Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out The Goalie Who Disappeared About this episode Jerce Reyes Barrios was a pro soccer player in Venezuela — an underdog living a sports-movie dream. Then he became an immigrant to Trump's America: The administration accused Jerce of being a gang member. ICE flew him to a terrorist prison in El Salvador. And his family hasn't spoken to him since. All of this... for a tattoo about his favorite football club. Paola Ramos reports on how Jerce escaped one dictator, only to be trapped by another, thanks to the very collapse of American democracy itself.
• Read Paola Ramos' book, "Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America"
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/741645/defectors-by-paola-ramos/
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Pablo Torre? This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles, side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move?
0:42 Pablo Torre? QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.
1:09 Speaker 01 Onnit's Black Friday sale doesn't start until later this month, but listeners get in early. If you're new to Onnit, go to Onnit.com and use code PABLO for 30% off your first order, starting today. If you've never tried Onnit, start with AlphaBrain. It's their daily nootropic built to support focus, memory, and mental clarity on days when you need to be locked in, whether that's powering through a tough workout or staying focused during back-to-back meetings. Get early access and save 30% off your first order at Onnit.com. That's O-N-N-I-T dot com. And use code PABLO. Some exclusions apply.
1:54 Pablo Torre? This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools. It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger
2:39 Pablo Torre? organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
3:04 Speaker 02 Help Gersey, who was a great trainer for us, guide him wherever he is.
3:13 Pablo Torre? Right after this ad.
3:16 Pablo Torre? You're listening to DraftKings Network.
3:32 Pablo Torre? Your fandom for Real Madrid is?
3:35 Speaker 02 It's real in the sense that I grew up in Madrid in the 90s when it's sort of exploding. I played basketball, like basketball was my thing, but there was no way to not love Real Madrid as a kid during those years. Now, you had like everyone sort of was pulled into the game.
3:52 Pablo Torre? They incentivized young kids growing up around Spain to be a frontrunner.
3:55 Speaker 02 You felt it in the streets. You felt it everywhere. It was amazing.
3:59 Pablo Torre? Watching this team, this club, excuse me, come to power. For people who don't know anything about Real Madrid, don't give a about soccer, what was that like?
4:09 Speaker 02 That was like to me, like 1998, I believe is when it happens. I think I'm like 10 years old. It's one of the first times that my mom lets me stay up super late. And we're all watching the Real Madrid team parading through the streets of Madrid, ending up in this huge fountain called Cibeles. They take off their shirts and they're just like drinking champagne.
4:38 Speaker 02 There's this like turning point, no? In who Real Madrid is.
4:42 Pablo Torre? Yes, they become globally popular. They're globally a brand that lots of people know and care deeply about, who didn't grow up in Madrid like you.
4:53 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
4:53 Pablo Torre? When it comes to your favorite player, though, the soccer player that you were most entranced by on this team, who would that be?
5:02 Speaker 02 Well, I remember Iker Casillas. And I'll tell you, even I'm as gay as you can get, but Iker Casillas. Everyone loved Iker Casillas, even my old, little, young gay self.
5:12 Pablo Torre? I am as straight as it gets, and I also love.
5:15 Speaker 02 So we're gonna love each other.
5:17 Pablo Torre? Iker Casillas. When I play on FIFA, I'm like, this goalie is the one I want.
5:29 Pablo Torre? Very handsome.
5:31 Speaker 02 Yeah, I believed it too.
5:35 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:36 Pablo Torre? When I thought about who do I need to help us understand and report this story? I was turning to you before I knew that you had any affiliation with Real Madrid as a concept. And now it feels almost inevitable that I would have had you work on something for weeks. And thank you so much for being here and for doing that.
5:54 Speaker 02 No, of course.
5:55 Pablo Torre? Because it's one of the biggest stories going on, certainly in America, but also Latin America and also the world. You can make it as grandiose as you want, but it begins with something that's quite specific and quite small, technically.
6:12 Speaker 02 We're literally talking about a tattoo. This is a story about the tattoo from hell.
6:21 Speaker 02 We're talking about 2018, the small town in Venezuela. And this tattoo was inked by this guy called Victor. And during that time, one of his best friends, Jerzy Reyes Barrios, walks in, and he asks for a tattoo of the Real Madrid, the favorite soccer team of Jerzy Barrios.
6:43 Speaker 02 Jercy is someone that ends up becoming a goalie, and ends up becoming a professional soccer player in Venezuela. But his very favorite soccer player is also Iker Casillas from Real Madrid. I mean, that was his dream and his idol growing up. He has a bunch of other tattoos. He has musical notes, a map of Venezuela, a goalkeeper, a hand with the pinky and the index fingers going up.
7:08 Pablo Torre? I'm imagining like the rock and roll thing, right? A pinky and index finger up, like that's...
7:12 Speaker 02 Exactly, that's exactly that. And he also has tattoos of his two daughters.
7:24 Speaker 02 That's who Jercy is.
7:26 Pablo Torre? And so he walks in and he wants a new one.
7:30 Pablo Torre? And his specific desire for this new tattoo is gonna be what?
7:36 Speaker 02 It's all based on his love for Real Madrid. And he asked for something very simple, and that is a ball with a crown sitting on top.
7:46 Speaker 02 If you zoom into this tattoo, it's the ball, a crown on top, a rosary.
7:53 Pablo Torre? But the Real Madrid part, I guess to do the little bit of Spanish translation I could do, Real means royal?
8:00 Speaker 02 That's right.
8:00 Pablo Torre? And in this specific case, Real Madrid, more than any other club, has claims to being the royal franchise of Spain. This is sort of its own heritage, is that it does have a crown as certainly the most distinguishing part of its own logo.
