Failure to Launch, Producing More Than You Consume, and Mentoring Young Men | ASK ME ANYTHING

Ryan Michler is joined by Alan Placer for this week's Ask Me Anything, tackling eight questions about fatherhood, masculinity, family, legacy, grief, mentorship, co-parenting, and business. They discuss when helping an adult child becomes enabling, what it means to be a real man, showing up for a parent with dementia, and navigating a child's relationship with a good stepfather. They also explore letting go of an inherited business legacy, dealing with infertility, becoming a mentor before you feel ready, and the hidden cost of being constantly available to your business. Along the way, Ryan and Alan return to a common theme: responsibility, boundaries, progress, and choosing to show up as the kind of man you want to be. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Opening & Alan Placer Joins the AMA 01:26 - The Lindsay Clancy Trial & Personal Responsibility 09:26 - Supporting an Adult Child Without Enabling Him 17:01 - What Makes a Real Man? 24:36 - Showing Up for a Parent With Dementia 35:08 - Co-Parenting With a Good Stepfather 43:28 - Letting Go of a Legacy Your Child Didn't Choose 49:01 - Carrying the Grief of Infertility 56:18 - What Qualifies a Man to Be a Mentor? 1:02:16 - The Hidden Cost of Always Being Available 1:10:13 - Wrapping Up With Alan Placer Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  No external validation, no support, no pouring into you. It's just not possible. And so you know, when you go to see your dad every week, you're doing it because that's what a good man or a good son does. Hard, I imagine, but man, amazing. Because to your point, you can look yourself in the mirror and say, you know what? I did that even though there was no benefit to me. But ironically, you'll receive a lot of benefit from it and you do when you serve other people.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  Alan, what's up, brother? So great to see you. You are a brand new face on the Order of Men, Ask Me Anything. So I do see that you're representing well with the executive polo that you have on. So I appreciate that.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  That's right. I appreciate you coming out with this. This is a nice fit.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  It was your idea.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it looks good on the golf course.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  It was your idea. We got to get some different, different colors, different patterns, but that was your idea. So I figured the least we could do is get one over to you. And yeah, it looks nice, man.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Good. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's good to be here. It's been a while.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, you've been wanting to fill in for Kip. You got, you got big shoes to fill, but I have no doubt you can do it, man.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that, man.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  He's awesome, right? Like Kip is amazing. I think he's in, I don't know where he is. He's either in Spain or Portugal, I think, right now with his oldest son. He's getting married. So I think he and his family are gallivanting around the globe right now, doing weddings and living it up on vacation. So, you know, here you are.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  I'll take it.

• 1:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure. Well, we got a lot of questions. We got some good questions. I kind of did a little, a little quick glance at some of the questions and I sent them over to you as well. Before we get into that, we usually do a wholesome segment and I had made a post the end of last week about the Lindsay Clancy trial, which is obviously national news. It's gained so much attention and it's really, it's really polarizing, actually, when you have a woman who murdered her three children, allegedly, we'll say.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  The fact that there's so many women across the planet who are justifying it. Now, look, I think most of their argument is around postpartum and I think that's a real thing. I think that's a real phenomenon. My ex-wife dealt with that, which with each of our children, but she also didn't murder my children. And I think there's millions and millions of women around the planet who have dealt with postpartum, who didn't kill their kids, who didn't strangle the life out of their kids. So it's not really an issue as to whether or not she did it. People will say, well, she never admitted it and she pled not guilty. Yeah, her own defense, this is the wild thing

• 2:51Speaker 00

  to me, her own defense never said anything to the contrary, basically just pleading for insanity or not criminally responsible is how they look at it in the state of Massachusetts. And then you have a legion of women who say, well, I think he did it. Well, if there was even an inkling of that, don't you think the defense would have latched on to that? But they didn't. They didn't latch on to that. They latched on to the idea that she was insane at the time. So from a wholesome perspective, there's one lone juror, 11 to one, one lone juror, a man who held out. And that is a wholesome man right there because

• 3:35Speaker 00

  I cannot imagine these jurors were not sequestered.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  In fact, two of the female jurors came back on deliberation day and they were wearing pink. Now, some people say that was coincidence. I don't think it was. I think they were standing in solidarity with Lindsay Clancy supporters. And this one man held out against not only the, the amount of nagery happening behind closed doors, I'm sure, but also the millions, millions of women and legions of, of extreme feminists who, you know, wanted to excuse her for killing her three children. That's the wholesome segment of the day. I don't even know the guy's name. I'd love to interview him, but.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  That would be cool.

• 4:16Speaker 00

  Good luck.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  And you know, there's, I don't think they, they talk about consequences. I don't think she's trying really to get out of ownership of that she killed her kid. She's trying to get out of the consequences of her actions. Whether you do something or not, I don't think that's being questioned here. And yeah, you can call it a reason, you can call it an excuse, whatever it is, it still carries consequences. It's not, oh, I'm not guilty. So therefore there's no consequences to it. No, society, you know, we have to have these boundaries.

• 4:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's, well, number one, I agree because, okay, let's just assume that we, that she was not convicted or acquitted of the, of the charges.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  I mean, that opens up a whole can of worms. Like, there's a couple of thoughts that come to my mind with this. So number one is now, we could say that any criminal, anybody who murders somebody in cold blood, we would all say is insane, right? Like, everybody would say that.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  So does this. Against society's norms. So therefore it's insane.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  So now, do we, do we let everybody go just because they have a moment of criminal insanity? Or are there still consequences? I often tell my kids, like, my, my kids will say, well, you know, Dad, I didn't mean to do that. Like, I don't really care if you meant to do it. You did it. And here was the outcome. Now, I'll take that into consideration. You weren't maliciously doing something, but the outcome was the same regardless of whether or not you meant to do it. So maybe you ought to think a little bit harder about the outcome or the consequences of your behavior before you engage in the behavior.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  I think we live in the society now where it's just devoid and free of any consequences for any personal responsibility.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  Can you imagine you, a drunk driver hit somebody? They didn't mean to hit somebody. So should they not have consequences?

• 6:27Speaker 00

  Well, the alcohol.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Mentally incompetent at the time.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Exactly. So the alcohol thing is a very interesting argument to this because we would never, I mean, we would say that Lindsay Clancy, I say we as society, I think that the prevailing, I don't even know if it's prevailing based on a couple of posts I've made, but there is a, a large contingency of people who say she's not guilty by way of insanity or not criminally responsible because she was not in her right state of mind. Well, I think we'd also agree that anybody who's belligerently drunk is not in the right state of mind. And yet we don't say that they're incapable of knowing right from wrong, even in that moment, we would still try them, convict them rightfully so.

• 7:14Speaker 00

  So for manslaughter at worst, or excuse me, at best, because we believe that people have responsibility still. Like, you have to make choices.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I'll be very curious to see the finale for this. And, and like you said, you know, what's the repercussions down the road for the legal system? What are they going to do with it?

