Bruce Daisley ON: How To Effectively Work From Home & Protect Your Personal Life During COVID-19

How do you stay productive at home? Jay Shetty & Bruce Daisley, former Twitter senior executive and founder of the Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat podcast, sit down to talk about how to navigate the work at home experience. Managing the interruptions, communication difficulties, and lack of structure can be difficult. You'll learn all of Daisley’s best tips on the most productive, effective, and thoughtful ways to work from home during Covid-19. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:44Jay Shetty?

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• 1:29Jay Shetty?

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• 2:16Jay Shetty?

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• 3:00Jay Shetty?

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• 3:09Speaker 01

  When you're thinking about whole body wellness and people feeling like they're in a good place, you're immediately transplanting them into a suboptimal situation where they're not working in at a standing desk with beautiful sunlight cascading onto them, but rather more, they're trying to make do with being on a bed that all of a sudden seems completely unsuited for the task.

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come every week to listen, to learn, and to grow. Now, I know that we've been focusing our Friday episodes on supporting you and helping you during the pandemic. And I've been reaching out to experts and thought leaders who can really give you the most practical tools right now that can make a change in your daily life. We're all spending time indoors, and that's a good thing. Stay safe, stay at home, you know, protect your healthcare systems wherever you are in the world listening. But how do we work from home? So many of us for the first time are working from home. How do we stay productive at home? How do we stay creative at home?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And how do we deal with all of the uncertainty in our workplace? With colleagues, with meetings, with Zoom calls crashing and all the rest of it. Today's guest is going to help us figure out the most productive, effective and thoughtful ways to work from home. His name is Bruce Daisley and he was previously Twitter's most senior employee outside the United States in his role of Vice President across Europe, Middle East and Africa. He joined the company in 2012, having previously run YouTube UK at Google. He has also worked in the magazine publishing and radio industries, having got his first break by mailing a cartoon resume of his life to prospective employers. I can't wait to ask him about that.

• 5:02Speaker 02

  Bruce's passion for improving work led to him creating the podcast Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat on Making Work Better. It became a number one smash it in the UK, also hitting the top 10 in the US. So make sure you go check out Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat podcast as well. So excited to have Bruce on the show. Bruce, thank you for doing this.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Oh, great to talk to you, man. Great, great. Strange times, but lovely to get the chance to chat.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's interesting how all these strange times sometimes help you connect with people that you've either wanted to connect with for a while or you didn't know before. I just want to check in to make sure your family's good, everyone's healthy and safe. And where are you at the moment?

• 5:40Speaker 01

  I, I'm in London, so.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, all is good. I mean, it's strange, isn't it? How, I think we've all known some of the ways that we can connect with each other electronically, there's some of the ways that we can, we can do things. But I saw someone saying last week that'd been 10 years worth of change in four weeks. And that's definitely the case. I was in the, uh, I was in the, the doctor's surgery about something routine today and they told me that really quickly transitions to video consultations. And I think that would only have gradually changed over the next few years. I suspect a lot of that won't ever change back now. So it's just fascinating how some good stuff has come from this extraordinary disruption that we're seeing. That's a really interesting point, actually. Yeah, I didn't think about it like that. You're, you're actually saying that because so much more of our communication has become

• 6:27Speaker 02

  digital at this time, a lot of it you don't actually see going back. Which are the industries that you think have had the most impact of that happening and rapidly happening?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Well, I think you're gonna, there's a lot of change. I mean, look, you know, medical, medical consultations is one of them. And if you've ever gone, you know, with whatever healthcare system you go to, but you know, quite often the doctor's over-scheduled, or you find that you've been waited for a long time, and then you only see him for a few moments. But actually, if you allowed people to, to consult by video, they probably can give more time, they can do it from where they are. So, so look, massive opportunity there. I think, you know, a lot of workplaces are finding that some of the ways that they did work, now when they do them electronically, just don't make sense. So, the stat that always blows me away is, the average American worker, and I think it's the same for everywhere

• 7:20Speaker 01

  around the world, spends 16 hours a week in meetings. Now, that's

• 7:24Speaker 02

  16?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  I know, 16.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  Oh, 16, 1-6.

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, 1-6. So, two days a week in meetings. But when you transplant it to sort of like a Netflix style, you're watching it on your laptop, suddenly, 16 hours a week seems never-ending. It feels like, I can't deal with this. So, I think a lot of organisations are probably starting to wonder, was the way that we were doing things, ready for a bit of change?

• 7:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And, and today, I really want to talk a lot about that, because I know you've got such great insight. And I love the fact that you have so much research and data in the book as well. And, and I'm a big fan of, of research and human behaviour and seeing how we interact. But, tell us about, you know, for a lot of people, it's, it's interesting, we've always, I feel like a lot of people for a long time have said things like, I wish I could work from home. I, I wish I had that flexibility. But then, when it gets forced upon us in this way, and then you don't have that freedom, tell me about some of the challenges you're seeing people talk about right now, about working from home, that companies and employers are facing, but also individuals are facing as well.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think Jay, one of the big things is that people who can plan to work from home, people who can build their life around working from home have a very different experience than people who find that all of a sudden they're transplanted to having to work from home. So you said you used to live in New York. You can imagine if you're a twenty something, a thirty something, maybe even, you know, later in life, and you're suddenly told you have to work from home, you've probably got a couple of options. One, which is the couch, the sofa, one which is maybe sitting on your bed. You possibly don't have like a desk. And so immediately, you're actually, when you're thinking about wellness, when you're thinking about whole body wellness,

• 9:13Speaker 01

  and people feeling like they're in a good place, you're immediately transplanting them into a a suboptimal situation where they're not working in at a standing desk with beautiful sunlight cascading onto them, but rather more they're trying to make do with being on a bed that all of a sudden seems completely unsuited for the task. So I think that's one of the challenges, you know. One of the the critical things right now is that a lot of us have talked about working from home. A lot of us have talked about how remote working might transform things. And of course, what we're not doing right now is we're not doing a global experiment for remote working, because almost every company is going to have its worst year in a decade. It's going to have

• 9:58Speaker 01

  really bad success. Anyone looking at the results of these will say it was an unmitigated disaster. So the challenge for all of us is to say, in this really sort of suboptimal experience, what were the good bits that we learned from it? I chatted to someone yesterday, and they said, they said, our rule is now, meetings are no more than thirty minutes. You feel free to put a block of time in your calendar, where if you've got homeschooling responsibilities, if you've got kids that need just feeding, that you're not also anxious that your video calls are going on. So I think a lot of us are realising this is all about just about making

• 10:39Speaker 01

  do with what's going on, rather than this is the dream future. But I think the critical thing we're all going to discover is be careful what you wish for. Because you know, the idea of homeworking initially to a lot of us sounds like freeing, it sounds liberating. But if you look into the research for people who work from home, generally, they are significantly more stressed than people who work from offices. And the reason why is that all of the little gentle social cues that we give, and it might be your boss smiling at you by the elevators, or it might be a colleague saying, hey, how's your weekend? All those gentle things, when they're taken away from us, they start changing our experience, they start transforming our experience.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Even the introverts amongst us, we're far more reliant on being charged up by those social interactions than we would ever admit. And so when you put someone, you transplant them to working, sitting on their bed in a big built-up city somewhere, immediately, the first thing that can suffer is people's wellbeing. And actually, it can, it can end up being a journey into something that certainly doesn't feel like an improvement from where we were.

• 11:58Jay Shetty?

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• 13:02Speaker 02

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• 13:37Jay Shetty?

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• 14:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, that's really well said. You've shared so many interesting insights there because I couldn't agree with you more, you know. I really feel that for a lot of people, working from home is definitely more stressful. And I'm glad that companies and teams are figuring out how you may have a 2 to 4 p.m. block in your day, which is homeschooling your kids or feeding or putting them to bed at a certain time or different time zones. Tell me about some of the ways you mentioned there, a couple of things which I think stood out. Like you were saying, like talking to your colleague about, hey, what you've got planned for the weekend? Or speaking to your boss and then, you know, like you said, smiling at you, whatever it may be. What are some of the ways that we can actually connect more humanly right now with our colleagues? Because I almost feel like when conversations become purely email.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Or purely audio or purely distracted calls, you start noticing that people also disconnect more.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  They do.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so what are you and you also feel like when you're talking to one of these, I mean, this is just me and you. It's a podcast and we're both engaged and you know what you're turning up for and I know what I'm turning up for. But if you think about it, a lot of meetings, when you're on Zoom, it's so easy for people to like disengage. And you don't know if they're listening and then the connection's bad. What is a good way that people can right now build stronger human connection with their colleagues and with people in their workplace?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  So I'm going to go one step back and I'm going to give you a little bit of evidence. Because this evidence, I think, is fascinating for then how we answer that question.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  There's a really inspiring guy at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT, a guy called Sandy Pentland, Alex Pentland. And he was interested, I guess to some extent, in the secret life of the office. If you've ever seen kids play a game of The Sims, he wanted to watch workplaces like a game of The Sims. Who's talking to who? Who's walking over? What emotions happened? So he did this really interesting experiment when when we were all in offices, he put badges on people. And he said, right here, he didn't even know what he wanted to track, but he just wanted to see whether he could measure it. Like sometimes you walk into a bar and there's a sports game on and they have like a heat map of where the players have been on the field. He wanted to do that a heat map of what was happening in the workplace.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Anyway, he started watching very quickly. He said, oh, wow, I'm starting to learn. What goes on and what actually contributes to a creative workplace? What contributes to a productive workplace? Here's the strange thing he found. He found that emails account for about 2% of what gets done in offices. Meetings, meetings account for about 3%. So that's when you're in the room with people, meetings are 3%. Face to face conversation accounted for about 37%. He said, I can look at this heat map of an office and I can tell you if this is a creative office. By our people going over, Bruce going over to Jay's desk and sort of saying, hey, I've got a sort of slight idea and you wince. And you sort of, I'm not sure.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Be careful before you take that to the big boss. And immediately, I think, okay, okay, okay, it's not perfect. Right, but so what we learn about that is that even though if you did a spreadsheet of what creates value at work, probably face-to-face conversation wouldn't even go on your list. But you realise that it's actually, it's often the conversations by the coffee machine. It's the conversation while you're just getting some, some copies made. And you say to someone, hey, did you read that report? Did you read that email? What did you think of that idea? And normally, those little bits of chit-chat, or it might be, did you watch that show on Netflix? Those bits of chit-chat turn into conversations about work. So then to transplant it to where we are now,

• 17:47Speaker 01

  you realise that this sort of this dark matter of work, which is all of the social interactions between us. And if you transplant to a world where we're all sitting on a Zoom call and, you know, our inbox is looking so big that we think, you know, while I'm on this Zoom call, I'm just going to clear my inbox. And immediately, it's a bit like when you're, when you're sitting on the sofa and the Netflix show's playing and your partner or someone in the, in the house says to you, you know, Judy, do you even know what's going on? And you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, and you don't, you don't know any of it. You don't have a clue, yeah. And, and work's become like that. And immediately, we find ourselves feeling like it's just getting too much for us. We're not feeling connected.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  The fascinating thing is that it seems that when we can forge these social links between us, and especially now, when they don't casually happen, the, the person on the desk next to you isn't going to ask you about your weekend. And so when those social things have gone, we need to try and find a way to bring them back. There was one piece of research I was really charmed by, which was, you might think it's unrelated, but it was looking at, um, in the old world, in life before this, it was looking at couples who'd had distant relationships. So this was, you know, the, one of them's living in Chicago, the other one's living in New York. How do they sustain this? They looked at 40,000 couples who'd done the distance thing. And they tried to work out the ones who'd stayed together for 12 months.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  So these were unmarried couples. The couples who stayed together for 12 months were the ones who phoned each other, old technology, analogue. They phoned each other every day to talk about trivial things. They phoned to talk about the cat, they phoned to talk about the weather. And what what you discover is that even though we could never truly put a value to that, it seems to have this really powerful spiritual human connection to it. So then you're sitting there thinking, so what can we do right now in this strange situation to do that? I saw, I've been really interested just watching people's social posts about what works. And, you know, we've seen a lot of people using house party or Zooms to get together.

• 19:59Speaker 01

  I saw someone who works at the Huffington Post, Huff Post. And she said, you know, we probably, we probably feel embarrassed to admit it. But our favourite thing is we have a meeting at 11am on Monday morning where we get together and all with a coffee and we talk about the TV we watched over the weekend. Right, that's really interesting because all of us, so often we can find ourselves thinking, I need to be more productive. I'm failing unless I'm squeezing the last bit of productivity out of life. And what you miss in the gaps between that is you miss those moments of sort of nourishment that we get from other people. So I think, I think, you know, I would say, learning the evidence of along the way there,

• 20:44Speaker 01

  thinking about how we can get more human connection. You know, I I used to work in a technology job and one of the things I was always asked is, what do you think the future of work is? And I always said, you know, I don't think the future of work is, we're going to find the answer in technology, the answer's in humanity. How can we make us feel that technology has enhanced our experience of work? We feel more connected, we feel more creative, we feel like we're getting more done. And and those things are all about sort of humanity, far more than technology, I find.

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• 22:53Speaker 02

  I think you're spot on. I feel exactly the same way, having worked at Accenture as well. And like, you know, my whole world was digital strategy and innovation and constantly looking at AI and AR and how that was going to change the workplace. And I feel exactly the same way as you, that it's all about the human connection. And I think you're so right that... We need that moment of being able, before we become productive or get into the workday, to have that moment just to decompress and just to kind of exchange a few, you know, I mean, even just us, before we started this podcast, you know, it was nice to connect of, you know, where I grew up and mutual friends we have and, you know, stuff like that just

• 23:37Speaker 02

  helps break the ice. And we almost need it even with people weekly, even if we know those people and we see those people. And it's so easy to try and save that extra five minutes of productivity. But that extra five minutes of productivity costs you five days of, you know, relationships and getting things done well.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Very much so. I saw this fascinating piece of research, and this was done by some researchers at Oxford University. And it was, it was trying to work out the effects that we have on each other. So what they did is the researchers got a group of rowers, right? So these, you've seen them at the Olympics, or six foot, you know, very athletic. They got a group of rowers and they put six of them individually on rowing machines, told them that they had to row for 10 minutes. They got a separate group and they put them on rowing machines, but they instructed them, they're familiar with this, you have to row like you're on a boat, you've got to be in sync with each other. So you've got to be, you've got to be feeling like empathizing with the people around you. Then

• 24:35Speaker 01

  they did, they got them to exercise for 10 minutes. Now, routinely, the amount of energy they burnt was about the same. But then they measured the endorphins, the pleasure hormones in these rowers bodies. And they do this by, they put an armband on them and they measure the endorphins. The ones who felt connected to each other, even though they'd all done the same amount of exercise, had twice the endorphin levels of the ones who didn't. And the strange thing about that is you sort of see that and you think, oh, that's fascinating. Where else could we observe it? Well, anyone who's ever sung in a choir, endorphins, you know, the fact that you're doing something synchronized with other people, endorphins come. Anyone who's danced with each other will find endorphins. You like, people say, all I did all night was dance. And like my, my energy levels,

• 25:20Speaker 01

  I was just oozing it. When people go to a comedy show, if you laugh, if you laugh, you'll often find yourself talking to strangers coming out. Why? Because the endorphin levels are through the roof. And then you start thinking, okay, so look, the average day probably isn't going to start with a song or a dance or a comedy routine. But where else do these endorphin levels get triggered? And they get triggered when we chat face to face with people. Our endorphin levels go up. If we're in a group, a smaller group and we laugh, our endorphin levels going up. And I think that connection to other people, actually, it's a really important part of us feeling like we matter, like, you know, the things we do are having an impact on the people around us.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, those are great ideas. And that's why I think finding the best way to have those virtual workouts or virtual movie nights or virtual dinner dates with friends right now, it's just so needed, especially with colleagues as well. Because I think it's so easy to think like, oh yeah, I work with my colleagues. And so we just talk about work stuff. But then when you think about the office, you're like, oh no, actually, we used to talk about the football.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  We talked about the TV or we used to talk about, you know, whatever it may be, the latest thing in the news. And we've stopped doing that. And also we forget that right now we may be doing that, but a lot of that conversation may be negative. So we're used to talking about the football or we're used to talking about the best TV. But now we're talking about the news or we're talking about COVID or we're talking about, we're now talking about the stuff that doesn't necessarily boost you or enhance you. You talk about stuff that kind of stresses you out a bit more. It's important to still have those social conversations at work, which we're very used to.

• 27:01Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. I mean, there's a really interesting thing. When you look, I mentioned before that when workers work remotely, their stress levels are higher. And one of the ways that you can get around that is making sure that maybe you don't jump straight into the meeting content immediately. You know, your instinct might be that the moment that everyone's on the call, you cut all chat down and you jump straight in. But, you know, more than ever before, those moments where we turn and we say to everyone, hey, how's everyone doing in your office or, you know, in your city? How's everyone doing? How are you coping? You know, and those moments of sort of group connection, but also individual connection.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  If you're a leader right now, if you're, if you're a partner, if you're anyone picking up the phone and, you know, spontaneously or even just, you know, putting a FaceTime in, but spontaneously checking in with someone who is important and probably would feel valued by you is an incredible act of altruistic leadership right now.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  I I love that and it's so true. I think picking up the phone to someone or FaceTiming them directly, not through a Zoom call or a Zoom link. It's weird because it could be the same thing.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  But when you, when someone feels that they, you've called them from your phone.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:20Speaker 02

  And you're FaceTiming them, that feels so much more personal when it's not through a laptop or it's not through a work screen or a WebEx or any of those things because.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, come on, come on.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  And there's probably people right now saying, hey, I don't want a call out of the blue. You know, I haven't put clothes on for a week and a half. I haven't washed my face. Absolutely. Send it, send an SMS, send a text first saying.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Saying you're okay for a quick call and look at, and so it might not be a video call. You end up with just a phone call, but you're making sure that people's anxiety levels don't peak. But absolutely that moment where almost all you talk about is, hey, I'm going to phone you. Can you recommend me something to watch on TV?

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  And immediately you've, you've not going into the whole COVID, the whole, you know, the, the sort of getting groceries, you're not going into the, the logistics, but you're in a moment where you're just riffing about a great movie to watch.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think that's what it is. It's asking people, it's, it's also the questions we ask when we start our calls. I think, like you said, moving that conversation in a natural way of like, oh, what's the best movie you've seen? Or what's the best show you've been watching or, or, you know, what's the best thing you've done with the kids? Or it's, it's the solution oriented conversation or the entertainment oriented conversation that I think helps. And people, whenever they ask me that, I, I feel like I was late to it. But I watched, uh, recently, the movie came out in like 2013 or 2014, but I've been trying to find movies for me and my wife to watch. And I found this movie called Saving Mr. Banks with Tony Hanks, uh, Tom Hanks. Tony Hanks, Tom Hanks. And it, I don't know if you've seen it. It's, it's so, it's brilliant. Like it's become one of my favorite movies that I've discovered.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  And I talk about it all the time and it's, you're so right. As soon as you talk about something that you've enjoyed. That also boosts your mood. And I think that's so important that, you know, finding something to talk about that makes you smile. That makes you gain best energy.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  And look, and I couldn't agree more. And right now, it's very easy for any of us to feel, you know, the whole of life is is filled with guilt. And we might end up sitting there thinking, I feel guilty that I've not read that great novel that I was meant to read. I feel guilty that I've not learnt that language. And right now, I don't think we need to add any more guilt, any more burden to us. But if you can fill it with a bit of joy, you know what? I loved that movie as a kid. I'm going to introduce my housemate, my, you know, someone with me to that movie. Then I think it's probably a good time now, like you say there, to be reminded with things that just made us, simply made us happy.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. Tell me about one of, I, I think one of the biggest challenges that people feel working from home is that there, there's no barrier now between their work and their personal life. So they're in the same space, they're eating lunch while they work, they're uh sitting at the same couch, like you said, all day long, all of those types of experiences. And now you're still reading emails at nine P M. Because you kind of feel like you have nothing else to do, or you haven't seen the difference. What are good ways that people can separate their personal and their work life, if that's the right way of looking at it? Or what's the best way to navigate that whole challenge?

• 31:28Speaker 01

  Look, so I mean, you know, I think one of the most important things that any of us can do right now is, is try and think about our headspace and then have a dialogue with our managers. Because, you know, the person we report into, and you know, the truth about work is that there sometimes is a line manager lottery, that sometimes we work with really understanding empathetic people, sometimes not so much. And so just, you know, understanding where your, your manager's line set, mindset is at, is really critical. Why? Because, look, the situation we're in right now, maybe the best thing for your mental health is if you're still allowed to to go outside, you go outside when the sun is shining on your face.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  And you can actually be filled with the glow of optimism that sometimes comes with a bit of nature. And of course, you know, if your boss is saying, I want you at the computer at nine and then, you know, clocking off at six, but then available afterwards, we're going to miss the glory of nature and nature can be, you know, sometimes they call it vitamin N, it can have this sort of magical quality of making us feel like things are going to be okay, that, that, you know, we, we can cope with situations. So I think the first thing that I would say for anyone is try and work out how you're going to get some balance into the way things are. And if your manager understands that, then all the better that you could say, hey, just so you know,

• 32:54Speaker 01

  I'm going to be, I'm going to be doing my full hours, but I'm going to be taking a break from 12 till two, so I can, you know, get some fresh air, so I can feed whoever I need to feed, but then I'm going to be back, back on it and go do my full work. I think, you know, as you say there, the dream that we're told really resolutely is draw a division, draw a line between working and not working. And I think more than ever before, that's, that's really important. If we can get some escape, and whether it's entertainment or music or whatever it is, if you can get some escape from work, then it can make the whole of the situation we're in right now feel less claustrophobic.

• 33:36Speaker 01

  So I think more than ever, don't be held to the rigidity of, I need to be at my desk from all this time. If you get the opportunity to build some, some relaxation, some, some rest into that, it's going to, it's going to, number one, it's going to make your work better. And number two, you're going to leave this unique situation. The better for it, stronger for it.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I agree with you and I know that two things that really helped me, like one of the best ones for me and this really truly, it doesn't matter how big your apartment or your home is, I I used to live in a six hundred square foot apartment in New York, which is, it's very small for two people and and in that apartment, I was able to find different spaces for different things, it could literally be a corner and so I really believe that it's important to have a lunch space, like where you go and you eat your lunch calmly, it will only take ten by the way, if you eat your lunch and that's all you do, it will take ten minutes. And so when you're trying to eat your lunch while you're reading an email and trying to type at the same time, guess what, you're not digesting properly, you're not reading that email properly and you're not being efficient or productive. So I really believe in having a space to eat, it could be a breakfast bar table, whatever you have.

• 34:47Speaker 02

  I really believe in having a space to work, it could be the edge of the same table, it could be a corner of your home. I really believe in having a place for entertainment, even if you're in a studio apartment, it's still important to kind of create zones and spaces because your mind gets used to that, there's a reason why your mind can't, you know, and this is what I find, a lot of people say to me like when they can't sleep and I say, well, what else are you doing in your bedroom? And they're like, oh, well, I eat my dinner in my bedroom and I watch TV in my bedroom and I'm like well, that's why you can't sleep in your bedroom, because your whole bedroom is charged with that energy of being stimulated. Whereas when you only sleep in your bedroom, it helps you fall asleep when you

• 35:26Speaker 02

  where like when sometimes people say like, oh, well, I can't sleep at night and so what do you wear? Well, I'm just wearing the clothes I wore all day or I wore the clothes I wore to the gym. That's the same clothes that you did activity in, it's harder to sleep putting on, there's a reason why we have pajamas or a pair of shorts or whatever it may be that you put on when you go to sleep because it feels like a sleep uniform, it helps you disconnect from the day, taking off that feeling. So I really recommend people to find zones in their home and and feeling like even if it is just your upper half, getting dressed for work and then taking off your work clothes, there's a reason why we've been doing that for so many years, we know when you take the jacket off, when you get off at the end of the day that work is over, it's so important to keep those habits moving, even if you're in the same space.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  You hit on something really critical there as well. You you mentioned sort of, you know, zoning your activities, taking a break, going to sit for food. And it's just incredible research on the importance of taking breaks. You might know this, but you know, the worst time to find yourself in court is just before lunch. Why? Because judges are more judgmental, they're more critical, they're more likely to find you guilty because they're angry, they're frustrated. Or, you know, schoolchildren, pupils at school, if you give them a break every hour, their results go up during the course of the day. If you don't give them a break, their results go down. But the worst performing kids, their results go down more than everyone else's. So breaks have this sort of incredible energizing quality for

• 36:51Speaker 01

  us. And if you say to yourself, look, you know, we all need a bit of structure. But if you say to yourself, you know what, I'm getting up from here and then, you know, I'm going to work for an hour, then I'm just going to stretch my legs, grab a coffee, look out the window, just trying to get a bit of break time built into your routines, has this effect of just keeping your energy ticking along.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, that's that's really interesting insight. And that one hour, what counts as a break, Bruce? Like, tell me what's a good break? Because I think when people hear the word break, they're like, what do I do in my break? And most people turn to browsing on social media or get lost in news. What counts as a break? So you're saying every hour, we perform better when we have a break every hour. How long is a good recommended break? And what do you do with that break?

• 37:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the the interest, there is some research into who, when the most productive people, how they manage their time. And generally, they work for 50 minutes and then they take 20 minutes off. So, you know, so the the idea is, actually, the the idea that we were meant to be sort of working relentlessly probably is a little bit unrealistic. And and generally, what you discover You know, my lesson into this was that I used to be one of those guys who would eat lunch al desco and you know, I would be sitting at my desk, pecking my computer keyboard with a sandwich in hand. And I just realised at the end of the day, I was spent. You know that feeling where someone asks you something and you just sort of stare through them, you're

• 38:21Speaker 01

  not really responding. And I was finding that was my situation, that burnout, that exhaustion. I was finding that was my situation. For me, the critical thing was getting a bit of structure, you know, and that was in in a normal world of work, just setting myself a goal, you know, three days this week, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go outside to the park at lunchtime, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna do something that punctuates the routine. And what you discover pretty quickly from it, you know, right now, depending on where you are, maybe you're allowed to go to parks, maybe you're allowed to exercise. If you say to yourself, oh, I'm gonna do my exercise at lunchtime, or I'm going to, I'm gonna walk to the grocery store today rather than drive there. And just trying to get a little

• 39:04Speaker 01

  bit of colour and variation, it often helps us feel like every day isn't quite the same. It might be as well. You say, look, I'm gonna phone a parent, a friend, a family member on that walk. And immediately it's become, oh, you know what, I had such a lovely time. I had a 30 minute walk, I chatted to my, my mom, you know, trying to feel your, what otherwise can feel the same, you know, we're weeks into this now, and, and it just becomes a blur. No one knows what day it is, no one knows what month it is, got a vague sense of season, you know, so we're in this zone where just putting a bit of punctuation actually helps.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I agree with that as well. I think changing it up every day with whatever it may be. And like you said, breaking up the call or a walk or something indoors that you can take as a break is a really powerful way of doing that. One of the things I think people struggle with is if someone already has a pretty poor relationship with their boss or with their work colleagues, now can feel like a really toxic time because you already had stresses on you and now you feel even more stressed out. How does someone navigate that? And I know you've done, you've been a leader inside large organisations, managed, you know, multiple employees. People, I, I think a lot of employees may be struggling with that right now. How would you guide them

• 40:25Speaker 02

  to talking to their managers right now, their colleagues, to help ease any of those stresses that existed from before?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're completely right. And especially because a lot of organisations are furloughing employees and, and maybe, you know, you've, you've survived a round of cuts and you're worried unless you seem to be working hard, it'll be your turn to go next. Absolutely. These, these things are a reality for all of us. I think the critical thing is that, you know, we've all got to try and understand what our managers' expectations are. And, you know, I'll, I'll be honest with you, sometimes those expectations are unreasonable. But understanding what our bosses, no matter how unreasonable they are, so we at least know, right, this is what's accepted, expected from me. Because my focus would, would be right now, anyone listening, watching, consuming this, would be thinking,

• 41:17Speaker 01

  how am I going to look after me? And then it becomes, of course, a, an assault course. Can I reconcile those two things? Can I feel like, okay, my boss needs to see that I'm online? What's the best way for me to make him happy with that without me burning out? And that might be, you know, just keeping an eye on emails while you actually take a break and you're sort of, you're, you're resting yourself. And look, I, I don't think there's any easy solutions to this because quite often our, that, you know, our managers can haunt us. I, I did some work at the start of the year, trying to understand what people considered the best part of their job and the worst part. Best part was always the

• 42:00Speaker 01

  people. People said, you know, they've got colleagues that they laugh with every day or every week. They've got people who seem to be looking out for them. It really brings some, some meaning to the jobs they do. Worst part of our jobs for so many of us is our boss. And so, you know, I, I can't bring a magic wand to solve that. But I think more than anything, we probably need a coping strategy. What can we do to deal with a good or bad boss? If we've got a good boss, then you know, a good boss who sort of facilitates honest dialogue. If you can say to your boss, I am feeling overwhelmed today. Listen, I'm gonna get my work done, but you know, I'm not gonna be online all day.

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Wow, what a great boss that will gift you that because probably the work will be better and and everyone will benefit from it. I recognize though, not every boss is unfortunately cast in that mould.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's just worth hearing your words on that because I think like you said, there isn't a, you know, there isn't any fairy dust for a situation like that.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  What was your experience in Accenture? Cause I mean, that must have been like a very demanding environment.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it was fascinating. I was there at a really, really interesting time when Accenture was moving into doing a lot of digital and innovation work. So we actually used to spend a ton of time at Google UK and, and other organizations trying to learn from them and gather insight. And I found that the space of the business that I was in, the leaders I had were very forward-thinking.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Fantastic.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  And, and were able to really push the boundaries. So there were, there were a couple of managers that I remember, not managers, they were execs, but there was a lady named Gillie Bryant, who now I believe is at EY, and then another lady named Sarah Bentley, and both of them were just incredible leaders that were very forward-thinking, very much strengths-based, very open. And Accenture was moving in that direction of that culture. I think it had, it was very much clear about what the culture had been in the past and everything, but there were, and this is why it all comes back to what you said, it's always the people. It's, I, I, I feel like it isn't companies, it is the people, it's individuals, it's managers. And I'd say this to any managers or leaders or CEOs or entrepreneurs listening right

• 44:14Speaker 02

  now, it's, it's your responsibility to create that feeling and take that step out and not follow the trend that your company may have had or that your management may have previously had. You can change that culture, right? To some degree, but you actually talk about company culture being a myth, Bruce, and that fascinates me. And I wanted to ask you, why are you so sure of that? And what does that mean to you? Because, yeah, that's.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Well, for me, the idea that we feel connected to the people around us is unequivocally the case. You know, it's one of those things that as we're evaluating time, you know, we very rarely say that if someone asks us to describe our formative years, we very rarely say, you know, I'm the person I am today because I had that incredible holiday in Hawaii. I'm the person I am today because I bought that new car. We more often talk about like the challenges we had, the issues we had to overcome. And when people talk about great workforces, they very rarely say, you know, that was an incredible place. We got free smoothies. Or they very rarely say that was incredible. Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they often say, you know, that was incredible place. The people there were just like inspirational. So no doubt, all of us can feel a sense of something larger than ourselves, a sense of purpose, mission from the people we work with. It just often doesn't happen at a company level. And you might have recognized this, when you were working at a big corporate, that quite often you'll feel a real affinity with the six, seven, eight, 10 people around you. But then a message will come from head office and everyone rolls their eyes and like, oh, man, what are they thinking? Why? Because that's generally what happens. When we feel that things are outside of our control, when we feel like

• 46:05Speaker 01

  we've got no agency autonomy over them, we start believing, oh, that it's been mandated by a bad person out in the business. No, it seems then, so what could we learn from this? It's a bit like saying, okay, that you've got all these NBA teams, but there's going to be an NBA culture that all of the teams are going to have. All of the NBA teams would say, no, no, no, we've got our culture. We don't. And then it comes from on high, the new culture is this. What happens is that either people reject it and they say, I'm not having anything to do with that, or they pretend to go along with it. Now, most of us don't have the power of NBA players. So most of it, the rule comes along from head office. This is the new culture.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Culture, we're going to be like this. And everyone just thinks, you know, I'm hoping to get a mortgage approved next year and I'm hoping to, you know, to be able to afford a nice vacation next year. I'm just going to go along with this. And that's what happens. You lose all of that magic, which was you and the gang and the people doing something and feeling like you were getting something done. And you lose it to people feeling like, I just need to go along with what head office is saying. And so that's the difference. Generally, when you observe, and it might be a sports franchise, it might be, it might be like a, a, a small team that you're working with. Generally, when you observe where people say,

• 47:29Speaker 01

  I love these people, they're talking about a cluster of really small people who had a personal connection with, they spoke to them most days. It generally doesn't happen that you have exactly the same culture between the Cincinnati office and, and the, you know, an office in Houston. Why? Because the people are different, their lives are different. And actually, we shouldn't try to force people to, to feel like they have to go along with, with a culture that's consistent. Celebrate the weirdness, celebrate the quirks, let the team in Boulder be different to the team in Boston. I think that's a critical thing.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  That's, that's a really unique point. And, and one of the things that stands out from what you're saying is that, is that feeling of, most people just roll their eyes because they're like, oh, here we go again, because it's just another update. Right? It, it just feels like another mandate, another update. And actually, none of us like, all of us generally have some sort of, uh, some sort of challenge with authority when we feel we're not involved in that decision making, right? Like when you, when you feel dis-

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, we have that. Yeah, go on.

• 48:37Speaker 01

  And any, and any sense, when people feel like they have no control, look, you could observe this, the most extreme versions of this, is when you've got extreme hierarchy. Now, that might be in the animal kingdom, you know, the, the animals who are the alphas will be sort of very positive, expressive.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Amy Cootie did an incredible TED Talk on this. The, you know, power has this disinhibiting impact on us. You know, people who, people in power or animals in power have this disinhibited behaviour. People who don't have power, so us, when a message comes from head office, we become a little bit withdrawn. We, we sort of, we hesitate, we stutter when we were saying something, we stammer over words because we were worried that we might cause offence. And these things, they might not seem necessarily like they have a direct bearing on our job, but really they have a big impact on the way we feel, the way we're able to express ourselves. And so when these messages come from on high, when, when head office sends a new directive,

• 49:38Speaker 01

  what effectively happens is people fall out of love, people fall out of love a little bit with their jobs where they feel, I'm not really able to, to bring my own ideas.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. If there was one hack or tip or tool or principle from your book that you'd want everyone to start practising today, that you feel would really benefit them right now during this pandemic, what would it be? What would be your, your tip or practice that people could do?

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Back in the day, I had a bad boss who said to me, Jay, you wandered past one day, he said, uh, now's not the time to be seen laughing.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Right. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. And there's so much sort of implicit threat in that. I'm, you know, I wasn't fully, fully sure. And, and his take was that, you know, he'd walked past, he'd seen a few of us goofing around, laughing, you know, couldn't even remember what it was. He said, now's not the time to be seen laughing. And it really struck me as I found myself. So I, I wrote this sort of book about workplace culture largely to try and get my workplace back into a good place. What are the specific actions I could take? And it was like, it was reluctantly. As I was finishing the book, I thought, you know what? I need to go and have a look at laughter. Because if laughter is this, actually this bad thing that distracts us from work, at least I can give people the, the ins and outs.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  And what you discover is that far from it. Laughter. So if you chat to firefighters, if I was, if I was a firefighter, if I was a combat soldier and you, you ask me about every day, combat soldiers, you know, we often see them when they're in. Switched on mode, but you know, combat soldiers will say, we used to spend hours laughing every day. Firefighters, one of the stressed, most stressful jobs, emergency services to any extent. And they'll say, we laughed all day, every day. And then, and you said, I chat to a firefighter. I said, do you mind me asking, did you ever discuss what you laughed about with family and friends? And they said, they would be horrified what we laughed about. Why? Because you start looking into it. Laughter is an incredible thing to reset our resilience.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Wow. You might have been through trauma, but the fact that you're able to sort of, sometimes there's a darkness to the humour. The fact that you're able to turn to someone and say, you know, and make a joke of it. Yeah. Discover is that I was so honoured to talk to the world's leading expert on laughter. A man who passed away at the end of last year, a wonderful man called Robert Provine. And the reason why I say he was the world's leading expert on laughter, he said to me, there's around a hundred thousand scientific peer reviewed papers on anxiety and depression and around a hundred and twenty five on laughter. So we just don't study laughter because the scientists think it's trivial, it's sort of unimportant.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  Anyway, he, he studied laughter and he said, so fascinating this, he said, um, he went into workplaces, he went into, into various places. Well firstly, he sat down, he put some strangers together and he showed them comedy videos. And what he learnt very quickly was strangers plus comedy does not equal laughter. And, and like, he was like baffled, why aren't people laughing? He learned very quickly, the reason why people laugh is that he discovered, he said, laughter is like a, um, he, he used the phrase, an impoverished cumin bird song, meaning that, okay, it doesn't sound as beautiful as a bird song, but we laugh to for, to signal connectingness to each other. You get together with your family, you've not been seen, you go back to London, you see your family, Jay.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  I guarantee that we laughed during the room. Yeah. Has something funny happened? No, it hasn't. But you're sort of laughing, you're, you're laughing expressively. You're signalling totogetherness. And so you look at it. And you go, so laughter signals togetherness, laughter resets our resilience. And laughter just seems to be like this magical thing. So when my boss walked past me saying, now's not the time to be seen laughing. Actually, maybe he couldn't have been more, more wrong. And so that's what I'd say to everyone right now, that sometimes if you're living alone in an apartment and you're seeing no one, and this, this sort of, this rule that you can't get together is just feeling like it's beating you up, then finding opportunities to maybe, you know, it might be

• 54:01Speaker 01

  really awkward to have a Zoom quiz with friends. Maybe you're not that guy. Maybe you're not that woman who loves that. But finding a way to build a bit of levity, a bit of laughter into your routine, seems to be just about the, the, the tip number one for all of us right now.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  That's a brilliant piece of advice, Bruce. I've not heard that from many people right now. And I think you're right. A lot of us feel guilty for laughing.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Like it's hard to laugh right now. Like every, it's basically what your boss said. I, I think, you know, like everyone would feel like now's not the time to be seen laughing. It feels like it's too serious. And actually, we're wrong because sometimes it's that laughter and that, that, not casualness, but that laughter and just the levity, as you said, that gives us the space to be productive, effective, useful, supportive, loving and, and everything else that comes from that. I, I couldn't agree with you more. I, I love that. So that's Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat, Bruce's book and podcast. And in his book, he gives 30 evidence-based ideas for improving work and how you actually can silence the bullies. You say lunch breaks are for wimps who celebrate

• 55:05Speaker 02

  overwork. We all know people like that and constant connectivity, or who think that workplaces should be filled with fear and anxiety rather than chat and laughter. So if you want to infuse some more laughter, love and levity into your workplace, Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat is great. You can get it on Amazon right now, right Bruce? That's the best.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right. Yeah. Or, you know, if you're an Audible, if you're an audiobook person, then yeah, it's, it's available on that too.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Amazing. So we've got two segments left for the end of the interview, Bruce. I ask you a bunch of really quick questions and you give me really quick answers. So this is called Fill in the Blanks. So you've got to fill in the blanks at the end of the sentence. The first one is, a great workplace starts with?

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, trust, I think.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Nice, I agree. Second one, being at work should never.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Be anxious.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  Yep. You'll be happier at your office if.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  You feel connected with your colleagues.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  That's good, smart. I like that. What impresses me most about humans is their ability to.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Adapt.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. A great leader will always.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Believe positive motivation in their team.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, wonderful. Okay, here are your final five. So that was great. That was fill in the blanks. You did really, really well. Very quick answers, only one pass. Now, this final five is one word to one sentence answers. So you get a bit more wiggle room. To answer questions. So here we go with your final five. So the first one I'm going to ask you is, the one company you feel is doing an outstanding job with the values they have in place and how you think their company comes across.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, right now I'm interested in organizations that are very focused on doing the right thing for their workers, for right thing to try and really sort of build trust. I, you know, it's hard in the situation we're in right now, and I'm based in the UK, to not look at health workers and be inspired with just the, the fact that people who work in that industry are never defeated and, you know, they run towards fire when they see it. It's hard not to be, you know, we all talk about mission. We all talk about getting purpose in our jobs.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  But when you, when you witness that, it's inspiring. It's inspiring to observe people who are doing a hard job and, and seem to relish doing it.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Amazing. Awesome. Second question, what have you been chasing in your life that you no longer pursue? What's something that you used to pursue that not, not important anymore?

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm fortunate that I've never been too preoccupied with material things. So I don't own a car, I don't own a watch. And so I've never been preoccupied with those things. So I feel I'm fortunate with those things. Yeah, I mean, right now, all of us are reminded that seeking vacations somewhere exotic isn't something that we can do right now. So I think I'm fortunate that I try and keep a degree of balance there.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Cool. What do you believe 100% about work that other experts or other thinkers would disagree with you on? What's a belief you have about work that other people don't seem to agree with?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, it might be a downer, but I believe work's going to get worse, not better. And I think quite often work experts will come and they'll talk about how things are going to improve. Here's one strange thing and terrifying thing. So we've got these wonderful devices in our pockets that have, you know, we've been fortunate that these phones have transformed our lives and they're magical. But what they've done is they've added two hours a day to the working day. You know, our parents had more balance than we did, you know, and we've created work that we can never escape. And in truth, I think there's a degree of lowest common denominator about these things

• 59:25Speaker 01

  that, you know, your company is only as strong as the worst person in it. And if your boss wants you to be online, you know, one piece of evidence is that if your company expects you to stay connected to email, you're online 70 hours a week to work. And, you know, it's no wonder we're in the middle of a burnout epidemic, but I don't see it getting better in the short term.

• 59:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, let's, let's.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  Let's hope you're not right, but, but, but yeah, I mean, it is the reality. We have to face the truth and maybe if we face the truth, we'll actually get better at dealing with it.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  That's exactly it. You know, the strange thing that these, because the burnout epidemic that was sweeping through offices was starting to afflict bosses. So like there's been famous cases of CEOs burning out of other people. Afflicting bosses, it's starting to get onto the agenda. When it was just younger workers or low status workers or, or workers who had no control burning out, then it didn't seem so relevant. As it's now afflicting everyone, maybe it is gonna, maybe there is hope.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Okay, last two questions. Let's do this one first. If you could create a law that everyone in the world would have to follow, what would it be?

• 1:00:48Speaker 01

  Um, you know, a law that everyone would have to follow. I think I, I would love to introduce a, a no email at weekends rule.

• 1:00:58Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a great rule.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  A, a no fly zone across weekends.

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  That's a great rule.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  And so, um.

• 1:01:06Speaker 02

  You get punished if you, if you break it, you, you get punished.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  You know, maybe you get a, a pass, you get one, one email a year that you can send. If something disastrous has happened, you give them one.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Okay. And fifth and final question on the interview. What was your biggest lesson that you've learned from the last 12 months?

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  You know, um.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think the strange thing is we've seen our whole lives dismantled, right? And the strange thing about that is had someone said to you, this is what's going to happen three months ago, six months ago, at the turn of the year, you'd go, no way, no way, no way. I, I was in the, you know, just as things were closing down. I said to a friend of mine, if you said, everyone is going to receive the news that they can't go out and everyone was going to abide by it, you'd have gone, no, people don't read the news anymore. People don't watch the news and the streets were empty.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  I think, you know, I think we've learned that far more about life is negotiable than we realise.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  And I hope that there are going to be some brilliant inventors, some creative people, some inspirations who are going to take the opportunity that that presents and run with it.

• 1:02:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, great answer, Bruce. I love that answer. Thank you so much, everyone. Bruce Daisley, Eat, Sleep, Work, Repeat. Grab the book, listen to the podcast. And Bruce, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I know it's late over there in the UK, so I really, really appreciate you staying up and taking away time from family and other things for doing this for us and sharing it with my audience.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Jay, you're inspiration, so I'm so grateful for the invitation to come.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  No, awesome. And where's the best place people can follow you? Is it Twitter? Is it Instagram? Is it, where's the best place?

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, Instagram, you generally get nice photographs of flowers that I've seen. But on Twitter or LinkedIn, you can hit me up there.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  Perfect. Everyone go and check out Bruce there. Bruce, thank you so much again today. Can't wait to share this episode. And thank you, everyone, for listening. Make sure that you share your insights, your takeaways, tag me and Bruce in your posts on Instagram and Twitter so that we both know what are the takeaways, what are the practices, what are the principles that you'll be putting into action this week. Thank you again for listening. Sending lots of love to you and your family. Thanks again. Thanks, Bruce. That was awesome.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Legendary. Thank you.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

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• 1:04:10Speaker 04

  Mr. President, my company tore me of the explosion on our rig on October 2nd. Causing massive water displacement and triggering a tsunami. They all heap the blame on me.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Tom Cruise is.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  Digger got us into this mess. And Digger's gonna dig us up.

• 1:04:25Speaker 03

  From the director of Birdman and The Revenant.

• 1:04:27Speaker 06

  What would happen if I stopped drilling? You stop, you freeze in there, that's what.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  With great power comes great deniability.

• 1:04:34Speaker 06

  I'm not the first then.

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  Digger. See the trailer online. Only in theaters October 2nd. Rated R. Under 17. Not a minute without parent.