Share & Cool & Tell with David Dennis Jr. and Mina Kimes

Are athletes trying too hard to generate “aura”? Is Aaron Judge too big to be cool? Is a decidedly unc wardrobe an asset or liability for Jalen Hurts? The inaugural PTFO Coolest Athlete Draft reveals all. Further content: • Toward a Unified Theory of Uncool (Ock Sportello) https://www.neverhungover.club/p/toward-a-unified-theory-of-uncool • Subscribe to the Mina Kimes YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@minakimes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

  This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles, side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move?

• 0:42Pablo Torre?

  QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 1:09Speaker 01

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• 1:54Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools. It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger

• 2:39Pablo Torre?

  organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. I'm Pablo Torre and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by Remy Martin 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly because today we're going to find out what this sound is.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Are any of us cool? Do you think if people did the exercise we're about to do, anybody, they would say any of us are actually cool?

• 3:24Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  You're listening to DraftKings Network.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  This is a nice around the horn off ramp if I get to hang out with you guys. Okay, don't. I'm finding myself missing hanging, missing companionship.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  I know. Wednesday is usually when I do around the horn. I was thinking about that, actually.

• 3:59Pablo Torre?

  As someone who didn't attend the around the horn, there have been a lot of tributes, I should say, to a show that we owe a lot to. I don't think I went to an around the horn conference call in a decade. So as long as we can skip that part, I am down to refashion what we missed into this.

• 4:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  I don't know when I stopped attending the conference call, but I definitely Pablo was like the bad example to me. I was like, why am I doing this if Pablo's not doing it? I'm also on West Coast time.

• 4:32Pablo Torre?

  This is, by the way, this is how David realizes, oh, [BLEEP]. I could have not done the conference call.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  The whole time?

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Oh, I knew the whole time, but you know, hey, I was like, you know, being the good steward.

• 4:44Pablo Torre?

  I'm just the, look, as we will get into, I'm just the cool guy. I'm Bart Simpson, you know, just skateboarding, spray painting stuff.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Are any of us cool? Do you think if people did the exercise we're about to do, anybody, they would say any of us are actually cool?

• 5:03Pablo Torre?

  Well, we did last gather to do an entire episode about the X-Men animated series reboot.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  It's cool.

• 5:11Pablo Torre?

  Which I think is cool.

• 5:12Speaker 04

  Don't get cooler than that, guys.

• 5:15Pablo Torre?

  I think that there are some people out there who think that the three of us are cool. I think there are more people who would laugh at those people.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Have you ever been cool? Was there ever a point in your life where you felt like you were cool?

• 5:29Speaker 02

  When did you peak in coolness?

• 5:32Pablo Torre?

  Probably like

• 5:35Pablo Torre?

  third grade.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Third grade?

• 5:38Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 5:39Pablo Torre?

  Mina, what are you, you picking college?

• 5:42Speaker 02

  It's definitely college, right? Hundred percent. But a lot of that is because how cool you are is a product of your surroundings, right? And so going to college for me, my cool factor on a relative basis skyrocketed from high school to Yale. David's nodding like he had a similar experience.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  Absolutely. I'll just say that I went to, I went to school with a bunch of dorky white kids, a small liberal arts school. I was the coolest, I was the coolest guy around.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  I went, the like, the pendulum swang so drastically from high school to college, I didn't know what to do with myself.

• 6:18Pablo Torre?

  This is also where I need to remind people, Mina, that David Dennis Jr. is a former beer pong partner of his classmate at Davidson, Steph Curry. So he is both observer and participant.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  He wasn't cool when I was there either.

• 6:35Speaker 04

  He wasn't cool until like the last two, two weeks of my, my time at Davidson.

• 6:40Pablo Torre?

  But David, David Dennis Jr. was the original splash brother. This is a fact. This is real. This is not an exaggeration. Also, I am now banning officially Nick Wright. I just want to say, [bleep] you, Nick Wright. You're off the show. Uh, we can get into that a separate time.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Based on cool? You're banning him because he's not cool?

• 7:01Pablo Torre?

  Well, Mina, also because he did this to you today. Do you have any other media beefs going on right now at present?

• 7:08Speaker 05

  For the eighth straight year, First Things First was not nominated for Best Studio Show Weekly at the Sports Emmys. When I saw the list of nominations, I don't remember all of them, but one of them was NFL Live, hosted by, uh, one of my media rivals, Mina Kimes. And when I saw they won, I was very happy because I think that they do a really good job and I think Mina's excellent. Uh, obviously I don't think she's as good as me at anything, but I do think she is excellent and I was happy she won.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Is this why he's trying to grow his hair like Mina's or is that, is that a difference?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Nick Wright has been trying to do this whole rivalry thing with me now for four or five years and honestly, it's like, I don't know. What's a good comp?

• 8:07Speaker 04

  It's giving, it's giving, uh, Kobe stopper, Ruben Patterson era Kobe stopper.

• 8:11Pablo Torre?

  Oh, wow. Wow.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  That's what I'm getting from it. That's, that's the...

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Uh, I saw a tweet that when Brock Purdy signed his contract with her, like Brock Purdy joins like a ri- like rivals Josh Allen and like, maybe that's... Brock Purdy's great. Nick's great, but like, come on, let's, let's get real here.

• 8:29Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. Both, both Mr. Irrelevant, I dare say.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Hey, his show is really good.

• 8:35Pablo Torre?

  All right, fine. Let's start the actual show.

• 8:54Pablo Torre?