8:16 Speaker 02 When Jercy walks into that tattoo parlor, he's specifically thinking about this team. And that's what the tattoo artist will tell you, you know? That when he walks in and he gets this inked in his skin, it is all to sort of, you know, romanticize Real Madrid.
8:32 Pablo Torre? He might have been thinking at this moment about Iker Casillas
8:36 Speaker 02 That's right.
8:37 Pablo Torre? as a goalie himself.
8:38 Speaker 02 Literally, he's probably thinking about that. But you know what he was not thinking about in that moment? That is the fact that this tattoo would years later turn him into this alleged criminal gang member. And that that tattoo would essentially make him disappear.
9:11 Pablo Torre? This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, like groceries, or merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. I'm pretty sure this won't shock anyone out there, but buying a car is just a hard process. You have to figure out what you want from thousands of options, then you have to find somewhere that's offering a good deal, then you get hit with unexpected fees. But let's just break it down,
9:56 Pablo Torre? and think about how you describe your ideal car to a friend. You know, something like, good gas mileage, four-wheel drive, reliable, under 30 grand. Luckily, CarGurus makes it that easy. Just describe it to CarGurus the same way. With Guru, you search in your own words, and you get listings, real listings, that match. No endless filters, just the car that fits your life. CarGurus also helps you shop with more transparent pricing, allowing you to see when dealer fees are included, so you can compare listings with greater confidence. And with more than 4 million listings, CarGurus has the biggest selection of cars. So it's easier than ever to find the right car, and the right deal. It is no wonder CarGurus is the number one
10:41 Pablo Torre? most visited car shopping site, according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. So buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus at cargurus.com. Go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot com. cargurus.com.
11:02 Pablo Torre? Gifts mean more when they have the power to give more. They can inspire more discovery, give more confidence and unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 laptop. With a beautiful design and cutting-edge performance, it helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet, with touchscreen, a backlit keyboard, and long-lasting battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds, and Intel Core processors, it's fast, reliable, and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities with XPS. While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards,
11:46 Pablo Torre? fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Plus, you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss. Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.
12:12 Speaker 03 Wouldn't it be great if life's little upgrades didn't feel like a splurge? Like getting the aisle seat with extra legroom for a one-hour flight, ordering extra guac with zero hesitation, or paying for assembly on that swing set because you'd rather spend your Saturday doing literally anything else? It's called living filthy comfortable. And whatever filthy comfortable looks like to you, Schwab can help you find it with investing, trading, education, and human help, all in one place. Learn more at schwab.com. Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
12:48 Pablo Torre? Okay, so whether or not you're a sports fan, much less a fan of Real Madrid, I'm gonna guess you've heard about the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
12:57 Speaker 04 For anyone just joining us, we're following breaking developments in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland resident who officials admit was expelled by Miss
13:06 Speaker 05 And then they looked and on his knuckles, he had MS-13.
13:10 Speaker 06 There's a dispute over that.
13:11 Speaker 05 Well, wait a minute, wait a minute. He had MS-13 on his knuckles tattoo.
13:16 Speaker 06 He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way, but let's move on.
13:18 Speaker 05 Hundreds of illegal criminal gang members from Venezuela getting dropped off at a mega prison in El Salvador. They get free haircuts, that's a good thing. President Trump deported them under the Alien Enemies Act. The Alien Enemies Act of 1798, signed into law by President John Adams, allows non-citizens to be deported without due process during times of war. Are you planning to do more deportation? I can tell you this, these were bad people. That was a bad group of, as I say, hombres.
13:47 Pablo Torre? All of which is alarming, to say the least, to the point that even Republican loyalists to Trump, like Senator John Kennedy, for instance, the other day on Meet the Press, have called the ordeal, quote, "A screw-up."
14:01 Speaker 04 A screw-up. Mr. Garcia was not supposed to be sent to El Salvador, he was sent to El Salvador.
14:08 Pablo Torre? Now, the case of Mr. Garcia and the men sent to El Salvador with him is held up in the courts right now, including the Supreme Court, as we wait to see, I suppose, if the rule of law under the Trump administration is gonna hold. But meanwhile, we have been promised something. We have been promised that this is not a pattern.
14:30 Speaker 04 I don't see any pattern here. I mean, you know, someday things may fly, but I doubt it.
14:37 Pablo Torre? But there is a pattern emerging, and you may have heard about this part, too, these other horrifying ordeals for these alleged gang members.
14:48 Speaker 05 Among hundreds of alleged gang members deported this past week to El Salvador was a Venezuelan migrant with a job and no criminal record. A gay makeup artist with no criminal record in this country or in his home country, Venezuela.
15:02 Speaker 04 The individuals who appear on the list obtained by CBS News do not appear to have criminal records in the US or Venezuela.
15:11 Pablo Torre? And in fact, this administration this week has decided to display the faces of these alleged terrorists on the lawn of the White House itself, just in time, as it happens, for Saquon Barkley and the rest of the Philadelphia Eagles to visit and celebrate their big Super Bowl win.
15:30 Pablo Torre? All of which helps explain why the person sitting in our studio today is the Emmy-winning journalist Paula Ramos, most recently the author of a book called Defectors: The Rise of the Latino Far Right and What It Means for America. And Paula is here with me because she has been reporting on immigration for a decade now. And in fact, she just returned this week from the jungles of the Darien Gap between Latin America and South America. And she has also reported for Vice on the exact intersection of where our story is going to take us today. Tattoos, abductions, and now sports.
16:09 Pablo Torre? This is a sports story in which we have a disappearing soccer player, a mystery around this tattoo from hell, as you called it. And so I want to further push the sports part of it. I just want a scouting report on who Jerse is, where he came from, him, the person.
