said, okay, pretty easy to identify amongst the billion people that have iOS, find the 50

• 11:45Scott Galloway?

  million super users, myself included, that want the latest, greatest, all the time, fairly price insensitive, and just say, we're going to give you every new product 30 days before anybody else. We're going to charge you 100, 200, 300 bucks a month. And the market's just gonna love it, absolutely love it. And the first thing I ask when I'm talking to a board is, how do you figure out a way to move some of your business to subscription revenue? It doesn't have to be all subscription revenue. But if you launch a subscription revenue component of your business, and it's growing faster than the core business, the market will start to reward you with multiple expansions. So it'll say, okay, recurring revenues, eight times, transactional revenues, two times. But if the recurring revenue part

• 12:30Scott Galloway?

  of your business is growing faster than the transactional revenue, your overall enterprise value will start to expand. In addition, it's just, you start investing more in the customer relationship. I just presented to the CEO and the management, senior management team of Mercedes Benz. And they asked me, you know, what would you do if you were us? And I said, simple. I like Mercedes. They should be able to identify, the best car I've ever owned is a Mercedes truck. When I had kids, I bought, I think it was a GL. It drives like a sports car, but you can have dogs and kids in it. It's just an outstanding car. It feels good. It's aspirational without being flashy. Anyways, love the car. And I realize, let me do my land acknowledgement. I realize most people are not privileged

• 13:12Scott Galloway?

  enough to have Mercedes. But at some point, a car company just needs to take me off the table and just say, you know, James Purse, or Buck Mason, or, what's another brand I like, or Rag and Bone. Scott, you're the Rag and Bone, Rag, you're part of the Boneheads, and we're just going to send you the clothes you want, subscription service. We know you better than you know you. AB and Bev, I love beer. There's certain, Scott, we're taking you off the table. And we're, we're going to send you beer. We understand your calendar, wherever you are, your favorite brands, and we're going to occasionally give you access to some sort of cool event that, you know, because we sponsor every world-class sport.

• 13:56Scott Galloway?

  There's just so much opportunity for subscription. We take the people off the table. Why? Because what does subscription do? It alleviates one of the, or it directly attacks one of the greatest myths in business. And that is, choice is a feature. No, it's not. It's a bug. People don't want more choice. They want to be more confident in the choices presented. And subscription says, here's a brand, and then a thin layer of AI innovation that says, we know what you want before. When I go to a restaurant, I don't order. I ask my son or my partner to order for me. I don't want choice. One of the things I love about, Lancher Co, this genius restaurant, that basically there's no choice. You get steak, you get french fries, and then I think you get profiterals. Boom. I don't have to think about it. And subscription revenue sort of does that for you, if you will. And it says, okay, you're

• 14:41Scott Galloway?

  done. You don't have to pick anything. You've signed up, you've paid, and it reduces the calorie expenditure around decisions. Apple's move into subscription has created, I think, a massive amount of shareholder value. Apple, right now, I think trades at a PE of, I think it's 33 or 43. But the bottom line, it's valued as if it's a growth company. And it's I think the top line, one of the largest companies in the world, maybe the exception of Walmart and a couple others. Because it's growing its subscription revenue faster than its core business. Also, it's, I think it just posted 16% growth on the iPhone, which is staggering. But a decent question, where does this all reverse engineer to? Apple

• 15:26Scott Galloway?

  converting unpredictable transactions into predictable subscription revenue is a gangster move. It's only getting started. I still haven't gotten a subscription plan from Apple. Apple, take me, I'm yours. Do what you will with me. Take my money. Sign me up for a monthly program that gives me some sort of self-expressive benefit or access to new programs, or figuring out that I lose my iPods every two months, that they're going to replace them every three months, whatever it is, right? And I think this is, I think they're just getting started, if you will. And also, just from a personal standpoint, if you're thinking about a business, ask yourself constantly, what can we do to escape the transactional business model hell and move into a recurring revenue model? If you're

• 16:08Scott Galloway?

  a company that sells bikes, is there a bike club where they can, they don't, you know, whenever they want, they have, when they're in town, we'll deliver a brand new Trek bike to you, and we'll invite you on cool bike tours, maybe even, and we'll always have, maintain your bikes. Granted, that's going after a wealthy class, but I think there's a lot of people out there. But if they can just show, if a, if a chain of bicycle stores can just show that their recurring revenue is growing faster than their transactional revenue, it takes the multiple on that business up two or three. And then they get focused on the consumer, you know, relationship, if you will. So I'm a norm, I've been preaching, I've been preaching subscription, the move to subscription revenues for a decade now.

• 16:50Scott Galloway?

