The Cost of Rescuing Others | FRIDAY FIELD NOTES

Are you stepping in to fix everyone else's problems at the expense of your own mission, household, and peace of mind? In this episode of Friday Field Notes, Ryan Michler unpacks the Karpman Drama Triangle—a psychological pattern where men rotate between the roles of Victim, Persecutor, and Rescuer. Ryan reveals why rescuing often stems from ego rather than love, and how stripping people of natural consequences cripples their growth. Learn how to transition into the Empowerment Triangle by practicing true vulnerability, setting clear assertive boundaries, and offering care that builds capability rather than dependency. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 - The High Cost of Rescuing Others 01:35 - The Karpman Drama Triangle Explained 01:50 - Role 1: The Powerless Victim 02:22 - Role 2: The Controlling Persecutor 03:20 - Role 3: The Overreaching Rescuer 07:12 - Cycling Between Roles & Covert Contracts 11:45 - Why Consequences Are Essential for Growth 16:26 - Introducing the Empowerment Triangle 18:29 - True Vulnerability vs. Making Excuses 20:47 - Assertiveness and Setting Boundaries 23:07 - When Rescuing Is Actually Appropriate 25:27 - Weekly Challenge & War Room Announcement Battle Planners: Pick yours up today! https://store.orderofman.com/products/order-of-man-annual-battle-planner Order Ryan's new book, The Masculinity Manifesto https://www.amazon.com/Masculinity-Manifesto-Establishes-Influence-Credibility/dp/1684513316/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1665048672&sr=8-1. For more information on the Iron Council brotherhood https://orderofman.link/iron-council. Want maximum health, wealth, relationships, and abundance in your life? Sign up for our free course, 30 Days to Battle Ready https://orderofman.link/battle-ready-0

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Okay, when you rescue other people, and I've got four children, if I swoop in and rescue them from their consequences every time they make a bad decision, I'm removing the blessing of consequence. Because if it isn't painful, or it doesn't hurt in some way, then you won't learn from it. That's human nature. I made a post on Instagram just the other day that we as men, and humans in general, women as well, we operate through incentives and consequences.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  Hey guys, I want to share with you something that I think is going to be extremely valuable if you fall into one of three categories in your life. And I want you to understand that the moment, this might seem a little counterintuitive, but the moment that we start to begin to save other people, that comes at an expense, that comes at a cost to you. And I'll explain when and where it's appropriate, and when and where it's not appropriate. But it does end up costing you time and peace, and potentially your own mission. And I've seen a lot of guys fall prey to this. I've fallen prey to this as well, where we begin

• 1:09Speaker 00

  to rescue people, or even behave in certain ways that not only hurt our own chances of success, but also end up hindering theirs. And what I want you to understand is that rescuing somebody doesn't always mean love for that individual. Sometimes it's a role, it's a persona, it's something that you're doing, maybe even subconsciously, to feel better about yourselves in some way. And it's called, as I was studying and researching this topic, I came across this phenomenon. It's called the Karpman Drama Triangle. It

• 1:50Speaker 00

  was identified in 1968. And psychologist Cartman identified three roles that are unhealthy, that men fall into at times. And I want you to identify if you fall into one of these categories, and we can talk about how to take ourselves out of these categories and approach this in a more healthy way. So, the first category is somebody who is and playing the victim. Okay, it's poor me, it's woe is me, it's everything's always wrong, everything's always happening to me, nobody loves me, nobody cares about me, if there weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. And that individual feels powerless

• 2:35Speaker 00

  in their lives. I'm sure that you can quickly identify people who are playing the victim role, even if it's in the micro, they may not do it all the time, but certainly at some points in their lives. And I'm sure that maybe even if you're honest with yourself, you can identify where maybe you've even played in that victim role. These are individuals who, it feels like they need rescuing, okay? And then we have the second category, and that's the persecutor. Okay, this is, this is the person who says, it's your fault, it's your responsibility, everything bad that happens to me is because somebody else did it, right? It's your fault, you didn't do this right, you missed this, you missed

• 3:18Speaker 00

  that. And then they critique you and criticize you. And they just make it feel like somebody else is always out to get them. And if they could just fix that person, right, so they're not necessarily rescuing that person, but if they can fix that person, then they'll be the savior, right? And so, they need somebody beneath them, so to speak, in order for them to feel important, powerful, and then it comes across as persecution rather than actual help. And then the third category that he identified is the rescuer. Okay, so let me

• 3:59Speaker 00

  help you. This is an individual who will swoop in, even if they're uninvited, unsolicited, and they're driven a lot of the times by guilt. And again, this need to be needed. You know, I have, I have people in my life who I care about deeply, who are the rescuer. And the only time that they feel important or valuable in life is if they're adding value, if they're needed by somebody else, and they're rescuing other people. Okay, but none of these positions, okay, the victim, the persecutor, or the rescuer are actual positions of strength.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  All three of those are reactive. They're not chosen, at least they're not chosen consciously. And there's reasons why we as men fall into these roles. And I want you, again, to think about your own life and ask yourself if you generally fall into one of these categories, or if you have at some point in your life. So, the rescuer, let's talk about the rescuer first. This is a, this is a man who has been trained from boyhood that worth equals usefulness. This is a category that I, that I often fall to if I'm not careful. Fixing somebody, helping somebody, addressing their problem, even at my own expense, often comes as proof

• 5:22Speaker 00

  to me that I matter. So, I will put my own stuff on the back burner. I will, I will ignore my own responsibilities, and even some obligations, in order to rescue or help somebody else. And it's tricky, because we're taught, right, from boyhood again, to be useful, to be helpful, to be a contributing member. And we certainly should, but there's a line at which it becomes not only unnecessary, but unhelpful, and actually detrimental to your well-being, and the well-being of the people that you're trying to serve. So, keep that in mind as the rescuer. Now, the persecutor, men are taught to convert their insecurities

• 6:05Speaker 00

  in life into control. And that's what a persecutor is trying to do. He's trying to control the situation. Okay, it's criticism as a stand-in for power, that maybe they don't actually have, the authority, or the credibility, or the influence with other people. And in light of their own sense of inadequacy and inferiority, they decide to persecute everybody else because it makes them feel powerful. This is the perpetual hall monitor, right? You give this kid just a little bit of power, and it goes to their head, and it makes them feel as if they're the ones who reign supreme. And that power

• 6:46Speaker 00

  is typically greatly misused, if not outright abused. Now, the third, the victim, is the role that I think least, the least amount of men admit to. But again, it shows up as nobody helped me, so why should I help myself? They're used to excuses, and justifications, and rationalizations, and when they have stalled growth, or just none at all, then they default to playing the victim card. It could not have possibly been me, for the reason for our lack of success. Now, I think that men often default to the rescuer publicly,

• 7:31Speaker 00

  while secretly, it's the victim narrative that's playing behind. Because we know, right? We know that if we play the victim card publicly, it doesn't always go over well. Now, I do believe in culture, there tends to be a race to the bottom, the victim narrative, the victim points, who has it worse? And then whoever has it worse is somehow moral or righteous, simply because they have some victim points. There's no righteousness in being a victim. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all of us are playing the victim. There are people who are actually truly victimized, and we can be aware of that, we can acknowledge that, and we can still take responsibility for our lives. But

• 8:15Speaker 00

  what we do publicly is we turn into the rescuer, because that's what everybody looks at and says, oh, look at Ryan, look how great he is, look how many people he's helping, look at all the wonderful things he's doing. And behind the scenes, there's some insecurities happening, there's some ego issues happening, there's some control issues happening, and I might not actually be addressing the things that I need to address. And the triangle between the rescuer, the victim, and the persecutor, it's, it's not this static triangle. We cycle through all three of them, oftentimes even in a single conversation. That's why

• 8:58Speaker 00

  it's really important that we learn to be aware of how we're coming across, and how we're presenting, and our own thoughts and behaviors, because we could very easily slip from rescuer to persecutor, right? If I try to rescue somebody, and it's something beyond my control, then the persecutor will come out, right? Well, I couldn't control it, so again, it must not have been my fault. See, that person did that, they deserve that. Guys, the rescuer, and you might even fill in the nice guy here, they will burn out from over giving. I mean, how many times have you done that in your life? And you

• 9:37Speaker 00

  may even resort to things like keeping score, or covert contracts, we've talked about both. Because you're frustrated, you're not getting what you need, and you're giving, giving, giving, giving, all the time at your own expense. And so, that rescuer will, again, flip into the persecutor, right? Keeping score, after all that I did for you, after everything that I did, I'm still not good enough. Or you're doing this, or you're behaving that way. That's the persecutor coming out in you. And the persecutor's guilt, afterwards, after the fact, can easily flip into the victim. Oh, so I'm the bad guy now, right?