16:28 Speaker 02 So everyone you talk to, when they mention the name Jerse, is that he was sweet? He's this very sweet, kind, young boy. He grows up in northern Venezuela in a town called Machiquis, literally known for cows. It's rural. Everyone says that he loved to draw.
16:50 Speaker 02 He likes to dance salsa.
16:53 Speaker 02 I talked to his sister, Georgelie Reyes.
17:00 Speaker 02 Who's still living in that town, by the way.
17:07 Speaker 02 Even talking to her was a little bit hard, just because of the internet connection.
17:14 Speaker 02 And the power was out a lot of times.
17:20 Speaker 02 Okay.
17:21 Speaker 04 Pero, pero no te veo.
17:22 Speaker 02 But she still really, really wanted to talk about her brother.
17:25 Speaker 04 Jersey es una persona especial.
17:28 Speaker 02 When she talks about her brother, she remembers him loving baseball as a very young kid.
17:32 Speaker 04 Mi mamá, ella me dice que lo llevaba chiquitico a jugar béisbol.
17:37 Speaker 02 But, the interesting thing is that Jersey's dad is a portero.
17:41 Speaker 04 Es arquero.
17:42 Speaker 02 No, he's a goalie.
17:44 Speaker 04 Entonces Jersey empezó a ver a papi.
17:47 Speaker 02 So Jersey kind of grows up watching his dad playing soccer. And then he starts to sort of love the game and love the sport.
17:54 Speaker 04 Yo quiero estar en una arquería así como estás tú. Y mi papá...
17:57 Speaker 02 Jersey's father starts training his son.
18:01 Speaker 04 Jersey empezó a entrenar.
18:02 Speaker 02 Slowly Jersey kind of forgets about baseball.
18:05 Speaker 04 Lo mío no es el béisbol.
18:07 Speaker 02 He's completely focused on soccer. And this love for Real Madrid starts, this obsession with the game starts.
18:14 Speaker 04 Se dedicó mucho al fútbol.
18:17 Speaker 02 One of the things that, that his sister told me repeatedly, you know, was...
18:21 Speaker 04 Para todo era el fútbol.
18:23 Speaker 02 Fútbol, fútbol, fútbol, you know, I mean, literally, when his sister talks about Jersey, it's just fútbol. That's literally all that she talks about because that's the image that comes to her mind.
18:36 Speaker 02 The thing about Jersey, and that's what his sister described, is that he kept going, you know, like he kept fighting for this dream. He starts training with one of his dad's former teammates. It's this coach named Yogerse José Biloria.
18:50 Speaker 06 Mi nombre es Yogerse Biloria.
18:52 Speaker 02 This coach is still in the very same town where Jersey grew up.
18:57 Pablo Torre? So describe what we're seeing here, this, this place that he grew up.
19:01 Speaker 02 What was, I think, beautiful about this conversation that I had with the coach is that he was just like, kind of, he couldn't, he couldn't wait to, to, to get out of that room.
19:09 Speaker 06 Si me permite.
19:11 Speaker 02 And show me the field where he watched Jercy grow up.
19:16 Speaker 06 I'll cross the street and can I show you where we work?
19:21 Speaker 02 So there's this moment where he literally like takes me out. He's like, "Come with me."
19:25 Speaker 06 I'm going to cross the street.
19:27 Speaker 02 And he walks down the street and he starts, you know, he flips his camera the other way. And he literally shows me in this very humble, it feels in the middle of nowhere. And you can see there's literally like not much around there.
19:40 Speaker 06 This is the same field where Jercy has been always.
19:43 Speaker 02 This gives him so much pride. This gives him so much dignity. And this is the field where this coach watches Jercy grow up.
19:52 Speaker 06 Where Jercy started his dreams.
19:56 Pablo Torre? So when he's climbing the ladder, what does his ascent look like through soccer to the pros?
20:02 Speaker 02 He joins these like travel teams, you know, he so he gets to to travel across Venezuela, in different regions, different cities. He then becomes a starting keeper on a champion under 16 national team. He actually made it to to a tournament in Barcelona. So I'm just like picturing Jercy.
20:18 Pablo Torre? Oh, it's the dream.
20:19 Speaker 02 Exactly, like this kid that like is obsessed with Real Madrid. And he eventually makes it pro, you know, in the Venezuelan pro football league.
20:31 Pablo Torre? I'm imagining a goalkeeper, the pressure that you have to not fuck this up.
20:38 Speaker 02 That's what the the coach kept talking about. The last tournament.
20:42 Speaker 06 The last tournament that he played in 2014 with us.
20:46 Speaker 02 You know, this like specific moment in the specific era where Jercy leads his team to the final of the third division.
20:52 Speaker 06 The third division at regional level.
20:56 Pablo Torre? The third division is a division you want to escape if you have bigger dreams for yourself. And on the line in this game that you guys were talking about is promotion to the second division, which is a huge deal.
21:09 Speaker 06 They scored a penalty in the last game.
21:12 Speaker 02 From what he describes, it comes down to penalty kicks. All this tension building up. Whether they make it or not depends on these penalty kicks. Then what the coach says is that Jercy's team scores, so all eyes are on him, right? Everyone is...
21:30 Pablo Torre? It's a lonely thing.
21:31 Speaker 02 Yeah. Will he stop the next goal or not?
21:36 Speaker 02 He just needs to do this one save.
21:41 Speaker 02 Crowd goes wild.
21:43 Speaker 06 Él fue el héroe del partido porque ya era en el último minuto y...
21:47 Speaker 02 That he becomes a hero, he becomes this idol, el ídolo. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why, to this day, he's so beloved and remembered.
21:55 Speaker 06 Y lo admiran, lo admiran, lo respetan y lo admiran mucho por...
21:57 Speaker 02 Right, because he proves he can take this, you know, small, humble team to the next level. And that's exactly what he does.
