#936 Abubakar Nur Khalil On Bringing Bitcoin Development To Africa

Abubakar Nur Khalil is the CEO & CTO at Recursive Capital In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin development, adoption of Bitcoin in African nations, and funding infrastructure to help get Bitcoin into the hands of the people who need it the most around the world. I also talk to Abubakar about sitting on the board of the Bitcoin Trust alongside Jack Dorsey. ======================= Brave Wallet is the first secure crypto wallet built natively in a web3 crypto browser. No extension required. Store, manage, and grow your portfolio, get NFT & multi-chain support, and more. Download the Brave privacy browser at brave.com/Pomp, and click the wallet icon to get started. ======================= The Pomp Podcast is powered by BetOnline.ag, the world's largest sports betting, casino, poker and horse racing website that accepts cryptocurrency for wagering. BetOnline.ag gives you the ability to use Bitcoin and more than a dozen altcoins to make deposits and withdraw your winnings. There are no crypto transaction fees, and processing is instantaneous and secure. Visit https://promotions.betonline.ag/pomp and use PROMO CODE: POMP100 to receive a 100% matching bonus on any crypto deposit. BetOnline.ag is available in nearly every country around the world, making it the top global gaming destination for crypto users. ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Abu Bakar Noor Khalil is the CEO and CTO at Recursive Capital. In this conversation, we talk about recursive, we talk about Bitcoin development, we talk about the adoption of Bitcoin in African nations, and we talk about funding all sorts of different infrastructure to help get Bitcoin in the hands of people who need it most globally. I also talked to Abu Bakar about sitting on the board of the Bitcoin Trust alongside Jack Dorsey and others. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope that you enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I first want to talk about our sponsors.

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:54Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:19Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:43Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, here we go. We've got Abu Bakar, who is the CEO of Recursive Capital and also sits on the board of the Bitcoin Trust. I'm super excited about this. Hello, sir. How are you?

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Hi guys, I'm doing great.

• 4:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing. I'm so excited to talk to you. I feel like you have a unique insight into a place in the world of various countries across Africa that are at the forefront of Bitcoin adoption, not only from what we're actually seeing in terms of where it's being used and adopted, but also the importance of Bitcoin, right? Here in the United States, there's a lot of people who are like, oh yeah, Bitcoin's cool. It's one of a lot of different, you know, investment assets that I have, and maybe it's going to go up in price, maybe it won't. But there's a lot of folks, my understanding, across Africa, who this is a lifeline. This is incredibly important. And so, maybe let's just start with, like, when you think about, kind of, all of the work you've done, all of the data and information

• 4:42Anthony Pompliano?

  that you've gathered over the last few years, like, what is the importance of Bitcoin to various African nations?

• 4:50Speaker 02

  That's definitely a great one. So, historically, going back to, you know, the early days of when Bitcoin came into the continent, a lot of it was speculation, as you would expect. A lot of people got into Bitcoin hot, thinking, you know, there'll be millennials overnight. That resulted in a lot of scams coming into the continent, which was really bad for the PR Bitcoin overall. But then, over the years, what we started seeing, especially with regards to younger generations, is they're now noticing that Bitcoin is more than just this speculative asset, or like, this number go of technology. And there's the, there's, there's a lot more to it, specifically from the angle of a superior monetary network. And one of the major things, or major benefits, that they do see really early on is, first of all, via the integration of the Lightning Network, which is, you know, through Bitnow, for example, is, a lot of people are starting to see that you can actually use Bitcoin on a day-to-day, both in terms of remittance, as well as local commerce, which is unheard of in terms of using local currencies, number one.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  They, these currencies having a lot of inflation, they see these currencies, even in terms of intra-country trade, a lot of that is not really done so, so smoothly, so to speak. But Bitcoin, it allows you to have access to an open monetary network that is global, instantly. So, it's just one of those things where, over the years, we're seeing a lot more people move out of the speculative bubble, and into actually Use cases like, you know, permits, like I said, commerce and then leveraging this technology to actually send money cheaply. And the thing is, not only is it banking beyond bank, but also providing a viable alternative to those that are apparently banked. Because again, the problem with even those that are banked is they're getting underbanked, so to speak, which is having all these unreliable bank services

• 6:31Speaker 02

  at their disposal as opposed to being able to access Bitcoin, which is a superior, you know, system, so to speak. So really, that was a trend that we're seeing and likely continue to increase as mobile is started to introduce, you know, the Lightning Network, for example. So these are kind of the trends that we're seeing and at least the good use cases that are being used, which is thank God outside of speculation.

