The Future of Iran: Restore the Crown or Start Over?? | PBD #725

Patrick Bet-David sits down with Amir Fakhravar and Allahyar Kangarlu to discuss the future of Iran after the IRGC, the possible regimes that could replace it, and what a collapse or transition would mean for the Middle East and U. S. foreign policy. ------ Ⓜ️ MINNECT WITH AMIR FAKHRAVAR: https://bit.ly/45saqQA Ⓜ️ MINNECT WITH DR. ALAYAR KANGARLU: https://bit.ly/46d9QGC 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 Ⓜ️ CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kSVkso ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4kSVkso Ⓜ️ PBD PODCAST CIRCLES: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4mAWQAP 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Speaker 00

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  You are a one of one? My son's right there.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 0:27Patrick Bet-David?

  So, we decided to do this podcast right now with everything that's going on in Iran. The president just finished what's going on in Davos. And the next thing you know, we're hearing about the ship that is on its way to, right next to Iran. Concerns have it that he may attack today, tomorrow, the next day, nobody knows. You're hearing reports from what Amir just told me this morning, the fact that the internet may be back up yesterday in Iran. A lot of videos are being released, people are seeing them, the numbers we're seeing is at a low 5100. A human rights organization yesterday reported 43,000 people dead and people in the streets are saying it's closer to 70,000. I decided to bring two different topics here, two different people with different ideologies when it comes down to the resolution,

• 1:12Patrick Bet-David?

  the solution of what could happen here. Because right now, the debate is, okay, so let's just say the president does what he does. Who should replace? There's a lot of people are saying it's gotta be Reza Pahlavi. He could be the transitional leader to go back and do that. And one of our guests today, one of them, Dr. Ken Gourle, he's not just anybody in this space. He's a nuclear physicist, he's a professor, he's at Columbia University. His background is very, very extensive. When he'll break it down and he believes that's the right move. On the other side, Amed Fagharvar, which him and I have spoken many, many times over the years. His background, he used to be part of the team working closely with Reza Pahlavi. He'll tell the stories.

• 1:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Here's as we're going through it, he was a guy in 1999 protesting in Iran as a student. So imagine everything that's going on, 1999, 27 years ago. He was a young man himself, trying to protest to make sure Iran becomes free. Goes to jail, is in prison, is tortured, eventually finds a way to escape, comes to America and has played a role in educating a lot of people on what's going on in Iran as well. They're gonna disagree on the solution, but they're gonna agree on who Islamic Revolutionary Guard is. With that being said, it's great to have the both of you guys on the podcast today.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Thank you for having us, and it's an honor.

• 2:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, it's great to have you as well.

• 2:30Speaker 04

  Thank you very much for your invitation.

• 2:32Patrick Bet-David?

  So if you don't mind for the audience, we have a lot of things to go through, okay? What should happen? What is the solution? What could happen? Uh, uh, uh, what, what, what is really going on in Iran that the rest of the people don't know about? If you don't mind just starting off by sharing your background, I gave you a brief synopsis of your background. If you don't mind doing it yourself, it'd be great. Let's start off with you.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's, uh, to make a long story short, I have, uh, since I was sixteen, seventeen, at senior high school, um...

• 3:03Patrick Bet-David?

  In Iran?

• 3:03Speaker 03

  In Iran, yeah. That was the first time I was arrested. Um, I was the, um, speaker of my, um, my school, and then, uh, the first speech I had, I was elected by the students to be their speaker. The first conference, first speech, they arrested me because I said, uh, why the government is not using, uh, the new talented, uh, minds to fix the problems? And because of that, they accused me of being against the regime, and at that time, I didn't know what they are talking about. Then, uh, yeah, I had my first experience of solitary confinement at that age,

• 3:46Speaker 03

  and it just lasted hours. At the midnight, they released me. But, uh, then I went to medical school. I was arrested, inside the medical school in Urumia, and, uh, I experienced months of torture. Uh, I couldn't believe that. I, maybe I was nineteen, twenty at that time? And, uh, then, uh, by the MOS Ministry of Intelligence. It was, um, Hafthodopang, it's nineteen ninety-six, I guess, the Clinton.

• 4:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Hafthodopang?

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, the...

• 4:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Hafthodopang?

• 4:19Speaker 04

  Two years before the revolution.

• 4:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Right, right, two years before revolution.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Not the, not the witch revolution.

• 4:24Patrick Bet-David?

  But Hafthodopang, you're saying Iran, Hafthodopang, okay, so yeah, Bill Clinton.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I said, I said nineteen ninety-six. And, uh, uh, yeah, after that, um, it, a lot happened, and, uh, they, um, they...

• 4:38Speaker 03

  Islamic Revolutionary Court in Urumia gave me three years' prison. And then they sent me in exile to Bushir University, from the north of Iran to south of Iran. And then, totally nineteen times, I was arrested for fourteen years when I was in Iran, since sixteen to thirty, when my fight was happening against this regime. I wrote several books.

• 5:08Patrick Bet-David?

  When did you leave Iran?

• 5:10Speaker 03

  No, when I was still, I wrote a couple of my books when I was in prison.

• 5:13Patrick Bet-David?

  In Iran?

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Yes, in Iran. And then, for the, the book called Inja Chahnis, This Place Is Not A Ditch. For that book, I was nominated to get the Paulo Coelho Prize. And immediately when it was published to the newspapers, that, the morning after, the MOIS again, they came to my house, they arrested me. And, under torture, I, at least fifty bones in my body have been broken. And then, two thousand four, Amnesty International released a statement

• 5:54Speaker 03

  and called me the first witness of white torture in prison. I was under that type of torture, psychological torture, by IRGC in their branch at Isra Tabad Prison, the center of IRGC in Tehran. And it was a lot, a lot happened to me. And finally, after five years and three months of prison, I had eight years' prison and I had two open cases. I had death penalty on the top of my head because of being infidel and the enemy of God and these type of things, then...

• 6:35Patrick Bet-David?

  At that time, what is your faith? What do you believe in at that time?

• 6:37Speaker 03

  I was Muslim.

• 6:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You were Muslim?

• 6:39Speaker 03

  Back then, I was Muslim. And I was secular, but I was Muslim. And then, in two thousand six, I escaped prison, evin prison, with the help of...

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Believe it or not, Defense Department. Mr. Richard Pearl, who was, who became kind of my godfather in Washington DC. He helped me to escape from prison with the help of some of our friends. I want to name Manda Shahbozi and say hi to her wherever she is right now. And during the Bush administration in 2006, I came to Washington DC. I started my journey here. Then I started the campaign for oil sanction. It was not popular when I was talking about it back then in 2006. Oil sanction and clean up the voice of America. These were the two big campaign I started. And then, yeah, I met President Bush. I met then later President Trump.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  I was invited to speak at President Trump's house. And I gave him a signed copy of proposed draft constitution for future Iran, which me and my team in National Iranian Congress, we drafted. I created the National Iranian, I founded the National Iranian Congress. And a lot other things I have done. And the last two things, which I'm very proud of those two. It's the book, Comrade Ayatollah. In 2016, I published that book. It became bestseller inside Iran. It was sold 3 million copies in underground market in Iran. And it changed the course of kind of history of looking at Iran. Because in this book, I revealed Iranian Supreme Leader himself,

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Ali Khamenei, was the agent of, the trained agent of KGB. I guess you had Reza Pahlevi here on your show. And he mentioned Khamenei was at the KGB's agent in Patrislam Mumbai University. He have seen it in my book, Comrade Ayatollah. And then my last book came last year.

• 8:46Speaker 03

  It's called the spirit of the constitutional law, which is about the future of Iran. Comrade Ayatollah was about the past, to know our past, what was that, what happened. And this one is about the future, which we are going to talk about it.

• 9:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Fantastic. How about yourself, Doc?

• 9:02Speaker 04

  I had a much less glamorous life than Emi did. I grew up in Iran and did my undergraduate in physics in Aryaner University of Technology. Today it's called Sharif University. It's a premier university in Iran of science and engineering. Then I came to the United States. I did my PhD in nuclear physics. And then I became a professor of physics for a few years. And then, after a few years of working in physics and doing research in physics, I moved to Ohio State University, where I completely switched from physics to medicine. But I never forgot the stuff I learned in physics and brought all of that technology

• 9:42Speaker 04

  and the learning of how to look into mysteries of nature into physics. So I worked in the Department of Radiology at Ohio State University for eight years. And there, in 1996, thirty years ago, we built the world's most powerful MRI machine, operating at a field of eight tesla, that could look into the human brain and see fine structures that had never been seen before. And then developed a technology called functional MRI that, you know, you can take images from the brain and apply a lot of physics and mathematical modeling and construct the human mind from the brain images. And that proved to be extremely useful

• 10:26Speaker 04

  in understanding the inner working of how the human brain, actually how the human mind works. And then I was recruited to Columbia University, Department of Psychiatry. And I've been there for the last 25 years. There, we are using that technology, the technology of using FMRI or functional MRI to construct the human mind from the brain and then compare the mind of a person with psychiatric disorder with a normal person and find with pinpoint accuracy exactly what part of the brain is not doing its job. And then you can treat regions locally rather than global. You know that one of the biggest problem we have in today's medicine is that all medicine is really global.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  You know, if you have a headache and you take a Tylenol, the Tylenol doesn't just go to your head. It goes from your head to your toe, only a small portion of it goes to your head. And what we call side effect is the effect of medicine where it's not supposed to go. So we are, we have developed in the last 20 years, we have developed the technology that we are offering it in our clinic in New York that deals with psychiatric disorders at a very, very local fashion. And we are treating patients with basically no side effect. You know, you know that the psychiatric drugs have a lot of side effects. So that's my scientific life. But then I've been very active.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  Ariyamah University or Sharif University, where I did my undergraduate in physics, is the premier, not only premier science and engineering university, also a premier political activist university. When I was in that university, basically, half of the university students were supporters of one armed group, leftist armed group, Marxist leftist armed group. And the other half were the supporters of an Islamic armed group.

• 12:16Patrick Bet-David?

  The leftist armed group was called what?

• 12:19Speaker 04

  The Marxist leftist was called Cheikh Ayyad Fadhiy Chal. And Islamic leftist group was called Mujahideen Chal. And even-

• 12:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Mujahideen, today some would say M E K.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  M E K.

• 12:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  That's right, that's right. And even back then, you know, in all the debates in the university, I was pro-monarch, pro-economic development, against the leftist overthrowing revolutionary ideas. I was telling my friends, you know, my classmates, that, you know, going for revolution, there's no guarantee that you would be able to get your ideals. I know that, you know, all your students, you are, you are very idealists, you love the country, but this is not a good approach to, to achieve your goals. And the best way to achieve greatness for Iran is really going through gradual economic development. I was telling them that, you know, basically, there are two approaches to taking a third world country to a first world country.

• 13:15Speaker 04

  Either you go through economic development and after you approach a certain degree of development, then- Political development, which we call democracy, will come at the end of political development. That's one approach. The other approach is start right off, start with political development and start with democracy, and then expect that the economic development will pursue political development. And I was telling them that if you showed me one country in the world that went through the second path, the path that you guys are pursuing, then I will follow you. You cannot find, you know, you had your ideals with the countries in the former Soviet Union, you know, Russia, Romania, the so-called Eastern Europe, and none of them achieved the ideal societies that they wanted to achieve.

• 14:00Speaker 04

  But compared to that, look at the first model. Every country that is going from the second world and the third world to the first world, like South Korea, like Singapore, like Malaysia, like Turkey, like Indonesia, they go from a third world country to a first world country through that model. Economic development first, political development next. And even today, I think, not only just for Iran, for all the countries who are seeking, you know, construction or ideal society, that is the right approach.

• 14:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Economic development first, then political change, whatever it may be. Okay, so that's great. Now, the audience kind of has an idea of your background. Thank you for doing that, both of you. Let me ask another question. So 1979, the regime falls. The Shah leaves. Khomeini comes in. We've all seen the video when he comes and plane lands. They had to eventually move him, go from a different direction. Why is it that Mohammad Reza Ashraf Alavi was able to rule Iran for 37 years? Khomeini comes and takes over. And for 47 years, nothing's changed. From 1979 till today, there's been many, many, many opportunities to change. Obama yesterday on a podcast came out,

• 15:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, I don't know if you guys saw this clip or not. Yesterday on Pod Save America, Obama said he wishes he would have done something else with... By the way, if you haven't seen this, the 2009-2010 movement. This is a comment he said... When is this clip, Rob?

• 15:32Speaker 05

  October of 2022. It started resurfacing yesterday.

• 15:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so there's another clip of Obama, but this is the one that we can go to as well. He said he wishes in 2009-2010, he would have intervened, right? He would have gotten involved. He would have done certain things. He says he didn't. Big mistake that he made in his career. Okay. Well, let's go to today. Seventy-nine, today, many chances, nothing's happened. This is the closest we've ever been, from seventy-nine till today. What's different about today and why has nothing happened last forty-seven years? I'll come to you first.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Um, Patrick, honestly, I don't want to say nothing happened, because in nineteen seventy-nine, this is, this is the people, I'm sure your audience, they don't know, and they will be surprised about that. In nineteen seventy-nine, ninety-eight percent of Iranian society, they were considering themselves as Muslim.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  Ninety-eight percent.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  Today, with all the survey we are doing, it's not

• 16:39Speaker 03

  easy to do the survey and know what is happening, but we can have the idea. Ninety-five percent of the people in Iran today, they are saying we are not Muslim anymore. It's a huge change, from ninety-eight percent saying we are Muslim in nineteen seventy-nine, and today ninety-five percent saying we are not Muslim.

• 17:00Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you know that number?

• 17:00Speaker 03

  We are doing a lot of surveys.

• 17:02Patrick Bet-David?

  But how do you know that number? The number ninety-five percent? I know it's a big number.

• 17:06Speaker 03

  It's, we are, we are our surveys, we are doing the surveys, and the survey are telling us.

• 17:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's doing the survey?

• 17:11Speaker 03

  It's we, in our organization, because it's impossible, in Iranian society right now, regime is not, doesn't let any survey to be done.

• 17:18Patrick Bet-David?

  I just want to make sure when the audience is watching this, when we're saying these numbers, we know, according to a survey that you've done, the numbers are now ninety-five percent you're saying don't support Islam anymore.

• 17:29Speaker 03

  It's, it's not one survey, it's the surveys, at least.

• 17:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 17:33Speaker 03

  Hundreds of surveys.

• 17:35Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a massive turnaround, why is that?

• 17:37Speaker 03

  That's, that's the biggest achievement of our nation.

• 17:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 17:42Speaker 03

  Iran is the first nation in Islamic world which is coming out of this virus. The, up to now, the, maybe our activists, political activists, either they didn't know what is exactly the problem? They thought the problem are some politicians, the problems are the hardliners, or reformists, or this, or that. No, the problem is Islam in Iran.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  I'm not saying that. Montesquieu said that in his book, The Sprit of the Laws. That's the part, even at law school, they are missing that part of Montesquieu's statement. Montesquieu says Iran was shining in the world as Persian Empire until Islam came to Iran. When Islam attacked Iran, Iran went down and never could come up. It was 276 years ago, I guess, when Montesquieu said that in his book, and everybody ignored that. And right now, the new generation in Iran, they realized, yeah, the problem we have in Iran is Islam.

• 18:57Speaker 03

  We had this problem during the Shah's time. It's the 120th anniversary of Iranian constitutional revolution. And the first constitution was drafted in Iran. Islam was the official religion. And then Islam was the source of all the laws. And we should have 5 grand Ayatollah to look at the, all the laws passing by the Congress to make sure that it's not against Islam. Islam was the problem. And now, during this protest,

• 19:34Speaker 03

  that's the reason the new generation, they burned more than 700 mosques, Islamic seminaries, and everything smelled Islam. They burned more than 100,000 Quran all over Iran.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  That means the generation, they passed it. We need it. The Islamic Republic of Iran was a religious dictatorship. That's the most dangerous type of dictatorship. It was not easy to get rid of them. And I have some issue, I want to let Dr. Kangal, with his brilliant mind, to talk about that. But I want to just add this one. In 1979, Patrick, it was not a revolution. To me, based on my book, Comrade Ayatollah, based on 700 pages of documents and facts, the thing happened in 1979 in Iran was a Russian coup d'etat.

• 20:37Speaker 03

  It was different factions have been working together to bring down the Iranian king. And it was the job of Soviet Russia. KGB played a huge role to bring mullahs in power. And Iranian core and supreme leader Ali Khamenei, who was trained in Patrislum Mumbai University, KGB's training center, since 1964 to 1968. And many other mullahs who are in power, they have been trained.

• 21:05Patrick Bet-David?

  That's documented, those four years.

• 21:06Speaker 03

  That's documented. Even I sent a team to Patrislum Mumbai University in Moscow. I sent a team from Texas State University to that university in Moscow in 2012. They brought the document for me and they brought the list from inside the school. They brought for me the list of Iranian graduates. And supreme leader's name was there. Mahmoud Abbas' name is there too. The Palestinian Liberation Organization movements. Yeah, it's, it's Soviet Union have been involved very much in Middle East, in Africa, in South America. And Iran was their biggest achievement to bring down Iranian king, who was the greatest ally and friend of United States.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  They scored that and they made Iran a minion for Soviet Russia. And that was not a revolution. It was Soviet Union. And it was not just the mullahs. It was some other help from inside the palace. I don't know if we want to talk about it or not, but let's pass it. I want to, Dr. Can, get me to talk about that.

• 22:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me stay on this and I'm going to come to you, Doc, as well. Is when you're saying that, the mosque, it's important for the audience to see this. Rob, if you want to pull this up. The Iranian government themselves have reported that 60 mosques, 61 mosques were torched in Tehran alone during the unrest.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Just in one city.

• 22:36Patrick Bet-David?

  This is just one city. This is not the entire country. This is just one city and you're seeing these pictures. Now imagine what it is across the country. The numbers you see are staggering. So there's credibility to what you're talking about. But again, going back to it, since 79 till today, why has the, you know, the regime been able to hold so much control and the Iranian people haven't been able to go back to being free again?

• 23:01Speaker 04

  I'd like to look at this problem from 35,000 high.

• 23:08Speaker 04

  I want to compare Christianity with Islam. Christianity is a religion that's 2,000 years old. Islam is a religion that is only 1,400 years old. So you can say that Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. When did Christianity go through Reformation? 600 years ago, right? So it seems to me like when religions become 1,400 to 1,500 years old, they come out of adolescence and they become mature. They realize that because of the fact that religion is a base of psychological comfort for the masses, it doesn't mean that they are entitled to political power.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  You know that Reformation in Europe didn't just happen. It happened after the Thirty Year Wars. After the things much worse than what's happening in the Middle East happened in Europe. The Catholic Pope was ruling Europe with iron fists, just like Ayatollah Khomeini and Khamenei in Iran. They were torturing people, they were massacring, burning people at stake, and all of that. And all of that, all of that atrocity that was done in the name of God, but using the political power, eventually brought Reformation into the Church itself, and that's what Martin Luther did, and the rest is really history.

• 24:30Speaker 04

  So I think that Islam also has arrived at a point that it became a good candidate for political power. Iranian Revolution was the birth prank of Reformation in Islam. In my opinion, Iranian Revolution was inevitable, regardless of who did it, regardless of the participation of, regardless of Guadalupe, regardless of the American position on it, all of that had a little part in it. But the story is much bigger than 1979 and 1357, bigger than Ayatollah Khomeini, bigger than Khamenei, bigger than all of those people. There is a force that in an evolutionary manner, for 1,400 years, have been brewing, just like Christianity in Europe.

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Eventually, it arrives at a maturation that has to basically

• 25:22Speaker 04

  disqualify itself from political power. That's what happened in Europe. Eventually, Christianity became a matter of personal belief, and political power became decoupled from religion, right? What we call separation of church and state. Where do you think these people came up with this idea of separation of church and state? Separation of church and state in Europe became inevitable. Otherwise, Europe would have been burning for the following 600 years. And Europeans decided enough is enough. And the only way, the only culprit they found to stop the burning and stop the mayhem in Europe was separation of church and state. Decouple the political power from the personal conviction that we call religion. Islam is going through the same maturation, the same adolescence, the same reformation

• 26:08Speaker 04

  in the Middle East, and it's been going on for the last 47 years. You're saying, you're asking us why Islamic republic is lasting so long?

• 26:20Speaker 04

  I will ask you the exact opposite question. Actually, reformation in the world of Islam is happening much faster than it happened in Christianity. Historically, you know, after Islam invaded Iran and conquered Iran and ransacked Iran for 200 years, the silence of 200 years that prevailed Iran, the glorious Persian Empire that was in existence for 1,000 years prior to the invasion of Islam, for 200 years Iranians were forbid of practicing their own religion of Zoroastrianism and speaking the language of Farsi, until two centuries after this invasion, Iranians began to revolt against the Arab conquerors.

• 27:02Speaker 04

  And it took us from 200 years after invasion of Islam till 1979, before Islam became a candidate for political power in the modern world. And the fact that Iranians not only didn't speak Arabic...

• 27:20Speaker 04

  They also invented their own branch of Islam called Shiites. So invention of Shiites was a sign of revolt by Iranian people against the Arab conquerors, whose religion was Sunni Islam. Okay, so this is a very long historic event that's been brewing in that part of the world for 1400 years. And it manifested itself in the 1979 revolution. But prior to that, I mean, something that we refer to as the Golden Age of Islam, between 9th century to 12th century, where all the glorious things happened in Islam, where Baghdad was the center of scientific.

• 28:01Speaker 04

  Baghdad was today's Silicon Valley and today's Paris. You know, all the philosophers, all the mathematicians, all the astronomers. You know that, you know, if you study astronomy, if you look at the map of the stars, a vast majority of the stars' names are Arabic. All the astronomers and astrophysicists know that. And that Golden Age of Islam was because Islam was going through the same evolutionary path that I told you Christianity also did independently. And Iranians played a huge role in that 300 years, so-called the Golden Age of Islam. And even today, Iranians and Iran

• 28:46Speaker 04

  are playing a huge role in bringing reformation in Iran and in the world of Islam. Iranian revolution was an outcry for reformation that needed to happen in the world of Islam. Unfortunately, we had to pay the price for it. Iran is the only country in the history of mankind which is going through two revolutions at the same time. Revolution of reforming Islam and revolution of bringing democracy into the Islamic world. So a political revolution in parallel with a religious revolution. No country has ever done that at the same time. Germany did it, not at the same time, about 100 years apart. And look how sweetly Germany was rewarded. Germany is...

• 29:30Speaker 04

  The beating heart of the European economy, not only beating heart of the European economy, but also all the Enlightenment movement, Kant, Montesquieu, and all of these people, John Stuart Mill, all of these guys who came up with the idea of democracy and separation of church and state, they basically came from Germany. So Germany had the same similar achievement as we did, except that they did it almost 100 years apart. Iranians are doomed to do both of these things at the same time. This is, in my opinion, one of the reasons, probably the only reason, that's why this regime has lasted this long. And at the end of this regime, whether it happens next week or next month,

• 30:14Speaker 04

  courtesy of President Trump, I think Iran is going to achieve something historic, monumental, reform Islam, and establish a democratic society within the world of Islam, which is not in conflict with the personal conviction of people, which is religion.

• 30:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me ask you this on this question. So the two revolutions that you're saying are happening at the same time, is it by the same group or two different groups?

• 30:38Speaker 04

  Two different groups.

• 30:39Patrick Bet-David?

  So can you explain both groups that are causing the revolution?

• 30:43Speaker 04

  So the so-called reformists in Iran, they are doing the job of reformation of Islam. They are so attached to Islam and their conviction that they, at the same time that they like democracy and they would like to make Iran a democratic society, but they don't want to abandon their religion. So those people will eventually look at the religion and see the part of the religion, the verses of Ghoran, which is incompatible with today's world, and they throw them out or they kind of leave them silent, verses of Ghoran, and take the rest of Ghoran, the part that's not really incompatible with modern world, and call that their religion, and they create a religion very similar to Protestantism, right?

• 31:27Speaker 04

  And then the rest of the society, which sees this amazing force, economic force, political force, environmental force that is basically destroying Iran, the rest of the society will go down the path of democratization of Iran. And I think I can see that these two paths are happening at the same time. Sometimes they are helping each other, sometimes unfortunately they are hurting each other. But eventually they have no way other than cooperating with each other and bringing, making Iran the first country in the Islamic world that brings true democracy, that becomes a role model for the rest of the Middle East and Islamic world.

• 32:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. So for the average person that's trying to follow what you're saying, could it be that there are two different revolutions, but some of the people from here and here are on the same page on the other side of the movement?

• 32:19Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 32:19Patrick Bet-David?

  They are. Okay. So who is on the reformist side? You know, if you, bring it to us in a way that is chewable for American people. Is it the Democrats and the who, you know, if there's a way for you to bring, is it the, you know, certain religious sects that are unifying together to go against it? Who, who would it be?

• 32:40Speaker 04

  You know, there is a principle, there is a rule, there is a constitutional article in Islamic Republic's constitution called "Velayat Faqih," or jurisprudence of the, of the clergies, of the ayatollahs. Religious jurisprudence, basically. That's how I can translate the "Velayat Faqih." So "Velayat Faqih" basically means that the highest authority in the religion of Shiite, not only he is qualified to occupy the position of the highest quality of the religion, he is also entitled to highest political office in the land.

• 33:22Speaker 04

  So there are people within the clergy, within the Islamic establishment, who are opposed to that idea. They want to separate the jurisprudence, the position of the jurisprudence from the position of the political leader. Ayatollah Sistan in Iraq is one of them. He's not very vocal, but he is opposed to that. There are many ayatollahs in Iran who are also opposed to this mixing of the jurisprudence, the position, the highest authority of the religion and highest authority of the politics. Ayatollah Muntaziri, at the very beginning of the revolution, was one of those people who opposed, even though ironically, he came up with the idea of Velayat Fagh'i. But later on, when he saw Velayat Fagh'i

• 34:05Speaker 04

  in action, he became opposed to it. But he became subject to the wrath of Ayatollah Khamenei. And he died in anonymity and under house arrest. Basically, he spent his last 10 years of his life under house arrest. Even today, there are clergies or civilians, Iranians with very strong conviction on Islam, that they are convinced that there should be a separation of church and state. Political power should be completely decoupled from religion. Because if they insist on keeping them together, they won't be able to establish the caliphate in the Middle East. They would achieve exactly the opposite.

• 34:48Speaker 04

  They will destroy Islam in Iran if they insist on the unification of the jurisprudence and the political leadership of running society. So this is not something that Iranians invented. I told you that 500, 600 years ago, it happened in Europe. It's a natural evolution of religions who try to capture political power.

• 35:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it.

• 35:12Speaker 04

  They.

• 35:12Patrick Bet-David?

  And what are you yourself, by the way, just out of curiosity?

• 35:15Speaker 04

  Well, I'm a physicist, so I don't believe in God.

• 35:18Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't believe in God? Okay, so you're, that's great to know, that's it. Where you're leaning, because you're neutral, you're right here, you're not making anybody happy.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  No, no, no, no.

• 35:26Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're not an agnostic, you're an atheist?

• 35:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 35:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, fantastic, okay. That's good to know. Rob, can you do me a favor? Let's bring it up to now. President Trump yesterday is being interviewed. I believe he's on Air Force One, and he's being interviewed, and he's being asked about what's going to happen with Iran. Here's his response. And I want to get your answers on should America intervene or not? And if no, or yes, why? Go ahead, Rob.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  We have a big force going toward Iran. I'd rather not see anything happen, but we're watching them very closely. I saw 837 hangings on Thursday. They would have been dead, every one of them would have been hung. This is like from a thousand years ago. This is an ancient culture. Very smart people, by the way. But it's an ancient culture. Eight hundred and thirty-seven, mostly young men, were going to be hung on Thursday. And I said, if you hang those people, you're going to be hit harder than you've ever been hit. It'll make what we did to your Iran nuclear look like peanuts.

• 36:34Speaker 06

  And an hour before this horrible thing was going to take place, they canceled it. And they, they actually said they canceled it, they didn't postpone it, they canceled it. So that was a good sign. But we have a, an armada, we have a massive, we have a massive fleet heading in that direction. And maybe we won't have to use it, we'll see.

• 36:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so should, should the US intervene, or should they not? Why, why not? Amir?

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Definitely, it should happen. And we are not talking about boots on the ground. Nobody's talking about that. But attacking the institution of this regime, think the same as 12 Days War. Israel could just continue that until the end of that regime. When President Trump, at the 13th day, just called Benjamin Netanyahu and asked him to, for the ceasefire. For the ceasefire decision, it was just President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Iranian regime was not involved at all. And President Trump decided to do that. And he mentioned that, that it's because they didn't want to see chaos.

• 37:48Speaker 03

  Our opposition should be ready to introduce the alternative. And we were not, I guess, ready to just give him, give President Trump a good option. And the options have been out. President Trump didn't like those options as alternatives. And that was the problem. And it's definitely US should go and hit. President Trump, when he was mentioning about 870 some people supposed to be hanged, and they didn't. The case is, I'm sure President Trump will get more information about that. We got it sooner because we are directly in touch with the people inside Iran. Our families, our friends are there.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  And we can get the information a lot faster than CIA even. And we know that all those people, most of them, they are already dead. They are dead under torture. They are not hanged. Regime said, okay, we are not hanging them, but we are killing them under torture. And they did it. And the number, 870 some people? We are talking about confirmed up to now, at least 70,000 people, protesters, have been killed in the street brutally. They were beheaded.

• 39:07Speaker 03

  They were shot in certain area, which those animals inside the IRGC and Beside, they wanted to torture people to death, to make sure they will suffer and die in the street. And we have seen a lot of these videos. The videos are coming right now. And I'm sure President Trump will get all the reports about that after he arrived from Switzerland. And his position will be a lot more stronger against that regime. All the equipments are there right now.

• 39:49Speaker 03

  And I'm pretty sure President Trump is going to hunt the Supreme Leader.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  And to destroy everybody who have been involved in that bloodbath, which is unheard of in human history. That level of brutality happened in just forty-eight hours, two weeks ago.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  And, yes, definitely, US should hit them. During the Midnight Hammer, it was amazing job of President Trump and US Army, US Air Force, the B-2 bombers, which President Trump loves those and have the

• 40:31Speaker 03

  model of it on his desk. And, yeah, we need something like that on Supreme Leader's bunker. And definitely, it should happen, and I'm sure Israelis, they are helping to locate Supreme Leader right now, to make American job a lot easier. And all the IRGC and Basij stations should be hit. The entire regime's missiles facilities all around the country should be hit. At the same time, and Israel said they are capable to do that, and I'm sure they are capable to do that with the help of US Army. It should happen, definitely. And it's going to happen. It's going to happen.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  We need to think about and talk about the next step, which in our organization, National Iranian Congress, for years, we have been talking about today and what should be next. But, Patrick, I want to go back just for briefly to be disagree with all the respect with Dr. Kangarlu regarding Islam. Islam is not reformable. It's impossible. To me, as an ex-Muslim...

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Islam is not a religion. Islam is a virus. It's a virus. You cannot go and negotiate with the virus and say, "Oh, okay, please, just kill little softer." And Islam has its own constitution. It's called Quran. The constitution, you cannot change Quran. The Quran is there. Islam is the religion, they are saying, to govern. Christianity is not like that. You cannot find any other religion to say, "We are here to govern." They are saying, "We are here to guide the people toward God." Am I right?

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Islam is the only one says, "We are here to govern." And look at Prophet Muhammad. They are calling it Prophet Muhammad, I'm not calling him. I want to use the word Charlie Kirk used for Muhammad. A pedophile, a warmonger, pedophile. That's his story. And they are saying Sunnah, Muhammad's Sunnah. What was the Muhammad's Sunnah? To killing everybody? To start killing from his cousins, his family members? Raping the girls at the age of six? They are saying, "Oh, that was not six, that was nine." Oh, just how shameless you are.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  And then to going and kill the entire Jewish population in a Jewish town called Yasreb,

• 43:27Speaker 03

  which they welcomed him. And then Muhammad, after killing all the Jewish, mass murdering them, then changed the name of the town to Madinatun Nabi. And they are doing exactly the same thing. They have done it then to Iran.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  With who? Ali have done it? The head of Shi'ism? I don't believe Iranian made Shi'ism to just bring some type of civil war inside Islam. No, Shi'ism, Iranian have been fighting with Islam all these last 1400 years. And let's go back to Montesquieu. That's the last point on this subject. Montesquieu said in his book, The Spirit of the Laws, he said, "We have three types of government." He said, "Either we have republic, or we have monarchy, or we have despotic." It's one of these three.

• 44:30Speaker 03

  Any governments in the world can be subject of one of these three. And Montesquieu said, "The monarchists in the world, he says, "The Christian Catholics, they are going for monarchy." Normally. It's in his book, The Spirit of the Laws. And he said, "Christian Protestants, they are going for republic." And you know, when he was saying that in his book, "We didn't have republic in the world." Forty years later, the first constitutional republic came up from a Protestant nation, America. And Montesquieu was right. And the third one, Montesquieu said,

• 45:15Speaker 03

  "Islam just brings despotic dictatorship." And he said, "You cannot fix it." Because Islam, in its own nature, is about dictatorship. And Montesquieu is talking a lot about Quran, about the way Islam teaches, and says, "It's impossible with Islam, you can get anything but dictatorship."

• 45:47Speaker 03

  These are part of the script of the laws that it's missing in all of our law schools. We should find out why, but that's true.

• 45:58Speaker 07

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• 46:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Where do you stand with this?

• 47:02Speaker 04

  I think the story of human beings is the story of life in nature. Nature is not hospitable to life.

• 47:13Speaker 04

  In this vast universe of ours, we still, and we've looked a lot, we still haven't found another form of life. So for all practical purposes, as far as we can see, we are the only form of life, at least in the Milky Way galaxy.

• 47:31Speaker 04

  And the reason for that, the reason why life is such an unlikely thing is because nature is not favored for the formation of life. Nature is very inhospitable to life. So we have to work against these laws of nature, which all are stacked against us from the environment. You know that, let me give you a simple example. The earth, the third rock from the sun, right?

• 48:00Speaker 04

  The sun is a furnace that's creating nuclear particles, right? The sun, what we call the sun, is made of hydrogen that is constantly converting to helium. Very simple. Two hydrogens combined make helium. In the process, they create light, which we get from the sun, but a lot of very harmful nuclear particles. The so-called solar winds, and they're all flowing towards the Earth. There is this little weak magnetic field that surrounds the Earth, right? These secret and hidden and invisible magnetic field lines around the Earth, they capture all these harmful particles that come from the sun,

• 48:45Speaker 04

  and they start circling around these magnetic field lines, and they're pushed towards the North Pole. And at the North Pole, they collide and they create what we call aurora. Aurora Australis in the south, in the Antarctica, and Aurora Borealis in the north. If it wasn't for the magnetic field lines, life would have never formed on this planet. So, life is a very unlikely, low-probability thing to happen. And humans, as they evolved on this planet, they had to put up with this unfavorable and inhospitable environment. One of the things that we had to put up with is, you know, in every human being, from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed,

• 49:30Speaker 04

  there are these three questions that are circling in our head. The three questions, they're fundamental existential questions. When I tell you those questions, you might say, "It has never occurred to me." But it's happening in the back of your head, and it guides everything in your life. Those three questions are: Where we came from? What is the purpose to life? And how's it all going to end?

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Different people come up with different solutions and different answers to this question, right? And these questions, we can go back 10,000 years, 100,000 years, and we can look into different answers that human beings have come up with. And they're wondering, what are we doing on this planet? We are constantly dealing with existential crisis. And religion is the best answer that human beings came up to give an answer to those three existential questions. Where did we come from 2,000, 10,000 years ago? The best question, the best answer they could come up with was, there must be a creator, because everything else that we see around us has a creator.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  This table was built by someone, TV was built by someone else. So based on a very primitive experience that we have in our life, we came up with the idea of the creator. So that's exactly where we were looking for a solution is where the problem starts. The problem, we basically switch, we trade one problem with another problem. So all religions really were, and I don't want to call it a miserable attempt, but a desperate attempt by human beings to answer those fundamental questions. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, they all came up with their own version of, there is this old man with the white beard in the sky who created the world, you know, out of six days,

• 51:23Speaker 04

  from the rib of the Adam and Eve, and all of that story, those stories. And so, but one thing that these religions had in common is that the source of right and the source of power is God. And anyone on earth who is entitled to power or captures power should have some kind of a relationship or some kind of authorization from him. So the source of God, the source of power was God, the source of right was God. This happened until the Reformation in Europe and what Reformation led into Enlightenment, Enlightenment led into Industrial Revolution, and then here we are.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  So in Enlightenment, these brilliant European thinkers like Kant and Montesquieu, they said, wait a minute, why should right belong to God? What if God didn't exist? Nobody has really seen this God. We have learned enough about human capability that we should really say "right belongs to humans, not belongs to God." The basis of democracy, liberal democracy, all the industrial progress, all the economic success is that. Where we went from "the source of power is God" and his representatives on earth are entitled to rule over the people's life,

• 52:47Speaker 04

  to this new idea that "right belongs to humans." The "right belongs to human" is at the basis of human right, democracy, and liberal democracy. What does liberal democracy? Liberal democracy means human beings are free. They have to be liberated from the constraints. From whose constraints? From God's constraints, because he is the biggest concentrator of human being. He is the one who is constantly limiting our freedom. He is the one who says, "The people who are serving me," the ayatollahs and the clergy and the pope and all of those, and the priests, "they have certain rights and they should have a certain position in society that entitles them to all the atrocities that they did during the Reformation

• 53:32Speaker 04

  and during the Pope's role in Europe and during the ayatollah's rule in Iran." So what Europeans discovered, that going from "the right belongs to God," to "the right belongs to humans,"

• 53:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What I don't want to do is I don't want to go too deep into religion. I want to stay on the topic of Iran.

• 53:50Speaker 04

  It is.

• 53:50Patrick Bet-David?

  If you want to go to the point of Iran, because the question was, "Should US intervene? Will they?" And then I know he kind of threw you off because he debated the religion thing. But if you want to stay on that topic, because then we have one hour left here. So I want to make sure we address those issues.

• 54:04Speaker 04

  Right. So the reason why I gave you this five-minute comparison between Christianity and Islam and the roots of how liberal democracies and democracy and the formation really happened in Europe and is happening in the Middle East now, I think the players in what's happening in the Middle East, they have no options.

• 54:27Speaker 04

  Ayatollah Khamenei has no option but continuing on his path. Because he received his authority and his mandate from being an ayatollah, the representative of God on earth. And if he switches side tomorrow, nobody believes that he believes in the human right and he is going to denounce his God. Because going from representation of God on earth to a liberal democrat, it means you have to first do one thing. What Amir already did, denouncing God, right? I guess you haven't denounced God.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  No, I love God.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  Right, he loves, he loves an imaginary...

• 55:03Speaker 03

  My religion is mathematics.

• 55:04Speaker 04

  That's okay.

• 55:06Patrick Bet-David?

  So both of, so you're an agnostic or you're an atheist?

• 55:08Speaker 03

  I, I, look, it's totally different story. Because it's the thing I'm telling you, if you ask Iranian new generation, most of them, they are saying, "Our religion is mathematics and we love God. We are not anti-God, we love God and our nation are searching for the next step, which it's a huge movement of converting from Islam to Christianity today in Iran. It's huge movement. And it's the entire nation, they are trying to find the next place they should be in. And yeah, a lot of my friends, entire my family, they converted to Christianity.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  And a lot of my friends, they are trying hard to save me and bring me to the world of Christianity. I love the message of Jesus because it's about love. It's all about love. What's wrong with it? And when you go to Islam, it's all about hate. It's all about killing. And that's the reason. But in general, yeah, I believe in Creator. I believe in a Creator who just wrote all these formula, beautiful formula of the...

• 56:21Speaker 04

  Physics.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  Physics and mathematics.

• 56:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  And to go back to the question, Tatsik's question about the US attacking Iran.

• 56:29Speaker 04

  So the reason why I told you all of that is because I think the US will attack. There is, basically, President Trump has no choice but attacking the Ayatollah. I gave you the reason for my declaration of the inevitability of invasion of the Islamic Republic from the historic religious evolutionary point of view. But there is another aspect to it, the international politics and the standing of the United States in the world and the conflict that the United States is having and is resolving with China and with the rest of the world.

• 57:08Speaker 04

  I think that election of Donald Trump was the best thing that happened to the United States. If it wasn't for his election, not only the despots of the world like Khamenei and Assad and Xi Jinping and Putin would have really eaten our lunch, but also that the United States, you know, we are a kind of an isolated island, two oceans between us and the rest of the world. The quality of life and whatever we have stood for and whatever we have achieved in the last 250 years would have vanished in a very short time.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  And if I get, I get a chance to, I'll tell you exactly how it would have happened if Trump was not elected and why the mandate with which Donald Trump was elected to office leaves him no choice but invading Islamic Republic.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  I want to add one more thing about the, about the why US should attack. And you mentioned about Khamenei, the supreme leader, is just getting the mandate from God. I'm disagree with that because Khamenei himself is not a real Ayatollah. He's not even a real Hujatul Islam. And he, he has a long history of doing a lot other things than, I don't know if you heard about that when he was 17 in Iraq, in Najaf. One of the Iraqi's parliament member, Fayyeh Sheikh Ali, he's a very, very well-respected parliament member in Iraq.

• 58:47Speaker 03

  He mentioned on his ex that Ali Khamenei, at the age of 17, was...

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Was a gay guy in Najaf. And then he said, "Yeah, the reputation of Islam is online." And they called the Farouk Sheikh Ali's grandfather, called the grand Ayatollah in Qum Seminary, and asked him to tell Ali Khamenei's father, "Please come and just grab your son, because it's the reputation of Islam is gone right now." Over here, the thing he is doing everywhere with all the Arab guys. But Khamenei was not at all a religious person. Khamenei is agent of Russia. He's an agent. Do you want to search the name Smith Hampston,

• 59:40Speaker 03

  the US ambassador to Kenya in 1988? If I'm not mistaken, I'm using just the memory, June 18, June, I guess, 11, 1988, he wrote an article for Observer reporter. That was the first article I could track. It was one week after Khamenei became Supreme Leader. And he said, "Ali Khamenei is a graduate from Patris Lumumba University." And he said, "We in the United States, we are in trouble." Because if he stays in power, Ali Khamenei stays in power,

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Iran will be the minion of Soviet Union. And we cannot do anything, because he is a trained agent of Soviet Russia. The first one mentioned Patris Lumumba University was Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. When he was 30, July 1979, a couple of months after Iranian so-called Islamic Revolution, Iranian coup d'etat, Russian coup d'etat.

• 1:00:51Speaker 03

  Benjamin Netanyahu had a conference. And in that conference, he brought up the story of Patrice Lumumba University and said the Russians, they are training the future world leaders. But they didn't know Iranian mullahs have been subject of that training. And because of that, Khamenei cannot say no to Russia. Until he is in power, everybody in Iranian politics, the both side, hardliner and reformists, they were in shock. They said it was a lot of opportunities. Obama wrote many love letters to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and asked him, "Oh, please, I want to be nice to you. Just come to the table, let's do this."

• 1:01:36Speaker 03

  And Khamenei just said no to all of it. President Trump, before the 12 Days War, wrote a letter to Khamenei with some respect to him and said, "You are a religious leader, let's sit and talk." And Khamenei said no, and everybody was surprised. Why he's doing that? It's a suicide, because US and Israel, they are going to destroy him. He cannot say no to Russia. Khamenei is the agent of Russia, and for sure, he should be taken out. If we want to see any change happening in Iran, the first step is to killing Ali Khamenei. Which is going to happen, I'm guessing, pretty soon.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  If we are at the 47th anniversary of this regime, it's February 11th, it's the 47th anniversary. How old are you? You are 47.

• 1:02:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Forty-eight, forty-seven.

• 1:02:30Speaker 03

  Forty-seven, yeah, you were born three months, four months before.

• 1:02:33Patrick Bet-David?

  October 1878, yes, revolution.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, before the... But, yeah, the 47th president of the United States, you mentioned that in one of your shows too, should put end to the 47 years of chaos in Middle East and in the world, created by the agent of KGB, Ali Khamenei.

• 1:03:01Speaker 03

  And it should happen. You know, the thing nobody knows. Khomeini was the first supreme leader. But the one who pushed to attack American embassy, there were two mullahs. It's in my book, Kamarahaytullah. It was Ali Khamenei and it was Musavih Khomeini. Both of them trained at KGB's Patrislam Mumba University. You know, who wanted to know what is inside American embassy in Tehran? It was KGB. KGB wanted to see all those documents there. Wanted to know from the newly created Islamic Republic, who are in touch with United States,

• 1:03:44Speaker 03

  because they wanted to destroy those network of Americans inside Iran. And that was KGB's job. Supreme leader should be killed as soon as possible.

• 1:03:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, killed, if somebody looks at patterns, you know, Trump killed Qasem Soleimani. Trump didn't kill Maduro. They just took him hostage. But you're saying Khomeini's preferences for him to get killed instead of, you know, done what they did to Maduro?

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  He should be killed, the same as, you know, I heard, I don't want to reveal it.

• 1:04:20Patrick Bet-David?

  What would happen if they kill Khomeini?

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  Oh, it will be the biggest celebration in Iran, in Middle East, and in Iran, yeah, all over the country. The people will go out, dance in street. And he killed millions of people in Iran. The people, the world, they don't know. When they are saying Iran, they think all 100 million Iranians, 90 million living inside Iran, 10 million in exile.

• 1:04:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:04:45Speaker 03

  They think we are part of this regime. No. 99% of, even more than 99% of the society, we hate this regime. We have been fighting with this regime all these years. The world didn't know. And right now, because of these protests, these brutal killing, finally, a lot of people in the world, they realize that. But that, what was the, that Pink Floyd?

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  Is it Pink Floyd? The Roger Waters?

• 1:05:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm, Roger Waters.

• 1:05:18Speaker 03

  He's the last person on planet.

• 1:05:22Speaker 03

  Who, I don't know how come he became that dumb to be the fan of Iranian Supreme Leader nowadays?

• 1:05:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, you're talking about the clip, Roger Waters on Pierce Morgan,

• 1:05:37Patrick Bet-David?

  defending and saying a lot of my friends, you know, want this thing to stay the way it is. Do you agree with him to kill Khamenei? Are you on the same page with Ahmed?

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  You know, I gave you a historic reason why the Iranian revolution happened and how it will end. I will give you an economic and geopolitical reason for that, too.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  Dr. Kangal, do you want to not go there? Because then I don't want to go there to that forbidden part that I'm talking about. It's up to you, up to you.

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  You know, I think the story is much bigger than Ayatollah Khamenei or Khomeini or Carter or Guadalupe. Story is far, far, far bigger. And the way it happened is because of the reasons beyond these people. And the way it will end is beyond these people. And it has some historic reasons and some reasons that I would like to I would like to kind of open in the next couple of minutes. So, the United States and the free world, you know, after we won the World War II, right? We won the World War II. And in the last 80 years after World War II,

• 1:06:56Speaker 04

  we've had a world order, the so-called international rule-based order. Basically, it's the international rule-based order that we, the United States of America, established that in Britton Woods in 1947. We basically, after we won the World War II, we called all the allies in Britton Woods, New Hampshire, and we told them, 55 countries, and we told them, "Look, guys..." Up until the beginning of this World War II, there was another big guy in the world, British Empire. From today on, we are the big guys. And this is the way we are going to run the world. The way we're going to run the world from now on is like this. We, the United States,

• 1:07:39Speaker 04

  we established security of the free waters, of the blue waters of the world, the security for trade. The US Navy and the US military will guarantee security of trade between the nations. The nations who are on our side will be, they don't need any insurance policies. They don't need to escort their merchant ships. We will provide that security with one caveat. You should be on our side. You cannot be on the bad guy's side. You cannot be on the Soviet's side. This is what's called Bretton Woods World, or World Order, or the post-World War II Order, or the international rule-based order. Whatever you want to call it. And from 1945 till 1990,

• 1:08:23Speaker 04

  when Soviet Union exploded, imploded and collapsed, this was the world order. And in the background of the world order, we had some kind of an undeclared relationship between the United States and Russia, between the free world and the Soviet world and the socialist world called the Cold War. The Cold War was something that actually we invented. We decided that we will never get engaged in a hot war with the Russians, with the communists. Instead, we are going to destroy them like this. We are going to impose a very expensive arms race

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  that is so expensive that the socialist economy cannot handle it. This was a brilliant move. We did that. And by 1990, when Gorbachev was the Secretary General of the Communist Party in Russia, that's exactly what happened. You know, in the last year of Gorbachev's rule in Russia, in the last year of the rule of communism in Russia, the shelves in the grocery stores were empty. It was an empire. It was a military empire. But it was an economic basket case. We did that with resounding success.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  So Soviet Union, our enemy disappeared. Between 1990, when Soviet Union collapsed, and 2010, in the 20 years. So prior to that, in the 30 years of the Cold War and the competition between the United States and Russia, we basically had a bipolar world. Two superpowers. America as the capitalist superpower and Russia as the socialist superpower.

• 1:10:16Speaker 04

  Between 1990 and 2010, in those 20 years, the world had only one power, one superpower. That 20 years, that two decades is called the unipolar moment. It's called moment even though it's 20 years because it's very short in the context of the history of mankind. In that 20 years, United States was the biggest honcho, the only superpower in the world.

• 1:10:40Speaker 04

  We didn't take advantage of that unipolar moment. What we did in that unipolar moment, unfortunately, George Bush, George W. Bush was our president. And he thought that since we are the only superpower, there is no Russia to constrain us anymore. We can just invade anyone we want. So we invaded Afghanistan and...

• 1:11:00Speaker 07

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• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  Terms apply. See visible.com for details. We invaded Iraq, and in both of those cases, we were extremely successful. In Abraham Lincoln, it's really ironic. Abraham Lincoln that's heading towards Persian Gulf today was parked by off the Gulf of Bahrain thirty years ago when Tomahawks were lopped by Abraham Lincoln and they destroyed the Iraqi machinery in ninety-three hours. That was a big show for the military industrial complexes and a big success for America, but a big defeat for democracy because of following reason. The Islamic Republic in Iran had two mortal enemies.

• 1:12:38Speaker 04

  Saddam Hussein on the west and Taliban in Afghanistan on the right. George Bush destroyed both of those enemies of the Islamic Republic and gave the Islamic Republic a mandate to rule unconstrained in in the Middle East. In the in the following twenty years after the war in Iraq and Afghanistan ended, the stocks of the Islamic Republic went through the roof. They started really projecting power, building Hezbollah and Hamas and the Houthis in Yemen and and basically destabilizing Iraq, preventing Iraqis from establishing the kind of democracy that the United States wanted to establish. And, you know, building this corridor between Iran and Iraq and Syria and, you know,

• 1:13:23Speaker 04

  feeding the Hezbollah with all kinds of powers, forty thousand, you know, missiles and basically threatening the existence of the Middle. All of that was the courtesy of the destruction of the Islamic Republic's both enemies on either side of the country. So you see, instead of using that unipolar window of opportunity to solve the economic problems of capitalism, and we had plenty of economic problems to solve. We did this on the one hand. On the other hand, we decided to help China. This this happened during Clinton. We decided to provide China with massive amount of capital

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  and flow of technology to turn China, a third world country, into the economic superpower that it is now. Both of those mistakes have come back to haunt us now. China, for a while, they played the game of being an ally and friendly and...

• 1:14:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Is your point here, what's your point here?

• 1:14:26Speaker 04

  My point here is that the reason why President Trump came to office

• 1:14:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  is because of this gigantic mistake that was done by Republicans and Democrats at the same time. And then, and the problem, the problem didn't really go anywhere, didn't disappear. Today, we have thirty-seven trillion dollars of national debt. We had one point three trillion dollars of trade deficit with our major partners. America was heading for a total collapse, for the edge of the cliff. And the American people realized that, they realized that, you know, they don't need Democrats or Republicans. They need a fresh blood, a fresh outlook in the White House. And that's why Trump was elected as president. So, Trump is, while he's solving those problems, the national debt, the tariffs,

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  the tariffs is a brilliant move to solve the trade deficit, the national debt, and all of that. But, along with his outlook to politics and international relations, came this irreconcilable attitude towards the enemies of the United States, small or large. So, when he identified Venezuela, Cuba, and Islamic Republic as the three countries that are aligning with China and Russia to compete with the United States and undermine the US economy. These countries that I just named, China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, and Islamic Republic, they have started a campaign of de-dollarization in the world economy.

• 1:15:59Speaker 04

  They want to do away with dollar and replace dollar with their local currencies, yen and rupee and real and all of that. If that happens, the economy of the United States will collapse. So, he has to combat that problem. The de-dollarization of China, Russia, Iran, and Venezuela and Cuba.

• 1:16:20Speaker 03

  And should President Trump kill harmony?

• 1:16:23Patrick Bet-David?

  That was a whole seven minutes, you still didn't answer the question.

• 1:16:26Speaker 04

  Well, it's not for me to say what...

• 1:16:28Patrick Bet-David?

  I know, but I'm asking your opinion. What is your opinion? I got a history lesson, but I want to know what...

• 1:16:32Speaker 04

  Unfortunately, I don't think President Trump will listen to me.

• 1:16:36Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not about the president listening to you. This isn't about the president. Audience is watching. We have you guys here. History lesson, I can go to History Channel and get it. If it's leading to an answer, doctor, I want to know about it. Do you think there will be intervention? Should there be intervention or no? What do you think? I want to get your opinion.

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  First of all, I don't think what you heard from me, you will get it from History Channel.

• 1:17:01Patrick Bet-David?

  To get it from who?

• 1:17:02Speaker 04

  You are not going to get it from History Channel. History Channel will give you the party line, not the analysis I just gave you. But, I think, I will answer your question like this. I think President Trump will do what you asked me. He's going to go after Khamenei. He's going to after the leadership of the Islamic Republic Revolutionary Guard, IRGC. He's going to go after the people who committed all these atrocities in the last three weeks, and he cannot not do it.

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  And since President Trump...

• 1:17:37Patrick Bet-David?

  He cannot not do it.

• 1:17:38Speaker 04

  He cannot not do it.

• 1:17:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Why can he not not do it?

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  He said that. President Trump just created the red line. It's not Obama. When Obama regarding Syria and Bashar Assad said, "That's my red line, don't cross it", and then Bashar Assad several times crossed that red line and nothing happened. President Trump, he's the man of his word. Everything he said, happened. President Trump, three weeks ago, told the Iranian regime, "If you kill any protester, I'm coming to punish you. I'm coming to help the people and rescue them", and they didn't kill one protester. They killed, at least up to now, 70,000 protesters.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  They shot 400,000 protesters, and right now, they have 3 million people under torture.

• 1:18:33Speaker 03

  That's, I guess, they passed a lot of red lines. And President Trump is the man of his word. And, you know, the amazing thing is...

• 1:18:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, is this 53 minutes ago? Or is this the one from 10 days ago? Right. Okay, that's from 10 days ago. Yeah, so, okay, so then...

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's exactly his promise.

• 1:18:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:18:52Speaker 03

  For this promise, he should go and...

• 1:18:54Patrick Bet-David?

  So then, here's a question. The question is, by the way, a lot of, there's, in Ameri-, a lot of Americans are gonna say, you know, "It's none of our business, leave him alone, we shouldn't intervene," you know?

• 1:19:04Speaker 04

  It is our business.

• 1:19:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, tell me why it is our business.

• 1:19:07Speaker 04

  If the United States doesn't get rid of the Islamic Republic in Iran, the Islamic Republic is in a position to play a role in that axis of evil. China, Russia, Islamic Republic, Cuba, and Venezuela. He already took care of Venezuela, there's a good reason. And he keeps talking about Cuba. And he doesn't talk that aggressively about the Islamic Republic, but I think he is thinking aggressively against Islamic Republic, because the stakes are high. If Islamic Republic as the major supplier of energy to China, and China in the last 30 years have been eating our lunch, if the United States, and President Trump

• 1:19:51Speaker 04

  has a very strong position on China. He knows he has to contain in China. Do you know where Abraham Lincoln came from? From South China Sea. Its permanent mission is in South China Sea, because we are trying to contain China. But one of the ways, actually more important than having Abraham Lincoln parked in South China Sea, would be to destroy the Islamic Republic. The destruction of the Islamic Republic is a prerequisite for America to compensate for all the economic damage that was inflicted on our economy by the past presidents, including Obama, and Biden, and W, and Clinton.

• 1:20:30Speaker 03

  And, Doctor, I wanna add something. You asked why some viewers, they are saying why it should be, it's not America's business. I want to refer the people to go and check about who created the State Department first. Do you know who did it?

• 1:20:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Tell us.

• 1:20:49Speaker 03

  That was the first Secretary of State of the United States of America. A guy called Thomas Jefferson, which I love this guy. When I was a teenager, I read a book about his life and I said, "Oh, my God. He is my role model." And I'm called the Persian Thomas Jefferson, by the way, after that. Thomas Jefferson came up with the idea called "Empire of Liberty." Based on that idea, "Empire of Liberty," he created the State Department and he said, "Yes, we got it. We got the Constitution of United States.

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  We introduced the first constitutional republic to the world, but we have obligation for entire world." Maybe some people, they don't like this right now, but they are saying, "Oh, it's America first." America first? This idea of "America first" is coming from Jefferson. And the world is a lot smaller than everybody think. Those people who came and attacked in 9/11, New York, those World Trade Centers, those were not Americans. They came from somewhere, from the other side of the oceans. It was some ideology.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  If Americans, they want to live in peace, they shouldn't think, "Oh, if we live in peace in our country, nobody is coming to knock our door and kill us." No, they are coming. I'm an American. An Iranian regime at least tried five times to kill me in Texas. I filed a lawsuit against this regime. You can find it, Fakhravat versus Islamic Republic, in Washington, DC federal court. The regime is trying. And FBI is protecting me right now because of all those attacked by IRGC. And entire Americans, and even American president, just that was a couple of days ago, during the regime's protest on Iranian state TV.

• 1:22:57Speaker 03

  They said, "Next time, we will not miss the bullet."

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  دفعه دیگه خطا نمی کنیم. That means they put the President Trump's picture there from that assassination attempt and mention that. That means regime says, "Yes, we did it the first time, and we are going to do it again." Empire of Liberty means when American founding fathers, they found that it's about the natural rights of the people. It's life, liberty, equality, pursuit of happiness. When we found it, we should give this gift to the world too.

• 1:23:38Speaker 03

  And United Nations have been created based on that beautiful idea, to help the world. Because if we don't help them, they are coming with their crazy ideologies to haunt us. And, yes, definitely.

• 1:23:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Here's a question for you, Dr. Kangul. Because from where you were going, I was gonna ask you this next question. Is, so,

• 1:24:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Iran, who's protecting Iran right now against US? Has the president set it up in such a way where right after Davos, he's talking about border of peace, he's been talking about this for a minute, and this is who joined us, and here's who joined us, and this is who is part of this, and then you see who's not, and who's out of it, right? Is the president doing this in a way where he's having conversations with China to not intervene with Iran? He's suffocating Russia with all the sanctions. Is Iran almost left on an island by themselves? Or will anybody support and defend them?

• 1:24:39Speaker 04

  Iran is greatly and aggressively supported by China and Russia. China is providing the software of suppression, and Russia is providing the hardware of suppression. And that's the reason why this government has been so successful in putting down the protests. They are using some of the most sophisticated techniques for population control and for control of protests. But I don't think that either China or Russia, regardless of how... Hell bent they are to keep this government in power. I don't think they would be able to do that because of the fact that the United States

• 1:25:19Speaker 04

  has a president who has discovered a tool in the toolbox of the president that no other president had ever was even aware of this tool in the toolbox of the president. I mean, the presidents, when they come to office, they think that the tools they have to play with is Pentagon, State Department, Hollywood, the soft power, and basically our relationship with our allies in Europe and the rest of the world. This president brilliantly, he discovered a tool that is more powerful than all of those tools combined. And I'll tell you what that tool is. The United States has the world's largest consumer market.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  We buy things more than the rest of the world. We buy it more than the size of our population. The largest consumer market in the world. Everyone in the world wants to have access to our consumer market, right? They want to build things and send it to America because America can afford to buy expensive things, you know? Look at how many monitors are around you, you know, in a typical house, in a typical house, you know, husband and wife, you can find multiple monitors, multiple computers, you know, the luxury and the affluence and the economic success is the reason why the size of our, of consumer market is huge. And everybody wants to have access to it. And for the last 80 years, everybody had unhindered access to American products.

• 1:26:48Speaker 04

  They could send things here, they could build it, they could manufacture it cheaper than we can do it in this country. And this is how manufacturing in this country was hauled out completely in, you know, during COVID, we didn't even have surgical gloves and masks.

• 1:27:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Very true, and we were relying on them.

• 1:27:07Speaker 04

  We were relying on them because they can make it cheaper, right?

• 1:27:10Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, that's right.

• 1:27:11Speaker 04

  And, and in addition to the fact that they could make it cheaper. There was no barrier against sending these cheap products to the United States and basically putting out all the competition, all the local manufacturers of these consumer products.

• 1:27:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's more important to China and Russia? A better relationship with US or protecting Iran?

• 1:27:32Speaker 04

  That's a billion-dollar question.

• 1:27:35Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a trillion-dollar question.

• 1:27:36Speaker 04

  It's a trillion-dollar question. And I will tell you what. I will tell you what's my take on the answer to your question.

• 1:27:42Patrick Bet-David?

  And I say trillion-dollar because Iran's economy right now is 400 billion. They should be at 2 trillion, 1.5 trillion with the 92 million people they got. We're leaving so much economy that everybody could benefit from.

