New England Stolen Valor with Tobin Low

Tobin Low is back for a story about a mysterious lobsterman and his cousin and how he brought a community together during season one of lockdown. Follow Tobin on Instagram @tobinlow! https://www.instagram.com/tobinlow/ Get tickets to Kelsey's book tour here! https://kelseymckinneybook.com/ Pre-order Kelsey's book, YOU DIDN'T HEAR THIS FROM ME, here! https://shop.lostcitybookstore.com/product/9781000275124 Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Kelsey and Alex, blog recommendations, and bonus secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast Please make your gift today and help us reach our goal of 2,024 donors so we can keep on making interesting and beautiful things for you. THANK YOU! https://on.prx.org/3QEIIJk You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page: https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zM6AzFZ6G5lLg6TMhKb25_-1R4mre-hdKNujr1vjx_A/edit?usp=sharing. Follow the show on Instagram @normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney (@mckinneykelsey https://www.instagram.com/mckinneykelsey/) and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/), Ozzy Llinas Goodman (@ozzy_llinas https://www.instagram.com/ozzy_llinas), and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Abigail Segel (@AbigailSegel https://twitter.com/AbigailSegel) is our intern. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Credits read by Tiffany. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am thrilled to welcome back to the show Tobin Lo. Tobin is an editor for This American Life, who manages a team of producers pitching, reporting and structuring stories. Before coming to This American Life, he also co-hosted Nancy, a show about the contemporary queer experience, and also served as a producer for Radiolab on the first season of More Perfect. His work has appeared on Marketplace, Studio 360, and the Codebreaker podcast. Tobin, welcome.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Hey, I am so happy to be back. Truly thrilled.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, we're thrilled to have you. If you listen to the podcast, you may remember Tobin from season two, episode five, Personality of a Tan Wall, or from our San Francisco live show. Tobin, has your relationship with gossip changed at all since the last time you were on this podcast? Like, that was more than two years ago now.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  I don't think so. If anything, because I now, as a lot of people do, like, truly work remotely and from home. If anything, I feel like starved for gossip a little bit because the just the office culture, the like being around, seeing people so regularly culture, like, I feel like I'm missing out a little bit, let's say. But, you know, we're getting through it. If anyone wants to send me anonymous, just stuff, you know, DMs are open.

• 1:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. Do you have any methods for obtaining gossip since you are stuck at home?

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Um, I think there's a lot of, like, non-sponsored Zooms. Do you know what I mean? Just like-

• 1:46Speaker 00

  No. No, I don't know what you mean.

• 1:51Speaker 01

  In the way that, like, Zoom has taken over so much of people's professional lives of, like, you're going into a Zoom for, like, a meeting, like-

• 1:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  I, I think that there is now such a thing as, like, an off-the-book Zoom with people, you know, like, whoever, just to be like, can we catch up? And can you tell me what's really happening?

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Okay, so you're talking about, like, an unsponsored Zoom being the equivalent of being, like, can you meet me in the kitchen to talk about this in your office?

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly, exactly.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Wow, I love that. So you're proactively seeking the gossip that the office can no longer bring you.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  I think so. I think I'm, you know, I'm thirsty and I'm, you know, finding those oases in the middle of the desert. I started the metaphor before I knew where it was going.

• 2:38Speaker 00

  I think it worked great.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 2:40Speaker 00

  I was told that you brought a gossip for me. Is that true?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  I did bring a gossip for you. So I guess I'll start by saying, you must be familiar with the greatest feeling in the world.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Which is when you meet somebody, you catch a bad vibe and you don't like them. But you can't put your finger necessarily on a concrete thing. And then a little bit later, you get confirmation that that person is bad.

• 3:07Speaker 00

  God.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  And you're like, I knew it.

• 3:11Speaker 00

  Yes, this is, that really is like such a top fucking tear feeling, right? Like truly, sometimes people are like, can I talk shit? And I'm like, yes. And then they're like, okay, here's the name. And I'm like, oh my God, thank God, right? Like, I have been starving for years for whatever this is. And like, I don't care if it's this person left you on Reddit DMs. I need evidence for the feeling I've already decided is true.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. It is, oh, it's like the rush of adrenaline is so good.

• 3:43Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, yes. Incredible feeling.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  So my story is a little bit about that feeling.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, I love this for me.

• 3:53Speaker 00

  I wish we had like a catchy name for that, right? For being like proven.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Oh, like a German word?

• 3:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so this goes back to once upon a time when I was the co-host of a queer podcast. And I guess I would say like, one of the things I miss about being like an F-list queer.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Celebrity-ish, like, you know, just like a queer person of note is that you would get so much gossip and tea over like notable queer people who was actually nice, who was actually not so nice.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Like.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Access to that world was very interesting.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  Um, so I will say, once upon a time, we had a guest on the show.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  And it was the thing that I was saying before, where we caught a vibe. And I would say this segment was fine enough.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  But we just walked away and were like, that didn't work.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Something was off. And I'll say right now, don't go try and find it. We actually ended up not running it.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Nice.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  You're not gonna find it in our catalog anywhere.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Good clarification.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. But we, part of the reason that we decided not to run it was just like, ah, like.

• 5:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  This feeling about like, the vibe of this was off. So, cut to probably like, at least a year later.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  And.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Excellent.

• 5:23Speaker 01

  I am interviewing a small business, a queer owned small business.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  And we're just talking about like, what it is to like, run this, you know, this thing that they're doing. And they start talking about like, well, you know, one of the unfortunate things is that, you know, we're tiny, but sometimes these celebrities will reach out and they'll be like, can we get free swag?

• 5:45Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  And we have to be like.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  You know, we're a small business, like, this would mean nothing for you to just like, support us. And then sometimes they come back with like, well, this would be great exposure for you. Like, it's really shit.

• 5:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my god.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Like, that kind of energy.

• 5:58Speaker 00

  I just like, it is the 2020s now, we are not working for exposure. Like, I'm sorry, that's not a thing.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 6:05Speaker 00

  You just want free shit.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Right, right. So they were like, that's icky.

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Yes, especially within your own community, like.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:13Speaker 00

  Steal from Amazon, who cares?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  Do not steal from the locally owned adorable queer business.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  I know. It was truly cuckoo bananas when they were saying this, like, that this happens to them. And again, like, a lot of time had passed, so I don't know why, but I just had a gut feeling. And so I was like, if I say a name of someone who's done this to you. Will you tell me?

• 6:38Speaker 00

  Oh, my God.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  And so I said it and they tackled. They like lost, they thought I was a witch.

• 6:47Speaker 00

  Oh, this is like that. The feeling you must have had is like how I imagine it must feel to hit a homerun. Right? Like, it's just like, oh, shit. Right? Like, you've done it. That's crazy.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 00

  But you were right.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  I was right. That was, uh, we, and we felt so vindicated after that. Like, I went back to my team afterwards and I was like, good call, everyone. We did the right thing.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Yes. I think part of what makes that feeling so good is like, it is a reminder to trust yourself. Right? Because you're like, I was right all along. Right? Like, this feeling that I trusted was right.

• 7:24Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  And that is really a great feeling.

• 7:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:28Speaker 00

  And there's nothing like a shared enemy.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  I'm now like, I have so much shit to say, but we can't say any of that right now.

• 7:39Speaker 00

  Wow. Thank you for bringing me that gossip story. I loved it so much.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  I'm so happy to have brought it.

• 7:46Speaker 00

  Do you want to hear the story that I have for you?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I would love nothing more.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for, um, an undisclosed amount of months. Long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow. They deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But, uh, this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp. And I had a vision in mind. Wayfair, they had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pole cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one and now I have one because of course Wayfair had it.

• 8:43Speaker 02

  For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without distress. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kind of just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Book your first session in minutes and you can start in as little as two days. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com/gossip to get started today. That is growtherapy.com/gossip. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

• 10:17Speaker 03

  This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at O D O O dot com. That's O D O O dot com.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Today, we're in the Northeast.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:56Speaker 00

  Think like L.L. Bean and lighthouses. Long summer days, long winter nights.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  And we're in a town that's like, kind of dead in the winter, but in the summer is full and like touristy. It has lots of great restaurants, shopy shops, et cetera.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Gotcha, okay.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  This is where our friend of a friend, we're gonna call him Brian, lives. And Brian cannot wait for summer. This dummy drank like one Alagash White in college and was like, I have to move further north.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  This is my entire personality now.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  Yes, he's like the kind of person, you know, the people that like are not from the South, but then they go to an SEC school for college and then they're like, college football is my personality. And it's like, sweetie, that's not a personality. That's a whole section of the country's culture.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. I feel like the final evolution of this type is a person who moves to England for a couple of months and comes back with an accent.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Yes, the Madonna problem. Exactly. So this guy, Brian, he moves to the Northeast. He loves it. He loves living up there. And the thing he loves the most is lobster.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Okay. The side thing is that I recently cannot like had a revelation of like, oh, lobsters are bugs. And now I can't say anything besides that. And they really gross me out.

• 12:19Speaker 00

  They are bugs, kind of, like crabs. Yeah.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, continue.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  Brian loves lobster. He's like, from June to December, when lobsters are in season, lobster is his whole personality. Like, he's doing New England stolen valor constantly.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  He loves lobster so much that he has like a lobster guy who gets him fresh lobsters.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. And I'm sure he doesn't shut the fuck up about this guy either.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Never. Not once has he been quiet about this guy, right? And the guy knows like different kinds of lobster. He catches them fresh, right? Like, he's obsessed with the guy. Do you have anything that you feel as passionately about and/or any important guys in your life?

• 13:05Speaker 01

  If I do, I am sheepish about sharing it, not because I'd want to gatekeep, but because the energy of like, I know a guy, this is my guy for whatever. It's like, what are you trying to prove? Like, you're not better than me. You know what I mean? It's like, it's too much. It's too much. We all know a guy for something. Just like, it's fine.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  Yes. It's like, calm down about it. I live in Philadelphia, which is like, I would say probably one of the top tier cities for being like, do you want my guy? Do you want my mechanic? Do you want my carpenter? Do you want my whatever? So I'm, I'm close to many guys now, I feel.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. You know what, though? Now that you're saying that, that's fair. I think to have a guy for like repairs and whatever, like where it's really, you need a good person. I think that's totally fine to have a guy and recommend them.

• 13:55Speaker 00

  It's the lobster that upsets you here.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  The lobster part, I'm like, okay, calm it down. Let's take it down two notches.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  Yes. Another person who feels like, calm it down, let's take it down two notches, is Brian's girlfriend. We're gonna call her Christie.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Oh, Christie, I already feel so bad for you. Sorry, continue.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Christie is from the Northeast. So like, part of her life is making fun of Brian for this, right? Like, she's like, this is not a personality. And he's like, yes, it is, like, my knitted sweater begs to differ, right? But it's also like, the way it is in any relationship where you're like, it's kind of cute that this person that I love has this like semi annoying, very strange thing that they're obsessed with. And so she's like, whatever, it's fine that my dude is obsessed with lobster.

• 14:44Speaker 00

  Plus, she's like, Brian does literally all of our cooking. Like, he is our couple's chef. And so it is to my benefit to let Brian be obsessed with lobster.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Okay. You know what this is kind of the equivalent of?

• 15:02Speaker 00

  What?

• 15:02Speaker 01

  When an Asian person dates a white person.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Oh, no.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  And the white person like, is obsessed and like, knows how to cook, let's say, Chinese food really, really well. And the Asian person has to be like,

• 15:14Speaker 00

  I'm dying.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Ah, well, you know, like, this is problematic, but like, damn, can you do that food good?

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yes. Exactly. It's like, is this man kind of appropriating my lobster culture? Yes. But also, he's good at it. So like, we'll let him, let him pop off, right?

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let him make xiaolongbao from scratch. Go off, King.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 15:40Speaker 00

  Oh my God. When our story takes place, Brian is depressed because lobsters are not in season until June, and it is currently February.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 15:52Speaker 00

  It is February of 2020.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Interesting. Am I supposed to take in this time and place as like we're about, trauma's about to happen?

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 16:03Speaker 00

  Brian, February of 2020, is so bummed because he's working all the time. He has an office job, he has to go there. His girlfriend Christie works as a waitress, so they like barely see each other, right? They're like, he goes to the office, he's miserable. She goes to the restaurant, she's miserable. They get home at different hours, they're always asleep.

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  So when the world shuts down in March for what they think is two weeks, they're both like, okay, this is scary, but it's also like, kind of nice that we're gonna get to see each other. Like, we're gonna get to hang out. We can like, even though low key, we're like scared and wiping down all our groceries, it's like, nice to be with someone that you love.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Right. I feel like we all had a version of that feeling.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  Except, of course, we know it wasn't two weeks.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  And it becomes quickly clear that Brian is gonna have to work from home. So he like, makes his voyage to the office in a mask, gets his stuff, sets it up in the spare bedroom. He is then like, in Zoom hell, right? Like, going into the office at 8:00 AM, not leaving his room until 6:00 PM, at which point he is like exhausted and dead.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Mm hmm, mm hmm, mm hmm, okay.

• 17:10Speaker 00

  How are you feeling? You're looking stressed.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I just, I mean, I mostly, it's just taking me back to that feeling of like, the readjustment to Zooms all the time and being at home and all that. So it's like, I'm, I was tough on you, Brian, to start, now I feel for you a little bit.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  I'm cracking my red boiled shell to you a little bit.

• 17:33Speaker 00

  Christie also can't go to work, right? Because she works in hospitality. So like, Brian is feeling a little resentful because he's like, I'm working all day. And then I finish working and then I get to do my like hobby that I like, which is cooking dinner. But I feel so stressed all the time now.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  What do you think he should do here?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Can I ask, do you know if Christie is a bad cook?

• 18:00Speaker 00

  Good question. She does not cook.

• 18:03Speaker 01

  She does not cook. So we're talking like sweaters in the oven, kind of.

• 18:07Speaker 00

  Exactly, yes.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. I think if I were him, I'd be like, I think what a lot of people did, which is like, let's figure out like a couple of easy things that you can do. So there's like a little more of a chore share. Like maybe we are doing like pasta with a jarred sauce over it. And that's fine for some nights.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  Maybe you can microwave a pizza, right?

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it'll be the thought that counts and I will feel like equally valued.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  Brian decides like, we have to have a conversation about like division of labor. Right? Like, who's doing what? And he's like, if I'm going to be cooking and going to work all day, I need you to do these other things. And Christie's like, that's totally fair. Like, I'm happy to do all those other things. Great. So it's like, that's fine, but it's like, still the cooking is a lot of work and you're doing that at the end of the day. And like, he's feeling exhausted all the time. About a month into the pandemic, Christie comes to him and is like, I saw something online. It's called big lasagna and everyone is going to make a big lasagna.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Oh, I made that fucking big lasagna.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  I rolled that pasta by hand. I made that fucking tomato sauce by hand. Oh, my God. Yeah, I remember big lasagna for sure.

• 19:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, you forgot it until just now, but now you remember. Yeah. The thing about big lasagna, okay, first off, shout out to friend of the podcast, Samin Nosrat.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Love her.

• 19:44Speaker 00

  Who wrote this recipe for the New York Times in like April of 2020 and was like, we're all making big lasagna. And the thing about big lasagna is that it was kind of insane. Like, it was like, you're gonna make every piece of the lasagna by hand.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  And then you're gonna stack it all up and you're gonna cook it. And then like, the lasagna is so big that you'll have a meal for like, a week.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. You know what's funny about it, thinking back on it now, is like, do you know those TikTok accounts that are, I think, essentially rage bait? Where it's the influencers who are like, I wanted gum, and so I like Xanthum, whatever, whatever. It's like, we all like to rag on that, but once upon a time, we were like, I'm gonna make a lasagna. I'm gonna start by getting a pottery wheel to make the container.

• 20:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. I'm like, learning to make a bechamel sauce, right? Like, in my kitchen, like sweating.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  It was so good, though. Can I just say, the final product was worth, the juice was worth the squeeze.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  Yes. Okay, so in, like, writing this script, I was like, damn, should I make the big lasagna again? Because I was like, I remember it being really good.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  It was so good, anyway.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Thank you, Samin. Okay, so Christie comes to Brian and is like, everyone's doing this big lasagna. I think big lasagna seems great. I want to make the big lasagna. But like, I know that cooking is like, kind of your thing. Would it be okay with you if I went big lasagna mode? What do you think?

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Wait, she's gonna do big lasagna?

• 21:14Speaker 00

  She wants to do big lasagna.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  No, Christie. If you can't ride a bike, you don't get on a motorcycle. Like, that's not, this is too fast, too much too fast. I think this is bad news.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. Brian is like a control freak in the kitchen, right? Like, he's like the kind of person that cannot share, right? Like, if you're like, can I help you? Can I chop something? He's like, no, because you're gonna chop it wrong, right?

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Ah, ah.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  So he's like, the thing is, the only way you can cook the big lasagna is if I forfeit it entirely. Like, I cannot help you. You have to do it by yourself. And she's like, cool, I'll do it.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  That seems fair. I have to say, everyone here in this story so far is in a prison of their own making.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  Yes. And Christie enters jail. She lives there now, in the big lasagna jail. And like, the thing about big lasagna is there's a lot of videos and there's a lot of instructions. And like, is her lasagna the best big lasagna in the world? No, but she makes it. And Brian is like, I'm so proud of you. Like, you don't know how to cook and you made a whole lasagna from scratch. That's crazy.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. Good for her.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  She's like, yeah, I like, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. And he's like, you did it, babe. And she's like, here's the thing. I think that you are really stressed and I'm worried about you. Like, could I cook some more? I have now proven that I can follow own recipe. Like, please.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  Oh, I think I missed that in their dynamic, that it's not just that he is the only one who cooks because he's the only one who can. It's that he's been keeping her out.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 22:48Speaker 01

  I see, okay. So she wants to cook now.

• 22:51Speaker 00

  She wants to cook. She's like, I mean, she's watching him work all the time. It's like, what if when you stopped working on your Zoom call at 8:00 PM, there was dinner for you to eat?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 23:00Speaker 00

  What if that?

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  So Brian is like, okay, compromise. You can cook on weekdays. Like, I still get to cook my special little things on the weekends, but on the weekdays, you can cook dinner.

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Cool. And the division of labor has now switched the other way, where she's doing five days a week and he's doing two.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  Yes. Christie's like, great. I love that because Christie has too much time, right? And she is bored. So she quickly becomes embroiled in the home cook culture that swept the nation in early 2020.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 23:37Speaker 00

  Do you remember this?

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm guessing she's making sourdough. I'm guessing that she's, um, what were other things that got really big at that time?

• 23:46Speaker 00

  Luckily for you, I have a list of things we can go through to see if you remember them.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Oh, beautiful. Let's hear it.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Do you remember banana bread?

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Fuck, yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Do you remember growing your own scallions in a shot glass?

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Yes. And I have no green thumb whatsoever. Like, I kill cactuses. And I tried this trick and no one told me that you have to switch out the water fairly frequently.

• 24:11Speaker 00

  So it just rotted?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  The smell was overwhelming.

• 24:16Speaker 00

  No. Do you remember the bucatini shortage?

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  And the flour shortage?

• 24:25Speaker 01

  The flour shortage. Yes, yes. It was so hard to find that stuff.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  Yeah. Do you remember jammy eggs?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  I still make jammy eggs. Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  They're good. I still make saucy beans, too.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Oh, saucy beans. Yeah.

• 24:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. All of these things happened in like the first two months of the pandemic. Like, they happened like immediately.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:46Speaker 00

  So Christie is like getting deep in home cook culture. She is like being, you know, dumped into the ocean to learn to swim.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 24:55Speaker 00

  She's like watching Molly Baz videos, right? She's making Alison Roman cookies. This is fine, except nothing she makes is like really that great. And also, the kitchen is always a disaster.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  So like when Brian wants one glass of water or to cook on the weekend, it's like covered in flour.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  I see. And I'm sure Brian with his like, yes chef mentality is like losing his mind.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yes.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  This is the dynamic when one day Brian gets a text.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  And this text is from Lawrence.

• 25:30Speaker 00

  Sweet, beautiful Lawrence is Brian's lobster guy.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  They're on a texting basis?

• 25:38Speaker 00

  Lawrence is a hometown hero. He's like one of those giant men, like beefy men, who has like a red beard and like all American traditional tattoos and like is always wearing a perfect sweater.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yes, I can, I can picture it completely.

• 25:55Speaker 00

  Brian admires Lawrence the way that straight men admire other straight men, which is to say he has a crush on him.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Yes, okay.

• 26:02Speaker 00

  And Brian is like, oh my God, Lawrence is texting me. I can't believe I forgot all about him. Like, we've been so busy with work. This is terrible. And the text is like, "Hey, everyone," clearly a form text that's going to lots of people, "hey, everyone, just wanted to let everyone know that me and the misses are going down to Florida to ride this all out until lobster season comes back." Terrible.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  Lobster man is leaving. The text continues, "I just wanted to ask everyone for a favor. My cousin Jax, J A X, usually sells fish to restaurants, but with all the restaurants closed, he's selling direct to consumers. If you want to buy some fish, he's going to be selling fresh caught fish in like this person's front yard on Tuesdays."

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I see.

• 26:46Speaker 00

  What do you think about this?

• 26:48Speaker 01

  This was also kind of a pandemic thing. Is, is the like buying in bulk or like direct from restaurant? Like, I feel like a lot of restaurants were like, we're just going to sell our inventory now.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  So I feel, this is also bringing back feelings of like, oh, right, I picked up so many boxes of just like,

• 27:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  fancy groceries or whatever.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  Yes. Eating like a weird tasting menu in your apartment, right?

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  Unhappily.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:16Speaker 00

  Brian is like, if Lawrence is asking me to help his cousin Jax, I'm gonna help him.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  So he tells Christie, he's like, can you please go to Lawrence the lobster guy's cousin's thing? He like sends Christie the text. He sends her the Instagram post. He sends her like the time and stuff. He's like, I gotta support my guy. And Christie's like, of course, like, she also loves Lawrence. Everyone loves Lawrence. Like, sometimes if it's your birthday or anniversary or something, Lawrence will give you free clams. So everyone's like, Lawrence is the love of my life, right? And also, as you mentioned, there was a lot of valor in buying things early on in the pandemic. Like, it was very easy to be like, I'm the best person in the world because I'm supporting my community. And like, mutual aid is me buying myself dinner, me buying cocktails to go in a court container to walk around my neighborhood?

• 28:07Speaker 00

  That's community care, baby.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, batch cocktails.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  TBT.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 00

  So Christie and Brian are both on board. They're like, we're gonna support Lawrence the Lobster Guy's cousin Jax by buying his fish. So the first week this is happening, Christie goes. Apparently, the whole community got this text. The whole community was like, we'll take care of your cousin for you, beloved lobster man. Because by the time Christie gets there, there are no fish left.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Ah, okay.

• 28:40Speaker 00

  How are you feeling at this point? Let's check in.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Here's my worry for them.

• 28:44Speaker 00

  Please.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  As someone who has, at times in my life, been part of like a CSA.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  It seems all well and good. We are like, I'm gonna get a bunch of raw green. It's gonna be great. And then it's like The New Yorker where it's oppressive in its abundance and its regularity. And so I'm just worried what they're buying into.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Right.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  One can only eat so much fish.

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, you can only use so many cloves of garlic, right?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  Exactly. So I, I'm, I'm, I wonder where this is going for them.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  The next Tuesday comes, and when Brian emerges from all his meetings, there is like a nice dinner on the table. And the dinner is fish. And Christie's like, I went to the pop-up. I got the fish. And Brian's like, thank you so much for going. Like, did you meet Lawrence the Lobster Man's cousin Jax? And she's like, oh, my God, yes, but Jax does not look like Lawrence.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 29:39Speaker 00

  And Brian's like, what do you mean? And Christie's like, I don't know, Lawrence is like, kinda cuddly. And Brian's like, you think Lawrence the Lobster Man is cuddly? And she's like, yeah, he's like a soft man. Like, his hair looks soft. His sweaters are soft. She's like, Jax is the opposite. He's like, very lean. And he's like, wearing the most insane thing I've ever seen.

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 30:03Speaker 00

  And Brian is like, what thing? And she's like, well, I thought at first that it was like a tool belt. But then when I got closer, I realized that it wasn't a tool belt. It's actually cargo shorts that have been cut so that only the waistband and the pockets on the side remain. And then he buttoned that on top of his jeans.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Brian's like, what? And she's like, yeah, it's like just the pockets. He had a bunch of stuff in them.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 30:39Speaker 00

  And Brian's like, okay, this is strange. What else was happening there? And she's like, oh, my God, it was such a cute little operation, right? Like, kind of small, couple coolers and a table. It felt super safe. Like, you told him what you wanted. Everyone's wearing a mask. He put it on the table. You Venmo'd him with a fish emoji, which is good because at this time, people are scared of cash. And also, there was a coin shortage.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:00Speaker 00

  And then he backs up. You take your fish. Bing, bang, boom. Brian's like, that sounds great. I love that for you. And Christie's like, yeah, the only thing is it was like really expensive for fish.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  And Brian's like, honestly, that's fine. Not a lot of people have jobs right now. I still have a job. I'm still making money. Like, I will support my lobster guy and his cousin at all costs.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Right, right, right. Also, a familiar feeling from that time.

• 31:28Speaker 00

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. They eat the fish. The fish is good, but it's it's not great. And he's like, Chrissy, how did you cook this? And Chrissy's like, oh, I just roasted it. And he's like, with oil and salt? And she's like, uh, no, not really. I mean, I figured since it was so fresh, I was better to like, leave the natural flavor. So I just put some arranged lemons and oranges on the top of it, like I saw on Alison Roman's Instagram.

• 31:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 31:56Speaker 00

  And he's like, baby, I love you, but you have to use oil and salt.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  She just raw dogged that fish, man.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  She tastes the fish. She's like, oh, my God, you're so right. This needs salt so badly. And he's like, OK, so next week, you're going to use oil and salt. And she's like, yes. Next week comes, he's busy. He's stuck in meetings till eight. This is terrible. When he comes to dinner, Christie fills them all in. She's like, you know, there's this happened a lot in the pandemic where like, one person was in meetings all day and exhausted, and the other person was like starved for social interaction. So it was like, one wants to talk so badly. The other wants silence. So Christie's talking, talking, talking. And she's like, it was busier this week. There were more coolers. Lots of people were there. It was very exciting. I waved to our neighbors, blah, blah, blah, blah. She's like, I used oil and salt this week and lemon. So I think it's going to be really good.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  OK.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  They taste the fish. It's still fine. Brian's like, I don't understand what she's doing to this fish. Like, why does it taste like this?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Support comes from Wise, the smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send your money abroad with your everyday bank? Choose the smart way. Wise. You can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google. No unwelcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money feeling. Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart, get wise. Download the Wise app today. Ts and Cs apply.

• 34:07Speaker 00

  Every week she makes fish on Tuesday.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  It's fine. She's so happy to be supporting Jax and the community. He's so happy to be supporting Jax and the community. As the weeks go by, this operation is like really growing, right? Like there are tin coolers, people are like sharing recipes in an email chain. There's like one week where everyone bakes ceviche together. It's like, just like big lasagna. It always tastes fine.

• 34:37Speaker 00

  And Brian is always like, thank you so much for dinner, honey. I love it. Cause he's like, it's nice of her to cook. Jax, at this point, has like a whole professionalized Instagram, right? And so Brian's following that and he sees one day that Jax is like, hey, new announcement. We're gonna have more varieties of fish now.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Brian's like, that rules. He's like, maybe if Christie got a different kind of fish, it would be better.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  Do you broach this to Christie? Like, what do you, what do you think?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  I think there's totally, he has total coverage to just say, we're eating this every week. We, you know, like our whole life right now is about the same routine over and over again.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  He has total coverage to be like, let's just switch up the fish for variety. Like, I think he can do that without hurting anyone's feelings.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  Yes. He's like, I'm not gonna tell her that I think the fish is fine every week when she cooks it. I'm gonna say, hey, I saw there was a new fish.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Like new fish just dropped. Maybe we could try it. And Christie's like, oh my God, great idea. Right? They like decide which of the other fish they're gonna cook. They pick a recipe. She like goes the next Tuesday. She texts him from Jax's thing. She's like, I got the cod. It came from a bigger cooler. He's like, this is huge. I love this. He like sits down at the table that night to eat it. He takes a bite and he is like, this is the same fucking fish.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Oh, it's not even the different variety that was promised.

• 36:09Speaker 00

  It tastes identical.

• 36:13Speaker 00

  What do you do?

• 36:16Speaker 00

  You're Brian. Your cute girlfriend has prepared fish for you for the eighth week in a row.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  I think this is the moment where you can say what you've been feeling because now it is truly not her problem. Like it's, you can say like, this tastes like the same fish and that's not your fault. That's, that is somebody who told you it was a different fish. So whether or not he's going to do it, I think this could be his moment to fess up.

• 36:44Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. You know, when you've like had a lot of bad things happen in a row and then one more bad thing happens and it like breaks you in half?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:53Speaker 00

  This is the one more bad thing for Brian, right? Like he's like, he is crying. And Christie is like, why are you, oh no, like, why are you crying? Like, I'm so sorry. Did I make the fish wrong? And he's like, it's just like, it's so many meetings and like, things are so scary. And I was like, really looking forward to having a different fish today. And Christie's like, but I got a different fish today.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 37:19Speaker 00

  You're Brian, you're like 75% sure that this is an identical fish. How are you continuing this conversation?

• 37:26Speaker 01

  I think I'm calling a spade a spade. I'm like, we're being swindled somehow. Like, you know, like, we want to support the small business, but something isn't adding up. Something smells fishy, in fact.

• 37:42Speaker 00

  Brian is like, how did you prepare this fish? Like, what did you do? He's like, maybe it's just the preparation that makes it taste the same, right?

• 37:50Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 37:50Speaker 00

  And Christie is like, I'm really trying my best. Like, I know I'm not as good of a cook as you, but like, I'm really trying, like, I got a different fish and like, I prepared, it's like a nice lemony garlic sauce. Like, I'm so sorry. And Brian's like, no, no, no, no, I know that you're doing your best. Like, I'm not blaming you. I just like, I really think this is the same fish. And she like goes into the kitchen and she's like, okay, here's the like wrapper. It came in, right? Like, see, it says cod.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  And he's like, okay, I think maybe Jack's just like got mixed up and gave you the same fishes last week.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  I see.

• 38:28Speaker 00

  And Christie's like, yeah, maybe, but like, he feels so bad.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 38:33Speaker 00

  How are you feeling at this point?

• 38:36Speaker 01

  I think everyone's in their feelings. Everyone's a little emotional. I'm gonna tuck away suspicions for now and be like, I'm gonna take it back a notch and say like, I'm sorry, you know, this is, you're doing your best. I appreciate it. I mean, I think I'm gonna return to the fantasy land where we're both living in. Yeah, he's doing a fine job.

• 38:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:58Speaker 01

  This is a different fish.

• 39:00Speaker 00

  Yes. That is exactly what happens. Brian is like, I'm not gonna say another word about this. Like, she could serve me the same fish forever that is fine and I will say I love it. I appreciate her. Right? Like, she is helping me.

• 39:16Speaker 00

  The next Tuesday, he comes out of his terrible hellhole of Zooms and at his place on the table are two plates.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 39:25Speaker 00

  And on each plate is a fish fillet. And Christie is like, after I got really upset last week, I didn't want to talk about it anymore, but it kind of like wormed its way into my brain. And I was like, what if he's right? She's like, so I thought about what you were saying and today I got two different kinds of fish. And I prepared them the same way.

• 39:48Speaker 00

  And now you can try them.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Smart.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  You like that?

• 39:51Speaker 01

  That's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this.

• 39:54Speaker 00

  Brian is like, this is thrilling. He's like, this is the most interesting thing that has happened to me in months. There is no intrigue in the world, right? He's like all amped up.

• 40:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:05Speaker 00

  He looks at the fish. The fish look identical.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  He's like, okay, bad start. He tastes the first fish. It tastes fine. He drinks a little water. He tastes the second fish. It tastes fine. They taste exactly the same.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  Brian's like, are you fucking with me? Like, these are the same fish and you just put them on these plates like as a bit? Like, that's a really good bit? And Christie's like, I promise you, I am not fucking with you. Like, here are the papers. They are two different fish.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  So now you think that Jax has been giving you the same fish, no matter what kind of fish you order. What do you do with this information?

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Do they have friends who have also been purchasing fish from Jax?

• 41:03Speaker 00

  Great question, yes.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  Okay, I think I'm going on an information gathering. I'm not going directly to Jax yet. I'm seeing if other people have the same experience.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Okay, so the first thing they do is they ask the other people they know that are getting this fish share. And they're all like, yeah, we get the fish. They always taste fine, no problems here. And they're like, okay, interesting that your fish also tastes fine, right? Not good, not great, fine. They're like three months into the pandemic at this point, right? So they have like a pod of people that they're seeing, right? Like safely. And so Christie is like, okay, you know, I work as a waitress at a restaurant. There's a chef from my restaurant in our pod. She's like, so we're going crazy. Like Tiger King is over. This is our mystery. We are locked in. She's like, I'm roping the chef into this, right? He's a fucking chef.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 42:00Speaker 00

  So she's like, hey, chef, can you identify a fish for me? And he's like, yeah, totally send the fish over. So she like sends a pic of the first fish to the group thread. And is like, what fish is this? And the chef's like, I don't know, man. It like looks like a tilapia, I guess, like some kind of white fish. And Christie's like, okay, thank you. What about this one?

• 42:22Speaker 00

  And the chef is like, those look the same.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  He's like, but I'd have to taste them to like, tell you what kind of fish it is.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  Christie's like, great, I'll be right over. She and Brian take her two fish, which are not eaten yet, go over to the chef's house and are like, here you go, taste these. He tastes the first fish. He's like, this is not a good fish. They're like, yes. He tastes the second fish. He's like, okay, these are the same fish.

• 42:57Speaker 00

  And they're like, we fucking knew it. We knew it was the same fish, right? They're like high fiving, right? They're thrilled.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  And he's like, where did you get these fish, right? He's like still tasting them and like looking confused. And they're like, oh, they're from Jack's. And the chef is like Lawrence the Lobster Man's cousin? And they're like, yeah. And he's like, okay.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  I don't know what kind of scam that man is pulling. But not only do I know that these are the same fish, I know what fish they are.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Oh. Is it not even like a nice fish? What kind of fish is it?

• 43:31Speaker 00

  They're like, what kind of fish is it, man? And the chef is like, listen, I'm like 99% sure that these are the frozen tilapia fillets that I buy every single week from the big box store.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Of course, of course, that's amazing. You know what the tell should have been?

• 43:57Speaker 00

  Please.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  When he expanded the offerings. It's like when you see a restaurant that has a sign that says, we do sushi now. And you're like, no, no, no, no, no.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 44:08Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 44:09Speaker 00

  This is a pizza place.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  What do you do? What do you do with this? You now believe that Jack's is selling frozen big box store tilapia fillets in fancy wrappers to many people in your community.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Listen, if I'm Christie and I have the time in the world right now.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  All the time.

• 44:32Speaker 01

  I'm going to Amazon, I'm buying a wig and a trench coat.

• 44:37Speaker 01

  I'm headed to big box store and I am camping out in that fish section.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Waiting for evidence.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  I love that plan. That is a really good plan. They are kind of like, okay.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Jax is a small business owner and right now in this country, we are obsessed with small business owners and I like helping them. They're like, so if we're gonna accuse him of pulling a scam, we need to be absolutely sure that we're right.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 45:08Speaker 00

  So their pod is like, cause now this other couple is in on this, right? They're like, we're devoted to this fish mystery.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  And so they're like, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna test again next week with controls.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 45:21Speaker 00

  They decide someone else has to go to get the fish, right? Christie can't go because like Christie's been going every week and Jax knows that Christie's not a good cook, right? So it's possible that he's just giving her the same fish because he knows she won't know any better, right?

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 45:35Speaker 00

  They're like, Brian can't go because like he's Lawrence the Lobster Man's friend.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 45:41Speaker 00

  Chef can't go because chef is known by all of these people. So they're like chef's wife is gonna go. So chef's wife goes to Jax and she buys the fish. She buys two different kinds of fish. Chef goes to the big box store. He buys frozen tilapia.

• 45:59Speaker 00

  They decide, you know, Christie's not that good of a home cook. Her methods are a little inconsistent. Chef is gonna do the cooking.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  They go to chef's house. Chef is like, I'm gonna prepare them all the same way and then we are gonna execute a blind taste test.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  So he does this. He puts the three fillets, fish A, fish B, and the big box store tilapia on their plates. They're all made the same way. He's like, you're each gonna try one, right?

• 46:26Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 46:27Speaker 00

  Everyone's tasting, right? They're tasting fish A, they're tasting fish B, they're tasting fish C. Christie's like, this is so much better than when I made it. And chef is like, thank you. They're testing fish B again, right? All of these fishes are the same, right? They're like, these are the same. And the chef is like, please do not discuss? Please vote. Which one of these do you think is the tilapia?

• 46:48Speaker 00

  Brian's like, I think it's fish A. Chrissy's like, I think it's fish C. Chef wife is like, I think it's fish B. Chef is like, good job, honey. B was correct. And she's like, to be honest, I was guessing all of these tastes the same.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 47:05Speaker 00

  How do you feel about this controlled experiment? Do you think it is good?

• 47:10Speaker 01

  I mean, I think it's pretty undeniable after such a, you know, a well-executed experiment. In my mind, he's guilty. Like, I'm jumping straight to guilty.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  No trial by jury, straight guilt.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also should say, and maybe this is my broken brain. If that is the case that he's been buying from Big Box Store and selling, like, go off. I love that.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  You know the story of the girl who like snuck into Stanford's dorm, even though she didn't get accepted and went to classes for like a couple of weeks?

• 47:45Speaker 00

  No, but that's hilarious.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then they kicked her out. And I, when I heard that story, I was like, they should let her into Stanford. Cause like-

• 47:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, she's clearly brilliant.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's like-

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Let her stay.

• 47:56Speaker 01

  Ingenuity there. And so I'm like, this small business guy, like, he figured out a, a supply chain that these people would accept. So-

• 48:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, is it, it's still local if the chef, if the Big Box Store is down the street, right? It's still a local fish.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  Chef and Brian are like, this is ridiculous. They're like, it's time for us to do math. They're like, it's been like 10 weeks that he's been doing this. There's probably like 250 orders of fish every week. That's like $4,000 in fish sales. They're like, and this fish that you're buying at the Big Box Store is worth like $1,000 max for all of it. They're like, so this man is making a $3,000 profit off of like allegedly frozen Big Box Tawaka.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  Again, honestly, kudos to him.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  This is the case.

• 49:00Speaker 00

  Everyone is pissed. They have not reached your state of tranquility yet. The chef is pissed because he's like, all these fish suck, right? Brian and Christie are pissed because they're like, we've spent what it seems to be like a nice sum of money on frozen big box tilapia. And so has everyone in our neighborhood.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  Right? Brian and Christie are getting all worked up. They're like, should we sue?

• 49:24Speaker 00

  And the chef is like, you're gonna sue?

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 00

  Your highly illegal fish market?

• 49:32Speaker 00

  He's like, that's like reporting your drug dealer for shorting you an eighth.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  You can't like, you can't sue someone for this. The justice system is useless to you here.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Plus the sheer embarrassment of having to describe how you've been had in this way.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  You know, explaining that I think would be embarrassing.

• 49:55Speaker 00

  What other option do you have?

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Oh, well, at this point, you have information that you can just quietly spread to the masses. But then you would have to explain to Jax why all the business dried up.

• 50:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  So I don't know. I mean, I think I'm telling people what the deal is. But then I don't know what to do about Jax and what he, what his questions will be.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  You have to remember that Brian's number one loyalty is to Lawrence the lobster guy.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Lobster guy, right?

• 50:25Speaker 00

  And so he's like, if we tell everyone and then Jax's business dries up, he's gonna tell Lawrence that we killed his business. Right? And that's bad for me.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 50:34Speaker 00

  But also, I don't want people buying expensive, big box frozen tilapia. He's like, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna confront Jax, right? And hopefully in this confrontation, I can be like, I'm happy to support you, but you're lying. Please stop lying and we will buy fresh fish from you. Like, that's fine. Everyone's like, great idea, Brian. We love it. So the next Tuesday, he goes and he's like, hey, man, we need to talk. And Jax is like, I'm sorry, who are you? And Brian is like, oh, sorry, I'm Brian. I'm Christie's boyfriend. Christie like waves. And Jax is like, okay. And Brian is like, yeah, Lawrence is my buddy. Like, we're buddies. And Jax is like, okay.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  And Brian's like, listen, we know what you're doing with the fish. Like, we know that they're all the same kind. And Jax is like, I don't know what you're talking about. We have four different kinds of fish. And Brian's like, we also know that they're all coming from the big box store. Like, you've got to stop. And Jax is like, listen, man, I don't have time for this conversation. And then he gets into his car and he drives away. And everyone is like, where's Jax going? And Brian is like, I don't know. And then Jax is gone and they never hear from him again.

• 51:55Speaker 01

  What? He just up and disappears?

• 51:57Speaker 00

  He Irish combined his own fish thing.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Wow, I've never, like, what a way to confirm your guilt. It's just to, like, Looney Tunes disappear in a cloud of smoke as you're running out of town.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  We're almost at the end. How do you feel and whose side are you on at this point?

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Honestly, honestly, again, broken brain.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Congratulations, Jax, on your crime.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  We salute you.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  And what I really would love to happen is for Lawrence to come back and be like, I'm so sorry, my cousin Jax, like, he, I know he never made it. And they'd be like, what do you mean? Jax has been selling fish for, I just want it to be so, like, a scammer. Like, that would, that would really be delicious.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  I do have a few more updates for you.

• 52:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  The first one is that after Jax left town, everyone, he kind of just moved on. Like, people did a lot of wild stuff during the pandemic and everyone was like, we're all fine. Like, he needed money, like, it's probably fine. People's focus was, like, drawn elsewhere, right? Like, every home cook was distracted in 2020 because Bon Appetit was imploding. So they were like, we have a lot of other things to think about.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 53:16Speaker 00

  One final question I have for you is, you're Brian.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  Do you contact Lawrence the Lobster Man about any of this?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  I am gonna say if I were Brian, no. I'm gonna say it was like a weird blip. We all got had. We can all put our tails between our legs. At this point, I think the priority is a continued good relationship with Lawrence, the lobster guy.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, Brian is like, the cons are like, maybe Lawrence would be mad at me.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:50Speaker 00

  And that would be terrible.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  And then I might have to find a new lobster guy, which would also be terrible. And he's like, but the pros are like, maybe I get justice in some way. Maybe he won't do it again. He's like, but the biggest pro is that I get to talk to Lawrence. So Brian decides I'm gonna text him.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Brian, why?

• 54:18Speaker 00

  So he texts Lawrence the Lobster Man and he's like, Lawrence, a lot of shit has been happening. And he tells him everything. And Lawrence is like, God damn it. I thought he wasn't gonna do this again. He told me he was clean. He told me it was different this time. I took away his Bing Lock Store membership. I tried to stop this.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, Jax is the music man. He's going town to town, selling them band instruments and conning.

• 54:52Speaker 00

  Brian is like, what do you mean? You thought he wasn't gonna do this again? Has he done this before? And Lawrence is like, oh, yeah, man, like 10 years ago in a different part of the country, he ran the same scam with shrimp.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Which is bold because packaged shrimp, the difference is vast.

• 55:12Speaker 00

  Stark. Brian is like, oh, my God. And Lawrence is like, I'm so sorry, man. Like, I should have known better.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  What?

• 55:21Speaker 00

  And Brian's like, it's okay, I forgive you. And Lawrence is like, where is he? Like, I'm gonna deal with him. And Brian is like, I don't know. Like, he's gone. He like disappeared in the wind.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  And Lawrence is like, God damn it. Like, I can't believe this happened again. And Brian's like, are you coming back?

• 55:46Speaker 00

  And Lawrence is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be back for the season.

• 55:49Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 55:51Speaker 00

  And sure enough, he came back and he caught lobster. And despite the pandemic, all the lobsters were fine and there were plenty of them. And he gave Brian free clams all summer for his trouble and sometimes even a free lobster.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  See, again, perfect crime. Everyone came out on top.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  Yeah. In the end, Brian got free lobster, which Christie did not cook.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  Christie fell out of love with home cooking, you know, from either overexposure and exhaustion or half of the cooks she watched being canceled. Who's to say?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  And she got very good at making rolls. And so together they had lobster rolls all summer long and they never saw Jax again.

• 56:29Speaker 01

  Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. You know what? I think everyone got their money's worth out of this whole experience. You know, like, maybe the fresh fish was the scam we solved along the way. Do you know what I mean?

• 56:45Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 56:48Speaker 00

  No, explain it.

• 56:51Speaker 01

  Like, at the height of pandemic, when people were locked away or like trying to be good and staying home and, you know, like, sort of in their houses, all you wanted was for something to happen.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Like, something that made it feel like life was happening.

• 57:08Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  And I gotta say, as much as they got scammed out of money, like, life happened for these people.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, I guess that's the real question is like, in April of 2020, would you have paid, I don't know, $300 to have this story?

• 57:25Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe not that money.

• 57:31Speaker 00

  Tobin, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again. It was a joy to have you on.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Listen, I will come back whenever you send up the gossip bat signal.

• 57:43Speaker 04

  Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at [email protected], or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok @NormalGossip. You can follow Kelsey on all social media @McKinneyKelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex SuJong Laughlin, Ozzy Leena Skidman, and Jay Toll-Viera. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Alex SuJong

• 58:25Speaker 04

  Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Ley is our editor in chief. Abigail Segel is our intern. Dan McQuade runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandy Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Rado, David Roth, Catherine Xu, Jasper Wang, Israel Deramola, and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by

• 59:09Speaker 04

  Kelsey McKinney. I'm Tiffany, and remember, you did not hear this from me.