• 6:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it it's fascinating to kind of think about many of these countries, right? In, I think it was 2016 or so, I think I went to Nigeria. And one of the things that just blew me away was the internet penetration and the mobile phone penetration. Everyone had a phone and they were all in some form or fashion connected to the internet. And I probably was in kind of the computer village area and Legos. So, you know, definitely maybe like a little bit of an outlier from just the the local economy. But when I think about that experience, you have to get the internet penetration. You have to get the mobile phone penetration in order for Bitcoin adoption to actually be present and to have that solution available. And so talk to me about kind of your understanding of where are we?

• 7:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Like, is it pretty much the default now that most young people are aware of the internet, use the internet, have mobile devices? You know, do they have internet access in their home? Like, where are we in some of these countries?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it varies because Africa is quite a huge continent and specifically with regards to infrastructure, both energy wise and in terms of internet infrastructure, it really varies a lot. So you're going to see a lot more of the, so to speak, developed energy infrastructure around the north, north parts of Africa and some parts of the South, like South Africa, for example. And Western Africa, you know, with Ghana having 24 hours of electricity and then with Nigeria, not, not so much really when it comes to energy. And then with internet penetration really is, it's more, it's less fragmented.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Good than the energy distribution across the continent, which is good for adoption specifically like you mentioned. And one of the things we're seeing specifically with regards to the demographics using Bitcoin is not only are we seeing younger people, also seeing older generations who are, you know, mom and pop stores actually getting access to Bitcoin because now with Bit now, for example, one of the use cases we're seeing grow is actually having these shop owners allow individuals to pay them in Bitcoin using Bit now. So they act as sort of this merchant system where people can actually interact directly with Bitcoin. And we're going to be seeing a lot more adoption with regards to using, you know, K O S systems over the Lightning Network now specifically with regards to smartphone penetration like you're talking about is really, really high.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  And again, pairing that with the youthful population, all that we're seeing is a lot more young people being actively, you know, available online, which is great for using something like Bitcoin, which is digital and, you know, additional native. So the thing, the thing I was specifically seeing with regards to, you know, adoption when it comes to pairing, you know, the penetration rate as well as mobile phone adoption is we have to start thinking more in terms of trying to get more decentralized internet infrastructure here. Or at least some sort of resilient internet infrastructure, specifically things like mesh networking and some other ways in order to have a less of a reliance on some of the standard internet infrastructure that we have on the continent, which we'll likely see more of going down the road.

• 9:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's fascinating to kind of think about this. Um, when you think about Bitcoin development, uh, it's a weird thing where there's developers uh, across the world who try to build technology for other groups. It could be in my own country, it could be somebody in another country, it could be for a different language, a different religion, whatever it is. But there's a huge advantage if you're able to build technology for you, right? And build technology for your local community or the people that you grew up with, et cetera. What is the state currently of Bitcoin development in some of these countries? And then how do you think about the importance of making sure that people who not only uh, are from African nations, but actually live in African nations are participating in the Bitcoin development process?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's, that's definitely a great one and. You know, over the years, we've seen quite a lot of progress in terms of actual development overall. So I like people to, you know, think of development as more of a holistic chunk in terms of Bitcoin. So when we say development, we're not specifically only narrowing it down to developers per se. We're also looking at individuals that are contributing overall to the ecosystem. So we're talking about language translation, for example, which there are great strides being made across the continent. So there are the individuals that are actively working on translating a lot of the Bitcoin material into their native languages. And, you know, I'm I'm hired in some of the other language, which is just great because you think about it. People can only benefit from Bitcoin if they know about it. And if everything is locked into, you know, English, so to speak, then they're they're locked out essentially from having this information already available to them.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Now, when it comes to developers, we're seeing a lot more people at least recognize that. Number one, there's some sort of viable job option when it comes to actually working on Bitcoin. And it's not just a bunch of folks who are working pro bono, you know. So unfortunately, obviously, there are a couple of shitcoin products that come into the continent and just, you know, airdrop a ton of money. And then we bring out a lot of these developers in terms of the mind share onto building for shitcoin projects. But we're seeing a lot more individuals flock towards Bitcoin as they realize a lot more of the resilience that they're looking for in terms of both freedom and an actual monetary network to use for, you know, global remittances on Bitcoin. As opposed to some of these other teams, we're seeing a lot more people build on Bitcoin. That's one. We're seeing a lot more people get interested to actually learn about Bitcoin, both from a developer perspective and in terms of average individuals trying to use Bitcoin.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Another good thing that we're seeing is, you know, with the introduction of Gala, for example, which I'm a part of. And the good thing or the great thing with Gala is already we're currently, you know, um, having the thirteen participants, which will be graduating into the ecosystem to actually get Bitcoin jobs. So the cool thing with this project is we're allowing developers not only to learn about Bitcoin, but to actually practically have, you know, um, projects that they build on Bitcoin in order to build out their portfolio and actually look at ways in which they can improve Bitcoin or at least improve the usage of Bitcoin on the continent. So they're kind of localizing the context of Bitcoin developments through this program. So we're going to be seeing a lot more projects like Gala come up. We're going to see a lot more people engaging on good translation.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  We're going to see a lot more, um, wallets and services, integrated lightning network especially, and a lot more people trying to look at Bitcoin as more than just a speculative asset, like I said, a true financial freedom tool.