• 10:21Speaker 00

  Like, I've done all this work, so there's the rescuer, I've done all this work, and it's still not good for, good enough for you, there's the persecutor. And so, all of a sudden, now I'm the bad guy, there's the victim. Three ways of showing up in one single sentence, that I'm sure all of us as men have uttered at one point in our lives or another. Okay, the victim, and you've probably heard this about the nice guy as well, manipulates people by guilting them into rescuer mode. And then, he resents them for treating him as helpless, right? So, if I'm a victim, and I'm going to make you feel guilty because you didn't step up, or do what you needed, or show up for me in

• 11:03Speaker 00

  a certain way, or give me my points, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then I'm trying to get you to turn into a rescuer.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  And then the minute you turn into a rescuer, I'm like, I don't need your help. I don't need anybody's help. I can do it on my own. I don't, you're treating me like a child. You're treating me like I'm worthless or helpless. It's a horrible pattern that we've all slipped into. Okay, it's kind of a closed loop in a way. Everybody's playing a part and everybody's trying to manipulate, massage themselves into certain positions, but nobody's actually solving any problems. And guys, there's a cost of staying in this triangle. Okay, when you rescue other people, and I've got four children, if I swoop in and rescue them from their consequences every time they make a bad decision, I'm removing the blessing

• 11:56Speaker 00

  of consequence. And you might say, well, how is consequence a blessing? Well, that's where we learn. Cause if it isn't painful or doesn't hurt in some way, then you won't learn from it. That's human nature. I made a post on Instagram just the other day that we as men and humans in general, women as well, we operate through incentives and consequences. If there's an incentive for me to do something, I'm going to do that thing. Or at least be more likely to. If there's a consequence for engaging that behavior, then I'm going to be less likely to do that thing. And I joked and teased and said, congratulations, you now have a PhD in human psychology, but it's true. That's it.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  That's all you need to know about human beings. Now, there's sociopaths that might fall out of the realm of what I'm talking about, but for the overwhelming majority of us, we operate based on incentives and consequences. And when you remove somebody's consequences, then you're hurting them, you're crippling them. It's like, it's like wanting to see your children walk and then coming over and smacking one of them in the leg so that now they're crippled. And so can they still walk? Yeah, probably, but it's going to be a lot more difficult because they didn't learn the process of getting back up. The strength that is developed through pushing themselves back off the ground and walking

• 13:22Speaker 00

  again, they never learned that because you keep picking them up and setting them up. It's the same thing with lottery winners. How often do we see lottery winners who will win tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars and be destitute within a matter of a few years, if not in a worse situation than before? Why? Because they didn't earn the right to that money, which means they didn't develop the skillset to have that money, which means they never went through the struggle of making bad financial decisions and learning from them, making better financial decisions. We strip them of the consequences and they don't learn. Okay, time and energy, this is another way it hurts you, is that the time and energy

• 14:05Speaker 00

  that's drained from your own household and your own mission can potentially create a problem. If you're letting other things fall through the cracks because you're in rescuer mode all the time, well, you have other duties, responsibilities and obligations. And then there's the last component, and that's the resentment that builds up. It's the unspoken invoice that you expect somebody to pay. It's the way that they show up, it's the way that they treat you, it's the way that they engage, it's the things that they maybe even give you. We call these covert contracts. And we don't have any right to be upset with an individual if we never explained to them what we expected.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  You expect to be told what they expect so that you can make an informed decision as to whether or not you engage in that relationship. And yet, all the time, we won't do it for other people. Well, why won't she treat me nice? I did all these things. Or you might even talk about it with your wife when it comes to intimacy. Well, I've been good and I've been doing the dishes and I've been doing this and this and this, and we can't even go into the bedroom and have some intimacy together? That's a covert contract. And you're putting that on people when you haven't even explained to them what the cost is, or what the expectation is, I should say. Okay, and then there's the cost of your kids and your spouse, when they watch you pour

• 15:31Speaker 00

  into every single other person except for you. Have you ever had a situation where your wife has either said overtly or mentioned something along the lines of you being willing to do everything in the world except for be there and be present at the house? When I was LDS Mormon, and I'm not anymore, I would watch these young men get called into the bishopric. And the bishopric is essentially the leadership presidency of a neighborhood, essentially, a ward is what it was called. And these young men would go into the bishopric and they'd expect these young men to be there

• 16:11Speaker 00

  on Tuesday night for interviews and be there on Wednesday nights for young men's and young women's programs and be there for not only the three hours of church, but there before and thereafter, talking with members. And you know, I can certainly understand that, but I had close, personal friends who had multiple young babies at home, going to school, trying to start businesses, trying to be helpful for their wives. And yet, the church, who said they espoused the family dynamic, was pulling these people out of the opportunity to serve their families, the most important people in the world.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  And that's what happens when you start pouring into other people unnecessarily or unreasonably, is that your kids watch and see through your actions that other people are way more important than them. So, so what's the way out of this? Okay, there's another phenomenon. It's called the empowerment triangle. I've also heard it called the winner's triangle. And it was developed by a person named A.C. Choi. And it's the antidote to this Cartman model that I've been talking about. And here it is. So, A.C. Choi says that victimhood now turns, or excuse me, becomes the vulnerable.

• 17:34Speaker 00

  And I'm very hesitant, as you guys have heard me in the past, to use that word, because it has a meaning and it has a definition, and often we use it differently. I think modern culture continues to lean towards just exposing all your baggage for the sake of doing it, as if that's to help, and it doesn't. In many cases, it makes things worse. Okay? But when you learn to turn that victimhood mentality into vulnerability, the way that I'm explaining it, where you could admit struggle, you can admit that you're having a hard time, you could admit that you're, that you don't have it all figured out, without surrendering your agency, by the way. See, that's what modern vulnerability says.

• 18:17Speaker 00

  Like, oh, I'll just say, everything bad happened to me when I was a kid and I'm being vulnerable. No, you're being a victim because you're not acknowledging that you still have power over your life. You've heard me talk about the difference between reasons and excuses, right? A reason for something not going well is something you ought to acknowledge. If I have a struggling relationship with my children, there might be a lot of reasons for that. It could be hormones as they get older. It could be something that I've done or something that I've not done. It could be some other influence, whether it's other kids or other adults, maybe even another parent in some cases.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  But there's a lot of reasons why that relationship might struggle, but if you're doing it correctly, it should just give you data so that you can improve that relationship with your children. That's a reason. An excuse is you just throwing up your hands. Well, you know, they learned this from their mom and so there's nothing I can do about it. Their mom's talking bad about me and so, you know, here's what it is, it is what it is. That's not vulnerability, that's just you coming up with an excuse. Vulnerability in the truest sense of the word is identifying a problem, not to hang your hat on, but to identify a problem so that you can do something about it. If I'm a king of a castle and I've got this big, huge, beautiful wall surrounding the

• 19:46Speaker 00

  village and the castle, and it's protecting all the citizens and the people in this realm that I'm responsible for, well, if I'm smart, then I'm going to either go myself or send people out to inspect the wall. And let's say in the east corridor of the wall, I find some faulty bricks or stones and it's crumbling and the foundation is eroding. We would all say, that's a weakness, that's a vulnerability, right? In the truest sense of the word. But I don't come to the town folk and say, hey, just wanted to let you know, in the east corridor of the wall, there's a gaping hole that any enemy can sneak through and, yeah, I just want you guys to know. And then I wash my hands and go back into the castle and sleep comfortably on my pillow

• 20:31Speaker 00

  at night. No, that's not what you would do. What you would do is say, hey, let's get the masons out here, let's get the engineers out here, let's get the bricklayers out here and let's fix this wall. Vulnerability is only powerful when you do something with it, not when you just complain about your stuff.

• 20:50Speaker 00

  Okay, the next anecdote in this winner's triangle, or this empowerment triangle, is that the persecutor now becomes assertive. So instead of just persecuting everybody, and being frustrated, and barking orders, and yelling all the time, instead, you begin to state clearly what your needs are, and what your boundaries are, directly to the person. I've had conversations, even just over the past week or so, with individuals who, instead of coming to me with an issue that they have directly with me, they go to other people and talk about me.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  And I don't think it's malicious, for the most point, but it's inappropriate, at best. If you haven't given me the opportunity to listen to you, to hear what you have to say, to understand your concerns, then you shouldn't be going and talking with other people about that. Stating needs clearly is assertive. Nice guys have a hard time with this, but you need to be able to do this. You need to state what your boundaries are, how you will be treated, how you won't be treated, without needing to dominate everybody else. And people can come along for the ride, or they can decide not to. And look, if they decide not to, that's okay. They don't have to.

• 22:14Speaker 00

  But an assertive leader, an assertive man, is significantly more effective than one who's just persecuting all the time. And the third component of this winner's triangle is that the rescuer now becomes someone who's caring. He offers help, only when it's asked, and appreciated, and only in ways that build another person's capability, not their dependence on you. That's the difference between somebody who's rescuing, and somebody who is truly caring. With my kids, I try to be the caring person, that I can help them to a degree that builds them up, builds them into powerful, responsible, self-sustaining adults, without kneecapping

• 22:59Speaker 00

  them, without building their dependency on me. And you can see it, right? You know, when you see somebody else's kids who can't function in society without mommy and daddy's wallet, for example, or their approval, or validation. But what we need to understand is that there is also a time where rescuing is important, okay? And I want to be very clear on this, and throw this caveat. I'm not saying that you should just withdraw from this altogether. I'm not saying that you just need to become a recluse, or a jerk, or so self-absorbed that you can't recognize there's people out there who actually need genuine help. So when is rescuing somebody actually appropriate? Well, there's a couple of times.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Number one, if it's a genuine emergency. Right? You don't have to ask for their permission. Right? If I see somebody who needs CPR, I'm not going to go ask if they need it, and go through all of the normal modes of conversation and communication before I start administering CPR. Okay? They don't have agency in that moment, so I'm going to act in that moment, because there's a genuine emergency. Another example might be a short-term bridge, with a clear exit, okay? Not a permanent crush. So if I've got a teammate, or a worker, you know, somebody that I need to talk with,

• 24:29Speaker 00

  then, you know, I can help bridge the gap, I can teach them things, I can solve a problem very quickly if I need to, especially if it's in a work situation, and there might be an expense to having somebody else do it. But I'm not going to just micromanage the entire thing, I'm not going to take over the entire project, I'm going to say, hey, let's do this together. And so I'm going to help that person individually, work through whatever we need to work through, so that we can move into this exit strategy of them taking control and responsibility for it. Okay? And that's the third component of where rescuing becomes good, becomes a healthy thing. It's when they're doing the work, and you're just supplementing it.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  And you're not doing the work for them, you're not carrying all the weight, you're just supplementing, especially if they've asked you to do it. And that's the fourth point. If it's asked for. Never in the history of humankind has anybody truly and radically appreciated unsolicited advice. It's obnoxious, at best. It's annoying, it's obnoxious, it's not helpful, it's not warranted. In many cases, they don't even need it, but people think, well, I'm just trying to rescue, I'm just trying to serve, I'm just trying to help. They didn't ask for it. And it's not your responsibility to give it, unless one of those caveats exists that I shared earlier. So guys, I've got some challenges here for you, as we wrap things up this Friday.

• 25:53Speaker 00

  I want you to name someone that you continue to rescue repeatedly, over and over and over again. And ask yourself, are you building their capability, or are you more focused on your own sense of being needed? Okay? Practice, another thing you can do, for a challenge, practice one assertive conversation. I have this boundary, here's how I expect to be treated, I would like to communicate this way, here's what I need out of our relationship, et cetera, et cetera. And then on the caring front, exhibit care. Wait for somebody to offer, or at least ask for help, and care about them, love them,

• 26:36Speaker 00

  don't do anything, don't strip them of the consequences of their choices, don't do all the things for them, work alongside them, support them. But I think regardless of where you fall, and like I said earlier, most men fall on all three of those categories, the rescuer, the persecutor, and the, now I'm drawing a blank, the rescuer, the persecutor, and the, you know what it is, I'm sure, I don't know why I can't think of it. But guys, try to work on these things, okay? Focus on being the kind of man who is bold and assertive, who will help and be caring when he can, and show up powerfully. The other one is the victim, by the way, I don't know why I was drawing a blank.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  The rescuer, the persecutor, and the victim. Move away from acting like those things, and move into that winner's circle. It's the vulnerable, it's the caring, and it's the assertive. Guys, I hope that that gives you some insight. Again, a very interesting phenomenon, this triangle that happens as we navigate our own behavior, and our relationships with other people. I hope that serves you, I hope that helps. If you want to know more about this subject, we're doing a really interesting War Room, I've talked about it last month, it's an opportunity for us to get together as men. We're doing this on September 16th at 8:00 PM Eastern, it's free, all you need to do

• 28:05Speaker 00

  is get signed up, and RSVP. And I think we've got over 100 people registered and enrolled right now, and I would love to have you there. My co-host, Kip Sorenson, and good friend of mine, is going to talk more specifically about the rescuer, and the persecutor, and how to move more into a sense of leadership from a place of being an anchor, somebody who has exhibited this winner's triangle that I'm telling you about. So if you're interested in that, make sure to check it out, go to orderofman.com/warroom, that's orderofman.com/warroom. All right, guys, we will be back, I've got a very, very interesting podcast lined up for Tuesday, so make sure you subscribe, click the little button, wherever it is, on

• 28:50Speaker 00

  YouTube, so you don't miss an episode at all. I appreciate you guys, again, orderofman.com/warroom. Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to the Order of Man Podcast. You ready to take charge of your life, and be more of the man you were meant to be? We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.