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  So President Trump identified this problem, identified this jewel access to American consumer market. And he came to every, as soon as he came to office, actually, the first day he came to office, he started slashing tariff. Tariff, he said tariff is my most favorite word in the dictionary. The reason why it's his most favorite word in the dictionary is because in the last 80 years, we basically had no tariff for the export of products to this country. And every country, including our allies in Europe and Canada and Mexico and Japan and Australia,

• 1:28:35Speaker 04

  they had huge tariffs against the export of American products to their countries. This is the reason why we have 1.3 trillion dollar of trade deficit with the world. And that trade deficit has caused our national debt of 3.37 trillion.

• 1:28:50Patrick Bet-David?

  You know why I'm asking this question? The reason why I'm asking this question is because everything to me is sequencing. You know, the kids and I were just introduced to this new game by Morall and Tigran called Sequence, where you have to find a sequence of matching the numbers with the cards and you have an opponent, you have a teammate to play with. I'm thinking in the back of my mind, when he said we're gonna attack, and then he didn't, Iranians were disappointed, saying, "Oh my god, why didn't he attack?" He said he was going to. And then, reports came out, well, some stories were saying, "Well, because Netanyahu said, 'We're not ready yet, so let's hold off before we attack.'" Okay, then, you're sitting there thinking, "He's now talking about this right after Davos."

• 1:29:33Patrick Bet-David?

  But was he on his back of his mind, making two additional phone calls, to get Putin and Netanyahu to sit this one out? To say, "Hey, let us go through this?" I don't know, because to me, it's an easier job, if Iran knows they can't call daddy and mommy, Putin and Xi Jinping, and say, "Hey, you know, this crazy guy's coming over here. The last time he killed my number-two guy, I think they want to kill me this time." And then this time around, Russia and China may have said, "Listen, you better figure this one out. This is how much we can help you. But we're not willing to go X, Y, Z to support you. I don't know." But let's go to the next question. Here's the next question for both of you guys, with the last 30 minutes that we have together. Reza Palavi, so if you look at, you know, commentary on replacement,

• 1:30:17Patrick Bet-David?

  I've had him on multiple times, you know, both times I've had him on, he's expressed the interest that he has zero interest to go back. We've all seen the clips, whether it's on my show or somebody else's, "Why would I go to another country that's not free? I already have freedom. I wouldn't go to another country that's not free. I'm not gonna go there." And then he flips, and he says, "I'm willing to die for my compatriots, and I'm willing to die for Iran, and I'm willing to go back, and I'm willing to do all this stuff." And then we saw the picture with him and Maria Corina Machado, right? And to give him credit, his videos were going viral in a big way on Instagram, pre them shutting down the internet, because a lot of Iranians were able to see it. And I'm a guy, a lot of people would say, "Those are fake buzzers." I know the game, on what fake is and what real is. These are real views he was getting.

• 1:31:01Patrick Bet-David?

  What happens next? Your position with Reza Palavi, and your position with Reza Palavi? I'll come to you first.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  Phew, the sexiest topic.

• 1:31:16Speaker 03

  It's... I have been a friend with him for ten years.

• 1:31:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Are or were?

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  I were. I was, I was. I'm not.

• 1:31:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you on his team when he was?

• 1:31:31Speaker 03

  He trusted me a lot.

• 1:31:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:31:35Speaker 03

  As a friend, as we worked together to create the new organization for the opposition called National Iranian Council. And it's supposed to be National Iranian Congress, but for some reason, he was, he had some secret discussion with the reformists inside the country and decided to change the Congress to council, and that was a long story. But when I was still in Iran, in prison, I could manage, for the first time, to talk to him.

• 1:32:04Speaker 03

  And then, he was interested to talk to me because we were on the news about the July 9, 1999, the student uprising, and it goes back to twenty-some years ago. And then, our friendship was started from the time I was in prison, still. And then, I came to the United States in 2006, and he was one of the first Iranian opposition figures who contacted me and came to have lunch with me. And our friendship in person started, and we went together with President Bush's team to the International Conference of Democracy and Security in Prague in 2007.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  And we both signed the charter to create the new organization, Global Defenders of Freedom. And it's just my signature there, and there's Apehlavi's signature in that chapter. And President Bush's signature is there, Jose Mario Aznar, the former Prime Minister of Spain, and Nathan Sharansky. Watslaw Havel was hosting us. I was there for ten days in his palace during that conference. And we, me and Apehlavi, we worked a lot together. And at some point, I have seen, it's not possible, because he started sending letters to Iranian Supreme Leader with a nice word, and I said, "No, Reza, I don't want to do that."

• 1:33:32Speaker 03

  And he started talking behind the scene with IRGC and even cooperating with them.

• 1:33:39Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you mean by that?

• 1:33:40Speaker 03

  If you look at Mike Pompeo, Mike Pompeo's speech about that, the former head of CIA, former Secretary of State, strongly said Reza Pahlavi and his team, they are heavily collaborating with IRGC behind the scene. And they said, the American intelligence services, they know that. And Reza Pahlavi didn't deny that. Said, "I'm talking to them to make sure they are coming to the side of the people." I'm 100% disagree with that. Because you cannot talk, you couldn't talk with SS and Gestapo during the Hitler's time.

• 1:34:20Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, you know I've been very critical of him myself. So it's not like I'm not, I'm not making friends with the Reza Pahlavi community. Somebody may say, Trump wrote him a letter. Trump is trying to talk to the IRGC. Is he trying to not negotiate with the Gestapo? So it could be a way of trying to open the line of communication. Is that a bad thing?

• 1:34:41Speaker 03

  President Trump is the leader of world, not just the United States. The leader of world wanted to see if he can fix the problems without just bloodshed. He is trying to do that. But Reza Pahlavi, calling himself the leader of opposition, it's self-proclaimed. Because he has 20 to 30% of the support in Iranian community. But 70% of the Iranian community, they don't want him. They are saying we want...

• 1:35:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Why are they following his content so closely? Why are they following? Again, please, hear me out on this. I'm a very reasonable player. My criticism is, why have you been sitting around not doing anything for 47 years? My criticism is that. But to say the Iranian people are not paying attention, you can literally, like if I, let's just say we sell 10,000 policies a month in insurance. Okay? And all of a sudden, I lose my license to sell in the state of California. And I go from 10,000 policies I'm selling a month to 2,000 policies I'm selling a month. And I start saying, no, California has nothing to do with our business. I just lost 80% of my business in California.

• 1:36:05Patrick Bet-David?

  This guy goes from getting 20, 30 million views for the videos he's uploading, to all of a sudden get 2 to 3 million the day they shut down the internet. So, and it's not like it's not Iranians around the world. It's specifically targeting Iranians in Iran. Like, you know, when you watch Manotto, Instagram at one point was a number one Instagram account, was getting billions of views for news because Iranians were open, they could watch it, and it shut down. Is it 20 to 30% or is it a higher number?

• 1:36:31Speaker 03

  Let me tell you what happened. Just go back to five-

• 1:36:33Patrick Bet-David?

  And by the way, I want you to also think about some of these questions because I'm gonna come to you as well.

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  Go back to five years ago, seven years ago, look at his social media account. He was here for, back then for 42 years still. And then, when he was posting something on Twitter, it had 40 likes, 40, 30, even 18 likes. And then after the killing of Mahsa Amini, something happened. The people in Iran, the people are desperate to find a way to come out of this problem they are living in, come out of hell.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  And then it was some false hope created in the media, the mainstream Iranian media, which are leftists and under control of Iranian reformists. Those mainstream media, Manotto started, the TV you mentioned, Manotto started very good. Then Manotto turned to be just monarchist TV and it was bankrupted. And it was closed. Right now it's just YouTube TV.

• 1:37:41Patrick Bet-David?

  But do you know why though? Do you know why though?

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  Because-

• 1:37:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Why?

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Because he lost, the TV lost the support. When you are going full force for monarchy, the people are saying-

• 1:37:49Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I don't think so. I don't think that's what it was. I don't think that's what it was. And, and, and let me explain my opinion. Again, keep in mind- I mean, feel free to push back and argue with me. This is the, the audience has to win, not us. The audience has to win and we can disagree, you can even disagree with me and push back. My opinion was, he ran out of money because he was, his entire business model was predicated on Iran. Kayvon. His entire business model was, his entire business model was on, predicated based on, if Iran opens, what happens to them? Manitoba can become NBC, can become BBC of the Iranian community. Cause they were crushing. So he ran out of money. I think his entire business model was for Iran to be free and the only person he saw

• 1:38:34Patrick Bet-David?

  that can potentially happen there is Reza Pahlavi. So let me, let me give you the, a follow-up question and again, you can go back and respond to everything I said as well. This is my challenge. One day I'm sitting here at the house and I'm just sick and tired of Reza Pahlavi. Because I'm, I'm watching him and I'm saying to him, if you don't want the job, step out of the way and let somebody else do it. Right? It's, it's very simple. You can't hold on to everything and say, oh my God, every time they scream my name, it feels so good, it feels so good, it feels so good. It's not how life works. Okay. If you want to make history, be part of history, you gotta carry the burden and play offense and not wait for a crisis to just take advantage of. You gotta impose and you gotta play offense.

• 1:39:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So I started asking everybody, who's his opposition? What's his competition? Who's pushing, who's, he, every day he knows he's number one. It's like how monarchy is, the oldest son always knows, the job is yours, you don't have to do anything. It's like the only child syndrome. Hey, no matter what, the money's coming to me anyways, who cares? I don't have any competition. I always tell people, never have one kid. Always have three kids. You have one kid, there's no competition. You have three kids, they will compete. If you can do four, five, six, even more, better for you. Never have one kid. The only child walks around at mommy and daddy's business is theirs. That's my money, that's my jewelry, that's my watch, that's my this. No, it's not. So that's what was frustrating for me. So now my rebuttal to you is this. It's, but hear me out, I'm gonna ask you this question. In America, we have alternatives.

• 1:40:00Patrick Bet-David?

  J D Vance knows, there's a guy that could have his job, that's not J D and his name is Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio is not a lightweight. But both of them also know, there's a guy named Newsom. Who is the alternative to Reza Pahlavi?

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  If you're asking the media right now, they're saying it's just him. Nobody is there. That is the environment, the mainstream Persian media created. And that is, you know, if you're asking me, one of the reason we have seen that bloodshed, that bloodbath all over the country right now? One of the reason is Reza Pahlavi and the media. They gave false hope to the people. They told them President Trump is ready. He's ready, he's coming to help. And he told the people via media, he even went to Sean Hannity's show and said,

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  "The security forces, IRGC and the police, they put down their guns. They are not going to shoot the people. They joined me." He said 50,000 IRGC forces, they signed my QR code and they are people, they are in your sight, 50,000. Last night, he was on CNN.

• 1:41:19Patrick Bet-David?

  He said that?

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  Last night on CNN, he said the number is 150,000.

• 1:41:26Patrick Bet-David?

  You have that rap? I'm looking. Keep speaking, we'll find it.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  And then, this is wrong. When the people started this round of protest, the round of protest was started during the meeting between President Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu here in Florida, in Mar-a-Lago. The protest was started the night before because the people wanted to show Benjamin Netanyahu and President Trump that we are ready for change. And the people stayed in the street for 10 days where Reza Pahlavi was back then. Reza Pahlavi with his family, he was sitting at the beach, having fun. He was not part of that movement, but then media started to tell the people, "People, go out and call Heil King."

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Oh, Heil Hitler. No, sorry, Javid Shah. Isn't it Heil Hitler? Javid Hitler? Long live Hitler? And right now, they are calling Heil King, Javitschah.

• 1:42:26Patrick Bet-David?

  What are you saying with that? That's ridiculous comment you just made.

• 1:42:29Speaker 03

  The media created.

• 1:42:31Patrick Bet-David?

  You're comparing the two together?

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  It's yes. It's that Javitschah is the Heil Hitler.

• 1:42:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Aamir, you can't say that you lose credibility with me when you say something like that.

• 1:42:39Speaker 03

  It's...

• 1:42:39Patrick Bet-David?

  You're making a comparison of RP as a...

• 1:42:42Speaker 03

  Not RP. The, the, I'm talking about the, this slogan they created, the media created.

• 1:42:48Patrick Bet-David?

  But that's an Iranian translation. "Long live the king" is a, something that they say. These are two separate, I don't want to confuse...

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  When the people are killing in the street, we cannot say just Javitschah. Just bring his picture up and say, tell the people...

• 1:43:02Patrick Bet-David?

  They can say whatever, the Iranian people can say whatever they want to say. I, I, you make some points that is credible arguments. And I want to stay on things that are credible. I don't want to do a propaganda thing here.

• 1:43:13Speaker 03

  Okay, let's, let's just, we can, we can agree to disagree with that part. But, but the point is...

• 1:43:19Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, but, but, but wait a minute. If he's saying, "Go and protest", and I'm following your lead.

• 1:43:27Speaker 03

  I'm meeting you.

• 1:43:28Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I'm an Iranian. I'm a 22-year-old Iranian in the street, just like you were doing in 99 in Iran, right? How old were you in 99, 27 years ago?

• 1:43:36Speaker 03

  He, that was, uh, 20...

• 1:43:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, you were 20 years old.

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  22, 23.

• 1:43:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, 22 years old. I'm a 22-year-old guy in Iran. I'm watching his Instagram post. "Hey, I need you guys tonight to go on the streets at 8 o'clock." Perfect, I'm gonna go do it. All right? I go, my best friend dies, they kill him. My cousin dies, they kill him. I come home to my family, they're crying because I lost my cousin and I lost my best friend. With the hopes that this guy's gonna close it. If I'm going in the streets and putting my life on the line, and you don't close, that blood is on your hands. That part, I agree with. I ask you a question, Aamir. You're a very smart guy, we still haven't answered it. Who's the alternative to Reza Pahlavi?

• 1:44:19Speaker 03

  It shouldn't be one person.

• 1:44:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Wait, give me, give me one.

• 1:44:23Speaker 03

  We, we, we, we shouldn't have one person. We should have Constitutional Assembly, Patrick. We should have the different people. And if you're asking me, if you want to go for one person, right now, Iran needs a businessman.

• 1:44:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  With the vision, a visionary businessman.

• 1:44:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  Brave enough to talk...

• 1:44:46Speaker 03

  The one who can be in touch with the world leaders, we need that type of guy. Not the type of guy when the world leaders are coming to talk about Iran in Florida. He goes with his family to the beach. And when the people are out for 10 days.

• 1:45:00Patrick Bet-David?

  That's fair criticism.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  After 10 days, he's coming and saying, people, I'm going to ask you to come to street in two days. Giving regime two days notice at 8:00 PM Thursday. Come out regime was ready, was ready to go for blackout internet, blackout the phone and go and kill as much as they can. And, and you know what? The people came out, they didn't come out for war. They didn't have gone. They came with their family members. The couples, they came out with their kids and they all, they all are killed right now. Because of, you know, when you are calling yourself opposition leaders, it comes with a lot of responsibilities. Not when CBS asked him that.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  Do you feel any responsibility, Mr. Pahlavi? That you called the people to come out and it's a blood.

• 1:45:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, do you have that clip?

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  And, and he said, he said what? He said, this is a war. War has casualty. Mr. Pahlavi, you didn't tell the people it's a war. You told them, nobody is going to shoot you. All the security forces, they joined me. You said, nothing will happen to you. President Trump is there ready to. And President Trump was not there ready. Yeah, they, he could wait for three weeks. Right now, President Trump is ready. Right now, Benjamin Netanyahu is ready. Reza Pahlavi, if he was a good leader, should wait three weeks. We didn't need to see 70,000 dead body in the street right now.

• 1:46:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Rob, is this a clip? I believe so. Go for it.

• 1:47:03Speaker 07

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 1:47:32Speaker 06

  Last summer, July, you announced that more than 50,000 officials from the military, from the Iranian government, had submitted to a Google forum.

• 1:47:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you raise the audio, guys?

• 1:47:43Speaker 06

  That they wanted to defect from the current regime. Did you verify those numbers? Do those names? Is the number still 50,000? And where have those defectors gone? What happened to them? It's more than that. Two days before the internet shutdown, we have over 100,000 people, new applicants to a platform that we had created a few months before, adding to the numbers that had already started joining. Among them, you find members of the military, paramilitary, police forces, but also a lot of people who are in the civil bureaucracy, working in ministries and so on and so forth. Diplomats and others. And we're beginning to see signs of more and more people, you know, refusing to go back to work or literally defecting. This is very important because it's part of our process.

• 1:48:27Speaker 06

  You see, one of the lessons learned from debatification in Iraq was really a bad example of how you manage a change of regime. And in the case of Iran, you don't have the problem you saw happen there in the debatification. We are trying to be inclusive as much as possible of all those who can survive regime change and have a place in the future.

• 1:48:45Patrick Bet-David?

  You can pause it. So he said 100,000 before. Okay. But again... It's a false hope. Bloody false hope. Yeah. When I ask, "Who is an alternative?", you still haven't given an answer. When you're saying, "We go a different route", fine. But if there was somebody in the streets that they can't go to, they would, somebody would rise up. Nothing like that has happened. I'm going to come back to it. Dr. Ken Gourle, where are you at with this? What do you think can happen if US attacks Iran? What role does Reza Pahlavi play?

• 1:49:17Speaker 04

  You know, one of the reasons why I support...

• 1:49:22Speaker 04

  President Trump, and I think he is brilliant and he will succeed beyond what he has done so far for this country is because of his lack of interest in politics in first part of his life. You know, he was, he independently established himself as a very successful businessman in the most difficult real estate market in the world, New York real estate market. And then, you know, after he really achieved every landmark that he wanted to achieve in that industry, he decided that, you know, he has better thoughts for America and he has better ideas of how to run this country. And he came into politics and he apparently, so far, he's been more successful than he's been in the real estate business in New York.

• 1:50:04Speaker 04

  So for the same reason that you're criticizing Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi, I support him. Because of his lack of interest in becoming a ruler, I'm afraid of people who desperately want to become a ruler. All the people who desperately want to be a ruler, they have an extraterritorial agenda. He is lending, he's throwing his hat in the, in the ring, but he didn't have to. He had a wonderful life, not a glamorous life, but a calm life. He's in love with his family. He has spent two thirds of his life under democracy in this country.

• 1:50:45Speaker 04

  He is the most democratic leader in anywhere in the Muslim world. He, like I said, the fact that he wasn't interested and he was saying that I'm not interested, first of all, I think the reason why he was saying that was because he really didn't have any indication that he had a popular support.

• 1:51:05Speaker 04

  But as soon as he saw that the nation has elected him and selected him as the sole leader who has legitimacy to run the country after Islamic Republic, he started showing interest. You know, why should I say I'm interested in leading the people in the country? You know, there are a lot of leaders, you keep asking the question of if not him, who? There are a lot of self-proclaimed leaders in the opposition who cannot gather hundred people in a square in Tehran. He has been able, at least in the last three months, he's been able to bring hundreds of thousands of people.

• 1:51:42Speaker 03

  Is it okay to bring them and they get killed?

• 1:51:44Speaker 04

  Well, that's the story of revolutions. Revolutions are not done by intellectual and philosophizing the issue. Those people have-

• 1:51:53Speaker 03

  Exactly, it happens with philosophers. Thomas Jefferson, John Locke, all the great revolutions in England, in France, in United States happened with those. We need those intellectual movements. We cannot just ask the people to come out and get killed. And just say, "Oh, it's war, war has casualties."

• 1:52:12Speaker 04

  In every revolution, people take out to the streets and they get killed. You cannot blame the leader of the revolution. Look at other revolutions, the so-called great revolutions.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  Was he the leader of the revolution? Sorry, I'm interrupting you. What he was doing at the start of the revolution, for first 10 days at the beach with his family?

• 1:52:34Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know, I don't have a firsthand access to his itinerary, so I don't know where he was. And I'm not going to base my analysis for his role and the hope that the Iranian people have pinned on him. You know, ultimately, it comes down to this. He had an interview with the editor-in-chief of Economist, Zanni Belas, and she asked him the following question. "Since your father," this is literally what she asked. "Since your father was a despot and a dictator, how do you expect the Iranian people to follow you?" And this was his answer. He said, "I don't expect them to follow me, but they follow me." I think this is a brilliant answer to what is happening.

• 1:53:17Speaker 04

  Iranian people looked at the spectrum of the self-proclaimed leaders. They looked at all of them, Mirhossain Musavi, Karubi, Khattami, and all the reformists. They looked at him too. He has something that none of them have. He has a track record of his parents. His parents built Iran in fifty years like a country that today is China. In the last fifteen years of Mohammad Reza Shah's Palavi, we had, our economy was the China's of today and South Korea's of today. We had a double-digit economic growth for-

• 1:53:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That's factual. That's not just a hypothetical. The history is factual that the father did this.

• 1:53:58Speaker 04

  Undeniable.

• 1:53:59Patrick Bet-David?

  The question is, when the average person says, "What has he built the last forty-eight years?"

• 1:54:07Speaker 04

  Oh my god. It's a very long story what he has built.

• 1:54:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Try to do it in a shorter version, though.

• 1:54:11Speaker 04

  Okay. Just one.

• 1:54:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Place. Yeah.

• 1:54:14Speaker 03

  Three girls, beautiful. Everybody will love them, the family, but he didn't create anything else.

• 1:54:19Speaker 04

  He had achieved in Iranian opposition, something that no other leader of opposition has achieved. I'll give you one example in which I was personally involved.

• 1:54:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Please.

• 1:54:30Speaker 04

  Ten years ago, he came to me and he said, "Dr. Kang Eru, I want to build a scientific organization that comes up with plans for the future of Iran when Iran is liberated from these mullahs. Can you gather Iranian scientists and build something like a cabinet? Not for political reasons, but for coming up with projects of how to run the ministry, how to Iranian Ministry of Health and Agriculture and Environment and so on and so forth." And we built this project called Qoq News, or the Phoenix Project of Iran. During that time, I was talking to the Crown Prince on daily basis. On daily basis, long conversations. He was asking me questions about every single-

• 1:55:14Speaker 04

  We built the Phoenix Project of Iran with fourteen different divisions, each division with the best Iranians experts in that field. And he will come to me and we had meetings among ourselves, among the members of the Phoenix Project. And at the end of the week, I called the Crown Prince and give him a report of the discussion that was going on in this. And in every single one of those, he will listen to me so patiently and answer the most insightful questions related to that particular activity, whether it was international relations, agriculture, water issue, future of our relationship with our neighbors,

• 1:55:57Speaker 04

  relationship with Israel, with Turkey, and so on and so forth. During a very intimate relationship that I had with him intellectually and politically and socially, I should say, I came to know him very, I mean, beyond, I think, my, his performance was beyond my imagination. You know, the questions he asked, how calmly he listened to me so many times, you know, my position was completely different, 180 degrees different from him, and he, you know, sometimes he took my position back and sometimes he pushed back on an equal basis. He convinced me during that experience that he is the most democratic leader, or actually the most democratic individual I have ever interacted with. So Qoghnos was very successful.

• 1:56:42Speaker 04

  We declared the existence of Qoghnos in a press conference in Georgetown University in February of 2018, and he was present. He was sitting in the front row, and these scientists were presenting their projects, the projects whom he asked us to come up with. They were presenting these projects all in technical terms. For eight hours, he sat down and listened to every single conversation and every single lecture patiently, and he asked the most insightful questions. Six months later, we had our first conference for Qoghnos in Toronto, Canada, and we had our first conference where, once again, these people were presenting very fancy, highly technical, highly boring issues about the future of Iran.

• 1:57:27Speaker 04

  Once again, he was sitting in the front row along with his wife and listened to every, I never saw him yawning or losing interest or showing some disinterest in anything that he was, so that experience showed me that this man is the most qualified individual to run the country after the Iranian, after the Iranian regime.

• 1:57:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Amir, what do you say to that?

• 1:57:52Speaker 03

  Do you want me to just give you the last chapter of Qoghnos when his team?

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  backstabbed you and put Qognous in bed? Because he has divorced team infiltrated by the regime of Iran around him. And right now, all the wise and brilliant guys like you, you are hated by his team. And he's following just the order of those couple of people who have a close tie to IRGC, close tie to the regime institutions. And he's listening to them. The experience you had with him 10 years ago, I had with him 20 years ago, exactly the same experience. But that is the problem. When it comes to the result, to continuation is a good thing to do.

• 1:58:43Speaker 03

  Then he's lost somewhere. The last person coming to him and talking to him is the ones he says, "Oh, wow, you are right." Then he's just jumping and leaving all the friends there. And you are saying he's democratic. Just look at the... He wrote a document called Munich Document after the 12 Days War. Have you seen that document? In the page 4 of that document, Patrick, Reza Pahlavi's team, they wrote that for him, specifically Said Qaseminejad and Amir Husein Etamadi. I'm naming these two because these are the right and left hand of him,

• 1:59:25Speaker 03

  both of them from the Office of Consolidating Unity between seminary and universities, whatever in Iran. The same organization which attacked American Embassy in Iran and took hostage the American diplomats. These people are from the same organization. These are the right and left top advisor of Reza Pahlavi right now. And they wrote in Munich Document 6 months ago, "Reza Pahlavi is the leader of our movement, our revolution for now. And he is the head of our transitional government. Reza Pahlavi is the head of..."

• 2:00:08Speaker 03

  We have executive branch, judiciary branch, and legislative branch. They have 3 branches in this document. And they are saying the head of all of these branches is Reza Pahlavi himself. He is picking all the members of legislative branch, all the members of parliament. He is picking them, all the cabinet members, he is picking them. He is the head of judiciary. And this is to me, as constitutional law scholar, this is the definition of absolutism. That means his guy is a dictator in waiting. And he said, "The period for transition has three phases.

• 2:00:52Speaker 03

  The first phase is 180 days. The second phase is two, two, three years. The third phase is unlimited. Until it's needed, he will stay the leader of the country." Excuse me, we do have the supreme leader right now in Iran. Why we need to change supreme leader, who is the head of executive branch, legislative branch, and judiciary branch, to change it with a guy called Reza Pahlavi? The supreme leader can just continue and go and be the absolute leader of the society. Reza Pahlavi doesn't have problem with Islam. Even eight years ago, nine years ago, when the new generation, they came out, they started chanting against Islam. Reza Pahlavi called them fascist, called them racist,

• 2:01:37Speaker 03

  and said, "If you want to go and fight with Islam, let this regime, Islamic regime, stay in place. Because I don't want to go after Islam." Islam is good for Saudi Arabia. It brought a lot of money and attention to Saudi Arabia. But Islam destroyed us. Islam destroyed Persian Empire, destroyed Iran. We don't want Islam. Islam can go back to Saudi Arabia and stay there. We are the Persians, we are not Muslims. And we proved that. Reza Pahlavi couldn't come out of Islam yet. Reza Pahlavi is still stuck with absolutism, the same as his father, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. Because, because the Iranian constitution during the Shah's time

• 2:02:22Speaker 03

  was, the constitution making the king absolute power. The constitution gave the head of...

• 2:02:34Speaker 03

  Judiciary branch, head of legislative branch, head of executive branch, gave all the title to the king. The constitution was wrong. We had six constitutional assemblies in Iran during last 120 days up to now. And all of them, they forgot about the people. They forgot about, they should send the power to the people. It's the government for the people, by the people, not for the king, by the king. We are not going back to that dark side of history. Yes, Iran was shining economically in the world, but it was with the help of United States.

• 2:03:15Speaker 03

  American experts were in Iran, thousands of them, helping economy to grow. And the last part, it's the 250th anniversary of birth of this beautiful nation, United States of America. And it's 120th anniversary of our constitutional revolution in Iran. You said, Patrick, who, when American founding fathers, they came together in Independence Hall, they didn't say, "Let's make George Washington, King George the First." No, they came up, they were brilliant, very genius people. They came up with the idea of drafting a document called constitution and let the constitution to lead them toward future,

• 2:04:00Speaker 03

  which lasted two and a half centuries. And in entire world, they are following the footprint of American founding fathers. Even I had this discussion with Gila Gamleil, the minister at the, Prime Minister Netanyahu's cabinet. Last year, I was in Israel, I went to her office at the Knesset. We had a long conversation for almost two hours about that. And she said, "We know Reza Pahlavi is not the guy who can lead, but let's all come together and support him." I said, "To be king?" She said, "No, he doesn't want to be king." I said, "Look at him, he's going pounding the chest saying, 'King Reza Pahlavi,'" and all his followers doing that, his wife is doing that, no. And I said, "Gila..."

• 2:04:45Speaker 03

  When Israelis founding fathers came together after the World War II to create Israel, why they didn't go? Because your history is about the kingdom, kingdom of Israel. You have King Solomon, you have King David. Why you didn't go back to your kingdom to call Ben-Gurion the King Ben-Gurion? Why you followed American footprint to be republic? We in Iran, we want to have our Republic of Iran, the first Republic of Iran and follow the footprint of American founding fathers. The Constitution should be our leader, not any person at all.

• 2:05:25Speaker 07

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• 2:06:09Speaker 07

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• 2:06:24Patrick Bet-David?

  That's, that's an idea that you're proposing and I'm a, I'm a guy who's pro America, pro, you know, what happened to this incredible idea, the Constitution they wrote up, the Republic that turned into the greatest country in the world, the amount of things that's produced. But today?

• 2:06:44Patrick Bet-David?

  He is getting the mic.

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  It's wrong. Khomeini got it forty-seven years ago.

• 2:06:49Patrick Bet-David?

  He, he, listen, that, that-

• 2:06:51Speaker 03

  It should be Patrick and Amir Fakhrova back then to say, "Khomeini, no, you cannot do that."

• 2:06:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let me ask you, with, with your question, and I'll, I'll bring it up to you as well, and then we'll wrap it up. Do, do you think the way things are looking right now? And again, none of us can be in their minds. I was on Fox and Friends this morning, and they asked me the same exact question that I'll be asking you. Do you think this is gonna be an attack? Then let the Iranian people figure it out? Do you think it's gonna be like Asam Soleimani, let's kill a couple people? Make a statement, don't talk about America like this ever again? Do you think US and the president are already thinking about attack with an outcome? To have somebody go back to Iran and bring safety? What do you think is gonna happen?

• 2:07:37Speaker 04

  Well, let me, uh, address some of the questions that Amir raised about Qarnous. Uh, when we, when His Royal Highness asked me to build Qarnous, I did. And it was very successful. It was supposed to be a political, uh, uh, sorry, a scientific organization. But I had a very large dimension of political activity in my life, uh, along with a full-time job at Columbia and all of that. And after Qarnous was established and it was on its own devices, then I asked His Royal Highness permission to basically step out and continue my life as before that. And, uh, he insisted that I should stay with the position, and I said, you know,

• 2:08:18Speaker 04

  there are people in Qarnous, in Phoenix Project, who are highly qualified, and I'm sure that, you know, they can, they can run the project. Uh, if not as good as me, can even run it better. And, uh, you know, I handed the Qarnous to the people who I used to work with for a whole year, and, uh, that's that. So there was really no dispute between me and him. He, he really asked me to stay on the job, but I didn't have time. As well as the fact that, you know, I was more politically active, then it justified to be a head of a, of scientific organization. Uh, and, and Qarnous continued its life, you know, years after I left, and, uh, that's, uh, then eventually it uh, dissolved into another organization that, that His Royal Highness has, has built. And it's now helping him, is really one of the tools in his hand

• 2:09:04Speaker 04

  for building the, all these projects for the future of Iran and all, all the activities that he's really running.

• 2:09:11Speaker 04

  As far as his unique qualifications is concerned, I know that historically, human beings are driven either by religious fervor or by nationalistic fervors, not by intellectual fervors. Intellectual fervors and intellectual motivations are only for intellectuals. Intellectuals, you know, Amir said that intellectuals during the Enlightenment, they were qualified to run the whole show. Jefferson, John Locke. But they don't run a revolution. Intellectuals write and talk. They don't take guns. Guns are taken by the people who actually have those two motivations, either religion or nationalism.

• 2:09:55Speaker 04

  So when Iran was nationalistic during Pahlavi's, the antidote to nationalism of Pahlavi was a religious government that came to power. Now, the antidote to a religious government of the Islamic Republic is nationalism. And Iranian nationalism is exclusively and solely is represented by His Royal Highness, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi. No one else is even in the horizon compared to him, not according to be, according to the people who are prepared to pay with their lives to shout his name and bring him back to power.

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  They didn't know they are going to get killed. They just came to the street. They thought it's done. It's for celebration because they lied to him, to the people via media. Reza Pahlavi lied to the people. He shouldn't do that. He should take some responsibility. He should take some responsibility. We have seen it. We have seen all these happen in front of our eyes. And still, he's going and lying around. The entire 50,000 defection is lie. 150,000 last night, he said, "It's a lie, huge lie." It's not even one single defection. We haven't seen it. We have seen just blood, bat, all over the country.

• 2:11:12Speaker 04

  Well, by the nature of defection, it has to be kept secret. If one of those names are revealed, their life will be in danger. They will not survive the next following 24 hours.

• 2:11:24Speaker 03

  Could they turn their guns against their colleagues who have been killing the people in the street? We haven't seen anything!

• 2:11:31Speaker 04

  That's not the way revolutions work. Revolutions work exactly how this revolution is happening. His leadership in the revolution has been established beyond any shadow of doubt.

• 2:11:44Speaker 03

  Which leadership?

• 2:11:45Speaker 04

  By hundreds of... For the first time, you know Iranians have been protesting for the last 47 years, but nothing compared to the dimensions of this last three weeks. We know that around 937 cities and villages and small towns in Iran, people took out on the street and every single one of them was shouting his name. The reason why they are shouting his name, because they know that we are about to build a world under the leadership of President Trump, that in that world, only Iran as a friend and a staunch ally of the United States can survive and can help America to unravel the axis of evil that is already built by China, Russia, and you know, Islamic people.

• 2:12:28Speaker 03

  All of us, we knew that. In the opposition, we knew President Trump can help Iran to make Iran great again, but none of us, like Reza Pahlavi, went in front of TV to say, "The people, it's gone. President Trump is ready. Netanyahu is ready. They are at the border. They are coming to help you. Don't worry, go to the street. The security forces, they put their guns down." None of us did that, and we warned him. We warned him, "Don't call it like that, because it will be a bloodbath", and he didn't listen, because he wanted the hashtag #Jabichah.

• 2:12:58Speaker 04

  With all due respect, none of you are even on the same galaxy that he is.

• 2:13:04Speaker 03

  What galaxy he is?

• 2:13:05Speaker 04

  The galaxy that people shout their names.

• 2:13:07Speaker 03

  You know, in Iran, just in three weeks, Khomeini became the leader, supreme leader. In three weeks?

• 2:13:13Speaker 04

  That's an entire...

• 2:13:13Speaker 03

  Before three weeks?

• 2:13:14Speaker 04

  That's an entire...

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:13:16Speaker 04

  But the question is, the question is that, right now, in Iran, hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people are shouting his name. Knowing that they will pay the price with their lives.

• 2:13:30Speaker 03

  47 years ago, Khomeini, Khomeini came to Iran when Reza Pahlavi's mom have done a coup d'etat against her husband, King Mohammed Reza Shah. And then the queen pushed the king out. But it's okay, it's okay.

• 2:13:44Speaker 04

  Those are outlandish accusations against a woman who Iranians refer to as the mother of nation.

• 2:13:52Speaker 03

  Just please read the page 171 of this book, the Mitrokin Archive.

• 2:13:56Speaker 04

  That's okay.

• 2:13:57Speaker 03

  The top secret documents of KGB.

• 2:13:59Speaker 04

  I will not.

• 2:14:00Speaker 03

  At the bottom of 171, you can, if you like to look at it. But, but let me tell you.

• 2:14:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Can, Amir, I want him to finish his thought, then I'm gonna come to you. The specific thought that you were saying, that you were about to make a point, you can't compare the two. But prior to that, you said the Iranian people are the ones that stood up, stood up in the streets. Can you finish that thought?

• 2:14:20Speaker 04

  The Iranians, you know, for the first time in the last 47 years, a lot of people have claimed to be the leader of this revolution, revolution against Islamic Republic, Karubi, Khamele, Mirhoseini Musabih, Hatemi, and so on and so forth. Right? None of them have been able to achieve what the Crown Prince has achieved in the last three weeks. We had demonstrations over the entire nation of 90 million. The reason why you don't know that yet is because of the digital blackout that they imposed on that country. And terabytes and terabytes and terabytes of information and films and pictures are stored and presented in Iranian cellphones that as soon as the internet opens, everybody in the world will believe in what I say.

• 2:15:05Speaker 04

  That this is, this was a revolution, this was not a protest, this was nothing compared to the Green Movement or any of the other, not revolution, the protests of 98 and 96 and so, and women, life, freedom, and all of that. This was a revolution in the making and the reason why it happened in the form of a revolution and not a protest was because one of the greatest achievements of the last three weeks was that this establishment of the leadership of the Crown Prince. As a leader of the national revolution beyond any shadow of the doubt. I don't think any self proclaimed leaders can even have any hopes of disputing his leadership.

• 2:15:50Speaker 04

  I think the sooner they stop, the better off they will be. And the sooner they stop, the more successful we will be as a nation to coalesce.

• 2:16:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I see that that part I'm not with that because I also think I I want to hear Amir's side. I want to hear everybody's side. This whole thing about eliminating opposing arguments.

• 2:16:14Speaker 04

  Not not not eliminating, not eliminating.

• 2:16:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Instead doing what?

• 2:16:18Speaker 04

  Coalescing, I said.

• 2:16:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, that.

• 2:16:20Speaker 04

  Coming together.

• 2:16:20Patrick Bet-David?

  But I'm sorry, respectfully, who whose job is that to do?

• 2:16:24Speaker 04

  The other leaders who see the.

• 2:16:26Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, no, I disagree. I disagree. It's his job to do that. I think it's on him to do that because if you think about proactive.

• 2:16:34Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:16:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, your your complement of the president. Who is being proactive about the board of the peace?

• 2:16:39Speaker 04

  Has he been able to coalesce all the opposition in this country?

• 2:16:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Who?

• 2:16:44Speaker 04

  President Trump.

• 2:16:45Patrick Bet-David?

  It's not about has he been able to. So has he been proactive? There's a big difference, Doc. You know, between me saying there's a girl at the bar, man, she is so pretty. I'm gonna wait for her to come and talk to me. No, she doesn't. She doesn't need to come to you. You gotta go court.

• 2:17:00Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:17:00Patrick Bet-David?

  So he hasn't pursued. Maybe he has.

• 2:17:03Speaker 04

  He has.

• 2:17:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I haven't seen the meeting.

• 2:17:05Speaker 03

  He didn't.

• 2:17:06Patrick Bet-David?

  I haven't seen a meeting.

• 2:17:07Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:17:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Who has he pursued? Who has he brought together? Because I think that's on him.

• 2:17:10Speaker 04

  In Georgetown meeting, he had, he was sitting next to five other.

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  I brought all those people via my Twitter account together, by the way.

• 2:17:22Patrick Bet-David?

  What year was that?

• 2:17:23Speaker 04

  Nevertheless.

• 2:17:24Speaker 03

  After kill, Mahsa Amini was killed.

• 2:17:26Speaker 04

  So it was five years ago.

• 2:17:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Were you still good with him at that time?

• 2:17:30Speaker 03

  No, I asked at the fortieth day when Mahsa was killed, everybody were confused in opposition. I mentioned in my Twitter and I said, opposition figures, I mentioned the name, all the names you have seen there at the Georgetown. I mentioned their names and said, let us come together and create the Revolutionary Council, because we cannot leave the people alone in the street. They all came together and Reza Pahlavi decided to put my name out. They stole the idea and went with it and then they destroyed the idea. It's the thing he is doing for years, stealing from the people the ideas. Right now, he's stealing the Constitutional Assembly from me.

• 2:18:13Speaker 03

  And I created that word, Constitutional Assembly. Everywhere in his interview, Reza Pahlavi is going and saying, I want to create Constitutional Assembly. I'm interested to know, Mr. Pahlavi, please tell me what does it mean Constitutional Assembly? How many times we had it before? And can I say something about the, about the, look, forty-seven years ago, when coup d'etat happened, in three weeks, the media, BBC specifically, BBC bombarded the people with Khomeini Rahbar. Khomeini is the leader. And Khomeini Rahbar became the slogan. Three weeks, media just needed three weeks to make Khomeini a Rahbar, a leader.

• 2:18:58Speaker 03

  In three weeks, exactly the same media, the same people, even some of them, they are all, they have been working at BBC, Keihan and Etalat back then. They created this time Javid Shah. Javid Shah is the new brand of Khomeini Rahbar. Three weeks leader, and you know what? You said never happened. In 2009, June 2009, Patrick, we had 4,500,000 people in the street in Tehran. Did you know that? Do you know who brought them out? That was Mir Hussein Musavi. Most of the people who came out, they didn't believe in Mir Hussein Musavi.

• 2:19:40Speaker 03

  They came out because they have seen Mir Hussein Musavi as an opportunity to go against Khomeini's brutality. Four million, five hundred thousand in Tehran, they came out. Do you know what was their chant back then? In 2009?

• 2:19:53Speaker 04

  Javid Shah?

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  No, Ya Hussein, Mir Hussein.

• 2:19:57Speaker 04

  Which is horrible.

• 2:19:58Speaker 03

  They chanted Ya Hussein, Mir Hussein. The same people during last three weeks chanted Javid Shah. These people, they, when they say Javid Shah, it doesn't mean they believe in him. They just want something, to grab it and come out of that hell regime made for these people. And what's the solution? I want to talk. Can I talk with President Trump for a couple of minutes?

• 2:20:21Speaker 04

  Can I respond to those points before we talk about Trump? Obviously, the people of Iran, you know, obviously, they're desperate for having a leader. That's true. This is what happens.

• 2:20:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree. At this point, it's like anything but to have what I have right now.

• 2:20:34Speaker 04

  But the fact that the people have chosen him, and there's plenty of evidence that people have chosen him. That picture that you are drawing for the Iranian Revolution of 1979 is a very simple-minded kindergarten picture. That BBC imposed Khomeini in three weeks.

• 2:20:55Speaker 03

  As a leader.

• 2:20:56Speaker 04

  This is, that's really disrespect to Iranian people. I was a student at the.

• 2:21:01Speaker 03

  You don't know the power of media?

• 2:21:03Speaker 04

  I, I was a student at Aryan University. Aryan University was the hotbed of revolution. Fifty-five, fifty-four, fifty-six. And I, two years before the revolution, the university campuses were boiling about debate over the dispute they had with the, with the policies of the Pahlavi.

• 2:21:28Speaker 04

  Government. And all the leftist movements in Iran, they tried to establish themselves as a leader of anti-Pahlavi revolution, and they couldn't. And Khomeini basically came along, and they all went under Khomeini's leadership because they couldn't find enough popular mandate in order to claim themselves as a leader of revolution. Right? This is how it happened. It didn't happen because of BBC. It didn't happen because of Voice of America. It didn't happen in three weeks. It happened in years and years and years. You know, the Pahlavi performance, economic performance, and its alliance. Actually, I have to confess here that, you know, a large number of Iranian dissidents during Pahlavi,

• 2:22:12Speaker 04

  they were against his policies of friendship and alliance with the United States. Because what we call intellectuals in Iran is really a code name, is a fancy name for the leftist. Ninety percent of the leftists in Iran were intellectuals, and intellectual was synonymous with leftist. So when this, when you are Pahlavi, in Pahlavi, I mean, the people who really betrayed Pahlavi were the Iranian intellectuals who happened to be ninety percent leftists. In any country, a government can be stable and find itself having a mandate through multiple mechanisms. The government can survive either by being popular or having brilliant economic performance,

• 2:22:57Speaker 04

  or if they don't have any of those, having a means of suppression. These are the only three ways that the government can survive. The government of America is popular. The government of China has brilliant economic performance. The government of Islamic Republic is using the means of suppression. So those are the three means of suppression. And in Iran, during the Shah, he was not good at imposing suppression on people. When people rose up against him, he said, "I don't want my ruling to be established on the blood of my nation." So he left. He simply said, "You don't..." This is Mohammad Razak Shah. Mohammad Razak Shah Pahlavi. But during the fifty years of his ruling and his father's ruling...

• 2:23:39Speaker 04

  Iran experienced the biggest... Iran went from today's Afghanistan to the fifth military in the world, to the China's economy of today, and to basically the superpower, a local superpower and regional superpower in the Middle East. There is no disputing that. You can say whatever you want about Pahlavi, but unfortunately, the intellectuals, who allied with Ayatollah Khomeini to launch the revolution, these intellectuals, they thought that, you know, they become parts of the new political apparatus of the Islamic regime. But Khomeini, within a year, within a very short time,

• 2:24:24Speaker 04

  he kicked all of his coalition forces of the leftists out of the government and started to slaughtering them in the pursuing 10 years after the war with Iraq started. So the intellectuals, who were hoping to become part of the government after the downfall of the Shah, they suddenly became a dissident in the government they helped establish. So the dissidents of Pahlavi became the dissidents of Islamic Republic. So these people, because they were dissidents of Pahlavi regime for a longer time than they were during the regime, the regime of Islamic Republic, they, even though they called themselves the dissidents of Islamic Republic,

• 2:25:07Speaker 04

  deep inside, they have an anti-Pahlavi DNA. 90% of today's dissidents in Iran have more hatred for Pahlavis than they have for the Islamic Republic. And this is one of the biggest cancerous tumors which is eating the opposition alive. And Shahzad al-Pahlavi, the Crown Prince al-Pahlavi, is the only antidote, is the chemotherapy of that cancer. And for a long time, he has tried to do that, and he has done that. He wasn't successful. He fought, you know, heroically, down and dirty in the trenches. And for a long time, he wasn't receiving, you know, popularity and attention from the international media. Now he is.

• 2:25:51Speaker 04

  The Iranian people are the ultimate judge, and they have decided that he will be the leader of our next revolution. And I think there is nothing that can change that.

• 2:26:01Speaker 07

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• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  I want to say something. I love you because you are genius. You are brilliant. But when it comes to modern history, definitely, if I want to give you a number, you are failed badly because it didn't happen like that at all. And you know what? All the mullahs- I was at the heart of it. I was at the heart of it. All the mullahs who came to power, they were on payroll of Shah's government.