• 12:49Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you think about recursive capital, which you're the CEO and I believe CTO of as well, it is focused on doing what? Investing in infrastructure around Bitcoin and bringing it to some of these nations?

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we're looking at it at a broader context, like I like to say, which the thing is, we're trying to be active investors, not just passive investors. So one of the things that we're looking at doing is providing as much value into the ecosystem, especially when it comes to portfolio companies or invested in or just in general. So in terms of how we're trying to look at it from, let's say, five to 10 years, we're looking at actually having recursive capital, not only invest in portfolio companies, but actually have an arm, which is recursive lab, they'll be engaging in, you know, sort of liquidity management, liquidity provision, integration of Lightning and Bitcoin, as well as looking at another arm, which is recursive research, they'll be dealing with research and development in the continent and pumping out newsletters and research reports, but specifically with regards to your question about us investing,

• 13:47Speaker 02

  what we're looking at is, we're looking at infrastructure as well as some of the wallets and products and services. So when we see infrastructure, we like to look at it as not only mining, we're also talking about node software. For example, we're also looking at, you know, products and services that allow for secondary solutions, secondary solutions themselves, products that are built on those secondary solutions, and kind of the general infrastructure around Bitcoin that enables it to continue to be a resilient monetary network.

• 14:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's fascinating to kind of think about just how much work needs to be done. What's been the response from the local tech community? Like, in the United States, people who are focused on Bitcoin, they're seen as a little crazy, even in the tech community, which likes to kind of, you know, hold the flag of innovation and progress. What is it like in some of these areas where maybe the tech community, they're into Bitcoin or are they not? And like, what's their response been?

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's been a bumpy ride, to say the least. Initially, when we started out, you know, back in 2020, which is not really that long ago, but in Bitcoin terms, that's like a decade ago. What we started seeing was a lot of people go, hey, you know, this Bitcoin thing is a scam. We're not really feeling this. We might as well focus on fintech, it's proven out the ecosystem is there, it's developed. And we're like, you know, you guys need to realize that this is the future of not only money, but financial freedom. And they're like, yeah, you know, we'll see. And then what started happening over the years is, you know, as more companies came on, you know, the Bitknobs, ETC, you know, the, even the Bitcoins early on, a lot of people started realizing that there's more to it than just, like I said, speculation, especially with, you know, using

• 15:19Speaker 02

  Dollar plus averaging through Bitno, for example, that opened up the gates in terms of allowing people to not only use Bitcoin as a savings mechanism, but to have it, you know, actually growing their wealth. And that was a huge sell, especially for the younger guys or younger generations. So we're starting to see a lot more people respect this space, or at least acknowledge that it exists. That's one. Two, in terms of the investor landscape, we're looking at a lot more or we're seeing a lot more investors being open to Bitcoin and actually being open to investing in companies in this space. So our conversation has or our conversations have become a lot more friendly when it comes to the investors and a lot more accepted, which is really great for the for the overall ecosystem because it means now we have capital that will likely come in and flood the gates and actually invest in these companies to grow the ecosystem as a whole.

