BRENT OLIVER | You Are the Master of Your Fate

Most men will never come close to the kind of suffering Brent Oliver https://www.instagram.com/brentoliver541/?hl=en has lived through. And, that's exactly why this conversation matters. Today we're talking about the difference between a man who lets his circumstances define him and a man who decides, moment by moment, that he's still the one in control. You're going to hear what it actually looks like to rebuild a body and a mind from nothing, and why the story you tell yourself about your pain determines whether it makes you dangerous or makes you soft. This episode is about the strength to overcome the worst moments of your life and the idea that these moments aren't happening to you, they're shaping you into either a weapon or a victim. Brent breaks down why he refused to let anyone see weakness, why he refuses pain medication to this day, and why "effort equals outcome" isn't a slogan for him; it's the only reason he's alive. If you've ever used your circumstances as an excuse to coast, this conversation is going to make that a lot harder to do. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - Episode Introduction 01:04 - Connecting with Ryan 03:58 - The Tragic 1991 Motorcycle Accident 05:59 - The "N of 1" Medical Study 10:12 - Understanding Incomplete Quadriplegia 12:30 - Relearning Muscle Control & Function 15:08 - Rejecting Prognoses & Forging the Mind 16:49 - A Turning Point Night in the Hospital 21:15 - Victim Mentality vs. Becoming a Good Weapon 22:15 - True Strength & Modern Vulnerability 27:26 - Overcoming the Fear of Being a Burden 31:22 - What Separates Warriors from Victims 36:21 - Choosing Mindset Over Pain Medication 38:21 - Dealing with CRPS & Severe Phantom Pain 39:42 - Mind Control, Focus, and Detachment Techniques 46:14 - Finding a Path Forward Through the Outdoors 49:55 - Perspectives on Dark Moments & Hope 55:33 - Advocating for Outdoor Accessibility and the Disabled Community 01:04:33 - How the Artificial Larynx Works 01:07:17 - Brent Oliver Foundation & Closing Thoughts Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Most men will never even come close to the kind of pain and suffering that my guest today, Brent Oliver, has lived through. And that is exactly why I think this conversation matters. Today Brent and I are going to talk about the difference between a man who lets his circumstances define him, and a man who decides moment by moment, pain to pain, that he's still the one in control. And you're going to actually hear what it looks like to rebuild a body and a mind from nothing. And why the story you tell yourself about

• 0:37Speaker 00

  your pain really determines whether it makes you dangerous, or makes you soft and weak. This episode is about the strength to overcome some of the worst moments of your life. And the idea that these moments aren't happening to you, they're either shaping you into, as Brent might say, a weapon, or a victim. He breaks down why he refused to let anyone see weakness, why he also refuses pain medication, to this day, in the wake of severe pain and hardship. And why effort equals outcome, isn't just a slogan for him, it's the only

• 1:20Speaker 00

  reason that he is alive. So if you guys have ever used your circumstances, as I have, as an excuse to coast, this conversation might make that a lot harder to do.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up, one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man Podcast. I am your host and the founder of the Order of Man Movement, Ryan Mickler. I'm glad you're tuning in today. This might be one of my favorite conversations. And guys, I've been doing this for 11 years. I think I've interviewed over 630 very successful men at this point. And I think we've done over 1,600 podcast episodes. So the fact that this one stands out as one of my favorite might tell you to tune in and maybe take notes if you need to, at least pay attention. Very excited about this. I'll get to it in a minute. I'm also very excited about my

• 2:41Speaker 00

  friends over at Montana Knife Company. Now, I know that might be kind of an interesting segue when it comes to the severity of the conversation we're having today. But I want to let you know that incredible men are doing incredible things, regardless of their circumstances. And I'm not here to compare one circumstance to another. But what I am here to say, is that regardless of your circumstances, there's something you can do about it. And my friends, Josh Smith, Brandon Horaho, and the entire crew over at Montana Knife are doing something about great knife making and bringing back American manufacturing. Brent, my guest today, is an avid hunter. And although I don't know if he has a Montana Knife Company knife,

• 3:24Speaker 00

  which I am going to get to him, I think he would appreciate the fact that these guys are also doing some incredible things. Bringing back American manufacturing, making great knives, and getting us out into the woods for some tools that help. So if you're looking for a good tool, a good knife, as you go on a hunt this year, and I hope all of you are, every single one of you should be, then look no further than MontanaKnifeCompany.com. Make sure you do use the code ORDEROFMAN, all one word, ORDEROFMAN at checkout, and we'll make sure that you save some money when you do. MontanaKnifeCompany.com, use the code ORDEROFMAN. All right, let me introduce you to this guy. I mean, phenomenal. He called

• 4:06Speaker 00

  me a couple of weeks ago, and I was a little skeptical, you'll hear that in the podcast, for some reasons that you'll hear. But I'm glad I took the call. So in 1991, he was 20 years old. Brent Oliver broke his neck in a motorcycle accident. And it severed his trachea, and also his esophagus. And it left him without a pulse for about 20 minutes before, I think there was a family friend who performed CPR on him for literally two hours. And he ended up surviving as an incomplete quadriplegic, with a permanent airway left,

• 4:45Speaker 00

  breathing through essentially a hole in his neck, and operating on roughly 30% of the surviving spinal cord. His doctors said that he's got a prognosis that included a feeding tube, and a ventilator for the rest of his life. But he rejected that prognosis. And through the years of self-taught rehabilitation, teaching his own muscles to fire again by watching how people move, that's an interesting short story he shares in the podcast today. And then he eventually relearned to walk, split firewood, learn how to drive, and he rebuilt his body that no one expected would function again. And he did it all without

• 5:30Speaker 00

  ever taking a pain pill. Now today Brent holds multiple endurance and hunting world records. He showed me, he has the largest non-typical whitetail ever shot. I mean, you should see this thing. It's crazy. He showed it to me. He's got hunting records, the highest solo unassisted crossing of an inhabitable mountain pass in North America. And now he's the subject of a documentary and a feature film. He runs the Brent Oliver 541 Foundation, which supports families facing catastrophic injury. He's spearheading

• 6:12Speaker 00

  the Jubilee Lake Trail Restoration in Northeast Oregon, which is an effort that at this point is gaining national attention and bipartisan political support for improving outdoor access for the mobility limited. He's also currently working with medical researchers at St. Luke's Rehabilitation Center, who are studying him as a survivability outlier, I guess you could say. You can follow his story and support his work at BrentOliver541.org. And you can see, I was trying to be very sensitive in this conversation, but I also wanted to ask him real questions. So this is a, this is a real conversation that I'm proud to be able to bring to you guys.

• 6:56Speaker 00

  Brent, what's up, man? So glad that you reached out to me. What has it been? A week? Week and a half or so? We had joked about it. You freaked me out a little bit, man, when you called me. And, but I'm glad you did, because I'm very, very interested in your story. I know a lot of guys will be as well.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Thanks, Brent. It's good to meet you. I wasn't trying to sell you a computer upgrade, I can promise you that.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  That's what I thought at first. I'm like, okay, he's calling about my warranty on my vehicle, or, you know, like, computer upgrade, or something that I absolutely do not need. But we had a really compelling conversation. I was honest with you, you were honest with me. And I thought, all right, this is somebody we got to have a conversation with.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Well, it's good to meet you. I've been following you for a little while. And we have a lot of the same philosophies. You worded a little more eloquently than I do. But yeah, effort equals outcome in life. You kind of get what out of life what you put into it.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I'm sure also, it's probably interesting for you, because I'm sure you get treated differently when, I don't want to put words in your mouth. How do people treat you? Do they treat you like, like too delicately? Do they, I mean, I'm sure everybody's fairly respectful. But like, what is your perspective on how other people treat you?