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. So, I mean, this, this lone juror, whoever he is, props to you wholesome. On an unwholesome note, that her, her attorney, her defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, is a horrible sack of debris. The fact that he is intimidating a juror, and mind you, these jurors are not sequestered. So when he goes and he makes public statements about who this juror is, and he mentioned it was a man, so that whittles it down from 12 to three. And he starts talking about why this person's not following the law, why this person

• 8:20Speaker 00

  should be removed, why this person is, is not worthy of being on, on the jury. And he's doing that publicly while the jury is not sequestered. What that means is that all jurors are hearing this. That guy ought to be barred. He's a, he's a horrible, horrible attorney. At, at best, he's engaged in questionable, questionable ethical practices. And at worst, he's just a horrible human being. And he's working to, to manipulate, to intimidate a jury, a juror specifically. He's, he's whittled it down to one or three, I should

• 9:02Speaker 00

  say. And I think that guy is, I would love nothing more than to see him barred and never practice law again for his mafia-like tactics with regards to intimidating jurors.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, very curious to see where it goes down the road. What are the consequences even for him? And it's going to make some changes to our legal system for sure.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  No doubt, no doubt. All right. So Soapbox stepping down from, let's get to some questions today, man.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  All right. Hopefully I get the pronunciations right here. I know there's a history there. So the first one comes from Grady Pemberton. And Grady asks, "My 24-year-old son moved back in six months ago after a breakup and job loss, and I can't tell if I'm helping him get back on his feet or just letting him coast. How do you know the difference between supporting a grown kid and enabling him?"

• 10:05Speaker 00

  I'm trying to think if I would, if I would do that. I would do that. I would do that. If, if my 24 year old son went through a breakup or a job loss or was struggling with some way to transition from college into, you know, adulthood, I would do that. So I commend you for that first, but I would have some rules in place and I think that's the difference. You know, if, if it's indefinite, if it's like, yeah, bud, you can go move in here and just like whenever you get your back on your feet, like that's, that's the line right there. But if I said to my son, hey bud, you got three months. And in the next three months, I want to see you looking for a job every day.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  I want to see you doing healthy things that are going to get you over this breakup.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  And I want you and/or I want you to work on a personal development.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  And as long as you're doing those things, you have three months.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  And on the 91st day, you're out of here. I'll help you find an apartment. I'll help you, hell, I'll help you put a deposit down on your apartment. As long as you're doing the things, then I will help you do that thing. But the problem is, I think with a lot of men is we just enable where there's no rules, there's no boundaries, there's no timetables. And I think that's where it becomes a problem. So I don't think it's a bad deal if you have structure around it that you're not enabling and crippling him, but that you're actually promoting healthy practices. But I also have to be really honest. I wonder if you've even done this for the past 24

• 11:48Speaker 00

  years. Because when I moved out, so when I turned 18, see, I turned 18 in April, and then later that month or the beginning of May, I went on my senior trip. And we were in California for about a week and I came back. And the next day I was packing all my stuff up and my mom came into my bedroom. She's like, what are you doing? Like, I'm packing my things. She's like, what do you mean, you're packing your things? Where are you going? I'm like, oh, I got a apartment in Cedar City, which is a neighboring town about 20 miles south of me. And she's like, wait, you got an apart apartment? I'm like, yeah. She's like, how'd you even do that? I'm like, I don't know,

• 12:31Speaker 00

  I just reached out to him and said, I'm looking for an apartment with four buddies and we put a thousand dollars down or whatever it was. And then they just gave us a lease agreement and we signed it for six months. I don't know.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Give them money, they give you apartment.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. She's like, I didn't even know you knew how to do that. I'm like, yeah, well, I didn't know how to do it until I did it either. But the point that I'm making is I moved out when I was 18. I've never moved back in with my parents. Never. I'm not saying there wouldn't be times where I might, or might need to. But damn, if I do that, that's failure to me as a son. So.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  I will say, I moved back in twice with my family, once during college and then once again after divorce. And we didn't have those boundaries. I was still, I was getting after it on my own, thank God. But yeah, I probably could have lived there forever. My brother, my sister, lots of people actually moved in with my parents from time to time. They were a pretty open door. We have a guy in my battle team going through this right now with his mature adult son who's struggling to get on his own, struggling to motivate to get on his own. And I think that's the big difference. I don't think any good parent is going to hold, you know, is, is going to tell their kid the first time they need a place to say, no, you can't come here. I don't think that's

• 13:55Speaker 01

  the issue. The issue really is, how do you know if you're moving the line? And you said it best there with, you know, you have to put those boundaries in place when they're moving in, set up the guidelines that you will have a job, you know, you will be working to get your own place, you will be saving money, you won't be sitting in the basement playing video games, whatever the rules you need to make, that's going to help your kid go. And then to Grady's point, how do you, how can you tell the difference as you go? Is you're measuring the progress? You're looking to see, you know, three weeks from now, are they in a better place where they were? Maybe not necessarily ready to move out, but are they in a better place and ready to, to

• 14:37Speaker 01

  roll on? And then, you know, you actually described really well, what moving out looks like. And I think that's important too, because a lot of parents will set those boundaries. But then what happens when that three month time limit comes? Are you just going to put their stuff out on the curb and let them go? Like you were clear, I'm going to help them get an apartment, you know, put the deposit down, get them out. You should have a picture of what it actually looks like if they hit that time limit. Because otherwise you're painting an empty promise and that leads to future taking advantage of you.

• 15:14Speaker 00

  I think that's a solid point because I don't think any, I don't think any good parent would just like kick their kids out, put all their furniture and clothes on the lawn. Like, I would agree. But if you don't do anything between day zero and day 90, then that's the consequence that you're left with. And you wouldn't do that. So what happens is now, you're going to let them stick around for another 90 days. Right? So I would even go as far as saying, hey, here, here's what I want, bud. You got 90 days here. Okay, I want you to present a plan to me before you move in, by the way, because you're 18, you're an adult. Before you move in, I want you to present

• 15:54Speaker 00

  to me a weekly plan on checkpoints that you're going to do for the next 12 weeks. So on week one, I want you to have a job. I don't care if it's at McDonald's flipping burgers. I don't actually care where it is. You might say, well, you know, I have a, I have a college degree. I don't care about your college degree. What I care about is you actually going out. If I, if Order of Man went under, under today, I'm not above going to McDonald's to flip burgers part time. Because that's my responsibility. I have a mortgage, I have kids, I have obligations, financial obligations. I'm not above that.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  And I would buy that burger.

• 16:31Speaker 00

  It would be delicious. It'd be the best McDonald's burger you ever had. It's kind of a little Trumpian right there. It'd be delicious. It'd be the best burger. Wonderful. It'd be incredible. But yeah, I would, I would have my son or daughter say, okay, like, give me a 12 week plan. And we're going to sit down every Tuesday night. And we're going to have, we're going to have checkpoints. And if you're missing it, there's going to be consequences.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  And if you're on track, I'm going to help you promote and see if we can do it even faster. But we can't enable them. We got to empower them. That's how you do it.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  That's it. Empower. I like it. All right. Ozzy Renfro is going to throw a quick question out. If you had to define a real man in one sentence for a room full of teenage boys, what would it be?