• 16:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. My last question, then my brother's got a couple of questions for you is the Bitcoin Trust. My understanding is that about 7,000 people from around the world applied to be involved in some form or fashion. You were selected as one of those individuals. You're on the board of the Bitcoin Trust, which is Jack Dorsey's effort. Talk to me, why, why were you interested in participating? And then what are you guys doing there in that body of work?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's one of those things where, you know, it's, it's, it's good to be on Twitter is all I have to say because initially I got the, I got the request DM to me by my older brother. He was like, hey dude, why don't you try this? And I'm like, yeah, you know, just this, you know, little kid in the ecosystem, just being a dove. Like, yeah, but worst case you won't get it. And I'm like, yeah, fair enough. So I got in and really the main reason why I wanted to, you know, apply or I did apply is because I see, I see ourselves as having a lot of responsibility going forward in terms of growing the space actively speaking, like you mentioned. The space is really, really, what I see, it's, it's really in its infancy, which means there's a lot to do. So one of the things I was thinking about, especially going through the process, which was, you know,

• 17:10Speaker 02

  at least initially, it took quite a while for them to get back to us. And to your point, that is, I guess now because we know there are like 70 people who applied. So initially after they got back, I'm like, whoa, I'm still in. So after that, throughout the process, what was happening was, you know, I'm getting back in terms of providing our feedback in terms of outlining issues and ecosystem, how are you gonna? Actually tackle these issues because outlining issues very, very easy. So what started happening was I started documenting really what I was going through in terms of the back and forth we were having all the way up to the interview process. So that was initially what eventually morphed into an article that I dropped in Bitcoin magazine about bringing the ecosystem in Africa. So the way I see it is in general, we're talking about bringing the ecosystem really has to be multi-passed in it. Like I said,

• 17:53Speaker 02

  as to not only be in terms of trying to get the developer efforts to a stage where it's not really competing at the global stage, but is actually leading in terms of development. We also have to look at things like language translation, which I think is going to be increasingly important as well. Looking to hit demographics that are multilingual. So one of the things that we're primarily looking at on B Trust is actually trying to number one, maintain a set of really rigid principles going forward and outline how we're trying to grow the ecosystem in a really clear and concise way so that we don't trip ourselves up so that we have a clear path in terms of achieving the goals that we want. So we're looking at obviously being Bitcoin only. That's one. The huge important one, we're looking at ensuring that we have transparency throughout the process whilst still respecting

• 18:36Speaker 02

  you know, the privacy of some of the board members like myself. Obviously, we don't want individuals coming up and mugging me or some of the other board members like Carla and the rest that live on the continent. So these are, we're really looking at ways to grow the ecosystem and that'll initially be focusing specifically on open source development and specifically on developers, especially through grant style funding, which is where we're primarily looking at. And obviously the target demographic or target geography initially going up is, you know, Africa. So really that's kind of the like overall gist and like a quick brief of what we're trying to do.

• 19:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it's uh, it's pretty incredible. I love this. Uh, Joe, John, what questions do you guys have?

• 19:14Speaker 03

  My question would just be on kind of the progress that's been made in Africa specifically. Uh, like just talk me through kind of how you think about that today. What, I don't know if you want to give them a grade, but just like generally how uh, how you view the progress and like how much further there is still to go.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, like I said, we're still at like the infant stages really, like in a global terms really, not even at a local context though. I'll still leave some, some room for leniency when it comes to the grading. So I'll give it like a B plus. Just because, you know, the the development has been almost exponential in terms of, you know, not only the products we're seeing, but the heightened interest and as well as the conscientiousness of actual average folks using Bitcoin. So I think there's still a lot to be done.

• 19:59Speaker 02

  Specifically, when it comes to integrating our average fintech reels, which are, you know, all right, to actually leverage Bitcoin, which will make it supercharged and allow us to actually have a proper monetary network that we can then build future products and services and actually need the continent away from some of these. And some of the shackles of some of the crimes is like, you know, the the Francophone countries are going through, for example. So looking at it from the point of view of how do we not only help with Bitcoin development in general, because Bitcoin development is decentralized, which is really great. So it means.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  Any sort of development that happens outside of the continent as well as within the continent compounds the sort of benefit that we see globally, even at a at the local level as well, which is really good. So what it means is, for example, if we have a strike working really hard in terms of providing lightning tuition all the way outside of the shores of the continent. As well as having some of these products and services on the continent, integrating lightning, it means all the access that we have in terms of sending money abroad and at home are now supercharged and are now not only allowed to be freely opening, you know, the floodgates to individuals providing.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Serious monetary network that allows them to actually access money and send it back and forth globally cheaply, which is impossible to do with the current system. Then I think we're on we're on the good side. So it means obviously that we have to focus on trying to. Really increase this development in a way that obviously is conscious of, you know, the local context that we're operating in as well as trying to make. Make it very easy for individuals to use because that's the number one thing that we have to consider if we're trying to onboard as many people as possible. It's not fair enough that Bitcoin is a superior monetary network. It has to be easy to use for them. So we're looking at ways to actually fund companies that are looking into this deeply.