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Probably the biggest problem, obviously, is the audio problem. It's just speaking differently. Like when you call someone on the phone, if someone's not as accepting of that as you, or when I called you, it's generally a completely different conversation. It's five to 15 seconds, and generally followed by an exclamation, and a click. So it's just a little tough to navigate the world when you, when everything's just a little different, you know, and people don't take enough time. Everybody's stuck in that 30, 30 second window,

• 9:03Speaker 02

  right? A meme or something's just a few seconds. So nobody gives two or three minutes to understand something before they move on. So that's probably been my biggest hang up, is just communication in general.

• 9:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's talk a little bit about how to be some of your injuries and the experiences that you've had that led to these circumstances. And then maybe we can talk about the technology that's allowed you to vocalize your thoughts and ideas and express your opinions. And then also, I mean, I've got a lot I want to talk with you about. So let's just start there. Why don't you tell me what happened? Because this is not something that you were born with. This, this is a tragic accident, if I understand correctly and if I remember right.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Yep. Yep. So in 1991, I was 20 years old. And you can kind of see behind me that junked a tree, and you see that cable wrapped around that tree. Well, somebody put a cable up around that tree 30, 40 years ago. And it was pretty low to the ground when they put it up, probably two, two and a half feet. Well, when the tree stopped growing and choked itself out, it was about five and a half, six feet off the ground. And I came underneath of it in the motorcycle and broke my neck at C3, C5, punctured both lungs, and severed my trachea and esophagus, and was found about 20 minutes after the accident, by an off-duty ER nurse. And she started CPR on me for 15, 20 minutes, and realized she couldn't

• 10:34Speaker 02

  sustain it. So she went to look for help. And found some friends of mine, family friends of mine, and started doing CPR on me for two hours. And it was an hour and a half. I was so discolored. I was blue. I'd been deceased for so long, and I was so discolored that this guy had known my family for four generations and worked on me for an hour and a half, and didn't know it was me. So it was a pretty horrific scene.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know how to put that really into. I just learned about the actual story about three years ago because after my injury, I just went back to living life. So the to hear for the first time something what you look like that is kind of a different thing to swallow. So that was that's something that's unique.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  I mean, that's really interesting. And not only is that unique that you survived because all odds would probably and likely say that at that point you would have passed away. It's pretty amazing that that individual administered CPR for an hour and a half, you said?

• 11:50Speaker 02

  It was two hours total. Yeah, they before the first responders arrived, I'm being studied by a hospital in Spokane, Washington, St. Luke's Medical Rehabilitation Center as an NF1 case, both on survivability and function. There's a couple of other things that they're studying, but they believe that I'm a NF1, which is a no medical outlier to measure you against your number one.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  Have they have they come to any sort of conclusion? Was there something different about your physiology, something about your your mindset, which be I would think would be infinitely harder to measure where they've said, Hey, I think this is why you survived when 99.9999% of other people would have would have died?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  You know, it's a the mind thing is unbelievably important. That's something that Dr. Ken Isaacs, neurologist on the team is interested in their they're interested in eye functioning and and burnout when you function at that high of level. And everybody's kind of questioning about why I function and how I function at the ability that I do. So it's been a learning curve. We're just starting down this road. July 22, I actually spoke at the hospital. We kind of talked about and started down this road at that point. I've so far we've

• 13:24Speaker 02

  got some baseline measurements with Dr. Chris Meadows and Gordon Lane at C5 Clinic. They're a performance clinic. Really, really good people. Dr. Greg Carter, the director of St. Luke's is involved in it as well. They had some big fires up in Spokane, so that kind of took some time to get that all under control and they had to take some patients from the VA hospital actually to to relieve the load because the fires were so bad. And so once this gets all gets sorted out, I'm sure we're going to get back on track. But right now, the forest fires and the emergencies kind of took precedence.

• 14:00Speaker 00

  What kind of what kind of testing are we talking about? Because I imagine it's pretty relatively easy to do EKGs and x-rays and MRIs and all the love. But what other tests outside of the realm of what we might expect are taking place for you?

• 14:19Speaker 02

  So so far, we've measured metaphors and metabolic stuff and just kind of established some baseline. They've got all my medical records to go through and we're still gathering all of that up. And that's a lot of medical records. So right now they're in the research and there there's a tremendous amount of data on me because they I go back every couple of years for a reevaluation. So I'm reevaluated every couple of years. And once they I've actually given them permission to kind of dig through everything. So these three guys are going to be able to get everything in one lump and look at it and really start

• 15:03Speaker 02

  to dissect, you know, pull things apart, maybe figure it out a little bit.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  What are they looking at? Are they looking at brain function? Are they at brain waves? I'm speaking out of complete ignorance here. Are they looking at?

• 15:17Speaker 02

  I, to be honest, I don't know. I never everything's on the table. To be honest, I don't know the direction they're going to go yet because they're still trying to kind of figure out what set me apart. I mean, I'm a incomplete Quadriplegia with a permanent airway. If you look that up, look at long term survivability, try to find another person that's 35 plus years and functioning in my level. The list is so short that I couldn't find others that are there's others that have lived with permanent airways and injuries, but just not that we've found that are in my my functioning level.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  You said I didn't I didn't know if I understood you correctly. You said an incomplete paraplegic and

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Quadriplegia.

• 16:06Speaker 00

  Quadruplegic and incomplete pair airway. Can you explain that a little bit more?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  So

• 16:12Speaker 00

  What does it mean by incomplete? What do you incomplete Quadriplegia? What does that mean?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Complete quadruplegic means

• 16:18Speaker 00

  Oh, complete, complete.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. And incomplete means that you're you still have some sensation. You still have some feeling. You're not a complete is not a complete injury. The cord's not severed. You're not is an incomplete. Mine was incomplete. My spinal cord was really well, it's a big serenex in it. For lack of a better word, it's a giant split. If your if your wife has long hair and she's got a ponytail and you grab the bottom of that ponytail and you stuck your hand in the between the rubber band and the your hand that's division would be a serenex. You divided that that gap. So I have a very large one

• 17:00Speaker 02

  in my spinal cord and that's causing some issues. I've got after my injury, I have 30% of my spinal cord that survived. So everything I've done has been on about 30% of my cord. And that's another thing that they're trying to figure out is how I'm able to do what I do. Last last May, I said potentially set multiple world records by driving a wheeled vehicle over the highest inhabitable pass in North America, solo, unassisted, without oxygen in the snow. And they're still scratching their head about that one. There's a guy with a permanent airway, which is a open airway. You can't breathe through your nose or your mouth. Some some folks can they're they're connected, but I'm not. I'm completely severed. So I

• 17:45Speaker 02

  breathe through a hole in my neck. And with my C3 C5 injury, it's high enough that it really affects your respiratory system. So doing the things that I did shouldn't be possible, I guess.

