A Guncle’s Tale with Griff Stark Ennis

We brought Griff Stark-Ennis the story of a backyard wedding that no one, from the grooms to the guests, will ever forget. We are now on YouTube. Be sure to follow us on there at @DefectorMedia https://www.youtube.com/@DefectorMedia where you can watch today’s episode. Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buying merch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend at supportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page:https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oW8TmUsbcZhJTUQCw7m9XTNlYGNIdX4xyyBy3q3SMRo/edit?usp=sharing. Follow the show on Instagram@normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae https://www.instagram.com/heyydnae/?hl=en) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae https://www.instagram.com/seera_sharae/?hl=en) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Our audio engineer is Samantha Gattsek. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Theme music composed by Hrishikesh Hirway. Normal Gossip is a proud member ofRadiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. What? Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh wow. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. What? Oh my gosh. What?

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Hello and welcome to season 10 of Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. As you may know, this is our 10th season, our all-star season, which means you'll be seeing some old friends this summer, and we have got some incredible new guests that some of y'all have been requesting forever. And this season, we're doing something special. We are doing a video because we have decided to join the modern world. You're welcome. If you want to watch this episode, head on over to our YouTube page, just search Defector Media and it should pop up, and of course, we'll be linking in the show notes.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  But without further ado, I am so, so, so excited to introduce today's guest. When we started planning this season, we wanted to make sure we filled our roster with guests that we knew y'all would be pumped and jazzed for, and I think today's guest definitely fits the bill. Today, I am thrilled to be joined by none other than Griff Stark Ennis, co-host of the Petty Crimes Podcast. I did a guest spot on Petty Crimes back in May, which is when I confirmed what I long suspected, which is that the Venn diagram for the Petty Crimes Normal Gossip audience is just a circle, which is how I know today's episode is gonna absolutely whip. Griff doesn't just host Petty Crimes, which by the way, is a Webby Award nominated show, NBD. Griff is also an actor and model, AKA, he is professionally hot.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  We are so honored to be blessed by his presence. Griff, hello. Thank you so much for joining me.

• 1:49Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me in the Normal Gossip, what do you guys call this, like virtual space, like a gossip corner?

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Uh, the metaverse, I think is what they're calling it these days.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Whoa, okay, techy.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  I'm so honored that you're here. I had such a good time on Petty Crimes, and I don't know if- You know this, but our audience has been clamoring to have you on Normal Gossip for a hot minute now.

• 2:17Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  So you are hotly anticipated.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Okay, I feel like one of the like Akatar, uh, high phase, the like pining desperation is something that I'm, I'll, I'm here to quell.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Well, now that you're here in the Normal Gossip Metaverse, I have to ask you the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, what is your relationship to gossip?

• 2:41Speaker 02

  At the end of the day, it's just sharing stories. And I think it's really important to be sharing stories constantly, both for like learning purposes, entertainment purposes. I tend to be someone that people trust. And so a lot of people share things with me, like, you know, trivial things, I think meaningful things. You know, unless it's a danger to society. I'm really good at keeping secrets. I'm really more interested in absorbing information from people. It helps me get to know who they are, how they are, what they are. It's just storytelling. And if people feel some type of way about it, then maybe they hate stories.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  And you're right. Those are people who actually are anti-intellectual, people who hate gossip.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  You said it.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  I said it. But wait, do you consider gossip to be a petty crime?

• 3:29Speaker 02

  On our show, Kira specifically, I think my definition's a little bit looser, but Kira, my co-host, she writes at SNL. She's incredible, super funny. She doesn't consider something petty if the motive behind it isn't intended to be petty in that regard. If your uncle tells you a story and you accidentally slipped that story at the Thanksgiving table that next year, is it petty that that was an accident? She would argue no. For me, it depends on like the consequences it has, I guess.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I feel that. I think I've said on this podcast before that I consider gossip to be mostly a tool, almost like language in that it can be used for whatever purpose that you want it to be used, but inherently it's not one thing or another.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Wow, it's fluid.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  It's a spectrum.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  It is a spectrum. And you know what? We have to remind ourselves on our show, and sometimes we get crimes submitted that are a little bit more than petty. They're a little bit too intense or too dark.

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Petty by nature shouldn't really be that significant. And so I'm inclined to say that gossip is petty and petty is okay, which means that gossip is okay. That's called math.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  I love that. That's beautiful. Well, that makes me think of the story you're gonna share with me.

• 4:48Speaker 02

  Okay, so we have a segment on our show called Criminal or Minimal. So I'll start by saying, at the end of this, I need you to say if this is criminal or minimal.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  I live in Los Angeles. I moved here to be an actor. Things have changed a little bit, but especially back in the day, eight and a half years ago when I moved here, being a server at a restaurant was really great supplemental income and honestly a survival job for your pursuits in entertainment. So I've been in that industry for a long time. Now that, you know, our show's growing a little bit, I'm nearing the end of that chapter, which I'm so thankful for.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 5:18Speaker 02

  Hell, yeah, girl. Like, it's about fucking time. But I now currently work at a private members' club here in Los Angeles. It's pretty exclusive, Rachel. Like, we see a ton of people who you would for sure know, the person I'm about to talk about, I'll keep anonymous, but you would definitely know this person. So I've always watched this particular man, movies and TV shows, and then paired that with his interviews. And the characters that this person plays are extremely, like, quintessential straight man. I have a very hot take that I believe all people are queer. It is a spectrum. Where you fall on that is like, obviously yours to figure out and be true. And anywho, I've always thought, I think this actor is queer. He seems really familiar to me. I wonder

• 6:03Speaker 02

  if I'll ever, like, meet him or get a chance to, like, test it out.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  And again, this is like petty gossip. Nothing crazy happened. But what I did with it is what I need your ruling on. This person, turns out, is a member at the private club that I work at. And that's not identifying. We have, like, hundreds, if not thousands of members. About a year ago, he finally came into the club, and I saw him walk through the doors, and I was like, I'm gonna, like, see if I can- Hover around him and maybe just like pick up on vibes.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  And the host brings him right into my section at the table directly in front of me. I run into the bar and I'm like, oh my God, this person just sat in my section. I've always had this theory that blah, blah, blah, blah. And the bartender was a straight male and he goes, no way. And I was like, bet like, I don't know. Let me go suss it out. So I go up to the table. You know, I do my like usual, hi, welcome in. Can I get you started with any water, filtered house?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Bottled still.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  He looks up from his menu and just stares at me. The look that he was giving me felt like when I was in college and, you know, entering my queerness. And still to this day, when you go into a party and like some friend's husband is like assessing you or like some frat boy in college is just like assessing you. And it's like, that felt very familiar. It feels like he's seeing me and it's not, I'm not going around the, the club like duck walking and like, honey, honey, honey, like I'm queer, but I'm not like screaming it at the like top of the roof. You know what I mean?

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  But I could tell he's like, he sees me and he sees maybe my truth or something. It just felt like that. And I was like, okay, okay, whatever. I take their order. People tend to act a little bit more naturally after a few drinks. And so I was like, this is a good time to test, maybe like his performance as whatever he thinks he needs to be. And maybe after a few drinks, he'll be a little bit more natural. Three martinis later, he's just completely different. And I'm talking like pretty flamboyant. And I was just like, what an interesting swing from going to this very dapper like character to, to just this like, almost like this older queen. I concluded

• 8:13Speaker 02

  just from that and kind of how he was interacting and the people around his table, just kind of like also clocking the switch. I was just like, this man is fully queer. I've always had this theory. He's acting queer now. But like, what I need you to rule on criminal or minimal is me pedally going up to any of my straight actor friends who idolize certain figures and never watch any, you know, women created content or queer created content. And kind of like dismantling this like idolization of this guy by telling these like straight, white, male actor friends of mine that one of their idols is actually queer, based on just that. And Rachel, I mean, like, telling people.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Not criminal. I'm ruling. I have my gavel. Minimal. Not criminal at all.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  I feel like sometimes men who are mostly straight, maybe not entirely, focus so much on not being gay.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  That it like wraps back around to an obsession with not being gay. And it's like, homie, maybe you don't want to marry a man, but you might want to kiss one.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  And I feel like most women, or at least most of the women that I know are like, yeah, of course I'd kiss a woman. It's not that deep. It doesn't really change who I am as a person. It doesn't really impact my identity. But men make not being gay such a big part of their identity that it almost becomes gay. So I think getting more men to realize that being a little bit gay will not change their lives that much, especially in a city like LA.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  It's like you're in the Mecca. Just kiss a man. Just see what it's like. At least then you can actually make a judgment rather than being like, no, I'm straight and that's it. That's my straight voice. Did you like it?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  I liked it. It actually turned me on a little bit. We gotta, I'm gonna address that off air.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  It's like, oh.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Good boy vibes. But that's what it was. It was like you putting on that voice right then was very similar to like what the first interaction with this man was. It felt like he was kind of like putting on a voice and trying to just, I don't know, just really perform. And it's hard to tell with actors, right? Especially at that level because they're so talented. But just the swing between that to what it ended with was like, what character are you? I believe you're somewhere in the middle of this pendulum swing. But like, it's just been interesting experiencing that across, you know, two hours, that evolution. And, you know, I'm queer. I respect everyone's identity. I wouldn't.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  I guess typically never like out someone and I'm not doing it publicly. This is the closest I've ever gotten. I don't know. The petty part of me is just like these friends that I have. They also are so worried about like their masculinity that it sometimes prevents them from consuming other worlds or work that challenges that. And so when they're just like, oh, my holy grail is this person, this person and this person. And those people are all the same. I'm like, that's fine. That's who you connect with, but just know, one of those three people is gay.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Minimal. I feel so comfortable reeling on that. So minimal.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 11:17Speaker 01

  I don't even really feel like you're spreading something that, you know, the little whisper networks of LA don't already have going.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  Totally. I have the privilege of like, you know, running around LA, living my queer life, building out a career in entertainment as a queer person. I think anyone who has clocked in a little bit understands that even like 10 years ago, it was really hard to have that identity and make a business and public profile. I acknowledge my privilege. Nonetheless, it's a privilege to gossip and here I am.

• 11:46Speaker 01

  Well, that's actually kind of a perfect segue into the story that I have for you. Griff, are you ready? Are you ready for some gossip?

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Totally. I have pen and paper next to me just in case. I'm ready. Like, I don't remember names very easily, so here we go.

• 12:03Speaker 03

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• 12:33Speaker 01

  I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know. Shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow. They deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But uh, this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp and I had a vision in mind. Wayfair, they had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one and now I have one because of course Wayfair had it.

• 13:16Speaker 01

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• 13:34Speaker 04

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kinda just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 14:23Speaker 01

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• 14:55Speaker 01

  Today, we've got two friends of a friend. Their names are Jim and Carlos. And at the time that our story takes place, Jim and Carlos are in their early 30s.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  They've been married for just over three years. And they live in a big city in California where they own their own home.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Homeowner, anyone who can say that in like a big city in California. It's kind of like finger claps because that's fucking hard. So it's like, oh, good for you. Also, like, where'd you get the money?

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Well, this is actually really important because our story begins in 2020.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  And for Jim and Carlos, it's honestly a not very exciting year. Besides the impending sense of doom, their early pandemic life is actually pretty easy. I lived in New York for most of the pandemic. So I forget sometimes that if you lived in a house with a backyard and owned a car and worked from home, it was honestly pretty easy to social distance.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  I was in LA for quarantine and, you know, it was, it was not an ideal year for anyone in the world. But it was because of the space that we have and the weather and the access to, I think, nature. Like, yeah, to your point, it was much easier to quarantine. So that year was time back. And I think just as a country boy who enjoys silence in like a slower pace, who can fuck with that as much as they love a city, I was like, you know what? It could be worse.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Well, for Jim and Carlos, this era is defined by three things. The first is Tiger King.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Oh, God.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  The second is the very elaborate cheese plate that they started making during this era, which they still make to this day.

• 16:37Speaker 02

  Because they're gay.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And they have free time.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Gay plus free time equals charcuterie board? Is that how you say it?

• 16:43Speaker 01

  Yes, charcoochie board.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Charcoochie board.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  And the third thing that defines this era for Jim and Carlos is Lonnie. Lonnie is Jim and Carlos's neighbor. And before the pandemic, Jim and Carlos didn't actually really know that much about Lonnie. Like, they were always on good terms. Lonnie was always super chill to interact with whenever they were like coordinating maintenance for something like the shared pathway between their two houses. Lonnie would sign for Jim and Carlos's packages. Jim and Carlos would bring in Lonnie's trash of his so often because the one thing they absolutely know about Lonnie is that he is an older gentleman, like at least in his late 60s.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  So before March 2020, this is basically all Jim and Carlos know about their neighbor, that he is older than them, that he seems chill.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  Seems chill, famous last world.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  Well, this all changes one fateful night. It's like six weeks into lockdown. It's a Wednesday night. Jim and Carlos are enjoying their customary elaborate cheese plate outside with a bottle of wine. They've just popped the cork because it's a prosecco kind of night, you know? When across the fence, they spot Lonnie sitting by his pool with his own elaborate cheese plate and his own bottle of wine.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Okay, there seems, there's like one thing to do here.

• 18:10Speaker 01

  And from there, it's basically history. It helped that Jim and Carlos learn that night that Lonnie is also gay.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  Okay, I mean, come on.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  This is very exciting for Jim and Carlos. They're like, oh, my God, queer elder.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  So important, by the way, queer elders, like that little actor, not little, that big actor who I think is queer, not being queer is, there's a reason, like there's history that comes with what I'm doing today and the freedoms that I take advantage of. And so everyone needs a Lonnie in your life, especially if you're queer.

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, Lonnie is actually in his 70s, 75 to be exact. Lonnie is a retired museum curator and extremely cultured.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Like he has season tickets for the opera.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  And he always carries a paisley handkerchief. Like even when he's gardening, he'll use one to like wipe his brow.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Okay, you know that handkerchiefs back in the day in the queer world had different significance based on the colors, right?

• 19:10Speaker 01

  I did not know that.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Hold on, I'm gonna Google paisley handkerchief gay. Gay symbol.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  What does it mean?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Oh, girl. In LGBTQ plus history, always a mouthful, the paisley handkerchief itself isn't a standalone symbol, but rather the classic pattern used for the hanky code or flagging. This 1970s nonverbal communication system used colored bandanas, like I said, in back pockets to discreetly signal sexual preferences, kinks and desired roles. So I guess the paisley one's just kind of a like the neutral, I'm queer one.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, my God. Now you're adding context to the story. Well, would you befriend Lonnie? And how do you feel about befriending neighbors like in general?

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Quarantine was such a, I think pivotal moment for neighborliness. And that, you know, you were trapped in your apartment, not going to work. And so you turned to what made sense and what was technically close, which was your neighbors. And so I felt a shift in Los Angeles with that culture. So I'm very close with my neighbors downstairs across the hall. Yeah, it's like both for social reasons, but then also like, hey, I have to be out of town tonight. Do you mind coming over and like feeding the dog or the cats downstairs or water the plants? So it's like huge value and just such a sense of comfort to know your neighbors, to know thy neighbors. I would befriend Lonnie. You saw the cheese board in his yard. You look at the cheese board in your lap.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  I don't know that there's a more obvious signal to befriend someone than a mutual. Admiration of cheese boards.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  And I think you're right. And the thing is, you're agreeing with Jim and Carlos, who are feeling really good about this. They're like, wow, this is community. Look at our intergenerational friendship.

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Intergenerational friendship. I love that. Like, more of that. You know, there's always a consequence, too, of befriending anyone, really.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Well, about a year into this intergenerational friendship, as the world is starting to open up a little bit more, Lonnie tells Jim and Carlos that he wants to introduce them to his new boyfriend.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Oh, a new boyfriend at 75 years old. My heart.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos are thrilled with this development. Like, they love hanging out with Lonnie, but they also can't help noticing how much time Lonnie is spending by himself. Like, the world was opening up a little bit by 2021, but not necessarily for a 75-year-old like Lonnie.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  So Jim and Carlos have been worried about him. They don't want him to just be sitting alone in his house all day with no one to talk to but the pool boy.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Queer people at Lonnie's age, it just really, like, pulls my heartstrings. I can't, I can't.

• 21:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this boyfriend development is huge news. The news only gets bigger when a few nights later, Lonnie shows up to their now-standing wine and cheese Wednesdays with none other than the pool boy on his arm.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  The pool boy. How cliche, Lonnie.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  And listen, the pool boy is hot, really hot. He is very clearly in his 20s.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  That's a gag, though. I kind of was like, you know, there is a fairly predictable world in which this older man who has money and is established and, you know, maybe doesn't have as many environments to date, or, you know, he's definitely, I doubt, on the apps. Like, whoever comes into his orbit is going to be prime candidate for boyfriend. And it just so happens that this pool boy, by nature of his work, you know, was in Lonnie's life. And honestly, mutually beneficial.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And this gossip has a lot of characters that will show up later, so I'm not going to be giving the pool boy a name. He will be referred to as Lonnie's boyfriend. Friend from now on.

• 23:00Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  But just know that Lonnie's boyfriend is young and pretty. And most importantly for our story, Lonnie's boyfriend means really well. Like, yes, he has daddy issues, but who doesn't?

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Right?

• 23:14Speaker 01

  And Lonnie looks the happiest Jim and Carlos have ever seen him. So you're Jim and or Carlos. Are we happy for Lonnie?

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. I'm very happy that Lonnie has comfort and a person eye candy. I don't know if Lonnie is sexually active. If there are 75 year old queer men listening to this, let me know if you can still get it up. Like, maybe he's the bottom. I don't know. But like, I'm very happy, period.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos are like, who wouldn't fall in love with the pool boy? He's so hot. And honestly, the relationship seems really good for Lonnie. Like Jim and Carlos hear Lonnie laughing from across the fence more. They start seeing him on walks around the neighborhood, hand in hand with his boyfriend. When summer starts, the boyfriend even manages to get Lonnie riding a bicycle on Saturday mornings for his cardiovascular health. When the boyfriend moves in with Lonnie, less than two months into the relationship, Jim and Carlos are just like, you know what? Good for you, you crazy kids.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  Exactly. At two months is, you know, that in queer world, I don't know, maybe that makes sense. So also you're coming out of quarantine, so you're raw and like uncalibrated in general. So okay, as.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So everything's going really well, so well, that when Lonnie comes to Jim and Carlos in the spring of 2022, asking for a favor, they say yes, without even hearing what it is.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, no, no. Let's like be loving and open and flexible, but let's like, you know, collect details.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Well, before I tell you what the favor is, I need to ask, are you familiar with the term gunkle?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Yes, I have in my living room. I have a book called gunkle, actually. Identify as queer, who cares? I can be called gay, bi, whatever, just not straight. I technically would be a guncle and so I'm familiar with it. I am it. I don't know that I love the term guncle at my core. I'm just, I want to just be your uncle.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 02

  But it's also great for like a little kid to know that like their uncle is gay and that's built into that word. So complicated feelings with guncle.

• 25:23Speaker 01

  For the people at home, I feel like you basically described what it is, but what is a guncle?

• 25:28Speaker 02

  A guncle is a gay uncle. They've combined the words because we're all lazy these days. And with the label of guncle, I think comes certain expectations, which is why maybe I'm just like, I don't need the guncle label. I would just like to be uncle because guncle sometimes implies like, you're gonna come to Palm Springs and we're gonna have so much fun and dress in caftans and like, do this and do that and like pool parties and it's like, what if I just want to chill? But you're my guncle. You're supposed to be fun. It's like, girl, I can't be fun all the time.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  No one can be fun all the time.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  No one can.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  Well, you see, sweet Lonnie had never had any kids of his own, nor did he ever really want any. Or at least he always wanted an infinity pool more. And from what I understand, you cannot have children around infinity pools.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  You can't have both. Porque no los dos?

• 26:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  What this means is that Lonnie takes his responsibilities as guncle very seriously. One of Lonnie's many nieces and nephews is getting married in May of 2022. This nephew is named Peter and Peter also happens to be gay.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Peter and his fiancee Patrick have been putting off their wedding for over two years now. Like it was originally planned for April 2020 and well, we all know what happened.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Well, exactly. You still could have gotten married Peter and Patrick, but like you wanted the celebration. You're gay. You want it to be a fanfare. We get it.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  And now it's 2022 and Peter and Patrick don't even want a big wedding at this point. They just want like a small ceremony with their nearest and dearest. And they've asked Uncle Lonnie if they might be able to get married in his backyard, which is stunning. As we all know, it has a very well maintained pool. And Lonnie is a talented gardener. So the backyard basically feels like a garden of Eden. Lonnie, of course, says yes to his nephew immediately. Like even if he is telling Jim and Carlos about this, it is very clear that Lonnie is very moved by this request of his nephew. This is what being a guncle is all about. So Lonnie needs everything to be perfect.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  The plan Lonnie tells Jim and Carlos is for Peter and his fiancee Patrick to stay with Lonnie and his boyfriend, along with the groom's parents.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  But Lonnie wants to know, would it be possible for a couple of guests to stay with Jim and Carlos? It would just be Patrick's sister and her husband and an 80-year-old aunt. Now, Jim and Carlos do have the space, but everyone's getting into town a couple of days before the wedding. So this means at least three nights of having strangers as house guests. And of course, Jim and Carlos are invited to the wedding. So, you're Jim and or Carlos, would you agree to this?

• 28:19Speaker 02

  I think I would, actually. Like, it's gonna be a fairly heavy lift.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  It's definitely an inconvenience. I hear the three-day commitment of it all. I see the lift, but I'm actually okay with it, especially because we love Lonnie. He's enveloped us into his world and vice versa. Like, it does make sense because the wedding's being kept small and it's a backyard wedding and I'm for it.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Wow, some important information.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Like you're leading me into destruction. Like, I feel like you're tour guiding me, but you're like taking me around dark corners.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  What could you possibly mean by that?

• 28:56Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Some important information is that Jim and Carlos actually already have plans to visit Carlos's parents in LA until the day before the wedding. So while this means they would only have to deal with their guests for about 36 to 48 hours, it also means they would have strangers in their house unsupervised for about 36 to 48 hours.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  Does this new information change your mind?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Strangers is obviously the operative word. Like, I have a friend coming into town from Seattle in July and he may be, I'd have to ask my roommate, of course, be using my room while he's here, because like, I'm gonna be on the farm for the 4th of July and I won't be here. Because to my key, he's basically a stranger, my roommate. They've met a few times, so how does that feel for him? This is a case where these family members of Peter and Patrick are complete strangers to Jim and Carlos. And Jim and Carlos won't be there to play host for the whole time. So, I will say, absolutely, they can stay here. We'll be there for the first day, for the next, for the last two. They'll be solo. Lonnie, you're gonna have to be monitoring both properties. And obviously, it goes without saying, but in this case, you do need to say it.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Anything that happens to the house will be the responsibility of whomever did it.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  This actually feels like perfect happenstance for Jim and Carlos. So like, perfect. We only have to deal with them for like, a day and a half. So, they say yes to Lonnie, who is overjoyed. And then he's like, wait, one more thing, though.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Turns out Lonnie has already rented a bunch of chairs and tables for the backyard. And he would love to be able to borrow Jim's truck while Jim and Carlos are gone, so that he can pick everything up. It's too much to fit in his Prius.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  You can't fit shit in a Prius. You can't even fit one chair in a Prius.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. And Lonnie says, don't worry, I won't be driving the truck. My boyfriend will be. So you don't have to worry about a 75-year-old driving your pickup truck.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Okay, the truck of it all, Rachel. Oh my goodness, the asks just keep compiling. That's what happens with weddings and favors. It's like, logistically, there's a lot to take care of with the wedding. The favors keep compiling because the planners go into planning mode. In one world, borrowing Jim and Carlos's truck does make a lot of sense if they're not gonna be using it. But it's like... Y'all have already asked for a lot and you're mindful of that, right? Maybe not.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos are like, fine, we're not going to be using it anyway. So they go to LA, they're eating, they're drinking, they're dancing and catching up with family. And every so often they're getting updates from Lonnie, who texts like you would expect a 75 year old to text.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Got it.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  But it's fine, it's fine, because Lonnie manages to convey the necessary information. The guests have arrived, they settled in, everyone's having a great time. It's now the day before the wedding, the day that Jim and Carlos are flying home from LA. And the plan is to land with just enough time to change and go to the rehearsal dinner, which is also in Lonnie's backyard. So Jim and Carlos's flight goes smoothly. They're looking forward to a fun wedding weekend, sleeping in their own bed again. They turn their phones off airplane mode and they are immediately greeted by a series of missed calls from Lonnie and a bunch of voicemails.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Oh, jump scare.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos listen to the voicemails as they're taxing to the gate and it is immediately clear something has gone terribly wrong.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Like Lonnie is sobbing and begging them to call him back.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  He's barely coherent and he does not sound much better when Carlos calls while Jim gets their bags. Lonnie can barely speak, he's so upset. He just keeps apologizing and saying something about insurance. Finally, Carlos is just like, it's fine, don't worry, whatever happened, we'll figure it out. Just focus on your nephew, okay?

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Only because this happened to a family friend of ours upstate in upstate New York. And that's what first comes to mind when you say kind of tragedy and insurance. I'm going to guess flooding, because that's just like a lot. It's intense, it's also, it's just like the water of it all is just like, it sends you into a craze. Lonnie is like crying, so it's got to be something serious and like, hard to control, a flood in the house is like, I think, a really good, uh, potential, I don't know.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Jim and Carlos have a nice, long Uber back from the airport to just ruminate on what's awaiting them at home.

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• 34:35Speaker 01

  So apparently Lonnie's boyfriend was not around to drive the truck to pick up the table and chairs as planned.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Okay. Oh, no.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  He was working on a surprise for the grooms that took a little longer than he had anticipated. Jim and Carlos don't find this out until later. All they know when they get home from the airport is that for some reason Lonnie was the one driving the truck. So it was Lonnie who picked up the table and chairs and Lonnie who managed to get the truck onto the pathway between his house and Jim and Carlos's. And to Lonnie's credit, the unloading actually goes pretty smoothly.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:16Speaker 01

  It's when Lonnie is trying to back the truck out from between the houses that everything goes wrong. To this day, nobody knows exactly what happened. Like, not even Lonnie knows. All they know is that Lonnie somehow managed to not only back out into Jim and Carlos's front yard, destroying all their landscaping and flower beds and mangling their magnolia tree. Lonnie also somehow managed to crush the spigot for Jim and Carlos's water hose. Which caused a geyser of water to shoot up into the air. Lonnie, in his distress, was not able to find the valve to shut off the water.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  So it wasn't until his boyfriend got home an hour later that they found the shut off, which means that the broken spigot not only flooded the yard. It also flooded the sidewalk and the street. There is a retaining wall separating the yard from the sidewalk that Jim and Carlos can see is visibly bulging, which means the fix is gonna be thousands and thousands of dollars. And both the truck and their yard are an absolute fucking disaster.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Oh, girl, hold on, just cuz I did predict the flooding of it all.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  You said that and I was like, is he psychic?

• 36:38Speaker 02

  You picture worst case scenario, and I think I did myself justice in being like, what would like send Lonnie into complete hysteria? And there's something about like an uncontrolled amount of water that you you just don't know what to do with that like almost pairs well with the tears that come. It's like very beautiful.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Yes, it's just like it's the truck I forgot about. That was I should have my petty little brain should have seen that.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was a flood and you were right. So you just got back from LA. Your yard is ruined. There are at least three Midwestern people you don't know inside your house, including an 80 year old woman. What do you do?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  I take a walk around the cul-de-sac for a second, doing doing breath work.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Doing some deep diaphragmatic breaths.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  You know, there the benefit of this situation, which is actually kind of the also the detriment. There's so many people here. It's it's a little bit chaotic. You're planning for a wedding.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  But there's so many people here. You've got your partner, Jim or Carlos, depending on who I am. You just have to start delegating like the wedding. I think maybe should still happen, like have a certain amount of people, the bare minimum amount of people, figure that out. And then we need a few other people to help like, I guess, calm down what can be immediately fixed. And then table what can't, like the flooding damage. I don't really know much about floods. I'm not a fire person, but like get it as under control as you can.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Focus on what you can rectify right now. Do it with the manpower that you have and the woman power, and then have the wedding. I don't like, what else do you gotta do?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Carlos is like, I'm gonna have an aneurysm.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Right, right, right. You could also have an aneurysm.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Carlos is like, why was Lonnie driving? Meanwhile, Jim is just tallying up all the work that will need to be done. All the calls to insurance he's gonna need to make, all the calls to repair people he's gonna need to make, all the calls to his therapist, he's gonna need to make all the money this is gonna cost. And then Jim has to stop calculating because then he starts feeling like he might have an aneurysm too. Finally, they decide this is too much to think about, especially when there are strangers in their home. So they're like, let's just get through this wedding and then we'll figure everything else out later. The one thing they do both immediately agree on is that they are never doing a favor for Lonnie ever again.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Okay, maybe, maybe never a favor at this like magnitude. You know what I mean? We said it from the beginning, like it is a heavy lift. I, you know, dramatic to not say you're never gonna do a favor for Lonnie again, like homeboy is 75. So let's like, you know, I get that in the moment. That's what it feels like. I think Lonnie's probably cashed in his favor chips for a year with this, but like, you know, we'll circle back to a place of like peace at some point.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  We'll circle back in 2024.

• 39:27Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  So Jim and Carlos, they get showered and dressed. They walk across their muddy fucked up yard to Lonnie's house for the rehearsal dinner, which is as promised, small and cozy. The table and chairs actually look really good. So, you know, at least it was all worth it.

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  And Lonnie immediately corners Jim and Carlos to apologize again. And Jim and Carlos can immediately tell that Lonnie is going through it. Like this is the oldest they have ever seen Lonnie look. He is clearly trying to put on a brave face, but he's leaning on his boyfriend for support. He doesn't even have his paisley pocket square and his suit jacket. Lonnie keeps saying everything is a disaster.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:09Speaker 01

  And he's being like way more twitchy and type A than usual. Like even though everything looks perfect, Lonnie keeps adjusting like flower arrangements and champagne glasses.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  His eyes even filled with tears as his boyfriend apologized to Jim and Carlos for not being there to drive the truck. Lonnie's boyfriend explains about the surprise for the grooms and then he and Lonnie both promised that they will help Jim and Carlos fix their yard. Lonnie's boyfriend even offers to wash the truck the very next morning. Is this enough to make you forgive and forget?

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Uh, it's enough to let me forgive it. I'm not gonna forget this. How like none of, no one, including all of your listeners, we're never gonna forget the story. This is so, it's just wild. It, it, but you, you have, you have to forgive. I'm like stuttering. Like you have to forgive and get past this. Like this will all be solved. There is a world in which for the next few months, Jim, Carlos, Lonnie, pool boy, they just, instead of the like Wednesday wine and cheese nights, they have like Wednesday yard work nights, you know? And so.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  It's not fucking ideal at all, but it's, it's not the end of the world.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Well, right at this moment, Peter and Patrick are grooms into the rehearsal dinner. They stop to thank Lonnie first and assure him that everything looks perfect. And then they introduce themselves to Jim and Carlos. And to everyone's surprise, given the events of the day, Peter and Patrick and Jim and Carlos hit it off immediately. So things are looking up for Jim and Carlos. They're like, at least our yard was not ruined for a bunch of losers, you know?

• 41:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  And things start looking up even more after dinner and drinks when everyone is encouraged to get into Lonnie's pool. But then at some point around nine PM, the music suddenly stops. Lonnie's boyfriend emerges wearing a long feathered robe with a microphone in his hand. Attention ladies and gentlemen, he says. It's time for the party to get started.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  This is when Jim and Carlos learn just what Lonnie's boyfriend was up to while Lonnie was ruining their yard. Um, you see.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Lonnie's boyfriend had secretly booked three of the city's top drag queens to do a secret performance just for Peter and Patrick. Like, one of the queens had even been on Drag Race.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Oh, work.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Peter and Patrick are thrilled. Kylie Minogue is pumping.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  I thought you were gonna say she's there. I was like, whoa.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  Can you imagine?

• 42:44Speaker 02

  Everything's forgiven. Everything is forgiven.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  I would forgive anyone if they brought Kylie Minogue to my home.

• 42:51Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos tip the queens and they head back home to, they love a drag performance, but it has been the longest day of their life.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  So Jim and Carlos spend most of the next day on the phone with various insurance companies trying to figure out who and how and where to file claims.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  And around 5:00 PM, they head back over to Lonnie's for the wedding. The grooms have written their own vows. Everything goes perfectly. And Lonnie honestly looks a lot less stressed after a night of sleep.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  After the ceremony, there are cocktails and then dinner and then more dancing. And by midnight, most of the older guests have left. So it's just like the immediate family and the young adults who are still dancing. Lonnie is splashed out for an open bar. So everyone's feeling really good, especially Jim and Carlos, who started drinking while they were on the phone with the insurance companies, because they're like, this is the only way to get through this day.

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Jim is dancing with Carlos. Carly's War and Blood is playing. When Carlos feels a hand on his ass.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  And he can see Jim's hands right in front of him.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Carlos turns around to see Peter, one of the grooms, standing there, looking just a little mischievous.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 44:04Speaker 01

  And a whole lot drunk.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Peter, on your wedding day, my god. Kris Jenner works fast. The gays work faster, honey.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  Jim and Carlos dance away. They're whispering about what just happened. Like, did that really just happen?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  Like, they dance away from them?

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. They're just like, exactly like that. Literally.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  They're like, did that really happen? And right as they decided that it really did happen, Peter and Patrick dance right up to them. And Patrick does that thing drunk people do where he thinks he's whispering, but he's definitely yelling. Patrick's like, we saw you from across the bar and really liked your vibe. Or like, that's basically what he says.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Patrick says that he and Peter think Jim and Carlos are super hot. And that he thinks all four of them should go back to Jim and Carlos's house for a drink. It's his and Peter's last night in the city. And what happens in the city stays in the city.

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Stays in the city.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  Griff, are you down to clown?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  The answer is yes, like, you know, we're queer people, open relationships are very prevalent in our community. They're not for everyone, but they're for a lot of people. And I don't know, this is a night for fun. Also, Jim and Carlos have been through the fucking wringer with this. Their generosity needs to be rewarded. And honey, I know how I need to be rewarded in certain situations. So the answer is a capitalized yes.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, Jim and Carlos are like.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Rachel!

• 45:33Speaker 01

  I know. They're like, we're at your wedding. It's probably not a great idea. And also, your 80-year-old aunt is staying at our house.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  She can't hear.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  So Peter and Patrick just kind of shrug and dance away. About an hour later, Jim and Carlos decide to head home. It's almost 2:00 a.m. The house is quiet. All their guests have long since gone to bed. So Jim and Carlos are in the kitchen, just chugging water and debriefing the night, when they hear a soft knock on the back door.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Wow, wow, persistent.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Standing outside, so clearly delighted with themselves, is Peter and Patrick. Peter and Patrick explain that they pretended to go to bed in Lonnie's house and then snuck out once they saw the light on in Jim and Carlos's kitchen. And now here they are. And when Jim and Carlos like a nightcap? And they've also stolen a bottle of Macallan 25 from Lonnie's bar.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Work!

• 46:29Speaker 01

  And for those who don't know, that is a $4,000 bottle of whiskey.

• 46:34Speaker 02

  That's a little too much to steal, Peter and Patrick. Let's like, maybe sell that bottle to help with the yard work for Jim and Carlos. Just, but they're drunk, they're not clocking that, but we are.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  So, do you have a nightcap?

• 46:51Speaker 02

  It's funny because like, you know, first of all, no means no, right? Let's make sure everyone knows that. But this is a wedding. They're knocking on the door. It's I don't find it to be that like intrusive or like aggressive. It's kind of just like a, we asked once, that was then, we danced away, we didn't pressure you. Now we're here with a bottle. I'm just asking for a nightcap. We're not like.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Just a nightcap.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, just a nightcap. What could that lead to?

• 47:15Speaker 01

  What could that possibly mean? Who knows?

• 47:18Speaker 02

  At this point, it's just like having like DoorDash, you know? It's like, it's so conveniently delivered to your door. It's like, why not have a little, have a few fries?

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Honestly, Jim and Carlos are in the exact same spot. At this point, they're like, you know what? Fuck it. We ball.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Yep. We ball.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  They bring Peter and Patrick down to the basement so they don't disturb any of the house guests. They break open the McAllen.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  One thing leads to another. And honestly, there is no point in being delicate on this podcast. These four commence to fucking. Carlos and Jim and Peter and Patrick have, and I quote, an extremely hot four way.

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  At 5:00 AM, Peter and Patrick sneak back out of the house. Jim and Carlos crash into bed and pass out. And after the longest day of their life, they sleep in the next day and miss all the post wedding drama. Apparently Peter's mom was already up and making coffee when Peter and Patrick tried to sneak back into Lonnie's house. And you know, a mother always knows.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  I guess, also, I'm an adult ma, so like, let's, let's just like, continue making coffee.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  Patrick's mom grilled them about where they had been, why they were still dressed in their wedding suits. And Peter and Patrick were too drunk and quite frankly, too well fucked to come up with a lie. So by the time Jim and Carlos do wake up, everyone who was at the wedding knows about their foursome.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Yes, uh, yep, that's, that's expected.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  How would you feel if you were Lonnie and you learned that your neighbor friends hooked up with your nephew and his new husband on their wedding night?

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I'm so sorry, but if I were Lonnie, I would have zero judgment to pass around at this point. So I would, I would keep my thoughts to myself. I'd be intrigued and maybe be asking for details about the encounter. It sounds like it was a very hot and spicy one. But I'd also look at the yard outside of Jim and Carlos and say, you know what, I'm gonna let people do what they want to do because I did what I wanted to do. And sometimes it gets messy.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  I thought Lonnie was gonna be pretty chill about this. Like, a wedding night hookup is definitely unconventional, but it's for consenting adults and no one was woken up. Lonnie, though, does not agree. He sits Jim and Carlos and Peter and Patrick down for a lecture and tells them they all completely undermined everything he was trying to do with the wedding.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  What?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Lonnie said that back in his day, you'd go to several pool parties before doing a four-way, and that his own queer elders taught him how things were done. But clearly, that message has not reached the younger generation. Now people get freaky at the job of a hat with no respect for the sanctity of a wedding day or the vicinity of an 80-year-old aunt. Lonnie isn't mad, he's just disappointed. He expected his nephew and Jim and Carlos, who he considered to be like his nephews, to have better judgment. And in fact, Jim and Carlos know that to this day, Lonnie remains not mad about the wedding night foursome.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  Right. And I'm, don't worry, I'm not mad.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  And that is basically the end of our story. I do have some updates, but before I get to them, I did want to actually steal a bit from your show, Petty Crimes. So we're gonna play a little bit of Criminal or Minimal, based on the story that I just told you. Criminal or Minimal: Moving the 20-something hot pool boy into your house after two months of dating.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  It's a good one. You know, I see Lonnie's 75 years of age, and I'm trying to make an appropriate ratio between the two months of dating and, not to be morbid, but the time he has left on this earth.

• 51:00Speaker 01

  Listen.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  And I'm like, I'm saying minimal because Lonnie deserves that fun. And I think expediting certain relationships like that, I think is totally fair, given his age and like, you know, his, uh, his time with us. It's crazy to say.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so minimal. All right.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Criminal or minimal? Allowing your 70-year-old neighbor to use your house as an Airbnb.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Rachel, I'm in a pickle here.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Just the responsible part of me is gonna say criminal.

• 51:36Speaker 01

  Criminal or minimal? Having a foursome with the grooms on the night of their wedding.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  That is the juiciest criminal or minimal I've heard in a while.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  Oh, love that.

• 51:49Speaker 02

  You know, though, in our story, those grooms initiated it, right? It would have been a completely different story if Jim and Carlos were like, "Oh, my God, this is crazy. We deserve a little... Yeah, should we? Okay." And they walk up to them and propose that.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Peter and Patrick, newly married, within the last few hours, came to Jim and Carlos.

• 52:08Speaker 01

  It's not even dry on the wedding certificate.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  Not even dry. It's smeared. And like, I think, I think minimal. The, the couple who I think would have the most sensitivity with this criminal or minimal was the one who initiated. Jim and Carlos, obviously, as we heard, capitalized on that night. I'm trying to put myself as a single person at a queer wedding where, I mean, rightfully so, if they're not blind, I'd be propositioned to hook up with a couple. And depending on my relationship to them, I probably would just do it for the story, which is exactly what these two did for us.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  And then they sent it into normal gossip, which is what everyone listening to this show should be doing. Do it for the bit and then send it to me. Well, the updates are, the day after the wedding, Jim and Carlos wake up with scratchy throats. And they both just assume that they partied a little too hard over the weekend.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  It's chlamydia.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Well, Carlos's mom texts from LA with a picture of a positive COVID test. Jim and Carlos.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Test themselves and sure enough, they are positive. And over the course of the next week, Peter, Patrick, Lonnie, Lonnie's boyfriend, Patrick's sister and her husband all come down with COVID. So not only did Jim and Carlos fuck Peter and Patrick on their wedding night, they were also responsible for turning their wedding into a super spreader event. Luckily, everyone, including Lonnie, had a relatively mild case, like no one is hospitalized.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Oh, that's good to highlight.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  Yup.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Once Lonnie fully recovers and is back to gardening and biking, Jim and Carlos kind of consider the score between themselves and Lonnie to be even.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  And then one final update.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:55Speaker 01

  A few months ago, Peter and Patrick finally left the Midwest. They moved to the big city to spend more time with their beloved guncle Lonnie, and even moved into the same neighborhood as Lonnie and Jim and Carlos. And since they moved, Peter and Patrick have reached out to Jim and Carlos several times to set up a little get together. But thus far, Jim and Carlos have found every possible excuse to avoid them.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  And that is the end of our story. Do you think Jim and Carlos should let bygones be bygones and fuck Peter and Patrick again?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  You know, like I said, open relationships aren't for everyone. Maybe Jim and Carlos, just that night, given that they were asked once and then the second time they were literally at their door. Maybe it's just not part of their, like, their relationship setup, right? Like, we'd have to hear from them. Maybe it was truly like a treat yourself one-off thing. But I don't know, maybe like work towards it, but also I don't want to pressure a couple. Run it back. If it's not your thing, if hooking up outside of a relationship is not your thing, don't do it. But like, you know, keep a little like sticky note on the fridge that just says like, Peter and Patrick, you know what I mean?

• 55:00Speaker 01

  Question mark, question mark.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  You know, it would be cute to like have like a sticky note or something on the fridge that like you both can kind of look at. And then whenever one of you is kind of ready to maybe start exploring it, you like flip it upside down or something. And that like initiates the conversation.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  That's kind of hot.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 55:20Speaker 02

  But, you know, I'll, I'll leave them to make their own decision. Like their journey is their own. Obviously, these two hotties are down the street. They're there, I guess, whenever they'd need them. So you do you boo-boos.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at [email protected], or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip. You can follow me on all social media at Hayden A. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at Defector Media to watch today's episode. Normal Gossip is written by me, Rachel Hampton, and Jay Tolviera. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Ricks and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatzic. Emily Cherish is our video editor.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Theme music composed by Rishi Kesh Hirway. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Kelsey McKinney and Defector's supervising producer, Alex SuJong Loughlin. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang is Defector's business guy. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. This season was made in memory of Dan McLeod, who ran our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandy Jensen, David Roth, Catherine Shue, Sabrina Embler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help with this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I am your host, Rachel Hampton, and remember, you didn't hear this from me.