Bonus Episode: Rat Kings and Emotional Support Eggs with Sabrina Imbler

Today's treat: an episode from our secret feed vault. If you'd like to get in on these monthly extra episodes, subscribe as a Friend or a Friend-of-a-Friend https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. Our guest this time is Sabrina Imbler! After catching up on Sabs' latest project—a series of interviews with federal workers fired by the Trump administration—Rachelle and Sabs partake in a batch of gossipy voice memos from our inbox. Sign up to watch SPLITSVILLE with Rachelle on August 16th here https://www.eventbrite.com/e/splitsville-special-screening-hosted-by-rachelle-hampton-tickets-1481893857419?aff=oddtdtcreator. You can find Sabs' interview with fired CDC Health Communications Manager Sarah Boim here https://defector.com/an-interview-with-a-fired-cdc-health-communications-manager?giftLink=ba01ae62f3a0eddb7db751671b8cbea7. You can find the rest of the interviews in this series here https://defector.com/author/sabrina-imbler. You can subscribe to Sabs' newsletter Creatures NYC here https://buttondown.com/simbler. Get your tickets for the Normal Gossip Live tour here https://www.normalgossiplive.com/! Subscribe to our newsletter for writing from Rachelle, Se'era, Jae, Alex, and Kelsey, plus blog recommendations and secrets! https://defector.com/normal-gossip-podcast You can support Normal Gossip directly by buyingmerch https://defectorstore.com/collections/normal-gossip or becoming a Friend or a Friend-of-Friend atsupportnormalgossip.com https://defector.com/products/normalgossip. Our merch shop is run by Dan McQuade. You can also find all kinds of info about us and how to submit gossip on our Komi page:https://normalgossip.komi.io/ Episode transcript here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iZ0mnvRjb_Kjdl1dqXZsRZl7jlykQEnkguvTuwz81rk/edit?tab=t.0. Follow the show on Instagram@normalgossip https://www.instagram.com/normalgossip/, and if you have gossip, email us at [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at 26-79-GOSSIP. Normal Gossip is hosted by Rachelle Hampton (@heyydnae https://www.instagram.com/heyydnae/?hl=en) and produced by Se'era Spragley Ricks (@seera_sharae https://www.instagram.com/seera_sharae/?hl=en) and Jae Towle Vieira (@jaetowlevieira https://instagram.com/jaetowlevieira?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==). Alex Sujong Laughlin (@alexlaughs https://www.instagram.com/alexlaughs/) is our Supervising Producer. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Show art by Tara Jacoby. Normal Gossip is a proud member ofRadiotopia https://www.radiotopia.fm/. Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices https://dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to another bonus episode, y'all. We have officially started production on season nine of Normal Gossip, and we will be announcing the premiere of that soon. But in the meantime, we did not want to leave y'all high and dry, so we thought we would bring you another, previously subscriber-exclusive, episode that features some extra delectable little morsels of gossip submitted by y'all. Before we get into the gossip, some lightheartkeeping. First, if you somehow haven't heard yet, Ciara and I are going on tour in September, which is somehow a month away.

• 0:54Speaker 00

  We officially have all of our tour guests lined up, so bear with me as I recite a bunch of names and cities. In New York, I will be joined by Slate senior writer and Scamfluencers host, Sachi Cole, and in Boston, I'll be joined by comedian Josh Gondalman. Josh Gwynn, award-winning podcast producer and host, will be joining me for the Seattle show, while Slate culture writer Indira Goff will be joining me in Portland. For Denver, I'll be joined by Sam Sanders, the host of the Sam Sanders Show, and vibe check. In Austin, none other than Dowager Queen of Gossip, Kelsey McKenney, will be taking the stage with me. And for the Chicago show, we have been blessed by the presence of the one and

• 1:34Speaker 00

  only Shay Coule. And for our last stop in Minneapolis, superstar podcaster Tracy Clayton will be closing out the tour. Y'all, I am so fucking pumped. These are my very first live shows as the host of Normal Gossip. I am taking my responsibility to entertain extremely seriously, and I have a really good feeling that y'all are gonna love the show we're putting together. Also, I just can't wait to meet y'all. But speaking of meeting y'all, if you don't follow us on Instagram, you missed out on some exciting news, which is that on August 16th, I will be hosting a free screening of Split A relationship comedy that stars Dakota Johnson and Adria Arjona. The screening will be at 7:00 PM at the Lincoln Center AMC.

• 2:18Speaker 00

  And did I mention it's free? Like, free 99. We'll put the link to RSVP in the show notes. All right, that is all the housekeeping for now. Onto the gossip. Like I said, this episode was previously a subscriber exclusive. If you subscribe as a friend or a friend of a friend, that means that every month, even in between seasons, you get a special little subscriber-only episode. Sometimes the episodes are discussions of the things that we're reading and watching. In fact, a little birdie told me that August's subscriber episode is going to be a wine-fuel chat about Fourth Wing, the romanticy novel. So sign up if you want to hear that. But just to give you all a taste of what you're missing out on,

• 2:59Speaker 00

  here is our May subscriber episode, which stars none other than Defector staff writer and close friend of the pod, Sabrina Emblair. Sabz is one of my absolute favorite people. And early this year, they published an incredible series on Defector where they interviewed federal workers whose jobs have been eliminated by the Trump administration. I know that for a lot of y'all, this show is an escape from the news cycle, and I am honestly honored to provide that. But platforms are to be used. In the ever-evolving fascist shitstorm that is the second Trump administration, a lot of stories can end up being lost in the shuffle. Like, what was even happening in the spring? You know? I don't. Well, I do. Because what was happening, and is still happening, is a lot of people who dedicated their lives to public service

• 3:42Speaker 00

  being subjected to horrific treatment by the very entity they dedicated their lives to. At the top of this episode, Sabz tells us about their experience interviewing these federal employees, and we will be linking to several of their interviews in the show notes. And now, it's time to get into the gossip. We have got five delicious voice memos from listeners that happened after that interview with Sabz. Enjoy. Sabz, welcome back.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me back, Rachel. It's so good to be here.

• 4:11Speaker 00

  I'm so excited. Last time you were here, we were talking about your incredible series where you made all of us watch some iconic Christmas movies.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we talked about sexy Jesus. And I think about that every time I see him, meaning Jesus. I kind of evaluate like, is he fuckable? Like, how fuckable is Jesus today?

• 4:33Speaker 00

  Well, A, I'm really glad to have left that impact on you. And B, that makes me want to ask, how often are you seeing Jesus?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  I am in a state of despair, as many of us are. And that has brought me back to Law & Order: SBU, which has a lot of Catholic crimes, like a lot of priests doing wrong. So I mostly see Jesus on the screen as I'm chopping my mirepoix, is how you say it? When you're like, my tiny onions, my tiny leeks. Yeah.

• 5:10Speaker 00

  My little me-someplace. Yes.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yes, that is, that's what I was trying to say. I was like, French word.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  They're the same. I will say, when you said that you're in a state of despair, and that it has made you return to something, I thought you were gonna say the church. And I was like, Sabz, I didn't think things, it's only, it hasn't even been 200 days yet.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Imagine I'm born again. I have found him.

• 5:36Speaker 00

  Gossip to talk about.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  I mean, I feel like each of us has, like, you know, like, a limit that if we reached, we would find the church or whatever the equivalent of our church would be. And honestly, maybe for me, that limit is like, Jesus is fuckable.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  All hail.

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Well, before we do any more blasphemy, I did want to ask you. A little bit about the times that we're living in, which are full of despair, and also about your latest project, which has been incredible to witness. You've been conducting a series of interviews with federal employees who have been fired by the Trump administration. And you recently interviewed Sarah Boim, who, in the aftermath of being fired from her dream job at the CDC, started this newsletter for other fired CDC workers called Fired But Fighting. Great name. Could you tell me a little bit more about Sarah and this newsletter and how you see it kind of fitting into the broader response of federal employees who have seen their livelihoods upended?

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Doing this series has been very emotionally inspiring, but also emotionally exhausting in a way. It's funny how many of the folks I speak with say they've gone through the five stages of grief, like around their firing, because, you know, it's so hard to get a federal job. It's something that you have to work years towards sometimes. And in Sarah's case, it was really extra tragic because her mom also works for the CDC and she sort of joined her mom working at the CDC also as a health communications manager. And she was talking to me about some of the great work that she did there. She worked on this project called Heat Risk, which is like a heat forecasting tool where you can enter your zip code and then it'll tell you about like the heat risk in your area.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  So basically, she was spending her days at work trying to help the public understand their health, understand their safety, things that I loved that she was doing as she was doing them.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  But Sarah and, you know, an enormous number of healthcare workers, federal health coworkers, have been fired by the Trump administration and Elon Musk and his like made up department. And something that's been common with these firings in every department is the people who are being fired. Have no idea what's happening because the people who are firing them are like 24 year old dweebs who like

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  don't understand the federal government, don't know how to fire people. Several of the folks I spoke with have been fired repeatedly, like they were fired and then, you know, a lot of judges have been contesting the legality of these firings and so they've been reinstated and then they've been fired through another route, like it's very, very stressful. And so when Sarah and her former colleagues, after they were fired, they were just trying to figure out like, what is our recourse? Will we be reinstated? Like, there were so many questions floating around and so much misinformation as well. And so she and a bunch of her coworkers basically started this Signal chat where they would crowdsource information. And they realized that there was so much misinformation that they wanted to start a newsletter, basically to be like, these are facts.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  We know that these are the facts surrounding how we were fired, the future of the CDC and, you know, these other healthcare institutions. And this newsletter became this coalition called Fired But Fighting, which, as you said, is an amazing name. And it's basically just a coalition of CDC workers who were unfairly terminated by these layoffs. And they've become this group to basically advocate for their reinstatement and the reinstatement of other terminated public health workers. And also to talk about just how fucked up this whole process of firing has been, right? Because whenever a new presidential administration comes into power, they'll hire some people, they'll fire some people, but it's never happened like this. And truly, just the stories that I'm hearing and the ways that people's lives have been

• 9:29Speaker 01

  devastated, like I spoke with a single mother recently who sold her house and moved here with her five-year-old son to like, start this job and now she doesn't have a job, she doesn't have healthcare, like she, yeah, it's just, it's really, it's really infuriating hearing these stories.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, Something that is often referenced when workplaces are terrible or toxic is like the role of gossip in it. Like, I feel like the beginning of union drives are often just gossiping. And so I wanted to ask, because this is the gossip show, what role, if any, do you see that playing in the lives of these like fired federal workers at the moment? Like, is fired but fighting? And the Signal chat that you mentioned, like, are those channels, are people talking to each other, basically?

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, I really, and I have no, like, data to back this up, but I feel like this is the most important time for DC group chats. Like, I think they're all a fire. And I think, yeah, the Signal chat that Sarah Blom started with her coworkers, like, it absolutely was a form of communicating information through gossip, because, you know, some of it is like facts, and some of it is sort of like rumors, like, I heard this is gonna happen. Because a lot of these federal workers, right, they've seen other departments laid off, you know, the week before. And so they're like, I feel like I'm next, like, I'm gonna. A lot of these people also were tipped off, right, by other friends or coworkers

• 11:08Speaker 01

  they have elsewhere in the federal government of like, oh, this is, this, this email is coming for you tomorrow. And so I think they're all enmeshed in gossip, like, whether they want to or not. And a lot of the folks I've spoken with have been spending a lot of time on Reddit, because that has become, in weird ways, like, a more reliable source of information. Not necessarily about the firings, but about like, what are my rights right now as a fired person? And so I guess TLDR, like, the people be texting. And they are often in Signal, because that is a more secure way to text.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense that a lot of this is happening on Reddit, because it feels like one of the few platforms we have that is not, there's some algorithm stuff on like, your homepage and whatever, but it feels like one of the most reliable sources of information, and it's also anonymous. Though, I will say, people who are on Reddit, it is very easy, if you comment a lot on Reddit, to figure out information. So please, think about that.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  I feel like I'm in a lot of snark pages and people are like, I'm good. And I'm like, you can get doxxed really like, please be careful. So, you know, your Reddit comment history is public.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  That is such an important PSA because after I left Twitter, because it was feeling really bad, I started spending a lot of time on Reddit. And my favorite thing to do is like, read through the, you know, like, am I the asshole? Like, is this outfit appropriate for a wedding? And it's like, no. And then when someone comments something deranged, I will click on them. And I'll be like, let me read everything you've ever written. And like, create this idea of you as a character. Yeah.

• 12:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, same. This is why I'm giving this PSA is whenever I see something absolutely unhinged in like, the New York City influencer snark page, I immediately click on that commenter. And I'm like, what else are you commenting on? And then I'm like, this is girly pop. It's really easy to figure out who you are. I don't care. That's not my job. That's not my business. But like, operational security, opsec.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  Opsec.

• 13:18Speaker 00

  Yes. Um, I'm gonna ask you a question that I kind of hate getting, but unfortunately I must ask, which is, you've been doing these interviews for about two months now. And as someone who's kind of steeped in it, is there anything that like, the average person who is not federally employed can do besides knowing what's going on? Like, I feel like there's a real sense of helplessness and I'm, some of it's real and some of it's not. And figuring out what is and what isn't is helpful.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I think, and this is gonna sound so stupid, but like, what I've been hearing from a lot of folks is just the importance of calling your representatives. Like, I feel like Kelsey wrote a great blog about this, I'm sure, about just like, now is the time to be seriously annoying your elected officials who are supposed to represent you and like, letting them know that you want a functioning CDC, that you support national parks that have trails that you can actually walk on because, you know, there aren't like fallen trees or just like piles of trash that grizzly bears are kind of come in like, eat while you're walking and trying to enjoy the park. The more noise you can make on behalf of these federal workers, like,

• 14:34Speaker 01

  it's so unclear what that will result in, but it will, I think, at least. Help send the message to the people who have a little bit more power than us. Yeah, unfortunately, I don't know how much control we have over the economy. It's not something I can speak on.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Unfortunately, I don't understand her that well. She seems kind of made up sometimes.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  I don't think she understands herself.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  And like, do any of us, really, aren't we all on a journey of self-discovery?

• 15:03Speaker 01

  I know, the economy needs to go to therapy.

• 15:07Speaker 00

  Needs to go backpacking through Europe for a few months.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  Wow, have a Cheryl Strayed moment.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  Show the toe blister.

• 15:17Speaker 00

  Like, go do something, please.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Like, six-month blackout on Instagram and then suddenly like a photo of a sunset and it's like the economy is healing.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, she needs to have a Lizzie McGuire moment in Italy. She needs to be almost scammed by a guy who can't sing and then find her long-lost Italian sister and then she can come back new and renewed.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Beautiful, beautiful reference to a beautiful movie.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  This is what dreams are made of, Sabs.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Paolo.

• 15:50Speaker 00

  Sing for me, Paolo.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  No, I think that's really real. I would say for all of our listeners, before you think about sending us a voicemail, call your representatives and then send us a voicemail. Do both, you're already on the phone.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are like 500 billion things that are bad that are happening. You can call them about any of those things.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Truly anything.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  You can fax them, too.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  Yes, they're not gonna pick up. You're just, you're leaving a voicemail. You don't have to worry about talking to anybody.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Yes, that is something I was, I was like so scared of when I first started calling my representatives and it's like, oh, I'm not actually speaking with Mr. Chuck Schumer.

• 16:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 16:29Speaker 01

  Although I'd love to, I'd love to give him a piece of my mind.

• 16:33Speaker 00

  Just, just be like, Mr. Schumer, retire, bitch.

• 16:40Speaker 00

  There's definitely so much more to say on this, but we are gonna get into the gossip, what you're here for. But if you would like to read more of these interviews, which you should, we're gonna put a bunch of links in the show notes. One last piece of business before we get into the aforementioned gossip. We would love to do more episodes like this. So if you have a short gossip story, please record a voice memo and email it to us at [email protected] and then call your representative immediately after and leave another voice memo saying, "Retire, bitch."

• 17:15Speaker 00

  I'm gonna admit something embarrassing. I know, shocker. I have not had a bedside lamp for an undisclosed amount of months, long enough that I basically haven't read before bed for a really long time. And I only realized this because I'm hosting a friend and I was like, wow, they deserve to have a light by their bed at night. I don't. But this finally inspired me to find the perfect bedside lamp. And I had a vision in mind, Wayfair. They had exactly what I need, which is one of those library-style lights with like the green lampshade and little pull cord. I have been having this image in my mind of having one, and now I have one because

• 17:56Speaker 00

  of course Wayfair had it. For all things hosting, Wayfair delivers high-quality, customer-trusted products for your home so you can host and celebrate without distress. When refreshing your home this holiday season, Wayfair delivers exactly what you need. Head to wayfair.com to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  We've been cooking up a fun, special holiday project for y'all over here at Normal Gossip. And usually when work gets crazy, I kinda just try to continue my life like nothing's happening. But recently, thanks to therapy, this time around, I was like, what if I did not try to pour from an empty cup? And that is what growing feels like. If you've been thinking about starting therapy, then I think you should check. Check out today's sponsor, Growth Therapy. Growth Therapy is built for therapy that actually feels like care. You can find therapy based on what matters most to you, like insurance taken, mental health specialties, identity, or night and weekend availability if you're working a lot.

• 19:05Speaker 00

  Book your first session in minutes and you can start in as little as two days. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0, depending on your insurance plan. Prepare for holiday glimmers instead of holiday stress. Visit growtherapy.com/gossip to get started today. That is growtherapy.com/gossip. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odoo at O D O O dot com. That's O D O O dot com.

• 20:08Speaker 00

  Okay, Sav, are you ready for some gossip?

• 20:12Speaker 01

  I just burped.

• 20:15Speaker 00

  Oh, the answer is yes.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  You can leave it in. I will say, like, I, when I learned that I was coming on this episode, I was like, you know those, you know that photo or like those videos of baby birds that like have just left the nest, but they don't know how to eat yet? So they open their mouths because like that's how their parents know to put worms in there. But then they're on the sidewalk and they see a worm and they're just like opening their mouth. That's me and then the worm is the gossip story.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  That's a beautiful mental image and I would love to feed you some gossip.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  So my parents live in a condo association. It's not like a condo like an apartment building. It's like kind of small houses all on shared land, which is relevant. And so the drama is that there are these two cliques in the condo association. We have the old timers who have been there for decades. And then the young people, which is a relative term. It's like my parents and their group of friends. So it's like, and they're like late 50s, early 60s, kind of. And so the board is all old timers and it's dominated by someone I'll call Nancy.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  She's the queen fucking bee, absolute nightmare of an 80 year old.

• 21:41Speaker 03

  And there are a handful of people on the board, all in the old timers group. My dad was on the board for a little while, but he quit because he realized that Nancy was just changing the rules to fit whatever her personal agenda was. And he is a man of principle and so he quit.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  But one of the board members is a man that I will call Ralph. His condo faces my parents and there is a lot of people in this condo association are artists or art collectors. So there's a lot of like big sculptures or like metalwork or kind of cool art on people's like kind of portion of their own lawn or outside. And so my parents wanted to put out, they got these like street signs that they won from some asylum auction from like streets that we used to live on growing up. So there's like these like metal street signs and they wanted to put them up outside their condo. And so they did, they went ahead and did that.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  And there's also this like kind of metalwork lizard piece of art that they wanted to put up. At the next board meeting, Ralph pitched a fit. He said that they had to take those down because there's some rule in the bylaws that say you can't hang art up on the outside of your unit. And my mom was like, Okay, what about the like, big ass sculpture outside of Nancy's unit? And that flustered Ralph. He had not considered that. Um, or like, he had been caught red handed. Also, keep in mind, this is a group of like, a lot of them are lawyers or retired lawyers.

• 23:29Speaker 03

  So, so they're all arguing with each other. And Ralph is like, okay, so you switch tactics, like, well, sure, fine, but those are actually art. Um, and these street signs are not art. And my mom was like, who are you to decide what is or is not art? Um, and I am, at the time, I'm living with my parents and I'm upstairs in my room and they're having this board meeting in my parents' living room. And just my, they are screaming at each other. Um, that's not art. Well, who are you to decide what is or isn't art? Are you the god of art?

• 24:12Speaker 03

  And it was just, it was the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life. Just fully, my mom doesn't yell often. She's much more like, kind of, you know, she'll do the like, biting comments, but she doesn't yell, she doesn't raise her voice. Whoo, boy, I have never heard her yell like this. Um, defending her metal street signs as art. Um, so anyway, she finally, they, she gave up. They did not put up the art. Um, and they took down the lizard, which also, okay, he, the street signs, sure, but this lizard, very clearly art. Whatever.

• 24:48Speaker 00

  I don't even know where to start with this. I always love a dynamic where you're like, the younger people in their 50s or 60s. And it's like, okay, we are in a specific place right now.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Youth is always relative, but like, as I was listening to this, I was like, this is the perfect thing for an 80 year old person to do, which is like, not hold political office for the US government, but instead, sit on a board of your condo and stir some shit. Like, that's appropriate.

• 25:24Speaker 00

  You're entirely right. I would rather Ralph be arguing in someone's living room about what constitutes art.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  A really philosophical question.

• 25:37Speaker 00

  No, really. I'm like, how are you gonna get to the bottom of that question in this living room? Like, I guess they just decided nothing is art. I want to see the lizard statue, by the way.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  I also want to see the street signs.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  Whenever I looked out my window in one of the apartments that I lived in, I saw like, a barb flag, like a Nicki Minaj, like, saluting over the American flag. And like, it was so big. It's like, wow, the beautiful skyline and like Nicki Minaj. But it's like, that's that person's right to like, hang that flag. And like, I grew to appreciate it. And like, maybe Ralph would grow to appreciate the metalwork lizard over time.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  No, it's true. I mean, I now I want to see what Ralph would do if he saw the barb flag hanging from somebody's condo balcony.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  I think his life would be changed.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  I think he will become a barb. I think he would learn all of the words to Nicki's verse in Monster. I think.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  For the condo talent show.

• 26:39Speaker 00

  The condo association talent show. If I bought property, that's mine. You can't tell me what the fuck to do with it. How is there a whole association, homeowners association, condo associations, co-op boards, that are telling me what to do with my property? That's like, coming into my house and being like, your cat can't do that. Fuck you. That's mine.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I think, as long as we have the system of private property as it operates.

• 27:15Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  In the United States, like, let me hang my fucking lizard outside of my, my fucking condo.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  No, literally abolish private property. I'm okay with that, too. But if we're gonna have private property, I'm gonna do what I want on it. Like.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  That's crazy. Um, this next one to ask, have you ever found yourself in an argument? And like in the middle of it, you can tell that it's, you're like, this is, I shouldn't be yelling like this. No reason for me to be this, this upset.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Yes, I have been there.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Um, the one that's coming to mind is me and my roommate once, it was like midnight. I think this was like during the Delta wave of COVID. So we were like back inside after having the vaccines. And we were like, I can't believe we're doing this again. And it was like 1:30 in the morning. And we were arguing about, for some reason, Harry Potter, don't know why. We both are like, fuck J K Rowling, but.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Ahead of your time.

• 28:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, this was 2021, so she was already on.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's fair, that's fair.

• 28:25Speaker 00

  But we were like, I think the argument was predicated on like, why could Harry not see the death straws? When he had seen his parents die? And she was like, well, it's because he was a baby. He didn't, he didn't know. And I was like, so it's like, you have to understand death to see death. And then at some point, I remember yelling, can blind people witness death? And that was the moment that I was just like, and you know what?

• 28:51Speaker 00

  It's time to go to sleep.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  And it's bedtime.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  It was also the angriest I've ever been at her. Like, we don't get mad, but it was only this argument. And it was just like, this is, we gotta go to sleep.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  I mean, and that's a good question. I think they can. Experiencing death is not just relegated to one sense.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Right?

• 29:15Speaker 01

  You can touch, when someone dies, they, well, God, we don't even like go into corpse talk, but like, they become cold, they become stiff. Like, I'm, maybe there is a whiff of death that emerges, like a pheromone.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  Death rattle? Like, there's, there's all these other things. Yes, exactly. I'm like, you should have been able, that's a pothole. Fuck you, J K Rowling. You should have been able to see from the start.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  My version of that is when I was in high school and I was at an aquarium with my entire family. We were walking in the aquarium and my parents were like. Turtles are amphibians. And I was like,

• 29:51Speaker 00

  That's not true.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  They're reptiles.

• 29:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 01

  And my entire family were like, mm, they live in water. They're amphibians. And I was like, no, amphibians can break through their skin. Amphibians are frogs and newts. Turtles are reptiles. My parents were like, you see these turtles? Like, they're in the ocean. Like, that's an amphibian. I felt so crazy. And I was like, I, I know, right? And I couldn't tell if it was like an elaborate bit, but I really think they all were so convinced. And like, I don't even think they really cared that much, but they were all ganging up on me. And I felt, oh, and I, I, I was, I was screaming at the aquarium. I was screaming.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  I like, A, the performance of this argument, like, your voice. I was like, your voice work, incredible. Let's just start there.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  I'm back there.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  But also, there's nothing more enraging than everyone being wrong. But because there's numbers, they're right. And you're like, no, I'm right. No, I can see that right now. And also, you won. You're the creature expert.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  But you know what? If I brought this up to them again, I'm sure they would still be like, nope.

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Nope.

• 31:11Speaker 01

  They're amphibians.

• 31:12Speaker 00

  100%. Yeah, they can never admit that they're wrong. Yes.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  Um, we've gone far off the trail.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Let's march back.

• 31:21Speaker 00

  Let's march back.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Lest we not get lost in the woods.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  In the ocean.

• 31:27Speaker 00

  In the sea.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Where the amphibians go.

• 31:29Speaker 00

  Yes. Not the reptiles.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  No, no. Reader, listener, that's not where they live.

• 31:36Speaker 00

  Okay, next gossip. I hope it's about an aquarium.

• 31:41Speaker 04

  A friend of a friend is in a birding group. Wow! It's actually a feminist birding group in her city. Um, there was an unofficial feminist birding group. And there is an official organization called the Feminist Birding Club. And they had started an unofficial chapter of it. So they just didn't go through kind of like the rigmarole of it of getting all the paperwork set up. But they had a pretty well-established group. It was a very nice community for them. It was great. And this past winter, they noticed that someone on Instagram has started their area's feminist birding club. So of course they're like, oh, someone in our group decided to start Instagram. Turns out, it was no one in their group. It was a different group of people entirely.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  And a couple of people in the group reached out to this Instagram account and they're like, hey, like, who's doing this? We'd love to connect. Like, we have an unofficial group started already and it's, you know, we're really excited about this starting. And they got ignored for weeks. Like, definitely kind of a weird vibe of, you know, wait, why aren't we like connecting? Like, this would be really nice, you know, just if you're starting a group and that group already exists, like, why not like join together for it? Um, one of them finally gets responded and it's just kind of like a blow-off message of like, oh, we'll reach out once we're starting officially. Um, after some, you know, light internet stalking that this friend of a friend did,

• 33:06Speaker 04

  they saw that this individual who were running this group, um, they didn't have any events for months. Like, about six months, this official feminist birding club didn't have any, any, um, any events for months. But people had listed it on their LinkedIn, being like, I'm the executive director of, of the feminist birding group chapter in our city. And it just gave off like a really weird vibe. So yeah, people just kind of got blown off. And now it's like this strange dynamic of there's the unofficial group, and there's this official group, and the official group is not interested in connecting.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  My jaw is on the floor.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  No, literally. Also, the fact that I was like, I hope it's about an aquarium. And it wasn't, but like, close enough.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Basically, the aquarium of the sky. With the fish of the sky, which is what I call birds.

• 34:02Speaker 00

  This makes me want to ask, is birding like a male dominated field?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  I think historically, yes. A lot of white men. I think if you think like, who subscribes to Audubon magazine?

• 34:15Speaker 00

  Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  Of course, yeah. People who aren't men have always birded. But in recent years, there have been sort of this wave of like, identity focused, not to be like historian, identity focused like birding groups to help make like, safe spaces for folks who want to bird. There's also been an amazing wave of like, more accessible birding groups. Like, people who do bird sits for people who aren't as mobile, or can't, you know, do a walk. That's like, which is like amazing. Like, I'm like, I'm such a big supporter of like feminist bird clubs. But I'm also, I love intercommunity drama. I love drama when it's like, I would, I'm politically aligned with every single person in this thing. And yet, everyone is acting poorly. I do love that.

• 34:56Speaker 00

  That is my favorite kind of drama, because I love drama where there's no real clear villain. It's just people being people, where it's like, I know that if push came to shove, we're all actually on the same side. Like, I know that if things, if the apocalypse allegedly starts, like, we're gonna be Mad Max-ing in the same car.

• 35:17Speaker 00

  But I'm still gonna have beef with you because you're a person, and I'm a person, and we're different people.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 35:24Speaker 00

  So I love that this unofficial feminist birding club is fighting with the official feminist birding club. And also, the official feminist birding club is like, also not doing anything? It's just the name that people are putting on their LinkedIn. Also, is it impressive to have this on your LinkedIn?

• 35:43Speaker 01

  I was like, what roles are you seeking?

• 35:46Speaker 00

  That this is an impressive thing to have, like.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Also, like, not to denigrate the work that goes into a birding group because right, planning events takes a lot of work. Like, you are providing expertise, but specifically the title Executive Director of like, a local chapter of a birding group. I'm like, okay.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  We're getting a little too far here, but also there. Running a birding group does seem like work, but this, the, this one's not doing anything. They don't have events for six months. So it's like, what are you executive directing?

• 36:18Speaker 01

  I think writing that LinkedIn update.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  And you know what? That's a lot of work. There are some real people who make LinkedIn their jobs. I've heard about them.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  10 lessons I learned from being the Executive Director of my local birding group.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  Official feminist birding club of this metro area. Um, I love that. I think that the beef should become even more pronounced, especially if they are dueling Instagram pages. Like, I think that the unofficial group should change their title to official. So that people are even more confused. Like, I want the stakes to be up even further. I want anyone who goes to the city who is a feminist, who's like, I want to join a feminist birding group, to Google and then immediately be informed of this beef. Like, I want it to be so clear that something's going on here.

• 37:09Speaker 01

  I love that. I mean, it's also like, what is the official chapter posting on Instagram? If they don't have any events, like, what is there to post about?

• 37:21Speaker 00

  Anyone can do that.

• 37:22Speaker 01

  Anyone can do that.

• 37:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I could go on Google Images and get a photo of a cardinal.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  And I, and I bet it would be beautiful.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  I bet it would be beautiful. There was a cardinal in my backyard the other day and I was like, hello friend.

• 37:36Speaker 01

  A male.

• 37:37Speaker 00

  It was red.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  A male feminist.

• 37:43Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  He was like, ally. I support you and your podcast.

• 37:54Speaker 00

  That's exactly what he was saying to me.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Wow. Um, please manufacture more drama within these birding groups and get back to me. Um, I think it's imperative for my mental health. Thank you so much.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Please.

• 38:19Speaker 00

  Next.

• 38:22Speaker 05

  So when I was in college, I had friends who really liked to play board games. And so one weekend, we're in one of the guy's apartment, we'll call him Eric. And there's like five or six of us, mix of genders and kind of different levels of friends. And we're playing Catan. And as background, I had never played before. I was never really that interested. That style of game has never been that attractive to me. And like, also, I had beef with the game risk growing up. So I just, like, never really appealed to me. Everyone was kind of helping me understand the rules, understand just like the basics of like, hey, generally, like, this is what people would do. This is the general common knowledge that everyone here has, but you don't, we'll help you out.

• 39:03Speaker 05

  And I also note that this was a like custom Catan set that had been handmade by Eric's girlfriend, Jennifer. And so, uh, great, we're playing on this beautiful, like, handmade set that was like laser cut in the, you know, university wood shop or whatever. Um, I know how to play, we're having a good time. I happened to win. It was mostly luck. Um, I like had happened to go first. I happened to draw some victory point cards. Like, it just happened, great, everyone's in good spirits. Uh, come to find out, that night, Eric and Jennifer got in a little fight. Uh, Jennifer felt like Eric was helping me too much and like showing me preferential treatment.

• 39:47Speaker 05

  And then like created this whole story about how like he like emotionally cheated on her with me, which was like the farthest thing from the truth. But it went from just like a fun little game night, like using the nice custom handmade, like birthday gift or Christmas gift or whatever, like gift game set that it was. And then they broke up that night and it was pretty much because of me. So, uh, yeah, I can't.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  Think of the game Catan without thinking of that's that night.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Listen, who among us has not been emotionally cheated on by their boyfriend at a casual mixed gender board game night?

• 40:27Speaker 00

  With a laser pen handmade Settlers of Catan board game. Oh, man. That was a rye. Saps saw my face at Settlers of Catan and immediately started laughing. I have nothing politically against board games. I am so board game people. Again, this is like the Mad Max situation. I know that most people who play board games were gonna be in the same car when the apocalypse happened, but truly there is nothing I hate more. Cause I don't know any, I don't even understand the rules to Monopoly. Like this is not my, I've played life and I'm okay with that, but like the game.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  I love spinning that wheel.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Exactly. I'll play a little twister, but like there's nothing I hate more than being in a room of people who are like really into board games. Cause if you're an adult and someone's playing a board game, they're, they're really into it. There's no real, there's no casual board game interest.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  I hate when people explain the rules to me because I know I'm not gonna understand them. And I know that the people playing the game are gonna get upset because I'm not understanding the rules. And I'm like, I don't know how to tell you that there is no way I'm gonna understand these rules. It has nothing to do with you, has nothing to do with the game. It is the way my brain works. Please just don't involve me in this. If I could be in a corner, smoking weed and like being like, ooh, like doing a little, like if I could just be a cheerleader and not play, I would love that, but please don't involve me. And this is why emotional cheating.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  No, I think that's so fair. I mean, something, a question that I had from the very beginning of this call is like, how do you have beef with a board game? Like having beef with Risk? But it's like, it sounds like you, Rachel, have beef with all board games.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  Yes, yes, I do. This is a whole realm of things that I'm just like, the rules for this are very opaque and there's only so much room in my head and I'm saving a lot of space for what's happening on Married at First Sight Denver. And I just don't really think I have space to learn how to play Settlers of Catan.

• 42:39Speaker 01

  And that's so wise.

• 42:43Speaker 00

  I cannot believe they broke up, though.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  Really wild. I mean, it, I'm sure it was, I'm sure it was coming. I'm sure there were countless tense board game nights like before this one with, I'm sure, other wild allegations. I mean, I imagine they're just gonna find like another board game boyfriend and girlfriend.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  What if this was just like their relationship was perfect up until this night?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  And that was, that was just it?

• 43:12Speaker 01

  I guess that's the power of Catan. Again, it's like, I don't even, I know that that game involves building roads. I think like you build, you build the longest.

• 43:22Speaker 00

  You know, I don't know.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  I know neither of us know. We're like the two. Yeah, I feel like it's because when I'm also not a board game person or a card game person, and whenever people play, I just always have opted out. And so now I know, I don't know how to play anything. And I just like, well, then, okay, well, at this party, I'll just watch from afar. But I do understand that when you are in that moment, though, like I have done Mario Kart, I have been racing. I have thrown a controller on the occasion. Like, I understand that things get heated. But oof, emotional cheating at the Catan.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Emotional cheating at the handmade Settlers of Catan.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  Laser cut.

• 44:02Speaker 00

  Laser cut in the university wood cutting lab, the use of university resources.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Crucial element to this story.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  Emotional cheating? I also love that this caller in had never played before and then won. I love that.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  I mean, that's so you coded. That's so you going to Atlantic City for the first time and then playing the slots and then winning like $387 and being like, I'm out. While all of our coworkers who like, like to gamble or like working hard, like at the table.

• 44:38Speaker 00

  They're like putting a day in at the mines. And I'm just walking in like, I guess I should do this before I leave. No, that was really, that was, that was, that was a peak moment for me.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  I think that's the real winning mindset. Like, that's what Roald Dahl taught us in Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. You're just like, you're not gonna win this factory if you, I think, I'm like recalling my book report. Like, you're not gonna win this factory if you buy thousands of tickets and like game your way into the system like Veruca Salt and all these rich kids. It's like, just Charlie with his four grandparents, like the rat king of grandparents who share the bed. Their legs all tangled together.

• 45:18Speaker 00

  Sad that you just say rat king.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Am I wrong? That's what they're, that's what they're doing there. I don't want to see those legs.

• 45:29Speaker 00

  Wrong. And it's like when Charlie's grandfather just springs up out of bed, like, I'm like, I'm sorry, you could have been having a job this whole time.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  When he just extracts himself from the rat grandparents and it's like, bro.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I know. All he needed to do was put on his LinkedIn that he was the executive director of his local feminist burden club. And he would have offers out the wazoo for content marketing positions.

• 46:00Speaker 00

  Correct, correct. At the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory. Correct, correct.

• 46:05Speaker 01

  Non-union.

• 46:06Speaker 00

  Of course. The Oompa Loompas were not unionized.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Oh, no, it does seem like they were enslaved.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  We hate to see it.

• 46:18Speaker 00

  Well, are we ready for the next call?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:26Speaker 04

  I just remembered something from my childhood that made me giggle and I wanted to tell you about it. So when I was maybe six, I stepped into my older sibling's room and I took a Goosebumps book. And they saw me with it and they said, oh, you're too young for that. That's too scary for you. You're just a baby. And I needed to prove my sibling wrong. I needed to prove that I was a big kid and I could handle it. So I sat at the kitchen table with a snack and I read this book, uh, the snack was a hard boiled egg. And I didn't think it was that scary. And my six-year-old brain, uh, attributed that to the eggs.

• 47:07Speaker 04

  And so for a lot of my childhood, I believed that if I was eating a hard boiled egg, I could not be scared. And so I read so many Goosebumps books that I would not do it without a hard boiled egg.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  Okay, first, the giggle at the end of that voice. Like, I love it. I'm just like, I know that giggle where you're just like.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  You're like, I guess I'm pretty quirky.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Guess I'm a little bit of a freak, like whatever Jughead said on Riverdale. I'm a weirdo.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Wow, not the emotional support egg. At first I was like, this person, like, where did you grow up? Where like, you, like, in, like, some impoverished, like, famine, like peasant village? Like, you, your, your treat of choice was like egg.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  But then egg became source of power. So I love that.

• 48:14Speaker 00

  I'm really curious because Bernie was six when this happened. Did you boil the egg yourself? Or was there just a supply of hard boiled eggs in your house? Like?

• 48:26Speaker 01

  As someone who comes from an egg family, we had a little Tupperware. Hard boiled eggs.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Because my mom was really into protein.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  Protein mom?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Protein mom. And we had one of those, like, cool egg slicers. I don't know if you've seen them, where like, you could put the egg inside it, and then it was like, um, like, many little guillotines that you would like, pull over, and then your egg would become like, many slices. And I thought that that activity was really fun. And then I was kind of obligated to like, eat the egg after I did the egg slicing activity. But, um, there were eggs aplenty in the Ambler household.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Did you like, eat them cold?

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would salt and pepper them. I guess I'm like, wow, I shouldn't be projecting onto Bernie, like, an impoverished egg child.

• 49:13Speaker 00

  The way you were like, what kind of impoverished child? Were you living where egg was your treat? And you're talking about how guillotying the egg is one of your favorite activities?

• 49:24Speaker 01

  No, this is a real moment of like, self-reflection, I guess. I did spend many, many afternoons eating a solo egg.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  But I didn't, I wasn't smart enough to actually like make something of that egg or have that egg symbolize anything.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, did you feel emotionally supported by the egg?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  Oh, well.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  I think I resented egg because it's like, what if instead of egg, I could have Cheetos?

• 49:48Speaker 00

  Like, no, yeah, the better snack.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, like an actual snack.

• 49:53Speaker 00

  I've learned so much about eggs.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Do you have like a, a relationship to hard boiled eggs? Do you eat them? Pop, pop one in?

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Every morning, my dad eats the exact same breakfast, which is two pieces of turkey sausage, two slices of toast and two hard boiled eggs. And he, like, those eggs are boiling so long that half the water is out of the pan. Like, he is hard boiling those eggs. So for a really long time, I thought I didn't like hard boiled eggs because I was like,

• 50:30Speaker 01

  Because he was eating geodes.

• 50:35Speaker 00

  And I was like, this is not good. I don't like this. But recently, as an adult, living by myself, I'm often just like, I need to eat something fast. Like, I just need to eat something. And so recently, I've gotten into soft boiled eggs where they are cooked for exactly 10 minutes and have like a little bit of like hardness to the yolk, but not like a whole, like it's still like a little bit jammy. And so I'll usually eat like, in the middle of the day, just two soft boiled eggs. And I'm like, that'll keep me going through this next meeting. So I do have a relationship. I guess that's my emotional support egg.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are an egg girl.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  I am. I became an egg girl as an adult, but I was really, there are so many things that my parents cooked in fucked up ways where I was like, I just thought I didn't like them. Eggs, steak, because they eat their steak well done. So I was like, I don't like steak. And then I had a medium rare steak and I was like, oh.

• 51:30Speaker 00

  That's different. Cabbage, they love boiled cabbage, which I think is like, like a southern African American thing, but they boiled the shit out of their cabbage. So it was just like the, it's just, I, I can't. So I thought I didn't like cabbage for a long time. And now I'm like, a little raw cabbage is cute. Um, all to say, I have emotional support egg. I understand emotional. I was judging emotional support egg. I'm not gonna lie. And now I'm like, I get it. When life is scary, an egg does comfort you.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Put that on like some ship lap. Put it in my kitchen.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  When life is scary, eat an egg. You'll probably feel better. The protein will definitely make you feel better.

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Me like sobbing over my laptop, like reading the sign, popping one whole egg in my mouth because I don't have my slicer anymore.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  Wait, do you, you just like eat the whole egg?

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Well, now I don't really have a really, me and egg have kind of broken up.

• 52:30Speaker 00

  Okay, that's fair.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  In part because of the economy. Um, but also I think the slicer, like if I, that made the activity fun. That made egg time like a delight. And now egg time is so serious and adult and.

• 52:44Speaker 00

  No, you're right. Yeah. You're right. You're right. That's really fair. You and egg broke up because egg was caught emotionally cheating.

• 52:57Speaker 00

  Everything comes back. Everything comes back.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  All roads lead back.

• 53:01Speaker 00

  Back to emotional cheating.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  And we'll have to think about that for a while.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  And I will be, and I will be. Okay. I think we have one more.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  What else could come for us?

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I know.

• 53:19Speaker 06

  Okay. So on Saturday night, my friend Amy and I went to a concert and beforehand, we went around the bar of this taco place to go have something to eat. And as we're waiting in line, I caught this guy to my left and I'm like, gosh, he looks so familiar. Like I know him. But how do I know him? And I just could not place him. Like, he didn't seem like a famous person, like a celebrity. But, like, I was thinking maybe I met him at like a house party or something. But, like, he was so familiar. So, anyway, we go and sit down and we're at the table next to him. And I'm telling Amy, I'm like, I have to find out how I know this guy. Like, it's gonna eat me up. And she was like, well, you kind of look like Pedro Pascal. And I was like, no, it's not that.

• 54:04Speaker 06

  Um, so I turn around, I tap my shoulder and I'm like, "Hey, um, I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but like, hey, you look intensely familiar to me. Like, I feel like I know you." And, um, he's like, "Oh, okay." I was like, "What's your name?" He's like, "Bleep." And he's looking at me and it's like, uh, like, he wasn't making any, like, effort to be like, "Hey, it was this." And I was like, "Okay, well, I guess now I have to ask you, like, everything you've done over the last, like, three months to figure out where we've overlapped." And then, like, silence, like, lingers. And he's like, "But I'm also a porn star." And my friend Amy started laughing because she thought he was fucking with me. And I was like, "Dude."

• 54:49Speaker 06

  And he's, he's like, "But my name isn't bleep." Like, my, I have a porn name. And I was like, "What is it?" And he's like, "Bleep." And I was like, "Oh, my God, that's it." And I was like, "I miss him from porn."

• 55:03Speaker 06

  And it was so funny because I was like, I told him, and this is true, like, I really don't watch porn. I don't really like it. Generally, I don't, it's not, like, for me. But he's in this, like, really, he's only in, like, female-friendly porn that's like on this one website that's like made by women, like, you know, everything's like written, produced by women. And so it's like a very, very different, um, vibe. But anyway, I was like, "Oh, my God." I was like, "Can I hug you?" We like hugged. But, uh, I was like, I just gotta tell you, like, you are like the only actor, adult actor I've like ever looked up because I love, like, what sincere intimacy brings to your tears and stuff. And he was like, "Oh, my God." He's like, "As you can imagine, I don't get to get a lot of feedback about this."

• 55:48Speaker 06

  He was like, "That means so much to me." And I was like, "Oh, my God, of course." Like, honestly, thank you. Like, I think the industry could, like, really benefit from, like, taking the page out of your book and, like, doing more things like that. Like, it's really nice. Um, and he just was like, "That is so touching." Like, thanks so much.

• 56:07Speaker 00

  Um, drop the actor's name.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  I know. What were those bleeps? Come on.

• 56:13Speaker 00

  No, I'm like, looks like Pedro Pascal.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Intimate scenes that the rest of the porn industry should take a page out of his book. Drop the name.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  We'll do our own investigation.

• 56:27Speaker 00

  And I will be doing my own investigation. Um, I love literally this entire voice memo from top to bottom. I did get really excited when you were like, looks like Pedro Pascal. And I was like, are you gonna see Pedro Pascal in this bar? And then it wasn't, and I got really disappointed. But then, then I was brought right back up. This is incredible. I love this interaction for everyone. I love that he got honest feedback. He should get good feedback for his work.

• 56:58Speaker 01

  I know, like, what do performance evaluations look like in the porn industry? Like, I want people to be getting like, kudos, like, hey, like, really loved, yeah, that shoulder thing that you did, like, keep it up.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  Shoulder?

• 57:12Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  I was like, what could you be graded on?

• 57:16Speaker 00

  I'm like, I don't know if I've ever noticed shoulders.

• 57:24Speaker 00

  I love this gossip. This is beautiful. I love that she was so committed to recognizing him, that she kept the conversation going. Because if I went up to someone and was like, where do I know you from? And they weren't giving me anything back, I would be like, okay, well, time for me to fuck off and die.

• 57:42Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  And for her to be like, I'm gonna go through the last three months of things I've done to get to where I know you from is like, I really, really respect your confidence and self-esteem, because I don't have that.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  No, it's like, you persisted and you got there. Like, I was stressed. I was stressed in the middle where I was like, oh, no, like, well, yeah. But I, it's funny, I had like a, well, I didn't have, I've never had an experience like this. And now I'm like, I yearn to have an experience like this. But I was watching a play recently, and one of the actors, I was like, that person looks so familiar. And in this case, it's like, this person is an actor. So I was like, what else have I seen them in? Like, I was kind of distracted throughout the entire play, because she played this mayor. And every time she came on stage, I was like, I know that woman. And then after we got out of the play, like I looked on her IMDB. I was like looking and I was like,

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I don't like, I don't really know, like would I have remembered her from these things? Like maybe I saw her and then I found this news story that was like guest star on succession attacked by a pack of otters. It was her. It was her. It was her. And I recognized her from the people that shot because I was like, that's because when she was attacked by otters initially, everyone sent that to me and I was like, that's so crazy. Like, don't fuck with otters.

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Stabs, that story makes so much sense for you. Like the fact that everyone sent you the story of this woman being attacked by otters. Also, otters scare me. Otters and seals and also dolphins.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  All scary, all scary.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  Um, wait, was she, I'm assuming she was okay because she's.

• 59:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, sorry. She's sorry. She is okay. It happened like a while ago. She made it back to the stage. She was great in this play. I didn't love the play, but I loved her performance. She played a kooky mayor.

• 59:35Speaker 01

  And no marks visible from.

• 59:37Speaker 00

  Wow, from the otter attack. That's beautiful. I love that for her. Um,

• 59:44Speaker 00

  where do I recognize this woman from? She was attacked by otters.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's it. Classic.

• 59:51Speaker 00

  I think that's where you should start the next time. You're like, where do I know this person from? You're like, mm, they were attacked by emus.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Did you have any kind of mustelid encounter recently?

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  Oh, wait, what?

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Mustelid is like a group that the otters belong to. I believe. Please don't check me and I'm wrong, but I believe that's true.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  I mean, the thing is you could tell me literally anything and I would say that's true. But I send you photos of birds all the time and I'm just like, what is this? What's this? What's this caterpillar I saw on the street?

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  That was fun. I love to identify caterpillars. Any readers, send me caterpillars. I would love to identify them.

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, listeners, please send saps caterpillars. I mean, they probably, we have so many listeners from so many different places. Like, you could get some Australian caterpillars, which I'm It's Australia, that shit's crazy.

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  They're crazy down there. They're absolutely crazy.

• 1:00:47Speaker 00

  It's like the isolation has breded some wild things in the people and in the wildlife.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  There's that caterpillar in Australia and New Zealand that like, once it molts, because every caterpillar, as it gets bigger, it doesn't just grow, it like molts its old skin. After each molt, it eats the rest of its body, but it doesn't eat its head, and then it puts its old head on top of its current head. And so by the time it's like a really big caterpillar, it has this tapering tower of heads that just gets smaller and smaller. It's called the Gum Leaf Skeletonizer, becomes this beautiful brown moth, kind of the most iconic, well, I actually know, there are probably even more iconic caterpillars.

• 1:01:29Speaker 00

  You're like, actually, let me not speak out of turn.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  There's another caterpillar that scientists just discovered from Hawaii. Most caterpillars eat leaves, but this one like, basically preys on like dead insects, and then it takes their body parts and sticks them onto its body. So it's like covered in like the remnants of its dead prey, very metal.

• 1:01:48Speaker 00

  That's hardcore.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Caterpillars are doing crazy stuff, and more people should be respecting them.

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  I did not know that. I was just like, these bitches turn into butterflies. Like, that's crazy enough, if you think about it. I'm really trying to think of the logistics of eating every part of yourself but your head. Like, how does one do that?

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  We'll have to have them on.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Next subscriber episode.

• 1:02:17Speaker 00

  We will be hearing from the skeletonizer?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, the Gum Leaf Skeletonizer.

• 1:02:23Speaker 00

  That's also such a hardcore name.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Like, that sounds like a metal band.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:33Speaker 00

  Wow. Well, what's the gossip about?

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Oh, the porn star.

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  Iconic, iconic.

• 1:02:41Speaker 00

  Absolutely iconic. I don't know how we started talking about caterpillars, but I really

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Incredible story.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, truly, truly. Um, yeah, no, actually, though, do send me, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure we have the unbleeped version. I will find out who this adult, adult porn star is.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I need to know.

• 1:02:58Speaker 00

  Looking for his work. Um, thank you for your service and like, well and truly, both the caller in for alerting me to a new possible favorite and to this man for his work. I, I, I'm gonna pass on the feedback and assume that you're good at your job and say you deserve more kudos. You should get more kudos for that shoulder thing you're doing.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  I salute you both. Yeah, it's also funny to think about us trying to talk about this on a work, on a work podcast.

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, at this point, I'm like, anything goes here.

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  We did start off talking about how fuckable Jesus was, so it's only suitable that we are ending here.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Another kind of Jesus? I don't know.

• 1:03:43Speaker 00

  Lord and Savior, Messiah, sure. Why not? If a religion was to be formed about any, around anyone, I think I would say, yeah, sure, I'll see what he's,

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Why not this guy?

• 1:03:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'll, I'll go to a sermon.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  You'll endorse him on LinkedIn. Shoulder.

• 1:04:00Speaker 00

  Executive Director of Feminist Burning.

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  Sabs, thank you so much for joining us this month. This was a delight.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me on, Rachel. I had a blast.

• 1:04:14Speaker 00

  Yay.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  Thank you so much for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, that email is [email protected] or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at, at Normal Gossip. Normal Gossip is hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. Our lead producer is Ciara Spragley-Ricks. Our subscriber episodes are produced by Jay Toll-Viera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Su-John Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Defector's project editor is Justin Ellis.

• 1:05:04Speaker 00

  Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Alex Su-John Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor in chief. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Please remember, you did not hear this from me.