Matt Damon & Gary White ON: Seeing Problems and Taking Action & How to Help Others in Crisis

Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on Calm Jay Shetty sits down with Water. Org co-founders Matt Damon and Gary White to talk about the water crisis around the world. We see stories of extreme poverty in places that are less developed and have little to no access to basic services such as electricity and water. These stories of struggles are out there but we don’t get to hear the rawness of the situation and reality many people live in. The water crisis is real and it’s one of the major hindrances for children to have proper education and a chance at a better future. While everyone knows Matt Damon as an actor and producer and screenwriter, in 2006, he founded H20 Africa Foundation to raise awareness about water initiatives on the continent. Matt's active participation in the work of Water. Org and Walter Equity has positioned him as one of the world's experts on water and sanitation issues. Now in 1991, Gary White launched Water Partners, now the international NGO known as Water. Org. Today, he leads two organizations in creating and executing market-driven solutions to the global water crisis driving innovations in the way water and sanitation projects are delivered and financed. Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/ What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:14 The water crisis is a daily struggle 09:35 Taking the problem one step at a time and find a solution 16:49 How the lack of water impacts women and girls more 21:53 What else should a thirteen year old girl think about? 24:41 The impact of seeing places in extreme poverty 27:50 Tapping into existing microfinance institutions (MFIs) across the globe 35:10 Finding a partner in the water credit space 40:44 Spread awareness on these individual stories Episode Resources Water. Org Water Equity The Worth of Water See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:41Jay Shetty?

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• 1:26Jay Shetty?

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• 2:25Speaker 01

  About 11 years ago, we were in Haiti and I was introduced to a little girl who was 13. She spent three to four hours every day collecting water. So I say to this kid, I'm like, well, hey, you know, I kind of joke and say, now you have more time for homework. And she looks at me totally seriously and she's like, I don't need more time to do homework. I'm the smartest kid in my class. And I said, all right, well, so what are you going to do with all this time that you just found? You know, your newfound four hours a day? And she looked at me and she goes, I'm going to play.

• 2:59Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, I know that our community at On Purpose, all of you are activists. Our community is dedicated to making positive change in the world. I know that all of you have got behind so many causes that we've prioritized and given a platform to on this podcast. And this is one of those episodes. So if you've been looking and waiting to do something positive in the world, to feel like you're a part of the solution, then I want you to listen to this episode. I want you to share it with all your friends and family that are of the same energy and spirit, because this one's going to make a huge difference.

• 3:43Jay Shetty?

  Today, I'm speaking to two incredible guests, Gary White and Matt Damon, who are co-founders of water.org and Water Equity. While everyone knows Matt as an actor and producer and screenwriter, in 2006, he founded H20 Africa Foundation to raise awareness about water initiatives on the continent. Matt's active participation in the work Of water.org and Water Equity has positioned him as one of the world's experts on water and sanitation issues. Now, in 1991, Gary launched Water Partners, now the international NGO known as water.org. Today, he leads two organizations in creating and executing market-driven solutions to the global water crisis,

• 4:29Jay Shetty?

  driving innovations in the way water and sanitation projects are delivered and financed. Welcome to On Purpose, Matt Damon and Gary White. Matt and Gary, thank you so much for being here. And I know today we're talking about your book, The Worth of Water, our story of chasing solutions to the world's greatest challenge. I highly recommend everyone goes and grabs a copy of the book while you're listening or watching, but we will be diving into that and discussing it. Gary and Matt, thank you for being here. It's so good to see you.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Good to see you. Thank you for sharing your incredible platform with us, too. This is really awesome. We appreciate it. For sure. Thanks, Jay.

• 5:07Jay Shetty?

  No, thank you for doing the work. You know, I spent three years living as a monk in India after business school. And a lot of the work we did was around building sustainable villages. And a big part of that was making sure that clean water reached those places. So I have a personal affinity to the work that you're doing. And so when this came across my desk, I was, to be honest, just super enthusiastic and excited to talk about it. I'd love to start off from both of you individually telling me about what is the water crisis and water issue right now? For those who are unaware or those that have kind of seen it, but kind of think, oh, yeah, like, isn't, aren't there a lot of people dealing with that? And, you know, it's kind of been talked about for a while.

• 5:52Jay Shetty?

  I'd love to hear from both of your perspectives personally as to what you believe the issue is right now.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Well, if I can go ahead and jump in, if that's all right. It's it's so complex, it's kind of hard to distill it, but I'll give it a shot. I think that the for us, we tend to think of the water crisis as something that's looming. We know that, you know, with climate change, water resources are getting more scarce. And that is a looming crisis, and it is important, we should be focused on that. But for 771 million people around the world today, the crisis is already upon them. Right? They're the ones that when they woke up this morning, they didn't necessarily know where they were going to get water for the day. They didn't know how much time they were going to have to spend walking to collect that water.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  Or sometimes they have to buy it from these these urban slum vendors who sell it for prices that are 10 to 15 times more than what they would pay if they had a water connection. So to them, the water crisis is a daily struggle to make sure that they have enough water in order to kind of live the day. And then when you're struggling day to day like that, that water crisis becomes like a family health crisis. It becomes an education crisis. It becomes, you know, lack of employment crisis because you're focused so much on getting water or paying for water that you're not in school, you're not healthy.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  And so it is basically something that's right now robbing hundreds of millions of people of their futures, because until you have water, nothing else matters.

• 7:33Jay Shetty?

  Thank you for that, Gary. I really appreciate that. And the main thing that I'm hearing there is just, we think of people just not having water to drink. And then it's almost like, well, wait a minute, let's think about the act of getting water and what that takes away time from, i.e. their economic space, their home space, their family, the cooking, the the feeding, you know, everything that it expands out to. So thank you for that. Matt, I want to extend the same question to you as well. I'd love to hear about, for you personally, what what you see is the issue.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  So, well, I think Gary just did a pretty good summary there, but to follow on to that, I would just say that the effect of that, right, leaving aside the needless disease and death, right, that occurs when you don't have access to clean water and sanitation, you know, because we're losing a million children under the age of five, you know, to every year, to completely preventable illness, right? And, and, and so that's its own tragedy, right? But, but when you look at the other effects of not having access, namely, you know, because this disproportionately affects women and girls, so many girls aren't in school because

• 8:43Speaker 01

  they, they have to, for the sake of the survival of their families, be out looking for water every day. And so, and so you can imagine what that does to the, to the outcomes of their, of their lives and to their potential. So it's not only this, this needless disease and suffering, it's, it's also robbing people of their potential in ways that are really incalculable. And that was the very first water collection I went on. This is fifteen, sixteen years ago, and I, I was in Zambia in this really rural village and, and I was, it had been arranged for me to meet this girl when she got home from school and we walked together to this well and, and, and I talked to her, it was about a mile away.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  And in the course of our conversation, I, I said, you know, I said, are you going to live here for the rest of your life? Is this where you want to live? And she got really shy and she goes, no, no, I don't want to live here. I want to go to the big city. We're in this really rural area. She goes, I want to go to Lusaka. I want to be a nurse, right? And, and I totally just connected to her because I, I remembered being fourteen and I was going to go to the big city with Ben Affleck and we were going to be actors. We were going to New York and, and, and that's like what a fourteen year old should be thinking about, right? They should be dreaming about their futures and, and the possibility that awaited them. And it wasn't until I got in the car and was driving away that I realized, had it not been for the foresight of someone to sink a bore well a mile from this kid's house, she wouldn't have been in school.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  You know, she wouldn't, she wouldn't dream of someday being a nurse and, and contributing to the economic engine of her country and, and, and helping people, you know, being a frontline healthcare worker, you know, all the things that. And living her dream, really, right? And so, and so that was kind of an epiphany for me and, and, and just the far reaching effect of lack of access. Because I really found that it underpinned everything. It undergirds every issue of extreme poverty. It touches all of them. And so the, the fact that nobody was really talking about it, um, and, and it was this vastly interesting and complex thing, massive problem, uh, that, that was, that was what first got me really interested.

• 10:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that, that's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. And I think there was a line in the book that really struck me and you said that for that girl, water was life and it was also a shot at a better life. And, and when you make that comparison of what you were thinking about at 14, what she's thinking about at 14, now I'm thinking about what I was thinking about at 14 and I would encourage our listeners and viewers right now, and Gary, I'm sure you've thought about this many times, but I'd like everyone who's listening and watching to think, what were you thinking about at 14? What was your choice that you were having to make? And you just realize how far off it is from someone who doesn't have access to water and clean water. And that just makes you stop, pause and think and go, wow, like, I may think I may not have this opportunity or I may not have enough money to move to a city.

• 11:37Jay Shetty?

  But it's like, here we're talking about not even having water and clean water to have access to, let alone all those choices. One thing that comes to mind, and I want to hear this from both of you, because, you know, this has been work that you've been doing for a number of years. This is not something that, you know, both of you have just got involved with and, you know, it's, it's, it's your life's work. It's, it's, it's something you're truly passionate about. When you first saw the pain for both of you, when you first, when I hear those numbers, 771 million people, is that right? Was that, did I get that number right, Gary? Like 771 million people, you know, don't have access to clean water. When I'm hearing Matt's, you shared the statistic just right now, we're losing a million children a year.

• 12:20Jay Shetty?

  Uh, when I'm hearing those numbers, they are so high, right? They're astronomical. I hear a lot of people, when they're exposed to that much pain, our natural inclination is to feel like we can't do anything. And our natural inclination is to feel a bit helpless, to feel sad, to feel disheartened. We feel like our empathy takes over and we go, well, what can I do? When you first saw that, what gave both of you the feeling, A, that you had to do something? But B, that what you do could make a difference? Let's start there and then I'll follow up with another question. Let's start there and Gary, you can go first again for us.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  I came at it from a kind of an almost analytical perspective after I had that emotional response to it. Right? So when I was in Guatemala as an undergraduate, you know, in university, doing a volunteer project there, just seeing this girl going and collecting this filthy water out of a drum, you know, in the slums and walking back through this sewage-filled lane. That, that to me was one person, right? And then coming back and then learning that this was the story for hundreds of millions of people. I didn't get discouraged. I just like could see that one person. And it's like, okay, if we can just kind of tackle this, you know, even one person at a time,

• 13:44Speaker 02

  that was kind of the idealistic view of it. And, and so to me, what's been important about this journey that we kind of chronicle in the, in the book is that, you know, you have to have that end goal in mind. And that can be daunting to see that, you know, our vision is that everyone in our lifetime, you know, has access to safe water. And the, the challenge then becomes to match the scale of the solution to the scale of the problem. Right? And I knew that philanthropy alone wasn't going to be that solution. Philanthropy has a role to play, but it was only by traveling and meeting women who were in these circumstances. I met a woman in, in India who had gone to a loan shark and was paying 150% interest

• 14:29Speaker 02

  to that loan shark just so she could build the toilet that she wanted. Other people who are doing this to, you know, taking out loans for water connections at exorbitant rates. And then using those insights and saying, well, what if, you know, we could turn the problem around and look Like getting these people access to these small loans that we now call water credit. That would then unleash them to get the solutions that they wanted. So I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but my, my point is that. You just have to take the problem a step at a time and find a solution that's there. Evolve it, get the insights and move on. And that is the, the journey. And I think that's one of those kind of the subplots, I guess of the book. Is that any of these seemingly intractable, big social problems. Do have solutions.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  If you're tenacious, if you innovate and, and you work hard at it, you, you believe that we can get there.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, I would just say, it's interesting because I, because I had the exact same kind of. Reaction that Gary did, which was to say. Okay, well, I'm, this is a, this is a complex issue and I don't understand it entirely. But I know that if I raise money, if I create an organization and raise money. And, and start, start doing this direct impact work, building wells, right? I've seen the power of one well. So. If it, if it, if a thousand people have access to that one well, then I've helped a thousand people. So why don't I start there? Why don't I just start moving forward? Why don't I start, as Gary said, you know, take that first step? I don't know where the road is going, but I know.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  I'm not getting there if I don't start walking. And so, so that was what, and so I did. I'm sure incredibly naive things and I, I didn't, you know, and, and Gary, you know, when we met in, in two thousand eight. Gary, you know, we talk about in the book, Gary led with all of his failures, right? Which was an incredible, attractive thing, incredibly attractive thing to me because I think that is how. You know, we can't be afraid of failure. We can't be afraid of, you know, that can't stop our momentum, right? And it's how we learn and it's how we grow. Um, and, and, and so I, I knew that I had to partner with somebody. Who had a more sophisticated understanding of, of, of this issue and, and I looked around for the.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  The best person available and, uh. And when they would not take my call, I found Gary.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  No, I, and, and, and, and that was really the, the one thing that I did in this, all of this work that was really.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  I'm really happy that I did that. It was really one of the smartest choices I've ever made in my life. And because of this water credit that Gary's talking about, which was this idea that came from his experience and his lifetime of experience of being in these communities and talking to people and understanding what life was like. He also understood that people in the poorest communities were paying for water. They were already paying for it. And in most cases, paying way more than the middle class, way more than the people staying in the fancy hotels, you know, who take it totally for granted. They weren't connected to the infrastructure and as a result, their life was built around trying to get it. And so that insight led him to this hypothesis that these loans could actually be paid back

• 17:54Speaker 01

  quite easily. And that's what, you know, 43.7 million people later, you know, these loans have paid back at over 99%. So it's really, the book is really us trying to bring the story of these women, because, you know, you know, over 90% of our borrowers are women. And this kind of incredibly heroic women, like an individual with, you know, one by one by one, you know, to the tune of millions and millions of them have paid these loans back at, at over 99%. And it's just, it's a beautiful story. And it's, and it's about philosophically how we feel about, about trying to help. It's not a kind of paternalistic, here's your solution, you're welcome.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  It's like, it's going into the communities and, and, and listening and, and then ultimately nudging a market towards people and letting them solve their own problems. And that's what we've seen happen now over 43 million times. And that's really cool.

• 19:24Jay Shetty?

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• 20:07Jay Shetty?

  That's indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. This episode is brought to you by Mazda. The best habits are the ones we hardly notice, the ones that quietly shape the way we move through life, giving us the confidence to focus on what really matters. That's Mazda's approach to safety. Every Mazda is designed with proactive safety features that help keep you more aware, more connected, and more engaged with your drive, so you can stay present behind the wheel. That commitment has earned Mazda recognition as Consumer Reports' safest new car brand. And as of July 2026, Mazda has won more 2026 IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus awards than any other car brand.

• 20:52Jay Shetty?

  Visit www.iihs.org to learn more. A lot can happen when an accident doesn't. Mazda, more of what matters to you. Visit MazdaUSA.com to learn more. Consumer Reports does not endorse products or services. Yeah, that's an incredible impact. And I love the way you're thinking about it and the idea that there isn't just a one-size-fits-all solution. It's not about throwing money at it. It's actually giving people the tools and the skills and the abilities, as you rightly said, to solve their own challenges so that they feel empowered in the process rather than dependent again on another outside source in another way. I mean, can you expand more for those who don't know how the lack of access to water impacts girls and women more than boys and men?

• 21:37Jay Shetty?

  And when you uncovered that, just tell us some of the reasons, because I don't know if everyone knows why or how that exists as a discrepancy. But also, tell us some of the stories of some of the women that you've worked with as well.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Women and girls have been the ones in families that have been charged with collecting the water for their households, almost universally around the world. So they obviously have the greatest stake in this, and the greatest stake in trying to find a solution, and the greatest stake in ensuring that that solution is sustainable. And that, to us, you know, is like an insight, that's an observation. So it's like, well, let's, where, how are we going to shape our solutions to meet their needs? And that's why, you know, more than eighty-five percent of the borrowers under our water credit program are women. And so

• 22:31Speaker 02

  they're the ones that are repaying these loans at a ninety-nine percent rate. And they are the ones that have even more incentive to make sure that if something breaks down, that it gets repaired. And I think that's one of the beauties of water credit as well, because oftentimes, water projects do break down. You know, some of the statistics are that about half of the water projects fail after five years. And if you have access to an ecosystem of finance for water and sanitation, not just a one-and-done grant, but you can access a microloan to go get the, you know, solution that you need to fix, you know, your water tap or whatever, that is an important part of the whole model.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  And giving people, you know, we talk about, you know, not necessarily seeing people living in poverty as a charity problem to be solved, as much as a market to be served. And in order to kind of make the market work, we have to kind of nudge it towards the poor, which is what we do with water.org, to help, you know, get microfinance institutions that we partner with around the world, to de-risk this for them, because it's a new thing to loan for water and toilets, and they're not quite sure how it works. So we can use our philanthropic capital to kind of help them do market research, to design these loan products, so that they can go out and make these forty-three million loans

• 23:54Speaker 02

  that have happened so far. And that is, is kind of the concept. And, you know, One way to just boil it down is with a story, right? A woman I met in the Philippines recently, her name was Lyna Riza. And she was paying sixty dollars a month to a water vendor who was selling water off the back of a truck, not even good quality water. And she took out a loan from one of our partners and her loan repayment, her payment each month is five dollars. Her water bill each month is five dollars. So right there you see fifty dollars back in her pocket. I mean, think about, you know, when you're living in poverty, fifty dollars is a lot of money. You can now work to get your kids into school.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  You know, you can now afford the medicines that you might need for your for your family. You can invest in your future and build a future. And I think that's what we're trying to to help people unlock. And that's whose stories, you know, we're fortunate to be able to tell in the book.

• 24:52Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, Gary, that what I find fascinating there, Matt, just before we come to you, that how have those, obviously those water vendors who are not selling the the clean water or the best water, they've built up a certain level of authority and control in these markets and like, how is that, is that being dismantled as well by you doing this work? Like, where are those people that kind of, because I feel like that is so difficult. Obviously, if you're not, if you haven't traveled to these countries, it's hard for people to understand how that even works. But but that kind of like authority, influence and power and control, how are they reacting to the dismantling of their economies? Because I'm sure that there's, you know, conflict or pain back from that side. Like, how does that all work?

• 25:37Jay Shetty?

  Sorry if it's an ignorant question, but it's just.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Not at all. No, no, not at all. And I think that, I guess, one thing to understand is that even they are not making a fortune off of this system, right? It's it's just really expensive to find water, to put it in a truck, to buy the diesel, to drive the truck around and distribute it. I mean, the efficiency of that versus doing it through a pipe is incredible, right? So it's no surprise that they have to charge those amounts. And so, yes, there's going to be dislocations there with. Some of these vendors, but we haven't seen that crop up as a problem. You know, it happens incrementally. You know, everybody in the world is used to kind of having to reinvent themselves. And so I think that, you know, they they might go on to other businesses.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Uh, and and you you have tanker truck water that's needed for construction sites still, so they can kind of adjust to to those types of markets.

• 26:31Jay Shetty?

  Got it. That makes sense. And Matt, what about you? Was there a particular story of, I I mean, there's plenty in the book, but if there if there's someone that comes to mind right now where, you know, you you saw women being more negatively affected by this than men. Obviously, we've got the answer of why from Gary, but is there a particular story that stands out or an experience in that direction?

• 26:53Speaker 01

  About eleven years ago, we were in Haiti and and at a uh, um, we we kind of were there for the kind of the christening of this new water system in this small village. And it was a real celebration. And and amidst this celebration, I was introduced to a little girl who was thirteen. And and, you know, she and I got her story and her story was that she spent three to four hours every day collecting water. And she was very lucky because that was she could still be in school, but after school, every day she went and she collected water. It took her three or four hours to get water for her family. So I say to this kid, I'm like, well, hey, you know, I kind of joke and say, now you have more time for homework. Right? And she looks at me totally seriously and she's like, I don't need more time to do homework. I'm the smartest kid in my class.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  And the way she said it, I knew she was telling me the truth. I was like, oh, I remember being thirteen and like, I remember you in my class. You are the smartest person. And uh, and I said, all right, well, so what are you going to do with all this time that you just found? You know, your your newfound four hours a day? And she looked at me and she goes, I'm gonna play.

• 27:57Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I just in it, but it like buckled me, you know, I I because at the time, my my oldest daughter was thirteen. And, you know, so again, I felt that connection to this kid and like, what else should a thirteen year old girl be thinking about, you know? She should be thinking about playing. And that's, you know, again, another one of those incalculable ways in which this is so pernicious, right? It just robs people of, you know, in this case, it robs children of their childhoods, you know, and they're been there and then their potential, the potential of their adulthood. So, um, so so, yeah, it's things like that. And It's good for us, you know, we go out about once a year. I, I, I go once a year. Gary goes a lot more often, but

• 28:40Speaker 01

  to, to kind of go to these, do these field visits and kind of connect to people and talk. And it's just because as these numbers are accelerating and we're, and we're kind of going from strength to strength with our, with our, with our work, which is really exciting. It's, it's important to, to kind of keep in, you know, keep a, remind ourselves of, of, of what it means because it becomes numbers. Forty three point seven million people. I mean, what a number. But, you know, I'm, I'm still thinking about a girl I met 12 years ago, you know, and, and so there are a lot, there are so many millions of these people that we'll never meet, but, um, but all of the stories are, are like that, you know, and all, this is all about positive change.

• 29:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. As a follow up to that, Matt, how is, how is your work with those people affected your daughter too? Because I'm intrigued as to how, you know, for her seeing her father, you know, be so service focused and you know, giving energy to this, like, have, have you taken, have you, and Gary too, have, have you taken your kids out? Like, you know, have, have you taken other children out and young people out? I'm just fascinated to hear how it feels when you're looking at someone your age. Uh, as opposed to both of you, obviously as older men looking at younger people, but like to have people looking at people their own age who have this mindset. I would love to hear some stories in that regard.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  I, I talk about in the book, my mom and, and, and how she took me as a teenager to, um, places where I witnessed extreme poverty and it was, you know, and she didn't do any finger wagging at me or lecturing. She just let me absorb it and, and it really impacted me. And so my, my kids are what my, our, our oldest is 23 and so she's out of the nest. And then we've got a 15, a 13 and an 11 year old. And so I've taken the 23 year old and, and, uh, and I've taken, uh, our 15 year old. We, we took her on a trip to the Philippines a few years ago, so she might've been 13 at the time. Uh, you know, it's, it's kind of eat different with each kid. You kind of see, I, at what age can you, is this going to be a positive, a positive, you know, is it, is this gonna?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Influence you positively and and so I took my my my daughter and and her best friend on on on a trip and it was and it was great and it's you know letting them absorb you know with the kind of privilege that they have and they come from and that you know this is all about where you're born and you're born into a family you don't have any you know say over it and and and and and letting them try to put their let them try to put their lives in some context which is how I felt that what I felt happened to me when when I when I when my mother introduced me to a larger world suddenly my life started to make more sense right and I and

• 31:20Speaker 01

  you know we're all trapped in these subjective realities and and and limited by them in some way but I feel like travel and experience like this is kind of the greatest gift because it it it helps at least to try to open us up.

• 31:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I think that's beautiful what you said about gauging when it's right for the individual because every you know there's no right age for any of them to have this experience but really making it personalized I think that makes a lot of sense Gary how about you I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

• 31:48Speaker 02

  I had a chance to take my daughter to to Kenya and Ethiopia when she was about the same age as Matt's daughter when we were in the Philippines and

• 31:57Speaker 02

  yeah it's it's you know those types of experiences you never know how they're going to reverberate later you know certainly you know you know having that experience helped shape her I you know she's done some great volunteer work herself she was volunteer teacher you know after she got out of college and so I think those some of the echoes of what she saw there and experienced there and the fortune that she has relative to to many others in the world has has cropped up and and will continue to.

• 32:28Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. I I want you to explain Gary we've mentioned it a few times now. And of course, you talk about it deeply in the book. For our audience, I'd love for you to explain exactly in a simple way how water credit works. And then Matt, I want you to talk about when you actually, you know, you had a hard time accepting the idea behind water credit and then what made you change your mind to it. Because I think that's what I find fascinating about this partnership between both of you is that it wasn't just like this, oh, we both love this. Let's get, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't as simple as that. There's, there's been a lot of planning, thought, intention behind this partnership between both of you. And I'd, and I'd love to understand that. So Gary, if you can explain what it is, how it works, how it functions. We've obviously heard about some of the benefits and some elements of how it works,

• 33:11Jay Shetty?

  but I just want people to have a really clear idea. And then Matt, if you could tell us about your journey with how you changed your mind about it, that would be great. For sure. This episode is brought to you by Orange Theory Fitness. One of the best investments you can make is in your own strength. The choices you make today can help shape how you feel for years to come. Orange Theory Fitness provides a one hour workout to build strength, burn fat, and build muscle with an expert coach guiding you every step of the way. Head to orangetheory.com/onpurpose to learn more and get your first class free. Orange Theory Fitness, helping people live longer, more vibrant lives. Terms and conditions apply. See webpage in studio for details.

• 33:53Jay Shetty?

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• 34:27Jay Shetty?

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• 35:00Speaker 02

  Sure, I'd be happy to. I think, you know, it is rooted in that concept that people are already paying for water, right? The challenge is they don't have that, you know, $200, $300, $400 upfront that they need to get a water connection or to build a toilet at their home or to install a hand pump or a water tank. And so they are struggling day to day. They can afford, you know, a dollar or two a day to get water, but they can't afford those large investments. And so what we saw, you know, we saw that people were struggling with this. And so it's like, well, what if we could get microfinance institutions that are already operating around the world just to make loans to them? That makes complete sense, right?

• 35:44Speaker 02

  And then they would repay the loans. Well, we went knocking on the doors of a lot of those MFIs, microfinance institutions, and we kind of got the door slammed in our face. They're like, you guys don't understand microfinance. It's about income generating loans. You know, we make loans for sewing machines or cows because like by the end of the week, you're generating revenue because you're selling clothes or you're selling milk. This is the way it works. And we're like, but we believe it will work because it's going to help these people work at paying jobs and, you know, that part of it. So it's like, we'll take on the risk. And this is why we raise philanthropic capital, because we need to make grants to a lot of these partners so that they can de-risk these types of loans, so that they can do the market research and understand what things are good to loan for,

• 36:27Speaker 02

  what technologies are good, which ones are not, to help them then launch lending businesses. Once they do, then they go to the capital markets and get the wholesale capital, then break it into millions of these microloans. And so for a woman who gets that loan, literally overnight, you know, she may have been spending three hours a day securing water the day before. She now has a water tap right at her home. And so literally the values created overnight for her to go out and work at a paying job so that she can repay the loan. And now you fast forward and you know, these loans, uh, you know, three point five billion dollars in loans have gone out. And they're repaid at a ninety nine percent rate.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Over eighty five percent of the borrowers live on less than six dollars a day. About thirty percent live on less than two dollars a day. And yet they keep coming forward to take out these loans because it makes sense for them. And they get the solutions that they want. And they don't feel like a charity case anymore. They feel like a market as a customer that's being served. And that's how the whole thing can work financially. So that we've now got the the financial plumbing, if you will, that connects the global capital markets where people can get a financial return on their investment. To women making a few dollars a day. Everybody wins and we all move forward.

• 37:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, Gary, thank you for that. Thanks for connecting the dots. I know we talked about, you know, parts of that all over this conversation so far, but that that was a really comprehensive breakdown, and I think that really helps. Because there's so many facets of that that I think is is new, like it's just so new, it's so alien to us. Which which just shows how big an issue it is. And and how much emphasis it needs. And and Matt, tell us about when you first had the idea and you were skeptical slightly, I guess, and then you you obviously have come around one eighty.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I was excited about it. As I, as, you know, as I kind of drilled down on it and and and really worked it over with Gary and and thought about it. But there is, there was the aspect of it. That was a little stomach turning, which was, wait a minute, we're going to make people. The poorest people on earth pay for, you know, I mean, they're going to take these, we're going to loan them money, we're not gonna, right? But but philosophically, we're very aligned in this idea about, you know, charity. Quote unquote, charity and and and how is you've like, like, there's a paternalistic aspect to it. There's a, there's a kind of, you know, here's your solution, you're welcome. You know, uh, arrogance about it, uh, oftentimes and.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  And and what Gary's talking about is with these loan programs, the dignity that come with them. Right. And it's it's it's the dignity on the side of the borrower, but it's also on the side of the lender kind of going, I see you as a human being. You're a customer. You know what I mean? We can do business. It's a very different relationship than you're just some problem I gotta throw money at. Right. And and so so I got over that pretty quickly. You know, I mean, my stomach is like, oh, God, market based solutions. Oh, no. What am I doing? But but when I really thought about it and, you know, it struck me as completely brilliant. And and that's been borne out.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  I mean, we, you know, we reached our first million people in 2012. And and now, you know, we're we're at 43 million. We're reaching however many million a quarter now. And it's just really accelerating. And that and that is illustrative of, you know, the the demand, right? The demand for these loans because they make sense. And and it's not that paternalistic kind of charity solution that's going to be not working in five years because it's nobody's going to take a loan out for something they don't want.

• 40:21Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  They they know what solution they need. And that's what they're going to take a loan out for. And it's going to work. And that's a sustainable solution for somebody. And it's also them solving their own problem. And and it just took us to to to nudge the market towards them and and let them claim their own agency and and solve their own problem with with dignity.

• 40:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I I think that point of dignity is is so powerful and so important. I it's I I know exactly what you mean. It takes a while to get around it. Because you're like, wait a minute, are we charging people for, you know, like, how does this work? But

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, in the book, like if you're going across the desert and you see somebody, you know, thirsty, you know, and then you sell them a bottle of water, like, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't feel right, you know?

• 41:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, but, but you're saying, as, as you rightly said, that from a long-term perspective and from a sustainability perspective, this person's now building confidence, they're, they're building, as you said, a sense of agency, they're feeling empowered, they're feeling a sense of assurance that they are growing through this journey as well, and they're able to, as you said, loan it for things that are important to them. Tell, tell me about this partnership for change that you both have, because I think, you know, I, I wonder whether when both of you got passionate, because as far as I know, you got passionate independently and then, of course, connected with each other about this cause, when, when you're looking for a partnership for change, I think that can, you know, take a lot of time, effort, patience, there's so many things that need to align.

• 41:54Jay Shetty?

  If there are people in our community audience thinking right now, like, oh, I'd love to have someone else in my life that I could work with passionately about this, or I would love to find someone, what are some of the things that they should look for? Matt, we obviously know Gary was your second choice, so we'll, we'll start with what you were looking for in your first choice. And, and Gary, I'm sure you had some other picks too, so, but no, I would love to know what you were looking for in a partner. Were you even looking, or was it just, it was just so like, oh, wow, I'm so grateful that I bumped into someone who has this passion? From both of your perspectives, I'd love to hear how you approach this, because making a change is not easy, it's a long journey, you need different skillsets and different networks and communities, and so I often think that a lot of people say, oh, yeah, when, when I find someone, then I can do something.

• 42:38Jay Shetty?

  You were both independently, I mean, Gary, you started in your college days, right? So I want to hear about how it was in the search of a partner, the pursuit of the partner, and then what you actually looked for and why it was a good fit.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Well, I was looking for the expert in the space and that Gary's name was the name that kept coming up and and and in getting to know him, it was just clear why. And I mean, he's just brilliant. And these, I mean, this water credit innovation is is a really big deal. And and and and he arrived at that through his through his intelligence, but also through his tenacity. And and so I he was he was a logical partner for me, exactly what I was looking for. I, you know, I kind of woke up in my late twenties with this very bizarre

• 43:29Speaker 01

  reality of being a celebrity and and and and wanted to find ways to do something good with that. And and and I needed help, you know, and I wanted to be effective. I didn't want to just, it wasn't about soothing my own, you know, ego, it was about really trying to do something that was helpful. And and I think just in meeting Gary, like, you know, we, we joined our organizations and he had had water partners at that point for 20 years and instantly gave up the title of water partners in for water.org. And I think that showed like, the humility, the the lack of ego, right? And I think we both came at it

• 44:10Speaker 01

  from that perspective. It was never about us or about ego. It was really about how can we be most effective, right? And that and we're really aligned in that way. And and in that sense, he was just the perfect partner for me.

• 44:23Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. You you made up for it, Matt. That was very heartfelt. And no, genuinely, that's, that's so wonderful to hear. I love hearing about that and and the quality of humility and like you said, being able to put aside water partners and start something on the water.org. That's fantastic. Gary, Gary, your thoughts?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, you know, the the serendipity of it was that's definitely at play, allowing our paths to cross. But certainly, you know, I had been heads down on this problem and had been trying to innovate and, you know, this this whole concept of, you know, coming at it from, you know, initially, I was very much about like, let's go Drill wells and let's, you know, raise a lot of money and give it away. But quickly realized that there was never going to be enough, right? And so this concept of lighting a candle versus cursing the darkness is kind of where I came at it from. And so I was trying to to find those ways to do that. And we, you know, we were catching on, you know, water credit was was like, it wasn't like gangbusters yet.

• 45:27Speaker 02

  But we knew that we kind of had, you know, a tiger by the tail in terms of how this could scale. And but, you know, I I'm an engineer, like, I don't, what do I know about storytelling? What do I know about like moving an audience? What do I know about like having a big voice in this? Because we were ready for that, because it we, you know, we had a certain amount of humility until that point. And then it's like, now we got to tell the story. And then to be able to get introduced to and cross paths with, you know, an incredible storyteller that Matt is and seeing that firsthand. It just was, you know, it was one of those things, one plus one equals three for sure. And it seemed that way at first for both of us.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  But then as we got to know each other, kind of at a deeper level, our philosophies and our upbringings and our experiences. It's just like, OK, I can really trust this guy. I think we both felt that from both directions. And once you have that trust and you have, you know, everything set in motion, it's kind of the table set for you. And you bring those relative strengths. You know, I can certainly say Matt has evolved more as a water expert than I have as an actor. Very low bar to clear there. But what also he didn't tell you earlier is I went to Ben Affleck first. He turned me down flat. I ended up.

• 46:45Jay Shetty?

  I love it. I love it. You've both been so generous with your time. I have one last question, which is just how people can support. Of course, I highly recommend everyone goes and grabs a copy of the book, The Worth of Water. Our story of chasing solutions to the world's greatest challenge. It will be in the comments, the caption, the bio, the link in the podcast. You can go and order the book right now. But Gary, you used a water metaphor at the end of the chapter of the chapter called The Wave. And you said. To end the crisis, we need a wave. I would love to know how my community can be a part of that wave, how I can be a part of that wave. What are the opportunities and ways people can get involved? Because I think ultimately, there's going to be no one who reads the book that isn't moved by the work,

• 47:28Jay Shetty?

  who everything you've shared today, I think will want to move people into action. How can people support? That's the last question I want to ask you because I know I'm mindful of your time as well.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  That's a great question. And you know, this, we do need that support. This is such a big crisis. It's all hands on deck and there are a number of ways. Of course, you know, as authors, Matt and I are donating all of our fees back to water.org for the book. So every time somebody buys the book, you are helping people get access to safe water. You know, if the book moves you, take it to your book club, you know, spread the word that way, you know, pass the book on to someone else. Because it is, you know, these individual acts of people who provide that funding that we need so that these individual stories that are in the book can come to life. That is what it's going to take from all of us. And to the extent that, you know,

• 48:22Speaker 02

  you're using your voice, Jay, to help make this happen, we greatly appreciate that.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 48:28Jay Shetty?

  No, I would love to visit one of the places with you one day. I think it would be a really beautiful experience for me and my team too, so.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  We'd love to have you.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that'd be really, yeah, that'd be really beautiful. That'd be wonderful to do, so. Matt, did you want to add anything to everything that Gary just said of how anyone can get involved or anything that comes to your mind or heart?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, it's $5 to bring a person clean water for life. And, you know, so it's not, you know, yeah, I know, it's crazy, but that's what it is. And, yeah, and the book, obviously, you know, you know, all the, you know, our money goes towards that. So, so, yeah, and please share the story and, you know, talk about it. It's a really fascinating issue, I promise, if you want to engage with it and, you know, and try to kind of move the needle. Because it's, again, so hard for us to relate, you know, because water is such abundance for us.

• 49:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and as we were saying on Purpose, it's like when we are a part of the solution, the view of the problem changes, right? When you see these stories, and that's why I love what Gary and Matt have done here. When you read these stories and you hear these stories and when you share the book with people and you get to see that change does work, that there are positive stories, that, you know, we do live in a world that has challenges and issues, but that $5 could make a difference to someone's daily life and how they feel when they wake up in the morning. And that makes a difference, like that has a ripple effect. And I think we need to tell these stories more because we can get caught up in the stories if we can't do anything and we are helpless.

• 50:04Jay Shetty?

  But Gary and Matt, I'm so grateful that you've given us a platform through which we can all feel like we're having an impact. Again, I highly recommend everyone grab the book. As you said, it all proceeds from the book. Go towards all the amazing work. And I thank you both for taking the time and giving me your energy and look forward to continuing to support you guys. Thank you so much for what you're doing. It's so powerful.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Really appreciate it. Thanks, Gary.

• 50:29Jay Shetty?

  Take care. Thank you so much. Everyone who's been listening or watching, make sure you share this interview, pass it along, tag us all on social media, letting us know what's resonated with you, what's connected with you. Share it. When you order the book, tag me to let me know you've ordered it so that I can reshare that across social media as well. And thank you all for listening and watching. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Gary. Thank you so much.

• 51:01Speaker 03

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• 51:15Speaker 04

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