  And probably the gangster move that doesn't get enough credit is Adobe used to sell something called Director's Cutter, a $2,500 software in the box. And then they said, no, we're going to $25 a month. Their stock got cut in half, and now it's up like 40x because they, they were sort of the original gangsters here of moving to a subscription model. So Apple, who I think is arguably strategically, one of the smartest companies in the history of business, who's not, who's not engaging in the AI price, you know, CapEx wars right now? Apple, they're like, no, we'll just hang back, and then we'll monetize and let everyone else spend hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars, similar to what they did with Certa. So do you guys battle it out? And then we'll, we'll extract a $20 billion

• 17:32Scott Galloway?

  licensing payment such that Alphabet can have Google be the default for the billion wealthiest people on the planet. Pulling the plug on the car. Good CEOs not only decide what to do, but what not to. Think about the shitposting Tim Cook has received for not developing, you know, not launching new products. Well, actually, they have Apple Music, Apple TV+ and it all feeds into the ecosystem of subscription. Anyways, Apple's done a great job. What's the lesson to take away from here? Always ask yourself in business, what part of our business could we move to recurring revenue? Thanks for the question. We'll be right back after a quick break.

• 18:18Scott Galloway?

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• 19:03Scott Galloway?

  Over 16,000 fast-growing companies like Ramp, Ryder, and Harvey save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. Learn more at vanta.com/profg and get $1,000 off. That's spelled V-A-N-T-A dot com slash prof G for $1,000 off. Today's show is brought to you by Vanguard. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value in fixed income is not easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real, lots of firms throw a couple flashy funds your way and call it a day. But not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. This isn't just a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top-grade products across the board.

• 19:48Scott Galloway?

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• 20:30Scott Galloway?

  Vanguard Marketing Corporation, distributor. Support for the show comes from Upwork. One of the most valuable traits any business can have is flexibility. Circumstances change, your business needs to be able to adapt. Upwork gives your business fast access to highly skilled specialists with deep expertise without committing to full-time headcount. Upwork is a one-stop platform to find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. That means you can find talent and start filling those skill gaps, launch projects faster, and scale support up or down as you need it. It's time to hire confidently while sticking to your timeline. Upwork also has Business Plus, which lets you access the top 1% of talent on Upwork. With AI-powered shortlisting, you'll get matched to the right freelancer in under six hours.

• 21:13Scott Galloway?

  Upwork can also take care of operational stuff, including contracts and payments, so you don't have to worry about it. With over 170,000 freelancers holding five-star ratings, you can hire with confidence. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork.com. Welcome back. Question number three comes from a listener who texted us. Hi, Prof G, I have a career question. I recently stepped into a general manager role. I've been with my current company for about a year after being recruited by a leader who believes in developing high-potential talent. That leader is now being considered for a VP role, which could create an opportunity

• 21:57Scott Galloway?

  for me to step into his position. Given that I am still relatively new to the organization, how would you think about balancing ambition with patience? More specifically, how do you position yourself as a credible successor while staying focused on helping your leader succeed and earning the trust of the broader organization? That's a big question. Look, the adage is true. If you want to be promoted, just kind of start doing that job, and that is demonstrate every day that you're ready for that job. And, you know, the basics, try and be a good team member, try and highlight and credit other people. But I don't think there's anything wrong with sitting around with the HR manager, sitting down with the HR manager, the person, or your boss and saying, "Look, I think I'm ready for that job. I hope you'll consider me when you're thinking about the next person," or the person that's going to fill that role.

• 22:42Scott Galloway?

  And then, to the extent you can, start kind of fulfilling that role. Start, you know, the best way to get a job is to do the job. But I think transparency, and if you get passed over for it, you know, be honest. Yeah, I'm disappointed, but I understand you have to make these decisions. There is something to the power of patience, and that is, the American corporation is probably the greatest economic elevator in history. But the thing about a corporation is you get rich slowly. And by the way, it's just awesome to get rich, so that's not bad. But one of the things I can guarantee you in a corporation is a series of injustices.

• 23:25Scott Galloway?

  There will be people who get promoted over you that you believe are less talented. You will have things happen in the company that make no sense, that just come from a directive from someone you haven't even met before. But if you're patient and mature enough to kind of handle these small injustices and be patient and a good citizen, over time, if you're good and a good colleague and a good team member, things work out. And I think some ambitious, talented people sometimes don't. I didn't have that patience. I was at Morgan Stanley, and it just bothered me if I perceived people senior to me were not as intelligent as me. And the reality is they're probably more intelligent, they're just more mature. And I just didn't have the patience or the maturity.

• 24:08Scott Galloway?

  So, I would, you know, keep in mind that you're going to have injustices, but over the medium and the long haul, most organizations with good people reward competence and patience and ambition. So, yeah, there's a fine line between patience and ambition, but I would be transparent with your direct boss and the head of HR or the manager who's making this decision. Say, "I think I'm ready," and just start doing the job or doing components of the job to demonstrate that you're ready for it. And there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, as long as it doesn't come at the cost of supporting your colleagues and talking them up and giving them credit where it's due. And if you don't get it, be as gracious as possible.

• 24:50Scott Galloway?

  Congratulations the person that did get it, and ask how you can be helpful. And quite frankly, just do what I didn't do, and that is be an adult and just act more mature. Anyways, appreciate the question, and it sounds like you're doing really well. Congratulations. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected], or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we might feature it in an upcoming episode. This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Janer. Kami Rieck is our social producer, Brad Williams is our editor, and Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from Prop G Media.