Roxie Nafousi ON: Manifestation Masterclass & How to Set Better Intentions to Attract Your Dream Life

Today, I am talking to Roxie Nafousi. Roxie is an self-development coach, manifesting expert, author, ambassador for the Mental Health Foundation and Instagram Agony Aunt. Her commitment to transforming the lives of people who suffer with emotional and mental health issues, and helping them to fulfill their potential, has seen her become a well-known figure in the wellness world. She has hosted self love and motivational workshops and events for major brands as well as being a regular speaker on wellness and mental health panels both in and outside the UK. Roxie opens up about her past, her addiction, and how she found spiritual healing that eventually led her to a better path in life. We both shared our vulnerability as we talk about the real value of manifestation, the misconceptions surrounding it, how fear and doubt can hold us back from manifesting our goals, and how we can continue to manifest the goals we want to achieve alongside the priorities we currently have. Having clear goals will help us set a clearer vision of the future we want to have. And when we work hard to achieve these goals, its manifestation is put into action. What We Discuss: 00:00:00 Intro 00:03:10 When did your spiritual journey start? 00:07:43 Tapping in drugs and addiction 00:10:48 Manifesting the wrong things 00:14:07 How do we manifest negativity? 00:17:02 Devaluing the meaning of manifestation 00:21:43 Misconceptions about manifestation 00:24:27 Having clear goals 00:30:22 Fear and doubt 00:36:05 Self care through fear and doubt 00:41:23 Does manifestation and prioritization work together? 00:45:44 Mom guilt 00:50:01 Legally changing a name 00:54:24 Who you want to be 01:00:35 Being clear with your vision 01:03:14 What does envy represent 01:08:59 Finding joy in other people’s losses 01:11:53 Building self respect 01:16:45 Roxie on Final Five Episode Resources Roxie Nafousi | Instagram Roxie Nafousi | Facebook Roxie Nafousi | Twitter Roxie Nafousi | Website Manifest: 7 Steps to Living Your Best Life Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:27Jay Shetty?

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• 1:49Speaker 01

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• 2:18Roxie Nafousi?

  You cannot manifest things that are totally out of your control. Manifesting is about becoming so empowered and so full of self-belief that you make things happen. And in that, it means that you can't manifest things that have absolutely nothing to do with you. This isn't a game of luck.

• 2:40Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier and more healed. Now, I love sitting down with a guest that I've been chopping up with on messages and getting to know and following for some time. And today's guest is someone that I've had a few interactions offline and I'm being honest with you, one of the sweetest, warmest, kindest people that I've connected with. And when I first came across her book and her work, I was so happy to see someone take this very big word, take this very known theme that we've kind of repeated over the years, but then make it their own and really help us more deeply understand it, unpack it and live it.

• 3:25Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's the part that I'm most intrigued by is that I think this word's been thrown around for a long time and it's kind of been a bit ethereal and not as tangible. And today's guest is someone who I think is going to make it super easy, super practical and super applicable for everyone who's listening and watching, wherever you are in the world. I'm talking about Roxy Nafousi, the author of Manifest: Seven Steps to Living Your Best Life. If you don't already have this book, make sure you go and order a copy right now. We have the link in the caption, in all the details. Make sure you go and grab a copy. But Roxy, I'm so excited to have you here today. I've genuinely loved, whether it's been us emailing, DMing, whatever it's been, and it's so great to have you here finally. So, thanks for coming.

• 4:05Roxie Nafousi?

  I am so excited. I've been smiling throughout that whole introduction and honestly. I feel like I'm pinching myself. So I have to tell you, at the beginning of this year, on New Year's Eve, I always do a vision board and I dream as big as possible. And it was before the book had even been released. And right in the middle, I wrote Jay Shetty. Really big. I was like, I have to connect with him. Obviously, I wanted to come on the podcast. Um, and it was like a huge dream for me. So thank you so much for having me on.

• 4:33Jay Shetty?

  No, of course. And you have to say, I want to see that. You've got to send that to me.

• 4:36Roxie Nafousi?

  I will. I'll send you a picture.

• 4:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love seeing people's vision boards. I think it's such an important activity to manifest.

• 4:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 4:43Jay Shetty?

  And I've, I've done that in so many ways. When, when I first moved to LA as well, for me, that was my kind of approach where I was like, I need to know, I, I want to connect with people I think I genuinely connect with. And I think that's been a big part of my manifestation is that it's always come from a really good intention. It's come from a genuine place of, I don't want something from someone. I, I want to connect with them. And I think we'll, we'll dive into that and we'll get into it. But it's so awesome because I know you were on the Today Show in New York. Uh, you're now in LA. It's, it seems like you're taking the book international, which is, which is amazing. But I've loved seeing how you've been, you know, I've seen the manifest events that you're doing out in London as well and, and across the UK. Like, talk to me about, I want to know more about you and your journey.

• 5:27Jay Shetty?

  When did you first start your spiritual self-discovery, your personal journey? Where did that begin?

• 5:35Roxie Nafousi?

  So to kind of give you some background, before, because I started when I was about twenty seven, just about turned twenty eight. So I think it was probably my Saturn returns as well. But up until then, I was the opposite of spiritual. I had been in an addiction to cocaine, alcohol and cigarettes for almost ten years. And I was obviously suffering from depression. And it's one of those things was the drugs causing the depression or the depression fueling the drugs. But it was obviously a combination of both. Um, but even prior to that, I had always been someone who was extremely negative.

• 6:15Roxie Nafousi?

  I had more self-loathing than I could ever describe. I truly hated who I was. Um, from my earliest years, you know, when I was growing up, I was an Iraqi, growing up in Oxford. My name's Rowan. The Iraqi war broke out. Um, and you know, there was this kind of.

• 6:38Roxie Nafousi?

  Media attack on Muslims and I grew up in a very devout Muslim family. And I was treated pretty horrifically at school and I started to really reject where I was coming from. And when you reject where you're coming from, you are just rejecting yourself and who you are. And I think that was stemming all this self loathing. And so when I was 12, I decided to move schools. Um, after this incident where I'd been locked in a phone box, basically been called Saddam. It was really, I'd actually blocked out the memory for ages. And I decided to change my name from Rohan to Roxy. And then that kind of continued this journey of escaping from myself and who, and who I was.

• 7:21Roxie Nafousi?

  And it took me until this kind of major rock bottom in um, May 2018. When I'd been on a yoga teacher training course. And I really thought this is going to change my life. I am going to, you know, do 200 hours of yoga, I'm meditating. I've got no access to these drugs and, you know, all the cigarettes and everything that I was using to escape. Um, and I felt that that was going to be it. And I remember there was a monk there and he read my palm and he said, you've got this fork on your palm. And you're here to help lead um, with your wisdom. And I was like, okay, great. I'm going to go home and be a yoga teacher.

• 8:03Roxie Nafousi?

  And at the beginning of my classes, I will try and inspire people. And that was kind of my goal then.

• 8:11Roxie Nafousi?

  But I got back to London and 24 hours later, a friend called me and she was like, do you want to come to this party? And I was like, yeah. And within an hour of being with her, I was back taking drugs. And I went on a 48 hour bender, basically didn't go to bed.

• 8:32Roxie Nafousi?

  There's some things I really regret and I woke up feeling totally at rock bottom, like the shame, the regret, and I felt like I was unchangeable. I thought this is just who I am. And I called my friend Sophia and she is, she is quite, she is very spiritual and I would say she's quite woo, like she's quite out there. And she said, oh, you should listen to this podcast on manifesting. And I thought, oh, okay, well, this is going to be something that's really woo and out there, but I'll give it a listen because at this point I'll try anything. And I listened to this podcast and I realized that manifesting was all about self-worth. And something in me just clicked. You know, I think we all have those moments where

• 9:14Roxie Nafousi?

  we hear one thing and it kind of just changes everything. And hearing about manifesting was that catalyst for my change. And from then, I started immersing myself. I would say it's like I brainwashed myself with self-development in the best way. I was listening to podcasts, reading books, like I love YouTube for motivational videos. And I was doing everything I could to try and understand how to change my mindset, how to rewire my brain, the way that I was thinking, the way I felt about myself. But all of it really was manifestation. So for me, manifesting is the umbrella and all of self-development and healing falls underneath it.

• 9:57Jay Shetty?

  Wow, I love that definition. And thank you for telling us about your story a bit too. Like, how did you, how did you first get introduced to like cocaine and drugs and, and all of that world? Because I totally understand what you're saying that you were going through this. Bullings and understatement because it, it was a lot worse and it can be a lot worse. But you're going through this kind of tension, stress, pressure that's coming from the outside because of where you're from and where your family's from and things like that. But then how did it go so far to that extreme? Where did you get introduced to these things? And how did they become normality?

• 10:30Roxie Nafousi?

  When I was at school, I remember trying, it was called a W K D. It was like,

• 10:35Jay Shetty?

  Yes, I know what those are.

• 10:36Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, those like blue Alco Pops. And I remember trying it for the first time and thinking, gosh, like something about this feels quite good. And I slowly, slowly started drinking every now and then. It was not common, like my mom obviously never like knew that I was drinking, you know, she would be so upset if she did and but I was doing it kind of like casually. And then when I left school and I went to university, I was eighteen and actually I've just remembered the first time. Yeah, I went to an after party and I remember taking cocaine for the first time and just thinking it was great and I just loved it and

• 11:15Roxie Nafousi?

  as someone who had absolutely no confidence, what this drug was giving me was this false confidence. And so the use started to become more regular, but it I actually formed the addiction, I would say, really quite rapidly because by the age of twenty two, I was in my first N A meeting. I knew that something was not right, that I was doing it to excess. I would, you know, when I'd be getting ready to go on a night out, it'd be four P M. in the afternoon and I would be on my own taking, having a line because it would give me this false confidence as I was getting ready. But I obviously then didn't give up until I was twenty eight. So there was this long period of time where I knew I had an addiction.

• 11:59Roxie Nafousi?

  But trying to get out of it was so, so hard. And the shame that comes when you're constantly trying to remove yourself from something is, you know, it is, I did feel it was a very traumatic time. Even now, if I see people on T V doing drugs or if I've been out and I see people coming home from an after party, I have a physical response to it. I feel so anxious. Um, so yeah, it's, it was a time.

• 12:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, wow. Yeah, I mean, that, that isn't trauma that just disappears and just leaves you and what you said earlier, it can be so hard when manifesting and self-worth are so correlated.

• 12:38Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Jay Shetty?

  To manifest from that kind of a place can be really difficult because I'm guessing when you're saying, Jay, I don't feel confident and that's why I do this because it makes me feel confident. It means you're coming from a place of I don't have self-worth. But then to manifest, I have to believe that there's more for me to deserve and more for me to earn and more for me to create. And so. Let's let's dive into that and keep kind of coming back to where you were too, because how did you learn to manifest for yourself from a place of a lack of confidence and a lack of self-worth?

• 13:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Well firstly, now in reflection, I was manifesting but the wrong direction. So I was actually attracting, I think, a lot of negativity to me. And I was constantly thinking, you know, I wasn't making any money. Like, I had no career. I was trying, but at the last moment, they'd pull out or they wouldn't want to work with me. And I was for sure manifesting that because I was kept saying to myself, I know it's not going to work. I know this person's going to cancel. I spent so much time on my own. I was so lonely. Like, I truly know the meaning of loneliness at its deepest level. But when I decided, you know, and I discovered manifesting, and like you say, I realized

• 13:54Roxie Nafousi?

  that it was so closely linked to self-worth. How I started was to start my healing journey. And I, the first kind of technique I used was to fall asleep to affirmation playlists because I realized that your subconscious was susceptible as you're falling asleep. But there was, but then that was an ongoing journey. And by the way, I'm still on it.

• 14:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course.

• 14:17Roxie Nafousi?

  Like, I'm still on that self-worth journey. You know, we spoke before, you know, there are still things that are definitely kind of my blocks. But I don't know if you had this, because I said before, I wish I was interviewing you.

• 14:29Jay Shetty?

  You're not allowed, Roxy. You're not allowed to interview me today. We will save that for another time. Today's about you and your book.

• 14:37Roxie Nafousi?

  When I first heard about kind of self-development and I would listen to speakers and people would say, oh, it's a lifelong journey of healing. I was like, what do you mean it's a lifelong journey? That sounds hideous. What's the point? I was in this like self-development honeymoon. So at the beginning, you know, when you find healing and I'd been in this real dark place and then I start to see changes, I start to see the light. I thought, well, this is it. I'm healed. I'm never going to feel bad again. Like, this is great. And it's exactly like being in a relationship. When you start and you're like, I'm never going to argue with this person. We're going to be together forever. And then, you know, time goes on and you realize that's not the case.

• 15:19Roxie Nafousi?

  And now what I realize is that, yes, it is a lifelong journey, but with every single kind of layer you peel off, you open up this huge potential for growth and abundance and opportunity, and you're constantly upleveling. So even when you take a step back, you're still never going back as far as you went. And that for me is really reassuring. And I hope for anyone listening who's also thinking, what do you mean this is an ongoing journey? It's ongoing, but in the best possible way.

• 15:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I think it's interesting when you say that because I think, I believe that everything's a lifelong journey. There's literally nothing that you could actually say has a beginning and an end. Because even when you look at something that you don't think grows anymore, it is growing, it's just growing slowly, or it's growing differently, or it's growing uniquely. But everything's either growing or dying at any given time. And I think people forget that. And I like the point you made that you can manifest negatively, and you can actually manifest the other way. Can you give us an example of how we do that? Like, how do we almost manifest things not working out?

• 16:28Roxie Nafousi?

  So I think, like, really simple examples, if you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, you wake up in a really bad mood, and then you miss your train, and, you know, your meeting gets cancelled, and you stub your toe, or whatever it is. We've all had those experiences in those days where we're kind of just operating at this low vibe, we're in a bad mood, and then that's what's happening. But there's also, I think, a deeper level where we, you know, so much is self fulfilling prophecies. So if we are constantly operating from this belief system that we aren't worthy, that we aren't enough, that we can't, you know, receive abundance, then we're going to

• 17:10Roxie Nafousi?

  Change the way that we interpret and the meaning we attach to everything we experience. So we might have a conversation with someone, which is a in in perspective, someone else's perspective, is just a like really normal conversation, but to that person who's got that low self-worth and and believes everybody's against them. They might take that conversation totally the wrong way and then sabotage the relationship and then go, see, I told you. I told you, nobody's here for me, or I told you I couldn't, you know, whatever it is. And so I think in that sense, we are absolutely manifesting negativity into our lives because of how we're perceiving the world through that lens of low self-worth or low self-esteem.

• 17:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, that's such a great answer. And I'm so glad you raised that point because I think people think they're like, okay, well, should I start manifesting? Should I not? Does it work? Does it not? And the point is you're already doing it.

• 18:02Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 18:02Jay Shetty?

  In in one way or another. And I think a lot of people struggle with the idea of manifesting for people who are kind of more skeptical or cynical and things like that. And, you know, you you said you came from a non kind of spiritual background too, to some degree it sounds, or not open to these ideas. And and that's the same with me. If someone told me about manifesting years ago, I would have just been like, that's weird, like that doesn't work. It's just hard work. It's just you've got to put in the time. And now I realize I was subconsciously manifesting so many incredible things in my life, not knowing the term, not knowing the process. And then I was like, well, actually, if you know the process, you can use it better.

• 18:42Roxie Nafousi?

  Yes.

• 18:42Jay Shetty?

  Right? Like, I think that's something that we don't understand. It's almost like if everyone is listening or watching, if you think about something you do. Actually, ask your friends this, ask your friends, what do I do well? And whatever answer they give you, there might be some things in that that surprise you, like your friends might say, oh, you're actually a really good communicator. And you're like thinking, well, I never even knew that. Or your friends like, oh, you're really great at mediating between us when we're arguing and you didn't know that. Often when you don't know you have a skill, you actually don't know how to use it well. And that's what I find with manifesting, whether you're using manifestation to create negativity in your life or positivity, knowing how it works makes sense. So how did you start to piece together your, you know, principles of manifestation?

• 19:26Jay Shetty?

  How did you start to gather and say, this is an important part of the process?

• 19:30Roxie Nafousi?

  I think, by the way, I'll, I'll start by saying that I think this conversation is so important. These conversations and this one especially, you know, I'm so fortunate to have this platform to talk about this. And the reason it's so important to me is that because manifesting has become such a trend, I think it devalues it so much.

• 19:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Roxie Nafousi?

  And I'm so passionate about manifesting that I, I get almost a bit upset. I'm like, no, it's so incredible. It's such a full and fulfilling and meaningful practice. And within it, there is science and philosophy and wisdom. And I think it can get a bad rep, you know, from these like 30 second TikTok videos, which maybe just are ma- are giving so many misconceptions around it. But this really is like, it isn't woo, it isn't mystical. And actually, my book in particular is for the skeptics. So like anyone who's a skeptic, I challenge them to pick up the book and not feel better about their lives afterwards. But how I came up with the seven steps is honestly a terrible story.

• 20:34Jay Shetty?

  I love it. That's great. That's awesome.

• 20:36Roxie Nafousi?

  I, um, so when I had Wolf, I kind of really was like, I'm gonna, who's my son? I thought, I'm gonna make this career for myself in being of service to others, others. I realized that that was my purpose. It's what I'm here to do. And, and so the first, I did a workshop. I used to watch like Brené Brown and I just love her. And I, and I saw her, um, called Courage on Netflix. I was like, I want to do that. I want to be on stage. I want to inspire people. So I thought, I'm just gonna host my first workshop. And it was a self-love workshop and a hundred people came. I couldn't believe it.

• 21:08Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's amazing. Where did they come from?

• 21:10Roxie Nafousi?

  I had a really small community on Instagram. It was like, I think like twenty thousand followers. So it was good, but it was small. And I was really connected to them because I'm very open and vulnerable. And they've kind of been on the journey with me. And so I said, look, I'm gonna do this. Anyway, you know, I can't imagine, you know, what your first one was like, but I remember just my legs like jelly before I stepped on stage. But the moment I got on that stage, I was like, this is what I'm here to do. Um, so I did that workshop. It went well. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna do another one. And so I said to my audience, I said, guys, I've been following manifestation. I've been learning about it. Do you think I should do this? And this was Jan twenty twenty. And they were like, yeah.

• 21:50Roxie Nafousi?

  So I was like, now I have to do a workshop and manifestation. How am I going to explain this practice? There is so much to it. So I just thought, right, I'm gonna put it in a step-by-step process. So I went on a walk and I got out the notes on my phone. And within five minutes, I had my seven steps to manifesting. And I think it came so instinctively to me. But I made this claim that I said, everything you need to know about manifestation is in these seven steps. And then I panicked because I was like, this is a big claim. And what if people realize that things are not in these seven steps? And when I would listen to people talk, I was like on the edge of my seat thinking, I hope there's not something that's not in my seven steps.

• 22:35Roxie Nafousi?

  But I actually found that everything slotted in to one of these steps.

• 22:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, and a hundred people came to that workshop in Jan twenty twenty. And then in the pandemic hit, I took them online. Seven hundred people were then on a webinar in Jan twenty twenty one. And by Jan twenty twenty two, it was a Sunday Times bestseller.

• 22:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:55Roxie Nafousi?

  So it was a really exciting journey and I still stand by these seven steps. I live and breathe them. They are so practical, accessible and easy for anyone to follow.

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• 26:14Jay Shetty?

  Again, that's HVMN.com and use promo code PURPOSE. When I looked through the seven steps, I really appreciated that you got into things like, uh, my favorite ones, and I want to talk about a few of these, but my favorite ones were step three, align your behavior. Uh, step six is probably without doubt my favorite one out of all the seven, which is turn envy into inspiration. And even just the fact that you were considering envy when you're talking about manifestation. I found that really interesting. I was like, oh yeah, I've never heard someone talk about manifestation and go there. And also, you know, you obviously talk about overcoming tests from the universe, but it wasn't this, it wasn't just about the universe. There were just so many other elements to it.

• 26:56Jay Shetty?

  So let's dive into a few of these because I think, I want to give people a sense of some of these steps and, and, and we'll, we'll dream and talk about it too, but before we do that, let's talk about some of the misconceptions you mentioned. So what are some of the big misconceptions that you are breaking and debunking the myths of manifesting in this book? Like what would you say are your ones that stand out to you?

• 27:21Roxie Nafousi?

  So the first one is definitely that manifesting is visualization, that you can visualize your way to success, or if you just think really hard about something, or you have a positive mindset, it will come to you. Um, it's just simply not the case. There's no substitute for hard work and you can think as hard as you want about something. It doesn't mean it's going to appear in your hands because this isn't magic. Okay. I always say it feels magical. Like I feel like this moment for me is magical. Like this is incredible, but it isn't. I made it happen, you know, I did manifest it through act, taking action and following the rest of the steps. The other misconception I think is that it's a ritual. So. I've done hundreds of interviews on manifesting and in nearly everyone I'll get asked,

• 28:06Roxie Nafousi?

  you know, um, what can someone do every day to manifest their partner? As if there's one thing you can do, like you can journal before bed or you can do a visualization meditation. And what these are, these are rituals that support your manifesting journey. But manifesting is the self-development practice. You live and breathe it. Everything you do is part of your manifestation practice. Like the way you show up for yourself, the boundaries you set, the routines you have, the habits you have. Everything matters. These rituals are not manifestation practices. They are just supporting the process.

• 28:45Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, and the other one is that you cannot manifest things that are totally out of your control. So sometimes I get asked, can you manifest winning the lottery? I'm like, no, you can't because it's nothing to do with you.

• 29:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:01Roxie Nafousi?

  Manifesting is about becoming so empowered and so full of self-belief that you make things happen. And in that, it means that you can't manifest things that have absolutely nothing to do with you. This isn't a game of luck.

• 29:13Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Amazing. I love those. Those are three. You could, you could tell that you've, you've spent a lot of time thinking about these because those are three really great, great answers on some of the biggest challenges with manifesting. And I get asked all those questions all the time too.

• 29:27Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 29:27Jay Shetty?

  I'm, I'm happy that you've done all the thinking in between for it. Uh, being clear about our vision, I think that's the one that gets talked about the most when it comes to manifesting. It was like, be really clear, be really specific. You hear the old examples of Jim Carrey wrote himself a $10 million check. And then, you know, then he got, I think it was Dumb and Dumber that he got a $10 million check for. You hear those stories of people who are really clear, like specific about the amounts, specific about the person, specific. Talk to me about your key tenets of being clear about the vision.

• 29:58Roxie Nafousi?

  And interestingly, by the way, this is the shortest chapter in the book.

• 30:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Roxie Nafousi?

  But it's the one that people spend the most on.

• 30:03Jay Shetty?

  Time on, yeah.

• 30:03Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, but it of course is important. I mean, from a neuroscience point of view, when we have these really clear goals and when we do visual rehearsal a lot, we prime the subconscious parts of our brain to reach that goal by filtering out unwanted information and seeking out opportunities that are aligned with them. So. I like this step and for its kind of ability to give us this kind of opportunity to actually figure out what it is we want from life. Like, who do we want to be? What do we want our lives to look like? But more importantly, what do we want our lives to feel like? You know, and I think that actually just giving ourselves that space to be really vulnerable

• 30:47Roxie Nafousi?

  and open and step back and go, do I want something different? Do I want to be in a totally different industry? Do I want a different kind of relationship? You know, am I actually happy where I am now or not? So I think it's a really, it's, you know, creating a vision board, I always say, which, you know, is just creating a visual representation of what you want your life to look like. It's a really sacred experience. It's why I encourage people to put them away. Um, there's two camps on this. Some people love having their vision boards out where you can see. I think they should be put away because I think you have to be so vulnerable with your dreams. You are not going to be really honest about what you want if you think your mom is going to walk in and see it on your wall or your boyfriend's going to see it on your screensaver.

• 31:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, so having this kind of clarity

• 31:35Roxie Nafousi?

  and bravery and courage to actually be honest about what you want is all really integral to this step. Um, and a kind of practice, a ritual that I like that supports this is a visualization meditation. For me, I fall asleep every night to one, every night. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's a really simple first step and I just think it is about this kind of clarity for yourself.

• 32:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's a great answer. I think so many times. And that's why I knew I wanted to talk to you about manifesting because I feel so often in the manifestation world, someone will say, yeah, well, pick your goal, like, what is it? Visualize it, think it. And I'm like, well, actually, it's so much more about what you said. It's so much more about who you want to be and how you want to show up in the world and how you want to feel because. When you ask that question, you then realize, oh, wait a minute, is that thing gonna make me feel that? Probably not. And so I'm, I'm gonna reflect on this back for the audience with my journey and how it makes sense. So when I was, after I'd left the monastery and I was working a corporate job so that I could pay my bills and take care of everything,

• 32:41Jay Shetty?

  around 2015, end of 2014, beginning of 2015, I felt like that. I felt I was doing good at a job that I didn't really see a future in, but I knew that my purpose was to help people and serve people. And I was trying to do that on the weekends and evenings, but there was only so many people I could connect with and there was only so many people I could touch because I didn't have that much time and energy. And there was a part of me that felt, well, I have to share this with more people. And so that's when I started, exactly what you're saying, where I started looking into what will make me feel like I'm connecting to people. I've already helped a few people very deeply. What is it that I'm looking for? I'd already worked and coached a few people and gone all the way with them, but I was like, I wanna touch more people

• 33:26Jay Shetty?

  and I want to be able to reach people who their company can't afford this. They're not doing this because they have to have a coach as a business. It's like this is for anyone and everyone on the planet who can access it for free, who's just like me as the kid in London who grew up with no access to any of this, but got lucky that I met the monks. How do I reach that person? And so I fully agree with you that it was in that moment that I decided what I wanted to feel and who I wanted to be, even though I had no idea what it looked like. So if you ask me to describe where I am today, which is still on the journey, I would never have described any of this in any specificity because I just didn't know. And if anything, my goal and my visualization was far more basic and limited, but it was enough to get started. Does that feel fair?

• 34:11Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah, I love that. And I think that's so important for people because- One of my most asked questions is what if I don't know what I want? And actually, what you're saying is, hey, I didn't know the exact things I wanted, but I did know what I, who I wanted to be and how I wanted to feel. That is the best starting place, and I think so important for anyone listening. It's also feeling really lost, and people often find this practice when they are feeling lost. And when you are, it is really hard to have those specific goals.

• 34:39Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:39Roxie Nafousi?

  So you, you know, I think that's just such an important example to share. Thank you.

• 34:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, no, no, it's just as, as soon as I heard you say that, I was putting myself in the shoes and I, I feel that. I've never, I've actually never been specific about numbers, things. Those things have never been part of how I've manifested, and I'm not saying that's bad to. I'm saying that's not been my approach. And my approach has constantly been, how do I use the gifts I've been given in the service of others? Like, that's always been like the kind of intention. But moving away from that, we have this idea of, like you're saying, people are not always clear about their goals, they're not always clear about what they want. But then what usually hits is this fear and self doubt. And I remember going through that as well. So I want to ask an interesting question about this.

• 35:28Jay Shetty?

  When you're thinking about fear and self doubt, I feel like this is the part where we spend a lot of time. And most people get stuck in fear and doubt that they never start, they never try something, they never give it a go. Because they're worried about what their parents will think, they're worried about what their family will think of them, they're worried about what their friends will say. When you think about fear and doubt, what is the root of what we're really struggling with in fear and doubt? Like, if you really had to think about that and go, what is at the core of why fear and doubt is such a hard thing to overcome in the process of manifesting?

• 36:01Roxie Nafousi?

  I always take a breath when I think about fear and doubt because it's so overwhelming for so many of us. And it was the hardest chapter to write, remove fear and doubt.

• 36:11Jay Shetty?

  I believe that, I believe that.

• 36:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Because how do you even begin in one chapter to describe how to begin that healing journey? I think that, you know, we're born into this world kind of full of confidence and self-love. And, you know, I always look at Wolf and he comes home and he's obsessed with himself and I love it. You know what I mean? He's adorable. Oh, thank you. You know, he's not coming home from nursery like, oh my God, Mum. Like, you will never guess what I said to Oliver today. Like, he's not got that kind of like self-consciousness. He thinks he should have everything he wants and rightly so. I mean, I am the biggest pushover as a mum. I'm definitely like making that much worse. But I love that kind of like youthful confidence and belief that they are deserving of everything.

• 36:58Roxie Nafousi?

  But what happens is life, like life happens to us. And to varying extents, we come to believe that we aren't enough, that we aren't good enough as we are. And I mean, my personal belief around this is that I think rarely do we actually get unconditional love from our parents. And this isn't to blame our parents, but the love we receive actually is very conditional. It's if you are good, if you behave, I will love you. If you misbehave, if you show anger, if you are upset, if you are crying, I will punish you and I will withdraw that love from you. And so, of course, we're forming these beliefs so early on that we must mould ourselves

• 37:42Roxie Nafousi?

  to please those around us, our parents, then our teachers and our peers and the people we grow up with and then our partners. And so when you're compounding those beliefs constantly throughout our lives, when we then have this realisation, oh my gosh, I have no self-worth anymore. It's really, there's a big job ahead of you to start to undo all of that conditioning and come back to that bright. Confident, buoyant, childlike self. But I think that the trick is just to begin. Is to begin with from a place of compassion. We can kind of judge ourselves for having the fear and doubt in the first place.

• 38:26Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, we can be like, oh, I wish I wasn't like this. I wish I had more confidence. I wish this. And I think even at that very first step, it's being able to go, hey, I'm so sorry. You know, to you and your inner child, I'm so sorry that you don't feel like this yet. What can we do? How can we heal this? And then finding ways that work for you to, whether it's literally reprogramming your neural pathways and reprogramming your belief system. Or, I mean, just it starts to come into everything that we're doing into changing how we feel about ourselves. Um, and for me, it's been the most profound journey I've ever been on. You know, for me to be able to sit here and say, do you know what?

• 39:07Roxie Nafousi?

  I really love who I am is something I am so grateful for and so grateful to manifestation for. Um, because I absolutely didn't think it was possible, like I know many people listening will feel.

• 39:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, we either put up a facade of confidence or we hide our insecurities. Or we try and find a way to disguise the anxiety that we feel about ourselves in order to cope with the world outside of us. And I think for me, I did that for many, many years. And when I started to feel like I wanted to walk this path, the fear and doubt that came in was fear of failure. There was a doubt around if I had the skills or the ability. And just overall, I think my vision had shrunk. And you're so right. If someone asked me in my teens, if this would have been possible, I would have said yes.

• 40:03Jay Shetty?

  But if someone asked me in my twenties, I would have said no. And so it's really interesting to see that stark comparison. If, if you asked me as a 15 year old, if anything could be possible, I would, I would have been much more broad minded. And at 24, I'd become much more small minded. Because you start thinking as to what's real and what's possible. And. You start also looking at the people around you and going, well, where have they got to? And, and then you start kind of, you know, creating a little hierarchy.

• 40:33Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 40:34Jay Shetty?

  What we say was the word.

• 40:35Roxie Nafousi?

  The comparison.

• 40:36Jay Shetty?

  The comparison of where I am. I love what you're saying about getting back to that childlike exuberance and vibrance. I, I think that is the core. I think that's a great answer because I feel like that now too. I'd say the happiest I think I feel now is that I think I still allow myself to be a kid. And that, a kid in thought, a kid in activity, a kid in the idea of play. The idea of treating work and business as play, the idea of not taking it too overly seriously, where it stops being an expression and starts to become, you know, too structured. And of course, there's, there's times in which you have to be the opposite. So I get that as well.

• 41:18Jay Shetty?

  You talk about self-care being a big part of that through that time. When you, when you talk about self-care and self-love, again, words that are so thrown around and just so overused that they've lost their value. How have you looked towards self-care and self-love through the process of fear and doubt? And in a way that actually helps you through that toughness?

• 41:41Jay Shetty?

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• 42:26Jay Shetty?

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• 43:08Jay Shetty?

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• 43:46Roxie Nafousi?

  So, I think for me, I started to realise early on that self-love was something that we could nurture in every decision we were making. From the minute we wake up to the minute we go to bed, we have an opportunity to either boost our self-love and cultivate it, or the opposite. And so, I started to become very mindful and using a lot of self-awareness to really look at every decision I was making. What time I was waking up, if I was snoozing my alarm, when I was saying no to things that I actually didn't want to do, and when I was just saying yes to please others. How I was eating, how I was moving my body.

• 44:31Roxie Nafousi?

  And this kind of awareness started to change everything that I was doing. And I realised that self-love was honouring where I am today.

• 44:44Roxie Nafousi?

  And where I wanted to be tomorrow. And by that, I mean that, you know, in making our decisions, we need to be considering who we want to become. Where I wanted to be tomorrow, what I wanted to manifest, who, you know, who I wanted to become, and if my decisions were aligned with that. But also making sure that my decisions were honoring how I was feeling each day. And so having that ability to kind of check in with myself. So on days where I was feeling like superwoman, you know, when you wake up, you've got so much energy. I knew on those days, I could really push myself harder at work. I could, you know, go harder in the gym, whatever it was. And on the days where I was waking up and I was, because look, life is still stressful. You know, you're not going to learn to manifest and everything is perfect.

• 45:28Roxie Nafousi?

  But on the days where I was waking up feeling flat or lethargic or just a bit down or sad. How could I honor that via rest, recharge, um, getting an early night? Saying no to social arrangements because that would cause me more stress or making sure I, you know, finish my to do list. And so it was this constant balance of like checking in with how am I feeling today emotionally, physically, mentally? And where do I want to be tomorrow? And what are my priorities for tomorrow? And finding that balance. And that for me is self-love. And then within that is self-care, which is routines, looking after me.

• 46:08Roxie Nafousi?

  Like I have found that I am someone that, you know, I, I work very hard. I'm very busy. But I don't have like boundless energy. I think some people and Instagram probably, I don't know if like I had a warped vision. But I used to see people on Instagram that were so busy and they just seemed to have all this energy for all the time. And I used to try and do that and I kept getting burnt out and ill. And I would get the flu and my backward spasm and I realized that my body just can't handle that level of adrenaline and stress for long durations. So for me, self-love and self-care was going right. I have to take breaks for.

• 46:50Roxie Nafousi?

  Doing things that will really make my body feel better, that will calm down my nervous system, meditation, breathwork, ice baths, IV drips, whatever it is for me that really helps me, and that's self-care.