• 21:40Speaker 02

  As well as actually trying to ensure that we're building an infrastructure that supports this development too. So like I said, mesh networking, that's all these other resilient and ten infrastructure as well. Abu Bakr, you talked about that onboarding process. Can you talk about the education that's available?

• 21:53Anthony Pompliano?

  To kind of get people involved and just interested in general, knowing what Bitcoin is.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there's been great progress on that end. So initially, what started happening is some of the local communities started self organizing. I like a really small scale, so a bunch of small startups here and there, and then startups meetups. A bunch of them here and there. So some happening in Lagos, some happening in where I am. And then what started happening is individuals recognizing, like I said, the benefit of Bitcoin and starting to see more than just a speculative asset. And then now starting to see like a proper investment mechanism, a proper monetary network by the Lightning Network, T payments, all that kind of great stuff.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  And really as a liberating force. So in terms of education right now, we're seeing a lot more people not only translate material, which is key and important, but there, there's a lot more material available, really in general, when it comes to Bitcoin. So both in terms of allowing people to understand how to use it correctly. So you're not address reusing, for example, allowing them to understand some of the tools and services that are available. So let's say I would like to send, you know, my friend two thousand there, for example, and all I have big is Bitcoin and all they have is a bank account. You can actually use the service called Coin Profile, which you just send Bitcoin to an address and then it does a bank transfer on your end.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  So the cool thing with that is obviously is not only allows you to communicate back and forth between the legacy and the future system that we're thinking about is we're also looking at a lot more people starting to really try and leverage the existing, you know, hubs, for example, the tech hubs, which is something I'm really closely involved in doing, especially in Kuduna, which is trying to use these existing structures to actually propagate the Bitcoin message. Because again, it's a lot harder to start up all these ecosystems from scratch. Why don't we just plug into the existing tech ecosystem, which is what we're trying to do. So yes, it's getting there. There's a lot to do. I'm really excited. As you can tell, so yeah, I'll like this, you know, the continent progressed at A plus.

• 23:56Anthony Pompliano?

  When, when you think about what's needed, right? If you could get the word out to, you know, whether it's other folks in Africa or folks that are not in Africa, what, what is the two things that you would say, okay, if we can solve problem A, problem B, this will drastically increase adoption awareness and ultimately kind of deliver this solution to, to the people who need it most.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  I say primarily, we need, we need a lot more quality developers working in this space. Cause currently at the moment, you know, outside of the Gala program, for example, we're not seeing too many developers in this space. And when I say developers, I mean Bitcoin only developers. Cause currently what's happening, like I told you, is a lot of tech engineers that we have on the continent. But the issue is they're flocking over to building on some of these other chains again, as a result of some of the grant programs that those other chains have on some of the money that are just indiscriminately during on the continent. So I think definitely having a lot more developers work in this space is going to provide a huge net positive. Another thing that I think is really, really important is having the capital to invest in some of these companies

• 25:03Speaker 02

  that are trying to solve a lot of the problems, a lot of the problems obviously here locally. So I think this is definitely having the developers and then as well as having some capital. And if there's room for a third, I'd say definitely education because without that, again, if individuals don't know about Bitcoin, then we're really building for no one.

• 25:22Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, it, it, um, it feels like the developer specifically is a huge component all around the world. And then I, I guess one other piece of it is you mentioned translation as a key piece. Are, are there other kind of on the ground specifics that are very obvious maybe to people who live in these economies? But to kind of a Western or more American focused audience, they may not realize just like the blocking and tackling that's needed to get, uh, get this done and get people educated and aware.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like I mentioned, a lot of people, obviously that have the privilege of being English speakers, kind of overlook this, this common facet of when it comes to actual education. Because what they see is, you know, I can speak English, the, the world is English. Whereas that's not the case. There are a lot of languages, especially on a continent as diverse as Africa. A lot of these other countries are actually even French speaking countries and some of the other languages as well. So I, I like to give this example really is to think of it as, imagine having, you know, all this Bitcoin information locked in hieroglyphics. So this is before the time of the register stone. I mean, if that was the case, then. There wouldn't be any progress in terms of actually allowing this proliferation now

• 26:34Speaker 02

  to individuals who actually need Bitcoin, which is outside of more of the developed nations that you're talking about. So really, when it comes to language translation, this is a huge, huge component of education again, because you're unlocking the secrets of the universe, so to speak, which is allowing individuals to actually know about Bitcoin and then how to use it, having all these practices and documentation about learning how to use these tools readily available to individuals. So I think obviously the way forward with regards to that is funding some of these projects and individuals that are hard at work in terms of translating. So you know, passing some of the individuals around the continent doing work on that. Another thing obviously is reaching out to some of these tech ecosystems, like I said, there are already existing tech hubs who

• 27:16Speaker 02

  are even, you know, cater to non-English speaking demographics. So what you'd be doing is keying into those ecosystems and saying, hey, you know, that's part of an actual translation of this Bitcoin material we have. And they're like, okay, yeah, let's go for it. And then like that, you could actually have this sort of grassroots movement where you're having to leverage all these existing infrastructures to provide this language translation as well. So I think really that's at least one way we could go about it, especially. So yeah, it's a huge part, definitely.

• 27:46Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Before we get finished here, I want to just fire off some questions and you just answer as we go. Ready?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Favorite Bitcoin memory so far?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  I'd say my first pull request back in 2019.

• 28:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Sick. Uh, most memorable conversation or lesson learned from Jack Dorsey?

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Oof. Um, I definitely see it's one of the combos that we had early on in the process. We're talking about, you know, the general importance of Bitcoin on the continent. It was, at least it was a really good convo from the perspective of how he outlines some of the things that were kind of missing in my thinking, and also looking at ways in which we could actually provide the change that we need to. So it was really robust conversation. I definitely say that's one of the most memorable ones.

• 28:35Anthony Pompliano?

  Amazing. In your eyes, Bitcoin means, fill in the blank?

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Financial freedom.

• 28:41Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. Uh, sleep schedule. One of our sponsors is Eight Sleep. What's your sleep schedule?

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Oof, it's, it's up to, it's just the, I'm a night owl. Well, yeah, it depends. On weekdays, I'm a lot more staying. Weekend, it's just all over the place.

• 28:57Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, like four hours or like six hours? Like what, what, when you say it's messed up, like how bad is it?

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Well, it's just the some days I get two, three hours.

• 29:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, we got a fan. Listen, we need you for the long haul, buddy. We're gonna have to get you sleeping at least six.

• 29:14Anthony Pompliano?

  All right.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  But it's getting better.

• 29:15Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Look, looking forward, the milestone you're most looking forward to?

• 29:21Speaker 02

  Ooh, um, getting a lot more developers in the ecosystem, that's for sure.

• 29:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, uh, the first African nation to move on to the Bitcoin standard is?

• 29:34Speaker 02

  I'd like to Nigeria, but I don't think that's realistic. There'll probably be some other smaller country.

• 29:38Anthony Pompliano?

  A smaller one? Okay. And then lastly is, uh, your Twitter account is at I hate 1999. What's the story with that?

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I joined Twitter back in like 2010 when I was about 11 years old. So only God knows why I chose that.

• 29:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, so you literally just, when you first signed up, that's what you chose and you just kept it?

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was too late to change over the years. So I just went, you know, might as well just keep it.

• 30:08Anthony Pompliano?

  What, what year were you born?

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Uh, 1999.

• 30:15Anthony Pompliano?

  I love that. All right.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Confused like, oh, we got to know that.

• 30:20Anthony Pompliano?

  Listen, it, it provides something that's memorable. No one will forget your Twitter account, right?

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Fair point.

• 30:26Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, it sounds good. What, what, other than Twitter, where else can we send people to find out more about recursive, about Bitcoin trust or about yourself?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  I definitely see they should probably look at our website if there's recursive related. So it's rcrsp.xyz.

• 30:39Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Listen, buddy, I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I'm super, uh, excited. I would love to bring you back, uh, kind of over the next couple of months as things develop. Um, I, I feel like, uh, various countries in Africa are at the absolute forefront of, uh, uh, not only the need, but also of adoption. Right? We've seen the numbers, uh, that are self-reported, but, but still the numbers around. Nigeria and a few other countries. And so just understanding what's happening there, I think is going to be a huge piece of folks both on the continent, but also off really seeing here is the true value of this technology and what it can do for for people. So we'll definitely have you come back and kind of keep us updated on that along with the other work that you're doing.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that thanks. Thanks for having me. And, you know, I just continue the work that we're doing, especially with robust of fundraising that we're crisis as well because we're actively fundraising right now. So there's a lot of combos that'll be had. Hopefully next time I come on, I have some interesting stories to share with you guys.

• 31:37Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. I think that that would be a ton of fun. So thanks so much for taking the time to to join us today.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks for having me.

• 31:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Talk later.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  All right, guys.

• 31:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.