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Easy. A man produces more than he consumes.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Thank you. I, your words came right to my mind when I thought of this.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  It's as simple as that. I mean, it's the reason why 100 years ago, we had 12, 13, 14 year old kids who lost their father and they would step up and they'd literally leave school to step up and go work in the factories to be able to provide income for the family. That's a man. Has nothing to do with age, a little to do with age, but maturity, I should say. I, I know 14 year old boys who I would consider more manly than some 40 year olds I know. Because they produce more than they consume. It's as simple as that.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  And I will add a little on to it, just to put another point to it, that a real man can stand on his own too. Like you can produce a whole lot and still live in your mom's basement and, you know, not cook a meal. You need to be able to be sovereign, you know, stand alone, be able to take care of yourself in, in, in addition to producing more than you consume.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, no, I think, I, I would agree with that. I, I think that's a valuable component of it.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, it, but again, this goes back to even our previous question about your son moving back home at 24 now. So now he's not acting like a man. I'm not talking about his morality or sense of worth as a human being, but I'm talking about his contribution to society as a man. And when he moves back home, he's not acting manly. That's not manly behavior. Now, I realize there's conditions, there's reasons, there's excuses. I realize that. But if we strip everything else away, he's acting more like a boy than he is a man when he does that. And again, there might be moments in your life where you need to do that, where I might be struggling personally, and I need other people to pour into me, and I can't pour into them. It's acceptable if there's

• 19:31Speaker 00

  growth and progress, to your point. But yeah, I mean, we ought to be teaching our children how to produce.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  You know, like, my oldest son, he graduated high school earlier this year, and he's going to play college lacrosse at Southern Utah University. And he went and had his first training session at the gym with the guys, the weightlifting gym. And then he did some box lacrosse. And he messaged me, and I said, how did it go? And he's like, oh, it was good. It was hard. And I said, yeah, you're, you're operating with the top 10% of high school players now. Like, they just separated 90% of the weaker ones and just drew 10% in, and that's you. So it's gonna be harder. I said, do you feel like you can hang? He's like, oh, yeah, I can hang. It's like, I was a little rusty. My timing was a little off. But, but I can definitely hang. Like, yeah, you're right. You know what that kid does?

• 20:25Speaker 00

  Every single day, that kid throws at least 200 to 300 wall balls. Which, if you don't know what a wall ball is, when it comes to lacrosse, it's literally taking your stick and throwing 100 this way at the wall, 100 that way at the wall, 100 behind your back, 100 this way. And if he ever misses a, a ball, meaning, meaning misses a catch on any of those, he starts over. So he's out there every day. He's, he's lifting weights, he's doing wall balls. Sometimes I'll message him, like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm just at the field throwing lacrosse. I'm like, with who? He's like, just me. He drives around with a portable net that you can break down. It's called a rage cage. I

• 21:08Speaker 00

  bought it for him for, I think, his birthday or something. And he drives around in his car with extra lacrosse sticks and with his rage cage. And he'll just go pull over into a park or at the high school, and he'll throw it up, and he'll go shoot a bunch of balls just for fun. That's somebody who's producing more than he consumes. He's putting the effort and the work in. It's no surprise to me that he's having success early in his life, because he's acting like a man.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, I'd spot on to it. You know, when I was 18, I, I wanted to become a man. I felt, what do I do to become a man? So I joined a fire department. Not, not because it was like, I always had this dream of being a fireman, like every little boy. I did it because I thought that would make me a real man. It didn't. It's not it. It's not what you do. It's what you produce. Like you're saying, you know, it doesn't matter what the career is. You can be an accountant, and you can be a real man. He doesn't have to look pretty on camera kind of thing.

• 22:14Speaker 00

  Do you think, Alan, there's any danger in, I've wrestled with this idea, and I don't have the answer to it. That's why I'm asking you. But do you think there's any danger in measuring your sense of worth by your production over your consumption?

• 22:28Speaker 01

  I, I think, but you have to look at production as one piece of your sense of worth. And also, not just one piece of production, you know, that's one thing I learned with firefighting is there was plenty of really good, lifesaving firemen that were horrible husbands, you know, or, and some of them, you see these overweight firemen, and they're not taking care of their health. So I think you have to look at the overall scope to do it right.

• 23:03Speaker 00

  I think that's valid. I, I often pastors come to mind. You know, you've got, you've got a pastor who's 100 pounds overweight. I'm like, I'm sorry, like, I can't, I can't take you seriously. You're talking to me about overcoming sin and temptation, and you're engaged in one of the, you know, the great sins, which is gluttony. So, I mean, you have no discipline. I'm sorry, I can't take whatever you're talking about from the spiritual perspective seriously, because you're not living it yourself.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do find it's really hard to find a man that hits on every single quadrant, you know, at that high, hard level. And, and I don't think it's that we're not capable. I think it's that we're not taught. And we don't have role models necessarily for each of the different areas of life.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  I mean, but I also don't think they need to be hitting it at, at a 10 at every quadrant. I think they need to be progressing.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  That's the most important thing to me. Like, if I, if I'm a five on one aspect of my life, I was, I would still follow a person like that if tomorrow, they're a five and a half.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:23Speaker 00

  And next year, they're a seven. And the next year, they're an eight. Like, I would still follow a person like that. It's, it's the ones who are a five and a half, and a five and a half, and a five and a half, and a five and a half. Like, all right, bro, like, fix yourself first, and then I will follow you. But I can't do it right now.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  I agree. Wholeheartedly agree.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. All right. What's next?

• 24:48Speaker 01

  All right. Yeah, we segued off Ozzy's question a little. Next one is from Bruce Callahan. This one hit home for me a little bit. I moved my dad into memory care last month. He looked at me like a stranger the last time I visited, and I drove home and sat in my driveway for an hour before I could go inside. Nobody prepared me for grieving someone who's still alive. How do you show up for a parent who doesn't know you anymore? This is a hard one for me. My, my brother's going through this.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  Go ahead. I'd like to hear. I, I haven't experienced this. So go ahead and explain.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely a hard one to answer if you haven't. I never had until three, four years ago, my brother had a massive stroke. He's three years older than me. And that's his position now for the rest of his life. And I'm his primary caretaker. And it's tough going to visit him because he doesn't, whether or not he knows who you are from day to day varies. So I totally get where you're coming from with this, Bruce. And I had to reflect on this question a good bit. You know, it does fall back to that. Each time you go visit him, you don't know what you're gonna get. You don't know if he is, if he is getting who you are, if he knows you're his son or not. But what is

• 26:10Speaker 01

  great is you can share an experience with him each and every time. You know, you could joke and say, you could share the same experience each and every time. But you still get to share moments with him. Whether he knows who you are or not, you're bringing joy to his life, and he can bring memories to your life. The hardest thing for you would be if it's, you feel it's too hard for you to go now, and so you stop, and now you have a lifetime of regret when he passes, that you didn't get to help him live out his life. You didn't fulfill your role as, as a son to him. Because I do believe we have obligations

• 26:54Speaker 01

  to our parents, just as as parents, we have obligations to our kids. And for our parents, that's in their end years mostly. And you have a relationship with your God that you have to be able to maintain, too, that, you know, did you treat him as a person who put so much into treating you as, as you should back to him? It's tough. I feel for you, for sure.

• 27:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, again, I, I have the luxury of not having to deal with this. I do remember my great grandmother, who, when I was little, I must have been 12 or 13 years old, maybe even younger, probably younger, actually, maybe nine, 10. And I had long hair, like, down to my shoulders. And I went into a room because my mom wanted to see her, and she looked, she looked like a skeleton, man. Like, she, I don't even know how to explain it. She just looked like a skeleton. No muscle, no definition, just skin on board. And I was so scared. I remember being scared. I was like, I was scared. And she thought I

• 27:58Speaker 00

  was a girl. Because she just associated my long hair with, like, the long hair of a girl. And I don't remember being upset about it, but I do remember asking my mom about it. And she's like, she's not in her right mind. She doesn't know. Like, she doesn't understand. There's nothing to be offended about. And then my grandparents, my grandfather suffered from dementia, my grandmother suffered briefly from Alzheimer's. And I actually think, without, I don't, I'm not trying to be insensitive. Again, I haven't really experienced this, like, somebody who's really, really close to me. My ex-wife's grandmother dealt with it a little bit, and sometimes she acknowledged, and sometimes she didn't. But I think there's a couple of things that, that I would suggest, again, from the luxury of not having to deal

• 28:40Speaker 00

  with this really too specifically. Number one, this is an amazing opportunity for you as a man. This is an amazing opportunity. Let me tell you why. Because there is no reward in it for you. There is no, there's literally zero, depending on the severity of your father. There is zero benefit to you. There's no validation. There's, there's no, there's no support. Like, there, there's nothing. Like, he, he can't give you anything. And what that means, the reason I think this is such a powerful moment for you as a man,

• 29:25Speaker 00

  is now your motives are 100% pure.

• 29:32Speaker 00

  Am I going to be a good son because that's what a good son would do?

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Am I going to be a good man because that's what a good man does? No external validation, no support, no pouring into you, it's just not possible. And so you know, when you go to see your dad every week, you're doing it because that's what a good man or a good son does.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  Hard, I imagine, but man, amazing. Because to your point, you can look yourself in the mirror and say, you know what? I did that even though there was no benefit to me. But ironically, you'll receive a lot of benefit from it and you do when you serve other people.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  I make me want to go visit my brother now.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  It's, but it's true. It's spot on.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And it's tough and it, look, this could go on for years. You know, I don't know what his health status is for me. I could have 20 years with my brother yet.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  So Bruce, just like you reached out here, there are, you know, it's, you reached out to a support group. You fortunately got somebody that has a little knowledge. There are support groups, usually within the facilities. And then there's groups like the Iron Council where you'll hit up other men that are going through other similar things that, you know, can be really good to be able to have those conversations because it's going to be an ongoing struggle. This isn't something you're going to solve one day in your head and, you know, two months from now, you're going to start questioning it again.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I just think there's something powerful also. Tell me what you think about this, Alan, the idea of expectations, right? So we, we typically go into situations in our lives with a handful of expectations. You know, I might go into a job interview, for example, with the expectation that I'm going to get the job. Or, or an employer review with the expectation that I'm going to be acknowledged and potentially receive a promotion or a bonus. You, you go into a romantic situation where it's like, hey, we had a great night tonight. I took you out. We, we did dinner. We had a good time and the expectation is, I'm going to get, get lucky tonight. I'm going to have some intimacy with my wife.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  I have just found that the more expectations that I have in my life, the least, the less happy I am.

• 31:55Speaker 00

  When I go in with, look, I have, okay, so I think this is a good point to explain the difference between external expectations and internal standards.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  Right? So I'm going to show up as fully as I can. That's an internal standard. That's the way that I choose to show up. And I have faith, not expectation, but I have faith that things will work out if I do that. Because they have. And that's just what I believe. That's etched into my DNA. But I don't have expectations about the way, for example, Alan being the first time on our AMA, the way that you're going to show up. I, I have hopes that you will show up fully and you are. I have my own personal standard that I will show up fully. But it just, it just makes life better when I have zero expectations. Unless we've explicitly talked about it, right?

• 32:51Speaker 00

  So if I said, hey, Alan, you know, show up at 10 o'clock for an hour and a half and you show up at 10:30 for 15 minutes. Well, we explicitly talked about what those expectations are. You probably won't get an invite back on the show.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  Right. And that's a boundary.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Right. And, and that's communicated, right? So I guess it might be uncommunicated expectations would be something that I would really focus on trying to let go of.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  That's good.

• 33:21Speaker 01

  And that's where, that's where he's suffering is the zero expectations that he can have with his dad. And it's, yeah, it's a good growth point for the rest of your life.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  I mean, you don't really have expectations for your toddler children, right?

• 33:37Speaker 01

  I think you do. I think that's why we get frustrated with them. Because we, we say it and when they don't do it, we get frustrated.

• 33:47Speaker 00

  I know, but if your kid, if your two-year-old throws a temper tantrum in the grocery store while you're shopping, you're like, yeah, like I'm embarrassed. I don't want to do this, but also, yeah, that tracks for a two-year-old. I got it.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  And so we don't, like, we do get frustrated, but we're not going to like beat them because of it.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  I hope not.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  I mean, some people might, but like, you're a decent person. You wouldn't, you'd just be like, yeah, he's been a two-year-old. He needs to learn some boundaries.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  But like we, but we don't have, maybe our standard, maybe our standard is lowered. Our, our expectations are lowered because we realize, okay, this is a little child incapable of coherent thought all the time. And maybe it's the same for your father. Like this is my father. He's like a child. I mean, that's what, that's the ironic thing about life is you start as this little innocent creature incapable of making your own choices or surviving on your own. And then we build you over time and this capable, solid man who can raise a family and have a job and overcome hardship. And then as you get older, now you're like more like a child and

• 34:55Speaker 00

  you need help and you can't get around as fast and you might be annoying to people around you because you're driving too slow or you're taking too long to get on the plane or whatever it is. But we, if you're a decent human being, like, no, that's like, I expect that. I get that.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  We start in diapers, we end in diapers.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  Exactly. I hope I'm never back in diapers again. All right. What's next?

• 35:21Speaker 01

  All right. Um, Deshaun Pruitt. My ex-wife's new husband coaches my daughter's soccer team now, buys her gifts I can't afford. And she started asking to spend more weekends over there. I know jealousy is the wrong instinct, but I don't know what the right one is. How does a man co-parent against a guy who's genuinely good to his kid?

• 35:47Speaker 00

  I mean, good.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  What's the alternative? He's an asshole. He cheats on your ex. He treats them horribly. Like what is the alternative?

• 36:00Speaker 00

  There are some things money can't buy and that's the love of a son or daughter. And so she might really like this guy. She might really like the gifts. Was it, was it a daughter or a son? I didn't, I didn't pick up on that.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  This is a daughter.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  Daughter. She might really like the guy. He might buy her gifts that you can't afford. He might, you know, say the right thing. He might coach her team well. You know what? Good. Good. I mean, she's going to be around all sorts of men in her life. I would rather her be around good men. Even if it's at the expense of my relationship with her, but I don't think it has to be. So.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  It doesn't sound like it is.

• 36:38Speaker 00

  No, I'm like, he might coach the team. Well, go be his assistant coach.

• 36:45Speaker 00

  Like I know, I know in communities like this, I live in a pretty small town and I'm sure it's the same everywhere. Like finding men who will actually step up to coach kids' sports teams is damn near impossible. So call a guy up and say, hey, bro, do you need help being an assistant coach? I'd love to do this together. We, we had an event years ago. I don't know if it's the event that you were, oh no, it was a, it was a legacy event. So I don't, I don't think you were there. It was in Maine. And this guy calls me up and he's like, hey, Ryan, like I have a unique circumstance. I wanted to talk to you about it and see if it's a possibility. So the legacy event is a father-son event that we do. And this guy who called me was the biological father of his son that he wanted to bring out. And I said, yeah, cool. No problem. It's like, what's the issue?