22:10 Pablo Torre? And when I look at the record that Jerse assembled as this goalkeeper, it doesn't stop in the second division. He makes it to the first division. And at this point, what happens to him?
22:22 Speaker 02 Life gets in the middle. I mean, I think the reality of Venezuela in that time is that many people, like Jerse, have to leave. So Jerse is a soccer player, but he also suddenly becomes an immigrant. He goes to Colombia to find better economic opportunities to support his two daughters, to support his father, who needed a very expensive treatment for a glaucoma that he had to deal with. So in 2016, Jerse is 26 years old. He goes to Bogota, to Colombia. He finds money and he keeps playing in Colombia because that love for soccer is always there. He kind of keeps in touch with this soccer club that sees him growing up.
22:59 Speaker 06 Cuando venía a vacaciones, él se te daba, ayudaba a los chicos acá.
23:02 Speaker 02 He returns to that beautiful field that the coach shows me on his phone. And so not only does Jerse come back, but he starts coaching. Some of the very same kids that grew up in the same town that Jerse does.
23:16 Speaker 06 Cuando venía para acá, venía y trabajaba con los chicos.
23:21 Speaker 02 The coach is saying that every time Jerse would come back from Colombia, he would visit this soccer club and he would train the kids. And he would train some of the goalies, he would train the youth league.
23:34 Speaker 06 No tenía egoísmo en cuanto a eso, ni tampoco...
23:36 Speaker 02 He had no ego, he sort of never forgot where he came from.
23:40 Pablo Torre? When you reference that he is from a complicated Venezuela.
23:46 Pablo Torre? Explain what that means in terms of the decision that is made to go and help his family by leaving. How uncommon is a decision like that in the context we're describing?
23:56 Speaker 02 I'll put it this way, the coach at one point tells me that when he looks at his team, he sees, in his words, una crisis de fútbol.
24:07 Speaker 02 That means that at one point, he sees that most of his soccer players are gone.
24:14 Speaker 02 That he doesn't have enough soccer players to literally play games. And the reason why is because many of them have had to flee Venezuela, not to leave Venezuela, and the same reasons why Dersi did, to get better opportunities and to find things elsewhere that they just couldn't find in Venezuela, to immigrate, to get out of the country.
24:31 Speaker 05 And we're very much involved with the Venezuela crisis. It's a horrible thing, a horrible situation. It's been brewing for many years.
24:39 Speaker 02 A country that for many years at this point has been in the midst of a political and economic crisis. Follow breaking news out of Venezuela, where the political and humanitarian crisis has reached a boiling point.
25:04 Pablo Torre? So this football crisis, in the context of the larger crisis then of Venezuela, for people who are not familiar with the character of Maduro, how would you introduce him?
25:18 Speaker 02 Nicolas Maduro is someone that many people in Venezuela and around the world would call a dictator.
25:25 Speaker 04 President of Venezuela, Maduro, the now dictator. Dictator Maduro.
25:31 Speaker 02 Nicolas Maduro is a dictator with no legitimate claim to power. Because he's someone that continues the legacy of Hugo Chávez. Chávez has raised Nicolas Maduro to the seat of power. But he's particularly known for his political repression. Por las buenas, somos muy buenos.
25:50 Speaker 02 Por las malas, somos guerreros tenibles. The idea of having civil liberties and rights and freedom of press does not exist in Venezuela. On top of that, and I think this is when it becomes very real for people like Dersi and these soccer players.
26:06 Speaker 05 You may remember that Venezuela is a country in chaos right now. The economy has crashed. People can't afford food and medicine, telling Venezuelans that humanitarian aid is part of a conspiracy to overthrow his government, all of which has left Venezuelans feeling so hopeless that...
26:20 Speaker 02 For the last seven-plus years, there's been over 7 million people that have left Venezuela, that have migrated. And so I'll put it this way, many of the images that you may remember from those thousands of asylum seekers... Thousands of asylum seekers are still there, waiting and hoping in makeshift camps and shelters. Many of them were Venezuelans escaping the Nicolas Maduro regime.
26:46 Pablo Torre? We're talking about a guy in Maduro who, by the way, isn't a friend of Donald Trump.
26:52 Speaker 02 Trump casts himself as an anti-Maduro, anti-socialist, anti-communist, American president. And so Nicolas Maduro is one of Donald Trump's biggest enemies. This is where Dersi's fleeing from, you know? He's fleeing from Maduro.
27:08 Pablo Torre? And so to fit Hesse into this political matrix in which there's Trump and Maduro on opposite sides, where does he fit when it comes to how explicit his beliefs are about what's happening?
27:23 Speaker 02 So Dersi did something that thousands of Venezuelans did.
27:29 Speaker 02 Dersi decides to take the streets.
27:35 Speaker 02 And it was really brave, you know? And that is that in February 2024 and in March 2024, he decides to protest against the Nicolas Maduro regime. And I say that's very brave because we're talking about a regime known for having political prisoners. So in the second demonstration that Dersi participates in, things get really dark. From what we've been told, after one of these protests, he's taken to this clandestine building.
28:05 Pablo Torre? And what does it look like behind the scenes when that happens?
28:10 Speaker 02 Allegedly, his treatment involved electric shocks and suffocation.
28:16 Speaker 02 So we've been told that Jersey was threatened by the Nicolas Maduro regime. And that if he were ever to march again, that he would be, quote, "disappeared", and that he would spend the rest of his life in prison. And I've been told that Jersey was really worried that this could actually happen, because it has been happening.
28:34 Pablo Torre? And so just to state as clearly as we can as well, what is Jersey's criminal record?
28:42 Speaker 02 None. None whatsoever. He has no criminal record in Venezuela.
28:47 Pablo Torre? So if he also has a clean sheet when it comes to his legal standing, I'm trying to imagine what the case would be against him. How does he live his life? How out here is he when it comes to being reckless, even in a non-criminal way?
29:01 Speaker 02 I mean, the first thing that his family would say and that his sister says is that he's a good guy, right? This is, we're talking about someone that doesn't drink, and he doesn't smoke. He literally has a record of having countless jobs on the field, playing soccer. And his life was and is football. But like I said, there is no criminal record of Jersey in Venezuela. The only crime that he committed in the eyes of the government was protesting.
29:33 Pablo Torre? And so now I'm returning to that image of people trying to get the [bleep] out. And I'm imagining the decision that Jersey is facing, given that the man in power and his administration are seemingly, allegedly, not just electrocuting him, suffocating him, but now threatening him to never do anything like this again. And so what is the choice he has in front of him?
29:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, so a little bit after March 2024, he kind of is faced with a decision that many migrants are faced with. Do you leave or do you stay? In his case, he's facing, of course, sort of this political repression in Venezuela. He's facing the reality of his parents, his dad, that needs this glaucoma treatment. And he comes to the conclusion that he has to leave Venezuela and head towards the United States.
30:19 Speaker 02 Dersey goes through the Darien jungle. Now, remember, the Darien jungle is over 10 miles of one of the most dangerous
30:28 Speaker 02 places that I've been to in my life.
30:31 Speaker 02 He makes his way towards Mexico.
30:36 Speaker 02 Bueno gente, ya estamos aquí en San Pedro, tapa la tepe. Mexico, also from what I've been told by his sister, becomes a very, very dangerous place for Dersey. There's thousands of asylum seekers like him that have to live in Limbo. He then goes through the legal system to apply for asylum and to enter the United States. What does he do? He opens his CBP One application. Download the CBP One app from the App Store or Google Play.
31:04 Pablo Torre? The app is free.
31:07 Pablo Torre? Right, so he's downloaded the official app. This is how it worked, and this was under the Biden administration, by the way. This is just last year, the spring of last year.
31:16 Speaker 02 It takes him approximately five months from when he leaves Venezuela until he enters the United States through the CBP One application.
31:25 Pablo Torre? And so he gets not asylum, but an appointment to make his case that he is deserving of the refuge that the United States is offering.
31:35 Speaker 02 Exactly, so here comes September 1st, 2024. Dersey presents himself at the border. He's permitted to enter legally immediately, but then he's placed inside an ICE detention center in San Diego.
31:48 Pablo Torre? The waiting room is an ICE detention facility in San Diego.
31:51 Speaker 02 That's right. Dersey, at this point, is waiting in Limbo for months. He's waiting for his scheduled immigration hearing, and he's there for so long that by January 16th, 2025, he actually spends his birthday inside this detention center. He turns 36 years old inside.
32:06 Pablo Torre? And that is a useful date for us because now, tracking quite neatly alongside January of this year, is the changeover in power from Joe Biden to Donald Trump.
32:18 Speaker 05 I will declare a national emergency at our southern border.
32:23 Speaker 02 And so as sort of Trump is rising, Dersey's inside this detention center, waiting for this alleged immigration hearing to take place. Fast forward to March 14th, 2025. Dersey's sister told us that she got a call from her brother to wish her a happy birthday.
32:42 Speaker 02 Well, the first thing she talks about is that she notices something different in Jersey's voice. That she notices that he's shaky and nervous and that he's not being himself. And then Jersey asks about one of his daughters.
33:03 Pablo Torre? Right, his two kids.
33:04 Speaker 02 He's able to talk to one of them. He says, "What are you eating?" And the daughter responds, "I'm eating cheese daddy." "I love you," Jersey says back to his daughter. "I love you too." And then he says, "I don't have much time to talk." And that's the very last time that Jersey is able to talk to his family.
33:26 Pablo Torre? Life in 2026 is tough. We all have our struggles and we could all use some help. But trying to figure out how to get the right mental health treatment for you can feel overwhelming. Talkiiatry helps you move from "I know I need help" to actually having a psychiatrist who listens and a clear personalized treatment plan. Talkiiatry is 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations,
34:06 Pablo Torre? diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more. With Talkiiatry, you can meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, builds a personalized treatment plan, and supports you over time with consistent, evidence-based care. And all 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers, so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out-of-network costs. Head to talkiatry.com/ptfo to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/ptfo to get matched in minutes.
34:50 Pablo Torre? Talkiiatry.com/ptfo. Did you know over 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated and 90% don't get enough potassium, which is a key electrolyte responsible for energy, muscle function, and clear thinking? Well, that's why you can be drinking water all day and still feel tired or foggy or just off. And while most hydration packs really load up on the sugar, Instant Hydration contains zero sugar. There's no glucose spike and no sugar crash. And that is really important to me because it not only gives me electrolytes without loading me up with sugar, but it also helps me avoid that late afternoon crash. You know, that time of day when your eyes start drooping as you reply to yet another email and you need something to get you back on track.
35:35 Pablo Torre? Just mix a packet of Instant Hydration with water and I am feeling ready to push through to the end of the day. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/ptfo and use my promo code PTFO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com/ptfo, promo code PTFO. Cozy makes furniture for the part of life that nobody warns you about. Getting the couch into the room, making the room feel like you, then actually living on it, spills and all. With Cozy, your home can grow with you by adapting to new spaces, new styles, and every era of your life. It's modular furniture, so you can actively adjust your furniture to fit any space.
36:19 Pablo Torre? It's all built around making the entire home comfortable and easy so that your stuff works with your life, not around it. The covers are washable and interchangeable, so a refresh is only one wash away and the spill goes from panic to shrug. And it all ships to your door in easy-to-move boxes. Plus, Cozy's free one-on-one design consultations make the whole home vision a lot less intimidating. Cozy has everything you need to make your home feel like it has a plan because Cozy makes every part of the process easy. So, visit Cozy today. That's C-O-Z-E-Y dot com and make yourself at home.
37:01 Pablo Torre? So Paula, this is a story I just need to remind everybody that started and is conceivably about gangs. And we now know that Jerse has lost contact with his family. They haven't spoken to him. We are closer now to the present tense. And I just want to know, where the [bleep] are the gangs in this story that you've reported for us? Because they have been noticeably absent so far.
37:29 Speaker 02 For a reason, right? So the gangs are part of this story in a very important way. Now, the reason why Jerse disappears is because the Trump administration claims that that Real Madrid tattoo that you and I talked about at the beginning, that tattoo is what allegedly makes him a part of El Tren de Aragua.
37:52 Speaker 05 This morning, we're learning new details about the Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua.
37:57 Speaker 03 Is arguably the most ruthless, violent, menacing gang now designated as terrorists. So these are now terrorists.
38:05 Pablo Torre? This accusation that he's a member of this gang, according to a declaration that I'm going to quote from here, is based on two things. First, he has a tattoo on his arm of a crown sitting atop a soccer ball with a rosary and the word Dios, which we began the show with. And the Department of Homeland Security alleges that this is proof of gang membership. This tattoo from hell.
38:28 Speaker 02 Literally, this young man that has no criminal records in either Venezuela or the United States, that has never even set foot outside a detention center
38:38 Pablo Torre? Yes.
38:38 Speaker 02 in the United States, this man is now being accused of being part of El Tren de Aragua because of this Real Madrid tattoo.
38:47 Pablo Torre? He's not the only person in the world of professional soccer who has this tattoo? Or something quite like it? No less than Neymar himself has a tattoo on his back right calf. The third most popular athlete in the world, probably behind Ronaldo and Messi. You know, depending on how you put LeBron in there. I put Neymar on the medal stand. He has this, Paula. Look, there it is. Right? Soccer ball with crown on top. Paulo Dybala, an Argentinian football superstar. Same tattoo. Here's a photo of that. Same place. Crown on top of ball. And we were trying on our staff, Paula, to figure out like, what is the appropriate reference point? And I think we settled on, this is kind of like getting a flaming basketball.
39:32 Pablo Torre? Right. It's just a thing you get because you're hot [BLEEP].
39:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, again, like, why do people get tattoos? Because they have passions.
39:44 Pablo Torre? And so at this point, I just need to jump in to emphasize something broader about not simply this particular sports-themed tattoo, but also tattoos in general as this marker, according to the federal government, for membership in Tren de Aragua, which is that this entire concept is bull [BLEEP]. A leading criminology professor at the Central University of Venezuela recently told The New Yorker that this administration's tattoo strategy is, quote, "The first time I've ever encountered any reference to the significance of tattoos as it regards Tren de Aragua", which is a gang, by the way, that this professor has spent his career studying.
40:26 Pablo Torre? He then called the whole thing, quote, "absurd and naive." Meanwhile, the author of the definitive book on Tren de Aragua happens to be a journalist named Rona Riesquez, and she spent her career investigating criminal groups across Venezuela. What you should know, according to her, is, quote, "Venezuela..."
40:47 Speaker 05 and gangs are not identified by tattoos.
40:51 Pablo Torre? And yet, this is precisely, precisely how ICE, US Customs and Immigration Enforcement, has been actively justifying the disappearance of people without criminal records, again, like Jerce Reyes Barrios. And in fact, on the Texas state government's website, to also broaden the scope out here, we found a literal PowerPoint presentation with a slide entitled "Tren de Aragua, - Tattoos and Other Identifiers", end quote. And right there, in the top right corner, which you can see right now on YouTube, is the Jumpman logo. Yes, the Jumpman logo for, you know, Air Jordan, with the number 23 beneath it.
41:35 Pablo Torre? Which, as I trust you can now understand, feels both irresponsible and actually insane.
41:44 Speaker 02 If these soccer players and basketball players and sort of famous celebrities were not in the public eye, and if they were just like random black and brown men walking down the streets, potentially, from what we know of the legacy of ICE and previous presidential administrations, they would be racially profiled because of their tattoos.
42:05 Pablo Torre? Yes.
42:06 Speaker 02 And very likely could end up like Jersey. And I've seen this, I've reported on this in the past, racially profiling people because of these mundane tattoos with no evidence whatsoever to showcase that they are actually dangerous criminals.
42:20 Pablo Torre? That part, that all it takes is one tattoo that is cross-checked against some PowerPoint somewhere in which also on the list are roses, guns. God forbid, by the way, you're a train enthusiast. We got a locomotive smack dab in the middle here. It just makes me think of... The strategic incompetence. If you're using this as sufficient evidence for declaring that someone like our goalie in this story is actually part of a terrorist organization.
42:58 Speaker 02 It's lazy, it's cruel, it's racist.
43:02 Pablo Torre? Just this quote, right? Like, to go back to this legal document. Quote, DHS reviewed Jersey's social media posts and found a photo of Mr. Reyes Barrios making a hand gesture that they allege is proof of gang membership. And for those who are not watching on YouTube and are missing the visuals on this, can you describe the gesture he's making?
43:21 Speaker 02 It's literally a rock and roll sign, a sign that has often been used in sign language to say, "I love you."
43:29 Pablo Torre? And on Instagram, by the way, this guy's making all sorts. It's like peace signs, thumbs up, rock and roll gestures, all this stuff. You see all the kids on his youth soccer team there.
43:37 Speaker 02 He's just a goofy guy. So I talked to his lawyer, actually, to Jersey's lawyer, who spent a lot of time sort of dissecting this tattoo image and dissecting this hand gesture. And the hand gesture, the hand gesture is this. One of her responses to the government was literally just like, "Check your emojis, right, on your phone." Check your emojis on your phone, but it didn't matter to DHS.
44:00 Pablo Torre? I have been wondering, who is the person, who is actually fighting for him against the US government?
44:06 Speaker 02 I'm Lynette Tobin, an immigration attorney and solo practitioner in San Diego. And she's not just protecting Jersey at this point, but she's literally taking on the government. I am one individual basically fighting against the government.
44:22 Speaker 02 This is what she told me about the very last time she talked to Jersey. I got a call and learned from him that he was being transferred. He wasn't sure where. He just said he was being transferred. And then the next day, he called me, and he was in Texas this time instead of San Diego. Couldn't tell me what prison he was at? He didn't know, simply Texas. His family was getting increasingly anxious.
44:51 Speaker 02 They had heard about these Venezuelans being sent to El Salvador. Of course, they didn't know for sure that he was there, but they knew he had tattoos and they knew he was Venezuelan. And they're used to hearing from him, if not daily, almost daily.
45:14 Speaker 02 And asked me to please find out if he was still in the U.S. And I communicate with him through an app. And I checked that app and it showed that he was still at the prison. So I told them, no, he's still here. He's, he's okay. But he wasn't. They simply never, DHS never removed him from the app. He's, he's still on my app as someone who is present in the U.S. at this prison in Texas. Tonight, the Trump administration sharing this dramatic video from the president of El Salvador showing alleged Venezuelan gang members arriving to his country overnight, marching into prison. Hersi's aunt sees a picture on the news of these men
45:58 Speaker 02 who are on their knees with their heads down and their heads being forcibly shaved. The administration deporting hundreds of Venezuelans from the U.S. that they accuse of being members of Tren de Aragua, despite a federal judge yesterday ordering the administration to temporarily cease deportations under the Alien Enemies Act. They see someone who looks like Hersi. They get very worried.
46:26 Speaker 02 So finally, I, I reached someone at ICE who confirms that he has been removed from the country.
46:37 Speaker 02 I give that news to the family and they, you know, they sobbed. There has been a lot of crime.
46:50 Pablo Torre? It's the footage that has been posted on the social media account of the president of El Salvador. Bukele, who has, for those not familiar with his work, has called himself the world's coolest dictator.
47:03 Speaker 02 He loves this, right? And so I think at this point, like, these are exactly the images that he wants people to see.
47:09 Pablo Torre? We're talking about a maximum-security prison designed to hold and essentially banish terrorists from civilization.
47:19 Speaker 02 It is the most maximum-security prison in El Salvador. It can hold up to 40,000 prisoners. The prisoners are held in large cells of at least 80 people in one cell. There are no windows. They never go outside. They aren't even taken out of the cell to eat. There are two open toilets that all of these men share. There is no privacy. They're constantly on camera, and the lights are never turned off. They have nothing. They are simply in this cell 23 and 1/2 hours a day, and they do nothing. They just sit there.
48:01 Speaker 02 We do know that people at this prison are tortured. They're beaten. They aren't given medical attention. It's a very frightening circumstance.
48:11 Pablo Torre? And somewhere in this photo of these people being lined up in what is a de facto concentration camp, somewhere in there is the goalie we've been talking about.
48:22 Speaker 02 Now, what do you call that? Now, what do you call this image? What do you call this transfer of Venezuelans from the United States to El Salvador? Do you call that deportation? Do you call that kidnapped? I'm not going to call it a deportation because he does not have an order of deportation.
48:41 Speaker 02 They took these people, did not tell them where they were being taken, put them on a plane forcibly, and sent them to a third country. These men have no connection with El Salvador. They have disappeared them.
48:56 Pablo Torre? has refused to say where they're being held, even though we know where they're being held. They have no contact with their attorneys, no contact with their families. They can't receive letters. They can't receive their calls. Not even the International Red Cross has been able to see these people. They have been disappeared by our government. It's the place that we saw also because Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem went and took a photo op trip to pose in front of some of those bars and some of those men, and then posted it, of course, on social media.
49:32 Speaker 02 Here at CICAT today and visiting this facility. If you come to our country illegally, this is one of the consequences you could face. First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted. But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use if you commit crimes against the American people. She says, if you come to our country illegally. Number one, Dersi didn't come illegally. No, she used the legal process. Number two, and they're making this assumption without any evidence that everyone that is standing behind her is part of El Trindadagua or MS-13. And so this is for sure a show of strength from the Trump administration. But the biggest weakness is that in doing this, they have completely dismantled
50:17 Speaker 02 any democratic norm, any sign of due process.
50:20 Pablo Torre? Yes.
50:21 Speaker 02 That makes us who we're supposed to be, which is a democracy that's gone.
50:24 Pablo Torre? Right. The idea that if you suspect that this former professional soccer player, this father of two, this man, is in fact gang affiliated, terrorist associated, that you should go through the legal system and prove it, as opposed to disappearing him, that's what the fight is right now broadly speaking. And in specific, that is the hell that this tattoo has brought chair state to.
50:55 Speaker 02 Who would have known that this guy that grew up loving soccer, that became a soccer player, that wanted this Real Madrid tattoo, that left his country, inspired by what the United States is supposed to mean.
51:12 Pablo Torre? Yes.
51:12 Speaker 02 Inspired by what Venezuela doesn't have.
51:17 Speaker 02 Which is law and order, due process, freedoms, rights, basic liberties.
51:23 Pablo Torre? Protesting the dictator that is an enemy of the man in charge of our country who sent him to El Salvador to be under the watch of another dictator.
51:34 Speaker 02 Who would have known that that person would have ended up in El Salvador?