• 17:59Speaker 00

  So in layman terms with your with your I guess partially paralyzed, for lack of a better term, maybe I don't know if that's the right term. But if if I were jokingly, and I'm not trying to be insensitive, but if I were jokingly to take a lighter and like light it under your foot, you could feel that, but you might not be able to move your foot. Am I understanding you correctly?

• 18:21Speaker 02

  So my my injuries are there. You have loss of sensation, obviously. Our part of that is some numbing spots. You just don't get all the feeling back in your body. But when I was originally injured, I would have a muscle spasm that would cause something to flinch, some random thing that would just fire and flinch. And one day I figured out that I could replicate that flinch. And once I figured out how to do it, I literally was just focused on watching people move in the hospital. I would watch. I loved summer because people were shorts and I could physically see your leg move.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  You know, your calf, your mid, I could see the quad. And I figured out how to make my toe wiggle. And

• 19:12Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  Once, once I did that, I literally just repeated that on the rest of my limbs until I could get more movement back and eventually got to where I'm at. Not to just skip ahead through that is a huge understatement because what it took to do this was astronomically difficult to say the least.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I obviously I can't. I mean, I can can assume, but I can't even imagine the I mean, if I want my move, I have the luxury of being able to tell it to I don't even have to tell it to move. It just moves, right? Like it's

• 19:53Speaker 02

  It's an arm switch. It's an arm switch. Just imagine it below the injury that that you just shut the switch off. There's there's nothing.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  That's what it's like. What was was imagine there were a lot of frustrations and potentially tear filled lonely moments. I'm just trying to put myself to some to the extent that I can in your shoes. What what were some of the negative thoughts that ran through your mind? Because obviously, you're a very optimistic person. I imagine, at least anecdotally, that part of your recovery is your level of optimism and mindset and the way you viewed people's quads and calves to see if you could simulate it. But what were some of the the lonely nights, the hard nights, the frustrations, the fear, the tears, the sorrow, etc.?

• 20:49Speaker 02

  There there's more of that than I could tell you. But

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Ask anybody if they ever saw it.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Ask anybody in my circles that were there. Ask anybody if I ever showed weakness or let the world see that. That's mine to control, that's mine to share. And. I'm.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  They, they told me that the prognosis was not good. You know, you're gonna be a quadriplegic, you're gonna eat through a feeding tube the rest of your life. You're gonna be out to a breathing machine the rest of your life. There's all these things, these prognoses that they gave me. And. When you start to realize that a prognosis is a doctor's best guess and not a definition, it's not gonna define your life. I mean. Nobody ever built the past, right? But they can build a future. And once you kind of wrap it around forward movement and progression and. I really didn't share those moments.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  With anybody, I had a lot of dark moments. I had a.

• 22:07Speaker 02

  A nurse one night. Uh. Actually tried to take my life about 1:30 in the morning. It was a. There's a documentary about my life, which we're not gonna go public with because there's a feature film and being talked about. So. The documentary is kind of on the side burner, but it talks a little bit about that night and kind of what happened and. She had come in and they would suction out. I was split open from the bottom of my chin to where your sternum meets right here in the middle. Because this was all reconstructed, right? I had all this reconstructive surgery to get my throat put back together and esophagus put back together and. They had to let it heal from the inside out.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  So I had this breathing fixture down here where my Drake is. And they would suction that out every couple hours. And. This old gal would come in and she's an older lady and she'd come in and. Get down to my bronchial tubes and it just hurt like hell when she did it because she'd go past the fixture. And it really hurt and I asked her to please be gentle. Those were the exact words that I said. And she got in my face and said some derogatory things just right in my face. I can still, so I'm literally can still smell this lady's breath. And she jerked that tube out of my throat and says, "What's that, you little effort?" And kind of trashed the room a little bit. And. Security.

• 23:34Speaker 02

  Went down and it got in my mom. After this has kind of transpired, I don't want to talk too much about that moment because it's gonna be in the movie and the film, but. It.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  When you realize how powerful and how much control you have over your life. You. You have to resign your last breath.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  It's not. When push comes to shove, the fight that's in you and what's inside of you, you have no idea what that is until you're put in a situation like that. And it kind of unlocked something in me. And the fact that.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  I knew that I was the master of my own ship and I was controlling my own life. I was at that point completely paralyzed, couldn't move, couldn't yell, couldn't do anything. I mean, this lady could have just put a bag over my head and that'd have been the end of it. But.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  The moment changed me when I realized that. I was in control. I was in control of my breathing, I was in control of the blood coming out of my neck. I literally could just exhale hard and clear the, clear the blood out so I wasn't drowning. And over the next couple of minutes, I figured out a breathing rhythm that worked. I'd breathe in slow and exhale hard and get that out. But it was just.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  A powerful moment that. And. Put me on my course of.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Don't.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  Don't think somebody else was gonna come save you. The person that's looking in the mirror every day is the person that's gonna be there every time for you. And if you don't respect that person.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  That is just a sensitive subject for me.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  I, I mean, I imagine.

• 25:34Speaker 00

  Would you say that you're? I don't know if this is too far of a stretch or making light of that situation. I can't even, I can't even fathom. Would you say that you're grateful for that moment or would you say something else about that moment?

• 25:49Speaker 02

  When do you think in history and you're a smart guy? When do you think in history or in somebody's lives that lessons are learned? Do you think that they're learned? A hundred percent. In the worst, darkest, crappiest times of your life is when you're forged. You're. And I use this analogy a lot. There's a lot of people that have a lot of really rough life, right? They're but end of the forge and they're beat on, they're shaped, they're beat on, they're shaped. But the more of those people are forged and the more of those people trudge through life, the harder, harder, the sharper they become.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  And when you don't let that drag you into a dark place, you don't become a. Bad weapon. You become the good weapon. And.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  I think a lot of people just need to understand that perspective is a lot of this stuff. If you.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  It's just that you need to, you need to just take a little bit of time and, and. Perspective is a lot of it. You're in control of your destiny. Life's a choice.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  What, what do you mean by bad weapon versus good weapon? What does that mean?

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Some people think of injury like this and turn it into something that's. Not good. Something that they, they've got their reason now to build their victim mentality or their struggle paths, whatever you want to call it. They've got this thing, right? They're going through the same forge you're going through, they're going through the same struggles that you're going through. But the way.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  That you direct your life and your energy and what you. Put into this thing. It.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Really starts to manifest down the road and you're not gonna see it immediately. But in life, I can tell you that. Effort equals outcome. And if you're not. If you're not getting the outcome you want in life, it's because you're probably putting effort into the wrong spot or you're not putting enough effort into what you need to be putting effort into.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  I think that's the crux of it.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  What's your? It does make sense. Yeah, it does. What's your take on the, the, the modern version of masculinity? Excuse me, not masculinity, but vulnerability. And maybe let me give some, some context to this because you talked about.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  Not letting other people see that, not even letting yourself be exposed to that negativity. But I think there's this modern concept of vulnerability that says, we're just gonna air out all of our dirty laundry just for the sake of airing it out. I would loosely define that as the modern version of vulnerability. I'm really curious what you think about that word and the concept of it.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  I think that. The definition of a, of a. Man if we're, that's what we're talking about here is the definition of a, a man, you know, in my life. We, my granddad, you're probably, I don't know, you're mid 40s. How old are you? Somewhere around there.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Forty-five, yeah, forty-five.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  So you, you probably grew up with a granddad that was the greatest generation. And then your parents are the, obviously in between Gen X and the greatest generation. So we grew up with a little bit of old styles of influence, a little bit of a. What a tough life forges as a strong man. And then a good life in some cases forged a little bit of a weaker man. And.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  I think those. Lessons just are not.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  Passed on like they were when we were younger. We, we learned from people that. Didn't. Make excuses, they produced results. And instead of. Instead of complaining about it, they got up every day and, and kept trying every day.

