Norah Jones Is Playing Along
Original podcast
Legendary bassist Pino Palladino and producer, guitarist, and songwriter Blake Mills join Norah for a deep musical session.
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If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Nile Rodgers. This new series follows Nile as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along
with Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Hey, I'm Nora and this is Sarah Oda.
Hi, welcome to the show.
Oh, today we have a really fun show for you. We have Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Yes, the two deeply admired musicians who are known for shaping a whole range of records. Blake is a singer-songwriter, guitarist, producer. He's known for his inventive playing and all his studio work. And Pino is a legendary bassist, whose sound is, makes him one of the most sought-after bass players in the world.
Yeah, they've both played on so many classic records. And it was a thrill to play with them. It was also super hard. This was the hardest music I think I've been thrown.
Yeah, I feel like you had some homework.
Yeah, but it was so fun. I love these songs, they're beautiful. And we caught them when they were on tour, playing songs from their new album, "That Wasn't a Dream." And we played some songs from this album. It was really fun.
Yeah, and you talk a little bit about each of their musical backgrounds and their creative processes, and also how they kind of came together, which is really cool.
They also brought the most gear of anyone, because they were on tour and they had all their gear. And they all, they both have, especially Blake, he has interesting sounds and specific gear that he uses and weird guitars. It's a real good guitar.
That's his magic superpower.
Yeah, he's got some cool stuff.
Yeah, and it's fun to have the rare trio in this room, in our studio, so.
Yeah, it was really fun. Please enjoy the episode with Blake Mills and Pino Palladino.
Well, that is very yummy. Really, really pretty, too.
It feels so good. It feels so good to play music.
It does, doesn't it?
As corny as that is.
Yeah, that's why I do this. That's why I play music. Yeah. What are you playing, Blake? What is this contraption here?
This is a guitar built by a luthier named Rolf Spüler. He's no longer with us. But he was an instrument maker. And as I understand it, his goal with this was to try to make like the best sounding acoustic, plugged-in acoustic guitar.
Oh, wow.
Like a... Something that you could use on a stage and like turn up and it still sounds believable.
Yeah.
I mean, the way that I'm using it with this music, you're not really hearing much of the guitar itself. It's sort of like the, you know, the modeling things. But yeah, as a... Just plugging it straight into a DI, it's a really remarkable sounding instrument.
Really?
So it has an acoustic sound?
Totally.
Is there a way to show us? Or do you have to unplug stuff?
No, I mean, there is a way.
I'm just curious.
There is a way.
I mean, there's not much sound comes from the body, though, right?
There's a little chamber in there.
Which is why it sounds good.
But the way that it's...
Amped up, right?
I think the way that it's built is definitely... Let's see, what do I have here?
It's such a beautiful instrument.
It's so pretty.
Yeah. So great to play.
So this is like... So you have like a piezo.
That you can blend with a microphone. So there's definitely a mic in there.
So there's a mic in there. So you can kind of do anything with it?
Pretty much.
Yeah. Are you allergic to DI acoustic sounds?
No, not... It's not as hard for me because I don't play with a pick.
Gotcha.
That often.
Yeah, that makes it worse.
So like the PIZO pickup is something I find really useful. But I think I know what you're talking about. And when I'm alongside it, it's pretty hard. Yeah, that kind of...
It's hard to hear.
Yeah, it's like you're inside of the bad dream of what a guitar sounds like.
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to get a good one, you know? So that's a good...
It's a good solution. They're rare, you know? So it's not a good solution for very many people. But yeah, it's a special instrument. I bought this from one of our cohorts, Sam Gendel, who's a saxophone player but is very on the up and up when it comes to cool equipment. And I think the fact that we're showing up with like Boss GP10s and Hexaphonic pickups, that's definitely his impact on us.
Yeah, on us.
Yeah, sometimes you get like gear envy, right? When we're playing with Sam and he rolls on to the plane, he's got his entire setup. It's just like this little like, you know, Japanese...
Penny whistle.
Yeah, something.
He's just one of those guys who has everything.
It's like he's got his entire setup is in a Trapper Keeper.
That's so funny.
And we're cruising around with like guitar lockers and just thinking, you know, next time it's gonna be no gear.
So this is actually kind of a downsizing for us. You know, yeah, we're rolling into this with sort of a fussy setup. But for us, it's great not traveling with like pedalboards and things like that.
So it's still less.
Yeah. Less for me, more for you.
Yeah, actually a little more for me, yeah.
I normally just stick to one instrument if I can, two, but usually just bass, so.
Yeah, but you're playing guitar.
I'm playing a bit of guitar too, so yeah, it's definitely a little bit different.
But that's so fun for you, right?
I think I start... Yeah, absolutely, I love it. And I think I've started to make guitar faces too.
I don't know how to explain that.
Isn't it weird?
Are you telling a story like you're talking with the...
I don't know, I'm just less in control of my face when I'm playing guitar.
Yeah, I suppose it's convenient that you wear hats so often.
There you go, yeah, hats and glasses.
I'm catching up.
I was catching you.
How's your guitar face like?
I look petrified, I think is my... That's my style, it's just like...
It's a good look.
Deer in headlights, is what I'm going for.
It's hard to control that.
Yeah, I just let it, you know, the face makes me. I don't make the face.
Good.
That's how it...
Well, that's pretty deep.
Just don't make the face.
Yeah, no, the face, if the face makes you first, shame on you.
That's right.
I think, I think part of, uh, part of what gets me out of hot water as a guitarist is that I sit so often when I play.
Oh, do you?
I think it neutralizes a lot of that weird energy that makes, makes you do bad things as a guitarist.
Why do you sit?
Well, partly for that reason, partly because, um, I don't know, I find that the, the ergonomics of it are, are a lot easier, um, when you, you've got the ability to balance it and maneuver it and, you know, you can, sometimes depending on the tuning, like the stretch is kind of unusual. And when I do that with a strap, it's just, it's inevitably sitting in this way that I've gotta do something that's more painful.
It almost feels like you're unanchored, yeah.
Yeah, totally, and unless the strap is like, you know, up here.
Then you'd be one of those really high guitar... I'm like that, I play really high guitar.
Yeah, where it's just like in your armpit?
Basically, and I'm in a band where we switch guitars because we're too lazy to bring a ton of gear, we just share the guitar and they always have to make it longer. Yeah, but I also sit very high at the piano, so...
Do you? Did you develop that out of like habit? Was it like one time you sat where you learned it was on a
I think I'm just short and I have a high waist. So I'm just, I don't have a lot of body.
And I remember I used to do gigs in New York and I'd always ask for the phone book to sit on. And then they stopped making phone books. And but it's okay. I got a piano tech at that time.
That's great.
But yeah, I sit weirdly high.
So we were talking the other night about organists who play the pedals.
Oh, yeah.
And not only how incredible that is to watch somebody do and hear somebody do, but also thinking about the ergonomics of that where like you're constantly doing like leg lifts.
Sitting down and you no longer have presumably, I mean, I don't know how to do it. But from what I can tell, like you don't have that stability.
You're right.
You know, you're tapping your foot against the floor.
And you're not wearing shoes. They're usually in socks.
Right?
And, ooh, yeah, that would be weird.
Yeah. It's, you might have the body type for it, though. Like you've got, you've got the legs.
I've got my line legs.
Yeah, the posture, you know, situated.
I don't know if I have it in me.
We gotta get you a set of pedals down here.
We have a set of pedals.
Let's fire them up.
Yeah, no, we have them all.
Let's get you up there.
Yeah, my husband's a really good organ player. He can't like go fast on the pedals, but he's, yeah.
It's, it's like watching somebody, you know, walk on a hammock or something.
Yeah, it's sort of getting lost, right? It's not really very common.
It's just insane.
Well, he was telling me that a lot of people, like, didn't Jimmy Smith do his left hand? He didn't do pedals, right?
Yeah, I think maybe sometimes it's a combination too.
Yeah, combination. Yeah, it depends on how fast it gets, I guess.
A little cheating in there for sure.
But what a great sound. I love the sound.
Who cares? He was amazing.
Yeah, I try and make that sound.
I know. Organ is so cool. Yeah. How long have you guys known each other?
Since
About ten years or something?
Oh, that's it?
Yeah, 2016, I think.
Okay.
Maybe fifteen.
How did you meet?
We met because Blake was producing an album.
And invited me and Chris Dave to be the rhythm section.
Wow. That's a great idea, Blake.
I was really happy.
I had to reach too far for that one.
What album was that?
It was John Legend's Darkness and Light.
Oh, yeah. That's beautiful.
And, yeah, one of the ideas was to just have a live rhythm section for all the songs. And that was the first project I was a part of that I had a chance to work with these guys on.
That's so great.
And during that record, Pino mentioned that he'd been working on some of his own material. And we had a promotional show, I think here in New York or in Brooklyn.
Yeah, yeah, I think it was.
And after the show, Pino took me to a studio and played me one of the songs that he had been working on. And it was phenomenal. And it was, I played a few things on it. And then for about six months, was just texting him nonstop, like, you know, when can I hear that again?
And, you know, how did that turn out?
And at one point, you were in LA, we opened up the song again. And we started to explore, you know, other places that it could go and arrangement ideas. And after doing that with a few more
compositions of Pino's, we realized that we were working on something that felt like an album.
Yeah, and also something that was, to me, felt like a collaboration. Because at first, it didn't kind of start off that way. But it was, it became obvious pretty quickly.
This should be collaboration.
Yeah, so.
And is this your third album together?
Second.
Second?
Second, yeah.
Okay. Wow. And it's so different. It's so different from anything, I feel like.
Well, that's lovely.
It's so.
Sonically rich and weird and beautiful and I don't know. It just must be so fun because you both play with like so many people. To just have this weird, special thing that you're doing together.
Yeah, it's great. We're having a blast.
I think we were kind of tickled by the unusual choices in music. Not just our own, but just in general as listeners. That's what we gravitate towards, some balance, you know, presence of that alongside things that are maybe more traditionally rewarding. And that's a cool, that's a cool line to try to follow through different projects. I think that's relevant to, no matter what kind of music it is, that's a relevant recipe, I think, for success.
Yeah, I think so. Just do what moves you.
Yeah, if that's what floats your boat. A little weirdness strikes your fancy.
If it's out of the norm and it moves you, then follow it.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Thinking about how many things were out of the norm before they became the norm.
That's true.
Too, like, you know, accessible music in so many cases wasn't at one point when it came out.
It was unusual and only through its sort of popularity or... Like, hearing non-musicians sing Gary Rafferty, "Right Down the Line", sing all those modulations at karaoke.
Yeah, but they know them.
They know them.
That's crazy.
And how many modulations happen in Red Hot Chili Peppers hits?
That's right. I never thought about that.
It's, yes, totally strange music.
Very strange.
On paper, when you start investigating.
It's always why I liked it.
Yeah. I mean, so with this program, you're doing a lot of... Unfamiliar music.
Yeah, I mean, part of the fun part is doing things that are out of my own wheelhouse. And sometimes people come in with songs that I can learn very quickly. And then today, for instance, I was like cramming and also nervous, but also I know you're safe people and it's gonna be okay. Once we're in the room, it always feels like we're making music and it's not a big deal. But I was like, what is that chord? You know? But so it's really good for me, though. You know, I think learning other material always informs something down the line that you're gonna spit out, right? So.
Sort of opens you up to.
Yeah. It's not why I decided to do this, but it's been the upside. It's been one of the many upsides to it. Yeah, just having to kind of sharpen my tools a little, which is good for me at this point.
Good for all of us.
Yeah. Move it or lose it. Yeah, it's like a nice way to play music without traveling. You know?
Yeah, that's important.
Even though I love to travel, it's like nice to cut back a little.
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If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before
the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Yeah, we're with you.
Thanks for coming, and you have a show tonight, so I don't want to-
We have a show. We have a show tomorrow. We have a show tomorrow.
Yeah. We're happy to be here.
Oh, good. You're not, like, going straight to soundcheck?
No.
Great. You can't get rid of this that quickly. That's great.
We don't have to play the next one at double speed.
Right.
After all.
Good, because I don't think I can play it. I did a, um, I did something with Brandy Younger last week, and the harp, harp, harp player, and she had a couple tunes that I was like, wait a second. And then she, she's like, I had charts, I could have sent you. And I was like, I didn't even think to ask that.
But it's probably better for me to learn it on my own. You know what I mean?
I, I didn't know what your background was and if having a chart would, would be helpful or not.
I don't read-
You don't?
No, I mean, I can, it's sort of like reading a book upside down or something.
Like, I can kind of, I can, I'll meet you there, but I don't, um, I certainly can't sight read. I can read a chord chart.
But a lot of our music doesn't have chords.
Well, that's why, yeah, that's why I was, it's funny, you sent me this YouTube of the next song we're gonna play.
And the guy had written a chart, which is great, but I don't know if you watched it. He just was close up on each measure as the song went on. And I was so frustrated.
I couldn't just take a picture of it. But thank God he did it. Anyway, I'm thankful for it, but it was pretty funny.
He's a friend. Yeah, I should have seen it if there was like a PDF or something.
No, it's all good. It was funny. I was like, that makes sense. Otherwise, nobody's gonna watch the whole video. They're just gonna take a screenshot. I get it.
But it was funny.
I texted with him this morning and he lives in Germany and he's playing that song.
That's so cool.
In like some performances, I think, right now, like as a solo piano piece.
Oh, that's beautiful. Well, I love this song. Let's dive in.
Violets in the sky Birds are flying high Every day is grey Clouds just float on by
I look for your face You are not a fool I can't see what you do What is wrong with you?
Look into my eyes Tell me what you see
Tell me who to be What is wrong with me What is wrong with you and me
We've all been doing this long enough to know when you feel really good about something, and also the specific things you want to catch along the way, right?
Something that helped me recently was thinking about it like an abstract painting. As long as the shape is there and you can hear what's going on, Phil know it's a song. It's like this thing I've been doing to stop myself from overdoing it. It's funny.
That makes a lot of sense.
Well, the essence of the song is there.
It's the essence of.
All the sort of ingredients that you want to put.
The emotion.
Yeah. I work with Leon Michaels. Do you know him? He's a producer. He also has a band called L Michaels Affair.
But he, we work a lot digitally. But he always erases stuff. I'm like, wait, I had it like seven, seven vocals ago. He's like, well, that's gone. I'm like, wait a second. But he, it's almost like he pretends that he's on tape and he'll, so it keeps him from having too much stuff. It's pretty great.
That is great.
I think it does, you know, especially if, if it becomes part of the conversation and part of the process too. Are you sure you want to do another one? Because
it means we're gonna lose. Did you all listen?
Yeah. No, he doesn't do that.
That's a cool part of tape.
It's not an if or then. It's just.
You listen more.
Exactly.
You listen back more. Like with digitally, you just kind of, you wait to do all that later.
Yeah, I, I question too whether we, as the, the, the, the party responsible for the making of the, the thing, if we are always the best arbiters of, of what is important to capture, you know, like what's important to achieve. Because our perspectives are considering so many things about the music that
in many cases, aren't going to be part of the listener's experience or, or.
Yes.
Their connotation.
But I think we're the creators. So I think it's, I think we can do what we want.
We can do, we can absolutely do anything we want.
The important stuff that we think is important.
You know?
I think so.
But I know what you mean.
Like, for example, you know, how, have you ever been in that situation where you're, you're working on a, a mix of a vocal blend? And that part of your intention is, I want to make sure that the melody, the thing I wrote and think of as the melody. You know, hierarchically is placed and that the subservient harmonies are understood as such.
And so you, you know, you finesse this blend of this thing, right? And at the end of the day, what people are gonna hear and latch on to, it's like, what is the melody of Sweet Judy Blue Eyes?
Who's singing the melody on those Crosby, Stills & Nash records? Like, a lot of times Graham Nash's part is the thing that pops back into your head.
You know, this sort of like-
The high.
Stratosphere. Yeah, the high. So, so in trying to control the experience somebody's gonna have in listening to it, even if you have all the money and time in the world to get it perfect.
You don't have that control ultimately. Like, it's, it's its own thing. And that's the, that's sort of, that's my version of letting go in the studio, like what you're describing with the painting. It's just reminding myself that like, it's, I'm gonna hear this differently in two years as well.
The time, the time thing is really key, I think. Taking space and then coming back to listen to something.
Hmm.
And then realizing, oh, that's so cool. I can't remember what happened with that.
Yeah, what was my note?
You know, it's like, wait, what take was that? I don't remember.
So it sounds fresh to you.
Yeah, exactly.
But, I mean, don't you both think, though, that playing and listening while you're playing is very different to going in and listening to what you've just performed?
Completely.
It's, if we could do both perfectly, then it would be easy.
I know. And because you're always-
It always sounds so different.
You're focused on like, getting it right also. I mean, the best is when you can forget about what you're doing and just be in it, of course, but when you're recording, usually you're learning a song or you're trying to get the right part and you're kinda thinking a little.
Well, there's a responsibility-
Yeah, for the music.
These things also have a point of view, too.
You do your performance, but then you're going back and you're listening to a, you know, a translation of it.
In, in, in the recording.
So, yeah, it has to- I think the painting analogy or some sort of a two dimensional framework is a really good one for recorded music because it does end up coming back at you out of like, you know, two speakers or
Yeah, as one kind of weird pot.
Yeah, it's like a version of reality.
It's not like, you know, it's not what's happening in the room, no matter how good the recording is. It's just a different medium.
But it's fun. It's cool when you can, you know, when you're standing in front of a painting that looks lifelike or even, you know, something more than lifelike.
Yeah, you want not lifelike. I don't as a art viewer. I like a painting that's sort of alluding to something. But of course, music is different. But yeah, anyway, it's interesting. I don't know. You've played on so many records, both of you. I mean, you must have gone through so many different types of processes with people. Or do you feel like you're usually drawn to similar? Like same? Like goes with like? Or do you feel like you've just been, you've seen a lot of really different ways of working?
Yeah, I feel that way.
Yeah, that for sure. Yeah, for sure.
I think you just have to adapt.
Exactly. And it's not that one's better or that one gets a better result necessarily.
It's really just finding a way of putting what you have into the music, onto the music so that, you know, it's right. It feels good.
So many different ways of getting that.
I know. Yeah.
I don't know the secret.
I know. Well, that's the elusive magic dust, right? Yeah, it's like.
Think I've had, I've been in situations where I've thought like is, you know, are we making this harder for ourselves than we need to?
And in many cases, I think we probably are. Like, it doesn't have to be
as difficult as it sometimes feels. But it also doesn't have to not be work, hard work. Like, you know, this idea that you go in and, you know, when you're making a record, the most important thing is that we just all go in and have fun is like, that is the most important thing to some people.
But you have to go past that.
Yes, it's not what it's all about. It's like, at the end of the day, I think you still have a responsibility to yourself to try to make the best record you can make.
That, that should take a little bit of heavy lifting at times.
Definitely. It means you have to
do another one all the time.
Yeah, they kind of, they set up, they set themselves up a little bit, don't they? Like, once you
Once you've finished, you finish the album, then you kind of go like, all right, I don't ever want to do any of that again. Next time, you know, next time we're going to Barbados.
We're just gonna do it in one day.
Yeah. Well, you've done those before and they can be fun.
They can.
It just depends.
You grew up in Wales?
Yeah?
And when did you come to the States? Or did you start touring first?
Yeah, I first toured in the States with Jules Holland, actually.
I was in band with Jules.
That was like 1981, I think.
And toured over here with Paul Young in the eighties too. And then started doing studio work. And gradually ended up spending a lot of time in America. And eventually in 2016, I moved out here permanently.
In 2016?
Only? Okay, yeah. Wow. You're like, all right, I'll finally take the plunge.
2016, funny year to move here.
Yeah, if I think about it.
That's cool. Do you remember the first record you played on?
Wow. I mean, I remember the first sessions.
But I don't know what records they were now.
But you did a lot of session work.
Early on.
Yeah, I mean, we did an album with Jules.
And then I went on to play for Gary Newman. They were some of the first sessions that sort of, where people heard me playing on records. And it sort of, it was a sound at the time, a sort of fretless sound on that electronic music.
Was catching people's ears, I think. And so that led to where I am today, really.
Wow. Yeah, I was gonna ask how that happened.
Yeah, it's long. It's really long.
It's so unique, though, you know? It's so you.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, it's beautiful. Can you tell me about the bass?
Yeah, this is, um, it's made by Rob Allen.
It's like a hollow body. It's got a piezo pickup on it. Or is it piezopickup?
I don't know. No one knows.
Somebody tell me.
Yeah, and it's got a, it's tuned like a bass, except it's got a high C on it.
Oh, that's nice.
So for that piece we just played, it just, it just means I can get the notes I want higher up easier without stretching all over the place. Yeah, and I put this mute on it, which is made by Nordstrand, and it just sort of mutes the strings a little bit.
I love a mute.
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, it's the best. Yeah.
And I'm really just trying to get that Pizzicato sound out of it for that piece.
Thank you.
And what is this, Blake?
This is crazy. What are you playing here? It's like a fretless guitar.
Yeah, it's a fretless, fretless baritone guitar with a Sisaniac pickup in it.
So that's just like a, if anybody that knows what an EBO is, it's just that for all the strings all the time.
Oh, cool. Okay, I actually know what an EBO is.
Surprised at myself.
Yeah, EBO has been around for, I think since the 70s, there might be some that came out, some version of the EBO in the 70s.
It's like an electronic slide, kinda?
Maybe 80s. It's more like for the picking hand.
So you hold it against the string.
Oh, I think I thought it was for the other hand.
And it activates the string.
It's a lot like having a bow.
You know, for a guitarist, at least.
EBO.
Does that make sense?
There you go, yeah. Yeah, so with the Sustaniak, you know, it's just kind of, it's that concept, basically, but applied across all the strings. And so you can get a lot of interesting sort of swelling into a note type sounds with it. And I've had it for five or six years or so, and I've used it for so many different things.
Records, yeah, different sounds.
Well, that's what's so interesting about it, because when I was listening to your record, the sounds are just so different. I mean, it doesn't even sound like a guitar. It sounds like, I don't know what it sounds like.
A lot of times...
But it sounds earthy. It doesn't sound electronic.
Right. Yeah, I mean, there's some of that in there, but it's interesting having, now once the record is out and getting feedback on what something sound like to other people, yeah, a lot of the things that sound like woodwinds or on guitar and the things that Sam, our saxophone player, is doing on the record, that's, he's playing a wind controller and he's doing, you know, harp and synthesizers and it's just like everybody's sort of modular in their roles, you know, and how they play their instruments. And we, we probably all share a little of the sensibility of being frustrated with
the limitations of what we play can do instrument-wise. I know, like...
I covet certain voicings that you can play on that, that you just can't get without some, you know, without going into carpal tunnel territory.
Yeah, or an alternate tuning.
Exactly, yeah. So there's just always things that, once you become familiar with your instrument, you recognize that it can't do easily and you sort of catalog that. And some of those, I think we've been on a mission as musicians to try to coax a little bit out of our instruments, because that's a lot easier than actually learning how to play piano.
Yeah, no. And it's also fun because you're changing it in a way that is different from, you know, a typical guitar sound.
Do you ever do prepared piano stuff?
I like putting tape on it, yeah. I like that. I've done that a little bit.
Yeah, it's fun.
I haven't done it live. It would be fun live.
But, you know, I'm like, wait a second. Get the tape out.
How's everybody doing tonight?
I'm sure you can get a contraption. I'm just kind of lazy in that way, but...
Just take like, you know, your kid's old toy band and just dump it in there.
Just have a beater, yeah.
I'm sure the house piano will love that.
I should do that to that piano there, that little tom thum guy. That would sound good that way.
Yeah, but it's a ton.
Yeah. Actually, my favorite piano in my house up there has a mute.
But it's built in. It's just that kind of... And we just love the mute.
It's the prettiest.
Quite a sound.
It's fun to sing against that.
Easier, way easier, yeah. It's nice, a nice house piano.
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the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever play Indian music? Because of the fretless nature, I'm just, we were talking about, um...
Yeah, Alim Khan. Yeah, I mean, I would say there are times where I'm hearing Indian music and I'm trying, you know, to sort of like, you know, visit that, that place a little bit. I was doing that a lot more, I think, when I was playing slide guitar. And on fretless...
On this instrument, it feels like the sound I'm hearing in my head right now is a little bit more like a woodwind player.
That's what it sounds like to me.
Yeah, something about the vibrato on this, like the pressure sensitivity to it gives this like, kind of like wind.
There's a lot of air in it.
Mm-hmm.
I love it, it's beautiful.
Thanks, it's so fun to play. It's really been, it's just been a treat. How much of our set is on this guitar each night is really, it's growing.
It's great. Toys. You're playing with toys. You're playing with awesome toys.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, when are you gonna put the little pitch wheel on this?
Oh my gosh.
This old gal, so you have the little.
That'd be fun. You know, in high school, I went to a performing arts high school in Dallas and I had a synthesis class. So, we played synthesizers in class and all the guys in my class were incredible, really amazing musicians and they all knew how to do the pitch bend. And I remember they were teaching me how to do it and I could not, I think he took the part away from me actually because I couldn't do it right.
A pitch bend on a synthesizer?
Yeah, like a DX7, you know, and some of the guys were playing a Moog, Moog, Moog, Mini Moog. Do you say Moog or Moog?
I think it's Moog.
It's Moog?
It is Moog.
Okay, now I know.
That one, that one we've proven.
Yeah, that's a, that's a cool, that's like, yeah, it's sort of the keyboardist's way of sounding guitar-ish.
Yeah, it's like our toy.
Yeah, the whammy bar.
Yeah, I'm not very good at, I'm not very patient with gear and trying to fiddle with sounds, but if it's there and I can play it, it's.
You can't not.
It's so fun.
You can't let it go.
I mean, I can't, I can't stop.
Yeah, it's pretty fun. Maybe someday, on tour with it.
I think like we're exploring this stuff and having so much fun with it and I can also see us, you know, a year from now, just like. Let's leave that shit at home.
Plug straight in, you know.
It does, kind of like records.
One sets the other up.
The pendulum swings and
when you're tired of it, well, it doesn't matter because you can play either way, right?
Hopefully.
Some nights.
Yeah, I like to think so.
Yeah, I definitely think so. You've been doing sessions since you were a kid, right?
Yeah, I've been doing sessions since I was, well, I guess in, yeah, my late teens.
That's wild, yeah.
Sessions in L.A.
I think part of that is having grown up in Los Angeles.
Being where a lot of recording sessions are happening and got thrown into it pretty early on.
But I love, I still love the the framework of working on such a variety of music over the course of a year. It's really different from being a recording artist where you have a record cycle, you know, and you're
you've got an album that you're supporting and you can be playing a group of songs for a year or two. As a session player or producer, to be working for anywhere from a day to a few months on such a body of work and then the slate is cleared and you you go somewhere else entirely. That was really good for me, you know, that kind of variety. I still enjoy that aspect of spending most of my time in the studio.
Yeah, I mean, it's a special place to be. You guys have the sweet spots where you get to dip in and then do your own thing and dip in.
Absolutely.
More a privilege.
It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's an honor to have you here.
Oh.
Such a pleasure.
Thank you so much. Yeah, I love you guys. We got to play together on that record forever ago.
God, that was like 2000, Little Broken Hearts, it was like 2010, maybe.
I want to say.
And remind me what studio we were working?
I can't remember what it was called.
I couldn't either.
I've never been there again. It was like a big warehouse.
It didn't feel.
Like a, like a proper studio.
Yeah. I could check, I could check the credits.
It was a long, yeah, it was a long, long time ago.
Felt, felt like a former life.
Well, it was 15 years ago. I guess, I guess it was.
Some things, some things that happened 15 years ago don't feel as long ago as others.
I know.
I know what you mean.
But yeah, that was cool.
It was like two days, but three days, it was fun.
Yeah, it was a cool record.
Now we gotta make a record together, Pino.
Yeah, that's right. Let's go.
Let's do it.
Let's go. Quit playing around.
So I, I like to usually end these episodes with a, like a cover or just something kind of a wild card. And I love it when someone else suggests something that I've never heard of. And you have suggested this incredible song that I'm really excited about.
I'm so glad.
I'm excited too. I, well, I, I threw it out there because John Martin is someone who's been coming up recently. As we've been doing some press for our, our record.
The question of like, you know, what are your, what are you listening to right now? And so that comes up a lot.
And, and one of the, one of our sort of, I think our common influences or artists that we love is, were the records by this guy, John Martin.
I, I, this is my first time hearing him.
Yeah, he's.
Or maybe it's not, but I, you know.
"May You Never," have you ever heard that song?
I don't know.
Yeah, "May You," a song called "May You Never."
Maybe I've heard that one.
Yeah, that was kind of his hit.
Yeah. Well, I love this one you sent. It's just such a good song.
You know, when you put something on and it's just like, ugh.
The lyrics and everything just hits you.
It hits all the right spots.
Yeah, it hits.
So we've never played this before. It's gonna be.
It was a song, even though I'm a huge fan, I didn't know that song actually.
It's from, yeah, a little bit of a later record.
It's not in the prime of, of the stuff that he's known for, but it's this really. It's a, it's a great record and he made it. I think I came to know it because Phil Brown, the engineer, was the engineer on this album. Phil had done the final two Talk Talk records and the Mark Hollis record. Oh, cool. And those were really big for me around the pandemic era, you know, that time. And I thought they were just so beautifully recorded that I picked up Phil's book and learned about a bunch of stuff that he did. And one of them was this John Martin record. That's how I came.
I think that's kind of how I came into John Martin, really appreciating his albums, then went back from there.
Some of us live like princes and some of us live like queens.
Most of us live just like me. We don't know what it means
to take our place in the world, to make our peace in the world, to make our way in one world, to have our say in one world.
If you ain't got two words to say, then I can't.
Talk to you.
No use crying, there's been no crying. I say it's just the way the wind blows. Just the name of the game. The way of the world, the way of the world. It's just the way of the world.
Just the way of the world.
So cold and lonely, cold and lonely, cold and lonely. It's so cold and lonely world.
Cold and lonely, cold and lonely.
It's just a cold and lonely world.
Some of us live like princes And some of us live like queens
Most of us just live like me And we don't know what it means To make our place in the world
Take our place in one world Make our life in one world Make our way in one world
Very sick. That was fun. It's very sick. It's a fun song. Even the sour tunings. Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's Small Business Line of Credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat.
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See website for details.
If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.
Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is really fun.
Yeah, it is.
Thank you for coming.
Pleasure. Thank you for asking.
Blake and Pino, I am honored to have you here.
Likewise.
More, please. Thank you, more please.
It was lovely being here.
I'm honored to have you here in your house as well.
Yeah, we're honored to have you at your place.
Thank you for bringing all your stuff, your cool toys.
Hey, we just happen to have it in the van.
Lucky me.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, can't wait to listen back to some of the stuff that we did.
Yeah, it's gonna be cool.
And do more.
We'll come back with one-string instruments next time.
That's fine, whatever you want. We'll make music out of anything.
The three of us will sit at a long piano bench and play one piano.
Play one. Yay, we did it.
Nice one.
Thank you, guys.
Pleasure.
Thanks, you guys.
Aw, yay, that was fun.
That was amazing.
Yeah, they're so awesome.
They make it seem so easy.
Well, and I was so nervous about this one because the music was so hard and they're such heavyweights, you know?
But...
But they're just easy to hang with and sweet.
So easy.
Yeah, it was great. I loved this episode. I love doing these. This is a fun show to do. I just have to say that.
Yeah, I get to meet and hang. I mean, I've met both of them before. I've worked with Blake before.
But to just... See people and do this. It's fun.
I think they have fun, too.
I think they do.
If you want to know what songs we played on this episode, the first song was called Contour, and it was from the album That Wasn't a Dream, written by Blake Mills and Pino Palladino and Chris Weisman. That album was released in 2025. The second song was called What Is Wrong With You? Same album and written by Blake and Pino. And the third song we did was a John Martin song from his album One World, which was released in 1977. And the song was called One World. That was a fun one to learn. Special thanks to Blake Mills and Pino Palladino for joining us today. And we'll be back next week with Mike Campbell. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli, mixed by Jamie Landry, audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler, artwork by Eliza Frye, photography by Sherwin Laniz, produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda, executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtog, marketing lead Allison Cantor-Graeber. Thanks for joining us.
If you love music and great artist interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed, and this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Orderlymeds.com to learn about GLP-1 treatment options. With a convenient virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical providers from home and see if treatment may be appropriate for you. Visit orderlymeds.com today. That's orderlymeds.com. Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details. With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans.
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