51:53 Pablo Torre? So I should say, Paula, that we here at Palpatori Finds Out did get a quote from the Department of Homeland Security. They provided us with the following statement. "Jerce Reyes Barrios was not only in the United States illegally, but he has tattoos that are consistent with those indicating TDA, Tren de Ragua, gang membership. His own social media indicates he is a member of the vicious TDA gang. That all said, DH Intelligence assessments go beyond a single tattoo, and we are confident in our findings." End quote. And so naturally, we had multiple detailed follow-up questions about those assessments, about whether they were even talking about assessments of Jersey in particular. We had questions about why the government is so confident about any of that, about any specifics that they might be able to offer us.
52:38 Pablo Torre? And eventually, Tricia McLaughlin, the Assistant Secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, did get back to us in an email, and she said this, quote, "No, I am not referring to Barrios specifically. Our intelligence goes beyond social media and tattoos. Full stop. We aren't going to hand over our national security information and put law enforcement in harm's way every time a terrorist and gang member says they aren't one. That would be insane."
53:07 Speaker 02 Unfortunately, there's no surprise here. And I think watching this country turn into the Venezuela, almost, that Jerce escaped is alarming.
53:21 Pablo Torre? And so at this point, it is just worth me reiterating, perhaps the defining aspect of the United States itself, which is that in a constitutional democracy like ours, people like Jerce Reyes Barrios are in fact allowed to say that they are not a terrorist and not a gang member, and to in fact prove that in a court of law. Which is why currently, a federal judge in Washington is threatening to hold the Trump administration in contempt for preventing so many of these men from Venezuela who got swept away by our government on those planes in the middle of the night from making their case as to why they should not be kicked out.
54:06 Pablo Torre? And meanwhile, back in San Diego, today, actually, exactly six months after that first appointment that Jersey had, the one that got, you know, spat out by the government's free iPhone app so that he could legally and transparently make his original case to be let into this country? Our country? Jersey's lawyer is finally expecting something. She's expecting to hear from Jersey's personal immigration judge with a decision on whether to dismiss his claim to asylum, his claim to legal status officially, or to keep Jersey's case open so that he can continue his request when and if he returns to the United States
54:50 Pablo Torre? or even some other country. But no matter the official law of the land, no matter the due process here, the Trump administration is expected to push back. They're expected to brush aside that due process and the humanity involved in favor of dictatorship. And so, yes, it is certainly worth sounding some alarm. And it is also quite appropriate to be cynical about America today. But in Venezuela, something else is happening. Back on the pitch.
55:33 Pablo Torre? And so as much as this is a story that isn't otherwise being told here in America, what's it like back home where Jersey is from?
55:42 Speaker 02 I mean, I think there's two stories. There's a story of pain that his family is feeling. His sister and his parents are waiting anxiously every single day to just know if their brother and their son is alive. Jersey's daughters are waiting. Jersey's partner is living in Limbo right now, in the US-Mexico border, in Tapachulas, in one of the most dangerous Mexican towns, also wondering if her partner is dead or alive. But then there's the flip side of the story, right? Which is the essence of who this man is. And that is the impact that he had in that soccer field years ago. The impact that he had training those kids, talking to those kids about this sport that
56:23 Speaker 02 has given them dreams and opportunities outside of Venezuela.
56:32 Speaker 02 If you walk through Jersey's hometown right now, you'll see a mural of him. If you go to his soccer team, to Perijanero FC, and the kids are talking about him. This kid, Alan Carvajal, he's a goalie in the youth team, in the very same field, again, where Jersey grew up. And his message is clear.
57:03 Speaker 02 Having a tattoo is not a crime. And I think the part of the story is also understanding that any one of those kids, and any one of these kids that are now trying to be Jersey, could end up like Jersey, where, you know, leaving the soccer team can end up taking you to a detention center, mega-prison in El Salvador.
57:26 Pablo Torre? It just occurs to me, Paula, that this is a lot for a bunch of 10-year-olds to deal with, right? The idea that your athletic idol, whether it is Iker Casillas or Jerce Reyes Barrios, would be gone, somewhere trapped in a nightmare of the United States and the dictator of El Salvador's creation. And so what are these team meetings like? What's practice like now for this team?
57:57 Speaker 02 Practice now ends with a prayer. And practice ends with Jersey's name in people's minds. He's remembered.
58:10 Speaker 02 Thank you for this day and also for our families. We ask that you help us. And also, members of the family,
58:21 Speaker 02 help Jersey, who was a great trainer for us. Guide him wherever he is. Help to free him, liberate him, so he's free wherever he is. Father, give him strength and courage. And let him know that he is with us, the Venezuelans. Amen.
58:48 Pablo Torre? It's hard not to think of that, Paula, as the goalie's prayer, right? Praying for someone now to save him.
58:57 Speaker 02 To save him, yeah. I mean, it's beautiful that he remains alive in that field with them somehow.
59:05 Pablo Torre? Yeah. Paula Ramos, thank you so much for helping us tell this story.
59:13 Speaker 02 Thank you for letting me do that. It really was a true honor.
59:36 Pablo Torre? This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.
59:59 Speaker 03 Wouldn't it be great if life's little upgrades didn't feel like a splurge? Like getting the aisle seat with extra legroom for a one-hour flight? Ordering extra guac with zero hesitation? Or paying for assembly on that swing set because you'd rather spend your Saturday doing literally anything else? It's called living filthy comfortable. And whatever filthy comfortable looks like to you, Schwab can help you find it with investing, trading, education, and human help. All in one place. Learn more at schwab.com. Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
1:00:29 Speaker 03 Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet? No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye. Get Verizon FiOS because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing. Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com.
1:01:13 Speaker 03 See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
Previous The Sporting Class: Welcome to Football Coachella Next Share & Swear & Tell with Jessica Smetana and Kevin Clark Page updated November 3, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated