Ask Jay: How Do You Move Forward When You're Grieving?

Jay takes four listener calls exploring the different ways we experience grief, from caring for a child with chronic illness and losing a close friendship to mourning a parent who's still alive and fearing the loss of someone you love. He shares practical ways to navigate uncertainty, make peace with relationships that have changed, let go of guilt, and stay present with the people you love instead of living in fear of losing them. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Instagram Teen Accounts: Built-in protections for teens. Learn More. At https://chase.com/sapphirereserve TRIGGER WARNING: Some of the content in this episode contains sensitive conversations covering suicide. Viewer discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, please call or text 988 (US & Canada), or call 116 123 (UK). JAY'S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here: https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast What I Discuss: 00:00 Introduction 01:04 Finding Purpose Amidst Uncertainty 07:02 Navigating Inconsistent Friendships 09:30 The Radius Of Respect 15:40 How Do You Grieve Someone Who Is Still Alive? 16:47 Understanding Ambiguous Loss 21:48 Coping With Anticipatory Loss 23:37 Learning to Appreciate What You Have Before It's Gone Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. This podcast is only as great as it is because of all the different people working on it and the different skills they bring. When you need to find the right people for your team, that's a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. It helps make the hiring process less daunting while boosting your job post. So it reaches the quality talent you're looking for faster and you only pay for results. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast.

• 0:39Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed here. Terms and conditions apply. Need the right hire fast? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves, building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness. But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents.

• 1:23Jay Shetty?

  Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 1:27Jay Shetty?

  Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon.

• 1:54Jay Shetty?

  This series is designed for the moments that require more than just a message on a screen. Every episode, you send in your voice notes detailing the situations that feel like too much to type, and I listen to each one so we can find a way forward together. Today, we're opening up a conversation about grief. We often look for a finish line, hoping that the pain will finally end or that we will reach a point where we're no longer sad. But grief is not a destination. It's a weight that we carry often while trying to experience joy, guilt and love all at the same time. Today, we're holding space for that weight. Thank you for trusting me with your stories. Let's dive in.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Hi Jay. Four years ago, everything changed when my son was diagnosed with Akkadi Gutiérrez syndrome, a rare life-shortening genetic condition. In one moment, the future I had imagined disappeared. Since then, I've learned that grief and joy can exist at the same time. My son has taught me a depth of love I never knew was possible. But living with a progressive condition means that just when I feel like I've found solid ground again, life changes. Recently, he developed epilepsy and suddenly all the fears I thought I had worked through came rushing back. I'm learning to accept that I'll have to keep becoming. I want to build meaningful work, maybe even become self-employed, supporting families like ours.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  But our life is so unpredictable, sometimes it feels impossible to dream about the future when life can change overnight. So my question to you is, how do you build a meaningful life and a sense of purpose when the ground beneath your feet keeps changing? Thank you so much.

• 3:40Jay Shetty?

  First of all, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge how brave, how resilient, how courageous and how incredible you are. I mean, hearing from you has actually made me realize how humbled I feel just hearing about how you've navigated one of the most difficult times in your life, how you're approaching these challenges. So I hope you take a moment to give yourself some grace, give yourself some compassion, show yourself some love because it's unbelievable, your mindset. And the fact that even in this time, you're thinking about how you can do more meaningful work in the world, how you can add value, how you can have an impact, how you can do things in your community. I mean, it's, it's truly, truly beautiful.

• 4:25Jay Shetty?

  Uncertainty is the only certainty in life. And you're experiencing that every single day. As you said, you're either running around between hospitals, you think everything's safe and then something surprises you again. But what if the meaningful work wasn't what you did after this moment? But what if the meaningful work is this moment? What if your purpose is exactly what you're doing right now? I think sometimes we like to believe that our purpose is out there, that we'll find it afterwards, that we'll come across it in some way. But in reality, this is what life is asking of you right now. So I want you to take that pressure off.

• 5:06Jay Shetty?

