Josh Gondelman is BACK for a story about gross boys who love each other very much. Follow Josh on Instagram at @joshgondelman! https://www.instagram.com/joshgondelman/ Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! https://kelseymckinneybook.com/ Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! https://shop.lostcitybookstore.com/product/9781000275124 Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/16apWUCMsCxKiCd1lcRtG_5nxs5-9ZJBnbzTSamAIJF4/edit?usp=sharing. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey https://www.instagram.com/mckinneykelsey/) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas https://www.instagram.com/ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel https://twitter.com/AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Sara Fagan. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices