Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out The Sporting Class: Welcome to Football Coachella About this episode The NFL Draft is such a tediously fascinating test of power that it's near impossible to turn off. John Skipper and David Samson help Pablo find the entertainment magic in the gathering — and examine the collusion theory of Shedeur Sanders' fall (especially now that the White House is taking credit for stopping it). Plus: the case for a neutral-site World Series, table integrity, kowtowing, apricity, Sweet on the Road... and OnlyGoys.
Further content:
• Subscribe to Nothing Personal with David Samson
https://www.youtube.com/@NPDS
• Shedeur Sanders' NFL Draft fall wasn't a surprise. Teams never saw QB as first-round talent (Jeff Howe)
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6307646/2025/04/25/nfl-draft-shedeur-sanders-fall-not-surprise/
• Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL? (Mike Tollin)https://www.netflix.com/title/70135734
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Transcript 10,652 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:48 Pablo Torre? This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move?
2:30 Pablo Torre? QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California, and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're gonna find out what this sound is. So wait, so is the 10 inches, is that David Samson? Or is that standard lang?
3:09 Speaker 02 Oh, this is standard.
3:11 Pablo Torre? Right after this ad.
3:14 Pablo Torre? You're listening to DraftKings Network.
3:29 Pablo Torre? Of course, we start like this. Are we rolling, by the way?
3:35 Pablo Torre? We are? So people are aware of what just happened? Which is to say that David Samson tried to orchestrate a pre-show switcheroo only to have it blow up in his face.
3:46 Speaker 02 I was so close to greatness. You had a tiny chair in my seat, and I moved it to John, and John immediately realized that he was not. We're good.
3:58 Pablo Torre? Are we good?
3:59 Speaker 02 No.
4:03 Pablo Torre? John switched the chair out, switched the chair back in once he realized. There it is.
4:10 Pablo Torre? John just winked at David.
4:13 Speaker 03 A team player.
4:14 Pablo Torre? Hold on, let's get your microphone on.
4:18 Pablo Torre? There it is.
4:19 Speaker 03 I wanna be louder, too.
4:23 Speaker 02 How long have you been doing this show together?
4:25 Pablo Torre? Ah, somewhere between
4:26 Speaker 02 One in two years?
4:27 Pablo Torre? Years and fifty.
4:29 Speaker 03 Never gets old.
4:30 Speaker 02 Never gets old. Jinx.
4:33 Speaker 03 Tiresome potentially, but never old.
4:35 Pablo Torre? Every time I think I'm, I'm, I'm over the metaphor of you guys arguing about which chair you're sitting in, I'm like, nope. Nope, we're doing it.
4:43 Speaker 02 If cameras were rolling during our prep, which goes on in between shows and us talking about the different topics we want to talk about, John has a threshold for subjects that he'll discuss. He says, basically, and I'm paraphrasing, that we can never put him in a position-
4:58 Speaker 03 Thank you.
5:00 Pablo Torre? Pounding the table.
5:01 Speaker 02 Oh, God. Paraphrasing, but John wants us to protect him.
5:05 Pablo Torre? Your, your philosophy around chair integrity should make you more worried about table integrity.
5:10 Speaker 02 I have no table integrity.
5:12 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
5:13 Speaker 02 I do find this to be a high table. In any case, I believe we have a lot of great things to talk about today, but John always has to make sure that his chair is right, that his microphone is right, and that he is, God's sort of the power over us with the subject matter.
5:24 Pablo Torre? Hmm.
5:25 Speaker 02 And I respect it. You've earned it, John. You've had a great run that you still are on. I respect that we have to kowtow to you and all of your proclivities.
5:34 Pablo Torre? Wow. Did you see the way he shook his hands when he said the word proclivities?
5:37 Speaker 03 It's a good word. You know where the word kowtow comes from?
5:41 Speaker 02 Yes, I do. It is, it's actually Asian.
5:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's a beaissance to the Chinese emperor. You have to prostrate yourself and that's called-
5:51 Speaker 02 Genuflect in his general direction.
5:52 Speaker 03 And that's called kowtow.
5:53 Speaker 02 K A, K O W?
5:55 Speaker 03 T O W.
5:56 Speaker 02 T O W.
5:57 Pablo Torre? I was so ready to cancel both of you guys, uh, and I am now unfortunately here to, uh, tell the audience that they are correct. It did originate in China.
6:08 Speaker 02 Wait, did you think we were making it up?
6:11 Pablo Torre? I'm just saying, I, I, both of you guys are known.
6:14 Speaker 03 He does, apparently.
6:15 Pablo Torre? Both of you guys are, look, I consider you guys very reliable narrators about many things. Words often, uh, a bit squishy, a bit squishy when it comes to the vocabulary we, we unveil on the sporting class.
6:31 Speaker 02 You, I don't agree with that.
6:32 Speaker 03 You know what the feel of sunshine on your face in a cold day is called?
6:37 Pablo Torre? I know this because you said it to me, uh, in the first call we had, I believe, when I joined Metalark, which is to say, opplicity.
6:45 Speaker 03 Man, you have a good memory.
6:47 Pablo Torre? Upricity is a John Skipper word that I have since stolen. It's such a great word.
6:53 Speaker 02 It's an SAT word. When I started for the SATs, I had a box of words, not a tutor, I had a box of words that I had to learn. For SATs, I don't know if you took them way back when, whether it was college or not.
7:06 Speaker 03 I was having the same thought, which is, and by the way, I can guarantee you that nope, you'll give me hell about this, but it happens to be true. Nobody in my town had a tutor for the SAT.
7:20 Speaker 02 I believe it. It's a whole industry now, but I didn't have a tutor. I had a box.
7:25 Speaker 03 We had a box.
7:25 Speaker 02 Where you could get it was a box of vocabulary words. Did you not have, is this foreign to everybody but me?
7:31 Pablo Torre? Flashcards?
7:31 Speaker 02 Yes. Did you study vocabulary?
7:34 Pablo Torre? How was the word flashcard not one of the flashcards?
7:38 Speaker 02 Cause it was more like gregarious. And you had to learn what that was. Doesn't matter. I'm here today.
7:47 Pablo Torre? I'm just glad that this is a show where we know the importance of
7:53 Pablo Torre? lying prostrate as well as, in your age, the prostate.
8:01 Speaker 02 Take out the extra R.
8:04 Speaker 02 We should all be checked. It's an avoidable cancer.
8:08 Speaker 02 Like colon cancer. Everyone, they're lowering the age for colonoscopies. We don't need to get into this now, but it's gone from 50 to 45, it's going to 40.
8:16 Speaker 03 I do not appreciate the use of the word get into relative to a colonoscopy.
8:22 Speaker 02 I like colonoscopies because it's avoidable. It's cancer that you do not ever have to die from.
8:27 Pablo Torre? Let's just put that on a quote board. I like colonoscopies, David Sampson.
8:33 Speaker 02 I will absolutely cosign that quote. I do. I actually go for the double each time. I get the upper endoscopy at the same time.
8:43 Speaker 03 That's the throat. I'm pretty sure.
8:44 Speaker 02 I hope he knows that. So you get a scope both ways, same time.
8:49 Speaker 03 Well, you don't know if it's the same time you're out.
8:50 Speaker 02 I asked my doctor.
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12:42 Speaker 02 We're into the show, and we should probably get into some topics instead of, you know, your upper nether regions. It's not a nether.
12:51 Speaker 03 It used to be like the seventh planet. I'm not sure it is anymore, is it? Haven't they figured out that the planets are different than we thought they were?
12:57 Speaker 02 They totally changed it. There's now, I believe that either Venus or Neptune, one of them's not a planet anymore. Pluto. Pluto. I think it's outrageous. Who has the power to?
13:06 Speaker 03 Pluto's a dog.
13:08 Speaker 02 No, it, yes, but I learned, it's like changing Roy G. Biv. Who would have the ability or right to change that?
13:16 Speaker 03 Probably Mrs. Biv.
13:18 Speaker 02 Do you know what that is? You've never heard of Roy G. Biv?
13:20 Speaker 03 Of course, red, orange, yellow.
13:23 Pablo Torre? So you're exhaling, your phone is in your hand.
13:27 Speaker 02 There's a lot going on right now.
13:28 Pablo Torre? There's a lot going on.
13:28 Speaker 02 A lot going on in sports and business.
13:30 Pablo Torre? Should we start with the draft? Should we start with the thing that had happened over the weekend? The thing that John, when he was president of ESPN, was also overseeing in something close to this form, but not quite, John? Can you explain the draft as it is today? Which is to say, the thing that travels across the country was in Green Bay, Wisconsin, is now fully just part of the sports media industrial complex. What was it when you were in charge of it? How different was it?
14:00 Speaker 03 Well, for most of the years that I was at ESPN, it was in New York City at Radio City Music Hall. And I thought a very smart decision to take it out to fans elsewhere. To me, the draft is an astonishing phenomenon. It is not in and of itself particularly entertaining. And I know that the commissioner, Roger, himself, has said that, gee, maybe they need to speed this up a little bit. But it is one of those things that is tediously fascinating, right? You're sort of like, it's not interesting to watch, but it's hard to quit watching, particularly if you care about a team.
14:44 Speaker 03 Since I have for many years cared about the Jets, it's not interesting at all, because you can only be certain that they will once again mess it up.
14:54 Speaker 03 And...
14:55 Speaker 02 You're such a fan, so negative.
14:57 Speaker 03 Negative?
14:58 Speaker 02 I thought that you were going to say that you made up something that draws more people in a World Series game.
15:04 Pablo Torre? Thursday's opening round of the draft this year averaged a combined 13.6 million viewers across TV and digital platforms, the largest audience for the event shy of 2020.
15:15 Speaker 02 I don't know what that means.
15:15 Pablo Torre? Outside of 2020.
15:17 Speaker 02 Oh, because COVID, so everyone was just watching.
15:19 Pablo Torre? The captive audience actually being.
15:21 Speaker 02 That and Tiger, that Tiger show?
15:23 Pablo Torre? Tiger King.
15:24 Speaker 02 Tiger King, so we don't count. Is that how we're doing stats now? Are we doing all time X 2020?
15:31 Pablo Torre? Well, further context, uh, cause David is sticklering. Uh, viewership increased 11% from last year's opening round, which was 12.3 million across such platforms.
15:41 Speaker 02 Cause it can't be Green Bay, though. Several hundred thousand people went to Green Bay to watch it, which always makes me smile.
15:47 Speaker 03 I don't think it matters where it's at relative to the television rating, though. Being novel, the fact that it's in Green Bay and people are sort of interested in Green Bay may have helped a little bit. It didn't make much difference. It's really all a tribute. It's, the NFL Palooza is just a gathering of fans. The entertainment is pretty modest. I'm not criticizing it because it is a phenomenon, but, um, it, you know, it's, I don't quite know what the entertainment is. You're sitting there.
16:19 Speaker 02 The entertainment is all the media members who were giving you content hours and hours a day. Mel Kiper Jr. As an example, gets himself in the news because he's so crazy over Shador Sanders, but people are watching that. People are watching different networks, whether it's NFL Network, ESPN. They're waiting to hear what God Bless Football has to say, whatever the case is about the draft and the picks. That is unique.
16:43 Speaker 03 It, it is, and that is why people are there and why they care about it. So oddly enough, I was in the customs line in Brazil when somebody shouted out, "Do you know who the Dolphins took in the first round?" As though the Brazilians were right there worrying about who the Dolphins took. Although I, to be fair to him, I think he was yelling it in the line for non-nationals.
17:10 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say, this wasn't what.
17:12 Speaker 02 Was he yelling to you?
17:13 Pablo Torre? This was not. No, this was just. It was not immigration and customs enforcement testing your citizenship. That was somebody else saying.
17:19 Speaker 03 I think Trump is signing an executive order today that you may.
17:24 Pablo Torre? Yes, you must acknowledge that he, Donald Frum, is the reason why Shador Sanders got taken in the fifth round by the Cleveland Browns, which is more or less exactly what his press secretary said, by the way, earlier this week.
17:34 Speaker 02 I found his tweet to be interesting in criticizing NFL owners and how incompetent they were for not having drafted Shador Sanders because of what a good father he has and Deion Sanders and what a great pedigree he has.
17:47 Pablo Torre? Pedigree, inherited those, those, those good genes.
17:50 Speaker 02 Now, listen.
17:50 Pablo Torre? As clearly his children have.
17:52 Speaker 02 Deion is a Hall of Fame player, we'll grant you that, but I, I think that the, the craziness over Shador Sanders is only created because the media thought that he was such a high pick and the talent people who matter, and I talked about this on Nothing Personal, they didn't have him there and they're the ones who count.
