Dr. Martha Deiros Collado - Online Safety Expert (Pre Teens)

In the first of a series of special interviews with leading experts (and lets face it, people far more qualified than us!) to discuss important and relevant topics that impact and inform modern parenting - we had the pleasure to sit down with the brillaint Dr. Martha Deiros Collado to discuss online safety, device and screen usage amongst pre-teens, and much much more. In the 2nd ep next week we discuss teenagers. We loved speaking with Dr Martha in collaboration with @Tescomobile. If you’re looking for advice on how to have that chat or tools to help keep your family safer online, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub. https://www.tescomobile.com/online-safety @Tescomobile - Keeping up keeps them safe. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Parenting Hell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a Spotify Podcast, new video episodes available everywhere every Tuesday and Friday. Please subscribe and leave a rating and review you filthy street dogs... xxx If you want to get in touch with the show with any correspondence, kids intro audio clips, small business shout outs, and more.... here's how: EMAIL: [email protected] Follow us on instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@parentinghell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you entirely by Tesco Mobile.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Today, Josh, we're going to be talking a lot about kids' online lives.

• 0:08Speaker 00

  Important topic.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Very important topic, and nobody knows more about it and how confusing it can be than Tesco Mobile do.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Too right, Rob. So this episode is for you if you don't know what larping is, if you don't know what chopped is, if you don't know what other examples that I can't come up with because I don't have those in my head because I don't know what they are.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Because this is the start of the episode. We need the expert to help us.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  Rob, if any of that applies to you, visit the Tesco Mobile online safety hub for tips on how you can have a chat about their online lives.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  And in the meantime, stay tuned to find out more about what you can do today.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  So today, Josh,

• 0:47Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  we are speaking to an expert about online safety for kids. Still going to be a fun, funny Parent in Hell episode. However, we're going to get some actual facts, science and details and advice on how to guide kids through the online world. Because, look, we love messing about, but it is actually something that I want more info on.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  This is the most worthwhile episode we've ever done. And this is the start of, we're going to do more expert episodes. Because we want to look at these topics, but in a funny way.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  But with an expert.

• 1:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. What we're going to do, we're going to provide take home and we're going to provide chuckles. Something for the brain.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23Speaker 00

  Something for the old ribs.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  Perfect. I think we need to get the expert on quite soon.

• 1:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Welcome to the show, Dr. Marta.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  Hi, thanks for having me.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Actual doctor as well.

• 1:35Speaker 02

  Yes, clinical psychology doctor.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Not like Dr. Fox.

• 1:38Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  Official. With like, you've sort of slid into a bit more of the sort of technological stuff because with babies, it is a little bit primal, really. Crying tantrums, food.

• 1:47Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  But then they get to an age, even from like four or five, and if they're on, everything's connected to the internet now. And like, if you give a kid, you know, an iPad, when I was a kid, you got a Game Boy and maybe you're on a screen, but you are just playing Tetris.

• 2:00Speaker 02

  I loved it.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  And it's contained, you know, we all loved it. But now these, like, I don't really understand how my iPad works for me as an adult. But my kids have got them and so they're just like accessing the world. I think for most parents, it feels like an absolute Wild West. It's almost too big to even

• 2:17Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  get their heads around.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Plus, plus it's an easy out as well. Everyone else has got them, duh, duh, duh.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  So there's this kind of momentum you get caught up in from peers. I'd say is the one biggest concern of our generation of parents is online safety through to social media. But tablets, phones, computers, all those kind of things.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  The biggest challenge of our parenting generation, a hundred percent.

• 2:47Speaker 00

  Totally. Because when we were kids, it was just don't watch enough, too much TV.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. Have you discovered stuff through being a parent yourself or is, have you kind of come to it from a research perspective?

• 2:58Speaker 02

  I mean, I think both and. I think before I became a mum, I had some views about it, about screens, about the online world more than just screens. I think, you know, not all screens are created equal. Like you just mentioned Game Boys. You know, you can do good gaming without it being online and without the risks associated with the online world. You know, Switch, the Switch exists and it's a great game, you know, and my daughter plays it. But also I think I'm, I like games. Like I like videos. I like films. I'm a big film person.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  You've got things like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, games are really good for problem solving, for, you know, hand-eye coordination, for, you know, puzzling.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  And working in a team because my daughter plays on iPad with, on certain games, sometimes Roblox, sometimes Minecraft. But they are actually playing in a way that they would have with like, uh, Monopoly or, you know, so it's still, they sit around playing a game.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  It's still socialising.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Or dolls or, you know, little figures and stuff like that. So it's social. Rather than being locked away just on a game on their own, it's very different, different vibe, but.

• 4:03Speaker 00

  And also, but on that, when you were saying like films and, you know, great story.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, great storytelling. Absolutely.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  That's what, that's, you know, human, humans tell stories to explain everything. And so, you know, those things aren't bad vis a vis because they're on a screen.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  No, exactly. And I think we need to be a bit more discerning when we're talking about screens and not kind of bundle everything in one box. There are meaningful stories that are really helpful. I watch, like, my little one is starting preschool and we've been watching certain shows that talk about school. You know, with cartoons.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  To help her because she's been saying, I'm a little bit scared. Like she will say that, I'm a little bit scared of my teacher. And so we watch it and then we're able to talk about it. But I think it's about being really discerning that it's not like all screens are bad and we need to like, you know.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  There's all these stories about, let's just go back to zero screens and, and I'm like, oh, you know, it's an extreme, right? I don't believe in extremes. I believe that we need to learn how to live more healthily with tech. And I think nobody taught us, for the reason that you were saying, it's our biggest challenge as parents, our parents didn't have to navigate this. I didn't get a phone until I was out of my house. So nobody taught me how to use my phone or how to use the online digital world.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  As adults, we're not dealing with it very well.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Either. Like, I've got a problem with how much I'm on my phone.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, me too.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  All the apps are designed to sort of, you know, get me on it all day.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  And I have sort of convinced myself, oh, I need it for work, which is half true. You have to have a profile. I need to make sure stuff's going up for my selling tickets for the tour.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  You don't need to be checking it all the time.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No, not the way I am checking it. So if, if the person that's trying to solve the problem has the problem, it's incredibly difficult. So is it, is it almost worth you have to sort of solve it yourself before you can help the kids? What's the best process?

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Both and. I think you can do, how do I, the way I think about it as a mum, is how do I set good, healthy habits in my house around screens? Like my two are too small to go online. So neither of them are an online.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  They don't do anything online. Seven and two.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  So they're nothing, so no Roblox?

• 6:13Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  No Minecraft?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  Nothing?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  Nothing. They play Mario, they play.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Like, in, on the Switch?

• 6:19Speaker 02

  On the Switch with us and with their friends. Sometimes there's four of them. We've got extra, whatever they're called.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  Controllers.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Controllers. Thank you for the word. And they all kind of hang out together with snacks and they all play, and it's great. And we let them do that. That's not a problem to me. They're socialising, just like you're saying.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  So they're allowed screen time?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Yes. And they watch films.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Is there a limit or when they have it or not have it?

• 6:39Speaker 02

  I mean, I call them limits, but to me it's a routine. Like predictable routines really help kids. So my daughters know when they get screen time and when they don't. And so my kids genuinely don't ask for it very much. And I think it's because it's always been like, it's their, like, one form of entertainment.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  But there's other stuff that they get access to as well, that they play with, that they engage in. So they're not constantly saying, can we do this? Can we do this? It's just there like an extra kit.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Can I ask their routine? When do they get it?

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. So they get it on the weekend in the morning.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  Like, you know, breakfast, lazy mornings. And then we sometimes watch a family film on a Sunday.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then again, not during the school week. They don't really get screens during the school week.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  Can I just say that's what I do too? Just so you know.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  No screens during school week?

• 7:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  But by the way.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  But I will tell you, they're not allowed TV, they're not allowed TV in the week?

• 7:33Speaker 02

  They don't watch TV in the week.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, mine definitely watch it. So I put them on their own iPad. No, no, we actually, we do very differently.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  Routines work for different people, don't they?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  No, I'm joking.

• 7:41Speaker 02

  And even though I'm saying, no, not really, there's a caveat. If I'm running late in the evening, whatever's happened, you know, pick up, whatever. I'm making dinner. I want some time off, you know, which is fine. I will put the TV on for them. And they can do that while I cook dinner in peace. And then we can all sit together and actually enjoy our time together.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  And your decision on that for you, obviously, this is, this is not really about like what you do as such, but it's more as in your position as an expert on this. Is that based on research or information that you found when you're writing your books and studying? Or is it a bit more what you've sort of judged is good for your kids? What, how, you know, would you advise someone on it?

• 8:18Speaker 02

  I think for me personally, if you're asking me a personal question, it's both and. So we've got some guidance about little ones. So below the age of two, they really shouldn't be on screens.

• 8:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Mainly because in terms of their brain development, social development, emotional development, they learn that through interaction with the world, not through a screen.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  And it's also not great for their eyes. It's just very passive. Again, for me, there's always nuance and a caveat.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  You're cooking, you're doing something, you just need like a 10-minute break. Put something meaningful for your kid. You know, for me, it's always something on CBBS because I can trust it, you know, a little kiddie show.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  We used to put on the Queen's Speech.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  From Christmas, we just have it as a backup.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Why not? Grandma's talking. Yeah. Yeah, so I think for, we know that from under teens and then for me, there's the guidance in the UK at the moment is something like an hour maximum up to the age of around seven, I think it is.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  A day. And you know, the thing to be.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Is that include TVs?

• 9:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  I don't agree with that, but you're an expert and maybe I should.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  But that's nuanced, yeah. No, no, no.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  No, but it's just so big and far away.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  But it's also not.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 9:27Speaker 02

  I think the way to think about it as a parent is it, it, you know, guidance is never a fit at all. And also when your kid goes to school, which I actually struggle with this myself. My daughter has a lot of screen time at school. Her last week of school was her telling me, I've watched three films today. And I was like, why are you at school? But I think that's part of why the guidance is so tight and restrictive on parents, that they're aware that in schools they are doing.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  But I'm aware that there is new guidance coming in the autumn. I do not know what it will look like, but that guidance will be for slightly older kids.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  Um, with screens, you say kind of, you know, not, not all screens are equal kind of thing. Is there a difference between a screen where they sit and watch and they absorb the show or whatever? Or is there something inherently bad for their development or different about, and you know, maybe concentration, whatever, about a kind of iPad-y, touchy screen where you can move around it, all that kind of stuff?

• 10:26Speaker 02

  So, okay, this is my take on it, but it's obviously based on science. I don't like the word harm.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Unless we're talking about real harm, like, you know, open online sites where there's strangers that can contact your child. To me, that's a risky, harmful, potential harmful thing. Um, passive screen time gets really bad rep. Like if you're just watching a film and that's like awful, it's not. There's a reason why we all enjoy films. And like you were saying, meaningful stories, you can open up conversation with children. We know that co-viewing, so sitting with your child and watching something can be really helpful. It can develop their language. It can help them problem solve. It can open up conversations. If you're watching something meaningful together and then you talk about it, it might actually build your bond with your kid and build skills, which is great.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  But also a good story that your kid is watching might still be good for them. Also, I think, which is, we have science on, watching something passive can be really relaxing. There's no harm in watching good TV.

• 11:25Speaker 00

  It's not like, I'm a child, I need to be, I need to be.

• 11:30Speaker 02

  Doing all the time. No, no, no, no.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Doing, doing, doing, I need to be, you know.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  I need to be improving my brain twenty-four seven because I'm six.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Exactly. I'm so anti that. Let your kid rest. It's, they're fine. Of course, there's nuance. If you let your kid rest for five hours in front of a TV, I would say that's not great, is it?

• 11:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Cause it's a distraction from what else they could be doing. But sometimes it's really good. Like they've gone out, done lots of things outdoors, been really physical. Maybe they just need a slump for half an hour. Like give the kids a break. On the iPad, what you're saying.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  When my kids get back from school, they are effed.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  The last thing they need is me to go, right, guys, let's do some art. Do you know what I mean? Or something that they need to sit down, they're knackered, they're, they're, them at four PM is like me at nine thirty PM.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Yes, you're right. So I call that decompression.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  And some kids decompress really well with a good show, something on a screen, like you're doing. Some kids do not. So I think, I mean, I talk about this in my book, but you need to be aware, and you will be as a parent, but you need to be aware of what helps with your kid. My daughter does not decompress like that at all.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  So some kids need movement, you know, like a kick around or a bit. Do you know what I mean? Like a cycle.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  My daughters, there's certain TV shows or YouTube shows, there's a couple that, what's weird now is YouTube shows that are sort of built on all algorithms and analytics, which I find a bit scary. And about, because you don't even know why you like it, but there's some sort of equation.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Is, that's sort of moved over to Netflix a bit now, because there's a show called like Salish or something, and it's all like, ah, ah, ah, I'm mad.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  My daughters can sort of watch.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  It's too similar to their dad.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  It's too much. No, but if they watch that in the morning, that's sort of okay. But if they watch it in the afternoon before bed, it sends them mad.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  It's bad timing. So it's like certain, so we said, you can't, you know.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  That's not the show for after school.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Not the way you behave when you did, and the same way, but it's like that with everything, not just screens.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  So certain kids can, my other daughter, you could put it on, she'd just go asleep easy.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. So you need to be mindful about who your kid is and the content, like think about content more than time, but also like decompression. I know you said, oh, if you go, do you want to do, I can't remember what you said, but you know, you want to do stickers or whatever, they might not do it. But I actually set up little, little play that has no rules.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  No rules. So there's no win or lose, no pressure, because that's what they get at school. A lot of pressure, you know, their brain is like, I call it fizzy because their brain is like so tight from the focus and all the listening and all the doing. And so they just need a moment where their brain just goes, ah, you know, like literally a lot big sigh. And if it works for you with TV, keep going.

• 14:08Speaker 00

  My son kind of just plays, just does Lego. Like, to be honest, it's a day on a day, it's a day on day thing.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  My daughter loves colouring and drawing, so I'll put out some really pretty things, but I lay it out. I say nothing. I don't even go, do some colouring, go. I say nothing. I leave it out and a bit like you. But I usually give my kids like fruit, crisp, I'm a crisp girl.

• 14:30Speaker 00

  We just haven't tidied up the Lego. So that's my equivalent of you putting it out.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Off you go.

• 14:35Speaker 00

  Our lack of tidiness is actually.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  Little fidgets. She loves little squidgy things. I mean, they all love squidgy things.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Squidgies, oh my god, need those.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  But I will leave them out and like I sometimes serve it like on a platter, put Lego on a platter like a snack.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:48Speaker 02

  And you, they can't help themselves. And so they go there and they do that. And often I'm then like starting dinner and as long as they're quiet and calm, that's their decompression moment.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  And we, for a brief period, had YouTube for my daughter. And it wasn't for us, the content, it was, you know that phrase, like the medium is the message, like, like it felt like the, the way it was structured. Which I suppose to an adult is like TikTok, you know, the way you can move from one thing.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  So you're talking about YouTube shorts, where she just.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  You're talking about the endless videos thing.

• 15:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, YouTube. And then you've got the options on the side and she can just click and, and suddenly it's, I found that really sent her crazy.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  I think it does that to lots of kids. It's, it's never ending. That's the problem.

• 15:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  You can switch, oh, it's really tricky, but you can switch that off on YouTube with the parenting controls, with the children's YouTube. There are ways around it. And I think all parents need to know about this. You can also do it on Netflix or Disney or whatever you watch, you know, when it comes up with the next video and it gives you that countdown. You can switch that off in your settings. So it doesn't, it says there's another one, but you have to actively go to it to click on it.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  It's a little bit of a challenge because a lot of these things are decided, because they want you to watch it.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Because the more you watch it, it's better for them.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  Absolutely. But it's not good for your kids necessarily.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  We, they, they, they don't have YouTube buckets. They have, they have iPads, eight and ten, and they can go on Roblox with the, they can't talk to anyone, all those sort of print controls. And Minecraft and no YouTube. And then they've got their, the apps of like, you know, Netflix, Disney, whatever.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  And, um, we said no to YouTube just because I, this, the algorithm of just that, the relentless shorts is sort of the same as like on Instagram and you TikTok it. Where it's just, I think, so what, what's your view on that? And, and your daughter's seven, when will you look at allowing her to have access to these apps?

• 16:50Speaker 02

  Great question. Um, my daughter knows that she's not allowed on YouTube. And she actually goes to other friends' houses who do watch it, and she will say, I'm not allowed. And like, we might, we will tell the parents if, if I'm aware of it. Um, she has watched one of her friend's older sister's play Roblox and I'm okay with that.

• 17:09Speaker 00

  Why specifically have you got that rule?

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Because YouTube, to me, exactly for the, all the reasons you've both been talking about, there's a risk that she will watch something that she's not prepared to be watching.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  So it's more that than the, because what we found was not so much, she'd just end up on hamster videos or something, but it was the way.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  But you don't know where she's gonna go, do you?

• 17:31Speaker 00

  It was also the way she was watching was different that we didn't like. Do you know what I mean?

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like an intensity, right? Like they kind of get glazed on it.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Well, like my kids watch Simpsons, which is a little bit too old for them really in sort of, sort of the comedy of it and a little bit, but in a way I'd rather them be exposed to certain swear words and a bit of that kind of crassness as opposed to this sort of like mystery magical toy that YouTube, but those other algorithm type.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  I agree. And I say this all the time, you know, things that you watch on TV, like obviously I mentioned CBBS, but it could be like a film, a cartoon. You have producers, directors, artists, like storytellers, thinking about the story that they're gonna create. That's not necessarily true on YouTube.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  And the morality of it where, for me, my experience of some of the stuff YouTube is, people are chasing views.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  And what they'll look at is when the, the analytics.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  But there's a lot on YouTube, it's all about the clicks, right? And it's all about how do I keep you on for long? And I'm like, that's not looking after my kid or thinking about telling them a nice story. That's just about it.

• 18:29Speaker 01

  That's just keeping it for as long as possible. And again, so, yeah, so when will you?

• 18:35Speaker 02

  When will I? Um, I think I, if I can push it as far as I can, I will for sure. Like it's something I talk about in my book, but I think when she's more into like secondary school and then I will support her. I think she's, you know, I try and teach my kids about digital skills from now.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  And the way I do it is through me. So she doesn't watch it. It doesn't mean we don't talk about it.

• 18:57Speaker 00

  So tell me what you, what skills you would want to impart.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  So things like digital consent is something that I've been teaching.

• 19:03Speaker 00

  What do you mean by that?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Things like where her photos of her go, who has copies of her photos, what they are. She's got the right to say, I don't want to send that to nanny. She can say that and I won't send the photo. Just the process of you asking your children, is it okay to send this photo teaches them, oh, there is a process of asking if it's okay.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  And I work with teenagers, so I see so many teenagers who are like, somebody took my photo and put it online. I mean, we can talk about that another time.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  I think that's a separate episode, the teenager. Let's, let's try and focus on pre-teens because I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't access that yet.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  But I think it's really hard to teach kids a skill unless you give them a little bit of practice. And so I use myself as their practice.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  And I will say things like, oh, look, so and so sent me this photo, like in the family WhatsApp, for example. I'll show photos and go, do you think they asked for permission? Like I would ask her that, do you think they asked, you know, to group? And she's like, oh my god, they didn't. And I'm like, no, but do you think the photo is okay? Can you see why maybe they sent it and it's not like the end of the world kind of. But because I've started to ask her those questions, she started to be really mindful of it, including I use, I use photos of my daughters, but they're from behind the head. They're on social media, they're on my Substack. And I took a photo of her piggy bank because I talked about pocket money recently. And she saw her piggy bank and I said to her, I'm gonna use this for an article is that. And I did ask her because it's her.

• 20:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  It's her bookcase.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  And she said, does that mean that somebody can change my piggy bank though? Like, will they put a moustache on him or will they change what he looks like? I mean, the fact she even thought of that, I was like, okay, you got it. Like, you understand all these little conversations, all these little like drip feeding of information. And I said to her, yeah, they could change your piggy bank, but do you think it will hurt his feelings or is he okay?

• 20:55Speaker 01

  I need to earn money, so.

• 20:57Speaker 00

  If you want any more money in that piggy bank, you'll let me put it on there.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Um, can I, can I ask a question about?

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  So obviously what you're doing, I think is fairly in the, not, not strict's the wrong word, but you're quite, uh, it's a bit later for the kids. There's certainly kids around seven or eight that will have access to online.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Children I know that are ten that are on TikTok already, which is crazy. So obviously, that's all personal opinion, everyone's got their own idea of that. But do, do you worry about navigating if you hold it back and deprive them of it? I still deprive might be too strong words, but hold it back from them for too long, that then when they get it and the floodgates are open, they go mad for it. Cause Lou, for example, was not allowed any fizzy drinks growing up at all. She's on five cans of Diet Coke a day, completely obsessed.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  She loves it.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Loves it and just can still, so is that, i- i- is that sort of a, like, that, is that a fallacy that doesn't really happen?

• 21:46Speaker 02

  I think it's about how you introduce it, right?

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  So I think it's a great question. Um, the way I think about it is there's a, there's like a concept called SLO, right? That's the, what's it called acronym for it? And that's my view on how I introduce the online world to my daughters. Okay, so S is like supervision, like supervise them when they're online. So parenting controls are really high because they're little. My two year old's not really on anything yet, but you know, I, I keep that quite high. Then L is for life skills. So the thing that supports kids online is having the skills offline.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  So I'm really trying to support her with friendships and you know, she's seven, so the friendships kind of, it's exploding. There's fights about everything, competition, she doesn't love me, you know?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  There's a lot of that reject, like, strong feelings of rejection, even though like.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Potentially being out the loop, cause if they start messaging on email addresses and stuff.

• 22:42Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And I'm like, I need to build all these life skills, like social, emotional. So one of the things that happens online, obviously, is we feel a lot, like, you know, images make us feel more intensely than just words. Like if you read a book, so obviously little ones are more vulnerable to that. So if they watch something, they get a big feeling, how are they gonna cope with that big feeling when they switch off the screen?

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  So I'm trying to teach her all of that by supporting her, developing emotional skills, emotional literacy, being able to say I'm scared, I'm distressed. I've watched something, I don't know how I feel about it, you know, all those things. I'm practicing that now. O is about open dialogue and we have a, like I'm talking about, we, I use myself, my husband uses himself as well. We talk a lot about online, I mean, I work online, so I have a million examples.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  And I try and frame them in ways that she will understand. I might show her, I'll show her videos on Instagram sometimes. Um, nothing scary, things that I think are appropriate, but I'll show her why, like a filter.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  So I might show her a filter, so we talk about that and like, look, people's image change. She's a girl, so I'm very aware that, you know, her identity formation, I need her to have her identity before she goes online and sees all this stuff. And then that shapes her. And then W is about watching it together. So again, it's kind of what I've started to do, watch Instagram together, watch YouTube together. Before I introduce YouTube, I'll probably watch it with her. And I'll teach her, you don't go over here and this is why you don't click. We already do that. If we do a search, so we do things like search for holidays together.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, on YouTube, yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  So if we search and there's a pop up, you know, on all the, I say to her, look, can you see these little boxes? Do you, do you know why we don't click on them and we'll talk about it?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  So it feels, like, it's not like a sit down, let's open a computer. It just happens moment to moment, like as naturally as I can make it. But that's what I focus on with that acronym, like S L O W.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  It's not just open the floodgates, it's sort of.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  So we're doing, cause my eldest really wanted YouTube and all her friends are on YouTube, they watch YouTube. And they're, they, they message with, they're like on messaging on like the email. But their, their friends are sending on YouTube videos anyway on the message. So it's a bit like, you know, it's hard to be across it fully, but then well, I was like, look, you can watch YouTube, but we're not just gonna let you go through the whole of YouTube.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  If there's a YouTuber that your friends are chatting about or you think you might like.

• 25:06Speaker 00

  You've got a golf channel.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  I've got a golf channel, sit down and watch Daddy Sweet.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, why not?

• 25:11Speaker 01

  No, so there was one, so a friend loves Moira Elizabeth, who's a, she's really good actually, she's a very pure, she has squishies that she repairs. That's funny, she's really creative, funny editing, it's quite a funny show. And we said, well, we'll watch that, so we sat there and watched it with them.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, perfect.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  When they go YouTube now, we go, we'll watch, we'll watch Moira Elizabeth. But then these other ones are sort of sneaking in now that are.

• 25:30Speaker 02

  So what I would say is that kind of open dialogue, one of the ways that's really lovely for someone like you, and lots of kids at my daughter's age have it. We're quite screen light, that's just who we are, I think that's a personality thing.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  I would say to your child, I always say, think, think about the questions you'd ask if they went on a playdate or if they go like to a club. You know, after school club, what would you ask your child about their time there? Because the way I think about it is when they, your kid opens a screen, YouTube, whatever, it is like opening a door into a different world, a digital world. But you need to think about it like it's a door. It's not just a screen and they're on a sofa, their brain and their body has gone somewhere else. You need to really, I, that, my way of visualizing it is like it's a door.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:12Speaker 02

  Right, I've just stepped into some, a different world, I'm now talking to different people, having different experiences, feeling different things. And I would want to know what they've heard, seen, felt while they were watching Moira or while they were watching some other video. So open dialogue is also about thinking, if you went on a playdate, what would I wanna know? And now you've gone online on your iPad, what do I need to know?

• 26:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's interesting, cause it is treated as like, you would, you would, you wouldn't ask those questions that you do when you pick them up from school.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Cause it is another reality and another world.

• 26:45Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  On Minecraft, they, they can't talk to anyone, no one can talk to them on what they're on, that's the settings we've got on. On Minecraft, there are other people who come in and look at their world they created.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  But we didn't have the right setting so that they can view, not edit, so they could come in, someone come in and set fire to a village.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  Now, obviously, one, it's quite, like, it is quite funny, but it's not to her.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  No, it's not funny.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  Her whole world, she, it's, it's, if someone come over and kicked over a sand castle.

• 27:11Speaker 02

  Lego.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  You'd be, what's that kid doing?

• 27:14Speaker 02

  Devastated.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  So there's two things, one, as a comedian, and due to my upbringing, I use comedy as a flexion from feelings, right? So partly, I will still wanna be myself and be fun, but no, actually, let her be upset.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  That is horrible, some, and really actually connect with that feeling she's having, rather than trying to make a joke of it or make a joke, because you've got to sort of process that.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  You waited for the podcast, this episode of the podcast to make.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and back in my day, it's just all content, this is great. But it was, but I think sometimes, and I'm really guilty of this, it's only in more recent years that I've slowed down my thinking and engage of emotions personally, as well as, um, as a parent, is like.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  This is him slowed down.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is me calm, but in the past, I would have gone, either make light of it or go, it doesn't really matter. Or my, I think my dad's generation would have gone, what are you crying for? And then, but I would try and sympathize with it, try and be funny, but I think actually if you talk to them about it like it was a real thing that happened.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Even though it's online, it's, it is a reality that they're, that they're immersed in.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And like, we can't, we need to tech, we need to support ourselves and our kids to know that the stuff that happens online is real. Cause it has a real emotional impact and in some cases for some kids, it has a real life impact, right? The stuff that happens online. So yeah, absolutely, you poor girl, but what you've touched on something really important, which is that as parents, we don't know these platforms.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Like, there's so much we have to learn. The truth is that as a parent, you need to understand what the platform is.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  This is something I say to most people, for you, this might not be an issue, but some people are like, what? But I might play it, actually get the thing your kid is gonna go on and play it, visit it, do it together. You know, that, that's why for me, that acronym really works beautifully, because if she wants to go to Minecraft one day, we'll get it and we'll do it together.

• 29:07Speaker 00

  Now, Rob, as a parent, every now and again you realise that there's a conversation you should probably have with your kids. So what do you do, Rob?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  You put it off, obviously, not because you don't care, it's just tricky sometimes, which we'll get into in this special segment brought to you by Tesco Mobile.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  It's difficult with awkward conversations with your kids, isn't it, Rob?

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're in a big two fairy Easter bunny Father Christmas hole at the moment and I don't know what to do.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  Well, they all exist, so I just keep

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Case closed.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Talking about that, yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Well, it's, I don't want to be the person that sort of breaks the news.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  But then they know, but then they want us to confirm it, but do you ever confirm it?

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Oh, Rob. Oh, Robbie, Robbie, Robbie.

• 29:47Speaker 01

  And they know that we know, but no one's saying it. But I don't want to be the person that shouts across the table.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  Well, do you know what? It could be worse, because the birds and the bees chat.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  That's next.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  How are you feeling about that one? Are you gonna do it, or is Lou gonna do it?

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Um, I'm gonna do it through a voice note. Online. And you know how I'm gonna make sure that voice note is okay?

• 30:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub.

• 30:14Speaker 00

  What other difficult conversations have I had? Do you know pet death?

• 30:17Speaker 01

  What did you have to say about the pet death?

• 30:19Speaker 00

  Luckily, they didn't.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Beryl's passing, as it's also known.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, Beryl's passing.

• 30:23Speaker 01

  R.I.P. Beryl.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  The problem is, there are these things which you feel like they're grown up topics, so you shouldn't address them.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the most important ones.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Exactly. They're the biggest topics and you feel like, oh, I can't talk to children about that. It is, it's like on online stuff, you're like, well, I should say to them, but then I'm talking to them about a thing I don't want them to see.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  So maybe I shouldn't bring it up at all because they haven't seen it yet. So am I bringing it up? Is that bad enough that I'm saying this thing exists? Do you know what I mean?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Sometimes my daughter's chatting to like random school friends online.

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  So like, I've had to have a conversation about like, if you are chatting to someone on like a video call, you can't just like wander around filming yourself. I don't want to tell them off either, but go like, you can't just wander around like, because you're randomly filming behind you. So you've got to be aware of if you are filming people and things, you've got to get consent for other people to be in them. And then try and sit there and explain and go like,

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  Because people need to be made aware that they're being filmed and consent online. And I think if we have that conversation at home, it's better for them when they get a bit older.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  Totally. And the way to have these conversations isn't to go, let's sit down, this is a big deal.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  This is important.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  It is to just to have a conversation like a human being, like you or I would. I think the thing is not to be afraid of these conversations being embarrassing.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Whatever you do, your kids are gonna think you're embarrassing and cringe.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  That's such a good point.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Just have the chat. It's not embarrassing and cringe. It's just a way to be open, communicate and hopefully help them.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  These small conversations can build the trust that leads to bigger ones, like asking about their online lives, because keeping up keeps them safe.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  If you're looking for advice on how to have that chat or tools to help keep your family safe online, visit the Tesco Mobile Online Safety Hub.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  On that, right, could I, could I give you a sideways question about?

• 32:10Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  Well, there's two questions actually. The first one, which is, I think, important is that we're talking about, you know, you can do this, you, you know, go slow. What if someone feels they've gone too far and they want to backtrack?

• 32:25Speaker 02

  Okay, I understand. As in, you've given your child a lot of freedom online.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  It's much easier to set good standards early on. But there'll be people listening to this that go, I wish I'd done that.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  But I haven't done that. I feel probably guilty. I feel bad about it. How do I put the genie back in the bottle, so to speak?

• 32:47Speaker 02

  So one, my thoughts on it are, which are science based, it's never ever too late. If you think you've given your child too much freedom, again, I don't know why we think about the digital world so differently as to like the real world.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  You know, let's say you let your child out really late and then you're like, oh, I don't like it. I actually feel concerned. I don't think the nine o'clock curfew is okay for you. You need to be home by seven.

• 33:08Speaker 00

  I thought I was gonna be a lot later then. I now feel really bad.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  But little ones, little ones.

• 33:12Speaker 00

  Oh, right, okay.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  Not teenagers. Um, I would say, you know, think about, you as a parent have the authority to say some, I don't feel comfortable. But the way I would always do it is own it, like I'm actually saying here. Say, look, I let you play on X, Y, Z and I wasn't sure. Even if you're just worried and you don't know anything about it, let's say Roblox, you've just talked about it.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  I've actually got a real life example of The Sims. So I'll tell you what happened.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  So I said to them, my daughters love playing these games online like Roblox, where you create a little character in the world. So I thought, oh, let's bring it back into a closed world of The Sims. So I thought, oh, that'd be quite a good one, because then, like I say, you're closing the door on everyone and everything in the world. And actually, it's a really good game. However, we started playing it and then I was like, oh, hang on, I don't know if this might be a little bit too grown up. But I set it all up, they create their character and then they had a little house, they'd bought a cooker and a bed and a thingy and did some gardening and then they went, oh, can we play it tomorrow? Yeah, you can play it tomorrow. So I went to bed and I was like, oh, you know, you didn't feel comfortable. I looked at it, he said, age, and so I double checked the age rating, it's for 12, so definitely too old, eight and 10.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:12Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, well, what is it? And it said like, oh, sometimes they argue a little bit, blah, blah, blah. Then I remembered there's a bit where, obviously, the way Sims work.

• 34:19Speaker 00

  They're not up to it, are they?

• 34:20Speaker 01

  They're up to it.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  They're what?

• 34:21Speaker 01

  So basically, you create a person, like an adult. Yeah. And then basically they'll go like meeting neighbors and if they like them, they can go on a date. And then there's a scene where you click on the bed and you can say, well, I don't know what you click, but you get, and they get under the,

• 34:35Speaker 02

  Bad face.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Well, they get under the covers and they start humping.

• 34:38Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:39Speaker 01

  And all you see is like fireworks and like the bed.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Fireworks.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  And the bed moving and hard.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  High expectations.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Obviously, they hadn't seen any of this.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  So I was like, oh, Lou, and so Lou went, you can't let them play that. That's mental. And I was like, I know.

• 34:52Speaker 00

  Have they got to that?

• 34:53Speaker 01

  No. So all I've done is made them really excited and let them play a game that then now.

• 34:58Speaker 02

  And then you pulled it out.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  In the morning, I was really, because I felt really guilty, I'd set them up to be really excited and that's canceled. And then in the morning I said like, look, I've looked at it, it's not okay really, it's way too old for you, you shouldn't be playing it.

• 35:08Speaker 00

  You started playing it, didn't you?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm well into it now. And then, to be fair, my daughter went, okay, all right.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's what we, that's what we had with YouTube.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:17Speaker 02

  I mean, it's funny, right? Parents get so worried about it and often kids just go, all right.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  So that was a long story, an interruption to a, you know, four jokes about sex, but, um, but,

• 35:25Speaker 02

  No, no, I think it's a good story.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Is that how you would do it, or is that?

• 35:27Speaker 02

  So one, I would say if you're not sure, you're listening to this, you had, you know, you had the Roblox chat.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  TikTok or Roblox.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Or TikTok or what, and you're like, I'm not sure. One, I would say try watching it together.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:38Speaker 02

  Two, there's a really good website called Common Sense Media that I use all the time with my girl when it's around films and games and things like that.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:46Speaker 02

  Common Sense Media, you can find anything, online, offline, you know, videos, series, video games, all that kind of stuff. And it tells you the age rating.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 02

  So you would have seen that and gone, oh.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Right? And then it gives you like why, why it's got the age rating. But the really lovely thing that I like is it's got reviews from parents and sometimes children. So, one, go and check it as a parent, read it. And then I, I like to read it with my daughter, she can read.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Oh, so see why.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  She wanted to watch something that was actually rated 12, similar to you. And I was like, you're seven, I'm not okay with it. But rather than being like, I make the rule that you're, it's not okay.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  If you open it, read it, talk about it, it really helps kids understand, oh, that's why it's not appropriate for me.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Got you.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  And they're allowed to get upset, right? Like, that's a really important bit, I think, for parents that you like.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Because you're setting the boundaries and guidance, not their best mate.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  You're horrible, you're so mean. They're allowed to feel that way. And you're allowed to say as a parent, I let you do something that now I realize is not that great for you and you're not ready yet.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  You know, it's the yet bit. It doesn't mean you'll never get it. It means we just need to wait a little bit longer and then I'll let you watch it or do it or play with it.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  Because they just want to feel older a lot of the time, I think.

• 37:00Speaker 02

  They do, but you don't have to. Like, you can slow it down. And of course, I would always say, check, watch it, check those age ratings. My daughters watch films that are like, I don't know, PG. And some of them, she's scared of, for example, Wicked. We tried to watch Wicked together and she found it really scary. You know, some kids love it of her age. And I was like, we can listen to the music without you watching the film.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:21Speaker 02

  It really freaked her out. I was like, well, we'll try again next year and you can try again.

• 37:25Speaker 00

  We had that with, um, what's the pop, K-pop demon?

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:29Speaker 02

  Things like Home Alone.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's scary.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  But to them, she was like, but they're hitting people. And you know, we think it's hilarious.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  But she's little and because of how her brain is, to her, it's so concrete. She's like, but you said hitting people is bad. And you know, she can't, and the burglars. I mean, she's like, so does that mean that people can break into our house? You know, like,

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, what are we doing?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Only at Christmas if I'm in the alone.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  She wasn't ready. And again, some kids find it hilarious. So know your kids, but also make sure.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  She finds it hilarious, they're probably a bit not right.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Burgling, burgling with Dr. Marta.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  No, they're fine.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Marta, I've got one, he's actually loving the paint hat on the head.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  But I think, talk about it.

• 38:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  And then use, use what's available to you. Honestly, it's a really good website. Use stuff like that to kind of, and remember you're allowed to set a strong boundary with your kids. You're the parent. Like, that's really important.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  But do you, I think a lot of that is explaining the boundary. I think a lot of problems come if you go, these are the rules. Why? Because I make the rules.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  And that's quite handy with the government, with this is something, can we do another episode about teenagers? Because we're running out of time because we've just done the younger kids. But I think that teenager ban on social media, hopefully it's coming in, gives a lot of parents a bit of, you know, look, it's not just me to say.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Don't give us your views. There's a cliffhanger there.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  This has been amazing. Thank you so much.

• 38:55Speaker 00

  Can I just sum up that I think a lot of your stuff is like, slow is a really good thing to think about.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  Um, what was the name?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Common Sense Media.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Common Sense Media.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  And just spending, you know, it making it a dialogue, doing these things together, exploring them together. And it feels like you're saying, you know, it's not these hard and fast rules. It's not at six, this happens at seven, this happens at eight, this happens. It's just kind of exploring that journey with your kids. And I think being knowledgeable by exploring it yourself.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Yes, a hundred percent. Explore it first or with your child. Learn about it together. We, we didn't have any of these platforms growing up. So, you know, don't assume that you know what's out there if you haven't experienced it.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  And I think communication and building that relationship of trust with your child is the key. Because as soon as you start having these conversations about what's on the online world, you give them permission for it.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  They're more likely to come to you when they see something that distresses them or upsets them, even if it's somebody else's house. Because they know, oh, these conversations are allowed because my mum or dad have started it. I think that's the key for me. I want my daughters to know I'm a safe space. You can talk to me about anything. Um, and I can still make rules because I'm the mum. Like, that's my job. You don't have to love me. You don't have to love the rules, but I will explain them to you and we'll work together. You know, if she was really pushing for YouTube. I'd probably think of, okay, we'll watch some of it together.

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Or pick a certain creator. Cause that's the thing, there's some brilliant people on it.

• 40:28Speaker 02

  There are.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  You know, golf influencers, stuff like that. But also there's some not great stuff, but I think if you find the right bit.

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Can I ask one more thing on that? Cause I think.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  I thought you summed up.

• 40:38Speaker 00

  I know, but I had one more question.

• 40:39Speaker 01

  Question after the summer.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Well, we'll edit it earlier. I, cause I, I think what's interesting there is you, all these things are really good, but a lot of the problem comes when it collides with other parents.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:54Speaker 00

  And do you know what I mean? And other parents' rules and kids that come around to your house and they go, can we do this? And then you've got to apply your rules to them or your child goes around. How do you deal with stuff like that?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  It's a great question.

• 41:07Speaker 00

  Because it's embarrassing with another, whatever way it is, it's an, it's an embarrassing conversation with another parent.

• 41:14Speaker 01

  It's an awkward conversation.

• 41:14Speaker 00

  Because you're basically either going, I'm slightly better than you because I don't do this with my kid or you're going.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  You're scum. What you're doing. You're corrupting their young mind.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean?

• 41:24Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to be that.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  No, no, I'm not starting like, but that's what's, that's the alarm that's going off in your head if, if these conversations are.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  And I think this is one of the trickiest bit, actually, that, that kind of social.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  It's good that I dropped it in.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll do the sum up again in a minute.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  That social bit with the parents is, I think, the trickiest bit. Because you either feel exactly what you're saying, like I'm better than thou or.

• 41:45Speaker 00

  Must be doubly bad for you.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  It's awful for me.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely awful. But you know what? When people come and like, they're like, oh yeah, they did watch that film. They go, oh, so they watch TV? I'm like, of course they watch TV, but they don't watch YouTube, but.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Well, it's easy for you though, is it? Because they go, what does she know? Well, she's a clinical psychologist. Oh, she does know.

• 42:05Speaker 02

  I think it's hard, especially.

• 42:06Speaker 00

  Don't go to her house. It's boring. Make friends with another kid.

• 42:10Speaker 02

  Don't say that, Tom.

• 42:15Speaker 00

  They eat vegetables and do jigsaws all the time when you go around them.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  We do.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  We do.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  Why do they do that?

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Also, how do you, how do you deal with it then?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Um, I do, I mean, the way I think about it is when people come to your house, I always use this example because it's an easy one. But you're either a shoes off or a shoes on household.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  And when people come, they just have to, you're in their house, right?

• 42:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  So, you know, I'm a shoes off. I don't know where you are, but lots of people are, no, no, keep your shoes on. I don't take my shoes off if like, that's the thing they want me to do.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  I think it's weird when they say keep your shoes on. Cause I feel I want to take my shoes off, but now I can't.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  Well, I feel the same.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  This is a different debate.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  But this is a different debate, but it's just an example, right?

• 42:55Speaker 01

  That's a whole episode, that.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  You go into somebody's house and they have certain rules and you kind of follow them. You know, it's like etiquette.

• 43:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Some of it is etiquette, right? So you go in, so in my house, if they go, can we watch YouTube? I'll say, no, but you can watch something or you can play the switch. So I offer them alternatives. We're not that boring. But I will say, no YouTube. And if my daughter goes somewhere else, one, she will often say, I'm not allowed.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  And let's be honest, as parents, we're all doing our best.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  We're all making different decisions for our kids, but we're doing what we feel is best for them.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  And I think rather than being really judgy or being like, I'm better than you. It's about saying, sorry, my kid's a bit different and that's okay. So all the parents, and I don't think it's because it's me, maybe it is, but I don't think it is. All the parents whose homes we've been to, and I've said, my daughter doesn't watch YouTube, their kid, their kid has instantly said, if she can't watch it, I don't want to watch it.

• 43:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Like that has happened. That's what good friends do, right?

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  They protect, they protect each other. And they're like, well, if she can't do it, I won't do it. Let's do something else. Easy. Also loads of parents have said, that's absolutely fine. You know, my daughter not being able to watch certain films. I said about Wicked. There was a party, there was a film. I was like, she can't watch it. Like she's just going to freak out.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  And the mum said, thank you so much for telling me. I'll just find something else. It's not a big deal. So, you know.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  You've got not, basketball's down to adults caring what other adults think again. It don't matter.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Most parents who love your kid too, your friends, will want to do what's right for them, even if when your kid goes out the house, they're like, off you go, you can go on YouTube. That's up to them, right? But like, so think about it as, I always think we see other parents as, I don't know, in a competitive, negative way. But actually, most of the time, other parents are like compassionate and kind and loving, especially if they're in your circle.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  Well, when we talk about teenagers, I think it's a big thing, which we'll come to, which is, you know, a lot of that is affected by. I think it's almost more pronounced that parents thing. And we will find out finally.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  I would say something different about teenagers and what a good friend of your teen is that you might not like, but.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Do you know what I always, do you know what I always say? There's a saying for like worrying about people think, don't worry about what people think about you. Just know you're better. And is that a narcissistic trait? Thank you. See you next week.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  That's it for this week's special episode brought to you entirely by Tesco Mobile. Rob.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  I left that feeling really positive. Cause it's not like, this is right, this is wrong. You have to do this by this age. A lot of it is just like about having a great relationship with your kid and chatting and being open.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  I think as well, I think sometimes you're a bit awkward as a parent going, oh, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to say the wrong thing or upset my kid or be embarrassing and stuff. But the main thing she said was chat to your kids about what's going on. So you're not out of the loop. Keeping up keeps them safe.

• 45:54Speaker 00

  Visit the Tesco Mobile online safety hub where Tesco Mobile have got loads of tips for keeping you and your family safe online.