• 37:29Speaker 00

  And he's like, well, my, my son's stepfather wants to come too.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  And so we want to come out as biological father, stepfather and bring this one son.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  And my knee jerk reaction is, and I told him this, I said, I don't want any shenanigans. I don't want you guys like competing. I don't want you guys fighting or making it weird for your son because it's going to ruin it for everybody else. I don't want any of that. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. We actually have a really good relationship. Like I like him. He likes me. We all spend time together. We, we are working on behalf of, of our son and there's no weirdness. And he came out and his, his son's stepfather came out. They were amazing.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  Like, I watched them eat dinner together with their son, interact, have conversations. You know, I had something similar with my oldest son when he got into powerlifting when we were out there in Maine. And he started talking about his coach, Coach Moore this, Coach Moore that, oh, Coach Moore said this, oh, Coach Moore. And I'm like, God, who is this Coach Moore guy? And it was so annoying and obnoxious and I was a little jealous at first. And then I realized, oh, Coach Moore is a good dude. He cares about my son and other kids, like he pours into them in a way that I might not be able to do myself. So why am I fighting with this guy, even if it's in my head? And I decided instead of fighting with this guy, just to embrace the fact that my son

• 39:01Speaker 00

  had another man to look up to. It was beautiful, so amazing. And I never undermined that relationship after when my son said, Coach Moore this, or, you know, Coach Moore that. I'd be like, well, he's your coach, you probably ought to listen to him about what he's saying. If I thought it was the right path. And it was great. So I think we can choose to be contentious or we can choose to embrace it. And it sounds like she might have another pretty decent dude in her life. Awesome.

• 39:32Speaker 01

  And I think that's important is to look at it from your kid's angle. It's way more important in this case that she has three role models in her life to go by. It's not a competition with him and how wonderful is it for her that she has? She can have a great relationship with him and a great relationship with you. It's not about who can spend more time with the other or who can buy nicer gifts. It's that you're showing up as the kind of man that she needs to see in her life. And, and so is this other guy. And you may be showing up totally differently. Ryan and I are two totally different people. We raise our kids two totally different ways. Neither one is bad. Let her see both, let her see multiple. And you know what, Deshawn? You may meet a girl one day that you marry.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  And now she has a fourth person in her life that's hopefully a role model. You know, there are societies in Africa and all, and, and back in the old days where truly the village raised the kids. The parents weren't as important. To have the wide variety of role models, I think is, is more important. And your daughter, you know, she may have both of you walk down the aisle with her one day. Or, you know, she can love you both. There's no limit as to how many people a person can love. So I, yeah, let, let go of the competition with the other guy. I think the whole question kind of had that underlying, um, you know, well, I get it. You don't want to be jealous, but there's still an underlying.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  And I think that's a natural man, man competition kind of thing to be in. Yeah.

• 41:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think, I think you're absolutely right. There's, there's a tinge of, of jealousy and maybe frustration. And from a tactical level, I, I could give you a couple of tactical examples that I would employ. Number one is when she talks about him and she probably will, because it's her coach and they're pretty involved, it sounds like. You don't need to undermine it because if you undermine him, again, unless it's something unhealthy, but let's just assume that it's healthy. If you undermine him.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  What, what do, Alan, if I, if I put, like, if we were face to face and I pushed you, like, I just pushed, I shoved you, what would you do?

• 41:49Speaker 01

  I think I'd turn around and have words with you.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, you'd push back on me, right? Physically, verbally, you'd push back, right?

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:57Speaker 00

  If I pulled you, I pulled you towards me, what would you do?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  Now I'm really going to question. I don't know, I might get a little more physical with that.

• 42:08Speaker 00

  I'd probably pull away. Like, if you're trying to pull me into you, I'm going to like pull away, like, I'm going to like create some distance. And the same thing is true of what we're talking about now. If you start to push to a man that she respects, and it sounds like she does, she's going to push back.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  You're going to alienate. If you pull away, because you're like, well, he loves, she loves him more than me and I'm just going to pull away. I'm going to ghost, she's going to pull back.

• 42:41Speaker 00

  So you need to maintain your frame as a man. When she says, hey, my coach, Rob, or whatever, uh, said to do this, like, well, he's your coach. Like, you should probably listen to him. Why don't you and I go practice that together this afternoon?

• 42:56Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 42:58Speaker 00

  I'm not pushing, I'm not pulling, I'm just supporting. When he buys her a nice gift and she's like, hey, he bought me a pony for my 13th birthday. You're like, that's amazing, you've always wanted to ride. Is there equipment that you need? Because maybe I can get you a pair of riding pants.

• 43:16Speaker 00

  I like, there's things that you can do. It's not about the money you spend, it's about the attentiveness. It's about the fact that you care about her. You're not going to push, you're not going to pull, you're going to maintain your frame as a man. And you're going to support her as your daughter and as her father. And it's going to be awesome. It's good, I promise, it's good.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I like it. Ryan, this next question is good for both of us, I think. Rafferty Solano. I built a contracting business from nothing over 20 years and my son wants no part of it. He's got his own path and I respect that, but I always pictured handing him the keys. How do I let go of a legacy plan my kid never signed up for? Your kids are younger still, so you don't know where they're going yet.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, like, get over it.

• 44:12Speaker 00

  I don't know, you know, there's a lot of things you can do in business. Maybe there's an exit strategy, maybe you sell it to somebody else and you use that to lean more into what he's doing. If that sounds something like you're interested in.

• 44:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's all, that's good. Like, we, we've been talking a lot about our kids. Actually, that's probably an underlying theme for this podcast today is children and legacies and how do we raise them correctly? I want my kids to find their own path. If it happens to align with mine, great. If it happens to be completely opposite, great, as long as it's legal, moral and ethical, I'm good with it. I'm fine, and I will support you in that, in that move. But sometimes we think that our legacy is what we hand down, business-wise, right? The empire that you're trying to build. It, it might not be that. It might just be that you've built this incredible business that gives you the freedom and flexibility to be there as often as you can. So I think about that with my oldest. Like I said, he's playing college lacrosse.

• 45:10Speaker 00

  He's going to be traveling from California to Phoenix to Montana. I've built a life around this business that I can go do that. I can go travel, I can follow his team around if I want. Now, I probably won't be able to make every game, but isn't that just as meaningful when it comes to legacy? Like, he'll always remember, oh, you know, there was this, uh, game in Missoula and my dad flew up for two days to watch me play against Missoula. Well, the business is what created that for me. The business created that opportunity for me to go do that. So was the business wasted because he doesn't want to be in the business, at least right now? No, it created opportunities that I could actually be part of his life.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  And the same is true, you know, I took my daughter, uh, for her birthday last week, uh, to, to lunch. We went to this little Italian, excuse me, um, Indian cuisine place that she really likes. I, I don't have to ask somebody if I can go take my daughter to lunch and get permission from some big brother to tell me, hey, I'm going to take an hour off to take my daughter to lunch. That's not a thing I have to ask for. I just go do it. If I want to take off at two o'clock in the afternoon because my son's struggling or he wants, my second son, he's learning how to drive. He was like, hey, dad, can, can I take the Tacoma and we can go learn to drive? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, how about two o'clock? I'm like, two o'clock's perfect. I don't have to ask somebody else to do that. I just go do that shit.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  And so there's a lot of benefits that come with your business, other than the fact that maybe he doesn't want to own the business that have created opportunities for you to connect more deeply with him.

