Brian Grazer: ON How to Become A Confident Communicator & Connect With Anyone Genuinely

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Brian Grazer. Brian is Hollywood’s best producer and New York Times bestselling author. His credits include 24, Empire, 8 Mile, Friday Night Lights, among others. Brian breaks down why tactics and strategy will never replace real curiosity and care. You’ll learn how he went from being fearful to speak in public to viewing it as a gift. His new book is out now! Face to Face https://amazon.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,

• 0:44Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and is clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. Confidence isn't something Mazda finds, it's something they practice. That's the thinking behind every Mazda. With proactive safety features designed to help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with the road ahead. It's why Mazda has been named Consumer Reports' safest new car brand

• 1:27Jay Shetty?

  and has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick+ Awards than any other car brand as of July 2026. Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Your heart can tell you a lot about your health. Apple Watch Series 12 measures your heart rate every five seconds with the most accurate heart rate sensing in wearable. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, can tell you when something is off. And your readiness score can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch Series 12. The features described are for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. iPhone 11 or later required. Based on Apple conducted study of heart rate accuracy, August 2026. Visit apple.com/aplewatchseries12.

• 2:19Speaker 02

  The movie like Eight Mile that I produced about a rapper, you know, it's a serious movie, you know, it's intense. But ultimately, it's an aspirational film. It's a movie about a kid that had to become self-actualized to emotionally survive. Wasn't even about him going off to be the biggest hip hop star in the world. In fact, that isn't what happens in the story of the movie. He just was able to say, yeah, I am white trash, liberate himself from all his emotional injuries so that he can actually look at people and know himself and dust off the mirror, as you said.

• 2:56Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you. Thank you for coming back every single week to listen, to learn, to grow. And I just want to say, I'm so grateful that you take out time every week out of your schedules, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're commuting, whether you're working or editing right now. I just want to thank you for taking out time to choose education. The fact that you're choosing to learn, choosing to develop yourselves, this is the right place to be. And today's guest is someone that I've been fascinated for so many years. We've had the fortune of having incredible curious conversations together. And today, we actually get to video it and record it on audio so that you can witness it too.

• 3:42Jay Shetty?

  He's truly got one of the most fascinating minds I've ever met. The first meeting I had with him was nothing short of brilliant. And I just want to tell you a bit about him. Now, listen very, very carefully. Brian Grazer is an Academy Award winning producer, New York Times bestselling author of A Curious Mind, who's been making movies and television programs for more than 25 years. His credits include, and this is just the tiniest list in the world, A Beautiful Mind, 24, Arrested Development, Empire, Eight Mile, Friday Night Lights, amongst so many others. His films and TV series have been nominated, wait for this, 43 Academy Awards and 195 Emmys. And Brian's new book, Face to Face, is what we're talking about today.

• 4:27Jay Shetty?

  It's the art of human connection, something I know is so important to every one of you. So please welcome to the show, Brian Grazer. Brian, thank you for being here.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 4:36Jay Shetty?

  I'm so grateful to have you here.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Thank you, of course.

• 4:39Jay Shetty?

  This is such a pleasure and honor to be sitting with you.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  I'm psyched. Yeah, I was really psyched. We both just got back from our vacations only last night.

• 4:47Jay Shetty?

  I know.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Back from Provence and got up early and you were back from, am I allowed to say Bora Bora?

• 4:51Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:53Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. I was on a three-year late honeymoon.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  You're very busy then.

• 4:58Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. But I want to kick this off by asking a curious question of my own. And I know curious conversations are your fascination.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:06Jay Shetty?

  But you're actually a painter. Like, that's something that you dabble in. Tell us about how you got involved in that.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  I got involved in painting through my daughter. My daughter was only, her name is Sage. She was three, four years old. At three, I was playing invisible Barbies with her. Where you're playing with a Barbie and then she takes the Barbie away and she goes, "Well, the Barbie's now got red hair." And I go, "I can't see the Barbie." And she goes, "Well, it's invisible." So I thought, I have to transition her to something that I, maybe we could do together, you know? Because I was, I was looking at my watch. So I think at now five years old, we decided we'd paint together, which is something I've never done. I don't, I've never played with ceramics or painted or anything before. And so I had room to have an art studio and we became painters together.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  And she soon ceased to paint and I just continued to paint and still do to this day, paint. And I use primarily acrylic, then oil, and then oil stick and often pencil to highlight or punctuate faces. Faces or usually faces nuance.

• 6:16Jay Shetty?

  Amazing.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Expression.

• 6:17Jay Shetty?

  So painting is what brought your human connection together?

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yes. Painting is what brought our human connection together and we became like completely embedded with one another on this painting.

• 6:28Jay Shetty?

  And tell me, tell me about that. What is, when you say the art of human connection, what is human connection to Brian Grazer? Like, what does that mean to you?

• 6:36Speaker 02

  It means, well, first, okay, first there's the, the set point of human connection, which begins with eye contact. And, and there's a whole story about eye contact and why I became, had a heightened awareness to it.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  But basically.

• 6:56Speaker 02

  Human connection begins with looking at, actually looking at somebody. But looking at somebody calmly and without ambition. Just looking at them calmly and feeling them. Doesn't mean you have to pause, doesn't have, you have to do any weird thing. But you just have to really look at them and, and be relaxed and be interested. And that makes somebody feel like it validates them as a human being. It makes them feel human. And conversely, you will feel human. So it just begins with that generous act.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  Now, once you've established that, you're at least on the very, very beginning of the pathway to getting to know somebody, to getting to ask questions, for them to feel like I can answer those questions. And once you're on the pathway, then you can really just let biology take over, you know? And, and you find things that are very interesting about them, they, with you. But what I'm personally interested in doing is getting to the place where we both are, you know, on a one-on-one, we're both reaching into our most authentic self.

• 8:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  Where whatever that truth is that lies deep embedded in you, whatever that is, to have some of that revealed. And I do this now always without any thought about it. And, and there is pluses and minuses to this. And I always tell people, it's like you, when you're reaching inside of yourself and you're really accessing that, you do say things that are stupid and you make mistakes. You're fallible, you're, and you're, you have to say, I'm willing to have that fallibility in myself happen. But if somebody feels your soul, they forgive that and they often really enjoy it.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  And they, it usually becomes the thing that is part of the connective tissue in this connection that you're having that was bridged through just this initial set point of looking at somebody.

• 9:16Jay Shetty?

  Wow, that's unbelievable. I don't think I'm ever going to look at someone the same ever again after that definition.

• 9:27Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. I know how important every hire is for a business. If you need to make the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed sponsored jobs helps find quality candidates when you need them most. You can reach who you need based on whatever criteria you're looking for, like skills, certifications, or location. In fact, people are finding quality hires on Indeed right now. In the minute I've been talking to you, companies like yours made 27 hires on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. That's indeed.com/podcast.

• 10:12Jay Shetty?

  Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe, listing items is a quick and simple process. And once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile.

• 10:57Jay Shetty?

  You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. You know that feeling when you're already tired and you haven't even gotten there yet? That's where Amtrak comes in. Leave the driving behind and settle into a comfortable seat with plenty of room to stretch out. Catch up on work with wifi, grab a snack at the cafe car, or just sit back and enjoy your favorite podcast. Choose a seller or Northeast Regional and get there without the stress of getting there. Visit amtrak.com to plan your next trip.

• 11:42Jay Shetty?

  That's amazing. The part that I really picked up on, listening to you, that really connected with me was without ambition.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 11:49Jay Shetty?

  I think that's such a beautiful point. I've always felt, one of the reasons why, from my monk experience, that I benefited so much, is I felt I spent time with people who had no agenda for me.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:00Jay Shetty?

  And like, being around someone who has no agenda for you, doesn't want anything from you, or isn't trying to manipulate. And this is what I find fascinating about when you talk about it in this book. And for anyone who's gonna read the book afterwards, this is what I find fascinating about the way you present it. It's not a technique or a tactic for you.

• 12:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 12:16Jay Shetty?

  It's not like this manipulative strategy for you.

• 12:19Speaker 02

  No.

• 12:19Jay Shetty?

  It's like a very genuine, authentic, what you just mentioned there. That's what it sounds like to me.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:25Jay Shetty?

  How do you help people live it in that way? As opposed to like, "Oh, Brian's taught me, I'm gonna use this tactic to get, use it as a way of getting it." How have you come to that place of realizing that human connection is beyond tactics and strategies and sales?

• 12:38Speaker 02

  That's such a great question. It's a great question. And I have a couple of funny answers. Well, one is, I've had people even recently, you know, you know, given like my movie and television success. They go, "Wow, what a great strategy."

• 12:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  I go, "That wasn't a strategy. It's just what happened." I have no strategy. I mean, I have desires, and I have, there's intentionality within the movies and television, and just my actions. There's intentionality. And, and that's sort of the beauty of it, of it all. Like, that intentionality leads you, is fired up by something, and it leads you someplace. Okay, so let me go back to your original question. So, I found that very early in my career, I'd, it was just right before I ever produced anything. So I, I had to be just about turning 24. Cause I turned, I produced something at 24.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  But I was dying to meet this guy who ran movies and television for CBS. I'll even say his name. His name was Donald March. And I wanted to meet Donald March, and he knew me, and I called him once, and it took him like, at least two weeks to call me back. So I thought, if I could get into this big Hollywood party... Then Donald March and people like Donald March will call me right back. So I found that first of all, I was in, I did get in. I found that I was incredibly uncomfortable being at this party. And I felt that it was a plan. It was a construction. It was like very artificial to me. So I did see Donald March. This is really true.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  And I totally screwed it up. And I, I got to the, I screwed it up like because I was nervous. I was out of my honest, real zone. And he literally never called me back ever again. Just because I said stu-, you know, it just didn't feel right, you know? And people can feel when things are not, that aren't, that aren't real. They can feel constructions.

• 14:46Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Particularly if you're paying attention.

• 14:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  So I kind of vowed at that time that I was never going to go to halt to any party as an ambition. I would go if I thought I could have a good time. Thought if I could be naturalistic and just like, this could be really fun. Or this could be a really interesting experience. Or this could be a really interesting adventure. When it's just a, when it becomes a real thing that I'm doing. But when it becomes like, you know, recently someone said, fly to Saudi and have this one meeting. And I thought, that's not me. I ended up going to Saudi, incidentally, and had this unbelievably wild experience. But, and which was incredibly valuable, but I couldn't go in surgical, as a surgical, ambitious strike, you know?

• 15:33Speaker 02

  So I just don't think it works.

• 15:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, I, I agree with you. It's so funny, I was just saying before this podcast, I was talking to my team and I was just saying, for me, every podcast is a genuine conversation.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:45Jay Shetty?

  I can't approach it with like, I've got to make sure like, we have to ask this to get this answer. And like, when you start constructing it like that, it's like, you lose the conversation. So what to speak of business and meetings and TV and movies? It's like anything that's artificially constructed. No, I actually love that. And, and, oh, go on.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  And I had this other flashpoint thought, when you said it's a conversation that, it made me think of this, it was my instinct about that party stuff was further ratified when I had to give a speech to all the firemen in America, all the fire captains in America, after you have, after having produced. A movie about firemen called Backdraft with Billy Baldwin and Robert De Niro and several others. And we were in Washington DC and we had to each say something. You know, the director Ron Howard and the chairman of the studio had to speak. And the chairman of the studio was really very high intellect, you know,

• 16:47Speaker 02

  very high IQ, very high intellect, very articulate, very, very. And he came, walked out on stage right before me. And I thought, wow, what's this big brain gonna do? And you know what he did? He froze. And he basically said things that were like a speech and got no reaction. And I thought in that flashpoint moment, I don't have to be that, I don't have to compete with that kind of intellect. I can just like speak from my heart and like feelings about how I feel about the selfless nature of firemen themselves. And I got a tremendous reaction without having to do that. And it was really beautiful, incredibly beautiful, actually.

• 17:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. And by the way, I just want to say when I was reading through the book, your storytelling is unbelievable. Like what you do on the screen and the fact that you can do it on the written page is unbelievable. Like I feel like I got to know people through this book. And that's what I was gonna ask you with the title Face to Face. What are conversations that in your experience do you believe must happen face to face that today we're not doing because of the distractions of technology or the opportunities of email? What are the conversations that you believe are non-negotiable have to happen face to face?

• 18:06Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 18:07Jay Shetty?

  But that we're choosing to do different?

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Well, mine with you originally.

• 18:11Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  I was immediately magnetized to your incredibly powerful eyes. Like, and I even commented, I remember, like, I just couldn't believe the sparkle and clarity of your eyes. And I didn't know that you were, I didn't fully appreciate that you were a monk. And that completely became compatible to me. I thought, wow, no wonder he had such kind, forgiving eyes.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  And I was really, again, very attracted to that. And so all of my real curiosity conversations, which incidentally, you know, mine with you, there was a professional nature to it, but I viewed it as a curiosity conversation. Because I didn't, you were, you're very, very, very well-known, and particularly by young people, and that's who introduced me to you. But I knew of you, but I didn't know of your massive popularity. And even like today, I didn't know it was the number one health podcast in the world. It blows my mind. So, I mean, because that's just so powerful. So I think any, any conversation with somebody that you feel matters, you know?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Like, I would go on these curiosity, where I still do this every two weeks, meet someone that's expert or renowned in anything I don't do. And I, they're nobel laureates, they're scientists, they're all art forms, there were, there's Jay, there's many people. And I, those conversations must be experienced through eye contact, through looking at somebody face to face. And that, by that, by creating that bridge, then you have the privilege to be curious. Then you have the privilege to ask questions. And you have the privilege of creating this amazing kind of alchemy that can happen.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  And, and all of the great insights that I've ever gleaned have come from these kinds of conversations. And I always just felt like each one of these conversations, yours included, is just like a dot in a greater constellation of dots. And I just have faith that they'll connect someday.

• 20:23Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  They don't have to directly connect. They can just live in your mind and be part of the way you curate your life.

• 20:30Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  And so, so any of those conversations are essential, have to be face to face.

• 20:37Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. And it's so fascinating you say that, because I feel like, I'm not sure I know so many people who make time for curious conversations in their lives. So it's almost like, when you say that, these are the Types of conversations we have to do face to face. I'm almost going through and thinking, how often do we make time for that? Is that something you've made time for forever? Is this a habit that you cultivated and practiced for decades? Because I think a lot of people would look at it and be like, oh, Brian, of course you can do that now because you have really cool friends to hang out with. But I'm guessing this is something you've been doing for years and years and years and years.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did this, started this the day I graduated college, actually. So I've, I've done it completely dead broke, owing people money. So just graduating college, owing money on, I don't want to go through it. But, but, and then I've always, I've always done this and I created it as I, as a discipline that I would not fail at, you know, I would, I would not, I would always do, I'd be obedient to this. And, and I would have to grovel and beg and, you know, when I'm the movies, my very first movie Splash, I did some other things preceded it, that made me well known, but not well known enough.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  I mean, I wanted to meet Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb. And, and for a bunch of reasons, I don't have to agree with somebody. I just have to be interested in them or the excellence or their process. But it took almost three years for him to finally say yes. Jonas Salt took, I mean, I years, but I just kept, if you do enough homework, which you have to do, and you're persistent and you're politely persistent, often I would have to wait till like one of their, one of those people's assistants had just quit and they have a new person I can actually follow to their car or something, I don't know. But so, no, I've done it for my whole life.

• 22:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  It's really a way to enlarge in my life. So it enlarges my mind, enlarges, creates elasticity in me, you know, emotional capability. And then of course it just, you gain these fantastic insights that you can transport to something.

• 22:58Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are. But it can be challenging to balance style, budget and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favourite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop with more confidence. And if putting it all together sounds like a headache,

• 23:42Jay Shetty?

  Wayfair can handle delivery, installation and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980. That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colours,

• 24:28Jay Shetty?

  high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision-making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbour, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state, coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

• 25:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, it comes across, it comes across so genuinely in the way you tell it in the book, but also the way we've connected. And I think that's what everyone who's listening or watching right now, the one thing I'd love for you to do, if you're sitting back at home or you're in your car, is start scheduling curious conversations, like start finding people that you're curious about, not just professionally, like notice the difference here. It's not about a professional meeting, it's not trying to get a deal, it's not trying to close something, it's about finding someone that you're genuinely interested in that sparks your curiosity. Like you said, could just be a dot that one day might connect. And I love that. And I'd highly recommend that we schedule more. For me, the podcast is that. Like the podcast is just like this beautiful way of just getting to like dive into someone else's mind with no need apart

• 25:53Jay Shetty?

  from wanting to learn and grow. So I couldn't agree more that it's powerful. One of the things that I'm really intrigued by is one thing that I think you can help us with. We live in a generation today where people's attention spans are just getting squashed. And so today, now you're not competing against another person, you're competing against a phone. So the phone has access, like can anyone be more interesting than a phone? Because a phone has access to everything, right? That's the question. How do you, how have you developed patience to stay interested in someone, even when you're wondering, what is the connection here? I'm not even sure I'm learning. Like when you're finding it almost difficult, how have you stayed interested in

• 26:37Jay Shetty?

  someone when you don't have a common denominator? Because I feel today we look for commonalities, and if we don't find it, we're like, there's nothing to learn. Does that make sense?

• 26:45Speaker 02

  It makes total sense. It makes total sense. Well, how do I stay interested?

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, you don't have to stay interested. There could be, there's a point where if you feel like you're forcing it, or they're forcing it, then you don't have to, you know, you just always want to be polite. Because you, we all want goodwill, we all want the wind blowing to our back. You know, but, but it's often, it's very unique, like only, just before our trip, about six weeks ago, I had an Uber driver, and I go, I said, and what's good is they don't initiate conversation, so I will initiate. I said, where are you from? And he said, he's from Serbia. And so we got into this conversation.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  It led me to martial arts. And I said, well, I've taken many different martial arts. I mentioned, he goes, have you taken this Russian martial arts called Sistema? I said, no. So I go, will you drive into my house? So instead of just dropping me off, he drove in. I got all of his contacts because he also said that his mother-in-law has seen me before. Anyway, I believed, you know, I felt safe, you know? And then I then said, can I, will you charge me to teach me this martial arts form called Sistema? He said he would. So I had him come over.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Even I had a broken wrist at the time and I still did it and learned Sistema, which was a very different kind of a form of martial arts. And I was really glad to do that, but I didn't know that would happen.

• 28:27Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  I didn't know that after the Paris terrorist attacks several years ago, that that Uber driver was dropping us off at the Ritz Hotel. And I asked him this question about the tax and I said, well, I want to know how it made people feel like just, how does it make you feel one-on-one on the street? Not just what the news is. And he said, shame. And I thought that was really interesting to me. And I understood it because I understood that it meant to them that they don't have the strength themselves to protect themselves. So it was about protection because there were victims recently of two terrorist attacks.

• 29:11Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  So you just learn a lot if you just are open-minded.

• 29:15Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes. So you can learn from anyone and everyone.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  You can learn from anyone and everyone.

• 29:19Jay Shetty?

  It doesn't need to be someone that you've admired or looked up to. It could actually be.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, you just have to not get ahead of yourself and hope that it has some material reason for you. And then it kind of happens, something, something almost always good happens. And you're so right, like in your health podcast, it's like we're living in like, you know, an epidemic of loneliness and it's just accelerating. We're, we're so connected, but the possibility of loneliness is even more because of what you just said.

• 29:50Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  And. The thing that you could speak to, I mean, is that everything, there's a metric for it within our medical system, except internal pain. And loneliness is, there's pain and you can't measure it. And I just think this thing of looking at somebody is the beginning of getting out of pain.

• 30:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  And it might be the beginning of a movie, or a television show, or just confidence itself. You know, like having confidence can really, you know, is really valuable.

• 30:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and let's touch on confidence, because I think you're so right that like, sitting and talking to someone can actually be really scary and almost feel like you're naked, like you feel like someone's looking at you. And especially when, like you said, like you talked about looking at someone, you know, with compassion, without judgment, but often we're looking at people and it's very piercing, or you feel pierced by people's look. How do we develop, like, okay, stepping in face to face, but how do we kind of break down those barriers that we have of feeling really scared to be looked at, or to see, which I think so many of us have. Like, we look away when people look at us, like, we try and avoid eye contact, because we feel kind of nervous by it.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I think you would probably attest to this, is that, I mean, everybody, the number one of the number, number one, two, or three fear is public speaking.

• 31:19Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  I could not, I was, well, my first year in college, as a freshman, I was in a public speaking class, and it was 125 kids, his name was Mr. French, I can say this, there's some names I can't say. And Mr. French took me aside at the end of the class, and he said, "I really would like to recommend that you discontinue college."

• 31:41Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  It was like the most discouraging thing, I really, because I couldn't. I couldn't do it. I couldn't public speak. I couldn't speak in this class. So he really thought I should go to an occupational school and discontinue college. And so that's how acutely nervous I was. But somebody said to me one day, just think to yourself like you're just giving somebody a gift. Start off by saying, I'm grateful to be here. That will be the beginning of how you can loosen up. I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful you're here having me. And it's the same thing with eye contact.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  You don't have to say I'm grateful, but you can feel like, you know what? Everyone is feeling what you're feeling. If you look at somebody calmly and go, hey, how you doing? Something good will happen. It will be very, very unusual if something good doesn't happen.

• 32:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's so true. I love that.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  So I think of it as just a nice thing to do, just a polite thing.

• 32:45Jay Shetty?

  Oh, 100%, 100%. And I think you're so right that it can be an internal thing.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:49Jay Shetty?

  It doesn't need to even be verbalized. It doesn't need to be vocalized. It can be internal. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  If you start feeling that, it's kind of like, I had some very famous guy say to me, I knew you, before you made your very first movie, Night Shift. And now you've made all these movies and won Oscars and stuff like that. But I know you, Brian. Have you ever looked in the mirror and kissed the mirror? And I'd said, no, I haven't. So it just means like, take a minute to love yourself a little bit. And then give that to other people.

• 33:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, no, 100%, 100%. And I think that that's so much of it, that if we've never looked at ourself in the eye, it's hard to look others in the eye.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:34Jay Shetty?

  Right? Like it becomes more complicated. It's like if we've not been able to truly see ourselves, then how can we allow others to see us truly as well?

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:44Jay Shetty?

  And I feel like, no, you've inspired just now. I've never said that before.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  You've never said it?

• 33:48Jay Shetty?

  I've never said that before in my life.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I thought you must have already concluded that.

• 33:52Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no. I've literally just said it right now in this conversation.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Well, that's, but it's heavy.

• 33:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's just, you know, to be truly seen, one has to see themselves first.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:01Jay Shetty?

  To allow others to truly see you. And I definitely experienced that in.

• 34:07Jay Shetty?

  There's a beautiful analogy in the Vedic literatures of a mirror of the mind. And it said that when we first try and see ourselves, the mirror is very dusty. And so you can't see yourself. So when you try and wipe the dust, the first thing that happens is the dust comes in your face. And so it's actually quite a tough process to start seeing yourself. And then finally, when the dust disappears, you can then see yourself clearly. So a lot of us are going through that dusting phase of trying to see ourselves clearly. And therefore, the people that we want to show ourselves to, we can't because we're still trying to see ourselves.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wow, that's very heavy. I love, I love knowing that.

• 34:43Jay Shetty?

  Sorry if it's too heavy.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  I love that I, well, I, you know, just like, it's also just as a personal validation. I kind of felt like what I said to you is what I felt, but now it's further validated by, you know, you know, body of work.

• 34:58Jay Shetty?

  Well, when I was reading through the book, all I was doing was nodding all the time. But what I found different and what I love about the storytelling, I'm trying, I know you're telling some great stories from there. And I want everyone else to go and get the book too. But the thing in the book is that the way you tell stories is it's effortless, but it's also from your deep observation and analysis, right? Like it's you, you deeply observe details from what people are wearing all the way through to their lips.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  I think everything matters.

• 35:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and it does. And that's what I loved about the book. And that's what I'm validating back is that I truly believe that becoming an expert in observation is, is everything because if you genuinely are observing the seen and the unseen.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, that's really smart. I love it. I like, I learned from you. No, I love it.

• 35:46Jay Shetty?

  You're inspiring everything we're talking about.

• 35:48Speaker 02

  I mean, you went through the discipline of becoming a monk, which is I, and I so admire that. It's, but it's really true. You have to be deeply observational.

• 35:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Well, we'd have the awkward task of having to walk down the same path every day and having to find something new on it. Like that was one of our tasks, like we were told to walk down the same path and have to find something unique every time. Yes. Wow. And it was like, it's hard after a while. Like it sounds easy, but after a while, you really have to look. And I think that's what I'm seeing in you is that you're meeting all these people that everyone in your industry meets, but you're able to meet them uniquely.

• 36:22Speaker 02

  I do. Right?

• 36:24Jay Shetty?

  That's what you're teaching me.

• 36:25Speaker 02

  I definitely do.

• 36:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  Many people have met all the people I've met.

• 36:28Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  But don't see what I see or feel what I felt from just like could be a millisecond, just some little nuance or a question that they turn away from and you wonder why. And it means something.

• 36:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  How many days did you do that particular thing, though?

• 36:45Jay Shetty?

  That we did for about 30 days. So.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  And you had to articulate it?

• 36:51Jay Shetty?

  Yes, we had to explain every day and often they would, they would play with us in the sense that we were asked to find a new stone every day. And so what you would do, what your, what your material manipulative mind would do is it would find two stones and then you'd say, okay, I'm going to show this one today and tomorrow I'll talk about that one.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 37:08Jay Shetty?

  And the next day, the monks would say, okay, now we're not looking for stones anymore. We're looking for new flowers. And your ego mind loses and you're like, oh, man, like, you know, and it's just great because it just crushes your, your ego and your manipulative mind to show you that life doesn't work like that.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 37:23Jay Shetty?

  You've got to really be present. It's not just about manipulating the answer. Anyway, so.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  You can't start developing patterns and outsmart it.

• 37:30Jay Shetty?

  Correct. That's correct. And we think we can, right?

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, we think we can.

• 37:34Jay Shetty?

  How have you let go of control in these conversations? I feel like when you're in these difficult meetings or you're in situations, even when there may be a bit, how do you let go of control? Because when I'm reading this, it sounds like you're able to really detach.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 37:47Jay Shetty?

  From where things are going and allow it to naturally flow. How have you given up control over these?

• 37:51Speaker 02

  That's a good question.

• 37:52Jay Shetty?

  And I know it's, take it as I think about it.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Well, I think, I know what you're saying. I think I trust that I'll have something to add because I do come to all these conversations prepared.

• 38:08Jay Shetty?

  So how do you prepare? Tell me that.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Well, I would read something about somebody, you know, I would read, but, but I, I leave some things unsaid. I knew you were a monk when we met. I knew that you did that. And I knew certain very important facts, although I didn't know it was the number one podcast in the world. But I knew some very important facts, but I wanted to be fresh and have it be real. So when I meet you, I can discover with you and you will say something to me that will lead to something else that I don't know the answer to.

• 38:43Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  And that becomes really fun and it becomes exciting and, and becomes like, you know, I don't want to sound weird, but it becomes like your best date then like you're, you're, you're in the zone of something cool, you know, like in that vertical line, but you don't know where it's going and how it's gonna, how it's gonna produce life.

• 39:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  And so that's really fun for me. Um, I, you know, I am scared sometimes of if there's nobody, if it's silent, but I just get through that.

• 39:16Jay Shetty?

  How do you, how do you deal with awkward silences in conversations? I think that's something that everyone who's listening right now knows that whether you're on a date or you're at dinner with friends, there's so many awkward silences and you're sitting with hugely influential people and there's those awkward silences. How do you navigate those?

• 39:31Speaker 02

  I'm not beyond like groveling go, I might just go like, oh, come on, what are you thinking about? Or, and if I get nothing, then I'll say, I'll do the, I will, I will turn a fact into a question. I'll go, did you know the following thing? Did you know that song from Gucci Mane just dropped last week? Or I'd say, um, I was just, I went to the Atacama Desert and have you ever been? They go, no. And they just know, I go, well, I went because I was searching for the greatest night sky in the world. And my wife said it, there's two places and one of them is the Atacama Desert in northern Chile. So we went to it.

• 40:12Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Or I could say, everyone can go like, how's your family? Where's your vacation? What do you like to eat? What do you hate to eat? You can go, you can invent stuff.

• 40:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And this is part of what you're saying. Like, I feel like there's such a need for us to become better conversationalists.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:27Jay Shetty?

  And, and I feel like we've started talking in abbreviations and acronyms because of social media. So like, I, I like, you know, like you would, it's such a normal thing when your partner is out to message them and just say milk. Like you would just say milk in a message and they know that that means get milk.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:46Jay Shetty?

  And you know what that means, but then when you turn that into a conversation and you start talking and like you see them walk out the door and you're like, milk?

• 40:52Speaker 02

  With nothing else.

• 40:53Jay Shetty?

  And with nothing else. And it's like so much of our conversation gets shrunk into abbreviations and acronyms.

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yes, it does. No doubt, for sure.

• 41:00Jay Shetty?

  Just stuff. And I'm just like, but there is a need. What I feel you're doing is you're telling us to expand our vocabularies and our minds to actually dive into a real conversation and stop talking like we do on small text messages.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Trust that an act, trust that an actual conversation will produce something of value.

• 41:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 02

  You don't have to know what it is, but I guarantee it will produce something of value.

• 41:21Jay Shetty?

  Even if it's awkward at first. Yeah. And I love preparation and trust. I think those are great practical takeaways for everyone listening. That preparation and trust together.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:30Jay Shetty?

  Is a beautiful synergy.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have to do preparation.

• 41:34Jay Shetty?

  Yes, you do.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Because then you're not, that's not fair to the person you're calling up or texting or emailing, can I meet you? You have to do some preparation.

• 41:42Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, correct, correct.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  And there's no shortcuts.

• 41:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And just for everyone's information, this is the research we do for all our guests. Like we go and dive in, like it's prepared. And, and at the same time, I love, the reason why I'm validating preparation and trust is that's how I approach this conversation of we're very prepared, we're very researched, but at the same time, I just want to have a real exchange.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:01Jay Shetty?

  And so I'm not tied to that framework.

• 42:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:04Jay Shetty?

  But the framework gives you a foundation to then build on.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:08Jay Shetty?

  Right?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  I mean, like, look, there are times, yes, there are times where I'm interviewing somebody and I know their body of work, but I, they just written a book. And I sometimes say to my wife, Veronica, should I tell them I read it? And then we always conclude, no. Say, I heard about it. I heard it was amazing, but I haven't had a chance to read it.

• 42:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Uh, but you can choose whatever you want to choose. That's my choice because I don't want to get busted.

• 42:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Because then it just kind of undermines the whole thing. So.

• 42:35Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  So you can't do everything, but you can do enough. You can do something, you know, you can, we can all prepare a little.

• 42:44Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:45Jay Shetty?

  I love that. One of, one of the things that fascinates me about your work is this theme of redemption.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:50Jay Shetty?

  Like this consistent theme that keeps coming back up. And I think that with communication. Even within face-to-face communication, redemption is such a need in our lives.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:00Jay Shetty?

  Because I think we

• 43:02Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 43:02Jay Shetty?

  We regret what we've said. We feel pain by what we've said or heard from others. Like, communication has so much weight to it when it's been done negatively that redemption is something that we all need. Where does that, why is that theme so striking for you? And, and how have you seen that kind of play out in your work?

• 43:21Speaker 02

  Well, okay, so redemption.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, my goal with making movies or television shows, or whether it's Friday Night Lights, where they lose the game originally in the movie, or you don't always have to win at things.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  But it's good, redemption to me would be, you know, an emotional resolution that is a plus. So you don't have to get the girl, you just have to do your best. You don't have to get the girl, you just have to have dignity. You just, in other words, I, I just want, either the movies or television or shows or documentaries and, you know, Pavarotti, which we just finished, wasn't a perfect person, but there's redemption in Pavarotti. So I want to show that. I want, I want people to, I want to send out good vibes into the world.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  However it goes, even if it's just me saying hey to somebody, hey, like, or, I don't want to, there's so many examples. I, I just want to have good vibes, good vibes out there. I, I realized, this is a big digression, but I, I kind of learned the message of this when, as, first of all, as a kid, I'd have my parents periodically take me to a movie. And it was always like a huge drag to get in the car. It was very inconvenient. Then my dad would be mad because he couldn't find a parking spot. And then all of a sudden there's bad vibes and then we have to wait in line and then we get our ticket. And then we have to put our sweaters down or someone has to save the seats while someone gets the food, da, da, da.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  Anyway, before the movie even starts, the whole theater, the auditorium is usually kind of tense and bad vibes. So that was my memory of the movie-going experience. Of course, I loved all those James Bond movies and stuff. Nonetheless, that's what I remember. And then I remember the same thing happened when you got out, trying to get your car to the parking spot, all that stuff. I see the movie E.T. In the Cinerama Dome, this famous theater in Hollywood. Actually, we're quite close to it.

• 45:32Jay Shetty?

  I've been there, yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:33Jay Shetty?

  I just saw.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  And it was very new at the time. And all the same things were happening, hard to park, da, da, da, da, da. And I'm thinking, oh, my God, the movie's over. I sort of thought, of course, people are gonna step on my feet. I'm just a little guy, da, da, da. It was so strange. Everybody, the whole vibe was really good. Nobody pushed, no rush to the car. The energetics of the entire auditorium had changed, had transformed to something else. And I thought, wow, that's amazing. If I can be, some way, have that be my goal, to try to make movies or television shows that make you feel better, you know?

• 46:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Because that gives you confidence. And it, and confidence gives you the ability to hatch new ideas. And, you know, so, so that's kind of how redemption factors into it. And the movie, like Eight Mile, that I produced about a rapper, you know?

• 46:31Jay Shetty?

  I've watched that movie way too many times. Eminem's behind that, you can't see it right now.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  I see, I do, I see, I see.

• 46:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, it's like, I'm a huge Eminem fan, so.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  So, yeah, and so, that movie's not like a man be, you know, it's not a, it's not, it's, you know, it's a serious movie, you know, it's intense. There's, you know, words and this and that, and it's, there's acts of violence and stuff. But ultimately, it's an aspirational film. It's a movie about a kid that had to become self-actualized to emotionally survive. Wasn't even about him going off to be the biggest hip-hop star in the world. In fact, that isn't what happens in the story of the movie. He just was able to say, yeah, I am white trash, liberate himself from all his emotional injuries, so that he could actually look at people and know himself and dust off the mirror, as you said. So, you know, it's, there's all these different sizes, shapes, and forms in which you can

• 47:25Speaker 02

  do that.

• 47:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, and I loved that, and I definitely got that message from that movie. I mean, I must have watched that movie growing up, I don't know, like. A million times and it's like every time I watched it personally, it just gave me more permission to be myself. Like that's what I was getting from it.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  See, that's cool. Yeah.

• 47:40Jay Shetty?

  It's like permission to be yourself because that's what you see his character, B Rabbit, go through of just getting permission to then finally stage on, say be on stage and not be better or be worse.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:52Jay Shetty?

  But just be yourself.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:54Jay Shetty?

  And I think that that's

• 47:55Speaker 02

  That's brilliant.

• 47:55Jay Shetty?

  To me where human connection starts is when you give yourself permission to be yourself and you give someone else the permission to be themselves. Without judgment, ambition, all the other stuff you mentioned of just without like crowding it into like you having to be a certain way and them having to be a certain way.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, that's so well said because that is sort of like thinking of your best date or your best meeting with somebody, even just a business meeting, your best meeting is when that happens, right? When those guards go down and both people feel permission to be themselves.

• 48:27Jay Shetty?

  But I, I thought you did that. When I first met you, obviously I'd, uh, I mean, some of your, the movies you've made are some of my favorite movies. Rush two is one of my favorite movies. I love that movie and it's for me, those have been, and so when I got the opportunity to meet you and my team had mentioned to me that we could meet, I, you know, for me, it was like, I was like, wow, I'm meeting someone that I've like admired for a long time, really look up to you. I was nervous because I was meeting someone that, you know, that, that's important to me in some context. And, and it's just, you were so good at helping me be myself because the first thing I think you said to me when I came to your home was just like, oh gee, I've been listening to you all week. And like, you were like, oh, I've been listening to your YouTube videos and I heard you say this. And I was just like, oh, wow. Like I just feel at ease because

• 49:07Jay Shetty?

  someone's given me context that they've, they're aware of what I'm doing and, and they're meeting me and I just felt, wow, someone who's so busy, someone who has so many huge things going on, had the time to do that.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:21Jay Shetty?

  And I'm like, if you've got the time to do that, to make someone like me feel at ease, then for me, we've all got time to do that.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:27Jay Shetty?

  For, for everyone that we meet, you know, and so often I think. We have meetings where we've done no preparation for the person.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:34Jay Shetty?

  Someone walks into a room and you're like, alright, so tell me why you're here, right? And it's like.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  It's horrible.

• 49:38Jay Shetty?

  You're like always pitching yourself and it's like, I think people don't want to pitch themselves. You're not your best when you're pitching yourself.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  No, you're not.

• 49:45Jay Shetty?

  And, and I think there's a pressure to pitch yourself and I love being in scenarios where I'm not pitching myself because that's when I can truly give myself permission. I feel you really did that for me when we met. And I thought that was a beautiful thing to point out because I feel the fact that you did that for me, I'm, I'm hoping people listening and watching, we can all do that for everyone in our lives.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah.

• 50:05Jay Shetty?

  Just giving people that.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  What a memory you have because I do remember before the day we met, a lot of people said, oh my God, you're meeting Jay Shetty and then on and on. And it was like all diverse groups of people are going, oh, you're meeting Jay, oh, you're meeting Jay. And I thought, wow, I've really missed out by not meeting Jay clearly. So then, um, Jamie said, okay, you know, whatever day it was, so I crashed course in like the last three, the three days prior to this meeting, I watched and listened to so many of your pieces. And I thought, wow, I get it. You know, like I actually.

• 50:38Jay Shetty?

  Very kind.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Was able to, well, it was very easy to connect into, into you. So, um, yeah.

• 50:45Jay Shetty?

  No, thank you. But no, I, I really felt that. And I think that that's such a powerful thing to do that for someone is to help them. I think sometimes we have to let our gods down, but we have to help other people let their god down too.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:55Jay Shetty?

  And I think that is an environment and a space that we create, which I think you create. And I think that's why so many of the most successful people in the world that are mentioned in this book are able to do that with you as well.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks.

• 51:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think it's special.

• 51:07Speaker 02

  Well, the thing I did do, another thing, I have so many stories.

• 51:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, go for it.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  But when I started my career and I, and I, all of a sudden I, I had, uh, you know, some power and money and all that. You know, I was very aware of powerful men, for the most part, having that elevated desk when you walked in to see them. I mean, all those Hollywood cliches are really true. You know, you'd go in to see like in the day, you know, there was Sam Goldwyn or, you know, Louis B Mayer. I, it was very long before me or Daryl Zanuck and they had known to have elevated desks, you know, like. So when you walked in, you felt smaller.

• 51:45Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Um, and you sat across the desk and. And even in my time in the 1990s, it was still carried out that way. Guys that were really powerful, they all had black vinyl furniture, like really lethally tough black stuff. And, and I remember thinking, I'm gonna do just the opposite. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna even have a desk. Or I had one way off in the distance and everything was always like sitting around a very democratic kind of a vibe where it's like a coffee table, a big L-shaped couch, and you just sit and chill because you get the best out of artists when they're not scared.

• 52:23Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  So I thought, that's the, that's the way I'm gonna get my competitive edge.

• 52:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Not by intimidating somebody and making them certain that they know that I'm powerful. I'm gonna do just the opposite.

• 52:34Jay Shetty?

  Love that. That's awesome. That's so beautiful. And you did that, our first meeting was at your home.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:39Jay Shetty?

  I was like, well, okay, I'll pull it up. You know, and I just think that you, you really lived that. And I think that's amazing because I always feel that the people that change culture are the people that change culture. Like you have to change the culture to be someone who makes a difference. And I think today, so many people are scared because they're following the rules. Like they see their agent treat the younger agent badly. So they think, when I become the senior agent, that's what I'm gonna have to do.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:04Jay Shetty?

  And I think we just perpetuate that culture. We don't break cycles and we don't break generational curses.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 53:10Jay Shetty?

  Like we just let them perpetuate. And it's amazing to see you just like go, no, I'm, I'm gonna change that. What gave you the courage to, like, what gave you the boldness to, to do that?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Um, well, look, I, like everybody else, wanna feel special. I wanna earn my right, I wanna earn, you know, I wanna earn feeling special.

• 53:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  And I wanna, and I wanna be acknowledged for it.

• 53:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 53:34Speaker 02

  So, you know, there was a time where like the five main big producers.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  All four of them all looked sort of similar. You know, they had, they did action films. They're very aggro. They yelled at assistants and stuff. And, you know, they were very aggressive. Threw plates of food on them. There's a lot of famous stories. Now, I don't even want to say that I'm better than that. I was just different than that. I'm not constructed. I don't have a lot of sort of confrontational stuff going on in me in that way. So I thought, how am I gonna have a nick? Do I need a nickname? Or how do I do this? And I, and I quite honestly, a lot of them had, you know, beards. I could, I could not grow a beard, quite honestly. So I thought, how am I gonna do it?

• 54:23Speaker 02

  So I did want to, you know, have something. And so that's when I sort of popped my hair up. Cause my daughter Sage thought, oh, that looked great. We're in the swimming pool. And I thought, well, okay, that could be different. Yeah. And so, but I, I didn't really, you know, um, I, I just kind of felt like, and my career started with making a mermaid film. Yes, yes. I mean, if my, if my career started by with an action film, or it started with something that was less risky, you know, less against the system or, you know, like, that seemed less crazy. Like, everyone thought a mermaid movie is, if you're gonna pick what could be a dumb idea, that would be the dumb idea. Yes.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  So I had a lot of people, hundreds of people sort of say that was a very bad idea. And so the fact that it worked, validated this sort of movement for myself to just continue to try my, finding my authentic self, trust the theme that lives inside of that authentic self, and have that be transported in to movies or television that I do. And so, most of my movies and television shows, the ones I work on, that certainly that work have a theme. And usually the theme is rooting for love. Rooting for friendship, brotherhood is always a thing to me, you know? And self-respect and identity is critical.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  You know, it's the avoidance of shame. Yeah. So many movies are kind of access around.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Of respect, you know, having men, men wanna feel respected. We all wanna feel respected. Women wanna feel respected.

• 56:08Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  And so you have to allow people to have that identity. And best, the good things will come from it.

• 56:15Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. That's beautiful, Brian. We end every interview with a final five.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 56:19Jay Shetty?

  This is a rapid fire, quick fire round. So, answers have to be one word to one sentence maximum. That's a cap. And I will probably, I will probably make you expand on stuff, but, but we'll try and stick to that.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  I'll try it.

• 56:32Jay Shetty?

  This is your final five, Brian.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  I'll try, yes.

• 56:34Jay Shetty?

  The first question is, the movie you've re-watched the most?

• 56:38Speaker 02

  Godfather.

• 56:39Jay Shetty?

  Okay, nice. Second question, what is one movie you wish you created?

• 56:44Speaker 02

  Um, oh my, oh God, what is that? With Michael J. Fox, I loved that movie.

• 56:52Speaker 02

  You know what it is?

• 56:54Speaker 02

  Back to the Future, sorry. Back to the Future, cuz I had made many, many, oh, sorry, I'm gonna stop. Back to the Future. I wish I would.

• 57:00Jay Shetty?

  No, carry on.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  Well, because I had produced a lot of hit comedies, but when Back to the Future was made and I saw it, I thought, wow, that blows my mind. That takes comedy to a whole other level. I just thought the intricacy, the genius to create something, you know, retrofit back that story was brilliant. I thought it was really brilliant. I wish I could have made that movie.

• 57:20Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. Question number three, if you could have a conversation, a curious conversation with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be? Someone you haven't spoken to yet?

• 57:29Speaker 02

  I would really love, love to meet, really have a conversation with the Pope.

• 57:36Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  With the Pope.

• 57:38Jay Shetty?

  Okay, side question, not one of the final five. What would you ask him? What would be one question that you'd ask him?

• 57:43Speaker 02

  How does he have the strength and ability to change what is almost an inflexible system?

• 57:49Jay Shetty?

  Nice. Yeah, amazing. Okay, great. I'm sure we can dive into that on another day, too. Uh, question number four, what's one of your favorite scenes from The House of Cards? Cuz I know you like the show.

• 57:58Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I do love House of Cards. I don't have a favorite scene, but I, I do like, I did like when Kevin Spacey would become so evil, so badass that it's shocking. You know, I guess I like things that are unpredictable and he, he and that became unpredictable. So.

• 58:18Jay Shetty?

  Amazing.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  And I liked it. It was a big surprise to me because I offered Robin Wright to be in A Beautiful Mind. I think she's an amazing actress. Um, but she declined and I shouldn't say that. But anyway, she did. And I've always been a big fan because she's brave and she's, she's, she's super badass in that show.

• 58:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love it. And the final and fifth question of the final five is if you could give one message to everyone listening, what would that be? If you had to give a final message to everyone listening?

• 58:48Speaker 02

  It's a one step to look at somebody in the eyes. Please do it.

• 58:54Jay Shetty?

  Amazing. I love it. How beautiful. What a beautiful message to give to people. Just forget FaceTime, forget messaging, get in front of people, get face to face, have more curious conversations, have conversations without ambition. That line is going to stick with me the rest of my life.

• 59:10Speaker 02

  Thank you. I'm so happy.

• 59:11Jay Shetty?

  That is such a beautiful way of putting it. Thank you so much, Brian.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 59:14Jay Shetty?

  For everyone who's been listening and watching, thank you so much for tuning in today. I highly recommend that you go and get the book, Face to Face, The Art of Human Connection. It's in bookstores right now. You can order it online too. And we'll put the link into the comments section so you can order it straight from our feed. Make sure you go get the book. If you want to hear about stories and what I love about this book is there are lots of people in our lives that we may never get to have curious conversations with ourselves. But it's people like Brian who bring those curious conversations into our lives. So there are a host of people in this book that you'd love to speak with and you may never get to speak with face to face, but Brian has and he's asked them incredible questions and you get to read about all of them in the book. So in the same way as I always say, I feel mentored by Steve Jobs, even though I never met him

• 59:58Jay Shetty?

  because I've studied everything he's ever said, you will find the same mentorship and insight in this book. So I highly recommend that you go and get Face to Face by Brian Grazer. Brian, it's been an honor and my pleasure to have you here today in my home and also to interview you. And I'm excited for our relationship to continue. I'm excited for more conversations.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Me too. I'm so grateful. I loved, you're brilliant. I loved how this turned out.

• 1:00:22Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's brilliant. Thank you.

• 1:00:24Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. Thank you so much. Perfect. Thank you.

• 1:00:32Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're gonna share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to On Purpose. Let me know, post it. Tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you.

• 1:01:18Speaker 03

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Ally here with cash when you need it. Like after that fantastic meal. And it's time to tip your server. And your wallet's empty. Don't be in... Ally's got you covered with 75,000 fee-free ATMs nationwide. Ally Bank Member FDIC.

• 1:02:03Speaker 05

  Mr. President, my company told me of the explosion on our rig.

• 1:02:06Speaker 06

  On October 2nd.

• 1:02:07Speaker 05

  Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:02:12Speaker 06

  Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and the Revenant.

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You starve, you freeze to death, that's what...

• 1:02:23Speaker 06

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:02:27Speaker 05

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:02:28Speaker 06

  Digger, see the trailer online. Only here is October 2nd. Rated R, under 17, not a minute without parent.