Pod Insights Personally Creation Myth, Episode 8: Yes About this episode When Helena was still married to David, she lived through something she doesn’t often revisit—it was too big, too scary. But now she’s ready to talk about it with two friends who were there: Chris and Bernadette. They are a generation older and do not have children. Together, they finally answer the question. What does purpose look like without kids?
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Hi, I just had to tell you that I think your podcast has changed my life.
0:06 Speaker 01 Season one of Sold a Story hit a nerve. It was about teaching kids to read.
0:11 Speaker 02 We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation.
0:15 Speaker 01 Now we're back with a new season. This time, we go beyond reading.
0:19 Speaker 00 I've literally been told by my district that I should not be teaching math. I should be facilitating math.
0:26 Speaker 01 I'm Emily Hanford. Go to your podcast app and follow Sold a Story.
0:31 Speaker 03 This is a CBC Podcast.
0:42 Speaker 04 I'm 42 now. That means, if nothing goes wrong, that I'm halfway.
0:51 Speaker 04 And I don't want kids.
0:54 Speaker 04 What do I want?
0:57 Speaker 04 Well, I want the second half of my life to be bigger than the first. I want to stop living with one hand on the railing. I want to get off the couch, get out there, say yes. And I know I better get going with this new start.
1:18 Speaker 04 But how? I've done it before. Started over in San Francisco and New York. But my sister, in her message, reminded me that there was a third time.
1:36 Speaker 04 It's a story I rarely share. It happened so long ago. It has little to do with my life now.
1:44 Speaker 04 But what if I'm wrong? What if what happened in San Luis Obispo has everything to do with my life now?
1:54 Speaker 04 So in this last episode, that's the story I'm going to tell, together with the two people who are a part of it, Chris and Bernadette.
2:17 Speaker 04 Hello. Hi. Chris? This is Bernadette.
2:23 Speaker 04 I'd met Chris and Bernadette through a mutual friend not long after I moved to the US. They were about a generation older than me, 79 and 63. They lived in LA but spent summers in upstate New York. So, one weekend, Brendan and I drove up from the city to go see them. The crickets were happy, there was a breeze, I could almost smell the peach trees. Maybe we could sit outside. Then Chris came out of the house. Hi. It's a little hot. Oh, you look great. It was hot. So we made our way to Chris's writing shed.
3:04 Speaker 04 Ooh, I like that. Chris cleared some papers and books off the table, moved her electric bass out of the way. Then we sat down.
3:15 Speaker 04 Chris and Bernadette did not have kids. What they did have was a life that made me want to pinch myself. Chris was a retired documentary filmmaker, one of the first women in the business. She'd worked in Alaska, China, Brazil, Afghanistan, under the Taliban, you name it. Bernadette, who was Belgian like me, was a psychiatrist, who also happened to know a lot about Italian literature and queer history and dolphins and so much else. Both of them wrote books, played music, curated film nights for their friends. And they were always ready to help, whether it was a friend trying to escape a war-torn country or a neighbor with a broken heart.
4:00 Speaker 04 And they'd helped me when we barely knew each other. It started with a day we all remembered.
4:13 Speaker 04 I'm Helena de Groot and from CBC's Personally, this is Creation Myth.
4:28 Speaker 04 The day we all remembered was a Saturday nearly a decade ago. I'd only been in the US for about a year. I was still married to David. We were still living in San Francisco.
4:43 Speaker 04 On that day, David and I had set out to go see these new friends of mine, Chris and Bernadette. They had rented a house in Ojai, in the middle of the orange groves, and invited us, plus a bunch of their other friends, to spend the weekend. We'd cook, eat, sit in the garden or by the fireplace, talk, read. No real program, just time together.
5:10 Speaker 04 David and I were driving there when the fight started. It was hot in Southern California, even in January, and the air conditioning wasn't working, so we were both sweating. I can't remember my exact words, but it had to be about San Francisco. I hated that place. David slammed his palm against the steering wheel. His face was red, his jaw clenched. I'd never seen him so angry. Suddenly, he swung the car onto the shoulder and got out. He started pacing. I begged him to come to the passenger side of the car. I didn't want him to get hit.
5:53 Speaker 04 But he just waved his hand as if to make me disappear.
6:02 Speaker 04 Was he going to leave me there, on the side of the road? I didn't think so. But could you really know someone after barely one year of marriage? Just to be safe, I stayed in my seat.