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, I have a business that's 18 years old now. My son has no interest in taking it over, just not his thing at all. And, uh, and I'm glad because your legacy isn't about stuff. It, it's not about what you physically may hand somebody. Uh, and I'm kind of glad to not hand him, while it may make money, it's also a burden. I would rather sell my business, be able to fly him and I on vacations racing cars, buy a lake house where families can, you know, get together, uh, and enjoy the holidays together as a group. You know, use it for that freedom.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  And hey, instead of just having, giving him a business, maybe you'll be able to give him a whole, a lot of money instead. And so he can live a more comfortable life. But it's really more about the memories. Legacy is about your, the memories you leave with somebody and the lessons you leave with somebody. That's what your legacy is. That's what's going to last, not just through the kids, but through the grandkids and, you know, generations to come. So be proud that you built the business, but you built the business, he didn't build the business. Let him build his own business. That's even prouder for you as a papa is for him to go off and do his own thing. And then you leave behind the memories that you can together.

• 48:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, like, to illustrate your point, you know, my oldest is like, hey, dad, I need to buy some gear and equipment and things for lacrosse. I'm like, well, how much is it? He's like, it's 1,500 bucks, which is not insignificant, $1,500. Um, it's all subjective, but it's like, no, it's like, that's, that's a check, like, that's $1,500. And I said, I'll, I'll give you $1,500 if you do these things and I'll bankroll that. I'll bankroll your, your dream, your desires, if you do this. And he's obligated to keep me in the loop. He's obligated to tell me how practice goes. He's obligated to give me the schedules when they arise. He's obligated to, you know, just be engaged with me about how the team is doing. That's the deal I made.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Well, that wouldn't have happened if I didn't create this business, even if, and he, it's not the case, but even if he didn't want anything to do with it, it's this business that created that opportunity.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, and that's where the legacy will come from is you guys getting to do your stuff together.

• 49:12Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Keep going with the kids question since we're on this.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  Lots today.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Mika Vandenberg. My wife and I have been trying to have kids for three years now. And every time someone asks when we're finally, uh, when we're starting, finally starting a family, I have to decide whether to lie or explain something that isn't really theirs to know. How does a man carry that kind of quiet grief without it hollowing him out?

• 49:45Speaker 00

  I think it would depend on who it was. Like, if it was somebody close in my circle, I think there's three categories of answers, okay? So, bear with me on this. So, the first is, uh, just dismissal. That's one category. Like, "Oh yeah, we're trying." And it's kind of like dismissive, right?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  For ninety percent of the general public that may ask you.

• 50:10Speaker 00

  And you may not even owe them an answer at all.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Um, so that's one category, is just dismissive. Another category might be, um, trying to think about the order I want to say this in. Uh, a little bit of truth, but kind of, um, filtered a little. Like, "Oh, you know, we've been trying, but it's been a challenge for us." If I said to a friend, like, "Hey, um, when are you guys gonna start a family?" And my friend said, "Oh, we're really trying, but it's been a bit of a challenge for us." Either I would take the hint, because we're not that close, to be like, "Oh, okay, like, that's cool. Like, I hope it all works out well for you."

• 50:58Speaker 00

  Or I would probe a little deeper, which leads into the third category, which is just radical honesty. Which is just, is you saying, "Hey, you know what? We've been trying for years, and we found out through the doctor that I'm infertile, or my wife, or whatever, like, whatever the situation is, and that we actually can't have children, so we're exploring alternative options right now." Those are the three categories. Dismissive, a little bit of truth filtered, and radical honesty. And then you just have to decide who gets access to what answer. Because if I tell, for example, a brother, I think a brother would, if you have a good relationship,

• 51:42Speaker 00

  would probably fall under radical honesty category. And you said, "Hey, you know, like, you've asked me that a couple of times, and it's a little hard when you ask me, because we've been trying, and we're infertile, and we're exploring other options." He's never gonna ask you that insensitively again, because you were honest with him about it. If it's somebody who's kind of an acquaintance, you know, and you don't want to, like, blow him off or dismiss him completely, it's like, "Hey, we're trying, but we're having some struggles, so, you know, I'll let you know if we find out that we have a little bundle of joy on the way." That shuts that down. They're like, "Got it. Got it. Understood." And then some people just don't deserve an answer.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  It's like, "Oh yeah, like, ah, we're, we're practicing a lot. Hasn't happened yet." And that's dismissive, right? And that's fun, it's dismissive, and it's like, you don't get access to that. But that's how I would look at it. Three categories, three places that each person falls into based on your relationship with them, and that's, that's how I would handle it personally.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd be, I'm a little concerned for Mika, you know, the kind of quiet grief. He's, that's his words. You're grieving. You, you, you're not done trying. The process isn't over. You're like, saying like, "This is a done deal, like, you're not gonna have kids." There's, as long as you're trying, this, you should not be grieving. You may be struggling, you're going through a difficult procedure, and look, if you do have kids, that's gonna make it even more rewarding for you. And there's adoption and other options, you know. Having a kid is, is, it's always an option to have a kid. Uh, it just can get harder and harder.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  But I, I would seriously look at, at internally the struggles you're having. That, I think, answers more of why you're having a hard time answering these people that are asking you, is because you're struggling with the answer yourself.

• 53:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think, well, I, I take a little bit of issue with something that you said. You said, "You should not be grieving." I mean, did you have this experience? If you are willing to answer that question?

• 53:57Speaker 01

  I did not, but again, because the process isn't over. Sounds like they're still trying.

• 54:04Speaker 00

  I know, but it, and I've never had this experience, so I'm trying to put myself in his shoes, and I can't fully, but I can attempt to. I think it's okay to feel bad about that. Like, I think it's okay to be frustrated or bothered, like.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 54:24Speaker 00

  So, I, I would just shy away from the "you shouldn't be grieving" conversation. No, breathe, like, it's, it's fun, you can. And then use that as fuel to figure out options. Maybe, maybe it's as simple as a diet change. I'm not trying to make light of this at all, but maybe it's simple nutrition and diet, or hormonal changes. Okay, so that's one thing. Maybe it's that you just can't, and so now we need to look at in vitro, or, again, I'm not in this position, so it's easy for me to say, but I would lean more towards adoption than in vitro and some of these other options. Again, I, I'm not in that boat, so I've had the luxury of not having to understand that on a personal level.

• 55:07Speaker 00

  But there's millions and millions of babies that need loving mothers and fathers. So, I would choose that alternative first, I think, if I were in your shoes. Um, but that goes to your point. Like, you are trying, you are actively doing something about it. It's not like you're sitting on your hands, hoping something will work out. So, use the grief, use the sadness, use the sorrow. But also, to go back to something we said previously, realistic expectations. I think there's, I think there's a, a room for hope and optimism in life, and, and faith. And I also think there's room for just being reasonable, so we can accept reality for what it is, and come up with alternative solutions

• 55:48Speaker 00

  that will drive us to what we ultimately want, which is a family. I want a family, I, I love my family. And I have people that I would consider family, who are not biologically related to me, and I would still call them family, and I would treat them as such. And that's the ultimate goal. So how do you create that in the best way possible for you and your bride?