18:11 Pablo Torre? Well, I, I want to point out from the sports business perspective, from the ratings perspective, right? So there's this jump on day one relative to last year. The second night of the NFL Draft, because Sanders, Shador Sanders was still on the board, surged by 40%, right? So you have, to John's tedious fascination point, you have a live event that is unpredictable, that is clearly unscripted, and you have these characters and these storylines that emerge that is accompanied by a clock that is perpetually ticking down. And so there are the ingredients, the basic fundamental ingredients of live sports in a sports adjacent program.
18:47 Speaker 02 Right. But not clearly unscripted. Someone in the media, Stephen A. Smith himself, said, hey, this could be collusion. So that would collusion by definition is scripted.
18:57 Pablo Torre? By the way, the accusations of scriptedness also a key part of live sports. The idea that this is rigged, right? So you have the meta-conversation around what this actually is, as well as the arguments over what should happen and what will in fact happen. In that way, look, I, I'm somebody, John, you know from previous episodes of The Sporting Class, you know that I am the guy who's going to point out that the draft as a concept can be, from a logical perspective, disrupted and turned into all-out free agency and that we can reconstitute the programming, but every year...
19:34 Pablo Torre? Your argument, as it often does, I must admit, that the way it is now is efficient in a way that should be respected, which is to say, look at this live event that is rating. It's hard to argue with.
19:49 Speaker 03 Its success is hard to argue with. I mean, I can personally not find it scintillating entertainment, but it does great. We loved it. We wanted it to go as long as possible. We
20:03 Pablo Torre? Wait, meaning, meaning.
20:04 Speaker 03 Wanted days and days of the draft.
20:06 Pablo Torre? Well, now it's right. Now it's a multi-day.
20:08 Speaker 02 It's a three dayer, and this is the exact type of event that Netflix would love to have. It is a live event. It's not a sports event. And in terms of people competing for the rights to the draft, Roger Goodell's done two things. One, he's gotten cities to bid. There's now like a Super Bowl lineup of cities who are bidding to host the draft, and it's mostly bad weather cities. Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Green Bay, where
20:33 Pablo Torre? Minneapolis.
20:33 Speaker 02 They're not going to get a Super Bowl, because they sent one up to Minnesota and the owners froze there, took this off, right?
20:40 Pablo Torre? Eagles Patriots 2018.
20:42 Speaker 02 So that's, is that not recent?
20:43 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I mean, but anyway.
20:45 Speaker 02 So I don't think, so now, I don't believe that those cities are really considered. Owners don't like going there for the Super Bowl?
20:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, but they're gonna go, because generally, those events are rewards for getting a new stadium built. Did that not happen in baseball?
21:00 Speaker 02 It's that, for All-Star games, they do that. But owners don't go to All-Star games. There's maybe one out of 30 owners who go to MLB All-Star games, but Super Bowls, generally, you get 32 for 32. You know, there are a few exceptions, obviously, but generally, you get that, and they don't want to go to a bad weather place. But Goodell found a way to get these cities to bid for it, and now he can get the networks to bid for the coverage of it, and you've created another day.
21:27 Speaker 03 Very smart business. Of course, I was at the Super Bowl in Dallas. No, uh, yeah, Dallas, Fort Worth, where it snowed, and you couldn't get around for three days.
21:36 Pablo Torre? Oh, God, Dallas in the snow.
21:38 Speaker 03 I was at the Super Bowl in Atlanta. So going to warm weather cities is not a guarantee that you're not gonna get But horrendous weather and I think they'll continue to go to cold weather cities. I do believe they kind of have to.
21:50 Pablo Torre? So to John's point, I was gonna bring this up in Minneapolis, right? So that stadium opened, the new building in Minnesota opened 2016, hosted the Super Bowl in 2018. And I actually want to just-
22:03 Speaker 03 Didn't SoFi get a Super Bowl not long ago?
22:05 Pablo Torre? Yes, yes, and I want to, and I want to establish though, because I think part of what is funny about how sports fans at home are viewing this stuff, right? There is a flattening, it's like, oh, it's at somewhere, but the behind the scenes jockeying for who gets to host. Now that the NFL Draft is one of these events that you distribute strategically, can you explain how important it is to be a host city? And what the available opportunities are to actually cash it?
22:32 Speaker 02 So when you're a host city of an event, you try to do it, let's talk about the NBA, who has a hard time finding cities to host All-Star Games. Because cities have to spend money, teams have to spend money, and their season ticket holders are getting screwed because the NBA takes over the inventory for an All-Star Game. Much like Major League Baseball, if you had a huge season ticket base, those season ticket holders would have a problem because your location is not guaranteed for an All-Star Game. In the NBA, it's a far bigger issue, smaller capacity, where each of the teams get one. So it's the opposite example for Adam Silver, where he struggles to get people to want to host an All-Star Game. For the draft, cities want to hold the draft because it's offseason.
23:16 Speaker 02 The building, when it's done inside a building, it's not being used. In Green Bay's case, think about what it does for them when they double the size of their tourism during a winter day where otherwise they wouldn't have anybody.
23:28 Speaker 03 But, well, that's more than double, right? I'm assuming they got, they got 600,000 people, right?
23:33 Speaker 02 I saw 250, but I don't know. An incremental.
23:36 Speaker 03 Oh, 600,000 people is the aggregate.
23:38 Speaker 02 I think.
23:39 Pablo Torre? Across the three days, over 600,000 people. Shattering, by the way, any available projection.
23:45 Speaker 02 I think that, but per day, I want to say I'm right, that it was around 250.
23:49 Pablo Torre? So just a bit of the context here. So, uh, Green Bay's total matched it with Nashville as the second highest in draft history behind only Detroit last year, which had 775,000 people across the three days, which is staggering.
24:05 Speaker 02 It's an impressive number.
24:07 Speaker 03 It's impressive that, and I don't mean this as any denigration because I have been to Green Bay and it is charming to park across the street in somebody's driveway.
24:16 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
24:16 Speaker 03 And walk to the game. But I don't think the other tourist attractions are that strong that you would go and you're going for the NFL draft. To me, this whole thing, and this is astonishing display of how popular and powerful the NFL is.
24:34 Pablo Torre? It's Coachella, it's football, Coachella, it's a music festival.
24:37 Speaker 02 So I was just in Palm Springs at the same time as Coachella. There's a whole lot going on in Palm Springs in LA that you could argue that you don't have to just go for that. I would say if you want to say Burning Man, where you'd only go but for that.
24:52 Pablo Torre? We should do a sporting class from Burning Man.
24:54 Speaker 02 It'd be hard to get service. But, uh, what, what interested me about Green Bay, I made a mistake on nothing personal. I was trying to figure out the hotel Roger Goodell would stay and I could.
25:05 Pablo Torre? What's the second topic?
25:07 Speaker 02 There's no possible place.
25:09 Pablo Torre? Oh, yeah.
25:09 Speaker 02 And I was told by fans of our show that even teams, when they play Green Bay, stay in Appleton.
25:16 Speaker 03 Cause there's so much more opportunity in Appleton for a good hotel room.
25:20 Speaker 02 It's, it's the best you can do. And I had not thought of any city with a professional sports team that doesn't have the facilities to host a professional sports event. It's gotta be the only one in the country.
25:34 Speaker 03 Well, you do have the interesting fact of the Hall of Fame's where people are headed to Canton, Ohio and, uh.
25:41 Speaker 02 Cooperstown.
25:42 Speaker 03 Cooperstown.
25:42 Speaker 02 Springfield?
25:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, not, not a lot of the, uh, five star accommodations either of those places.
25:48 Speaker 02 Cooperstown has, Cooperstown has the Otis Saga.
25:50 Speaker 03 Mm-hmm.
25:51 Speaker 02 Which is a five star. I've never been to Springfield, but I believe, is that not within driving distance of Boston? But I may have that wrong.
25:58 Speaker 03 It's, yeah, it's, yeah.
26:00 Speaker 02 I think you can do with Aaron back. And then hockey has Toronto, which of course has five star everywhere.
26:04 Pablo Torre? It's also just like the, I, I, as somebody who has been to Cleveland for the NBA finals, it's like, guess what? It's the Ritz Carlton and then a big drop off. And it's just sort of like, but, so, so the question of like.
26:16 Speaker 03 We live in rarefied air.
26:18 Pablo Torre? I was gonna say, this is, this is the very relatable rich guys OnlyFans content that our fans, uh, have been demanding. But it really is like, what's it like to host one of these events and bring the music festival? It's like, where do the VIPs stay?
26:30 Speaker 02 It's a major thing at Coachella. They're not driving in, sitting in traffic on the 10. I promise you that, they're copping in. And so when you host, and when you put, we did a bid to host the All-Star game in 17. It's about a 10 inch bid. It's a binder this big. It's a 10 inch binder of how you're gonna host. One of the sections is how you're gonna deal with the commissioner, any owners who wanna come, like, and I, and I promise you that that's real. What do you do with John Skipper? When John Skipper comes, that's part of the bid.
27:04 Pablo Torre? You switch out his chair ahead of time, hope he doesn't notice.
27:06 Speaker 03 I just take a sleeping bag. Little country boy with a sleeping bag.
27:11 Speaker 02 So what we have to do to make the bid is we have to meet.
27:14 Pablo Torre? Get a hammock strung out between two trees.
27:16 Speaker 02 If, if only. It's a fight over suites with you people. We have to go to the hotel bureau. And in order to bid for these events, whether it's the draft or an All-Star game or anything, you have to secure certain suites with pictures. And then they get assigned in advance to people. It's a whole thing.
27:35 Pablo Torre? Right. Wait, so hold on.
27:36 Speaker 02 I don't know if that's interesting.
27:36 Speaker 03 It was never a thing with me because the Disney policy did not allow us to stay in suites.
27:43 Pablo Torre? Really? Wait, I wanna, I wanna understand.
27:47 Speaker 03 I just stayed in a suite at the World, at.
27:49 Speaker 02 I can't.
27:49 Speaker 03 The World Series in Cleveland.
27:52 Pablo Torre? What is, what is your reaction to that?
27:53 Speaker 02 Are you suggesting you stayed in a king room?
27:56 Speaker 03 I don't remember where I stayed, but I don't think I stayed in the suite.
27:59 Speaker 02 Okay. The president of ESPN does not stay in king rooms and it's totally fine. We argue this with players. It's in their contracts. Certain players get suite. It's called suite on the road. Go look at Juan Soto's contract.
28:09 Speaker 03 I would have thought suite on the road was a much more interesting thing.
28:13 Speaker 02 It's not. S U I T E. You lascivious, prying bastard.
28:17 Pablo Torre? Sweet on the road also sounds like an opening act at Coachella. It's like, wow.
28:21 Speaker 03 So.
28:21 Pablo Torre? We are sweet on the road.
28:22 Speaker 02 Real things on how you operate.
28:24 Pablo Torre? But, okay, so David's giant 10-inch binder, actually hilarious to me, as he is telling you on YouTube.
28:33 Speaker 03 I couldn't figure out if it was thickness.
28:35 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I couldn't either.
28:36 Speaker 03 Width or height.
28:37 Speaker 02 It's way longer than 10 inches. It's a full binder. It's the size of a loose leaf piece of paper, which is 12 inches, I believe. But I'm talking about thickness, like a book. When people say, oh, is that a long book? You say, what's the thickness of the book?
28:50 Pablo Torre? Why are there so many pages?
28:53 Speaker 02 Because there's so many things that go into hosting an event. It's not just, oh, let's do the draft and you wake up.
28:59 Pablo Torre? So is the 10 inches, is that David Samson or is that standard length?
29:04 Speaker 02 Oh, this is standard. This is, every city has to do it.
29:08 Speaker 03 Commissioner.
29:08 Speaker 02 Imagine it's the commissioner's office requires it.
29:11 Speaker 03 Administration of the league.
29:12 Speaker 02 It's hotels, it's security, it's transportation. What does an owner do when he lands at the FBO? How does the owner, which is a fixed base operation for a private plane, how do you get from there?
29:23 Pablo Torre? Everybody definitely knows.
29:24 Speaker 02 To the hotel. Where are the police escorts? What is gonna happen in terms of, what's the exact drive time from the hotel where the players are staying to get to the ballpark at these times of day? You're looking at me like I've got this, like I'm crazy, but this is totally real.
29:40 Pablo Torre? I'm legitimately curious. What is the hardest part about hosting an event?
29:45 Speaker 02 Dealing with the personalities. Satisfying, yeah, satisfying what the VIPs want in terms of hotel rooms, in terms of car services, in terms of getting back and forth to the ballpark. That was always the biggest challenge.
30:01 Speaker 02 Security is a very big issue as well. How you are going to keep everyone safe. And this is both pre and post 9/11. But all of these, there's a reason that you takes 10 inches. Because it's not pictures, like it's, it's prose. And we would have committees set up to fill out different parts of a bid. To get the World Baseball Classic or an All-Star game. You're laughing.
30:26 Speaker 03 I'm, I'm laughing. Oh, I'll tell you later. I'm laughing only at having to. We're laughing at the same thing. Having to prevent myself from making any 10 inch jokes.
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34:05 Pablo Torre? What you just said, a series of words, is remarkable, the discipline that John and I had in not acknowledging how absurd it was.
34:13 Speaker 02 I was trying not to be sexual. I was trying to be informative, but it's your audience.
34:17 Speaker 03 Andy used the very good word lascivious.
34:19 Pablo Torre? That's right.
34:20 Speaker 03 I love that word. It kind of sounds, it's animo poetic. It sounds like what it is.
34:25 Pablo Torre? That's a real flashcard word.
34:26 Speaker 02 Anyhow, so Green Bay did a great job of hosting, but to the extent that they can, but it's not going back to Green Bay anytime soon.
34:32 Pablo Torre? But the suite of, so to speak, the suite of options here, right? There is, in terms of what's up for bid, right? So the teams, when it comes to the World Series, you earned that, right? You win on the field to get that, right?
34:46 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
34:46 Pablo Torre? So when it comes to like these bonus events that you get to hand out, so to speak, in the commissioner's office, we're talking about drafts and All-Star games, right? Is there anything else that I'm missing?
34:58 Speaker 02 In baseball, World Baseball Classic?
35:01 Pablo Torre? Oh.
35:01 Speaker 02 It's any jewel event not earned on the field, is how we would describe it. Because you're right, World Series LCS, that's a jewel event that is earned on the field, but all the other stuff is off the field.
35:13 Speaker 03 But of course, the real problem with a single destination for the NBA and the MLB is they play four out of seven. So not only is it uncertain how many games there will be, but you can't expect fans to show up at...
35:30 Speaker 02 Right.
35:31 Speaker 03 In, at, in wherever for, and stay for two weeks to see whether they're going to four, five, six, or seven games.
35:40 Speaker 02 Well.
35:40 Speaker 03 Right? Isn't that the biggest distinction between the Super Bowl and the Final Four?
35:45 Speaker 02 I told my audience that I never agree with Scott Boris, but Scott Boris wants a neutral site World Series. And it's a very interesting thought.
35:52 Pablo Torre? Okay, so give the case for.
35:54 Speaker 02 This case for a neutral site World Series is that people can plan to be at the World Series, whether they're fans of the team or not. It becomes an event, and it's in a city where you want to travel to, whether it's Vegas, or Miami, or Los Angeles. And the teams, therefore, don't need to worry about only home field advantage through the LCS, where it would remain in the home stadiums, where you get the advantage. But the World Series becomes a seven-game party, and the way you switch who has home field is just two bats last.
36:25 Pablo Torre? Right.
36:25 Speaker 02 So you can do it in the same stadium.
36:27 Pablo Torre? The NFL, to the point of Scott Boris, they actually... Hand out the Super Bowl. They don't give it to the team that quote unquote earns it.
36:35 Speaker 02 And this is what it would be. It's making major league baseball closer to what the NFL does. The broadcasters would be happier because the broadcasters apparently.
36:43 Speaker 03 They could set up.
36:43 Speaker 02 They can set up. They can get ready. When, when a pro player hosted a Super Bowl.
36:48 Pablo Torre? In Miami.
36:49 Speaker 02 They did several times in Miami. The amount of time that the broadcaster is onsite setting up. It's not days or weeks. It's months. Like they're cabling stuff. They're doing stuff that they can't do for baseball because they don't have that sort of notice.
37:03 Pablo Torre? Right, right. The draft though, when it comes to the, now I want to bring this back to the NFL and jealousy of the NFL, right? So baseball has a draft. How many rounds were the baseball draft?
37:15 Speaker 02 There used to be until everyone.
37:17 Pablo Torre? One zillion?
37:17 Speaker 02 No, so the draft used to be until everybody passed. It was like a poker game. The draft would keep going until all 30 teams said they were done drafting.
37:26 Speaker 03 I don't remember that.
37:27 Speaker 02 Yes, true story. Then it went down.
37:30 Pablo Torre? Wait, so how, wait, hold on. Now I'm going to Google, what's the longest MLB draft?
37:32 Speaker 02 I'm going to bet you there was 44 rounds once. Uh, because that's when you draft people's sons and people's, we'd, we'd draft the owner's nephew. I mean, you just draft.
37:42 Speaker 03 So it actually is in this case irrelevant players.
37:46 Speaker 02 It is players who just get to put on their resume. They were drafted. Uh, and we drafted Griffin Conine out of high school. He wasn't going to be, he went to college, of course, but he got to say he was drafted by the same team that his dad played for. Now it's 10 rounds, I believe, is what the current MLB draft is.
38:01 Pablo Torre? 20 rounds.
38:01 Speaker 02 It's 20.
38:02 Speaker 03 Still 20?
38:03 Speaker 02 It's too many. You don't need, you don't get 20 prospects. It's so many. Mike Piazza, there are people who never would have been drafted in today's draft.
38:11 Pablo Torre? What do you think the number was in 1990, the record?
38:15 Speaker 02 I'm going to take the over 44. I was going to say maybe 58.
38:18 Pablo Torre? 101.
38:20 Speaker 02 So that's it. You get to keep going. I'm telling you, that's how it was.
38:24 Pablo Torre? I'm going to do an episode that's just about that draft. Holy, holy sheesh.
38:27 Speaker 02 It's quite something.
38:28 Speaker 03 Isn't that 3,000 people?
38:30 Speaker 02 No, because not everyone drafts each round.
38:33 Speaker 03 So you don't have to draft?
38:34 Speaker 02 Correct. And it's not that if you, so here's the funny rule that I don't know, Pablo. If you pass one round, are you out forever? Or can you pass in round 69 and enter back in for round 70? I don't know the answer to that.
38:47 Pablo Torre? Uh, so the number one overall pick. In 1990, Chipper Jones.
38:52 Speaker 02 That worked out well.
38:53 Pablo Torre? Now, allow me to scroll to the bottom to find who the last pick is. Because there were 1,487 players distributed to 26 teams.
39:01 Speaker 02 You will never have heard of the final pick in the draft, I promise.
39:05 Pablo Torre? MLB Draft. All right, we'll move on and I'll find this.
39:07 Speaker 02 He never will have spent a day in the big leagues, my guess is, nor in AAA.
39:11 Pablo Torre? On the baseballcube.com, which is the most exhaustive site I have found for like this information, the number of rounds available to click on ends at 99. So like, the HTML code does not even allow me to click into 101.
39:25 Speaker 03 So it must be a triple-digit thing. It just means that when they did this, they entered it with only two columns for the number of rounds.
39:33 Speaker 02 It's like Y2K. They thought everything would blow up with 99 going to 00.
39:37 Pablo Torre? Major League Baseball and every website that cares about Major League Baseball never anticipated that someone would want to find out who the last pick in 1990 would ever be.
39:46 Speaker 03 Who was the last pick in the 99th round?
39:49 Pablo Torre? Oh, here we go. So this is interesting, to your point. In 1990, the 99th round, overall pick, 1,489. It's just one guy. It's the only person taken in that round. And it was Jeffrey Caldwell, taken by the Houston Astros.
40:09 Speaker 03 He played, didn't he?
40:10 Speaker 02 I don't know that name.
40:12 Speaker 03 Okay.
40:13 Speaker 02 If you Google him.
40:15 Pablo Torre? The Astros also, it's important to note, were the only team to pick in rounds 75 and on. So they were just claiming territory while everybody else went to bed.
40:26 Speaker 02 So those are guys who their signing bonus is like 100 bucks? And you get them in your system? And you don't have to do it. It's the way of doing minor league free agency to fill out your system. You can just do it through the draft.
40:39 Pablo Torre? Jeffrey Caldwell, for the record here.
40:42 Speaker 02 Did he ever play AAA? I'll bet a dollar he did not.
40:44 Pablo Torre? He has zero statistics of any kind listed. But he is apparently 54 years old today. And if you think I'm not going to call this guy up, you do not know how I do my show.
40:57 Speaker 02 How are you gonna find Jeffrey Caldwell?
41:01 Pablo Torre? David, I'm going to, John, I'm going to a town called Bogalusa in Louisiana. Bogalusa, Louisiana.
41:08 Speaker 03 Where would you expect Bogalusa to be, other than Louisiana? I mean, does it sound like Bo- Bogalusa, Pennsylvania? No. Bogalusa?
41:19 Speaker 02 You know, the draft is based on talent and people who get paid. What bothered me about this weekend is that the number of people who had opinions, like on how stupid, including Trump and Kuiper and everybody else, how bad NFL evaluators are.
41:32 Speaker 03 You're surprised Trump had a stupid position?
41:34 Speaker 02 I'm surprised that anybody would have a position, I guess it's good television, but anyone would have a position that NFL talent evaluators aren't good. They're the best in the world, that's why they have those jobs.
41:46 Pablo Torre? Well, I mean, if, this story, the Shador Sanders thing, which again, created a lot of buzz that was monetizable for the networks in question. It feels like a yes and kind of a story, though. Which is to say, yes, it is true that the NFL is really bad at predicting which players, at the most important position, that they spend all this money scouting, that can change the fortunes of a billion dollar asset. They're really bad at predicting which of those guys will be good. So Mel Kuiper is right about that, and clearly, the way that Deion handled the draft process, and Shador handled it, they tried to shrink the market such that they could handpick their, their team, and it worked too well.
42:27 Pablo Torre? Everybody was like, actually, the market has shrunk so dramatically that nobody wants to take you. Which is a function of leverage being talent, overestimating then the talent.
42:39 Speaker 02 The fact is that he is a Cleveland Brown, I thought Cleveland was on the list of teams he didn't want to play for. I may have that wrong as well, Koka, but I thought Coach Prime-
42:48 Pablo Torre? It's hard, it's hard to tell. I mean, like, Shador Sanders loved playing as the Browns in Madden. Like, what does that mean? I don't know, but this is the Kremlinology of the NFL draft process, right?
42:57 Speaker 03 Look, while I think the quarterback position has become so important, that teams feel the need to overreach to try to take a player who might turn out to be Tom Brady. Right? So, for the most-
43:11 Speaker 02 We're all trying that, every year.
43:12 Speaker 03 Pardon?
43:12 Speaker 02 We're all trying that.
43:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I bet if you looked overall at the NFL draft, there is a very high degree of correlation between the players taken in the first few rounds who actually end up playing.
43:27 Speaker 02 Oh, there's no question that the NFL draft first rounders make the team more often and faster than MLB. That is true because there's no development. NFL, you're drafted right onto the big league team.
43:40 Pablo Torre? Or also, but the similarity would be your cost control to the point where you're incentivized to actually get this guy in the field. So that you use him while he's cheapest.
43:47 Speaker 03 But the NFL talent managers did not believe that he was a first, second, third round choice. This is a big story because the most prominent draft expert, only ESPN, Mel Kiper, who has generally been pretty accurate.
44:08 Pablo Torre? He's, I mean, Mel Kiper is not a joke. He's a deeply respected person with all the institutional memory, with more institutional memory than anybody else in this business.
44:16 Speaker 03 And this is, I think, the greatest disparity ever between a player. He expected to be taken very high. He expects him to be a high impact player who will make a big difference.
44:31 Speaker 03 Whether you believe it or not, there were pretty, some pretty good reporting done. I did read a thing in The Athletic. They claimed they contacted 10 of the general managers and said, where is he on your board? And they all said, he's not on our board particularly. It is, you have a funny place too, where more NFL teams know who their starter is next year than has generally been the case. There was sort of, and this is also kind of a weak quarterback draft.
44:58 Pablo Torre? No question.
44:58 Speaker 03 So I think a lot of people just passed. Uh, they probably didn't want the distraction of Deion Sanders. Uh, cause among other things, first time your quarterback doesn't perform well. You think Deion is going to be on SportsCenter talking about, what are they going to play my son? You really want that if you don't believe, if you do believe he will be impactful. I do not believe the collusion. Uh, theory. Uh, if you do believe he can make your team and start next year and your team will be better. They would take him. They are interested in getting better. Everybody, I don't think there's anybody who's interested in teaching Deion Sanders a lesson, though there are many people interested in teaching Deion Sanders a lesson, maybe, but I don't think anybody
45:43 Speaker 03 is going to pass a quarterback who is the fifth best overall player if there was a consensus that he is the fifth best player, or even the fifth.
45:52 Speaker 02 You don't even need a consensus. You just need one of 32 teams to think that.
45:55 Speaker 03 Right.
45:56 Speaker 02 So that's, so here's what all the pundits are getting wrong. It's not just that he slipped down to the fifth round. It's that 32 teams felt that there were four players they'd rather have each before Shador Sanders, and the Browns were one team who thought, all right, he's the fifth guy that we'd like.
46:15 Speaker 03 And you know, of course, their track record drafting quarterbacks is outstanding.
46:18 Pablo Torre? Well, this is, this is the, this is the constant.
46:20 Speaker 02 Not even not drafting.
46:21 Pablo Torre? But this is the.
46:21 Speaker 02 They're waiting for.
46:22 Pablo Torre? No, all, all kinds of acquisition, the Browns have been a phenomenal case study, which is why it's especially funny that the president is taking credit for the Browns doing this. Because to your point, John, I think the, the, the through line in all of this is that you can believe yes and, you can believe that every NFL general manager is acting with total self-interest and zero, whatever, ethical integrity, and still think that they passed on Deion Sanders's son because of self-interest. Right? So the whole idea is not that th- there wasn't some, uh, motive that was, uh, you know, whatever, defensible.
47:04 Pablo Torre? The idea is that Shador Sanders just wasn't worth the headache that they presumed. And so when the Browns take him, it's just telling that the Browns are the same team that gave everything to sign Deshaun Watson, who had dozens of sexual misconduct lawsuits outstanding against him. Right? So the whole idea is that team.
47:25 Speaker 02 Very different. Shador Sanders having a bad dad versus being a.
47:30 Pablo Torre? But this is, this is, I think, what is so important for people to realize, though, is that when it comes to what qualifies as a headache, right? You are doing two things. Number one, categorizing, what does this mean on a day-to-day level when it comes to who my boss is?
47:45 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
47:45 Pablo Torre? And they were afraid that Deion Sanders was gonna appoint himself their boss, which is, I think, the nightmare that John was alluding to as well. And then second, it's,
47:55 Pablo Torre? I mean, it's the obvious one. Right? It's, is.
47:58 Speaker 02 This guy actually worth the trouble? And they don't think that Shador Sanders is anywhere close to the prospect or player. Well, you've heard what Andrew Berry said, though. Andrew Berry, the GM of Cleveland, came out after he was picked and said, hey, listen, at fifth round money, it's a good deal. This is a good player. We had him valued higher. We didn't take him. We value a bunch of guys in a draft. We have a whole draft board with hundreds of guys on it in baseball, literally hundreds of guys. And we have next to them who their agent is and whether or not we want to deal with that agent, what their demands are, if any, and then what we would pay for that player. So we have a big board. In football, you assume they do the same thing, sort of who, where do we view this?
48:42 Speaker 02 And if the Browns viewed Sanders as a third round pick or a second round pick, but they knew that no one else was going to take him, or they were willing to take the risk that no one else would take him, and when he's on the board and available at five, they grab him. If they thought he would have been available at six, my guess is they would have done that as well, but they thought there was a chance that someone would jump in at five to grab him. This is the comedy of the Browns, right? So this offseason, for those not clocking the Browns acquisitions, they've acquired four quarterbacks. I think they drafted one in the third round. Yeah, they drafted Dylan Gabriel. And then they have Flacco. Flacco, Penny Pickett, Deshaun Watson. Who am I forgetting? It seems like five.
49:24 Speaker 02 Watson, Flacco, Pickett, Gabriel, Sanders. One, two, three, four, five quarterbacks on one team. Clearly, they're not going to make it. Our friend, Mr. Lebatard, is of the opinion and his show that there's an opportunity where Sanders could be the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns, and this is a great pick for them in theory. Sure. I'm of the opinion he won't even make the team.
50:04 Pablo Torre? This is why the draft is good television.
50:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:07 Pablo Torre? Is that everything is on the table and you don't actually get proven wrong until months later. And so, everybody is plausibly at the table arguing. And in the case of Deion Sanders and Shador Sanders, it's like, guess what? We just birthed. We birthed a superstar, not in terms of talent, but certainly in terms of attention drawing ability.
50:30 Speaker 02 So, it's a Caitlin Clark situation where next year's draft will not have the type of attention unless they can find another first-round pick, who's supposed a first-round pick to drop down. This was a perfect storm, what happened this weekend with the NFL draft. Sanders is a personality, and then he didn't get drafted where people thought. And it just created, think about next year where you've got Arch Manning about to be drafted, the biggest quarterback family ever, maybe?
50:56 Pablo Torre? A family that, by the way, had also previously...
50:59 Speaker 02 Can we say ever?
50:59 Pablo Torre? Yeah, I would say so. Also previously had said, "You don't want to take our son with Eli." They did a version of this that went over far better because Eli was a better prospect, and maybe they handled it in a way diplomatically. That was quite different from the public theater of Deion retiring his son's jersey after going like 13 and 11 in the Big 12, and also not having the grade that Eli got. But when I was talking to NFL executives this weekend, like, what happened here? It's not collusion, it's a test of power, in which every NFL team was like, until the fifth round, this guy is not good enough to demand the treatment, the power, that he thinks he deserves.
51:40 Speaker 03 I think that's well put.
51:41 Speaker 02 I do. We did a bunch of things on this. I think John Elway was the first guy. Koka told me that, and I remember this barely...
51:49 Pablo Torre? Out of Stanford.
51:50 Speaker 02 Elway did not want to play for a certain team, and so would not allow himself to be drafted or sign with that team.
51:55 Pablo Torre? Told the Colts in December '82.
51:57 Speaker 02 So, this is a long time ago, I apologize. But then it sort of sat dormant. Eli Manning did the same thing.
52:03 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
52:03 Speaker 02 And Sanders tried to do the same thing and it did not work. And there could be people who have all sorts of thoughts, but the reality is Elway and Manning were good professional players.
52:15 Pablo Torre? Yeah, they're number one overall picks.
52:17 Speaker 02 Potentially Hall of Famers? Is Manning in the Hall of Fame?
52:20 Pablo Torre? Well, certainly Elway and Manning. Eli get voted in?
52:24 Speaker 02 Did he get voted in, Koka? I think he did not.
52:27 Pablo Torre? He did not. He failed to secure enough votes during his first year of eligibility, but the presumption is.
52:32 Speaker 02 He will be in the Hall of Fame.
52:33 Pablo Torre? He has a, he has a real puncher's shot.
52:36 Speaker 02 He's got rings. If Sanders ends up having a good career, it's a success for the Browns. They got a fifth round quarterback who's a producing big leaguer.
52:45 Pablo Torre? But just imagine though, like if you're, so to go back to the full, the full circle part of this, right? So not only do you have Deion Sanders demanding that you play Shador Sanders, you also have literally Donald Trump. Like enjoy, distraction feels like an insufficient term, actually.
53:01 Speaker 02 It is amazing.
53:02 Pablo Torre? For what that story is going to be for the next year.
53:04 Speaker 03 If you'd like to understand Donald Trump's acumen at running an NFL team, uh, he did run a.
53:10 Pablo Torre? USFL team.
53:11 Speaker 03 USFL team. There's a very fun, uh, film called Small Potatoes, directed by Mike Tolan about that tenure. Uh, his proposition is that what went on with the generals, remember he's assigned Herschel Walker.
53:29 Pablo Torre? Of course.
53:30 Speaker 03 To some astonishing contract. The other owners did not want to see those kinds of salaries. They weren't looking to sort of outspend the NFL the way that the ABA was with the NBA to get big stars. President Trump had the theory that that was wrong. He may have been right. The USFL did end up failing. Um, but he did end up with the best player in the league, Herschel Walker.
53:57 Pablo Torre? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we did an episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out in which we examined the alternate universe in which Donald Trump buys the Buffalo Bills, by the way. So he goes to the USFL because he is denied access to, we talk all the time on the show, about the most exclusive clubs, NFL ownership, you know, of course, being the thing that never accepted him. And so, instead of owning the Bills, he becomes what we now know today.
54:20 Speaker 02 It reminds me a little of Mark Zuckerberg, and only through, you know him, but only through the lens of the social network, where all of what he started with Face Smash, or whatever it was called, was about him not feeling popular and not getting into the clubs that mattered in his mind. And the irony of what Trump did is he felt that he couldn't get into an exclusive club. So what do you do? It's an old story. When you don't get accepted to a club, as Jewish people, we learn this in Hebrew school, when we're not allowed, when it's an only goy club, what we're taught is buy the club.
54:52 Pablo Torre? Only goys is a very different subscription.
54:54 Speaker 02 Correct. But there are clubs like that, where no Jews are allowed. By the way, Augusta used to be that for a very long time. And what we're taught is, okay, we're gonna buy it. And once we buy it and own it, then we can do whatever we want. Trump did something similar. When he couldn't become an owner, he just decided, all right, I'll run the country. It's not a terrible plan in terms of ego satiation.
55:18 Pablo Torre? And I dare say that the country is behaving a lot like the general graph that was the economic future of the USFL.
55:28 Speaker 02 It is a current issue, that I'm certainly not defending it, other than to tell you that it is very hard to judge it right now. We will be around to judge it in a matter of years, to see.
55:42 Pablo Torre? You're talking about Sanders or Trump?
55:46 Speaker 02 I'm talking about Trump. We cannot evaluate, so forget all the noise of the incompetence. But the concept of reducing trade deficit, the concept of trying to figure out our own country's deficit, and deciding whether or not it's being done correctly or incorrectly. I know that people like you like to judge it as it's happening, but it's hard to do that. You have to take a sort of longer view approach.
56:10 Pablo Torre? I appreciate the rational perspective.
56:13 Speaker 02 I'm sorry to be rational.
56:15 Pablo Torre? I would just remind you that I think it's pretty clear how the Cleveland Browns...
56:22 Pablo Torre? Are going to do, even though it's not technically
56:26 Speaker 03 It would be
56:26 Pablo Torre? True yet.
56:27 Speaker 02 It is not clear. What's their record gonna be? There's an over under four and a half, I believe, is the Right now, they're saying that they're gonna win four and a half games, I think Coca told me. Was their over under? I may, again.
56:39 Speaker 03 I think you could, you would be pretty close every year for the last, what, thirty, forty years? If you had their over under at four and a half?
56:48 Speaker 02 I mean, that's not, Bernie Cozart would like a word with you. So it's not total, is he more than forty years old now? Did Bernie Cozart last play?
56:55 Pablo Torre? You're asking me if Bernie?
56:57 Speaker 02 No, he's more than forty years, but he played within the last forty.
57:00 Pablo Torre? I'm turning forty this year. You're telling me, you're asking me if Bernie Cozart and I are roughly the same age?
57:05 Speaker 02 No, no. I know Bernie Cozart's older than you.
57:07 Pablo Torre? Okay.
57:08 Speaker 02 I'm saying, when did Bernie Cozart last play? And I'm gonna guess in the nineties.
57:11 Pablo Torre? Ninety-six.
57:12 Speaker 02 So that is not that, he last played thirty years ago. It's not, they were good.
57:17 Speaker 03 Didn't I say thirty years?
57:19 Speaker 02 Thought you said forty.
57:20 Speaker 03 I might have.
57:21 Speaker 02 I'm not gonna argue with you.
57:21 Pablo Torre? I just feel like
57:22 Speaker 02 You're a, you're a, whatever. You, you view the world.
57:25 Speaker 03 I'm in a high chair.
57:26 Speaker 02 You just view the world that things are gonna happen the way you expect them to happen Because you don't agree with how things are happening now, so your view is it won't work.
57:34 Pablo Torre? I hope, David, that you're right about the US economy. I don't have any evidence that you are.
57:43 Speaker 02 Recession's happen.
57:46 Speaker 03 I don't care, I, I, I'll be very atypical. I care less about the economy than that they're sending four and seven-year-old citizens back To their supposed home countries.
57:57 Speaker 02 We can certainly talk about it.
57:58 Speaker 03 I can judge that right now.
58:00 Pablo Torre? I, I feel like we can judge everything as it relates to what is the discernible strategy On a level of principle and simple logic. I just like that, a show that is more sophisticated than any other when it comes to sports and business. We end on a note of, quote unquote, recessions happen. Haunting.
58:22 Speaker 02 It's, sometimes things are easily explainable, but well misunderstood.
58:28 Pablo Torre? Oh, God.
58:29 Speaker 03 Slicable would be a slightly better choice of word there.
58:32 Pablo Torre? Yeah.
58:32 Speaker 02 I was just trying to not use an SAT word again.
58:35 Pablo Torre? Uh, John Skipper, David Samson, thank you for your Verbosity. And please stop making the ten-inch gesture with your hands.
58:54 Pablo Torre? This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.
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