• 29:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's really.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  A good question because it's. I'm a little bit old school. I don't think that. If you're carrying a burden. Letting somebody else, letting the world see that burden and showing that weakness or opening up that part of yourself to the world. Isn't always a good thing to do. It's.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  I've never gotten anywhere in life by being a victim. Um, in my career, I did very, very well when I had to prove I worked with a bunch of tough dudes in the concrete industry and uh, you had to prove yourself and I never really understood that mentality because I never really let myself get into it. I don't, I'm, maybe I'm a poor person to ask about this because I'm the, I'm the opposite of that. I think, I think that you have to portray what you want to be in life. If you want to be weak, you're going to portray your weak. If you want to be strong, you're going to portray your strong. I don't think

• 31:09Speaker 02

  there's a fine line between being insensitive about things, right? I'm a very, I'm a very sensitive person. I'm a very empathetic person. I have a charity that, that's what we do is a 501(c)(3). We help people after catastrophic injuries get back on life and to see families go through this and to see some of them husbands go through this and I kind of shakes them up. I just try to kind of bring them back to get a foundation set underneath their feet. Pick them up and let them know it's going to be okay, but it's when a child's injured or somebody's injured, it changes everybody's life. Not that person's life, but the caregivers, the family, eh,

• 31:51Speaker 02

  from everybody in that environment's lives changed. So I tried to instill strength and not weakness.

• 32:01Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, I, I will tell you, Brent, um, I've talked with a lot of men and I'm, I'm paying you lip service when I say this. You're, you're, you're likely one of the most assertive people that I've had the privilege of having a conversation with. And, and I say that because it's really easy to be courageous or bold or assertive when everything is going well. In fact, I wouldn't even call it courage or assertiveness or boldness, but uh, when you called me, I was a little taken back. I didn't even know how you got my number, but you figured it out and that alone, I was like, okay, like, who is this guy? Uh, you got my personal cell phone number and I even asked you, I'm like, how'd you

• 32:45Speaker 00

  get my number? Uh, and you told me, you're like, hey, I'm pretty relentless when it comes to this. I can't remember the exact words you used, but um, it, it's, it's pretty inspiring. I, I do have to ask, and again, I'm asking you questions. I'm not trying to treat you like sensitively. You're, you're a grown man, you know, I, I, I'm trying to be respectful of what you're dealing with, but also I want to ask you real questions. Do you ever feel like you're a burden to the people around you? I hope that comes out the way that I intend it from a level of curiosity.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  It, so you stumbled onto something. So this is my, this is what, when I was injured, I, my mom noticed that I was pretty positive, you know, I just like, was always positive. I was smiling. I was happy. I was not put out or depressed and uh, someone, I think it was my mom had come in and asked me, what, what are you scared of? And I said, the two things that scare me are cancer and being a burden. I said, I don't want to be a burden and uh, I, I strive to not be a burden. Maybe that's what's driven me all my life, but I'm,

• 34:02Speaker 02

  I'm a bit of an overachiever when it comes to stuff. I just, I'm relentless. They, I started on a mission to, as a pilot project up here at Jubilee Lake in Northeastern Oregon. There's a hard surface trail that we're refurbishing and everybody was kind of scratching their heads when I came up with this plan and uh, I think there was a lot of skepticism, but as of Monday, that pilot project officially starts. Western States Caterpillar is a sponsor. There's a lot of big players that are sponsoring this thing and I'm even going to go back to Washington DC and speak to members of Congress and lawmakers, the 21st and the 25th of September about all this. So I've,

• 34:43Speaker 02

  as relentless as I was to find your cell phone number, I've been as relentless to drive change.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  All right, men, I know you've been enjoying this one. I'm going to step away from the conversation just for a brief minute. Um, I need you at the war room. It's going to be held on September 16th at 8:00 PM Eastern and we're going to be talking about the enforcer, the rescuer and the victim. I think it would have been very easy for Brent to fall into that victim mentality, but clearly just through the podcast and the conversation we've had, he is not. But if you've ever felt stuck playing in one of those three roles, the enforcer, the rescuer, or the victim in your relationships, your family, even just in your own head, then don't skip this call. Okay, guys, we're going to break down how to recognize which

• 35:31Speaker 00

  role that you default to under pressure. That's what really matters, under pressure. And more importantly, how to just get out of it for good. So again, it's happening September 16th, 8:00 PM Eastern. It's free. It's available. I'm going to talk about some of the programs that we, we run, but Kip Sorenson, my good friend and co-host is going to lead that one. I'll be there as well. And you are not going to want to miss this because if you want to be a better leader in your family, your business, your neighborhood, your home, wherever, then you got to get out of these roles of victim, rescuer and enforcer. So make sure you check it out. Head to orderofman.com/warroom. That's orderofman.com/warroom. Again, it's free to join. We're doing it every single

• 36:13Speaker 00

  month, but you've got to show up and you've got to be there live. So I hope to see you there. Again, orderofman.com/warroom. You can RSVP right after the conversation. Let's finish it up with Brent. I mean, clearly, clearly that is uh, that is happening and I, I appreciate you sharing that. Um, it gives us a perspective, you know, like my, my setbacks are somebody turns me down to come on a podcast. You know, my setbacks are I didn't uh, you know, maybe I lost my cool with my kids. Uh, my setback

• 36:51Speaker 00

  is um, you know, I, I, you know, uh, didn't show up fully the way I should have or maybe mistreated somebody. I, I think my, and I don't, we don't need to compare, but I think my setbacks pale in comparison, which should give us all hope. Like if I can do this in spite of everything that's going on, I can treat people kindly. I can be patient. I can overcome somebody declining on the podcast. Like that seems pale in comparison to what you're dealing with.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  It's all about perspective. It's uh, I have a mission. I have a goal that I want to achieve before I do give my last breath back and uh, I drive pretty hard on that goal. The, it's a, every day the starting line gets a little further away. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's whether the grinding spinal cord every morning you wake up, it's a little bit different, little bit different day. It's a little bit further, little more effort to get to that starting line, but I'm nowhere near done. And Proverbs 327 says, if you have the ability to do something for others, you should. And uh,

• 38:11Speaker 02

  I still do. So I'm, it's kind of what I'm doing and I'm not out here bragging or, or trying to be boisterous. I'm just going to share you the facts. The facts of my life are going to come out. You're going to see at the level which I've regained function and what I've done in life. And it's just proof it can be done. It's, it's a not, I fail a lot. That's why I'm good at stuff because I fail a lot. You know, fail at something a couple hundred times and you figure out a way to make it work, you know, a couple hundred ways it didn't, you know, it just makes you that much better.

• 38:50Speaker 00

  I'm sure in, in all of the conversations and the charitable work and nonprofit work that you're doing, you've met incredible men and women with catastrophic injuries and mental illness and disease and everything else. What do you think in everything that you've seen, not only with your own experience, but others, separates those who rise above like yourself and strive to do better and, and be a good, you know, force of good in the world versus those who potentially cower, who slink away into obscurity, who throw themselves the, the pity party

• 39:31Speaker 00

  and turn themselves into the perpetual victim. What, what do you think separates the two?

• 39:36Speaker 02

  So I think a lot of it, and then St. Luke's and I have been talking a lot about this, but I think a lot of it has to do with the initial.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Prognosis, if you will, when, when somebody comes in with a catastrophic injury and the family's in there and they're praying to God for a miracle and the doctor walks in and that's the second person they're waiting for to hear that there's a miracle from, they're praying to God, but doctor's right there, you know? And the conversation's steered into a way that isn't uplifting, like, "You're gonna be a quadriplegic." This is like exactly what they did to me. So, I think that if you, in today's society, everyone's so broken and so entrapped with

• 40:26Speaker 02

  the easy way out, that the words that are said in that room when you tell somebody that there's this, this, and this, and it's all negative, and there's nothing that's lifting anyone up, you know? That sets a tone and that starts a person down a path. You, you're either a victim or a warrior. And I think that those initial conversations are what separate the two. I think if you plant a seed in a weak mind, it grows well. Does that make sense?

• 41:01Speaker 00

  It does. Who are the people that spoke into you? Cause I'm, there was plenty of, uh, victimhood thinking, I'm, I'm sure, you can, you can correct me if I'm wrong, and there's plenty of doubt and fear and worry. Who are the people in your life who planted those seeds of growth as opposed to the seeds of, of doubt and fear?

• 41:23Speaker 02

  To be honest with you, when you go into a doctor, they're always gonna give you the worst version of whatever, right? This is what's happening. I've been told I'm gonna be dead for whatever reason, more than once after this, through this 35-year problems we've had, you know? This life, there's been problems, there's been times I've been told where, you know, make your arrangements or things aren't looking good, and I've always rallied back, but there'll come a time where I won't. And I think that I just know that I beat it, and I don't need anybody to tell me that I'm gonna do it again.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  I just, I know what it's like to come back from being dead, and I feel myself going that other direction now, but I'm nowhere near the end. So, it's gonna be a while. They, they can think what they wanna think, and I'm telling you, it's gonna be a while. We should have a conversation in 10 years. How about that? Let's put that on the schedule. Let's put another podcast in 10 years. Let's visit again.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  I would love to. I'd love to get to know you more, outside of the next 10 years, I'd love to get to know you more. Um, you know, with, one thing that came to mind is, with you being, I mean, correct me if you would say this differently, but for all intents and purposes, dead for two hours, it sounds like.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Well, 20 minutes, twice.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  Say it again.

• 42:59Speaker 02

  Uh, 20 minutes, twice with no CPR, but I couldn't sustain myself, so there was just CPR performed for two hours. I, literally my trachea tube was a lump in the side of my neck. I have the doctors that have, have heard this and talked to the people that did the rescue are now thinking, they don't even know how they got oxygen to me. So it's just this crazy turn of events, and they did CPR in a very weird position. They didn't lay me out, they left me alone, and I think that that, that's why they were able to do it, was because my head and everything was conged in a odd position, and it allowed that airway on that side to be opened up.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  That's the only thing I can think of, it's just, it's kinda gruesome, but it's, yeah.

• 43:48Speaker 00

  Is there, is there any sort of, um, outside of your, your, your, you know, physical capacity to speak, and I'm sure you had a lot of reconstructive surgery on your sternum, it sounds like, and your throat, and esophagus, and your airway? Is there any sort of lasting, um, brain damage, brain issues that you have, have had to overcome over the past decades?

• 44:12Speaker 02

  My wife would say yes, every Tuesday, I forget to take out the garbage, but it's, yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  Every wife would say yes about her husband, so you're not special there, okay?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  So, uh, that's something we're checking into, it's, uh, I don't, I, after my wreck, they had actually done some reconstructive surgery before they transformed me to the university hospital, and I got an infection and thrown up, and part of what caused that was pain medicines. So like, I refused to, and pain medicine, they would not let them give me anything from that point on. So all, all the years that I've gone through this, all the surgeries, everything, I've never taken a Painville or anything. So, that takes a lot of focus to not, uh, to hide that from the world, it takes a lot of focus, the pain's still there and it hurts like hell, but what you let the world see

• 45:06Speaker 02

  is a, is a different story. And, uh, that, that's been a little bit rough, to be honest, it's getting a little rougher. And, uh, yeah.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  What's, what's painful to you? I, I know when we initially talked, uh, you said that even just the act of, of speaking, and I'm very curious about your speaking apparatus that you have. What is it? And, and by the way, I thank you for coming on, cause I know this is probably laboring for you based on our previous conversation, but what, what kind of pain do you experience? What specifically are you dealing with and wrestling with that you're not willing to take pain medication for?

• 45:47Speaker 02

  I won't take it for anything, but the biggest, biggest thing is the, the nerve pain as things deteriorate, and the, the phantom pain, it's, uh, CRP, you can look it up, it's a chronic pain, and on the Baggs and Pain Index, it's regarded as one of the highest form, forms of pain measured. And it's just a-

• 46:12Speaker 00

  Phantom pain is?

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a CRP, C, C R B, as I think it is, it's a chronic nerve condition. Anyway, it, uh, it's a burning sensation, for lack of a better word, that is kinda-

• 46:29Speaker 00

  In your throat? Do you feel it in your throat?

• 46:31Speaker 02

  No, no, it's on your, it's on your body, it's on your skin, it's just, like if a light breeze blows across you, it sets it off, it's just miserable. So it's just, it's something you gotta manage, and it ain't easy, cause that, that is like no joke, it's like getting burnt. You see my face go white, you know that it's, I'm fighting, that's the only thing I can mask, is when I do, when it hits me, I can keep talking, I lose my train of thought just a bit, but my face looks, or to turn a little white.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  Hmm. How do you manage it? What, what do you do? Is it mantras? Is it affirmations? Is it just gritting? Is it, like, what is it you do?

• 47:13Speaker 02

  I learned to, I learned to focus and I learned to meditation, believe it or not, and I learned that, that I could get in a situation where I could get my body to kinda can calm down a little bit, if I, for lack of a better word, let my mind drift and kinda let, I disengage, for lack of a better word, and, uh, it's something I learned staring at a spot in the ceiling in the hospital when I was, when I was fighting this, after those surgeries, it was pretty brutal. And, uh, some of them were seven hours, and how to not take pain medicine after those things is, when your throat's been reconstructed, it's not easy.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  So it, uh, it was a long learned, um, and I, I've been asked to explain it, and I just don't know how to explain it to people, it's just self thought, a long learned, self thought response. I just can focus on a spot and let my mind drift, and then let's, uh-

• 48:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like the idea of detachment, you know, where you're detaching from that. It's an exercise in something I think only humans can do as a species, which is pretty incredible. The fact that we can be aware and project ourselves in different places in time just by thinking is, I think uniquely human, which is pretty powerful if you utilize it correctly. And I'm sure I'm not even tapping into the availability that you've happened to.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  So why would let me down this old path this back? There's nothing on DVD back in the 90s, right? All these old Don Joes dying Donaghy was even on back then, maybe. But anyway.

• 48:58Speaker 00

  Jerry Springer, maybe?

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Before Springer, I think, but back then it was one of those. Don Joes was talking just about that very thing about manifesting the opposite. Like when you think about negative, think about negative and you're gonna feel negative. When you think about being sick, you are sick. And that's what started me thinking about that is when I started listening to them and realizing that maybe if you did the opposite, maybe something else would happen. So I started really focused on that and that's what got me looking at that. Literally, there was a spot on the wall on that old ceiling, those old tile ceilings. I'm sure you've seen them in hospitals where the two foot by four foot swing dial.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  There was a spot on that that I just stared at and realized after about five minutes of my body didn't hurt anymore. Or not as bad, like I could physically feel my attention in my body just kind of relax. And it was a weird sensation because I've not.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  As an incomplete Quadriplegia, you're not supposed to be able to like feel relaxed. But I could just, I don't know how to describe it to you. It's just that I felt like somebody took a weight off of me. And I fell asleep shortly after, which was something I didn't do a lot of. And I remember waking up afterwards and I thought, man, did I just dream about that? It was like, it was so surreal what had happened that I just, I could distinguish if I dreamed about it or not. And after I woke up and got a little less groggy, I realized that what I had done. And I started trying to do it again. And later that evening I did them, I was able to do it again.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  It was just about dark and this nurse would come in and check on me every night. And she was the sweetest lady and she'd stand there with me and rub my head. And I'd just stare at that spot and pretty soon I'd be asleep and that's, that's the routine I got in. And I say, now I'm able to do it in my waking hours. I don't have to do it close to bedtime or any of that. But for the longest time I could only do it before I was gonna go relax or before bed. I couldn't get there unless I had time to unwind or wind down. But I'm getting good enough at it now that I can do it a little easier.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Do you feel like in those moments that you focused on something in particular? For example, either, either like that spot on the ceiling or a vision of what you wanted to do in the future? Or did you let your mind just wander and navigate where it wanted to go?

• 51:48Speaker 02

  Everything is about, my friends always make fun of me about this, but anytime I say, I'm gonna go do something, I always say we like, let's go, or I'm always including somebody else because I.

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a weird question is it's, yeah, I don't know. I've just never thought of myself as.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  I don't know, it's tough for me to answer that one. I mean.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm always curious about that because, I mean, look, we hear to a lesser extent, things like box breathing and meditation and visualization. And I think all these practices have merit. But I personally, I can't speak for everybody else. I personally have not found something that allows me to really get into the, this stage that it seems like you have. And maybe it's the severity of what you might be dealing with that that makes the difference? Or maybe I'm just doing it wrong. I don't know.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Well, and I think, I think it has a lot to do with this, the state you're in when you're trying to solve the problem. You know what I mean? When you're, when you're low enough, when there's no hope and there's nothing, you know what? You're at the bottom, the only place that goes up. So maybe it's just from a different perspective of, of injury severity of injury or, or

• 53:25Speaker 02

  where I was at, I don't know, but it's just, it's just a different.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  That is really difficult. There's been other people that have asked me that same question. I've never been able to answer it because it's something that I, I just do. I don't know how to.

• 53:42Speaker 02

  You, you just decide that you're not gonna be negative. I'm just not, there's always a path forward in life. There's always a, if you're not, if you have to reach down in the room you're in, you're in the wrong room. You need to always be reaching up. You're never gonna get growth. You're never gonna do more. You're never gonna achieve unless you're moving forward. And I guess that's kind of a little bit of it in a nutshell. You've got to find a path forward. You gotta find a way, what, what are your choices? Play there and breathe through do. I mean, the reason I'm better is because I thought about going fishing and doing things with my friends and living a normal life every day.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  It's, I didn't buy into the whole, you need to be in a chair, you know, you need to have special utensils to eat.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  I didn't buy into any of that. I didn't accept it and I didn't want it. And I fought every day to stay away from it. If you physically, as you get to know me and if we get to talk personally and stuff and you understand what I did to do this, this is a multi-hour conversation. This isn't something that we can talk about in an hour. But what I did in the mountains with a chainsaw rebuilding my life and learning how to walk again and learning those struggles and figuring it out. Those, those years were what taught me that there's not an obstacle that you can't get around. There's, it's always a solvable problem. Whether it was starting with a chainsaw as an incomplete Quadriplegia

• 55:17Speaker 02

  or trying to figure out a way to get a piece of firewood in the back of your pickup. It started out as a single piece of firewood and turned into hundreds of cords of firewood being cut every year. To where I was a fairly.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  An ambulatory, for lack of a better word, person I couldn't get around very well. When I got done cutting firewood, I can almost run. I mean, I'm a very high functioning person. If I don't want you to know that I'm disabled, you're not gonna know that I can. It hurts to do it, but I can walk fairly normally and which is the small end. But you never know walking by me that I was an incomplete Quadriplegia with a perimeter doorway.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  It's about perception. No one in life is gonna give you a chance if you're not gonna put yourself out there. If you're in the kind of life as a victim, everybody judges you. I guess if I'm not saying this very eloquently, but everybody's judging you. And when you're disabled, you're a liability, especially in the workforce, especially in construction, right? So if you show weakness, if you show that you're less than the person you're working with, you're not gonna get anywhere. You have to prove yourself. You have to prove more than anybody that you're able to do that. And as you saw from some of my information that I searched, I got pretty high level in, in that career.

• 56:49Speaker 00

  You, you talk about being in a place of no hope. And I imagine you've had conversations with some people who have been there. And I've often thought to myself, you know, that's the lowest point you can be is when there's no hope of recovery or no hope of a better life or anything like goals, dreams, visions, ambitions. I mean, I think that's the point at which people kill themselves, quite frankly. Again, as sensitive as I can say, but I want to ask you real questions. Have you ever thought about killing yourself?

• 57:23Speaker 02

  No, because I made a promise to somebody that I left. She came in and asked me before she, my grandmother, she came in and asked me about this very question. And I kind of chuckled and I said, Grandma, I promise you that'll never happen. And I've had some horribly rough days. I mean, it, it would be unbelievably easy to take that route. But what people need to realize that a bad moment is, look, a moment in the dictionary. A moment is a fleeting thing. It passes and there's good moments and there's bad moments. And you don't know what a good moment is until you experience a bad moment because you can't. You can't have one without the other.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  And doing something rash in a bad moment, no matter how bad that moment is, it's just a moment.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  There's no path forward if you, if you're not there to be on the path. I just think that before somebody does that, before they really get into the situation where it's that bad, you just need to look at this and the light that it is, it's a bad moment. And you're in this moment because of choices or circumstances or whatever happened. But it's a moment and will pass. There, there's always somebody worse than you in this world. There's always somebody that's got it worse. And if you don't believe them, maybe go spend a little time in the hospital, look around a little bit.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Do you ever feel like, this one's a tough question. I mean, you've encountered and worked with so many people that are dealing with physical ailments that we, that a person like me cannot even imagine.

• 59:18Speaker 00

  I'm trying to think about how to word this. Do you ever feel like you're an anomaly? And other people that are in similar circumstances, situations, cannot do what you've done? And if that's the case, do you feel like you're potentially discounting their physical ailment? When you speak about mindset and these sorts of things? I hope, I hope I'm communicating that correctly.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  No, I think you're, no, but I think you're on a good point here. Because not everybody's dealt the same cards. Not everybody can do what I did. Not everybody's gonna have the recovery that I did. But there's always a path forward. Look at some of the people that were the greatest folks on the, look at Stephen Hawking. Case in point. That guy couldn't do anything. But he had a brilliant mind and lived a full life, productive life, member of society. When you

• 1:00:18Speaker 02

  whether you're disabled, able-bodied, when you build value in yourself, people wait to hear what you've got to say. If you don't,

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  if you wanna

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  be impactful in life and be more in life,

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  you need to

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  value yourself more. I don't know how to word that without, I really don't know how to word that. But you need to be in a different mindset. It's not an influencer mindset, right? You're not an influencer. You need to be a productive member of society. You're bringing something tangible. You're, look at what the guy did. I mean, Jeez Louise, most, one of the most brilliant minds in history. I just don't know

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  how a person can find a path forward, just, just based off of his story. I mean, there's always a path forward.

• 1:01:15Speaker 00

  I mean, I imagine it's like any, um, again, I don't, like, I'm, I'm just trying to be sense, like, able-bodied person, I don't know if that's offensive to you or not, but I imagine it's, it's similar to any, I'll just use that term, able-bodied person who might be good at sales and another person might be good at baking and another person might be good at public speaking and somebody else might be good at sewing or hunting or, you know, fill in the blank. But we all have something to offer the world.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, everybody does. And it, uh, it's important to remember that just because your life changed doesn't mean that you might not be able to offer what you once were able to offer. But there's always a path forward. It's about perspective. If you don't have the want to be more or do more, then you're not gonna do that. I mean, it's just, it's just simple. But if you look at longevity after spinal cord injury or, you know, the life expectancy of some of these folks after the injury. And then you look at the choices that they, that some of them made and it's not all, all of them made. But that, that mental state that we talked about earlier and the, and the

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  possibilities that they might've had to do more were squashed early. So they kinda gave up on life. And when you give up on life, no matter what your age are or what your ailment is, you just don't, you don't live long. You know, something digs you down.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  So it's just, yeah, it's just,

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  it really,

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  it's important just to not

• 1:03:01Speaker 02

  to look, to look at these folks and look at,

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  but I mean, if you put this into perspective, there's 45.8 million disabled Americans as of the 2044 census. That's more people than the entire population of Canada. But everything they do, they're preyed upon from durable medical goods to access to the outdoors, access to travel. It's a industry that people make money off of disability and meaningful access to our trails and our outdoor systems. You know, the things that allow somebody to feel good enough to go spend that weekend with their friends at the lake. It's disabled or get outdoors or the connection to nature. Just being able to move around and have something to look forward to, I think is a crucial part of

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  fighting, combating that want to just give up and take the short road. Suicide's a big problem and just whether you use a gun or you just give up, it's the same result. And I, I just,

• 1:04:08Speaker 02

  if we can help with access and we can help with just lifting these folks up, but why aren't we doing more?

• 1:04:18Speaker 00

  How do you, if, if you could teach me and other people listening, how would you tell me to treat individuals like yourself? Those who might have even more difficult situations, circumstances and maybe less than? How would you teach people like me to treat you? Not only physically, but mentally, conversationally, et cetera?

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  I, I'm really

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  don't

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  even identify, I mean, I'm disabled, obviously, but I don't even use that word other than I have to for these kind of things. But

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  when you consider yourself disabled, I don't care if you're in a wheelchair or not, when you consider yourself disabled, then you're disabled. Right?

• 1:05:06Speaker 02

  It's about perspective. I just keep saying that, repeating that, but it's, it's, it's so much is when you see yourself as though

• 1:05:14Speaker 02

  you're, that's what you become. And I think it's important to just make sure that

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  yeah, it's important to just make sure that we take the time to recognize it when you walk into a restaurant. I use this analogy every so often, but somebody in a wheelchair comes in or somebody with cerebral palsy or something that makes them a little bit different. And people form a 15-foot bubble around that person. They don't make eye contact. It's like they don't exist. It's like a void in space. I just think that putting the humanity back in humanity is not a bad thing, you know, saying hello or, or treating them normal. They're normal. They're, they're just, body's just a little damaged and

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  we just need to recognize that there's, it's not a completely separate class of people. They're, they're still humans.

• 1:06:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, I've got a, um, I've got a friend who has a son who has a mental and nervous system disorder.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  And I'm a very curious person, which I think might subject me to being offensive at times. I'm not trying to be. I'm just very curious about like everything. I'm just curious about it. And I started asking him about his son and he stopped me. And he said, hey, I really, he, he said, I really appreciate this conversation. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, I'm just curious about your son. He's like, nobody ever talks to me about my son. Nobody asks, asks me questions. I was at, cause he was a young man at the time. I was asking about his attraction to girls, like his mental development. And my buddy's like, nobody ever asked me. They asked me about my other kids, but they never asked me about him.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  And he was actually really grateful. And then I had a really, actually a really cool interaction last year with his son. I was out bow hunting and I'm, and I've got my bow case laid out on the table. And this young man comes up and he shuts my bow case, like I'm getting ready and shuts my bow case. And I'm like, hmm, what is he doing? So I open it up and he looks at me, I'm not kidding. He looks at me and he shuts it again. And I was like, are you teasing me? And he just laughs. I'm like, you're teasing me. He's like, yeah. I'm like, okay. Like, that was a really cathartic moment for me that I think a lot of people just often overlook or just ignore, like you said, create that 15-foot bubble. We don't talk about it. We don't address it. We don't deal with it.

• 1:07:49Speaker 00

  When I think people just wanna be treated like anybody else, I imagine.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, we just wanna be normal, right? Life was a freedom of pursuit, life, freedom and happiness. That's all. All we want is the same opportunities. Uh, the outdoors and the meaningful access stuff that we're doing is a big part of that. The infrastructure's really failed around outdoor access. And that's part of the reason we're going back to Washington DC with the Blue Ribbon Coalition to talk about the outdoor Americans with the Disabilities Act a little bit. And, uh, talk about some of the problems we see is, is folks that are a little bit more mobility challenged, maybe. And access and it's something that's actually protected, meaningful access is protected.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Under the 1973 Rehabilitation Act, section 504.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  Is supposed to be practical and not theoretical. And it's, uh, kinda fallen short in our public spaces a little bit. Some of the accessibility trails that were meant for meaningful access have degraded and fallen apart. And that's a pretty big part of what we're doing now is the outdoors. I'll tell me. I mean, the out, the reason I can walk and do what I can do is because I've spent the time outdoors. They were not all good days. There were a lot of really miserable days, but. That really healed me. I don't know, even as an understatement, those few years where I just focused on every day, trying to do more, trying to be better, more movement, doing

• 1:09:28Speaker 02

  things faster, you know, repetitive motion really shaped me and built me a life in the outdoors. And a lot of the people that I used to do a lot of the outdoor stuff with now are passed on, but those memories and those things that you would look forward to every year, you know, if you're somebody's mobility limited, quadriplegic, paraplegic or something, there's a trip or something that your friend fishing trip, whatever it is, that your friends go on every year to go be a part of that, or it's a big deal. You know, it's a, it's a big deal. It gives a person to get a reason to get out of bed every morning, something to look forward to. You're talking with your friends about

• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  it all year long. And you get there and the access isn't there. You know, the trail system is so degraded that you can't get there. The gate's up and you can't get the wheelchair around the gate, or there's some obstacle that's been put up because they put an environment or the dirt and then they can then ahead of people, right? And I'm not saying that those aren't important. What I'm saying is when you do a closure, close a gate, take into consideration the impact on, on mobility limited users. Not everybody can just walk around the gate or go across the bridge that's collapsed or step over

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  the hole on the bridge that's failing. These are infrastructures are protected under those civil rights. And we just need to, that's what we're doing is trying to pull some of that back.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  I love it, man. I've got a good friend, Sidney Smith, who actually does a lot of stuff. Um, he is a double amputee and has run marathons and triathlons and he does a lot of, um, a lot of work in the, uh, the hunting community for disabled individuals, uh, with, you know, wheelchairs and like four wheel drive wheelchairs. I'm like, dude, I want to drive that thing. Like it's just some really cool stuff. And I, I love it. I, I am curious, um, and, and I want to give you an opportunity to share the work you're doing so people can support you. But before we get to that, I am very curious about your breathing apparatus and your speaking apparatus. I know when we had talked over the phone

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  a week and a half or so ago, I asked you about that partially because I was curious. The other part of it was like, is this AI or is this guy real?

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it's, it's an electric larynx is what it is.

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  It's an electric larynx is what it is. It's made in Germany and it's, uh, the top of it vibrates.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  That's your real voice right there.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  I press a button. Yeah, my voice.

• 1:12:22Speaker 00

  Whoa.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  I can't talk. Yeah, there's nothing. There's no vocal cords and nothing. It's all been crushed and removed. So this, all this does is create the vibration in your old cavity, much like your vocal cords do. It's just monotone. I don't have any cartilage or larynx to shape the sound. And that's what, that's how your voice works. And mine's all been removed. So I just have a, a monotone voice.

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  Do you think AI will, I, I, that's actually an interesting use of AI. I imagine AI can take the words you're using and create inflection. It could probably do it now. I'm very curious if it, it work with, with that in the future.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  No, I'm sure it could. I've, I've actually started to use some of the AI stuff to help me navigate the world a little bit because I can have it speak certain times when I need to get something across that needs to be clear. I can have it speak in my stead if I, if it's noisy or something. So I've actually used it quite a bit as a speaking tool. I'll paste something in there and turn the voice thing on and use my other phone and just hold it by the phone and let it speak to whoever I'm talking to.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  Works pretty good.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  How, um, is it painful? How difficult is it for you to speak? You, you, you kind of alluded to that when we had talked initially and you said this is, is, it's laboring for you, if I understand correctly.

• 1:13:50Speaker 02

  It's just laboring. It's a, it's everything's, I'm just getting old. Everything's getting sore and tired and banged up. And you gotta push a little harder on your dogger to get those, this kind of clean sound out. So you start pushing on those graphs after four or five hours, it gets a little sore.

• 1:14:08Speaker 00

  Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. The things we don't think about. Brent, I, I just appreciate you taking time and sharing with us. Um, we're going to have a conversation in 10 years. We've already got that on the books, but I really want to get to know you. I want to learn more about your story and I want to support what you're doing. So I'm sure we'll have a lot of really good conversations. Um, can you tell the guys where to connect with your nonprofit, where to learn more about your story?

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:14:33Speaker 00

  You've got a documentary, but you've also got a full feature film, uh, as I understand, coming out relatively soon as well. How did the guys learn more of what you're up to?

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Well, the, the feature documentary is done and we're going to keep that under wraps. The film is, we're working with a producer now to kind of get started. There's some studio interest, but we're in the preliminary stages. So we're a ways away. No filming or production's been done. We're just trying to get the, everything lined up. This is something we started on about four months ago, but it'll move fairly quickly. The, uh,

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  you can follow us at BrentOliver541.org and on social media at Brent Oliver 541 Foundation on Facebook and Instagram. Um, and we, we try to keep everybody updated the best we can there. There's a lot of moving parts. I'm kind of a one man show at this point. We're staffing up, but it's a, it's a lot of work. So just follow along and support. It's about meaningful access to life and the outdoors. And we're not talking about doing anything that we can't prove and just showing people what's possible when effort equals outcome.

• 1:15:53Speaker 00

  What's the, what's the 541? If you don't mind me asking, Brent Oliver 541, what is that?

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  It's just the area code for Northeastern Oregon. I've got a very strong, very strong connection to this part.

• 1:16:04Speaker 00

  I was curious if that was what it was.

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. No, this, this part of Northeastern Oregon's a, the people of it are family. They're not, I mean, while all on this surrounding areas, they're everybody's family to me. So it was pretty, it's a tribute to them.

• 1:16:24Speaker 00

  Excellent. Well, Brent, we'll link everything up. I really appreciate you taking some time with us today. Um, man, what a powerful and compelling story for people. So I, I don't know what else to say. I think you said it all. I'm sure we'll have other conversations publicly and privately. I'm really looking forward to all of those and just want to tell you, I appreciate your time today.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  Hey, thank you, my friend. Sorry about the few pauses, but when the old pain sneaks up, I try to hide that well, but I had a couple of spots there where she got a little rough, but thank you for the time and the opportunity. And I hope your listeners follow us. We got a lot of good things coming up. Happy to share.

• 1:17:01Speaker 00

  All right, gentlemen. There you go. My conversation with Brent Oliver. What an absolutely incredible human being. I know at times it may have been a little hard to hear just because of the, uh, device that he uses, but I hope it, I hope it shows you how powerful human beings actually are. I mean, that's the most important thing. Aren't we incredible? I mean, we really are incredible species. So if you want to connect with Brent, learn more about his upcoming documentary. Uh, he sent me a snippet just the other day and I haven't yet watched it, but I'm going to watch it tonight. I'm very, very excited to dig into it. Uh, man, I can't say enough about this guy. Like such an incredible human being. I'm looking forward to getting to know him more. Uh, I think we're going to

• 1:17:45Speaker 00

  try to plan a time where he and I can go out and hunt and have a good time. And I'm just inspired by him and men like this. So connect with him, help him out. Uh, BrentOliver541.org or you can check him out on the gram. Check me out on the gram. Take a screenshot, let people know, especially if you have somebody in your life who is disabled mentally or physically, let them know what this guy's doing. Cause I think he could be a real catalyst for change in a person's life if, uh, more people heard his story. So again, BrentOliver541.org and, uh, tag it up, share it, et cetera, et cetera. Check out the war room, orderofman.com/warroom,

• 1:18:27Speaker 00

  all one word. And I'll see you there on September 16th at 8:00 PM Eastern. Guys, we'll be back tomorrow. Got a new co-host tomorrow, uh, filling in for my good friend, Kip Sorenson. His name is Alan Placer. You guys are not going to want to miss it. Really good questions, really good conversation. And, uh, until then, go out there, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the order at OrderOfMan.com.