The Group

When a 17-year-old girl is found murdered in Great Smoky Mountains National Park authorities quickly zero in on the group of young men who last saw her. Native Hope https://blog.nativehope.org/ Office For Victims of Crime: Missing or Murdered Indigenous Persons (MMIP) https://ovc.ojp.gov/topics/missing-murdered-indigenous-persons/state-resources U. S. Department of Justice: Missing or Murdered Indigenous Persons Homepage https://www.justice.gov/tribal/mmip Sovereign Bodies Institute https://www.sovereign-bodies.org/ National Indigenous Women’s Resource Center https://www.niwrc.org/

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  Hi, park enthusiasts. It's Delia. If you listen to Park Predators, you already know that sometimes the most beautiful places can hide the darkest secrets. But what happens when the danger isn't miles from civilization? It's in your community, and sometimes even in your own backyard. On Crime Junkie, hosts Ashley and Britt dive into real cases every week, from missing persons to unsolved murders, breaking down what we know, what we don't, and the details that still don't sit right. If you care about the stories behind the headlines and the victims at the center of them, you'll want to check out Crime Junkie. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, park enthusiasts. I'm your host, Delia D'Ambra.

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  And the case I have for you today takes place in the Deep Creek area of Great Smoky Mountains National Park in North Carolina. Coverage by the Asheville Citizen Times explained that in the summer, the Deep Creek area mostly attracts visitors who want to camp, hike, and tube. In the wintertime, the weather is cooler, but people still come to check out the area's hiking trails. Deep Creek is actually a region we've been to before in a previous episode of Park Predators titled "The Hill." That case was a mysterious missing persons investigation from 1981 that explored the disappearance of Polly Melton. But today's episode happened several decades later, in the winter of 2006. Something that struck me right off the bat is that this crime, as shocking as it is,

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  didn't get nearly as much news coverage as I would have expected it to. When I first started my research, I could only find a handful of newspaper articles about it. I guess it's possible maybe there have been more stories published by newspapers that are either no longer in circulation or don't have their archives online. But still, in total, I only found less than a dozen reports, in print or online. So I went to where I knew there would be way more information: the law enforcement records, court records, appeals documents. And it was there in those files that I got a lot more of the story. What I hope you and anyone engaging with this episode take away today is this: this victim's life mattered. Her story matters.

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  This is Park Predators.

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  Around 4 o'clock in the afternoon on Sunday, January 15, 2006, a group of people from a Baptist church in Florida were hiking in the Deep Creek area of Great Smoky Mountains National Park when they saw something that likely made their blood run cold. About 20 yards into the woods, they saw what appeared to be a young woman's body laying face up on the ground. At the time, this church group was on a roadway called Tom's Branch Road, which is only about a half a mile inside the boundary of the park. But the specific spot where they saw the body was in a section of woods near where people would often pull over their vehicles. It wasn't a paved pull-off, more of an unimproved pull-off, which I imagine probably just means it had become worn from use over time and thus looked kind of different than the surrounding

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  area. When the group approached the victim, they could tell she was dead because there was a pool of blood beneath her head, and it was obvious that she'd suffered serious wounds to her face and head. When park rangers, Swain County Sheriff's Office deputies, and eventually FBI agents arrived on scene, they immediately treated the case as a homicide. They saw that the victim was still clothed and appeared to be a young woman in either her late teens or early twenties. After FBI evidence techs processed the crime scene, officials transported the victim to the NC office of the chief medical examiner for an autopsy. That exam revealed she'd been shot twice in the head. At this point, it looks like the FBI was the main investigating agency over the case,

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  but they were also working very closely with the Park Service, the Swain County Sheriff's Office, and the Cherokee Indian Police Department. And it was that last agency who, it seems, the feds thought might be quite helpful in assisting them with identifying the victim. Agents showed a photo of the deceased woman to an officer from that department, who indicated they recognized her as 18-year-old Tamara Tammy C., a member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians who is living in the Yellow Hill community area of the Sovereign Nation in North Carolina. Working off that tentative ID, investigators obtained copies of Tammy's dental records, and once the medical examiner reviewed those documents, there was no further doubt: she was definitely their victim.

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  The following day, January 20, the Asheville Citizen Times published Tammy's obituary, which stated she left behind her parents, two sisters, and an infant daughter. She also had numerous grandparents and relatives who, I imagine, were likely devastated by her sudden and violent death. Those loved ones held her memorial service the following Monday at a funeral home in Bryson City, North Carolina, and she was later buried at a nearby cemetery. In general, having a murder take place in the park was kind of shocking news because violent crime just wasn't a common occurrence there. Interestingly, though, I found a few news articles from just a few months after this crime, which reported that a man who'd been camping the park some two hours west of Deep

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  Creek had fatally stabbed another man during a horseplay incident that turned into an argument. So I don't know. It's possible that incidents of violence in the park were either grossly underemphasized at that time, or there just wasn't a lot of coordination when it came to tracking them. Either way, according to a criminal complaint that an FBI agent involved in Tammy's case would later file in court, in the eight days or so between when she was found and when she was laid to rest, investigators working on her case learned a lot of really important information about what had happened to her. Most notably, where she'd last been seen alive and who she'd last been seen with. According to that FBI affidavit that I just mentioned, as well as other court filings,

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  through interviews law enforcement conducted with people from the area, officials learned that on Friday night, January 13, so this would have been less than two days before Tammy's body was found, she'd been hanging out at this guy named Glenn's house. Glenn went by the nickname Big Dave, so from here on out, that's what I'll be referring to him as. Big Dave, who was also 18, told authorities that around 9:30 PM, this guy named Terrence Roach came to his house to pick up Tammy. Turns out, Terrence had actually been at his place earlier that day with Tammy and another 18-year-old named Joshua Squirrel. At that time, Big Dave and some other people who were in his house saw Tammy drinking

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  with Terrence and Joshua, and then saw the three of them go into a back room together. People who were in the house suspected the trio then engaged in sex based on noises they heard coming from the room. But then, a short time later, both Joshua and Terrence abruptly left Big Dave's house without Tammy. And based on what witnesses later described to authorities, when she emerged from that back room, she was not in a good mood. They said she seemed agitated and expressed that she wanted to call one of her uncles to, quote, "take care of Terrence and Joshua." It's unclear from the source material if the alleged sexual encounter between her, Terrence, and Joshua was consensual or possibly an act of sexual assault. None of the investigative documents explain whether she made that statement about wanting

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  to take care of Terrence and Joshua in reference to whatever had gone on between them in that back room, or if she was upset about something else. But regardless, Big Dave wanted no part of it, which is why as soon as Tammy started talking about wanting to get in touch with one of her uncles, he got on the phone and started calling people to find out where Joshua and Terrence had gone. He basically wanted them to just come back and take her home. Big Dave said that after some more time passed, Terrence eventually did show back up to get Tammy, but he wasn't with Joshua anymore. He was riding in a green Chevy Camaro with another one of his friends, a 19-year-old named Michael Sli. When those two arrived, Tammy was in pretty bad shape.

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  Big Dave explained that because she'd been drinking for so long at his house, she wasn't able to walk out, hop in the car, and roll with them. She was so inebriated that she'd passed out. So in order for her to physically leave his place, Terrence and Michael would have had to carry her out and place her in the backseat of the Camaro. Around the same time investigators learned this information, a member of the community came forward to officers with the Cherokee Police Department and explained that they had something they felt law enforcement should know about. They offered up a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson revolver they claimed Joshua Squirrel had entrusted to them just days earlier.

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  One day last year, detectives knocked on the door of a multimillion-dollar mansion in Los Angeles County. Inside, they found a strange scene: a dining area converted into classrooms with children and toddlers seated at rows of desks. The couple that lived there had 21 kids.

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  It's a house that looks like a castle, but it's under investigation for being a possible factory, a baby factory.

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  Where had these children come from? Almost all of them were born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.

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  Me and my coworker, we named her the surrogate pimp.

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  That's the one time that we called the cops because she was screaming. And then he pulled out a gun.

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  I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?

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  I'm Ava Kaufman. The Journey is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker. Find it now in the In the Dark feed, wherever you get your podcasts.

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  According to the available court documents, the person who turned over the revolver to police said that Joshua had come to them very recently and asked if they would hold on to the gun for him. At the time, this person was suspicious about why Joshua was giving them a random firearm. So naturally, they did what I hope everyone in that situation would do. They went straight to the police. And this seems to be why, on the afternoon of Friday, January 20, the FBI decided to interview Joshua one-on-one. Their plan for that day was to sit down with all three of their persons of interest, which of course included Terrence and Michael. But as fate would have it, Joshua was the first to be questioned. And his interrogation took place at a local community college he was attending at the time.

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  Initially, he claimed that the last time he'd seen Tammy, she'd gotten into a silver car. But that story quickly crumbled. In his second version of events, Joshua said that he remembered Terrence and Michael swinging by his house around 11 o'clock on Friday night, the 13th. At that time, they were driving a green Camaro, and Joshua said at some point while they were together, Terrence confessed to him that he'd shot Tammy and left her body in the Deep Creek area of the National Park. Joshua told his interviewers that he was totally taken aback by Terrence's admission, so much so that he'd asked Michael if what Terrence was saying was true. But Michael confirmed that it was. After that, Joshua said Terrence then handed him

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  the Smith & Wesson revolver and asked him to keep it safe for him. However, Joshua didn't do that. Instead, he threw it into the woods. But then, the following morning, returned to retrieve it and then gave it to the person who, unbeknownst to him, would eventually give it to the police. What's interesting to me is that according to the FBI's affidavits, Joshua mentioned in his interview that he'd actually brandished that gun at Tammy twice on Friday, January 13, when they'd all been hanging out together. Now, why did he do that? The records don't say. However, he did admit that in one of those instances, he'd threaten to, quote, "put Tammy in a grave." During his interrogation,

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  the FBI showed him the revolver they'd taken into evidence. And Joshua confirmed that was the firearm Terrence had entrusted him with the night of Tammy's murder. Next in the hot seat was Michael Sli. Officials interrogated him inside an NPS Ranger station for more than an hour. And his version of events went like this. He and Terrence had picked up Tammy from Big Dave's place. And then Terrence told him to drive in the direction of Bryson City. On the way, Terrence explained to Michael that he believed Tammy had stolen drugs from him and that she owed him a lot of money. Eventually, Terrence instructed Michael to take a gravel road that went through the Deep Creek area because he said they would be going to wait for someone to bring him drugs.

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  After a little more driving, they stopped at a pull-off. And Michael said that Terrence carried Tammy, who'd been passed out in the backseat of the car the whole time, a little ways into the woods. From where he was standing, Michael said he could see Terrence put her down in a small creek. But it appeared that the cold water she landed in had jolted her awake. Michael said he saw Tammy stand up, but then looked away and only heard her scream. Then, when he turned back around, he saw her fall to the ground and attempt to get back up again. While that was happening, he observed Terrence fiddling with something in the waistband of his pants. And then Terrence pulled out a gun and shot Tammy. Immediately after that, Michael said he high-tailed it to the car.

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  But while running to the vehicle, he glanced back and saw Terrence walk over to Tammy and point the gun at her as she laid on the ground. Then, Michael said, as he was getting into the car, he heard his friend fire a second shot. Michael explained that just a few moments after that, Terrence got into the car and told him to drive toward Joshua's house in Cherokee. When they arrived, Terrence admitted to Joshua what he'd done and asked him to take the gun for safekeeping. Later that night, Terrence gave Michael $100 to $150 in cash and told him that if anyone asked, he needed to tell people that Tammy had been picked up from Big Dave's by someone in a silver car. According to court records, Michael said Terrence also later paid him with cocaine

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  to keep quiet and stick to the silver car story. The last member of the trio to be questioned was 20-year-old Terrence. Around 10:30 at night on January 20, law enforcement went to his home and detained him. They only got a few minutes into speaking with him, though, before they decided it would be best to transport him to an NPS Ranger station for a more formal interview. He agreed to go with officials. And about an hour later, his interrogation got underway. At that time, he wasn't officially in custody. But still, law enforcement made sure they read him his Miranda rights before starting to ask him questions. From the jump, Terrence denied everything. He said he wasn't involved in Tammy's kidnapping and had nothing to do with her murder.

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  He claimed that after picking her up from Big Dave's, he and Michael drove to a dirt road, met someone in a silver car, and then Tammy got in with that person. But after about 15 minutes of peddling that version of events, Terrence decided to come clean. According to one FBI affidavit filed in this case, he completely recanted his prior story and just said, quote, "I did it," end quote. Following that admission, he went on to provide additional details of why and how he killed Tammy. Terrence said that he'd suspected for about a year that Tammy had been stealing drugs from him. In fact, the day before her murder, he was so sure she'd taken some cocaine from him that he confronted her about it. But she denied the allegation.

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  According to his estimate, she reportedly owed him somewhere in the ballpark of $5,500. And even though she'd said she wasn't to blame, Terrence told investigators he'd done some back-channeling of his own with, quote-unquote, "sources." And based on what he learned from those folks, he was certain Tammy was the thief. Regarding the gun he'd used, he told authorities that he normally didn't arm himself. But on that particular night, he'd made sure to carry one because he'd arranged to buy some drugs from some people and seemingly wanted it for protection. When asked about the events leading up to the crime, Terrence confirmed he'd gone to Big Dave's on Friday evening, but claimed he'd had consensual sex with Tammy before leaving

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  and then eventually returned with Michael to pick her up. He claimed that it wasn't until he and Michael got to the National Park with her that he decided he was going to kill Tammy. Terrence claimed that initially, the whole trip to the Deep Creek area was to meet up with someone so he could purchase drugs. However, when they arrived and he carried Tammy into the woods, things took a turn. He said she sort of came to and uttered something to the effect that she would have some drugs when they arrived. But Terrence told her, no, she wasn't going to get any drugs that night. According to him, right after he said that, Tammy tried to grab him, and so he pushed her away. During their tussle is when he said he decided he was going to shoot her. He explained that after shoving her to the ground,

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  she'd quickly started to stand back up. And that's when he fired at her. He told authorities that he took the second shot because he, quote, "could not leave anyone in that much pain, so he just made sure," end quote. Which I'm not certain is the truth. I mean, of course, Terrence would claim that shooting his victim twice was some kind of act of mercy instead of a cold gesture to ensure she couldn't survive and testify against him. Anyway, after the murder, he said that he told Michael to drive to Joshua's house. And while en route, he tossed the two spent shell casings from the revolver out the window. Just like authorities had done with Joshua and Michael, they showed Terrence the gun they had in evidence. And he confirmed it was the murder weapon. Three days later,

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  the FBI formally charged the 20-year-old with Tammy's murder. According to another FBI affidavit that was filed in this case, four days after Terrence was arrested, authorities pulled his buddy Michael back in for a follow-up interview. During that conversation, he provided additional information that, to be honest, didn't align at all with Terrence's confession. For example, Michael said that he'd actually been the one to discard the spent shell casings. He claimed that after the murder, while driving to Joshua's house with Terrence, he'd thrown them into a river near a trailer park, which was a totally different sequence of events than what Terrence claimed had happened. It's unclear why there was this discrepancy in their stories. But regardless,

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  something Michael did confirm in his second interview, which I think speaks to the element of premeditation in Terrence's case, was that Michael said Terrence had seemingly decided much earlier in the night to want to kill Tammy. According to Michael, while they were on the way to pick her up from Big Dave's place, Terrence brought up the fact that he believed she'd stolen drugs from him. Then, after he got her into the car and they were driving toward Bryson City, Michael said Terrence stated that he was planning to kill her because of it. Michael claimed that while they were riding in the car, Terrence pulled out the revolver and began loading it with bullets from his pocket, which to me, if true, is a clear indication he was already plotting to carry out the

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  crime at that point. Remember, Terrence's version of events was that he hadn't decided to kill Tammy until they were already in the woods and tussling with one another. Yet, Michael was claiming something very different. He alleged that murder had seemed to be on Terrence's mind the whole time, which is why, when the investigating FBI agent filed his criminal complaint for Terrence, he made sure to spell out that the 20-year-old was charged with first-degree murder. After that, similar affidavits and arrest warrants were issued for Michael and Joshua, but they were only charged with accessory after the fact to first-degree murder. At their first appearances, all of the defendants were ordered to remain in jail without bond pending a review by a grand jury.

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  On February 8th, less than a month after the crime, and just over a week after a preliminary hearing, a federal grand jury formally indicted the men. Terrence was charged with first-degree murder, kidnapping, and using a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence. As expected, because of their secondary roles in the crime, Joshua and Michael were only indicted for accessory after the fact to first-degree murder. In the indictment paperwork, the grand jury listed out several special findings that they relegated to Terrence's charges. For example, they found that not only had he intentionally killed Tammy and shown no regard for her life, he'd done it while she was in a particularly vulnerable state of inebriation, which implied she basically

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  stood no chance because she'd been unable to fight back. That element made this part of the story a lot darker for me. I mean, here was this young woman in a compromised state, being literally carried from Big Dave's home into a car, and then led by her killer to a remote place in the woods. She likely had no idea what was going on, where she was, or why these things were happening to her. Like, I don't know about you, but I can remember back when I was 18 years old and hanging out with people at friends' houses, thinking I could trust the folks I was with to look out for me. But the reality is, that isn't always the case. And in Tammy's situation, she was a victim of someone who clearly had

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  a plan of what he was going to do, and he acted on that plan when she was in a very vulnerable state. At the defendants' arraignments in mid-February 2006, they each pleaded not guilty, and their trial was scheduled for April of that year. In the interim, Terrence and his defense attorney filed a motion to suppress the statements he'd made to investigators during his January 20th interview. There was some back and forth between both sides on that issue, which resulted in the lead FBI agent on the case having to resubmit his probable cause affidavit for Terrence, this time with just a little bit more detail. But in the end, it seems that the motion to suppress stuff lost its luster for the defense, because just a few months later, in July 2006, Terrence, along

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  with his two friends, decided to do complete 180s once again.

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  One day last year, detectives knocked on the door of a multimillion-dollar mansion in Los Angeles County. Inside, they found a strange scene: a dining area converted into classrooms with children and toddlers seated at rows of desks. The couple that lived there had 21 kids.

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  It's a house that looks like a castle, but it's under investigation for being a possible factory, a baby factory.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  Where had these children come from? Almost all of them were born through surrogates. But those surrogates had been deceived.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  Me and my coworker, we named her the surrogate pimp.

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  That's the one time that we called the cops, because she was screaming. And then he pulled out a gun.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into?

• 23:22Speaker 04

  I'm Ava Kaufman. The Journey is a new series from In the Dark and The New Yorker. Find it now in the In the Dark feed, wherever you get your podcasts.

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  According to court records, on July 12th, 2006, six months after Tammy's murder, Terrence agreed to plead guilty to two of the counts against him. He admitted to killing Tammy and using a firearm in a crime of violence. In exchange, the prosecutors agreed not to seek the death penalty and dismiss the count related to kidnapping. This meant that the maximum sentence Terrence could face was life in prison plus a lot of restitution to Tammy's family, most notably, her infant daughter. By the end of that month, both Michael and Joshua had taken pledeals too. For their cooperation, they each faced up to 15 years in prison, plus fines and restitution. At their sentencing hearings the following year, the judge sentenced Joshua to just

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  under six years in prison, plus three years probation. Michael got slightly less than five years, plus probation, and Terrence received two consecutive life sentences. When it came to restitution, they were all ordered to pay a total of $5,645 to Tammy's grandmother, an entity called the Cherokee Family Support Services, and the funeral home that had handled Tammy's burial. But on top of that, the young men were also ordered to pay nearly $1.5 million to Tammy's estate, which was money that would go toward providing for her infant daughter. Because Terrence, Joshua, and Michael were all members of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, they were entitled to payouts from the tribe

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  for gaming proceeds. But instead of receiving their biannual per-capita payments, their money would be garnished by the government and go directly toward paying down that massive restitution amount. The government had calculated that large figure by totaling the estimated lost income Tammy wouldn't receive, plus any future lost earnings. Almost two years after that, Joshua and Michael filed a joint appeal to have their judgment amended. In court filings, they argued that a district court making such a decision was unlawful and violated some of their constitutional rights. Joshua and Michael argued that because they'd only pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact to murder, they shouldn't be burdened

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  with paying the same amount of the restitution as Terrence, who was the actual murderer. In early December 2009, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit decided that Michael and Joshua's argument was right, and they should no longer be on the hook for the nearly $1.5 million in restitution. The court vacated the judgments against them regarding that issue and removed that amount from what they owed Tammy's estate. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons website, Michael was released from federal custody in April 2010, just over four years after Tammy's murder. Per court records, Joshua left federal custody the following year and began serving his period of supervised

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  release. However, he violated the conditions of that release, and in May 2014, was ordered to serve nine weekends in the Buncombe County Detention Center in North Carolina. A few months after that, in late September 2014, he was formally released from the Federal Bureau of Prisons altogether. According to death records and an obituary I found, Joshua passed away in July 2022 at the age of 35. To this day, Terrence Roach remains incarcerated at a federal prison, but he hasn't stopped fighting to get his sentence vacated. In 2023, without an attorney representing him, he petitioned the U.S. District Court in the Western District of North Carolina to consider vacating his sentence, but the

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  court denied his request. In December 2025, he asked the same court to order the government to stop garnishing his biannual tribal gaming payments. As for his reasoning, he offered up this argument: By December 2025, Tammy's daughter was no longer a minor, and Tammy's estate had been formally closed earlier that year. But naturally, the government opposed this request and argued that regardless of the fact that Tammy's daughter was now an adult, that didn't mean anything. There was no "aging out" of being able to receive payments from someone's estate even though it was closed. Per court records, she'd been formally substituted as the payee for the restitution in August 2025, and that was

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  binding. Court records show that up until that point, Terrence had only paid about $200,000 towards the more than $1 million restitution balance, so a fraction. And in the end, the court sided with the government. A judge denied Terrence's request, and per court records, he is still required to contribute to the restitution balance. I think one of the reasons it took so much effort to be able to cover Tammy's case in depth is because she was someone who was from a marginalized group of people, a group of people whose stories are often overlooked when it comes to reporting about violent crimes. In February 2023, 17 years after Tammy's murder, the podcast We Are Resilient,

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  an MMIP true crime podcast, released an episode about her case, and it was the only other podcast I could find that detailed her story. For those of you who don't know, the acronym MMIP stands for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Persons. There's an entire unit within the U.S. Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs Missing and Murdered Unit that's specifically focused on analyzing and solving homicide and missing persons cases involving American Indians and Alaska natives. According to their website, Native American and Alaska Native communities have a disproportionately high rate of being victims of violent crimes like murder, assault, and abduction. Women in particular within those

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  communities experience the most violence. To help raise awareness and publicize the ongoing efforts that organizations working to combat this crisis are doing, I've listed some resources in the blog post and in the show notes for this episode. I hope you'll engage with those resources and share them with the people you know.

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  Park Predators is an AudioChuck production. You can view a list of all the source material for this episode on our website, parkpredators.com, and you can also follow Park Predators on Instagram, @parkpredators. I think Chuck would approve.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  In the dark, even the most familiar trail can feel like it leads somewhere else. Every rustle becomes a warning, every shadow, a doorway. In Full Body Chills, those doorways open into worlds pulled straight from your nightmares. This spooky season classic returns with chillingly tales, immersive sound, and no promise that you'll find your way back. So step off the familiar path if you dare. Listen to new episodes of Full Body Chills every week, wherever you get your podcasts.