• 56:13Speaker 01

  All right. I'm gonna throw another question. I know we're getting close on time, but maybe, uh, this question may segue into the war room, uh, a little bit also. Um, again, sticking with our child mode, or our, um, yeah, children mode. From Sterling Aldoous.

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Hmm, we got you. He got you.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  He did. Saved the last one there. I'm gonna go with Aldoous, although it's Little Rock, Arkansas. Um, "A guy at my church asked me to mentor his teenage son, and I said yes before I really thought it through. Now I'm guessing whether I've got any business guiding another man's kid when I still feel like I'm figuring out my own life. What actually qualifies a man to mentor?"

• 57:00Speaker 00

  The fact that he asked you to do it.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  The fact that you're a man?

• 57:06Speaker 00

  No, not even that. The fact that he asked you to do it. I know plenty of men that I would consider men, that I probably wouldn't want to mentor my children. He asked you to do it. This, this is the whole thing with imposter syndrome, Alan. People say this all the time. Like, I don't feel like, I had a friend who just got his brown belt in jujitsu, and he's like, "I don't feel like I'm a brown belt." I'm like, "It's not really up for you to decide." Like, somebody, your, your sensei, your instructor, your professor, whatever word you want to use, said, "You're a brown belt." It's not subject to interpretation by you. He's the one that gets to determine that. So in the absence of faith, or belief, we need to rely on the belief and faith of other people, because he sees something in you.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  The only thing that I would say to this is, just talk with the guy, right? So Alan, if you said, "Hey, Ryan, will you mentor my son?" And I said, "Yes," and then two days later, I'm like, "Oh, boy, what does this all entail?" Well, then I'm gonna call you. And I'm gonna say, or, or have a visit with you. Stop by your house, or go out to grab a bite to eat or something. And I'm gonna say, "Hey, Alan, you know, you asked me to mentor your son. I'm a little confused by that. I think I'm still trying to figure out life, and obviously, there's something you see in me. What is it that you're hoping to accomplish? What kind of conversations do you want me to have with him? Why me? Uh, what, what does he need the most help with? How do you see this dynamic working? Are there concerns that you have?

• 58:33Speaker 00

  Like, just ask really curious questions, and then you'll start to get to the root of what he saw in you. You know, you might say to me in that case, Alan, you might say, "Oh, well, you're really good at business, and I would like you to talk with him about how to run a successful business, and money, et cetera, et cetera." I'm like, "Cool. Got it. I can do that." And maybe it has nothing to do with teaching him moral principles, you're just wanting me to teach him about money. Well, you don't know unless you start having those conversations.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. You know, he said, uh, he doesn't feel like he's worthy of being mentored, because he's still figuring his own life out. Man, the last person I want to mentor my kid is somebody who thinks they know it all. Thinks they've got it all figured out. Let the kid know it's okay not to have it figured out. One day, we're all gonna wake up, and we're gonna be in a brown box, and we can tap on the roof of that brown box, and you know what? You're not gonna wind up saying, "Oh, now I get it all." No, we don't, we don't ever, we don't ever all have it figured out. So, um, yeah, no, to that point of, he saw something in you, and that's what he wants you to, to help his son learn.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Um, and just be okay that you don't know everything, and let, let his son know. It's okay to learn as you go. Be the best rookie that you can right now, not the best expert that you can.

• 1:00:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that last statement you made is really powerful. Sometimes when we're put in the power or the position of power, influence, credibility, authority, we believe as men like, oh, I've been dubbed, I've been knighted, right? And now I have to have everything figured out. And if I don't, then it's going to undermine my position of influence, authority and credibility. When actually, in my own experience and watching other leaders, the opposite is really true. When I hear a leader say, you know, actually, interesting, I don't really know the answer to that question, but let me figure it out and get back with you. There was a really powerful clip that I watched a couple of weeks ago, and I've seen it before.

• 1:00:43Speaker 00

  There was a young journalist who was interviewing Elon Musk and he was on the tarmac of his, you know, rocket propulsion systems or whatever. And he was talking about, I don't even know, he's talking about like boosters or I don't even know what it was. And the journalist said, you know, why doesn't this same technology apply to the entire rocket system? And Elon Musk is like, oh, it's like, wait, now that you're saying that, I think actually, we could apply it in this way, in this way, in that way. And then the kid, or the young man, I should say, interviewed him, you know, maybe it was six months, eight months, a year later.

• 1:01:27Speaker 00

  And Elon had implemented that technology in his rocket. And he had a really cool conversation. He's like, yeah, I just got thinking about that in real time. From the clip that I saw, what Elon failed to mention is the fact that it was that kid's idea. Or at least it was that question that got him to think about something he hadn't considered before. And I thought that was a really interesting display of humility on Elon Musk's part. He could have very easily said, you don't know what you're talking about. That doesn't work. That's stupid. But he didn't. He said, oh, this kid who knows less than me about rocket propulsion, asking me this question, challenging me respectfully in this way, gets me thinking about something different.

• 1:02:08Speaker 00

  And that's a really good exercise in humility from probably one of the most intelligent people on the planet and successful, obviously. So you can be humble and still be a mentor.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have to be.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  You want to keep going?

• 1:02:27Speaker 00

  I got time for one more.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  One more. All right. Let's go with,

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  here we go. Here's a quick one from Deacon Pharaoh. What's the actual cost of being always available for your business that most men don't see coming until it's too late?

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  The actual cost, say it, say it one more time.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  The actual cost of being always available for your business that most men don't see coming until it's too late.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  Oh, you can't work in your business.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good one.

• 1:03:03Speaker 00

  I mean, you, you can't work, I should say, on your business.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  Right? Like if I'm constantly inundated and I don't have free time for myself because people, you know, like one, one thing I often hear is, hey, can I pick your brain? And I actually, I watched an Instagram reel the other day. A guy was talking about this. He said, you know, when people say, can I pick your brain? You know what I tell them? And I'm like, curious what this guy's going to say. He says, yeah, go ahead and pick a payment option. I was like, that's pretty good, actually.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  I mean, that's the reality. He's like, no, you can't pick my brain because I'm doing things. The reason you want to pick my brain is because I'm doing things you're interested in. The more time I spend where people are picking my brain, the less time I get to do the thing that you're interested in picking my brain about. So you have to have boundaries in place so that you, yes, I want to be available. And you know, some of the things that I've done in the, recently is when people say, can I pick your brain? My question is about what? And, and they'll, they'll say, well, you know, just about business. I'm like, you're going to have to be more specific than that. That's a big category.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Like, well, I just want to mentor a business. I'm like, cool. We have the executive council. Here's where you can go. Or if they say, well, I have a question about this one specific topic. Oh, cool. Here's a great pod, listen to this podcast. And once you listen to it, let me know what you think. So I can still help those people because I don't want to be the kind of guy who's like, F off. Or too, too big or too better than other people because I've felt that way before. I don't want to be that guy. But if I have, and I do, I have a library of email responses and they're automatic responses. When a person has a specific question about business or running a men's organization or whatever, there's a half a dozen topics that most people ask me about. I have emails that have a library of responses.

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  So Alan, if you came to me and you're like, hey, I'm trying to start a men's group. You know, what would you do differently if you started over again? Email to beep, send. And that email too is usually says, hey, take a look at these resources. And then, once you go through them, email me back. You know how many people have emailed me back? What percentage? Would you guess?

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  Very few, I imagine.

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  Maybe like two to 3%.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  And then those are the people that I'm willing to pour a little more time into. So if a guy messages me back and he's like, hey, I listened to that podcast and I got that resource. And I had one additional question and it was X, Y, and Z. I'm probably going to invest a little more time in that person. Because I know they're serious about it. Because what most people will do is they'll just take, I'm trying to say this and still be like without a level of pretentiousness, but they'll take my generosity and slap me in the face with it. And a slap in the face is not doing anything with it. That to me is a slap in the face. If I take time out of my day

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  to go grab a coffee so you can pick my brain. And you don't do anything with it? You just said, my time is not important to you. And I'm sorry, I don't know everybody, but you're going to need to qualify that a little bit. Now, if you come up to me and you're like, hey, Ryan, I want to have a conversation. It's like, I was at Origin Immersion Camp a couple of weeks ago. And there was a couple of guys, one guy in particular that was going through divorce. He's like, Ryan, I really followed along when you were going through your divorce and I listened to some of your podcasts. They've been really helpful. Man, we had a great, we had a great conversation. I saw him sitting down. I sat by him at dinner. We had an additional conversation.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  You know, I'll pour in as much as I can, but I don't want to be misused, abused or mistreated. And so I have to be protective of my time because again, if you let yourself get pulled in that way, you won't be able to do the, the business at all. And that's not acceptable to me.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, you know, when I read this, the, the cost of always being available, the two quick, easy, obvious ones were, well, your relationships with your wife and kids suffer and, and your health, you know, so many fat businessmen out there. It's like, why are you putting all this work into your business if you're going to have a heart attack at 60? What's the point? But I like what you said about being in your business too much and not on it. You know, you, if you're available too much for your employees, you don't give them the opportunity to learn and let them fail. It's hard to let an employee fail because it costs you money.

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  But sometimes you gotta let them fail a little and then bail them out and, you know, hope it's not too customer facing. And then there's, sometimes when you're too available for your business and too in it, you're not picking your head up and looking far ahead enough. I recently started working with a group of businessmen that they have another zero behind their business than I do. Some of them two zeros behind theirs. And I've always prided myself with not working in my business. I'm always working on it. I'm on top. I'm at 50,000 feet. And when these guys ask me what I do on a daily with my business, the first thing they said is, oh, okay. We've got to help get you from working in your business to on it.

• 1:08:40Speaker 01

  I was like, what? No, wait, no, that's what I try not to do. But what I realized is as your business grows, what you were doing that was on the business should now be somebody else doing and becomes in the business. So your role constantly changes as you grow. And if you're always available, you know, in the trenches with the guys, you're not going to see that those changes need to happen. So I think that's a real, real important part of keeping your business growing. Or if you're always available, maybe there won't be a business one there, one day to be available for.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. I remember, I remember when I offloaded my first task in this podcast editing. I didn't want to do that. I mean, I could do it. It's not like rocket science. Like it, it does require a little bit of attention to detail and a little awareness of what clips to extract and things like that. I mean, but I was capable of doing it because I'm not an idiot. But it isn't where I wanted to be. Like I, I don't want to call myself a podcast editor. That's not something I'm interested in. Now there's other people, you know, Chad Robson, for example. And even he has a team now and his team is doing it. Like he's not even doing it anymore. His team is doing it.

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  So this is the natural progression so that we can all develop and advance in our businesses.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  It's not what can I be doing? It's what should I be doing?

• 1:10:09Speaker 00

  And what should other people, right? Like I think that's the important part is like, who are the right people? As Covey might say, the right people on the right places. And if you can find those individuals, the sky's the limit.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:10:26Speaker 00

  Cool. How did you feel your first? Yeah, I'm good. How did you feel about your first Ask Me Anything today?

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  I feel like it was a really good rookie at bat.

• 1:10:36Speaker 00

  You did good.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Put it that way, yeah.

• 1:10:37Speaker 00

  You did well.

• 1:10:38Speaker 01

  I'm no Kip.

• 1:10:38Speaker 00

  We'll have to run it back.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll definitely listen back and learn from it.

• 1:10:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, we'll run it back. I'm sure there'll be other opportunities. So why don't you bring it home, tell the guys where to connect? And then also, I know you were going to mention the War Room as well.

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Sure, so if you want to connect with me, the best way is in the Iron Council. I'm constantly in Ryan's group, the Order of Man's group, Iron Council, which I don't remember the URL to join offhand.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  OrderOfMan.com/ironcouncil.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  There you go. How easy is that?

• 1:11:14Speaker 00

  I'm a dumb person, so the easier it is for me, that works. If you're ever looking for anything that we do, just type in OrderOfMan.com/whatever. So if it's the Iron Council, OrderOfMan.com/ironcouncil. If it's the War Room, OrderOfMan.com/WarRoom, because I need it simple, otherwise I'll forget it.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Yep, and the War Room is another great new thing that Iron Council's doing, or Ryan's doing, or Order of Man's doing, the whole, it kind of, it's a community. But the next one is going to be on the 16th, I believe it is, at 8:00 PM Eastern, and you're going to get to see a lot more Kip on that.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Kip is going to be talking on the topic of...

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  That was a segue to you, Ryan, sorry.

• 1:12:03Speaker 00

  No, I just felt like just holding your feet to the fire a little bit. Now, we're going to be talking on the subject of rescuer, persecutor, and victim. It's actually called the Cartman Triangle. It's a psychological phenomenon that men fall into with regards to leadership, and how to move away from the rescuer, the persecutor, and the victim into a more stable, I would call it the anchor, I'm not sure what Kip calls it, but a more stable, healthy way of leading your kids, your wife, your colleagues, your coworkers, your neighbors, your community. So I'm very excited about it. September 16th at 8:00 PM Eastern, OrderOfMan.com/WarRoom, all one word, two R, all one word.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  I love it. I love that topic. That's not one you hear spoken of much in the men's space. It's just, "Oh, lead, go lead, go be in charge." But, you know, how to lead, that's a big question. And, you know, Order of Man does it well, You Do It Well, Kip does it well. The how to be a leader is so, it's not innate, we're not born with it.

• 1:13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I agree with that. We can learn it, we can develop it. Alan, I appreciate you, man. Thanks for joining me today. Guys, appreciate the great questions. Obviously, a lot of topics on fatherhood and leading our children well. Hopefully, Alan and I gave you some answers to consider, and ponder on, and implement, hopefully. And we'll be back on Friday. We're going to be talking about, on Friday, I've got a couple of topics, misogyny and misandry. We're going to talk about the differences between the two, which I'm kind of excited to dig into a little bit, because we don't talk about anything other than misogyny mostly. So I'll give you the other side as well. Check it out. Guys, until then, go out there, take action, and become a man you are meant to be.