How to Believe in Yourself When Everyone Tells You “You Can’t” | Cole Brauer - EP 820

In episode 820 of Passion Struck, Cole Brauer shares how purpose, resilience, and self-trust helped her overcome doubt, adversity, and other people’s limitations to become the first American woman to race solo, nonstop, and unassisted around the world.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01John R. Miles?

  Hey friends, what if your biggest problem isn't that you're not doing enough, but that you've spent too long proving that you are enough? You can be successful, needed, and surrounded by people and still feel completely unseen. That's the problem I explore in my new book, The Mattering Effect. I show you how we become hyper-visible for what we produce, while quietly becoming invisible to ourselves, and introduce the matter framework to help you reclaim meaning, autonomy, trust, time, energy, and reciprocity. Stop auditioning for your worth, start living from it. The Mattering Effect is available for preorder now at matteringeffect.com. What happens when you hit rock bottom? When someone tells you you're too small? When you're cut from the team?

• 0:44John R. Miles?

  When the dream you've sacrificed everything for suddenly feels like it's slipping away? Most people would take that as a sign to stop. Cole Brauer took it as a sign to keep going. She was told she was too small to compete in the Southern Ocean. And years later, she was sailing solo around the world. And when I asked her what she tells herself when everything falls apart, her answer stopped me. Take a listen.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  When you hit rock bottom is exactly what I need to go back up. While I'm at the bottom, all I can do is go up. I can't really go any lower. I wish I didn't have to hit rock bottom to find exactly where I am going in life, but maybe that's kind of the beauty of it too.

• 1:31John R. Miles?

  Hey, it's your friend John and welcome to Passion Struck. I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're a longtime listener or someone who just discovered the show, thank you for pressing play today. Maybe you've built the life you were supposed to want, but you've quietly wondered why it still doesn't feel like enough.

• 1:52John R. Miles?

  If that's you, you're in the right place. Every week, I sit down with the world's top scientists, researchers, and thinkers to uncover what it actually takes to build an intentional life that matters. Thanks for joining me. Let's get into it.

• 2:11John R. Miles?

  Welcome back to Passion Struck. This is episode 820, and we're continuing our series, The Adaptive Brain: How We Thrive in a Changing World. Over the past conversations, we've been looking at adaptation from very different angles. Angela Duckworth challenged us to look beyond grid and recognize how profoundly the people, places, and situations around us shape who we become. Then, Dr. Marty Seligman took us deeper into the question of agency, the belief that our actions can actually make a difference. And last Thursday, David Epstein helped us to rethink what it means to adapt in an unpredictable world.

• 2:54John R. Miles?

  But there's a point where ideas stop becoming theories. They have to be lived. So what happens when adaptation isn't something you can talk about in a book or study in a laboratory? What happens when you're thousands of miles from land, completely alone, and the decisions you make have consequences you can't escape? That's where today's conversation takes us. My guest is Cole Brauer, and her story is extraordinary. Cole became the first American woman to race solo, non-stop and unassisted around the world. She spent more than 130 days at sea,

• 3:37John R. Miles?

  covering roughly 27,000 nautical miles aboard her 40-foot sailboat First Light. But what makes Cole's story so compelling isn't simply the achievement. It's everything that came before it. Cole wasn't born into sailing. She didn't grow up believing this was the path her life could take. She tried different identities, changed directions, moved across the country, lived in a van, taught herself the systems of a boat, and repeatedly found herself in situations where other people told her she didn't belong. At one point, she was cut from a team and told she was too short for the Southern Ocean. A year later, she was sailing around the world alone.

• 4:21John R. Miles?

  And that brings us back to one of the deepest questions we've been exploring throughout this series. Who do we become when the circumstances around us tell us that we can't? Cole's story is a powerful reminder that sometimes the world doesn't immediately reflect back what we're capable of. Sometimes you have to believe it before anyone else does. And sometimes you have to get in the boat and find out. I am so excited for you to hear this conversation with Cole Brauer. Let's dive in. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life that matters. Now, let that journey begin.

• 5:07John R. Miles?

  I am absolutely thrilled to welcome Cole Brauer to Passion Struck. Cole, it is so great to see you.

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me. I'm super excited.

• 5:17John R. Miles?

  Cole, we're here to discuss primarily your brand-new book, First Light. But before we get into the book, I'd love to introduce you to our audience because your story is extraordinary. You're the first American woman to race solo, non-stop, and unassisted around the world. You were the only woman in the global solo challenge, if I understand it, nearly a decade younger than most of your competitors. And today, you've logged more than 100,000 nautical miles at sea, which is just amazing. When you look back, did you ever imagine this would become your life?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  No, no, of course not. I grew up in a really small town on eastern Long Island, and we had almost a dichotomy in economics. So you had super, super wealthy people that were coming out from New York City, and I grew up on the other side of the tracks. My dad did construction, and my mom had a tiny store in town, like a little retail shop. And so I grew up pretty with modest means. And I had really never seen a sailboat, not anything that crazy, not like what I'm seeing now in France or even out of Newport or Rhode Island or anything like that. And so I went into the fishing scene because that was what's successful growing up on eastern Long Island.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  And you get along with everybody because they all come from the same place, and we all have the same economic means, and we all go to school together. And so I could have never imagined myself as a sailor. And even when I joined sailing quite late, around 19 years old, my friends who are fishermen made so much fun of me because they were like, "Oh, how could you be a wafty?" Which is derogatory, so I won't say it on here. It's wind-assisted effing idiot, which is... All my fishing friends used to, they were like appalled that I could be so traitorous to them to go be a sailor instead of working on fishing boats.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  But fishing boats is what helped me grow up. I don't get seasick or anything like that, which on fishing boats smelling diesel and clam juice and dirtiness is...

• 7:34Speaker 01

  You learn really quickly not to get seasick.

• 7:38John R. Miles?

  Yeah, my father is the exact opposite. He loved sailing, and so when I owned my first powerboat, he was like, "How could you just want me like that?"

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's a very, these types of communities, they're so tight. You have the sailing community, you have the motorboat community, and they're like, whoo, thick as thieves for sure. They'll be battling it out. You're in Florida. So they're always battling it out down there because you're always on the water.

• 8:09John R. Miles?

  If I have it right, where you grew up on Long Island was almost like a nature preserve, so to speak. So is that where you first realized that the ocean wasn't just something you enjoyed? It was where you belonged, or did that come after that?

• 8:27Speaker 01

  No, yeah, it was always there. I always, from a very young age, loved being out in nature. And yeah, my backyard was an actual nature preserve. I feel quite lucky. That's the way that I was brought up. And a lot of people on eastern Long Island, they felt the same. We grew up with a lot of nature. The community really puts in a ton of work to keep these natural resources natural. And so I really appreciate that. And I can still go back to my hometown, and everything's pretty much exactly the same. And that was such a belonging for me because when you're a child and you're growing up and you have angst and you have anger

• 9:10Speaker 01

  and you have frustrations, and then you turn into a teenager and it gets even worse, you kind of need an outlet to be able to go and do things, especially growing up in a really small town where there's nothing to do, nothing. The bowling alley closed when I was like in high school. And so then there really, in the wintertime, there was really nothing to do other than to get yourself into trouble. And everyone knew everybody. And just to keep me from falling off the deep end like everybody else, nature was, and really felt like, "Oh, I can always breathe deep here. This is my sanctuary."

• 9:50John R. Miles?

  Well, I understand that, I'm gonna phrase it this way. I think a lot of people think that they have to have a predestined map to get to where they want in life. And I think your story is really interesting because as I've heard you talk in other interviews, you wouldn't have described yourself as the best high school student. And you started out your career, if I understand it, going to Savannah and you went to art school. And then you, because of a health issue with your mom, you got into nutrition and then pivoted at one point because you thought you might become a doctor and that led you to the University of Hawaii.

• 10:34John R. Miles?

  And had it not been that move to the University of Hawaii, you probably would have never discovered this passion for sailing, or it might have caught up to you at a different point in your life. Can you kind of take us how you discovered it at that point?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  It was a really, when you're young and already naturally adventurous, like in your own mindset, like I was willing to try everything and throw the spaghetti against the wall and meet lots of people and travel. And none of these things scared me because they were just exciting. And I was like, oh, I'm young and I'm fit and this is what I want to do. I'm just gonna keep on going until I find my place. And I still love art. That was what the social media was for me, like all the reels and everything were me making them and editing them. And that's actually my art background.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  I had been doing art forever and then went to Savannah and then with my mom, getting diagnosed with cancer. It totally flipped the script. And I also was not in a great place mentally. And I was like, I really need to restart my life a little bit, like at 18 years old. It's like, we just scrapped the whole thing and figure it out. And I applied to the University of Hawaii. I mainly, I just, I saw a beautiful photo of Hawaii on Google, like the Google webpage front. And I was like, wow, I've never been there. That seems like a really cool place. And then I applied, I got in and I bought a plane ticket and that was it.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  And then I told my mom I was moving to Hawaii, which she wasn't super stoked, but she loved it eventually because she came out for all my spring breaks and things like that. And it worked out really well because Hawaii is such a wonderful place. There's a lot less drinking. I would say there's almost no drinking. Everyone's super healthy. Everyone takes care of themselves and their neighbors. And it became such a community for me and I really needed that. I needed to be almost like held for a little bit before I could stand on my own feet. And the sailing community came up mainly because I was swimming every day, trying to get the city grime, like the Waikiki city grime off of me.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  And so I was swimming and I used to see these little boats just sailing back and forth on Waikiki beach. And I was like, wow, that kind of looks cool. And I'm in this big city and I don't really like cities. Maybe I just see if there's some form of recreational sport with the water. Maybe it's paddling, maybe it's sailing. I don't know. I was super open, very open to anything. It could have been like Polynesian paddle. It could have been, but I ended up Googling sailing first and up popped the University of Hawaii sailing team. And I emailed the coach and then I lied on the email and said I had all this experience and that I was, would love to come and try out.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  And I think you could tell that we've never heard of this girl. She's not some high school sailing star that's come out of Connecticut, where a lot of the high school sailing stars come out of. And so I showed up and then I just never left. And Hawaii is such an amazing place, which makes it really different actually than a lot of sailing communities, because you can sail all year round in Hawaii. Every day is Groundhog Day. Every day is the exact same weather. It's 86 and sunny. So you don't know if it's January or if it's July. Every day is exactly the same. And that type of consistency, sailing every day and racing, I had, it was the most tedious thing I've ever done.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  But also I became so much more of a professional so quickly. I didn't have to be brought up into this community at 10 years old and have an optee and then move forward in that way. It was like, okay, here's college sailing. You're in, we're doing it. And it was super intensive, but I kind of needed that type of discipline. When you're in your early twenties and I wasn't doing the best stuff when I was back at home. I was a pretty bad kid. I was just an adventurous kid stuck in a bubble. And so that's what made me a bad kid, I think. I don't think I was actually inherently a bad person or a bad kid.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  I just was the environment that I was in this tiny little town and not having an outlet to put all of my energy. I think that's actually what made me doing the bad things and ending up with some cop situation every once in a while. And which was a small town. And so they knew my last name. They were like, ah, it's one of the Browers. Okay, we've seen this before. So it was, at least it was a small town. So I got let go and didn't end up ruining my life. But I think that type of environment is super important to belonging and super important to like how you can grow. And I felt like, oh, I finally had a bigger, I was like a plant. Now I had a bigger pot to grow into.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  And so Hawaii and sailing kind of was melded together as this comfort zone, this beautiful little comfort zone. And I also had no friends or family that lived in Hawaii. So all of a sudden I had like 30 friends who had the same type of drive and commitment to this sport that I was on my way to doing also. I recommend it to everyone, moving to Hawaii, starting sailing, because it's, wow, it will change your life forever.

• 16:16John R. Miles?

  I understand you had a kind of a pivotal moment. You had also tried out for the cheerleading squad, which you had a background in. And you at first thought sailing might be just a casual community type of activity where you could meet people. And then your coach kind of gave you an ultimatum.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  He was really strong about it. He was like, we're NCAA varsity, division one. There's no BS here. You're either on the team or you're off the team. We're not a charity here. And that kind of put me into overdrive. Okay, this is my sport. This is what I'm gonna do. And if I hate it in a year, I'll just quit, whatever. It was, at least it was a good moment for me to test some skills and whatever. But it was, I stuck with it. I don't know, having, also, it's so addicting. Sailing is such an addicting sport because you're out in nature, you're working with the wind, you're learning every single day. And every single day is also a super challenge, super hard.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  The sport is an incredibly hard sport and it's a lifelong sport. So you, you get into sailing and you're, you can really get hooked. And I think the best part about what I was doing was I was in school, so I didn't have to pay for anything. So it wasn't like I had to have a full-time job to be able to pay for sailing. I think that's also something I always tell people because there's a lot of people that always ask me, how did you have the money to be able to afford going and doing the sailing thing? Sailing is, I'm like, just to all the audience out there, sailing is a sport. It is, it's like having a horse. It is super expensive. But the way the United States works is that if you're 18 to 24,

• 18:03Speaker 01

  you can go onto a sailing team at the university. And if you're on a varsity sport, the school pays for it. They pay for everything, the uniforms, they pay for you to get on the bus, to go to the practice, wherever it is. And it's like, how can you beat that? All I had to buy was, I didn't even have to buy the life jackets provided. I think I had to buy the shoes. I had to buy the shoes and the gloves, which, so for four years of sailing, and they gave you kit, so you didn't have to pay for any kit, which kit's super expensive. I'm sponsored, thank God, by Now a Kit Company that does all my foul weather gear, but it's super expensive. So maybe I was like a hundred bucks in for four years or something.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  You do have to pay for gloves a couple of times, but, because you'll run through them. But you can do sailing in a cheap, affordable way. And so I think so many people are pushed out of sailing because I think it's really expensive and it's really hard to get into, but there is ways to get around it. There's ways to do it in the vagabond like way with it, when you're a college kid and you have no money.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Or even if you're not in college and you're 30, there's still ways to do it without having to go out and buy a super expensive boat. And you can still have just as much fun as anyone else.

• 19:23John R. Miles?

  We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Cole Brauer. And if you're listening, I want you to think about one question. Where in your life have you allowed someone else's definition of you to become your own? Cole's story is a powerful reminder that the environments we're in, the challenges we face, and the people who believe or doubt us can shape what we believe is possible. That's a theme I'm exploring in my upcoming book, The Mattering Effect, coming just a few weeks from now on October 6th. Because when people feel that they matter, they don't simply feel better. They become more willing to participate, contribute, take risks and believe their actions can make a difference.

• 20:06John R. Miles?

  If this conversation is resonating with you, share it with someone who needs a reminder that their circumstances don't get to write the final chapter of their story. And if you haven't already, be sure you follow Passion Struck on YouTube, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Now, a quick break for our sponsors. Thank you for supporting those who support the show.

• 20:31John R. Miles?

  You're listening to Passion Struck right here on the Passion Struck Network. Now, back to my conversation with Cole Brower. Cole, I'm glad you brought up sailing addiction. And at this point, I should probably tell listeners that I have had a bit of a lifelong sailing addiction myself. My dad, who I previously mentioned, was a big sailor. He used to do the Chicago to Mackinac Island race when he was younger. And so when I was eight or nine years old, he, I never did the opties, but he introduced me to first butterflies, then sailfish. And then I went to a rebel and then eventually got good enough that he trusted me with a laser. And man, I can't even tell

• 21:12John R. Miles?

  you how many times he made me capsize sailboats, just so I would never have the fear of it. And then later, I sailed offshore at the Naval Academy, and then, living here in Tampa Bay, I've raced for years, just so the audience has a bit of my background. But reading your memoir, there were moments where I thought, man, I know exactly what she's talking about. And then there were moments I realized, I absolutely have no idea of what you've experienced, because I've never been alone in the middle of the Southern Ocean, or off of the Cape. And what is it about the ocean that you think captures people so completely?

• 21:55Speaker 01

  I think it's the peacefulness. I think we, as kids, were taught to fear nature, and mainly because a lot of people don't understand nature. They don't understand why all of a sudden this rain cloud comes over and rains on top of them, or why that breeze picks up their umbrella on the beach and throws it around. If you understand the physics and what's actually happening, and that nature doesn't make anything up, like she really doesn't, you start to not be so afraid of these storms and these weather patterns, because they're fairly consistent. They've been consistent for 10,000 years. And so, there's something so predictable about it. And a lot of people think nature

• 22:38Speaker 01

  is unpredictable. But it's like, if you touch a dog the wrong way, the dog bites you, right? Nature is exactly the same way. If you go up against nature and think you're gonna win, you're gonna lose. It's just, to me, it's common sense, but it's also common sense, because I've been there, trying to figure something out, and then realizing that I'm actually just not paying attention to what she really needs in that moment. And I think that's what makes it addicting, is that it, nature is so beautiful and very predictable, but it takes so much time to learn her, that you're always kind of learning. And that addiction to learning is, I think, what the addiction is. It's this constant, oh my

• 23:19Speaker 01

  God, look how beautifully these stars are, and watching them as they move. When we're in our tiny little boxes, our homes, or offices, or just driving in our car to one air-conditioned place, to the next air-conditioned place, we miss out on a lot of these wonderful moments that when we do start walking down the street, you can be like, oh, well, oh, I see this storm coming. I'm afraid of that. But that storm would be coming to hit you with or without you there. That storm is, that's coming. And I don't know why I feel quite

• 23:55Speaker 01

  comfortable about that. The storm is not against us. And teachings in our schooling, our very Anglo-Saxon, Western teachings, is like, to fear things. Oh, you must be fearful of everything around you. And I think, growing up in nature, I didn't grow up with that type of fear. I was much more afraid of humans. Oh, my God, significantly. Humans, like, I was walking across the street yesterday, and this guy was, like, honked at me. And I was like, I'm in a crosswalk. This is what I thought was predictable, but it's not predictable.

• 24:35Speaker 01

  That's a fear in my world. So that's why sailing around the world alone, I technically wasn't alone. And that's actually why I ended up picking the subtitle, Sailing Solo But Not Alone. Because I was lonely, but there's such a big feeling than having a little bit of homesickness and tinges of loneliness, and then actually being alone. I didn't really feel alone, if that makes any sense. That might not have made it.

• 25:07John R. Miles?

  It makes complete success. And I want to explore that more as we get into the journey and the race and all that. I did want to bring up something that I thought was really important. A lot of people ask me about this podcast, and they ask, how have you done 800 episodes? Have you gotten?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  That's a lot.

• 25:28John R. Miles?

  How have you done what you've done? And I always say, when I got into it, I learned everything about it. I spent about two years researching it, understanding how to edit, how to film, how to talk, how to do all this stuff. And before you were on TV, and before you were in People Magazine and all these things, the backstory is, you're living out of a van, and you're teaching yourself, like, how engines work, how electronics work, how you do rigging, all these things, pretty much every system from the ground up of how a boat works. Most people, I think, and they ask, they think the same thing of me, they

• 26:12John R. Miles?

  see it as a sacrifice. But as I was reading your story, it almost felt like purpose. Like, you felt this inner purpose. Is that what kept you going during those years when things were a real struggle?

• 26:26Speaker 01

  For sure. I think having a purpose for anyone, it doesn't matter if you've got six kids, and two jobs, and things like that, like, what gets you up in the morning is what's important. And what got me up in the morning, every single day, was working on boats. And this kind of internal drive to move forward in my career, which was sailing. And it really wasn't about, it really wasn't about the money, because there's really not that much in it. And there, it wasn't about fame, for sure not. That was such a shock, coming back to land after my round the world race, and all of a sudden, everyone knew

• 27:10Speaker 01

  me in airport bathrooms I was being recognized in. And that was really weird, I have to say. I wasn't prepared for that. And that's not why I did it. Most people don't get famous off of sailing, ever, because it's such a tiny sport. And I was doing it mainly because of purpose. And you're so right. Being able to wake up and do something that then makes the boat better, more efficient, faster, lighter, whatever it may be, is why a lot of us in the sailing industry get up in the morning. And the sailing world is not an easy community to be in. It's a community, but it's super hard, and you're on so many

• 27:50Speaker 01

  deadlines. And it's a hard industry, a super hard industry. And I always say, if I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it. I've always said that about everything that I've ever done. And I still love it. And that's why when people were like, oh, are you gonna retire? And I finished my race at 29 years old. And I was like, I'm not gonna retire at 29, I'm just starting. The whole goal of me going around the world was so that I could get paid better, because now they can't deny me from a job, because I clearly have the experience. The whole point of me going around the world was, there's like, three different reasons. One was so that I could show myself that I could do it. Two, show the rest of

• 28:34Speaker 01

  the world that I could do it. And three, I wanted to show every little girl and boy who's coming up into this industry, and feeling like, wow, this is so hard, I can't do this. And then see my story, and say, holy crap, okay, she had it really hard. I can do this too. I can make this work. And maybe if I follow her pathway, which was what you said before, learning everything on the boat, the rigging, electrical, mechanical, and then taking a crack at pro sailing, which is, you know, we have two sections of the sport. We have the tech team, like the shore crew, and then we have the racers. And so, I realized

• 29:15Speaker 01

  that my way to get into the racing position was by doing the tech team. And it's not guaranteed, if you're the best shore crew ever, that you will eventually end up as a racer. Normally, that doesn't happen. And that was pretty much why solo sailing was like, okay, well, I think I can be a tech team, a really good shore crew, but I'm also gonna show everyone that, hey, I'm a racer also.

• 29:43John R. Miles?

  I love it. I don't know about you, but I always feel like, there are some boats that just speak to you, and there are others that don't. For me, I've always loved being on Melrose 24s. I love them. But I would also sail the 32, and I just didn't like, for whatever reason, I didn't like the 32 as much as the 24. It doesn't feel as intimate. It just, it wasn't as fun. But you end up encountering this boat, called First Light, name of your book, which enters your life. And one thing I loved about the way you described First Light, is you don't describe meeting a boat, you almost describe it as meeting a companion. And I think, from a sailor's perspective, I got it. Other people might

• 30:26John R. Miles?

  not. What was it about a boat, First Light, that made you feel so connected almost immediately?

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I was living on a boat next, like in one dock over from her and I was

• 30:43Speaker 01

  this, the boat that I was living on was really small and I was kind of living under a tarp and a beanbag chair. And I remember just being like, okay, this is hard, but it's okay. Like I'm doing great. And I remember when she pulled in, when first light first pulled in and her original name was, it was called Dragon and she had a giant red dragon painted down the side of the boat. And I was like, wow. Like I had never seen a boat like that ever. And she was twice the size of the boat that I was on. And I was like, wow, that's like the most beautiful boat I've ever seen. And it was kind of like she had talked to me almost immediately. She didn't really officially start talking to me until I got a chance to deliver her from Charleston, South Carolina up

• 31:27Speaker 01

  to Stonington, Connecticut. And that was like the first time that she actually spoke to me. And I know this is going to make very much sense to a lot of people, but it's kind of like having, when you have a dog, the dog doesn't actually speak to you, but you still talk. Dog, right? You're still like, oh, you're so cute. Oh, do you food up? You still find yourself talking to your, your cat or your dog or your bird or whatever you have. That's pretty much what I was doing with first light. And I think a lot of people would have seen me as being like the crazy houseless girl who was talking to her boat and stuff, but something about first light was she was very, she felt very generous. She felt like if I did something really bad, she was like a tank. She was like, okay.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, like that hurt. Let's just pick ourselves up and keep going. Like she didn't break under whim a lot of the times. It a really good learning boat for me because she's actually got a lot of power. Like a lot of these sailboats, as you move up in the rankings, they get more and more powerful and a little bit more. I don't want to say frightening, just more like they have more oaths behind them. And you have to be a little bit more careful, like where your fingers are in space and like where your feet are in, okay, boy. This has a lot of load on it. You don't really want to get near that right now. Let's back that off a little bit. You have to be a lot more cautious than smaller boats, like the boats that I started on, or even like the Melrose twenty four. The Melrose twenty four has got, it does have a good amount of loads.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  But it has less loads than the thirty two. Where the thirty two, that's when it's like, okay, we're getting the winches out like, oof. And we gotta be really careful not to get our fingers in here. A lot of pro sailors don't have fingers. It's terrible. I don't want to say that online, but that's true. It's always a cautious thing that we're worried about. But first light felt like, even though she was quite a powerful and dangerous, but I still felt incredibly safe with her. It's super hard to explain. I, when I wrote the book, it took me the entire book to try to explain it. And pretty much like the second to last chapter of the book was me trying to explain all these feelings that I had with first light.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  And nature and everything. And the second to last chapter was actually the longest chapter and I had to cut it down because my publisher like, this is too much. It's not an encyclopedia. It's much more concise than it used to be during the first draft, but yeah, that's a very long-winded answer of why I fell in love with her, but I did.

• 33:59John R. Miles?

  Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about with the book. I turned in my initial draft, my upcoming book, and I was twenty five thousand words too long. So imagine having to come back and cut that because it's not like you just cut one chapter. You gotta cut it throughout.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  Oh, it's really hard and you have to really brutal think about it. You have to go into it like, because if you, if you become too attached to a lot of these words, then it's like really hard. I had to go in and just with a, I printed out my whole book and multiple times. And print it out, put it in a binder. I'm much more of a pen and paper girl. And then big X's. Okay, this chapter. Big, huge X's. And then I would just go then online almost and put blinders on. And not read it again and be like, nope, I made the decision. I was cutting this. That's what I'm gonna do because it's like giving stuff away to Goodwill. You put stuff in the bag and then you're going to Goodwill and you're like, well, maybe I ate these pair of jeans I could still wear one day.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  That was like the book for me.

• 35:06John R. Miles?

  Colas, as I was reading the book and trying to learn you, it seemed like the first part of your career, you talked about loneliness. It seemed like in this stage, a lot of it had to do with belonging. Because a lot of people, it seemed like underestimated you and what you were capable of. In fact, you, you, you're not like a, a six foot tall person and people would tell you're simply too small to do some of this ocean racing. Another sailor even questioned whether you'd even be able to finish a race.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:42John R. Miles?

  Do you think looking back, that early part of your career was really spent proving that you belonged?

• 35:49Speaker 01

  For sure. I think that you can't think about it so much because if you think about it so much, it will bring you down. A lot of times I just, I had this almost internal confidence in myself. That, hey, I could do it. And I actually say it's like the heartbeat. You have really good moments and then something really bad happens. And then you have really good moments and then when you have these ups and downs in your confidence level and you almost like, when you hit rock bottom, the way to get yourself out of that rock bottom, when you're just sulking and you're like, wow, this really sucks. And I just got fired from this thing and I really wanted to do this, or I got cut from this team or whatever. I always had to change my mindset and say, okay, well, I'm at the bottom. All I can do is go up. I can't really go any lower.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  And something about that drove me really hard. Actually being in the worst possible with someone underestimating you is exactly what I need to go back up. It's almost when I'm at the top and I'm like more where I'm like, oh no, I'm like, I'm gonna drop down. That's why I actually, I do speak a lot in the book about these hardships and about these things that kind of happened that were like pivotal moments in my life. And in my sailing career that just, you know, like a knife in the gut. And when you feel just so close to rock bottom, I'm like, all right, I know I'm about to be successful. I know that it's coming. And that was pretty much

• 37:16Speaker 01

  exactly what had happened with my around the world race and the funding coming through from the sponsors was the year before the funding came through, I gotten cut from this really big team. And they had told me I was too short for the Southern Ocean and how could I ever believe that I could ever be on this team? And I was like completely crushed because I had flown all the way to France. From the US, I had dropped out of some paid gigs so that I could do this because it was a dream of mine. And then after getting cut from that, exactly a year later, I was sailing, I was starting my around the world race solo. And so I had hit such rock bottom in that moment, that October, I was like,

• 38:00Speaker 01

  okay, now there's like nothing that's gonna stop me at all. I'm ready. But I don't recommend hitting rock bottom to then find what you're but if you do, you are in the middle of rock bottom and let's say you're going through like a horrible divorce or like something's gone wrong or a death in the family, or you've had some form of disease or something that's going on in your own life and your health and your wellness, like I, you gotta be thinking, okay, this is my rock bottom. Like this is it. Now like, there's nothing else is gonna bring me down. Like I'm already here. I'm here. Like I'm at least on the ground. I'm not falling anymore. I've stopped the falling. I've stopped the bleeding.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Now it's time to pick yourself up, dry your tears. I do a lot of crying in the car. Just climb back up that water. And that's the way I always run my life. I wish I didn't have to hit rock bottom to find exactly where I am going in life, but maybe that's kind of the beauty of it too. Is that it's not supposed to be easy. If life was easy, all of us would be severely like bored.

• 39:13Speaker 01

  Like really bored.

• 39:15John R. Miles?

  Well, I don't think had I not hit rock bottom, I went through that divorce. I went through things like that. And on the other side of it, I am doing what I do now, which is completely different than what I did before. And I don't think had I not gone through that and went through the relearning of self, that I would be doing what I'm doing now. So I think sometimes God or the universe gives you these wake up calls to push you to do what you're supposed to do.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Sometimes it happens at the, the best moment, but maybe in that moment, it doesn't feel like it's the best moment. But sometimes it's like the best possible moment where it's like, okay, I still have a whole life to live. Let's just restart. And I've done, I always tell people I've done like nine restarts and I'm only thirty two.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  I've tried different things. I've gone to school for different things. I was in art, then I was in medicine, then I'm a pro sailor. Like I've, I think it's a total myth that you have to be born predestined to be something and then still do that by the time you're in your thirties or forties or even fifties. I think you could, you can quit that job you hate, take your money and go do something that you really enjoy. And life can be affordable, just in different circumstances. It really can. I lived in a van. I still live in my van. I'm in an Airbnb in Hawaii, in France right now, but my van was super cheap. And I made it my own. I just sew my own curtains and stuff, but that was cool because I learned how to sew.

• 40:51Speaker 01

  Which now I use sewing all the time in the sailing world for different things. I think everything happens for a reason. And honestly, it was my mom who was really good at that. My mom wasn't super happy that I was leaving art school to go to a completely different school, pretty much across the world. And I was nervous at one point, my first or second month moving to Hawaii. I was like, wow, did I do something wrong? Was this stupid? Um, and she was like, no, you learned stuff at Savannah College of Art and Design. You learned amazing things and they made you who you are. Like you don't lose any of that learning ever. You're just creating this beautiful human being who now knows art and now medicine. And now I'm

• 41:36Speaker 01

  know weird things about sailing.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  A lot of tips and tricks about sailing, actually.

• 41:47John R. Miles?

  Well, Cole, you talked about having this low point. You come off this team, you give up these paid gigs in order to do it. And then you find yourself standing on a dock some months later, knowing that you're about ready to spend four plus months alone at sea. With this as the backdrop, what is going through your mind in those final moments before you're cast, before you're casting off?

• 42:14Speaker 01

  The thing that I never say, but I'll say now, I couldn't wait to get off that dock. I was so excited. I was like, everyone get off my boat. It's her and I time. It's, this is her and I just need everyone off the boat. Because I used to tell the team all the time, it's time to stop painting the painting. The painting is done. She's perfect. Even if she wasn't perfect, like there was things that were missing and we could have done better things. There was a lot of things we could have done. But there's a moment when it's like, the painting is done. Everything else I can do when I'm offshore, just everyone get off my boat. Let me go. It's time. I just gotta be out there. And there's something, there's just like, you're calling.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  And so me standing on the dock saying goodbye to everyone, I had wanted to do that the month before. And then I still had to wait for my race start. And so I was super ready. And I was enjoying my time in Spain. I love Alcarunia and I love Spain. But I was definitely like, all right, I'm done. I'm ready. Let's go. I will do anything to be out there in the middle of the ocean. It's, yeah, she calls to you for sure.

• 43:24John R. Miles?

  Well, you talked about loneliness earlier on, and at one point, you describe after you were early in the race, something called the scaries. And you already talked about, you're not really fearful of storms and you weren't really fearful of equipment failure. Was it more the realization that you began questioning your own sense of self?

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Yes, for sure. There was moments when I felt like the world had been ripped from me. So it was about two weeks after the start, like those 14 days after the start. It's like, I was so used to being surrounded by my team. And then all of a sudden, you're, there's no weaning off period. All of a sudden, you're just out from your team. And I, we did dinners every night together. We knew everything about each other. There's this passionate bond with you and your team. And they care so much about you and the boat and the whole campaign. And then all of a sudden, it's just gone. And I was like, wow, this is insane. And I, the scaries is something, I know a lot of people actually feel it, like the Sunday scaries.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  And it's this anxiety. So it wasn't really a fear or anything. It's just like this, this constant anxiety that's kind of eating you alive a little bit. And I missed my family. I missed my friends. I missed my team. And the way that I actually got through that was, one, my mother told me, like, in just so many words, to suck it up. And she's good at that. She's my like, strong rock in my life. And she was like, this is what you've wanted to do for so long. Just, you're in it. Enjoy it. And then two, I needed to start looking outside. I needed to start participating with nature, the same that we talked at the beginning of this interview, like,

• 45:19Speaker 01

  participating in nature makes everything feel more predictable, which also helps anxiety. Looking outside and reading the clouds was just so beautiful for me. And I'm glad that I was able to actually take those moments and just watch the world go around. And that really calmed everything. Doing little bits of exercise, because a lot of sailing is sitting, you're doing a lot of upper body work, but not very much with your legs, like actually forcing you to stand up and do leg exercises and keep your body moving, make your food, drink your water, take care of yourself.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  There's no one there to be like, oh, don't worry about it. I know you're depressed a little bit. I'll just make you food or, oh, I'll just go out to dinner. That doesn't exist. There's nothing out there. If you're depressed, it is like, all right, we gotta buckle up and handle this because this is gonna be a really long race if we don't. And you can make yourself totally crazy out there. Or you can learn to truly love yourself and feel these feelings and then not be afraid of them and understand what your mind is telling you. Our minds with different hormones and different thoughts and our environment is always telling us negative things. And it's not silencing the negative things. It's just

• 46:43Speaker 01

  understanding that your brain is doing this and different ways that you can try to deal with it. Because the negative thoughts go away. They never go away. They just get taken over with the positive things. And if you can learn not to be afraid of the negative, the positive comes back even better.

• 47:05John R. Miles?

  For me, sailing has always been a mindfulness exercise, even those days where it really sucks and you've got no wind at all and you're just sitting there baking in the sun. I still, like you said, reading the clouds, the waves, in that case, they're not too many waves, but you're still reading the body of water, but more, I'm looking at the birds. I'm paying attention to the smells, the sounds that the boat makes. And there comes a point, I think, that you stop consciously sailing. You're no longer thinking about every sheet or every sail adjustment. At least that's how it is for me. You start feeling the boat. And

• 47:50John R. Miles?

  to me, it's like the boat starts communicating through their motion, their sounds, the pressure on the helm, the noise that the jib is making. And I wondered, like, when you were out there on that trip, it, did it feel you were not only sailing, but you were start, starting to feel like a partner in some ways?

• 48:14Speaker 01

  First light and I became very close. You're in solitary confinement for a very long time.

• 48:19John R. Miles?

  And but describe that, because a person who's not a sailor or not a boater is gonna hear this and be like, she's talking about a boat. What is she talking about?

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a little hard to describe. I think that's actually what the, the whole premise of the book is me trying to figure out how to describe the beautiful relationship that I had with her. That's why I named the book First Light, because it, after I wrote the whole book, which it's my memoir, but it became almost a love story to First Light, more than just this. It was really, it's a story about my life, but you can't really have my life without her. And so it is more of a love story towards her. And yes, she's an inanimate object. So that doesn't make a lot of sense to most people, but the relationship that I had with her was because

• 49:10Speaker 01

  she saw everything in me, the good, the bad, the ugly, and she still sailed right along. And she had this, just this beautiful generous way of handling me, which I know that sounds totally crazy to say out loud, but it's hard to explain, sitting in a chair, talking through a computer, but it's one of those feelings where I always had a hard time with humans growing up. Like I, I had friends, but not like the closest of friends, some. But with her, it was like, it was like falling in love with my own self-conscious.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  Which as most people grow up, they don't really love themselves and they have a hard time with being able to true themselves for who they are. And First Light was holding up a mirror to me and a good mirror. And she was showing me like, hey, you can do anything and you can really make anything happen. And I think it's super important for people to hear that it's not

• 50:18Speaker 01

  It doesn't have to be a boat. It doesn't, this could be anything. This could be just your dog, or this could be your daughter, or your son. This doesn't have to be just a boat of some sorts. But also, what made First Light really amazing was that I got the opportunity to spend so much time with her completely alone. And so there's no distractions. There's nobody there who's got a different vibe and bringing on different energies onto the boat. It's fully predictable and under control. Your little forty foot space. And that's also, I recommend it to anybody. If you're really struggling with something, I recommend having some alone time. Just be careful with that alone time, because sometimes it will make you go crazy.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  You have to get over the hump. And the hump was that the fourteen days of me pretty much going crazy. And then after the fourteen days, I was like, okay, this is actually really wonderful. And I need to, I need to enjoy this because it's actually really cool that I get to experience this.

• 51:20John R. Miles?

  So I think almost every listener knows Everest, and they know how difficult and how elusive it is for people to climb Everest. To put that in perspective, for a sailor approaching Cape Horn is like the sailors Everest, except there are far few sailors who actually cross Cape Horn than there are people who climb Everest. And if I understand it, here you're approaching Cape Horn, you're racing for this remarkable finish. And then there are two massive weather systems that force you to make a decision. You can either go for the win, or you protect the boat. And you chose the boat. And I asked you that question before this, so people could understand why.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  I chose the boat. I chose myself. I really wanted to just, with First Light, she is a tank, and we talked about that before. But there's also a moment when you have to understand that she still has weaknesses. And the same way, us as humans, we believe that we are super strong, but we still have our kryptonite. And I knew in that instance, when I call in the book, these two storms that are coming down, kind of hunting me. I call them thing one and thing two. And they were a thing. And you're right, the decision, there was a really crazy tactical decision of, okay, well, do I push through as hard as possible, go

• 52:44Speaker 01

  for the win, or do I kind of take giant detours, and giant, like, two hundred mile detours to avoid this storm, these two storms. And I made the decision. And you have to almost sit in silence with yourself and be like, oh, I've been racing so hard for this whole time. And now I absolutely know it's impossible for me to win this race. There's no way for me to win it. And I didn't cry. I didn't get upset.

• 53:15John R. Miles?

  Yeah.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Because I knew that protecting First Light was like my main priority. And because she's my baby, she's my everything. We always say that the boat is your first life raft. Your life raft that's sitting on the back of the boat, that's your second life raft. That's if you're getting into the light, into the actual life raft that's there, that's a big no-no. Your first life raft is your vessel, and she's your trusty steed, she's your horse, she's your companion. And choosing to

• 53:50Speaker 01

  that, that was a no-brainer, to be completely honest. That was such a no-brainer for me because she was my best friend.

• 54:00John R. Miles?

  Yeah, I think the question that really struck me is, as I was reading, was, what I've experienced offshore is, it's completely different than you. Because for me, no matter how difficult the conditions get, there's always been someone else on the boat. Someone to take the helm, someone to help troubleshoot, someone to simply say, I need help. You didn't have that. What is the psychological weight like of literally knowing there's no one coming to relieve you? You have to make these decisions. You have to live with the consequences.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  I didn't think about it too much. That sounds terrible. But I think I'm a naturally morbid person. I talk about death in my everyday experience. And I talk about my own death and other people's death. And I think that just comes from, my parents were really open about these things. They didn't want us to fear it, because, oh, you're gonna lose your grandparents one day, and you'll lose us one day. And, and so it was quite a normal conversation. So I think being brought up with the family that I have, they did try to preemptive me, like, in this world. And I think I always knew, okay, well, if something goes wrong, we can't be scared of death. We're just gonna have to, we're gonna have to run out of the

• 55:21Speaker 01

  problem and do our steps. So we had come up with steps for almost everything. Okay, well, if you lose your leg, okay, step one, step two, step three, what's your steps? And we did that with medical, we did that with the electrical system, the rigging, and we did it with like composite. So if we got a hole in the bow, what's the stepwise? We went through all these different things where it takes away a little bit of the emotional side when something really bad goes wrong. And I think that's super important, is that when something goes wrong, you need to take the emotional side out of it, because it does cloud your judgment a lot of times. And you have to turn into a robot. Like, I'm a Gemini. And

• 56:00Speaker 01

  so I am fully, I live two different lives. I have the fully emotional, lovey, fun, soft human. And then my other side is robotic, and it's hard, and it's very linear, and very organized, and strict. And I swim through these two different personalities that are, that kind of embrace me. And I think that's actually quite lucky to have when you're sailing solo, because you're not just sailing with one person. At least you have two different personalities you can kind of grab on to. Something goes wrong. Okay, I've got personality number two. Okay, it's a beautiful sunset. Okay, I got personality number one. That sounds crazy to say out loud, but.

• 56:44John R. Miles?

  I did want to ask you a couple of things. Valentine's Day, that experience was one of my favorite moments of the book, because it seems like you are celebrating the person who's carried you to the starting line and now further. Can you explain what happened to give the listeners some perspective?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  So I had spent every holiday on the boat. I spent Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, and then I got to Valentine's Day. And at this point, I had rounded Cape Horn, which is like the pinnacle of sailing. I had stressful experiences in the Southern Ocean. And then I get around, and it's like the sun came out. And it's so beautiful. And it was almost like time to truly feel gratitude to what had happened in my whole life, and the people that had really made my whole experience in the campaign and throughout my whole life really enjoyable. And a lot of them had been women. And First Light is also another woman that was in my life that was quite amazing. And so I celebrated that

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Valentine's Day. And I said, okay, Happy Galentine's Day. And I gave it out to all the amazing women that have made my life fabulous, like all the women on my team, my mother, and then also First Light. And I really, in that, it was a social media post that I had put out, almost like a gratitude post. And it was super fun for me, because I felt like it was a little bit of a release, like, all this pent up anxiety and things that I've been holding on to. And it was like, no, this is such a beautiful moment. I really need to enjoy it. And I need to feel gratitude to the people who have allowed me to be here and be here successfully and in a good spirit.

• 58:35John R. Miles?

  And then the other moment I really loved was, you've just sailed twenty seven thousand miles, and most people would be sprinting towards the finish line. And instead, you purposely slow the boat so that First Light could cross the line at First Light. Why was that moment so important for you?

• 58:56Speaker 01

  We had a tradition throughout the whole campaign where I kept on leaving at First Light. I was coming into different, like, when I would bring First Light places, we always arrive. And it was coincidental. And then when I was getting close to the finish line,

• 59:13Speaker 01

  There was a moment of, okay, we should probably come in at first light because at that point, I was about to hit the finish line at around one in the morning or something like that. And my whole team was like, now my whole team was so on board with, okay, we've got to come in at first light. There was no excuse. They were like, you have to come in at first light. It makes sense. It ties a bow on the whole beautiful campaign that we had all just done. And the whole team was so passionately committed to the team. And I think they knew this is what we have to do. We should just slow down a little bit and just kind of live in this moment. Which I still, the only regret I

• 59:57Speaker 01

  have is that I would have loved just to take the boat and go grab onto a mooring and just sleep for a couple hours. And that's still to this day, I'm still upset about it. And everyone, all my friends and the whole team always told me, no, no, you did the right thing. It was good. You did the interviews, grabbed the opportunity. And I still am upset about it. I'm still a little resentful about that. Because I really just wanted to enjoy that morning. I wanted to have a moment to just sleep on first light completely alone for one last time. Not moving, not having to worry about boats, or traffic, or running over fishing pots, or whatever else, just truly enjoying her company. She

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  used to make this amazing sound when, I don't speak about this in the book, but maybe I should have. When she's just on a mooring, she has this amazing sound, it's these popping bubbles. It's just the hull, just barely touches the surface of the water and then lifts back up. And it makes this little bit of a popping, crackling sound. And the first light is so thin, her fiberglass is quite thin. And so the sound is, it's such a gentle little echo through the whole cabin. And I should have wrote that in the book. The things you think after the fact. But that's what I was craving. I was craving one final

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  beautiful moment with first light, before I was like thrust into 30 hours of crazy interviews with every news station. And my whole world got flipped upside down. And I must have looked wide eyed and exhausted, trying to figure out my life after that.

• 1:01:40John R. Miles?

  And I'm gonna bring us to a close here soon. I just wanted to ask about today. So, right now, I'm talking to you in France. You're preparing for one of the premier campaigns in the world, and you're building towards what many sailors consider to be the Superbowl of offshore sailing. Take us to you today. Like, how have, did those 130 days of sailing alone prepare you for this dream you're accomplishing now?

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Honestly, it's going around the planet solo, the second that I had hit land, I had said, I would go back out, like, the next day. And so, no questions asked, I would get back on the boat and I would go around the planet again. Because it is such a wonderful experience. I think everyone should experience something like that. It doesn't have to be around the world. But just a little solo journey is, it's something so cleansing and so pure and beautiful, and something most of us will never get the opportunity. And so I'm so unbelievably grateful for that. And so I immediately went back to work to try to do it again. And so I work for a team right now, an ocean race team. And what that

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  means is that we will go around the planet in January, and I'm doing it fully crewed. So there's four of us on board. It's a 60 foot boat instead of 40 feet. We're foiling now, which is a crazy way of saying that we're flying. And it's this totally crazy new experience. I am way over my head. There's many days that I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. I feel like I don't know how to sail anymore. And it's completely such a big challenge. But honestly, going around the planet solo and feeling that challenge is the drive that I feel to do this. Is that now I'm working outside of my

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  comfort zone with a crew. We'll do stops on the next around the world race. And I'm, the challenge of it, is what makes it so fun. And what makes every day, every day, I feel like I'm getting a little bit closer to knowing who I actually am. But the solo around the world was just the start of figuring out who I actually am.

• 1:04:01John R. Miles?

  I love that. And since we're hearing kids in the background, one final question. If one of the girls who's trying to bang on your window, let's just say she's a 14 year old girl, I don't know how old she is, but let's say a 14 year old girl came up to you today and said, Cole, I want your life. What's the first thing you'd tell her that probably isn't the most obvious?

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  I would tell her that it's not easy. But it will be the best decision that you ever make in your life. And if you put your head down hard, and you work as hard, you show up early, and you leave late, you can do anything that your heart desires. And whether or not that's with pro sailing, shore crew, if you want to be a lawyer, or a doctor, or if you want to change your mind completely and be an astronaut, anything is possible. And it's just when people tell you, oh, you can't do that, or there's no way that's possible. You just have to look at them and say, yeah, okay. Just watch me.

• 1:05:05John R. Miles?

  I love it. Well, Cole, it was such an honor to have you on the show today. People want to learn more about you, your journey, everything else. I know you're very active on social media. Where are the best places they can go?

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  So they can follow me on Instagram. I'm mainly on Instagram and Facebook, Cole Brauer Ocean Racing. And those are my main platforms. And then if you're interested in pre-ordering, the book launches September 15 officially. But you can preorder it if you just type into Google Cole Brauer and first light Penguin, the publisher is Penguin Random House. And I just finished the audiobook last week. And I'm super excited because I'm dyslexic. And that was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my whole life.

• 1:05:50John R. Miles?

  Guess what? I just finished the audiobook last week, too.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  You did?

• 1:05:55John R. Miles?

  I did. This is my second one. And man, by the time, I was so glad I had the lessons learned from the first one. This right here is the most important thing, throat coat. Because, man, after a while, it hurts so bad.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I had the same thing. I was dying. I was dying. I couldn't drink coffee because it made my mouth like make this horrible sounds. And, oh, it is so hard. I loved it because I love challenges. But, oh, my God, hats off to the professionals. Honestly, they're killing it. Because, and I love a good audiobook, but wow, they do a killer job. I hope my book is anywhere even close to how they're doing theirs.

• 1:06:37John R. Miles?

  I'm sure it will be. Cole, such a joy to have you. Thank you so much for joining us and giving us this honor.

• 1:06:43Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having me. It's so fun. Thanks, John.

• 1:06:47John R. Miles?

  I hope Cole's story reminded you that adaptation isn't always about becoming something different. Sometimes it's about discovering what you're capable of when everything familiar gets stripped away. Cole had to learn to trust herself in some of the most difficult and isolated circumstances imaginable. And I think that's one of the questions at the heart of the adaptive human. How do we continue becoming without losing ourselves in the process? We've explored how our environments shape us, how agency gives us the power to act, and how adaptability helps us navigate uncertainty. But there's another part of adaptation we haven't explored yet. Our relationship with ourselves. Because sometimes

• 1:07:30John R. Miles?

  the person standing in the way of our growth, isn't the person we need to become. It's the version of ourselves we've been trying so hard to hide. And that's where we're going next. On Thursday, I'm joined by Dr. Marissa Franco, author of the new book, Worth, The New Science of Self Esteem and Secure Attachment. Marissa and I had a fascinating conversation about why some of the things we think should make us feel better, things like compliments, achievement, positive affirmations, can actually make us feel worse when they don't match the way we see ourselves. We talk about the memories that shape our self esteem, why we sometimes perform versions of ourselves that don't feel authentic, and why healing

• 1:08:14John R. Miles?

  may have less to do with becoming a better version of yourself than learning to listen to the parts of yourself you've learned to ignore. I think you're going to love this conversation.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  People with low self esteem prefer to interact with someone who sees them more negatively. Because if you see them too positively, they're like, you're going to figure out who I really am. There's all this anxiety. I don't trust you. I don't believe you. If we struggle with our worth, we can have the greatest love of our lives. We can have the successful career. But all of it slides off of us because it doesn't resonate with our sense of self. And thus, we can't actually internalize it.

• 1:08:48John R. Miles?

  Until then, remember, adaptation isn't just about changing how you face the world. Sometimes it's about changing how you relate to yourself. I'm John Miles. And as always, stay curious, stay intentional, and stay passion struck.