Episode 3: ‘Are You Recording This?’

Vienna confronts her abuser face-to-face chasing a confession that could hold up in court. Hear all episodes of Personally: Agent Layla now, early and ad-free, onCBC Stories Premium on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/channel/cbc-stories/id6443681642. https://agentlayla.ca/

• 0:00Speaker 00

  In 2002, Ryan Wedding was an Olympic snowboarder at the top of his game.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Ryan's style is really gunning it in gold.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  And in less than a minute, it slipped away. But he continued to chase the high.

• 0:14Speaker 02

  Ryan James Wedding. He controls one of the most violent drug trafficking organizations in this world.

• 0:23Speaker 00

  I'm Michelle Shepherd, and from CBC Podcasts and The Toronto Star, The Most Wanted Olympian. Available now.

• 0:32Speaker 03

  This is a CBC Podcast.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  Just a warning before we begin. This episode contains a description of sexual assault. Please take care while listening.

• 0:47Speaker 00

  August 2019. Vienna and Shaughnessy buckle Vienna's newborn into the car seat. They drive to the Vancouver Police Station. Vienna walks inside. She files a police report against her brother-in-law, Justin Sewell. Then she and Shaughnessy brace themselves.

• 1:09Speaker 00

  They think any day, the cops will be knocking on Justin's door. They'll put him in handcuffs. Their family will finally see the truth. They know he drugged Vienna and took off her underwear. What else might he have done? Justin Sewell would be on the outs. If not behind bars, at least out of the family fold.

• 1:31Speaker 04

  In our kind of naive minds, like armchair police detectives, we're thinking like, oh yeah, we got it.

• 1:38Speaker 00

  But for months, nothing happens. No news from the police.

• 1:43Speaker 05

  This is how I imagine it. Every time I called, it's like, well, it's a historical file. So it's at the bottom of my pile. It's the back of my desk. It's like the last thing I get to in a day.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  They pester. Then it lands on exactly the right desk.

• 2:01Speaker 06

  My whole life, I have been a champion for the underdog.

• 2:05Speaker 00

  Sergeant Joelle Lechance.

• 2:07Speaker 06

  I remember my files. I remember, I remember my people. I remember everyone I've ever interviewed, especially investigations like this, the historic sexual assaults where there isn't a lot of evidence. And, you know, being able to, to stand up for the victim. It's why I do my job.

• 2:26Speaker 00

  In the tiny RCMP detachment in the remote town of Fort St. John, Vienna has finally found a cop willing to take her case seriously. And carefully.

• 2:37Speaker 06

  We sought an opinion on what would be the best way to approach this. Especially, one of the other things we needed to consider was Justin's position in the community and all the things that he had to lose.

• 2:51Speaker 00

  Justin, town veterinarian, respected in the church he'd gone to since he was a child. He's a father of four cheering on the soccer sidelines every weekend. Sure, Sergeant Lechance could go knock on his door. But with his reputation on the line, he would just deny it. And they would have blown the one shot they had to try to get him to talk. So she took the file to top investigators with the RCMP for advice, including people from the undercover team.

• 3:21Speaker 06

  And so the person in charge of that unit, he actually called me and he proposed this idea. You know, if there's any chance that we can have her sit down and do a face-to-face with, with Justin and get that conversation recorded, that it would be so much better.

• 3:41Speaker 06

  And so that's where the concept of making Vienna an agent started to develop.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Vienna has lived for more than a decade with the mystery of what Justin really did to her that night. The police are now investigating and Vienna is going to play the lead role.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  From CBC's Personally, I'm Jodi Martinson. This is Agent Layla. Episode three. Are you recording this?

• 4:28Speaker 00

  Sergeant Joelle Lechance calls up Vienna. She starts to explain the plan. Vienna needs to sign an agreement to become a police agent at the RCMP's Pacific Region Headquarters. That's where she meets a guy we're going to call Lenny.

• 4:43Speaker 05

  It was like me at one end and then this giant, long boardroom table and him at the other end. And he's like a big guy.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Lenny is an undercover cop. His work has made him some enemies. So we're not using his real name.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  She was a little wide-eyed when I walk in. I can be a, I can be a presence in a room if I come in. I'm loud and big and I probably had long hair and stuff at the time. So she was taken a little bit aback, I think. And she had no idea what to expect.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  Lenny notices right away that Vienna has come prepared.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Like, why do you have a notebook and a pen? You can't write anything down. Because where does that go when we leave here? You're going to get compromised.

• 5:30Speaker 05

  He was like, well, like, almost like taken aback. Like, oh, my goodness, you're like taking notes. I don't usually work with your type.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  For the whole meeting, Lenny's trying to size her up.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Hey, this isn't a trained hitman. This is a mom who has a normal life outside of this.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, totally. Just your neighborhood, your neighborhood mom.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  And honestly, when I left that meeting, I still didn't know if we would be able to do it. To be perfectly honest with you. She's very polite, very shy, you know, very soft spoken. And I knew that was exactly everything opposite of what we were going to need to do. I was like, well, this is going to be outside of her comfort zone for sure.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Vienna signs the agreement. Inspired by a young Canadian tennis player who's kicking butt on the big stage, they give her a code name, Leila. Leila is no Pilates teaching, boring old mom. She's Agent Leila, an operative of the RCMP. For her first official task, the cops meet her in a hotel room and get her to log into her inbox. And together, they sift through emails that Justin has sent Vienna over the years. They're looking to see how he thinks.

• 6:58Speaker 05

  I made many unwise decisions, Vienna. Unfortunately, some of them involved you. I see how being introduced to pornography at age seven affected me. I put your sister and parents in the position of having to make a choice, who to believe. Ultimately, I hope that someday our families can be together. But most importantly, I hope you can heal.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  For Vienna and the police reading over her shoulder, the question was, were these messages of remorse or something different?

• 7:26Speaker 05

  I had periods of thinking, oh, maybe I will just forgive this guy and move on. And then also periods of being like, I think he's fishing for information.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  The emails are long on explanations and justifications. There's some faith-based advice.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  The emails that I saw were two pages of him rambling BS and would like go off on tangents about Jesus and that never amounted to any sort of explanation or closure or answer or anything. And I just knew.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Justin sent Vienna several emails over five years. Vienna hasn't responded once.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore.

• 8:15Speaker 00

  So now they have to explain why, all of a sudden, she's responding. They offer an incentive, family reconciliation.

• 8:24Speaker 05

  The idea of basically beating him at his own game. Like all dangle, the carrot of like family, of being together. Yeah, I'll put it all out there. Like, watch me.

• 8:39Speaker 00

  They get writing.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  "I have obviously gotten your emails over the years," they write. "I've been feeling pretty torn about all this lately, and that's the reason I'm reaching out to you now. Our family's disconnected because of what you did to me. That's why we can't go on vacations or have family gatherings. I feel the only way for me to get the closure I need is a real conversation between you and me." At 2:39 PM, they press send.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  They hadn't talked in years and there had been a strain within the family. And so I didn't. Know how it was gonna go, really, or even if he would reply.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  Forty-four minutes later, an email.

• 9:28Speaker 05

  Um, well, uh, oh, it's a bit much.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  Vienna, receiving your email is the best thing to happen to me in years. I'm tearful about the prospect of helping you move past this and heal. I don't believe my healing will ever be complete without yours.

• 9:49Speaker 05

  I'm willing to engage in any process you feel appropriate. I will be on a plane tomorrow.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  Like, to me, that was a good, I was shocked, but that was a good shock. We're in a good position here.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  They're like, whoa, he's like playing right into our hand. Like, he's giving us exactly what we're asking for. And so we continue to craft.

• 10:15Speaker 00

  The emails go back and forth. Justin writes, it happened to you. It was sexual assault. I'm guilty of that. I'm not trying to hide it. I hope you understand me stating that puts the control in your hands. So Vienna thinks, I got him. He admitted to sexual assault. Mission accomplished. Agent Layla signing off. Right?

• 10:41Speaker 05

  Joelle called me and said, so as much as we've got, because he did admit to sexually assaulting me. She was like, that is not going to hold up in court. So we have to take this a little bit further.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Sexual assault is a broad term, capturing everything from a lurid touch to a violent rape. To get a charge to stick, police need to know exactly what happened. Sergeant Lechance says the cops want to try something that's almost never done. They want Vienna to meet Justin face to face, and she'll need to wear a wire. She'll need to be Agent Layla in the flesh.

• 11:24Speaker 05

  I guess because of the trauma, that would sound so kind of counterintuitive. Like, why would you put yourself right back in the line of fire? But I actually don't see any other way. And I'm the only one that can do this. The whole thing really was conditional on me. Like, it all came down to me.

• 11:56Speaker 00

  They've been assessing how she's handling the pressure, and they think she's up for the job.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  How is she reacting to it? Is she just saying, yes, I can do it, but she's sobbing on the ground? Is this going to do more harm than good?

• 12:11Speaker 06

  People didn't believe we could do it. And I believed with Vienna as the agent that we could do it because she was showing the strength and wanting to, to have justice and wanting to have her say in this matter.

• 12:30Speaker 05

  So bring it on, let's go, let's, yeah, let's get a confession.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  The police decide transforming Vienna into Agent Layla will require training.

• 12:43Speaker 00

  And they decide she'll need some support. So they break all the rules and tell Vienna she can bring Shaughnessy in on the operation. Shaughnessy is all in. Here's a voice memo she recorded after she got off the phone for the first time with Lenny. You can hear Vienna's relief.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  You have the jackpot of people, Vienna. This guy gets it.

• 13:05Speaker 00

  I know, I really, I've got three other handles.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, these guys are amazing.

• 13:12Speaker 00

  Vienna and Shaughnessy head to downtown Vancouver to yet another hotel.

• 13:17Speaker 05

  They really like to use hotel rooms.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  They move a side table in front of the window, chairs across from each other. And Lenny starts the agentization.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  One thing was pretty clear in my conversations with Vienna about the relationship her and Justin had is that he certainly was the alpha in that relationship. So I knew that we were gonna have to flip that script. And she was gonna have to, you know, take charge of the conversation.

• 13:54Speaker 05

  So he would say, what if he says this? What if he says this?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  Pull it out of me, like, take control. You are a strong, you aren't the girl who got taken advantage of. You're the mom of two, and we can do this.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  You're gonna go in there and you're not taking no for an answer. I'm running it today. I'm setting the agenda.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Vienna has her notebook. She writes down prompts, drugs, what kind, what amount? Pictures, how many, what positions? And Shaughnessy sees how Lenny is using the emails from Justin as source material.

• 14:38Speaker 04

  Because he's playing the role, would be like, yeah, I'm here for your healing and here for, and then go, he would kind of go on some diatribe, like, we hear in the emails about God and about faith. And then, and then it would force Vienna to have to say, no, sorry, we're here now. And I'm not here to talk about you. This is about me and what I need.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  And I just kept using that phrase with her, like, you are taking your life back. Like, fucking right, I got this, and I am going to get the answer that I've been wanting.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  Justin's answers can't be vague. Vienna has to push him to be specific if the tape is going to be usable in court. So they need to get her comfortable with words she never says and a graphic level of detail.

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Like, so those conversations I was having with her, I would be awkward having them with my wife. But it's like, this is what's gonna be required, and you're gonna have to talk about ejaculating.

• 15:35Speaker 00

  By the end of the day, Shaughnessy leaves the training, feeling Vienna is with the best team for the job. October 19th, 2021, 4:11 PM.

• 15:48Speaker 00

  I'm just sitting here now after the second day. When she was doing the role play, she just, like, all of a sudden, the lights went on and it clicked. And she just stepped into her power. And the team is so amazing, and they just care so deeply. And it feels like an army. It's like an army of justice soldiers are forging ahead together. And like, I feel I could almost cry because it feels like a weight's been taken off my shoulders. I've held on to this for so long. Vienna feels good about the team, too. But unlike Shaughnessy, she has some doubts.

• 16:26Speaker 05

  I mean, yeah, you guys are great, and like, I'm so grateful. But also, you say that you believe me. You probably really want to, but do you really, like, believe me?

• 16:46Speaker 00

  For a month, at night when the kids are in bed, Vienna gets on her stationary bike. She drills herself. If he zigs, she zags, Lenny's voice echoing in her head. Fucking right, you got this, girl. She thinks about him saying she's taking her life back. And she thinks about her oldest sister, Sunny. If she's successful, this will be like a bomb going off in Sunny's life, in the lives of Sunny's children.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  But that's the bargain Vienna makes.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  My sights were set on her knowing the full truth. Like, I, I have to get the truth for her.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  In the lead up to Halloween, the cops and Vienna send an email. Does he really mean business?

• 17:37Speaker 05

  Justin, I have to admit that I was having second thoughts about engaging in this process with you. If I feel you're not being sincere or twisting this to make yourself look better or not being honest with me, I'm done with forcing myself to try and fix this. And well, our family situation will be what it will be.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Justin says, yes, he wants to meet. He'll wait for Vienna to name the time and place. He's walking into the trap. But why? What's in it for him? Sergeant Joelle Lechance has a hunch.

• 18:08Speaker 06

  It was self-serving. It wasn't about answering the questions for Vienna. This is a family that they holidayed together. They did everything as a family unit. And once Vienna pulled out of that, and then Shaughnessy pulled out of that, and people, they knew that Justin was the reason. So Justin wanted to also be the reason that they came back, that he drew them back into the fold. Just being the hero for the family, like, oh, look at, now we can go on holidays again.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Vienna's got her sights set on a different version of a future family holiday.

• 18:41Speaker 05

  My plan is that I get my family back and that you're not part of that.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  Lenny sets the time and place, the lounge at the Vancouver Airport Hotel, Friday, October 29.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  You think I'm exactly the same. You think I'm gonna play your same little game, but we've got a new game, and I'm writing it.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  How do I recover from a friendship breakup? How come there's nowhere to hang out anymore? Why do I feel lonely when I can communicate with anyone and everyone through my phone? These are the questions that you're not alone in asking. And that's where our new podcast, Cornerpiece, comes in to start small on life's biggest questions. I'm Taha, and with my friends Sabrina and Melissa, we're going to explore life's ungooglable questions on this new podcast with TED. Come hang out with us on Cornerpiece, with new episodes every other Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 19:58Speaker 06

  Fifty-six hours on the 29th of October, 2021.

• 20:04Speaker 06

  And this is going to be Leila.

• 20:08Speaker 05

  Test one, two, three, four, five.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  This is the actual recording of the operation. The voices of the undercover police officers have been altered.

• 20:17Speaker 06

  Perfect.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  It's go time. An undercover cop has wired up Vienna. One microphone in her purse, another microphone in her bra. Vienna has her list of questions.

• 20:30Speaker 06

  You got your notebook?

• 20:34Speaker 06

  Got this, girl, take all the time you need. Got this, Gray, got this.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  Okay, I got this.

• 20:40Speaker 06

  We're right there with you.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Three handlers are already set up, blending in at tables in the lounge. Now it's up to Agent Layla.

• 20:55Speaker 05

  I was so nervous, but I feel like if I paid any attention to how nervous I was, then I would not have left that room. I would not have stepped foot in the elevator. I would not have gone into the restaurant, would not have sat down. I would not have done any of it. So I, I've given myself over to completely that role of like, you're going in, you're getting what you need, follow your notes.

• 21:24Speaker 00

  Vienna picks a spot with some privacy. She sits down. Upstairs, Shaughnessy and the cops are listening.

• 21:32Speaker 04

  You could hear a pin drop, like we were not chit-chatting while we were up in that hotel room.

• 21:37Speaker 06

  I mean, we were all very nervous. Was Justin even going to show up? But mostly it was concern for Vienna and the emotional impact that the meeting was going to have on her.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  They hear Vienna order. Yeah, absolutely.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  Do you want like an English beer, cause they're great. Pearl green.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Then?

• 22:02Speaker 05

  Oh, I think the guy's here. I think he's here. Can you hear me?

• 22:05Speaker 00

  Justin walks in.

• 22:07Speaker 05

  Dang, looks exactly the same.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  It's not just that he looks the same. 14 years later, to Vienna, he seems the same as he sits down across from her.

• 22:19Speaker 05

  Okay, so I haven't really wanted to do this for quite some time.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  When she's nervous, Vienna laughs like this.

• 22:31Speaker 05

  And, but I actually have a notebook today and I wrote notes because I want to make sure that I cover off everything that I want to.

• 22:42Speaker 05

  Who, and we're going to take this at my pace.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  Vienna's supposed to take control, but Justin makes the first move.

• 22:50Speaker 06

  Can I just ask, if you're staring, are you recording this?

• 22:54Speaker 05

  No.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Are you recording this?

• 23:00Speaker 06

  It wouldn't matter to me because I feel this is your information. And you do it whenever you.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  When he said, are you recording this? I was like, okay, so he smells something.

• 23:18Speaker 05

  I feel like I came here today, or I know I came here today wanting you to give me details on what happened. So I hope that, you know, based on the emails we sent back and forth, that you're prepared to be honest and not kind of like beat around the bush. So are you?

• 23:40Speaker 06

  You will get everything you need from your day.

• 23:43Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 23:43Speaker 06

  Because it'll be more traumatic for you if you had to do it again.

• 23:48Speaker 05

  Good, then I, yeah, then I want to hear everything.

• 23:52Speaker 06

  So throughout that night, and I don't mean to go into other things, like

• 24:00Speaker 06

  this whole objectification of women in our culture right now is what had happened for me at that time. And for some reason, I had a line drawn in my head. But I wasn't, I wasn't going to touch you in a sexual way.

• 24:25Speaker 05

  Okay, but you're not actually telling me what happened.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, girl, yeah. Training, right there. He talks about objectification of women in today's society. Take control of that conversation. Get it back on track. Like, don't just accept a two-minute fluffy bullshit answer that goes off to the side. Get an answer.

• 24:53Speaker 05

  Okay, let's get back to the night and what actually, tell me what happened.

• 24:58Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 25:00Speaker 06

  I encouraged you to drink alcohol.

• 25:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 06

  You had never been drunk. I had done that in advance, setting this up as an opportunity for you to see what it was like to be drunk.

• 25:16Speaker 05

  Well, yes, that's what you told me.

• 25:18Speaker 06

  Right.

• 25:18Speaker 05

  But that's not what happened.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  No.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  I remember that you laid down the ottoman on your back.

• 25:29Speaker 05

  Oh, I did not lay down. I lost feeling in my legs. And that's not what happens when someone gets drunk.

• 25:38Speaker 06

  Um, right. Um, I put something in one of the drinks.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  That's what they heard from the vet Justin had an affair with. Now Vienna's hearing it from Justin himself. He drugged her.

• 25:56Speaker 05

  I'm like, yay, I got that. Check. Yeah, yeah, you put that in my drink and yeah, I just confirmed it.

• 26:05Speaker 06

  But I know I looked at it later and the amount that I put in your drink was, I was nervous about it and I didn't know how much. And so I was cautious. I can't imagine that it did anything to me. But maybe the combination is going to do anything. But I did put something in the drinks.

• 26:25Speaker 05

  And what was it?

• 26:27Speaker 06

  I'm not sure if it was Valium or ketamine.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Valium or ketamine. Both are date rape drugs.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  It's just like bingo. And then we high-fived. We all high-fived.

• 26:41Speaker 06

  I mean, it was excellent for our case. He admitted that he drugged her and what he drugged her with. But it was also very concerning in terms of him saying that he didn't know what the effect would be. I mean, he's a vet. I'm going to roll your back with the ottoman and you started throwing up. You were throwing up, so I helped you downstairs to your bedroom

• 27:08Speaker 06

  on your clothing. And so I helped you out of your clothes. You were rolling up and throwing up. And the pictures that I took during that time were of you on the bed.

• 27:29Speaker 05

  How many photos did you take?

• 27:32Speaker 06

  There you go.

• 27:33Speaker 05

  Was I, what, was I wearing anything in any of them?

• 27:37Speaker 06

  No.

• 27:40Speaker 05

  And I, I kind of don't believe that you just took pictures of me naked.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Vienna's not buying it because the people who saw them left open on Justin's clinic computer have told Shaughnessy they're really graphic. Police never find these photos. Justin says he drew a line.

• 28:01Speaker 06

  One of the things, I guess, I guess the reason that I wanted to draw the distinction between sexual contact and non-sexual contact is because there was contact that I remember I felt really close to you at that time.

• 28:20Speaker 06

  Um, so I laid down beside you and I put my arm around you. But I, I was careful that I didn't touch your breasts when I put my arm around you because that would be sexual.

• 28:33Speaker 05

  You, you wrote in the email that you sexually assaulted me, which, yeah, so I, so at what point?

• 28:42Speaker 06

  Taking pictures of you as sexual.

• 28:45Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 28:45Speaker 06

  I.

• 28:47Speaker 05

  But.

• 28:47Speaker 06

  Right, I masturbated twice.

• 28:52Speaker 00

  So far Vienna has been confirming information they already had. Drugs, check. Photos, check. But he masturbated twice? This is new.

• 29:03Speaker 06

  And it is between that I laid down with you. After you have sex, there's been a time where you're not ready to have sex again.

• 29:15Speaker 06

  And so it was during that time that I was laying beside you, spooning at you, just holding you. And so I may have been up against you. I'd like.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  Penis may have been in around your rear end, around your legs. But it wasn't. Like, I've always worried that there would have been some degree of mess. And you would have thought that potentially I had raped you. But that content of skin against skin in that area was being, as we can see, it wasn't me trying to have sex with her.

• 29:55Speaker 05

  I'm not fully convinced that you didn't have sex with me.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  I guarantee you 100%, that didn't happen.

• 30:03Speaker 05

  What was your intent? Why did you take the pictures? If you didn't get any of my genitalia?

• 30:10Speaker 03

  They were just, they were pornography.

• 30:14Speaker 05

  So in what way were those like pornography for you?

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Sorry, I had a tough time talking about this and staying on top of it. Going into the greater issue of pornography. Like, if you go around to computers, go door to door, start pulling computers apart, you'll find pornography on most of them.

• 30:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, hopefully not the person's sister-in-law, but, you know.

• 30:38Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:40Speaker 05

  Why did you keep them?

• 30:42Speaker 03

  There was a window of time where I went back and looked at them.

• 30:46Speaker 05

  Okay, when you, after you masturbated, where did you, um?

• 30:53Speaker 03

  On you.

• 30:54Speaker 05

  Okay, so that would be in the pictures.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:00Speaker 06

  You could tell in Justin's mind, by not having sex with her, he didn't rape her. But sexual assault is a very broad definition. I think that whether or not he had sex with her, the not knowing for that many years is what made it so horrendous. And the fact that in his mind, he was justifying it to her by saying, well, but I didn't have sex with you. I didn't cross that line.

• 31:25Speaker 05

  Okay, um, did you do anything else to me? Like, like, did you go down on me?

• 31:34Speaker 03

  I did not touch or see your genitals.

• 31:37Speaker 05

  Well, you did see it because you took off my underwear.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  No, I.

• 31:42Speaker 05

  You removed my underwear.

• 31:44Speaker 03

  I know, but that was a closed leg, sliding them down. That wasn't, I never positioned you in a way that I could see.

• 31:50Speaker 05

  Because I definitely came to for my shorts and underwear coming off. You said, we're gonna like, let it all right out right now. She don't wanna re-traumatize me.

• 32:03Speaker 03

  I, I have no mental images whatsoever of your genitalia.

• 32:11Speaker 05

  But then you like, made sure that my, and you don't have a mental image of my vagina.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  I don't. I never saw it. I'm just saying, there's gotta be something in you that no one's ever told.

• 32:24Speaker 05

  Well, based on your track record.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  I could have done anything I want.

• 32:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 32:30Speaker 03

  You genuinely cared.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, we're family, so there's that.

• 32:36Speaker 03

  So I had those pictures for a while afterwards.

• 32:40Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  I was always disappointed that I didn't have a picture of your vagina. But I was never willing to position you to get one.

• 32:51Speaker 05

  Okay, well, 30 pictures, that's a lot. Um, so tell me what was in more of that?

• 33:00Speaker 03

  I took a picture of, um, you on your side with my penis close to your face. But I never touched it with it. I wanted you to not even know that anything had happened. Does that make sense?

• 33:19Speaker 05

  No.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Can you understand that I would walk into that and hope that I could take pictures of you? Go through the evening and have you wake up the next day and never know that any of it happened?

• 33:29Speaker 05

  Well, of course you'd want that, you know?

• 33:33Speaker 03

  If I had sex with you, you definitely would have known that, don't you think?

• 33:38Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  I think what's gonna happen here is you're gonna have to obey anything to know whether I can do the truth.

• 33:48Speaker 06

  His tone does change. It's like he's frustrated that she didn't just forgive him immediately. And, and again, I think that comes to the self-serving part. The meeting was for him. It wasn't for Vienna. He wanted her to accept his explanation and forgive him and come for family Christmas.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  No, when I look at the future, when I look at your family and my family, your parents and all of that, that's what's at stake right now.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  Vienna collects herself. She's almost done working through the list of questions she wrote in her notebook.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  Is there anything that I'm not asking and you're not disclosing? That you could share with me?

• 34:29Speaker 03

  No reason for me to disclose this. But I took pictures of you at other times.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  Just like that, another count of voyeurism. He took pictures of her through her bedroom window.

• 34:42Speaker 06

  Wow, like, yeah, no, okay, that's, that is another charge. Another step towards getting some justice for Vienna.

• 34:50Speaker 05

  So how many pictures of me have you or did you have?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Eight, 10 pictures. They were blurry. They were good quality. But the attempt was that I did.

• 35:01Speaker 05

  Okay. How many occasions did you do this on?

• 35:06Speaker 03

  Four.

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 35:09Speaker 06

  Very nonchalant, and, and I think that's the disturbing part. He had been invading her privacy and her bodily integrity for so long. And yet he was just, like, it was no big deal because the pictures were blurry.

• 35:26Speaker 03

  The greater issue, the bigger issue is that. I think our, our society is so twisted right now of the way we objectify women. We allow pornography and all that happens and we're all offended. And then we say, but you can't objectify it.

• 35:46Speaker 05

  I feel that it's pretty unfair for you to kind of like blame this on porn. And like, you took my first sexual experience from me. But yeah, I am not the girl that I was at 20. Yeah, so, I mean, I'm gonna have to think about all this.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  I don't wanna preach to you. But think about it both ways and see what gives you peace. If I'm telling a lie or if I'm telling the truth, which one resonates with you? It's not any worse if I had sex with you. You already think I did, so.

• 36:24Speaker 05

  He's huffy. He's like, well, you're gonna believe whatever you're gonna believe, so like. He's trying to be on like his best behavior, but there's a part of him that's like a little mad that he didn't like close the deal. I'm not gonna just be like, oh, hey, yeah, sure, see you at Christmas. Okay, well, I think that we'll leave it at this.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Vienna gets up from the table, walks over to the bar.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  I just need a paper and my teeth.

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 05

  What are you saying?

• 37:05Speaker 00

  Oh, just over here in the corner. She goes straight to the bathroom.

• 37:15Speaker 05

  Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Oh, dear. Oh, dear.

• 37:23Speaker 00

  Vienna washes up. She takes off Agent Layla, puts back on Vienna. She takes the elevator. She opens the door to the hotel room full of cops. They can't talk to her yet. She's still being recorded.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Everything's mic'd, right? You can hear him ripping it out of the purse. Trying to get that thing off. And her sister is emotional. She's emotional. I'm emotional. Like, it was like, that was the longest 15 seconds of, that I can remember for sure. Trying to get that thing off.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  Time now is thirteen forty hours.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Vienna looks around the room. Their eyes tell her everything.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Her coming up, I cried. She literally took her life back in her hands. And watching her transform during that scenario, it was her doing it, not me telling her to do it. I'd done so many things in my career that, but seeing this and just seeing how that impacted her, I think it, yeah, it affected me in a way that I wasn't used to.

• 39:01Speaker 06

  It was just that the moment of, wow, like, you did it. We did it. It happened. And just, there wasn't a dry eye in that room, I don't think.

• 39:15Speaker 05

  I just remember feeling like, oh, wow. They like, they like really believe me now. Like, I got the confession. Like, he said it. And just their awe and like, whoa. Yeah, like, this really happened.

• 39:34Speaker 00

  Vienna is proud of herself. And she needs to catch her breath.

• 39:40Speaker 05

  So I go back home after this, back to like, normal. Like, my kids home from school, being like, hey, Mom, like, this is what I did today. And me thinking like, oh, guess what I did today?

• 40:07Speaker 00

  Sergeant Joelle Lachance heads back to her small town detachment. Her plan worked. She's got the recording. The whole case hinges on it. And now Vienna knows as much as she ever will about what Justin did to her that night.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  There was something Justin said that won't matter to a judge, but it really bugs Vienna. Just before they wrapped their conversation in the airport lounge, almost like he was waiting for his chance, Justin tells her one more thing. And this isn't about Justin. This is about Vienna's sister, Sunny, and Vienna's mom.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, I know that your mom and your sister both know that I took pictures of you.

• 41:02Speaker 05

  My mom was never told me that.

• 41:05Speaker 00

  Justin pulls out his phone.

• 41:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, he showed a picture of himself, my mom, my oldest sister, standing in front of the Christmas tree, like, tears in their eyes, or like, you know, that looking of like, that looking like reconciliation.

• 41:26Speaker 01

  Did he tell her?

• 41:26Speaker 05

  So it was Christmas time?

• 41:28Speaker 01

  It was Christmas Eve.

• 41:30Speaker 00

  Christmas Eve, 2014, right after Justin's affairs. That was the Christmas where the Luke family divided. Sunny, Justin, the mom and dad, together wrapping presents. Shaughnessy and Vienna off on their own.

• 41:45Speaker 05

  And you told them that night?

• 41:47Speaker 01

  I still, what did Justin say he did?

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Ask your mom.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  She doesn't know a lot of details about Bozey and the masturbation, all that. She knows I took pictures of you.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  Naked?

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Not the detail.

• 42:06Speaker 05

  Like, how do you not ask every single question of, okay, well, what are these pictures? What's happening in these pictures?

• 42:17Speaker 00

  What this means is that seven years earlier, Vienna's own mother could have played the detective. She could have asked the questions instead. She could have used the vulgar words, pinned Justin down to get the truth. Not only has Vienna had to do that work herself, she's had to live for seven extra years with the feeling of not being believed. How could a mother not demand answers?

• 42:43Speaker 04

  What did she assume in that moment? They were glamour shots of her? As a mother, you're hearing that and you don't, you have not a further question for them.

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Next time, on the final episode of Agent Layla, the case finally reaches court. Will a judge make Justin pay for what he did?

• 43:02Speaker 04

  If he gets off with house arrest, I'll be like, what's the point? Like, there's no consequence.

• 43:08Speaker 00

  And Vienna's commitment to tell the truth tests her family.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  There's nothing more like life-giving than just being like, hey, I get to tell the truth. Not to spite anyone, not to like, force anything, not out of revenge, but out of just like, owning my life.

• 43:38Speaker 00

  Agent Layla was produced in consultation with Vienna Luke and Shaughnessy Luke. The series is written and reported by me, Jodi Martinson. Sophie Woodruff is associate producer. Jeff Turner is our senior producer. Mixing and sound design by Graham McDonald and Julian Yuzi Ali, with additional support from Evan Kelly. Anna Ashite is our coordinating producer. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager. Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Personally, Agent Layla. Or you can binge the whole series by subscribing to our CBC Stories Premium channel on Apple Podcasts.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  Just click on the link in the show description. If you've liked this episode, please share it with your friends. That's the number one way people find out about good podcasts, and it would mean a lot to us.