⁠Lewis Howes: The Scarcity Belief That’s Blocking You from Making Money & How to Feel Rich Even When You’re Broke

Have you ever avoided looking at your finances? If money were a person, how would you describe your relationship with it? Today, Jay welcomes back his long time friend, Lewis Howes, a New York Times bestselling author, entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and former professional athlete. He is the host of The School of Greatness podcast, one of the top-ranked business and self-development shows in the world, where he interviews some of the most influential leaders in business, wellness, and personal growth. The conversation highlights key principles for transforming one's financial mindset, including the power of awareness, gratitude, and generosity. Jay and Lewis examine how early experiences with money influence current financial behaviors and emphasize the importance of developing a mindset of abundance rather than scarcity. By recognizing and reshaping these beliefs, financial opportunities can be approached with clarity and confidence. Lewis emphasizes on the distinction between making money easy and chasing easy money. While many seek quick financial success, they explore the pitfalls of short-term thinking and the long-term benefits of building sustainable wealth through skill development, strategic planning, and emotional resilience. The concept of mapping out financial goals is introduced as a way to create structure and direction in money management. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Identify and Change Your Money Beliefs How to Develop Awareness Around Your Financial Habits How to Shift from a Scarcity Mindset to an Abundance Mindset How to Invest in Yourself to Build Long-Term Financial Success How to Create a Clear Financial Plan for Stability and Growth How to Use Energy, Passion, and Curiosity as Valuable Currency Financial freedom isn’t just about earning more—it’s about breaking free from limiting beliefs, embracing abundance, and making intentional choices that align with long-term success. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Join Jay for his first ever, On Purpose Live Tour! Tickets are on sale now. Hope to see you there! What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:06 Awareness Around Money and Finances 06:23 How to Get Out of Debt 09:44 How to Attract Financial Abundance 14:28 Rewire Your Brain to Earn More Money 16:22 The Mindset Habit to Unlock Abundance 20:11 Create an Opportunity to Showcase Your Value 27:08 3 Skills to Create Valuable Connection 33:41 Building a Foundation for Your Dream Career 35:44 Can You Manifest Money? 41:01 What’s Your Relationship with Money? 48:32 Generosity Attracts Abundance 53:10 Lessons from Quick and Easy Money 57:55 Invest in Your Self Growth 01:00:51 Money Cant Solve All Problems Episode Resources: Lewis Howes | Website Lewis Howes | TikTok Lewis Howes | Instagram Lewis Howes | Youtube Lewis Howes | Facebook Lewis Howes | LinkedIn Lewis Howes | X Make Money Easy: Create Financial Freedom and Live a Richer Life See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 1:27Jay Shetty?

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• 2:20Jay Shetty?

  Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I'm thrilled to announce my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can experience On Purpose in person. Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth, spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to meet you. There are a limited number of VIP experiences for a private Q and A, intimate meditation, and a meet and greet with photos. Tickets are on sale now. Head to jayshetty.me/tour and get yours today.

• 3:03Lewis Howes?

  Irrelevant of whether you have money or not. When you are poor, when you're broke, when you're struggling financially, it feels really hard to feel abundant and rich. But in order to get out of it, it's not feeling worse about it. It's starting to feel better about me, better about my values, my character, my kindness, my generosity, and seeing how can I add value to others? How can I get into a richness inside of me to serve and take care of me at the same time?

• 3:31Speaker 03

  The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty.

• 3:40Jay Shetty?

  The world in which we're living today doesn't seem to distribute wealth in a way that allows people to access it. Some people have been set up really badly. They had poor access to education. They didn't really know what jobs were available. People are working really, really hard and not taking that much home. People are coming at it from a place of pain, of desperation, of stress. So everyone already knows that money is stressful. And your first point here is make money easy.

• 4:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:09Jay Shetty?

  And so I want to ask you, when someone's coming at money, our relationship with money is already at a place, it's kind of like finding love. We're desperate for it, we're stressed by it, we're paralyzed by it, we feel the pressure for it. What do you do when you're feeling all of that? What's the first thing you need to do?

• 4:27Lewis Howes?

  Step one is you need awareness. And again, you probably say this so often and people probably heard this so frequently. But if you don't have awareness on your attachment style towards money and how your nervous system is when you receive money or when money leaves you, when you have to pay your bills or give money away. I want people to create just a scenario of awareness around how you feel and how you think when you receive money, when you pay money, when you look at your bank account, when you open your purse or your wallet, and just notice, how do I feel? Do I have shallow breathing? Do I feel relaxed? Do I feel anxious? Do I feel scarce? Do I feel abundant? Just step one is have awareness on how do I feel?

• 5:11Lewis Howes?

  And how do I think about my money? The money I have, the money that's coming in and the money that's going out?

• 5:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:18Lewis Howes?

  That's step one. And when you can just have awareness around it, you can start to say, is my relationship the one that I want to be having? Do I feel really secure around money? If not, okay, what's something I can think about? First, let me think about my money story. The story of my life around money. We grow up as kids and we watch our parents in their relationship. We tend to develop the relationship style of our parents, unless we learn how to heal as a teenager and have some type of breakthrough. We're creating some type of attachment style based on what we see with our parents. But think about all the conversations your parents had around money. And if your parents didn't have a secure relationship, if they fought, did they fight about money?

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  Were you involved in the conversation about how expensive things were? About your school or sports or programs that they had to pay for they couldn't afford? Did they argue? Did they have challenges? Did they get divorced? Money is one of the biggest reasons people get divorced. It's one of the biggest arguments in marriage as well. So just notice, is my nervous system, is my body, is my energy or my thoughts stressed out around money? Do I feel scarce or do I feel abundant? That's kind of step one. And then step two is understanding your money story. Because when you can reflect on your money story, you can see what your money personality style is today. And for many years, and we can talk about both of us thinking about our past for many years.

• 6:47Lewis Howes?

  I didn't understand money growing up. We didn't have a lot growing up. We weren't completely poor, but I wasn't as, you know, well off as the other kids in my class. So I always felt a little bit beneath everyone else. And so my belief system was around that. I'm just a little bit under everyone else. Everyone else is doing a little bit better than us. Sure, we have a home and I'm going to school, but everyone's got rollerblades. I'm in sneakers. People have Nintendo. I don't have one. I'm reading a book, whatever it is. It was like I was a little bit beneath. And that started to shape my story and my personality style. So I felt very insecure around money. And when I got it, I got really excited, but I didn't know what to do with it. So I was also like afraid. I was insecure and I was just unsure of it. And it really started

• 7:29Lewis Howes?

  to shape my personality style. Now, when I was in my teen years, my dad started to make more money and started to teach me a little bit, but I was still like, just, I want to be a teenager. I don't want to think about this stuff. It seems confusing. I just want to have fun. In my twenties, when I got done playing football, I went to go pursue football, got injured. I was on my sister's couch for a year and a half and I had no money. And I just felt like, how am I going to make this work? How am I going to make money? I don't know what my skills are. I don't know what my talents are. This is in 2008 when the economy was crashing. So it kind of felt like it is right now with inflation going up so much right now and people worried about money in the future. I didn't

• 8:09Lewis Howes?

  understand. And I needed to find money mentors to start teaching me how to learn about how I can receive money and spend it in a more efficient way. And that was kind of the journey of me starting to figure this out. But if we don't have the tools or the money knowledge, then we're always going to be stuck in our money story as our money personality style. And so it's getting to understand awareness, how does it feel when I receive money and I spend money? What is the history of the story around money for me? Did my parents fight? Did I feel anxious around money? Uh, I used to steal a lot when I was a kid. So I had like some wounds around money. I had people steal from me as well. So I just had all these different wounds that I had to address and get clear on.

• 8:54Lewis Howes?

  And I had to learn how to start healing those money wounds. And again, I know this is the place to come to create more wholeness, to be healthier in your life and to become more healed. And that's what I want for people is to start to reflect on their money story.

• 9:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:07Lewis Howes?

  Write down some of these things so you have awareness first off, on why you think and feel the way you do around money.

• 9:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 9:13Lewis Howes?

  Then you can start to see how your personality style towards money now is either helping you create more abundance or keeping you in scarcity and lack. And from there, we can start to have some breakthroughs.

• 9:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, let's talk about all three because as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking that for most of us, when we get aware, we actually realize we don't even want to look at our finances.

• 9:37Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 9:38Jay Shetty?

  Right? That's how we all feel because we're so scared. And there's been such a fear built around money that it's like, I don't even want to know because I'm so scared. Now, when I get my paycheck, I'm thinking, oh God, I hope this covers my rent, my groceries, my bills, whatever else I've got to cover. And then that becomes your stress point. And then you're thinking, oh gosh, I haven't got enough to spend on this thing that I really wanted to do, or I wanted to do something for my kids or whatever it may be. So now there's stress. And so I think for most people, when you actually get awareness, you start realizing it's stress.

• 10:11Lewis Howes?

  And it's never enough.

• 10:12Jay Shetty?

  And it's never enough.

• 10:12Lewis Howes?

  I'm never making enough. And also I've got a hundred thousand in student loan debt. I have this other credit card because I wanted to go on a trip or I had a medical expense that would unexpected that came up. Like so many people are struggling to be figuring out how to get out of debt. They have this weight that's carrying them back, but they still want to feel like they're free to live a life of their dreams.

• 10:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Lewis Howes?

  They want to be able to go on a trip with a friend a few times a year. They want to go to those expensive concerts. They want to have fun still, but they're unfortunately in a lot of debt. So there's something that's pulling them back as they're trying to go forward. And they feel like there's no way to break free. They think about the rising costs of eggs, the inflation, uh, how everything is just constant. You can't afford a home anymore. All these things seem impossible to break through. But people want to feel free, but they don't feel emotionally free because of all the baggage they have in their life. And that's what I want people to start to feel is how can you feel emotionally free? So that your money can come to you effortlessly. And when it leaves you, it's not a bad thing.

• 11:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Lewis Howes?

  And the more we relax, the more we can receive. And so if I'm tight and I'm always anxious, or I'm not willing to look at my bank account because I'm afraid of what's in there. How are we able to receive more and spend more freely? And I think for many years, I was able to, I learned how to make money, but I didn't learn how to spend money. And so I just hoarded it because I was afraid to go back being broke on my sister's couch. I didn't want to go be broke again. So I just stashed it away into my bank account and just like, okay, I would just wait for it to grow. So I feel safe. But that was almost like a prison in a sense emotionally, because I didn't feel free to spend it. I was still sleeping on friends' couches. I had a million dollars in the bank and I was sleeping on friends' couches.

• 11:59Lewis Howes?

  I was sitting in the middle seat, the cheapest seat I could on buses or on planes. And I'd always be like, man, I'm so uncomfortable the next day. Like, um, my back hurts. Like, I'm just, I'm not feeling free because I was afraid, I was anxious to lose money. And that is not emotional freedom. That is not healing. And I remember thinking to myself, God, I've got, I'm starting to make money. It was like years into my business. I was like, I'm financially free, but I'm still trapped. What is holding me back? And I realized a lot of it was my money story and my money personality style that I needed to start working on. And I don't know if it's the thing that you ever like, I've arrived and I'm perfect and now I'm like this Zen master at money.

• 12:41Lewis Howes?

  It's a constant back to awareness. It's a constant practice of awareness and breaking through those limitations.

• 12:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think what I'm thinking about when I'm hearing you is if me and you went back to a place in our life where we really didn't have money.

• 12:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 12:56Jay Shetty?

  And you think about someone who's in that position, who's listening to us right now. And in their head, they're thinking, but how do I become abundant when I don't have? Well, like my natural thing is like, I'm just struggling to pay my next bill. And me and you have both been in those situations. I remember when I was growing up, I grew up in a house where we had just enough. Like, that was the language my parents used. We have just enough. And my parents would often argue about money. I remember I wasn't allowed to buy cool shoes and stuff. I'd have like the the knockoff cheapest brand from whatever, which was, I actually didn't have an issue with that. I didn't have an issue with any of it because we had food and that was my normality. But it's really interesting because the amount of times growing up, I started working when I was fourteen.

• 13:41Jay Shetty?

  And I think that gave me a really interesting sense of how hard it was to make money. Because I started working at fourteen, I used to get paid two pounds per street that I delivered newspapers on. So imagine there's a hundred houses, it's gonna take me like. Not per house. No, no, no. Per street. Per street. So I did five streets and so I'd get ten pounds at the end of the week if I did five streets. And each street would take me at least an hour, maybe, I don't know, something like that. And so I'd walk around, I'd pull this thing and I'd deliver it. And I got an understanding of how hard it was to make money. But then that became a story for me, going to your point. Making money is hard. Making money is hard.

• 14:24Jay Shetty?

  And that there's only a certain amount of money you're allowed to make at this level. Like, you're a fourteen year old. Yes. Then I worked in retail, I stacked shelves at a grocery store. I worked at a store called Morrison's, which is like working at Walmart. And there, I remember I got paid like five pounds an hour. And then you get like time and a half if you work the weekends and the evenings. All of this to say that I probably spent my whole life only seeing zero in my bank account. Because everything that would come in would pay for my phone bill, my car insurance that I paid for. Whatever it was that I was taking care of, so I wasn't relying on my parents, apart from I lived in their home, obviously. But I always felt like money came in, money went out.

• 15:06Jay Shetty?

  And my story around money was people who have money are doing something bad. So I lived in a home, whenever we went to a friend's home and they had a nice home, my family would always say, oh yeah, but they do dodgy stuff to make money. All the language around money was people with money are doing bad stuff. So in my head, it was like, oh, if you have money, then you must be doing shady stuff. Because we don't have money and we're not doing any shady stuff.

• 15:30Lewis Howes?

  You must be hurting people to make money.

• 15:32Jay Shetty?

  Correct, in some way exploiting.

• 15:34Lewis Howes?

  Taking advantage of.

• 15:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, taking advantage, whatever. So everything you're saying is so true. Because then, when I got to a point in my life where I was just trying to do good, and I had something like one hundred and fifty, two hundred million views on content.

• 15:47Lewis Howes?

  And you had no money.

• 15:48Jay Shetty?

  I was four months away from being broke.

• 15:50Lewis Howes?

  I met you this time.

• 15:51Jay Shetty?

  And I met you around this time.

• 15:52Lewis Howes?

  I met you this time, yes.

• 15:53Jay Shetty?

  And it was really interesting to me because that was the time that I was actually doing this work, which is why this book's so powerful, because I realized that I couldn't, even with one hundred and fifty, two hundred million views, it wasn't that that made money because my story and my personality style was anxious. I felt like it was wrong to make money, like that's actually what it was. I felt like making money was bad. And so until I got to that.

• 16:21Lewis Howes?

  Did you believe you were worthy of making more money?

• 16:24Jay Shetty?

  I believed I was worthy, but I believed that you had to be bad to make money.

• 16:29Lewis Howes?

  Wow, so you didn't want to be bad, you didn't want to have a lot of money and associate, I have a lot of money and I'm, now I'm bad.

• 16:35Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  I'm bad and wrong and I'm hurting others in order to help myself.

• 16:38Jay Shetty?

  Correct, because good people are poor.

• 16:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 16:40Jay Shetty?

  Right, like to be a good person of good character means to not have money.

• 16:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow, and that was based on a belief system that you developed.

• 16:48Jay Shetty?

  Over time, that I didn't even know, like if you would have told me about this eight years ago, I'd have been like, I don't know, which is why I think these reflections are so important, people. So when you're in that place, taking your story as well, taking my story, how do we start to rewrite that story now that we're aware?

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  Well, so powerfully you said that, and I remember this vividly because I met you on Halloween two thousand seventeen, right?

• 17:10Jay Shetty?

  Eight years ago, yeah.

• 17:11Lewis Howes?

  And.

• 17:13Lewis Howes?

  We, I said like, cancel the day, let's just hang out all day.

• 17:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you had a book coming out that day.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  I had a book that came out that day.

• 17:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Lewis Howes?

  On Halloween.

• 17:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Lewis Howes?

  Which is called The Basket of Masculinity. Anyways, how do we rewire our brain around money to create more abundance?

• 17:26Jay Shetty?

  When you have nothing.

• 17:27Lewis Howes?

  When you have lack. How do we rewire our brain to create abundance when you have nothing and you don't know how to earn more money? The first thing I think you need to be aware of is that your beliefs dictate your behaviors. So if you believe that money is bad, or people who make a lot of money are bad and take advantage of others. And therefore, me having lack right now means I'm a good person and I don't want to become a bad person. Then that belief is going to dictate your behaviors and you're going to stay in lack. You're going to stay in scarcity and you're going to see opportunities that only give you just enough. As opposed to opportunities that could create incredible wealth for yourself financially, but also an emotional wealth that you've never had before.

• 18:11Lewis Howes?

  So that's one of the things you want to understand is first that your beliefs dictate your behaviors.

• 18:15Jay Shetty?

  That's a big one, by the way. That's huge.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:17Jay Shetty?

  Like that, I just want to point that out for people. Like, that's so huge.

• 18:19Lewis Howes?

  Because your belief.

• 18:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's huge.

• 18:21Lewis Howes?

  Your belief got you to a place of, I am impacting hundreds of millions of people from these, these videos that I created with my talents. But I don't know how to make money with them and I don't know if I actually should because then I could be bad and wrong. Or people could perceive me as I did something bad to make this money.

• 18:39Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 18:39Lewis Howes?

  And I'm a spiritual person, I'm a monk, I've done all these things. I don't want to have that life.

• 18:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:45Lewis Howes?

  But I want to make an impact and I don't want to be poor.

• 18:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Lewis Howes?

  So I think a lot of people are struggling with that.

• 18:51Jay Shetty?

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• 19:34Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a cellar or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength.

• 20:18Jay Shetty?

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• 20:44Lewis Howes?

  Mindset.

• 20:45Jay Shetty?

  What are the other ones you hear? What are the other, focusing on that beliefs period? What are you hearing from people about their beliefs? That's my belief and that's very much my history and story, as you said. What other stuff do you hear from people?

• 20:58Lewis Howes?

  The biggest shift that will create abundance in your life is a mindset habit in unlocking wealth for yourself. And one of the big lies, or one of the big blocks that holds people back from financial opportunity is that I cannot be generous with my time, my wisdom, my knowledge, or my secrets to others. Because if I am, they will take it and run with it and I will be left with nothing. So therefore, I'm going to hoard my energy, I'm going to hoard my time, my knowledge, and only keep it to me so that others don't have good ideas or have my help. And from all the different billionaires and millionaires and financial leaders in the world that I've interviewed, I know you've interviewed a lot of them.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  There is a question I would always ask individuals who've made incredible amounts of money. And that keeps helping them create more wealth year after year. And they all say the same thing. Those who have had a sustainably good heart in the process is that you have to have a generous mindset. So the mindset habit is the first thing that you have to think about when creating abundance with your money, but also feeling abundant internally. And it's coming with generosity. So if you feel like you're stuck right now, if you feel like you have nothing. This was what you were at eight years ago when I met you. This was where I was at 15 years ago when I was on my sister's couch. I had no money. I was in student loan debt, was sleeping on her couch. I didn't think I had any skills. I didn't have a college degree yet.

• 22:28Lewis Howes?

  I was like, how am I going to make money if I don't know how to make money? And I don't have any talent or skill and I'm in debt. It didn't understand it. It felt impossible. And the thing that I shifted when I started to meeting money mentors is I needed to learn the first habit, which is the mindset habit, which is a habit of generosity and gratitude.

• 22:46Jay Shetty?

  So what did that look like then? What was the practical step?

• 22:49Lewis Howes?

  What it looks like was how do I meet money? People, people that have money, people who have success, people can teach me knowledge. I needed to come with a sense of energy, of curiosity, of possibilities and of joy. I literally wrote a list down of all these different things that I thought were my talents. I go, how can I make money? I don't have any skills. I played football and now I'm injured. What can I do for people? But I was like, well, I'm really curious. Maybe I can just ask people questions. And never did I think in a million years that I could have a 12 year old podcast, just asking questions and make millions of dollars a year. I never thought that was possible. I was in my early twenties and I was like, you know what? I've got a lot of energy. I've got a lot of passion. So let me bring passion and energy to other people and excitement.

• 23:34Lewis Howes?

  And that energy was infectious. And there's a currency that's tied to that energy of passion, joy, excitement, curiosity. That currency may not look like money, but for those who are older, who have no more passion, they're burnt out, they're exhausted. It is the highest form of currency. They want that. They crave that energy. They've burned themselves out for decades. They want to feel young again. They want to feel curious again. They want to feel excited again. And when you come to someone with that energy, you are bringing a different mindset. So the mindset of curiosity, joy, passion. Presence, like just connecting with someone and asking them a question is such a valuable currency. So we have to look into these untapped

• 24:17Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:18Lewis Howes?

  Skills, talents, currencies inside of us that are hidden to others, but inside of us, they can create magic.

• 24:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 24:25Lewis Howes?

  That's one of them. Another one is just being generous with your time, with your resources, with your ideas and helping others succeed.

• 24:34Jay Shetty?

  I love that because I didn't even know that then, but I was doing it unconsciously.

• 24:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes, you were.

• 24:39Jay Shetty?

  So I really wanted to interview incredible people, but I didn't have a platform at the time when I met you. And so I'd partnered up with NASDAQ. And by the way, just to be really clear with everyone, I didn't get paid to do this.

• 24:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 24:52Jay Shetty?

  So NASDAQ had something where everyone was using Facebook Live. And I said, hey, could I have an hour in the NASDAQ building whenever I have an amazing guest that says yes, so that I can interview them on NASDAQ Live? And they would put the picture up on the middle of Times Square.

• 25:10Lewis Howes?

  On a billboard.

• 25:10Jay Shetty?

  So now I could reach out to people I looked up to.

• 25:13Lewis Howes?

  That's the reason why I went on the show.

• 25:14Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 25:14Lewis Howes?

  I didn't know who you were until I saw, hey, I can get you on a billboard on Times Square. I go, that's value to me right now.

• 25:20Jay Shetty?

  I'm being generous and I'm trying to find a way because I don't have anything to offer.

• 25:24Lewis Howes?

  Nothing.

• 25:24Jay Shetty?

  But I admire you. And it was all people I admired. It was yourself. It was Ryan Holiday said yes. Me and Ryan had met maybe once before that, but Ryan came on that show. And there were a bunch of other authors. Deepak Chopra came on that show with me. And it was all people that I admired, looked up to for a long time. And exactly that, that's how, first of all, we became great friends off of it. But the point is, it's exactly what you're saying, that even though I felt I had nothing to offer, I had to find a way to create something to offer someone a value. I didn't get paid for it, for that show. I didn't get paid to run it. I didn't make any money from it. But it created an opportunity for me to connect with friends, to connect with people that were doing incredible things.

• 26:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:04Jay Shetty?

  And of course, allowed me to showcase my talents so that then I could show it to other people. I remember I had Ryan Harwood on the show, who founded Pure Wow. And he just sold it to Gary Vee.

• 26:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:15Jay Shetty?

  That's how I met Gary. So Ryan came on my show and he was just like, Jay, I love you. You're a great interviewer. Like, you have such great energy. He really liked my passion. And he said, you've got to come meet Gary. And I was like, no way. Like, I love Gary. And so he took me to meet Gary for the first time. We had a meeting in his office. And that's how I built my relationship with him. It was all thanks to Ryan. And so when you think about it now, like when I'm, oh, I've never thought about it until what you're saying.

• 26:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 26:39Jay Shetty?

  Now, when I look back, Ryan's been on the podcast like four times now, whatever. I love his books. So many relationships came out of that. And so I think when you live in a world of, I have nothing to offer, and I don't have anything, it becomes really hard to create.

• 26:53Lewis Howes?

  And most people think, when I have nothing, I need to take from someone else.

• 26:58Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  I don't have anything, so I can't give anything if I don't have it. So I need someone to give me money right now. Because I'm broke, I'm poor, I'm stuck, I'm stressed, I'm anxious. I can't think out of myself. And this first habit is really gratitude and generosity is the gateway to abundance. And it may not mean you're going to make money right away.

• 27:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Lewis Howes?

  You didn't make money by having me on the show right away. But we became friends. I helped you, you helped me. Over time, we helped each other create more abundance together. Not only financially, which we've done together, but a type of richness that isn't about money. And this book, again, it's, it's a money book, but it's really like, it doesn't matter how much money you have if you don't feel like you have a rich life inside of you.

• 27:45Jay Shetty?

  That's real.

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  It does not matter how much is in your bank account, how big your net worth is. If you don't feel like you have an abundant life, if you're stressed, if you're overwhelmed, if you're anxious, if you're constantly in drama, that is not abundance. A high net worth does not mean you are free. And the goal is for us to feel free every moment of our lives as often as possible and allow money to be a tool to create incredible opportunities, memories, moments, where you can be generous with it, with the people you care about, the causes you care about, the institutions you care about, to serve more people and feel good about doing it, not feel bad about doing it. And that's

• 28:29Lewis Howes?

  Part of this process, most people, when they lack money, they want to take from others. They want someone to help them and you need to flip it on its head and say, how can I help others? Even when I have nothing, that is the time to be more generous and in more gratitude and say, thank you for this opportunity, even if you have to just lie to yourself for a moment and say, I'm stuck, I'm on my sister's couch, I have no money, I'm four months and four months, I'm going to be out of an apartment and I don't know where the money's coming. Just say, thank you, God, thank you, your universe for this opportunity to learn.

• 29:00Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:00Lewis Howes?

  This opportunity to grow, uh, cause I'll never be here again. I interview, I don't know if you've had Ken Honda on, but he wrote-

• 29:06Jay Shetty?

  Happy money.

• 29:07Lewis Howes?

  Happy money.

• 29:07Jay Shetty?

  But I haven't had him on.

• 29:08Lewis Howes?

  Dude, he's so cool. I love this approach to this. And he's talking similar style about how do you just live a rich life? Irrelevant of whether you have money or not. And again, this is what I want people to get to. When you are poor, when you're broke, when you're struggling financially, it feels really hard to feel abundant and rich. And we want to start shifting our thoughts or emotions and our energy on, okay, I know I'm in this financial situation, it doesn't feel good, but in order to get out of it, it's not feeling worse about it. It's starting to feel better about me, better about my values, my character, my kindness, my generosity, and seeing how can I add value to others? And that's the first thing we need to be thinking about.

• 29:50Lewis Howes?

  How can I get into a richness inside of me to serve others? And take care of me at the same time. And one of the practices or these social experiments or exercises similar to you that Ken has is that whenever money comes to him, whether it's a check, whether it's a Venmo payment, whatever it might be, he just says thank you to that money. He looks at that number, if it's a penny, if it's a million dollars, if it's your, your normal check you get coming in, in the mail every two weeks, he looks at it and says, thank you. And literally opens his heart and loves that money that comes to him. He says, thank you, where do you want to go? Do you want to go into my bank account? Do you want to go to my savings? Do you want to go to investments? Do you want to go towards paying off debt? Do you want me to give you away?

• 30:36Lewis Howes?

  And it might be a weird kind of like

• 30:37Jay Shetty?

  No, I like it, yeah.

• 30:38Lewis Howes?

  exercise. But I love this approach to just being mindful of money when it comes. Say thank you. And then when you pay bills, when you pay off debt, say thank you as well. Thank you for allowing me to pay off this debt. Thank you for paying my cellphone bill so I can call my friends and family that I love. Thank you for the ability to live a richer life.

• 30:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 31:00Lewis Howes?

  And when we start to approach money in that way, it doesn't mean money's got to fall from the sky and come to us abundantly. But we're going to start to feel more rich and abundant internally, which that energy is what will attract more opportunities. Those opportunities could lead to millions. This hostess that came to you, she brought that thankful energy, that present energy, that loving, joyful, curious energy. And it created an abundance of opportunities.

• 31:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 31:30Lewis Howes?

  And connection.

• 31:31Jay Shetty?

  You've reminded me of two really amazing things that I love that I want to throw out because they're not us. It's about other people.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  Tell me.

• 31:38Jay Shetty?

  Last night I was at a premiere of a new show coming out on Hulu called Deli Boys. Uh, it's a full South Asian cast. I was really excited to be just at the premiere and just seeing my friends like, you know, do this amazing thing. And it was fascinating because me and Lily Singh were together, you know Lily. And so me and Lily were together and we're hanging out. And this guy said, hey, can I film you for two seconds? He was working at the event and I believe this is what he does on his own. I, I don't know his name, but I'll have to find it. And he took a quick swipe of Lily, like one shot. And she was like, oh my God, Jay, you gotta do this. He took a quick sight with me. He edited it on the spot and he created this amazing reel of the event. Like, and he was doing it with quick, and he was taking like two seconds of our time. And me and Lily both turned around and go, is this what you do? Like, how can we work with you?

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 32:22Jay Shetty?

  And like, you know, because it was, it was such a great skill and he was showcasing his talent.

• 32:27Lewis Howes?

  He didn't charge you?

• 32:27Jay Shetty?

  He didn't charge us. He didn't ask for us or anything. He showed us his talent and all of a sudden, both of us were like this. A few months ago, I went to a restaurant that I'd never been to with some friends. This wasn't like a fancy restaurant, just, you know, it was a, it was a great restaurant, but it wasn't like fancy or anything like that. The, uh, lady who was, um,

• 32:48Jay Shetty?

  Uh, hosting, she had so much energy and so much passion. She was like taking our order, but then when we asked her for recommendations, she knew every detail and like, she got three job offers at that table. Me and my friend and everyone like, what do you do? What do you wanna do?

• 33:03Lewis Howes?

  Let's hire you.

• 33:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, let's hire you because we just, there was such an energy. And so what you're saying is so true because I'm now looking back at my own life. And thinking about moments where I've had that visceral reaction to someone. And she was like, this is what I wanna do. This is my dream. And one of my mates was like, all right, well, let's connect. Like I, you know, he, he thinks she could work with him. But it was again, the same thing you're saying. It was just energy and passion.

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Energy. She didn't have any other, she didn't have, it didn't matter about her college degree.

• 33:30Jay Shetty?

  We hadn't even looked at it.

• 33:30Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't matter what skill, other skills you have. If you have energy, passion and a curiosity to care about someone, you can go so far in that potential relationship.

• 33:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 33:41Lewis Howes?

  Speaking about, you know, hostess or, or waiters or waitresses. There were studies that psychologists did around tipping and waiters. And I don't know the exact statistic. I know it was over a certain amount, but I don't know the exact percentage. But there are three things that you can do as a waiter to make more money.

• 33:58Jay Shetty?

  Oh, interesting.

• 33:59Lewis Howes?

  Getting higher tips based on psychology in these studies. One is just introducing yourself and saying your name. My name is Lewis Howes. What's your name? Thanks for being here today. Saying your name creates a deeper connection.

• 34:12Jay Shetty?

  I agree.

• 34:12Lewis Howes?

  Making a recommendation of something. You said she was making recommendations and all, you know, making a recommendation, hey, I really recommend this if you're into this, or these are the best two options I would recommend. Gets you a higher chance of getting a better tip. And complimenting the person on their food choice. I'll have the burger or the vegan burger. That's a great choice. Those three things will increase your ability to earn more tips. And it's not like you had some other skill. You just created a connection with someone. And you were trying to bring that energy to them.

• 34:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  And money is an energy and how we think and how we feel will dictate the energy we have towards it. And also you create money through your energy. And so she had a certain energy with you and you're like, man, this is amazing. You're recommending it to millions of people about this person that you just met for the first time. It's like you could create so many opportunities for not only financial abundance, but spiritual abundance by bringing generosity, curiosity, energy, joy and love to someone's life. And it doesn't have to take hours. This was five minutes of this person's time. She got three job offers over that night.

• 35:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Lewis Howes?

  She could have had a different energy and said, okay, here's your table, sit down. And she would have had nothing, but she could have went to Harvard and had all these other skills. And none of that would have mattered without the energy she brought.

• 35:38Jay Shetty?

  People who don't know this story or have forgotten about it, like D-Rock and Gary Vee. Like that's their journey, right? Like D-Rock basically went up to Gary and was like, hey, I'll just edit videos for you for free. And now he's been traveling the world with Gary for the last, God knows how long they've been working together. Yeah. And he's such a great guy and he's awesome. And it's just, but it all came from that, that idea of, hey, I'm just going to edit these videos for you and do this.

• 36:00Lewis Howes?

  And again, going back to what we said before, like when you have no money, when you're broke, when you feel stressed out, overwhelmed, burnt out, you lost your job, you feel like you need help and you may need help. And the best way to create abundance is to go from helplessness to helpfulness. So instead of saying, I feel helpless, I don't know what to do. You've got to flip in to say, how can I be helpful? How can I help myself, but by also helping someone else? How can I shift out of this negative energy into an energy of abundance, which is so hard to do when you have nothing? I remember for a year and a half, feeling trapped on my sister's couch with no money, thinking, how am I going to do this?

• 36:41Lewis Howes?

  And there just has to be a decision where you say, I am going to get up and I'm going to get out of this funk, out of this energy and choose and decide to bring energy to someone else without asking for anything in return. And when you do that, you'll start to build momentum and that's what's going to help you get to the next level.

• 36:58Jay Shetty?

  I couldn't be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there. And even if you don't love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this. Radee and I poured our hearts into creating Juni sparkling tea with adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip, you'll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality and a burst of brightness to your day. Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life.

• 37:38Jay Shetty?

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• 38:17Jay Shetty?

  That's drink J U N I dot com and make sure you use the code ONPURPOSE. I remember the day after I realized I was four months away from being broke, I must have emailed a thousand people saying, I will do anything. Here are my skills. Consulting, right? I will edit videos, I will consult, I'll run your social media. Those weren't things I wanted to do in my life, but I needed to create a foundation from which I could then invest that into what I wanted to do. And actually that year, everything I made, I invested into starting this podcast. So everything I made this year went into launching On Purpose because that's not what I wanted to do. I didn't want to edit other people's videos. I didn't want to launch social media profiles.

• 39:02Jay Shetty?

  I didn't want to coach and consult, but I had those skills. And I think this is one of the things sometimes is that we all have skills that are valuable somewhere and they may not be the skills that you want to do for the rest of your life. But the season of life. But the season of life and I think there's something to be said for that because we all want to be paid for what we love doing. But even my life today, I've, there's a lot of things I have to do.

• 39:26Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 39:27Jay Shetty?

  And there's a lot of things I love to do, and that's life.

• 39:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, like you said, the seasonal side of things, like when I was just getting started making money, this was in two thousand eight, two thousand nine, two thousand ten. I was using LinkedIn as a platform and a tool to meet CEOs, executives and business leaders. And I was helping them originally with their LinkedIn profile to, and it's just saying, hey, how can I help you optimize your profile? I see that it's missing some things here, I'll do it for free. And I did this to build relationships with them. And through that, they just all wanted to help me and give back to me. And then eventually someone said, hey, I'll pay you for this, this is really helpful. And I was like, oh, I can make money on LinkedIn. It's not what I wanted to do, but I had a skill to do it right then. So I did that for a few years. And once I had that foundation, I used that money to launch the School of Greatness as well,

• 40:14Lewis Howes?

  because I had a couple of years of runway now. And I didn't want to do that forever, but I did it for the season. I got skills, I made money, and I created a sense of freedom for myself to do what I really wanted to do later.

• 40:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What do you have to say to people who are saying that you can manifest money? Do you agree with that idea of?

• 40:32Lewis Howes?

  It's an interesting story. I was in New York last week and I said to myself, and I have a lot of these different exercises and games in the book, to just give people as social experiments. I, I think it's really powerful to give yourself experiment, because I think when you experiment, you allow yourself to explore possibilities. And when you create an experiment for yourself, you allow for the idea of magic to enter your life. So I want you to just, as you're watching or listening, I want you to say, I allow for magic and abundance to manifest in my life. I'm going to create a, a possibility that this can happen in my life. A moment, a synchronicity, someone might call me out of the blue, someone might hand me money randomly. I'm going to allow for this moment to happen and this magic to happen.

• 41:17Lewis Howes?

  So I said to myself, I want to follow my own practices, right? And I went to see our friend Mel Robbins in Boston. And then I was in New York for a few days. And I just said to myself, money comes to me abundantly and freely, and it, I see it everywhere. I just said this to myself every morning when I woke up. And when I went out of the hotel, I said, money comes to me abundantly and freely, and I see it everywhere. And I'm a magnet for money. I'm a magnet for money. I just kept saying this energy. I'm a magnet for money. I was just playful, this social experiment. And when I was at Mel's, a penny dropped on the floor. Someone was carrying a box and a penny fell and I said, oh, look, money comes to me. I see it everywhere. There's a penny.

• 41:54Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  And there's a point to this story and I pick it up and I say, Mel, do you want this? And she goes, no, it's yours. And I go, thank you. I receive. Because when I relax, I receive. And I'm a magnet for money. Even if it was a penny, I could notice it. And I was like, all right, it came to me. See, here's a win. Here's a little win. Let me do this again. The next day I go to New York City and I'm in the subway. It's freezing right now in New York. It's like 15 degrees. And I'm just saying this to myself in the subway. And as I get off the subway, I go up the stairs. And it's fricking filthy in the New York subway, right? And the stairs are dirty and I see a penny heads up. And I thought to myself, this is filthy. This is dirty. It's not valuable. It's not enough money. I don't need to pick this up.

• 42:37Lewis Howes?

  But I was like, no, I'm doing this experiment. Money comes to me abundantly and freely. I'm a magnet for money and I'm going to manifest money, right? And so I see it's heads up. I pick it up, put it in my pocket and I just say, thank you, money for coming to me. The next day I put it on my bedside table. I don't think anything of it. The next day I wake up and I look at this penny. And I said, because I'm doing this experiment every day. I'm a magnet for money. Money comes to me abundantly and freely. And I look at it as a reminder, these two pennies. Look, this is a reminder that money came to me. Maybe it's not thousands of dollars or millions of dollars. It's not something that's magically right in here, but it's a reminder that something is possible. And I flipped over this one penny. No, I looked at the penny because it was heads up.

• 43:19Lewis Howes?

  And I noticed something. I go, oh, that's really interesting. It said 1945 on this penny. That's an 80 year old penny. And I go, huh. That's unique. I haven't seen a penny that old in a long time. And I flip it over and I notice something and I get chills thinking about it. I notice it's a wheat penny. I don't know if you know what a wheat penny is. So a wheat penny looks different than a normal penny. It's got like two stalks of wheat on the outside of the penny. It's this old penny. And I look it up and I Google 1945 wheat penny value.

• 43:53Lewis Howes?

  And one just sold, I kid you not, I get chills thinking about it. One just sold, guess for how much? I have no idea. Four thousand dollars. No way. Online. One sold for four thousand dollars. Now, it's all based on the condition and all these different things, like, who knows? Maybe it's worth twenty dollars. Maybe it's worth five thousand dollars. Maybe it's worth a hundred dollars. But the idea is that there was more value inside of that penny than what met the eye originally. Yeah. And the experiment of, let me be open to possibilities for money to come to me. And what I thought was two pennies might be two thousand dollars. And all I had to do was be willing to look for it. Yeah. Be willing to pick it up and say, I receive, thank you.

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  If I didn't look for it, if I didn't set that intention, if I didn't see the possibilities in front of me, I may not have received that penny that could have been worth thousands. And it's the same thing in life. We may not see the opportunity in front of us right now. We may not reach out to the people we already know and say, hey, this is what I'm looking to create in my life. I have these skills. I have these talents. Is there anything that you need right now that I can be of service for you with? Yeah. And that's for that first year, how you created multiple six figures in that first year when you had nothing, was reaching out to hundreds of people. That was you either setting the intention, seeing that there might be possibilities, and doing the work to manifest hundreds of thousands that first six months.

• 45:20Lewis Howes?

  So by doing that effort, setting the intention, by saying, I'm open to possibilities. I'm open to receiving opportunities that come to me, but I have to be willing to look for them. I have to be willing to ask for them. I have to be willing to put myself out there and receive and say, yes, thank you. I will do this work. And that's what I think people need to be thinking about. Can you manifest millions? Yes, if you're willing to set a clear intention, if you're willing to reach out and say, here's what I'm willing to offer and add value in. I want to help you achieve these goals. You're creating more potential to manifest money.

• 45:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that penny story because I'll tell you a bit about what I do and I do a similar thing and it comes from my tradition.

• 45:59Lewis Howes?

  Do you have a money mantra?

• 46:00Jay Shetty?

  No, I we don't say something, but I'll tell you about it. Yeah. So there's a so in our tradition, there's a god or a goddess for each aspect of society.

• 46:12Lewis Howes?

  Money.

• 46:12Jay Shetty?

  And so there is God, as in there's there's one God, but then there's loads of different gods for different departments of society. Kind of like you have a president or a prime minister and then you have like the cabinet and that.

• 46:23Lewis Howes?

  Who's the money god?

• 46:24Jay Shetty?

  So it's a goddess called Lakshmi.

• 46:26Lewis Howes?

  Lakshmi.

• 46:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and Lakshmi means wealth or fortune.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  It's like luxury almost. Yeah, it's like Lakshmi. Yeah.

• 46:31Jay Shetty?

  Maybe that's where it comes from. Who knows? But Lakshmi is the goddess of fortune or the goddess of wealth. And so you would never ever put your foot on a goddess. So whenever you're walking the streets and you see pennies around, you're never meant to just walk past them. You actually may have picked them up and put them to your head. So that's kind of like part of our culture. And so whenever I'm walking around the streets of New York or LA, wherever I am on subways, I do the same thing.

• 46:54Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 46:54Jay Shetty?

  I'll always pick it up. And it's really funny because someone who's with me will be like, what are you doing? Like, you know, like, why are you doing that? I'm like, because I'm showing respect. I'm actually showing respect to the goddess of fortune.

• 47:05Lewis Howes?

  So good, man.

• 47:05Jay Shetty?

  And so that's what it is. It's like I'm showing respect to the goddess of fortune by picking it up. And usually you give that money to charity or whatever it may be. It's not, it's not you trying to keep on it. You may give it away, whatever. But the point is, you're saying, I'm not disrespecting the goddess of fortune wherever I see her.

• 47:21Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 47:22Jay Shetty?

  Because I want to have a respectful relationship with money. I actually really love practices like that. Because I think it goes back to the point you're making that we have a relationship with everything.

• 47:33Lewis Howes?

  Every day.

• 47:33Jay Shetty?

  You have a relationship with your body, you have a relationship with your mind, you have a relationship with your partner. And you have a relationship with money. And so speaking to money and speaking about money is something you have to do if you want to love that thing and you want it to love you back, right? If you never talk about your partner and you never talk to your partner, how are they going to love you and how are you going to love them?

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  Imagine you're, you know, Roddy, for the next month, you never say thank you.

• 47:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:57Lewis Howes?

  You never look her in the eyes. You never speak to her. You avoid her constantly. Imagine like your relationship's going to suffer, you know, I'm sure you guys will figure it out, but imagine that's a lifetime of a relationship. It cannot survive. And here's a great question that I want everyone to ask themselves and another exercise that I want everyone to think about right now, whether you're watching or listening. I want you to comment on the YouTube below. What opened up for you during this moment? And I'm going to give you the exercise, Jay. So imagine this door opens. And it's a person. And this person is money. It's the idea of money. It's a person that walks in, right? Is money. And could you?

• 48:42Lewis Howes?

  As an example, for people to imagine this as well. What does that person look like when they come in? What would you do? What would you say or not say? Could you, could you share kind of what that would be like for you? Money, a person walks in, they are money. They're the representation of your relationship with money. How would you show up and react?

• 49:02Jay Shetty?

  So in our culture, because it would be Lakshmi walking in, I'll show you a visual of her afterwards. You would actually bow down. Like you'd have that. And that's a sign of respect, not a sign of surrender or subjugation, but a sign of respect. Like you'd bow. You'd offer her whatever she wanted. Like you'd be like, what, what do you need? Like, what would you like? What would you, would you like a place to sit? Kind of like a guest in your home.

• 49:24Lewis Howes?

  Like a generous host.

• 49:24Jay Shetty?

  Treat them like a guest in your home. Yeah, like what would you like? Can you, can I get you something to drink? You know, whatever it may be. Obviously she's a goddess, she doesn't need anything. But the point is that's how the hospitality would still be carried through.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 49:37Jay Shetty?

  And then you'd thank her as well. Like there, you'd start every connection with a, with a god or a goddess with gratitude. It'd be like a, a genuine appreciation and an ability to share how you feel. Like I think being vulnerable and saying, hey, like it's been really tough this month. Like I'm really struggling right now. Like this is what I'm going through. I need your help, like a prayer almost.

• 49:59Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 50:00Jay Shetty?

  Of sorts.

• 50:01Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. And I asked, I've been asking a lot of people this. And so I love to hear people's responses and be honest in the YouTube comments below of your relationship with money. I asked someone close to me, someone younger, probably in their late twenties. I asked them, you know, if money walked in and you were at a party, how would you respond? And they said, I would run to the bar. I would not make eye contact. I would gossip behind their back to other people there about money. I would look down at them, but then I would use them and abuse them because I would really need money. And I would ghost them afterwards. And I go, and I go, wow. And they were like, yeah, I know. It's really bad. But they're being honest. So I want people to be honest. Like, what is your relationship with money?

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  And just imagine, if you were money and someone treated you that way, if they wouldn't look at you, they avoid you, they speak poorly behind your back. They would use and abuse you when they wanted you, and then they ghost you when they didn't want to talk to you. Do you think money would want to keep showing up in your life if they were a person?

• 51:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 51:01Lewis Howes?

  If they were a person, would they want to be in your life? Or they feel, no, this isn't a good relationship for me. And your show is all about helping people get healed, healthy and whole. And if you want to create a richer, more abundant life, you have to create a healthy relationship with money in your life. And look at it as if this was a love of my life, not in a worshiping, like I worship it no matter what, but more of like, this is a bit like a person that I love and I want to treat them with care. I want to be a great host. How can I show up? And it doesn't mean it's always going to be perfect, but how can I show up and be generous, be kind, be patient, listen, be aware, and be of service to it?

• 51:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think it makes a huge difference.

• 51:47Lewis Howes?

  Huge difference. I'm not saying you haven't had a beautiful, abundant, peaceful life as well with money. But I would bet to say that you've also experienced stress and overwhelm with money.

• 51:58Jay Shetty?

  For sure.

• 51:59Lewis Howes?

  More than having no money. And a lot of people get blocked because they know that like, oh, more money, more problems is another like money lie, right? Or money like wound that people might have. Like, I don't want to make more money because I see people who do have money. They're constantly stressed. They're not generous with it. They're stingy. They don't even tip at all. They're even more stingy with it and they have it. So what's the point of having it if they're not generous? I don't want to be like that. And there can be money traps or money wounds when you have money if you haven't learned how to heal that relationship. And so it's learning how to heal the relationship so that when you grow your net worth, you also increase your self-worth inside and feel peaceful

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  about it. You expand your nervous system, your container to receive abundantly so that it's not scary, it's not stressful. You can receive more and you can give more because you know that the more you relax, the more you receive. And when you give, it's going to come back in some way. I struggled with that. My first six, seven, eight years of making money, I hoarded money because I was afraid to go broke again. And it limited me in certain ways and it made me feel stressful and it made me feel like people were trying to take advantage of me and take my money. It doesn't feel rich, having money and living in scarce.

• 53:15Jay Shetty?

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• 54:00Jay Shetty?

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• 54:44Jay Shetty?

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• 55:17Lewis Howes?

  To be still.

• 55:17Jay Shetty?

  There was a beautiful thing that we'd always repeat in the monastery. It was like, God doesn't see what you give. God sees what you hold back.

• 55:25Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 55:26Jay Shetty?

  And so there's not this, you know, because we can sometimes become egotistical about how much we give.

• 55:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 55:31Jay Shetty?

  And it's like, well, you've got one hand behind your back. And that's, you just made that point. It's that, it's that pinch. It's that, are you giving where there's a challenge to give?

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:40Jay Shetty?

  Because that's where we're healing. You can get really egotistical, like, hey, if you were worth a billion and you signed a million dollar check. Like I've, I know people that are making three million in interest a day. Like, so you writing a million dollar check is not the same. This also applies when you have very little. So my parents who didn't make a lot, when they were giving.

• 56:01Lewis Howes?

  It felt like a lot.

• 56:02Jay Shetty?

  It felt like a lot. And so like, what we're saying is that, that this thought of being a giver has to be core to us.

• 56:10Lewis Howes?

  You know, my dad was a lot like that too. He had strangers knocking on the door that somehow convinced him to, to stay with us for like three months in the summer. Uh, who were, and he just opened his doors and said, yes, like, okay. And so he was just like, like your parents, like, okay, you need a place to stay for a week, a month, two months? Cool, we'll figure it out. We'll feed you, we'll do this as long as we feel like you're doing something good and we're trying to support you. And I think it's, you don't have to give money to feel rich.

• 56:37Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 56:37Lewis Howes?

  You can be venerate generous with your time, with your resources in other ways, with your food. It's like you can give in other ways and create a richness of life. And that's the key is to feel rich and abundant and free. And if you feel that, when you start making money, you're going to continue to feel free. The biggest trap is when you feel scarce and you start making money and you still feel trapped. You still don't feel free. That is an even greater prison in my mind, that you're living in scarcity when you have money.

• 57:12Jay Shetty?

  I mean, there's so many people right now that have the pressure to save money. Cause we've been talking about making money.

• 57:16Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 57:17Jay Shetty?

  But there's this pressure to save money. And how do you find that balance between spending comfortably? If you have the ability versus like saving for your future or your family. Like, how do you think about that version?

• 57:29Lewis Howes?

  Well, I think when you can live beneath your means and feel abundant, you've won. So when you live beneath your means and you don't need extra stuff, you've won. I just watched um, The Count of Monte Cristo the other night. It's an incredible movie of a guy who has nothing, who was born by, you know, back in the, I don't know, 1700s or something. It's a period piece. He was born of like a clerk, a guy who makes no money. And his friend was born of like some general who had a lot of money or something. And this poor kid that grew up friends, didn't have anything, but he had the world. He had no money, no possessions, but he just approached life as like, man, but here's a piece of string.

• 58:14Lewis Howes?

  Here's a rock that I can play with. Like, I can just imagine the beauty of the world and he appreciated everything, even though he had no money. And I think in some ways, it's so hard to look at that when we see Instagram and TikTok where everyone has things.

• 58:28Jay Shetty?

  That's the hard part, yeah.

• 58:29Lewis Howes?

  When you see everyone else having fun with money and going on that trip with their girlfriends, or buying that expensive car to show up to their guy friends, or getting the nice watches, or having the cool shoes and you thinking, oh, if I could really have money, then I could have these things that would make me feel cool or feel better. But if we can approach life and just be like, man, life is so good with what I have. That is true wealth. That is true abundance and happiness. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to create more if you want more. If you want to have nice shoes or a nice watch, cool. You've got to learn how to make money and you want to learn how to make money easy, not make money hard. And that that is a process in developing these skills, these talents

• 59:12Lewis Howes?

  within you and seeing how you can monetize those skills. And I'm not saying don't splurge on certain things if you want to, but you have to understand the consequences if you're going to splurge on something to have fun with friends or go on trips and spend this money that you maybe don't have, just know there might be a consequence to that later. If you have to use a credit card, you have to pay that debt with interest later. So just know there's a cost to splurging or doing spending when you don't have it. I'm a big fan of saving and investing so that you can have freedom in the future and feel rich continually and not needing to buy things to feel richer.

• 59:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. What about this idea of I want to make money quick? Like I just want to make a million dollars in a week. I want to find that hack that solves my money problems. Like what's your take on that? Is that possible?

• 1:00:07Lewis Howes?

  I've got money wounds and it's because I wanted to make easy money in my past, not make money easy. And I don't know anyone that doesn't want to make easy money. Like our ego wants it to come to us now and want to find the quick hack or the quick investment that's got a 10x in two months. Sure, there's always outliers that figure out a way to do that. But every time I've tried to do that, I've lost my money and it's been painful. And I'm like, okay, I think I've learned that lesson, but there's this new like quick, easy money opportunity. And every time I do it again, I'm like, what was I thinking? You see that others act like there's a way to do it so easy if you just invest in crypto.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  If you just invest in this, if you just do this thing, you're going to make quick and easy money. I don't know anyone who's made hundreds of millions, millions or billions who's lived that way. They might have invested and gone all in on one business and created generational wealth. Or maybe they went all in on investing in one main stock that ended up 10 or 20 Xing over time. But going the quick, make easy money way doesn't usually work and it's painful lessons you have to live afterwards. So I don't know, have you ever made quick, easy money?

• 1:01:23Jay Shetty?

  No, no, I haven't for sure. And, and I probably made mistakes when I had a bad relationship with money.

• 1:01:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Jay Shetty?

  I remember my, one of my mentors in like 2013 told me to invest in crypto. And at the time, I thought to myself,

• 1:01:40Lewis Howes?

  It's a scam.

• 1:01:41Jay Shetty?

  I've only got, like, I only, like, at that time in my life, I probably had a thousand dollars, right? Saved because I'd just come out, I'd just started working. I didn't have the money. So I was thinking, thousand dollars, what's it gonna do? Obviously, I was stupid. I didn't know.

• 1:01:57Lewis Howes?

  That also wouldn't have been quick.

• 1:01:58Jay Shetty?

  It would have been quick. It would have taken 10, 15 years. Yeah.

• 1:02:01Lewis Howes?

  That's the thing. It's like,

• 1:02:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it would have taken 12.

• 1:02:02Lewis Howes?

  We could always look back and say, oh, our friend told us to invest in this thing 10 years ago. And if I imagine if I did it 10 years, yeah, just like any stock.

• 1:02:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  If you invest in it and wait 10 years, it should go up if the company continues to do well.

• 1:02:14Jay Shetty?

  No, I've never made easy money. And I,

• 1:02:16Lewis Howes?

  Well, here's that, you actually, you actually have made easy money after putting in a decade plus of work. A decade of developing skills, of monetizing your skills and following the seven habits we talk about in this book, which is, yeah, you can make easy money now. You can get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to speak for 60 minutes because you've added so much value in the world for the past decade plus. And even a decade before that of spiritual practice, before you even learned how to make money.

• 1:02:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Lewis Howes?

  So two decades, two decades of how do I develop skills within me to serve people? Whether it be one-on-one, one to 10, one to 10,000, how do I develop those skills to serve and give generously? You have followed this mindset perfectly, which is a mindset of generosity and gratitude. And that's all you did for essentially the last two decades. How can I learn how to become a better human? How can I give generously? And how can I be appreciative and grateful for the life that I have? And you had no money for almost four years as a monk. But I would bet that you lived a beautifully rich life. You didn't need the money to feel rich.

• 1:03:29Lewis Howes?

  You felt provided for. You had nature, you had community, you were learning, you got to be on purpose, you got to serve. And what a beautiful gift to receive. And you had no money in your bank account. But you were probably one of the richest people that you knew. And that is beautiful.

• 1:03:47Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:47Lewis Howes?

  That is abundant.

• 1:03:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and that's something that definitely doesn't change with the financial change.

• 1:03:54Lewis Howes?

  If I have no money right now, how can I get to a place where you were at? Where I had the richest, most abundant life? Because I was working on me, I was a giver, I was generous with my time and my energy and my resources, whatever I had. And then how can I start to earn more money, make money easy? By feeling effortless internally, expanding my nervous system so that it can receive more and feel safe. That is a rich, abundant life.

• 1:04:22Jay Shetty?

  And that's what we're all really looking for.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  And me and you both know people who have hundreds of million dollars that they've exited companies. And they're not happy. It doesn't mean having more money equals happiness. You still have to learn how to heal you and have a healthy relationship with yourself and money, even when you have it.

• 1:04:40Jay Shetty?

  When you're looking for a quick fix and a quick win. The problem is, the speed at which you win is the speed at which you lose.

• 1:04:49Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:50Jay Shetty?

  Right? So if you think, I'll put money into this now, I'll make something in a week. Chances are, like you said, you lose it immediately.

• 1:04:56Lewis Howes?

  You lose it in a day.

• 1:04:57Jay Shetty?

  You lose it in a day. And the reason that happens is because you actually don't know why you're putting your money there. So it goes back to your first point of awareness. It goes back to something you call the mapping habit.

• 1:05:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:05:10Jay Shetty?

  The plan. Because what's going on is you're saying, I want this to happen now, I want this to happen immediately. I want this to happen quickly. So I know zero about this crypto.

• 1:05:19Lewis Howes?

  Let me just throw it in there.

• 1:05:20Jay Shetty?

  I know zero about this property. I've had friends literally gamble away their life savings because they heard all their friends were making money through crypto.

• 1:05:29Lewis Howes?

  Or real estate or whatever.

• 1:05:29Jay Shetty?

  When people say to me, I've got this much money, what should I invest in? I'm like, what do you know about? Invest in that. What do you actually know about? Like, what do you actually have experience, knowledge, wisdom in? Because guess what? Because of that, you'll make money on it.

• 1:05:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:05:42Jay Shetty?

  Because you actually understand it. Again, it goes back to the point of respect. If we don't respect our audience, it doesn't grow. If you don't respect your community, it doesn't grow. If you don't respect your clients, it doesn't grow. By us saying, I want to make money, but I know nothing about this industry. It means I'm disrespecting the industry. And sure, there may be one person who had some lucky story that they tell you about. But the truth is, most of us are not going to get there. So if you have a little bit of money and you're like, Jay, I've only got a hundred dollars to invest. Louis, I've only got a thousand dollars to invest. And you ask me where to put it, put it in what you know. Put it in yourself, if that's all you know, is yourself and your skills. And I think so many of us are looking for that ticket. But actually, that investment in yourself will pay so many dividends.

• 1:06:24Lewis Howes?

  This is, this is, I'm glad you said this because a week ago, someone literally asked me if I have a thousand dollars right now to invest, where should I invest it? And everyone says, put it in crypto, put it in real estate funds, put it in all these things. Don't listen to any of that. When I had no money, there was two things that I needed to create more of a currency within me. And that was courage and confidence. I lacked the courage to develop certain skills. When I had courage to go all in on learning public speaking or learning how to write, I didn't know those skills. I actually lacked those skills and I was afraid to be a failure at those things by trying them. But by having the courage to invest my time and energy in a public speaking class, in a writing coach. I didn't have the skills, but I developed the courage.

• 1:07:08Lewis Howes?

  That courage created the actions to create confidence. That confidence created a currency within me of belief. That belief dictated my behaviors to start charging more, to go out there and ask for more, to put myself out there in bigger ways. And so if you have a thousand dollars or five thousand dollars right now and you want to figure out where to invest it, invest it in courage to learn new skills that will give you confidence. That would be an incredible currency that you'll have forever.

• 1:07:36Jay Shetty?

  I mean, Lewis, I'm so excited for people to read this book. It's honestly, I love this conversation because we're both sitting here as people who, like you said, not, not finished our money journey either. We're, we're, you know, I've got so many years left to learn so much more. The reason why I empathize with it is I never, ever thought I'd be financially abundant, mentally or physically.

• 1:07:58Lewis Howes?

  Me either.

• 1:07:58Jay Shetty?

  And I know you feel the same way.

• 1:08:00Lewis Howes?

  Dude, I was, I thought I would never figure out how to make money.

• 1:08:02Jay Shetty?

  Same. I really empathize with everyone who's listening going, I'm stuck. I'm trying to figure this out, but I really do believe it starts with this because this is the work you'll have to do, whether you make money tomorrow or in 10 years. And no matter how much you make, you're still gonna have to do this work.

• 1:08:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:08:18Jay Shetty?

  In this book, because even if you find a way to make money and you become really, really financially successful, you will never feel free in that financial success without doing this work and you'll still feel anxious and you'll still feel stressed and you'll still feel all of that, right?

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  I tell a story in the book about, I used to live in an apartment building here in, you know, in LA. It was really sad. There's a lot of wealthy people in this building that I lived in, a lot of celebrities and billionaires. I was the poorest person there, which is another, another lesson, which is to put yourself in rooms.

• 1:08:49Jay Shetty?

  Always been.

• 1:08:49Lewis Howes?

  Where you can mastermind with people and be around proximity of people who have more, so you can learn from them. But I was on a trip and I came back from a trip, driving back into the, the valet of my building. And there was a tent in the valet, like in the driveway. And I kind of jokingly said to the valet attendant, as I pulled into the building, I said, someone didn't jump, did they? Kind of like joking. And the guy looked at me with like a serious face, like, yeah, it just happened like 30 minutes ago. And I was, I was like, this can't be real. It was like, what? There's billionaires in here, there's millionaires in here, there's celebrities in here. I was like, why would anyone in this building take their own life? And it was kind of like just this shock to me because I learned later who this person was.

• 1:09:34Lewis Howes?

  Someone did jump off the building right before I came back. And he was worth hundreds of millions of dollars net worth. You just Googled his name. And I was just thinking, why would someone worth so much money take their life? And I don't want to assume what really happened, but it doesn't mean having all the money in the world is going to solve all your problems and you're going to feel like you can love and accept yourself, that you have self-worth. So like you said, you may learn how to make a lot of money. But if you haven't learned how to heal your relationship with you, then all the money in the world can't save your life and can't make you feel rich, can't make you feel abundant, can't make you have beautiful relationships with friends, family, colleagues. And that's where the real wealth comes in life when you have deep, meaningful relationships.

• 1:10:20Lewis Howes?

  And something I want to acknowledge that you do really well is you follow this first habit, the mindset habit so well, which is how can I be generous with my time, my energy, my love for friends, family, colleagues, your community. This community feels it. Everyone listening and watching right now, feel your generosity, your giving hearts and your gratitude for them, whether it be individually or collectively. They feel it. And most people, they want to make more money, but they don't have that generosity, that grateful spirit. And they want the quick fix. They want to make easy money quick, not make money easy.

• 1:11:05Lewis Howes?

  And the billionaires that I know you know, and the millionaires that we know we've interviewed, and I'll ask them this question. What do you think the key to creating more financial abundance every year after year is for you? Every billionaire or mega millionaire will say giving more. I make more when I give more that year. Whether it be giving more to charities, whether it be giving to people in my life, whether it be giving back to my community, giving back to my employees, my business, finding ways to give more and almost give where it feels a little uncomfortable like, oh, that was, that was a big check I just wrote. Oh, man, I care about this cause, this charity. I feel safe giving this amount, but what really would make it uncomfortable?

• 1:11:50Lewis Howes?

  Or I go to church every week and I typically give this, but what would make me feel a little uncomfortable? Most of these people say the more they give, when it's the most uncomfortable, somehow they just keep earning more. And I'm not saying you should give all your money away and you're going to earn more back. But having that mindset of generosity, and you do this very well, where you give to your community, whenever there's some type of breakdown in the world, you're one of the first people to say, how can we give? How can we rally the troops? You give first, you rally the troops, say, let's give back. The fires happened, stuff happened in India a couple of years ago. Stuff's always happening. And you say, we're going to give. I don't know if that seems something conscious you think about,

• 1:12:32Lewis Howes?

  like, oh, by giving more every year, it helps me make more, but also I feel richer. And when you do that with everyone in your life, whether you're the hostess and you give curiosity, love, passion, fun, playfulness, you're giving something in that moment. If you can write a check for something that is a cause and you give, it's because you can and you do it generously, it's just going to make you richer inside. And you're creating an energy of abundance to attract more.

• 1:13:04Jay Shetty?

  I think for me, it was watching my parents. So for all the other things I said about just enough and everything, my parents always gave in charity. Our home was always a home where everyone was welcome. My mom would happily cook dinner for everyone, even though, you know, we didn't have everything.

• 1:13:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Jay Shetty?

  And so my parents had this generous heart at the same time.

• 1:13:25Lewis Howes?

  They probably felt rich in that generosity.

• 1:13:28Jay Shetty?

  And they did it when we didn't have a lot. Like my parents, now when I realize how much my parents made and how much they gave in charity, the proportions were pretty off. And I think for me, I just felt so fortunate and I feel so lucky and I feel so grateful that I have been able to find abundance in my life, that I feel like the only natural reaction to that has to be to give. Yeah. When I came back to L A with the fires and everything, I was just grateful to come back to a home. Yeah. But not everyone I know came back to a home. And so I felt grateful that I had a home. And so I was like, okay, what can we do? And so I think it comes from a place of gratitude again. It comes from a place of seeing my parents be so generous, even though they had nothing to give, actually.

• 1:14:13Jay Shetty?

  And it ultimately comes to me because I just feel like there's no better use for it in the long run than that. And I do believe it will come back in its own way. I don't give it because I want it back. I I give it because I believe there's a need. But I do deeply believe that it will come back in its own way and it always has. The book's called Make Money Easy, Create Financial Freedom and Live a Richer Life. Lewis Howes. Lewis, I'm so grateful genuinely for this conversation. It's let me feeling so rich. I've always felt rich in our friendship. And I'm really glad that you wrote about it in this way because I think there's lots of great money experts out there who are giving really good, sound financial advice. Yeah, that's not. That's not what this is. And I think we need all of it, but I think this is a deep part because I know for me personally,

• 1:14:58Jay Shetty?

  this has been really deep work and you put it into a book. And so I'm so grateful that people get to access it. Thanks, brother. Thank you for doing this. Everyone who's been listening or watching, read the book, learn the habits, tag me and Lewis on Instagram, on TikTok, let me know what's resonating with you, what's connected with you. I want to hear your stories. I want to hear what skill you invested in. I want you to turn up at your job, even if you hate it. I want you to turn up to it with all the love that you possibly have. See whose mind you blow, who gets impressed by what you're doing. Someone's gonna be able to shift your life at some point and it's gonna start with you. But just don't underestimate the value of these things that sound simple and they sound like, I've got to figure out something more complex.

• 1:15:40Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, this is where it starts and this will mean that at the end of it, you'll be happy. So, uh, thank you to Lewis, thank you to each and every one of you. And yeah, make money easy.

• 1:15:49Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate it, brother.

• 1:15:50Jay Shetty?

  It wasn't easy. I love you, man. If you loved this episode, you'll love my conversation with Dr. Joe Dispenza on why stress and overthinking negatively impacts your brain and heart, and how to change your habits that are on autopilot. Listen to it right now.

• 1:16:05Speaker 06

  How many times do we have to forget until we stop forgetting and start remembering? That's the moment of change. No one cares how many times you fell off the bicycle. If you ride the bicycle now, you ride the bike.

• 1:16:17Speaker 05

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