  So the thing I wanted to start with, guys, is in fact, a case study in cool. And it started on Substack, which is not the coolest place for things to start. But there's an anonymous author who goes by the handle of Oxportello, which is, I believe, a reference to Inherent Vice, already setting sort of like the highbrow kind of illusion.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, we know we're in here.

• 9:14Pablo Torre?

  We know we're harkening back. David, we asked David to read this. David, your initial review of the piece was, in brief?

• 9:22Speaker 04

  Um, I don't know, like, half the references that he made in the article, so. I had to look up what is, uh, what's the vape thing that everybody's doing?

• 9:35Speaker 02

  The Zen.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Zen and Zen internet. I don't know what that was. I had to read the cut article that was referenced in there. It was like a subsection of the internet that I'm not familiar with at all.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  You know, white people have culture too, David.

• 9:49Speaker 04

  Thank you, Mina. That's sort of where I was. It was a very much like, this is.

• 9:52Pablo Torre?

  All cultures matter. All cultures matter. But the thing that got this going viral around the NBA internet, at the very least, was one statement in particular that I think is consensus, and was articulated thusly, quote, "For as long as I can remember, the NBA has served as a cultural north star. These NBA playoffs portend a crisis of cool." And he goes on to analyze Jalen Brunson and Tyrese Halliburton and Shay Gildes Alexander, categorizing them as uncool, which I would like us to discuss. Anthony Edwards sort of sticks out as, quote, "the exception proving the rule of cool", that actually he is somebody who is so alone in his coolness

• 10:37Pablo Torre?

  that the others, who are variously, I would say, tryhard meme lords, who seem to be imitative of previous imitations even. There was a bunch of that. And so I just want to start, Mina, by actually articulating. What do we mean by cool? How do we even define this? Because, yes, it is one, I believe, white blogger's opinion that the categories flow as such. But I do think there's something he's getting at here that's worth talking about.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  So, cool is a perfect debate subject because no one can actually define it. Cool is truly in the eye of the beholder. However, when he says something like, "Tariq Haliburton and Jalen Brunson are not cool. Anthony Edwards is cool," I imagine we all nodded as we read that because it immediately reads as correct. So, starting from that point, it's not just about play. I think we can all agree upon that. There's a certain vibe, what the kids call aura. I would argue this piece gets at something that is both true and does actually help us arrive at a definition of cool. When he talked about how a lot of these guys, and he mentioned Halliburton and, of course, Tatum, are...

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Their sense of what is cool is just kind of memeing other things, right? It's derivative. I think cool is original. I think part of the reason why an Anthony Edwards feels cool is because he does not seem to be emulating anyone, either, you know, in his sense of self, the way he speaks, what he... In fact, he thinks he's better than everybody. Which doesn't... That in itself, you don't have to be, you know, super egotistical or whatever.

• 12:22Pablo Torre?

  But he was almost too cool for basketball. I mean, he was a quarterback, and he played football. He was like, "Football's actually the thing that I'm like, great at for a while," you know?

• 12:28Speaker 04

  He was too cool for Barack Hussein Obama. He looked at Obama and said, "Stand down, son," like he was a 12-year-old child.

• 12:37Speaker 06

  Yo, Kay, LeBian.

• 12:42Speaker 06

  Are y'all talking to this young man? Because he just keeps on... Right now, he just said he's the truth and all that, and... The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's what he said.

• 12:52Speaker 05

  You asked him, you tell him the whole context of the situation, though. You asked him what he think about this young man. And he said, I'm OK. I said, I'm the truth. He's tripping. That's what happened.

• 13:03Speaker 06

  I don't know with that.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  So funny, so funny. But I think, I think that if I had to isolate one variable, it is authenticity and originality. Would you guys agree with that?

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 13:15Pablo Torre?

  I would add one wrinkle, David, which is also, and I resemble this at times, and I am trying to be self-aware about this at times. Tryhardness. Like, somebody who really wants to be cool. Effort, transparency of effort feels like another anti-cool sort of aspect here. Yeah, what would you add to that?

• 13:39Speaker 04

  I think, yeah, I think that's important. The tryhardness is also, is important. But also, I think that like, I'm not sure that these dudes are any less cool than the people who came before them. I think that we're just not sort of distilling, um, like, there's not a way to distill their personalities in the way that we had. Like, immediately when I'm thinking about coolness in the NBA, I'm thinking of like slam covers. And like, we're sort of missing this packaging of how players are supposed to be kind of cooler than they may or may not have been, right? Like, there, these, a lot of these dudes are like AAU guys who just play basketball for all, you know, for a lot of time,

• 14:20Speaker 04

  which is different than like some of the guys from the 90s who also just went to school and like hung out with friends and like created their own culture and came from different regions and different regionality with different cultures. And these guys just play basketball all the time. And I think there's this belief that if we just see them on social media, we get to know the real them, which I didn't really get to know the real versions of a lot of these dudes. What I saw was these cool packaged Nike ads, or Reebok ads, or slam covers, and this way that cool was like disseminated to us. Like, think about somewhere like Reggie Miller, who you got the choke and he was like this kind of like, kind of annoying dude,

• 14:59Speaker 04

  but like he had this quote-unquote aura, and then he gets like unfettered mic time for three hours on TV as a color commentator, and everybody's like, shut up. Reggie Miller, we hate you. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's, you know, Reggie Miller is great and all that stuff. But like, that's kind of what, what it became. Because like, he had this like barrier and this packaging that created cool in a way that a lot of these athletes do not have right now. We just get their social media personalities and they're mic'd up. And we like see Jalen Brown being like, we're not wizards, we're Harry Potter. I think I'll be playing with the energy.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  They the magic, but they know we really got the magic over here. Oh, I like that. No Harry Potter. You know, like, we get a lot of that, what we didn't get before.

• 15:42Pablo Torre?

  There's also one thing, Nina, I think, which is that we are, look, the NBA has this like cultural barometer of cool, as the piece sort of leads with. Part of that is, as these things become increasingly corporate, as these things are like, you know, lineages that are increasingly formalized, as David was alluding to, we also get further away from what might be the fundamental tentative cool that we haven't mentioned yet, which is I think that you have to be kind of anti-authority. You kind of have to be subversive. So like, to me, the coolest figure when it comes to the modern NBA, that we have been sort of circling implicitly without naming him, is Allen Iverson.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  So that brings up the question, I have a question for both, for both of you, for all of us to ask, which is sort of a central part of this piece. Like, what, when you guys think of coolest athletes that you've ever experienced, who, who comes to mind?

• 16:31Speaker 02

  I love this question. Iverson's definitely up there in basketball. This, my football example, and I think this cuts to Pablo's theory. I think Marshawn Lynch is probably the cool, he might be the coolest human of his generation, but definitely the coolest football player, just everything about him. From style of play to the anti-authority aspect, to the way he spoke and carried himself to like the lore around him. I would contend that Ken Griffey Jr. is on the Mount Rushmore of cool athletes in any sport of any generation. And was, and you hit that.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Apex because he was actually one of the best of all time. And had this glow about him where you just saw him and you wanted to be him. Granted, we were the target generation for that. But there was just something about him, the way he played, the joy with which he played, the way he swung his bat, the way he wore his hat, the way he moved.

• 17:34Pablo Torre?

  The way he played for the Seattle Mariners for Mina Times growing up.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  Okay, I actually asked Cortez for a clip. I want you to watch this and tell me that any athlete has ever looked cooler than Ken Griffey Jr. looks in this clip.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Here's the pitch. There's a drive.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm sorry, but if you ever need to define aura, just play that 0.5 second clip.

• 18:01Pablo Torre?

  Just the Dolly shot pushing in on Ken Griffey Jr. winking and breaking, shattering the fourth wall with a wink is, yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  No athlete has ever looked cooler than that right there.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  This reminds me, this article and this whole idea reminds me kind of like when I was coming up in the hip hop blogs and I was reading like The New Yorker and there were like older dudes writing about like telling me what was cool and like what like Lil Wayne rhymed like Nigerian hair with whatever and like you should like him and it's like, well, you know, and so I think what fundamentally as humans you're going to always think is cool are people who are older than you, who grew up like.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  Who you grew up admiring and who you grew up wanting to be like. And I think for us as near 40 year olds, I don't think we can really determine what's cool or like none of these athletes are going to be cool. Like no 20, I don't think that any 24 year old is cool. There's not going to be a 24 or 25 year old that I will ever think is cool ever again. Like my dad is never, my dad is never like Michael Jordan is cool. He's like Elgin Baylor was the coolest basketball player ever because that's who he wanted to be.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  I think there's young football players who are cool actually, David, but to your earlier point, some of that is limited exposure, right? Like we don't really see them as much if they are naturally kept at a little bit of a distance from us. The helmet, they're not as present as basketball players. They don't talk as much.

• 19:26Speaker 02

  So I think that helps their cause.

• 19:28Pablo Torre?

  I do want to do a thing in a second here where we are gonna draft the coolest athletes across at least the three major sports in the present day. So we're gonna put this to the test. I'm gonna see that in your brains. We don't have to do it just yet, but we will answer and test David's theory about whether we are just afflicted with clinical old headitis and cannot possibly actually consider a young person cool. I also want to add a wrinkle as we assess the criteria here for the committee of our audience to judge us, because on-field play, right? So are we saying that that is, that is clearly not separate and apart? It is involved in the calculation, right?

• 20:13Speaker 02

  The reason why on-field play matters and as we do this like cool thing or try to figure out who the coolest guys are is there's nothing cooler for a professional athlete than being unbelievable at your sport and then backing it up with how you present yourself. And I think when we talk about the top guys, Griffey, Iverson, Lynch, they hit that. It's a very elusive, very elusive bar.

• 20:36Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, but so just the greatness though, right? Like, what does that get you? So Michael Jordan, I think, is a very reasonable answer, a very popular, might be the number one answer when people think of the coolest basketball player of all time because he, both as a marketing vehicle, was unprecedented for the obvious Nike, et cetera, reasons and every other sponsor thing, right? For our generation. Also because when it came to be the most pressurized moments, he had the greatest legend and arguably the greatest performance. So there's that. But then we get to, for instance, like to discern a bit of the lineage when it comes to Kobe. I'm like, I think there are lots of people who think that Kobe's cool, but I see an imitation of Michael Jordan. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna dock points for that.

• 21:20Pablo Torre?

  I think Kobe is, was, as great as he was, a legendary tryhard by the time that he became the guy who was brand All of his Mamba stuff, which is to say that I think the answers to the draft as we go around in a in some sort of order, David, there's a I know it when I see it definition as opposed to like some strict criteria for better and for worse.

• 21:43Speaker 04

  Can I dump out a hot take real quick?

• 21:45Pablo Torre?

  Please.

• 21:45Speaker 04

  I'm not sure Michael Jordan was that cool.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  Like, I'm sorry, like, when we, when you watch The Last Dance and you're like, this dude is like, talking to this baseball bat and he's like jamming to Anita Baker before the playoffs. Like, this dude is not that, like, I remember way, way back, he did an interview, and this sticks out to me so much, like, he did some sort of interview and they were like, what is your favorite artist? I mean, this ages poorly, but, you know, for other reasons, but he was like Robert Kelly. And I was like, who calls him Robert Kelly? Like, who did, like, I don't know, like, there's just so many things about Michael Jordan that I'm just like, it was all ads, all this stuff, like, is Michael Jordan actually really cool? And by, by, you know, extension of that, is Kobe Bryant even less cool because he wanted to be like Michael Jordan, who was not even really that cool?

• 22:30Speaker 02

  Where's that leave Tatum, who's doing the third, third round of beaming? I think you, you hit on just like, the more we see of someone, the less, there's just, there's an absolutely an inverse relationship between exposure and coolness and no amount of, no matter how cool you are, the more we see of you, the less cool you're gonna be.

• 22:56Pablo Torre?

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• 23:27Pablo Torre?

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• 24:11Pablo Torre?

  fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Plus, you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss. Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 24:34Pablo Torre?

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• 25:18Pablo Torre?

  so you can compare listings with greater confidence. And with more than 4 million listings, CarGurus has the biggest selection of cars. So it's easier than ever to find the right car and the right deal. It is no wonder CarGurus is the number one most-visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. So buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus at cargurus.com. Go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot com. Cargurus.com.

• 25:57Speaker 03

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• 26:28Pablo Torre?

  Should we get this draft going?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  So, current players, right? Current athletes. You have to be active.

• 26:33Pablo Torre?

  I think we should do coolest player per sport for the three biggest sports. So we each pick one. So we're each gonna draft our pick for who we think the coolest is. And if someone has drafted them, we cannot take them. And we will show our results at the end. Because I love, I love a draft chart results.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  So, I'm gonna say this one. And, oh, this is a player who I've gotten a lot of grief from their fanbase because I consistently have him behind two other quarterbacks in football votes and whatnot. But I think Joe Burrow is incredibly cool.

• 27:10Pablo Torre?

  Hmm, he has the nickname.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  He, no, yeah, right. But he plays cool. He has these like credible big moments. He's ice cold. And the way he presents on and off the field is legitimately cool. I really believe that.

• 27:27Pablo Torre?

  Counterpoint. Counterpoint. I don't think Joe Burrow saying stuff is cool. I don't think Joe Burrow says cool stuff. I think he does cool stuff on the field.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  I think he says cool stuff.

• 27:42Pablo Torre?

  Does he?

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  He knows all the words to get the gap from his time at LSU. So I think that's pretty cool.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  The championship picture is one of the coolest pictures ever taken of him smoking a cigar. But I would say like he, the way he talks when he's interviewed, he's not very, he limits his exposure, which is what cool guys do. When he speaks, like he puts pressure on his organization to do stuff. He's pretty plain spoken. I, yeah, I, like, I think Lamar Jackson is the coolest football player to watch, but I don't think he has enough of a persona for me.

• 28:18Pablo Torre?

  Hmm, so Lamar gets, okay, so I'll go next, a second. Lamar has the anti- Authority thing going.

• 28:27Pablo Torre?

  The fact that he doesn't have a conventional agent, for better and for worse. I don't know if that's cool in the classic sense, but it's sort of like a [bleep] you to the way that like football and business tends to operate. So the case for Lamar is is strong, but I think I'm gonna go Jalen Hurts.

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Oh, terrible choice, David. David.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Horrible choice, David.

• 28:51Pablo Torre?

  Tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me where I'm wrong.

• 28:54Speaker 04

  Okay, you go, Mina, go, go for it, go for it.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  I don't know. Can I use the word unk, first of all?

• 29:03Speaker 02

  I need a ruling from, uh, from my compatriot here. Jalen Hurts, I think is an amazing person and, uh, uh, I'm a huge fan of his in a million different ways. But he is not cool. Like, he dresses and acts like a 45-year-old man.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  He's not, he's, he's lean, he leans in to 90s fine. Like, that is his whole personality. Like, he is, he is living, single-era, fine man.

• 29:31Pablo Torre?

  So far, I'm waiting for the problem. I remain waiting for the problem. That, again, I grew up thinking that's what cool looks like.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  He speaks in cliches. He speaks in like football talk. He has no, he is the ultimate, it's funny, because he just did something that you could say it was anti-authority, so he just points to that.

• 29:48Pablo Torre?

  That's what I'm thinking about.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, but for the most part, the man, when he was in college, I believe, said he related to Nick Saban.

• 29:58Pablo Torre?

  Okay, that's uncool. That's pretty uncool. I didn't have that in my oppo research file.

• 30:03Speaker 04

  The thing that helps Jalen Hurts is that now he stands next to Saquon Barkley for the rest of the season. And by virtue of that, he is going to be the coolest dude. Because he is anti-Saquon Barkley, and I think that that's gonna elevate him way further than he would have been otherwise. What, the thing that'll get Jalen Hurts, that, that the test is, and I don't know how this has not happened yet. How is he not going through the Jennifer Hudson tunnel yet?

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Because he has good management who will not, not, not reveal that to the world.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  That's gonna make or break him. When he goes through that tunnel, we'll see what kind of, what kind of cool.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Football players have gone through that tunnel, right?

• 30:36Speaker 04

  No, I don't think we have one yet.

• 30:37Pablo Torre?

  He's gonna go through that tunnel. Oh, my God. Um, hold on, there's, there's a reference I'm gonna pull out and Google while David answers.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  If you had to go through this.

• 30:48Pablo Torre?

  First off, that is a show that I only know, of course, because of the tunnel. It's, I don't know what else happens on the Jennifer Hudson Show. I assume good stuff happens. I just know it as the tunnel. I did see recently Randall Park go through the tunnel. If you recall, I'm an Asian dude, and he proceeded to like do a mixture of, well, we'll show this in post. A mixture of like, sort of like popping and locking, where I was like, I would aspire to do that and not be nearly as good.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Asian dudes who can dance constantly go viral for crushing the tunnel. This is my algorithm. Like the dude from The White Lotus, Guy Talk, crushed it in the tunnel.

• 31:25Speaker 04

  Here's the thing about the Jennifer Hudson Tunnel that is fascinating, is that they managed to know the algorithms, because I don't think I've seen a single white person go through the tunnel. And then when I talk to white folks about the Jennifer Hudson Tunnel, they just like reference white people went through.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  So I'm getting all the Asians. I'm getting Asians and like the hot guy from Lion King.

• 31:43Speaker 04

  Right, I don't know.

• 31:46Pablo Torre?

  I did see Usher go through it on skates. And I was like, damn.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Feral comment section. Okay, sorry. Dave, what's your pick?

• 31:53Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, what do you got?

• 31:55Speaker 04

  My pick here, Lamar Jackson. Just like, I was thankful that you guys had picked Lamar Jackson. I love Lamar Jackson. Just because I think there's also this like unfiltered interview that like is part of it. And also, he has an unfair advantage. His name is Lamar Jackson. Like, it's like, come on.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Style of play gets him like 95% of the way there because he is truly the coolest.

• 32:29Pablo Torre?

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• 33:10Pablo Torre?

  Just mix a packet of Instant Hydration with water and I am feeling ready to push through to the end of the day. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/ptfo and use my promo code PTFO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com/ptfo, promo code PTFO. Life in 2026 is tough. We all have our struggles and we could all use some help. But trying to figure out how to get the right mental health treatment for you can feel overwhelming. Talkiatory helps you move from "I know I need help" to actually having a psychiatrist who listens and a clear personalized treatment plan.

• 33:55Pablo Torre?

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• 34:37Pablo Torre?

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• 35:20Pablo Torre?

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• 35:49Pablo Torre?

  The NBA. David, we're gonna snake draft it. Go the other way.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  Are we doing NBA or we're doing basketball? Because, because here's my, because here's the thing that I also got out of this article that restarted this whole thing from. This seems to be a male-centric problem, because there are like 15 or 20 cool-ass WNBA players that I'm obsessed with at all times. And so, if I had to pick all of basketball, my number one pick would be Aja Wilson, because she's like the coolest person in basketball, I think, right now. She's like, an incredible interview. She won the championship and talked about all the tequila shots she was gonna drink.

• 36:27Speaker 05

  You have to take four shots. Children take shots of ginger ale, but you gotta take four shots before you pull up to the parade and drink responsibly.

• 36:37Speaker 04

  She has the new shoe out, which helps. She has the like, really cool internet soft-launch, hard-launch, bam, out of bio thing going on. She's the best player in the world by a large margin. And I just don't think that this article really applies to women, really. Like, there are so many cool-ass women athletes, and there's a larger pick thing to discuss, I think, about like, women and how they You know, drive the culture and like make stuff cool in a way that guys kind of are not doing, which goes to the zen and the manosphere and all that stuff. But like, there are so many cool ass WNBA players that are so much cooler than NBA players. And AJ would be my number one pick in basketball by far.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  They've also been cool for a while, I think is the other thing, right? Like, this isn't like, oh wow, all of a sudden we have this like cool new generation. Obviously, the WNBA is exploding in popularity, but Diana Taurasi is one of the coolest humans to walk this.

• 37:27Pablo Torre?

  She does, by the way, an awesome at a microphone, does not give a fuck, is incredible.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  But meets the parameters I established earlier.

• 37:34Pablo Torre?

  And the greatest of all time.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Goat player, yeah, one of the goat players backed it up, great on the mic, very, she might be on my Mount Rushmore of cool.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Great at social media. All of these WNBA players are great at social media. Like, the more we know them, the more we get to like them.

• 37:50Pablo Torre?

  So Steph, not even a consideration for you? Like, you're like, nah, not even, no. Like, because Steph is the ultimate example to me of playing style getting you on the list. Not number one, but just like on the list.

• 38:04Speaker 04

  And I think he is absolutely one of the coolest players. He has a cool celebration. He's like probably the most like, um, old school, I'm gonna text or call somebody when he's doing something dope.

• 38:14Pablo Torre?

  Even though he's a nepo baby, even though he is.

• 38:16Speaker 04

  He's always, even though he's a nepo baby, but like Steph has always had this like, I think the arc of coolness has shifted more towards him.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  Well, authenticity again is kind of the driving theme here.

• 38:27Pablo Torre?

  I think that's, that's fair. Influence, he's been so influential, yeah.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  A friend's house who has two small boys and they're both into basketball, like six and four. And I asked them, which player would you want to play with and like, play like? And both said Steph. And it's like, wow, we're still on, it's still going, you know? They're not saying Lamelo or Ja, but um.

• 38:48Pablo Torre?

  Well, that brings me to my pick, because my pick is Ja Morant with an asterisk.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:54Pablo Torre?

  I think that's, look, the unsaid thing in this article.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  So sad.

• 38:58Pablo Torre?

  It was, everyone was ready. I had a friend who worked on, uh. It's part of the Nike campaign that they were doing for Ja as all of this stuff was unfolding. And they had to blow it up and make it less cool because they had to make it so that actually Ja Morant was more palatable. To an audience that expected him to be a massive [BEEP] up who loved playing with guns. Like, there is a line beyond which you go too far. And as much as the anti-authority thing is, is part of it, like he, at a certain point, you gotta know when to just stop. And that's where it became untenable.

• 39:37Speaker 04

  I think Ja Morant is fine, guys. Like, I just think that, like, if he played better, it'd be fine. Like, you know, like, if he came back and was, and was healthy, and they had, like, deep playoff runs. Like, I'm just, I, like, I, I just don't think you're gonna get a whole bunch of people who are just gonna get too up, upset about, like, people liking guns in this country. You know what I'm saying?

• 39:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:56Speaker 04

  You know, like, I just think that, like-

• 39:57Speaker 02

  People have forgotten and forgiven way worse in all these sports we're talking about.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  Exactly. And, like, we're not gonna finger wag at a dude and his love of guns. And the bad, and, you know, there's a lot more, it's more complicated and complicated than that.

• 40:09Pablo Torre?

  It's more, it's more like, can you stay on the court, is my concern.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  Right. I think, I think, yeah, I think if he came back from this thing and the Grizzlies, or if, if the Grizzlies are playing now, for instance, right, and he's playing in the conference finals, I think he's fine. And, like, whatever, you lose your Nike campaign, whatever, I think he's still in a point where he's one of the coolest dudes ever. The problem is, you're still doing this, like, anti-authority celebration when you're not, like, that good or good enough to warrant it right now. And I think that's probably the big problem.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  I do think the anti-authority aspect of him, it feels, it doesn't feel as cool. I mean, for obvious reasons, but also it just doesn't feel, it feels a little bit, and this cuts to the original premise of this piece, is a little bit cosplay-y in a way that I think is something we sniff out with a lot of people. Whether they're cosplaying, you know, gestures, or Kobe imitators, or being anti-authority, there is a sense of, like, is this really you? Like, what you doing, bud? My pick is, I think, to, it certainly corroborates the thesis of no younger players, is an older guy. I'm gonna go Dame.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  I think Dame is one of the coolest athletes alive. Obviously, he is at the end of his career. I think of the hardest NBA photo, one of them of all time, which is the game winner OKC looking at the camera. I mean, I know I said earlier that no one has better looked ever cooler than Griffey, but like-

• 41:37Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, Mina has a clear thing for who she thinks is cool. It's looking into a camera.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  If you do something cool and look straight into a camera, you're probably cool. But David, that photo, I mean, come on, it's-

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, that's- I mean, also another great celebration-

• 41:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, another great-

• 41:56Speaker 04

  And the very, very rare accomplishment of being an athlete who raps and people still respect you. Like, that's, that's one thing that, that, uh-

• 42:06Pablo Torre?

  That is hard.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that usually docks off a ton of points if you're trying to rap, but he got Lil Wayne on his album.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  I am also realizing a lot of my picks are really handsome guys.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Also, like, does make you cool, cooler.

• 42:19Speaker 04

  I mean, I picked Asia Wilson, so I get it, same thing.

• 42:22Pablo Torre?

  I mean, Jalen Hurts, guys, is clearly a beautiful person.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  He is.

• 42:26Pablo Torre?

  Objectively beautiful person. Okay, so, baseball. Are we ready to move on to baseball or any other takes we want to get off? One side, actually, one side brief postscript take about the NBA. Because, David, you were hinting at this before and Mina as well, like, as much as the current generation of NBA players might be starving for cool in the way that bloggers and others will approve of, if you go through, like, is LeBron cool?

• 42:54Speaker 02

  I don't think- LeBron's like an iPhone, like, he's too- No, he's like too much of a monolith. It's like Taylor Swift, you know? Like, it's too, it's too big to be cool.

• 43:06Pablo Torre?

  He's a literal corporation who is also trying very hard at all times. But if you just go through the list of like Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, James Harden, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Paul George, I'm going through just like all NBA caliber guys. It's not like we have been dealing with a bumper crop of the previous generation where it's like, man, those guys check all the boxes, you know?

• 43:26Speaker 04

  I mean, we can get into second apron and players moving around and stuff like that, but I think a lot of the players that we all thought were the coolest were not necessarily the best players in- The game, right?

• 43:36Pablo Torre?

  Rasheed Wallace.

• 43:37Speaker 04

  Like, yeah, there's the Rasheed Wa- there's like, you know, like JR Rider and the Between the Legs Dunk, or like, you know, Eric Payton, who was all, you know, this All-NBA was never like the best player in the world. He was just a cool ass player, you know, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, like those type of dudes were always really cool. And we loved them, we collected their basketball cards, we like did all this stuff that, that, you know, we loved about them. The Clippers, they're like, Q Rich Clippers and all that, Darius Miles and them. Like, those are people that we loved, they were not necessarily the best um in the world. And I think that like, it's kind of shortens our list and like the potential of who we're gonna pick. If we're only looking at all NBA players, that's never always been the case about who we think is great. And it's also good to note that like, we did have a draft and neither one of us really picked an NBA player.

• 44:22Speaker 04

  Like, we kind of picked like, an old, like a Dame who's not gonna play, and Asia Wilson who's not in the league, and Ja who's like...

• 44:29Speaker 02

  The guy, the guy's argument checks out.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Our picks kind of illustrated for him. Baseball's very top-heavy.

• 44:39Pablo Torre?

  I mean, I think the question...

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Do I get to pick first?

• 44:43Pablo Torre?

  Mina goes first, and there is a question that I'm wondering if she will ask out loud as she makes her first pick.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Well, there's two guys, I think, who are clearly the two coolest guys in baseball. That's how I feel. So I'm deciding between the two of them. I'm taking Mookie here.

• 44:58Pablo Torre?

  Mm, mm-hmm.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  He's just so cool. He is a joy to, he's an amazing player, he's a joy to watch. He seems like a legitimately awesome dude, but he's funny and he, to me, has the clo- is the closest thing in spirit to Griffey in this generation.

• 45:19Pablo Torre?

  He's also really good at bowling, and I want to unpack whether that makes him cool or not. Because he is like a professional caliber bowler, he's bowled a perfect 300.

• 45:28Speaker 04

  Another wildly attractive person.

• 45:31Speaker 02

  And he knows to keep that hat on, you know? He's played the right sport.

• 45:37Speaker 02

  That's true, I am taking only hotties. I wanted to say, speaking of hotties, Julio Rodriguez, but I can't. The homer allegations would be too strong.

• 45:45Pablo Torre?

  Are we, are we saying definitively, because Mina brought us to the, to the team in question? Like Shohei Ohtani, not cool?

• 45:54Speaker 02

  I think he's cool.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  I think he's cool. I think Shohei, he was my pick. Shohei was my pick, though the [bleep] over Republic, he's my pick. I think just virtue of being, I think that sometimes it's virtue of just being good as hell and the dopest at your sport, like, goes a long way. And he, and we also have a barrier, we don't get, we don't know that much about him.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  His mysteriousness.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  This mysterious dude who just goes out there and is better than everybody.

• 46:18Pablo Torre?

  Does he have a crippling gambling addiction? You know, these are, these are, these are ongoing mysteries.

• 46:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  He also, even when he is not playing, just watching him like move in the world, a lot of this is carried by just his, how physically imposing he is.

• 46:33Pablo Torre?

  He is enormous.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  He has like star power and he's incredibly handsome.

• 46:38Speaker 04

  And, and watching other baseball players react to him also makes him cool. Because it is like, Ohtani is like when Beyonce walks in the room.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:47Pablo Torre?

  Right, right, right, right. People are in awe of the sound that the ball makes off his bat. People are in awe of his physical stature. People are in awe that he can do any of this. Um, he also is, I think, to the earlier point, like, so private that it creates this aura of its own.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Being private is cool.

• 47:05Pablo Torre?

  I, I think, I think we're learning that too. Like, being less online on some level actually does, in this era. Um, yeah, it, it creates the intrigue that, uh, I think rates as cool. I think I gotta go with, uh, I'm looking up his age right now to, to invalidate David's theory about how we can't really respect young people, as I continue to draft some young people. I'm going Eli De La Cruz.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Great cool player.

• 47:29Pablo Torre?

  So, he's, he's, he's not like, again, household name necessarily, but he should be if you like baseball in any vague way. He stole a zillion bases, he had 20, I think it was 25 and 65 was the first shortstop to ever do it. And that dude playing in the Cincinnati region, I'm like, yeah, I think that's, that feels like conventional, like, that's just an all-time athlete doing cool stuff. And I select him.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Aaron Judge, not cool?

• 47:57Pablo Torre?

  I wanna say.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  What's the difference between Aaron Judge and a... Yeah.

• 48:02Pablo Torre?

  I think, I think there's kind of a, there's almost like a parallel to like sneaker sales to me. Where like the guys who are too large aren't as cool. Like, no one's really, I mean, the big man, Aaron Judge is too large, I think, to be cool. Jazz Chisholm, though, on the Yankees, is cool and has like, you know, speed and flair and all that stuff.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, being, okay, this actually connects to Steph and Dame and being small and being really, really good, elite at a sport is a real fast track to being cool. Because there's like an underdog aspect to it that instantly makes you cool.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  And just the style of play, just like crossing people over lends itself to more like acrobatics. Like the people I mentioned, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, those guys, like, we grew up loving those dudes, like, point guards, point guards are just gonna lend themselves to being cool nine times out of 10.

• 48:54Pablo Torre?

  Is Jokic cool? Is Nikola Jokic, who oh, Mina's shaking her head, no, immediately. He doesn't care, he's not effortful in the way that we expect athletes to care. But he's also clearly yeah, I think he's one of the most skilled players in NBA history. Why isn't he cool? Big man, is it the big man thing?

• 49:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:17Speaker 04

  I think part of it's the big man thing. Part of it, I think, is that I don't think people, you know, as superficial as it sounds, I don't think people aspire to look like him, you know? I think there's like um, this feeling of, yeah, he shows up to work and he just kinda doesn't care and he leaves and goes, does his horses and everything, I think there's something to that. I actually think if he were a little bit worse at basketball, he'd be more popular. I just think like, he's almost like too good, it's like, you know, like

• 49:45Speaker 02

  What a great take.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Right, cuz I think like, like, when I think about like Shaq, right, like Shaq, one of the things about Shaq that was so relatable, to me especially, like, is that this dude was dominant, but you always felt like he could be a little better if he just didn't wanna like breakdance and rap and DJ as much, but like, he kinda wanted to breakdance and rap and DJ a little bit more. So it'd be like, it'd be like if Jokic were a little bit worse.

• 50:07Pablo Torre?

  If Jokic wanted to play a genie in a movie.

• 50:11Speaker 04

  Right, you're right.

• 50:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, if Yoko Tru is a little bit worse, he'd be more popular. He's just too good to be popular.

• 50:19Pablo Torre?

  So I want to recap what we've done here today. In the NFL, the three coolest players as appointed by the three of us. Number one, Mina Kimes took Joe Burrow. Number two, I took Jalen Hurts with, and parentheses I want next to it, with Kangol. Kangol is essential. And number three, David Dennis Jr. took Lamar Jackson. What did we do for the NBA? Who remembers what we did? Oh, David, right. It was David Dennis Jr., number one, Aja Wilson. Me, number two, Ja Morant asterisk. Number three.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Your picks have asterisks.

• 50:55Pablo Torre?

  My picks are great so far. Number three, Mina Kimes, Dame Lillard, looking into the camera like [bleep] Jim Halpert. Or Randall Park. And then, baseball, number one, Mina took Mookie Betts. Number two, I took Eli De La Cruz. And number three, David Dennis Jr. took.

• 51:13Speaker 04

  Shohei Ohtani.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  Shohei Ohtani, yeah.

• 51:16Pablo Torre?

  Damn, how did David out-Asian us?

• 51:18Speaker 04

  Not gonna.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  David ended up with Lamar Jackson, Aja Wilson, and Shohei Ohtani. He kind of bodied this draft.

• 51:27Pablo Torre?

  I wound up with a Kangol and potentially future gun charges. Which is suboptimal, I guess.

• 51:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, I want the graphics to have each of the names by, you know, who we picked. And so that it could be in graphic immortality that I smoked you guys in this draft.

• 51:57Pablo Torre?

  At the end of every episode of Baller Dory Finds Out, we go around and say what we found out today after having a, I would say, a pretty in-depth discussion of cool.

• 52:08Pablo Torre?

  Mina, what did you find out?

• 52:10Speaker 02

  I found out that I didn't have time to get in a mention of my podcast with David Dennis Jr., but I'm gonna talk about it right here, y'all, if you're still listening. David and I have been doing this Love is Blind pod now for a few, couple of years. We've done three seasons now, David? Is that right? Yeah. And it's a YouTube show and it became a podcast. And we enjoyed doing it so much that we are expanding into a ongoing, general TV and entertainment show, which you can watch on youtube.com/appminaKimes or you can subscribe to. The new name of the show is Viewer Discretion with Mina Kimes and David Dennis Jr. Thank you. I like that.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  The first show we will be recapping is the upcoming season of Love Island. But we are going to be doing non-reality shows, non-romantic shows as well. However, Love Island, really, last season was one of the greatest seasons of reality television ever made. For those who don't know, Odell Beckham Jr.'s brother won. What?

• 53:13Speaker 04

  Cool. An absolute cool dude.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  What's his name? Extremely cool. Cordell Beckham, who's now kinda more famous than OBJ in certain circles. But anyways, go check it out. Viewer discretion. You can just look up my name, you can look up David's name, and give us a subscribe rate and review.

• 53:30Pablo Torre?

  What I found out, David, is that Mina also showed up to today's episode of Palatour Finds Out with multiple clips. And so there is a clip from, I believe, one of the reality shows in question that Cortez could not be more excited about, and I have no idea what this is, so I'm about to find out right now.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  Do you ever get told you look like a celebrity? Yeah. Do you? I do. I do too. All the time on the plane, I get one person. And it's just because I have dark hair and blue eyes.

• 53:58Pablo Torre?

  Ooh.

• 54:00Speaker 04

  But I don't see it, so don't get excited.

• 54:04Pablo Torre?

  Say it. What's he writing down in that notebook?

• 54:07Speaker 04

  MG, I don't even know if it's MGK's wife or his girlfriend.

• 54:13Pablo Torre?

  Oh, no. Megan Fox? Are you saying he looks like Megan Fox?

• 54:19Speaker 02

  It's just because I have light eyes and dark hair. That's the only reason. There's nothing else.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  At least I'm assuming so.

• 54:29Speaker 05

  I mean.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  Listen, listen buddy. What'd you say?

• 54:39Pablo Torre?

  So I guess I should, it has been whispered into my ear because I didn't realize this until Rob whispered it. They can't see each other at that point?

• 54:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:49Pablo Torre?

  Because there is a wall that's the whole blind.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  He's gonna propose to Megan Fox, yeah.

• 54:53Pablo Torre?

  Yes. And so I am told now reliably, we have the reveal when they can't see each other.

• 54:58Speaker 02

  Oh, God. No.

• 55:01Speaker 05

  Sort of like hit on looks, but.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Not for you.

• 55:10Speaker 05

  She definitely lied to me on some how she looked. Chelsea told me she looked like Megan Fox.

• 55:21Speaker 05

  But, you know, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. I'm very tried to her. I can work with that.

• 55:29Pablo Torre?

  What an emotional roller coaster. That guy ended up being cool with this.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  It's the cruelest edit I've ever seen in a reality show.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  You also didn't get to see when they meet. There's a moment where he as a gym helper looked to the camera right after meeting her when they hug. That is one of the most themed moments in Love is Blind history. David and I have probably spent no less than three hours breaking down the Megan Fox moment. If you're into that sort of thing, if you like listening to two people who treat these shows like the game tape that it deserves to be treated like, check out our podcast.

• 56:01Pablo Torre?

  Thank you both for helping me find out more than I bargained for.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  You're welcome, Pablo.

• 56:09Pablo Torre?

  Staring into the camera and wink.

• 56:23Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Avaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song as always is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.

• 57:04Speaker 03

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• 57:31Speaker 03

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