• 47:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I, I love what you said there, and I think the key word that, that I was taking away was priorities and prioritization. I feel like that's one of the challenges with not just manifesting, but life in general, where it's like you were saying, if I have a sense of priorities and then I need to rest the next day to get back to the priorities. But the problem is, I think all of us have a lot of priorities and we have a lot of things that we want to happen at the same time. And so it's like, we want the amazing career, at the same time, we want the amazing social life, at the same time, we want an incredible vacation, at the same time, we want eight hours of sleep every night. And it's like, I don't know anyone in the world, like I, you know, when, when I met my wife

• 47:44Jay Shetty?

  and, and even now in, in my life, like my purpose is my priority. And my wife and my relationship with her is a massive part of that. But, but she knows that and, and her purpose and her priority is her family. And so we have these, what some people would think of as competing priorities, and I don't see them as competing, I just see them as priorities that are different. And she knows that if there's a weekend and she has a choice to spend with her family or anyone else, she'll choose her family. And if I had the choice in a weekend to do my purpose or anything else, I would choose my purpose. That's just always the way it's gonna be. And I think what's really interesting about that is when people see amazing or exciting things happening in your life, it's like, yeah,

• 48:25Jay Shetty?

  because this is all I care about. Like, I don't, I'm not prioritizing pretty much anything else. And that's kind of like a scary mindset for people, because people, that's an intimidating mindset, a scary mindset, because people go, I don't want to live like that. And the truth is, you don't have to live like that. No one does. But I find that if you don't want to live like that, it's hard to create progress in any area, whether that's being a parent, whether it's being a partner, whether it's building a career, whatever it may be. So how does manifestation and priorities work together? Do you feel that people want to manifest too many things? Are they too different? Is it? Do we need to be more focused? How do you see that when it comes to manifestation?

• 49:07Roxie Nafousi?

  I think that you're right in that people kind of wanna have it all at the same time altogether. But something's gotta give. We're not superhuman. You know, there's only so much energy and time that we have. And I think that having that clarity on your purpose, on your priorities is key. It's also why doing something you love is so important. Because if people are going, well, I don't wanna prioritize my work and have to give up my social life, you know, or have to give up this, it's probably because you're not really that passionate about the work. By the way, for some people, they just want to have a job.

• 49:46Jay Shetty?

  And that's totally fine.

• 49:47Roxie Nafousi?

  Which will pay them so that they can prioritize their social life. That is a good thing to know.

• 49:52Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 49:52Roxie Nafousi?

  Because then you're not thinking, right, you know, I need to have a job that is this all encompassing life purpose. Actually, I just wanna leave at five. I don't wanna stress about it.

• 50:04Jay Shetty?

  And that's awesome.

• 50:05Roxie Nafousi?

  And that is great. I mean, sometimes I feel like, actually, that's pretty awesome. You know, because they want to prioritize other things, travel or whatever. But I think it's also really important for people to know that your priorities will change. You don't need to get intimidated by this idea that, you know, if my priority now is my career, it has to be like that for the rest of my life. My priority this week, let's say, right, I'm here in America and I have these goals that I wanna manifest. My priority right now is one hundred percent communicating my message and inspiring as many people as I want. Which means I have not been out for dinner once, right? I'm not with my son right now. That is my focus.

• 50:50Roxie Nafousi?

  I also know that as soon as I'm home, my priority is my son. And I have to take a step back from work to give that the space it deserves. And so I always see your priority as being like your best friend. And what I mean is that, you know, when you go to your best friend to answer all your decisions? So you'll go, hey, what shall I eat tonight? Or should I break up with my partner? Or whatever. Your priority is your decision maker. It's your best friend. So when you're trying to make a decision of...

• 51:20Roxie Nafousi?

  Should I go to this party or should I, you know, let's say your priority is to feel really energized and healthy. Should I eat this candy, whatever it is. Your priority is that decision maker for you. And that's really important with manifestation because it's helping you to constantly align your behavior with where you want to go and who you want to become. So having those priorities gives you that focus. It helps you to make decisions, but I think it's also really important to know that priorities are changing. Like they will change day to day, week to week. And we should just be allowed to like get comfortable with that, but know that there needs to be some. You can't prioritize everything at once.

• 52:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and I'm happy to hear that because I think sometimes people's vision boards or their manifesting is like every area at the same time and it can be challenging. But I wanted to ask you this, and I feel like you're the perfect person to ask this to. The idea of mom guilt with manifesting, like you're just talking about your son there and like getting back to him and he's young. How old is he now?

• 52:21Roxie Nafousi?

  Three and a half.

• 52:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, three and a half, right. He's so young and it's like, I'm sure you want to be back with him and I'm sure it's hard, but you also have this mission. And I feel like that's, it's such a wonderful thing to see someone trying to balance it and trying to figure it out. But I'm sure it's not easy and I'm sure, you know, I, I grew up with a powerhouse mom who made me breakfast and lunch and dinner every day, dropped me to school, picked me back up, did my homework with me and was the breadwinner of the family. Yeah, I don't know how she did it and yeah.

• 52:52Roxie Nafousi?

  She is a superwoman.

• 52:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, she was, she really is and it's unbelievable. And you know, I think, I just wish she also found work that she loved. She's good at it and she's done great at it, but there's a part of me that's also like, well, if she loved her job too and it, and it fulfilled her and she had time, it would have been amazing. But having been the son of a, a superwoman and seen an incredible mom and having such a great role model in my life. Like for you, how do you balance? Do you ever experience mom guilt? Because you're traveling, you're on the road, you're out there. And how do you manage it with, but I'm also manifesting the life I I want for myself and my son? Like, I just wanna hear how that goes through in your head.

• 53:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Do you know, and I don't know if this is gonna be a very popular answer, but I don't really experience mom guilt.

• 53:36Jay Shetty?

  I love that, how? How does that work?

• 53:38Roxie Nafousi?

  Because I know I, I really believe I'm a really good mom. And I believe I'm a good mom because I do give Wolf unconditional love and space to be whoever he wants to be. And as a parent, that's all we can do is be as good as parents as we can be. We're not trying to be perfect parents. Like, I'm still, I'm still Roxy. I'm still many things. I'm a multifaceted human. Being a mom is one of those. I mean, it of course is the most important thing, but it's not all that I am. And I know that I'm giving Wolfie this unconditional love, safety. I'm trying to create, you know, a life not just for me, but for him as well. And you know what? He is the happiest little boy.

• 54:23Roxie Nafousi?

  So I'm clearly doing something right. And I'm very lucky that Wade is an incredible dad. I know that he, you know, Wolf is never, apart from being in preschool, he's never with anyone other than me or Wade. So I know that he's like in safe hands and he seems fine. You know, when I try, like honestly, before I was going to America, so Wade's taken him to Australia for three weeks. And I did start feeling really panicky. I was feeling quite anxious, like I can't believe I'm gonna leave him. I'm not gonna see him for three weeks, like I'm missing this special time. And, you know, I would say day to day, I'm not like a needy mom. Like, I don't, I'm not like overly attached, like in an unhealthy way.

• 55:07Roxie Nafousi?

  Because I, you know, Wolf is not mine. He's not my possession. He's my son and I'm here to guide him. Um, but he's a very affectionate little boy, just for context. He's very affectionate, loves cuddles, loves kisses, like, he's so cute. Anyway, the day I was leaving, he could obviously sense my neediness and anxiety, and he refused to hug me. I was like, baby, I'm not gonna see you for three weeks, like, give your mommy a hug. He was just like, it was almost like, he was like, mom, you're being a bit much, can you just back off? And every time I tried to FaceTime him for the last two weeks, he's like, I am having too much fun, like, I'm fine. And so, he's happy, I am happy.

• 55:47Roxie Nafousi?

  Um, and at the end of the day, I'm always gonna be here for him and I'm thriving as much as I can. He's thriving wherever he is. And I think that, I hope that in sharing that, it will give other mums permission to be okay with not feeling guilty. Cause I almost think that sometimes we have, we feel guilty if we don't feel guilty. Like, I felt that. I thought, is there something wrong with me that I don't have this awful mum guilt?

• 56:15Jay Shetty?

  Totally, yeah, I can imagine that, yeah.

• 56:17Roxie Nafousi?

  But actually, I'm pleased that I don't, and I hope that it will encourage other mums to be okay with prioritizing themselves. You know, our children are learning from what we do, not what we say, and we know that. And if we are showing them that we respect ourselves, that we honor ourselves, that we want the best for ourselves, they are going to respond to that and learn from that. And it's a really important example to give.

• 56:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's, I, I love hearing that, it's refreshing. And the part that I was extrapolating from that was that it sounds like you've defined, at least internally, what you believe it means to be a good mum, for yourself, for you, for Roxy, who you are. And if you have that definition, then you can live up to that. Now, I may have a definition of what a good mum is, and obviously, I, I'm saying this hypothetically. But it's like, if someone was to compare their definition to mine, or mine to theirs, or X to Y, the problem is, You can start adding a lot of pressure to your plate and as you said, often get the pressure of, well, I have to be everything and anything. And when I was reading your

• 57:23Jay Shetty?

  book, you have this beautiful dedication to Wolf, which is for my son Wolf, be whoever you want to be. And I loved that. And I was thinking, when you changed your name, it sounds like that was a moment where you were becoming who you wanted to be. How did your parents respond to that? Like, how did they, how did your family or extended family feel about you changing your name?

• 57:46Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, I think I was so headstrong, even as a child, that my parents, for me, it wasn't like I was asking my parents. I was like, this is what I'm doing and I have to do it. I'm the youngest of four. My brothers and sisters just, you know, mocked me, obviously. That's what older brothers and sisters do. They thought it was ridiculous that I was now Roxy. And they still don't call me Roxy. They all call me Roanne. But I loved that. But yeah, they didn't try to stop me, which I think was really nice, you know. And I think that's important. And I do feel like a Roxy. And I love it when people say, I love your name. I'm like, thank you. I chose it.

• 58:23Jay Shetty?

  Well, yeah, why Roxy? Where did it come from?

• 58:25Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, I don't know. I was with a friend and we were like, what should we, what should we choose? And then it was that or Rocky? I'm glad I chose Roxy. But we changed it to an Ieve because I didn't want to be like the surf brand. No offence to the surf brand, but I wanted something unique.

• 58:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I love, I think that's really important because so much of who we are is not chosen by us at the beginning of our lives. And then it's important that we start choosing. So the beginning of your life, so much is chosen for you. And as we get older, we only truly become who we are and who we want to be if we start choosing that. And choosing your name is, is quite a big identity shift. It's not small.

• 59:05Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 59:06Jay Shetty?

  And choosing it as a kid is really hard because like you said, you could have ended up as Rocky, which could have been, yeah, which could have, can you imagine that?

• 59:13Roxie Nafousi?

  It would have been a very different life.

• 59:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:15Roxie Nafousi?

  Isn't that weird?

• 59:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 59:16Roxie Nafousi?

  Like if you, and also I kind of, for a time, I felt, you know, in Align Your Behaviour, I talk about kind of stepping into the character of yourself. And I guess For some time, Roxy gave me this character of someone I wanted to be. Like, I wanted to be more confident. I wanted to feel like I was included in school. And so it gave me this kind of space to do that. Eventually, it's just become who I am. But, you know, there was always in that time when I was in my teens. It was like Roxy was the social me and Roanne was the me at home. And now I kind of liked that, you know, in a way, but now it's merged into one.

• 59:51Jay Shetty?

  For me, my identity became class rebel, class clown, you know, the bad, the bad kid in school.

• 59:56Roxie Nafousi?

  I can't imagine that.

• 59:57Jay Shetty?

  It was really bad. If you, if you speak to any of my friends from the age of fifteen to eighteen, they would just be like, this is Jay's a totally different human today. Like, not, not in the sense of how I am with people, just what I was into. And that was the part where I was struggling, where in my heart, I've always been the same person I am today. It's just I didn't think that, for a long time, I didn't believe that vulnerability was strength. Or I didn't feel that love was good, or that I didn't feel that serving others was aspirational. Because that wasn't rewarded around me. So what was rewarded around me was who's a rebel, who's a clown, who's, who can get away with stuff.

• 1:00:39Jay Shetty?

  Like, that was what was rewarded as, or praised by your social circle. And so then I was just pretending to be someone that I wasn't, even though it felt so uncomfortable. Uh, which, when we come to aligning your behavior, I think that's half the issue where my behavior when I was a teen was aligned with a reality or a truth that I would never have subscribed to. Like, if you said to me, Jay, this is what you're actually doing. And I think we don't, we don't really look at what our behavior aligns with. We kind of just go with it and we think it's us. When you talk about aligning your behavior, where are the common mistakes that we make when aligning our behavior? Because, and this is what I think ultimately goes back to the first point you made.

• 1:01:23Jay Shetty?

  Where you said that we have to know who we want to be. And I think when we talk about manifesting, we don't. I think people talk about what their goal is.

• 1:01:29Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Jay Shetty?

  So someone wants to manifest making a billion dollars, right? Making this up, someone's hypothetical example. Aligning their behaviour means doing anything to be able to make a billion dollars. Like, you're ready to do anything because the goal wasn't set from a place of knowing who you want to be. So now it's about getting something, which means you're pretty open to any behaviour.

• 1:01:51Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:51Jay Shetty?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:01:51Roxie Nafousi?

  That does make sense.

• 1:01:53Jay Shetty?

  Talk to us about, going back to who you want to be and aligning your behaviour with that. I feel like, how does someone think about who they want to be in a healthy way? Because I think society has programmed us to say, you want to be a podcaster. You want to be an author. You want to be a billionaire. Like, the word that follows be is rarely who. That's what you want to do. That's not who you want to be. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favourite podcast.

• 1:02:38Jay Shetty?

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• 1:03:18Jay Shetty?

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• 1:03:47Jay Shetty?

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• 1:04:07Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, true, so true, yeah. And I guess it is, you know, it's about with who you want to be. It's for me, that means kind of how you want to show up to the world, what values are important to you, what relationships you have, how you want to feel within yourself, how much integrity you have. For me, for example, I really wanted to be someone who was really confident in themselves and confident in being a kind person. So it's really interesting that you touched on that. But being kind wasn't cool, right? At school, like the people that were cool were the ones

• 1:04:47Roxie Nafousi?

  who were a bit nasty, who mocked other people, even when we would watch TV shows, you know, all the cool kids were kind of the mean ones. And even like if you would look at like in the PR and fashion world, like the mean people were kind of glamorised. And I've always been quite a gentle, I think, really nice person. And that was something that I used to be quite ashamed of in a way. And I used to think that people would just look down on me because of that quality. And so for me, I wanted to be able to just really be authentic in my kindness and go, hey, I actually really like that I'm sweet to people and I'm not going to judge myself for

• 1:05:29Roxie Nafousi?

  it. I want to be someone that thrives in it, that loves myself for that quality. And I know that the right tribe will come to me for that. And I think it comes back to this point you made earlier about. When you were talking about fear and doubt, you said, you know, there is so much worry about external validation. And in the manifesting process, one really important thing is that you have to be able to let go of the need for approval from others. Energy is directional. You cannot be constantly focusing on what other people want from you while simultaneously focusing on who you want to become. You can't go both ways.

• 1:06:11Roxie Nafousi?

  And I describe it like this, I actually describe it like this in my next book, but imagine you're running a race and you wanna get to the finish line. If you're running this race and you're looking over at the person next to you to see how far they're going, or you wanna see if they're looking at you, you're gonna trip and fall. You have to stay completely razor sharp, with razor sharp focus on your own lane, on your own journey, on your own alignment, on who you want to be. And for that, we have to be able to live knowing that and being okay with the fact that not everybody is gonna like us. It has been the most liberating thing for me to understand that I don't need to be liked

• 1:06:55Roxie Nafousi?

  by everyone, you know, as I'm growing and spreading my message, some people are gonna love me, others are gonna find me really annoying, they're not gonna like what I say, they're not gonna like how I say it, and that is okay. And one thing that helped me be okay with it, and I hope will help some listeners be okay with it, is that nobody on earth is universally liked. When I realized that, everything changed. If I look at my best friends, at people I inspire, that inspire me, in the media, celebrities I love, as many people love them, there are others who can't stand them. Absolutely. And that was really reassuring for me. I was like, hey, these people that I love have people that don't like them.

• 1:07:40Roxie Nafousi?

  And hey, it's the same for me as well. And that

• 1:07:44Roxie Nafousi?

  Let it like it set me free. It set me free and it gave me the space to be myself. And in that, I was able to let go of this need for external validation and this constant desire to be what other people wanted me to be and actually just be who I am. And as soon as I did that, everything started aligning, the universe started supporting me and I felt like, you know, I said in the beginning, this isn't magic, but it feels magical. I feel like my life is magical because, not because there aren't stresses that I have to overcome, but but because I'm living in true alignment with who I am.

• 1:08:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I I I love that phrase of it's not magic, but it feels magical because I think that's the issue with manifestation that it's always been presented as magical and in that way. And like you're saying, that the actual method is not magical. The method is structured and there's a process and there's a system and then the result is magical. And and that really aligns with me. I I really, really. I've never heard anyone say that before and I really love that, like it really resonates. And and I can say the same for me, like I feel like I live a miracle every day. But I know the process isn't that and I want to talk a bit about that. That part of aligning the behavior is getting good at doing things when you don't want to do them.

• 1:09:09Jay Shetty?

  And getting good at things that you may not have wanted to get good at. Like, I think people feel that people who manifest their ideal life, they wake up and they do only what they want for twenty four hours in a day. I don't think that's fully true. And I think I felt misled for a long time where I was like, yeah, I love what I do. And I realized I do love what I do, but I also do a lot of what I don't love doing in order to do more of what I love to do. And and I feel like that's where a lot of people leave the journey. Because you start doing what you love. So I started making content, which I loved and sharing this message and speaking on stages. And then all of a sudden, I had to think about building teams and organizing and growing, which wasn't stuff that I would say I love doing compared to doing this.

• 1:09:55Jay Shetty?

  But I had to learn that in order to serve the greater mission. And I realized if I have to learn something in order to serve my mission and manifesting, then that's part of the manifesting that isn't excluded because I don't enjoy it. Does, yeah, where does that sit with you on?

• 1:10:11Roxie Nafousi?

  One hundred percent. And it's why being clear in your vision is so important.

• 1:10:15Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:10:16Roxie Nafousi?

  Because it's giving you that reason, that why, why you're doing the things that you don't enjoy necessarily, or that aren't your favorite part of the process. But you're doing them anyway because of this greater thing. And, you know, I think that we kind of, I don't know if you agree, but there is an aversion to discomfort. Like, we are always trying to, like, avoid, not always and not everyone, but we can try to avoid things that feel uncomfortable, hard work, things that we don't want to do because our brain is always trying to keep us like as safe and happy as possible.

• 1:10:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:53Roxie Nafousi?

  And it's also, you know, a lot of that is also coming from a place of fear as well, like that can't go unsaid. But, and I know this kind of phrase is, some people don't like it, but I do believe that part of self-love is self-discipline. Is be a, there's a, you know, there's a fine line between giving yourself compassion and space to like be gentle with yourself and give yourself space to like experience the whole spectrum of emotions. And sometimes we do need to just go, hey, you need to finish doing your accounts, even though it's really boring and even though it makes you feel like your brain's going to explode, but you need to do them because it's part of this greater picture and it's going to get you closer to where you want to go. And it's also the same with any time you have an opportunity to step outside your comfort zone.

• 1:11:38Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, to take risks, to do things despite the fear of being rejected or the fear of failure or whatever it is. And the more that we can, we train our brain to find. This motivation and commitment to going beyond what we feel is comfortable.

• 1:11:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, that's where we see the real growth. I always say like, there's a great quote, which is nothing changes if nothing changes. But I also love, you know, I say it in my book is if you want to see and create change in your life, you have to be the change. Like you are the driving force behind everything.

• 1:12:14Jay Shetty?

  You talk about envy in your book and I find envy fascinating because the Vedas talk a lot about it, which are the books I studied as a monk. I've, I've found envy to be one of the most interesting emotions. It's, it's fascinating as an emotion to me to have to figure out where is it coming from? What's it doing? And you talk about in the book, how you turn envy into inspiration or that's what you recommend in manifesting. What is envy a representation of for you? And, and how have you made sense of it when you talk about turning into inspiration?

• 1:12:45Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah. So I think this is a really important step for all of us. So envy comes from this scarcity mindset that there's not enough to go around. So if you have something, it's potentially less for me. And it's coming from this place of fear. So I always say envy is fear and doubt in disguise. What often happens is that we are constantly trying to deny ourselves of our envy. We don't want to admit when we're feeling it. Whenever I'm in a workshop and I talk about envy, you could hear a pin drop because nobody wants to like give away that they've ever felt envy before. You know, there's so much shame around it, you know, it's definitely, you know, look at the Disney films.

• 1:13:27Roxie Nafousi?

  It's like the green eyed monster, you know, that always the villains are the envious ones. And when we don't kind of admit our envy, we pass it on often as judgment or criticism of others.

• 1:13:40Jay Shetty?

  So true.

• 1:13:41Roxie Nafousi?

  So we see a confident person walk through the door and we go, oh, they're so full of themselves. Or we see a couple kind of, you know, kissing on the street. Oh, get a room. We're constantly passing this judgment of other people. And I think that is just envy coming out. And so at the very first step, what I really encourage people to do is just start to take ownership of it. Look out for any time you're judging or criticizing others and seeing, is this really a sign that I'm feeling envious of something that they have or something that they're doing? Also, when you know, you know, we, there are times where the envy is just blatant. Like your friend gets a job promotion and you wanted that job promotion.

• 1:14:22Roxie Nafousi?

  Or, you know, if you see someone getting engaged and you're really, you know, waiting for your partner to propose, then it's more obvious. But either way, when we notice that envy or we've, you know, realized that we've been judging someone and we've been disguising it. Yes, I am feeling envious. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. It's not making me a bad person. But what is this showing me? It's showing me that something still needs healing within me. Whether that's an insecurity or just a real doubt that there is enough for everybody to go around. To then take it further, we can turn that and transform it into inspiration. Inspiration is the antithesis of envy. It says that there is enough for us all. It comes from a really abundant mindset.

• 1:15:06Roxie Nafousi?

  What you have something and I can have it too. And I truly believe there is an abundance of love, success, happiness and money in the universe for us all. And so what I encourage people to do constantly is try to get into this habit of turning that envious thought or feeling, first by owning it and being compassionate around it, and then transforming it into inspiration. So for example, if you see someone getting married and you're going, oh my God, everybody's getting married around me. I'm so jealous. You can transform it to, isn't this another beautiful representation of love? I can't wait to have that for myself when the time is right. So we always have this opportunity to transform this very low vibrational feeling of envy

• 1:15:49Roxie Nafousi?

  and turn it into something that is high vibrational, that is more empowering, that feels better. And it's why, you know, supporting each other, celebrating each other is so important.

• 1:16:01Jay Shetty?

  That's awesome. I'm so glad we talked about that because. Yeah, I find that envy can also be the biggest block to manifesting. Because if you ultimately, after doing all these steps, at step six, are feeling envious of others, it it just takes all of that high vibrational energy back to low vibrational energy. And it's envy is one of those like, I know there's, there's all these new thoughts about, you know, envy is a sign of what you really want and things like that. And I'm, I'm not fully in agreement of that. Like, I don't, I don't think that, I often think that our envy just exists much more broadly. If you have narrow envy in an industry or a space, you're probably luckier. Generally, we can feel envious of lots of different people for lots of different things, because we don't know our own values.

• 1:16:43Jay Shetty?

  When you know your values, you'll only be envious of people in your value space. And that's helpful as a start. But you're so right that, yeah, if you, if you find yourself falling into the envy, it's not even what you share with others, it's holding that bitterness within your own heart and mind.

• 1:16:58Roxie Nafousi?

  It's horrible.

• 1:16:59Jay Shetty?

  It's horrible, like, it's just, it's just so polluting. And letting go of it, and for me, what's really helped is again, again, getting really clear on what you said, that if I'm doing my thing, it really doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. And it won't have that, someone else's moves don't influence mine, and someone else's wins and losses don't influence mine. And I think it's also, this is where I wanted to get to, it's also the other way around. Sometimes envy is you can't enjoy someone else's wins. But sometimes envy is you deeply enjoy someone's losses. So when someone loses, you take joy in it.

• 1:17:43Jay Shetty?

  And someone wins, you don't care. But when you take joy in someone's loss, I, I see this in the news every day, like, when people get divorced and we're like, oh, we knew they'd get divorced, we told you so. Someone loses a game and we're like, oh, you're the worst player of all time. Like, we take so much joy in other people's loss, or in other people's failure, or supposed failure. And we don't realize that when that same thing happens to us, we're gonna treat ourselves the same way. Now, God forbid, you go through something similar that you condemned online. You're gonna condemn yourself through that whole process, rather than giving yourself compassion and space.

• 1:18:22Roxie Nafousi?

  It's so true. I, similarly, I always say that every time you're judging someone else, you are like...

• 1:18:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Compounding and building this fear that other people are judging you.

• 1:18:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:35Roxie Nafousi?

  And that you will then judge yourself more. So actually, the less we do it for other people, the less we find joy in other people's losses. And the less we find ourselves judging and criticizing others, actually, the less we'll do it to ourselves or fear that other people will do it to us as well.

• 1:18:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:50Roxie Nafousi?

  So I think it's a really, really important one to talk about. And I think, you know, personally, it's something that's really empowered me to manifest because, like you say, of course, it's a big block. Because if I was, you know, when my book came out, I'm going into the, you know, into having a career in the self-help, you know, industry, let's call it. If I was thinking, oh, my gosh, no, there's so many successes. Jay Shetty is like, he's got millions of followers and I'm never going to be that big. And if I started having that, I would be totally blocking myself, right? But we're all on the same mission. We are all here to help people and inspire people.

• 1:19:34Roxie Nafousi?

  And for every coach, healer, author out there, there are thousands of people wanting to learn.

• 1:19:39Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:19:40Roxie Nafousi?

  And who listens and hears my message and takes it in.

• 1:19:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:45Roxie Nafousi?

  Is supposed to be in my tribe, but I'm, like I said, I'm not for everyone. And so for other people, they'll hear you speak and that will resonate way more with them. Or they'll hear another coach speak or another speaker or another author. And that's great.

• 1:19:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:00Roxie Nafousi?

  Because we're all, we're all on the same mission and that's an abundant mindset. And that's why I can look at you and Brené Brown and Tony Robbins and anyone in this world and go, that is so inspiring. I love seeing people help other people.

• 1:20:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. And I, and I think you identified it perfectly there. It's, the real question is, are we here for the healing or are we here for us? And, and that's really the question. And if you're really in it for the healing, then anyone who's a healer, you'll appreciate them, even if their healing style is different. But that sign, that sign is so clear when you're like, oh yeah, I don't like the way they're doing it. I don't like the way, I don't agree with them. Oh, they're not. And that's, it just creates fractions and fractures internally as well. So I'm so glad you brought that up too. It's beautiful. And I think as you were talking, I was, I was piecing a thought together and it's this idea of how comfort creates self-care. But discomfort creates self-respect.

• 1:20:56Roxie Nafousi?

  Hmm, I love that.

• 1:20:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it just hit me while you were talking. And I was thinking that discomfort has actually brought me so much more than comfort. And now I appreciate comfort more because I know I can get into discomfort when I need to. And so the self-respect that comes from discomfort creates such a confidence and a swagger and an energy that then you cradle with comfort when you need to.

• 1:21:30Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Jay Shetty?

  As opposed to when you've only cuddled and comforted the whole time. It's really hard to then have that feeling of self-respect. So every time I go through something tough, I'm like, God, I did that. Like every time I break through something, I'm like, I can do hard things. Like I can do really tough stuff and that builds self-respect. And self-respect is what I need in order to function in life, to build self-worth, in order to

• 1:21:54Roxie Nafousi?

  Totally.

• 1:21:54Jay Shetty?

  Have self-belief. Does that, yeah?

• 1:21:56Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, I love that. I love that. And I think you're absolutely right. I mean, there's no better feeling than doing something that you thought you couldn't.

• 1:22:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Roxie Nafousi?

  Or being able to have that mindset, you know, even little things.

• 1:22:07Jay Shetty?

  Little things, yeah.

• 1:22:08Roxie Nafousi?

  Like for me in my ice bath yesterday, six minutes, I was like, this is so hard.

• 1:22:12Jay Shetty?

  Six is good. That's amazing. Six is amazing, yeah.

• 1:22:15Roxie Nafousi?

  I was like, I'm so cold. Ah, and I just like tapped into that kind of mental strength. I was like, discomfort is okay. And afterwards, I felt so proud of myself and it's quite similar to self-trust. I always say like, follow through with things that you say you're gonna do because that builds self-trust, which again impacts that self-worth, that self-esteem, that self-confidence. You know, every time we say to ourselves, I'm not gonna drink tonight. And then you go out and drink, you're losing that self-trust. Or when you say, I'm gonna finish that, you know, assignment today and then you don't. You're losing that self-trust. But when you actually do things like You know, push through discomfort, or you follow through with things that you say you're going to do. You're building self-discipline, self-respect, self-trust.

• 1:23:00Roxie Nafousi?

  And all these things combined is what is making you feel more empowered, more confident. And in that empowerment, you take steps that you never thought were possible, to live a dream that you feel so proud of.

• 1:23:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. And it's doing, what's really hitting me right now with what you're saying is that it's doing hard things that are meaningful to you. The challenge is a lot of us are doing hard things that are not meaningful to us. So when you break through something hard, that's not meaningful to you, it doesn't feel great. And so I do believe people are doing hard things every day. I do believe people are working hard every day. I do believe that people are struggling every day. But often it's towards something that isn't important to them. And so if we can find a way to do hard things that are meaningful to us, that can unlock a whole new mindset and make it easy to manifest.

• 1:23:56Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah. Brits, I was talking to someone about it yesterday. There is this kind of feeling there that life is hard and it should be hard, but in the wrong ways.

• 1:24:06Jay Shetty?

  Yes, right.

• 1:24:07Roxie Nafousi?

  You know, whereas this is like, well, we're talking about something very different. It's like, and I just really resonated with that, that it is about working hard for these things that are meaningful.

• 1:24:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, well, it's what you said earlier, and I love that that's where you start with just being clear about your values and knowing what you want and not wanting something because someone else thinks it's cool. Like, I do think that there are, there's a mindset in the world where it's like, it's cool not to care. And then, right, and then there's a mindset the other way where it's like, it's cool to really care. And it's like, and it's like, both are fine, but just choose which one you want to be like, you know. It doesn't like, some people are like, oh, it's cool not to care about what you wear. And then some people are like, no, it's cool to care about what you wear. Neither is right or wrong, but most of us subscribe to one because of what people around us think as opposed to, that's how I want to be.

• 1:24:52Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:52Jay Shetty?

  And, and I think that that's the freeing element of all of this. It's like, how many decisions can you make in your day that were made because they were decisions you wanted to make? Not because someone wanted you to make them, not because someone forced or influenced you. But that you knew they were right for you. That's really what we're talking about.

• 1:25:12Roxie Nafousi?

  Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

• 1:25:16Jay Shetty?

  Roxy, it's been so fun talking to you. You are, you're definitely a kind, warm, wonderful person in person too. And I'm glad that we both found the courage to become ourselves in public because when you said that too, I can resonate with that so deeply where even for years, I was just like, yeah, I, you know, you have to kind of play this role that you don't want to play. And I'm so glad I let go of that. I'm so glad you did too.

• 1:25:41Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Jay Shetty?

  Uh, but for everyone who's been listening, I want you to go out and grab a copy of Manifest, Seven Steps to Living Your Best Life by Roxy Nafousi. Please do not, uh, miss out on grabbing this book, the seven steps. We talked about a few of my favorite ones today. There's so many more and I'm hoping Roxy will come back. For her next book, uh, but please do grab this, please do use it, use it practically, use it as a workbook, not just a reading book. Uh, because that's what it's built to do. And Roxy, we end every On Purpose episode with a final five.

• 1:26:11Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Jay Shetty?

  So I hope you haven't been practicing too much.

• 1:26:14Roxie Nafousi?

  No, I haven't. I've just in this moment, I remember you did the, did you do the first one with Alex Cooper?

• 1:26:20Jay Shetty?

  No, no, we've done final five forever, but that I'm gonna do.

• 1:26:22Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, was there a new thing with her?

• 1:26:24Jay Shetty?

  That's many sides of you. We'll do that.

• 1:26:25Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 1:26:26Jay Shetty?

  Usually the final five when it's someone's first time and sides afterwards, but I'm on a boat with you.

• 1:26:31Roxie Nafousi?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:26:33Jay Shetty?

  You've asked for both.

• 1:26:34Roxie Nafousi?

  What was the thing that was the first?

• 1:26:35Jay Shetty?

  Okay, good. All right. So Roxy, these are your final five. Question number one, what is the best manifestation advice you've ever received or heard?

• 1:26:43Roxie Nafousi?

  That we manifest what we subconsciously believe we are worthy of receiving.

• 1:26:48Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. Great answer. All right. Second question, what is the worst manifesting advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:26:54Roxie Nafousi?

  That if you think about something hard enough, it will appear for you.

• 1:26:57Jay Shetty?

  Number three is how would you define your current purpose?

• 1:27:01Roxie Nafousi?

  To help and inspire others to find the light within them.

• 1:27:05Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. I love that. So clear, all these answers. That's fantastic. Question number four is, I love that you talked about keeping your vision board like private and sacred and like more internal, like where do you keep it? Do you do it on a, on a board, a pad, a journal? Like what's, what's your way?

• 1:27:24Roxie Nafousi?

  I have the most basic vision board you have ever seen. For someone that talks so much about manifesting, it's actually quite embarrassing. I have really terrible handwriting, firstly, I'll say, you'll see on your sign book. But I get like an A4 piece of card and I write in felt tip pen.

• 1:27:44Jay Shetty?

  Brilliant. I love it.

• 1:27:45Roxie Nafousi?

  And that's it. I'll show you, because I'm gonna send you a picture. It's just felt tip pen, bullet points of everything. I'm not a very visual person in terms of like, I don't like using the magazines and stuff like that. It's just bullet points, to the point, all the words, all the things I want. I kind of put some headers on it. That's it. And then I tuck it on the floor, under my wardrobe.

• 1:28:06Jay Shetty?

  I love it. That's brilliant. That's fantastic. That's great. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:28:15Roxie Nafousi?

  I would love if there was a ban on bitching about other people. Like, I just think it's so toxic for ourselves. Because if there wasn't that, we wouldn't have this constant fear of what other people think. And then we would all be living in alignment. So, yeah.

• 1:28:33Jay Shetty?

  That's a great answer. Yeah. If we had the ability to evaluate and assess what people were doing and saying as opposed to

• 1:28:39Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:40Jay Shetty?

  directly going into that negativity.

• 1:28:41Roxie Nafousi?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. I love that. Everyone, the book again, it's called Manifest: Seven Steps to Living Your Best Life. Make sure you go and order your copy now. Roxy, thank you so much for doing this.

• 1:28:51Roxie Nafousi?

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:28:52Jay Shetty?

  It's been such a joy talking to you. I've loved, I've made so many great connections in this conversation, which is what I count as good conversation, is that you've inspired me in so many ways and so many ideas that came out. And I'm so grateful that you're doing the work you're doing. Thank you so much for

• 1:29:05Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you.

• 1:29:05Jay Shetty?

  leading this path to redefining manifesting.

• 1:29:08Roxie Nafousi?

  Thank you.

• 1:29:09Jay Shetty?

  And everyone who's watching or listening, make sure you tag Roxy and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on any social media platform you use, on TikTok. Share your highlights from this interview. If there are any clips or any insights that stood out to you, please pass them along and make sure you share this with a friend and start manifesting. Thank you for listening and I'll see you next week on On Purpose.

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

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  What would happen if I stopped doing it? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

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