• 2:27:32Speaker 03

  The Queen Farah had Murtaza Mutahri, the head of Revolutionary Council of Khomeini. Murtaza Mutahri, Mullah, was top advisor of Queen Farah. The guy, the head of Queen's office, Hussein Nasr, is the guy who brought Islam to America for the first time in 1953, in Harvard University. He is a terrible Muslim leftist guy. He's still alive, Hussein Nasr, in Washington DC, living there. And-

• 2:28:07Speaker 03

  His students, Hussein Nas's students are ruling Iran right now. All the mullahs in power, they were on payroll. Khomeini himself was on payroll of Savak. Monthly $6,000. One of the top leadership of Savak revealed that just lately. That Khomeini was on payroll of Savak until the last summer. When they cut it, that money, then Khomeini decided to go to Paris and start the so-called revolution. And you know what? The history is very complicated, but I want to come back to something positive.

• 2:28:44Speaker 04

  I want to say something about my grade in history.

• 2:28:48Speaker 03

  Okay, just come on. With me, with constitution, Allah, with the modern history of Iran, you are failed. I love you, I love you with the brilliant mind.

• 2:28:58Speaker 04

  Let me tell you that there are, in every revolution, in every revolution, if you think that because of Hussein Nas or Ehsan Naraqi or Manouchir Farid or Muthahari, or because they were in, you know, within the Iranian government, within the Shah's government, that disqualifies Shah from being a nationalist leader.

• 2:29:18Speaker 03

  It was a coup d'etat by Queen, the Cinderella, Russian Cinderella of Iran. Queen Farah Diba, she have done a coup d'etat against her husband. I don't want to go there, let's don't go there.

• 2:29:30Speaker 04

  All right, but let me tell you.

• 2:29:31Speaker 03

  Let me come to the positive point.

• 2:29:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Let him finish his point, then we'll finish up on the positive.

• 2:29:35Speaker 04

  Let him finish.

• 2:29:36Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm gonna come to you.

• 2:29:38Speaker 04

  Even the Islamic government, the biggest opponents of Islamic Republic that brought him, brought it to the brink of collapse, where some of the founding members and friends of Ayatollah Khomeini, like Montazeri, Karubi, and Mirhosseni Musabhi, just because these...

• 2:29:56Speaker 03

  I was working for Queen's office before the revolution.

• 2:29:58Speaker 04

  In the Russian Revolution, one of the people who brought Russian Revolution to the verge of collapse was Leon Trotsky, one of the founding and the best theoretician of the Communist Party, right? So the fact that, you know, these people have been supporters of the... ...regime and even a member of the elite and the founding members of the society, it doesn't mean that they have completely lost their qualification for putting themselves out there as a leader of opposition. And, you know, I already told you that, you know, exactly the criticism that you have

• 2:30:39Speaker 04

  against the Pahlavi government, the fact that some of the leftist intellectuals were actually working in Queen Farah's office, I consider that the strength of the government.

• 2:30:51Speaker 03

  They hated Pahlavi.

• 2:30:52Speaker 04

  I know.

• 2:30:53Speaker 03

  Queen herself, she hated Pahlavi.

• 2:30:55Speaker 04

  No, he didn't, she didn't.

• 2:30:56Speaker 03

  She hated Reza Shah.

• 2:30:57Speaker 04

  Alright, so the fact that, so you know, a lot of people criticized the Shah's government for being despotic and not being inclusive and expelling, you know, the dissent from his government. And then Amir is giving evidence exactly to the opposite, that the Shah had the system of government that all the opponents, the people who eventually overthrew him, were actually at a very high...

• 2:31:25Speaker 03

  Shah was not in charge. The last six months Farah was in charge, and you know, January 6, 1978, one year before sending, pushing King out of Iran, Farah, Queen Farah, had a meeting in the United States with the CIA, FBI, and US Secret Service, and Farah told them, it's documented, Farah told them, everybody in Iran, the people, they hate the King, they hate the Shah, and they love me as Queen. And Farah asked the United States to ask the Shah to step down, I can be the Queen in charge of the country, then in two years my son can be the King. That was Farah's plan in the last year for the coup d'etat, and the documents are here

• 2:32:09Speaker 03

  in the United States with the CIA. But let me go to the positive point. Patrick?

• 2:32:16Speaker 03

  I love Dr. Kenger. I'm a hardcore supporter of Republic of Iran. I have been all my life. Even when I started talking with Reza Pahlavi 20 some years ago, I told him, I said, "I'm going to campaign for you when we have a good constitution, well-written constitution in place in Iran. I want you to be the first president of Republic of Iran." We never had republic in Iran.

• 2:32:43Speaker 04

  That would be a demotion.

• 2:32:44Speaker 03

  Okay. Then, then, I told him, and I still believe that. I still will do that. Also, I know he will destroy the economy of the country because he doesn't know anything about running any business. We need a businessman right now to be the first president of Iran. But you are a supporter of monarchy. I'm a hardcore republican. Just today, I realized, Dr. Kenger's beautiful wife is supporter of republic and is not supporting monarchy. And my beautiful wife...

• 2:33:22Speaker 04

  Now he's taking advantage of my weakness.

• 2:33:26Speaker 03

  My beautiful wife, Dr. Sanaz Alasti, she is hardcore monarchist. You know, it's in our family right now, republican and monarchy. We are not enemy of each other. Reza Pahlavi is not a good leader because he could bring us together. He could be the one to bring half of the society, right now they are republican, half of the society they are monarchist. If he was a good leader, instead of going out and saying, "Just go and say, 'King Reza Pahlavi, Javid Shah,'" and just push his minions to go there and just bring up his photo and going to all interviews and saying, "The people called me, the people called my name." Like a kid, he's going around and saying,

• 2:34:11Speaker 03

  "The people chanted my name." No, it's not a good leader. He could go and say, "All the republicans, all the monarchists, please come together. We are like a family. We can have a constitution." And you know, Patrick... We drafted a constitution, which is the chapter seven of my book. It's a textbook for American universities right now. It's the constitutional law book, the spirit of the constitutional law. Chapter seven is the draft constitution for future Iran, which me and my team, National Iranian Congress, we drafted. I gave the signed copy of that constitution to President Trump in 2019, when I was invited to speak at his house in Moro Lago.

• 2:34:51Speaker 03

  And then, in that, the constitution is written for both type of political system in Iran, either monarchy or republic. Both can use that constitution. If the constitution is well-written, you don't need to change even one single word. You can have the people, if they voted for the monarchy in Iran, it can be the constitution. If they voted for republic, it can be the constitution. But, I want to talk to President Trump right now. President Trump, everybody are asking who should be the next. We want exactly to follow the footprint of American founding fathers.

• 2:35:32Speaker 03

  My suggestion is, United States should help Iranians to create Constitutional Assembly, to bring together all opposition factions, invite them, and US government can do that easily, to invite them together, let them talk like we are disagree with each other. But we are talking to each other, we like each other, we are not enemy of each other. We should come to that Constitutional Assembly. Reza Pahlavi can be a member of that Constitutional Assembly, and can be a member of leadership of that Constitutional Assembly too. But he cannot be the king, the dictator, the absolute power. And you know what? It happened before in American history.

• 2:36:14Speaker 03

  Patrick, something is missing huge at the State Department right now, which Marco Rubio can fix that.

• 2:36:22Speaker 03

  The post-war Japan, when Japan was defeated with nuclear bomb, we had a army, army general called General Douglas MacArthur, leading that, that war. General Douglas MacArthur, after the war, asked Japanese to go and draft Constitution for yourself. They drafted the Constitution, brought it to him after months of working on that Constitution. He looked at it and said, "Where is the woman's right to vote?" They said, "Oh, you know, the women's are not the same as men." And he said, "BS." He throw that Constitution to trash can and told Japanese, "You don't know how to draft the Constitution." Then he gave ultimatum, one-week ultimatum, to his staff members, General Douglas MacArthur,

• 2:37:05Speaker 03

  asked them to draft Constitution for Japan. In one week, they drafted the Constitution. That is now the longest-standing Constitution without any amendment, the Constitution of Japan. With Japanese people, they are calling it MacArthur's Constitution. Japan came up from a destroyed nation to one of the G7 members, one of the greatest allies of United States. And, but the failing experience happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. What happened? Army have done a great job in Afghanistan to destroy the terrorist group from power, the Taliban, Al Qaeda.

• 2:37:46Speaker 03

  And in Iraq, the dictator Saddam Hussein was out. Then Army transferred the power to State Department. And some Foreign Service officers at the State Department were idiot enough to go and sign the contract with Harvard Law School. And a guy called Noah Feldman, he's a professor, constitutional law professor at Harvard Law School, but he's dumb. He decided, he led the team to draft Constitution for Iraq.

• 2:38:17Speaker 03

  And he went to use help of Iranian regime. They did the same for Afghanistan too. And you know what came out of it? They called Islam as official religion in the constitution of Afghanistan and Iraq after war. If he is a constitutional law professor from Harvard Law School, he should know in a well-written constitution, we cannot have official religion. We should not have it. He failed that. And because of that, the nation of Iraq and Afghanistan failed. Right now, State Department should create an office. They don't need, when a change is happening, right now Lebanon needs a new constitution. Syria needs a new constitution.

• 2:39:01Speaker 03

  For Gaza, they need a constitution. For Iran, soon they need a new constitution. It should be an office to oversee the constitution drafting process around the world. If they want to be friends with the United States, they should follow that path. State Department should have that office to make sure the next constitution for these new nations are coming up is not full of ideology. And please, President Trump, support Constitutional Assembly for Iranian opposition. And please, don't go to meet Reza Pahlavi or any other person who claims,

• 2:39:44Speaker 03

  self-proclaim himself or herself as leader. It should be a Constitutional Assembly. And then, if American government, the President Trump's government, and Israeli government, Benjamin Netanyahu's government, if they support that Constitutional Assembly, that the Don did.

• 2:40:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Have they met yet? Has President met with Reza Pahlavi?

• 2:40:08Speaker 03

  No, and he doesn't want to meet him.

• 2:40:10Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you know that?

• 2:40:11Speaker 03

  He said that. He said, "Let's see the people Iran, what they are going for." Reza Pahlavi have been in Washington DC for the last 47 years. If President Trump wanted to meet him... It should happen up to now, but President Trump is smart enough. You know what? For last 250 years of history of this country, United States never created a kingdom and never supported the absolute king. Never did that. United States is all about constitutional republic, even for Japan. When they drafted the constitution...

• 2:40:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Shiva, Shiva, to me, to me, I don't want to get sidetracked and we got to wrap up. To me, if RP has been in DC for 47 years, and he's been in DC for the last 11 years with the president being there, the fact that he has not been proactive to go meet with him is not a reflection of the president. It's a reflection of him.

• 2:41:09Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 2:41:09Patrick Bet-David?

  That's, that's my problem.

• 2:41:11Speaker 04

  I think there is a good reason.

• 2:41:12Speaker 03

  And President Trump is not going to be the first president during last 250 years to go and sign any absolute power for any country. President Trump doesn't want his name to be in history like that.

• 2:41:24Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm curious, what's your reason?

• 2:41:26Speaker 04

  I already gave the answer, but I think you might have forgotten. The Crown Prince is not a lobbyist and is not a political activist.

• 2:41:34Speaker 03

  He is, he have been doing lobbying.

• 2:41:35Speaker 04

  He is, he is the descendant of the throne of the Pahlavi, one of the most celebrated and glorious history, 50 years history, half a century history of Iran. And he is not going to reduce himself to the person who will go to the White House and knock on their door. Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi will sit down with President Trump when he has mandate by the Iranian people to be respected as an equal leader that will sit across the table with the President Trump. And I think President Trump respects that.

• 2:42:07Speaker 03

  You want President Trump to come and kiss Reza Pahlavi, His Highness's ring?

• 2:42:11Speaker 04

  No, I said... The prince, the crown prince is waiting...

• 2:42:17Speaker 03

  He's not crown prince.

• 2:42:18Speaker 04

  He's the crown prince.

• 2:42:19Speaker 03

  Where? When?

• 2:42:20Speaker 04

  Okay, let's not sidetrack because he wants to wrap up. But he, I think he has been patiently and wisely waiting to get the political mandate from the Iranian people. And the last three weeks, Iranian people, by paying with their blood, they gave him the mandate that he is an undisputed leader of Iran's revolution for national revolution. And I think now you will see the kind of activity from Crown Prince that you have never seen before. And I didn't expect to see that before because, to be quite honest with you, the Iranian people had not given him the kind of mandate that they have given him in the last three weeks. Now, it is, it's a new ballgame in Iranian politics and Iranian opposition.

• 2:43:03Speaker 04

  You, I mean, fortunately, America is coming to conclude their relationship with the Islamic Republic. President Trump is going to wrap it up the way you are trying to wrap up this show. And I think after whatever is that he is going to do in the pursuing weeks, in the ensuing weeks with Abraham Lincoln in the region, I think you will see a Crown Prince that is highly qualified, highly vocal.

• 2:43:29Patrick Bet-David?

  So going back to constitutional monarchy?

• 2:43:32Speaker 04

  Yes, we are going to go back to the constitutional monarchy.

• 2:43:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm trying to see what he's saying.

• 2:43:36Speaker 04

  Yes, absolutely.

• 2:43:37Patrick Bet-David?

  You're saying Iran's going to go back to a constitutional monarchy?

• 2:43:39Speaker 04

  Absolutely. We are, we are going to have a country after the Islamic Republic that the executive branch, the judiciary branch, and legislative branch are completely independent of the institution of monarchy.

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  Have you had before? Any time?

• 2:43:55Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, we are constantly, life is...

• 2:43:58Speaker 03

  We never had such a thing.

• 2:43:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:44:00Speaker 03

  King was in power.

• 2:44:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think the president would support that?

• 2:44:02Speaker 04

  Absolutely, he will support that. There is no opposition leader in the horizon who will serve the mandate of President Trump in the Middle East better than Crown Prince Reza Arafat.

• 2:44:16Speaker 03

  Better than constitutional assembly for Iran.

• 2:44:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, let me say this to you, to wrap up, to wrap up and finish it up. I was just looking at the comments and I was looking at the polls. This was a very, very good conversation, especially the last hour and 20 minutes. The audience won today because they got both sides of the argument. And what made it special is that both of you were respectful to each other. Which is, you know, the, the, the community has some people that if God forbid you say something different, it's very disrespectful. I love the way this was done. I want to thank both of you guys for coming out. Uh, yourself, it was a pleasure having you on, Amir, of course you as well, your passion is felt by everybody. Dr. Kangaroo's passion is a very different kind of passion, but he's got the passion as well.

• 2:45:03Patrick Bet-David?

  And, uh, uh, for those that are watching, stay tuned at any time, anything could happen. We're going to put the link below to Amir's, uh, book for those that are interested in going into. Is there anything you would like the audience if they want to learn more about you?

• 2:45:16Speaker 04

  They can go to our website and, uh, and my YouTube page and my Columbia University page. And we have a website that has all of my scientific work, not about the politics. Uh, it's called Neurotherapeutics NYC.com. You know, people can get a lot of information about my activities, my scientific activities.

• 2:45:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Beautiful.

• 2:45:35Speaker 03

  He is brilliant.

• 2:45:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Really beautiful. Awesome. Again, thank you for coming out.

• 2:45:38Speaker 04

  You're welcome.

• 2:45:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Everybody else, we were planning on wrapping this up. Uh, uh, uh, 46 minutes ago, I got my son that came and visited me as well. I gotta take him somewhere right now. But, uh, it was great having you on. If anything happens in the next 24 to 48 hours, we are going to go live and do an emergency podcast. Stay tuned. Have a great weekend, everybody. God bless. Take care. Bye bye, bye bye.