6:23 Speaker 04 After a few minutes, David got back in the car. And without a word, he merged onto the road.
6:36 Speaker 04 This was not the first fight we had about San Francisco. I wanted to move. He refused. I got more and more resentful. He spent longer and longer hours at the office. We had not been on any excursions together lately. So this weekend in Ojai with my new friends, Chris and Bernadette, I hoped would be a way to reconnect.
6:59 Speaker 04 And now neither of us was saying a word.
7:07 Speaker 04 Forty minutes later, we arrived at the place. I was nervous. I barely knew them and I'd never met their friends. But maybe just being among other people would smooth things over between David and me.
7:23 Speaker 04 David had a different idea.
7:26 Speaker 04 He waited till I got my bag out of the trunk. Then he started the motor again and drove away.
7:33 Speaker 05 And you arrive, David dropped you there like an old suitcase and left.
7:40 Speaker 06 And I remember you came into the kitchen. I think you were in tears. But you entered into this place where there were all of our friends who were a generation older than you were. And everybody was sort of like, oh, my goodness, of course, come here. And you just sort of landed in this warm bath of, you know, older people who were like, ready to, you know, let's help Elena. I mean, I think all of us have been through that at some point in our life. So we all said, oh, I've been there. Let's rally the troops.
8:14 Speaker 04 Bernadette told me that many of those people had come from other countries, from Brazil, Colombia, Latvia. They'd all done that, moved, started over. They knew how hard it was.
8:26 Speaker 05 But you knew us a little bit. You didn't know these other people. What was that for you?
8:32 Speaker 04 I mean, it's exactly like you said, Chris, like it was a warm bath. There was literally a hot tub. Do you remember that in the garden?
8:42 Speaker 04 And there was something completely nonjudgmental. Nobody was fussing over me. Nobody was treating me like a little porcelain doll who had to be glued back together like immediately. There was a lot of space for me to feel my feelings and also just connect with anyone in any way. If I wanted to talk about David and how hard it was to move, I could do that. And if I just wanted to talk about like, how do you cook your eggs? Like, I could do that. And I just felt like, again, because you were, not all, but a lot of you were a generation older, I did have the feeling like there was a path for me.
9:26 Speaker 04 There were many paths because all of you had taken different paths. I just couldn't see mine.
9:36 Speaker 04 Was I really leaving David? Where would I even go? Belgium made the most sense. But I didn't want that. It had only been a year and a half since I'd blasted the news that I was moving to America to everyone I knew, my friends and family, my boss, my colleagues at the public radio, the waitress at the nearby café. I was not ready to go back home and admit that I'd failed. At the same time, I had no idea what to do instead. But that day, I knew. I had to leave San Francisco.
10:20 Speaker 04 I didn't want to leave David. But if he wasn't going with me, I had to go alone.
10:32 Speaker 04 But I wasn't sure where. I didn't know America. Ilay was the only place where I knew people. Chris and Bernadette.
10:44 Speaker 04 At the house in Ojai, one of their friends, the man from Latvia, was sitting on the couch by the fireplace reading a book. I took out my phone and joined him. Then I opened Craigslist. It was clear right away that I wouldn't be able to afford living anywhere close to Christian Bernardetz, whose house was a block away from the beach. But I could live downtown or in the east for pretty cheap. Right there on the couch, I made the decision. And then I kept going before I could change my mind. I knew enough about LA to know that that place was all about cars.
11:27 Speaker 04 But I had never gotten my license. When people asked me why, I'd say something about Belgium and its amazing public transport. But really, it was fear. How often had I seen skid marks and pictured the driver, white-knuckled, braking so hard the rubber on their tires had melted, slamming into the guardrail or killing another human being? But now I pushed those thoughts away. I needed to keep it moving. So I Googled. How to get driver's license California? I decided to go somewhere besides San Francisco or LA, somewhere small, somewhere I could get to by train.
12:11 Speaker 04 I was flying high on my own momentum, making decisions one after the other. Bam, I'm leaving David. Bam, I'm moving to LA. Bam, I'm learning how to drive. Bam, how about a place called San Luis Obispo? I didn't want to waste more time. So when one of the people at the house in Ojai offered to drive me to the nearest station, I decided to go straight there.
12:38 Speaker 04 I'd found a hostel where I could stay for free in exchange for cleaning and baking pancakes every morning. I asked if there was a chance I could be in a room by myself. They said, no, unless I wanted the garden shed. It really was a garden shed, dusty, spiders. But I hung up a string of Christmas lights and made the upper right corner of the mattress into a shelf for the two books I'd brought and my journal. Almost the entire time I was there, it rained. And on the thin wooden roof of the shed, it was loud. But I felt sheltered. There was the rain, and here was the little shed, and I was in it.
13:24 Speaker 04 It wasn't fancy, but it was mine.
13:30 Speaker 04 Now, all I had to do was learn to drive. I looked in the phone book and called the first number I found. When I asked the man what he thought the shortest time would be I could get ready for the test, he said, 10 days. That seemed not safe, but also exactly what I wanted. No time to think. So I told him, let's do it.
14:01 Speaker 04 The next morning, I made pancakes for the guests, and then my instructor arrived, and I got in the car.
14:09 Speaker 04 He seemed to be in his early 70s, white hair, tan, wearing a shirt with the sleeves rolled up. From the moment I got in the car till the moment I got back to the hostel, he talked about snorkeling, about archery, about Tai Chi, where I could find wild celery and sage, what the best way was to catch a crab. You want to use raw chicken as bait.
14:34 Speaker 04 He even taught me the secret to a long life. Never stop moving and never strain yourself.
14:43 Speaker 04 He also told me that he was a retired stuntman, one of the first Asian-American stuntmen in Hollywood. I could see it. He still had a swashbuckling way about him. But he also had another side. He didn't know what to do with the small acts of rebellion of his teenage daughter, I was guessing from his second marriage. So he would ask me, "You've been a teenage girl. Tell me, what should I do?"
15:13 Speaker 04 But what I remembered most was how much he believed in me. And he acted as if this plan, to get my license in 10 days, was perfectly reasonable.
15:26 Speaker 04 He started me in traffic. "Go ahead, cross the intersection." I told him, "Absolutely not." But he reassured me. He had one of those special cars, so if anything went wrong, he would just grab the wheel and use his pedals, and we'd be fine. Then the light turned green. I felt unsteady, and my hands were clammy. But I went. He told me to keep driving. After a while, he said, "Turn right."
15:59 Speaker 04 It was my first turn ever. I took it too slowly, then too fast, and also too wide. But I was relieved to see the street we were on. Quiet, residential. Ours was the only car that moved.
16:17 Speaker 04 Once I was there, I felt confident. This was easy peasy.
16:25 Speaker 04 It started raining. My instructor showed me how to turn on the windshield wipers, and I tried out the different speeds. The mountains were right in front of us. He told me to drive to the end of the street. I looked at the clutch, then down at my feet. When I looked back up, there, as clear as in a children's book, was a giant rainbow.
16:55 Speaker 05 That's wonderful. I was curious when you described this, interestingly, stuntman putting you in the middle of the, you know, traffic, who believed in you and pushed you. I don't know, I'm curious what it did to you.
17:13 Speaker 04 I thought about the moment I crossed that intersection. I'd been so terrified that the sounds around me had seemed warped, as if I was underwater. A few minutes later, when I saw that rainbow, I started laughing and I couldn't stop.
17:31 Speaker 04 I wanted to tell David so badly, show him that I could be out in the world too, adventuring, because that's what I had longed for when we got married, that with him by my side, I could become just as daring as he was. And he was not at all that person.
17:51 Speaker 05 So I think when that stuntman put you in the middle of the traffic, that's what you had come to the States for.
18:15 Speaker 04 On the last day, I had driven my instructor's car to the DMV testing site. There, a woman with a clipboard had gotten in next to me. Afterwards, I had received a piece of paper with a light blue stamp. It did not look official, but it was. The state of California deemed me fit to drive.
18:40 Speaker 04 I packed up my stuff at the hostel and took the train back to San Francisco.
18:46 Speaker 04 Now I needed a car. I didn't know anything about cars, but before I had time to worry, I saw one for sale on the street. It was cheap. I called the number. The owner suggested a test drive. I got behind the wheel. He sat in the passenger seat. As soon as I started driving, he gripped the side of the car. From the corner of my eye, I saw that he glanced over at me, confused, but he said nothing.
19:17 Speaker 04 I tried to pay attention to what the car felt like. Was it a good car? I didn't know. I handed over the check.
19:29 Speaker 04 Then I went to our apartment. And while David was at work, I stuffed everything I owned in a suitcase and two plastic bags. I left behind the keys.
19:42 Speaker 04 Now I had to do the driving.
19:46 Speaker 04 I found the on-ramp and got on the freeway.
19:52 Speaker 04 Then I got off the freeway.
19:56 Speaker 04 I didn't understand. I was following the directions exactly.
20:02 Speaker 04 I tried again. A third time.
20:08 Speaker 04 Then I had the realization. Oh, the moment I get on it, I have to change lanes because this on-ramp lane becomes the exit lane.
20:17 Speaker 06 It's hilarious. It's hilarious. It's wonderful.
20:20 Speaker 05 It's very fine.
20:21 Speaker 04 Yeah.
20:26 Speaker 04 Now I was on the freeway.
20:30 Speaker 04 I'd decided to do the six or seven hour drive in two days so I could take a lot of breaks. I'd go to a gas station and just stand there, breathe.
20:43 Speaker 04 Then I'd get back in the car. A death machine, I was well aware. So I didn't even turn on the AC or the radio because who knew what would happen if I took my eyes off the road for even a second?
21:01 Speaker 04 I spent the night at the same hostel in San Luis Obispo. Most of the same guests were still there. They asked me what I was doing, what that was like. And I told them. It's like a Buddhist death meditation.
21:21 Speaker 04 That meditation, Buddhist meditation is.
21:26 Speaker 04 I was not an expert, but I understood the concept as a practice where you sit down and tell yourself, until you know it in your bones,
21:38 Speaker 04 you will die. Your time is short and precious, and you better be present with the life you are here to live.
21:50 Speaker 04 That night, I slept like a rock. When I woke up, I had to remind myself where I was. I was in a hostel in San Luis Obispo. I had left my husband.
22:05 Speaker 04 I was driving to LA.
22:08 Speaker 04 I tried not to think about the day ahead, but it wasn't that far anymore.
22:14 Speaker 04 And there were people waiting for me.
22:17 Speaker 04 Chris and Bernadette.
22:21 Speaker 07 Hi, I just had to tell you that I think your podcast has changed my life.
22:27 Speaker 01 Season one of Sold a Story hit a nerve. It was about teaching kids to read.
22:32 Speaker 02 We have gotten this wrong in New York and all across the nation.
22:36 Speaker 01 Now we're back with a new season. This time, we go beyond reading.
22:40 Speaker 00 I've literally been told by my district that I should not be teaching math. I should be facilitating math.
22:47 Speaker 01 I'm Emily Hanford. Go to your podcast app and follow Sold a Story.
22:53 Speaker 04 I had put the address in Google Maps, and for two days, I had followed the voice.
23:00 Speaker 04 Suddenly, I knew where I was. Chris and Bernadette lived at the bottom of a hill, a block from the ocean. And I was on that hill, and I saw the ocean.
23:14 Speaker 04 As I kept driving, it didn't look like I was going down, but like the blue, blue ocean was coming up to meet me. And there was their house.
23:28 Speaker 04 Do you remember anything from me arriving?
23:31 Speaker 06 I just remember that great admiration for the fact that you had bought that car and learned how to drive in no time flat, and now here you are in Los Angeles where you were going to stay. It was just, I was just like, wow, wow, she could do anything.
23:48 Speaker 04 But when Chris saw my fourth-hand Toyota Camry, she said, oh, boy, and called her mechanic. It wasn't good. In fact, I should not have been driving that car at all. That's why it was cheap. I panicked when I heard what fixing it would cost, but good people were helping me keep it going, keep me going. Chris and Bernadette said they were glad they could help. The image from just two weeks earlier, me arriving at the rental in Ojai in tears, David driving away, was still fresh on their minds.
24:24 Speaker 05 I see you, I see him, I see the car leaving. This kind of abandonment, but it was also a birth. And though you were, you know, toddler was the car, but you were on your way.
24:46 Speaker 04 That night, I slept on the couch at Chris and Bernadette's. Then they asked around and found two dear friends who were happy to let me stay in their spare room while I looked for a place of my own. I also needed a job. Not a radio job. I couldn't afford the nonsense trajectory where you spend a few months or a year working for free or almost free. I needed a job job. In college, I'd worked at a restaurant as a waitress, not a line cook. But that's what this ad was asking for, so I applied. Once I knew the owner better, I asked, why did you hire me? I had zero experience. But she just said,
25:33 Speaker 04 you look like someone who could figure things out.
25:38 Speaker 04 That's what I looked like? It was not how I'd felt. But maybe I had to stop getting distracted by how I felt and just push through. So I did. I learned the routine at the restaurant, found a place to live. And when one of my roommates knocked on my door after my shift and said, "Hey, you want to check out this thing?" Some museum, a cool ruin, a new taco stand, really, anything. I didn't say, "Maybe some other time." I put on my shoes and went.
26:13 Speaker 06 There was something you said about saying yes to everything. And it reminds me very much of this close friend we have here, who lost one husband and then met another partner. And after 10 years, he died recently. And we always ask her, "How are you doing?" And she says, "What I was taught the last time it happened is I say yes to everything."
26:41 Speaker 05 Wow, that is so scary. But I think she's right. It was very important when she said that. And one of the factors to make you live a longer life is to have social connections.
26:58 Speaker 06 Which brings me to my point that in two hours, I'm going to try to convince my wife here to go play miniature golf in our little village because it's going to be the nice three-letter world called fun. And I'm going to go get my putter. And I'm going to insist that Bernadette, for her social connections, at least come to one hole.
27:17 Speaker 05 I think you're totally off subject.
27:30 Speaker 04 A few months after my move to LA, David and I started talking again. He wanted me back. And to prove that he was serious, he quit his job in San Francisco and I rented a room not far from me.
27:47 Speaker 04 Two years later, we moved together to New York. I started over again, but this time I knew that the way to start over was to say yes. I said yes to every networking event or party I could find, to every recording gig. And when some of my favorite podcasts offered me a job, I said yes.
28:12 Speaker 04 I was happier than I'd ever been, but not even because he wanted a child.
28:20 Speaker 04 And I said no louder and louder and louder for so many years. But I think the moment where we were no longer together, I had this vertigo almost, like, I've said no for so long. What am I saying yes to? You know, like, I'd sort of forgotten that saying no to something means saying yes to other things. But I had no idea what. Like, what do you think I'm already saying yes to? And what do you think I could potentially say yes to? Like, how could I get better at this thing that is very scary, you know?
29:05 Speaker 06 Well, I think you have said yes to curiosity. I mean, you're wide open in the subjects that you introduce us all to through your podcast, of poetry, and not just poetry, but people and new ideas. You already said yes.
29:24 Speaker 04 Again, I didn't see myself as someone who said yes to things. Chris and Bernadette had just seen me at my bravest. But that was then, a phase when I had no other choice.
29:37 Speaker 05 It's interesting because you speak of these faces, but I've seen you all along. I mean, I don't feel you're a different person.
29:47 Speaker 06 You know, I'm thinking back on my own case, where at the age of 37, I had this biological clock that was tick, tick, tick. And I considered, since I was single, that I had to do artificial insemination. I had to adopt. I went through all the things. I was obsessed by it for a couple of years. And then when I decided that I just couldn't do that as a single person, I went about my life.
30:14 Speaker 04 And all that energy, curiosity, and drive Chris had put towards maybe having a child, she put towards everything else: the movies she was making, the music she played, the books she wrote, the people she loved, and the people she had yet to meet, like me and many others. And I think that's also like the most remarkable thing about the both of you. You know, like you don't have kids, but you have adopted so many, right?
30:45 Speaker 06 That's true, actually.
30:46 Speaker 05 There's a bunch of younger people who asked us if we'd be their godmom or aunties. And it's great because they come fully formed and generally very interesting. We don't have all the trouble, right? And that's quite remarkable. And as I told you, it's not that I didn't want kids, but it was more complicated for all kinds of reasons. And looking back, I'm like, wow, you know, all these things I did professionally, and I probably would not have been able to do them. But I love these, you know. I don't know, do you say adopted? When it's us, the younger, adopt the older one. But anyway, we chose one another. So, oh, privileged, oh, wonderful.
31:30 Speaker 05 Because what's been in my... more important than the gene transmissions, that seems so important to many, or the name transmission, it's the transmission of knowledge, of what you've learned.
31:48 Speaker 05 And being able to do it for people, be students, patients, friends, young friends, that's for me what brings me, you know, a sense of usefulness, I suppose, you know, what help us to grow. So, yeah, having these young people come in and say that, I feel very honoured.
32:11 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's having these, you know, like you, these adopted godchildren, which is such an honour, really. It's just so wonderful to have you in our lives. Is also a way that, at least in my case, I realise that I, being older than you are, have lived through some things that you may not know about. And it's not really that I've read about them, it's that I've actually lived through them. Things like, you know, for gay people in 1970, we had this extraordinary tales of coming out last weekend at the pub with the gay coterie in town. They were all probably your age. And it's really important to pass on what
32:56 Speaker 06 it was like back then. In Bernadette's case, things hadn't gone so well with her parents about coming out, but, you know, it was repaired later and they walked her down the aisle. Couple of the women said, "Oh..."
33:11 Speaker 05 Our wedding.
33:12 Speaker 06 Yes, at our wedding. And I was struck by somebody who said, "Oh, I'm so happy that there's a happy ending."
33:18 Speaker 04 And I think that's right. I mean, I think you are a living happy ending for me. You know, you're not an ending, but you know what I'm saying, right? Like, further down the line, and you made it towards extraordinary happiness. Like, your lives are such inspiration for me, you know, because you follow your curiosity. And you give so much love, you know, you get, like, I think that's what I always imagined having a child would be. You know, you give love and it connects you to what is, what is life about, you know? It's like giving love and hopefully receiving love.
34:00 Speaker 05 It's interesting, because while you're saying that, I think of my question earlier, what is Buddhist death stuff? And I see you in your car, you said it was a death machine? What is fantastic is, okay, you had this terrible, really physically dangerous and psychologically a journey. But then, look where we are now. All senses awaken. Totally aware of that, we ain't gonna die. And unless the carpe diem, not as a sentence on a wall, it's real.
34:44 Speaker 05 Let's be present, breathe, enjoy it. You know, I may even go to that ridiculous golf this afternoon, even if I don't like the social thing, because they're my friends. Let's just, you know, do this interview. And share, because through that and through what you do, it's transmission.
35:11 Speaker 04 I liked the way Bernadette said it. Transmission. That was what I did. I loved learning and I loved sharing what I learned. But it also felt small. I wanted a big thing. One overarching project, something that could tie it all together. Not a child, but something else. Then again, Chris and Bernadette didn't have that one overarching project. Their lives were made up of a million different ones. Including being there for other people, people like me. And they had seen me grow, find my way. And now my adoptive aunties were proud as peacocks.
35:54 Speaker 04 I could see how that could feel meaningful. And I was looking forward to the day where I too could play that role for someone younger. Then I realized I'd already done that for my nine-year-old neighbor. He was 12 now and in a much better spot. He'd been to therapy, he was making dance videos with his friends, and he'd written a book that was going to be illustrated and published about eyebrows somehow. His mom beamed when she showed me. This kid was going places. And he wasn't my kid, but when I read the eyebrow book or watched one of his videos on TikTok, I was proud.
36:40 Speaker 04 I hadn't done what I did to find meaning. He needed help, and I had given it to him. But maybe that's how meaning works. You didn't chase it. It came to you.
36:55 Speaker 04 All you could do was notice. And I hadn't noticed because I'd been busy, busy telling myself that my life was not big enough because I kept myself small, too small to really, truly live.
37:15 Speaker 04 But maybe that was just another story and a story you can change.
37:23 Speaker 06 That's very interesting. It's what you're doing in this podcast. You're retelling to yourself the story of your life.
37:33 Speaker 04 Chris was right, and I wasn't doing it alone. Everyone I talked to had helped. My mother, my sister, my oldest friend Sigrid, my newest friend Sam, my friends who had kids, Joshua, Jocelyn, and Sarah, my friend who was about to have a kid, Elise, the poet, Amma, the kind stranger, Alejandra, my beloved Brendan, and now Chris and Bernadette.
38:01 Speaker 05 It is a co-creation.
38:04 Speaker 04 That was 100% what I was gonna say. I really feel like I'm rewriting my story together with others. We are co-creating my life.
38:21 Speaker 04 Thank you both so much. You are just terrific.
38:25 Speaker 06 Yes? Oh, yes. I love that recording.
38:30 Speaker 06 Wonderful fun. This has been a blast. Oh. It's fantastic. It connects us much. What were you?
38:41 Speaker 04 We hugged each other. Then Brendan and I got in the car. As we drove off, Chris and Bernadette stood waving.
38:56 Speaker 04 By the time we re-entered the city, it was dark.
39:01 Speaker 04 We were stuck in traffic. I looked up at the building closest to us.
39:08 Speaker 04 Few people had curtains. A couple was watching something blue on a giant TV. A man was pacing. A dog sat with its face pressed against the window, looking at the street below.
39:22 Speaker 04 As far as the eye could see, there were little lights, offices, apartments, lives.
39:31 Speaker 04 My own life was just like that.
39:35 Speaker 04 A pinprick in the dark.
39:40 Speaker 04 But it was big enough.
39:43 Speaker 04 It held everyone and everything I loved.
40:20 Speaker 04 Creation Myth was written, produced, hosted, and sound designed by me, Helene Aldechrot. My story editor and senior producer is Veronica Simmons. Editorial sound design support by Brendan Baker, who also mixed and mastered the episode. Special thanks to my friends Bernadette Grosjean and Christine Burrell for seeing me, adopting me, and showing me that you don't need to have kids to build your own family. The team behind Creation Myth further includes Anna Ashite, our coordinating producer, Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak are our executive producers, Tanya Springer is the senior manager, Arif Nurani is the director and Lesley Merklinger, the executive director of CBC Podcasts.
41:03 Speaker 04 Our podcast art was designed by Erin McCluskey. Our cross promo producer is Amanda Cox and our publicity consultant is Maggie Taylor. Our video producers are Tamina Aziz and John Lee. And since this is the last episode, I'm going to take a moment to thank some of the other people who helped me make the show. Prepare for a bathtub quantity of gratitude, Mosh. Thank you to Samin Nosrat for giving me the courage to even dream this far, to Choki Ayansin for cooking up the pitch party at Resonate that made the dream real, to Ben Rieskin, James Kim and Juleika Antigua for judging, and to Steve Humble and Meg Lindholm
41:48 Speaker 04 over at VPM Media Corporation for their financial support. Thanks to the good folks at the Tribeca Festival, Davy Gardner, Alison Morgan and Jenny McGuire for allowing me to add the coolest laurel I have ever seen to the show's artwork. Speaking of artwork, Erin McCluskey, you took my jumble of words and made them into an image that is so me, it felt like you ran my soul through the scanner. Thanks to everyone I interviewed who I couldn't include in the show but deserves a whole new season. Sophie Schell, Aya Labanier, Sarah Brook, Amanda Youfile Summers, Chenjerai Kumanyika, Fiona Mason and Joby Thoril, Maya Segura and Damian Licks, Kerry Downey and Erica Bernaby,
42:32 Speaker 04 Michael Fagan and Virjena, Lizzie Stern, Rita Moyer, Cara Stewart and Phoebe Reinhardt. Thank you to everyone I did include in the show. Sigrid Melchior, Joshua Kaufman, Amma Kojo, Sarah Brook, Curtis, Brendan Baker, Alekhan Ramatoni, Elise Mendelson, Annika Van de Veld, Sam the DJ, Elisa de Groot, Jocelyn Takas and Taylor, Bernadette Grosjean and Christine Burrell.
42:58 Speaker 04 Thank you to my artist friends who gave me all kinds of advice, from how to write an ending to a story that's ongoing, to how to feed yourself while making the thing that feels more important than food. John Mallore, Sean Cole, Lucy Little, Chris Oak, Nicole Hill, Avery Trufelman, Ser Kevedo, Hannah Vanderland, and Seth Velis. Thanks to my Belgian friends and radio pals who helped me soft-launch the show, Ben van Albom of DS Podcast Festival, Wim Oosterlink of Drie Boeken, and Frick de Smet, Anna Israas, and Demende Bakker of Knack.
43:37 Speaker 04 And thank you, holy smokes, to the people at the CBC for saying hell yes to my dream and then gifting me that rare combination: full creative freedom and support.
43:51 Speaker 04 And now for the parts where words don't cut it. Thank you, thank you, thank you to my editor, my confidant, my therapist, doula, and now friend Veronica Simmons.
44:05 Speaker 04 And to Brendan Baker.
44:08 Speaker 04 Thank you for encouraging me to make stuff. So you play something.
44:14 Speaker 04 Tell me what key you're playing. You're playing in black and white.
44:21 Speaker 04 That's a key right now. You help me see that there are no wrong notes, as long as you keep playing.
44:41 Speaker 03 For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca/podcasts.
Previous Creation Myth, Episode 7: Orb of Calm Next What If Closure Never Comes? | From A Slight Change of Plans Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated