Glennon Doyle ON: How To Stop Asking For Permission & Listening To Other People’s Opinions

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. When Doyle announced her divorce four weeks before the release of her book detailing the rebuilding of said marriage, the author and activist knew it was a no turning back moment. Honesty with her husband, her kids, and ultimately, herself, charted a course for Glennon to tap into her most true and untamed self. You'll learn the journey that brought her to be fully present, and her powerful life-changing discoveries about relationships and living authentically. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Value can be found anywhere, even in the clothes sitting untouched in our closets. That's where Vinted comes in. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell clothes you no longer want and get more value out of them. Whether you're running out of space, moving, or simply updating your wardrobe. Listing items is a quick and simple process, and once something sells, Vinted creates a prepaid shipping label for you. And the best part, there are no seller fees, so you keep what you earn. It's a simple way to clear out your closet, be less wasteful, and maybe make some extra money along the way. And if you've been thinking about a wardrobe refresh, this can make it feel a little more worthwhile. You're not just letting go of clothes, you're getting more value from what you already have.

• 0:43Jay Shetty?

  Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start selling with no seller fees, so you keep every dollar you earn. This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to-do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically-backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop.

• 1:26Jay Shetty?

  AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet, AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements, and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 2:01Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1. Are you feeling September reset too? Shorter days, longer to do lists, earlier alarms, all those routines you promised to yourself you'd pick back up. It can feel like your whole life is recalibrating. And when everything around you is changing, it helps to have a few things you can rely on. AG1 Next Gen is one of those easy habits to keep. It's the clinically backed, comprehensive daily health drink that supports your gut health, energy production, and foundational nutrition all in one scoop. AG1's ingredients are sourced from quality partners for absorption, potency, and nutrient density to deliver the foundational nutrition your body needs. And alongside a proper diet,

• 2:45Jay Shetty?

  AG1 Next Gen meets 94% of nutrient requirements and it's clinically shown to enrich the gut microbiome. For a limited time, save 20% on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com/onpurpose. That's drinkag1.com/onpurpose.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I think that there's necessary pain and it's like, I've just categorized it for myself. Like, there's just pain that you just, you know, losing people or losing dreams or, you know, losing, losing. These are the things, they're just the price you pay for being an open-hearted human being.

• 3:34Jay Shetty?

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come every week to listen, to learn, and to grow. I'm so grateful that our community at this time has stayed strong, that has been supporting their loved ones and going above and beyond to support your communities, your towns, your cities. I know that all of you have been doing so much incredible work and I know that you've been taking a lot of joy and a lot of resilience from our incredible guests on On Purpose. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out and I cannot wait to share it with you.

• 4:16Jay Shetty?

  I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules. Go to jayshettytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now, today is no different, and I have to say, I'm personally very excited because I've been following this individual for many, many years.

• 5:00Jay Shetty?

  And it's a great honor that when I was able to reach out to her on Instagram, it was very, very organic. There was no booking involved or any of that, like all the other guests. We never do that here. We want real relationships and real conversations. And I DM'd her and I was hoping that she would see the DM and she responded immediately. And we were able to make this happen. So today's guest is none other, the one and only Glennon Doyle, author, activist, founder of Together Rising, and the author of the number one New York Times bestseller, Untamed, which has been at the top of every bestseller list since its publication on March 10th, and is also Reese Witherspoon's book club selection. She's also the author, which I'm sure you'll know, and if you don't, you should go back and get those two.

• 5:44Jay Shetty?

  The author of New York Times bestsellers, Love Warrior, which was Oprah's book club selection, and Carry On Warrior. Now, what I love about Glennon most is her heart of an activist and a thought leader. And she's the founder of Together Rising, right? She's raised over $25 million for women, families, and children in crisis. She lives in Florida, where she's joining us on today with her wife and three children. And today I'm excited about learning more about how we can all become untamed. Welcome to the show and on purpose, Glennon. Glenn, thank you for being here.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Jay, thank you for having me. I'm so excited that this is finally happening. I've been following you forever and I just love your heart. And you have made the world have a bigger heart. And I'm just really happy to be here. Thank you.

• 6:32Jay Shetty?

  Thank you, and I'm really looking forward to meeting you in person. I can't wait till all of this is past and I can fly over there or you're in LA and we can sit together and speak more. But I'm glad that we're getting to connect at this time. And so I wanted to start with that, actually. Like, how have you been managing quarantine with your children and, you know, your wife? And have you learned something new at this time? Or have there been any revelations?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, one of the revelations is that this much family-togetherness cannot be God's plan for us.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  Wow, Zache, wow. I mean, I would answer that differently every day. Some days I feel so hopeful and I have, you know, all these beautiful ideas about how we're getting to know each other better. And some days, I just, wow. I mean, I think it's a hard time. One, because of all of the real pain and loss that is going on in the world. I mean, because of Together Rising, I'm reading people's stories nonstop every day. And it's just unbelievable what people are losing. And this new way of losing, that's brand new, where we are losing people and then we don't get to go to them?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  I mean, wow, that's a whole, um, sort of just paradigm-shifting experience. And then on top of all of that real pain, I think it's an interesting time because we're dealing with all of that while being stuck, right? Just, we're not used to this kind of stuckness. We're used to being able to distract ourselves with all of our busyness and all of our, you know, the stuff we do so that we don't have to sit with what has always been true.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  Which is that we're unbelievably vulnerable and no one's in control down here. And at the end of the day, we just have, you know, our hearts in each other. But I think we're all, it reminds me a lot of being in early sobriety.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Of just having those moments where, you know, I think of us like snow globes. You know, this, we keep ourselves shaken up all the time.

• 8:45Jay Shetty?

  I love that analogy. Go on, Karen.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  So we don't have to see the thing in the middle, you know, which is the truth of being human and how fragile it all is. And, and now it feels like this great settling of the snow globe where we all are just stuck with ourselves and our vulnerability and our people. We're stuck with our people, right? So all the little, you know, all the little cracks, all the little truths about ourself and our relationships that we can kind of ignore with our busyness are just sitting there with us on the couch now, you know, um, which is so hard. And also as, you know, everything beautiful in my life has come from sobriety, has come from letting the

• 9:31Speaker 01

  snow settle. So I know that there can be great transformation during this time for sure, but it doesn't make it any less painful.

• 9:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's the interesting thing, right? When I'm hearing you speak and, and you're so right that when you're stuck or when you're sitting and you're just observing and you're finally able to hear and listen and be present with everything that, like you said, you've either ignored, been distracted from, been too busy for, but it's still uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable, right? Like even though we know, or you've done it before, and that's what I find interesting, what you just said, you know, from your experience that moments like this can be transformative and healing. But that doesn't make it any more comfortable to go through.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Never.

• 10:22Jay Shetty?

  And so how do you deal with that? How do you personally, and we were just thinking about it just a few seconds before, how are you personally dealing with that when you're like, oh, this seems familiar, right? I've kind of, you know, I've kind of felt this before. I know what this feels like to sit with all my, you know, stuff, but at the same time, it's not like it's become easier, like because I've done it before. So, so how do you process that mentally and spiritually for yourself?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  Well, you said process. That's what it is. It's like, it's not, the way that I experience pain.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  And the waiting that comes after it and then the rising that eventually comes is always the same, like no matter how many times I can remind myself, oh, this is this part. This is where everything sucks and I hate it and I feel uncomfortable. It doesn't make it, I can know that it's an important part of the process, but it doesn't change the experience of it at all. Okay, so it doesn't make it hurt any less. I just try to remember what I know from the process and all of that for me comes from sobriety. I mean, the first time I ever, I got, I became bulimic when I was 10 years old. Okay, so I was just a super sensitive kid and I didn't have,

• 11:33Speaker 01

  I didn't have whatever skills or tools that I needed to, to kind of manage that sensitivity. So I just started numbing it right away. And I think one of those reasons, Jay, is, as you know and speak about all the time, is that

• 11:47Speaker 01

  we just don't learn, you know, in our culture, in this culture, we learn that we're supposed to be happy. Right? That happiness is the goal, that, that we're supposed to be happy all the time and we worship happiness. And so when, when the normal feelings come that we all have of fear and doubt and jealousy and pain and anger, well, when I started feeling those things, I just thought something was wrong with me.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Because nobody was talking about that, right? I was supposed to be happy, especially as a girl, like I was supposed to be smiling and meh, meh. Um, so that's why I started numbing so early. And, um, that turned into alcoholism and all the things. And then I got sober when I was 25 and I went to my first AA meeting and it was completely freaking amazing. I just remember thinking, oh, here's where the honest people are.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Right?

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  And then I kept going and then on my, on what they don't tell you about sobriety is everybody wants you to get sober when you're drunk because you ruined everyone's lives. Okay, so, so everyone's desperate for you to get sober, um, as were all the people in my life, but, and so people talk about sobriety like it's so great and then we get sober and it's terrible, okay? It's the worst. It's why we started drinking in the first place, right? It's like, it's like, oh my god, like I forgot how much it all hurts, you know? And so I was in that stage, you know, it feels like defrosting, like your painful process of getting feeling back, you know?

• 13:28Speaker 01

  And I went to my, that meeting and I finally stood up and spoke and I said something like, I'm glutton, I've been sober for six days and I feel awful and everything hurts and I just am afraid that there's some kind of secret to life that everyone else has that I don't have and I've never had it. And I just feel like it's because I don't have that secret, it's just harder for me to be human than it is for everyone else. And that's all. And I sat down and this woman came and sat down next to me afterwards and she said, I just want to tell you something that someone told me in early sobriety and that is this.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  The secret is that feeling all of your feelings is just really hard.

• 14:18Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  And it's not hard right now. Life is not hard right now because you're doing it wrong. Life is hard right now because you're finally doing it right.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Right? Because you're feeling all of your feelings and the thing is that all feelings are fulfilled.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Okay, Nanjeh. I understand, especially to you, that must, that must sound very simple. But it was mind blowing to me.

• 14:46Jay Shetty?

  No, it's huge. It's, even now, I have to remind, I, I don't think you ever, I mean, you, you may, but I know that, I don't think you ever get to a point where something that that's simple is not profound every time you feel it. We still have this default mode approach to feeling our feelings. We still go, I don't want to feel that. Right? If you've got to have a, I, I find the time when you feel it the most is if you've got to have a tough conversation with someone. You avoid it. Right? If you really want to say something to someone and you've been feeling it for a long time, but you're not allowing yourself to feel it fully, I, I think we do it, we get lost in that cycle again and again and again. And I feel that you just feel it for less time.

• 15:27Jay Shetty?

  But hearing you say that right now, despite its simplicity, it's still as profound every time. Because I think we're just wired to constantly avoid any sort of negative feelings. Like, like you said, you, you mentioned jealousy there. If you feel jealousy, you just go, well, I can't be jealous, that, that can't be a good thing. I'm, I'm a terrible person. Now I'm a terrible friend because I'm jealous of my friend's life or whatever it is. Whereas if you just go, okay, wait, why am I jealous? Let me feel that jealousy out. Like, why is it, where is it coming from? What is this jealousy? Like, all those questions, which I'd love to process with you as well, to understand some of the stages of that process. But I'm with you, sorry, carry on, I'm with you.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  No, no, that's exactly it. I mean, I just remember thinking, all feelings are for feeling? Like, I didn't know that. Like, I thought that happiness was for feeling. And that envy and fear and anger and all those things were for avoiding and numbing and denying and deflecting. Right? Um, and so I just remember thinking, okay, I guess I'm going to try this. I guess I'll try feeling all my feelings. Um, and Jay, I couldn't, I, I remember, I used to, I decided I could not, the one day to time, time thing drove me crazy because days are very long.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  A day is too long for me, okay? So, I started practicing feeling all my feelings within a song. I would lay on my bed and play one song. And I would say, okay, I'm gonna let, because music was too feely for me.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  I couldn't let, I, I would turn the music off. Right, it was too, it would get, make me achy and some practice feeling just three minutes at a time. One song at a time. And then that turned into full days. And what I do know about pain

• 17:17Speaker 01

  is that it's like, you know, when they talk about emotion, like emotion, energy in motion, it's energy in motion in your body and when we let it flow, it does something. Right, it changes us. It changes, like, we have, the only reason that we're here has to be to become. Like, we just, we're here to keep becoming truer and more beautiful versions of ourself. And that energy of emotion is one of the things that allows us to become. Right, so when we avoid it or we, we easy button our way out of it with all the things we use,

• 17:55Speaker 01

  it's like, it's like we're jumping out of the cocoon right before we would have become a butterfly. Right?

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:01Speaker 01

  Just like we, we, we can transport ourselves out of the pain, but then we miss all the transformation. And all of them are so specific, like envy, you just mentioned envy. Um, that's a big one for me because I am just, listen, I'm just envious, okay? I, I am, I always have been. It's just what, it's one of those things that is one of the least, my least favorite things about myself. Right?

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  Um, like I actually used to say, Jay, I just don't get jealous. I'm not an envious person. Like, who? Only envious people would say some stupid things.

• 18:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's always the thing that we, in the Bhagavad Gita, which is a book that I love and studied very deeply in my time as a monk, it says that attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Oh, of course.

• 18:51Jay Shetty?

  So anytime you hear someone deny something, or someone obsess with something, that, you know, they're two sides of the same coin. So, yeah, no, absolutely. But thank you for being so open and sharing that, because I think, again, it's easy to be like, "Oh, I feel jealous feelings," but to really come out and say, "Hey, this is something I really don't like about myself," you know, that requires a lot of courage, and that requires a lot of, it requires a lot of, yeah, courage being the right word. It requires bravery to be able to say that.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Thank you. I think it just also requires the knowledge that we're just all human, and that's okay.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  It just starts to sound funny when people deny basic things about being human, because to me, it doesn't reveal maturity, it reveals a lack of awareness of what a human being is.

• 19:43Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  So, and we can work with all of these things. Like, if we have envy, which I gotta believe everyone has on some level.

• 19:54Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Right?

• 19:58Speaker 01

  If we can actually believe that all feelings are for feeling, and that they're instructive in some way, I mean, okay, I'll tell you this, when people, when I was drinking all the time, someone handed me a book that was written by a woman, and said, "This is a beautiful book, you should read it." I would not read it. Okay, I didn't want to look at it, I didn't want to see it, I didn't, I didn't, I would find a million reasons that I didn't like that author, and I didn't like any, like, something about looking at words that a woman had written. It felt like looking straight at the sun. It just hurt so much, okay?

• 20:37Speaker 01

  And I think I know that that is because nothing burns quite like seeing someone else do the thing that you know in your heart, you, a braver, healthier version of yourself was born to do.

• 20:53Jay Shetty?

  Hmm, yeah, absolutely. And, and, and that's partly why I think sometimes, at least I've noticed in myself, and, and this is kind of how I spot envy and jealousy in myself, because sometimes I think you become oblivious to it, because I sometimes disguise it in criticism or justification of why that person has that thing. So, so I disguise my, my jealousy or envy by going, "Oh yeah, but you know, they had like rich parents," or, or you know, "But like, they just got really lucky," or, you know, "Yeah, but their work's not really," you know, whatever it is, and you kind of disguise it, and so it kind of hides there, and, and you kind of feel like, "Oh, I'm not jealous, I just have good observational skills." Uh, and, and, you know what I mean?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  I know way too well what you mean, and it makes me feel so good that, that you have some of that experience too.

• 21:45Jay Shetty?

  Definitely.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Mine, it's like, it's like, it's like admiration that's like holding its breath, you know?

• 21:53Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  It's like, it could be a positive thing if we embraced it fully, but for me, it's like my body becomes this machine where it's like admiration goes in and then, and like, snark comes out, like, "Oh, I never liked her anyway," right?

• 22:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  But really, what I learned was that if I could not do that, if I could not, you know, hot, but hot potato my envy away, that it's really pointing me towards something that I was meant to do.

• 22:25Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  It's actually really how uncomfortable, but helpful emotion. It's often can guide us towards our purpose, guide us to who we admire. You know, like the most freeing thing for me is when I see something that someone has done and I love it and I think it's awesome. For me, it's always something that someone's written or something. My first experience was crunchy. I think, I wish I would have written that, I wish I could. And then I just, that's my knee jerk reaction, but if I can somehow either reach out to that person and tell them how much I loved it, or if I can't reach out to that person because I don't know that person, if I share it with other people.

• 23:10Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  The whole crunchiness goes away. It's like back to abundance, back to abundance, and it just feels.

• 23:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. Yeah, no, that's so beautiful. And you're so right. And those are all steps of the process. Like, I don't think you ever get to a point where you don't feel that initial reaction. I don't believe that. This is my belief. I'd love to hear yours. I don't believe that you ever get to a point where you don't have a envious, negative, ego-driven thought. What I believe is that you entertain it for less time.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 23:47Jay Shetty?

  And so now, before, previously, you would obsess over that for seven days. And you would complain, and you would criticize, and you would compare, and you'd talk about it with everyone negatively, and you've got some. Whereas now, as you work on it, as you work on the process, don't get obsessed, or at least my thoughts, I don't get obsessed from trying to remove that thought for a long time. That's just not realistic. But you will find yourself, oh, I only felt like that for seven minutes, and now I shared it, and now I feel positive about it again, you know? And so I just try not to, I try not to make anything eternally present or eternally absent.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 24:26Jay Shetty?

  I just, you've made me, I've never said that before. I just thought of that right now, talking to you. Like, I try not to make anything eternally present or eternally absent, because nothing can be that. Like, I think we always go like, I never want to have this thought again. Or I always want to feel this way, right? We say both of those things. I always want to feel this way, or I never want to have this thought again. The truth is, neither of them are actually possible.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right. But what you can do, what I've learned, I guess that's what awareness is, right? It's like, oh, here's that thing happening again. And I actually think of myself, I'm like, oh, look at you. You're such a sweet little idiot. Here you are. You know, like, look at you, look at you again. Here's that part where, right, that's what I think of. Here's that part where you feel like there's not enough and you missed the boat and no one likes you. Here's that sweet, go ahead for a minute and then we're gonna move on to the next part.

• 25:23Jay Shetty?

  Hmm. What do, what do you think it is about our childhoods? I've become really fascinated in the past. I don't have children, you have children, so you know, you're able to observe them and your life and parenting and that whole dynamic, which I think is, I, I observe at the moment at least, is such a beautiful learning curve or a painful learning curve, but a learning curve nevertheless. Wha- what are your thoughts on how your childhood, and, and not just yours, but everyone's, frames so many of those beliefs and values? And how do you think your childhood specifically, what was it that led you to kind of creating that snow globe kind of feeling?

• 26:05Jay Shetty?

  Because, because I've just got fascinated by how I feel like all of me and my wife talk about it all the time, like how I think all of our values in relationships, in marriage are all framed from what we either saw or didn't see in our parents. And so I'm fascinated by hearing that from different people and, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, being a parent yourself.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it feels like such an, a trap sometimes because it's like, if sometimes it feel, when I look at people, I think, and myself, I think, okay, people do one of two things, right? They, they look at, they experience their childhood and then they are obedient to it, right? They are, they take the values that they learned and they try to, whatever was a good girl or a good boy, like, they try to obey their whole lives. And that looks different in adulthood, but they, they agree, right? They, they carry it with them forever. And then there's the other side, and that's kind of a cage, right? To just stay in the little. The kind of construct that you were

• 27:03Jay Shetty?

  Protinguing.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  It's not creative, in other words, it's repetitive. Um, but then there's the other side of people who just rebel against it, right? Who, who, who look at what was taught to them and the way they were raised and then they rail against it their whole lives, right? That this is just a rebellion, which I have figured out, because I've looked at my wife who did some of that, we figured this out together, that that's just as much of a cage.

• 27:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  Equally uncreative.

• 27:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Because if you're living your life, if you're creating your existence in um, resistance to the man, then you're still fully controlled by the man.

• 27:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  But you're rebelling, right?

• 27:47Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  So, the idea of how you look at what you, you are, you become aware of, of what you learned when you were a kid, and then you sort of take what you want and you create your own thing that is neither rebellion nor an obedience is just, I mean, for me.

• 28:06Jay Shetty?

  That's powerful.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Right? It's like, I don't know how to do it though.

• 28:09Jay Shetty?

  That's really, that's really powerful. It's the same way how the opposite of like fanatical religion versus atheism, fanatical atheism. It's like that.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Same thing.

• 28:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, same, yeah, no, that's such a great, great point, rebellion and obedience. I love that. Sorry, carry on, I'm just like.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  I mean, Abby and I talk about it a lot in terms of faith too, because she was raised Catholic and, and, and she was a gay kid in, in Catholicism, and so she equated the church with God. So, she, when she rejected church, she, in her little childhood heart, felt like, well, now this is when I say goodbye to God. God doesn't love me. I'm not, I, I don't, I don't, I'm, God and I are not friends, okay?

• 28:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  And talk about something hard to get over your whole life, right?

• 28:53Jay Shetty?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  So, so we laugh about it, that Abby has spent her life furious at a God she doesn't believe in.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  So like even that kind of rebellion is like you're still controlled by it though.

• 29:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Well, so um, so I guess my story about childhood is I just, I got so sick so early. You know, at ten that I spent most of my life, I mean, until I didn't get sober till I was twenty six. So I spent most of my formative years just in like doctor's office after doctor's office and just, you know, diagnoses after diagnoses. I was hospitalized in a, what was a mental hospital my senior year in high school. And so my, um, whether it was from my family or my culture, I don't know, wherever it came from. Um, my narrative was you're crazy.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I believed that, like I could do all the things, I could act a certain way to be, see that. But at my root shame belief about myself was you're crazy, right?

• 30:03Jay Shetty?

  That's. And that's a tough belief to hold.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Well, it becomes impossible to trust yourself, right? Because how can a crazy person be trusted not to sabotage all of it?

• 30:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  So when you talk about raising kids and how that has, so I have a little one. My middle child who is, I have to believe a lot like I was as a kid. She's just very, very sensitive. She has big freaking feelings all day, all the days, Jen, all the days. And, um, and so it's like parenting is interesting, first of all, because it's one thing that can require you to live an examined life, right? Because there's many things that that can, that can be the catalyst of this. But parenting is one because you want to teach your kids how to live a good life.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  So for some of us, it's the first time we have to figure out, okay, what the hell do I think is going on?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Right, a bunch of kids saying, so what do I do? How do I act? What does brave mean? What is love? And you're like, okay, hold on. What is love? Okay, so, um, so there's that. It's a beautiful reexamining of everything and figuring out what you really love and what you really believe in and you really want for people. But also, it's a way to heal your ideas.

• 31:32Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. We talk a lot about intentional decision making, and that extends to the practical stuff too, like making sure your coverage actually works for your life. State Farm is there to meet you where you are, and they know how sweet it is to feel good about your decisions. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.

• 32:07Jay Shetty?

  This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are, but it can be challenging to balance style, budget, and endless options. I was looking to create a dedicated calm space for my morning meditation and reading, but I was struggling to find pieces that felt grounding but could also stand up to daily use. I went on Wayfair and found a beautiful, solid wood accent chair and a bookshelf. Now that corner is my favorite place to anchor my day. The quality is incredible, it's built to last, and it completely shifted the energy of the room. Plus, you can shop with Wayfair Verified, where product specialists carefully vet items for quality and functionality, so you can shop with more confidence.

• 32:49Jay Shetty?

  And if putting it all together sounds like a headache, Wayfair can handle delivery, installation, and assembly. Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. If you're talking about quality food, you can't forget Whole Foods Market, who've been holding themselves to the highest standards since they opened in 1980.

• 33:24Jay Shetty?

  That means you'll see thousands of organic products across their stores, from the produce department to the aisles. It also means you'll never see certain ingredients. They've banned artificial sweeteners and colors, high fructose corn syrup and more, so you can shop with peace of mind. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  About yourself.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  So Tish, this little one. I'll just tell you a quick story about her, okay? So this is just to get to our point, but.

• 33:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 33:54Speaker 01

  A few years ago, she, um, her teacher called me from school and she said, Glennon, we have a situation. And I said, I'm sure we do. That call before. And she said, well, I was talking to the kids and I may have accidentally mentioned that the polar bears were losing their homes because the ice caps were melting. She said, Glennon, the other kids thought this was sad, but not too sad to like soldier onto recess, but Tish is still sitting on the floor. Asking question after where, who, where's the polar bear's mom? Like where are the polar bears gonna live now? Where, what are the grownups doing about that? This, that question kills me.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  And Jay, she came home and I'm telling you that our family's life revolved around polar bears for three freaking months. Like I had to put posters on the wall of polar bears. I had to sponsor for polar bears online. We had to talk about polar bears at dinner and at carpool and at parties so incessantly that I just began to hate polar bears.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Rude the day that polar bears were ever born. So, um, one day, I was putting her to bed and she said, Mom. And I said, what, honey? She said, it's the polar bears. And I was like, oh, hell, no, right? And she said, mommy, it's just, it's just that it's the polar bears now, but nobody cares. So soon it'll be us.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  And Jay, she fell asleep and I was like, oh my god!

• 35:32Jay Shetty?

  Wow, yeah, that's how, wow.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  So I just remember that night thinking, oh, I get it. She's not crazy to be heartbroken about the polar bears. The rest of us are crazy not to be heartbroken about the polar bears, right? And I started thinking about this little sensitive kid. You know, in most cultures, Jay, like, as you know, in most cultures, deeply feeling people are identified early. They are, you know, seem to be a little eccentric, but also crucial to the tribe's survival, right? These are the shamans and women, and the medicine men and women, and the monks, and the clergy, and the poets, and the artists. But it's just, and the reason they're critical is because they can see things that other people can't see.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  And they are willing to feel things that other people are not willing to feel. But I think in our culture, we are so hell-bent on speed and productivity that we just, it's easier just to dismiss people like that and call them broken.

• 36:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and damaged.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Right? Rather than thinking, oh, they're actually responding appropriately to a broken world.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Like, they're the canaries in the coal mine. They're the ones standing on the bow of the Titanic going iceberg, iceberg! Right? While everyone else is like, we just want to keep dancing. So, um, so anyway, what I've figured out is watching Tish is not in a million years would I ever call this child broken.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  I would never call her crazy. Right? Which made me rethink everything I've ever believed about myself, right? I wasn't crazy, I wasn't broken. I was just a highly sensitive person without the skills that I needed and tools that I needed to kind of manage that sensitivity, right? So, so for me, and I'm still exactly the same. Like, I'm still, you know, the sensitivity that, you know, I have, deal with depression and anxiety, it's all tied together. And the parts of my life that, that, um, the sensitivity that makes life hard, it's also the sensitivity that makes me a really good artist.

• 37:49Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  It's all same, same. That's what parenthood has done for me. It's helped to be, besides...

• 37:58Speaker 01

  It's just incredibly difficult sometimes, something like that. But it's also helped me revise my old stories about myself.

• 38:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, no, that, I mean, thank you for sharing that story too of Tish because I, I think that that will resonate with, and you know that already, but it will resonate with so many people listening and watching right now because I think people judge themselves for being sensitive souls, people judge themselves for being empath, or people judge other people who are that way. Like, oh yeah, she cries about everything, or you know, he's always gonna, and, and the truth is, you're so right, that actually that person's just more in touch with their true selves, and they're allowing themselves to feel, they just don't have the tools to do that in a effective way, whatever effective means for them. And, and what I, what I find so interesting about what you're sharing and intriguing for me

• 38:52Jay Shetty?

  is, I feel like the, the words that are used from, from the wisdom books that I love and the way it's portrayed, it's all about purifying and engaging the parts of ourselves that we don't love, or don't like. Because then you can transform them into love. It's not about negating, or deflecting, or, you know, putting under the carpet, or, you know, under the rug, or whatever it may be, like, it's not hiding it. And the words purifying and engaging, like, when you can, what you've just done is talk about how you can engage it into art, right? Engaging that same, and you talk a lot about rewriting your story

• 39:33Jay Shetty?

  from anxiety to fire. And I love that, like, I think that that is such a powerful, I'd love for you to tell us about how that came about, and how you were able to actually rewire your approach. Because I think that's where so many people are struck. We keep going, I'm an anxious person, I'm, I'm a, I'm a sensitive person, I'm, and, and it's all negative, and it's, it doesn't, it's not being engaged, it's not being purified. How were you able to rewrite that story into fire?

• 40:00Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, some of it's just defining words right for me, and I'm a words person. And so the word sensitive, for me, I mean, I, I actually have zero negative connotation to the word sensitive. I mean, to me, the opposite of sensitive is not brave, it's insensitive. So like, that's not a badge of honor. Yeah. You're so sensitive. Thank you. I am able to sense. Right? And I'm willing to sense. And, and, and so much good comes of it, right? Yeah. And the anxiety thing, Jay, that's, I don't know, I, I can explain to you what it feels like for me, which is that I

• 40:40Speaker 01

  do tend to worry a lot. I sometimes tend to fall into the lie that everyone's success and health is completely dependent on my commitment to worry about them. Right? But, that I am actually worrying all of us into peace, which is complete crap, okay? Um, the way it manifests in me is, um, I don't know, it's, it's, I, I find it, being depressed and anxious at the same time, it's like being Eeyore and Tigger, like, all at the same time.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Very tricky existence. It's like, always being a little bit too low or too high. But really being able to be landed where life is. Right? Which is like, right here, right now. That's the challenge for me. It's like, okay, not too low, not too high, we're just gonna stay right here in the moment, right? That's the trick. Um, I mean, it, it, it manifests in funny ways for me, Jay. I am the sweatiest person who has ever sweated. Like, I decided, it's, look at me, this is, I can't wear, I can't wear sleeves. I literally cannot wear sleeves. I have thirty black tank tops and thirty white tank tops, and that's all I can wear. Because I have decided that I care the most amount, and that my care about everything

• 41:59Speaker 01

  is shown in sweat.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  So, but, what I will say is that, just like the sensitivity that, that can lead me towards depression makes me a good artist, that fire is what makes me a relentless activist. I'm really good. I'm really good at caring the most amount, telling stories in a way that make other people care the most amount. Getting people to trust me so that they will share resources with me that I can then give to people who are doing amazing work in the world. And so, you know, that fire that leads me to be fearful and sweaty is also the exact same fire that leads me to world healing work.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  And I, I really think, I don't know what you would say about this, but, because I know this is kind of a story, but I feel like it's true, which is that, you know, most of my, I'm an artist and activist, so most of my friends are artists and activists, so most of my friends have depression or anxiety. It feels like a lot of people who have deep creativity or deep fire, um, tend towards some mental differences, tend towards huge world healing work.

• 43:24Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  So it's one of those, like, you take the, I'll take all of it.

• 43:29Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  I don't wanna, like, not have any of it, because for me, you know, it's like when I decided to get sober, and I remember looking at the, I, I, I decided to get sober at the moment that I found out I was pregnant.

• 43:41Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  And Chase, who's now eighteen.

• 43:44Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Um, actually, I think he's seventeen.

• 43:48Jay Shetty?

  He's waiting to be eighteen.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  They're somewhere between, like, they're walking, but not in college. Okay, they're somewhere in that. Um, and I had this knowing of like, oh, I see, if, if I want something as beautiful as motherhood, then I'm gonna have to have all the brutal of being human.

• 44:11Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  That it's both, all the time.

• 44:14Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  All or nothing.

• 44:16Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, you're spot on. I think, and I agree with you, because I find, like, there, there's two, there's two kind of like roots to purpose, or, or paths to purpose, and one of them's passion and the other one's pain. So. So sometimes it's like you're following your passion and what you're excited about. So some artists are doing that, but for a lot of artists, it's like, I wanna heal this pain in the world and I wanna heal this pain in myself. And so then that's my path towards purpose. And I think you're right that I think so many people, especially art and writers and singers and musicians and poets, especially that kind of artistry, it's because of healing a pain in their life or in someone else's that they experience that guides them that way. I just, you reminded me of a movie that I just saw that I keep going on about.

• 45:01Jay Shetty?

  I don't know if you've seen Saving Mister Banks.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  No, but I will tonight.

• 45:05Jay Shetty?

  So it's the story of, so it's Tom Hanks, isn't it? It's Emma Thompson and Tom Hanks. It's, you know, incredible cast, but it's a story of how Walt Disney acquires the rights for Mary Poppins. And it's, and I don't know if you're a fan of Mary Poppins.

• 45:20Speaker 01

  Yes, I love Mary Poppins.

• 45:21Jay Shetty?

  So then you will love this movie because you get to understand the backstory of Mary Poppins and what it was inspired by. But anyway, I'm not gonna give away anymore, but from what we're talking about, what you're saying is so, when you watch that movie, you'll be like, this is exactly what I'm talking about. That you start seeing the parallels of someone's art being a representation of their own experience of something, right? And so I, I, I'm with you on that and I, I definitely see that. I, I guess the point then is, does someone become boring or uncreative if they heal that inside?

• 45:59Speaker 01

  That's the question, right?

• 46:00Jay Shetty?

  That's, that's kinda like my question, cause I go, does that mean that someone forever? It's, it's kind of like saying how people wrote better love songs before they were in relationships.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 46:11Jay Shetty?

  It's like, it's like before you're on the path to finding whatever it is, you're more interesting than when you found it. And, and it's almost like, so, so does, what is your take on that with artists and your own, your own transformation, your own healing, your own journey? How do you, like, yeah, how do you, how do you, how do you?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  There's so many different ways of thinking about this. I mean, first of all, one of my, I'm, I'm hearing my friend Liz in my head right now, because Liz Gilbert is one of my best friends. And she would say that all of this is just horse crap, that all of this suffering, you have to be suffering to be an artist, like that's all, that that is just an old story and not true. So, and I, I trust Liz, okay?

• 46:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  So there's that side too. Um, I don't know, I can tell you this, that I... I have never felt freer in my life. I will always deal with mental differences. I will always, um, I just kind of like feel like I'm wa- I'm always walking around the edge of the black hole.

• 47:12Speaker 01

  I'm just on the edge and that's okay. Like I'm, I'm good on the edge, right? I, I have accepted it, okay? I believe that I will stay, I will not jump, I will stay on the edge forever. And it's okay with me that the whole ground is not solid for me. Okay, there's beauty on the edge for sure. But I don't worship suffering anymore.

• 47:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  When I

• 47:37Jay Shetty?

  What do you mean by that? Tell us what that means because I think, I, that's such a powerful statement and there's so much locked in that. Like what does it mean to worship suffering? Because I think we're not aware that, and sorry, I just want to amplify that. Because I think it's such a powerful statement.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, as someone who grew up in a Christian tradition, as someone who grew up as a woman, that's a double whammy of you earn your worthiness through suffering, right? Um, I remember when I was deciding whether or not to stay in a broken marriage or to follow this unbelievable expansive wide love that I had found with Abby. I decided that I was going to stay in my marriage because I was too afraid of hurting everybody. And I was having a conversation with a friend and I said, you know what? It's fine. I'm just gonna shut this part of myself down. I'm just gonna stay. I'm, it's gonna be hard, but I've always been able to learn from pain.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  And she said, do you might also be able to learn from joy?

• 48:43Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh my God.

• 48:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  I decided at that point at forty two years old that I was gonna experiment with that. That I was gonna try to see if if it's possible that we live in this beautiful universe that would, yes, allow us to learn from pain, but might even prefer if when we could, we would choose joy to learn from instead.

• 49:10Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Right?

• 49:11Jay Shetty?

  And it's kind of like that, like what you just said makes so much sense, like the the reason we have to suffer in pain is because we don't learn in joy, right? Like, that's that's exactly it, because I I I always feel like I always feel like pain makes us pay attention.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:28Jay Shetty?

  It's and and I I've seen this in in just being around children, at least, it's like your child just has to shout louder if you don't give your presence and attention earlier. And our bodies do that, our minds do that. It's almost like what what you were saying right at the beginning with the snow globe. It's like because we're shaking in a snow globe, we're so distracted. It's like only when you're still can you actually hear what your body's trying to tell you. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I've got this ache in my back. Right? It's like, well, like, I didn't realize that. I've been on like seven flights this month and, you know, I was running around and I was doing this and I was carrying people, whatever. And I didn't notice it. But now that I've just stopped for a second, and I feel like pain is just the signal, right? It's just a signal to be like your alarm gets louder

• 50:12Jay Shetty?

  when you don't go and turn it off. It's it's that. And and I feel so so many of us, you're so right. And it comes from not learning in joy, not being complacent in joy. But sometimes I feel that puts such a pressure for people, these people go, oh, my God, now I have to learn in joy. Like, like, it's like, can I not just enjoy it and experience it?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get that, too. I mean, first of all, if you can just be in joy and experience it, you should. I I have to also learn from it, because I'm a freaking writer.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  I'm jealous of all the people who just get to be in the joy. But, um, what I would say is that I am still myself with all my weirdness and things, issues. But I'm happier than I've ever been. I'm freer than I've ever been. And I've never been a better writer than I am now. I've never been clearer. I've never been more confident in my writing. I've never been more effective in activism. So I think that some of that I must suffer to create is probably not true. And, um, and I just, I think that there's necessary pain.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  And, and, and it's like, I've just categorized it for myself. Like, there's just pain that you just, you know, losing people or losing dreams or, you know, losing, losing. These are the things that are just, they're just the price you pay for being an open-hearted human being. Right? You're taking risks. Like, that kind of loss is just the price of love, right? And that is, I'm willing, forever, I'm willing to have that pain.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  But there's this other pain that is optional. And it's like, the pain that comes from not even trying for those things. Right? It's like, I see it in people. It's like, the pain in someone's eyes who's, who knows that she could do something that she's not doing. Or the pain in someone's eyes who's not bringing her full self to her relationship. So she's slowly dying because she's not telling the truth. Like, that kind of pain that comes from abandoning yourself is what I'm not gonna do anymore and worship that.

• 52:34Jay Shetty?

  That makes so much sense.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'll take the first kind, right?

• 52:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, that's so well said, so well said. You're, you're literally, I, I have to stop and just take a moment. Anyone who's listening or watching right now. I hope you're feeling the energy that I'm feeling and I don't know if Glenn is feeling it, but I'm feeling it, I'm gonna say, I am in love with this conversation right now because you're inspiring so much thought through everything you share. Like, I am deeply reflecting on everything you're saying and it is giving me so many revelations right now. And I mean that in the most honest and genuine way. So when I'm hearing you say that, what I'm hearing about it from a giving point of view and what you just said about you feel like you're the best writer, your best ability to give right now and you're saying, what I find is that we express well in three areas that are coming to my mind right now as well.

• 53:21Jay Shetty?

  One is the suffering, like, so what you said before, like, when you went through the suffering and you were able to tell that story, that was helpful and that was powerful, the musicians we spoke about. The second is the survivor, it's like, when you survive something, you tell that survival story. You're like, okay, now I got through it, I'm gonna help people. And then I kind of feel like you're at that level in the way that I see you helping people in the world is that you're a server, right? Because of your big heart and your sensitive soul that's just trying to serve and give and expand yourself in abundance to serve as many people as possible. And you're serving millions of people across the world. I feel like that's when you, well, I would love to check this with Elizabeth Gilbert too,

• 54:00Jay Shetty?

  but I guess that's what's giving you the highest sense of expression and creativity, is being of service, right? And it's like, it's like, those are all the levels. Like, we start as sufferers, then we become survivors when we survive our suffering, but then eventually we rise to being servers in society. And then you see the real joy. And I think that's what, at least I know the traditions I studied would suggest, that those who are living in service, having been through that, would find the ultimate expression and creativity because they'd be doing it for more than themselves. So I don't know what you think about that, I'm just, it's coming to my mind, so I'm sharing it.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  It's blowing my mind a little bit because, yes, that is correct. But even specifically, when you said serving, serving, when, you know, several weeks ago, I don't even know, Jay, maybe two years ago, whenever the

• 54:58Jay Shetty?

  So you're so right.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  That's it.

• 55:01Jay Shetty?

  I have no idea.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Um, we were, I was so focused on the book, Jay. I thought it was the most important thing in the world. And, you know, this is like the story that is in my heart since I was 10 years old. I was like, my whole team had been working on it for so long. It was so important, so important. And then I started the tour and two days into the tour, the Corona happened, all the things. We canceled the tour early. And I remember coming home and the whole team just, you know, all these people have been working so hard on this. And they said, what are we gonna do? And I said, the only thing I can think to do is that the world's about to be in a lot of pain and we're just gonna switch to service. Switch to service. We are out of promotion mode. We are switched to service. We're just gonna show up.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  And the great thing about this, Jay, is I think that, that when I came to life,

• 55:52Speaker 01

  was then. Like, you know, we go through creative cycles, right? And the, the pre, pre, the guy, the leading up to promoting something is so like,

• 56:05Speaker 01

  it's confusing, right? It's like, it's like you become an artist, so you make the thing.

• 56:13Speaker 01

  And then you've made the thing. But then you have to go be a commercial about the thing that you made. I already made the thing.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  I remember saying to my editor, like, do painters have to go out and paint about their paintings?

• 56:29Speaker 01

  I don't understand why I have to say words about the words that I wrote, you know? So it's just a little confusing. And then the switch to service mode, and we meant a lot of things by that. Like, I meant just freaking focus on Together Rising, just.

• 56:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  The, the, the stories, every, everyone's gonna need, everyone's gonna need. And we need to have all hands on deck there. But I also meant like, I'm just gonna start showing up every day. Without any um need for perfection or shininess or like just hi, here I am, here we are, let's hold space for each other.

• 57:09Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  And and all of that worry has gone away and it's kind of it's felt purer.

• 57:15Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 57:16Speaker 01

  So that it must be what you're talking about.

• 57:18Jay Shetty?

  I love that. No, that's that's amazing. And and I so I'm gonna do it for you. So anyone who's listening or watching right now, I want you to go and get the book. We're not finished yet, but I'm taking a quick commercial break to promote it because I cannot tell you. I mean, I've loved all your books, but this one's super special because and and I'm about to ask a question about it, but I I just can't tell you enough right now how I also think that this book is of service. In the sense that this book, even though you didn't write it for this right now, it is so useful right now. And and I think anyone and everyone who picks it up because because half of the things we're all dealing with right now, like you said, you wrote it for, you know, the ten year old, you know,

• 58:02Jay Shetty?

  the the story since you were ten and it's like, but but hey, that's the part of us that's struggling right now. It's the part of us at ten that was never trained to deal with anxiety. It was the part of us at ten that was always fearful. It was the part of us at ten that doesn't know how to deal with transition and change, right? It is that same child inside of us that is feeling the most affected right now.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 58:24Jay Shetty?

  And and I feel like that's the child you're talking to, like that's the person you're talking to. And so I I'm I'm doing it for you. I'm gonna say, yeah, everyone, we're gonna put the link afterwards everywhere. So make sure you go and grab a copy of this book and and order it because it is gonna be a beautiful companion and guide right now. And this is this is something I really want to talk to you about and I I love the title, but I wanted to talk to you about the difference between tamed and untamed language. And and what are some of those questions that are helpful in the process of being untamed? Because I think I think the biggest challenge, and you know this, and you talk about this, we don't even know that we're tamed. Like, we don't even know that we're in a prison. We don't even know that we're caged.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  Mr. President? My company told me of the explosion on our rig. On October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess, and Digger's gonna dig us up. From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 59:49Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You start, you freeze to death, that's what.

• 59:53Speaker 04

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 59:57Speaker 05

  I'm not the first then.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.

• 1:00:04Speaker 03

  Glimmer, the new eau de parfum by Estee Lauder. An amber floral fragrance with a gourmand twist with notes of macaron rose accord, amber embrace accord, and shimmering patchouli. A glimmer is a small, unexpected moment of joy that shifts your energy and how you feel. A scent to be felt, remembered, and shared. Discover more at estee lauder.com. What makes you glimmer?

• 1:00:32Jay Shetty?

  And so tell us about that language that helps us understand the difference between tamed and untamed language.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, um... So tamed language would be like when a woman says to me, "I am dying in my marriage, but I can't leave." Because, you know, good mothers don't break their children's hearts. Because I can't, because, you know, women should be grateful. Like, so words like can't, should, um, good and bad, right and wrong, like, these are all... I remember figuring this out when I was trying to decide what to do in my marriage, my first marriage. I was married to a good, good man, who's one of my best friends, and we are all go-parenting together. But we were struggling men. Like, we were just...

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  I was in a broken marriage to a good man. And that is a difficult place to be.

• 1:01:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Because you're supposed to be grateful and it's all supposed to be good enough, right? And then we went through some infidelity things. And afterwards, I was trying to figure out what to do. And I remember going to the internet for advice about what to do with my one wild and precious life, as a guru does, right? Yes. You check with the trolls and the bots to get what you want. And I remember reading all these articles. I've always been in this interesting Venn diagram, which is like in the religious world, right? And also squarely in the feminist world. This is a strange Venn diagram to be in.

• 1:02:06Jay Shetty?

  Yes, very much so.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  And I remember like reading all of these articles, right? From feminist thought leaders and Christian thought leaders. Each of them had exact opposite ideas about what the good thing to do, what the right thing to do, what a woman should do. And this is when I realized, oh, those words are not pure. These are, you know, good, what's good and bad, what's right and wrong, what you should do.

• 1:02:32Jay Shetty?

  Con and should.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  Those to do. Those are all like, um, they're like the sheep donks that keep the herd in order, right? They are not pure in any way. They're culturally constructed ideas, right? So, so one thing I love to do with people when they tell me all the things they can't do or should do, like going back to the marriage, um, the marriage example. So I might say to her, okay, forget all the cantonship right now. Can you tell me a story about the truest, most beautiful marriage you can imagine?

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Okay? Jay, there is something about, it's like when you ask what you should do or you're supposed to do, or what the good or the right thing is. It's like the mind activates, right? All of our cultural, all of our fear, all of our excuses, all of our whatever. And there's something about, what's the truest, most beautiful story? Where it bypasses all of that and it's like the heart opens and it's just like a story comes out. You know, it's like, it's like everybody's born, there's a purity to it.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  It's like, um, it's like everybody has a blueprint inside of them for what they were meant. Because I don't believe that there's one way to have a family, or one way to have a love, or one way to have a marriage, or one way to be a parent. I think that the norms are made by somebody, and we can all make our own.

• 1:04:02Jay Shetty?

  Agreed.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:04:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, massively, yeah, absolutely.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so there's something about what is the truest, most beautiful life? What is the truest, most beautiful marriage? What is the truest, most beautiful job you can imagine? What is the, you know, that kind of just quiets all the cans and is less scary? Um, and you start to realize, you know, I almost didn't follow the love of my life. Like, I, I get sweaty just thinking about it, but I almost abandoned myself again. Because, Jay, I was tamed to believe that a good mother does not hurt her children.

• 1:04:39Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  Right? And one day, I was braiding my little girl's hair, and I remember looking at her and thinking, "Oh, I am staying in this marriage for her."

• 1:04:52Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  But would I want this marriage for her?

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  And if I wouldn't want this marriage for her, then why am I modeling bad love and calling that good mothering?

• 1:05:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, wow.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Right? Which, which is, is, was one of the first experiences in realizing how tamed I was, because I know why I was doing that. Because I was tamed, which just means socially conditioned, okay? It just means socially programmed, obviously. But to believe that a good mother is a martyr.

• 1:05:26Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  That, that good mothering, Jay, is about just slowly dying and burying your dream and your ambition and your, your, um, emotions, just burying yourself and calling that love.

• 1:05:41Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  This is why, what a burden for all of us.

• 1:05:45Jay Shetty?

  What a burden.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  What a legacy to pass down to our kids, to, to teach them that love means to slowly disappear. Right? Instead of, of course, of course, love requires the beloved and the lover not to disappear, but to emerge fully.

• 1:06:01Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  It has to be one of the best definitions of that which requires us to emerge fully, you know? Um, and so that's when I realized, oh, that's my taming. Like, I'm spending my whole life trying to be good, but because I'm defaulting to the cultural definitions of good, I'm passing down terrible legacies to my kids.

• 1:06:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Not living truly to myself, or I'm, I'm, I'm caged and I'm caging my children.

• 1:06:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, cool, wow.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Right? Because if I teach them that the ultimate love is martyrdom, that is what they will try to be one day.

• 1:06:37Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Right? Because they, they, our children will only live as fully as we give ourselves permission to live.

• 1:06:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  So what I have come to believe about motherhood, because I really think untaming is really just, it's just digging up all of those roots that have been planted beneath us and examining them and replanting our own, right? Which is mother, motherhood for me now is just, it's, it has nothing to do with martyrdom and everything to do with being a model.

• 1:07:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  Right? Not settling for anything that is less true and beautiful than the relationship that I would want for my babies.

• 1:07:12Jay Shetty?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  We can say whatever we want, but they will be what we allow ourselves to be.

• 1:07:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  So that's, I mean, that, that's, it's like the language is, is a cage, right? We have to ask ourselves, what do we believe is good? And why do we believe that? Who taught us that? And who benefits from us believing that?

• 1:07:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. And whether it even sits with us, like whether it resonates with our heart or whether it connects with us. And you're so right, like, we don't even know where those, where that taming comes from half the time, or why we live that way. And hearing you say that, I mean, I love the way you describe it. I get the part where you're like, taming is social conditioning, but it's like, the way you express it is so, so powerful in the book and right now. Because, because that's, that's the part, right? Like, I think everyone with a bit of common sense would say, yeah, actually, I have a lot of like, conditioning from my childhood, or conditioning from school, or education, or society. But, but when you explain it in a marriage situation,

• 1:08:17Jay Shetty?

  and this is the thing, it's like, is it a job? Is it a marriage? What part of it in our lives are we still living in that way? Where it's, where we're seeing life as a sacrifice, as, as for your children, or for whatever. It's like, I'll stay in this because it's better for them. And, and like you said, like, just not wanting it for them. You know, how could you want it for yourself? Tell, tell me about how tough that is to translate that realization up here and here, actually, not up here, up here, down here, because you said, it's not a mental block, it's, it's of the heart and emotion. How hard is it to transition that from really feeling that in your heart, to then actually having that conversation with your partner? To having that actually go through with it? Like, tell us about that, because I think

• 1:09:01Jay Shetty?

  sometimes, and, and both are important, because it's only when it's really strong here, can you even let it out. And so for a lot of us, the first step is just, have you really understood it for yourself?

• 1:09:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:12Jay Shetty?

  Right?

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  That part takes like, in my, that takes about 12 years.

• 1:09:18Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  I mean, that takes a long freaking time to admit to yourself that you have a longing, that you have a discontent, that you have, because once you admit that, like, you could imagine more for yourself, then it's scary, because you might have to do something about it.

• 1:09:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Something requires all kinds of like, making other people uncomfortable, and like you were talking about in the beginning, having hard conversations. And, and for God's sake, it's not all about divorcing your husband and marrying a woman, which I highly recommend.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  But it's not like it's it's also about just saying hard things. Like I have so many friends who um you know, don't have the marriage they want right now, but they don't want a marriage with somebody else. They want they they just want to have be able to say the hard thing. So that they can create a true, more beautiful marriage with the same person.

• 1:10:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:10:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  But those conversations share so hard. I mean, the the I when I finally really and truly looked at myself in the mirror and realized, this is real. You are in love with Abby. This is the first time you've been in love in your your life. At that point, it didn't at all feel like a decision about whether or not to be in love with Abby. At that point, it felt so serious that it was like this is where I decide whether or not I trust myself.

• 1:10:42Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  Whether or not I abandoned myself, right? Um, as soon as I could, I talked to Craig about it. So the the one of the wild things about Abby and I's story is that we completely dismantled our lives to be with each other before we had ever been alone together. So this was all over the period of many months after we had only spent a couple hours together at a at an event, right? In public. Um, we fell in love through letters to each other. Um, so I told Craig first. We had been through so much together with the we worked so hard to heal to heal after the infidelity in my marriage. Um, and I thought we were working so hard so that we could be happily ever after together.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  But I think now in retrospect, we were working so hard that we could part without hating each other. Like we really forgave each other.

• 1:11:36Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  They got us why we're able to co-parent now. Then I had to tell the kids, which was the hardest conversation I've ever had in my life and was. I just don't even have any like shining wisdom about that. It was totally freaking brutal. I just, but I do remember saying, we have taught you to be true to yourself, even when it's hard and scary and even when it disappoints other people. And I'm about to do that to you right now.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  And it was as hard as it always is for kids to go through divorce. Their dad is freaking, the most loving dad in the world. I mean, so that was hard. But you know what was the hardest one? Oh, and I had to like come, by the way, Jay, I had to come, I announced to the world that I was getting divorced four weeks before my book about the redemption of my marriage came out.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  But I had to because my sobriety is the only thing that matters to me. And so my only rule for myself is that I have to be matching my outsides to my insides. I don't care if I'm doing the right thing. I don't care if I'm screwing up. All I care about is that I'm not living in shame because shame is what takes me out. And if I'm hiding anything, then I know I'm in shame and I can't do that. So I just told all the things. But the hardest one was telling my mom. It's so funny, Jay. I feel like people can be the most badass untamed people until they gotta call their mama.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  That's very true.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I was so terrified and

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  it's the most important, it was the most important process of my life.

• 1:13:24Speaker 01

  Walking through this with my parents and away from my parents because what happened, Jay, is that my mom was scared to death. And she brought me a lot of her fear.

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  My mom's my best friend and I have always trusted that my mom knows what's best for me. Okay, that was one of my taming, my taming.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:13:48Speaker 01

  My job to please my parents and that my parents know what's best for me. Okay? And so when I told my mom, she was very afraid and she brought a lot of that fear to me. And I could hear it in every question, you know, she would, how are the kids' parents, how are the kids' friends gonna act? How's the world gonna treat you? And Jay, I felt myself getting so defensive and anxious every time we talked, which is when I figured out that it's not the cruel criticism of people who hate us that shakes us. It's the loving concern of people who love us.

• 1:14:25Jay Shetty?

  Oh.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:14:27Jay Shetty?

  So true, so true.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so one day we were on the phone and she was just spinning and she was just worrying and calling that love, right? And I heard her say, your dad and I are coming to visit, we're gonna fly down and visit. And I heard myself say, no, you can't come. I said, Mom, you are still afraid and my kids are not afraid. We taught them that love in any form is to be celebrated and that it is always best just to be yourself and let the world catch up. So they're not carrying the fear you carry, but if you come here and bring it, they will see it in your eyes and they will help you carry it because they love and trust you. Yeah. So I have to tell you this hard thing, which is that your fear is not our problem.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  And it's my duty as their mother to make sure it never becomes their problem. So go deal with your problem. And when you are able to come here to this island of our family with nothing but celebration and respect, we will lower the drawbridge for you, but not one second sooner. And that is the moment I became an adult.

• 1:15:40Jay Shetty?

  That's a tough conversation, that's an extremely tough conversation.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  But it was, but it was the moment where I realized that we become responsible, it goes back to the beginning of your conversation, your question you asked me, that we become responsible adults when we stop being obedient children.

• 1:15:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Right? When we, when we realize that the best way to honor our parents is to trust fully the people they raised.

• 1:16:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And, and to take responsibility for our lives and not live them in a repeated pattern of pain.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  So that why, so that when we're sixty, we can say, I would have had a good life, but my mom would let.

• 1:16:20Jay Shetty?

  Exactly, that's literally it. That's literally it. That's exactly it. And everyone has their own version of that story. Whether it's your mom, or your dad, or your school, or your teacher, or your boss, or whoever it is.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  The fascinating person you're asking for permission from, right? And the amazing thing is, is when you stop asking for permission, and you live your life, people either come around, or they stop coming around. Either way, lovely.

• 1:16:49Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's a risk worth taking to have that conversation, and then also, hope that you keep the door open enough that there is a chance to mend it. Like, there is a chance for that to allow that person back into your life. I think that's what we all want. What we all want is just, and, and I think that's, we all want people to instantly love our decisions.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Jay Shetty?

  The moment we make them. We like, you know, we want like, as soon as I tell this person, and that's why we only tell them about our good decisions. Or our good decisions, again, going back to what you said, good and bad, there is none, it's socially constructed, but we go, oh yeah, if I've got a, if I'm, if I'm really proud of one of my decisions, I'm gonna tell them. If I'm somewhat ashamed, and first of all, why am I ashamed of this? But it's that shame and guilt that stops us from wanting to say that to them.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:17:42Jay Shetty?

  And, and what you said there, I love that question that you asked. You were like, well, what is the most truest form of marriage? Like, what is the most, you know, that story version, as you were saying, not what's the right marriage, or the best marriage, but what is the truest, most, you know, authentic form of marriage, or love, or relationship? And, and the first thing that came to my mind when you asked that question was, I was like, honesty just stood out as like a big thing, and I think, I think the truth is, we all say we want honest relationships, but we don't afford ourselves to hear honestly, or speak honestly enough. So if you ask anyone, you know, a man or woman, or, you know, any, any situation in any partnership, the response would be, I would want my partner to be honest. I think that would be up there in the top five things that you'd want in your partner.

• 1:18:26Jay Shetty?

  But if your partner honestly tells you, I don't think we should be together anymore. Well, I don't wanna hear that. No one wants to hear that. And so it's like, well, then we don't really want honesty. And we, and again, we don't want honesty because we're not scared of sharing it either. So we're not, we're not giving it or receiving it well. And so it becomes such an invisible value or an invisible quality because it's, it's, it sounds good and feels like it should feel good, but actually it really hurts.

• 1:18:54Speaker 01

  It really hurts. It really hurts. I mean, one thing I do know is that at our deepest self, even though we're afraid, we don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with us. So, so I feel that even though it needs to come with all kinds of love, that honesty has to always be the right thing, even when it's the hard thing. Like Craig will tell you now that it was excruciating when I told him that, that I was leaving. But we have realized at this point that like, the, the truth of the way that things work is that there's no such thing as one-way liberation.

• 1:19:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  Right? That if, if, if one person i- is not, doesn't belong there, then you don't belong there either, right?

• 1:19:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  And, and I mean, and I also believe that in terms of what we were talking about with the families, like our people, we want them to be so excited about our, our decisions right away. And, and Jay, that, when you said that, I'm like, that resonates with me. Like, if, if I tell you something, I need you to be excited now.

• 1:19:59Jay Shetty?

  Now.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  And if you're not, it's a betrayal.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  You're betrayed. So that is for sure. But, but what I think people really, in most relationships that are even semi-healthy, the other person really just wants us to be okay, right? My mom, all of that fear that she had, it was right next to love, right? Like she, she just really wanted me to be okay.

• 1:20:25Jay Shetty?

  Hmm hmm.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:20:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  She wanted me to be okay. She wanted the babies to be okay. She wants everyone to be okay. And the thing that I've realized is that the only way that we can prove to other people that we are, are okay is to just go about being okay.

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Right, we can't justify our okayness, or exonerate our okayness.

• 1:20:45Jay Shetty?

  Oh, so good, so good, yeah.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Just, here's why we're okay, and here's why it's okay, and here's why I get to do this, and I'm a grown woman, and but like, really, over time, what my mom realized was, oh my god, my little girl is more okay than she's ever been in her life. And one of the reasons I know that is because she's not justifying it to anybody anymore.

• 1:21:07Jay Shetty?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  And, and, and I've been lucky enough, you know, that, that we were, she did come to us with no fear in her hands anymore. And, you know, at this point, I can say with all honesty, that Abby's her favorite of all of her daughters.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Right? And the first thing she said to Abby when Abby told her that, um, she, Abby was gonna propose, is my mom said, Abby, I have not seen my daughter this alive since she was ten years old.

• 1:21:35Jay Shetty?

  Wow.

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Which is so wild to me, Jay, because ten is when I disappeared, right? I mean, I still get goosebumps, which is, what does that mean? Like, what does it mean that I disappeared when I was ten and something about returning to myself at forty-two, that my mom could see me alive again?

• 1:21:53Jay Shetty?

  That's incredible. That, that, that statement is so powerful, especially because you see ten as so formative, as, as a change.

• 1:21:59Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah. Yeah, I don't know if it's ten, but it's like eight to twelve.

• 1:22:04Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Plus, that that's when we start to really get it, when we start to really internalize these ideas of like, oh, this is how I'm a good girl, this is how I'm a good Christian, this is how I'm a, I'm a Doyle, I'm a American, I'm a whatever it is. And, uh, when our cages start to form.

• 1:22:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. Wow, Glenn, you're, you're incredible. I mean, it's, this, this conversation has been genuinely, I am, and I, and I mean this from the sincerest place in my heart, has been so revelatory for me, just from all I'm doing. And, and I really recommend anyone who's been listening or watching this episode, go back and listen to it again. And every time Glenn gives a key piece of advice, ask that question to yourself, because that's what I'm doing. When I'm listening to you, I'm, I'm, I'm putting myself in your shoes, I'm walking through that phase, I'm asking the questions that you're sharing, I'm, I'm reflecting on my life and where those, and, and just from listening to you and having this conversation with you, I've gained so much. Clarity and kind of like feel like a lot of, you know,

• 1:23:03Jay Shetty?

  a lot of openings have been made just from listening to you speak and having this conversation with you. So I want everyone to have that experience who's listening right now. And, and I just, I genuinely want to say, I really believe that anyone who reads your work right now is going to get the best writing they possibly can in this creative expression of just getting, if you know, and I think all of us know it at the deepest core of ourselves that our inner child has been neglected, we walked away from who we truly were, we disconnected, we've got lost, we've been conditioned, whatever you want to call it, we've been tamed. And it's, if you, if you feel that you need to do some of that work and you want to guide and a companion, then, then please go and grab this book.

• 1:23:48Jay Shetty?

  Uh, it will, it will gently, but powerfully guide you through the steps that you need to take. And I love that balance you have, and when I'm hearing you speak, it's like, it's gentle, you're very loving, but at the same time, it's powerful and it's, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's got a lot of strength to it. So thank you for doing what you do. I mean, this is amazing. So I'm going to end with two segments that we do at the end of every interview. It's called fill in the blanks and then the final five. So this is kind of like a rapid fire, quick fire. And I'm going to ask you to answer the next few questions in one word to one, like five words maximum. Uh, so fill in the blanks is I read out a sentence and you fill in the end of the sentence. So if you want to be a great writer.

• 1:24:31Speaker 01

  Write.

• 1:24:33Jay Shetty?

  Good. The secret, the secret to connecting with your community is?

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  Truth telling.

• 1:24:41Jay Shetty?

  Being untamed doesn't mean?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Danger.

• 1:24:47Jay Shetty?

  What impresses me the most about humans is their ability to?

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  Forgive.

• 1:24:54Jay Shetty?

  I always say no to.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  Jogging.

• 1:25:03Jay Shetty?

  I love it. Great. I love it. Art is never.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Fake.

• 1:25:10Jay Shetty?

  Sobriety starts with.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Stillness.

• 1:25:14Jay Shetty?

  I knew I was in love with Abby when.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  I saw her.

• 1:25:18Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. I love it. Okay, these are your final five. So same, you were brilliant. By the way, I don't think anyone's ever done that that well. Like, that's amazing. We've been, we've been having this long conversation. But okay, so these are your final five. Same thing. One word, maximum five words ideally. You're the only one who's ever followed it, so I'm, I'm very impressed right now. Okay. What did you, you, what have you been chasing previously, previously in life that you no longer pursue?

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Perfection.

• 1:25:43Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. What's one thing you once felt shame and guilt over that you are now proud of?

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Hmm, alcoholism, recovery.

• 1:25:52Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely. Great question. What was your biggest lesson from the last 12 months?

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  Surrender.

• 1:26:00Jay Shetty?

  The one thing, the one quality that you want to give your children, uh, that you'd wish for them to aspire to develop and create?

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  Courage.

• 1:26:11Jay Shetty?

  Beautiful. And your fifth and final question, if you could create a law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  Well, be kind and be brave.

• 1:26:24Jay Shetty?

  It's beautiful. I love it. I'm gonna, I wanted to share a passage from your book that I think would help people. So it's, I, I'm just gonna share this, uh, from Untamed. It says, "My emotions, my intuition, my imagination, my courage, those are the keys to freedom. Those are who we are. Will we be brave enough to unlock ourselves? Will we be brave enough to set ourselves free? We will finally step out of our cages and say to ourselves, to our people and to the world, here I am."

• 1:27:00Jay Shetty?

  Thank you Glennon for such an incredible conversation. You've made my week. This is by far one of my favorite conversations I've ever had on the podcast. I do not say that every time. And that's not because I don't have incredible guests. I do, but this was just, it just felt, I don't know, there's, there's, there's something really special about this. I'm really excited to meet in person and give you a big hug when we can.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  I can't wait. I've been wondering why we haven't met before and it feels like it was because we needed to have this conversation at this time.

• 1:27:30Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, for sure. But no, I hope that was, I hope that was useful for you and I hope it was a good use of your time. I know that your time is so valuable and precious, so I really genuinely appreciate it. And yeah, thank you. I got so much personally from that conversation and I know my audience will absolutely love it.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Me too. It was my favorite part of the week.

• 1:28:10Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:28:39Speaker 04

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me. Tom Cruise is. Digger got us into this mess and Digger's gonna dig us out. From the director of Birdman and The Ravenet.

• 1:28:56Speaker 05

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You're stalled, you're freezing there, that's what.

• 1:29:00Speaker 04

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:29:03Speaker 05

  I'm not the first nanny.

• 1:29:04Speaker 04

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17.