Bonus Episode: Try Hard with Erika Casupanan

Today, we’re bringing you an episode of Try Hard https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/try-hard/id1824016771,a new podcast hosted and produced by one of our very own dowager queens of gossip, Alex Sujong Laughlin. This episode is the second episode of the season, and it features a familiar face, Erika Casupanan, the winner of the 41st season of Survivor, and a guest from the fifth season of Normal Gossip. Erika spent her life being the person she thought she "should" be. It turns out that doing her own thing doesn't rock the world the way she thinks it will. It's actually pretty cool. Check out Erika's podcast, Happy to See Me https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/happy-to-see-me-with-erika-casupanan/id1667189595. Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kj_SQL8lHAvAaRdfu0ozksCgMBNo5MPvJvoCd-65Tvs/edit?usp=sharing. Send me voice memos about the things YOU'RE trying at [email protected] mailto:[email protected], or you can message me or tag me on Instagram @alexlaughs https://podcasts.dovetail.prx.org/episodes/495c4b03-c333-418a-a000-d0e256c06cc1/%20https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/%20. Try Hard is hosted and produced by Alex Sujong Laughlin. Editorial and production support from Audrey Mardavich, Tom Ley, and Jae Towle Vieira. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Mixing by Samantha Gattsek. Our show art is by Lille Allen and our theme song is "Photo Booth" by Avery Friedman. Try Hard is a proud member of Radiotopia. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:06Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Anthon, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. And today's morsel of gossip actually isn't so anonymous. In fact, I know exactly where it came from, because it came from me. Well, me and the rest of the Normal Gossip team, we have finally got a start date for the premiere of season nine. But before I give you the gossip, I know I'm so sorry, that was so mean. But before I give you the gossip, I wanted to tell you a little bit about the rest of this episode, because, surprise, surprise, it actually won't take me 30-plus minutes to tell you

• 0:47Speaker 00

  when season nine starts. Today, I'm so excited to bring you an episode of Try Hard, a new podcast that is hosted and produced by none other than dowager queen of gossip herself, Alex Sujong Loflin. If you listened to the July bonus episode titled "A Beautiful Aura Bora's of Gossip," you'll have heard Alex tell us all about Try Hard, which premiered on July 28. The episode you're about to hear is the second episode of the season, and it features a familiar face, Erika Casupanan, the winner of the 41st season of Survivor, and a guest from the fifth season of Normal Gossip. In this episode of Try Hard, Alex helps Erica get over her fear of singing in public. It's a great episode, and Erica

• 1:28Speaker 00

  really goes for it in a way that should inspire all aspiring tryhards. Oh, and season nine of Normal Gossip premieres November 12. That is right, it will be running through the holiday season. Hopefully, it'll make your in-laws more bearable. Without further ado, here's Try Hard.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  How do you know when you're good at something? I think for a lot of people, myself included, it's when you're told that you're good at it. When people see something in you that maybe you were hoping they would see. External validation is delicious, and maybe even a little addictive, I'll admit it. But when you're a tryhard like me, the desire to be good at something, or even just seen as good at something, can hold you back from trying new things. Especially once you've grown up and you're just flailing around in the real world.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  People aren't gonna just stand around to tell you you've done a good job anymore.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  As much as you want to get an A in hobbies or at work, and believe me, I do, it's not actually possible to do that. So why even try?

• 2:47Speaker 00

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kind of just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  Book your first session in minutes and you can start in as little as two days. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com/gossip to get started today. That is growtherapy.com/gossip. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow.

• 4:17Speaker 00

  They deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp. And I had a vision in mind. Wayfair, they had exactly what I need, which is one of those library style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one. And now I have one because of course Wayfair had it. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high quality, customer trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without distress. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W A Y F A I R dot com.

• 5:04Speaker 02

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• 5:37Speaker 01

  Welcome back to Try Hard. I'm Alex Sujong Lafflin. In every episode, I talk to someone about something they've always wanted to do, but haven't yet. First, we dig into why they want to do it and what's been getting in the way. Then we set a challenge for them to work toward. They spend a few weeks prepping and then we check in afterward to see how it goes. This week's guest loves singing, but has always stayed far away from one of my favorite things ever, karaoke.

• 6:08Speaker 03

  My name is Erica Casupanan and I'm a tryhard.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Erica is a keynote speaker, media personality, and the host of the Happy to See Me podcast. She's also notably the winner of Survivor 41.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  So when I was a kid, actually, when people would ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I was always like, I'm going to be a rock star.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  No really understanding of what that meant, but I just always thought I needed to be a rock star. And then when I went to high school, I was part of the church choir, so I was in Catholic school. And I would describe myself as an extremely mediocre member of the choir. I always felt like I had some natural ability, I would say some natural ability. But then I just was never one of the students who got the attention of the music teachers to really invest in my skills. And I never really got to have a solo. I always was just there, I showed up, I worked hard, I had a great attitude, but I was always just one of the many mediocre members of the choir.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  What part did you sing? Are you an alto or a soprano?

• 7:14Speaker 03

  I'm an alto.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Oh, the unsung heroes of the choir.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  I know, I know. I think people are surprised because I think that my talking voice is higher, but singing, I am an alto. My, my dream is to be a mezzo soprano. I'm going to put being a soprano on my vision board.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  I love this for you. I love this for you.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  So then when I became an adult and I moved to the city, I finally started taking singing lessons on my own. But I never told anyone. I think I told one, maybe two friends. And even I think I was living with a roommate and I would just like get up and leave and like go to my singing lessons and just like come home and pretend like nothing ever happened. And I had a teacher who I got along really well with. And I love, love, loved taking these singing lessons. And I thought that, oh my gosh, there was finally potential in this skill that I always wanted to develop. And maybe I get to actually develop it. But then unfortunately, like many people who moved to the city and work in marketing communications and are in their early twenties, I had an income that was like $37,000 a year.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  And I realized taking singing lessons just didn't work in the budget. So I actually had to quit after a few months because I couldn't afford them. And then I didn't really sing a lot after that.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  My god, heartbreaking.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  When you said that you wanted to be a rock star, what did that mean to you? Because obviously you didn't know exactly what that meant. So what did it mean to like your childhood self?

• 8:46Speaker 03

  I think that in my mind, it meant that I could live based on being me and expressing myself, which is kind of funny because now as I'm an adult and I work as a keynote speaker, as a host, as a podcaster, that is what I'm doing. It's just not in the singing way. But as a kid, I think I always really felt comfortable with the idea of being seen and showing up as me and expressing myself.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's this like validation that you crave as a child. And it seems like the people we give it to most readily are entertainers.

• 9:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Actresses, singers, dancers, now, you know, influencers. And I think it makes sense that that's the thing that so many children kind of lock their eyes on as like, this is the goal because it's, it's not quite that they want to be doing that thing, but it's that they want to be seen. And it's like a spiritual thing almost.

• 9:43Speaker 03

  But I feel like as kids, we really want to be seen. But then something happens to us in adolescence where we feel like it's safer to not be seen, right? And it's safer to hide and to blend in. I know that that's something that I definitely have experienced. And I think also after being on reality TV, like the idea of being seen has changed for me a lot, too.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, was there a point that you remember in your adolescence when you switched from like, I'm a ham, I must show off, I want to be myself in front of everybody to like, oh, my god, nobody look at me? Because I remember that moment for myself.

• 10:18Speaker 03

  Ooh, okay, wait, what was your specific moment?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Well, so, okay, so it wasn't like a moment moment, but it was like sometime in seventh grade. My family moved around a lot. And so in seventh grade, we moved from Kansas to Washington State. And I suddenly, like, I had been very confident before. And it was a combination of, you know, I had just gotten my period, I was going through puberty and... My anxiety was raging and unmedicated. And suddenly I was like, I'm afraid to speak, let alone like perform onstage in front of people. That was mortifying all of a sudden.

• 10:59Speaker 03

  Hmm. Oh, yeah. So it's like that moment, it's like the moment we can see ourselves in the mirror for the first time.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. But I remember actually, my elementary school was doing a musical. They were doing The Wizard of Oz. And I was like, oh, my God, this is the first time I can audition for something. And I would always sing to myself in my room and everything. And I was like, yeah, I think I've like got it. And I sang No More Drama by Mary J. Blige.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  And I remember, you know, teachers were watching me sing and they would like nudge each other. And I'm like, oh, my God, I think I'm good. I think I'm good. And then I didn't get like what I consider a real part. I think that the part I got was being, um, uh, when they go to the Emerald City and there's the guards. And I think I was one of the guards with this, with one speaking line. And I was like, oh, I thought I was good. And then now I'm just a guard. So this was a thing that I thought I could do. And I feel like the realism of like not getting chosen has affected me. And I think that that really, since then, like affected my ability to, yeah, like, me showing up as myself and making my choices and like realizing that like they're not going to be validated by other people all the time.

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  They missed out.

• 12:13Speaker 01

  That's, that makes me so sad.

• 12:16Speaker 03

  But it happens to so many people. Yeah. Well, I mean, showbiz is getting rejected, right? Even if you're not a performer, like an actor, singer, or dancer, we're getting rejected all the time. So I think I had to learn, we all just had to learn how to do it. But I guess nothing, nothing stings quite like the first one.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  So going back to that time in middle school, when you kind of shrank back inside of yourself, how long do you think you stayed that way? And how do you think that affected how you turned out?

• 12:47Speaker 03

  Ooh, it's hard to pick like a specific moment, right? Because I think we all go through those feelings where we're always in awakening, getting to know our better selves, getting to be a lot more confident. And I think that I definitely did a lot of things growing up that suggested a lot of confidence. Like, I was a real high achiever, and I think that I really believed in myself. But I think as I got older, And especially as I went through my twenties and my late twenties, realizing that there were so many things that I was doing to meet certain expectations, whether they're expectations I put on myself or expectations that I kind of just absorbed from other people and started to put on myself.

• 13:31Speaker 03

  And then I was slowly trying to get rid of all of those things. Like, I think about the me who was taking the singing lessons in my early twenties. And I had long hair that was my natural color. I had these straight across bangs. I kept them because everybody told me that they liked my hair. So I was like, okay, this is how I should look. I would often go to my job where I didn't even like my job that much. I didn't even know why I was working in PR. I just like fell into it and was good at it, so I kept going. So I would do this job and then I would go to the gym because I just was like, oh, my God, I need to like be super skinny and like lose weight, which is also one of those things I look back and like, why did I think that? I was just like, normal, why did I think that?

• 14:17Speaker 03

  So I would work hard and then go to the gym and work so hard. And then I would go to these singing lessons in my gym clothes, long hair, whatever. And in those singing lessons, I'd have a moment where I'm like, okay, right now I feel like I'm cool and I'm, I'm like me. And then it's kind of funny now revisiting singing lessons again and seeing how much that I had changed. But I think if I had to think of a moment where I realized that all of those expectations I had on myself didn't need to matter and I could show up in the way that I want. It was around 2017. I had decided I was gonna leave the job that I had been in for, I think, five years. And right before I quit that job, I actually cut off 10 inches of my hair

• 15:01Speaker 03

  and I donated it to one of those charities for people who have cancer. And then I added purple streaks to my hair and just like walked into the office of my job. And I thought the, the world was gonna like explode. I thought that I was not allowed to have that type of hair. And it turned out everyone was like, wow, that's really cool. And like, oh, my God, wait, I was like, wait, what? I could just do the thing that I always wanted to do and it was totally fine. So I think that, I know that, you know, i- if anyone is listening and they don't know what I look like, I have purple hair that's in this little bob I've had here like this for years. It's kind of like a, a way that I'm easily recognizable. And part of the reason I keep it because I feel like it's one of the things that I did

• 15:43Speaker 03

  that was purely for me that probably doesn't seem logical that, you know, I would always get the slap on the wrist for thinking about wanting to look different, especially being a Filipino immigrant. And I did it and everything was like totally fine. And for me, it's kind of like a symbol to me that my instinct and what I want to do is fine and should be seen. And actually, people are cool with it. And also, if people aren't cool with it, that's okay, too. So yeah, it is was nice to revisit singing now being this version of me.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah, because so much in your life has changed since then. Like, you went on Survivor. You won Survivor.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  Legend. You have like built this whole career as a podcast host and a speaker. And you came out and like, what am I missing anything like?

• 16:35Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. I feel like those are like the big publicly ones. But even just like in my own life, like, there's just been so many changes, like relationships shifting, moving, like, I live, I moved into a place of my own for the first time ever. And that changed so much because I was, I was like, a kid who grew up in like, a really strict household, big family, always people around. And then now I get to like, be in a place that's just mine. I'm like, wow, this is what it's like to have space and to just breathe. So I feel like even on a personal level, I've changed so much, too.

• 17:11Speaker 01

  After the break, it's challenge day. Erica finally does karaoke.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Hey, if you are feeling the try hard spirit listening to this, I want to hear from you. If you're trying something new, send me a voice memo about it at [email protected]. Or you can tag me in your stories or posts on Instagram, at Alex Laughs.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  So tell me about your lessons.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I, okay, so to backtrack, when I took singing lessons years ago, I really got along so well with my teacher. I felt like she was just so patient and kind, but I could not find her anywhere. In the singing school that I went to previously, it had closed during COVID. So I was like, okay, can't go back there. And I also know that there's a short timeline to do this project. So I just talked to someone, got one recommendation. I'm like, good enough for me. And I went to this music school. And I think the day after we had our first conversation, I was in my first singing lesson. I was like, okay, let's do this.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you sent me a video from that and you were like, I talked to you yesterday. I talked to the school today. My first lesson's tomorrow.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  This is either gonna be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever. I both love and hate that I'm impulsive and I must grow and challenge myself all the time. But yeah, if you had told me this time yesterday that on Thursday, I'm gonna be going to a private singing lesson, I wouldn't have believed you. So yeah, life is weird.

• 19:20Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 19:21Speaker 03

  I was like, you know, if we're gonna do it, we're just gonna go hard. I think that that's always been consistent about my personality since I was a kid. I'm like, I'm just gonna go for it.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's real try hard energy there.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  I'm such a try hard. So I did five weeks of singing lessons. And the first lesson, the instructor told me, okay, we're just gonna talk. You're only gonna sing for like two minutes at the end. This was just talking about the music theory. And I'm like, okay. But I remember leaving that lesson and I was like, oh my God. We mostly just talked and I only sang for two minutes. How am I supposed to be ready in five weeks? So I'm freaking out a little bit. And then the next week I go for my lessons. So this is the first lesson where I'm singing the full time. And like that first lesson, obviously, the singing instructor has so much to say about my breathing and about resonance and about all sorts of stuff.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  And I'm leaving that lesson and I'm like, Okay, I just finished my week two lessons and I I hated it. I really hated it. It was really overwhelming, honestly. There's just like a lot that's beyond what I learned before where it's like thinking about breathing and placement. And it just like the approach is so different from how I've done it before. So yeah, I feel like overwhelmed and frustrated and I hated it. And I don't know what I'm even practicing. I'm just gonna practice like singing. There's just like, yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 03

  Okay, I guess I'm just gonna go home and practice. Okay, bye.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  Was any of it coming back to you?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, I think that for me, so in the very first lesson, the instructor would play notes on the piano and ask me to sing the same note. So she did a few and she's like, you can do it. I was like, really? She's like, yeah, you can hear the note and you're actually singing the same one. I was like, oh, my God. Okay, this is like amazing. I was like, wow, cool.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  And just to say like, this is all working toward a challenge where you're going to sing a song at karaoke.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. So when it comes to karaoke, I've always loved karaoke and like private karaoke room. It is on, I am good. People would ask me, what's your karaoke song? And I was like, just put it, put it on shuffle and I will sing any song. That is totally fine.

• 21:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 21:48Speaker 03

  But I know that when you and I were talking, you had asked how I felt about public karaoke. And I was like, oh, my God, I used to love public karaoke. I would, again, same thing, put it on shuffle, I'll sing any song. Cause I was like, whatever, you just go up, you sing the song, you sit down, you go back and drink your beer and nobody cares. But then, to be honest, I haven't done public karaoke since winning Survivor. Because I no longer felt like I was an anonymous person. And I think this is one of those things where we're talking about being seen and, you know, as a kid, wanting to be seen and then going back to not wanting it and then wanting it and going back. And I think that Now I have an interesting relationship with being seen since being on the show.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Because there's no paparazzi following me. I can go to the grocery store totally fine.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Survivor celebrity is like a very specific kind where people who know you fucking know you.

• 22:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  And then people who don't, don't.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  Yes, exactly, exactly. And I, I think that a thing that I didn't really anticipate what life was going to be like, no longer being anonymous. And after the show, and even now, it's been like four years since I've been on the show. I have people who still come up and talk to me like at least once a week. They'll come up, say they recognize me from the show. Always such a nice interaction. Ninety-five percent of the fans I've talked to have been so, so, so sweet. But I think that I, it kind of got built into my brain that I'm always potentially being perceived. So I have to really be mindful about what I do in public because like anybody could see me, anyone could notice me.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  And I also had the experience, like anyone who's been on reality TV of just like having people talk about you on the internet at scale. And I don't care what anybody says. There's so many people who are like, oh, I have a thick skin. It doesn't bother me. I'm like, no, no, no. I think it bothers everybody. Okay? There's still this sting of seeing people talk about you online. So I think knowing I'm, I'm gonna always be recognizable to some people and knowing what it's like for people to talk about me. I think that I always became really conscious of who saw me. And then I also created this fear in my head that if I was to ever do, do public karaoke, then someone would like recognize me from Survivor and like film a video of me and like post it on TikTok.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Because honestly, that's like not even far from reality. I've had people like film me in public and I didn't realize and it ends up on the internet.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. So you had like, you had done all of this work to sort of arrive into the world. And I feel like going on Survivor, winning Survivor and like this whole career shift you've made. Was like, it was the, the top of the arc of, of this evolution that you were on. And then you get smacked with this like new level of scrutiny that kind of forces you back into a cautious place.

• 24:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Which is like something that I would never expect, but it totally makes sense.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I feel like, I feel bigger and more expansive in some ways. I also feel like the part of my brain that cares about what other people think of me is like broken. Like, I really don't care what other people think of me. But I also feel much more protective of my personal life and my boundaries and my own like private life and my private space. I also publicly came out within the last couple of years. And there's a bar that a lot of the sapphics and the lesbians go to in Toronto, which is so cute. It's a bar called Three Dollar Bill. And they have karaoke on Sundays. So every now and then I would go, but I would never sing. And people would ask me if I would sing. And I was like, oh no, like I don't want to do public karaoke. Because I feel like in that setting, it was like the double whammy of

• 25:30Speaker 03

  doing the public karaoke and all of the fears that I mentioned before. But then also me being nervous about singing in front of the lesbians. And me still feeling like a baby lesbian and feeling almost that imposter syndrome, even though it's now been, you know, a, a while since people have known that I've been out. And I, I know that I'm a lesbian. But I still feel that imposter syndrome. And I still would tell myself like, how can I go up in front of the lesbians and sing when I still am feeling like this? So for some reason, like the combo of karaoke lesbian bar really freaked me out. So then you were like, hey, do you want to do karaoke somewhere? I'm like, why don't I just go hard?

• 26:13Speaker 03

  And just aspire to do karaoke at the lesbian bar.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  So brave. So brave.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  So you are working toward this like very vulnerable thing, actually, of like doing something that hasn't been perfected in public, in front of people. How did you pick the song that you were gonna sing?

• 26:31Speaker 03

  So when I go back to the singing lessons I did in my early twenties, before I quit because I couldn't afford them, the song that I was actually working on was "Someone Like You" by Adele. And I was like, okay, when I do this challenge, I want to make sure that I'm picking a song that is a classic, you know, like classic karaoke, something that was still doable to sing in five weeks. And then when I thought about "Someone Like You", I was like, wow, what an opportunity for me to go back and finally close the loop and actually finish working on that song. So "Someone Like You" was the song I worked on for the five weeks up until karaoke.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, my God. When I, when I saw the video that you sent me of you practicing, I was like, I cannot believe she's singing Adele. That is

• 27:21Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  crazy.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  I heard that you settled down, that you found a girl and you're married now.

• 27:41Speaker 01

  So tell me about the, the last couple of weeks of your classes, and then we can get to the actual challenge.

• 27:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the last couple of weeks of the classes, after the first two weeks, when I was really, really feeling, oh, my gosh, how am I gonna be ready for this? Over the last couple of weeks, I felt myself gaining more confidence and feeling like I'm actually improving. I'm actually hearing the feedback, applying it and getting better and better. But there was always a little part of me that was thinking, I really want to find my instructor from 10 years ago. We just got along so well. I have to be able to find her somewhere. And so I was like, okay, the music school is closed. I don't remember what her last name is. How do I find her? And I remembered that years ago, I had seen her perform in this cover band.

• 28:30Speaker 03

  So I Googled her first name and the name of the cover band. And then I found that she's actually performing in a different cover band, which is called Shania Twink. And it is a queer country music cover band, which means that she also came out as queer within the last few years.

• 28:49Speaker 01

  Chef's kiss.

• 28:50Speaker 03

  When I saw that, I was like, are you ki- I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? And I reached out to her, I was like, hey, coming in hot, haven't talked to you in 10 years. Here's what I'm doing. And she responded and she was like, I'm not teaching anymore, but I would be happy to do like a one-off with you. If you want to come to my apartment and we can sing. I'm like, yes, amazing. And I got together with her and once again, I had come from a workout, so I roll in in my gym clothes. But I felt like I was such a different person and I felt like she was such a different person. And she even noticed with me, she was like, when you would come in 10 years ago, you were like, trying to figure out what you wanted to do, trying to figure yourself out.

• 29:32Speaker 03

  And now seeing everything you've done, it's like you've grown into the person that you always wanted to be. I'm like, oh, my God.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  That's so beautiful. Oh, my gosh.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  I actually completed all my five lessons and then I sang with her two days before I did the karaoke. And she was like, okay, Erica, you can sing the song, like you're able to sing the song. Right now, I think we should focus on making sure it sounds like you singing it. How does Erica want to sing the song? And I was like, wow. And I, I, I think that getting that advice right before I went to perform, made me feel a lot better. Cause I'm like, yeah, there's not, yes, there's a technical way to do it. I'm like, but at the end of the day, this is about me trying it and sounding the way that I want and approaching the song that I, the way that I want.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so let's talk about challenge day. How were you feeling that day?

• 30:23Speaker 03

  Very nervous.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  I was really nervous. I had invited a bunch of my friends to come and see me. Earlier that day, I was actually talking to someone who did a really similar challenge a few years ago. And I think that that advice helped to put me in the right headspace. Because I, I was saying to this person, I'm like, yeah, you know what? I have to just look at it as it doesn't matter what anybody thinks. And I just have to see this as the culmination of my, my practice and my hard work over the month. And I have to do this for me. And this person said, yeah, that's like super important. I think what's also important about this is it's about connection and community. And often that comes from the vulnerability.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  And you're able to build that level of connection because you're showing up imperfectly and you're still trying and you're doing that thing anyways. And I think that that was for me, the right thing I needed to hear because it put me in the right headspace. Because as, as I'm, I wonder if the listeners can deduce, I'm someone who just goes for it, has high standards for herself, works hard, and I really wanted to impress people when I did this thing. And I realized perfection impresses people and imperfection is what drives connection. And I think with tha- that mindset, I realized, okay, no matter how it goes, no matter if I hit all the notes or not,

• 31:47Speaker 03

  I still come out a better person because I'm either, you know, impressing myself or impressing others, whether that matters or not, but at the very least, I'm connecting with people because I'm letting them see me do this thing. That's scary.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. That's beautiful. So tell me about the day of you went to the gym, I know.

• 32:07Speaker 03

  Yes. So the day of, went to the gym and then just tried to have a chill day, did my laundry, practiced as much as I could. Yeah. Then I remember walking over to the bar with my friends and I got a drink and my friends are all talking and I'm talking, but eventually I'm just like quietly sitting there and sipping my drink and just thinking about the moment that's about to come.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Did your friends know that you had been taking lessons?

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I had told them about the whole journey. They were all so pumped. I know one of my friends, he was like, oh, my God, what if she's bad? I hope she's good. I really hope she's good. And that's the thing, they were all impressed before I even sang. They just thought it was so cool that I was doing this thing. So I think that's the other thing that I had to keep in mind for myself, that I'm still doing something that is like brave, which is, yeah, it is a brave thing.

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were rooting for you. Your friends were rooting for you.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  Yes. And then I had actually messaged the bar ahead of time and I asked if I could go first and they're like, yeah, sure, just tell. Just tell the person running karaoke that you want to go first. So I walk in, I'm just like, walk in, ready to go, and then they recognize me. They're like, yeah, you want to go first? I'm like, yeah, I'm like, can I say something on the mic before? So I go up on the mic. I'm like, hey, I'm Erica, you might recognize me because I won Survivor. Everyone applauds. And I'm like, I'm working on this other project. Can't really explain what it is, but I've been taking singing lessons for the last couple of weeks. And my goal is to be able to sing in front of all of you on the first day of Pride Month. Everyone cheers.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I have goosebumps.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  And then I was like, so because of that, like, can everybody please not film me and put me on the internet? And then the person who runs karaoke goes on the other mic. They're like, oh, yeah, also, just so everyone knows, this is a safe space and nobody should be filming anybody without their explicit consent. I'm like, oh, OK, thank you. Because I think that was my fear. I was afraid that someone would be like, oh, that's Erica from Survivor, I'm going to film her. Put it on the internet, ruins the whole, even ruins the whole podcast. I'm like, no, no, no, we worked too hard.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  Crucially, we did have a friend of yours film your performance.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 34:15Speaker 01

  For this podcast, so we do have a recording.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:23Speaker 03

  And then the song starts playing. It's the first time I hear the song, you know, on the speakers with the mic at the bar with people talking. So once I get through the first couple of lines, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm following the plan.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  And as I'm singing, the bar just gets quieter and quieter. And I'm like, OK, I don't know if this is like a good thing or a bad thing, but I'm just going to go with it anyways. And I just have to remember the plan. And I think that because I had practiced to this plan for so long, I got to really just sing it the way that I practiced it. Let it go through. And there were parts that I was really nervous about, certain notes I was nervous about, and I would sing them. And I'm like, OK, not bad, that's like, keep going.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  And by the end, the bar was mostly quiet and it was everyone paying attention to me singing.

• 36:01Speaker 03

  And then I finished it. I got off the stage and then just the next person goes up and sings. And I was like, wow. That was so, that was like such a milestone, but at the same time, so not a big deal. Like I had built this up to be the scariest moment in my head. And I was like, wait, that was totally fine. Everyone moved on. Everyone is good. And the thing is, I was so afraid of singing in front of all the lesbians and all of the sapphics. And it turned out they were the best people to sing in front of because so many people were chatting with me after, whether they recognized me from Survivor or not. And they were just the sweetest, most supportive people. Like, why was I scared? This was actually the best place to be singing.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  This was the best crowd to be singing in front of. And then after a few hours of being in the bar, my friend and I ended up singing a duet. So we went up and we sang Breaking Free from High School Musical.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 36:56Speaker 03

  Totally the opposite, not the opposite, but.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Were you Troy or Gabriella?

• 37:01Speaker 03

  So originally I was supposed to be Gabriella, but then halfway through the song, we just became both. We both became both and just went for it. And everyone is singing along. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is when I also did public karaoke again, this time with no preparation.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:15Speaker 03

  And it was totally fine. And I had the best night. And now I'm like, I should have, you know, it's reasonable, but I realized it was actually the best to be singing at $3 bill with all of the lesbians. And honestly, if anyone is in Toronto, I highly recommend, if you're a sapphic, go there for karaoke because it was the best.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Beautiful. I, I can't help but think of how similar this is to when you cut all your hair off and dyed it purple for the first time, where you were like, oh my God, am I allowed to do this? Is this gonna like rock the entire world? And then you do it and you feel completely different, but everyone's like, cool. And then they just like keep going.

• 37:54Speaker 03

  That's the thing. They were like, that was really cool. You did that. I'm like, thanks.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 03

  And then we just talked about whatever. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Amazing. And then afterwards, people were asking me how I felt. I was like, you know what? I did better than I expected. I exceeded my own expectations. And even when I went back and I listened to it again, I thought that, wow, I sounded better than I expected. So I will take it.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  You sounded great.

• 38:18Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. I was so impressed. And I was like, I was nervous when I hit play. I was like, oh, God, I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous. I was blown away. It was amazing.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Imagine you were like, oh, my gosh, we just decided to entire podcast about this and she was so bad.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  That would have been OK, too, because the point was that you were doing it and getting out there.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  That's the thing. Even when I went on the mic before I sang, I was like, I took lessons. Doesn't mean I'm good, but it meant that I was trying really hard and people were into it.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  So what is next? Are you going to continue taking lessons? Are you going to do more karaoke?

• 38:55Speaker 03

  I would say if I'm in the right place, now I feel more comfortable doing it. So I think if I was to go back to the lesbian bar without hesitation, definitely would do it. Still, private room, I would do it. And then in terms of like, public, I'll suss it out. I'll see. But now it's it's back on the table, which is really nice.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Perfection impresses people, but imperfection drives connection.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  I love that so much. It's such a great reminder that a lot of the things that we want to be doing, the music, the sports, all these hobbies, all of these interests, they tend to be less about the thing itself and more about the connection that you're forging with people while you're doing them. I think that for those of us who are secret perfectionists, even to ourselves, it's such a great reminder that like, doing the thing perfectly is actually not the point, especially in a low-stake situation like karaoke. I hope this is the beginning of many crazy karaoke nights for Erica.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Try Hard is written, hosted, and produced by me, Alex Sujong Loughlin. Editorial support from Tom Ley, Randy Jensen, Audrey Mardavich, and Jay Tolvera. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Art by Lily Allen. Our theme song is "Photo Booth" by Avery Friedman. Mixing by Samantha Gatzick. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company, and Try Hard is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Alex Sujong Loughlin, and until next time, don't be afraid to be seen trying.