  And in reality, you're passing with flying colors, but in your mind, you're judging yourself. You're questioning whether it's meaningful. You're questioning whether you're on the right path. And so I want to remind you, you are on the right path. What I'd also like to add to you is, because there's so much uncertainty in your life, what you want to do is find one habit that is certain for you. This one habit that you do every day that becomes a foundation for you. It could be having your cup of coffee every single day, whether you're in the hospital or at home or wherever you are. It could be making sure that you watch one episode of your favorite show because that's an escape that you really need throughout the day. It could be jumping on the phone with a friend or a family member, not to help them,

• 5:50Jay Shetty?

  but to be held yourself. It's doing something for yourself every day that requires a little bit of time, not too much effort, and so that you feel you have a certainty and a pattern and a rhythm in all of the uncertainty around you. If there can be one habit every day that you can control, that you can focus on, it will give you a sense of certainty and stability and a core foundation in an otherwise rocky day. I don't want you to wait to feel like you have to build meaningful work. I don't want you to think you have to wait till the future to do something meaningful. You're already doing something meaningful and this is the path. And I promise you, all the experiences, all the wisdom, all the insight you gain from

• 6:33Jay Shetty?

  this moment, it will give you everything you need to build a future purpose. It will give you every skill, every tool, every mindset you need in order to be ready for that when you finally get to it. But you don't need to carry that pressure right now. You're already carrying so much. You're living in reality, which allows for two truths to exist. You're grieving the future that you'd imagined for your son while loving the actual child in front of you. And both are true at the same time. Neither cancels each other out and neither is more or less important. A meaningful life gets built inside the uncertainty, in the present that you can touch, not after it ends.

• 7:18Jay Shetty?

  And I want to leave you with this. What kind of life could you build inside the uncertainty instead of waiting for it to end first? Instagram teen accounts come with automatic protections that limit who can contact teens, the content they can see and the time they spend on the app. Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Hi Jay. I have a friend, or I guess we're not really friends anymore, but she was my best friend from college, from our late teen years into our early 30s. And there was probably a time where I would have said that this friend got me more than anyone else. She's dealt with a lot of issues in her life with family and mental health and hasn't always been able to show up for me in the way that I need, which has led to a cycle of not knowing whether to walk away from my own self-protection or stay and be there for her despite getting hurt when I do. Last year, I kept reaching out, asking why she wasn't in my life anymore and she just stopped responding. We went three months without speaking and I genuinely thought I'd done something wrong. She was always just bad with her phone, you know, responding in batches, but this was different.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  She reached out finally and said how regretful she was, that she missed me and didn't know why she disappears on me, that I'm a friend she wants in her life. She showed me a notes app of things she wrote down she wished she could tell me. And when I asked her why she hadn't just told me, she didn't really have a good answer. In the short period we were reconnected, she got pregnant and told me, which I was obviously so excited about. I was close with her husband, I spoke at their wedding and I could see our families being friends for life. But about a month later, after answering a routine question she had about my job, she stopped responding to me again. It's been five months and I'm starting to look back on our entire friendship differently. I feel like I've exhausted myself trying to have a relationship with her and need to accept that whether it's because she can't or doesn't want to, she's not going to reciprocate. And I've learned that it hurts me too much to keep trying.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  So I have two questions. One, she's due to have a baby really soon and I have no idea how I'll feel when she gives birth, but does it make me a bad or petty person if I don't reach out to her to congratulate her? And my second question is, I think I have hope deep down that this is a phase, but how do I let go of that and learn to grieve our friendship with gratitude rather than being completely confused and sad and mad about it?

• 9:41Jay Shetty?

  Hey, thank you so much for your question. What I'm hearing is, is that you've spent a lot of time investing in preserving this friendship, trying to understand what's going on and what's happening. And what's changed now isn't that you don't have feelings for your friend, but in your awakening and realisation that maybe this relationship doesn't meet you where you are. You don't want inconsistent connection. You don't want someone who makes you feel like you don't know where you stand. You don't want the irregularity of messaging and being in contact. All of that seems to be causing you to feel unnerved, and that's natural. It also feels like this person has a pattern.

• 10:25Jay Shetty?

  And one of my favourite quotes from Maya Angelou is that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. I find that people can change, people can grow. But when you see patterns like this repeated over months and years, what you're getting is the person saying, "This is who I am." They're not saying it in those words, but they're showing you, "This is who they are. This is what a relationship with me looks like, and this is how it's gonna go." And then we get a choice to decide how close or far we wanna stand to that person. Now, I think the challenge we have is we think that the good thing, the right thing to do, is stay close to people no matter how they treat us. If we love someone, we should stay close to them because that's a sign of love.

• 11:10Jay Shetty?

  I wanna introduce you to an idea that I wrote about in The Eight Rules of Love, my book, called Radius of Respect. I believe that when I love someone, I wanna stand as close to them or as far away based on me still being able to respect them. There are people I love in my life that if I spend too much time with them, or if I'm too involved, or too engaged, or reaching out too much, I actually start to feel bitter. I could even start to feel resentment. And so I realise I've gotta step a little further away if I wanna continue to love and respect them. Which may mean, instead of talking to someone once a week, I only check in once a quarter. Means I only check in once a year. The point is, if I wanna love someone, if I wanna continue to respect someone,

• 11:53Jay Shetty?

  I'm not being disrespectful by disconnecting. Sometimes, the only way to respect and love someone is through distance. Because that's the only way we can keep that beautiful vision we had of the relationship, the wonderful memories that you've shared, the amazing experiences that you have had, and not lose them to bitterness, pain, stress and resentment that naturally comes from engaging too often. I think a lot of friends go through these transitions in their life, especially long-term friendships. Where you find out and realise you have to almost set a boundary with someone, or you have to re-establish your new standards of connection. Right, maybe you had a friend that you spoke to every single day, and now you realise that's not the case. And that's hard, because you look petty.

• 12:38Jay Shetty?

  You look like the bad guy. You look like the bad person who's the one pulling away, and you don't wanna look that way. But in reality, the closer you get to that person, the more you don't like them. The more you engage with them, the more you actually feel bad feelings towards them. So, does it make you petty or a bad person to not wanna reach out? No, because you've been available, you've been around, you do care, and you're allowed to care from a distance. And when it comes to grieving your relationship with gratitude, it comes from standing far enough or close enough from where you can still experience gratitude. You don't wanna get so close that you only see their flaws, and you don't wanna stand so far that you only see what went right.

• 13:23Jay Shetty?

  You wanna stand just close enough that you can say, "I'm glad I was there for them. I'm still here for them." But actually, if I get too close, that's not good for either of us. Sometimes we can try to be so close to someone that we push ourselves away from them or push them away. And sometimes we can move just far enough from where we can learn to respect each other again. Disconnecting and distance can often help us reconnect in the long term with someone we love. Disconnect is not disrespect. I wanted to share with you one of my favourite quotes from an article by Jennifer Senior called, "It's Your Friends Who Break Your Heart." There's no vocabulary for the end of a friendship. No rituals to mark its demise.

• 14:08Jay Shetty?

  When a romantic relationship ends, you have a story to tell. When a friendship ends, it usually just vanishes into a silent, bewildering vault. The injury of a friend walking away isn't just that you lose them. It's that they leave you, holding all the history alone, wondering if any of it meant to them what it meant to you. I hope that helps you. Sometimes I find that reading about your feelings, understanding and reframing them for yourself can be a beautiful way of processing how you feel. And I'll end on this. What if you don't have to wish her well just yet?

• 14:50Jay Shetty?

  What if you take this time to actually see what you need? What's so interesting is that we don't wanna be the bad guy to someone else, but we become the bad guy to ourselves. We are giving space and context and compassion to someone else. And I feel this time could be... This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside of our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct. Enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges,

• 15:35Jay Shetty?

  three times the points on dining and reserve-exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by Quince. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything? The perfect pair of pants or the tee you somehow always reach for first? Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy, and that's what Quince does best. One of the things I really like about Quince is that the pieces are just easy. I've been wearing their organic cotton crew neck sweater, the mesh stitch sweater polo, and their European linen utility shirt.

• 16:18Jay Shetty?

  And they're all things I can just throw on without having to think too much about putting an outfit together. The crew neck is a great everyday staple. The sweater polo feels a little more elevated. And I love the linen shirt when I want something lightweight and easy to layer. What's impressed me across all of them is the quality. You notice it in the fabric, the fit, and even the little details. They feel elevated, but they're still pieces you can actually wear every day. I think the best things in your wardrobe are the things you end up reaching for without even realising how often you're wearing them. And that's definitely been my experience with Quince. Find your next fall favourites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.

• 17:03Jay Shetty?

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• 17:47Jay Shetty?

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• 18:25Speaker 03

  Well, I'm sitting here on the floor of the bathroom and think about my mother and also my brother. They both are humans that I have to grieve. One is alive and the other one is dead. More than a decade ago, my brother, unalive to himself, he gave up the fight with life and it was because of our mother. Because the way she raised us, and after that, we all crashed. She was a bad mom. She didn't do better. It's like more than six months now and I didn't have any contact with her. She wants to, I know, but I don't want to.

• 19:10Speaker 03

  I keep thinking that I feel better without her. My whole body, my life changed rapidly. My question is, how do I grieve a person that is still alive?

• 19:28Jay Shetty?

  First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss. You've experienced two profound losses. You've got the death of your brother and the loss of the mother you needed but didn't have. And I can tell that for you, those stories have also intertwined and I can imagine how hard that is. I want to start off by saying that I'm wondering whether part of your grief isn't about losing your mother now, but about finally accepting that she may never become the mother you've been waiting for. And that's like a really harsh awakening. It's a really harsh reality to finally come to the place where you recognize this person isn't going to change. They never were.

• 20:11Jay Shetty?

  There's almost like a false hope that we have, especially with our primary carers. When it comes to our parents, you, in the beginning at least, see them as superhuman. You see them as someone who could never do anything wrong. You see them as people that carry your hopes, your dreams, that they should carry your best interests, care about you, put you first. And then as time goes on, you start to see the truth, that they're fallible, that they're human too, that they have needs and emotions and weaknesses. When you start to see that and you start to recognize that they're limited and that they've let you down and that they've caused you pain, it can be really harsh when you

• 20:56Jay Shetty?

  finally accept that. From listening to you, I believe you're not really grieving her, you're grieving the version of her that you wanted to be real. You're grieving the version of her that you had hoped would be there for you. You're grieving the version of her that you'd imagined could be possible one day. And grieving doesn't mean that you stop having emotions for this person. It's just that you finally are accepting reality for what it is and you don't need it to be different. So the way you grieve someone who's still alive is you recognize that what you received from them was real and what you hoped from them wasn't true.

• 21:39Jay Shetty?

  The way you grieve is to accept what you lived and experienced in reality, not what you wished for in imagination. That you recognize that what you got was what they could give and you didn't live in the dream of their potential. And in order to do that, it's a mixed, messy process. There'll be feelings of regret, of pain, of guilt, of love, of care, of compassion. And I'd encourage you to feel all of it, allow for all of it to coexist. I think our minds sometimes like to put things in neat boxes and have to choose and take sides.

• 22:22Jay Shetty?

  And reality, our emotions are far more variegated and multifaceted and it's so important that we allow all of them to coexist and co-breathe. On my podcast, I've had several conversations with Dr. Ramani and the most recent one was all about going no contact. And there's a difference between going no contact because of self-protection versus punishment. Punishment is when we want the other person to feel bad. Self-protection is when we want to feel safe. I think right now, it feels like your body is feeling better because you feel safe and that's an important thing to protect. There's an incredible book called Ambiguous Loss, which is all about learning to live with unresolved grief.

• 23:06Jay Shetty?

  And the author, Pauline Boss, shares this that I wanted to share with you. "Ambiguous loss is the most stressful kind of loss because it remains unclear. There's no closure, no official verification that someone is gone. They are present in mind but absent in reality. To heal from ambiguous loss, you must learn to live with two opposing thoughts at once. They are gone and they are still here. I love them and I must let go of them." The question I'll leave you with is this: how much are you willing to accept the mom that she was in reality versus the one she was in imagination?

• 23:50Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. One of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves is the chance to step outside our routine. Travel is a way of slowing us down and shifting our perspective. And with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card, every journey becomes even more rewarding. Earn four times the points on flights and hotels booked direct, enjoy access to award-winning airport lounges, three times the points on dining, and reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/sapphirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, N A Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply.

• 24:32Speaker 04

  During COVID, my dad was admitted to the hospital. It was a few weeks. He ended up in an induced coma. We were being told he might not live. And some backstory, my dad is one of my absolute best friends, a core person, and I have never had anyone die in my life yet. I still have all my grandparents. I have my immediate family, my aunts and uncles, cousins. Like, this would be the first death and a hard death. So I kind of saw a glimpse into and felt a glimpse of what mourning a core person would be like. I am happy to report, he woke up and everything's okay.

• 25:13Speaker 04

  We're a few years removed now from this and our family is doing better than ever. I guess my question would be, how do you see what that was going to look like, feel what that was going to look like, and still be able to fully enjoy life without being terrified? Because now, I love my people so deeply, yet the bubble of immortality popped because we're not. And now, that's just scary. How do you enjoy the good when you know how the bad's going to feel?

• 25:47Jay Shetty?

  Thank you so much for your question. I want to start by just acknowledging what happened during COVID. And even though your dad survived, which I'm really happy to hear, it sounds like you experienced a kind of anticipatory grief, right? For weeks, you were living with the possibility that your best friend might die. And that's a real human experience and it makes sense that it changed how you see the world. So first of all, I want you to think about everything I say through that lens. You went through a life experience that has altered how you see the world. You will no longer see the world the same and that's a good thing. It's okay. You've had a life evolution, a transition, that has made you look at the world differently.

• 26:32Jay Shetty?

  And I'm wondering if what changed wasn't your capacity for joy, it was your awareness of how precious the people you love really are. So you're looking at it and thinking, gosh, I don't know how to have joy anymore. But it's not your lack of ability to create joy, it's actually looking at how ephemeral and how transient, but also how precious these relationships truly are. And so I think we have to almost reframe what you're seeing. Yes, you're seeing you have less time with the people you love, but you're realizing how much more precious they are. And I want you to lean into that side to recognize this person is more precious, this

• 27:17Jay Shetty?

  person is more amazing, this moment is more special than any other. When we've reframed that viewpoint from which we're looking at the same situation, it changes where the emphasis is. We still recognize things have an end, but we recognize that they're more important and they matter more. The paradox is that the awareness of loss doesn't have to take away joy. For many people, over time, it becomes the very reason they actually savor ordinary moments more fully. The love that will one day make grief possible is also what makes today's conversations, laughter, and hugs meaningful.

• 28:01Jay Shetty?

  Here's what I want you to remember: knowing that something will end is what gives it value. If it was going to last forever, it would lose its value. If you thought you had forever with someone, you would take every moment for granted. When you know you only have a few moments with someone, you take them all deeply. And so, yes, it's natural to have a morbid, negative view to the amount of time you have left with someone. It's natural for us to fear more than it is for us to find joy. It's how we're wired. But I think that's the beautiful thing, to actually be so present in the moment that

• 28:44Jay Shetty?

  you forget the past and the future, to be so immersed in that person's eyes. Their loving glance, the holding of their hands, their embrace, that you forget the past and the future. Because all that really exists is this moment right now. I want to share with you a profound teaching by Thai forest master Ajahn Sha called "The Broken Cup." He taught that by accepting an object will inevitably break, you can appreciate its beauty fully in the present moment without suffering when it is eventually lost. It's called "The Glass Is Already Broken." He says, "You see this glass? For me, this glass is already broken.

• 29:27Jay Shetty?

  I enjoy it, I drink out of it, it holds my water admirably, sometimes even reflecting the sun in beautiful patterns. If I should tap it, it has a lovely ring to it. But when I put this glass on the shelf and the wind knocks it over, or my elbow brushes it off the table and it falls to the ground and shatters, I say, 'Of course!' When I understand that the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious." See, we can't control the end. We can't control how it happens, when it happens, why it happens. But knowing it's gonna happen, we can control what we do now. And it is a choice we have to make every moment, every day, every month, every year.

• 30:09Jay Shetty?

  We can either choose to look at it and think it's already broken, so how can I appreciate it? How can I engage with it? Or we can look at it and say, "It's already broken, and therefore let me make the most of it. Let me be truly present." I'll leave you with this. The cost of loving people is grief, and it's worth paying, but not in advance. You're going to experience the pain of losing someone anyway. Just don't pay that price upfront. Thank you for trusting me with your stories. You're carrying a lot, and I hope today reminded you that you don't have to carry it all alone. Keep those voice memos coming.

• 30:46Speaker 05

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• 31:10Speaker 06

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• 31:34Speaker 07

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• 32:04Jay Shetty?

  I'll be here.